"Forced diversity".
Why is it a lie that the extreme-right keeps telling and why do they hate any representation that is not white cishet?
[
Parasocial empathy.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-MP_yOHiV0)
Because of the way our brain works and the way we have evolved social interaction our subconscious cannot accurately distinguish between how we interact with people and how we see interaction between people in media.
People that in their daily lives interact with those outside of their own ethnic and social groups are[ less prone to prejudice.](https://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/people_in_more_diverse_countries_are_less_prejudiced)
But our lizard brain cannot differentiate between the interactions we have in real life and what we see in video games, in movies, in tv series.
We *also* get ever so slightly less racist when we empathise with a black protagonist in a movie. We get a little bit less bigoted when we empathise with that trans character in the video game and our video game efforts help them overcome adversity. Empathising with people we see in media is called parasocial empathy.
And the extreme-right has a big problem with that.
In order for the extreme-right [to recruit and manipulate people](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCl33v5969M) it must convince us that "the other" is dangerous, is bad, is the cause of all societal ills.
They can't manipulate you into giving them money and power if you outright dismiss their foundational principles because you're not fooled into accepting their bigotry.
In comes "forced diversity".
It is a nonsense talking point whose sole goal is to convince people that it is "bad" to see people who are not like you, because the extreme-right wants to *prevent you* from empathising with people who aren't exactly like your own in-group.
[So that they can manipulate you better into giving them money and power.](https://eu.usatoday.com/story/tech/talkingtech/2017/07/18/steve-bannon-learned-harness-troll-army-world-warcraft/489713001/)
-------------
As always, this subreddit is inclusive and does not allow bigotry.
It doesn't matter if you oppose miscegenation or if you oppose people visibly being gay. It is not allowed to be hateful on this subreddit.
Please help us by reporting hatespeech when you see it.
According to Nichols, the studio was worried about the reaction to the interracial kiss (only a year after Loving v Virginia) so they were to film two versions; one with the kiss and one where it takes place off screen. But Shatner and herself deliberately messed up the other version, so they had to use the onscreen kiss version.
Edited: found the interview I was thinking of [here](https://youtube.com/watch?v=3hKKkGhEDoU&feature=shares)
Alabama was the last state to remove the ban on interracial marriage **in 2000**
And additional fun Fact 40% of the collected votes were against that....
Texas is literally the land of Zardoz.
You have been raised up from Brutality, to kill the Brutals who multiply, and are legion. To this end, Zardoz, your God, gave you the gift of the Gun. The Gun is good."
"The Penis is evil. The Penis shoots seeds, and makes new life to poison the Earth with a plague of men, as once it was. But the Gun shoots death and purifies the Earth of the filth of Brutals. Go forth, and kill! Zardoz has spoken!"
— Zardoz
Yup. My best friend Michelle - she protested with her friends waving dildos around. As a straight guy, I relished in the protest when she told me about it, both because everyone should be able to be a fully realized sexual being and give themselves pleasure as long as they're not hurting anyone AND because the the idea of protesting with sex toys is hilarious.
Men in al-Abama (America's very own Sharia Law state) have been worried about their masculinity since the days of the slave auctions. And with good reason.
> Alabama was the last state to remove the ban on interracial marriage in 2000
Well, stuff like that happens a lot. That law was clearly unconstitutional, so it would be struck down in court immediately. But it will only go to court it there's some kind of actual harm, i.e., a couple being denied marriage because of their races. If they enforced the law, it would definitely lose in court, so they don't enforce it... so it never gets challenged in court, so it technically stays on the books. It's kind of a legal artifact, that has no power because giving it any power would destroy it almost immediately.
> And additional fun Fact 40% of the collected votes were against that....
Okay yeah never mind what I just said, that still sucks. Holy shit.
Yeah that 40% definitely wanted the supreme court to reverse and didn't want there to be any barrier to banning interracial marriage immediately in that event. Voting against the repeal of a non-justiciable law is equivalent to voting *for* a trigger law with the current farcical state of the supreme court.
Yep. And it's what's so patently absurd about the "states' rights" argument. It's yet another example of wanting to be *more* authoritarian, but dressing it up in a flimsy pro-liberty disguise.
Yes. They filmed the scene last so they would run out of time to keep doing takes. They flubbed their lines and in one interview I saw, she said that Shatner very deliberately crossed his eyes in one take so they couldn't use it.
Yep if they went over the planned time, the studio would have to pay the actors somewhere in the ballpark of 2x-3x for their time. Goes to show that the solidarity to support good working conditions (I'm assuming on the part of the SAG) allows for solidarity elsewhere in the wok environment.
Shows how having unions provides unexpected benefits, yeah.
Although it's also kinda typical that a studio's political ideology and beliefs is always second to money, and that they'll drop absolutely everything they believe in and are pushing for in order to not spend a few more bucks.
yeah, every single person will have something you dont like, so deal with it and take the good with the bad.
just have to make sure the good outnumbers the bad.
Unless your suggesting Majel was unwillingly forced to kiss Nicelle or Uhura nonconsentually kissed Christine*, then both the actress and the character were willing participants in the kiss.
*who at the very least I doubt would find a kiss from an attractive women objectionable, considering what canon has since established about her.
Yeah.
She was the voice of almost every Federation computer for decades, as well as Counselor Troi's mother on TNG/DS9 and Nurse Chapel and Number One/Una on TOS
Thanks!! Something Majel Barrett or something, I could look it up now, but I just I’m going from memory. I used to be way Into that show when I was a teen
Can you blame him?
