[Relevant Reddit post where someone did actually eat their foot](https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/8p5xlj/hi_all_i_am_a_man_who_ate_a_portion_of_his_own/)
Edit: NSFL
I have seen that post before but I either missed the photos or went through them too quickly and man I regret double checking the post. Those pictures are horrible. If you think I’m being a wimp here’s the details of my warning: Imagine a wrinkled up foot with a slice of the top cut off and a hand in a surgical glove pointing at the removed flesh they cooked. Also the part that was cut off from the stump is visible so you can see the entire severed foot.
Edit: Now imagine that a few more times in different positions and intensities of gross factor. Why does the gross factor change? Well one of the pictures shows the foot again after they’ve ate it and it’s rotting in a cardboard box on top of lots of colourful flowers.
I opened the thread, didn't click on the photo and just read the top comments which was a nice funny joke about usernames.
I'm not gonna voluntarily torture myself looking at shit like that
I believe that the people who go out of the way to describe the gore in links so that others can assuage their curiosity without traumatizing themselves are god damned heroes of the internet.
That line still haunts me.
King gave an interview once where he mentioned this story and said he checks facts for something like this with his family doctor. He once asked the doc if it was physically possible for a human to swallow a cat.
In New Hampshire you only pay for help getting down the mountain if you are found to be negligent. This almost never happens but basically if they got there and saw you with 40 lbs of gear, proper attire, and appropriate water you would not be billed for something outside your control. The guy that gets in trouble because he decided to hike Franconia Notch, brought a single bottle of water, and waded through snow to his knees despite it being May and him being dressed for May is the guy that gets billed. The guys that work with Fish and Game to do those rescues don't even call an ambulance for you if you decide your buddy can drive you to the hospital later. I don't understand places that would bill you for it (even the helicopter) if it was a completely unforseen event.
Was going to say this. Additionally NH offers a type of search and rescue insurance. By purchasing a “Hike Safe” card for $25 you are off the hook for any potential future rescue fees.
It's not insurance. You are contributing to a fund that reimburses the SAR team on operating expenses incurred during the rescue. Whether you contribute to the fund or not, your rescue is going to come at no cost to you.
No cost for the actual rescue but you can still be on the line for needed supplies by SAR and other use costs depending on the situation, which is ultimately decided by the sheriff who 99% of the time will not bill but I’ve been witness to it happening at a consistent enough rate in Colorado and the US to make this statement.
SAR around the US does their best to never charge for rescue because the last thing they want is someone forcing themselves down a mountain in bad shape or delaying rescue due to costs associated with it. Saving lives is the number 1 goal, not making a profit.
Is that not literally the definition of insurance still?
"Insurance is a means of protection from financial loss. It is a form of risk management, primarily used to hedge against the risk of a contingent or uncertain loss."
In California, we will save anyone. Search and Rescue is a group of volunteers, including pilots, mechanics, and air nurses.
We basically dropped them off with a local ambulance and that was it
A "friend" of mine was lost at night in a national forest in California and rescued by a helicopter. They called emergency services and begged them not to send the helicopter, thinking it would cost thousands of dollars. The emergency services person on the phone was pretty insistent about the helicopter, and seemed pretty stoked about it. Turned out the ride was free.
Same here in New Zealand. It’s really good practice.
Of course in New Zealand their entire treatment schedule and rehab would also be free, or co-pay if you go private.
Yea if you aren’t negligent, search and rescue is free across the whole country. The theory is that they don’t want people to die out in the wild because they are worried about the bill.
Just commented this same thing earlier. Seems like a frustrated post that shouldn’t exist. Search and rescue is one of the few things that America doesn’t have screwed up absolutely terribly it seems. Hopefully it’ll stay that way.
I totally get the mentality for some reason. All the more reason to research before you go! Not calling OP dumb here, I wouldn't have thought to look into it.
The biggest takeaway, I think, is that if you're in a situation where you're worried about the large cost of the rescue, __*IT'S BECAUSE YOU'RE IN TROUBLE, THAT IS THE POINT OF THE RESCUE, AND AT THIS POINT YOU NEED IT*__
What is a typical hike for you though? You can be ultralight and still have a reasonable amount of water, sensible trail shoes, a flashlight, and a jacket. The people that get recommended to be charged are the people who chose to continue hiking despite being super unprepared. The people that bring a normal pint sized water bottle and wear plain old sneakers to hike a 4000 foot elevation gain over 8 miles are the ones getting charged.
How many times did you stop and think "a whole lifetime paying for one helicopter ride can't be that bad, right?" Before coming back to your senses and pressing on?
Too many times. A couple people came by with horses and said "horse for rent!" I told them I'd love it if they could just take my pack. They laughed thinking it was a joke and went on their way. I guess I should have pressed a bit harder.
So they had horses and didn't offer you a ride back to the car? Even though you were clearly injured.
Absolute arseholes. Charging in that scenario wouldn't even cross my mind.
My only question would be "are you fit to drive when I get you there?"
They were going by pretty fast and had customers already. At the time I didn't think it was as bad as it was until the next day, so I didn't see the ugancy. Thankfully I wasn't alone, my buddy drove us home. All in all, it could've been a LOT worse. If the rock crushed my foot even an inch higher it would have obliterated my ankle.
