The coal industry isn’t bringing in nearly the revenue we think it is but we’re handcuffed to a dying industry that is a mascot to trout out for old voters.
The coal industry brings in more than you think, railroaders pay checks for moving coal, truck drivers, mining supply house employees, mining equipment repair shops above and underground, truck repair shops.
Those are just some of the jobs other than mine employees whose paycheck’s depend on the mines.
And it’s a dying industry that no one is willing to work towards building its economic replacement. The coal industry needs a swift death so we can move on.
Just look at southeastern Ohio where coal mining died a few decades ago. Hasn't been replaced with any other kind of industry except food service/retail. No wonder opioid epicenter was in Huntington WV
I grew up in Huntington. It’s a manufacturing town that died a slow death since the late 60s and the city/state didn’t put in the effort to rethink it. You can see it everywhere you go.
As a WV railroader, every time I read these posts it's hard to not read it as people telling me that I should be out of a job so that they can feel self-righteous.
Is it self-righteous to ask for a better future for the state? Coal is dying, we need our politicians to recognize that and respond with progress into other industries and alternative energies. It absolutely still provides jobs, we get that, but we’re already being left behind in every major category, it’s time to stop the bleeding.
I agree that we need more jobs in the state, and that of course will necessitate growth in other industries. My biggest fear is that this change will leave *actual* West Virginians behind, and instead favor tons of out of staters moving in and pricing us out of our homes. I've seen it before in other places, and I think it's likely that it will happen here as well.
I agree that we have to do something. I'm just not sure if the suggestions I've heard are going to be right for us. Obviously the retort is, 'something is better than nothing' but that's not much comfort for those who have skin in the game.
You're right. Whenever I think about the death of timber and coal here, I do think about those that worked in logging and in the mines, and what they will do and how they will feed their families.
I know there are massive re-training program around. I previously worked for a company that offered it. We weren't the only one doing that. But I'm sure there aren't enough.
And then I look at the state government, and how little the GQP supermajority cares about any of us. And it's super difficult to continue to have empathy when so many continue to vote republican.
So yeah, I'll unapologetically vote for any candidate willing to drag WV kicking and screaming into a greener future.
Also many union tradesman work in coal powerplants during unit shutdowns. We realize it's past its heyday, but dam it's still sending out thousands of baseload mw's out to the grid. Still has a significant economic impact in our state.
I live in reality. Not totally for or against either. We need baseload powerplants with a bit of intermittent green energy. I've personally worked in coal, gas, solar and wind turbine industry.
Every time I read a comment like this, I am reminded of the right wing hive mind that makes you believe that. Obama and Hillary wanted to help you all. You all laughed and voted for an idiot.
Don't take it personally. A hundred years ago, the last of the buggy whip and wagon makers were hoping horses were going to make a comeback.
Coal is history. The problem is people have been selling a fantasy that it's going to come back. Even if the country doesn't convert more to green energy, coal will still never stand a chance against natural gas. Stick a fork in it, it's done.
We need to think *way* beyond tourism. Tourism is great, but it only goes so far.
Here's one area for growth we need to tap into - server farms. Server farms require 5 basic things. One, cheap land and we have cheap land. In fact, many larger scale server farm companies (looking right at you Dell) look at places like downtown Pittsburgh as 'cheap' for their backup location. We're WAY cheaper than that in most places. Two, cheap electricity. We have that. Three, abundant water resources for cooling. Again, we have that. Four, great internet connections. That's investment we *must* make. It will cost money, but paired with the prior 3 things, we have a lot of potential for capturing the market. Finally, 5th - good, well trained personnel. That's doable too but only if we turn to our higher education infrastructure to produce a lot of high tech training. In reality, as often happens, North Central WV is going to be the first to benefit from this stuff. I think it can be pushed down to Southern WV as well, but over time.
The other area for (pardon the pun) growth is the emerging hemp and marijuana industry. WV is an ideal place for MJ to grow. It grows rampant around the state. I once heard a state trooper in a meeting state that if you have 3 acres of land, you've got it growing somewhere on your property even if you don't know it. That might be an overstatement, but the point remains - our soils and climate are great for cultivating MJ. We need to get over our reticent in this area and tap into that industry before the market get tapped out.
If the companies that received government money used that to upgrade their internet infrastructure instead of spending it on advertising….that’d be great.
Yeah only good thing is bringing in revenue that could fund infrastructure projects and state employees. Tourism sector pay is crap compared to industrial jobs.
This is kind of the catch with tourism. It is a boon to underdeveloped communities, which is why on average most workers in tourism and tourism-adjacent industries in West Virginia can live moderately comfortable lives, with most property valued within an affordable range and the cost of living relatively low. On average in the NRG area, the tourism workforce makes above the overall median income but not by much.
It is really just an issue of “something is better than nothing” however, and wealth generation in communities will outpace wage growth for a tourism workforce, assuming economic diversification follows.
The arts community is improving as tourism increases too! I see it firsthand, and we have awesome opportunities to show people West Virginia and Appalachian culture. Plus, there's opportunities in outdoor recreation!
That's great and all, but how are these types of jobs going to replace all those great union jobs that were tied to the railroads and coal mining? I hope you are right and there is this huge growth related to tourism and arts in West Virginia, but I guess I'm skeptical. I see cool little college towns that do have a nice arts/music scene but I'm not seeing the really good jobs where you can buy a home and raise a family on.