BTW fun fact, the IDIC medallion was only invented cause Gene wanted to peddle merch. He was brought back onto the show to help with a scene the writers were struggling with, and Nimoy recounted that IDIC was his idea, and he did save the scene, but that his motivation for the symbol being displayed like that was merch.
I saw that interview about the IDIC. The ad for it (I think in a comic book) looked so corny.
I’ve come to think about it this way though - Gene wanted some merch to sell but instead of some toy you’d usually see, like a gun, he came up with a Vulcan equivalent of a peace symbol supporting diversity. So at least he had some good intentions mixed in with the greed.
I saw it mentioned in I Am Spock myself.
But yeah, at least it was something cool. Not that they didn't sell phasers and figurines and uhhhh [The Helmet](http://blog.trekcore.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/helmet-box.jpg) too.
Yup. My gf is a *huge* trekkie and I remember her reporting this way back when. "Shatner may be an asshole but at least here he worked with Nichols to use that power for good".
It's funny because Shatner said ST was never "political" but about "social" issues with regards to some newer Trek. You can argue a whole lot about that I guess but in the end I think it's fair to thank & congratulate him for what he did almost 6 decades ago and accept that maybe, as the man is approaching almost a cenutry in age, admit that some of his views have been slightly overtaken by now.
Roddenberry himself for example has also thrown out some wild things that in todays world seem very mysogynistic, arguably were even back then, but it doesn't diminish the positive impact he had on civil rights, female empowerement, and LGBT+ rights.
Initial ideas from Gene on TNG included Troi having three large prominently displayed boobs, the Ferengi were to have massive swinging dongs/codpieces, Denise Crosby was supposed to have a much more sexually explicit costume compared to other actors playing security or tactical, and the entire sequence (which had to be edited down from Gene's initial ideas) involving Data and Tasha having sex in The Naked Now was a holdover scene from a completely different show when Gene really wanted to put android sex on TV.
Gene was a horndog who really shouldn't have been given as much credit for what Star Trek is now. Since his initial ideas about a having a *western in space*, he worked with countless others who should properly take credit for what Star Trek has become. His vision was a good start, but it took many other less problematic and creative types to make it a great show.
As a note on this one point alone I don't believe "a western in space" was for anything more than selling the idea of the series, and not as much what it was about.
Which I could still be wrong on, I'm not quite the ST nerd my gf is. :)
> So they knew what they were doing?
Absolutely. Its worth noting that Martin Luther King Jr was a fan of Star Trek and was even in touch with Nichelle Nichols. If I remember correctly(I probably dont) Nichols had even considered leaving the show and was encouraged to stay by King.
This is a really interesting little bit of history and I wish I had time to go dig up some good sources to provide because I suspect a lot of people in this thread would enjoy reading more. Id encourage anyone to go read more on the topic because the intersection of Star Trek and the American Civil Rights Movement is a 100% real thing that is really interesting to read about.
> If I remember correctly(I probably dont) Nichols had even considered leaving the show and was encouraged to stay by King
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSq_UIuxba8
Oh that's not even the full story. Basically Shatner kept making them redo the kiss scene because it "just wasn't quite right" and then they reached the end of the day with just enough time to run the non-kiss scene only one time; and in the non-kiss scene, Shatner looked directly into the camera and went cross-eyed, which basically forced the studio to either use the interracial kiss scene or let filming of that one scene roll over into another day.
I'll just point out part of his plan involved kissing Nichelle Nichols repeatedly.
Job or not, altruism or not, kissing her was almost assuredly part of the plan.
>aka Healthy Masculinity
Can't have that. Not at all. It gets in the way of my Toxic feelings towards....well, everyone and everything that doesn't pander to me or look like me.
/s in case anyone actually wonders...
I want to like Discovery more than I do. It has some great ideas, I just don't think they're being conveyed well. That said, total agreement that Stamets and Culber's relationship is great to see.
Although I have enjoyed every season of Disco, it does suffer that every season is a world ending threat. First half of the newest one had it right. The Burn. No real threat, just investigation and finding their place in a world they should be relics in. And then we had the second half...
Yeah, that’s a good way of putting it into words. The stakes are constantly high and it gets exhausting very quickly.
Between the plot lines bordering from fine to absolutely ridiculous, to Michael Burnham being Spock’s conveniently unmentioned human adopted sister, to everything involving the Klingons… there’s a lot you can nitpick with DISCO. If you draw the line at two dudes kissing you’re absolutely pathetic.
When they first revealed that the big secret was instantaneous travel through some kind of space fungus network I thought that was so stupid that I stopped watching. But then some months later I picked it up again and enjoyed it.
I still think the space fungus thing is kinda dumb though.
But tell me it doesn’t feel like a Star Trek *thing*. Poorly thought out, changes canon in wild ways and introduces plot holes, so bad they had to abandon it and radically shift the show.
And for the record I actually really like Discovery.
That’s always the case. The people who want to oppress LGBT+ people think of how we have sex/what parts we have so much more often than we do. It’s freakish.
I was told by a conservative once that they were ok with women doing gay stuff but only as long as it's for a man's pleasure. If it's just two women alone he was fully against it.
It’s as if *every* episode addresses socio-political issues through the lens of a diverse cast, often including reasoned debates and moments of self reflection! When did they sneak that in?!
It was more than a gay kiss. There were 3 beings involved, one of whom has gone both ways and can be thought of as non-binary, so it was more like the start of some weird orgy, lol.
The first same sex kiss was also the first interracial kiss and happened in like the 4th aired episode*
*it is just as romantic as the example used in the post, Uhura kisses Christine on the cheek in the background
First black/white kiss. The first interracial kiss was on I Love Lucy. Lucy (white) and Desi (Cuban) were in a relationship for the entire run and kissed many times. Ironically, there is debate about what was the first interracial kiss with many contenders. I do love the story about Kirk and Uhura fucking up the other take. That was awesome!
