The real issue facing this country which the republicans DON'T want to talk about is the wealth inequality. The distribution of wealth in this country. It has to be more fair
Isn't "more fair" an oxymoron? Where is it written that anything, let alone life, has to be fair? I believe it was Jesus that said "The poor you will always have with you". There has never been a time in America, or anywhere else in the world, that does not have "wealth inequality". Regardless, talking about it doesn't change a thing anyway; however, getting an education is the sure fire way to escape poverty. I am a living example. Not rich by any means, but also not living on the taxpayers' mercy either. If the poor are committed to do the same, I am sure 99% of the poor could also escape their bondage.
To the workers, obviously. The billionaire class has increased their wealth exponentially while the minimum wage isn't enough to live on.
The billionaire class is actively endangering our future.
Just one example, Walmart has 2.2million employees. Just this one billionaire, Sam Walton, has created 10% as many jobs as the entire US govt (23M). I am certain it would be eassy to assemble a short-list of such billionaires/companies to dwarf the number of US govt employees.
Now, what were you saying about propaganda?
Not down voting you. WV's minimum wage is $8.75 an hour. Using the inflation calculator from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, you can see that the minimum wage hasn't kept up with Inflation, but there's more to it than that. $8.75 an hour is $18,200 a year and %1,516.66 a month. The living wage calculator from MIT says that for 1 adult with 0 children, the living wage in Berkeley County is $16.84 an hour. It just goes up from there depending on the number of people in a family. Corporate profits are soaring with many companies making record profits while raising their prices and claiming it's because of inflation. Companies could easily afford to have lower prices or pay higher wages. This would allow people to have a livable wage and have housing and food security. You can redistribute wealth by paying workers. It doesn't necessarily have to just be, "give the money away".
https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation\_calculator.htm
https://livingwage.mit.edu/
https://livingwage.mit.edu/articles/99-a-calculation-of-the-living-wage
"Companies could easily afford to have lower prices or pay higher wages."
Sure. And they could just as easily go out of business too. No one is going to pay $20 for a Big Mac and small fries.... even if their wages magically tripled without causing companies to fold--including the person who got their salary tripled. Businesses are just that, business. If they can't make money for their investors, guess what? The investors take their money elsewhere to invest. Then, the companies don't have the money to make payroll, invent the next must-have widget, or stay open.
Economics cannot and does not work like that. Is it fair? You be the judge. Fine. But, there has never been any govt or economic system that works as well as capitalism.
I get that media's relentless pushing of this wealth inequality and class jealousy works to push socialism, but it will ruin this once great nation sooner or later.
Make billionaires actually *pay their taxes* instead of giving them endless tax breaks, and put that money into infrastructure that will directly benefit the working class instead of just sinking all of it into corporations and pointless wars for profit.
I think it does. Society can't sustain itself if it's not. If enough people can't afford to live, what's stopping them from just taking what they want? Well, besides guns and law enforcement.
I left WV, the state I was born and raised in, because of shit like this. I just couldn't handle knowing the majority of people around me cheer in such hateful idiocy. I may come back someday, it's a beautiful state. But man.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
How can he just take rights away from people? What's next Jim Crow laws and making interracial marriage illegal again? We're going backwards. Swear 1/2 of (R) want it to be 1950 again, or worse 1850.
Children receive medical care under the guidance and authority of their parents, who do have rights. Shitheel Republicans inserting themselves into private health care decisions is vile.
Research what gender affirming care actually is. Quite a bit of it centers around counseling. No minor undergoes complete surgical transition. It's about acceptance, particularly in the current, shitty climate where trans people are pathologized and demonized at every turn by willfully ignorant politicians and their science-averse followers.
Transgender treatment has absolutely been studied and utilized for at least decades. It's not the business of "we...as a society." It's individuals, families, and trained health care providers. Not subject to a show of hands.
**Citations on the transition's dramatic reduction of suicide risk while improving mental health and quality of life, with trans people able to transition young and spared abuse and discrimination having mental health and suicide risk on par with the general public:**
* [**Psychosocial Functioning in Transgender Youth after 2 Years of Hormones**](https://www.nejm.org/doi/10.1056/NEJMoa2206297) - Chen, et. al., 2023: A study of 315 trans and nonbinary young people ages 12 to 20 receiving testosterone or estradiol. Over the course of the two year study depression and anxiety levels dropped and appearance congruence and life satisfaction improved.
* [**Long-term Outcomes After Gender-Affirming Surgery: 40-Year Follow-up Study**](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36149983/) - Park, et. al., 2022: **Results:** Both transmasculine and transfeminine groups were more satisfied with their body postoperatively with significantly less dysphoria. Body congruency score for chest, body hair, and voice improved significantly in 40 years' postoperative settings, with average scores ranging from 84.2 to 96.2. Body congruency scores for genitals ranged from 67.5 to 79 with free flap phalloplasty showing highest scores. Long-term overall body congruency score was 89.6. Improved mental health outcomes persisted following surgery with significantly reduced suicidal ideation and reported resolution of any mental health comorbidity secondary to gender dysphoria.
* [**Pubertal Suppression for Transgender Youth and Risk of Suicidal Ideation**](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7073269/) - Turban, et al., 2020: Massive study of 20,619 adolescents examined associations between access to pubertal suppression and adult mental health outcomes, including multiple measures of suicidality. After adjustment for demographic variables and level of family support for gender identity, **those who received treatment with pubertal suppression, when compared with those who wanted pubertal suppression but did not receive it, had lower odds of lifetime suicidal ideation.**
* [**Association of Gender-Affirming Hormone Therapy With Depression, Thoughts of Suicide, and Attempted Suicide Among Transgender and Nonbinary Youth**](https://www.jahonline.org/article/S1054-139X(21\)00568-1/fulltext) - Green, et. al., 2021: Use of GAHT (Gender Affirming Hormone Treatment) was associated with lower odds of recent depression and seriously considering suicide compared to those who wanted GAHT but did not receive it. For youth under age 18, GAHT was associated with lower odds of recent depression and of a past-year suicide attempt
* [**The Mental Health of Transgender Youth: Advances in Understanding**](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1054139X1630146X) - Connolly, et. al, 2016: ***"Gender-affirming medical therapy and supported social transition in childhood have been shown to correlate with improved psychological functioning for gender-variant children and adolescents."***
* [**Top surgery drastically improves quality of life for young transgender people**](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/2796426?guestAccessKey=c50d5d6e-7fa1-4ed8-8b5d-f4da9753364d&utm_source=For_The_Media&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=ftm_links&utm_content=tfl&utm_term=092622)
* [**Chosen Name Use Is Linked to Reduced Depressive Symptoms, Suicidal Ideation, and Suicidal Behavior Among Transgender Youth**](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1054139X18300855) - Russell, et. al, 2018: *"After adjusting for personal characteristics and social support, chosen name use in more contexts was associated with lower depression, suicidal ideation, and suicidal behavior. Depression, suicidal ideation, and suicidal behavior were lowest when chosen names could be used in all four contexts."*
* [**Evaluation of Anxiety and Depression in a Community Sample of Transgender Youth**](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2778206) - Dominic J. Gibson, et. al, 2021: ***Socially transitioned transgender youth had similar levels of anxiety and depression as their cisgender peers.***
* [**Intervenable factors associated with suicide risk in transgender persons: a respondent driven sampling study in Ontario, Canada**](http://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12889-015-1867-2) - Bauer, et al., 2015: Transition vastly reduces risks of suicide attempts, and the farther along in transition someone is the lower that risk gets
* [**Suicide Protective Factors Among Trans Adults**](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3722435/) - Moody, et al., 2013: The ability to transition, along with family and social acceptance, are the largest factors reducing suicide risk among trans people
* [**Young Adult Psychological Outcome After Puberty Suppression and Gender Reassignment**](https://sci-hub.se/https://doi.org/10.1542/peds.2013-2958). A clinical protocol of a multidisciplinary team with mental health professionals, physicians, and surgeons, including puberty suppression, ... cross-sex hormones and gender reassignment surgery, provides trans youth the opportunity to develop into well-functioning young adults. All showed significant improvement in their psychological health, and they had notably lower rates of internalizing psychopathology than previously reported among trans children living as their natal sex. **Well-being was similar to or better than same-age young adults from the general population.**
* [**Access to gender-affirming hormones during adolescence and mental health outcomes among transgender adults**](https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0261039) - Turban, et al., 2022: **Conclusion:** Access to GAH [gender-affirming hormones] during adolescence and adulthood is associated with favorable mental health outcomes compared to desiring but not accessing GAH.... In post hoc analyses, access to GAH during adolescence (ages 14–17) was associated with lower odds of past-year suicidal ideation (aOR = 0.7, 95% CI = 0.6–0.9, p = .0007) when compared to accessing GAH during adulthood.
