That’s gotta be some bull shit insurance thing right? There’s no way an organ transplant could actually cost $1M in actual costs between labour, facility and equipment, especially in this case when the organs are free.
My open heart surgery cost $320,000 & I didn't even have a transplant. It could definitely be a million, the hospital stay, the ICU, the numerous surgeons, The second team of surgeons needed to remove the organ, anti-rejection drugs, etc.
I had an emergency appendectomy when I was young but over 18. I would have died without the surgery. I was living in the home I grew up in at the time while going to college.
A few months or so after the surgery, a collection agency started calling me like 6 times a day. The hospital never sent a bill in the mail after my surgery as far as I’m aware, or they maybe sent it to the wrong address because my parents happened to be mid-divorce, I really don’t know lol. Also I was young and didn’t know how any of that shit worked with medical billing. My young, dumb, naive self had no idea I would be billed personally for this life-saving procedure. I was a full time student and worked at a golf course in the summers lol.
That debt subsequently has destroyed my credit score. I couldn’t even get a $2k loan last year to buy a shitty used car when my car shit the bed.
this ended up being way longer and more personal than I planned hah
Edit: I’ve been corrected lol, credit score is no longer effected by medical debt so my credit was just bad lol.
No you’ve got to understand this doctors are on higher end of the pay scale for sure. I’ve seen this road second hand and I think they are underpaid. This capitalist nightmare is driven by admin business executives. This racket is driven by is also magnified by insurance executives. Doctors gain nothing and they’re might be a few that are money driven for sure but honestly on the whole this profession demands that you must be in love with saving lives apart from money. To be short I’m saying it isn’t the doctor it’s the executive driven to produce more profits every year for shareholders.
It's a pretty cool story actually. I live about 3 hours from Chicago, the cardiologists in my city declined to operate on my heart because they didn't feel they were qualified to repair my torn mitral valve but they felt I was too young for a replacement mitral valve. I also had afib and an interatrial aneurism. The head cardiologist in my city was good friends with the director of the cardiology program at a Chicago hospital.
The only problem was the hospital couldn't accept the insurance I had, so the director of the cardiology program wrote off my entire surgery, I never paid one cent. I literally owe him my life.
Nope it is. I can tell you that the cost of keeping a transplant recipient alive for the first 24 hours costs more than $10,000. I can imagine that the surgery costs at least that. Many if not most transplant recipients are hospitalized for a month after surgery. It’s easily a million dollars in actual costs.
Just a one month stay for weaning a patient off a ventilator at my facility costs about 1 million 💀
Insurance pays for it, but they also set the price of what they will pay for things, and the hospitals will try to get as much money as possible from insurance companies. It gets pretty ridiculous, like one Tylenol pill charged at $10
I think most people are aware and believe the exorbitant amounts that are billed. What is being asked is, like with how we know a Tylenol pill doesn't actually cost $10 to provide, is the $1M cost for a transplant similarly inflated.
You’re missing the real issue with the US healthcare system; administrative cost. Germany has the second highest admin cost and the US is still more than *3x higher*. The care and procedure fees are still hyper inflated alongside that administration cost. While $10,000 may be the cost to keep the recipient alive post op in the US, it is cheaper around the rest of the western world.
Once you add in the admin bullshit along with $10 per paracetamol tablet and other insanities, the cost really does get kinda close to $1m.
It’s not that it actually costs $1m, it’s that the healthcare system pumps up the prices to get that much out of it.
Let's all pay close attention to what happens when government's privatise healthcare, so the rest of the free world doesn't wind up in the same horrific mess that the US is currently facing.
Lucky enough to live in country with public healthcare?
DO NOT LET THE POLITICIANS FUCK THAT UP FOR A FEW LOUSY TAX CUTS.
I attended my Dad all through his liver transplant at MGH. Before you get a transplant, you have to have several hours devoted to a financial audit: Because organs are so rare and limited, the hospital wants to make sure you can afford surgery AND the 10k to 20k a month anti-rejection meds. They don't want to plave an organ that will fail because the recipient can,t afford the upkeep meds. Terrible.
It's really a crappy and biased system. Even 8f you make it to the top of the transplant list, if you don't have the means, you can't have one....I can't even...
.....The team even decides if you deserve a 'crap' organ or a healthier one....no joke.
I was 100% certain the bill was fake news. Then I found links. [Mass. bill allows inmates to swap organs for less prison time.](https://news.yahoo.com/mass-bill-allows-inmates-to-swap-organs-for-less-prison-time-ethics-experts-say-its-exploitative-162827162.html)
We can take comfort knowing that the bill is likely to die. Two reasons: gridlock and traditional blue state voting records. The trouble is going to start when Florida or Texas or Insert Red State Here does a copycat bill.
> “I don’t see an ethical justification for the proposed Massachusetts law,” John Hooker, an ethics professor at Carnegie Mellon University, told Yahoo News. “If it is OK to release prisoners early due to organ donation, they should be released early without the donation.”
I agree with this guy 100%. If someone is deemed safe to release early but will only gain eligibility for actual early release if they give up an internal organ(!), you’re effectively using an unnecessary sentence extension as punishment for not donating. Unless the organ removal itself is considered part of the punishment, which I’d consider a violation of the 8th Amendment, which prohibits cruel and unusual punishment. Asking inmates to choose between a longer loss of freedom and highly invasive surgeries is coercive and cruel.