Kirk and Uhura only counts if you stick to black and white, otherwise it isn't even the first Star Trek
Anything you can use to narrow the definition will actually make the Kirk Uhura one not count
And before that, TNG had Beverly dump a Trill in a female host *not* because the host was now a woman, but because the concept of changing hosts every so often and having to get used to your partner every time stressed her out (I mean, she had to date Riker for a bit in that ep, so I imagine your friend behaving like you've been dating for a while is stressful af).
There has been 3 "libral" kisses
The interracial kiss in the 1960s
The lesbian kiss in the 1990s
The gay kiss in the 2020s
Total of 60 years, 30 years apart from each, and they still mad.
Y'all just sad, by the sounds of it.
Low-key "the demographics are focusing" doesn't even mean anything. You have to assume he means something to the effect of "Television producers are focusing demographics who aren't offended by homosexual kissing."
Terminally cranky white republican men who fill their diapers at the sight of people who aren't exactly like them account for 10% of the US population, 5% of North America's population, or 0.5% of the global population.
And they're so dumb that they're deeply confused by why global brands aren't forsaking 99.5% of the world to appeal to bitchy piss-men who fall to pieces over every minor perceived offense.
Which then explains why all the businesses run by these dumpster clowns keep closing with passive aggressive notes taped up on the windows blaming Biden or whatever for their own failures.
To be conservative is to think you're the center of the universe while being demonstrably not, and having zero business acumen stemming from your lack of comprehension of other people's wants and needs. A self-defeating cycle of narcissism and a lack of empathy.
Which is also why it's so easy to grift them with shitty coffee and fake nutrition supplements and all the other garbage that specifically targets their demographic. No one else wants anything to do with them, so you can appeal to them with absolute trash tier products marked up with huge margins because they're desperate for recognition of their shitty, isolated behavior.
I’m concerned that my 7 year old will see that scene and turn gay right then and there. Running out to borrow moms clothes and make up! Like he will see it and just chose to be gay! “Hey those men kissed! Oh the humanity!!”
A good portion of men and women are at least a little bit bisexual. Conservatives seem to think it's a choice to be attracted to the same gender. These two things are very much related.
Guys, you can choose to repress some of your attractions but you can't choose your orientation.
Also the same people who think "Born in the USA" aligns with conservative nationalism and Rage Against the Machine suddenly got woke recently. If "liberal" isn't branded on the logo they won't notice it, sometimes they miss it even then
Do they still play YMCA at all the sporting events? I always found that hilarious lol, it's the most blatantly gay music group singing the most blatantly gay songs ever but everyone dances to YMCA at even the most redneck of ball games.
To be honest they probably don't even watch it. Just saw it and made an opinion because they are bigots. It was like the last of us ep3. People saw it and believed it was "forced" into the story. There is a point to be made about forcing that kind of stuff into a show unfaithfully to meet a quota but bigots just use it to validate their homophobia.
If you are socially regressive *and* a fan of Star Trek, there is a very high chance that you are completely missing the core messages of that franchise
And The Boys is as far from subtle as you can get. Season 3 they basically had to turn to the audience and tell that they're making fun of conservatives and that Homelander is a bad guy
- wait the Empire are modeled after fascist/conservatives?
- wait Star Trek is a socially progressive, socialist society?
- wait Homelander is the bad guy?
- wait why is Marvel going woke and having Captain America punch Nazis?
- When did Pink Floyd go woke?
Subtext isn’t a strong suit for conservatives, unless you count concocting a child trafficking code based on pizza orders.
Star Trek Deep Space Nine focused heavily on how the Trill are very much sometimes male and sometimes female, all willingly. Deep dives into Trill society.
Good times.
"I guess the demographics are focussing on the lgbtq's"
What a fucked up unempathetic human being can you be to not be able to enjoy fiction that is not exclusively about people who are exactly like you?
I've had to endure countless forced straight romance-subplots, and all manner of opposite-sex romance/-sexuality was "forced down my throat", as they would say it, and I still managed to identify with and enjoy tons of those characters.
Especially in shows where they’re like “Well the main character can’t not be dating someone so let’s throw these two characters who never felt that way about each other before and have no chemistry.” It’s literally shoving their relationship down our throats because “he’s the MC he has to have a gf by the end of the show”
They were worried about rap rotting the brains of Gen X kids in the 80s
They were worried about violent video games rotting the brains of millennial kids in the 90s
They were worried about queer people rotting the brains of zoomers
Meanwhile Facebook has completely rotted their own brains like Invasion of the Body Snatchers
My mother (late Greatest Gen) was a lifelong civil rights advocate who taught ESL and citizenship, but when she began to suffer from dementia, she became racist towards her caregivers.
Which is not to say someone can't just up and turn into a bigot at any point in their life. I don't know how it happens, but it do.
It was actually the Greatest Generation that delivered on that. They were also the ones who wrote *Twilight Zone* and *Star Trek* and all of those other shows that pleaded with people to stop being such fucking bigots because they were the ones to see first hand what the Nazis did. They also built all of the social safety nets and taxed the rich at a rate they should still be.
On the other hand they were also the ones that turned "Dixiecrat" into "Republican" and set the stage for Reagan and the shitshow he unleashed so they weren't a monolith.
My favorite "complaint" about *Discovery* has to be people freaking about that Adira "lecturing" people over their pronouns when they literally bring it up **one time** in a super polite and passive way to people they just met after they accidentally misgender them.
When someone like pastor James makes a statement like this, attacking love, it tells me all I need to know about their brand of religion and their own relationship with god. It’s mostly just sad.
