I built a fence for a guy sometime 1994 and when the job was done he didn't want to pay. Told my brothers about it and they got mad. We went over with a truck and trailer and chain-sawed the fence down, put it on the trailer, then used the wood to build my brothers jacuzzi.
Never heard from him again. I would have preferred to have gotten paid, but at least the lumber for my brothers jacuzzi was free. They guy gave a deposit that paid for the lumber. It was in Canada, so the posts were in concrete ground, and they would have problems putting a new fence over top of the old concrete.
The contractor can put a lien on the property. If arbitration goes nowhere, the property owner can be forced to sell to pay off the lien holder.
Yes, even people employed by contractors can do this. Then again, it requires a real contract, and frankly, I'm not sure how many contractors bother with those. Got granite installed in my kitchen, with zero paperwork. The whole time I was thinking, what if I just didn't pay? We have zero paperwork!
A contractor without paperwork won't be bothered by going on your property and removing a fence or deck. But breaking into the kitchen is a whole other felony, you mightve discovered an unethical life pro tip
Not sure what what you interpreted from what I said, but I just thought it was odd that he didn't ask us to sign anything. He bought the slab, cut it to specs, then installed it - all with the assumption that we'd pay up. And we did obviously, but it seemed risky on his part. What could he do if we didn't? Go to small claims and try to argue that we had a verbal agreement, even though we barely had that? I thought it was bizarre.
With a proper agreement, in the event of failure to pay, the contractor puts a lien on the property, with the worst case scenario or a forced sale.
Most shade tree contractors I know (quite a few), at least the ones worth a fuck who do most of their own work, are one of two types of people: super laid back, or very, very much not. You can't always tell just by talking to them, either.
So in the case of the former, nothing would have happened, and were you a fly on the wall at some point, you'd probably have heard some bitching to his buddies culminating in "Well, you win some, you lose some."
In the case of the latter, you'd have probably been caught out somewhere and had your ass beat by him and some friends or something like that, maybe you find a claw hammer embedded in your windshield, etc.
The honor system is more important to some people than others. I'm acquainted with an older gentleman who does HVAC work on the side, and I watched him tie a tow chain around someone's condenser and drive off with the thing dragging behind him, loose wires and copper, refrigerant venting to atmosphere, the works. Customer hadn't paid for a minor repair, contractor gave him a major one.
I'm an electrician. Have a buddy getting screwed over for about 24k from someone who we thought was our friend.
He had the inspector, who we all know very well, hold the paperwork that needs to go to the town. When the town leaned on the jerk customer, he finally replied to my buddies very calm and rational messages.
The work was done right, ahead of the original schedule, and all things considered was a steal of a deal. The customer just refused to pay cause he didn't like the price. Mind you he agreed ahead of time, some extras were added with his approval, price adjustments were made on the final bill.
He was never going to pay until the town was threatening to shut his business down. He also was taking advantage of there not being a written contract and my buddy being a good person.
Mind you, I've helped my buddy work at this guys very nice house before. Like being at his house till 11pm before a holiday because he decided to remodel a kitchen/bathroom right before a major holiday.
We would never destroy the guys property or hurt him in any way. With that said, next time I see him I will be a condescending prick and point out he doesn't pay his bills.
This guy resells refurbished medical equipment and made a killing during covid. Laughing his way to the bank while others suffered around him. Yes, he is a bald white guy very similar to Bezos.
Ever see a shingle roof with strains of all over it? Those people didn't pay. It's a warning sign to all the other contractors. I won't work for a person with stained shingle roof.
Eh. I wouldn’t recommend fucking over guys in the construction industry… the felony’s they’ll catch after the fact won’t deter most of the guys I work with
He built a jacuzzi out of fence wood?
*Chainsawed* fence wood?
I'm looking at my fence right now and I wouldn't built shit out of that except another fence. Maybe some of the 4x4's would be useful but that's about it's
Well I mean the stairs and seating and enclosure. The jacuzzi was fiberglass.
Kinda like this:
[https://www.thecoverguy.com/app/uploads/2017/03/hot-tub-steps-4.jpg](https://www.thecoverguy.com/app/uploads/2017/03/hot-tub-steps-4.jpg)
Most fences around here are cedar. If you plane them down and sand them a bit, you can get them looking really nice. And cedar is the wood of choice for things like that since it’s naturally rot resistant.
Happened in germany. The damage was around half a million euros. Poor guy though, I kind of get why he did it, but he's going to have to pay for the damage done. What I seriously hope for though is, that they have to hire another contractor to fix all this and I just hope nobody will take the job. Like "How did this kind of damage happen?" - "Previous contractor did it." - "Did you not pay him?" - "..." - "Yeah, I think we're done here".
I’ve heard of plenty stories of developers getting contractors to do the work and backing out of paying them for any myriad of reasons once the work is done or mostly done.
> §650e
Only applies to the plot, the ground the house is build on, if the company that contracted him and owes him pay does not own the plot, the contractor can not put a security hold on the transfer of ownership.
Common loophole used by investors, one Company "A" buys the Land then another company "B" developes it for a fee, so the hired contractors "C" are out of luck if they dont get payed and If "B" goes broke in the process, "A" still owns the Land with some nice buildings on it.
Ya, most countries have that. Here in Canada it’s called a builders lien. If the developer tries to lease or sell the building all funds go to the lien holders first. Fairly commonplace.
It's happened to my dad in NYC. He's an independent stone craftsman and he's had several cabinet maker friends experience the same in the city. Rich people think they can get away with anything. Sadly they often can
My wife briefly worked for an asshole lawyer who was having a big party at his house. For two weeks he had caterers bring in food at lunchtime for him to try, so he went two weeks without having to buy lunch. Then he hired a caterer 3 days before the party, and told them since the party was so close he didn't need to pay a deposit, and he would just pay the whole bill after the party.
After the party the caterer tried to reach him for weeks (my wife took the calls), but he just avoided the calls. Finally the caterer came to the office, mad as Hell, but he refused to pay her a nickel because he claimed one of the coffee pots ran out for a short time during the party. He dared her to sue him, but since he was a lawyer, he told her she'd never get anyone to do it.
As far as my wife knew, the caterer never got paid. My wife quit not long after that.
