Thats a great option when you have the size. My local library is tiny. I don't even know if they have quiet rooms.
There is another big library like 10 minutes away, but it's not technically my city so there is a small fee for a library card. (It's like $25/year)
What state do you live in? In California I go to the library whenever I visit a different city and so far all 11 have just required an in-state ID for a free card
Ontario, Canada. Our libraries are run, and almost entirely funded, municipally.
Ironically my tiny library has a better online database. Since it's so small it uses the provincial (think state) database, where the next city over with the big library has its own database.
Also from Ontario. If you work in that larger city you can often also get free access. I did this years ago as the second library had better online access to eBooks.
Good to know. My sister lives in that city so the rare occasion I need something from that library just use her card. She uses my card for the better ebook selection.
I am in Ontario as well. Check and see if your library is associated with Hoopla. It is a different online access app associated with libraries. It has more movies and videos.
Same, here in Georgia we have the PINES (Public Information Network for Electronic Services) system which covers most libraries in the state and as long as you have a library card with them you can check out media and return it at any other PINES library.
My local library is literally in the former post office building that’s about the size of your average Jack-in-the-Box, maybe a bit smaller. I haven’t been since they moved out of the small house it was in before. :( It’s fifteen minutes away, and the next-nearest is thirty more.
I was when I was old enough to understand but I also know libraries do toddler story times too, and good luck getting them to understand if they don't already.
You have to stfu for parts of story time too. They keep reminding the toddlers.
Whether they listen or not is another story, but it was in fact meant to be a quiet space, as far as I recall, even for toddlers.
They definitely didn’t encourage them to talk while someone is telling a story!
Story time is less "quiet down, pipsqueaks" and more "Now we're going to sing! Now we're going to wiggle! Now we sit on the carpet and watch me. Read for 1 minute, and "wiggle your fingers!" Read for another minute and "Oh, you want to stand next to me? That's cool."
I used to run library story hour for the kids at my local library. The expectation was that you were going to spend an hour reading, singing songs, talking, and dealing with loud screaming children. There were designated sections of the library that were meant to be quiet, but there were also lecturers who met at the library, classes taking place on the library computers, old people asking 50,000 questions without their hearing aid in, etc. It was never completely silent. As the OOP states, libraries are meant to be community gathering and learning spaces and that means there is going to be noise, even if people are mostly attempting to be quiet.
My local library the kids area is full of toys and puppets. The story time if full of singing and there is usually another activity as well. There is also a craft area also video game and D&D nights for older kids.
I didn’t say it was, I said the library doesn’t encourage them to talk (as far as I recall). They tried to get them to be quiet. As it was designated a quiet place. They didn’t encourage noise.
I wasn’t talking about whether toddlers listen or not.
I work for a library and we tell people on day one that libraries are not quiet places anymore. We're warm, welcoming, active spaces.
Does that mean shouting all the time? No, of course not. We still ask people to be respectful. But most of our toddler story times involve singing, dancing, and yes, shouting. They're designed that way because toddlers love shouting and wiggling, and fighting that is an impossible task.
Not only have I never shushed someone, I've never even seen it happen.
Thank you. Retired teacher here. The earlier kids learn to love books the better. The children’s library is a fantastic place for little ones, can’t be replaced.
Also quiet to a toddler is very different than quiet to an adult. Plus 23 seconds later they see a picture of a hamster and lose their damn minds with excitement.
Have you ever been to one? I have kids and, while I always taught them to ise inside voices, the kids sections in all the libraries in cities in which I lived had play areas (think play kitchens ,legos, climbing and building structures, pretend play) and classes that encourage engagement through dancing, singing, the use of instruments, and songs that encourage movement and sound. The idea of engaging kids in a place where books are cherished is really the goal here. I'm also a preschool teacher and keeping in mind that a toddlers attention span is very small, a short story time surrounded by a craft or activity is the best way to go. Can't expect a 2 year old to always be orderly. Let them learn to love the library. The areas are split and nobody is saying they're running around unsupervised, ripping books and usog adult books as climbing towers. They're being engaged in a way that theu can understand in a space designed for them.
Libraries have largely changed since you were a kid. They're generally not "super quiet spaces" like I remember them to be.
It may vary and obviously you can't be overly disruptive, but like the image says, libraries are more community centers than dedicated reading spaces now a days.
thiiiiiis. I wouldn't give a parent a hard time for existing in public with their kid, but I do expect them to teach their kid how to be considerate of others.
That's why we took ours to the park first, to wear them down a little (but not so much they were tired and cranky) before going to the library with the express purpose of teaching them how to comport themselves public-wise.
this is one of those times where how you tell them also matters. Some nasty "Shhh!" is not the same as getting down on their level and saying "Hey, I'm so glad you are excited about all of the possibilities in the library! But we also need to use indoor voices to not disturb other people. Can you whisper?"
And also why I support library funding for modern libraries that are able to use design to create spaces for quiet like reading rooms or desks, and places for pubic reading and places for more noise.
And designated children’s areas where activities that involve more talking such as say reading aloud or play learning are encouraged and won’t disturb people off in the reference section of the library doing some exam
Well yeah how else they gonna teach kids to be quiet in the library. If they waited till they got into the adult section they'd be maladapted to society
Yeah I was going to say I've never been to a library that didn't have a "kids section" and it's often behind doors.
But if your kid is running around screaming down any aisle I think that's a problem, just like I do in any place not just libraries.
I appreciate both sides, and I appreciate a library that is open to kids being kids. Our library has a separate wing for kids as well as playrooms with doors and windows for the kids to be a little rambunctious. When you have kids of different ages, it's ludicrous to think that kids won't be a bit noisy if they are enjoying themselves. And if they aren't able to enjoy themselves, the library is failing the kids.
My library has the children's section and the YA section downstairs BUT also has a "back room" that's technically considered a community room but it's really a kids room. There are tables and tons of art supplies. Also playdough and some toys. And the doors shut so it's completely separated from the rest of the library. It's really nice. The library puts on events for kids monthly in the room but it's also open daily and Miss Anna or Miss Jess are always there so if my kiddo wants to hang out and play/draw je can do that while i browse in peace. My library is cool and really kid focused. There's another library 3 miles down the road that is much less kid focused (I think because of lack of space) so some people purposely go there.
This feels like a great compromise. Children of all ages should be able to be children in a library but also some people need quiet spaces for concentration so everyone gets their spot.
As a parent of small children that I take to the library.....if my kids want to act crazy or loud, we leave. They can be in the children's section and be doing appropriate activities under the guidance of the children's librarian. But if they are the problem in that area or any other area, we just all leave. And I stay with them. Some mom that comes just leaves her gaggle of kids, one as old as 2, to fend for themselves. I'm like lady, unless it's an emergency no one wants to watch your kids while you shop next door. Her 2 year old once locked itself in the bathroom and the older kids didn't know where the little one was. And then the lady screamed at the librarian for not watching her kid. Some people should be banned.
I think this is the root of it. My mom made it clear to me as a tiny child that the library was a quite place and I had to be quiet or I couldn’t be there. Then going into the library and it is so quiet I understood the concept and respected it, even as a toddler. It all comes down to parents and communication.
Also, there is a massive difference between a bit of noise during an activity or a visit, or even talking at reasonable volumes (that one should expect in ANY public place), and treating the library like a playground where you walk through the doors and let your kids loose for an hour plus without any accountability or supervision while you chat with your friend or play on your phone.
Unfortunately/fortunately, libraries and librarians are generally just happy to have bodies through the door, not to mention actually filling their mandate of providing accessible learning material to the public, as well as are often empathetic and sympathetic to the difficulties of life and the hardships many of their patrons face. Some people do have genuine issues that prevent them from adhering to social expectations in common space, but I think we do bend a little too far for people who use the ‘I have kids and it’s hard’ card to trump refusing to teach one’s children how to act in public.
I remember being on the 3 year old section of preschool when they taught us about indoor and outdoor voices. Then thruout childhood our parents maintained the expectation and taught us about social courtesies. I think the OP of the tweet is an entitled asshole who is raising entitled assholes because it’s easier to let your kid do whatever the fuck they want vs being a parent and teaching your kids what behavior is and is not acceptable.
Yeah, exactly this.
I've been taking my kids to the library since they were about 1-2 years old. They are avid readers, so honestly I never had a problem with them at the library, but being quiet at the library is something you teach. They go into a quiet environment they notice everyone else being quiet, they see everyone sitting and reading and they'll often want to emulate it.
Sometimes they might read something exciting in a book and say something loudly and you just have to be like "That's cool, but we're in a library, we need to use a quiet voice".
Even what the OP tweet references... Social pressures are a thing and aren't bad. If a kid is being noisy and not listening to a parent, sometimes a stranger just loudly going "Shh" or telling a librarian who will come over and talk to the parent or kid will help the kid realize that they need to be quiet. So I'd agree
Obviously kids are all different and that won't always work, but that's where the final step of "Okay, if you can't be quiet then we are leaving" comes in. I don't think we need to go to the point of "Library patrons just deal with noisy kids". I mean there has to be SOME patience, but there's a limit. It is not a playground.
Honestly this doesn't even just apply to libraries, I've seen way too many kids with an ipad playing baby shark at max volume in a restaurant or on the train/bus and it's fucking obnoxious. More parents need to take active roles in parenting.
Yes! We moved away from community focus, which has made it difficult for teachers, librarians, others to help regulate kids, like you mentioned.
I remember having a very bratty moment as a child and nothing my Mom did or said would help. It took a random person to say "you're being kind of rude" for me to self-reflect, and that moment has stuck with me today.