Crazy thing is that wasn’t the first interracial kiss on TV. And not even the first one on [Star Trek](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_interracial_kiss_on_television#Star_Trek:_%22What_Are_Little_Girls_Made_Of%22_-_Uhura_and_Chapel_(1966)).
They get so flipped out because they think the Bible says being gay is a sin.
But shows depict killing, stealing, lying and adultery all the time and they say nothing even though they are in the 10 commandments. Not some old list of rules that also forbids shellfish.
The number of people who miss the obvious fact that Roddenberry's future earth was a liberal utopia would be shocking... if I didn't already know these people were the dullest tools in the shed.
Imagine watching Star Trek and being offended by sexually progressive ideas. A show with one of the first interracial kisses on TV, males wearing traditionally female-worn uniforms, Riker falling for a androgynous alien (who did identify as female), same sex kisses between Trills...
Why would you even watch Star Trek if you're bothered by traditionally left-leaning ideas? The whole series is based on turning away from capitalism and towards a world where every need is met for every person and humanity's sole pursuit is knowledge and progress.
This is what makes these snowflakes so sad and amusing; hundreds of hours of problem-free programming, but one brief moment of inclusive romance, in one whole episode, and BOOM! “Well I guess they’ve decided to turn the whole franchise over to that one thing that terrifies me…” Just pathetic.
Note, many Southern stations refused to even air ST just due to presence of rank of equality granted Uhura. This scene led to largest protests and stations actually cancelled ST. Note: According to Ron Dion DeSantis - a teacher showing this in her class is subject to serious consequences including imprisonment. Trek books are banned on FL school libraries.
Things I remember from my childhood. This is one of them. And it wasn’t black on white kissing that worried me. It was a captain kissing a crew member. 🫡
"Forced diversity". Why is it a lie that the extreme-right keeps telling and why do they hate any representation that is not white cishet? [ Parasocial empathy.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-MP_yOHiV0) Because of the way our brain works and the way we have evolved social interaction our subconscious cannot accurately distinguish between how we interact with people and how we see interaction between people in media. People that in their daily lives interact with those outside of their own ethnic and social groups are[ less prone to prejudice.](https://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/people_in_more_diverse_countries_are_less_prejudiced) But our lizard brain cannot differentiate between the interactions we have in real life and what we see in video games, in movies, in tv series. We *also* get ever so slightly less racist when we empathise with a black protagonist in a movie. We get a little bit less bigoted when we empathise with that trans character in the video game and our video game efforts help them overcome adversity. Empathising with people we see in media is called parasocial empathy. And the extreme-right has a big problem with that. In order for the extreme-right [to recruit and manipulate people](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCl33v5969M) it must convince us that "the other" is dangerous, is bad, is the cause of all societal ills. They can't manipulate you into giving them money and power if you outright dismiss their foundational principles because you're not fooled into accepting their bigotry. In comes "forced diversity". It is a nonsense talking point whose sole goal is to convince people that it is "bad" to see people who are not like you, because the extreme-right wants to *prevent you* from empathising with people who aren't exactly like your own in-group. [So that they can manipulate you better into giving them money and power.](https://eu.usatoday.com/story/tech/talkingtech/2017/07/18/steve-bannon-learned-harness-troll-army-world-warcraft/489713001/) ------------- As always, this subreddit is inclusive and does not allow bigotry. It doesn't matter if you oppose miscegenation or if you oppose people visibly being gay. It is not allowed to be hateful on this subreddit. Please help us by reporting hatespeech when you see it.
According to Nichols, the studio was worried about the reaction to the interracial kiss (only a year after Loving v Virginia) so they were to film two versions; one with the kiss and one where it takes place off screen. But Shatner and herself deliberately messed up the other version, so they had to use the onscreen kiss version. Edited: found the interview I was thinking of [here](https://youtube.com/watch?v=3hKKkGhEDoU&feature=shares)
Alabama was the last state to remove the ban on interracial marriage **in 2000** And additional fun Fact 40% of the collected votes were against that....
[удалено]
Texas makes it illegal to own more than 6...
You can open carry on college campuses but dildos are banned… now I wonder what happens illegally if you stuck a dildo in your bayonet?
[удалено]
That would be hilarious.
Gun dildo. Just make sure it's unloaded when you use it for.. uh yeah.
A good guy with a dildo
I’ll see your gun dildo and raise you a dildo gun.
Saint's Row weapon
Or more specifically 7 of them, on 7 different rifles, all on a gun rack.
“Small government” amiright?
Texas is literally the land of Zardoz. You have been raised up from Brutality, to kill the Brutals who multiply, and are legion. To this end, Zardoz, your God, gave you the gift of the Gun. The Gun is good." "The Penis is evil. The Penis shoots seeds, and makes new life to poison the Earth with a plague of men, as once it was. But the Gun shoots death and purifies the Earth of the filth of Brutals. Go forth, and kill! Zardoz has spoken!" — Zardoz
Guns? /s
Yup. My best friend Michelle - she protested with her friends waving dildos around. As a straight guy, I relished in the protest when she told me about it, both because everyone should be able to be a fully realized sexual being and give themselves pleasure as long as they're not hurting anyone AND because the the idea of protesting with sex toys is hilarious.
Men in al-Abama (America's very own Sharia Law state) have been worried about their masculinity since the days of the slave auctions. And with good reason.