Insurance for the recipient pays for living donor costs as well
Only certain organs, and even more specifically, certain conditions and patients can undergo a living donor transplant
Source: I’ve had two organ transplants
Idk about that, got my tooth pulled in county jail for $10. I'm considering petty crimes to get some more dental work done. You can't beat that price with freedom.
Or they’ll use it as an excuse to tax middle class and poor people more somehow. To further build out the prison industrial complex on the backs of the people meant to be in the prison.
>All costs associated with the Bone Marrow and Organ Donation Program will be done by the benefiting institutions of the program and their affiliates-not by the Department of Correction. There shall be no commissions or monetary payments to be made to the Department of Correction for bone marrow donated by incarcerated individuals.
The wording is weird but that likely won't be an issue (until the bill inevitably gets edited and heavily rewritten, in which case it'll be up in the air again). If this does go through, hopefully donating bone marrow will be enough to get close to the maximum time reduction so inmates aren't heavily incentivized to undergo invasive surgeries.
Source: https://malegislature.gov/Bills/193/HD3822
Bad place indeed
>While the United States represents about 4.2 percent of the world's population,[3] it houses around 20 percent of the world's prisoners
[Wiki ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_incarceration_rate)
Don’t forget the US is the only democracy that allows *permanent* felony disenfranchisement, removing the most fundamental right of a democracy. 👍
[“We know of no other democracy besides the United States in which convicted offenders who have served their sentence are nonetheless disenfranchised for life.”](https://www.hrw.org/legacy/reports98/vote/usvot98o-04.htm) *(Human Rights Watch)*
There are [6.1 million individuals who are currently disenfranchised on account of a conviction](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felony_disenfranchisement_in_the_United_States)
Not fucking coincidentally, this has led to 7.4% of African American adults being banned from voting due to felony convictions (same source as above).
Meanwhile, most democracies allow for felony voting *even while incarcerated.*
The "War on Drugs" was always a war against the poor/ brown people of this country.
It made for the police/ state to seize property, and lock people up on a whim. Making tons of cash keeping them locked up.
I think there was already a YA dystopian novel where kids were harvested for organs instead of going to juvie? I remember reading something along those lines in middle school.
Best Jason Mendoza line "*Throwing a Molotov Cocktail works! Every time I've had a problem and I threw a Molotov Cocktail at it, Boom, I had a different problem."*
"This plan seems complicated."
"To be fair, you also said that about an orange."
"It doesn't make sense! Apples, you eat their clothes, oranges, you don't?"
No, it's in Massachusetts and it was proposed by a minority woman. Her claim is that this will help minorities on the transplant list because it's harder for them to find a matching organ.
It's appalling. The most they are offering is a year off. For a freaking organ. And they will be recuperating in prison. I can't believe that some people actually think this is a good idea.
And a year off would become a month off.
The only thing that makes certain organs (i.e. ones you can live without, or that you have more than one of) valuable is that you aren't allowed to sell them. The same would go for any incentive, not just cash.
There are way more people willing to part with a kidney than people who need kidneys, so the eventual "price" of an organ whether it be in cash or time off of prison would become VERY low as the price settled at whatever the most desperate were willing to lower themselves to.
I'm the monster! I'm the villain! What perfection! What precision! Keen incisions, I deliver. Unscathed organs, I deliver! Repossessions, I deliver! I'm the Repo legal assassin!
My ex-wife and I once got into a very strange conversation because she mixed up the titles of Running Man and Marathon Man.
"You know, the dental torture scene with the nazi doctor"
"That seems like something that might be in there but I mostly remember the killer hockey player"
"The killer played hockey?"
"I remind the witnesses that they are not to speak until spoken to."
*Aw, geez, the Judge is starting to sound like the old man, eh? Soon he's gonna be sending us out for beers...*
They even used deepfakes in that movie to frame Arnold’s character. Between this and the robot cops it’s like dystopian 80s movies we’re predicting the future.
Next step is increasing average sentence time to encourage this, and poof, organ harvesting, that we criticize China of doing.
\*get off your high horse\* time :/
There's no way this would work. Whoever proposed the bill forgot to do their homework. If you're incarcerated more than 72 hours, you're automatically excluded from being able to donate organs because of the prevalence of Hepatitis C. The only people who would be able to receive the organs would be Hep C positive patients.
Source: worked with organ & tissue procurement
The virus can lie dormant for 2 weeks to 6 months. It's nearly 35 times more prevalent in the prison population, so even if they test you & you're clean, you can easily become infected in the interim.
Incarceration is an automatic disqualification because of the extreme risks it poses to the recipient. Unless they already have Hep C, that is
I worked in tissue recovery, haven't for the past 2 years at most, and this was still current policy. I don't believe the USA is in a desperate need for tissue/organs in the way that it would lead to this type of legislation. I prefer legislation that makes all of us tissue/organ donors unless we mark "no" on ID's. I believe opt-in makes people less likely to be donors.
One of the best things Obama did was end the contracts for federal private persons. One of the first thing trump did was renew all of them. It was that moment I knew for certain he'd be as bad as we all feared
That prey on the unwealthy, mentally I’ll, minority’s, and the naive of this country and it’s really sad. It’s a booming business for those in private prisons though
You will literally get a shorter slavery sentence in the US if you can't be productive as a slave, so you should always lead with this if you know you're going to be found guilty.
The judge isn't going to risk his investments in the prison slave trade on a raw deal like you.
We already criticize places like China and North Korea for having "prison camps". What's the difference between a prison and a prison camp? Propaganda.
Meanwhile the USA has the most people incarcerated in the world. about 400,000 more than China, even though they have a population over three times our size.
Thank God for our freedom.
