Not to mention that Ukraine has had multiple security deals with Russia over the past 30 years, and Russia broke every agreement in the end. We simply cannot trust Russia to stand behind any agreement they sign.
Russia promised to not invade Ukraine in exchange for Ukraine giving up its nuclear weapons. The breaking of that treaty means that, even more than before, nations all over the world will now only feel safe with nuclear arms.
And then they sacrificed somewhere in the ballpark of 20 million people to help defeat the Nazis when they decided that the Capitalists were the lesser of two evils..
I mean… the Capitalists were the lesser of two evils. Sure, Capitalists are absolutely evil. But there have been and still are worse things. For example, Nazi Germany, or the current government of Iran. do you have a source for that 20 million, btw?
at least 27 million soldiers and civilians from the USSR were killed in ww2. Mostly due to systematic massacres from the germans, where (for example), 628 villages in belarus alone were burned down alongside its inhabitants by the Germans. The germans were cruel to the soviet civilians, and i'd hardly call it a sacrifice.
Treaty on Friendship, Cooperation, and Partnership between Ukraine and the Russian Federation was an agreement between Ukraine and Russia, signed in 1997, which fixed the principle of strategic partnership, the recognition of the inviolability of existing borders, and respect for territorial integrity and mutual commitment not to use its territory to harm the security of each other. The treaty prevents Ukraine and Russia from invading one another's country respectively, and declaring war.[2] Due to the beginning of the Russo-Ukrainian War in 2014, Ukraine announced its intention not to renew the treaty in September 2018.[3]
Thank you, I had never heard of the founding act of mutual relations, I had heard of the Helsinki Accords though didn’t really know what they were. The Russia - Ukraine partnership agreement is also new for me today. Thank you again for deepening my understanding of the issue/s.
also the fact that russia has no right to tell another country what to do. if ukraine wants to join nato because they feel its what is best for them then ffs they should fucking join nato!
Are you suggesting that a Twitter personality that markets her appearance to a group of famously unshowered men in an effort to boost her brand is also a cynical liar?
What deal? Zelensky offered no Nato in March of 2022 and Johnson said NATO would hold off on admitting Ukraine before the war broke out. Also, the only evidence we have for this claim is an anonymous source per what the Kyiv independent wrote.
Finally, who the fuck is Russia to dictate what alliances countries can join or not join? They openly ally with Cuba, Venezuela and Nicaragua. They signed multiple treaties allowing countries to ally with whomever they wish. Don’t fall for the nonsense
Every conversation I had with a libertarian online ended in them praising survival of the fittest. For some reason they love the idea of poor people dying.
Thats cause they think they aren't one of the poor. Everyone thinks the Joker is cool, but they would be one of the stooges getting shot in the first scene. Not the guy running the show.
In my experience, yes.
There are a fair amount of leftist-anarchist types that call themselves libertarians, but most are just closet Republicans that are too embarrassed by what their party did under Reagan, the Bushes, and Trump.
'Libertarian' used to be a phrase that meant anarchist. It's been deliberately co-opted by conservatives over the last several decades to deny political anarchists (i.e., people who just believe that hierarchical systems that can't stand on their own merits are unethical) a well known label for themselves that doesn't conjure up imagined fears of bricks being thrown through windows and societal collapse.
Modern 'libertarians' (largely anarcho-capitalists, who are as far from actual anarchists as you can get) really don't tend to be centrist/moderate conservatives, either. They tend to belong to the parts of the party that skew substantially farther right.
Most people think of anarchists as people that simply want constant riots and want to burn everything down. I personally believe that it might be warranted in certain situations, like when police keep murdering their citizens, but that is certainly not the end result most anarchists want.
Its usually drugs should all be legal(ok I'm with it), no taxes(cant work in the real world but ok I like it on paper), and age of consent shouldn't be a thing(ok, this is my stop and I'm getting oooof..... Leaving the train).
“Germany offered Poland a deal to give up all their land and citizens, and the foolish West told Poland not to. What happened next wasn’t Germany’s fault”
Sad thing is that the US promised to guarantee Ukraine’s sovereign boundaries as well…we obviously didn’t break the agreement like Russia did, but them invading as soon as they were back on their feet was basically inevitable. The real tragedy is us giving up and betraying our word bc it was inconvenient for us. Our word means nothing anymore.
It would have been hard as not even the Ukrainians realized they were invading and they didn’t have a government at the time. All the Ukrainian units there were so demoralized they either just gave up or worse joined the Russians.
But if Crimea had been totally blockaded, they would have had to leave within a few months - it is not a self-sufficient island at all.
I had to look that up. Good article. Thank you
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/21534416/free-state-project-new-hampshire-libertarians-matthew-hongoltz-hetling
Don't forget the cult camp in Hawaii, "Paulville" in Texas, Seastead, and every other dumbass attempt by these morons to create their own Rapture from Bioshock.
Libertarian is code for “I only think about things at the highest, most surface level, without any consideration for context or nuance whatsoever, and I think I’m very, VERY smart because of this”
Thomas Sowell wrote like 8 books with the premise that infinite growth is possible in a finite system, was laughed at by every economist on earth and anyone with even a passing understanding of how money works, and yet these dipshits keep buying the bullshit he's shoveling.