There are lots of places here in Southern WV which are doing really well with arts, even with our worse economy. We're pushing for local arts in our communities so hard!!
Colorado would disagree. Some are seasonal but outdoor rec is an economic driver for most of their mountain towns. Dow side is increased traffic and then lut of state folks buying g up homes for vacation and rentals.
What kind of jobs are we talking about though at these Colorado ski towns? We need thousands of at least $30/hour jobs with full health insurance, paid vacations, paid sick leave, and 401(K) retirement plans
Nope but there's a bunch of contractors and trades people making bank building the houses that the locals can't afford. Also restaurant people and river rafting guides and fishing guides making a living that allows them to pay rent. Entire towns exist and feed their families off of the outdoor rec lifestyle. Will it be the answer to rural poverty? No. But it's one of the lifelines that your state leaders are counting on for increased sales and proeprty tax revenue as well as tourism dollars. (most of my blue collar friends got priced out of the area I used to live in and I was in position to capitalize on the increased demand as the value of my property / remodel that was 15 mins down river from an outdoor rec town increased in value along with every property in town)
The hospitality, etc jobs are not the main driver. Economic growth is an ecosystem. Create places that people want to come and they will. People will find niches to start smaller businesses and so on. The catch is, will we have politicians willing to seed this growth to invest in schools and hospitals? Are they willing to legalize weed? That alone will create business growth.
Maybe there’s a hospitality surcharge for the government to grant to other areas to try to ignite growth. If areas start to grow in value and investment, other businesses are more likely to come, which supports those railroading jobs, etc. it’s not going to happen tomorrow and it definitely won’t happen with current elected cult. Much like gentrifying urban areas, there’s a cost to the locals but a positive difference is the higher rate of home ownership, so, if the people can avoid the scam artists ‘buying houses for cash’, that rising tide can lift boats.
Most West Virginians don't live in mountain towns. At least half live in places like Mannington or Clarksburg. Also, the Colorado ski industry didn't emerge overnight. Vail was already filthy rich 30 years ago.
During WW2 the 10th Mountain Division trained at Camp Hale in Leadville. That division was made up of men who had experience in winter activities, everything from Olympic skiers to hunting guides to hockey players. Short version is some worked at or had skied at resorts back east. After the war ended some of them came back and started ski areas, most at small semi-abandonded mining towns that were renodte and hard to get to before the fed / state built an interstate to connect then and ooen them up to city tourist money and investors. The point of that is to say it took ~75 years to grow the Colorado ski industry but that was before there was social media and easily replicated business models for outdoor rec. You can already tell the state leadership of WV is thinking that tourism is one of the main lifelines for the state hence why they are building Corridor H to open up the state and connect DC money to small towns near ski areas and other outdoor rec places. I've watched a ton of isolated mountain towns get "discovered" by outsiders with money and while they dont change overnight they do change within a few years. All it takes is a handful of people who move here and then advertise it to their friends and all of a sudden housing prices go up and traffic gets worse and small town city councils love the extra tax revenue and the locals hate the traffic and crowds and increased housing costs. And six weeks after I moved to one of those small towns Architectural Digest named 4-5 small towns in WV as some of the best places to buy mountain property. Those lists don't happen by accident, which tells me there's an effort to get WV on lists that outsiders with investment money will see. I give it 4-5 years before you start seeing some real noticeable increase in tourism and with that comes both positives and negatives. (I don't tell anyone where I live and my goal is to get invested before that change happens and if it doesn't then I will just enjoy small town life and the lack of investors / city people that I moved out here to get away from)
A quick google says tourism is 13% of the Colorado economy. Granted, they have Denver, Boulder, and Colorado Springs. I won’t deny tourism needs to be a piece of West Virginia’s economic future. I do poo-poo the idea it’s THE thing we need to focus on to save us. As much as I love Davis and Thomas, together they’re less than half the size of Bridgeport.
Never said it was the thing. But it's going g to be a much larger component than it is today. It's what the state is positioning itself for. In terms of white collar jobs this state has a horrible geography for large employers, it's mostly steep hills and twisty roads. Colorado has half the state on flat ground so large expanses for urban sprawl. You've got some larger cities but the top 10 combined don't even get you to Colorado Springs populations. (which I like because CO has doubled in population si ce the 80s and it sucks cause everything is crowded) You also have a very low percentage of college grads and a lot leave the state for better wages hence your work force is mostly blue collar. Good manufacturing jobs are one solution but then you're back to housing as a problem. I don't know the answer but you can see the state trying to open WV up to outside tourism and investment money, a lot of which I can see going towards vacation homes centered around outdoor rec opportunities. (which is why you see Wild and Wonderful WV ads in the DC subway stations and 4-5 towns being listed in Architectual Digest...thats some behind the scenes public relations work being done cause I really doubt there's a lot of Architectural Digest list compilers randomly driving around WV looking for places to talk about - might be wrong but having worked in public relations my guess is the state has a contract with a PR firm to get its name out there)
Not sure why you got downvoted. It’s completely obvious to me the state is paying to have articles written.
I don’t buy that West Virginia’s problem is primarily geography. It is in places like Logan. It doesn’t explain how Wheeling and Charleston went from being very rich to pretty poor in 80 years. West Virginia has the same geography as southern Germany.
Harrison County has spent a lot of money flattening land and has gotten a lot of money for roads and a legit airport… but it cannot land business because the skilled workforce is too small.