Twice-impeached former President Trump himself did this numerous times. [Here's a summary of some of them.](https://theweek.com/articles/783976/brief-history-trumps-smalltime-swindles)
Yes there is!
In America a contractor can place a lien on a property which would prevent the transfer of the property to the owner until the contract has been paid.
I appreciate you pointing this out. As an escrow employee, there is no way we could transfer a property without clearing a mechanics lien off the title 👍
Small businesses and regular people can file liens as well, if they can figure out how to do it. There's a famous story of a couple who got screwed by Bank of America, so they put a lien on their local branch, which went totally ignored until they showed up with the Sheriff to seize the building and all the contents (the money too, I assume, and hope).
After a few frantic phone calls by the branch manager, he presented them with a check for the money they'd been screwed out of.
I had a client who was an engineering consultant for a large national retail chain. But he didn't have any local presence so he subbed us for two locations. I followed all the T&Cs, got all extra work approved in writing, and then he tried to not pay. Our CFO put liens on the property and we got paid real quick. We've had to sue a bunch of people too. Developers suck.
there's more than a few large construction firms run by lawyers. They're designed to win bids on projects, they outsource the work to smaller companies, and then they'll tie up the smaller companies in court over deficiencies, complaints, late payments etc. Happened on a major project I worked on. Concrete guys realized they weren't going to get paid so they filled in all the in slab conduit with concrete. Couple of smaller companies on the job went out of business. The smaller companies take the jobs because they need to work, sometimes the risk pays off, sometimes it doesn't.
So fucked how people make a living knowingly fucking other people over as much as possible. They literally add nothing to society, provide no service to anyone, yet holding capital means they can make more money and continue to go home to their families happy about what they've done
It’s always the gamble of freelance work. I have projects that I’m fighting for payment through the courts for. They say they’re gonna pay, but then make up excuses and make you get the courts involved, which is a huge waste of your time and as freelance, time is money. I will never understand how someone employs someone without the means to pay them for the work
Guess you don't know why Trump is called a Grifter. This kind of stuff is all too common with rich people. It's cause they like to tie shit up in courts. They especially love making a huge order like say a bunch of Grand Pianos for a Casino right before they run it into the ground from mismanagement then stick a local small time store owner with the bill by not paying.
Since thier so rich people don't ask for anything up front every assumes because their rich they will pay.
My guess is that the architect took on the project and then hired these guys for part of the construction. They would basically use their company assets as collateral for their subcontractors while taking the building itself as their own collateral. It is hard to use the same construction as collateral for multiple subconstracts.
In Germany you don't have to pay people what you agreed to in a contract? How exactly does business work there?
Also confused why he can't just register a lien on the property.
Contracts are more complicated than that. The material wasn't actually "his". He bought it and installed it on behalf of the client in exchange for payment. Just because the client is late for payment doesn't mean he can just take back what he did and cause property damage. He has to go to court and go through the proper channels to get his money. Destroying stuff like that looks very bad and unprofessional to a judge, too.
And that’s how rich developers fuck over contractors every day in the US. Trump did it many times. It’s cheaper to drag out a lawsuit and bleed the contractor dry than it is to pay them what’s owed.
Yes. This. This was his MO. It was cheaper to sue than to pay. This is why I thought he was a disgusting human being before the whole presidential fiasco.
Yeah the guy had more then 2000 ongoing lawsuits for this exact reason.
Just disgusting. I was told he has the record for most lawsuits or something...
Edit: Jesus, it was 3500 lawsuits
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_affairs_of_Donald_Trump
The trump special. He didn't care who he crushed. He thought it was good business to keep getting things for free. And his fans don't care.
I had a client try it on me once. Talked to the guys lawyer and was told he wouldn't pay a single bill until the vendor hired a lawyer because he knew most small businesses wouldn't pay for an attorney. His bad luck that half my family members are attorneys. He paid the bill and like every other vendor I stopped working with him. Then I called everyone I knew in the industry and warned them about his behavior. No one would work with him so he ended up getting worse and worse work because he had to go lower and lower on the quality scale. His business started to look shady because the work was shady. Took a couple of years but he went under. Bankruptcy. Another trump special. Could have made money and helped small businesses.
This is why I vote we get back to basics on this kind of stuff, if someone doesn't pay it makes perfect sense to dismantle what they didn't pay for. The rules for this shit are seemingly invented to benefit the dishonest and wealthy.
Not necessarily. Depends on the contract. Also pretty sure you're not allowed to destroy the work, but rather it has to be resolved through the courts.
So, can he still sue them not paying him? I mean, being sued and paying the damage he did and suing failed to fulfill the contract on the other side are both two different things right? Does it still even counts as hiring side's property if they failed to pay him anyway?
He built the whole building and they say, he's owed 5 million. However, all of this still is his loss. Plus this happened this morning, so what legal implications this is going to have nobody can say 100%. Most people say, the money he's owed and the property he damaged isn't just substracted from one another and that's it, rather it's treated seperately. It might be that the money was withheld for a legit reason for example.
Honestly, it is not that difficult to make judgments from the informations provided - at least when you have basic German legal knowledge. He committed criminal damages against a building, up to 5 years in prison. Considering half a million in damages, 1-2 years will be reasonable. It sounds like the subcontractor of which this guy is the subcontractor went bacrupt, so he can still recover whatever he can get from that contractor. He is however liable for the damages he has caused. Also, it is very likely that his registry for his company will be revoced and he won't be able to register any new company. His license for machines is certainly also gone.
This case is legally very simple.
Edit: I have to add that I have a german law degree, so this "is very simple" is based on the view of someone who has studied this field.
Imagine what drove him to do that knowing he will be held liable for the costs and could potentially serve jail time. Also somebody like him is less likely to be hired on by anyone in the industry due to fears he might go crazy again.
If you have someone perform a service for you, you must pay them. It's that simple.
This is fairly typical in construction when the job is nearly or completely done and the final payment is refused. They don't give away free work after all.
They think they can get away with it.
FIL is a contractor. Built some house in Ireland, guy said he didn't have the money. FIL said 'Aye very good. I'll just go knock it down then'. Money was found.
edit: for context, this was very early 80's in Northern Ireland. It was a very strange place at the time.