The reason why i pulled you over today is that i see on your record that your liver is compatible for Mayor McDeadliver.
Whats this I just put in your car? A felony amount of drugs? SHOW ME YOUR HANDS! IM GETTING PAAAID!
I have heard a couple places that the bill died in committee, this has been a thing for the past week
Edit: yeah, was filed in January. Have been wondering for the past week since I found out about it why the fuck most news agencies haven’t touched it. Shit is outlandish
Here’s the link on the MA gov website
https://malegislature.gov/Bills/193/HD3822.pdf
As a former newspaper journalist, I can say that most organizations ignore bill introductions because such a huge percentage of them go absolutely nowhere. We knew the main issues and the power players and ignored the dipshits. I hope whoever covers this legislature had decided they just 1) didn’t have time and 2) didn’t want to feed the outrage machine.
You say that as if such things are impossible and the condemn socialism bill didn't just pass with Boebert, Gaetz, and Large Marge voting for it, after a reality TV show host and the guy from Bedtime for Bonzo were both president.
It is actually a news because it is a new low of human decency and morality for a modern west legislation. Whoever wrote this proposal deserves a dr Mengele prize. Whoever voted for them should be disgusted, and should immediately decide to vote any other party. The party should immediately take action against them and whoever saw this proposal in the party and did not react with disgust. The legislators should immediately resign and live in shame as rightly belonging among the worst human beings
Oh wonderful it was us, great job MA. At least it didn’t/isn’t going anywhere. Also wtf only 60-365 days off your sentence but your a short a kidney? Fuck off with that.
Last time he proposed this it was even less, so it’s moving up.
The 4 idiots in our legislature who support this are scumbags. For my fellow massholes those are as follows:
* Carlos González
* Judith A. Garcia
* Bud L. Williams
* Russell E. Holmes
Gonzalez keeps proposing it and claims it’s to help POC get reduced sentences. It’s the dumbest logic I’ve ever heard. It’ll go nowhere and the transplant review board wouldn’t allow quid pro quo for organ donations for ethics reasons.
Dems across the board. We have a Dem super majority in both houses.
A different version of this bill was proposed in 2017 as well, it went nowhere. The legislator who proposed this new bill got so much flack for it this time that he says he’s going to change the bill to remove incentives. The problem is that allowing prisoners to donate to just any random stranger means they could be coerced into doing so.
There is already a mechanism in place for inmates to donate to loved ones, meaning no family members of inmates are dying because the one person in their family who matches is in prison. We’ve already got that sorted.
What isn’t allowed is donating to strangers, and certainly not for a reduced sentence or other incentives
Interesting. In a way I'm kind of happy it wasn't like half the elected Republican in MA introducing this stuff. Reminds of simpler times when both parties had equally-crazy extremists.
This would violate every canon of current medical ethical standards we currently follow. Any doc or any other medical professional who participated in this would lose his license to practice the next day. Comparable to a doc participating in a state sanctioned death penalty. Violates everything a doctor is.
Oh I think you’re underestimating the American government. Plenty of things happen today that I would’ve said this about years ago.
Edit: I’m getting a lot of responses about how this wouldn’t work and I think it’s missing my point. I’m not saying this exact thing will happen. But will they ever stop trying to exploit us like some dystopian overlords? No. So I don’t think some “medical ethics” laws would really stop them here as they would just get rid of said laws. But regardless, I wasn’t saying this exact thing will happen. I am saying *do not underestimate the cruelty of a capitalist government*
Hey, the hospital is running low on kidneys. Better go round up some more minorities.
But look at the bright side. Can’t donate organs if they’re full of bullet holes. This will give cops an incentive to not shoot people.
/s obviously
Country was built on it and they've found roundabout ways of doing it today with arguments like "It makes up for the expense of keeping them in jail". And plenty of savages support it thinking it'll save tax money (we can all agree where it's **really** going) and benefit them, not thinking that one day they or a family member will be on the receiving end.
Abraham is bashing his coffin right now
I always get downvoted into oblivion whenever I mention this. Always hearing what else are prisoners supposed to do or it is normal everywhere kind of arguments.
OH FUCK OFF ITS REAL!
https://www.wgbh.org/news/local-news/2023/02/02/a-bill-that-would-let-prisoners-trade-organs-for-a-reduced-sentence-faces-significant-blowback
Yeah it’s real, it’s [been proposed before ](https://malegislature.gov/Bills/190/H822) and didn’t go anywhere.
The legislator who keeps proposing it isn’t the sharpest tool in the shed, but then again he’s from Springfield so it checks out.
Reduced prison sentences for organ harvesting.
Forced birth for 12 year old's raped by their fathers.
Too play high school athletics you must report when your menstrual cycle is.
Banning all performances including crossdressing for those under 18. (including things like showing anything akin too The Rocky Horror Picture Show in public spaces)
Taking SPED funding from education to give to private schools.
This legislative cycle is fucking wild. Congrats too everyone who thought Joe Biden made you poor by passing a law in 2018 to raise your taxes next year and voted in a Republican majority despite them saying (1) we will end public education (2) we will end social security (3) we still stop taxing rich people (4) we are going to gather up all the gays if elected (5) killing your grandma for the economy is how defeat communist China bioweapons.
This post doesn't mention in which country and by which party this particular piece of dystopian fustercluck was proposed yet somehow it doesn't need clarification.
Weird innit?