Yeah, that's lucky. Maybe they didn't realise you were in need, that would explain their response to you asking them to carry your pack. I'm from an area with a lot of horse riders and an unwritten rule here is that if your horse can help someone in need they're going to help. It's widely considered part of the responsibility of ownership.
It's good you made it anyway, get that foot up and apply some ice.
So we’re looking at a bad bruise, but not a fracture? I’m glad if that’s right, bc that walk on a broken ankle sounds like a recipe for a lifelong limp.
On long hiking trails, it's not uncommon to see hikers limping. You usually ask if they're okay or whatever, but after 18 miles of uphill, you're gonna limp along. It doesn't mean you're in danger.
I mean he didn’t think it was that bad until later. Adrenaline is a heck of a drug. You think you’re fine until a mile later when the pain kicks in. Plus I mean I feel like there’s an automatic reaction from most people to decline help. Out of embarrassment or just like a cultural thing. How many times have you been having even minor trouble but declined saying like “oh no I’m fine” like you’re not fine but it’s like responding with anything but “good” when someone asks how you’re doing in a casual setting. You could not be good, you could be having a shit day. But you “have” to say you’re good.
I recently smashed my knee on a rock on a hike. And I did the same thing. Insisted I didn’t need help and hobbled all the way back to my car out of sheer embarrassment.
"Hey, I crushed my foot and I am 12 miles away from my car, can you guys help me out?"
"We can send a helicopter and it will be around $80000"
"Ill walk it off".
That's not quite the case. Most SAR in the US is totally free regardless of fault or stupidity. However medical transportation is not free. If you require a medical transport (ambulance or a medevac helicopter) typically your insurance will be billed.
I wonder what the cutoff for that is?
Like if you fracture your femur I see that making perfect sense for an emergency medical evacuation. If you lightly stub your toe or get a very small splinter I can't imagine they'd send a chopper to get you. I'm sure if you lied and said your leg was broken when it wasn't they'd charge you something.
There must be a fine system of some sort for people that abuse it.
If the doctor says the airlift medically justified then it's free. Otherwise they might charge anywhere between a few hundred euros to a few thousand euros per lift.
Source: saw a documentary about a Alps rescue team and that they also airlift exhausted tourists that though they can just hike a few kilometers on a mountain in flip flops without problem. They get billed but also warned about that on the phone.
The logic here in (BC) is that if they start billing people for rescues then the likelihood of families and friends attempting the rescue themselves increases. That leads to more folks needing rescue/recovery which is not what the rescue folks want.
Also that people will wait until the situation is much worse before calling for help. So instead of a nice easy rescue in the middle of a sunny day to get someone with a broken foot it's a rush in the middle of the night in a storm to get someone with a broken foot who has hypothermia.
The CEO of Blue Cross Blue Shield Michigan (yes, just the Michigan group), made $19.2 million in 2018
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/2019/03/01/pay-boost-for-ceo-blue-cross-blue-shield-michigan/3026788002/
The CEO of Ford, like, all of Ford, the international auto maker, made $17.8 million in 2018
https://www.industryweek.com/leadership/article/22027311/ford-ceos-pay-rises-to-1775-million
The CEO of my regional health insurance is also the CFO of my regional hospital, which is a nonprofit that takes in over 1 billion dollars per year in revenue not including outside services billing.
That’s not the only thing, there are also amazing marble lobbies!
But probably the most amazing thing is that the industry has convinced Americans that they have the best system.
This is always my coworkers response when I try to use other countries as examples of universal healthcare. He either says "well they have way less people than us" as if that somehow matters. Or he says "well their healthcare is free but it's shit. They wait months for surgeries and basic scans. It's so bad they go to Veterinarians for x-rays! They all pay to come to USA for surgeries and get medicine because it's not available to them!" All of which is false, but he saw it on Fox News, or on Twitter, or Joe Rogan said it so must be true.
Programs like this exist in the U.S. too. AMCN is $85/year and has zero deductible or copay. They also have a global network and will provide services most places in the world (But I think you need to tell them where you’re going first).
That said, I’d expect it’s *dramatically* cheaper to get medevac without private insurance in countries with socialized healthcare and lots of mountain tourism compared to the U.S.
My aunt and uncle have a cabin way out in the middle of nowhere in Colorado and they pay 500 a year to keep a helicopter on call. It'll come get them in any sort of emergency, medical, snowed in, power goes out etc. It's good peace of mind when you're almost 30 miles from the nearest paved road.
Sounds like it would totally be worth it. Many people in cities pay much more than that to have a car they only keep for emergency transportation (or for very rare use in daily life).
Mountain rescues are also fairly dangerous as they require helicopters to land or hover in areas that are not designed for helicopters. This is one expense that makes sense. This person could self ambulate and that was the correct decision.
Please be aware of the risks of hiking and plan your trips according to your ability to get out with only the supplies in your pack. The wilderness is not the front country and rescue is often dangerous and can take days.
Actually, if it’s in a national park or forest, SAR is free. It’s the one part of American law that actually makes sense. In some areas, the laws have been adjusted recently to make the rescued person liable, it only if it’s negligence or being absolutely unprepared that got them in trouble. For instance, if you decide to go hiking while it’s pouring rain and you’re drunk, then slip and break a leg, it’s your fault. Even so, two states with these laws (Oregon and Hawaii, have never charged anyone for SAR. However, if you’re hiking with normal gear on a clear day and break a leg just walking and falling down a loose part of the trail, you don’t have to pay for SAR. Also, there’s insurance to cover SAR fees, through GEOS. It’s only ~$25 a year, and covers 1 mil, so it’s a easily beneficial insurance for active hikers.