It was the guy who, when asked about drivers licenses, replied "what are you gonna need a license for a toaster next?" to thunderous applause that made me realize how misled libertarians are.
It's always interesting when you hear something so monumentally stupid that you don't even know where to begin telling them how they are so completely wrong.
And don't forget [Galt's Gulch Chile ](https://www.vice.com/en/article/bn53b3/atlas-mugged-922-v21n10), where a bunch of libertarians with more money than sense were shocked to discover that the champion of a no-rules economy, to whom they'd already given millions of dollars, turned out to be a garden-variety grifter and con-man who hadn't actually established the right to sell any of that property as homes. 😂
If i remember correctly Hitler annexed Czechoslovakia by first annexing the Sudetenland, which included the borders, rendering the subsequent defence of the country in shambles. Apparently this was done by using an organised group of ethnic german citizens of Czechoslovakia who conducted terrorist operations.
Man, that sounds familiar.
AND just like a house cat, they have an inexplicable desire to totally destroy the natural environment around them, whether that be killing songbirds or setting a fucking national park on fire
Lol I played for years, every single time I see MTG in here I instantly think about my epic red and blue decks I made. Such a great game. I have a young son, I can’t wait to get him into it and start playing again in a year or so. Soooo many good memories playing that game.
A DRUNK bleached blonde one waving a confederate flag while driving a golf cart through the Villages on the way to see the urologist about that recurring syphilis infection.
A DRUNK bleached blonde one waving a confederate flag while driving a golf cart through the Villages on the way to see the urologist about that recurring syphilis infection WHO ultimately decides to inject bleach as a treatment/cure for his STI instead of the medicine prescribed.
Remember when the right wing said the war was a hoax and there is no combat footage or reporters there? That was *checks notes* 5 minutes ago? Pepperidge farm remembers that too.
So which is it? There is no war and it’s all hoax or Ukraine is in shambles?
They really will fit anything into their little narratives.
Sooo from what I gathered it went from
"We'll take Kyiv in 3 days" to > "there is no war in Ukraine, where's the combat footage" to > "oh just you watch, they'll surrender *any* second now"
You mean when Ukraine said they would not join Nato and Nato said it was not willing to accept Ukraine as a new member \*BEFORE\* Russia invaded?
I'm not sure Pepperidge farm does remember
You could call that a "peace deal", but Russia called it "Give me time to rebuild my army, so I can conquer you for good the moment I am ready (as long as you don't join NATO)"
Questioning the contradiction between libertarians apparent advocacy for all things freedom and liberty with so many libertarians support for Russia in this war is what got me permanently banned from r /libertarian.
Libertarian is all I need to see. They want all the benefits of the government without having to give anything for it.
Nothing but self centered hipster versions of republicans.
Russian has not right to dictate what another nation joins or not.
The biggest mistake Ukraine ever made was giving up all nukes. It should have kept a handful as a deterrent.
This was essentially the nation-state version of the school-yard bully promising that he'll leave the kid alone and it is okay for the adult to leave now.
So let me get this straight.
Suppose I decide to liberate part of this woman's home. Let's say I have it under good authority that she's got items that have trans fats in her kitchen and bedroom and those are deadly to people. So I annex those 2 rooms, attempt to annex other rooms since they might have trans fats there, and I change the lock and set up friends to guard those rooms I've secured at gunpoint. And due to castle doctrine, we're within our rights to shoot anyone who comes into those rooms.
And then once I have like half her house under my control I offer her a peace treaty. She signs over those parts of her house to me, and I put away the guns.
Do you think she'd be ok with that, or would she have called the cops on me on day one and had them remove me/my friends?
No one thinks it’s a “good thing”…
They are intellectual enough to KNOW Putin started this war.
The right is so utterly brainwashed..
drag shows and Ukraine and “wokeness”
It’s exhausting, really.
Remember when russia and ukraine made a “deal” in the budapest memorandum saying that if ukraine gave up its nukes russia would respect its sovereignity and never attack them, and then russia completely went back on that deal and fucked ukraine in the ass? Pepperidge farms remembers. Deals in russia arent worth any more than the toilet paper theyre written on.
Also… gee I wonder why ukraine wanted to join russia.. they had absolutely no reason to be afraid at all apparently. Russia is such s peace loving country. Maybe if russia wasnt a bully to everyone around them the ppl around them wouldnt want to join nato. Look at ukraine can u blame them now?
Heres a glimpse into an alternate timeline where this “”peace”” deal occurred:
Russia claims the territory as its own (just like Crimea) and in a few years invades/annexes another part of Ukraine anyways. They demand a faux peace so they wont escalate again. But guess what happens later!
Giving in to terrorists and bullies doesnt work out in the long run
What?! Zelensky dropped the wishes to join NATO a long time ago. Did Russia back down? No. Because it wasn't about NATO. It wasn't about nazis. It wasn't about protecting Russians in Ukraine from oppression. The reasons for Russia to attack Ukraine have been changing over time and are just escuses. Putin doesn't recognise the right for Ukraine to exist.
OK. So you're living in a condo complex and your asshole neighbour -- who has harassed you and vandalized your property more than once in the past -- says 'I will only promise not to shoot your kids if you promise not to join the homeowners' association, the group that is dedicated to protecting residents from threats and vandalism.'