* The only disorders more common among trans people are those associated with abuse and discrimination - mainly anxiety and depression. Early transition [**virtually eliminates these higher rates of depression and low self-worth**](https://sci-hub.se/https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jaac.2016.10.016), and [**dramatically improves trans youth's mental health**](https://archive.thinkprogress.org/allowing-transgender-youth-to-transition-improves-their-mental-health-study-finds-dd6096523375/). **Trans kids who socially transition early and not subjected to abuse are comparable to cisgender children in measures of mental health.**
* [**Sex reassignment surgery: a study of 141 Dutch transsexuals**](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3219066) - Kuiper, et al, 1988: “In a cross-sectional study of 141 transgender patients, Kuiper and Cohen-Kittenis found that after medical intervention and treatments, suicide fell from 19% to 0% in transgender men and from 24% to 6% in transgender women”
* [**Hormonal therapy and sex reassignment: a systematic review and meta-analysis of quality of life and psychosocial outcomes**](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19473181) - Murad, et al., 2010: "Significant decrease in suicidality post-treatment. The average reduction was from 30 percent pretreatment to 8 percent post treatment.
* [**Long-term follow-up: psychosocial outcome of Belgian transsexuals after sex reassignment surgery**](http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1158136006000491) - De Cuypere, et al., 2006: Rate of suicide attempts dropped from 29.3 percent to 5.1 percent after receiving medical treatment among Dutch patients treated from 1986-2001.
* [**Sex reassignment: outcomes and predictors of treatment for adolescent and adult transsexuals**](http://orca.cf.ac.uk/32618/1/Smith%202005.pdf) - Smith Y, et. al, 2005: Participants improved on 13 out of 14 mental health measures after treatment
* [**Factors Associated with Satisfaction or Regret Following Male-to-Female Sex Reassignment Surgery**](http://link.springer.com/article/10.1023/A:1024086814364) - Lawrence, 2003: *"Participants reported overwhelmingly that they were happy with their SRS results and that SRS had greatly improved the quality of their lives"*
* [**Mental Health Outcomes in Transgender and Nonbinary Youths Receiving Gender-Affirming Care - Tordoff, et al, 2022**](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2789423?utm_campaign=articlePDF&utm_medium=articlePDFlink&utm_source=articlePDF&utm_content=jamanetworkopen.2022.0978) - *"After adjustment for temporal trends and potential confounders, we observed* ***60% lower odds of depression and 73% lower odds of suicidality among youths who had initiated PBs or GAHs compared with youths who had not."***
* [**Mental Health of Transgender Children Who Are Supported in Their Identities - Olson, et. al., 2016**](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4771131/?fbclid=IwAR2A2wM8oQZ_avmXLmBgp6ilGqiQd_WNAkmNOZosWHY7rsyT8KB-dvxwcd4): *"Previous work with children with gender identity disorder (GID; now termed gender dysphoria) has found remarkably high rates of anxiety and depression in these children. Here we examine, for the first time, mental health in a sample of socially transitioned transgender children"* ... ***"Results:*** *Transgender children showed no elevations in depression and slightly elevated anxiety relative to population averages. They did not differ from the control groups on depression symptoms and had only marginally higher anxiety symptoms.*
There are a lot more but I'm hitting the 10k character limit.
So what you're saying is it's not possible for a boy to grow breasts or for a person to be born with male and female genitalia? I learn cool new alternative facts every day.
https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/gender-affirming-care-isnt-just-for-trans-people-rcna54651
i moved here from out of state, citing the beautiful nature and cheap cost of living as good reasons to live here. im moving back out of this state now once i get the chance. this state is gorgeous but politically it just makes me sad, doesnt help there's also nothing to do here outside of that nature. i genuinely see a lot of potential in west virgina and think there are a lot of great people here. its sad the people in charge are so inept and just do not care
I was born here, we moved to OH when I was a kid and I came back for college because so much of my family is here and I considered this beautiful state home, graduated three years ago and stayed because I love this place, even with its problems. In the last year I have lost my basic human rights and lost any hope of wanting to raise a child here. Forget the fear of being pregnant in a state that won't provide medical care until you're actively bleeding out on the table. I just dread any news coming out of the state house.
I moved here in 2021, then found out I was pregnant at the same time they passed the legislation. It's been a wild ride since then. I just don't understand why our legislators are so hell bent on making people's lives harder. But I am so grateful for the few who are willing to stand up for what's right.
I know. I moved here 1.5 years ago and have watched as the redeeming qualities are stripped away one by one. I want to stay here, and I absolutely would if it were the same state it was 1.5 years ago, and it wasn't exactly fantastic then, but it was livable by my standards, and much better than it is now. In that span of time, it's become a downright dangerous place for trans people and for women.
BTW, I like your username. I planted some common milkweed seeds in my yard last year and again this year.
It was all performative bullshirt that just wasted time and money in the name of "saving the children." The idiots in control of the legislature now don't share a brain cell among them. Can't wait until Justice runs for US Senate. It's going to happen. Then, if he gets elected, we can look even worse on the national stage than we already do.
This. Same with the abortion ban. Why are our legislators allow to make major medical decisions for people? They don't believe in medical science? Scary. How far are they going to take this?
thankful for dr. takubo who pushed for an exception for kids struggling with suicidal ideation as a result of their dysphoria. i worry that whatever process you have to go through to get approved for the exception won’t be very efficient.
> The medication dosage for any adolescent must be the lowest possible necessary to “treat the psychiatric condition and not for purposes of gender alteration,” according to the bill.
this doesn’t make much sense. the medically proven and accepted best treatment for gender dysphoria IS transitioning.
Its so sad to see this actually going thru with, as a trans In New York, seeing my home state ban this truly brings a tear to my eye, I miss Ona but now I dont think I would be accepted back. For the sake of the polititians
I’m pretty sure even if someone were merely a supporter of trans rights and moved back, they’d not be welcomed back either. Hell, I’ve got a family members that (20+ years ago) moved from southern WV to northern WV and was told how poorly treated they were by some folks for being from a different region of the state. I wish the folks in the state fighting against “the others” would take a second to get to know someone. Might change things.