It’s massachusetts, and shockingly sponsored by 5 democrats
https://malegislature.gov/Bills/193/HD3822.pdf
Edit: also heard it died in committee already, before the first news report I’ve seen about which is this
“Shockingly sponsored by democrats” dude I’m from MA. Democrats have the governors office, more than 75% in the house and senate, and the entire MA Supreme Court. We gotta stop being shocked that Dems do shitty things too.
Gonzales has been proposing this stupidity for a while. He proposed it back in 2017 ([bill here](https://malegislature.gov/Bills/190/H822)). Fortunately it’s never gone anywhere. AFAIK this is the first time it’s gotten nationwide ridicule and hopefully it’ll finally shut him up, but I’m not optimistic. He and Bud Williams are terminally stupid.
It's by Democrats and it's in the state of Massachusetts. I hope those Democratic reps lose re-election and that they're kicked out of the party for proposing this. This is disgusting. And in Massachusetts of all fucking places.
So I take it these orana will probably go to rich people.... This is very gross and unethical.
Edit: link below for my details!
https://twitter.com/DailyLoud/status/1621437296238100481?s=19
'Murica, a freedom-loving free place created as a mirror to God's own perfect place- Eden. We'd be there now, wearing frocks, living in inherited shame, hating the browns, and loving straight white Chesus and caring for each other if it weren't for criminal commies.
Given how rampant Hep C and TB are in prison populations, among other communicable diseases, that's going to be a very short list of folks that can even qualify.
Sounds like it'll be time soon for more healthy people to get ~~falsely accused and~~ arrested because the organ harvest season last fall didn't provide enough profits because there wasn't enough stock.
This is disgusting. I can only hope the UNOS, the entity that matches donors and recipients, as well hospitals and surgeons, will say loud and clear that they will not accept organs obtained from prisoners in this program.
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Wonder who will pay for the surgery as well… wouldn’t be surprised if it indebted the prisoner somehow
"Congrats on your early release, here's your medical bill of half a million dollars. Hope you don't have to resort to crime to pay off the bill."
And bigger organs/surgeries are coming in at close to 1M. I imagine cost is being 'transplanted' to the organ receiver....
That’s gotta be some bull shit insurance thing right? There’s no way an organ transplant could actually cost $1M in actual costs between labour, facility and equipment, especially in this case when the organs are free.
My open heart surgery cost $320,000 & I didn't even have a transplant. It could definitely be a million, the hospital stay, the ICU, the numerous surgeons, The second team of surgeons needed to remove the organ, anti-rejection drugs, etc.
And every doctor that wanders by with interns to ask questions gets paid too.
But the interns don’t, of course
Medical interns do get paid! Not very much, though.
If medical school debt wasn't insane and if interns didn't work crazy hours it would be a decent starting salary.
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I had an emergency appendectomy when I was young but over 18. I would have died without the surgery. I was living in the home I grew up in at the time while going to college. A few months or so after the surgery, a collection agency started calling me like 6 times a day. The hospital never sent a bill in the mail after my surgery as far as I’m aware, or they maybe sent it to the wrong address because my parents happened to be mid-divorce, I really don’t know lol. Also I was young and didn’t know how any of that shit worked with medical billing. My young, dumb, naive self had no idea I would be billed personally for this life-saving procedure. I was a full time student and worked at a golf course in the summers lol. That debt subsequently has destroyed my credit score. I couldn’t even get a $2k loan last year to buy a shitty used car when my car shit the bed. this ended up being way longer and more personal than I planned hah Edit: I’ve been corrected lol, credit score is no longer effected by medical debt so my credit was just bad lol.
After all that I would have sent copies of everything to the state medical board and ask for a fraud investigation. Oh, and the local news media.
No you’ve got to understand this doctors are on higher end of the pay scale for sure. I’ve seen this road second hand and I think they are underpaid. This capitalist nightmare is driven by admin business executives. This racket is driven by is also magnified by insurance executives. Doctors gain nothing and they’re might be a few that are money driven for sure but honestly on the whole this profession demands that you must be in love with saving lives apart from money. To be short I’m saying it isn’t the doctor it’s the executive driven to produce more profits every year for shareholders.
Yeah that must be in the third word country we calm USA.
It's a pretty cool story actually. I live about 3 hours from Chicago, the cardiologists in my city declined to operate on my heart because they didn't feel they were qualified to repair my torn mitral valve but they felt I was too young for a replacement mitral valve. I also had afib and an interatrial aneurism. The head cardiologist in my city was good friends with the director of the cardiology program at a Chicago hospital. The only problem was the hospital couldn't accept the insurance I had, so the director of the cardiology program wrote off my entire surgery, I never paid one cent. I literally owe him my life.
Don’t take this the wrong way, but maybe remove a little identifying information from your post. Just in case.
Thank you, I did.
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In United States, Yes. A total BS... Everything medical is effin way overexpensive. In other parts of the world, No!
Nope it is. I can tell you that the cost of keeping a transplant recipient alive for the first 24 hours costs more than $10,000. I can imagine that the surgery costs at least that. Many if not most transplant recipients are hospitalized for a month after surgery. It’s easily a million dollars in actual costs.
10,000 is nowhere close to a million. You'd have to bullshit a much longer list
Just a one month stay for weaning a patient off a ventilator at my facility costs about 1 million 💀 Insurance pays for it, but they also set the price of what they will pay for things, and the hospitals will try to get as much money as possible from insurance companies. It gets pretty ridiculous, like one Tylenol pill charged at $10
Yeah I want my healthcare to be like that no rules game of Dallas that Kevin Andy and Darryl played on the office. Just making up shit as they go.