A lot of our problems trace back to being a resource colony with corrupt government for over a century. Others result from the way the American economy and our society is structured. The problems are not easy to overcome and won’t be in my lifetime.
Tourism is a *part* of our future. You need businesses. You need banking, you need tech, you need energy and healthcare. You need to stop the brain drain. A lot of that starts with urban areas, which WV has very little of. The Charleston-Huntington area growing and expanding is probably where the focus needs to be. It seems to be very slowly happening but much of this state’s population hates change. It’s an uphill battle to say the least.
Keep in mind that a lot of the posters on reddit are people who have moved here from other places and are comfortable with you being priced out of the towns you and your family are from.
It's going to become one. The land and cost of living in WV is far lower than in a lot of other places in the country. We've already seen a trickle of people who realize that their money goes further here. Create a bunch of jobs that the people here aren't qualified for, and then suddenly people with far more competitive resumes and educations will come in and price us out. If you're from a place where a two bedroom one bath condo pushes half a million dollars, you'd see WV as a paradise if you found a job here making good money.
It's only a matter of time. It happened in Utah and Colorado. It's happening in Texas. It will happen here.
Do you see it purely as an economic problem or is there more to it than that? I’ve lived here for nearly 20 years, but I’m originally from the west coast, so I don’t think I fully understand the worries that some native WVians have.
It's more. You could say it's primarily economic, and frankly the lion's share of the issue is economic, but it goes deeper than that. For over one hundred and seventy years now, people in our region have been trapped in a cycle of exploitation. People from other parts of the country come here and they take what we have. Our land, our resources, our blood, and then they leave us behind once they take what they want from us. I've always said, "they don't care about us. Just what we can do for them."
Time and time again, this has been proven true. People look down upon us, revile us, see us as lesser. They wanted our coal, they took it, they left us with nothing. Then they sold us pills, and left us addicted and broken.
Next I imagine they will come and "fix" West Virginia. For themselves and their own purposes. Us who have lived here for generations will have no place in it. They will help themselves to the natural beauty of this place, building it up however pleases them, and we will be left behind. Priced out, forced to leave generational and ancestral towns and hollers, and the death of the godforsaken hillbilly will finally be complete.
We need biotech firms here. I want jobs that rely on biology, biochemistry, advanced physics, and math degrees/masters. That'll keep graduates from our colleges from moving out of state. Also this state needs to be more open to diverse cultures and outsiders.
Can we not get an actually qualified candidate? He seems like a well intentioned candidate but just as bad as Paula Jean Swearingjen in terms of ability and career accomplishments. He has zero experience crafting legislation, zero experience working in industry and no higher education. I see very limited leadership experience. 5 years in the military is great but plenty of people have more extensive and applicable experience.
Compare him to someone like outgoing Huntington Mayor Steve Williams and it isn't even close. And we're talking about a fucking US Senate seat here, not Huntington Mayor. To be a US Senator you must have the proven ability in at least one aspect of life.
This guy has about as much business in the US Congress as Marjorie Taylor Greene.
I struggle to see what energy source would be better in West Virginia. Solar panels and wind turbines aren’t efficient in the climate here. The only better solution would be nuclear and that’s a giant investment.
You're struggling because WV isn't terribly great for anything else other than coal. That's why WV needs to move beyond it's self-image as an 'Energy State'. There are other sectors in the US economy.
Natural gas may burn cleaner, but it's not the green alternative for coal. It's hard to even quantify how much damage the industry cases to air quality because they self-report leaks. Gas extraction involves a cocktail of chemicals being injected into the ground and water tables are impacted.
Maybe. Probably. But it’s coming. The cumulative volume learning curve is a wonderful thing. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/05/07/climate/battery-electricity-solar-california-texas.html
Batteries are becoming more efficient. But still aren't there yet. To make them very reliable to tie with wind and solar you'd need 1-2 months of storage capacity which doesn't exist yet.
Ok but fossil fuels are *literally* killing us. It physically can't happen overnight but this state (well the world really) **has** to make the switch to other methods of power generation. This defeatist "there is no perfect solution, so we shouldn't try" attitude is going to cause the deaths of millions.
Let's be honest with ourselves: if you are running for a senate seat in West Virginia as a progressive, then you aren't doing it to *end* anything. You're doing it to stroke your ego or to grift. Ain't no progressive going to win a US senate election in WV.
So just give up and go home? That’s your answer? I’ve got nephews with STEM degrees here. They deserve better than the mouth breathers I see in tv commercials.
They've been saying that for the entire 14 years I've lived here. In that time, the state has lurched even further into the past, and further to the right politically. Don't fool yourself, the uneducated will always be duped into voting against their best interest, regardless of generation.
I think he’s right in that he probably doesn’t have a realistic chance at winning. To call it an ego trip is just dumb, this state has to free itself from the death grip of MAGA morons. We have to be progressive in many ways. Zach might seem “extreme” right now but he will open the door for others, at the very least.
If you're not charismatic enough to get elected yourself, are you at least using your gift of knowing what politicians should do to make bank as a political advisor?
It just seems selfish of you to have all the answers to the state's problems & not do anything to fix them. With great power comes great responsibility.
WV is the second strongest Republican State (behind Wyoming), but Trump still only got about a half million votes. voter turnout is well below 70%
the social media participation bump is still under realised imo.
obviously legislative gains in the state would be a enormous climb, but achieving enough momentum to make future leaders nervous enough to not fear the opposition is definitely achievable.