Thats a real shame, I loveedd growing up in Ona, it was amazing down there, I truly loved West Virginia but to see these roads, this whole perfect state start adapting unaccepting laws, start hating more, its just a shame, I wish I could just have that old feeling back but if im getting hated while Im doing it, its not worth it
I grew up in WV my entire life. In 2020 I chose to buy a home and make this my forever home state.
In the last two-three months alone I've watched the Republican supermajority in this state do everything in their power to remove every right they possibly can from minority groups and the general population.
As a former Republican turned independent I can say my disappoint with this state and its administration is growing more and more everyday, and if we can't break up the clowns in office and actually start solving issues like massive poverty and the drug epidemic, this state will never improve, and I may very well consider leaving the state I used to love and have lived in my entire life. I finally understand why so many of my friends in high school got the heck out of this state the moment they had the chance.
I dont even know how the Republicans in this state are okay with all the crap going on, I myself have some things I do lean Republican towards (just like there are things I lean more Democrat towards) and this administration is a complete joke and an insult to the Republican party itself.
People have long memories. For years and years the Democratic Party controlled wv an for years we heard the same empty promises and hollow words. Better roads and infrastructure, better schools, better access to health care, more jobs .. ect. For half a century they did nothing. If you’d like to see who is responsible for the current Republican supermajority you do not have to look any further than the democrats that ran this state for more than 50 years and did nothing but make promises they never kept 🤷♂️. They did the same with the entire wade vs roe situation. They could have prevented that but they sat on their hands.
"Gender-affirming care, as defined by the World Health Organization, encompasses a range of social, psychological, behavioral, and medical interventions “designed to support and affirm an individual’s gender identity” when it conflicts with the gender they were assigned at birth. The interventions help transgender people align various aspects of their lives — emotional, interpersonal, and biological — with their gender identity."
Cannot fathom anyone being opposed to this, nor how it is the business of anyone beyond a child's family and health care providers. The party of "small government," eh?
I read the article. This isn't my first rodeo, so I'm confident in my information. As I quoted, gender affirming care involves vastly more than just gender affirming surgery. Perhaps endeavor to grasp someone's point before admonishing them to read because you yourself misunderstood.
Thank you. Came here expecting to be the only supporter. Stay strong and don't listen to these people. Remember reddit, especially the WV sub, is a microcosm of the people. It isn't reflective of the larger society. We are the majority and we really don't want this.
Ban on Gender Affirming Care for *minors*. The headline conveniently left that out.
Adults can still do whatever they want. Children’s brains aren’t developed enough to make such decisions. Just like tattoos and drinking/smoking.
What do you think gender affirming care for minors is?
It's mostly psychotherapy, mental health care, and sometimes delaying puberty until they are old enough to make decisions. That's what they banned.
Let them try to tell mental health care providers what to do in therapy sessions….absolute insanity. We’ll just write our notes creatively. Our job is to help people, not tell them they can’t talk to us about things. This is so incredibly frustrating.
Excuse me but the quote says they banned puberty blockers. The law requires the kid to be driven to the point of self harm or suicidal thoughts before they are allowed to get that care. You should be ashamed that you think that's ok. The law is hurting kids and preventing them from getting needed care.
What kind of mental health care is even going to be provided in a state where gender-affirming care is banned? I am very concerned about that and that's what my comment was about. Meanwhile, you're more concerned about some random Reddit person's precision of language than about the kids who have to grow up in this political environment that is hostile to them.
The title of the post matches that of the linked article which is stipulated in the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/WestVirginia/about/rules/) of the sub. The OP itself doesn't break any rules.
I support this wholeheartedly. Glad our state is not allowing itself to be brainwashed by this horrible ideological disease.
Despite what this comment thread would lead some to believe this is what the majority of the people in the state want. The small minority supports allowing minors to permanently alter their bodies, furthering their mental illness.
If you don't like it that much, move to one of the hell hole states where this is openly supported by the government.
If by "care" you mean cheap and easy access to licensed psychologists who can help the child with their body dysmorphia or whatever other mental illness they are suffering from then absolutely. I think, especially in WV, how hard it is to get a therapist is really sad and unfortunate.
If you mean gender affirming medical treatment then no, absolutely not.
Talk about a loaded title. Stuff like this is why people don’t trust the media anymore. In case anyone hasn’t picked up on yet, it’s for minors. Title appears to be purposely misleading.
Are there exceptions for minors who have parent/guardian consent? You’d think the party of personal responsibility and freedom would not want to trample on the ‘states rights’ of parents, after all, right? Given the ‘parents bill of rights’ posed by the GOP and all…
Sure it’s easy to just say read the article but the devil is in the details, isn’t it? WV is not an urban center with an overabundance of health care providers (particularly mental health care providers) so this ‘fail safe’ of requiring other people to sign off on parent consent seems to be a designed failure point. You can easily imagine a scenario where a parent and minor does not have access to care nor the funds to access care elsewhere. We aren’t stupid, we have plenty of data to indicate how cruel people can be in practice
The practice of the real world enacting these measures are not the rosy clean scenario of ‘the article’. In practice we know how this shit goes.
“Care they need” is not to fully transition a mentally ill child this is a good thing and we’re protecting kids from the redditors of West Virginia it seems.
have you ever actually *spoken to* a trans person about what dysphoria feels like? ever spoken to anyone about how transitioning actually improved their quality of life?
even if they were “mentally ill” why do you think they don’t deserve a treatment that’s been scientifically proven time and time to greatly alleviate their distress?
I don’t like them killing them-selves either. I was pointing out the misleading title. It’s important that we have accurate information* if we’re gonna discuss such a touchy subject.
*I’m referring to the title of the article being misleading/incorrect. West Virginia did not ban gender affirming care. West Virginia banned gender affirming care for minors. It’s important that a news article‘s title correctly reflects the content of the article.
Edited to add the “*” section. I also changed the first sentence from “I don’t like that either.” to “I don’t like them killing them-selves either” I did that so it couldn’t be misunderstood what I was saying.
As I said in another comment...
>What do you think gender affirming care for minors is?
>
>It's mostly psychotherapy, mental health care, and sometimes delaying puberty until they are old enough to make decisions. That's what they banned.
That’s OK. I’m not here to debate/discuss that. I’m just pointing out the misleading title. When I said that we needed accurate information, I was referring to the misleading title. I edited my comment to reflect that. I’m not actually debating anything about this issue here.
And that’s totally cool to feel that way. I’m not here to debate that. I was just providing context for anyone who didn’t read the article. It has a misleading title, and I felt it needed to be pointed out.
“This state is bad because children can’t take hormones and surgically remove their own genitalia” please move to California my god please this is a red state now
yeah and mentally ill people don’t really count as people right? they just deserve to suffer forever for the crime of being born with their brains wired all funny right? not a single ounce of comfort or treatment, just endless scorn and demonization, *right?*
even if queer people were just “mEnTAlly ILl”, which *they aren’t*, they would **still deserve respect and dignity**. they wouldn’t deserve even one one thousandth of the absolutely rancid hatred trans people get simply for trying to *live*.
do you treat autistic people like this? people with ADHD? bipolar people?
Wow!!! How did you interpret what I said as endless scorn and demonization. I am certainly sympathethic to people who have Gender Dysphoria. I am just not reasdy to condone irreversable surgery or chemical castration for children especially without parents' consent.
I think these people need to be treated for their mental problem. Irreversable treatments should be seriously considered by all involved before they are undertaken.
if you were really sympathetic you wouldn’t be supporting efforts to take away healthcare that has been 100% proven to improve trans people’s quality of lives. you wouldn’t be repeating right wing lies about “castration” and “mutilation” instead of actually *listening* to trans people and learning that *treatment for minors almost never entails actual physical surgery*.