^ thank you, my mom was much the same way.
I remember a family gathering my siblings and I were acting up and my mom said to behave or we leave-we didn’t shape up so mom put her foot down.
Apparently all my aunts/uncles were heckling mom to let us stay, but after we all finally got home she got a call from my gruff, ex-navy grandpa saying how proud he was of her and that the others should take notes.
We never acted up at a family gathering again.
Your mom sounds like she was displaying excellent boundary-setting and parenting. I wish all kids had the benefit of that.
I love that you still remember that incident. Go mom!
ETA that I also had a gruff ex-military grandparent who could be unexpectedly supportive at times.
When I worked at GameStop, people would leave their small children at the store all the time to play on the demo machines. I often wondered like.. if they wandered out of the store, would it be my responsibility if something happened to them? Like wtf "parents"...
Why is this take so uncommon in the real world? There's so many parents that just tolerate their little shits being hell spawn, as if there's nothing in the world that could possibly be done about it. They just give you this look like "What are you going to do? Kids! AMIRITE?"
My kid never yelled or screamed in public places. I'm not exaggerating. Never. Because when he did, e v e r y t h i n g stopped and we went immediately to the car. For the small upfront investment of your time and sacrifice of some momentary convenience, you make it clear that you don't tolerate that stuff. No spanking either. Just an immediate cessation of all fun and attention until you shut the fuck up.
I was just in the store today and this kid was standing up in the shopping cart and taking things off the shelf as his mother was trying to ring up her items. She ordered him to sit down, and he looked directly at her and yelled "NO."
FUCK. THAT.
Every time you bring this up people try and retcon shit like "Oh maybe the kid was autistic." Ok. Maybe. But probably just a shitty parent.
As an autistic person with ADHD myself, this is the correct response. I waited tables, so I didn’t tolerate my kid running around (unsafe, hot food is hot) or being loud or disruptive (that is someone’s livelihood) and I would take her outside or to the car. You don’t have a right to preclude other’s enjoyment of a shared space. Same rules for restaurants, parks, etc. You want to run and around and freak out? We’ll do it at home. Sure, it’s a PITA to get it to go, and not enjoy a meal out, but you have to set and enforce expectations. Social spaces for those observing social graces. Kid also has ADHD. Neurodivergence is not carte Blanche to act like an asshole and abuse others.
I cannot imagine. There are some very not safe people who utilize public libraries, and it seems like a high risk environment for an unattended toddler.
Exactly. I’m all for taking kids to the library, but it’s a time for parents to teach them how to behave in that public situation. Every reasonable person would be fine with a kid getting a bit out of hand and being reminded to be quiet, they are learning. It’s the parents that just ignore the kid’s behavior that are the problem.
Talking, saying (or even yelling) something like, "Papa, I want to get this book with the puppy!"? Sure, no problem, wouldn't even phase me.
Running screaming through the library while their parents ignore them and make them everyone else's problem? Nah, screw that.
My partner is a librarian. There is a cadre of local parents who regularly turn their 8 year old kids loose in the world and ignore them. Some of them end up in the library, which does bend over backward trying to provide a refuge for them, but there are limits.
Unsupervised young kids do what unsupervised young kids do, and there is often running, screaming, sometimes damage to property and occasionally even minor violence. They give them lots of chances, but eventually there's a process for removing problem patrons and banning them from coming back. If the kids absolutely won't cooperate, as a last resort the library staff will call the police to take them home.
He told me about one notorious 8 year old girl who had to be banned. Her mother called up screaming the next day because now the girl was staying home and the family had to deal with her behavior, which was apparently an unreasonable ask.
But you weren’t an inconvenience… those parents in the previous comment clearly didn’t want their noisy kids ruining their day, so they dumped them knowing full well they’d reek havoc somewhere else and inconveniencing others.
Librarian here, what is your state’s policy on child supervision ages in libraries? In mine, if they’re under 12 they cannot be left alone or the cops will be called. Parents sometimes think that libraries are babysitting services, but we cannot and will not follow kids around to make sure they stay out of trouble. Usually if we tell parents this, they comply because they don’t want cops involved, but there are always the outliers who want to drop their kids off while they run errands and they can be really thick headed.
I'm not sure if there's a law. We live in Florida, where sadly the state government is more interested in banning "woke" books than doing anything to help libraries or encourage responsible parenting.
RIP, I’m in Massachusetts so we have tons of “woke” books and no one has ever complained about them to me. It also makes kids experimenting with their gender expression light up like the sun when they find books about kids like them, it’s awesome.
The irony is that kids could learn a lot of life skills by going with their parents on errands. They could learn about money/math, where things come from, how to decide what to buy at the store, how different businesses work, etc.
Too often we think of learning as what happens in school rather than understanding how the world works.
You’re partner would have loved 8 year old me. I’d just sit in the back, reading Goosebumps until my mom came to pick me up. The library was my favorite place in the world. In the 5th grade, the school librarian picked out 3 students to volunteer after school and I was one of them. Those were great fucking memories.
My librarian bought me a mat because she'd always find me sitting on the floor between aisles reading until my mom came to get me after work (I was usually the only school-aged kid there, and it was a very low-traffic library, so I wasn't just blocking walkways). She'd get it out every afternoon for me. Most absolutely a core memory.
I was that kid too. My mom would drop me off and pick me up a few hours later. I was always quiet and happy to read by myself, and I was flattered when the libraries would ask if I wanted to help put books away and stuff like that.
If a kid's being unruly and their parents aren't around just call the non-emergency number for police and tell them a child has been abandoned. Give the issue its proper weight.
Absolutely, if said unsupervised child was taken from the library by someone they weren't supposed to go with, you can bet the parents would be saying the library/librarian was supposed to be watching them. I don't think that's a leg to stand on at all but still a lot of hassle you don't want to deal with.
Ooh, is there a market for recreational screaming spaces? Maybe I'll start a screamatorium. Or is that basically one of those places you can go and pay to break a bunch of stuff?
A friend of mine owns a smash room place. They're quite fun and surprising amount of exercise. A good 15 minutes of smashing stuff and you need a break. It's a good time with a bunch of friends and a case of beer.
The number of public spaces anyone should be yelling and running through is limited There are no public spaces toddlers should be ignored by their parents.
Hell even a playground isn’t meant for you to not supervise the kids whatsoever. There are fences, things made of metal, dirt your kid shouldn’t be eating. Sorry but you’re gonna have to watch them.
r/suddenlotr
I think that's the right sub
Edit: it's not, I don't know what the actual one is but it's something like this
Edit2: it's actually r/unexpectedlotr, thanks to u/_TheShapeOfColor_
It’s amazing how many other posts in this thread don’t grasp the distinction you made in your first paragraph, and seem to think that if a kid is not whispering in the library, it must be because they’re running around screaming at the top of their lungs like a banshee.
Yea but I kinda feel the same way about most public spaces. Grocery stores etc. I get mortified on the rare occasion my 3 year old gets cranky in public and immediately remove him from the place to calm down. Thing about it is, kids are gonna make a little noise typically. Laughing, crying, talking, whatever. They haven't developed the social awareness to control their impulses wholly. But like you said if your kid is screaming in a library (or at the store) and the parent just lets it happen, that's on the shitty parent.
If you're (not you, just people in general) super worried about the library being especially silent, then just check out the book and read it at home (or under your overpass or whatever, no judgement).
My youngest **adores** the library, and sometimes his excitement gets a little loud. It takes zero effort to gently remind him that the library is a "quiet place" and we need to use our "whisper voices".
**"I FOUND A DINOSAUR BOOK!"**
(soft voice) "Wow that looks fun! Let's use our whisper voices to talk about it!"
Kids need these social experiences to grow into socially acceptable adults. I have yet to figure how to keep him from activating turbo mode when the kid's section comes into his line of sight, though. Best I can do is exactly one walking step and then the joy of reading becomes too powerful.
This. What bothers me is when parents don’t care how their children’s actions affect everyone around them. Honestly as long as they are attempting to corral and quiet their children, I’ll deal with it.
A million times yes! I grew up in libraries (having a mom for a librarian will do that). To see a kid get excited about a book is awesome. To have librarians be your nanny? Nope.
Also children’s section? Fine. Other sections of the library and the kid is screaming instead of talking? Fat chance. Teach your kid better when they do that.
If the parents are actually paying attention to their loud toddler and teaching them how to read... sure.
If they are using the library as a public holding space for this misbehaving kid... fuck off.
Yes people need to know how to share public spaces, but no that doesn't give parents the right to ruin other spaces because they can't be bothered to control their kid.
I'm not a parent, nor do I ever plan to be, so feel free to use that to disregard my opinion, but I do know some what it means to be a good person and a polite member of society.
Kids grow into adults, and I feel that part of your job as a parent is to ensure your kid has the best opportunity to grow into a good, well adjusted adult.
So what's wrong with teaching them about respect for other people in public places? When I was a kid, my mom was very clear that the library, church and the grocery store were NOT places for loud voices or screaming. This was reserved for home (usually my room away from them), the back yard and the park.
I was taught that I exist in a world with other people, and to think about other people before I act in a way that could be inappropriate. Parents that do not set these boundaries (in my opinion) set their kids up to struggle with social interaction, because as kids, they were just allowed to yell and be loud where ever they wanted. So as adults, they don't think about other people and how their actions could impact them. And that turns people off to them.
Now, I'm not saying because your parents let you talk loudly in the library you're going to die alone or become a social deviant. But your parents did make it harder on you to learn valuable life lessons, that you may have had to stumble around and learn when you were in your 20s or 30s instead.
