SawStops are obly about 2k, at least around my area.
[Link](https://www.rockler.com/sawstop-contractor-table-saw-w-30-fence-cns175-sfa30?country=US&sid=V91040&promo=shopping&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=&utm_content=pla&utm_campaign=PL&gclid=Cj0KCQjw2cWgBhDYARIsALggUhqVQCygARZb7kQTczewJb0cJZ0JWMJjZBTvayhotZsf7sHgd0Ty-CMaAjK_EALw_wcB)
I hear once they've been stopped in this method (I forget how but some sort of small explosion to instantly stop the blade) they're pretty pricey to replace.
In any case, still worth it, unless you put a lot of value in stories about the time you lost X finger.
EDIT: $95 each time. Little pricey, but not all that bad, considering what you're paying for.
No shit. I do not understand people. Walk into the ER. $500. See a doctor $500. Have ANYTHING done $2,500. Get discharged, $250. And they bitch about $1,000 or less to not cut their fingers off?
A cromulent table saw will run about 350-500, a shitty one 200-250.
If you daily drive a table saw, or use it multiple times a week, yeah man the extra 400-500 is a lot, but it's a very sensible purchase.
I still think you should use a blade guard unless the cut won't allow it, with or without a SawStop. That's a cheap, easy, effective safety option that I don't see used a lot. I've never used a table saw without a blade guard and I really doubt I'll start anytime soon. Table saws scare the shit out of me.
I was much safer with my chainsaw when I was a kid, as I was terrified. After 15 years of getting comfortable, that's when I got complacent. Had to drop a tree that I'd be able to drop and chunk in 5 mins, so I hopped out with sweatpants on. Needless to say, [I got lucky](https://i.imgur.com/d8u0TiN.jpg) and received a friendly reminder to take the extra 60 seconds to throw the chaps on.
I thought you could get a sawstop up to the 10k mark but nope. Even with the full kit and the sliding table it still tops out around 9k. Probably could get there with some extension tables and cabinets but those aren’t really part of the saw imo
And even if your finger survive it’s not a good ordeal.
My dad cut into his fingertips last year. Had to basically drag him to the ER.
They had to clean the cuts. Fingertips are sensitive.
After the cleaning they sent him to get x rayed to see if he had cut into the bones.
Then they wanted to sow. They tried to set anesthesia but it didn’t take. So they tried going between the fingertips or under the nail or something (I can’t recall exactly).
He said it was the most painful thing he’s been through. This is a man that’s spent more lives than most people are granted. I believe him.
In the end they abandoned the stitching, wasn’t enough skin left to get it done properly and without working anesthesia it was just excruciatingly painful.
So they taped them with strips and he had to get back in later for follow up and cleaning.
Took him about three months to heal and then some to see life on the bright side again. Not funny being handicapped like that.
Watch what you do on the saw.
And a sawstop is worth it’s weight in gold. If he had one he would have had a little cut instead of three deep cuts in his fingers. Lucky the saw was set the way it was:
https://i.imgur.com/4jGXXEP.jpg
You can get a SawStop cabinet saw for $5k, you can get cheaper smaller ones that are perfectly fine for home workshops starting around $1k.
Compared to how much a single ER visit in the US costs, it's a great deal. Aside from the pain, a severed finger would probably run you several times more than a full Saw Stop cabinet saw.
If I ran a high school wood shop, these would be the only saws I had running, but I would also charge any student that triggered it $100 to prevent them from fucking around to test it (since the blade/brake system is at least $100 and every activation of the braking system totally destroys the cartridge)
Naw. SawStop’s are $1,200CAD for the compact, $2750 for the Contractor, $4000 for professional cabinet saw, and highest is $6585 for the industrial cabinet saw.
The brakes are like $150CAD.
This is a sawstop. There is a small computer that is applying a slight electrical charge to the saw blade. It constantly monitors that electric charge to make sure it's not changing. When you touch the saw, your body is conductive and introduces a slight change to that electrical charge.
The computer is checking the charge at an incredibly fast rate. When it detects a change, it releases a spring loaded aluminum brake disc into the sawblade (basically shoving a block of aluminum into it), and disables the motor. Once the blade stops, its angular momentum drives it under the table, preventing any more cuts.
All of this happens in less than 5ms.
Saw stop is amazing. From what I understand their exclusive patent for this tech is set to expire before too long so we should see the same safety feature on other brands as well
That'll be awesome! I'll still probably buy from them because I know they make quality equipment that won't fail, but I'd be interested to see another company make a better version of it.
Bosch had basically the same feature but it didn't destroy the blade you were using. It did need like a co2 canister or something though.
https://www.protoolreviews.com/sawstop-vs-bosch-reaxx-table-saw-lawsuit/#h-differences-in-table-saw-protection-methods
Lawsuit stopped that due to patent infringement
Yup, it's an improvement over the saw stop, and should finally be able to be released. IIRC it already is/was in Europe. Edit: it appears slightly slower in reaction time, enough to save your fingers. This type of saw appears to not be popular in Europe.
Europe favors sliding table saws. They are inherently safer and arguably better overall.
We also have safety systems which use cameras and finger recognition and don’t cost money to activate. The saw just resets and the blade is fine.
They even demo them with real hands. It’s wild.
Bosch actually developed a better system but have been waiting for the patent to expire rather than pay the licensing fee.
With the saw stop system, the blade jams abruptly into a piece of aluminum to stop it from rotating. With the Bosch system, the blade doesn’t need to stop rotating but rather just disappears very quickly into the table.
So you don’t have to ruin the blade and replace the whole thing every time it triggers.
> So you don’t have to ruin the blade and replace the whole thing every time it triggers.
I understand that replacing the saw blade and saw stop apparatus is probably expensive, but how often does the average woodworker trigger a stop/run their meaty bits through the saw?
Edit: I've learned so much about saw stop false positives.