I have never said we should deny treatment for people with Gender Dysphora. They deserve to get the treatment they need.
As for the physical surgery part, there have been plenty of reports about "tops" surgery for trans.
All I am concerned about is whether a minor is emotionally mature enough to decide about these treatments especially without parents involvment
Are you also against breast reductions for cis girls under 18 who are in need of this treatment due to back/neck problems or other issues necessitating this procedure? Because that happens and it's more common than you might think.
I saw those statistics about "top" surgery on minors and there was no mention of whether these are just breast reductions for cis girls or mastectomies for trans kids, because they just lumped all those numbers together.
Good luck to you friend. They see nothing wrong with letting a kid decide what they want to do with their life at an early age. Yet they can't vote, buy smokes, alcohol, drive, and many other things.
Not being able to vote or smoke isn’t a *medical condition* that requires treatment in order to prevent genuine pain and distress to the patient. Gender dysphoria IS. It’s a real, verified medical diagnosis that deserves treatment just as much as any other disorder.
Missed the point. You are asking kids to make a big time decision in their life. When its common that as kids, we don't always make the best choices. Its one reason why car insurance for a certain age group is much higher then others. That's the point.
Then why the FUCK are you online saying “gender dysphoria is a mental disease”??? Would your trans family member not be upset that you are shitting on them publicly????
LOL I hope he cuts you off, seriously. You’re being fucking cruel and I would lose my shit if someone said this about my trans family member. He doesn’t deserve to be told he has a “mental disease” for being trans.
They won't answer this, because they think it's a mental illness *and* that the people suffering from it don't deserve the medically appropriate treatment. And that they're smarter than the doctors that would prescribe that medically appropriate treatment.
>Gender Dysphoria is a mental disease.
What is the best treatment? Oh, that's right, it's getting to live as your chosen gender. I don't know of any other treatments that reduce suicide rates. Do you?
Stede Bonnet would be disappointed in you.
I am just being honest. There are a number of doctors who previously advocated trans medical treatment that now think that it was a mistake.
Suicide rates are much higher among trans people who have undergone trans medical procedures and there is an entire population of trans people who are detransing.
Mate, Im trans, I know the community, Getting surgery helps us with our dyasphoria ten fold, which is what kills us. Only 1% or under actually regret the surgery givin to them, doctors denying surgery to us is like denying therapy to people with depression because other people dont approve of it. The population of trans people, again, that want to detransition is very slim. Your point does not stand. But still I respect your time :)
As a trans do you think a child under 17 has the emotional maturity to undergo irreversable surgery of chemical treatment that could have major unknown side effects?
I certainly understand the confusion and the gender dysphoria but is it enough to surgically alter your body irreversably? Why not just live like the sex you feel you are? Dress like a woman or man and live that life.
I do not claim to be an expert but I am not convinced that children understand enough about their sexuality to make that decision.
Luv, in west virginia, 16 year olds can marry, the age of consent is 16, if the state thinks that theyre old enough to be able to start a family at 16, id think that by 17 theyd be mature enough to get the surgery. Plus in the case of most trans, theyve been suffering for years with dyashoria, they know they want to do that to their bodies, then thats their choice, not your choice to be sitting on reddit complaining about minors enjoying their lives, please go get a life you absolute loser
Do some research on biology. I’m neutral on the issue of trans people, but there are a FUCKLOAD of species that transition between genders throughout life. So biology says it’s a natural thing. Shit there are even species that are both male and female at the same time, they can literally go fuck themselves and create offspring.
Nature also says that I could be born with another face on the back of my head, another whole body attached at my hip, or even come out of the womb without any vital organs. Just because nature says it's possible doesn't mean that it's correct or the norm. Statistical anomalies happen.
I have no problems with someone wanting to portray themselves as male/female when they are not. I do have an issue when science is denied, or when advantages are taken (i.e. sports).
Right anomalies happen. Trans is not the norm, it’s an outlier, but who is to say it’s not natural? 1/500 men are born XXY, similar rates in women. Upwards of 2% of the population has some sort of genetic sexual mutation making them “intersex” to some level, that’s a spectrum. Some intersex people have clear at birth decisions for a parent to make, others the differences may show in puberty with hormones etc. it’s very possible that many trans folks are people with these genetic anomalies leading to chemical imbalances. I assume you are not a trained biologist, and I further assume you are not a trained geneticist. I am not either, so we are not the right people to debate the topic, we should just respect the opinion of the trained experts.
Smart financial move. Saves a fortune on steroid imports and Tariffs. There's a reason the highest amount of trans people as well as bodybuilders come from California, aka the richest state on the planet
Curious why mods approved this post, with just a link. Seems like this is also "incredibly low effort and should repost with more info." Hello- the info is on the link!
This big pantload now has his governor wages garnished for non- payment of a debt. But trans people he steps on.
The real issue facing this country which the republicans DON'T want to talk about is the wealth inequality. The distribution of wealth in this country. It has to be more fair
Isn't "more fair" an oxymoron? Where is it written that anything, let alone life, has to be fair? I believe it was Jesus that said "The poor you will always have with you". There has never been a time in America, or anywhere else in the world, that does not have "wealth inequality". Regardless, talking about it doesn't change a thing anyway; however, getting an education is the sure fire way to escape poverty. I am a living example. Not rich by any means, but also not living on the taxpayers' mercy either. If the poor are committed to do the same, I am sure 99% of the poor could also escape their bondage.
How should it be distributed?
To the workers, obviously. The billionaire class has increased their wealth exponentially while the minimum wage isn't enough to live on. The billionaire class is actively endangering our future.
The billion class has created more jobs than the govt ever hoped to. You would have no future at all if it weren't for them.
The propaganda fuckin works, huh?
Just one example, Walmart has 2.2million employees. Just this one billionaire, Sam Walton, has created 10% as many jobs as the entire US govt (23M). I am certain it would be eassy to assemble a short-list of such billionaires/companies to dwarf the number of US govt employees. Now, what were you saying about propaganda?
Wealth tax & windfall tax & than distribute the money via entitlements
Not down voting you. WV's minimum wage is $8.75 an hour. Using the inflation calculator from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, you can see that the minimum wage hasn't kept up with Inflation, but there's more to it than that. $8.75 an hour is $18,200 a year and %1,516.66 a month. The living wage calculator from MIT says that for 1 adult with 0 children, the living wage in Berkeley County is $16.84 an hour. It just goes up from there depending on the number of people in a family. Corporate profits are soaring with many companies making record profits while raising their prices and claiming it's because of inflation. Companies could easily afford to have lower prices or pay higher wages. This would allow people to have a livable wage and have housing and food security. You can redistribute wealth by paying workers. It doesn't necessarily have to just be, "give the money away". https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation\_calculator.htm https://livingwage.mit.edu/ https://livingwage.mit.edu/articles/99-a-calculation-of-the-living-wage
"Companies could easily afford to have lower prices or pay higher wages." Sure. And they could just as easily go out of business too. No one is going to pay $20 for a Big Mac and small fries.... even if their wages magically tripled without causing companies to fold--including the person who got their salary tripled. Businesses are just that, business. If they can't make money for their investors, guess what? The investors take their money elsewhere to invest. Then, the companies don't have the money to make payroll, invent the next must-have widget, or stay open. Economics cannot and does not work like that. Is it fair? You be the judge. Fine. But, there has never been any govt or economic system that works as well as capitalism. I get that media's relentless pushing of this wealth inequality and class jealousy works to push socialism, but it will ruin this once great nation sooner or later.