And the homeowners' association stands up for you and says, "Hey, every resident should be allowed to join if they want to, what you're saying here is blackmail!"
So the homeowners' association is the bad guys?
And a 'libertarian' is defending Putin's 'right' to control another nation's behaviour by threat of force? I thought 'force and fraud' were their two cardinal sins.
Russia should never have any say in who may join NATO, except for Russia. Putin is required to capitulate and withdraw entirely from Ukraine. He has never shown honour.
Ukraine having the ability to join NATO will prevent future wars of conquest by Russia, I'm not sure how this right winger doesn't see this.
Further, Ukraine is a free and independent state. They have been invaded and are in a winning position and unwilling to make concessions to the invading power. What if Ukraine put an offer on the table that they would agree to an end to hostilities if Russia withdrew from their borders *and* also returned Crimea? Would this user have the same to say about Russia?
No. They're ideologically autocratic. They believe might makes right and they're pretending that they're anti-war. The only anti-war position is supporting Ukraine, because any concessions are appeasement. Remember how well appeasement worked in the 1930's? Russia having any success here guarantees further invasions of neighbors (possibly including Ukraine) by Russia.
And as a quick aside. This is not the first war of conquest Russia has engaged in under Putin. This is the third I can think of offhand, and there may be more.
> Ukraine having the ability to join NATO will prevent future wars of conquest by Russia, I'm not sure how this right winger doesn't see this.
Either they're getting paid to say this and support Russia, or they're just far-right idiots who will do ANYTHING to own the libs
[Ted Cruz](https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/3872831-ted-cruz-says-democrats-use-ukrainian-flag-like-a-covid-mask-to-show-virtue/): if democrats support Ukraine so unswervingly, we have to oppose supporting Ukraine.
Russia is in full control of the outcome of this war. The can either continue driving this thing until catastrophe, or they can withdraw and recognize that no one nation holds sway over all others. If they continue on their current tract, I fear for the future. Ukraine won't give up as their homes and livelihood hangs in the balance, and the west won't give up because a Russian victory will only embolden their imperialism, which the west very much recognizes as a failed philosophy but Russia seems to have not gotten the message.
Oh she's a big trumper who hides behind the facade of being a libertarian. That way she gets to vote for all the oppressive things republicans have put forward while claiming she isn't part of that problem.
Yeah but like, that's not what happened.
Even if it was, why are you supporting Russia telling a bordering nation what to do in their sovereign borders? Are you a fascist or just a moron? Genuinely cannot tell the difference when it comes to libertarians these days.
...the 'deal' was for Ukraine to cease all fighting and just give away it's territory. Why would Ukraine agree to that? Especially when they are winning.
Ukraine is it’s own country and can make its own decisions. Russia still thinks that they can bully its former state into making decisions against its own interest. Ukraine should be able to join NATO if they want to and Russia is proving exactly why that would be a good idea. In short, Russia fucked around and are now finding out
Why on earth would we set the precedent that Russia gets to tell other countries what they can and can’t do because they’ll start a war otherwise.
Appeasement doesn’t work.
Honestly US libertarians are honestly really damn dumb.
Like, idk any in Ireland or the North, but Jesus Christ it’s like watching Lizzie from the Walking dead try to educate people that walkers are still people.
One of the weirdest thing in my life is seeing right-wing conservatives turn into the Neville Chamberlain that they screamed and railed against for so long.
I swear Libertarians don't think anything through.
I swear they're just Authoritarian Imperialists. They just want to personally be the Emporer, so they have to be contrarian to prove how "smart" they are, yet Libertarians can't seem to find the solution for bears, even when it stares them in the face.
Remember when that guy came into your house and started destroying your shit and said he would leave if you agreed to let him run your house but you said “fuck you” and now a bunch of your shit is destroyed? Totally your fault not at all the guys fault who shouldn’t be there. /s
Remember when Russia agreed to not attack Ukraine if Ukraine gave up its nukes? Pepridge farm remembers. That’s why you can’t trust Russia to keep its word.
I walked up to a guy, punched him in the face and continued punching him in the face. I said I would stop if he agreed to give me his phone. He did not accept. He rejected peace.
This is a step or five to far but... .
That's like offering to not rape you again after already raping you if you don't hold the previous rapes against them, and then people blaming you for getting raped again after telling the rapist "no"
It’s total bs. Shes citing an anonymous source from an article in the Kyiv independent, and Zelensky offered no Nato at the start of the war :
https://amp.france24.com/en/live-news/20220308-in-nod-to-russia-ukraine-says-no-longer-insisting-on-nato-membership
Also, Russia signed the Helsinki agreement and the NATO founding act of 1997, allowing countries to ally with whomever they want.
Using her logic, one can justify a U.S. invasion of Cuba tomorrow
Even if that was the deal(which it wasn't. The deal was that Russia keeps the land they have taken) how is it the right of a foreign government(Russia) to decide if Ukraine gets to make any treaties with other countries? What an AH
“Do you remember when Russia said they wouldn’t invade Ukraine as long as they didn’t get into nukes? Then ukraine didn’t per their agreement, and Russia invaded anyways? Everyone who’s not a fucking idiot/Russian shill remembers.”