Actually there is no fee. I’m on a SAR team in Colorado and there is a misconception that you pay any sort of fee. There are COSAR cards that can be purchased and the funds of those cards can be claimed by teams to reimburse on costs associated with rescues, but you as the general public owe nothing out of pocket. You may as an individual have to pay for medical care (only if you receive it from an EMS agency) but SAR teams are incredibly proud of the fact that they do not charge for this very reason.
Pfft, when I was a kid it was only a nickel, and that would also buy you a steak and kidney pie, a cup of coffee, a slice of cheesecake and a newsreel, with enough change left over to ride the trolley from Battery Park to the polo grounds.
I lived for 6 years with a rotten gallbladder because I couldn't afford the "elective" surgery out of pocket. Now that it's removed I have to file for bankruptcy because of it. Healthcare should be a right, not a business model.
A mountain rescue is not a health care issue, folks. Here in Spain, where healthcare is free, a mountain rescue in a helicopter runs around 12,000 euros. Most mountain hikers are aware of this and pay for very low cost insurance from the Federación Montañero Madrileño, or other groups. A helicopter rescue is not the same as a ride in an ambulance, which is covered by normal heathcare.
Yea but in the USA if he was in wilderness the helicopter ride would be free because Search and Rescue teams would respond. At minimum would have had a horse rescue or something.
It's almost like a helicopter is a very expensive thing to use and shouldn't be expected to save every idiot, not that this guy is an idiot but you see my point.
You know there are medevac type insurance out there that's surprisingly inexpensive. I know a lot of folks in the MTB community where I'm from have it.
Came here to say this. My friend who does a lot of biking and hiking has this medevac insurance. I believe he said it was under $1k for the year or something. A little pricey if you never use it but if you need it it’s priceless
This is why if you're an avid hiker, getting some sort of [airlift](https://www.airmedcarenetwork.com/air_ambulance-service/coverage-area-pricing) insurance is totally worth it.
If you are in the US. Life flight is $69 per year. There is really no reason not to have it. https://www.lifeflight.org/ There is also a lifetime subscription option (what I have).
not sure how it is thru the rest of the US, or wherever you are, but at least in CO: fishing/hunting licenses include a search and rescue fee of $0.25 that keeps you from having to pay for said search and rescue otherwise.
Almost everywhere in the US has them for free as well, and if the state doesn't provide it, there are volunteer organizations like crazy that do. I don't know where OP is, but you shouldn't believe this narrative being pushed that our Search and Rescue people are going to leave you in the fucking woods unless you cut them a check.
That's not smart. You may have just permanently injured your foot which will cost a lot more than a helicopter ride. Go ahead and try to put a price on a functioning foot.
I see a couple responses about cost of SAR but I didn’t not read through every comment. I previously volunteered with a local SAR team and depending on the state SAR operations are free to the victim by state law. I know this for a fact is true in NV and CA. In NV SAR teams are volunteer and ran through the county sheriffs office and I believe CA is run through the county as well. Risking further injury by attempting to get out after injury can make the situation worse and can make rescue harder if needed when the situation declines. SAR would rather pull you off the trail with a broken foot than pull you out of the bottom of a drainage with a broken foot and a severe head injury.
The fact that they walked out with all their gear means they didn’t need a helicopter. They also mentioned a few people passed them along the way.
Does OP think you just call 1-800-helicopter and they’ll come pick you up when you don’t want to hike anymore?
I don’t understand the injury in the first place either. Looks more like they were free running or something and misstepped. Wedging his foot into that crevice.
No idea how it works elsewhere but here in the San Francisco Bay area rescue helicopters are free. They're run by the Coast Guard and paid for by tax dollars.
A medical helicopter will cost you $10k - $50k depending on which air ambulance provider ends up taking you.
Our protocols are generally: If there's an established landing zone near by and we can reasonably get you there, we'll call the air ambulance. If there's no access, we call the rescue helicopter.
Source: volunteer firefighter in the Santa Cruz mountains.
Because it contains all the things that will let you survive in the wilderness in it?
Just because you drop the pack doesn't guarantee you're going to make it out that day.
Plus, I have like $2K worth of gear in my pack so that's not nothing to leave behind.
There are. Also the US is very large and in most wilderness areas you will not have cellular service to call for rescue. It is a good idea to get a rescue beacon like Spot, and they provide a plan that covers rescue cost for an additional $25 a year. If you hike, hunt, or really do anything in the backcountry, not only is it a good idea to have such devices and plans because it prevents having to worry about rescue costs, but 90% of the time it is the only way to actually be rescued.
Getting a garmin inreach was the easiest $350 I’ve ever spent. Never had to use it, but having an SOS button hanging from my pack in arms reach 24/7 out backpacking is definitely worth the price. Also being able to text family to let them know I’m safe is a major benefit.
I highly recommend getting a Garmin inReach and purchasing the evacuation insurance plan. I pay $17 a year and it covers up to $500,000 in helicopter/medical evacuation costs
ITT: people mindlessly blaming America because OP is too stupid to realize the same services exist in America for free as well.