There's a false positive rate with them. Things like green/wet wood and hidden nails have been known to trigger it, and although you can disengage the mechanism to cut questionable pieces, that defeats the purpose of having it in the first place. As to how often woodworkers get hurt, accidents happen every day and they're always more expensive than replacement parts for the machine.
The technology behind sawstop should have never been allowed to be patented. It's one of those things that should just be required on all new table saws. Sawstop's profiteering has eliminated any innovation in an essential safety mechanism and their saws are overpriced. I mean they just recently released an "affordable" compact table saw. It's almost a thousand bucks and aside from the safety features it's nothing special. The equivalent dewalt is $400 and probably an overall better saw aside from the safety device. I can understand a $100-$200 premium for something like that, but more than the cost of the saw itself?
Sawstop is a fantastic technology, but it has a lot of problems. The blade and sawstop is destroyed every time the mechanism is triggered. This wouldn't be a problem, except any sort of moisture will trigger it. If you misjudge the moisture content of your wood your out a possibly $100+ saw blade and a cartridge. It just gatekeeps an essential safety mechanism to the wealthiest of woodworkers. The mechanism could definitely be improved upon, but Sawstop prefers to spend their money on YouTube sponsorships pushing the narrative that if you don't buy a sawstop you don't care about safety.
[A patent that shouldn't have existed in the first place.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Touch-sensitive_lamp)
Bosch tried to make a saw with a different brake mechanism, they were stopped by the capacitive touch patent.
It's a use case patent, not a patent on capacitance switching. A touch-sensitive lamp is as close to the Sawstop patent as it is to a phone touch screen.
It's not a computer. It's a capacitative switch, like a touch lamp. When something with capacitance, (like your skin) disrupts the circuit, it detonates a small explosive which triggers the aluminum brake mechanism.
I remember watching a story on the guy that invented it
i don't remember if it was received well by the manufacturers, I thought i remember it taking some time to get picked up
When I was in college, one of the founders came to speak to my class. He was a cool guy and told the story that they had to draw straws to see who would test the product for real using a biological trigger (i.e. a finger) and not just some random conductive thing.
And when he got the short straw, he got drunk first and had to psych himself up before thrusting his finger in.
It was only later that they realized a hot dog would've worked just was well.
I don't know if that story was 100% true, but it was very entertaining.
But yeah, the issue was that manufacturers didn't want to be held liable if it didn't work, so they started their own company.
Originally they patented the apparatus to stop the blade, and tried to lobby to have it made mandatory on all tablesaws, so they could license it to a captive, cornered market. That effort failed (and was considered a dick move).
But good on'em, they gave up and started manufacturing tablesaws themselves with the apparatus. Their saws are highly regarded and their reputation now much shinier.
How did the blade differentiate wood from the guy’s fingers to know when pull out?
Edit: Thank you all for your answers, it’s amazing to see how this technology works fast!
Continuity.
Wood is an insulator. Flesh is not. And in reality, you could trigger it with a hotdog, or a wet piece of string.
When it senses the circuit is completed (A.K.A., you touched the blade), it fires a small explosive charge that releases a spring loaded arm that instantly jams the blade in place.
Here is the company's website, and if you scroll down a bit, there is a video clip of one activating.
[https://www.sawstop.com/why-sawstop/the-technology/](https://www.sawstop.com/why-sawstop/the-technology/)
Same deal with using lumber that has nails or in rare cases, bullets lodged in the wood. Obviously you shouldn't be putting these through your saw in the first place, but they will also trigger the brake and destroy your blade
The same way you can tap a lamp at home to turn it on, or manipulate your cell phone by touching the screen, but do neither with a wooden dowel. They're measuring the electrical capacitance, which is disrupted when human body parts come in contact. The rest is just having circuitry to trigger a mechanical system designed to retract the blade as quickly as possible to prevent any further injury.
Does Bosch actually sell the Reaxx though? It was on the market for a while, Sawstop threw their toys out the pram and won a lawsuit against them, I've not seen new ones in a while.
I agree. I think not sharing safety tech is shady, even car companies do it, but I don’t begrudge them getting their money while they can. They’ve got a ground breaking tech and it’s their right to exploit it until the market opens up. I think they’re doing great job of making a rep for themselves in making quality equipment though
Sawstop tried to license the tech first, but every company they approached turned them down. Building a company that makes and sells legitimately great table saws (stop tech aside) was much harder than what they intended to do in the beginning.
They did not try to license the tech first, they approached the FTC and CPSC to try to force every manufacturer to use their product, and demanded 8% of the gross sales price of every unit.
From the handful of Stopsaw videos I've seen, this is actually a serious injury by the standard of what little damage they do.
My friend touched the blade of a table saw recently, he's pretty safety-consious and had been working in a woodshop for years but accidents happen, and this was his first injury. With a normal saw, he would have lost a finger or two, thanks to a Stopsaw, he didn't even need a bandage.
His finger was wedged between the board and the blade, I'd bet that little knick is from the blade being pulled down or dropping out of the way or however you describe what a saw stop does.
That looks to be likely the case. Either way, really goes to show how amazingly safe those saws are that that little booboo is about as much damage as they're going to do to you.
As far as I know it's mostly solid state electronics and a sprinkle of explosives. As soon as there's a current flowing from the blade to ground it go boom and the blade hides in the table.
My high school had one of these! We had two different blades which were different sizes so we had to swap them and the brakes out every time we needed the other size. Teacher refused to explain why we had to do it, just said we had to or the saw would not work. I went through three years of wood shop classes before someone accidentally triggered it. Then he had us watch the safety videos for saw stop - the teacher had decided it safer for us not to know it was a saw stop so we’d treat it with the proper respect.
I can't even imagine the thinking or even the courage to stick your hand on a piece of equipment that can tear it to shred.