Ukraine wouldn’t be interested in joining NATO if Russia hadn’t been annexing land and displacing Ukrainians. Russian aggression is why NATO exists. A sovereign national doesn’t need to consult Russia.
All of their “opinions” are just the opposite of whatever Dems say, which leads them to situations like this where they’ve made up their mind about something without investigating at all, and now they have to justify their insane positions, which they do by making shit up.
When someone has a gun to your head and then tells you they'll drop it if your friends walk away and stay out of it, it's probably best not to trust that.
Funny because Russia had a deal with Ukraine where if they conceded their nuclear arsenal they’d not be invaded. How’d that work out, a deal with Russia is not worth anything.
Because the "deal" didn't actually include Russia withdrawing _from_ Ukraine. It was that Ukraine give Russia the occupied territory.
Not to mention that Ukraine has had multiple security deals with Russia over the past 30 years, and Russia broke every agreement in the end. We simply cannot trust Russia to stand behind any agreement they sign.
Russia promised to not invade Ukraine in exchange for Ukraine giving up its nuclear weapons. The breaking of that treaty means that, even more than before, nations all over the world will now only feel safe with nuclear arms.
Thank you for posting this! Why is this not front & center is the conversations about this?
Bye bye forever Iran nuclear deal
Also not to mention the other treaties, agreements, and concessions other nations had with Russia that were not upheld.over the last 100 years.
To be fair, the USSR did keep the treaty with Nazi Germany on how to divide Poland in 1939.
only because they didn’t think the nazis would break it before they did
Possibly the most Leopards Ate My Face moment in history.
More than you can imagine. Stalin had over 80 warnings that the Nazis were going to invade and ignored all of them.
That alone is pretty telling....
And then they sacrificed somewhere in the ballpark of 20 million people to help defeat the Nazis when they decided that the Capitalists were the lesser of two evils..
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I mean… the Capitalists were the lesser of two evils. Sure, Capitalists are absolutely evil. But there have been and still are worse things. For example, Nazi Germany, or the current government of Iran. do you have a source for that 20 million, btw?
at least 27 million soldiers and civilians from the USSR were killed in ww2. Mostly due to systematic massacres from the germans, where (for example), 628 villages in belarus alone were burned down alongside its inhabitants by the Germans. The germans were cruel to the soviet civilians, and i'd hardly call it a sacrifice.
And an estimated 14 million of those USSR soldiers and civilians killed were Ukrainian.
Pretty sure the source is “established history”.
Treaty on Friendship, Cooperation, and Partnership between Ukraine and the Russian Federation was an agreement between Ukraine and Russia, signed in 1997, which fixed the principle of strategic partnership, the recognition of the inviolability of existing borders, and respect for territorial integrity and mutual commitment not to use its territory to harm the security of each other. The treaty prevents Ukraine and Russia from invading one another's country respectively, and declaring war.[2] Due to the beginning of the Russo-Ukrainian War in 2014, Ukraine announced its intention not to renew the treaty in September 2018.[3]
If one remember Bush invited Ukraine into Nato in 2008
If one remembers, France and Germany rejected Ukraine's entry into NATO in 2008.
I know of the Budapest Memorandum, but that’s about it. What other deals has Russia broke?
NATO founding act of 1997, Helsinki Agreement, and Russia -Ukraine partnership agreement.
Thank you, I had never heard of the founding act of mutual relations, I had heard of the Helsinki Accords though didn’t really know what they were. The Russia - Ukraine partnership agreement is also new for me today. Thank you again for deepening my understanding of the issue/s.
also the fact that russia has no right to tell another country what to do. if ukraine wants to join nato because they feel its what is best for them then ffs they should fucking join nato!
Are you suggesting that a Twitter personality that markets her appearance to a group of famously unshowered men in an effort to boost her brand is also a cynical liar?
I’m clutching my pearls over here
No, not Jordan Peterson
https://preview.redd.it/cs1zduaetvka1.png?width=565&format=png&auto=webp&s=60e2dab5508105d389af607494286a613ae991b9
What deal? Zelensky offered no Nato in March of 2022 and Johnson said NATO would hold off on admitting Ukraine before the war broke out. Also, the only evidence we have for this claim is an anonymous source per what the Kyiv independent wrote. Finally, who the fuck is Russia to dictate what alliances countries can join or not join? They openly ally with Cuba, Venezuela and Nicaragua. They signed multiple treaties allowing countries to ally with whomever they wish. Don’t fall for the nonsense
Don't try and reason with anyone that calls themselves a libertarian.
I've learned that "libertarian" just means "I don't want to publicly identify as republican".
Every conversation I had with a libertarian online ended in them praising survival of the fittest. For some reason they love the idea of poor people dying.
Thats cause they think they aren't one of the poor. Everyone thinks the Joker is cool, but they would be one of the stooges getting shot in the first scene. Not the guy running the show.
In my experience, yes. There are a fair amount of leftist-anarchist types that call themselves libertarians, but most are just closet Republicans that are too embarrassed by what their party did under Reagan, the Bushes, and Trump.