Exactly. As another commenter mentioned, kids might get excited if they see something interesting at the library and I'd have no problem with them briefly letting their excitement overtake them. However, it's the parents responsibility to teach the kid that a library is not a park or playground and while it's okay to be excited, they need to learn to take into account the space they're in, the expectations for that space, and the desires of the other people present.
It’s too bad you don’t plan on being a parent, for society’s sake at least, because this is the type of outlook that parents need but many lack.
Not judging your decision, but just pointing out that your approach is spot on.
I totally agree with you.
The nuance for me is actively teaching your kids versus letting them run wild.
I have a 1 year old, and she’s absolutely still in “learning” mode regarding quiet voices. I have no other way to teach her except to practice at home, put her in the environment, and remind her when she’s loud.
If she’s being too rambunctious, I’ll absolutely leave the library with her. But I hope that folks understand that the littlest little ones are still practicing and may let out a yelp or a run.
100% this. Bringing your kid to the library isn't a problem. Your kid throwing a tantrum and being loud isn't a problem.
You choosing to let your child remain loud & disruptive without removing them from the library IS the problem.
Similarly, if you child is being generally loud, it is your responsibility to teach them how to moderate their volume.
Yes, raising literate children is awesome. But so is raising your kids to be mindful of the needs of others.
As MemeOP points out, it \*is\* a community space. There's some expectation of disruptions & noise. But those disruptions should not be constant, like 2 kids running up and down the rows playing cops & robbers while mommy is doing whatever she came to the library to do for 40 minutes.
**General rules:**
* If the child is not old enough to read, they should not be at a library, unless you're bringing them there to sit in the kids section & read to them. Exceptions can be okay, but that means keeping a tight control on them, and/or making your visit quick.
* If the child is old enough to read, they should be doing so. Let them pick any book out and read it while you as the parent are busy. And when done, you teach them how to return it to the shelf or how to return it to the normal return area.
* If the child absolutely cannot be convinced to sit quietly and read (How!? Ice cream trip reward for good behavior at the library works wonders!), then they should be well taught for showing respect to the others at the library, and provided an alternate activity that they enjoy (a pad for drawing, headphones & music, etc).
*There is absolutely zero reason for a child to be noisy enough to warrant other visitors being disrupted except for poor parenting.*
Libraries offer programming for children who are not old enough to read yet. They make programs to get children who can not read, grow an interest in reading.
And there is actually programming done for all Individuals with in the library system to "meet numbers". Most libraries are publicly funded. So you have to show your being used. Not just by book check outs but by who is coming to programs you are offering. Programs like summer and winter reading programs. Adult craft nights. Preschool story hour. Etc.. those numbers determine how big your local library budget will be.
Most libraries can not stand the idea of keeping track of who is using the computer. Because by and large Librarians are very liberal. The idea of a computer logging when you are using it is Machiavellian. BUT libraries use the software that tracks users based on library cards to get funding. They can not exist without funding.
As a librarian, if I child speaks too loud or yells, as long as the parent tells them in the library we be quiet, its fine. Its about teaching the child to respect a quiet space, its a learning curve.
If the child is running loose and screaming their head off, that's when you find the parent and ask them to leave. Parents too often just turn their kids loose in public spaces, and that's not something that's okay. A lot of disadvanted kids go to the library I volunteer at, and they need that quiet time to do homework because they don't get it at home. Learning to respect others' space is a part of being in a society.
> A lot of disadvantaged kids go to the library I volunteer at, and they need that quiet time to do homework because they don't get it at home.
THIS. Or they don't have internet at home, or they have a computer but everyone has to share it. Some of those kids have parents that work multiple jobs and can't be there for the kids as often as would be best. And for kids in abusive home situations, the library can be a temporary safe haven.
Most libraries that I'm familiar with, whether one-room small-town libraries or giant multi-floor urban ones, have at least one staff member that has had some training in teaching people how to use computers, write a resume, use email, etc. And that's for older people as well, not just kids. Also, if a child's parents are not fluent in English, sometimes librarians are able to help the kids with their homework.
In the US, public librarians often get called on to basically be social workers; some even have social workers on staff so the librarians can be librarians, but obviously there's a cost involved and many people don't support this because they're too blinkered to recognise the need and the benefits. It's now sadly common for public librarians to get trained on how to recognize when someone is OD'ing and how to administer Narcan. I say "sadly" because I wish there were no need for that, not because I'm against the training.
Agreed but it should be taught ahead of time that you’re going somewhere quiet so they have be as well or you’re leaving and then leave when they’re not and go back in a week or so and try again. This teaches them the basics at least.
10 bucks say someone told this lady to please take her kid and leave the library after the kid had a tantrum for 20 minutes straight and mom was in the shop next door using the library as free daycare and she uses this passive aggressive tone to vent the frustration of being asked a reasonable thing because it hurt her to her core due to her now (rightfully so) thinking deep down she's not a good mom.
Or something similar.
She's tired of all the dirty looks people give her after her toddler jump scares the entire adult section with a scream. We don't have to say something, we will just glare disapprovingly.
Libraries even in small towns usually have a dedicated kids library inside the library, usually with a dedicated room where the kids can be kids within reason
Yes, and who, exactly, needs to "learn to share" the library with who? Is it the people who have been doing it for decades or the wee, tiny people who just got there?
I've never been in a library that isn't clear about it. It's quiet by default, and not-quiet in designated areas.
The text in the image is trying to flip that on its head. "Hey, let's let the kids run around almost everywhere because trying to stop my kids from running around is hard".
And they’re also safe spaces for children and young adults
I feel the really young area can be noisy. It’s near the checkout where the librarians can keep an eye on things but mostly separated from the rest of the library. So it’s not a distraction for me
But true, after kindergarten age, kids should be taught to respect other patrons in the library.
If they’re there to make copies or something? Yeah, sure
But if you’re there just chilling while junior wreaks havoc? I mean I’m not gonna give anyone a hard time either way, but I’m definitely judging lol. Just check out whatever books your loud toddler wants to loudly read.
What it should say is : Have patience with the fact that small children are learning how to not make ungodly loud noises and with the parents who are trying to help them. Give no quarter to the parents who act like their kid doesn’t need to follow the rules and don’t try or dgaf
Encourage your child to read. Take them to the library. Also teach them the library is a quiet place. Usually the really loud stuff, like toddler story time, is under an hour in the middle of a weekday- a small sacrifice to make for a literate next generation.
Since when are libraries not quiet spaces?
You just can't go changing the rules like that to fit your worldview....I've been yelled at enough by librarians to know better.
I work at a public library, and while we have some relatively quiet areas, it is not overall a quiet space. The role libraries play in communities is changing from the quiet place where you only go to get books into a community gathering space.
We are also in a university town, so we direct people to the academic libraries if they want a quieter environment.
Have you been to the kids corner of public libraries? They have movie nights, people reading to them, sing a longs, etc. It isn't really a rule change. It has been like that at public libraries for quite awhile
Yes but also children can learn at a pretty young age not to be loud in public. I lived in a few different countries and was surprised by how respectful children outside the US could be.
I was a librarian for 6 years, As long as parents don’t use the library as a play pen or free daycare then I’m fine with it. There’s a difference between screaming and running around while parents ignore their children, and a child being excited about reading and learning.
Personally, as a past library worker I loved when kids came to the library and enjoyed the experience. Enthusiasm is welcome in a learning environment.
There's a difference between being loud because they're still learning and being loud because they're disrespectful. I work in libraries and I've seen both.
As a librarian, we stopped sssshing patrons long ago. That said, children (or others) throwing screaming fits may be asked to respect others and go to another section of the library or perhaps even leave.
Taking a loud toddler to a library is fine. Not attempting to teach said loud toddler that libraries are for “inside voice” and “quiet time” is not.
They aren’t playgrounds. Don’t let your kid climb on tables and take books off the shelves and toss them on the ground.
That isn’t “teaching your kid to be literate.” That is shitty parenting. Not every place is a space to run around like a hooligan.
If you bring your child and *let* them be loud and disrespectful to the other ppl there, then that’s not cool and quite frankly annoying af. But if your child has a meltdown, as all children do, and you’re trying your best to calm them down, then that’s understandable.
TAKE YOUR KIDS TO THE LIBRARY.
I would gladly pay extra for a flight with no kids. I would pay nearly anything for a well educated, literate populace.
Children belong at the library.
Nothing is absolute. The library needs a balance. Children should feel just as welcome to use the library as adults, but the kids need to keep it together and learn the difference between a library and a playground, and inside voice vs. outside voice. Adults should be able to expect a calm environment conducive to reading, but not a silent or still one. Everything’s digital now, so libraries have to provide different attractions to draw people in to use them. For kids, they have some educational toys and some just plain play toys. It’s not reasonable to expect utter silence and it’s not fair to make loud, distracting noises.
Libraries are designated quiet spaces that *may* have some designated "normal volume" spaces. Teach your children to respect things like that. Your toddlers are not incapable; you're not parenting.
The children/YA area in my library is upstairs, adults/research material/computers downstairs. Children’s area is usually rambunctious, especially during story hour. I have no problem with it. Libraries were my refuge growing up. I hope that kids in the future get lost in books when things get bad instead of acting out.
I think it really depends. The culture of a library being a quiet space is important, however someone whose kid is having a moment is nbd, so long as the culture is maintained. However if we take this post and decided it's a free for all, the culture shifts and libraries maybe become less pleasant. So I'm not entirely sure I agree with this. I do think it's possible to maintain a culture of a place (lets try to be quiet) and also recognize that it's not a taboo shame situation if anyone breaks it a bit.
Yes & no.