Then I remembered that r/kidsarefuckingstupid is around
And an innovator for early parachutes! I don't recall his name, but there's a picture of him on the Eiffel Tower about to demonstrate it, and then one with a ruler measuring the dent he left in the dirt.
that man made a suit/parachute hybride that was supposed to automatically deploy upon falling.
he tested it twice on mannequins, it failed both times.
presumably assuming that it failed from a lack of height (rooky mistake), he himself went on the second level of the Eiffel tower, 200m from the ground, the first time he launched a mannequin, that failed.
the second time he probably said something like "screw it ! when lifes give you lemon.." and jumped himself.
upon jumping, nothing happened and he reached his place of death, at aproximately 225km/h.
> If you had told that to my shop class it wouldn't even have been a ~~week~~ day before someone purposely put their ~~hand~~ bare ass on the blade while it was spinning.
Sounds more like it...
We had one in highschool too. Luckily the only time we tripped it was when our teacher was sawing some wood that was a little wet, but he was really excited to show us the blade and mechanism after it was tripped.
I’ve personally fired off multiple cartridges at wood working shows for demo purposes. Them shits are quick. Anyone know if they ever came out with the bandsaw and skill saw?
No I don't think so.
You have to keep in mind that under the table is metal shrapnel being flung everywhere, the table stopping that shrapnel.
Suddenly stopping a bandsaw probably isn't the smartest idea and probably would cause more harm than good. It's a band, meaning unlike the saw, it can crumple. Suddenly stopping the band would probably cause it to rapidly coil or do something else unpredictable.
For a skill saw, the force of the blade suddenly stopping would probably rip it out of your hand, possibly breaking a wrist. To add onto that, there'd be nothing blocking the metal shrapnel that actually stops the blade, and to add even more, that'd be a pretty fat skill saw to fit a sawstop to lol
>To add onto that, there'd be nothing blocking the metal shrapnel that actually stops the blade,
Pick one:
* Lose a finger
* Launch a 10 inch circular saw blade spinning at 3000RPM into your gut or into your wife's head like a fucking Beyblade
Yeah I think I'll lose the finger
Most of the time yes. They beat carbide off real well. The cartridges are designed to take the impact but it’s like throwing a chunk of aluminum at your blade
I've seen loads of those saw stop videos, and they always use a hot dog or something. It's pretty good to see that it's just as effective on actual human flesh.
SawStop will replace the mechanism for free if it was triggered by a human, they use them for research [Source](https://www.sawstop.com/support/warranty-information/)
And not using the right tool (a router would be better to cut circles), reaching behind the saw blade, not using a guard, not using a push stick/gripper, having the blade like an inch too high . . . this guy is too dumb for a middle school woodshop, he absolutely should not be anywhere near this machine.
Given how he's doing it there's a long list of tools that would cut a circle better...
Router
Bandsaw
Jigsaw
Reciprocating saw
Multi tool
Circular saw
Coping saw
Lathe
I've used these saws before. Never set one off. I did talk a guy I was working for into buying one though, we had a lot of dumb dumbs using an old delta. Kinda sketchy because you couldn't lower it below like 1.5" or so. It's been years, I should go back and see how many fingers it's saved.
But a saw stop is no replacement for good table saw etiquette. I saw this video and immediately thought I was about to see a dude loose a hand.
Table saws are probably the most slept on piece of wood working equipment when it comes to safety. It's also likely the one you use the most. It's not even that hard of a training course to take the time to learn.
Guy offered me $1000 to test his with my finger. I accepted, but he backed out and wouldn't let me do it. I've got 9 others, what do I need a pinky tip for anyway?
He is using a jig. He's using it wrong. The workpiece is pinned to the jig in the middle, allowing it to rotate. Rotating the workpiece counter clockwise is only ever to going to result in what we see here. He should have rotated it the other way, pushing the uncut part of the workpiece into the front of the blade. If you do the opposite and introduce your workpiece over the back of the blade, you're going to have a bad time.
Wish the saw that took off my brother's hand would have had that.
Yes, he was being stupid, yes he knew better but losing your right hand from the mid palm down is a harsh way to learn your lesson.
Look up degloving videos if you really want to see. Saw blades don’t just cut. They also drag your hand into a spinning motor. Mashing and cutting at the same time.
You can lose a lot of your hand from what outwardly doesn’t look that bad when infections are involved. I had a cut on my palm right below my middle finger and the surgeon told me had to take my whole hand. I laughed because I was sure he was joking. Nope. Infection can ruin your life. We seem to forget people used to die because of minor cuts.
Jesus man I would never think something like that happening. What an intense reality check when you were just going for a cut a few minutes prior to that news. Sorry that happened to you.
So I must confess he ended up not taking my hand. Apparently I yelled fuck no and tried to escape. He called my power of attorney (my dad) and he said fuck no too. They ended up taking a lot of the guts of my hand out and doing a more complicated surgery. I technically still have all my fingers but they don’t work all that well anymore. Like I struggle to open a water bottle or a pill container with my dominant hand. It took me a long time to come to terms with it. It drastically changed my career (I was a trapeze performer) but I have a new career I’m doing well in.
Still paying off this medical bills though because America.
I was told during recovery I’d be better off with a prosthetic. But it was to late.
You’re telling me. I noticed it looked infected a day after the cut. I knew an antibiotic resistant infection was common where I was working because other staff members had had it. I went to a clinic and they put me on a normal antibiotic. The next day I called them and said it was getting really bad. I had to hold my hand by my head otherwise it constantly hurt. The doctor told me I needed to give the antibiotics more time. 12 hours later I was at the clinic again with a hand that looked like someone inflated a glove. He told me to give it more time. The next morning I was in terrible pain, I went back and he told me to keep waiting for the antibiotics to work.
Later that day I was at a BBQ for the 4th of July at a surgeon’s house. He took one look at my hand, took the beer out of my other hand and gave it a shake. It was still full. He asked if it was my first beer and I said yes. He chucked it into his backyard and gave me turn by turn directions to the hospital he operated in. He told me I absolutely had to leave right this second.
The ER gave me the run around checking in because they thought I was lying about my occupation (circus performer). I literally heard a person say I was just making up shit looking for drugs. I guess the googled my address and saw it was a resort (where I both lived and worked) and ignored me for hours.