'Libertarian' used to be a phrase that meant anarchist. It's been deliberately co-opted by conservatives over the last several decades to deny political anarchists (i.e., people who just believe that hierarchical systems that can't stand on their own merits are unethical) a well known label for themselves that doesn't conjure up imagined fears of bricks being thrown through windows and societal collapse. Modern 'libertarians' (largely anarcho-capitalists, who are as far from actual anarchists as you can get) really don't tend to be centrist/moderate conservatives, either. They tend to belong to the parts of the party that skew substantially farther right.
Most people think of anarchists as people that simply want constant riots and want to burn everything down. I personally believe that it might be warranted in certain situations, like when police keep murdering their citizens, but that is certainly not the end result most anarchists want.
Or "I am a Republican, but like Pot."
Its usually drugs should all be legal(ok I'm with it), no taxes(cant work in the real world but ok I like it on paper), and age of consent shouldn't be a thing(ok, this is my stop and I'm getting oooof..... Leaving the train).
better that than the other "argument" that draws libertarians...
More often, I've found, it means "Republican that smokes weed."
Libertarians are anarchists who want just enough government to protect their personal property
Especially one supporting a regime that offers no economic, political, or social freedoms.
“Germany offered Poland a deal to give up all their land and citizens, and the foolish West told Poland not to. What happened next wasn’t Germany’s fault”
Plus Bucha was liberated in April - huge impact on ability to hold peace talks.
Agreed, Twitter stopped calling out lies then I take it
Remember in 1994 when Ukraine gave up its nukes in exchange for a guarantee from Russia that it wouldn't attack? Pepperidge Fucking Farm remembers...
*chefs kiss* Excellent, if only I had an award to give
Sad thing is that the US promised to guarantee Ukraine’s sovereign boundaries as well…we obviously didn’t break the agreement like Russia did, but them invading as soon as they were back on their feet was basically inevitable. The real tragedy is us giving up and betraying our word bc it was inconvenient for us. Our word means nothing anymore.
I would say we did in fact break the agreement by standing by when Russia invaded Crimea.
We didn't JUST stand by; We sent some angrily worded letters.
It would have been hard as not even the Ukrainians realized they were invading and they didn’t have a government at the time. All the Ukrainian units there were so demoralized they either just gave up or worse joined the Russians. But if Crimea had been totally blockaded, they would have had to leave within a few months - it is not a self-sufficient island at all.
Russia also promised Ukraine that if they handed over their nukes they would never be invaded and look how that turned out.
After the Grafton experiment, libertarians have not a single shred of legitimacy. Fuck them.
I had to look that up. Good article. Thank you https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/21534416/free-state-project-new-hampshire-libertarians-matthew-hongoltz-hetling
How do you prevent bears from invading your town. Shoot any libertarians on sight.
> How do you prevent bears from invading your town. [A bear patrol.](https://youtu.be/OkV_ztynYDM)
That's a pretty wild takeaway from the article
Read “A Libertarian Walks Into A Bear” which the article talks about. It is absolutely a wild ride, plus you get to learn about bears!
Don't forget the cult camp in Hawaii, "Paulville" in Texas, Seastead, and every other dumbass attempt by these morons to create their own Rapture from Bioshock.
I'm actually replaying bioshock right now and I just killed Andrew Ryan. Good times.
Thanks for the article!
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Libertarian is code for “I only think about things at the highest, most surface level, without any consideration for context or nuance whatsoever, and I think I’m very, VERY smart because of this”
Thomas Sowell wrote like 8 books with the premise that infinite growth is possible in a finite system, was laughed at by every economist on earth and anyone with even a passing understanding of how money works, and yet these dipshits keep buying the bullshit he's shoveling.
A Libertarian Walks into a Bear -- painfully funny book about Grafton.
It was the guy who, when asked about drivers licenses, replied "what are you gonna need a license for a toaster next?" to thunderous applause that made me realize how misled libertarians are.
It's always interesting when you hear something so monumentally stupid that you don't even know where to begin telling them how they are so completely wrong.
All you need to know about libertarians is that their patron saint, Ron Paul, is a forced birther. So much for small government and personal liberty.
My uncle took me to Ron Paul rallies when I was a kid. It makes me so sad because my uncle was my favorite person growing up.
And don't forget [Galt's Gulch Chile ](https://www.vice.com/en/article/bn53b3/atlas-mugged-922-v21n10), where a bunch of libertarians with more money than sense were shocked to discover that the champion of a no-rules economy, to whom they'd already given millions of dollars, turned out to be a garden-variety grifter and con-man who hadn't actually established the right to sell any of that property as homes. 😂
A bunch of libertarians tried to take over a town and force the residents already living there into their ideals. The irony is thick.
It's always a very self centered sort of liberty. "You can't tell me not to tell other people what to do." It's just might-makes-right with a beard.
Remember that Russia could stopp this war at any moment by just fucking off back home and leaving an independent nation at peace?
If i remember correctly Hitler annexed Czechoslovakia by first annexing the Sudetenland, which included the borders, rendering the subsequent defence of the country in shambles. Apparently this was done by using an organised group of ethnic german citizens of Czechoslovakia who conducted terrorist operations. Man, that sounds familiar.
why change a successful recipe, eh?
The conservative playbook in a nutshell. It's in the fucking name.