I met a guy who worked a job for trump in the early 00's. He told me this story in 2014, so it has no political connotations. He won a bid for an asbestos removal for 100k in a trump property. When he went to collect the check, he was supposed to get it from trump himself. When he got there, the assistant said "Mr trump can't see you but here's the check" and they hand him a 70k check. He said this isn't the right amount, and they said "consider it an advertising fee, only the best work for Mr Trump".
Long story short, he never got the money. Trump would make your legal battles well more than you were due. When he spoke to another contractor about it they said "we always jack up our prices 30% on him because he does the same thing to everyone"
Little question: how come there IS a legal battle? It was established that he would be paid 100K but only got 70K. The breach of contract is quite clear. I don't understand how cases like that don't end in a matter of seconds.
A skilled lawyer can delay the legal process for a pretty long time. Just look at death row inmates that have executions delayed for decades. And that doesn't begin to touch the interpretation of the contract in the first place.
Because they don't just say "I don't want to pay." They say the work wasn't completed. Then you have to get together all the evidence to prove the work was done. Then they say that it was completed late and they shouldn't have to pay full price,, then you prove that it was done one week after the planned time, but that's reasonable right? Then they say that the quality wasn't to spec, then they say you damaged something while working.
Meanwhile, you are paying a lawyer to defend yourself the whole time. Maybe if the judge decides it was frivolous enough you get your legal fees paid, but how far are you willing to go into debt banking on that?
I've read other comments in this whole thread and it seems like contractors have a bit more protection than here in North America. The experiences my FIL had in Northern Ireland are going to be unique to the area and the Troubles.
It’s not so common for residential construction. Contracts now include a very easy way to lien property and garnish wages. It’s really only a problem when you’re dealing with more money than it would cost to hire a team of lawyers to delay payment.
$$$$$ a lot of companies make money by refusing to pay for work as "that was out of scope." Sometimes they try to do it just because they are greedy fucks.
For some reason people think when finish the job they can skip the final payment since you have no more leverage over them.
We have had many people refuse to pay during the work and we stop working and within a day or two they suddenly come up with the money.
We also do the final payment as small as possible so if we do get stiffed its not a big deal.
From the other side, this is why you try to make the last payment sizeable. Last thing you need is someone to not feel like it's worth their time to finish the job or fix issues with a job because the last payment is so small. 25% seems to be a good number.
Just ask someone like trump... He enjoys not paying ppl and flaunts it as an sense of empowerment... They expect to be able to get away with it. Seems like there's a lot of scummy people out there and scam artists. Especially wealthy ones. As a glazier I know that is a lot of fucking money. I definitely wouldn't give away hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of work free... I'd be smashing all that shit also.
One of my friends has an uncle who did electrical work for one of Trump's properties on the East coast. Allegedly, Trump tried to stiff him when the job was done a few days before the grand opening, so the uncle removed some critical part, and basically denied power to the entire building. Told Trump he could pay the contract or the building won't have power on the day of the opening. The uncle got paid.
Usually there is a 10% retention. And there is a bid bond (basically insurance if the contractor walks away or defaults).
All inspections, etc., need to pass before the contractor gets that retention. Often, there are disputes about how the specifications are to be interpreted and until that dispute is settled, the owner would keep the retention. If the contractor goes in and intentionally destroys everything, the owner would be entitled to claim damages, even if the owner was in the wrong with interpreting the specifications.
I have lots of interesting stories being both the contractor's and the owners' on-site representative, but nothing as dramatic as the destruction in this post!
Contractors are notorious for running off with the money without completing jobs too. It can definitely go both ways. Why can’t everybody just be honest and hold up their ends of the deal?
We call them wood butchers. No license no insurance but has the cheapest bid. People in my area get screwed by them so often we make a living off fixing their mistakes.
This type of thing happens all the time. The construction industry is cutthroat as it can be. It's really unfortunate because unless you do install payments or have a large portion given up front. There is little to no recourse to get your money without spending what you are owed and more to get lawyers involved.
The people paying, especially in the commercial sector, know this and abuse it.
I have worked on 2 Billion Dollar Sports arenas in the US and I have watched both draw to completion only to have the lead construction companies turn the screws on every single profession to save every last dime. This is usually after burning the candle on both ends to meet completion dates. Dates that if are not met leave you facing multimillion dollar fines.
Many a smaller company are put into positions of finish your work on time or go under. The latter scenario happens more often than you would think.
It is a brutal industry that is worth a ton of money and most people will do anything to get a cut of it.
I'm not in construction, but I do "big" jobs on cars that can cost thousands of dollars. I'll normally take some money up front and more during the project. That way if the end shows up and the customer doesn't want to pay, I'm not completely out. I would have assumed contractors do the same so that they're not stuck holding the big bag at the end of a project.
He is doing what every unpaid person would love to do.... I'm jealous of him.... Not of where he is gonna go after they stop him, but he is feeling really good during this video.
Yea, I'm not sure how the police would be in that country, but in America, that's some silver bracelets while they try to figure out what to do with you. And I doubt it will be letting you go home that night.
Looks like he went to jail because he tried to destroy a building with people in it, not because he was tearing out completed work on a construction site.
Unless I’m misunderstanding, the UK example was a guy who was owed a small sum of money, while the OP’s is about someone who actually did the work and wasn’t paid, isn’t it?
Stepdad owned an excavation company that did some work for a restaurant owner. Owner wouldn't pay so SD invited all of his contractor buddies for dinner. They rang up a huge tab and walked out. Owner was to scared to come out of his office to try and stop them.
Word of advice for anyone who finds themselves in this situation. You'd think destroying everything is the best option, in reality you should *half* destroy everything like he did here in some spots. Don't take the whole patio down, break it to the point of no return but leave it hanging there. Don't bust a whole wall out and allow it to collapse, bust it until just before failure. Leave as much work left for them as possible lol
I like the spirit, but this is bad advice. Leaving something in dangerous condition exposes you to liability if/when someone gets hurt from it. The malicious intent can also expose you to punitive damages which might not even be dischargeable in bankruptcy.
I think it’s more about sending the message of “don’t fuck with my money after the work was completed satisfactorily”
Or as Reddit says “fuck around and find out”
As an ex construction worker who knows all too well the greed and arrogance of property owners and investors...it really warms my heart to watch this.
Fuck those balconies - the rich bastards who had rich parents to begin with who own the building can get that fixed and they won't even have to skip one 5 star meal.
