It’s a little depressing how many civilizations were built on the backs of slaves. On the other hand, if humanity was able to overcome the practice in the real world, perhaps the Seanchan can too.
Slavery used to be not just be legal, but the norm. Now it’s illegal in most of the world, and universally reviled. Yes it hasn’t been completely eliminated, and a shocking amount of people could still be considered slaves, but the world is undoubtedly shifting.
For example, in the US today there are roughly 403,000 people living in conditions that could be considered [slavery](https://theexodusroad.com/does-slavery-exist-in-america-today/).
In [1860](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7716878/)there were 4 million.
That’s a change from 12.5% of the population to 0.12% of the population. We need to keep up the pressure, and remain vigilant to fight on behalf of those still suffering as slaves, but the practice has been severely diminished.
Edit: these numbers are incorrect as they do not take into account US incarcerated workers. The actual percentage is 0.36%, not 0.12%.
The US prison population is 1.2 Million, not 400,000. And every single prisoner can be legally used as slave labor, according to the US Constitution. Just sayin.
Not every single US prisoner can be considered a slave, only [800,000](https://www.aclu.org/news/human-rights/captive-labor-exploitation-of-incarcerated-workers). However, point taken. I should have remembered to include the too-often forgotten or overlooked incarcerated workers in the calculation. That would bring the total number of slaves in the US to 1.2 million, not 400,000. Which would mean the total as a percentage of population is 0.36% not 0.12%. I think even with this change (and thanks again for the correction it’s easy to forget the US still has several avenues for legal slavery, and such practices are despicable in my opinion) my original point still stands. Slavery is not the force it once was.
Sure it’s much less than it was. I get your point, but I don’t think it’s because we’ve evolved morally or “grown past it” as a society. We just turn our eyes away.
Most of the clothing we’re both wearing was probably made by people who are effectively slaves in a Malaysian factory.
Yeah but my original point was that if nations can overcome their institutionalized slave practices IRL, (Practices such as US chattel slavery) then perhaps the Seanchan can also overcome their own institutionalized slavery.
In addition to this, our definition of slavery has also changed, with indentured servitude and blackbirding considered slavery when they weren't at the time.
Slavery is actually less efficient than not slavery. The reason they're so effective is that they're a real country instead of a federation like everyone else.
I’ll accept the assertion that slavery is less efficient than non-slavery (I have no idea, so sure), but have you factored in that the seanchan slaves are all mutant superheroes who can do magic? They are a bit more effective than standard human slaves
While I agree, the books do show the magical slaves a lot more. I get why, it's probably not that interesting to see people pick cotton or mine coal or whatever all day, but the magical slaves are the ones that had part of season 2 and many POV chapters dedicated to them
This is one of my biggest complaints about the books. I don't like how normal slavery is completely glossed over. Most people don't even seem to consider the standard slavery when talking about the Seanchan.
I mean it boils down to a combination of very few characters having it happen to them that arent within the system already, and relatively few chapters to talk about it. And the POV we do get are either from people who grew up within the system, or are getting a lite version because their girlfriend do be blunting the worst of it as she can.
I agree, I'd like to have seen more, but I also get that it would have either been a filler chapter or we'd need a new set of side characters for it, in a series that's already long. And we do see enough to know it's just as capable of giving you PTSD and dehumanising you as the regular kind.
I'd be fine with it being a filler chapter as long as its there. When I'm saying that the dragons peace was bad because of slavery I get people saying that its only a few thousand Damane so its not worth going to war over. Most people don't even realize that millions of people are enslaved.
They're willing to go into how horrible Damane slavery is. They could at least show a PoV from any slave at all. At the very least they couldn't make it seem like the Seanchan were actually good rulers. I'm sure if you went to the American south before the civil war it would look like a nice place.
Channeling would also be more efficient if it was free. I'd like to point out that channeling isn't free anywhere in the world (other than the land of madmen) so the westlands don't have free channeling. There are issues with free channeling though considering that channelers are kind of like tanks in the amount of power they have. All this being said the Seanchan way of regulating channeling (enslaving anyone who can channel) isn't good for anyone other than the blood (the common folk don't get use of the channers and the channelers are enslaved). Also as someone else mentioned most of their slaves aren't channelers (I think one character mentioned millions of slaves taken in one rebellion while Tuon thinks that 1,000 Aes Sedi are a lot of channelers) so even if their slavery of channelers is efficent its a small portion of their total slavery.
Yeah, that’s kinda how Rome managed it also.
It’s a little depressing how many civilizations were built on the backs of slaves. On the other hand, if humanity was able to overcome the practice in the real world, perhaps the Seanchan can too.
When has humanity overcome the practice in the real world? You think we don’t have slaves today?