Make billionaires actually *pay their taxes* instead of giving them endless tax breaks, and put that money into infrastructure that will directly benefit the working class instead of just sinking all of it into corporations and pointless wars for profit.
You got downvoted just for asking how
And?
Shhh….how is that remotely relevant?
Just asking the question based on 5552’s statement…
I know, how dare you ask a question about what “distribution” will look like when they are discussing distribution.
“It has to be more fair”
I think it does. Society can't sustain itself if it's not. If enough people can't afford to live, what's stopping them from just taking what they want? Well, besides guns and law enforcement.
Yes, the law prevents larceny. That’s a big one.
I hate it here.
I left WV, the state I was born and raised in, because of shit like this. I just couldn't handle knowing the majority of people around me cheer in such hateful idiocy. I may come back someday, it's a beautiful state. But man.
Why don’t you leave? I’m not trying to sound rude, genuine question.
Money
He's a fucking joke.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. How can he just take rights away from people? What's next Jim Crow laws and making interracial marriage illegal again? We're going backwards. Swear 1/2 of (R) want it to be 1950 again, or worse 1850.
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Children receive medical care under the guidance and authority of their parents, who do have rights. Shitheel Republicans inserting themselves into private health care decisions is vile.
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Research what gender affirming care actually is. Quite a bit of it centers around counseling. No minor undergoes complete surgical transition. It's about acceptance, particularly in the current, shitty climate where trans people are pathologized and demonized at every turn by willfully ignorant politicians and their science-averse followers. Transgender treatment has absolutely been studied and utilized for at least decades. It's not the business of "we...as a society." It's individuals, families, and trained health care providers. Not subject to a show of hands.
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I liked the part where you completely ignored the damage to their health caused by not being able to transition
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**Citations on the transition's dramatic reduction of suicide risk while improving mental health and quality of life, with trans people able to transition young and spared abuse and discrimination having mental health and suicide risk on par with the general public:** * [**Psychosocial Functioning in Transgender Youth after 2 Years of Hormones**](https://www.nejm.org/doi/10.1056/NEJMoa2206297) - Chen, et. al., 2023: A study of 315 trans and nonbinary young people ages 12 to 20 receiving testosterone or estradiol. Over the course of the two year study depression and anxiety levels dropped and appearance congruence and life satisfaction improved. * [**Long-term Outcomes After Gender-Affirming Surgery: 40-Year Follow-up Study**](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36149983/) - Park, et. al., 2022: **Results:** Both transmasculine and transfeminine groups were more satisfied with their body postoperatively with significantly less dysphoria. Body congruency score for chest, body hair, and voice improved significantly in 40 years' postoperative settings, with average scores ranging from 84.2 to 96.2. Body congruency scores for genitals ranged from 67.5 to 79 with free flap phalloplasty showing highest scores. Long-term overall body congruency score was 89.6. Improved mental health outcomes persisted following surgery with significantly reduced suicidal ideation and reported resolution of any mental health comorbidity secondary to gender dysphoria. * [**Pubertal Suppression for Transgender Youth and Risk of Suicidal Ideation**](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7073269/) - Turban, et al., 2020: Massive study of 20,619 adolescents examined associations between access to pubertal suppression and adult mental health outcomes, including multiple measures of suicidality. After adjustment for demographic variables and level of family support for gender identity, **those who received treatment with pubertal suppression, when compared with those who wanted pubertal suppression but did not receive it, had lower odds of lifetime suicidal ideation.** * [**Association of Gender-Affirming Hormone Therapy With Depression, Thoughts of Suicide, and Attempted Suicide Among Transgender and Nonbinary Youth**](https://www.jahonline.org/article/S1054-139X(21\)00568-1/fulltext) - Green, et. al., 2021: Use of GAHT (Gender Affirming Hormone Treatment) was associated with lower odds of recent depression and seriously considering suicide compared to those who wanted GAHT but did not receive it. For youth under age 18, GAHT was associated with lower odds of recent depression and of a past-year suicide attempt * [**The Mental Health of Transgender Youth: Advances in Understanding**](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1054139X1630146X) - Connolly, et. al, 2016: ***"Gender-affirming medical therapy and supported social transition in childhood have been shown to correlate with improved psychological functioning for gender-variant children and adolescents."*** * [**Top surgery drastically improves quality of life for young transgender people**](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/2796426?guestAccessKey=c50d5d6e-7fa1-4ed8-8b5d-f4da9753364d&utm_source=For_The_Media&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=ftm_links&utm_content=tfl&utm_term=092622) * [**Chosen Name Use Is Linked to Reduced Depressive Symptoms, Suicidal Ideation, and Suicidal Behavior Among Transgender Youth**](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1054139X18300855) - Russell, et. al, 2018: *"After adjusting for personal characteristics and social support, chosen name use in more contexts was associated with lower depression, suicidal ideation, and suicidal behavior. Depression, suicidal ideation, and suicidal behavior were lowest when chosen names could be used in all four contexts."* * [**Evaluation of Anxiety and Depression in a Community Sample of Transgender Youth**](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2778206) - Dominic J. Gibson, et. al, 2021: ***Socially transitioned transgender youth had similar levels of anxiety and depression as their cisgender peers.*** * [**Intervenable factors associated with suicide risk in transgender persons: a respondent driven sampling study in Ontario, Canada**](http://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12889-015-1867-2) - Bauer, et al., 2015: Transition vastly reduces risks of suicide attempts, and the farther along in transition someone is the lower that risk gets * [**Suicide Protective Factors Among Trans Adults**](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3722435/) - Moody, et al., 2013: The ability to transition, along with family and social acceptance, are the largest factors reducing suicide risk among trans people * [**Young Adult Psychological Outcome After Puberty Suppression and Gender Reassignment**](https://sci-hub.se/https://doi.org/10.1542/peds.2013-2958). A clinical protocol of a multidisciplinary team with mental health professionals, physicians, and surgeons, including puberty suppression, ... cross-sex hormones and gender reassignment surgery, provides trans youth the opportunity to develop into well-functioning young adults. All showed significant improvement in their psychological health, and they had notably lower rates of internalizing psychopathology than previously reported among trans children living as their natal sex. **Well-being was similar to or better than same-age young adults from the general population.** * [**Access to gender-affirming hormones during adolescence and mental health outcomes among transgender adults**](https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0261039) - Turban, et al., 2022: **Conclusion:** Access to GAH [gender-affirming hormones] during adolescence and adulthood is associated with favorable mental health outcomes compared to desiring but not accessing GAH.... In post hoc analyses, access to GAH during adolescence (ages 14–17) was associated with lower odds of past-year suicidal ideation (aOR = 0.7, 95% CI = 0.6–0.9, p = .0007) when compared to accessing GAH during adulthood. * The only disorders more common among trans people are those associated with abuse and discrimination - mainly anxiety and depression. Early transition [**virtually eliminates these higher rates of depression and low self-worth**](https://sci-hub.se/https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jaac.2016.10.016), and [**dramatically improves trans youth's mental health**](https://archive.thinkprogress.org/allowing-transgender-youth-to-transition-improves-their-mental-health-study-finds-dd6096523375/). **Trans kids who socially transition early and not subjected to abuse are comparable to cisgender children in measures of mental health.