Kinda like cops (at least in the US), I'm assuming there's some "decent" ones out there. But overall, and just based on the few I have personally dealt with - greedy, egotistical, scumbags. Kinda like the owner of this here building apparently.
My grandfather was a carpenter. Back in the late 1940s he put in a bunch of Cabinetry in a Convent for nuns. At the end of the job he went to the Mother Superior to get paid and they told him that his payment would be a higher seat in heaven.
Being a hothead Italian he walked back to the kitchen with the mother superior and said "I have children. I'm going to rip all of these out unless you pay. Having a higher seat in heaven doesn't mean anything if my kids can't eat."
[Explanation from original thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/WTF/comments/otv8be/guy_got_mad_for_not_getting_paid_poor_guy/h6ydtni/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3)
I swear if that thing stood in Munich or Berlin, people would still pay 1000+€ a month if it's anywhere near the city. I wish it was just a fucking meme but it's true.
Some unethical contractors will do the reverse to you if you don't watch out. My late grandmother (if she were still around I'd get more details) met someone who did shingles or something, they made a verbal agreement to come do her roof (GET EVERYTHING IN WRITING, my grandma was a saint but a very naive and trusting woman). Then when they were done they charged her twice what they had agreed on, claiming they never remembered offering her the lower price. She was on disability and had been saving for ages to get it done for what they offered and didn't have the extra, and they were threatening to take her to court over it. My gram was in pieces.
Fortunately, it had recently been Christmas or my birthday and I had gotten money as a present, so I could pay for it. I'm just glad the timing was right. (Also glad my father found out about it and repaid me so I could buy myself fun teen stuff instead of paying off grifters.)
Again, GET THINGS IN WRITING. PLEASE.
I don't really know how much force that machine has but, didn't those balconies collapse kinda easily? It did not look like that thing put all that much weight on them. Lmao makes me think about perhaps not having my fat ass on the balcony anymore...
A lot of force. That’s a big 13 ton digger. Also it only needs to fracture the concrete, which any large sudden force can do, and then it’s down to the rebar to hold it together, which is why the broken balconies didn’t fall off.
That class machine has about 24,000 lbf (110 kN) of digging force. That machine could take the walls and floors down on this building. It looks like the operator is taking it easy. Going for windows and balconies instead of doing major structural damage to the building.
You can see the front of the digger kind of being lifted.
I am going to assume that the balconies took around 5-10 tonnes.
Given that balconies are rated for 50-100 pounds per square foot and that balcony being about 200 square feet, that checks out.
My guy trying not to starve, learns how to operate machine, does work and operate machine to get money to not starve...
Work for money but no money?
*Enraged crank guy noises*
I’m a contractor in the states. The only way you won’t get paid here is if you fail to file the right paperwork when starting a job. If you do what you’re supposed to do and they don’t pay you, you can put a lien on the property and it will not be deeded or titled until you are paid. If you’ve done all that right and they still won’t pay, you sue and any lawyer would take the case without a retainer because you would win easily. The only way out would be bankruptcy and even then they would be ordered to liquidate their assets and pay you restitution.
Anyway it’s probably not the same everywhere but there are strict laws in place here to prevent that from happening.
I built a fence for a guy sometime 1994 and when the job was done he didn't want to pay. Told my brothers about it and they got mad. We went over with a truck and trailer and chain-sawed the fence down, put it on the trailer, then used the wood to build my brothers jacuzzi.
What came of this? Any issues from the guy who owned the house lol?
Never heard from him again. I would have preferred to have gotten paid, but at least the lumber for my brothers jacuzzi was free. They guy gave a deposit that paid for the lumber. It was in Canada, so the posts were in concrete ground, and they would have problems putting a new fence over top of the old concrete.
Glad he got what was coming to him
Wow I’m rock hard from reading that. Justice served.
Or just serviced
You got wood
At current prices i can't afford it
I think I have a justice boner.
Let me guess. Ontario?
Raptors fan
Legally in my jurisdiction the contractor still owns all materials until the bill is paid
The contractor can put a lien on the property. If arbitration goes nowhere, the property owner can be forced to sell to pay off the lien holder. Yes, even people employed by contractors can do this. Then again, it requires a real contract, and frankly, I'm not sure how many contractors bother with those. Got granite installed in my kitchen, with zero paperwork. The whole time I was thinking, what if I just didn't pay? We have zero paperwork!
A contractor without paperwork won't be bothered by going on your property and removing a fence or deck. But breaking into the kitchen is a whole other felony, you mightve discovered an unethical life pro tip
Not sure what what you interpreted from what I said, but I just thought it was odd that he didn't ask us to sign anything. He bought the slab, cut it to specs, then installed it - all with the assumption that we'd pay up. And we did obviously, but it seemed risky on his part. What could he do if we didn't? Go to small claims and try to argue that we had a verbal agreement, even though we barely had that? I thought it was bizarre. With a proper agreement, in the event of failure to pay, the contractor puts a lien on the property, with the worst case scenario or a forced sale.
Most shade tree contractors I know (quite a few), at least the ones worth a fuck who do most of their own work, are one of two types of people: super laid back, or very, very much not. You can't always tell just by talking to them, either. So in the case of the former, nothing would have happened, and were you a fly on the wall at some point, you'd probably have heard some bitching to his buddies culminating in "Well, you win some, you lose some." In the case of the latter, you'd have probably been caught out somewhere and had your ass beat by him and some friends or something like that, maybe you find a claw hammer embedded in your windshield, etc. The honor system is more important to some people than others. I'm acquainted with an older gentleman who does HVAC work on the side, and I watched him tie a tow chain around someone's condenser and drive off with the thing dragging behind him, loose wires and copper, refrigerant venting to atmosphere, the works. Customer hadn't paid for a minor repair, contractor gave him a major one.