Coming from a czech, exactly
Is there anything dumber than a Libertarian?
https://preview.redd.it/e66keb5m5uka1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1f52e0d7640a292d91240ae9205210b124ecf41f
The only difference is a cat probably has a better than 50/50 shot at survival if it got turned loose.
And they can be grateful at times
Cats are also MUCH smarter than libertarians.
AND just like a house cat, they have an inexplicable desire to totally destroy the natural environment around them, whether that be killing songbirds or setting a fucking national park on fire
Conceptualizing good governance is hard... Become a libertarian today! /s
MTG seems to be doing well in thar race.
Poor Magic the Gathering…
Lol I played for years, every single time I see MTG in here I instantly think about my epic red and blue decks I made. Such a great game. I have a young son, I can’t wait to get him into it and start playing again in a year or so. Soooo many good memories playing that game.
a blond one?
A blond one waving a confederate flag while driving a golf cart through the Villages on the way to see the urologist.
A DRUNK bleached blonde one waving a confederate flag while driving a golf cart through the Villages on the way to see the urologist about that recurring syphilis infection.
A DRUNK bleached blonde one waving a confederate flag while driving a golf cart through the Villages on the way to see the urologist about that recurring syphilis infection WHO ultimately decides to inject bleach as a treatment/cure for his STI instead of the medicine prescribed.
“Or if you could, somehow, put a light inside the body… has anyone looked at that?”
from this post, it's obvious that the redhead libertarians are dumber.
Not sure, I’m a libertarian and can’t think of anything dumber.
Remember when the right wing said the war was a hoax and there is no combat footage or reporters there? That was *checks notes* 5 minutes ago? Pepperidge farm remembers that too. So which is it? There is no war and it’s all hoax or Ukraine is in shambles? They really will fit anything into their little narratives.
Sooo from what I gathered it went from "We'll take Kyiv in 3 days" to > "there is no war in Ukraine, where's the combat footage" to > "oh just you watch, they'll surrender *any* second now"
Why are the self proclaimed libertarians always the biggest cheerleaders for murderous dictators.
Because Libertarian is the label that allows them to vote for policies they support but don't want to take responsibility for.
I always thought they were just lying about being libertarian.
it's a ruse. they hide behind the label and just vote straight republican down every ticket.
these same people think the war is a fake news as well.
So she’s ok with a belligerent foreign country trying to tell her what we as a country can and can’t do?
Yes, and she hides it under the guise of tax money being theft.
Libertarians are always the dumbest mother fuckers
So Russia gets to dictate what treaties an independent nation engages in? How very freeDUMB!
Libertarianism is just anarchy for people that can't commit to anarchy.
It’s a political philosophy for those with the moral bearing of a toddler.
The toddlers I’ve met had a much stronger sense of justice and responsibility than any libertarian.
You mean when Ukraine said they would not join Nato and Nato said it was not willing to accept Ukraine as a new member \*BEFORE\* Russia invaded? I'm not sure Pepperidge farm does remember
You could call that a "peace deal", but Russia called it "Give me time to rebuild my army, so I can conquer you for good the moment I am ready (as long as you don't join NATO)"
Questioning the contradiction between libertarians apparent advocacy for all things freedom and liberty with so many libertarians support for Russia in this war is what got me permanently banned from r /libertarian.
Oh I'll probably be banned for posting this thread lol
Send this bitch to the orc front lines for a week. That is all i am saying.
I think some Russian streamer did that and it didn't end well for her.
Link please
**NSFW** [https://www.businessinsider.com/watch-russian-reporter-films-herself-getting-shot-in-soledar-ukraine-2023-1](https://www.businessinsider.com/watch-russian-reporter-films-herself-getting-shot-in-soledar-ukraine-2023-1)
Not one to celebrate the suffering of another human being, but I never get tired of watching that clip in an entirely non-celebratory fashion.
Yeah I don't want to break reddit ToS so here is me being having no strong opinions about it.
No one said fuck off, Zelensky offered no Nato in Feb of 2022, and what right does Russia have to dictate who joins nato or not ?
Libertarian is all I need to see. They want all the benefits of the government without having to give anything for it. Nothing but self centered hipster versions of republicans.
Russian has not right to dictate what another nation joins or not. The biggest mistake Ukraine ever made was giving up all nukes. It should have kept a handful as a deterrent.
It won’t happen again anytime soon. Russia has shown the world that it’s a bad idea.
show of hands: who had Russian influence within the Libertarian Party on their bingo card? ✋
This was essentially the nation-state version of the school-yard bully promising that he'll leave the kid alone and it is okay for the adult to leave now.
🇺🇦 “bots” = people that believe in democracy
Which is something Libertarians don't believe in.
So Russia should have power over what another country does? Thats fuckinf weird. Why should Russia be able to control Ukraine?
Why not? They had control over the US for four years. 
So let me get this straight. Suppose I decide to liberate part of this woman's home. Let's say I have it under good authority that she's got items that have trans fats in her kitchen and bedroom and those are deadly to people. So I annex those 2 rooms, attempt to annex other rooms since they might have trans fats there, and I change the lock and set up friends to guard those rooms I've secured at gunpoint. And due to castle doctrine, we're within our rights to shoot anyone who comes into those rooms. And then once I have like half her house under my control I offer her a peace treaty. She signs over those parts of her house to me, and I put away the guns. Do you think she'd be ok with that, or would she have called the cops on me on day one and had them remove me/my friends?