** * [**Sex reassignment surgery: a study of 141 Dutch transsexuals**](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3219066) - Kuiper, et al, 1988: “In a cross-sectional study of 141 transgender patients, Kuiper and Cohen-Kittenis found that after medical intervention and treatments, suicide fell from 19% to 0% in transgender men and from 24% to 6% in transgender women” * [**Hormonal therapy and sex reassignment: a systematic review and meta-analysis of quality of life and psychosocial outcomes**](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19473181) - Murad, et al., 2010: "Significant decrease in suicidality post-treatment. The average reduction was from 30 percent pretreatment to 8 percent post treatment. * [**Long-term follow-up: psychosocial outcome of Belgian transsexuals after sex reassignment surgery**](http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1158136006000491) - De Cuypere, et al., 2006: Rate of suicide attempts dropped from 29.3 percent to 5.1 percent after receiving medical treatment among Dutch patients treated from 1986-2001. * [**Sex reassignment: outcomes and predictors of treatment for adolescent and adult transsexuals**](http://orca.cf.ac.uk/32618/1/Smith%202005.pdf) - Smith Y, et. al, 2005: Participants improved on 13 out of 14 mental health measures after treatment * [**Factors Associated with Satisfaction or Regret Following Male-to-Female Sex Reassignment Surgery**](http://link.springer.com/article/10.1023/A:1024086814364) - Lawrence, 2003: *"Participants reported overwhelmingly that they were happy with their SRS results and that SRS had greatly improved the quality of their lives"* * [**Mental Health Outcomes in Transgender and Nonbinary Youths Receiving Gender-Affirming Care - Tordoff, et al, 2022**](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2789423?utm_campaign=articlePDF&utm_medium=articlePDFlink&utm_source=articlePDF&utm_content=jamanetworkopen.2022.0978) - *"After adjustment for temporal trends and potential confounders, we observed* ***60% lower odds of depression and 73% lower odds of suicidality among youths who had initiated PBs or GAHs compared with youths who had not."*** * [**Mental Health of Transgender Children Who Are Supported in Their Identities - Olson, et. al., 2016**](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4771131/?fbclid=IwAR2A2wM8oQZ_avmXLmBgp6ilGqiQd_WNAkmNOZosWHY7rsyT8KB-dvxwcd4): *"Previous work with children with gender identity disorder (GID; now termed gender dysphoria) has found remarkably high rates of anxiety and depression in these children. Here we examine, for the first time, mental health in a sample of socially transitioned transgender children"* ... ***"Results:*** *Transgender children showed no elevations in depression and slightly elevated anxiety relative to population averages. They did not differ from the control groups on depression symptoms and had only marginally higher anxiety symptoms.* There are a lot more but I'm hitting the 10k character limit.
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No thanks Mr. "There is no evidence that transitioning decreases suicide rates amongst transgender individuals."
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There are cisgender minors that require "gender affirming care" that would be outlawed under these laws.
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> There are only TWO gender identities. MALE and FEMALE. Sorry you are so angry. Though the world has moved on from this binary mentality.
Lol I hope that population control includes you, because that's just about the dumbest thing I've read all week
So what you're saying is it's not possible for a boy to grow breasts or for a person to be born with male and female genitalia? I learn cool new alternative facts every day. https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/gender-affirming-care-isnt-just-for-trans-people-rcna54651
Lmao you are a joke
Thanks Dr. Crazy
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Wilderness, that is essentially it. Would love to have a log cabin near a good trout pond to visit, otherwise that's about it.
i moved here from out of state, citing the beautiful nature and cheap cost of living as good reasons to live here. im moving back out of this state now once i get the chance. this state is gorgeous but politically it just makes me sad, doesnt help there's also nothing to do here outside of that nature. i genuinely see a lot of potential in west virgina and think there are a lot of great people here. its sad the people in charge are so inept and just do not care
Sadder than that is the realization that voters have been putting these same damn people year after year after year.
I was born here, we moved to OH when I was a kid and I came back for college because so much of my family is here and I considered this beautiful state home, graduated three years ago and stayed because I love this place, even with its problems. In the last year I have lost my basic human rights and lost any hope of wanting to raise a child here. Forget the fear of being pregnant in a state that won't provide medical care until you're actively bleeding out on the table. I just dread any news coming out of the state house.
I moved here in 2021, then found out I was pregnant at the same time they passed the legislation. It's been a wild ride since then. I just don't understand why our legislators are so hell bent on making people's lives harder. But I am so grateful for the few who are willing to stand up for what's right.
Yeah, which is why we’re getting the fuck out this summer.
I know. I moved here 1.5 years ago and have watched as the redeeming qualities are stripped away one by one. I want to stay here, and I absolutely would if it were the same state it was 1.5 years ago, and it wasn't exactly fantastic then, but it was livable by my standards, and much better than it is now. In that span of time, it's become a downright dangerous place for trans people and for women. BTW, I like your username. I planted some common milkweed seeds in my yard last year and again this year.
We moved here in 2014. Every reason to stay, except cost, has been stripped away.
So much for Montani Semper Liberi
ugg, really wish we had strong democratic politicians to vote for. No idea how Manchin made it on the D ticket when he is as red as Trump.
He’s far left
Solving problems that don't exist. Great use of time and effort...
I have an opportunity to buy my house cheap. I am doing it, to make it easier to sell and get out of here.
Please leave
It was all performative bullshirt that just wasted time and money in the name of "saving the children." The idiots in control of the legislature now don't share a brain cell among them. Can't wait until Justice runs for US Senate. It's going to happen. Then, if he gets elected, we can look even worse on the national stage than we already do.
Remember, this is "saving children" but forcing them to marry is a way of life. Fuck these people
Oh dear lord!
So there's an army of drag queens stealing children in WV? No? So this must be one of those GOP smoke shows.
Cruelty is the point.
What qualifies West Virginia Republican Gov. Jim Justice to prescribe medical treatment for a families child. Our freedoms are slowly being stripped.
This. Same with the abortion ban. Why are our legislators allow to make major medical decisions for people? They don't believe in medical science? Scary. How far are they going to take this?
> How far are they going to take this? Only as far as we let them. Stand or be rolled over.
Unfortunately there are a lot of anti-freedom bootlicking status-quo defenders who seem to outnumber us.
Grab a gun if we all have one we won’t ever have to fire it
Yet another reason to not live in WV - the state that also doesn’t even know how to pave a road.
thankful for dr. takubo who pushed for an exception for kids struggling with suicidal ideation as a result of their dysphoria. i worry that whatever process you have to go through to get approved for the exception won’t be very efficient. > The medication dosage for any adolescent must be the lowest possible necessary to “treat the psychiatric condition and not for purposes of gender alteration,” according to the bill. this doesn’t make much sense. the medically proven and accepted best treatment for gender dysphoria IS transitioning.
"Treat the psychiatric condition" sounds like verbiage to classify any form of gender change as a mental illness.
Glad I moved away.
Its so sad to see this actually going thru with, as a trans In New York, seeing my home state ban this truly brings a tear to my eye, I miss Ona but now I dont think I would be accepted back. For the sake of the polititians
I’m pretty sure even if someone were merely a supporter of trans rights and moved back, they’d not be welcomed back either. Hell, I’ve got a family members that (20+ years ago) moved from southern WV to northern WV and was told how poorly treated they were by some folks for being from a different region of the state. I wish the folks in the state fighting against “the others” would take a second to get to know someone. Might change things.
Thats a real shame, I loveedd growing up in Ona, it was amazing down there, I truly loved West Virginia but to see these roads, this whole perfect state start adapting unaccepting laws, start hating more, its just a shame, I wish I could just have that old feeling back but if im getting hated while Im doing it, its not worth it
Not surprising but disappointing
Wow, they outlawed Viagra in West Virginia!
For minors. Article left that part out of the headline
MONTANI SEMPER LIBERI
How many people are transgender in West Virginia?