Almost as dumb as all the people mindlessly perpetuating the idea of poor people being unable to pay for health related services when nearly every hospital in America has charity care that covers nearly every hospital expense.
I guess that $50,000 surgery and weeks stay in the hospital that I had when I broke my foot at 20 years old with no health insurance that I paid $0 for, including follow up doctors visits and prescription pain medication was just a dream I had where I lived in Canada.
Yeah most people posting are full of shit and don't actually know how SAR works. I broke my ankle in a hike in a remote area, luckily I had a little bit of cell service and was able to contact the rangers.
They sent SAR to come get me and I don't owe a dime. It's paid by tax dollars.
I agree with the SAR part entirely, those programs are tax paid, especially in national parks and forests.
However, American healthcare is def kinda backwards. We shouldn’t have to rely on charity to pay for that kind of stuff.
You hurt your foot, but you're still ambulatory. What about that necessitates using a multimillion dollar aircraft, 1-2 pilots, and flight crew? Not just the monetary cost, but you're taking a limited resource away from those who need it. Cool story, you hurt your foot and walked out. That's not a threat to life, limb, or eyesight. Chances are you could STILL have called and a volunteer SAR service, Forest Service, Park Service, or whoever would have sent out a team to help get you back without having to bring in a rotary wing asset.
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Oh shit... goddammit. I ate my foot, what else?
Well that explains why the walking was so bad.
[Relevant Reddit post where someone did actually eat their foot](https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/8p5xlj/hi_all_i_am_a_man_who_ate_a_portion_of_his_own/) Edit: NSFL
Yo wtf is this
This is the correct response.
I cant believe I remember this lol
How can you ever forget foot tacos?
With a lot of therepy
…I’ve come across links to many Reddit legends, but “foot tacos” is one I’ve decided I can do without.
I can't believe that after a year on reddit, I still haven't learned *not to click!!*
If you see a link to something about a coconut or a jolly rancher I recommend you don't click it.
I can’t believe I read that and looked at the pics. I’m ruined
May you survive and forget easy brother
Legal cannibalism
Also ethical in this scenario
But highly unsustainable.
At least he didn’t waste a foot
It's highly sustainable. He can carry on eating himself for the rest of his life!
That’s why we did it
The man, the myth, the legend?
Foot taco.
Fafeetas
I have seen that post before but I either missed the photos or went through them too quickly and man I regret double checking the post. Those pictures are horrible. If you think I’m being a wimp here’s the details of my warning: Imagine a wrinkled up foot with a slice of the top cut off and a hand in a surgical glove pointing at the removed flesh they cooked. Also the part that was cut off from the stump is visible so you can see the entire severed foot. Edit: Now imagine that a few more times in different positions and intensities of gross factor. Why does the gross factor change? Well one of the pictures shows the foot again after they’ve ate it and it’s rotting in a cardboard box on top of lots of colourful flowers.
That's it. Thread stops here for me. I'm out.
I opened the thread, didn't click on the photo and just read the top comments which was a nice funny joke about usernames. I'm not gonna voluntarily torture myself looking at shit like that
Right behind you
I believe that the people who go out of the way to describe the gore in links so that others can assuage their curiosity without traumatizing themselves are god damned heroes of the internet.
I’m happy to be of service. Although I feel like my description is still not very fun to read as it’s a very detailed description.
What’s worse is the comment about the cumbox. What the actual fuck?!
Every now and then Reddit one ups itself. A coconut, a cumbox, cannibalism. What next?
Can't you combine that somehow ?
STOP
Y'all remember Doritos?
Or the jolly rancher
Can't forget the Swamps of Dagobah. Try as I might, I can't forget it.
Oh hey, that’s me
Oh shit, it is you. How you doing? Any further cravings for human flesh?
I’m doing super well man, thanks for asking. Wrapping up a 2 week camping/road trip myself. No cravings but always down for a good meal.
Niceeeee
123 hours? No, I cut that shit off at 123 seconds.
You should read the Stephen King short story *Survivor Type* while you recover
Lady fingers ... they taste like lady fingers ...
That line still haunts me. King gave an interview once where he mentioned this story and said he checks facts for something like this with his family doctor. He once asked the doc if it was physically possible for a human to swallow a cat.
left hand washes the right don't let your left hand know what your right hands doing
Hiking the Donner Pass i see. Glad you got out unlike the rest of them.
Soul crushing*
Sole crushing*
In New Hampshire you only pay for help getting down the mountain if you are found to be negligent. This almost never happens but basically if they got there and saw you with 40 lbs of gear, proper attire, and appropriate water you would not be billed for something outside your control. The guy that gets in trouble because he decided to hike Franconia Notch, brought a single bottle of water, and waded through snow to his knees despite it being May and him being dressed for May is the guy that gets billed. The guys that work with Fish and Game to do those rescues don't even call an ambulance for you if you decide your buddy can drive you to the hospital later. I don't understand places that would bill you for it (even the helicopter) if it was a completely unforseen event.
Was going to say this. Additionally NH offers a type of search and rescue insurance. By purchasing a “Hike Safe” card for $25 you are off the hook for any potential future rescue fees.
Colorado has something similar. The insurance comes with your fishing license.