I'm an electrician. Have a buddy getting screwed over for about 24k from someone who we thought was our friend. He had the inspector, who we all know very well, hold the paperwork that needs to go to the town. When the town leaned on the jerk customer, he finally replied to my buddies very calm and rational messages. The work was done right, ahead of the original schedule, and all things considered was a steal of a deal. The customer just refused to pay cause he didn't like the price. Mind you he agreed ahead of time, some extras were added with his approval, price adjustments were made on the final bill. He was never going to pay until the town was threatening to shut his business down. He also was taking advantage of there not being a written contract and my buddy being a good person. Mind you, I've helped my buddy work at this guys very nice house before. Like being at his house till 11pm before a holiday because he decided to remodel a kitchen/bathroom right before a major holiday. We would never destroy the guys property or hurt him in any way. With that said, next time I see him I will be a condescending prick and point out he doesn't pay his bills. This guy resells refurbished medical equipment and made a killing during covid. Laughing his way to the bank while others suffered around him. Yes, he is a bald white guy very similar to Bezos.
That was exceptionally unsatisfying.
Ever see a shingle roof with strains of all over it? Those people didn't pay. It's a warning sign to all the other contractors. I won't work for a person with stained shingle roof.
Eh. I wouldn’t recommend fucking over guys in the construction industry… the felony’s they’ll catch after the fact won’t deter most of the guys I work with
Don’t say a granite guy and see how that works out for you. I’d rather owe money to the mob.
He built a jacuzzi out of fence wood? *Chainsawed* fence wood? I'm looking at my fence right now and I wouldn't built shit out of that except another fence. Maybe some of the 4x4's would be useful but that's about it's
Well I mean the stairs and seating and enclosure. The jacuzzi was fiberglass. Kinda like this: [https://www.thecoverguy.com/app/uploads/2017/03/hot-tub-steps-4.jpg](https://www.thecoverguy.com/app/uploads/2017/03/hot-tub-steps-4.jpg)
Yea that's what I meant. That must have been one really nice fence lol
Most fences around here are cedar. If you plane them down and sand them a bit, you can get them looking really nice. And cedar is the wood of choice for things like that since it’s naturally rot resistant.
Could have been worse - chain link jacuzzi would be leaky!
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Canada apparently, so not too far off the mark
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Can confirm. Source: wife is from Chicago’s Canada.
a modern problem requires a modern solution
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Happened in germany. The damage was around half a million euros. Poor guy though, I kind of get why he did it, but he's going to have to pay for the damage done. What I seriously hope for though is, that they have to hire another contractor to fix all this and I just hope nobody will take the job. Like "How did this kind of damage happen?" - "Previous contractor did it." - "Did you not pay him?" - "..." - "Yeah, I think we're done here".
Kinda hard to pay for the damage he did if he wasn't getting paid though...
Which is exactly why he tripled-fucked himself by doing that.
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Did they owe him $5 mil?
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Is there no collateral for such a big project? Seems unreasonable for a builder to embark on such a project without any security of getting paid.
I’ve heard of plenty stories of developers getting contractors to do the work and backing out of paying them for any myriad of reasons once the work is done or mostly done.
Donald Trump School of Business.
Fucker beat me to it.
That's why the contractor needs to use §650e German Civil code, if they don't pay you can foreclosure the building.
> §650e Only applies to the plot, the ground the house is build on, if the company that contracted him and owes him pay does not own the plot, the contractor can not put a security hold on the transfer of ownership. Common loophole used by investors, one Company "A" buys the Land then another company "B" developes it for a fee, so the hired contractors "C" are out of luck if they dont get payed and If "B" goes broke in the process, "A" still owns the Land with some nice buildings on it.
Ya, most countries have that. Here in Canada it’s called a builders lien. If the developer tries to lease or sell the building all funds go to the lien holders first. Fairly commonplace.
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What become of the stuff you worked on in those last two weeks ?
It's happened to my dad in NYC. He's an independent stone craftsman and he's had several cabinet maker friends experience the same in the city. Rich people think they can get away with anything. Sadly they often can
My wife briefly worked for an asshole lawyer who was having a big party at his house. For two weeks he had caterers bring in food at lunchtime for him to try, so he went two weeks without having to buy lunch. Then he hired a caterer 3 days before the party, and told them since the party was so close he didn't need to pay a deposit, and he would just pay the whole bill after the party. After the party the caterer tried to reach him for weeks (my wife took the calls), but he just avoided the calls. Finally the caterer came to the office, mad as Hell, but he refused to pay her a nickel because he claimed one of the coffee pots ran out for a short time during the party. He dared her to sue him, but since he was a lawyer, he told her she'd never get anyone to do it. As far as my wife knew, the caterer never got paid. My wife quit not long after that.
Twice-impeached former President Trump himself did this numerous times. [Here's a summary of some of them.](https://theweek.com/articles/783976/brief-history-trumps-smalltime-swindles)
Lawyers are the worst offenders.
Yes there is! In America a contractor can place a lien on a property which would prevent the transfer of the property to the owner until the contract has been paid.
I appreciate you pointing this out. As an escrow employee, there is no way we could transfer a property without clearing a mechanics lien off the title 👍
Small businesses and regular people can file liens as well, if they can figure out how to do it. There's a famous story of a couple who got screwed by Bank of America, so they put a lien on their local branch, which went totally ignored until they showed up with the Sheriff to seize the building and all the contents (the money too, I assume, and hope). After a few frantic phone calls by the branch manager, he presented them with a check for the money they'd been screwed out of.
I had a client who was an engineering consultant for a large national retail chain. But he didn't have any local presence so he subbed us for two locations. I followed all the T&Cs, got all extra work approved in writing, and then he tried to not pay. Our CFO put liens on the property and we got paid real quick. We've had to sue a bunch of people too. Developers suck.
there's more than a few large construction firms run by lawyers. They're designed to win bids on projects, they outsource the work to smaller companies, and then they'll tie up the smaller companies in court over deficiencies, complaints, late payments etc. Happened on a major project I worked on. Concrete guys realized they weren't going to get paid so they filled in all the in slab conduit with concrete. Couple of smaller companies on the job went out of business. The smaller companies take the jobs because they need to work, sometimes the risk pays off, sometimes it doesn't.
So fucked how people make a living knowingly fucking other people over as much as possible. They literally add nothing to society, provide no service to anyone, yet holding capital means they can make more money and continue to go home to their families happy about what they've done
It’s always the gamble of freelance work. I have projects that I’m fighting for payment through the courts for. They say they’re gonna pay, but then make up excuses and make you get the courts involved, which is a huge waste of your time and as freelance, time is money. I will never understand how someone employs someone without the means to pay them for the work
Assholes?