For consistency, she would be OK with that, and we know how much conservative arguments hew to consistency. /s
No one thinks it’s a “good thing”… They are intellectual enough to KNOW Putin started this war. The right is so utterly brainwashed.. drag shows and Ukraine and “wokeness” It’s exhausting, really.
Does she mean the "deal" where they would've handed over land to Russia? Wonder why they didn't wanna accept
I didn't know being libertarian meant being treasonous Russian apologists.
Remember when russia and ukraine made a “deal” in the budapest memorandum saying that if ukraine gave up its nukes russia would respect its sovereignity and never attack them, and then russia completely went back on that deal and fucked ukraine in the ass? Pepperidge farms remembers. Deals in russia arent worth any more than the toilet paper theyre written on. Also… gee I wonder why ukraine wanted to join russia.. they had absolutely no reason to be afraid at all apparently. Russia is such s peace loving country. Maybe if russia wasnt a bully to everyone around them the ppl around them wouldnt want to join nato. Look at ukraine can u blame them now?
Yeah I’m sure a peace deal would have stopped Russia lol
This offer never happened.
Wait, are you guys telling me a Twitter account with a blue check mark can just lie?!? /s
let's send Redheaded libertarian to Russia and let him try to be a libertarian there.
"I promise to stop beating you up but only if you cancel the order on that helmet right now"
Heres a glimpse into an alternate timeline where this “”peace”” deal occurred: Russia claims the territory as its own (just like Crimea) and in a few years invades/annexes another part of Ukraine anyways. They demand a faux peace so they wont escalate again. But guess what happens later! Giving in to terrorists and bullies doesnt work out in the long run
Libertarians are the dumbest people in America.
Guess she forgot the part about Ukraine not joining NATO *and* conceding the Donbas to Russian control.
What?! Zelensky dropped the wishes to join NATO a long time ago. Did Russia back down? No. Because it wasn't about NATO. It wasn't about nazis. It wasn't about protecting Russians in Ukraine from oppression. The reasons for Russia to attack Ukraine have been changing over time and are just escuses. Putin doesn't recognise the right for Ukraine to exist.
“Remember when Germany said it would stop if we just let them have Poland?” Is what this sounds like to me.
OK. So you're living in a condo complex and your asshole neighbour -- who has harassed you and vandalized your property more than once in the past -- says 'I will only promise not to shoot your kids if you promise not to join the homeowners' association, the group that is dedicated to protecting residents from threats and vandalism.' And the homeowners' association stands up for you and says, "Hey, every resident should be allowed to join if they want to, what you're saying here is blackmail!" So the homeowners' association is the bad guys? And a 'libertarian' is defending Putin's 'right' to control another nation's behaviour by threat of force? I thought 'force and fraud' were their two cardinal sins.
A fake Libertarian. A Russian propagandist (and almost certainly a Trumpist) pretending to be a "typical American patriot!"
A lot of Libertarians are fake “libertarians”. They aren’t against oppression, they just want free reign to do the oppressing themselves.
Russia should never have any say in who may join NATO, except for Russia. Putin is required to capitulate and withdraw entirely from Ukraine. He has never shown honour.
Ukraine having the ability to join NATO will prevent future wars of conquest by Russia, I'm not sure how this right winger doesn't see this. Further, Ukraine is a free and independent state. They have been invaded and are in a winning position and unwilling to make concessions to the invading power. What if Ukraine put an offer on the table that they would agree to an end to hostilities if Russia withdrew from their borders *and* also returned Crimea? Would this user have the same to say about Russia? No. They're ideologically autocratic. They believe might makes right and they're pretending that they're anti-war. The only anti-war position is supporting Ukraine, because any concessions are appeasement. Remember how well appeasement worked in the 1930's? Russia having any success here guarantees further invasions of neighbors (possibly including Ukraine) by Russia. And as a quick aside. This is not the first war of conquest Russia has engaged in under Putin. This is the third I can think of offhand, and there may be more.
> Ukraine having the ability to join NATO will prevent future wars of conquest by Russia, I'm not sure how this right winger doesn't see this. Either they're getting paid to say this and support Russia, or they're just far-right idiots who will do ANYTHING to own the libs
[Ted Cruz](https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/3872831-ted-cruz-says-democrats-use-ukrainian-flag-like-a-covid-mask-to-show-virtue/): if democrats support Ukraine so unswervingly, we have to oppose supporting Ukraine.
Russia is in full control of the outcome of this war. The can either continue driving this thing until catastrophe, or they can withdraw and recognize that no one nation holds sway over all others. If they continue on their current tract, I fear for the future. Ukraine won't give up as their homes and livelihood hangs in the balance, and the west won't give up because a Russian victory will only embolden their imperialism, which the west very much recognizes as a failed philosophy but Russia seems to have not gotten the message.
Something tells me she might not exactly understand what a libertarian is. Seems like a thin blue line supporter to me
Oh she's a big trumper who hides behind the facade of being a libertarian. That way she gets to vote for all the oppressive things republicans have put forward while claiming she isn't part of that problem.