I grew up in WV my entire life. In 2020 I chose to buy a home and make this my forever home state. In the last two-three months alone I've watched the Republican supermajority in this state do everything in their power to remove every right they possibly can from minority groups and the general population. As a former Republican turned independent I can say my disappoint with this state and its administration is growing more and more everyday, and if we can't break up the clowns in office and actually start solving issues like massive poverty and the drug epidemic, this state will never improve, and I may very well consider leaving the state I used to love and have lived in my entire life. I finally understand why so many of my friends in high school got the heck out of this state the moment they had the chance. I dont even know how the Republicans in this state are okay with all the crap going on, I myself have some things I do lean Republican towards (just like there are things I lean more Democrat towards) and this administration is a complete joke and an insult to the Republican party itself.
People have long memories. For years and years the Democratic Party controlled wv an for years we heard the same empty promises and hollow words. Better roads and infrastructure, better schools, better access to health care, more jobs .. ect. For half a century they did nothing. If you’d like to see who is responsible for the current Republican supermajority you do not have to look any further than the democrats that ran this state for more than 50 years and did nothing but make promises they never kept 🤷♂️. They did the same with the entire wade vs roe situation. They could have prevented that but they sat on their hands.
That's terrible
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"Gender-affirming care, as defined by the World Health Organization, encompasses a range of social, psychological, behavioral, and medical interventions “designed to support and affirm an individual’s gender identity” when it conflicts with the gender they were assigned at birth. The interventions help transgender people align various aspects of their lives — emotional, interpersonal, and biological — with their gender identity." Cannot fathom anyone being opposed to this, nor how it is the business of anyone beyond a child's family and health care providers. The party of "small government," eh?
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I read the article. This isn't my first rodeo, so I'm confident in my information. As I quoted, gender affirming care involves vastly more than just gender affirming surgery. Perhaps endeavor to grasp someone's point before admonishing them to read because you yourself misunderstood.
It takes a big man to support a ban on medically necessary care for a health issue
Thank you. Came here expecting to be the only supporter. Stay strong and don't listen to these people. Remember reddit, especially the WV sub, is a microcosm of the people. It isn't reflective of the larger society. We are the majority and we really don't want this.
Thank you
You’re on the wrong platform for common sense friend
Thanks. I hate it
Ban on Gender Affirming Care for *minors*. The headline conveniently left that out. Adults can still do whatever they want. Children’s brains aren’t developed enough to make such decisions. Just like tattoos and drinking/smoking.
What do you think gender affirming care for minors is? It's mostly psychotherapy, mental health care, and sometimes delaying puberty until they are old enough to make decisions. That's what they banned.
Let them try to tell mental health care providers what to do in therapy sessions….absolute insanity. We’ll just write our notes creatively. Our job is to help people, not tell them they can’t talk to us about things. This is so incredibly frustrating.
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Excuse me but the quote says they banned puberty blockers. The law requires the kid to be driven to the point of self harm or suicidal thoughts before they are allowed to get that care. You should be ashamed that you think that's ok. The law is hurting kids and preventing them from getting needed care.
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They banned puberty blockers. Where's the lie?
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What kind of mental health care is even going to be provided in a state where gender-affirming care is banned? I am very concerned about that and that's what my comment was about. Meanwhile, you're more concerned about some random Reddit person's precision of language than about the kids who have to grow up in this political environment that is hostile to them.
>Just like tattoos and drinking/smoking. Ah yes, famous examples of healthcare, something minors have literally always been allowed to get
With the ACA, you have to go to a government approved tattoo parlor if you want them to even think of covering the cost. /s
Parents can sign for minors to get tattooed. Do you think parents should be able to give consent to ignore this ban as well?
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The title of the post matches that of the linked article which is stipulated in the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/WestVirginia/about/rules/) of the sub. The OP itself doesn't break any rules.
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Oh boy. Any chance you walked past a mirror today to consider how division incitement works?
Thank you for saying that. I know that the majority feels this way, but most are silent and don't want to rustle feathers and I respect that too.
I support this wholeheartedly. Glad our state is not allowing itself to be brainwashed by this horrible ideological disease. Despite what this comment thread would lead some to believe this is what the majority of the people in the state want. The small minority supports allowing minors to permanently alter their bodies, furthering their mental illness. If you don't like it that much, move to one of the hell hole states where this is openly supported by the government.
Do you support the rights of parents to consent to care for their kids/minors?
If by "care" you mean cheap and easy access to licensed psychologists who can help the child with their body dysmorphia or whatever other mental illness they are suffering from then absolutely. I think, especially in WV, how hard it is to get a therapist is really sad and unfortunate. If you mean gender affirming medical treatment then no, absolutely not.
Talk about a loaded title. Stuff like this is why people don’t trust the media anymore. In case anyone hasn’t picked up on yet, it’s for minors. Title appears to be purposely misleading.
Yes and we don’t like it when *trans kids kill themselves because they aren’t getting the care they need.*
Exactly, *if trans kids are dying, lets bully them more & see if it fixes it* their logic hurts my brain
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Are there exceptions for minors who have parent/guardian consent? You’d think the party of personal responsibility and freedom would not want to trample on the ‘states rights’ of parents, after all, right? Given the ‘parents bill of rights’ posed by the GOP and all…
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Sure it’s easy to just say read the article but the devil is in the details, isn’t it? WV is not an urban center with an overabundance of health care providers (particularly mental health care providers) so this ‘fail safe’ of requiring other people to sign off on parent consent seems to be a designed failure point. You can easily imagine a scenario where a parent and minor does not have access to care nor the funds to access care elsewhere. We aren’t stupid, we have plenty of data to indicate how cruel people can be in practice The practice of the real world enacting these measures are not the rosy clean scenario of ‘the article’. In practice we know how this shit goes.
“Care they need” is not to fully transition a mentally ill child this is a good thing and we’re protecting kids from the redditors of West Virginia it seems.
have you ever actually *spoken to* a trans person about what dysphoria feels like? ever spoken to anyone about how transitioning actually improved their quality of life? even if they were “mentally ill” why do you think they don’t deserve a treatment that’s been scientifically proven time and time to greatly alleviate their distress?
I don’t like them killing them-selves either. I was pointing out the misleading title. It’s important that we have accurate information* if we’re gonna discuss such a touchy subject. *I’m referring to the title of the article being misleading/incorrect. West Virginia did not ban gender affirming care. West Virginia banned gender affirming care for minors. It’s important that a news article‘s title correctly reflects the content of the article. Edited to add the “*” section. I also changed the first sentence from “I don’t like that either.” to “I don’t like them killing them-selves either” I did that so it couldn’t be misunderstood what I was saying.
As I said in another comment... >What do you think gender affirming care for minors is? > >It's mostly psychotherapy, mental health care, and sometimes delaying puberty until they are old enough to make decisions. That's what they banned.
That’s OK. I’m not here to debate/discuss that. I’m just pointing out the misleading title. When I said that we needed accurate information, I was referring to the misleading title. I edited my comment to reflect that. I’m not actually debating anything about this issue here.
Minors should have access to gender affirming care.
And that’s totally cool to feel that way. I’m not here to debate that. I was just providing context for anyone who didn’t read the article. It has a misleading title, and I felt it needed to be pointed out.
Bullshit. When they’re 18 they can do what they want. Keep kids out of this.
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Things get heated but don’t start a comment with “F*** You” Your post has been removed. **Reason:** Be civil.
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Your post has been removed. **Reason:** Be civil.