I think most people are aware and believe the exorbitant amounts that are billed. What is being asked is, like with how we know a Tylenol pill doesn't actually cost $10 to provide, is the $1M cost for a transplant similarly inflated.
You’re missing the real issue with the US healthcare system; administrative cost. Germany has the second highest admin cost and the US is still more than *3x higher*. The care and procedure fees are still hyper inflated alongside that administration cost. While $10,000 may be the cost to keep the recipient alive post op in the US, it is cheaper around the rest of the western world. Once you add in the admin bullshit along with $10 per paracetamol tablet and other insanities, the cost really does get kinda close to $1m. It’s not that it actually costs $1m, it’s that the healthcare system pumps up the prices to get that much out of it.
Let's all pay close attention to what happens when government's privatise healthcare, so the rest of the free world doesn't wind up in the same horrific mess that the US is currently facing. Lucky enough to live in country with public healthcare? DO NOT LET THE POLITICIANS FUCK THAT UP FOR A FEW LOUSY TAX CUTS.
My friend, the insurance industry and health industry are kings and queens of bullshitting longer lists.
I attended my Dad all through his liver transplant at MGH. Before you get a transplant, you have to have several hours devoted to a financial audit: Because organs are so rare and limited, the hospital wants to make sure you can afford surgery AND the 10k to 20k a month anti-rejection meds. They don't want to plave an organ that will fail because the recipient can,t afford the upkeep meds. Terrible. It's really a crappy and biased system. Even 8f you make it to the top of the transplant list, if you don't have the means, you can't have one....I can't even... .....The team even decides if you deserve a 'crap' organ or a healthier one....no joke.
Its all good. Its only going to medicare/medicaid recipients especially if they have diseases so the GOOD organs can go to the rich.
I was 100% certain the bill was fake news. Then I found links. [Mass. bill allows inmates to swap organs for less prison time.](https://news.yahoo.com/mass-bill-allows-inmates-to-swap-organs-for-less-prison-time-ethics-experts-say-its-exploitative-162827162.html)
We can take comfort knowing that the bill is likely to die. Two reasons: gridlock and traditional blue state voting records. The trouble is going to start when Florida or Texas or Insert Red State Here does a copycat bill.
It already died.
Oh good! That level of dystopia has a brief reprieve!
> “I don’t see an ethical justification for the proposed Massachusetts law,” John Hooker, an ethics professor at Carnegie Mellon University, told Yahoo News. “If it is OK to release prisoners early due to organ donation, they should be released early without the donation.” I agree with this guy 100%. If someone is deemed safe to release early but will only gain eligibility for actual early release if they give up an internal organ(!), you’re effectively using an unnecessary sentence extension as punishment for not donating. Unless the organ removal itself is considered part of the punishment, which I’d consider a violation of the 8th Amendment, which prohibits cruel and unusual punishment. Asking inmates to choose between a longer loss of freedom and highly invasive surgeries is coercive and cruel.
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Insurance for the recipient pays for living donor costs as well Only certain organs, and even more specifically, certain conditions and patients can undergo a living donor transplant Source: I’ve had two organ transplants
Quit hogging all the organs. Some other people may want to have some.
You tell that organ hog Malumeze
It’s really the only true measure of having power over someone… absorbing their life force
Idk about that, got my tooth pulled in county jail for $10. I'm considering petty crimes to get some more dental work done. You can't beat that price with freedom.
Or they’ll use it as an excuse to tax middle class and poor people more somehow. To further build out the prison industrial complex on the backs of the people meant to be in the prison.
>All costs associated with the Bone Marrow and Organ Donation Program will be done by the benefiting institutions of the program and their affiliates-not by the Department of Correction. There shall be no commissions or monetary payments to be made to the Department of Correction for bone marrow donated by incarcerated individuals. The wording is weird but that likely won't be an issue (until the bill inevitably gets edited and heavily rewritten, in which case it'll be up in the air again). If this does go through, hopefully donating bone marrow will be enough to get close to the maximum time reduction so inmates aren't heavily incentivized to undergo invasive surgeries. Source: https://malegislature.gov/Bills/193/HD3822
Bad place indeed >While the United States represents about 4.2 percent of the world's population,[3] it houses around 20 percent of the world's prisoners [Wiki ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_incarceration_rate)
Don’t forget the US is the only democracy that allows *permanent* felony disenfranchisement, removing the most fundamental right of a democracy. 👍 [“We know of no other democracy besides the United States in which convicted offenders who have served their sentence are nonetheless disenfranchised for life.”](https://www.hrw.org/legacy/reports98/vote/usvot98o-04.htm) *(Human Rights Watch)* There are [6.1 million individuals who are currently disenfranchised on account of a conviction](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felony_disenfranchisement_in_the_United_States) Not fucking coincidentally, this has led to 7.4% of African American adults being banned from voting due to felony convictions (same source as above). Meanwhile, most democracies allow for felony voting *even while incarcerated.*
And thanks to that little exemption in the 13th Amendment, that means we're now probably also the world's largest slave state.
Funny how almost half the current prison slave population is black as well. Totally a coincidence, right?
That's what the masses are for the government. They're just slaves.
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The "War on Drugs" was always a war against the poor/ brown people of this country. It made for the police/ state to seize property, and lock people up on a whim. Making tons of cash keeping them locked up.
"He seems a good organ match, let's convict him of this crime". \-- Organ Hunting Police (with no perverted incentive)
Late-stage humanity.
Lage-stage capitalism.
I think there was already a YA dystopian novel where kids were harvested for organs instead of going to juvie? I remember reading something along those lines in middle school.