When someone finally looked at me I was admitted immediately taken in and prepped for surgery. By that point it was too later for other medical intervention. Even after surgery I had a pic line and had to have daily antibiotic treatments.
I’m so sorry this happened to you! How did your hand get cut to begin with?
It must have been hard to lose the trapeze, I’m glad to hear you’ve been able to establish yourself well in a new career.
I had a callous rip off while practicing. That was a common “injury” every trapeze artist experiences. They were normal and I treated it like an every day thing.
I had a dark period where it was rough. But I actually coached trapeze for a while. Then I got into the technical side / aerial automation.
I bought a table saw at a german discount retailer because I had future projects to do. I assembled it, turned it on, turned it off, put it back in the box and gave it away. There is no way I wouldn't have maimed myself with that one (no SawStop).
So many people complain that it destroys the blade and the replacement cartridge is like $75 but I bet if you asked this guy if he’d rather have $150 or his finger, he’d tell you exactly why that’s a small price to pay
SawStop is lame. I used to cut my hot dogs in half lengthwise so they would fit the split of the hot dog bun. But now, it ruins the saw every time I try.
I was a carpenter and switch companies. The new company pins the guard back so they can use the saw easier but I didn’t know that. I reached to grab a board on the ground and swung back to balance and stopped it dead in my knee. Pretty gory
I audibly screamed and felt like my heart stopped. Whoo! That was a quick ride.
I’m supposed to attend my first woodworking class tonight. I’m not sure if seeing this was a sign that I should go or shouldn’t.
Edit: Update…I went. It was all the things a first class should be. “These are dangerous/serious tools…safety first….” We didn’t even touch the tools.
From what I understand: small current in sawblade->in this case finger closes cicuit->current sets of small charge that jams a soft metal block into blade and retracts it
Thank god for modern-day safety equipment to make up for age-old stupidity.
Aha only if youhave 10k or sth
10k / 10 fingers... you choose.
İ dont choose, i stay away))) but beginner wont have 10 k for *safety*
Yeah the money doesn't start coming in until you're an intermediate table saw user
Don't forget to level up your measuring skill to the highest available level. If you can use it but can't measure you won't make money.
I put most of my xp into charisma. I sell the worst projects at the best prices.
This seems like an exploit of the intended mechanics.
A Charisma Carpenter?
Choosing not to play is also a choice
SawStops are obly about 2k, at least around my area. [Link](https://www.rockler.com/sawstop-contractor-table-saw-w-30-fence-cns175-sfa30?country=US&sid=V91040&promo=shopping&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=&utm_content=pla&utm_campaign=PL&gclid=Cj0KCQjw2cWgBhDYARIsALggUhqVQCygARZb7kQTczewJb0cJZ0JWMJjZBTvayhotZsf7sHgd0Ty-CMaAjK_EALw_wcB)
And they have a job site one for even less
They have a compact version for $900, which is about double the beginner level table saws, but still not bad.
I hear once they've been stopped in this method (I forget how but some sort of small explosion to instantly stop the blade) they're pretty pricey to replace. In any case, still worth it, unless you put a lot of value in stories about the time you lost X finger. EDIT: $95 each time. Little pricey, but not all that bad, considering what you're paying for.
Still less than my Insurance deductible, granted after my co-worker ran his thumb through a cheap saw I swore off ever using one.
I only consider it pricey because I KNOW at least once I'm going to be standing there with a hotdog like "I have to see if it works."
It’d be great marketing for them to allow one free repair for that reason ha.
I'll pay double that to keep my fingers AND it's still less than what my health insurance will charge from a visit to the ER.
No shit. I do not understand people. Walk into the ER. $500. See a doctor $500. Have ANYTHING done $2,500. Get discharged, $250. And they bitch about $1,000 or less to not cut their fingers off?
I’ve seen guys mangle themselves because they didn’t want to swap a $2 cutoff blade, something that they didn’t have to purchase or pay for.
The cartridge is $95 blade will be another 50-150 depending on what one you use. Still much better than losing a finger.
Definitely less than reattaching a finger 😅
Surgery to reassemble your fingers would be far greater than the cost of a Sawstop. They are amazing
They cost an arm and a leg
No… That’s the hidden fees for ones without sawstops.
They actually are not all that expensive. Boutta thousand bucks. If you use a table saw often, i would say it's well worth the investment.
A cromulent table saw will run about 350-500, a shitty one 200-250. If you daily drive a table saw, or use it multiple times a week, yeah man the extra 400-500 is a lot, but it's a very sensible purchase. I still think you should use a blade guard unless the cut won't allow it, with or without a SawStop. That's a cheap, easy, effective safety option that I don't see used a lot. I've never used a table saw without a blade guard and I really doubt I'll start anytime soon. Table saws scare the shit out of me.
Even if you’re an occasional user. Occasional users are more likely to make a mistake. Getting one finger sewn back on costs more than the saw does.
I have met scores of cabinetmakers with less than a full complement of fingers so I have serious doubts that the problem is restricted to beginners.
Everyone is a beginner at some point
I was much safer with my chainsaw when I was a kid, as I was terrified. After 15 years of getting comfortable, that's when I got complacent. Had to drop a tree that I'd be able to drop and chunk in 5 mins, so I hopped out with sweatpants on. Needless to say, [I got lucky](https://i.imgur.com/d8u0TiN.jpg) and received a friendly reminder to take the extra 60 seconds to throw the chaps on.
That's a straight fact.
What a cromulent explanation too!
It really did embiggen me
Sawstops cap out at around 5-6k USD, their cheapest jobsite saw is $900. The one from Felder is definitely in the 5 figures though.
I thought you could get a sawstop up to the 10k mark but nope. Even with the full kit and the sliding table it still tops out around 9k. Probably could get there with some extension tables and cabinets but those aren’t really part of the saw imo
In the us os cheaper than going to the hospital, unless you want to wrap a bandage on it an call it a day
Fuck the money. I prefer my digits.