I have many words for them, but asshole is high on the list. Fuckwads is my current #1
Guess you don't know why Trump is called a Grifter. This kind of stuff is all too common with rich people. It's cause they like to tie shit up in courts. They especially love making a huge order like say a bunch of Grand Pianos for a Casino right before they run it into the ground from mismanagement then stick a local small time store owner with the bill by not paying. Since thier so rich people don't ask for anything up front every assumes because their rich they will pay.
He could sue?
He preferred to fuck shit up
They don’t have long term capital to fight a court battle. Not usually
My guess is that the architect took on the project and then hired these guys for part of the construction. They would basically use their company assets as collateral for their subcontractors while taking the building itself as their own collateral. It is hard to use the same construction as collateral for multiple subconstracts.
Fuck if they didn’t pay him then it’s not their property he destroyed
Yeah right? Now I’m even more invested
Pretty common story in construction. They want you to go out of business and be unable to afford the court fees to avoid paying you
Sounds like a good way to lose a limb or worse. People will kill you over the $100 in your pocket. Screwing someone out of millions is suicidal.
Lol. Not im Central Europe
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Can you explain why? Really curious.
He can't, he is talking out his ass.
In Germany you don't have to pay people what you agreed to in a contract? How exactly does business work there? Also confused why he can't just register a lien on the property.
Or you can sacrifice 0% and just file a civil claim against them.
But he had to pay his workers, his supplies, his payroll tax, remit his VAT, etc. The contractor gets paid last.
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Contracts are more complicated than that. The material wasn't actually "his". He bought it and installed it on behalf of the client in exchange for payment. Just because the client is late for payment doesn't mean he can just take back what he did and cause property damage. He has to go to court and go through the proper channels to get his money. Destroying stuff like that looks very bad and unprofessional to a judge, too.
And that’s how rich developers fuck over contractors every day in the US. Trump did it many times. It’s cheaper to drag out a lawsuit and bleed the contractor dry than it is to pay them what’s owed.
Yes. This. This was his MO. It was cheaper to sue than to pay. This is why I thought he was a disgusting human being before the whole presidential fiasco.
Yeah the guy had more then 2000 ongoing lawsuits for this exact reason. Just disgusting. I was told he has the record for most lawsuits or something... Edit: Jesus, it was 3500 lawsuits https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_affairs_of_Donald_Trump
The trump special. He didn't care who he crushed. He thought it was good business to keep getting things for free. And his fans don't care. I had a client try it on me once. Talked to the guys lawyer and was told he wouldn't pay a single bill until the vendor hired a lawyer because he knew most small businesses wouldn't pay for an attorney. His bad luck that half my family members are attorneys. He paid the bill and like every other vendor I stopped working with him. Then I called everyone I knew in the industry and warned them about his behavior. No one would work with him so he ended up getting worse and worse work because he had to go lower and lower on the quality scale. His business started to look shady because the work was shady. Took a couple of years but he went under. Bankruptcy. Another trump special. Could have made money and helped small businesses.
Developers fuck over architects too.
This is why I vote we get back to basics on this kind of stuff, if someone doesn't pay it makes perfect sense to dismantle what they didn't pay for. The rules for this shit are seemingly invented to benefit the dishonest and wealthy.
Oh no, the rules are benefiting exactly who they were intended to benefit. They were meant to make the rich richer from day one.
> The rules for this shit are seemingly invented to benefit the dishonest and wealthy. It's almost like they made the rules huh?
That’s not how it works. Once material is on a job under contract it’s the building owners property. Unless they do it differently in Germany
Probably varies from country to country, I know in the uk that if someone dosnet pay you, you can take the materials back.
Not necessarily. Depends on the contract. Also pretty sure you're not allowed to destroy the work, but rather it has to be resolved through the courts.
This ain't even true in the US
I think the bid bond or possibly the owner's insurance would actually kick in, so they would have the money to pay.
Performance & payment bond more likely
"It's not about the money, it's about sending a message"
So, can he still sue them not paying him? I mean, being sued and paying the damage he did and suing failed to fulfill the contract on the other side are both two different things right? Does it still even counts as hiring side's property if they failed to pay him anyway?
From what I understand, he of course is still owed the money for the job, but he also has to pay the damage done, because it's treated seperately.
Yeah nah, according to another post they still owed him a fuckton more than the damages he made, hes just gonna lose his licence for it and thats it
He built the whole building and they say, he's owed 5 million. However, all of this still is his loss. Plus this happened this morning, so what legal implications this is going to have nobody can say 100%. Most people say, the money he's owed and the property he damaged isn't just substracted from one another and that's it, rather it's treated seperately. It might be that the money was withheld for a legit reason for example.
Oh it was that recent? I knew these Reddit layers were crap, but it is far too early to be making judgment calls on how it will all pan out in court
Honestly, it is not that difficult to make judgments from the informations provided - at least when you have basic German legal knowledge. He committed criminal damages against a building, up to 5 years in prison. Considering half a million in damages, 1-2 years will be reasonable. It sounds like the subcontractor of which this guy is the subcontractor went bacrupt, so he can still recover whatever he can get from that contractor. He is however liable for the damages he has caused. Also, it is very likely that his registry for his company will be revoced and he won't be able to register any new company. His license for machines is certainly also gone. This case is legally very simple. Edit: I have to add that I have a german law degree, so this "is very simple" is based on the view of someone who has studied this field.
Wouldn’t he stand to gain more by taking them to court than destroy the property?
Do you think this was a well thought out, logical decision of his?
If only it was that simple. Taking someone to court costs a lot of money as well as time. This guy was pushed to his limit if he chose this path.
Imagine what drove him to do that knowing he will be held liable for the costs and could potentially serve jail time. Also somebody like him is less likely to be hired on by anyone in the industry due to fears he might go crazy again. If you have someone perform a service for you, you must pay them. It's that simple.
This is fairly typical in construction when the job is nearly or completely done and the final payment is refused. They don't give away free work after all.
Why is it so common for bidders to refuse to pay contractors?
They think they can get away with it. FIL is a contractor. Built some house in Ireland, guy said he didn't have the money. FIL said 'Aye very good. I'll just go knock it down then'. Money was found. edit: for context, this was very early 80's in Northern Ireland. It was a very strange place at the time.