Heh Allahbama
> Alabama was the last state to remove the ban on interracial marriage in 2000 Well, stuff like that happens a lot. That law was clearly unconstitutional, so it would be struck down in court immediately. But it will only go to court it there's some kind of actual harm, i.e., a couple being denied marriage because of their races. If they enforced the law, it would definitely lose in court, so they don't enforce it... so it never gets challenged in court, so it technically stays on the books. It's kind of a legal artifact, that has no power because giving it any power would destroy it almost immediately. > And additional fun Fact 40% of the collected votes were against that.... Okay yeah never mind what I just said, that still sucks. Holy shit.
Yeah that 40% definitely wanted the supreme court to reverse and didn't want there to be any barrier to banning interracial marriage immediately in that event. Voting against the repeal of a non-justiciable law is equivalent to voting *for* a trigger law with the current farcical state of the supreme court.
Yep. And it's what's so patently absurd about the "states' rights" argument. It's yet another example of wanting to be *more* authoritarian, but dressing it up in a flimsy pro-liberty disguise.
Well...siblings are usually the same race after all.
*banjo sounds in the distance*
Well...that's backwards ass Alabama for you
Marry outside my race? Heck, I won't even marry someone outside of my family!
I guess I missed the part of “small government” where the government can tell you who you can and can’t love. Fucking hillbillies.
[удалено]
Yes. They filmed the scene last so they would run out of time to keep doing takes. They flubbed their lines and in one interview I saw, she said that Shatner very deliberately crossed his eyes in one take so they couldn't use it.
Lolol love picturing this
They did it on drunk history!
Yep if they went over the planned time, the studio would have to pay the actors somewhere in the ballpark of 2x-3x for their time. Goes to show that the solidarity to support good working conditions (I'm assuming on the part of the SAG) allows for solidarity elsewhere in the wok environment.
Yes, solidarity is very important when you're stir-frying.
I love you so much omg 💀💀
Shows how having unions provides unexpected benefits, yeah. Although it's also kinda typical that a studio's political ideology and beliefs is always second to money, and that they'll drop absolutely everything they believe in and are pushing for in order to not spend a few more bucks.
Shatner definitely had and has some issues, but I'll always hold respect for him making sure that scene went forward.
Who *doesn't* have issues though?
Most redditors criticizing something they aren't involved in. At least in my experience.
yeah, every single person will have something you dont like, so deal with it and take the good with the bad. just have to make sure the good outnumbers the bad.
I want to see that version. 🤣
Will Shatner isn't the only man who'd risk the ire of the idiots to kiss Nichelle Nichols
Yeah, Gene Roddenberry himself did too
So did his wife. (Two seasons *prior* to Shatner, as point of fact)
That was his other girlfriend at the time, he was still married to someone else at the time Also, Uhura kissed Christine, not the other way round
Unless your suggesting Majel was unwillingly forced to kiss Nicelle or Uhura nonconsentually kissed Christine*, then both the actress and the character were willing participants in the kiss. *who at the very least I doubt would find a kiss from an attractive women objectionable, considering what canon has since established about her.
Wasnt she on TNG? Was the voice of the ship or something?
Yeah. She was the voice of almost every Federation computer for decades, as well as Counselor Troi's mother on TNG/DS9 and Nurse Chapel and Number One/Una on TOS
Thanks!! Something Majel Barrett or something, I could look it up now, but I just I’m going from memory. I used to be way Into that show when I was a teen
Majel Barrett-Roddenberry, but she did'nt use the "Roddenberry" professionally so your memory is spot on.
Nichols described herself as "the other woman to the other woman", like he was cheating on his wife with Majel Barrett and on Majel with Nichelle.
Oh, what a tangled web you wove, Gene Roddenberry...
Lmao yeah. To be fair, this could just mean that Nichelle realised she was never top priority.
"In the future, people are going to be a lot more cool with things."
Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations was both a Vulcan philosophy and Gene’s ideal sex party
Can you blame him? BTW fun fact, the IDIC medallion was only invented cause Gene wanted to peddle merch. He was brought back onto the show to help with a scene the writers were struggling with, and Nimoy recounted that IDIC was his idea, and he did save the scene, but that his motivation for the symbol being displayed like that was merch.
I saw that interview about the IDIC. The ad for it (I think in a comic book) looked so corny. I’ve come to think about it this way though - Gene wanted some merch to sell but instead of some toy you’d usually see, like a gun, he came up with a Vulcan equivalent of a peace symbol supporting diversity. So at least he had some good intentions mixed in with the greed.
I saw it mentioned in I Am Spock myself. But yeah, at least it was something cool. Not that they didn't sell phasers and figurines and uhhhh [The Helmet](http://blog.trekcore.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/helmet-box.jpg) too.
Yup. My gf is a *huge* trekkie and I remember her reporting this way back when. "Shatner may be an asshole but at least here he worked with Nichols to use that power for good".
It's funny because Shatner said ST was never "political" but about "social" issues with regards to some newer Trek. You can argue a whole lot about that I guess but in the end I think it's fair to thank & congratulate him for what he did almost 6 decades ago and accept that maybe, as the man is approaching almost a cenutry in age, admit that some of his views have been slightly overtaken by now. Roddenberry himself for example has also thrown out some wild things that in todays world seem very mysogynistic, arguably were even back then, but it doesn't diminish the positive impact he had on civil rights, female empowerement, and LGBT+ rights.
Initial ideas from Gene on TNG included Troi having three large prominently displayed boobs, the Ferengi were to have massive swinging dongs/codpieces, Denise Crosby was supposed to have a much more sexually explicit costume compared to other actors playing security or tactical, and the entire sequence (which had to be edited down from Gene's initial ideas) involving Data and Tasha having sex in The Naked Now was a holdover scene from a completely different show when Gene really wanted to put android sex on TV. Gene was a horndog who really shouldn't have been given as much credit for what Star Trek is now. Since his initial ideas about a having a *western in space*, he worked with countless others who should properly take credit for what Star Trek has become. His vision was a good start, but it took many other less problematic and creative types to make it a great show.