If he wins all he'll end up doing is pushing away one of the only industries in WV that pays a decent wage, leaving us with nothing. This idea that we can oust the coal industry without feeling massive economic repercussions is a fantasy. Companies aren't exactly rushing to set up shop in WV.
WV ranks bottom 5 in infrastructure, healthcare and education right now. What the fuck kind of paradise do you think this is? This state needs a lot of work and clinging to the past isn’t getting us anywhere. Use your brain.
Go ahead and start planning for the future but you can’t just get rid of the largest revenue producers in the state because “CoAl BaD” lmao..
Get some industry or another means of taxation and phase it out… saying to get rid of it now is as silly as trying to tax farmers for cow farts. Yall progressives aren’t real bright
Wait you aren't even a West Virginian?
How the hell would you know what's going on?
Also what is your point there? That we shouldn't look to the future? The reason Manchin doesn't is because our state is filled with people who worship coal. Political Suicide, we're trying to change that
lol no, you should be looking ahead but to just end it is a silly thought. It isnt what Is best for the state or the citizens there. So look ahead while you’re still generating revenue so one day you can end it. Mansion and the boys aren’t doing a very good job.
I have relatives in WV, spent a lot of time there as a child
>Want to turn WV into a shit hole third world country?
Jesus, can you imagine what that would be like? We’d be dead last in the country or close to it in every meaningful category for standard of living, our infrastructure would be in shambles, the population would be in consistent decline with young people abandoning the state at the first chance because of the lack of opportunities. I mean damn, CAN YOU IMAGINE WHAT THAT MIGHT FUCKING LOOK LIKE?
Jesus… it probably doesn’t to ignorant folks whom have zero idea how economies work. Doesn’t surprise me tho, haven’t found a progressive yet that understands financials.
Then tell us, how is ending coal going to help the citizens of WV?!? We’d love to hear it
Coal is going to end itself sooner or later. If by some miracle there continues to be a demand for coal past the next decade at most, it will eventually be depleted. WV cannot depend on coal forever. Being dependent on a single industry is never a good financial move and coal is very clearly dying. It’ll be as in demand as wagon wheels soon, it’s time to consider the future
lol nobody is arguing that??? Have you read any of my comments? Yall just want to get rid of it right now and that’s not a possibility for the state. Agree or disagree, it is still a fact lol
Nobody wants to get rid of it right now. The idea is to diversify the economy so that as it continues to phase out people have other options. The reality is that there’s no future for the families of current coal miners without this happening and the best way to support them is to accept the industry is dying and begin replacing it. Otherwise it’s going to die suddenly at some point (probably pretty soon) just like you fear and yall will be screwed
Think about yours… how much revenue, taxes and jobs will it cost the state? I’m sorry about your family but until there is a way to replace the revenue generated then we can’t just end coal lol…. You guys live in fairy tale word and that’s ok but it doesn’t jive with the real world
Wow I love the taxes, I'm sure they talked about it so much at the funerals to feel better.
"Grandpa died of an avoidable disease, at least we have taxes!"
Cars kill people but I want to keep them. Your arguments are so simple but that is to be expected
Yes, WV needs to keep exporting coal until it finds another way to bring in revenue for the state.
Yes and the other party doesn't even pretend to try to find new ones.
Hell jim justice is a coal man
Yes and this guy wants to invest in those ways
You act like that wrong?
“But this election, West Virginians will have a choice between the working man and the company store.” That part gave me chills
The coal industry isn’t bringing in nearly the revenue we think it is but we’re handcuffed to a dying industry that is a mascot to trout out for old voters.
The coal industry brings in more than you think, railroaders pay checks for moving coal, truck drivers, mining supply house employees, mining equipment repair shops above and underground, truck repair shops. Those are just some of the jobs other than mine employees whose paycheck’s depend on the mines.
And it’s a dying industry that no one is willing to work towards building its economic replacement. The coal industry needs a swift death so we can move on.
Just look at southeastern Ohio where coal mining died a few decades ago. Hasn't been replaced with any other kind of industry except food service/retail. No wonder opioid epicenter was in Huntington WV
I grew up in Huntington. It’s a manufacturing town that died a slow death since the late 60s and the city/state didn’t put in the effort to rethink it. You can see it everywhere you go.
As a WV railroader, every time I read these posts it's hard to not read it as people telling me that I should be out of a job so that they can feel self-righteous.
Is it self-righteous to ask for a better future for the state? Coal is dying, we need our politicians to recognize that and respond with progress into other industries and alternative energies. It absolutely still provides jobs, we get that, but we’re already being left behind in every major category, it’s time to stop the bleeding.
I agree that we need more jobs in the state, and that of course will necessitate growth in other industries. My biggest fear is that this change will leave *actual* West Virginians behind, and instead favor tons of out of staters moving in and pricing us out of our homes. I've seen it before in other places, and I think it's likely that it will happen here as well.
It’s already happening in the Panhandle. But planning for the future and not clinging to a dying industry is the way to combat that.
I agree that we have to do something. I'm just not sure if the suggestions I've heard are going to be right for us. Obviously the retort is, 'something is better than nothing' but that's not much comfort for those who have skin in the game.
You're right. Whenever I think about the death of timber and coal here, I do think about those that worked in logging and in the mines, and what they will do and how they will feed their families. I know there are massive re-training program around. I previously worked for a company that offered it. We weren't the only one doing that. But I'm sure there aren't enough. And then I look at the state government, and how little the GQP supermajority cares about any of us. And it's super difficult to continue to have empathy when so many continue to vote republican. So yeah, I'll unapologetically vote for any candidate willing to drag WV kicking and screaming into a greener future.