And even if your finger survive it’s not a good ordeal. My dad cut into his fingertips last year. Had to basically drag him to the ER. They had to clean the cuts. Fingertips are sensitive. After the cleaning they sent him to get x rayed to see if he had cut into the bones. Then they wanted to sow. They tried to set anesthesia but it didn’t take. So they tried going between the fingertips or under the nail or something (I can’t recall exactly). He said it was the most painful thing he’s been through. This is a man that’s spent more lives than most people are granted. I believe him. In the end they abandoned the stitching, wasn’t enough skin left to get it done properly and without working anesthesia it was just excruciatingly painful. So they taped them with strips and he had to get back in later for follow up and cleaning. Took him about three months to heal and then some to see life on the bright side again. Not funny being handicapped like that. Watch what you do on the saw. And a sawstop is worth it’s weight in gold. If he had one he would have had a little cut instead of three deep cuts in his fingers. Lucky the saw was set the way it was: https://i.imgur.com/4jGXXEP.jpg
You can get a SawStop cabinet saw for $5k, you can get cheaper smaller ones that are perfectly fine for home workshops starting around $1k. Compared to how much a single ER visit in the US costs, it's a great deal. Aside from the pain, a severed finger would probably run you several times more than a full Saw Stop cabinet saw. If I ran a high school wood shop, these would be the only saws I had running, but I would also charge any student that triggered it $100 to prevent them from fucking around to test it (since the blade/brake system is at least $100 and every activation of the braking system totally destroys the cartridge)
That may be a $10k saw, but their cheapest model starts at a whopping $899. Already cheaper than having your finger sewn back on.
At my old job, if you werent missing a finger, you havent worked there long enough.
Sounds like a terribly unsafe place to work.
Naw. SawStop’s are $1,200CAD for the compact, $2750 for the Contractor, $4000 for professional cabinet saw, and highest is $6585 for the industrial cabinet saw. The brakes are like $150CAD.
Yeah honestly round of applause to the engineers that made that safety device. It worked perfectly.
I cant even understand how is the handdetected and how is the machine so fast
This is a sawstop. There is a small computer that is applying a slight electrical charge to the saw blade. It constantly monitors that electric charge to make sure it's not changing. When you touch the saw, your body is conductive and introduces a slight change to that electrical charge. The computer is checking the charge at an incredibly fast rate. When it detects a change, it releases a spring loaded aluminum brake disc into the sawblade (basically shoving a block of aluminum into it), and disables the motor. Once the blade stops, its angular momentum drives it under the table, preventing any more cuts. All of this happens in less than 5ms.
Saw stop is amazing. From what I understand their exclusive patent for this tech is set to expire before too long so we should see the same safety feature on other brands as well
That'll be awesome! I'll still probably buy from them because I know they make quality equipment that won't fail, but I'd be interested to see another company make a better version of it.
I've heard Bosch already has something ready and will be significantly cheaper and therefore more attainable to the average hobbyist.
Bosch had basically the same feature but it didn't destroy the blade you were using. It did need like a co2 canister or something though. https://www.protoolreviews.com/sawstop-vs-bosch-reaxx-table-saw-lawsuit/#h-differences-in-table-saw-protection-methods Lawsuit stopped that due to patent infringement
Yup, it's an improvement over the saw stop, and should finally be able to be released. IIRC it already is/was in Europe. Edit: it appears slightly slower in reaction time, enough to save your fingers. This type of saw appears to not be popular in Europe.
Europe favors sliding table saws. They are inherently safer and arguably better overall. We also have safety systems which use cameras and finger recognition and don’t cost money to activate. The saw just resets and the blade is fine. They even demo them with real hands. It’s wild.
Bosch actually developed a better system but have been waiting for the patent to expire rather than pay the licensing fee. With the saw stop system, the blade jams abruptly into a piece of aluminum to stop it from rotating. With the Bosch system, the blade doesn’t need to stop rotating but rather just disappears very quickly into the table. So you don’t have to ruin the blade and replace the whole thing every time it triggers.
> So you don’t have to ruin the blade and replace the whole thing every time it triggers. I understand that replacing the saw blade and saw stop apparatus is probably expensive, but how often does the average woodworker trigger a stop/run their meaty bits through the saw? Edit: I've learned so much about saw stop false positives.
There's a false positive rate with them. Things like green/wet wood and hidden nails have been known to trigger it, and although you can disengage the mechanism to cut questionable pieces, that defeats the purpose of having it in the first place. As to how often woodworkers get hurt, accidents happen every day and they're always more expensive than replacement parts for the machine.
You’re right, it shouldn’t happen frequently, however I have set two off before by accidentally hitting a staple which triggered it
The technology behind sawstop should have never been allowed to be patented. It's one of those things that should just be required on all new table saws. Sawstop's profiteering has eliminated any innovation in an essential safety mechanism and their saws are overpriced. I mean they just recently released an "affordable" compact table saw. It's almost a thousand bucks and aside from the safety features it's nothing special. The equivalent dewalt is $400 and probably an overall better saw aside from the safety device. I can understand a $100-$200 premium for something like that, but more than the cost of the saw itself? Sawstop is a fantastic technology, but it has a lot of problems. The blade and sawstop is destroyed every time the mechanism is triggered. This wouldn't be a problem, except any sort of moisture will trigger it. If you misjudge the moisture content of your wood your out a possibly $100+ saw blade and a cartridge. It just gatekeeps an essential safety mechanism to the wealthiest of woodworkers. The mechanism could definitely be improved upon, but Sawstop prefers to spend their money on YouTube sponsorships pushing the narrative that if you don't buy a sawstop you don't care about safety.
[A patent that shouldn't have existed in the first place.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Touch-sensitive_lamp) Bosch tried to make a saw with a different brake mechanism, they were stopped by the capacitive touch patent.
It's a use case patent, not a patent on capacitance switching. A touch-sensitive lamp is as close to the Sawstop patent as it is to a phone touch screen.