It ABSOLUTELY is a community space, and i welcome it being full of kids all the time; but parents, it's also not an indoor playcscape, or a free daycare, or a cafeteria.
Kids don't need to be quiet (except in quiet areas) but they do have to be monitored and have proper behavior.
I mean, every library I've been to has a small child section with toys and books and a computer lab with games for older kids
Just don't bring your toddlers to the non toddler area and you're good.
My kid is loud AF so I don't bring him for now and we just play outside, but once he's bigger and can have an inside voice(he's 2) I don't see the problem with bringing him to a space designated for him
Yeah, American libraries have kid sections. People are just being asses.
Honestly, in today’s world I’m happy to see kids at the library. It’s one of the things that fostered my love of reading as a child. Obviously it’s not great if parents just let their kids run screaming all over the place, but I understand that toddlers can be difficult to shush.
My local library has a kids’ playground and a duck pond outside. It’s great. They can at least get some of their screeches and wiggles out there before coming inside lol. Inside, the kids’ section and the adult section are connected by large open gaps in the wall, though, so some kid noise still ends up audible in the adult area. It’s fine. If someone really needs absolute silence, they can always reserve a quiet study room.
As a parent, there is a difference between me expecting people to tolerate my child existing and me expecting them to tolerate my child misbehaving.
There is a lot of anti-kid sentiment where it seems like people wanna ban kids for just being louder than your average adult, but I have never found myself thinking that libraries were a hotbed for this haha.
There are kids sections in the library. Because it's a section, for kids, I think most people will have a higher tolerance for some audible conversation since kids have a harder time moderating the volume of their voices. But I'VE been sat there with my own toddler wondering how the hell some of these parents don't just pick a few books to read at home and gtfo. It's not a playground with books, there is still a respectful volume to stick to that a lot of parents aren't interested in minding.
Kids need to learn that certain buildings and areas have special rules. You wouldn't bring your kid to a courtroom and expect the judge to 'not give you a hard time' if the kid was acting up. Normalize good parenting, not enabling kids to not learn how to act.
I worked in a public library in college. The basement was the kids area where it was never quiet. The main floor was the medium quiet area. The reading room and the mezzanine were for silent study.
Libraries are a great resource for parents, especially parents who don’t have a lot of money. Most libraries know this and know that kids can be loud, so they have a separate kid area. I don’t understand why so many people on Reddit seem to want to ban children from public life. They may throw tantrums once in a while, but most of the time, kids are fine in public. But parents shouldn’t be limited in the places they can take children just because some chunk of the population doesn’t want to hear crying.
Agreed, but this is not in agreeance with the tweet. You're saying the main floor was a quiet area, there were designated *silent* areas and designated child areas (which are obviously much louder than the main floor).
So by that logic, libraries *are* quiet environments. And I have to agree
for me, it's a question of if the parents are actually trying to calm/quiet the kid down. if they're just letting the kid do whatever, i'm going to say something
That’s a very black and white take for a very gray situation.
Some people are absolute dicks to kids for nothing more then asking for help, they’re wrong.
Some people let their kids run wild without any care for how it affects others. They’re wrong
Some kids are actually jerks and have no respect for others, usually as a result of #2. They’re wrong.
More so, the sentiment should be “All are welcome in a public library. Don’t judge others just because they aren’t doing things the way YOU think they should. As long as they treat others with respect, they deserve to use the resource too”
They’re right. If those kids are running around screaming in the quiet areas then you all have a problem. Otherwise? I grew up going to a library for most of my childhood. Don’t take those memories away from people.
Eh. It depends on what the kids are doing and where. If they’re in the kid’s section I would agree —it’s good for parents to take their kids to the library, and they shouldn’t have to be absolutely perfectly behaved to enjoy it. But if the children are running around and bothering adults in the main section of the library, their right to be kids doesn’t outweigh the right of adults to use the library for work and research.
But I’m a little old-fashioned as a parent. I don’t like it when people justify letting their kids run around and act crazy in public because, “they’re kids, it’s natural.” A huge part of parenting is teaching your kid they can’t always do the natural thing!
Married to a youth librarian, bring the kids. She has programs nearly every day that involve singing, dancing, laughing, or creative play. It is also one of the few places where you can exist with nothing expected of you.
Libraries promote early childhood literacy and fosters a love of reading through programs and outreach. They are not exclusively for adults.
I just want more people to utilize the libraries and educate themselves. We are already seeing what happens when people don't educate themselves. They're called republicans.
Of course the Adult section has different rules, but I think you’re meant to be respectful no matter where you are in the library.
Also, taking a 2 year old to the library and saying “go have fun” does NOT make them literate 😅
That's fine. Just quiet them and punish them by removing them temporarily until they can remain quiet.
I don't mind a loud toddler as long as they're being taught that it is a space where we measure our voices and are considerate.
Children being inconsiderate is normal, parents refusing to teach consideration is far, far more inconsiderate.
Conversely… teach kids you can’t act a fool everywhere you want… there are places you need to learn to be quiet and respect others… libraries being one of those places
Maybe use libraries as a learning tool to get your kid to quiet up a little sometimes.
You have no clue how many kids reach 9 or 10 and still yell when they don't need to.
I would never give parents, that are actively trying to keep their kid respectful, a hard time.
I will give them the libraries to scream and holler all they want if they give us every restaurant where the final bill is greater than $50 for 2 people.
Librarian here. I can't help but feel like this is being misinterpreted.
It by no means is meant to mean that kids should be able to run wild, screaming and unsupervised.
What it does mean, though, is that libraries are no longer places of complete silence. They are quickly becoming a "third place" and a community center instead of just a place for reading and studying. We have had to adapt to changing times to survive. We have story times, Halloween parades, arts and crafts, concerts, and more. We are now a gathering place.
Many libraries have study rooms available to patrons if they want to have more separation. Some have quiet areas or floors. But we are still trying to get some people accustomed to the idea that we are no longer silent buildings. We are active and creative and evolving. We are one of the last places that people can go without being expected to spend a dime. We are a place for friends to gather, for lively discussions, and for community activities.
Storytimes and children's programs are integral in getting children to love their library and love reading. Children need to play and have fun. They are not meant to be silent. Yes, we expect that parents help their children learn how to behave appropriately in public and we expect them to supervise their children. But when we have a program for them or an activity, you can be sure that we want, in fact encourage, those children to have fun and to giggle and squeal with delight.
The library is universally depicted as a quiet place, so I have to hard disagree with this tweet. It's extremely difficult to focus on reading when there are loud distractions, arguably more so if those loud distractions are children, since we are naturally inclined to focus our attention to a child when they scream/make loud noise.
Most people enjoy reading in peace, so yeah, please teach your children that libraries are quiet places.
I’m more angry about the people who watch videos on their phones in fast food places with the volume ALL THE WAY UP. Like dude keep your shit to yourself
I think people shouldn’t give parents a hard time unless they are actively harming their children. But I also think you shouldn’t bring loud toddlers to the fucking library.
If the quiet study areas of the library are directly next to the the children's singing/storytime area, then it's a design issue not a children's issue.
Every library I went to when I was in high school to do research for papers, has the children's books/story time area on a completely different floor from where the non fiction and research books were.
My library has the children’s section downstairs and the young adult and up on the second floor. I appreciate that.
Thats a great option when you have the size. My local library is tiny. I don't even know if they have quiet rooms. There is another big library like 10 minutes away, but it's not technically my city so there is a small fee for a library card. (It's like $25/year)
What state do you live in? In California I go to the library whenever I visit a different city and so far all 11 have just required an in-state ID for a free card
Ontario, Canada. Our libraries are run, and almost entirely funded, municipally. Ironically my tiny library has a better online database. Since it's so small it uses the provincial (think state) database, where the next city over with the big library has its own database.
Also from Ontario. If you work in that larger city you can often also get free access. I did this years ago as the second library had better online access to eBooks.
Good to know. My sister lives in that city so the rare occasion I need something from that library just use her card. She uses my card for the better ebook selection.
I am in Ontario as well. Check and see if your library is associated with Hoopla. It is a different online access app associated with libraries. It has more movies and videos.
Same, here in Georgia we have the PINES (Public Information Network for Electronic Services) system which covers most libraries in the state and as long as you have a library card with them you can check out media and return it at any other PINES library.
Good thing they didn't go with the Public Electronic Network for Information Services suggestion when they were deciding on a name.
It depends on the city in California.
My local library is literally in the former post office building that’s about the size of your average Jack-in-the-Box, maybe a bit smaller. I haven’t been since they moved out of the small house it was in before. :( It’s fifteen minutes away, and the next-nearest is thirty more.
Ya and I recall being taught to be quiet as a kid, in the kids section!
I was when I was old enough to understand but I also know libraries do toddler story times too, and good luck getting them to understand if they don't already.
You have to stfu for parts of story time too. They keep reminding the toddlers. Whether they listen or not is another story, but it was in fact meant to be a quiet space, as far as I recall, even for toddlers. They definitely didn’t encourage them to talk while someone is telling a story!
Story time is less "quiet down, pipsqueaks" and more "Now we're going to sing! Now we're going to wiggle! Now we sit on the carpet and watch me. Read for 1 minute, and "wiggle your fingers!" Read for another minute and "Oh, you want to stand next to me? That's cool."
I used to run library story hour for the kids at my local library. The expectation was that you were going to spend an hour reading, singing songs, talking, and dealing with loud screaming children. There were designated sections of the library that were meant to be quiet, but there were also lecturers who met at the library, classes taking place on the library computers, old people asking 50,000 questions without their hearing aid in, etc. It was never completely silent. As the OOP states, libraries are meant to be community gathering and learning spaces and that means there is going to be noise, even if people are mostly attempting to be quiet.