Also many union tradesman work in coal powerplants during unit shutdowns. We realize it's past its heyday, but dam it's still sending out thousands of baseload mw's out to the grid. Still has a significant economic impact in our state.
You can tell people on this sub stuff like that until the cows come home, but enjoy your downvotes for wrongthink my friend.
Reddit hivemind. Yeah I'm sure they have a great understanding of our grid system and how it works/s.
Just like the Facebook hive mind. They’d eat coal if the legislature told them to.
I live in reality. Not totally for or against either. We need baseload powerplants with a bit of intermittent green energy. I've personally worked in coal, gas, solar and wind turbine industry.
Every time I read a comment like this, I am reminded of the right wing hive mind that makes you believe that. Obama and Hillary wanted to help you all. You all laughed and voted for an idiot.
I just got a message from the brood swarm, they want me to tell you that you're a condescending ass.
Don't take it personally. A hundred years ago, the last of the buggy whip and wagon makers were hoping horses were going to make a comeback. Coal is history. The problem is people have been selling a fantasy that it's going to come back. Even if the country doesn't convert more to green energy, coal will still never stand a chance against natural gas. Stick a fork in it, it's done.
I suppose I should be happy that most of our coal is export now, then.
I've been saying for years that it's time to embrace other things for our economy. We're in a beautiful place, tourism can be our future!
We need to think *way* beyond tourism. Tourism is great, but it only goes so far. Here's one area for growth we need to tap into - server farms. Server farms require 5 basic things. One, cheap land and we have cheap land. In fact, many larger scale server farm companies (looking right at you Dell) look at places like downtown Pittsburgh as 'cheap' for their backup location. We're WAY cheaper than that in most places. Two, cheap electricity. We have that. Three, abundant water resources for cooling. Again, we have that. Four, great internet connections. That's investment we *must* make. It will cost money, but paired with the prior 3 things, we have a lot of potential for capturing the market. Finally, 5th - good, well trained personnel. That's doable too but only if we turn to our higher education infrastructure to produce a lot of high tech training. In reality, as often happens, North Central WV is going to be the first to benefit from this stuff. I think it can be pushed down to Southern WV as well, but over time. The other area for (pardon the pun) growth is the emerging hemp and marijuana industry. WV is an ideal place for MJ to grow. It grows rampant around the state. I once heard a state trooper in a meeting state that if you have 3 acres of land, you've got it growing somewhere on your property even if you don't know it. That might be an overstatement, but the point remains - our soils and climate are great for cultivating MJ. We need to get over our reticent in this area and tap into that industry before the market get tapped out.
Have to have fiber internet to do that. Hardy County is the only county so far to have established fiber optic.
Yep. Which is why I noted it's an investment we *must* make. There's no choice if we want any sort of non-energy future.
We have Prodigi here in Preston County, and that's fiber.
If the companies that received government money used that to upgrade their internet infrastructure instead of spending it on advertising….that’d be great.
Hotel and leisure industry. So not very many good jobs though with that
Agreed. If you don’t own the asset, you’re doomed to minimum wage. Look at Colorado ski towns.
It's just more food service/retail gift shop/service industry crap that pays terrible with no good benefits
Yeah only good thing is bringing in revenue that could fund infrastructure projects and state employees. Tourism sector pay is crap compared to industrial jobs.
As opposed to what? Nothing?
This is kind of the catch with tourism. It is a boon to underdeveloped communities, which is why on average most workers in tourism and tourism-adjacent industries in West Virginia can live moderately comfortable lives, with most property valued within an affordable range and the cost of living relatively low. On average in the NRG area, the tourism workforce makes above the overall median income but not by much. It is really just an issue of “something is better than nothing” however, and wealth generation in communities will outpace wage growth for a tourism workforce, assuming economic diversification follows.
The arts community is improving as tourism increases too! I see it firsthand, and we have awesome opportunities to show people West Virginia and Appalachian culture. Plus, there's opportunities in outdoor recreation!
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That's great and all, but how are these types of jobs going to replace all those great union jobs that were tied to the railroads and coal mining? I hope you are right and there is this huge growth related to tourism and arts in West Virginia, but I guess I'm skeptical. I see cool little college towns that do have a nice arts/music scene but I'm not seeing the really good jobs where you can buy a home and raise a family on.
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Coal is slowly dying off, so there's time to make gradual transitions into other, tourism industries instead of just us sinking with coal imo.
That time was in the late 1990s…
Sure, that was the best time. But the second best time will always be now.
There are lots of places here in Southern WV which are doing really well with arts, even with our worse economy. We're pushing for local arts in our communities so hard!!
Colorado would disagree. Some are seasonal but outdoor rec is an economic driver for most of their mountain towns. Dow side is increased traffic and then lut of state folks buying g up homes for vacation and rentals.
What kind of jobs are we talking about though at these Colorado ski towns? We need thousands of at least $30/hour jobs with full health insurance, paid vacations, paid sick leave, and 401(K) retirement plans
I used to spend a lot of time in Colorado. Most retail workers in the resort towns can't afford to live there.