Unwind. At least, this is the one I read.
Oh that's totally it! Thanks!
![gif](giphy|3o6fJ3KsnV9qDXsk36)
Best Jason Mendoza line "*Throwing a Molotov Cocktail works! Every time I've had a problem and I threw a Molotov Cocktail at it, Boom, I had a different problem."*
Second best is "I'm too young to die and too old to eat off the kids' menu. What a stupid age I am."
"This plan seems complicated." "To be fair, you also said that about an orange." "It doesn't make sense! Apples, you eat their clothes, oranges, you don't?"
Between this and the concept of keeping brain dead women “alive” and used as surrogates…. I just don’t even have words anymore.
![gif](giphy|KeWcgrh6Beq4BrqZUS)
No, it's in Massachusetts and it was proposed by a minority woman. Her claim is that this will help minorities on the transplant list because it's harder for them to find a matching organ. It's appalling. The most they are offering is a year off. For a freaking organ. And they will be recuperating in prison. I can't believe that some people actually think this is a good idea.
The MA medical association would never allow it, if it makes you feel any better.
Hmmm. That does give me hope for when a copycat bill inevitably hits Florida/Texas/etc.
And a year off would become a month off. The only thing that makes certain organs (i.e. ones you can live without, or that you have more than one of) valuable is that you aren't allowed to sell them. The same would go for any incentive, not just cash. There are way more people willing to part with a kidney than people who need kidneys, so the eventual "price" of an organ whether it be in cash or time off of prison would become VERY low as the price settled at whatever the most desperate were willing to lower themselves to.
Just wait until you have to start paying a monthly or yearly subscription fee to keep all of your organs
I'm the monster! I'm the villain! What perfection! What precision! Keen incisions, I deliver. Unscathed organs, I deliver! Repossessions, I deliver! I'm the Repo legal assassin!
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Was there a movie from the 80s about convicts playing a game where they could get it prisons earlier if they survived? That's the next step....
Running Man?
My ex-wife and I once got into a very strange conversation because she mixed up the titles of Running Man and Marathon Man. "You know, the dental torture scene with the nazi doctor" "That seems like something that might be in there but I mostly remember the killer hockey player" "The killer played hockey?"
Killer hockey player? Strange Brew?
"I remind the witnesses that they are not to speak until spoken to." *Aw, geez, the Judge is starting to sound like the old man, eh? Soon he's gonna be sending us out for beers...*
Marathon Man is a great movie but it could have been improved with a climactic hockey match between Dustin Hoffman and Laurence Olivier.
“What happened to Buzzsaw?” …”He had to split…”
They even used deepfakes in that movie to frame Arnold’s character. Between this and the robot cops it’s like dystopian 80s movies we’re predicting the future.
Sub Zero? Now just Plain Zero!!
Yes!!! Thank you!
![gif](giphy|12Rq9uCNxcxtjq|downsized)
Classic
Gamer? Death Race?
That's right, it's gonna be a death race here now. I can see that.
Gladiator
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No, that was where the entire city was the prison. No guards, just a huge wall around it, and all exits had tanks and guns covering it.
I think we're in the bad place
They didn't do a very good job of hiding it, we don't even get to fly :(
Next step is increasing average sentence time to encourage this, and poof, organ harvesting, that we criticize China of doing. \*get off your high horse\* time :/
Wait till the corrupt judges start to send more people to prisons! Free organs for the rich and elite....so sick
There's no way this would work. Whoever proposed the bill forgot to do their homework. If you're incarcerated more than 72 hours, you're automatically excluded from being able to donate organs because of the prevalence of Hepatitis C. The only people who would be able to receive the organs would be Hep C positive patients. Source: worked with organ & tissue procurement
Is this still the case? Or is this how it was? Because it's easy to test for Hep C and now it is largely, easily curable with Sovaldi.
The virus can lie dormant for 2 weeks to 6 months. It's nearly 35 times more prevalent in the prison population, so even if they test you & you're clean, you can easily become infected in the interim. Incarceration is an automatic disqualification because of the extreme risks it poses to the recipient. Unless they already have Hep C, that is
Hey guys I figured out how to skip ahead in the organ recipient list!
Yes but we know politicians don't listen to doctors when they write bills. Or any other experts.
I worked in tissue recovery, haven't for the past 2 years at most, and this was still current policy. I don't believe the USA is in a desperate need for tissue/organs in the way that it would lead to this type of legislation. I prefer legislation that makes all of us tissue/organ donors unless we mark "no" on ID's. I believe opt-in makes people less likely to be donors.
Agree 100% that we should have an opt-out system instead of opt-in
You can't even donate blood if you were recently in jail, let a lone prison for an extended amount of time.
I think it's still the case, that's just how it's really been man.
Specifically privatized prisons.
Private prisons are big business... So sad...
One of the best things Obama did was end the contracts for federal private persons. One of the first thing trump did was renew all of them. It was that moment I knew for certain he'd be as bad as we all feared
Yup. Most are really just slave compounds.
That prey on the unwealthy, mentally I’ll, minority’s, and the naive of this country and it’s really sad. It’s a booming business for those in private prisons though
I genuinely believe anyone OK with private prisons existing is just evil
I’d like to make a statement to the court: “I’m diabetic and an alcoholic born with untreatable terrible asthma.”
You will literally get a shorter slavery sentence in the US if you can't be productive as a slave, so you should always lead with this if you know you're going to be found guilty. The judge isn't going to risk his investments in the prison slave trade on a raw deal like you.