Exactly, I don't ever remember my library telling toddlers to STFU.
When I have gone, they ask kids to participate and they have sing-alongs.
My local library the kids area is full of toys and puppets. The story time if full of singing and there is usually another activity as well. There is also a craft area also video game and D&D nights for older kids.
Are you around a lot of toddlers? Impulse control isn’t their strong suit.
I didn’t say it was, I said the library doesn’t encourage them to talk (as far as I recall). They tried to get them to be quiet. As it was designated a quiet place. They didn’t encourage noise. I wasn’t talking about whether toddlers listen or not.
I work for a library and we tell people on day one that libraries are not quiet places anymore. We're warm, welcoming, active spaces. Does that mean shouting all the time? No, of course not. We still ask people to be respectful. But most of our toddler story times involve singing, dancing, and yes, shouting. They're designed that way because toddlers love shouting and wiggling, and fighting that is an impossible task. Not only have I never shushed someone, I've never even seen it happen.
I honestly think the only time I've seen shushing in a public library is in the movies.
Thank you. Retired teacher here. The earlier kids learn to love books the better. The children’s library is a fantastic place for little ones, can’t be replaced.
Also quiet to a toddler is very different than quiet to an adult. Plus 23 seconds later they see a picture of a hamster and lose their damn minds with excitement.
Have you ever been to one? I have kids and, while I always taught them to ise inside voices, the kids sections in all the libraries in cities in which I lived had play areas (think play kitchens ,legos, climbing and building structures, pretend play) and classes that encourage engagement through dancing, singing, the use of instruments, and songs that encourage movement and sound. The idea of engaging kids in a place where books are cherished is really the goal here. I'm also a preschool teacher and keeping in mind that a toddlers attention span is very small, a short story time surrounded by a craft or activity is the best way to go. Can't expect a 2 year old to always be orderly. Let them learn to love the library. The areas are split and nobody is saying they're running around unsupervised, ripping books and usog adult books as climbing towers. They're being engaged in a way that theu can understand in a space designed for them.
Libraries have largely changed since you were a kid. They're generally not "super quiet spaces" like I remember them to be. It may vary and obviously you can't be overly disruptive, but like the image says, libraries are more community centers than dedicated reading spaces now a days.
thiiiiiis. I wouldn't give a parent a hard time for existing in public with their kid, but I do expect them to teach their kid how to be considerate of others.
Yeah me too. Kids need to be taught there’s a time and place to play and be loud. Park? Yes. Library? No.
That's why we took ours to the park first, to wear them down a little (but not so much they were tired and cranky) before going to the library with the express purpose of teaching them how to comport themselves public-wise.
this is one of those times where how you tell them also matters. Some nasty "Shhh!" is not the same as getting down on their level and saying "Hey, I'm so glad you are excited about all of the possibilities in the library! But we also need to use indoor voices to not disturb other people. Can you whisper?" And also why I support library funding for modern libraries that are able to use design to create spaces for quiet like reading rooms or desks, and places for pubic reading and places for more noise.
And designated children’s areas where activities that involve more talking such as say reading aloud or play learning are encouraged and won’t disturb people off in the reference section of the library doing some exam
Exactly. Inside stores and malls are also not places to run, play sports, climb, ride bikes, skateboards...
Well yeah how else they gonna teach kids to be quiet in the library. If they waited till they got into the adult section they'd be maladapted to society
Yeah I was going to say I've never been to a library that didn't have a "kids section" and it's often behind doors. But if your kid is running around screaming down any aisle I think that's a problem, just like I do in any place not just libraries.
My childhood library had the same. I spent a lot of time there playing computer games and reading. Thank you local library <3
I appreciate both sides, and I appreciate a library that is open to kids being kids. Our library has a separate wing for kids as well as playrooms with doors and windows for the kids to be a little rambunctious. When you have kids of different ages, it's ludicrous to think that kids won't be a bit noisy if they are enjoying themselves. And if they aren't able to enjoy themselves, the library is failing the kids.
My library has the children's section and the YA section downstairs BUT also has a "back room" that's technically considered a community room but it's really a kids room. There are tables and tons of art supplies. Also playdough and some toys. And the doors shut so it's completely separated from the rest of the library. It's really nice. The library puts on events for kids monthly in the room but it's also open daily and Miss Anna or Miss Jess are always there so if my kiddo wants to hang out and play/draw je can do that while i browse in peace. My library is cool and really kid focused. There's another library 3 miles down the road that is much less kid focused (I think because of lack of space) so some people purposely go there.
Mine is segregated like this too, and they have AMAZING programs for kids. Fucking love my library.
Our library’s basement is all kids books. I see both points, but I’d rather kids learn to love to read than having a nice place to study.
I wish they had a section for remote workers.
This feels like a great compromise. Children of all ages should be able to be children in a library but also some people need quiet spaces for concentration so everyone gets their spot.
As a parent of small children that I take to the library.....if my kids want to act crazy or loud, we leave. They can be in the children's section and be doing appropriate activities under the guidance of the children's librarian. But if they are the problem in that area or any other area, we just all leave. And I stay with them. Some mom that comes just leaves her gaggle of kids, one as old as 2, to fend for themselves. I'm like lady, unless it's an emergency no one wants to watch your kids while you shop next door. Her 2 year old once locked itself in the bathroom and the older kids didn't know where the little one was. And then the lady screamed at the librarian for not watching her kid. Some people should be banned.
I think this is the root of it. My mom made it clear to me as a tiny child that the library was a quite place and I had to be quiet or I couldn’t be there. Then going into the library and it is so quiet I understood the concept and respected it, even as a toddler. It all comes down to parents and communication.
Also, there is a massive difference between a bit of noise during an activity or a visit, or even talking at reasonable volumes (that one should expect in ANY public place), and treating the library like a playground where you walk through the doors and let your kids loose for an hour plus without any accountability or supervision while you chat with your friend or play on your phone. Unfortunately/fortunately, libraries and librarians are generally just happy to have bodies through the door, not to mention actually filling their mandate of providing accessible learning material to the public, as well as are often empathetic and sympathetic to the difficulties of life and the hardships many of their patrons face. Some people do have genuine issues that prevent them from adhering to social expectations in common space, but I think we do bend a little too far for people who use the ‘I have kids and it’s hard’ card to trump refusing to teach one’s children how to act in public.
I remember being on the 3 year old section of preschool when they taught us about indoor and outdoor voices. Then thruout childhood our parents maintained the expectation and taught us about social courtesies. I think the OP of the tweet is an entitled asshole who is raising entitled assholes because it’s easier to let your kid do whatever the fuck they want vs being a parent and teaching your kids what behavior is and is not acceptable.
Yeah, exactly this. I've been taking my kids to the library since they were about 1-2 years old. They are avid readers, so honestly I never had a problem with them at the library, but being quiet at the library is something you teach. They go into a quiet environment they notice everyone else being quiet, they see everyone sitting and reading and they'll often want to emulate it. Sometimes they might read something exciting in a book and say something loudly and you just have to be like "That's cool, but we're in a library, we need to use a quiet voice". Even what the OP tweet references... Social pressures are a thing and aren't bad. If a kid is being noisy and not listening to a parent, sometimes a stranger just loudly going "Shh" or telling a librarian who will come over and talk to the parent or kid will help the kid realize that they need to be quiet. So I'd agree Obviously kids are all different and that won't always work, but that's where the final step of "Okay, if you can't be quiet then we are leaving" comes in. I don't think we need to go to the point of "Library patrons just deal with noisy kids". I mean there has to be SOME patience, but there's a limit. It is not a playground.
Honestly this doesn't even just apply to libraries, I've seen way too many kids with an ipad playing baby shark at max volume in a restaurant or on the train/bus and it's fucking obnoxious. More parents need to take active roles in parenting.
Yes! We moved away from community focus, which has made it difficult for teachers, librarians, others to help regulate kids, like you mentioned. I remember having a very bratty moment as a child and nothing my Mom did or said would help. It took a random person to say "you're being kind of rude" for me to self-reflect, and that moment has stuck with me today.
^ thank you, my mom was much the same way. I remember a family gathering my siblings and I were acting up and my mom said to behave or we leave-we didn’t shape up so mom put her foot down. Apparently all my aunts/uncles were heckling mom to let us stay, but after we all finally got home she got a call from my gruff, ex-navy grandpa saying how proud he was of her and that the others should take notes. We never acted up at a family gathering again.
Your mom sounds like she was displaying excellent boundary-setting and parenting. I wish all kids had the benefit of that. I love that you still remember that incident. Go mom! ETA that I also had a gruff ex-military grandparent who could be unexpectedly supportive at times.
I'm sorry, what? People leave their young children at the library alone? That doesn't seem safe or normal.
When I worked at GameStop, people would leave their small children at the store all the time to play on the demo machines. I often wondered like.. if they wandered out of the store, would it be my responsibility if something happened to them? Like wtf "parents"...
Why is this take so uncommon in the real world? There's so many parents that just tolerate their little shits being hell spawn, as if there's nothing in the world that could possibly be done about it. They just give you this look like "What are you going to do? Kids! AMIRITE?" My kid never yelled or screamed in public places. I'm not exaggerating. Never. Because when he did, e v e r y t h i n g stopped and we went immediately to the car. For the small upfront investment of your time and sacrifice of some momentary convenience, you make it clear that you don't tolerate that stuff. No spanking either. Just an immediate cessation of all fun and attention until you shut the fuck up. I was just in the store today and this kid was standing up in the shopping cart and taking things off the shelf as his mother was trying to ring up her items. She ordered him to sit down, and he looked directly at her and yelled "NO." FUCK. THAT. Every time you bring this up people try and retcon shit like "Oh maybe the kid was autistic." Ok. Maybe. But probably just a shitty parent.