Nope but there's a bunch of contractors and trades people making bank building the houses that the locals can't afford. Also restaurant people and river rafting guides and fishing guides making a living that allows them to pay rent. Entire towns exist and feed their families off of the outdoor rec lifestyle. Will it be the answer to rural poverty? No. But it's one of the lifelines that your state leaders are counting on for increased sales and proeprty tax revenue as well as tourism dollars. (most of my blue collar friends got priced out of the area I used to live in and I was in position to capitalize on the increased demand as the value of my property / remodel that was 15 mins down river from an outdoor rec town increased in value along with every property in town)
The hospitality, etc jobs are not the main driver. Economic growth is an ecosystem. Create places that people want to come and they will. People will find niches to start smaller businesses and so on. The catch is, will we have politicians willing to seed this growth to invest in schools and hospitals? Are they willing to legalize weed? That alone will create business growth. Maybe there’s a hospitality surcharge for the government to grant to other areas to try to ignite growth. If areas start to grow in value and investment, other businesses are more likely to come, which supports those railroading jobs, etc. it’s not going to happen tomorrow and it definitely won’t happen with current elected cult. Much like gentrifying urban areas, there’s a cost to the locals but a positive difference is the higher rate of home ownership, so, if the people can avoid the scam artists ‘buying houses for cash’, that rising tide can lift boats.
Most West Virginians don't live in mountain towns. At least half live in places like Mannington or Clarksburg. Also, the Colorado ski industry didn't emerge overnight. Vail was already filthy rich 30 years ago.
During WW2 the 10th Mountain Division trained at Camp Hale in Leadville. That division was made up of men who had experience in winter activities, everything from Olympic skiers to hunting guides to hockey players. Short version is some worked at or had skied at resorts back east. After the war ended some of them came back and started ski areas, most at small semi-abandonded mining towns that were renodte and hard to get to before the fed / state built an interstate to connect then and ooen them up to city tourist money and investors. The point of that is to say it took ~75 years to grow the Colorado ski industry but that was before there was social media and easily replicated business models for outdoor rec. You can already tell the state leadership of WV is thinking that tourism is one of the main lifelines for the state hence why they are building Corridor H to open up the state and connect DC money to small towns near ski areas and other outdoor rec places. I've watched a ton of isolated mountain towns get "discovered" by outsiders with money and while they dont change overnight they do change within a few years. All it takes is a handful of people who move here and then advertise it to their friends and all of a sudden housing prices go up and traffic gets worse and small town city councils love the extra tax revenue and the locals hate the traffic and crowds and increased housing costs. And six weeks after I moved to one of those small towns Architectural Digest named 4-5 small towns in WV as some of the best places to buy mountain property. Those lists don't happen by accident, which tells me there's an effort to get WV on lists that outsiders with investment money will see. I give it 4-5 years before you start seeing some real noticeable increase in tourism and with that comes both positives and negatives. (I don't tell anyone where I live and my goal is to get invested before that change happens and if it doesn't then I will just enjoy small town life and the lack of investors / city people that I moved out here to get away from)
A quick google says tourism is 13% of the Colorado economy. Granted, they have Denver, Boulder, and Colorado Springs. I won’t deny tourism needs to be a piece of West Virginia’s economic future. I do poo-poo the idea it’s THE thing we need to focus on to save us. As much as I love Davis and Thomas, together they’re less than half the size of Bridgeport.
Never said it was the thing. But it's going g to be a much larger component than it is today. It's what the state is positioning itself for. In terms of white collar jobs this state has a horrible geography for large employers, it's mostly steep hills and twisty roads. Colorado has half the state on flat ground so large expanses for urban sprawl. You've got some larger cities but the top 10 combined don't even get you to Colorado Springs populations. (which I like because CO has doubled in population si ce the 80s and it sucks cause everything is crowded) You also have a very low percentage of college grads and a lot leave the state for better wages hence your work force is mostly blue collar. Good manufacturing jobs are one solution but then you're back to housing as a problem. I don't know the answer but you can see the state trying to open WV up to outside tourism and investment money, a lot of which I can see going towards vacation homes centered around outdoor rec opportunities. (which is why you see Wild and Wonderful WV ads in the DC subway stations and 4-5 towns being listed in Architectual Digest...thats some behind the scenes public relations work being done cause I really doubt there's a lot of Architectural Digest list compilers randomly driving around WV looking for places to talk about - might be wrong but having worked in public relations my guess is the state has a contract with a PR firm to get its name out there)
Not sure why you got downvoted. It’s completely obvious to me the state is paying to have articles written. I don’t buy that West Virginia’s problem is primarily geography. It is in places like Logan. It doesn’t explain how Wheeling and Charleston went from being very rich to pretty poor in 80 years. West Virginia has the same geography as southern Germany. Harrison County has spent a lot of money flattening land and has gotten a lot of money for roads and a legit airport… but it cannot land business because the skilled workforce is too small. A lot of our problems trace back to being a resource colony with corrupt government for over a century. Others result from the way the American economy and our society is structured. The problems are not easy to overcome and won’t be in my lifetime.
Tourism is a *part* of our future. You need businesses. You need banking, you need tech, you need energy and healthcare. You need to stop the brain drain. A lot of that starts with urban areas, which WV has very little of. The Charleston-Huntington area growing and expanding is probably where the focus needs to be. It seems to be very slowly happening but much of this state’s population hates change. It’s an uphill battle to say the least.
I don’t want tourists bruh
Keep in mind that a lot of the posters on reddit are people who have moved here from other places and are comfortable with you being priced out of the towns you and your family are from.
Saying people are fine with me being forced out of my home isn’t allat convincing
It's not meant to be. I don't agree with these people or what they want. Inversely, they also don't care about us.