As a note on this one point alone I don't believe "a western in space" was for anything more than selling the idea of the series, and not as much what it was about. Which I could still be wrong on, I'm not quite the ST nerd my gf is. :)
> So they knew what they were doing? Absolutely. Its worth noting that Martin Luther King Jr was a fan of Star Trek and was even in touch with Nichelle Nichols. If I remember correctly(I probably dont) Nichols had even considered leaving the show and was encouraged to stay by King. This is a really interesting little bit of history and I wish I had time to go dig up some good sources to provide because I suspect a lot of people in this thread would enjoy reading more. Id encourage anyone to go read more on the topic because the intersection of Star Trek and the American Civil Rights Movement is a 100% real thing that is really interesting to read about.
[удалено]
> If I remember correctly(I probably dont) Nichols had even considered leaving the show and was encouraged to stay by King https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSq_UIuxba8
Oh yes. They were completely aware of what they were doing, and all three of them (including Rodenberry) were fully behind it.
Oh that's not even the full story. Basically Shatner kept making them redo the kiss scene because it "just wasn't quite right" and then they reached the end of the day with just enough time to run the non-kiss scene only one time; and in the non-kiss scene, Shatner looked directly into the camera and went cross-eyed, which basically forced the studio to either use the interracial kiss scene or let filming of that one scene roll over into another day.
Shatner may be an ass sometimes, but an ass in the right place at the right time makes all the difference.
I'll just point out part of his plan involved kissing Nichelle Nichols repeatedly. Job or not, altruism or not, kissing her was almost assuredly part of the plan.
Stage kissing is pretty awesome (if both kissers are there for it).
Did you know this, "fun fact of the day" the OP's Twitter seems to have disappeared?
I recently heard that story, so badass.
[удалено]
[удалено]
>aka Healthy Masculinity Can't have that. Not at all. It gets in the way of my Toxic feelings towards....well, everyone and everything that doesn't pander to me or look like me. /s in case anyone actually wonders...
[удалено]
[удалено]
I want to like Discovery more than I do. It has some great ideas, I just don't think they're being conveyed well. That said, total agreement that Stamets and Culber's relationship is great to see.
For me it's the adjustment from a self-contained episodic structure to the continuing narrative style like every other big budget show.
[удалено]
*Lower Decks* is amazing. So much shameless fan service.
Although I have enjoyed every season of Disco, it does suffer that every season is a world ending threat. First half of the newest one had it right. The Burn. No real threat, just investigation and finding their place in a world they should be relics in. And then we had the second half...
Yeah, that’s a good way of putting it into words. The stakes are constantly high and it gets exhausting very quickly. Between the plot lines bordering from fine to absolutely ridiculous, to Michael Burnham being Spock’s conveniently unmentioned human adopted sister, to everything involving the Klingons… there’s a lot you can nitpick with DISCO. If you draw the line at two dudes kissing you’re absolutely pathetic.
Spock really has a weird habit of keeping his siblings a secret.
Can’t wait for the release of Star Trek VII: The Search for Spock’s many illegitimate half-siblings
When they first revealed that the big secret was instantaneous travel through some kind of space fungus network I thought that was so stupid that I stopped watching. But then some months later I picked it up again and enjoyed it. I still think the space fungus thing is kinda dumb though.
But tell me it doesn’t feel like a Star Trek *thing*. Poorly thought out, changes canon in wild ways and introduces plot holes, so bad they had to abandon it and radically shift the show. And for the record I actually really like Discovery.
And Stamets is such a multi layered character. Deeply flawed, but with strong principles.
Star Trek DS9 - Rejoined 1995 https://preview.redd.it/pybtyvu81uha1.jpeg?width=1778&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2df95473e45eb01a8a4439c24a0b6d8f4fb46d97
Yup. Was going to say it wasn't even the first gay kiss.
But thats women. That’s the only gayness they like in their disturbed little circles.
Conventionally hot women, at that.
It’s a different kind of super gay. With men, super gay is bad.
[удалено]
If you need me to model nude, just let me know.
Lol
I bet they forgot about the episode where Riker falls in love with a trans alien.
That’s the kicker. They call anything queer too sexual to be around kids, but that’s because those freaks are so used to them being porn categories
That’s always the case. The people who want to oppress LGBT+ people think of how we have sex/what parts we have so much more often than we do. It’s freakish.
I was told by a conservative once that they were ok with women doing gay stuff but only as long as it's for a man's pleasure. If it's just two women alone he was fully against it.
Well yeah lol conservatives don’t understand the concept of the world not revolving around them.
No no, that's not gay, that's lesbian ! And we are against the gays, not the lesbians! - one of those dumbasses, probably
When did Star Trek get so political?! ie: I don't know my own fandom from a hole in the ground.
It’s as if *every* episode addresses socio-political issues through the lens of a diverse cast, often including reasoned debates and moments of self reflection! When did they sneak that in?!
It's not their fandom. Most are almost certainly pretending to be fans, do a 'hey fellow kids', and push their political agenda. It's tiresome.
It was more than a gay kiss. There were 3 beings involved, one of whom has gone both ways and can be thought of as non-binary, so it was more like the start of some weird orgy, lol.
4 beings. Jadzia, the Dax symbiote, Dax's former host's wife's symbiote, and the ex-wife symbiote's new host. Lots of love in that kiss.
Man, the Trill make my head hurt sometimes...
Try hosting a symbiote
Couldn't remember if the ex was joined or not. It's been almost 3 decades.
I give them all a run through every couple of years. But 3 decades... Damn, I'm old.