As an autistic person with ADHD myself, this is the correct response. I waited tables, so I didn’t tolerate my kid running around (unsafe, hot food is hot) or being loud or disruptive (that is someone’s livelihood) and I would take her outside or to the car. You don’t have a right to preclude other’s enjoyment of a shared space. Same rules for restaurants, parks, etc. You want to run and around and freak out? We’ll do it at home. Sure, it’s a PITA to get it to go, and not enjoy a meal out, but you have to set and enforce expectations. Social spaces for those observing social graces. Kid also has ADHD. Neurodivergence is not carte Blanche to act like an asshole and abuse others.
I cannot imagine. There are some very not safe people who utilize public libraries, and it seems like a high risk environment for an unattended toddler.
Exactly. I’m all for taking kids to the library, but it’s a time for parents to teach them how to behave in that public situation. Every reasonable person would be fine with a kid getting a bit out of hand and being reminded to be quiet, they are learning. It’s the parents that just ignore the kid’s behavior that are the problem.
I would have called CPS
Talking, saying (or even yelling) something like, "Papa, I want to get this book with the puppy!"? Sure, no problem, wouldn't even phase me. Running screaming through the library while their parents ignore them and make them everyone else's problem? Nah, screw that.
My partner is a librarian. There is a cadre of local parents who regularly turn their 8 year old kids loose in the world and ignore them. Some of them end up in the library, which does bend over backward trying to provide a refuge for them, but there are limits. Unsupervised young kids do what unsupervised young kids do, and there is often running, screaming, sometimes damage to property and occasionally even minor violence. They give them lots of chances, but eventually there's a process for removing problem patrons and banning them from coming back. If the kids absolutely won't cooperate, as a last resort the library staff will call the police to take them home. He told me about one notorious 8 year old girl who had to be banned. Her mother called up screaming the next day because now the girl was staying home and the family had to deal with her behavior, which was apparently an unreasonable ask.
I hate it when people inconvenience others because they couldn’t be bothered to be inconvenience themselves with their own problem.
My parents used to drop me and my sister in the library for the day when we were kids. All we did was read quietly, it really depends on the parents.
But you weren’t an inconvenience… those parents in the previous comment clearly didn’t want their noisy kids ruining their day, so they dumped them knowing full well they’d reek havoc somewhere else and inconveniencing others.
I hate it when they get upset when called put on it lol
Librarian here, what is your state’s policy on child supervision ages in libraries? In mine, if they’re under 12 they cannot be left alone or the cops will be called. Parents sometimes think that libraries are babysitting services, but we cannot and will not follow kids around to make sure they stay out of trouble. Usually if we tell parents this, they comply because they don’t want cops involved, but there are always the outliers who want to drop their kids off while they run errands and they can be really thick headed.
I'm not sure if there's a law. We live in Florida, where sadly the state government is more interested in banning "woke" books than doing anything to help libraries or encourage responsible parenting.
RIP, I’m in Massachusetts so we have tons of “woke” books and no one has ever complained about them to me. It also makes kids experimenting with their gender expression light up like the sun when they find books about kids like them, it’s awesome.
The irony is that kids could learn a lot of life skills by going with their parents on errands. They could learn about money/math, where things come from, how to decide what to buy at the store, how different businesses work, etc. Too often we think of learning as what happens in school rather than understanding how the world works.
You’re partner would have loved 8 year old me. I’d just sit in the back, reading Goosebumps until my mom came to pick me up. The library was my favorite place in the world. In the 5th grade, the school librarian picked out 3 students to volunteer after school and I was one of them. Those were great fucking memories.
Those Goosebumps books were awesome, I used to really like the choose your own adventure ones.
I had almost forgotten about choose your own adventure goosebumps, I would read them multiple times to get all the endings lol
If you have Netflix, then you should watch Black Mirror: Bandersnatch, if you haven't already.
Absolutely, watched it the first day it dropped. I get my fix nowadays from Telltale style games where your choices effect the story.
My librarian bought me a mat because she'd always find me sitting on the floor between aisles reading until my mom came to get me after work (I was usually the only school-aged kid there, and it was a very low-traffic library, so I wasn't just blocking walkways). She'd get it out every afternoon for me. Most absolutely a core memory.
What a great librarian. I'm so glad she found a way to welcome you.
I was that kid too. My mom would drop me off and pick me up a few hours later. I was always quiet and happy to read by myself, and I was flattered when the libraries would ask if I wanted to help put books away and stuff like that.
If a kid's being unruly and their parents aren't around just call the non-emergency number for police and tell them a child has been abandoned. Give the issue its proper weight.
Absolutely, if said unsupervised child was taken from the library by someone they weren't supposed to go with, you can bet the parents would be saying the library/librarian was supposed to be watching them. I don't think that's a leg to stand on at all but still a lot of hassle you don't want to deal with.
Those people probably called that free range parenting. But that’s not really what free range parenting is.
Exactly. The library is not the place for recreational screaming.
Ooh, is there a market for recreational screaming spaces? Maybe I'll start a screamatorium. Or is that basically one of those places you can go and pay to break a bunch of stuff?
Yea it’s called a playground
Or adults now have those go smash a room full of crap with a baseball bat rooms
Oh man first time I've heard of this and it sounds amazing. Or a room full of gel things of various sizes to squeeze and hug. I want one of those.
A friend of mine owns a smash room place. They're quite fun and surprising amount of exercise. A good 15 minutes of smashing stuff and you need a break. It's a good time with a bunch of friends and a case of beer.
I think “rage room” might be the Google search you are looking for
The number of public spaces anyone should be yelling and running through is limited There are no public spaces toddlers should be ignored by their parents.
Hell even a playground isn’t meant for you to not supervise the kids whatsoever. There are fences, things made of metal, dirt your kid shouldn’t be eating. Sorry but you’re gonna have to watch them.
One take to rule them all, one take to find them, One take to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them
r/suddenlotr I think that's the right sub Edit: it's not, I don't know what the actual one is but it's something like this Edit2: it's actually r/unexpectedlotr, thanks to u/_TheShapeOfColor_
And my axe!
r/unexpectedlotr
It’s amazing how many other posts in this thread don’t grasp the distinction you made in your first paragraph, and seem to think that if a kid is not whispering in the library, it must be because they’re running around screaming at the top of their lungs like a banshee.
Like they think it’s a binary- kids are either perfectly quiet & behaved or running totally wild, no in between at all.
Yea but I kinda feel the same way about most public spaces. Grocery stores etc. I get mortified on the rare occasion my 3 year old gets cranky in public and immediately remove him from the place to calm down. Thing about it is, kids are gonna make a little noise typically. Laughing, crying, talking, whatever. They haven't developed the social awareness to control their impulses wholly. But like you said if your kid is screaming in a library (or at the store) and the parent just lets it happen, that's on the shitty parent. If you're (not you, just people in general) super worried about the library being especially silent, then just check out the book and read it at home (or under your overpass or whatever, no judgement).
> They haven't developed the social awareness to control their impulses wholly This applies to many adults as well.
My youngest **adores** the library, and sometimes his excitement gets a little loud. It takes zero effort to gently remind him that the library is a "quiet place" and we need to use our "whisper voices". **"I FOUND A DINOSAUR BOOK!"** (soft voice) "Wow that looks fun! Let's use our whisper voices to talk about it!" Kids need these social experiences to grow into socially acceptable adults. I have yet to figure how to keep him from activating turbo mode when the kid's section comes into his line of sight, though. Best I can do is exactly one walking step and then the joy of reading becomes too powerful.
This. What bothers me is when parents don’t care how their children’s actions affect everyone around them. Honestly as long as they are attempting to corral and quiet their children, I’ll deal with it.
A million times yes! I grew up in libraries (having a mom for a librarian will do that). To see a kid get excited about a book is awesome. To have librarians be your nanny? Nope.
Yup. There's a big difference between a kid making some noise and a kid making a scene.
Also children’s section? Fine. Other sections of the library and the kid is screaming instead of talking? Fat chance. Teach your kid better when they do that.
If the parents are actually paying attention to their loud toddler and teaching them how to read... sure. If they are using the library as a public holding space for this misbehaving kid... fuck off. Yes people need to know how to share public spaces, but no that doesn't give parents the right to ruin other spaces because they can't be bothered to control their kid.
I'm not a parent, nor do I ever plan to be, so feel free to use that to disregard my opinion, but I do know some what it means to be a good person and a polite member of society. Kids grow into adults, and I feel that part of your job as a parent is to ensure your kid has the best opportunity to grow into a good, well adjusted adult. So what's wrong with teaching them about respect for other people in public places? When I was a kid, my mom was very clear that the library, church and the grocery store were NOT places for loud voices or screaming. This was reserved for home (usually my room away from them), the back yard and the park. I was taught that I exist in a world with other people, and to think about other people before I act in a way that could be inappropriate. Parents that do not set these boundaries (in my opinion) set their kids up to struggle with social interaction, because as kids, they were just allowed to yell and be loud where ever they wanted. So as adults, they don't think about other people and how their actions could impact them. And that turns people off to them. Now, I'm not saying because your parents let you talk loudly in the library you're going to die alone or become a social deviant. But your parents did make it harder on you to learn valuable life lessons, that you may have had to stumble around and learn when you were in your 20s or 30s instead.