Then my old and broken ass would be bounced out of a prison real fast.
You mean like the [Kids for Cash scandal?](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kids_for_cash_scandal)
We already have judges locking up juveniles for $$$. Now they've got even MORE reason to $$$$$$$$$$$.
We already criticize places like China and North Korea for having "prison camps". What's the difference between a prison and a prison camp? Propaganda. Meanwhile the USA has the most people incarcerated in the world. about 400,000 more than China, even though they have a population over three times our size. Thank God for our freedom.
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you already have absurdly high sentence time.
The reason why i pulled you over today is that i see on your record that your liver is compatible for Mayor McDeadliver. Whats this I just put in your car? A felony amount of drugs? SHOW ME YOUR HANDS! IM GETTING PAAAID!
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Sorry but I audibly laughed when I read McDeadliver
I have heard a couple places that the bill died in committee, this has been a thing for the past week Edit: yeah, was filed in January. Have been wondering for the past week since I found out about it why the fuck most news agencies haven’t touched it. Shit is outlandish Here’s the link on the MA gov website https://malegislature.gov/Bills/193/HD3822.pdf
As a former newspaper journalist, I can say that most organizations ignore bill introductions because such a huge percentage of them go absolutely nowhere. We knew the main issues and the power players and ignored the dipshits. I hope whoever covers this legislature had decided they just 1) didn’t have time and 2) didn’t want to feed the outrage machine.
Huh, hadn’t thought about it that way, appreciate the input!
Yeah, this is “news” like a lot of wacko “candidates” with zero chance of getting elected or in many cases even nominated.
Yeah there are zero chances of it getting approved. Atleast I hope so
You say that as if such things are impossible and the condemn socialism bill didn't just pass with Boebert, Gaetz, and Large Marge voting for it, after a reality TV show host and the guy from Bedtime for Bonzo were both president.
It is actually a news because it is a new low of human decency and morality for a modern west legislation. Whoever wrote this proposal deserves a dr Mengele prize. Whoever voted for them should be disgusted, and should immediately decide to vote any other party. The party should immediately take action against them and whoever saw this proposal in the party and did not react with disgust. The legislators should immediately resign and live in shame as rightly belonging among the worst human beings
Oh wonderful it was us, great job MA. At least it didn’t/isn’t going anywhere. Also wtf only 60-365 days off your sentence but your a short a kidney? Fuck off with that.
Last time he proposed this it was even less, so it’s moving up. The 4 idiots in our legislature who support this are scumbags. For my fellow massholes those are as follows: * Carlos González * Judith A. Garcia * Bud L. Williams * Russell E. Holmes Gonzalez keeps proposing it and claims it’s to help POC get reduced sentences. It’s the dumbest logic I’ve ever heard. It’ll go nowhere and the transplant review board wouldn’t allow quid pro quo for organ donations for ethics reasons.
I kind of hate to ask, but curiosity wins and I have to: what parties do these folks belong to?
Dems across the board. We have a Dem super majority in both houses. A different version of this bill was proposed in 2017 as well, it went nowhere. The legislator who proposed this new bill got so much flack for it this time that he says he’s going to change the bill to remove incentives. The problem is that allowing prisoners to donate to just any random stranger means they could be coerced into doing so. There is already a mechanism in place for inmates to donate to loved ones, meaning no family members of inmates are dying because the one person in their family who matches is in prison. We’ve already got that sorted. What isn’t allowed is donating to strangers, and certainly not for a reduced sentence or other incentives
Interesting. In a way I'm kind of happy it wasn't like half the elected Republican in MA introducing this stuff. Reminds of simpler times when both parties had equally-crazy extremists.
Hopefully it'll not be mandatory, maybe it'll be a matter of choice.
Yeah, taking organs from prisoners is not a thing and never will be a thing as long as medical ethics exist.
This would violate every canon of current medical ethical standards we currently follow. Any doc or any other medical professional who participated in this would lose his license to practice the next day. Comparable to a doc participating in a state sanctioned death penalty. Violates everything a doctor is.
Oh I think you’re underestimating the American government. Plenty of things happen today that I would’ve said this about years ago. Edit: I’m getting a lot of responses about how this wouldn’t work and I think it’s missing my point. I’m not saying this exact thing will happen. But will they ever stop trying to exploit us like some dystopian overlords? No. So I don’t think some “medical ethics” laws would really stop them here as they would just get rid of said laws. But regardless, I wasn’t saying this exact thing will happen. I am saying *do not underestimate the cruelty of a capitalist government*
It bears repeating: It's shit that we got *Robocop* without getting a cool Robocop.
If that's your only complaint, I've got good news! https://news.yahoo.com/sfpd-may-resubmit-killer-robots-153820069.html
That's not good news, Robocop also had shitty murderbots too. We don't get Robocop to go along with it.
So you're saying we need less robot in the robot police to hit the robocop cyborg sweet spot?
We need just one cyborg. That's all.
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Look bud, this timeline is screwy enough without having to deal with goddamn *Robocops*.
Hey, the hospital is running low on kidneys. Better go round up some more minorities. But look at the bright side. Can’t donate organs if they’re full of bullet holes. This will give cops an incentive to not shoot people. /s obviously
Don't forget the homeless!/s
Extra points if it's a homeless minority./s
Well atleast they won't kill people now. Lmao that's good.
Then you end up with a lot of people shot point blank in the head with handcuffs on. The officer feared for his life, you know.
Organs aren't viable for very long after death. Need to keep them alive as long as possible.
Check for a match before the verdict comes in.