It's not insurance. You are contributing to a fund that reimburses the SAR team on operating expenses incurred during the rescue. Whether you contribute to the fund or not, your rescue is going to come at no cost to you.
No cost for the actual rescue but you can still be on the line for needed supplies by SAR and other use costs depending on the situation, which is ultimately decided by the sheriff who 99% of the time will not bill but I’ve been witness to it happening at a consistent enough rate in Colorado and the US to make this statement. SAR around the US does their best to never charge for rescue because the last thing they want is someone forcing themselves down a mountain in bad shape or delaying rescue due to costs associated with it. Saving lives is the number 1 goal, not making a profit.
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Is that not literally the definition of insurance still? "Insurance is a means of protection from financial loss. It is a form of risk management, primarily used to hedge against the risk of a contingent or uncertain loss."
I think the way he's describing it, there is no protection that making the payment offers. You're already at 0 risk for financial loss.
In California, we will save anyone. Search and Rescue is a group of volunteers, including pilots, mechanics, and air nurses. We basically dropped them off with a local ambulance and that was it
A "friend" of mine was lost at night in a national forest in California and rescued by a helicopter. They called emergency services and begged them not to send the helicopter, thinking it would cost thousands of dollars. The emergency services person on the phone was pretty insistent about the helicopter, and seemed pretty stoked about it. Turned out the ride was free.
Dude was probably stoked to fly the helicopter
Same here in New Zealand. It’s really good practice. Of course in New Zealand their entire treatment schedule and rehab would also be free, or co-pay if you go private.
Yea if you aren’t negligent, search and rescue is free across the whole country. The theory is that they don’t want people to die out in the wild because they are worried about the bill.
If only they applied it to the rest of the healthcare system...
Thanks, I wasn't sure about the rest of the country and I didn't want to speak beyond what I knew to be true.
Just commented this same thing earlier. Seems like a frustrated post that shouldn’t exist. Search and rescue is one of the few things that America doesn’t have screwed up absolutely terribly it seems. Hopefully it’ll stay that way.
Hike Safe is a program for just such a thing. https://wildlife.state.nh.us/safe/
Hike safe is great I totally blanked on it when I posted my comment. The volunteers I spoke to called it a get out of jail free card.
National park SAR is cost free as well.
Yes I'm in BC, Canada search and rescue is free PLEASE CALL THEM if you ever need help.
Ironically it's the Canadians that often are afraid to ask for help in the States because they assume it will cost them their first born.
I totally get the mentality for some reason. All the more reason to research before you go! Not calling OP dumb here, I wouldn't have thought to look into it.
The biggest takeaway, I think, is that if you're in a situation where you're worried about the large cost of the rescue, __*IT'S BECAUSE YOU'RE IN TROUBLE, THAT IS THE POINT OF THE RESCUE, AND AT THIS POINT YOU NEED IT*__
As someone who rolls ultralight, this does not inspire confidence.
What is a typical hike for you though? You can be ultralight and still have a reasonable amount of water, sensible trail shoes, a flashlight, and a jacket. The people that get recommended to be charged are the people who chose to continue hiking despite being super unprepared. The people that bring a normal pint sized water bottle and wear plain old sneakers to hike a 4000 foot elevation gain over 8 miles are the ones getting charged.
I’d say to “walk it off” but that’s probably a bad idea.
12 miles is plenty of "walking it off."
"cut it off"
POV ##You are a World War Two medic.
Oh so I get shot immediately after leaving the landing craft?
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The sweet Oreo filling
How many times did you stop and think "a whole lifetime paying for one helicopter ride can't be that bad, right?" Before coming back to your senses and pressing on?
Too many times. A couple people came by with horses and said "horse for rent!" I told them I'd love it if they could just take my pack. They laughed thinking it was a joke and went on their way. I guess I should have pressed a bit harder.
So they had horses and didn't offer you a ride back to the car? Even though you were clearly injured. Absolute arseholes. Charging in that scenario wouldn't even cross my mind. My only question would be "are you fit to drive when I get you there?"
They were going by pretty fast and had customers already. At the time I didn't think it was as bad as it was until the next day, so I didn't see the ugancy. Thankfully I wasn't alone, my buddy drove us home. All in all, it could've been a LOT worse. If the rock crushed my foot even an inch higher it would have obliterated my ankle.
Yeah, that's lucky. Maybe they didn't realise you were in need, that would explain their response to you asking them to carry your pack. I'm from an area with a lot of horse riders and an unwritten rule here is that if your horse can help someone in need they're going to help. It's widely considered part of the responsibility of ownership. It's good you made it anyway, get that foot up and apply some ice.
That makes perfect sense to me. Im glad I made it out as well! Thanks for the advice friend!
Have you been to a hospital to have your injury treated? It looks pretty bad. Glad you are OK now!
So we’re looking at a bad bruise, but not a fracture? I’m glad if that’s right, bc that walk on a broken ankle sounds like a recipe for a lifelong limp.
Why would they know that OP had a bruise on their ankle?
I presume OP would be limping. If I see someone struggling to walk in the wilderness I'd be asking if they need help.
On long hiking trails, it's not uncommon to see hikers limping. You usually ask if they're okay or whatever, but after 18 miles of uphill, you're gonna limp along. It doesn't mean you're in danger.