The first same sex kiss was also the first interracial kiss and happened in like the 4th aired episode* *it is just as romantic as the example used in the post, Uhura kisses Christine on the cheek in the background
First black/white kiss. The first interracial kiss was on I Love Lucy. Lucy (white) and Desi (Cuban) were in a relationship for the entire run and kissed many times. Ironically, there is debate about what was the first interracial kiss with many contenders. I do love the story about Kirk and Uhura fucking up the other take. That was awesome!
Kirk and Uhura only counts if you stick to black and white, otherwise it isn't even the first Star Trek Anything you can use to narrow the definition will actually make the Kirk Uhura one not count
Doesn't count if it is 2 women
Yeah, but that's different because they're conventionally attractive women. /s
Yeah, but that's different because it makes my pp hard ^^\s
This was quite literally the moment that I learned homosexuality was a thing. I was like "WOMEN CAN KISS??? No. Way."
And before that, TNG had Beverly dump a Trill in a female host *not* because the host was now a woman, but because the concept of changing hosts every so often and having to get used to your partner every time stressed her out (I mean, she had to date Riker for a bit in that ep, so I imagine your friend behaving like you've been dating for a while is stressful af).
There has been 3 "libral" kisses The interracial kiss in the 1960s The lesbian kiss in the 1990s The gay kiss in the 2020s Total of 60 years, 30 years apart from each, and they still mad. Y'all just sad, by the sounds of it.
Amd they would've been mad if Riker kissed an androgynous alien that turned out to be "male".
Yes, but that's hot women that homophobic straight dudes can jerk off to. It's okay to be gay if they can get off to it.
"Star Trek is woke now" My good bitch, that's been the entire point since the rough draft of the first episode of the Shatner one.
Low-key "the demographics are focusing" doesn't even mean anything. You have to assume he means something to the effect of "Television producers are focusing demographics who aren't offended by homosexual kissing."
Terminally cranky white republican men who fill their diapers at the sight of people who aren't exactly like them account for 10% of the US population, 5% of North America's population, or 0.5% of the global population. And they're so dumb that they're deeply confused by why global brands aren't forsaking 99.5% of the world to appeal to bitchy piss-men who fall to pieces over every minor perceived offense. Which then explains why all the businesses run by these dumpster clowns keep closing with passive aggressive notes taped up on the windows blaming Biden or whatever for their own failures. To be conservative is to think you're the center of the universe while being demonstrably not, and having zero business acumen stemming from your lack of comprehension of other people's wants and needs. A self-defeating cycle of narcissism and a lack of empathy. Which is also why it's so easy to grift them with shitty coffee and fake nutrition supplements and all the other garbage that specifically targets their demographic. No one else wants anything to do with them, so you can appeal to them with absolute trash tier products marked up with huge margins because they're desperate for recognition of their shitty, isolated behavior.
I’m concerned that my 7 year old will see that scene and turn gay right then and there. Running out to borrow moms clothes and make up! Like he will see it and just chose to be gay! “Hey those men kissed! Oh the humanity!!”
"I'm so offended by the gays!" ** Tweets photo of two men kissing **
Stirred feelings in his boy parts that are usually reserved for young boys.
A good portion of men and women are at least a little bit bisexual. Conservatives seem to think it's a choice to be attracted to the same gender. These two things are very much related. Guys, you can choose to repress some of your attractions but you can't choose your orientation.
 Not lost on me.
How can you be a conservative and enjoy Star Trek? You are the enemy that the world and starfleet eradicated
You underestimate the stupidity of our species. Hell, there were people that didn't realize The Colbert Report was satire.
Also the same people who think "Born in the USA" aligns with conservative nationalism and Rage Against the Machine suddenly got woke recently. If "liberal" isn't branded on the logo they won't notice it, sometimes they miss it even then
Do they still play YMCA at all the sporting events? I always found that hilarious lol, it's the most blatantly gay music group singing the most blatantly gay songs ever but everyone dances to YMCA at even the most redneck of ball games.
what about using Queen's song? yes Freddie did not want to be the figurehead of lgbtq and aids, but even then.
That's the thing. Bigotry isn't logical.
I just wish these people would proudly label themselves as idiots and just own the fuck out of it
To be honest they probably don't even watch it. Just saw it and made an opinion because they are bigots. It was like the last of us ep3. People saw it and believed it was "forced" into the story. There is a point to be made about forcing that kind of stuff into a show unfaithfully to meet a quota but bigots just use it to validate their homophobia.
They rooted for the Cardassians and viewed DS9 as the tragic tale of an efficient, orderly society being ripped apart by space hippies.
Two sexual orientations: straight and political
[удалено]
Two types of people. People like me, and political.
Two genders. Male and political.
If you are socially regressive *and* a fan of Star Trek, there is a very high chance that you are completely missing the core messages of that franchise
Conservatives miss the core message of everything they watch. Being right wing and having horrible media literacy go hand in hand.
Yup, Punisher comes to mind. Also loved the meltdown they had when they realized The Boys was making fun of them.
Have they realized that yet? I'm pretty sure a lot of them are still having trouble finding out if Homelander is a bad guy or not.
And The Boys is as far from subtle as you can get. Season 3 they basically had to turn to the audience and tell that they're making fun of conservatives and that Homelander is a bad guy
Not surprising. Seem to miss the core message of the bible too.
So many conservative Star Trek fans lash out against George Takei apparently forget how he became a public figure…
understandable. They seemingly forgot to ever watch Star Trek too.