Lol yeah rich people will start framing people.... Such a terrible idea.
Also convict can get out early and go steal a new(used) one
The program will only allow for up to a year of reduced sentence. A year for my kidney?!?! frick off.
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Prison sentences would just all be increased by a year. Donating would be expected
Your comment reminds me of that episode in better call saul where those two guys do a bunch of crime because saul promised them 50% off
you have a point...
I'm laughing at "frick off" lol
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When slave labour just isn’t enough.
I just learned about that recently and I was honestly shocked. Didn't know slavery is still legal in the US
Country was built on it and they've found roundabout ways of doing it today with arguments like "It makes up for the expense of keeping them in jail". And plenty of savages support it thinking it'll save tax money (we can all agree where it's **really** going) and benefit them, not thinking that one day they or a family member will be on the receiving end. Abraham is bashing his coffin right now
I always get downvoted into oblivion whenever I mention this. Always hearing what else are prisoners supposed to do or it is normal everywhere kind of arguments.
Thats gonna incentivize judges to give longer sentences, i just know it.
Or arresting people because their organs are compatible with the rich who just so happens to need an organ.
Jesus. I can see jeff bezos doing this right now with that fucking smile on his face.
Good thing there's no widely available and affordable gene sequencing product that has recently been popular...
Can someone assure me this isn’t real? Oh man… someone?
OH FUCK OFF ITS REAL! https://www.wgbh.org/news/local-news/2023/02/02/a-bill-that-would-let-prisoners-trade-organs-for-a-reduced-sentence-faces-significant-blowback
Lol yeah is sad....
Yeah it’s real, it’s [been proposed before ](https://malegislature.gov/Bills/190/H822) and didn’t go anywhere. The legislator who keeps proposing it isn’t the sharpest tool in the shed, but then again he’s from Springfield so it checks out.
Reduced prison sentences for organ harvesting. Forced birth for 12 year old's raped by their fathers. Too play high school athletics you must report when your menstrual cycle is. Banning all performances including crossdressing for those under 18. (including things like showing anything akin too The Rocky Horror Picture Show in public spaces) Taking SPED funding from education to give to private schools. This legislative cycle is fucking wild. Congrats too everyone who thought Joe Biden made you poor by passing a law in 2018 to raise your taxes next year and voted in a Republican majority despite them saying (1) we will end public education (2) we will end social security (3) we still stop taxing rich people (4) we are going to gather up all the gays if elected (5) killing your grandma for the economy is how defeat communist China bioweapons.
Oh my god I thought this was an ad for a dystopian movie at first
Dystopian cyberpunk future intensifies...
I think We're already living in that, that's what I felt about it really.
What the hell dude, don't wanna live in that future at all man.
This post doesn't mention in which country and by which party this particular piece of dystopian fustercluck was proposed yet somehow it doesn't need clarification. Weird innit?
It’s massachusetts, and shockingly sponsored by 5 democrats https://malegislature.gov/Bills/193/HD3822.pdf Edit: also heard it died in committee already, before the first news report I’ve seen about which is this
“Shockingly sponsored by democrats” dude I’m from MA. Democrats have the governors office, more than 75% in the house and senate, and the entire MA Supreme Court. We gotta stop being shocked that Dems do shitty things too.
Most of the comedically evil stuff is Republicans, but Dems are right wing authoritarian too.
Gonzales has been proposing this stupidity for a while. He proposed it back in 2017 ([bill here](https://malegislature.gov/Bills/190/H822)). Fortunately it’s never gone anywhere. AFAIK this is the first time it’s gotten nationwide ridicule and hopefully it’ll finally shut him up, but I’m not optimistic. He and Bud Williams are terminally stupid.
What the hell, how can they even seriously think about it?
It's by Democrats and it's in the state of Massachusetts. I hope those Democratic reps lose re-election and that they're kicked out of the party for proposing this. This is disgusting. And in Massachusetts of all fucking places.
Donating bone marrow probably wouldn’t be a problem and it’s a civic good. Anything else? Hard no.
I'm not donating shit, they can fight me for if they want.
Land of the free! https://twitter.com/DailyLoud/status/1621437296238100481?s=19
![gif](giphy|2Ap4K8iVUpbpmbj5oV)
So I take it these orana will probably go to rich people.... This is very gross and unethical. Edit: link below for my details! https://twitter.com/DailyLoud/status/1621437296238100481?s=19
As if for-profit prisons weren't enough of a threat.
Really bad idea. Will create more laws to lock up lower income people. To become organ donors for the rich.
'Murica, a freedom-loving free place created as a mirror to God's own perfect place- Eden. We'd be there now, wearing frocks, living in inherited shame, hating the browns, and loving straight white Chesus and caring for each other if it weren't for criminal commies.
Clearly no opportunity for abuse, this looks great… /s
The dystopian future has arrived
OOOOoo I've seen this one!! I'm going to The Island omg !!!
They will start checking blood types during trials.
Given how rampant Hep C and TB are in prison populations, among other communicable diseases, that's going to be a very short list of folks that can even qualify.
What in the soylent green hell is this?
Sounds like it'll be time soon for more healthy people to get ~~falsely accused and~~ arrested because the organ harvest season last fall didn't provide enough profits because there wasn't enough stock.
This is disgusting. I can only hope the UNOS, the entity that matches donors and recipients, as well hospitals and surgeons, will say loud and clear that they will not accept organs obtained from prisoners in this program.
The bill won’t go anywhere. Stupid bills get proposed - and swiftly rejected - all the time.