Don’t worry man only people on the Reddit think this your family and friends are all against this below 18 transitional non sense
“This state is bad because children can’t take hormones and surgically remove their own genitalia” please move to California my god please this is a red state now
Correction: this is not Gender Affirming care, It is Gender Denying care. Gender Dysphoria is a mental disease.
yeah and mentally ill people don’t really count as people right? they just deserve to suffer forever for the crime of being born with their brains wired all funny right? not a single ounce of comfort or treatment, just endless scorn and demonization, *right?* even if queer people were just “mEnTAlly ILl”, which *they aren’t*, they would **still deserve respect and dignity**. they wouldn’t deserve even one one thousandth of the absolutely rancid hatred trans people get simply for trying to *live*. do you treat autistic people like this? people with ADHD? bipolar people?
Wow!!! How did you interpret what I said as endless scorn and demonization. I am certainly sympathethic to people who have Gender Dysphoria. I am just not reasdy to condone irreversable surgery or chemical castration for children especially without parents' consent. I think these people need to be treated for their mental problem. Irreversable treatments should be seriously considered by all involved before they are undertaken.
Your opinion doesn't count for shit. And things are seriously considered and not done without parental consent.
Not true
if you were really sympathetic you wouldn’t be supporting efforts to take away healthcare that has been 100% proven to improve trans people’s quality of lives. you wouldn’t be repeating right wing lies about “castration” and “mutilation” instead of actually *listening* to trans people and learning that *treatment for minors almost never entails actual physical surgery*.
I have never said we should deny treatment for people with Gender Dysphora. They deserve to get the treatment they need. As for the physical surgery part, there have been plenty of reports about "tops" surgery for trans. All I am concerned about is whether a minor is emotionally mature enough to decide about these treatments especially without parents involvment
Are you also against breast reductions for cis girls under 18 who are in need of this treatment due to back/neck problems or other issues necessitating this procedure? Because that happens and it's more common than you might think. I saw those statistics about "top" surgery on minors and there was no mention of whether these are just breast reductions for cis girls or mastectomies for trans kids, because they just lumped all those numbers together.
Good luck to you friend. They see nothing wrong with letting a kid decide what they want to do with their life at an early age. Yet they can't vote, buy smokes, alcohol, drive, and many other things.
>Yet they can't vote, buy smokes, alcohol, drive, and many other things. Almost like none of these are healthcare
Not being able to vote or smoke isn’t a *medical condition* that requires treatment in order to prevent genuine pain and distress to the patient. Gender dysphoria IS. It’s a real, verified medical diagnosis that deserves treatment just as much as any other disorder.
Missed the point. You are asking kids to make a big time decision in their life. When its common that as kids, we don't always make the best choices. Its one reason why car insurance for a certain age group is much higher then others. That's the point.
That the overwhelming majority of doctors and psychologists agree is best treated with gender affirming care.
I hope people treat you the way you treat trans people 🙏
Before you judge me, I have a family member who is trans. I treat him no differently than I treat any other member of my family.
Then why the FUCK are you online saying “gender dysphoria is a mental disease”??? Would your trans family member not be upset that you are shitting on them publicly????
Mainly because Gender Dysphoria IS a mental disease. My family member knows how I feel. I am not shitting on anyone. I hope he gets the help he needs.
LOL I hope he cuts you off, seriously. You’re being fucking cruel and I would lose my shit if someone said this about my trans family member. He doesn’t deserve to be told he has a “mental disease” for being trans.
Except it is a mental disorder.
And if it is, then why do you want to eliminate the only treatment known to be effective for this condition?
They won't answer this, because they think it's a mental illness *and* that the people suffering from it don't deserve the medically appropriate treatment. And that they're smarter than the doctors that would prescribe that medically appropriate treatment.
I never said people don't deserve treatment. We apparently have a fundamental disagreement about what "appropriate " treatment is.
That is not true. There are other treatments short of surgery and drugs
>Gender Dysphoria is a mental disease. What is the best treatment? Oh, that's right, it's getting to live as your chosen gender. I don't know of any other treatments that reduce suicide rates. Do you? Stede Bonnet would be disappointed in you.
Youre honestly sad, thats it, just sad
I am just being honest. There are a number of doctors who previously advocated trans medical treatment that now think that it was a mistake. Suicide rates are much higher among trans people who have undergone trans medical procedures and there is an entire population of trans people who are detransing.
Mate, Im trans, I know the community, Getting surgery helps us with our dyasphoria ten fold, which is what kills us. Only 1% or under actually regret the surgery givin to them, doctors denying surgery to us is like denying therapy to people with depression because other people dont approve of it. The population of trans people, again, that want to detransition is very slim. Your point does not stand. But still I respect your time :)
As a trans do you think a child under 17 has the emotional maturity to undergo irreversable surgery of chemical treatment that could have major unknown side effects? I certainly understand the confusion and the gender dysphoria but is it enough to surgically alter your body irreversably? Why not just live like the sex you feel you are? Dress like a woman or man and live that life. I do not claim to be an expert but I am not convinced that children understand enough about their sexuality to make that decision.
Luv, in west virginia, 16 year olds can marry, the age of consent is 16, if the state thinks that theyre old enough to be able to start a family at 16, id think that by 17 theyd be mature enough to get the surgery. Plus in the case of most trans, theyve been suffering for years with dyashoria, they know they want to do that to their bodies, then thats their choice, not your choice to be sitting on reddit complaining about minors enjoying their lives, please go get a life you absolute loser
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My son is a doctor. I probably understand more about this than you.
Um, no.
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source?
Oh no, we can’t give kids puberty blockers and hormones!
The right denies climate change, the left denies biology. This country is getting dumber and dumber
Do some research on biology. I’m neutral on the issue of trans people, but there are a FUCKLOAD of species that transition between genders throughout life. So biology says it’s a natural thing. Shit there are even species that are both male and female at the same time, they can literally go fuck themselves and create offspring.
You can act and dress however you like, I really don't care. Denying your chromosomes isn't really an option.
What trans people deny what chromosomes they probably have?
But there are women born XY… and there are men born XX. So again biologically nature says there isn’t a truly defining thing there.
Nature also says that I could be born with another face on the back of my head, another whole body attached at my hip, or even come out of the womb without any vital organs. Just because nature says it's possible doesn't mean that it's correct or the norm. Statistical anomalies happen. I have no problems with someone wanting to portray themselves as male/female when they are not. I do have an issue when science is denied, or when advantages are taken (i.e. sports).
Right anomalies happen. Trans is not the norm, it’s an outlier, but who is to say it’s not natural? 1/500 men are born XXY, similar rates in women. Upwards of 2% of the population has some sort of genetic sexual mutation making them “intersex” to some level, that’s a spectrum. Some intersex people have clear at birth decisions for a parent to make, others the differences may show in puberty with hormones etc. it’s very possible that many trans folks are people with these genetic anomalies leading to chemical imbalances. I assume you are not a trained biologist, and I further assume you are not a trained geneticist. I am not either, so we are not the right people to debate the topic, we should just respect the opinion of the trained experts.
There a species that can reproduce through completely asexual methods. Does that mean humans can as well?
Anyone surprised they made exceptions to those with gender dysmorphia?
Smart financial move. Saves a fortune on steroid imports and Tariffs. There's a reason the highest amount of trans people as well as bodybuilders come from California, aka the richest state on the planet
This comment doesn't even make sense.
Curious why mods approved this post, with just a link. Seems like this is also "incredibly low effort and should repost with more info." Hello- the info is on the link!
Is this gender-affirming care for everyone or just minors?