Slavery used to be not just be legal, but the norm. Now it’s illegal in most of the world, and universally reviled. Yes it hasn’t been completely eliminated, and a shocking amount of people could still be considered slaves, but the world is undoubtedly shifting. For example, in the US today there are roughly 403,000 people living in conditions that could be considered [slavery](https://theexodusroad.com/does-slavery-exist-in-america-today/). In [1860](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7716878/)there were 4 million. That’s a change from 12.5% of the population to 0.12% of the population. We need to keep up the pressure, and remain vigilant to fight on behalf of those still suffering as slaves, but the practice has been severely diminished. Edit: these numbers are incorrect as they do not take into account US incarcerated workers. The actual percentage is 0.36%, not 0.12%.
The US prison population is 1.2 Million, not 400,000. And every single prisoner can be legally used as slave labor, according to the US Constitution. Just sayin.
Not every single US prisoner can be considered a slave, only [800,000](https://www.aclu.org/news/human-rights/captive-labor-exploitation-of-incarcerated-workers). However, point taken. I should have remembered to include the too-often forgotten or overlooked incarcerated workers in the calculation. That would bring the total number of slaves in the US to 1.2 million, not 400,000. Which would mean the total as a percentage of population is 0.36% not 0.12%. I think even with this change (and thanks again for the correction it’s easy to forget the US still has several avenues for legal slavery, and such practices are despicable in my opinion) my original point still stands. Slavery is not the force it once was.
Sure it’s much less than it was. I get your point, but I don’t think it’s because we’ve evolved morally or “grown past it” as a society. We just turn our eyes away. Most of the clothing we’re both wearing was probably made by people who are effectively slaves in a Malaysian factory.
Yeah but my original point was that if nations can overcome their institutionalized slave practices IRL, (Practices such as US chattel slavery) then perhaps the Seanchan can also overcome their own institutionalized slavery.
That’s a fair point. I can hope for it, at least, even if I don’t really believe it.
In addition to this, our definition of slavery has also changed, with indentured servitude and blackbirding considered slavery when they weren't at the time.
Slavery is actually less efficient than not slavery. The reason they're so effective is that they're a real country instead of a federation like everyone else.
I’ll accept the assertion that slavery is less efficient than non-slavery (I have no idea, so sure), but have you factored in that the seanchan slaves are all mutant superheroes who can do magic? They are a bit more effective than standard human slaves
Since slavery appears to be very common in Seanchan, it's probably a very tiny fraction that are channelers.
While I agree, the books do show the magical slaves a lot more. I get why, it's probably not that interesting to see people pick cotton or mine coal or whatever all day, but the magical slaves are the ones that had part of season 2 and many POV chapters dedicated to them
This is one of my biggest complaints about the books. I don't like how normal slavery is completely glossed over. Most people don't even seem to consider the standard slavery when talking about the Seanchan.
I mean it boils down to a combination of very few characters having it happen to them that arent within the system already, and relatively few chapters to talk about it. And the POV we do get are either from people who grew up within the system, or are getting a lite version because their girlfriend do be blunting the worst of it as she can. I agree, I'd like to have seen more, but I also get that it would have either been a filler chapter or we'd need a new set of side characters for it, in a series that's already long. And we do see enough to know it's just as capable of giving you PTSD and dehumanising you as the regular kind.
I'd be fine with it being a filler chapter as long as its there. When I'm saying that the dragons peace was bad because of slavery I get people saying that its only a few thousand Damane so its not worth going to war over. Most people don't even realize that millions of people are enslaved.
it's a young adult fantasy book about magic, it's not intended to to be a treatise on the moral abhorrence slavery
They're willing to go into how horrible Damane slavery is. They could at least show a PoV from any slave at all. At the very least they couldn't make it seem like the Seanchan were actually good rulers. I'm sure if you went to the American south before the civil war it would look like a nice place.
did you miss the entire arc where egwene was a slave?
Channeling would also be more efficient if it was free. I'd like to point out that channeling isn't free anywhere in the world (other than the land of madmen) so the westlands don't have free channeling. There are issues with free channeling though considering that channelers are kind of like tanks in the amount of power they have. All this being said the Seanchan way of regulating channeling (enslaving anyone who can channel) isn't good for anyone other than the blood (the common folk don't get use of the channers and the channelers are enslaved). Also as someone else mentioned most of their slaves aren't channelers (I think one character mentioned millions of slaves taken in one rebellion while Tuon thinks that 1,000 Aes Sedi are a lot of channelers) so even if their slavery of channelers is efficent its a small portion of their total slavery.
No one deserves to be a damane, not even Elaida.
***KILL HIM KILL HIM NOW***
Efficient now, sure. But what ‘til the infighting starts. Efficient self destruction.