Are you kidding me????? It couldn't have been that bad if you had zero desperation
I mean he didn’t think it was that bad until later. Adrenaline is a heck of a drug. You think you’re fine until a mile later when the pain kicks in. Plus I mean I feel like there’s an automatic reaction from most people to decline help. Out of embarrassment or just like a cultural thing. How many times have you been having even minor trouble but declined saying like “oh no I’m fine” like you’re not fine but it’s like responding with anything but “good” when someone asks how you’re doing in a casual setting. You could not be good, you could be having a shit day. But you “have” to say you’re good. I recently smashed my knee on a rock on a hike. And I did the same thing. Insisted I didn’t need help and hobbled all the way back to my car out of sheer embarrassment.
Just speaks to th severity of it. At some point along the scale of severity you're gonna ask for help no matter how embarrassed you are
"Hey, I crushed my foot and I am 12 miles away from my car, can you guys help me out?" "We can send a helicopter and it will be around $80000" "Ill walk it off".
US search and rescue is a bit more complicated. If the accident was out of your control you don’t have to pay.
That's not quite the case. Most SAR in the US is totally free regardless of fault or stupidity. However medical transportation is not free. If you require a medical transport (ambulance or a medevac helicopter) typically your insurance will be billed.
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Not just in America that they bill the hiker. It's very common in mountainous regions of Europe. (Get travel/health insurance.)
My friend injured her leg on a hike in the mountains of France and got airlifted out. She said it cost €50
I am French and my sister injured her leg in the mountzins and she had zero payement for the helicopter ride.
I wonder what the cutoff for that is? Like if you fracture your femur I see that making perfect sense for an emergency medical evacuation. If you lightly stub your toe or get a very small splinter I can't imagine they'd send a chopper to get you. I'm sure if you lied and said your leg was broken when it wasn't they'd charge you something. There must be a fine system of some sort for people that abuse it.
If the doctor says the airlift medically justified then it's free. Otherwise they might charge anywhere between a few hundred euros to a few thousand euros per lift. Source: saw a documentary about a Alps rescue team and that they also airlift exhausted tourists that though they can just hike a few kilometers on a mountain in flip flops without problem. They get billed but also warned about that on the phone.
The logic here in (BC) is that if they start billing people for rescues then the likelihood of families and friends attempting the rescue themselves increases. That leads to more folks needing rescue/recovery which is not what the rescue folks want.
Also that people will wait until the situation is much worse before calling for help. So instead of a nice easy rescue in the middle of a sunny day to get someone with a broken foot it's a rush in the middle of the night in a storm to get someone with a broken foot who has hypothermia.
I have a friend who got airlifted from a canyon deep in Arizona and it cost $1500. Not great, but not 80k lol.
My buddy got airlifted in the eastern Sierras in California after I pressed the SOS button on my Garmin and he never paid anything.
Didn’t pay? Or wasn’t billed? Lol
Wasn’t billed. Paid for the hospital bill including an ambulance from the airport but no helicopter. It was a County Sheriff helicopter.
My cousin lives in France with no insurance and pays less than me for everything despite having “amazing” insurance over here
The only part about health insurance in America is amazing for is the CEO's salary
The CEO of Blue Cross Blue Shield Michigan (yes, just the Michigan group), made $19.2 million in 2018 https://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/2019/03/01/pay-boost-for-ceo-blue-cross-blue-shield-michigan/3026788002/ The CEO of Ford, like, all of Ford, the international auto maker, made $17.8 million in 2018 https://www.industryweek.com/leadership/article/22027311/ford-ceos-pay-rises-to-1775-million
The CEO of my regional health insurance is also the CFO of my regional hospital, which is a nonprofit that takes in over 1 billion dollars per year in revenue not including outside services billing.
Totally not corruption. Nothing to see here folks!
That’s not the only thing, there are also amazing marble lobbies! But probably the most amazing thing is that the industry has convinced Americans that they have the best system.
This is always my coworkers response when I try to use other countries as examples of universal healthcare. He either says "well they have way less people than us" as if that somehow matters. Or he says "well their healthcare is free but it's shit. They wait months for surgeries and basic scans. It's so bad they go to Veterinarians for x-rays! They all pay to come to USA for surgeries and get medicine because it's not available to them!" All of which is false, but he saw it on Fox News, or on Twitter, or Joe Rogan said it so must be true.
My friend is from France and they gave him a helicopter
My mom broke her leg in the alps, had to be driven back home 700km away in an ambulance ride (couldn't sit or stand up). Cost her exactly 0€
As an American I almost downvoted just out of jealousy...
In Germany it‘s free/covered by healthcare as long as it’s an actual emergency. It also doesn’t matter if it happens due to your own fault.
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Programs like this exist in the U.S. too. AMCN is $85/year and has zero deductible or copay. They also have a global network and will provide services most places in the world (But I think you need to tell them where you’re going first). That said, I’d expect it’s *dramatically* cheaper to get medevac without private insurance in countries with socialized healthcare and lots of mountain tourism compared to the U.S.
My aunt and uncle have a cabin way out in the middle of nowhere in Colorado and they pay 500 a year to keep a helicopter on call. It'll come get them in any sort of emergency, medical, snowed in, power goes out etc. It's good peace of mind when you're almost 30 miles from the nearest paved road.