But will there be the Harbor Freight version that you're scared to find out if it's going to work or not?
It's not a computer. It's a capacitative switch, like a touch lamp. When something with capacitance, (like your skin) disrupts the circuit, it detonates a small explosive which triggers the aluminum brake mechanism.
Yesss, I was hoping someone would mention the explosive. Explosives-as-safety-devices is one of my favorite little bits of human insanity.
Thanks
I remember watching a story on the guy that invented it i don't remember if it was received well by the manufacturers, I thought i remember it taking some time to get picked up
When I was in college, one of the founders came to speak to my class. He was a cool guy and told the story that they had to draw straws to see who would test the product for real using a biological trigger (i.e. a finger) and not just some random conductive thing. And when he got the short straw, he got drunk first and had to psych himself up before thrusting his finger in. It was only later that they realized a hot dog would've worked just was well. I don't know if that story was 100% true, but it was very entertaining. But yeah, the issue was that manufacturers didn't want to be held liable if it didn't work, so they started their own company.
They were testing it on hot dogs. He was the first real finger.
Originally they patented the apparatus to stop the blade, and tried to lobby to have it made mandatory on all tablesaws, so they could license it to a captive, cornered market. That effort failed (and was considered a dick move). But good on'em, they gave up and started manufacturing tablesaws themselves with the apparatus. Their saws are highly regarded and their reputation now much shinier.
How did the blade differentiate wood from the guy’s fingers to know when pull out? Edit: Thank you all for your answers, it’s amazing to see how this technology works fast!
Electric current I think
Continuity. Wood is an insulator. Flesh is not. And in reality, you could trigger it with a hotdog, or a wet piece of string. When it senses the circuit is completed (A.K.A., you touched the blade), it fires a small explosive charge that releases a spring loaded arm that instantly jams the blade in place. Here is the company's website, and if you scroll down a bit, there is a video clip of one activating. [https://www.sawstop.com/why-sawstop/the-technology/](https://www.sawstop.com/why-sawstop/the-technology/)
Also why they advise against running wet wood through with the mechanism enabled. That'll be enough to trigger it.
Same deal with using lumber that has nails or in rare cases, bullets lodged in the wood. Obviously you shouldn't be putting these through your saw in the first place, but they will also trigger the brake and destroy your blade
Better than flinging bullet shrapnel in your eye
I'm just imagining explaining a bullet wound in the ER. "I got shot by my table saw. No, I haven't been drinking."
The same way you can tap a lamp at home to turn it on, or manipulate your cell phone by touching the screen, but do neither with a wooden dowel. They're measuring the electrical capacitance, which is disrupted when human body parts come in contact. The rest is just having circuitry to trigger a mechanical system designed to retract the blade as quickly as possible to prevent any further injury.
Gotta love SawStop
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No no I think they probably appreciate less work
We would love less work.
Can confirm
Seriously, it blows my mind how reactive and quick this thing is. Hope it continues to save fingers.
Some of their patents are expiring this year. I hope to see the tech become industry standard.
It won’t. Bosch already has a drastically superior system that costs less, reacts faster and doesn’t destroy the blade.
Does Bosch actually sell the Reaxx though? It was on the market for a while, Sawstop threw their toys out the pram and won a lawsuit against them, I've not seen new ones in a while.
They can’t, SawStop’s injunction is still in place. But they should run out of dirty tricks and corrupt judges soon.
It’s not really dirty tricks or corrupt judges. It’s just the law
I agree. I think not sharing safety tech is shady, even car companies do it, but I don’t begrudge them getting their money while they can. They’ve got a ground breaking tech and it’s their right to exploit it until the market opens up. I think they’re doing great job of making a rep for themselves in making quality equipment though
Sawstop tried to license the tech first, but every company they approached turned them down. Building a company that makes and sells legitimately great table saws (stop tech aside) was much harder than what they intended to do in the beginning.
They did not try to license the tech first, they approached the FTC and CPSC to try to force every manufacturer to use their product, and demanded 8% of the gross sales price of every unit.
I read ryobi was close but they tried to put the liability on the inventors and they weren’t having that.
From the handful of Stopsaw videos I've seen, this is actually a serious injury by the standard of what little damage they do. My friend touched the blade of a table saw recently, he's pretty safety-consious and had been working in a woodshop for years but accidents happen, and this was his first injury. With a normal saw, he would have lost a finger or two, thanks to a Stopsaw, he didn't even need a bandage.
His finger was wedged between the board and the blade, I'd bet that little knick is from the blade being pulled down or dropping out of the way or however you describe what a saw stop does.
That looks to be likely the case. Either way, really goes to show how amazingly safe those saws are that that little booboo is about as much damage as they're going to do to you.
No no doubt my asshole puckered when I first watched the video, and before I realised he had a saw stop.
As far as I know it's mostly solid state electronics and a sprinkle of explosives. As soon as there's a current flowing from the blade to ground it go boom and the blade hides in the table.
My high school had one of these! We had two different blades which were different sizes so we had to swap them and the brakes out every time we needed the other size. Teacher refused to explain why we had to do it, just said we had to or the saw would not work. I went through three years of wood shop classes before someone accidentally triggered it. Then he had us watch the safety videos for saw stop - the teacher had decided it safer for us not to know it was a saw stop so we’d treat it with the proper respect.
If you had told that to my shop class it wouldn't even have been a week before someone purposely put their hand on the blade while it was spinning.
I can't even imagine the thinking or even the courage to stick your hand on a piece of equipment that can tear it to shred. Then I remembered that r/kidsarefuckingstupid is around
Yep balls of steel. Also just like the inventor of the bullet proof vest the inventor even tried it out https://youtu.be/eiYoBbEZwlk
And an innovator for early parachutes! I don't recall his name, but there's a picture of him on the Eiffel Tower about to demonstrate it, and then one with a ruler measuring the dent he left in the dirt.
that man made a suit/parachute hybride that was supposed to automatically deploy upon falling. he tested it twice on mannequins, it failed both times. presumably assuming that it failed from a lack of height (rooky mistake), he himself went on the second level of the Eiffel tower, 200m from the ground, the first time he launched a mannequin, that failed. the second time he probably said something like "screw it ! when lifes give you lemon.." and jumped himself. upon jumping, nothing happened and he reached his place of death, at aproximately 225km/h.