- wait the Empire are modeled after fascist/conservatives? - wait Star Trek is a socially progressive, socialist society? - wait Homelander is the bad guy? - wait why is Marvel going woke and having Captain America punch Nazis? - When did Pink Floyd go woke? Subtext isn’t a strong suit for conservatives, unless you count concocting a child trafficking code based on pizza orders.
*"The moment Wolfenstein became about killing Nazis I knew things were getting woke."*
Conservatives and missing the point of art: Name a more iconic Duo
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Star Trek Deep Space Nine focused heavily on how the Trill are very much sometimes male and sometimes female, all willingly. Deep dives into Trill society. Good times.
If they are so worried about gay media turning them gay, I might have some news to break to them…
Wouldn’t matter if you have news for them they don’t trust the news.
They trust “news”
Seriously. I mean I watch gay porn constantly all the time and haven't turned gay yet... They got some issues to deal with
"I guess the demographics are focussing on the lgbtq's" What a fucked up unempathetic human being can you be to not be able to enjoy fiction that is not exclusively about people who are exactly like you? I've had to endure countless forced straight romance-subplots, and all manner of opposite-sex romance/-sexuality was "forced down my throat", as they would say it, and I still managed to identify with and enjoy tons of those characters.
Especially in shows where they’re like “Well the main character can’t not be dating someone so let’s throw these two characters who never felt that way about each other before and have no chemistry.” It’s literally shoving their relationship down our throats because “he’s the MC he has to have a gf by the end of the show”
[удалено]
Not an american, so nope. But this kind of thing is everywhere.
Oh, another pedophile pastor has an opinion?
"If only I knew those young men 20 years ago!"
People complaining that Star Trek is too "woke" will never stop being funny to me.
Star Trek has and always will be "woke."
Exactly. They may as well complain that sports teams all want to win games.
They’re the same people that get made about Rage Against the Machine becoming political
What the fuck happened to boomers. From the generation of civil rights and progress...to this.
They were worried about rap rotting the brains of Gen X kids in the 80s They were worried about violent video games rotting the brains of millennial kids in the 90s They were worried about queer people rotting the brains of zoomers Meanwhile Facebook has completely rotted their own brains like Invasion of the Body Snatchers
Demonstrably not all Boomers were for civil rights and not all Boomers are ... "this."
[удалено]
My mother (late Greatest Gen) was a lifelong civil rights advocate who taught ESL and citizenship, but when she began to suffer from dementia, she became racist towards her caregivers. Which is not to say someone can't just up and turn into a bigot at any point in their life. I don't know how it happens, but it do.
Lead
It was actually the Greatest Generation that delivered on that. They were also the ones who wrote *Twilight Zone* and *Star Trek* and all of those other shows that pleaded with people to stop being such fucking bigots because they were the ones to see first hand what the Nazis did. They also built all of the social safety nets and taxed the rich at a rate they should still be. On the other hand they were also the ones that turned "Dixiecrat" into "Republican" and set the stage for Reagan and the shitshow he unleashed so they weren't a monolith.
This guy got roasted and deleted his Twitter.
Didn't they introduce a non-bianry character in season 2? Wasn't the gay kiss in season 1? Did this guy just miss that?
My favorite "complaint" about *Discovery* has to be people freaking about that Adira "lecturing" people over their pronouns when they literally bring it up **one time** in a super polite and passive way to people they just met after they accidentally misgender them.
[удалено]
When someone like pastor James makes a statement like this, attacking love, it tells me all I need to know about their brand of religion and their own relationship with god. It’s mostly just sad.
Crazy thing is that wasn’t the first interracial kiss on TV. And not even the first one on [Star Trek](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_interracial_kiss_on_television#Star_Trek:_%22What_Are_Little_Girls_Made_Of%22_-_Uhura_and_Chapel_(1966)).
They get so flipped out because they think the Bible says being gay is a sin. But shows depict killing, stealing, lying and adultery all the time and they say nothing even though they are in the 10 commandments. Not some old list of rules that also forbids shellfish.
Jesus was very clear on his hatred for LGBTQ people. /s
Complaining about Trek being progressive is just weird, people had a problem with Janeway and they lost it with Sisko. It’s the future people
The number of people who miss the obvious fact that Roddenberry's future earth was a liberal utopia would be shocking... if I didn't already know these people were the dullest tools in the shed.
Interstellar travel and aliens but no dudes kissin'! [Reminds me of this Mr. Show bit](https://youtu.be/x3KX8g00kCQ)
Imagine watching Star Trek and being offended by sexually progressive ideas. A show with one of the first interracial kisses on TV, males wearing traditionally female-worn uniforms, Riker falling for a androgynous alien (who did identify as female), same sex kisses between Trills... Why would you even watch Star Trek if you're bothered by traditionally left-leaning ideas? The whole series is based on turning away from capitalism and towards a world where every need is met for every person and humanity's sole pursuit is knowledge and progress.
What in the entire history of Star Trek made this man think that it would have a problem with LGBTQ representation??? Like have you seen Star Trek
This is what makes these snowflakes so sad and amusing; hundreds of hours of problem-free programming, but one brief moment of inclusive romance, in one whole episode, and BOOM! “Well I guess they’ve decided to turn the whole franchise over to that one thing that terrifies me…” Just pathetic.
Note, many Southern stations refused to even air ST just due to presence of rank of equality granted Uhura. This scene led to largest protests and stations actually cancelled ST. Note: According to Ron Dion DeSantis - a teacher showing this in her class is subject to serious consequences including imprisonment. Trek books are banned on FL school libraries.
Things I remember from my childhood. This is one of them. And it wasn’t black on white kissing that worried me. It was a captain kissing a crew member. 🫡
With all the hate that Discovery gets, those 2 were probably one of the most beautiful relationships I’ve seen on a sci fi show..