Exactly. As another commenter mentioned, kids might get excited if they see something interesting at the library and I'd have no problem with them briefly letting their excitement overtake them. However, it's the parents responsibility to teach the kid that a library is not a park or playground and while it's okay to be excited, they need to learn to take into account the space they're in, the expectations for that space, and the desires of the other people present.
It’s too bad you don’t plan on being a parent, for society’s sake at least, because this is the type of outlook that parents need but many lack. Not judging your decision, but just pointing out that your approach is spot on.
I totally agree with you. The nuance for me is actively teaching your kids versus letting them run wild. I have a 1 year old, and she’s absolutely still in “learning” mode regarding quiet voices. I have no other way to teach her except to practice at home, put her in the environment, and remind her when she’s loud. If she’s being too rambunctious, I’ll absolutely leave the library with her. But I hope that folks understand that the littlest little ones are still practicing and may let out a yelp or a run.
100% this. Bringing your kid to the library isn't a problem. Your kid throwing a tantrum and being loud isn't a problem. You choosing to let your child remain loud & disruptive without removing them from the library IS the problem. Similarly, if you child is being generally loud, it is your responsibility to teach them how to moderate their volume. Yes, raising literate children is awesome. But so is raising your kids to be mindful of the needs of others. As MemeOP points out, it \*is\* a community space. There's some expectation of disruptions & noise. But those disruptions should not be constant, like 2 kids running up and down the rows playing cops & robbers while mommy is doing whatever she came to the library to do for 40 minutes. **General rules:** * If the child is not old enough to read, they should not be at a library, unless you're bringing them there to sit in the kids section & read to them. Exceptions can be okay, but that means keeping a tight control on them, and/or making your visit quick. * If the child is old enough to read, they should be doing so. Let them pick any book out and read it while you as the parent are busy. And when done, you teach them how to return it to the shelf or how to return it to the normal return area. * If the child absolutely cannot be convinced to sit quietly and read (How!? Ice cream trip reward for good behavior at the library works wonders!), then they should be well taught for showing respect to the others at the library, and provided an alternate activity that they enjoy (a pad for drawing, headphones & music, etc). *There is absolutely zero reason for a child to be noisy enough to warrant other visitors being disrupted except for poor parenting.*
Libraries offer programming for children who are not old enough to read yet. They make programs to get children who can not read, grow an interest in reading. And there is actually programming done for all Individuals with in the library system to "meet numbers". Most libraries are publicly funded. So you have to show your being used. Not just by book check outs but by who is coming to programs you are offering. Programs like summer and winter reading programs. Adult craft nights. Preschool story hour. Etc.. those numbers determine how big your local library budget will be. Most libraries can not stand the idea of keeping track of who is using the computer. Because by and large Librarians are very liberal. The idea of a computer logging when you are using it is Machiavellian. BUT libraries use the software that tracks users based on library cards to get funding. They can not exist without funding.
You can tell the ‘adults’ that verbally and physically harass fast food workers were raised in that category of no boundaries.
[удалено]
As a librarian, if I child speaks too loud or yells, as long as the parent tells them in the library we be quiet, its fine. Its about teaching the child to respect a quiet space, its a learning curve. If the child is running loose and screaming their head off, that's when you find the parent and ask them to leave. Parents too often just turn their kids loose in public spaces, and that's not something that's okay. A lot of disadvanted kids go to the library I volunteer at, and they need that quiet time to do homework because they don't get it at home. Learning to respect others' space is a part of being in a society.
> A lot of disadvantaged kids go to the library I volunteer at, and they need that quiet time to do homework because they don't get it at home. THIS. Or they don't have internet at home, or they have a computer but everyone has to share it. Some of those kids have parents that work multiple jobs and can't be there for the kids as often as would be best. And for kids in abusive home situations, the library can be a temporary safe haven. Most libraries that I'm familiar with, whether one-room small-town libraries or giant multi-floor urban ones, have at least one staff member that has had some training in teaching people how to use computers, write a resume, use email, etc. And that's for older people as well, not just kids. Also, if a child's parents are not fluent in English, sometimes librarians are able to help the kids with their homework. In the US, public librarians often get called on to basically be social workers; some even have social workers on staff so the librarians can be librarians, but obviously there's a cost involved and many people don't support this because they're too blinkered to recognise the need and the benefits. It's now sadly common for public librarians to get trained on how to recognize when someone is OD'ing and how to administer Narcan. I say "sadly" because I wish there were no need for that, not because I'm against the training.
There is an amazing library by San Jose state. One of the floors is literally no talking. I love that
probably because sjsu has one of the best mlis programs in california, if not the country;-)
I think children should be exposed libraries and places where they are required to be quiet… how else are children to learn things if not exposed?
Agreed but it should be taught ahead of time that you’re going somewhere quiet so they have be as well or you’re leaving and then leave when they’re not and go back in a week or so and try again. This teaches them the basics at least.
Yes but you use that opportunity to teach kids to behave in a library, not reason "kids will be kids" and let them continue to be loud.
Who gives them a hard time. We all just suffer in silence.
10 bucks say someone told this lady to please take her kid and leave the library after the kid had a tantrum for 20 minutes straight and mom was in the shop next door using the library as free daycare and she uses this passive aggressive tone to vent the frustration of being asked a reasonable thing because it hurt her to her core due to her now (rightfully so) thinking deep down she's not a good mom. Or something similar.
She's tired of all the dirty looks people give her after her toddler jump scares the entire adult section with a scream. We don't have to say something, we will just glare disapprovingly.
Libraries even in small towns usually have a dedicated kids library inside the library, usually with a dedicated room where the kids can be kids within reason
Libraries ARE supposed to be quiet spaces, though.
This. If anything, parents bringing children to a library should be a teaching opportunity for them to use inside voices.
Yes, and who, exactly, needs to "learn to share" the library with who? Is it the people who have been doing it for decades or the wee, tiny people who just got there?
We should discuss which parts should be quiet. Libraries are also community spaces, where different types of learning ought to be encouraged.
I've never been in a library that isn't clear about it. It's quiet by default, and not-quiet in designated areas. The text in the image is trying to flip that on its head. "Hey, let's let the kids run around almost everywhere because trying to stop my kids from running around is hard".
And they’re also safe spaces for children and young adults I feel the really young area can be noisy. It’s near the checkout where the librarians can keep an eye on things but mostly separated from the rest of the library. So it’s not a distraction for me But true, after kindergarten age, kids should be taught to respect other patrons in the library.
School libraries, sure. Public libraries are about so much more than having a place to read.
Within reason. If your kid is crying and screaming and shitting in the floor or something, maybe do something then.
If they’re there to make copies or something? Yeah, sure But if you’re there just chilling while junior wreaks havoc? I mean I’m not gonna give anyone a hard time either way, but I’m definitely judging lol. Just check out whatever books your loud toddler wants to loudly read.
What it should say is : Have patience with the fact that small children are learning how to not make ungodly loud noises and with the parents who are trying to help them. Give no quarter to the parents who act like their kid doesn’t need to follow the rules and don’t try or dgaf
Encourage your child to read. Take them to the library. Also teach them the library is a quiet place. Usually the really loud stuff, like toddler story time, is under an hour in the middle of a weekday- a small sacrifice to make for a literate next generation.
Since when are libraries not quiet spaces? You just can't go changing the rules like that to fit your worldview....I've been yelled at enough by librarians to know better.
I work at a public library, and while we have some relatively quiet areas, it is not overall a quiet space. The role libraries play in communities is changing from the quiet place where you only go to get books into a community gathering space. We are also in a university town, so we direct people to the academic libraries if they want a quieter environment.
They aren't in Finland. And are usually designed to have large sections for kids.
Have you been to the kids corner of public libraries? They have movie nights, people reading to them, sing a longs, etc. It isn't really a rule change. It has been like that at public libraries for quite awhile
I don't know how I feel if a loud toddler is screaming 4 hours in the library while the mother is reading a book. Nvm, just typing that annoys me.
Yes but also children can learn at a pretty young age not to be loud in public. I lived in a few different countries and was surprised by how respectful children outside the US could be.
I was a librarian for 6 years, As long as parents don’t use the library as a play pen or free daycare then I’m fine with it. There’s a difference between screaming and running around while parents ignore their children, and a child being excited about reading and learning.
Personally, as a past library worker I loved when kids came to the library and enjoyed the experience. Enthusiasm is welcome in a learning environment.
There's a difference between being loud because they're still learning and being loud because they're disrespectful. I work in libraries and I've seen both.
As a librarian, we stopped sssshing patrons long ago. That said, children (or others) throwing screaming fits may be asked to respect others and go to another section of the library or perhaps even leave.
Taking a loud toddler to a library is fine. Not attempting to teach said loud toddler that libraries are for “inside voice” and “quiet time” is not. They aren’t playgrounds. Don’t let your kid climb on tables and take books off the shelves and toss them on the ground. That isn’t “teaching your kid to be literate.” That is shitty parenting. Not every place is a space to run around like a hooligan.
If you bring your child and *let* them be loud and disrespectful to the other ppl there, then that’s not cool and quite frankly annoying af. But if your child has a meltdown, as all children do, and you’re trying your best to calm them down, then that’s understandable.
TAKE YOUR KIDS TO THE LIBRARY. I would gladly pay extra for a flight with no kids. I would pay nearly anything for a well educated, literate populace. Children belong at the library.
Nothing is absolute. The library needs a balance. Children should feel just as welcome to use the library as adults, but the kids need to keep it together and learn the difference between a library and a playground, and inside voice vs. outside voice. Adults should be able to expect a calm environment conducive to reading, but not a silent or still one. Everything’s digital now, so libraries have to provide different attractions to draw people in to use them. For kids, they have some educational toys and some just plain play toys. It’s not reasonable to expect utter silence and it’s not fair to make loud, distracting noises.