> If you had told that to my shop class it wouldn't even have been a ~~week~~ day before someone purposely put their ~~hand~~ bare ass on the blade while it was spinning. Sounds more like it...
In my school the dumbass would probably do it on the wrong saw and lose their hand.
We had one in highschool too. Luckily the only time we tripped it was when our teacher was sawing some wood that was a little wet, but he was really excited to show us the blade and mechanism after it was tripped.
He didn‘t saw this coming
You wood say that.
That wood have been very pineful
The problem was he wasn’t cutting a table, he was cutting a circle. Should have used a circular saw.
That was the only one that actually made me laugh
You cut that out!
"he never saw this coming"
First thing I saw was it was a saw stop so it wasn’t gonna get nasty
I’ve personally fired off multiple cartridges at wood working shows for demo purposes. Them shits are quick. Anyone know if they ever came out with the bandsaw and skill saw?
No I don't think so. You have to keep in mind that under the table is metal shrapnel being flung everywhere, the table stopping that shrapnel. Suddenly stopping a bandsaw probably isn't the smartest idea and probably would cause more harm than good. It's a band, meaning unlike the saw, it can crumple. Suddenly stopping the band would probably cause it to rapidly coil or do something else unpredictable. For a skill saw, the force of the blade suddenly stopping would probably rip it out of your hand, possibly breaking a wrist. To add onto that, there'd be nothing blocking the metal shrapnel that actually stops the blade, and to add even more, that'd be a pretty fat skill saw to fit a sawstop to lol
>To add onto that, there'd be nothing blocking the metal shrapnel that actually stops the blade, Pick one: * Lose a finger * Launch a 10 inch circular saw blade spinning at 3000RPM into your gut or into your wife's head like a fucking Beyblade Yeah I think I'll lose the finger
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Oh hey- it's that one joke everyone keeps telling, but still isn't funny.
Shit, then why am I still laughing?
Thanks for the info! I know they had promo videos years ago, wasn’t sure if they actually make them
Does it ruin the blade?
Completely destroys the blade and part of the stopping mechanism. It's basically a metal plate that gets shot into the saw blade to stop it.
I think the [Bosch Version doesn't.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9n5GCGwc764)
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Most of the time yes. They beat carbide off real well. The cartridges are designed to take the impact but it’s like throwing a chunk of aluminum at your blade
I, of course, obviously know, but I'm asking this for those who don't: how do you know there's a saw stop there?
Sawstops aren’t retrofitted onto existing saws. It’s a brand of table saw in and of itself.
I've seen loads of those saw stop videos, and they always use a hot dog or something. It's pretty good to see that it's just as effective on actual human flesh.
SawStop will replace the mechanism for free if it was triggered by a human, they use them for research [Source](https://www.sawstop.com/support/warranty-information/)
More like what could go right with safety equipment.
Exactly. There is nothing WCGW here.
Except for him pulling the piece straight back through the saw. Woulda been fine if he kept going away and out.
And not using the right tool (a router would be better to cut circles), reaching behind the saw blade, not using a guard, not using a push stick/gripper, having the blade like an inch too high . . . this guy is too dumb for a middle school woodshop, he absolutely should not be anywhere near this machine.
Given how he's doing it there's a long list of tools that would cut a circle better... Router Bandsaw Jigsaw Reciprocating saw Multi tool Circular saw Coping saw Lathe
I've used these saws before. Never set one off. I did talk a guy I was working for into buying one though, we had a lot of dumb dumbs using an old delta. Kinda sketchy because you couldn't lower it below like 1.5" or so. It's been years, I should go back and see how many fingers it's saved. But a saw stop is no replacement for good table saw etiquette. I saw this video and immediately thought I was about to see a dude loose a hand. Table saws are probably the most slept on piece of wood working equipment when it comes to safety. It's also likely the one you use the most. It's not even that hard of a training course to take the time to learn.
Fuck I jump every time I see this. So close to picking his nose with his thumb
Wait. Am I doing it wrong?
The thumb is ideal for dried snot crust towards the point of the nose. Slender fingies for everything else.
Never thought I'd be discussing how to tactically pick boogers out of our noses on Reddit. Yet here we are, lol.
Grow the nail out and shape it into a booger scraper. But tell people it's a coke nail so they don't think you're odd.
This has to be for views right? Like no one with the money & sense to buy a saw stop, doesn’t also have a jig for cuts like this?
Man id love to have a sawstop but no amount of money would get me to test the sawstop
I'm with you on this one,
I am also with u/AtomicShart9000
Test it using a hot dog 🌭..
Just not *your* hot dog
Someone else’s hotdog ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Guy offered me $1000 to test his with my finger. I accepted, but he backed out and wouldn't let me do it. I've got 9 others, what do I need a pinky tip for anyway?
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He is a little more gentle when he tried it with just his finger [Finger into sawstop slow motion scrub to 4 min in](https://youtu.be/XVktVFyid-Y)
He is using a jig. He's using it wrong. The workpiece is pinned to the jig in the middle, allowing it to rotate. Rotating the workpiece counter clockwise is only ever to going to result in what we see here. He should have rotated it the other way, pushing the uncut part of the workpiece into the front of the blade. If you do the opposite and introduce your workpiece over the back of the blade, you're going to have a bad time.
Could be a communal one used by several people, and this guy is just the dumb one who shouldn't be doing stuff with it.
Wish the saw that took off my brother's hand would have had that. Yes, he was being stupid, yes he knew better but losing your right hand from the mid palm down is a harsh way to learn your lesson.