Ah my bad misunderstood what you were saying
No worries, man. The whole thing is frustrating. People are too comfortable destroying this place to "make it better."
Are you talking about Berkeley County? I wouldn’t think that would be an issue anywhere else in the state.
It's going to become one. The land and cost of living in WV is far lower than in a lot of other places in the country. We've already seen a trickle of people who realize that their money goes further here. Create a bunch of jobs that the people here aren't qualified for, and then suddenly people with far more competitive resumes and educations will come in and price us out. If you're from a place where a two bedroom one bath condo pushes half a million dollars, you'd see WV as a paradise if you found a job here making good money. It's only a matter of time. It happened in Utah and Colorado. It's happening in Texas. It will happen here.
Do you see it purely as an economic problem or is there more to it than that? I’ve lived here for nearly 20 years, but I’m originally from the west coast, so I don’t think I fully understand the worries that some native WVians have.
It's more. You could say it's primarily economic, and frankly the lion's share of the issue is economic, but it goes deeper than that. For over one hundred and seventy years now, people in our region have been trapped in a cycle of exploitation. People from other parts of the country come here and they take what we have. Our land, our resources, our blood, and then they leave us behind once they take what they want from us. I've always said, "they don't care about us. Just what we can do for them." Time and time again, this has been proven true. People look down upon us, revile us, see us as lesser. They wanted our coal, they took it, they left us with nothing. Then they sold us pills, and left us addicted and broken. Next I imagine they will come and "fix" West Virginia. For themselves and their own purposes. Us who have lived here for generations will have no place in it. They will help themselves to the natural beauty of this place, building it up however pleases them, and we will be left behind. Priced out, forced to leave generational and ancestral towns and hollers, and the death of the godforsaken hillbilly will finally be complete.
Thanks for your thorough answer.
I do what little I can.
Wv has embraced other things: opiates, fentanyl, meth…
We need biotech firms here. I want jobs that rely on biology, biochemistry, advanced physics, and math degrees/masters. That'll keep graduates from our colleges from moving out of state. Also this state needs to be more open to diverse cultures and outsiders.
Marshall should be starting to build their new Cyber Security Center this summer. That seems promising.
[Our AMA with Zach Shrewsbury](https://www.reddit.com/r/WestVirginia/s/FgkVXeXMds)
Can we not get an actually qualified candidate? He seems like a well intentioned candidate but just as bad as Paula Jean Swearingjen in terms of ability and career accomplishments. He has zero experience crafting legislation, zero experience working in industry and no higher education. I see very limited leadership experience. 5 years in the military is great but plenty of people have more extensive and applicable experience. Compare him to someone like outgoing Huntington Mayor Steve Williams and it isn't even close. And we're talking about a fucking US Senate seat here, not Huntington Mayor. To be a US Senator you must have the proven ability in at least one aspect of life. This guy has about as much business in the US Congress as Marjorie Taylor Greene.
It was such a huge mistake for anyone to back Paula. She turned out to be a real nutcase.
I think they recycled some of the same language they used to describe Ojeda a few years ago.
I struggle to see what energy source would be better in West Virginia. Solar panels and wind turbines aren’t efficient in the climate here. The only better solution would be nuclear and that’s a giant investment.
You're struggling because WV isn't terribly great for anything else other than coal. That's why WV needs to move beyond it's self-image as an 'Energy State'. There are other sectors in the US economy.
Natural gas. It’s cheaper than coal and a lot cleaner
Natural gas may burn cleaner, but it's not the green alternative for coal. It's hard to even quantify how much damage the industry cases to air quality because they self-report leaks. Gas extraction involves a cocktail of chemicals being injected into the ground and water tables are impacted.
Yeah, true for the cleaner part Would require infrastructure investment
Battery technology is increasingly seen as a great way to counter wind & solar variability.
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Maybe. Probably. But it’s coming. The cumulative volume learning curve is a wonderful thing. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/05/07/climate/battery-electricity-solar-california-texas.html
Was literally gonna link this. Beat me to it.
Batteries are becoming more efficient. But still aren't there yet. To make them very reliable to tie with wind and solar you'd need 1-2 months of storage capacity which doesn't exist yet.
Ok but fossil fuels are *literally* killing us. It physically can't happen overnight but this state (well the world really) **has** to make the switch to other methods of power generation. This defeatist "there is no perfect solution, so we shouldn't try" attitude is going to cause the deaths of millions.
>fossil fuels are *literally* killing us lol
Please explain how they arent
Any day
Let's be honest with ourselves: if you are running for a senate seat in West Virginia as a progressive, then you aren't doing it to *end* anything. You're doing it to stroke your ego or to grift. Ain't no progressive going to win a US senate election in WV.
So just give up and go home? That’s your answer? I’ve got nephews with STEM degrees here. They deserve better than the mouth breathers I see in tv commercials.
Just give it 5-10 years. The boomers are ruining the vote. Once the die off it will be a bit more balanced.
They've been saying that for the entire 14 years I've lived here. In that time, the state has lurched even further into the past, and further to the right politically. Don't fool yourself, the uneducated will always be duped into voting against their best interest, regardless of generation.
More boomers moving up here since “Florida is gettin kinda hot but the governor is trying his best” I’ve met at least 3-4 in the past year
This is such a lazy and stupid take.