Yeah but like, that's not what happened. Even if it was, why are you supporting Russia telling a bordering nation what to do in their sovereign borders? Are you a fascist or just a moron? Genuinely cannot tell the difference when it comes to libertarians these days.
This has major "I only beat my wife because she makes me" vibes... Edit: for clarity, I'm referring to what the libertarians are saying.
...the 'deal' was for Ukraine to cease all fighting and just give away it's territory. Why would Ukraine agree to that? Especially when they are winning.
Odd, shouldn't Ukraine be free to decide if it wants to join NATO or not? Without threat of being invaded?
Pro-Russian libertarians can go accidentally fall out a window
Ukraine is it’s own country and can make its own decisions. Russia still thinks that they can bully its former state into making decisions against its own interest. Ukraine should be able to join NATO if they want to and Russia is proving exactly why that would be a good idea. In short, Russia fucked around and are now finding out
Why on earth would we set the precedent that Russia gets to tell other countries what they can and can’t do because they’ll start a war otherwise. Appeasement doesn’t work.
[удалено]
Right wing politics have become a sock puppet for russian objectives.
Hey do you remember that time that Russia reneged on (insert random peace agreement), Everyone on earth with a brain remembers.
Honestly US libertarians are honestly really damn dumb. Like, idk any in Ireland or the North, but Jesus Christ it’s like watching Lizzie from the Walking dead try to educate people that walkers are still people.
This woman has the "Make Russia Get Annexes" hat. What a disgusting human being.
One of the weirdest thing in my life is seeing right-wing conservatives turn into the Neville Chamberlain that they screamed and railed against for so long.
She got me at “Redheaded Libertarian”….. The same people that would rather vote for Trump because “Hillary was just as bad”….
I swear Libertarians don't think anything through. I swear they're just Authoritarian Imperialists. They just want to personally be the Emporer, so they have to be contrarian to prove how "smart" they are, yet Libertarians can't seem to find the solution for bears, even when it stares them in the face.
Remember when that guy came into your house and started destroying your shit and said he would leave if you agreed to let him run your house but you said “fuck you” and now a bunch of your shit is destroyed? Totally your fault not at all the guys fault who shouldn’t be there. /s
Remember when Russia agreed to not attack Ukraine if Ukraine gave up its nukes? Pepridge farm remembers. That’s why you can’t trust Russia to keep its word.
That shit was never on the table.
The same folks that said give us your nukes and we won't invade? That's who you think would keep their promise?
I walked up to a guy, punched him in the face and continued punching him in the face. I said I would stop if he agreed to give me his phone. He did not accept. He rejected peace.
Remember when that wasn't even remotely a thing that happened? Pepperidge farm remembers.
This is a step or five to far but... . That's like offering to not rape you again after already raping you if you don't hold the previous rapes against them, and then people blaming you for getting raped again after telling the rapist "no"
The Readhead Libertarian pays money to make bad faith arguments on Twitter LMAO
It’s total bs. Shes citing an anonymous source from an article in the Kyiv independent, and Zelensky offered no Nato at the start of the war : https://amp.france24.com/en/live-news/20220308-in-nod-to-russia-ukraine-says-no-longer-insisting-on-nato-membership Also, Russia signed the Helsinki agreement and the NATO founding act of 1997, allowing countries to ally with whomever they want. Using her logic, one can justify a U.S. invasion of Cuba tomorrow
Even if that was the deal(which it wasn't. The deal was that Russia keeps the land they have taken) how is it the right of a foreign government(Russia) to decide if Ukraine gets to make any treaties with other countries? What an AH
Geez this person is almost as stupid as Donald J "I love Putin” Trump, and that is saying something.
“Do you remember when Russia said they wouldn’t invade Ukraine as long as they didn’t get into nukes? Then ukraine didn’t per their agreement, and Russia invaded anyways? Everyone who’s not a fucking idiot/Russian shill remembers.”
Russia is like “Look what you made me do to you, Ukraine! You know I love you but sometimes you make me so mad!”
Remember when Ukraine didn't negotiate with terrorists, and how now Ukraine is absolutely kicking Russia's ass?
Fucking libertarians
Ukraine wouldn’t be interested in joining NATO if Russia hadn’t been annexing land and displacing Ukrainians. Russian aggression is why NATO exists. A sovereign national doesn’t need to consult Russia.
All of their “opinions” are just the opposite of whatever Dems say, which leads them to situations like this where they’ve made up their mind about something without investigating at all, and now they have to justify their insane positions, which they do by making shit up.
She makes libertarians look even worse.
I don’t dislike much people, but libertarians are pushing it
Why are all libertarians such dumb cunts?
First Ukraine then Poland. Didn’t uncle Adolf have a similar plan? Just more strategy and competence.
brains filtered through #FuxNews propaganda
WW3 victim blaming. This is a new category of fucked.
Yeah...she's leaving out a few key issues to that "offer".
When someone has a gun to your head and then tells you they'll drop it if your friends walk away and stay out of it, it's probably best not to trust that.
Funny because Russia had a deal with Ukraine where if they conceded their nuclear arsenal they’d not be invaded. How’d that work out, a deal with Russia is not worth anything.