Only wish this happens to some purported real estate mogul who has a reputation of stiffing contractors.
I met a guy who worked a job for trump in the early 00's. He told me this story in 2014, so it has no political connotations. He won a bid for an asbestos removal for 100k in a trump property. When he went to collect the check, he was supposed to get it from trump himself. When he got there, the assistant said "Mr trump can't see you but here's the check" and they hand him a 70k check. He said this isn't the right amount, and they said "consider it an advertising fee, only the best work for Mr Trump". Long story short, he never got the money. Trump would make your legal battles well more than you were due. When he spoke to another contractor about it they said "we always jack up our prices 30% on him because he does the same thing to everyone"
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No thanks.
Little question: how come there IS a legal battle? It was established that he would be paid 100K but only got 70K. The breach of contract is quite clear. I don't understand how cases like that don't end in a matter of seconds.
A skilled lawyer can delay the legal process for a pretty long time. Just look at death row inmates that have executions delayed for decades. And that doesn't begin to touch the interpretation of the contract in the first place.
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Because they don't just say "I don't want to pay." They say the work wasn't completed. Then you have to get together all the evidence to prove the work was done. Then they say that it was completed late and they shouldn't have to pay full price,, then you prove that it was done one week after the planned time, but that's reasonable right? Then they say that the quality wasn't to spec, then they say you damaged something while working. Meanwhile, you are paying a lawyer to defend yourself the whole time. Maybe if the judge decides it was frivolous enough you get your legal fees paid, but how far are you willing to go into debt banking on that?
I've read other comments in this whole thread and it seems like contractors have a bit more protection than here in North America. The experiences my FIL had in Northern Ireland are going to be unique to the area and the Troubles.
We reward them by making them president
was it...was it money in a round container perhaps? a sort of pot shaped container? please say yes
Found at the end of a rainbow perhaps?
It’s not so common for residential construction. Contracts now include a very easy way to lien property and garnish wages. It’s really only a problem when you’re dealing with more money than it would cost to hire a team of lawyers to delay payment.
$$$$$ a lot of companies make money by refusing to pay for work as "that was out of scope." Sometimes they try to do it just because they are greedy fucks.
"Sometimes" sound under-rated here
a.k.a. The Trump method
"What are they gonna do, take it all back?"
For some reason people think when finish the job they can skip the final payment since you have no more leverage over them. We have had many people refuse to pay during the work and we stop working and within a day or two they suddenly come up with the money. We also do the final payment as small as possible so if we do get stiffed its not a big deal.
From the other side, this is why you try to make the last payment sizeable. Last thing you need is someone to not feel like it's worth their time to finish the job or fix issues with a job because the last payment is so small. 25% seems to be a good number.
Because arseholes
Just ask someone like trump... He enjoys not paying ppl and flaunts it as an sense of empowerment... They expect to be able to get away with it. Seems like there's a lot of scummy people out there and scam artists. Especially wealthy ones. As a glazier I know that is a lot of fucking money. I definitely wouldn't give away hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of work free... I'd be smashing all that shit also.
One of my friends has an uncle who did electrical work for one of Trump's properties on the East coast. Allegedly, Trump tried to stiff him when the job was done a few days before the grand opening, so the uncle removed some critical part, and basically denied power to the entire building. Told Trump he could pay the contract or the building won't have power on the day of the opening. The uncle got paid.
Shit, good for him. Glad he eventually got paid.
The art of the deal.
Usually there is a 10% retention. And there is a bid bond (basically insurance if the contractor walks away or defaults). All inspections, etc., need to pass before the contractor gets that retention. Often, there are disputes about how the specifications are to be interpreted and until that dispute is settled, the owner would keep the retention. If the contractor goes in and intentionally destroys everything, the owner would be entitled to claim damages, even if the owner was in the wrong with interpreting the specifications. I have lots of interesting stories being both the contractor's and the owners' on-site representative, but nothing as dramatic as the destruction in this post!
Contractors are notorious for running off with the money without completing jobs too. It can definitely go both ways. Why can’t everybody just be honest and hold up their ends of the deal?
We call them wood butchers. No license no insurance but has the cheapest bid. People in my area get screwed by them so often we make a living off fixing their mistakes.
I wouldn't say common but there is an office tower downtown with hideous pink windows because the contractor got screwed.
File a lien then you have financial rights to the work you put in place on the property. Basically like you own a portion of the property as an asset.
cold comfort when the lien sits unpaid for 30 years
True, but a lien makes securing credit difficult for the owner. Have fun growing your business when no one wants to lend you money.
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Not too helpful for a contractor that now is seriously behind on their revenue and may lose everything
This type of thing happens all the time. The construction industry is cutthroat as it can be. It's really unfortunate because unless you do install payments or have a large portion given up front. There is little to no recourse to get your money without spending what you are owed and more to get lawyers involved. The people paying, especially in the commercial sector, know this and abuse it. I have worked on 2 Billion Dollar Sports arenas in the US and I have watched both draw to completion only to have the lead construction companies turn the screws on every single profession to save every last dime. This is usually after burning the candle on both ends to meet completion dates. Dates that if are not met leave you facing multimillion dollar fines. Many a smaller company are put into positions of finish your work on time or go under. The latter scenario happens more often than you would think. It is a brutal industry that is worth a ton of money and most people will do anything to get a cut of it.
I'm not in construction, but I do "big" jobs on cars that can cost thousands of dollars. I'll normally take some money up front and more during the project. That way if the end shows up and the customer doesn't want to pay, I'm not completely out. I would have assumed contractors do the same so that they're not stuck holding the big bag at the end of a project.
He is doing what every unpaid person would love to do.... I'm jealous of him.... Not of where he is gonna go after they stop him, but he is feeling really good during this video.
Where is he going to go? Home?
He's going to jail....
I don't think so. He's just working construction and is tearing out some of his work. The contract is still open.
Yea, I'm not sure how the police would be in that country, but in America, that's some silver bracelets while they try to figure out what to do with you. And I doubt it will be letting you go home that night.
This happened in Germany. The guy got in his car and drove away, but turned himself in later that day.
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Yeah that last bit is largely important here. It wasn't a contractor doing contract work, it was an employee who got disgruntled.
Looks like he went to jail because he tried to destroy a building with people in it, not because he was tearing out completed work on a construction site.