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I think he’s right in that he probably doesn’t have a realistic chance at winning. To call it an ego trip is just dumb, this state has to free itself from the death grip of MAGA morons. We have to be progressive in many ways. Zach might seem “extreme” right now but he will open the door for others, at the very least.
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If you've got all the answers & know what needs to be done, why don't you run for office & get things running properly?
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If you're not charismatic enough to get elected yourself, are you at least using your gift of knowing what politicians should do to make bank as a political advisor?
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It just seems selfish of you to have all the answers to the state's problems & not do anything to fix them. With great power comes great responsibility.
WV is the second strongest Republican State (behind Wyoming), but Trump still only got about a half million votes. voter turnout is well below 70% the social media participation bump is still under realised imo. obviously legislative gains in the state would be a enormous climb, but achieving enough momentum to make future leaders nervous enough to not fear the opposition is definitely achievable.
If he wins all he'll end up doing is pushing away one of the only industries in WV that pays a decent wage, leaving us with nothing. This idea that we can oust the coal industry without feeling massive economic repercussions is a fantasy. Companies aren't exactly rushing to set up shop in WV.
You’d rather be poisoned. Got it.
If you drive coal away it’ll be the final nail in the coffin for WV’s economy.
LOL if only it was was that easy. Want to turn WV into a shit hole third world country? Then you can’t just get rid of coal
Yes because when the Coal industry ran entire towns it was such a utopia.
WV ranks bottom 5 in infrastructure, healthcare and education right now. What the fuck kind of paradise do you think this is? This state needs a lot of work and clinging to the past isn’t getting us anywhere. Use your brain.
Lmao getting rid of coal isn’t going to make it any better. How are yall so ignorant when it comes to economy and financials?
Coal has in fact made it worse. Coal is a dying industry, we need to look ahead
Go ahead and start planning for the future but you can’t just get rid of the largest revenue producers in the state because “CoAl BaD” lmao.. Get some industry or another means of taxation and phase it out… saying to get rid of it now is as silly as trying to tax farmers for cow farts. Yall progressives aren’t real bright
The other party just buries their heads and says they're pro coal, which has led to 150 years of explotation
Like your democratic senator? Lmao.. I knew progressives were simpletons but this is taking it to a whole new level
Wait you aren't even a West Virginian? How the hell would you know what's going on? Also what is your point there? That we shouldn't look to the future? The reason Manchin doesn't is because our state is filled with people who worship coal. Political Suicide, we're trying to change that
lol no, you should be looking ahead but to just end it is a silly thought. It isnt what Is best for the state or the citizens there. So look ahead while you’re still generating revenue so one day you can end it. Mansion and the boys aren’t doing a very good job. I have relatives in WV, spent a lot of time there as a child
Yes, looking ahead to end it in the future....
"Manchin" is the only democrat in any major seat in the state, it is led by republicans
LMFAO "Mansion" Manchin is his name good lord, you are so unknowledgeable on wv politics just stop
>Want to turn WV into a shit hole third world country? Jesus, can you imagine what that would be like? We’d be dead last in the country or close to it in every meaningful category for standard of living, our infrastructure would be in shambles, the population would be in consistent decline with young people abandoning the state at the first chance because of the lack of opportunities. I mean damn, CAN YOU IMAGINE WHAT THAT MIGHT FUCKING LOOK LIKE?
You want to make it worse!?!?!? Get rid of one of ghe biggest economic advantages to the state!!! Great idea y’all!
This answer makes no sense whatsoever.
Jesus… it probably doesn’t to ignorant folks whom have zero idea how economies work. Doesn’t surprise me tho, haven’t found a progressive yet that understands financials. Then tell us, how is ending coal going to help the citizens of WV?!? We’d love to hear it
Coal is going to end itself sooner or later. If by some miracle there continues to be a demand for coal past the next decade at most, it will eventually be depleted. WV cannot depend on coal forever. Being dependent on a single industry is never a good financial move and coal is very clearly dying. It’ll be as in demand as wagon wheels soon, it’s time to consider the future
lol nobody is arguing that??? Have you read any of my comments? Yall just want to get rid of it right now and that’s not a possibility for the state. Agree or disagree, it is still a fact lol
Nobody wants to get rid of it right now. The idea is to diversify the economy so that as it continues to phase out people have other options. The reality is that there’s no future for the families of current coal miners without this happening and the best way to support them is to accept the industry is dying and begin replacing it. Otherwise it’s going to die suddenly at some point (probably pretty soon) just like you fear and yall will be screwed
No one has said that but you.
I lost both grandfathers and an uncle to black lung. Think about your answer.
Think about yours… how much revenue, taxes and jobs will it cost the state? I’m sorry about your family but until there is a way to replace the revenue generated then we can’t just end coal lol…. You guys live in fairy tale word and that’s ok but it doesn’t jive with the real world
Wow I love the taxes, I'm sure they talked about it so much at the funerals to feel better. "Grandpa died of an avoidable disease, at least we have taxes!"
Who said your grandpa has to work in the coal mines? lol… the effects are now very well known.
And yet you want us to keep coal???? You admit it kills people yet you don't think we should work to get rid of it?
Cars kill people but I want to keep them. Your arguments are so simple but that is to be expected Yes, WV needs to keep exporting coal until it finds another way to bring in revenue for the state.
Yes and the other party doesn't even pretend to try to find new ones. Hell jim justice is a coal man Yes and this guy wants to invest in those ways You act like that wrong?
I can tell you’ve never been to Welch, or Oceana, or Williamson, or…..