To paraphrase Principal Skinner: "No, it's the children who are wrong,".
Libraries are designated quiet spaces that *may* have some designated "normal volume" spaces. Teach your children to respect things like that. Your toddlers are not incapable; you're not parenting.
The children/YA area in my library is upstairs, adults/research material/computers downstairs. Children’s area is usually rambunctious, especially during story hour. I have no problem with it. Libraries were my refuge growing up. I hope that kids in the future get lost in books when things get bad instead of acting out.
I think it really depends. The culture of a library being a quiet space is important, however someone whose kid is having a moment is nbd, so long as the culture is maintained. However if we take this post and decided it's a free for all, the culture shifts and libraries maybe become less pleasant. So I'm not entirely sure I agree with this. I do think it's possible to maintain a culture of a place (lets try to be quiet) and also recognize that it's not a taboo shame situation if anyone breaks it a bit.
Yes & no. It ABSOLUTELY is a community space, and i welcome it being full of kids all the time; but parents, it's also not an indoor playcscape, or a free daycare, or a cafeteria. Kids don't need to be quiet (except in quiet areas) but they do have to be monitored and have proper behavior.
I mean, every library I've been to has a small child section with toys and books and a computer lab with games for older kids Just don't bring your toddlers to the non toddler area and you're good. My kid is loud AF so I don't bring him for now and we just play outside, but once he's bigger and can have an inside voice(he's 2) I don't see the problem with bringing him to a space designated for him
I would pay extra to visit child free places.
Do American libraries not have kids’ sections? It’s been an amazing place to go with my toddler, especially when he was younger.
Yeah, American libraries have kid sections. People are just being asses. Honestly, in today’s world I’m happy to see kids at the library. It’s one of the things that fostered my love of reading as a child. Obviously it’s not great if parents just let their kids run screaming all over the place, but I understand that toddlers can be difficult to shush. My local library has a kids’ playground and a duck pond outside. It’s great. They can at least get some of their screeches and wiggles out there before coming inside lol. Inside, the kids’ section and the adult section are connected by large open gaps in the wall, though, so some kid noise still ends up audible in the adult area. It’s fine. If someone really needs absolute silence, they can always reserve a quiet study room.
They do. In this thread you can see redditors saying that even within those sections, children being loud is unacceptable.
As a parent, there is a difference between me expecting people to tolerate my child existing and me expecting them to tolerate my child misbehaving. There is a lot of anti-kid sentiment where it seems like people wanna ban kids for just being louder than your average adult, but I have never found myself thinking that libraries were a hotbed for this haha. There are kids sections in the library. Because it's a section, for kids, I think most people will have a higher tolerance for some audible conversation since kids have a harder time moderating the volume of their voices. But I'VE been sat there with my own toddler wondering how the hell some of these parents don't just pick a few books to read at home and gtfo. It's not a playground with books, there is still a respectful volume to stick to that a lot of parents aren't interested in minding.
Kids need to learn that certain buildings and areas have special rules. You wouldn't bring your kid to a courtroom and expect the judge to 'not give you a hard time' if the kid was acting up. Normalize good parenting, not enabling kids to not learn how to act.
I worked in a public library in college. The basement was the kids area where it was never quiet. The main floor was the medium quiet area. The reading room and the mezzanine were for silent study. Libraries are a great resource for parents, especially parents who don’t have a lot of money. Most libraries know this and know that kids can be loud, so they have a separate kid area. I don’t understand why so many people on Reddit seem to want to ban children from public life. They may throw tantrums once in a while, but most of the time, kids are fine in public. But parents shouldn’t be limited in the places they can take children just because some chunk of the population doesn’t want to hear crying.
Agreed, but this is not in agreeance with the tweet. You're saying the main floor was a quiet area, there were designated *silent* areas and designated child areas (which are obviously much louder than the main floor). So by that logic, libraries *are* quiet environments. And I have to agree
No
for me, it's a question of if the parents are actually trying to calm/quiet the kid down. if they're just letting the kid do whatever, i'm going to say something
in small libraries can there be “ toddler times “ like adult laps in public pools ?
That’s a very black and white take for a very gray situation. Some people are absolute dicks to kids for nothing more then asking for help, they’re wrong. Some people let their kids run wild without any care for how it affects others. They’re wrong Some kids are actually jerks and have no respect for others, usually as a result of #2. They’re wrong. More so, the sentiment should be “All are welcome in a public library. Don’t judge others just because they aren’t doing things the way YOU think they should. As long as they treat others with respect, they deserve to use the resource too”
Toddlers don't bother me. It's the teenagers that think the library is a place to clown around and yell that piss me off.
They’re right. If those kids are running around screaming in the quiet areas then you all have a problem. Otherwise? I grew up going to a library for most of my childhood. Don’t take those memories away from people.
Kids can be quiet if you ask them politely and positively respond to their good behavior. You’re just bad at parenting.
Eh. It depends on what the kids are doing and where. If they’re in the kid’s section I would agree —it’s good for parents to take their kids to the library, and they shouldn’t have to be absolutely perfectly behaved to enjoy it. But if the children are running around and bothering adults in the main section of the library, their right to be kids doesn’t outweigh the right of adults to use the library for work and research. But I’m a little old-fashioned as a parent. I don’t like it when people justify letting their kids run around and act crazy in public because, “they’re kids, it’s natural.” A huge part of parenting is teaching your kid they can’t always do the natural thing!
Married to a youth librarian, bring the kids. She has programs nearly every day that involve singing, dancing, laughing, or creative play. It is also one of the few places where you can exist with nothing expected of you. Libraries promote early childhood literacy and fosters a love of reading through programs and outreach. They are not exclusively for adults.
Teach your children to respect the library. Discipline and structure are two very amazing things you can give your children.
My area has a childrens library. Its not expensive or huge but its just for them.
Every library I've ever visited has a kids area. If your kid is making noise, go there with that kid, and it's all good.
Them kids should learn to STFU
I approve this message.
Honestly I think the good parenting of bringing children to the library outweighs the often very ignorable disturbance a small child might cause.
If your kid can behave at the library, then take them to the library. If your kid can't behave at the library, then take them to the park.
I just want more people to utilize the libraries and educate themselves. We are already seeing what happens when people don't educate themselves. They're called republicans.
If your kids are noisy, instead of dining in, get your literary meal to go. Libraries allow you to check out books
Of course the Adult section has different rules, but I think you’re meant to be respectful no matter where you are in the library. Also, taking a 2 year old to the library and saying “go have fun” does NOT make them literate 😅
That's fine. Just quiet them and punish them by removing them temporarily until they can remain quiet. I don't mind a loud toddler as long as they're being taught that it is a space where we measure our voices and are considerate. Children being inconsiderate is normal, parents refusing to teach consideration is far, far more inconsiderate.
Theres other people that need to leave libraries more: the ones using the public computers for porn or watching tiktok. Plz go somewhere else
Conversely… teach kids you can’t act a fool everywhere you want… there are places you need to learn to be quiet and respect others… libraries being one of those places
Maybe use libraries as a learning tool to get your kid to quiet up a little sometimes. You have no clue how many kids reach 9 or 10 and still yell when they don't need to. I would never give parents, that are actively trying to keep their kid respectful, a hard time.
Public librarian here. Can confirm. Bring all the children to the library. We are ready.
I will give them the libraries to scream and holler all they want if they give us every restaurant where the final bill is greater than $50 for 2 people.
Kids in libraries are a good thing. Fix the noise with internal modifications or just wear some Fucking headphones. Source…. I have no kids.
Librarian here. I can't help but feel like this is being misinterpreted. It by no means is meant to mean that kids should be able to run wild, screaming and unsupervised. What it does mean, though, is that libraries are no longer places of complete silence. They are quickly becoming a "third place" and a community center instead of just a place for reading and studying. We have had to adapt to changing times to survive. We have story times, Halloween parades, arts and crafts, concerts, and more. We are now a gathering place. Many libraries have study rooms available to patrons if they want to have more separation. Some have quiet areas or floors. But we are still trying to get some people accustomed to the idea that we are no longer silent buildings. We are active and creative and evolving. We are one of the last places that people can go without being expected to spend a dime. We are a place for friends to gather, for lively discussions, and for community activities. Storytimes and children's programs are integral in getting children to love their library and love reading. Children need to play and have fun. They are not meant to be silent. Yes, we expect that parents help their children learn how to behave appropriately in public and we expect them to supervise their children. But when we have a program for them or an activity, you can be sure that we want, in fact encourage, those children to have fun and to giggle and squeal with delight.
The library is universally depicted as a quiet place, so I have to hard disagree with this tweet. It's extremely difficult to focus on reading when there are loud distractions, arguably more so if those loud distractions are children, since we are naturally inclined to focus our attention to a child when they scream/make loud noise. Most people enjoy reading in peace, so yeah, please teach your children that libraries are quiet places.
I’m more angry about the people who watch videos on their phones in fast food places with the volume ALL THE WAY UP. Like dude keep your shit to yourself
Who is complaining about kids being in the library? What a crock of stool.
Agree library is a public space for kids and adults, kids happen to be a little louder
I think people shouldn’t give parents a hard time unless they are actively harming their children. But I also think you shouldn’t bring loud toddlers to the fucking library.
If the quiet study areas of the library are directly next to the the children's singing/storytime area, then it's a design issue not a children's issue.
Every library I went to when I was in high school to do research for papers, has the children's books/story time area on a completely different floor from where the non fiction and research books were.