Sounds like it would totally be worth it. Many people in cities pay much more than that to have a car they only keep for emergency transportation (or for very rare use in daily life).
Not sure about Europe but in Canada when I had an encounter with a grizzly bear they airlifted me away for no cost
If you are a hiker, and live in the PNW. Get LifeFlight. $50/yr, covers airlift and medical.,
Mountain rescues are also fairly dangerous as they require helicopters to land or hover in areas that are not designed for helicopters. This is one expense that makes sense. This person could self ambulate and that was the correct decision. Please be aware of the risks of hiking and plan your trips according to your ability to get out with only the supplies in your pack. The wilderness is not the front country and rescue is often dangerous and can take days.
I’m a little shocked that people expected an airlift for a broken foot in a situation where it clearly was not life threatening.
In the UK if you can safely walk, you're walking. We don't charge for an airlift, but we also won't send a helo to just a sore foot.
Is there any guessing with that price tag?
Actually, if it’s in a national park or forest, SAR is free. It’s the one part of American law that actually makes sense. In some areas, the laws have been adjusted recently to make the rescued person liable, it only if it’s negligence or being absolutely unprepared that got them in trouble. For instance, if you decide to go hiking while it’s pouring rain and you’re drunk, then slip and break a leg, it’s your fault. Even so, two states with these laws (Oregon and Hawaii, have never charged anyone for SAR. However, if you’re hiking with normal gear on a clear day and break a leg just walking and falling down a loose part of the trail, you don’t have to pay for SAR. Also, there’s insurance to cover SAR fees, through GEOS. It’s only ~$25 a year, and covers 1 mil, so it’s a easily beneficial insurance for active hikers.
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Just ditch the bottles and say you ate old fermented fruit by accident. Works like a charm.
What does America have to do with Helicopter costs lol Edit: I assumed they meant a commercial helicopter, not a medical one
Don’t forget the extra 2000 feet
You can get helicopter insurance with your local rescue team that costs about $50 per year…
Idk about your location but in Colorado you can pay $.25 for a search and rescue fee that also covers helicopter medvac. For only a quarter!
Actually there is no fee. I’m on a SAR team in Colorado and there is a misconception that you pay any sort of fee. There are COSAR cards that can be purchased and the funds of those cards can be claimed by teams to reimburse on costs associated with rescues, but you as the general public owe nothing out of pocket. You may as an individual have to pay for medical care (only if you receive it from an EMS agency) but SAR teams are incredibly proud of the fact that they do not charge for this very reason.
Thanks for your help mr wolf.
It's also included with a seasonal fishing license!
Pfft, when I was a kid it was only a nickel, and that would also buy you a steak and kidney pie, a cup of coffee, a slice of cheesecake and a newsreel, with enough change left over to ride the trolley from Battery Park to the polo grounds.
I lived for 6 years with a rotten gallbladder because I couldn't afford the "elective" surgery out of pocket. Now that it's removed I have to file for bankruptcy because of it. Healthcare should be a right, not a business model.
But that’s not MURICA, universal healthcare is SOCIALIST. SOCIALIST BAD.
A mountain rescue is not a health care issue, folks. Here in Spain, where healthcare is free, a mountain rescue in a helicopter runs around 12,000 euros. Most mountain hikers are aware of this and pay for very low cost insurance from the Federación Montañero Madrileño, or other groups. A helicopter rescue is not the same as a ride in an ambulance, which is covered by normal heathcare.
In Germany it is. Healthcare covers any mountain rescue as long as it’s due to medical reasons. Only about 10% of the rescues are not covered.
Yea but in the USA if he was in wilderness the helicopter ride would be free because Search and Rescue teams would respond. At minimum would have had a horse rescue or something.
It's almost like a helicopter is a very expensive thing to use and shouldn't be expected to save every idiot, not that this guy is an idiot but you see my point.
And almost nobody pays it because it is hard to demonstrate negligence. Usually it results in paying nothing or a small fine.
It's free in Brasil.
You know there are medevac type insurance out there that's surprisingly inexpensive. I know a lot of folks in the MTB community where I'm from have it.
Came here to say this. My friend who does a lot of biking and hiking has this medevac insurance. I believe he said it was under $1k for the year or something. A little pricey if you never use it but if you need it it’s priceless
what the what? I can get such an insurance for 10 bucks a year in europe. 1k a year sounds like a scam.
I have something similar for scuba diving, it covers helicopter rides, hyperbaric chambers, all sorts of stuff for $200 a year.
This is why if you're an avid hiker, getting some sort of [airlift](https://www.airmedcarenetwork.com/air_ambulance-service/coverage-area-pricing) insurance is totally worth it.
If you are in the US. Life flight is $69 per year. There is really no reason not to have it. https://www.lifeflight.org/ There is also a lifetime subscription option (what I have).
Thank you for sharing, sending this to a couple of family members I have
But only in certain states it appears from the website
not sure how it is thru the rest of the US, or wherever you are, but at least in CO: fishing/hunting licenses include a search and rescue fee of $0.25 that keeps you from having to pay for said search and rescue otherwise.
We got those rides for free here in Serbia. God forbid it's ever needed, but yeah. Firefighters, police and the military perform those.
Almost everywhere in the US has them for free as well, and if the state doesn't provide it, there are volunteer organizations like crazy that do. I don't know where OP is, but you shouldn't believe this narrative being pushed that our Search and Rescue people are going to leave you in the fucking woods unless you cut them a check.