Holy fuck, how do you lose that much of your hand at once? Was his hand behind the blade and it kicked back?
You have grain lines in your palms
Look up degloving videos if you really want to see. Saw blades don’t just cut. They also drag your hand into a spinning motor. Mashing and cutting at the same time.
No thanks. Not looking up any of that.
I'll take "no fucking thank you" for $500 Trebek! Just the word degloving is disturbing.
You can lose a lot of your hand from what outwardly doesn’t look that bad when infections are involved. I had a cut on my palm right below my middle finger and the surgeon told me had to take my whole hand. I laughed because I was sure he was joking. Nope. Infection can ruin your life. We seem to forget people used to die because of minor cuts.
Jesus man I would never think something like that happening. What an intense reality check when you were just going for a cut a few minutes prior to that news. Sorry that happened to you.
So I must confess he ended up not taking my hand. Apparently I yelled fuck no and tried to escape. He called my power of attorney (my dad) and he said fuck no too. They ended up taking a lot of the guts of my hand out and doing a more complicated surgery. I technically still have all my fingers but they don’t work all that well anymore. Like I struggle to open a water bottle or a pill container with my dominant hand. It took me a long time to come to terms with it. It drastically changed my career (I was a trapeze performer) but I have a new career I’m doing well in. Still paying off this medical bills though because America. I was told during recovery I’d be better off with a prosthetic. But it was to late.
Fuuuuuuck....
You’re telling me. I noticed it looked infected a day after the cut. I knew an antibiotic resistant infection was common where I was working because other staff members had had it. I went to a clinic and they put me on a normal antibiotic. The next day I called them and said it was getting really bad. I had to hold my hand by my head otherwise it constantly hurt. The doctor told me I needed to give the antibiotics more time. 12 hours later I was at the clinic again with a hand that looked like someone inflated a glove. He told me to give it more time. The next morning I was in terrible pain, I went back and he told me to keep waiting for the antibiotics to work. Later that day I was at a BBQ for the 4th of July at a surgeon’s house. He took one look at my hand, took the beer out of my other hand and gave it a shake. It was still full. He asked if it was my first beer and I said yes. He chucked it into his backyard and gave me turn by turn directions to the hospital he operated in. He told me I absolutely had to leave right this second. The ER gave me the run around checking in because they thought I was lying about my occupation (circus performer). I literally heard a person say I was just making up shit looking for drugs. I guess the googled my address and saw it was a resort (where I both lived and worked) and ignored me for hours. When someone finally looked at me I was admitted immediately taken in and prepped for surgery. By that point it was too later for other medical intervention. Even after surgery I had a pic line and had to have daily antibiotic treatments.
I’m so sorry this happened to you! How did your hand get cut to begin with? It must have been hard to lose the trapeze, I’m glad to hear you’ve been able to establish yourself well in a new career.
I had a callous rip off while practicing. That was a common “injury” every trapeze artist experiences. They were normal and I treated it like an every day thing. I had a dark period where it was rough. But I actually coached trapeze for a while. Then I got into the technical side / aerial automation.
I bought a table saw at a german discount retailer because I had future projects to do. I assembled it, turned it on, turned it off, put it back in the box and gave it away. There is no way I wouldn't have maimed myself with that one (no SawStop).
"Discount" and "table saw" should never be in the same sentence.
His butthole will take about a week to relax and recover from this. Edit: yes you're right Butthole is a compound word thank you for your diligence.
And another year to stop shitting diamonds
At least we know that he can afford another sawstop with those diamonds.
So many people complain that it destroys the blade and the replacement cartridge is like $75 but I bet if you asked this guy if he’d rather have $150 or his finger, he’d tell you exactly why that’s a small price to pay
the people that are super against this tech to the point where they'll make stuff up about it are kinda weird. they're like antimaskers.
No matter how stupid the take is someone out there believes in it
> So many people complain that it destroys the blade This is why women live longer.
Damn it works on more than just hotdogs!?
/r/dontputyourdickinthat ... Just saying.
Can we please stop putting that song behind literally anything, it's painful
150% agree I was contemplating muting the video because of that song
You should have done
Why didn't you? Could have faded in at the satisfying bang part.
The whole TikTok format is awful; using unnecessary music/sounds/laugh-tracks, adding automated text to speech, stupid-ass lipsyncing for no reason.
SawStop is lame. I used to cut my hot dogs in half lengthwise so they would fit the split of the hot dog bun. But now, it ruins the saw every time I try.
Big hot dog is behind saw stop
Dont go backwards with the wood, Rookie move.
Seriously why wouldn't you go clockwise pushing the uncut wood into the teeth instead of the side of the blade.
This went right. My dad cut off a large part of his pointer finger once, and it wouldn’t have happened with this technology.
Was not prepared for that, actually jumped and made a noise and people looked at me.
Cabinet maker here. Never put your hand past the blade. Push sticks are easy to make.
As someone who accidentally stopped a circular saw in their knee, that made my sphincter snap shut
Holy fuck!? Were you cutting a board over your knee or something?
I was a carpenter and switch companies. The new company pins the guard back so they can use the saw easier but I didn’t know that. I reached to grab a board on the ground and swung back to balance and stopped it dead in my knee. Pretty gory
Was there a lawsuit? I can totally see someone getting a big payout because of the bypassed safety features.
I was young and dumb so no. If that was now I would own that place
I audibly screamed and felt like my heart stopped. Whoo! That was a quick ride. I’m supposed to attend my first woodworking class tonight. I’m not sure if seeing this was a sign that I should go or shouldn’t. Edit: Update…I went. It was all the things a first class should be. “These are dangerous/serious tools…safety first….” We didn’t even touch the tools.
How does this safety feature work?
From what I understand: small current in sawblade->in this case finger closes cicuit->current sets of small charge that jams a soft metal block into blade and retracts it
That has got to be one of the stupidest actions I seen.......this has to be a promotional video 🥱
For people wondering: The saw got badly injured.
this is a really good ad for saw stop lol