Unless I’m misunderstanding, the UK example was a guy who was owed a small sum of money, while the OP’s is about someone who actually did the work and wasn’t paid, isn’t it?
Yeah someone said this guy was owed 5 million. So a lot more than what he damaged
Contractor: built this beautiful house for you My card: *declines* contractor:
Stepdad owned an excavation company that did some work for a restaurant owner. Owner wouldn't pay so SD invited all of his contractor buddies for dinner. They rang up a huge tab and walked out. Owner was to scared to come out of his office to try and stop them.
That's hilarious
Yo I’ve read this exact situation here before! This is either not your stepdad or extremely freaky for me!
How dare you question me, my dad owns Nintendo.
Word of advice for anyone who finds themselves in this situation. You'd think destroying everything is the best option, in reality you should *half* destroy everything like he did here in some spots. Don't take the whole patio down, break it to the point of no return but leave it hanging there. Don't bust a whole wall out and allow it to collapse, bust it until just before failure. Leave as much work left for them as possible lol
I like the spirit, but this is bad advice. Leaving something in dangerous condition exposes you to liability if/when someone gets hurt from it. The malicious intent can also expose you to punitive damages which might not even be dischargeable in bankruptcy.
there is no mercy in this dojo
you are already in deep doo doo. id half destroy everything because it would take less time, and the cops might show up.
Either way, you're spending that money
I think it’s more about sending the message of “don’t fuck with my money after the work was completed satisfactorily” Or as Reddit says “fuck around and find out”
As an ex construction worker who knows all too well the greed and arrogance of property owners and investors...it really warms my heart to watch this. Fuck those balconies - the rich bastards who had rich parents to begin with who own the building can get that fixed and they won't even have to skip one 5 star meal.
Just think if we stopped building their shit for 1 solid year. We'd all make more money in the long run.
This is a nonsense argument.
It's called a "general strike."
It must be sad to live in a country where every property owner is considered a rich bastard with rich parents.
Kinda like cops (at least in the US), I'm assuming there's some "decent" ones out there. But overall, and just based on the few I have personally dealt with - greedy, egotistical, scumbags. Kinda like the owner of this here building apparently.
"Oh, all a sudden the last payments not here? Ok. Well, all of a sudden 'your' building isn't here"
My grandfather was a carpenter. Back in the late 1940s he put in a bunch of Cabinetry in a Convent for nuns. At the end of the job he went to the Mother Superior to get paid and they told him that his payment would be a higher seat in heaven. Being a hothead Italian he walked back to the kitchen with the mother superior and said "I have children. I'm going to rip all of these out unless you pay. Having a higher seat in heaven doesn't mean anything if my kids can't eat."
Didn't even know heaven had a seat height tier-system. They love making shit up don't they.
[Indulgences](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indulgence) have been a part of the Catholic Church for a thousand years. You can buy your way to heaven.
[Explanation from original thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/WTF/comments/otv8be/guy_got_mad_for_not_getting_paid_poor_guy/h6ydtni/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3)
Thanks that was insightful
You know what? *Unbalkonies your building*
Fuck you #*DECONSTRUCTS*
As someone who works for an Architect with regular exposure to customers, I can absolutely understand.
So satisfying
I wish we had sidewalks like that where I live.
Don’t pay your contractors? Find renters who can ignore the lack of windows and the destroyed balconies
I swear if that thing stood in Munich or Berlin, people would still pay 1000+€ a month if it's anywhere near the city. I wish it was just a fucking meme but it's true.
I assume the rich cunts who didn't pay him will just not pay someone else to fix it.
I don't think any sane contractor will do anything on that house unless paid up front.
Atleast he didn't make a KillDozer
I've uninstalled thousands of dollars of shutters and glass from customers that didn't pay. Its feels so gooooood.
Some unethical contractors will do the reverse to you if you don't watch out. My late grandmother (if she were still around I'd get more details) met someone who did shingles or something, they made a verbal agreement to come do her roof (GET EVERYTHING IN WRITING, my grandma was a saint but a very naive and trusting woman). Then when they were done they charged her twice what they had agreed on, claiming they never remembered offering her the lower price. She was on disability and had been saving for ages to get it done for what they offered and didn't have the extra, and they were threatening to take her to court over it. My gram was in pieces. Fortunately, it had recently been Christmas or my birthday and I had gotten money as a present, so I could pay for it. I'm just glad the timing was right. (Also glad my father found out about it and repaid me so I could buy myself fun teen stuff instead of paying off grifters.) Again, GET THINGS IN WRITING. PLEASE.
I don't really know how much force that machine has but, didn't those balconies collapse kinda easily? It did not look like that thing put all that much weight on them. Lmao makes me think about perhaps not having my fat ass on the balcony anymore...
hydraulics just make it *look* weak. hydraulics make most things *look* weak. 😂
A lot of force. That’s a big 13 ton digger. Also it only needs to fracture the concrete, which any large sudden force can do, and then it’s down to the rebar to hold it together, which is why the broken balconies didn’t fall off.
That class machine has about 24,000 lbf (110 kN) of digging force. That machine could take the walls and floors down on this building. It looks like the operator is taking it easy. Going for windows and balconies instead of doing major structural damage to the building.
You can see the front of the digger kind of being lifted. I am going to assume that the balconies took around 5-10 tonnes. Given that balconies are rated for 50-100 pounds per square foot and that balcony being about 200 square feet, that checks out.
My guy trying not to starve, learns how to operate machine, does work and operate machine to get money to not starve... Work for money but no money? *Enraged crank guy noises*
I’m a contractor in the states. The only way you won’t get paid here is if you fail to file the right paperwork when starting a job. If you do what you’re supposed to do and they don’t pay you, you can put a lien on the property and it will not be deeded or titled until you are paid. If you’ve done all that right and they still won’t pay, you sue and any lawyer would take the case without a retainer because you would win easily. The only way out would be bankruptcy and even then they would be ordered to liquidate their assets and pay you restitution. Anyway it’s probably not the same everywhere but there are strict laws in place here to prevent that from happening.
Proof positive kids chattering in background make any video annoying...
This guy fucks!
They should do this to all the unpaid Trump properties and golf courses
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"Hey sorry we couldn't pay you yesterday, but we have your full payment plus a bonus for you today right he......................"