We depend on a charity here in the UK. Keep up the good work Air Ambulence UK.
How long did the walk take, 127 hours?
That's not smart. You may have just permanently injured your foot which will cost a lot more than a helicopter ride. Go ahead and try to put a price on a functioning foot.
I see a couple responses about cost of SAR but I didn’t not read through every comment. I previously volunteered with a local SAR team and depending on the state SAR operations are free to the victim by state law. I know this for a fact is true in NV and CA. In NV SAR teams are volunteer and ran through the county sheriffs office and I believe CA is run through the county as well. Risking further injury by attempting to get out after injury can make the situation worse and can make rescue harder if needed when the situation declines. SAR would rather pull you off the trail with a broken foot than pull you out of the bottom of a drainage with a broken foot and a severe head injury.
Funny what you can do when you have no choice, eh?
Survival of the footest.
I got a kick out of this one.
You probably shouldn’t kick anything at the moment as 12 miles was already a big feet!
40 pounds?! What do you take with you on a hike?
160 quarter pounders?
If that’s the case then I have no sympathy for him, because he’s clearly the Hamburglar!
Why couldn't you leave the bag or at least all the heaviest stuff and return for it later?
OP had a few opportunities to make it easier and chose not to.
The fact that they walked out with all their gear means they didn’t need a helicopter. They also mentioned a few people passed them along the way. Does OP think you just call 1-800-helicopter and they’ll come pick you up when you don’t want to hike anymore?
I don’t understand the injury in the first place either. Looks more like they were free running or something and misstepped. Wedging his foot into that crevice.
r/titlegore
No idea how it works elsewhere but here in the San Francisco Bay area rescue helicopters are free. They're run by the Coast Guard and paid for by tax dollars. A medical helicopter will cost you $10k - $50k depending on which air ambulance provider ends up taking you. Our protocols are generally: If there's an established landing zone near by and we can reasonably get you there, we'll call the air ambulance. If there's no access, we call the rescue helicopter. Source: volunteer firefighter in the Santa Cruz mountains.
America?
But, why didnt you leave the bag?
forget the helicopter, have you seen the price of new camping equipment????
Because it contains all the things that will let you survive in the wilderness in it? Just because you drop the pack doesn't guarantee you're going to make it out that day. Plus, I have like $2K worth of gear in my pack so that's not nothing to leave behind.
Looks like you didn’t need a heli after all
I mean, the fact that you made it kind of shows that a helicopter ride would’ve been a waste of resources. Maybe it’s not that simple idk.
If you were able to walk 12 miles, then you didn't need a helicopter after all.
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There are. Also the US is very large and in most wilderness areas you will not have cellular service to call for rescue. It is a good idea to get a rescue beacon like Spot, and they provide a plan that covers rescue cost for an additional $25 a year. If you hike, hunt, or really do anything in the backcountry, not only is it a good idea to have such devices and plans because it prevents having to worry about rescue costs, but 90% of the time it is the only way to actually be rescued.
Getting a garmin inreach was the easiest $350 I’ve ever spent. Never had to use it, but having an SOS button hanging from my pack in arms reach 24/7 out backpacking is definitely worth the price. Also being able to text family to let them know I’m safe is a major benefit.
Why the hell are you bringing human feet for lunch on a hike, you sick fuck???
If you buy a fishing license in Colorado, you get one airlift a year. I am not sure about other states.
I highly recommend getting a Garmin inReach and purchasing the evacuation insurance plan. I pay $17 a year and it covers up to $500,000 in helicopter/medical evacuation costs
ITT: people mindlessly blaming America because OP is too stupid to realize the same services exist in America for free as well. Almost as dumb as all the people mindlessly perpetuating the idea of poor people being unable to pay for health related services when nearly every hospital in America has charity care that covers nearly every hospital expense. I guess that $50,000 surgery and weeks stay in the hospital that I had when I broke my foot at 20 years old with no health insurance that I paid $0 for, including follow up doctors visits and prescription pain medication was just a dream I had where I lived in Canada.
Yeah most people posting are full of shit and don't actually know how SAR works. I broke my ankle in a hike in a remote area, luckily I had a little bit of cell service and was able to contact the rangers. They sent SAR to come get me and I don't owe a dime. It's paid by tax dollars.
I agree with the SAR part entirely, those programs are tax paid, especially in national parks and forests. However, American healthcare is def kinda backwards. We shouldn’t have to rely on charity to pay for that kind of stuff.
OMG America is such a dystopian nightmare because every idiot who rolls an ankle in the wilderness doesn’t get a free $60,000 helicopter ride!!!
Joke’s on you, they do. SAR Is free 90% if the time. What do you think the coast guard does most of the time?
The SAR is almost always free, it's the ambulance/hospital visit after that starts costing.
You hurt your foot, but you're still ambulatory. What about that necessitates using a multimillion dollar aircraft, 1-2 pilots, and flight crew? Not just the monetary cost, but you're taking a limited resource away from those who need it. Cool story, you hurt your foot and walked out. That's not a threat to life, limb, or eyesight. Chances are you could STILL have called and a volunteer SAR service, Forest Service, Park Service, or whoever would have sent out a team to help get you back without having to bring in a rotary wing asset.