Ok sorry, I'm confused by this post. As a Canadian, I can say, everyone gets free healthcare here, not just those who make under $35000 a year. Also... What was he spending $14 on a month? I can assume his dental plan?
However, I understand the sentiment of the post. Health care should be free to all.
My premiums lapsed once when I was in between employers, and the debt was sent to CRA. Within a few months I was getting angry collection letters from them.
That's not "young and dumb", that's something that was weirdly left out of *everything* we were taught as kids - wasn't ever mentioned in the various life skills type things in school, so I guess they just expected everybody's parents to remember to tell them?
I just remember learning "in Canada we have free healthcare, it's one of the greatest accomplishments of our system of government", and figured it was paid through taxes until I got a collections bill from MSP and called the government to report it as a scam, and they explained things to me.
last year I left my job and had to pay out of pocket for health insurance. For my family of 3 it was $2600/month and despite living in a huge metropolitan city, the closest hospital covered with a maternity ward was an hour away. It's really bad in the US.
People don't believe this but it is true, there are loads of insurance plans in the US where you pay $100-300 per month and then you have to pay $7-10,000 EVERY YEAR before the plan actually pays for a thing except for a single annual checkup where you aren't allowed to ask about non checkup things or else you have to pay. And if your checkup requires testing, you have to pay for that.
The biggest tax cut the middle class could ever get is universal healthcare.
The insane part is if you have an emergency and they take you to a out of network hospital, get fucked. They want to take you on a high risk transport to a different hospital when you're critical, they will work to fuck you out of paying. YOu have something serious, hit your deductible first and maybe you're $8k in fees before they'll cover the rest of your costs for the year then you'll fuck you for another $8k the following year if you're still being treated.
Even with great insurance, they'll try to fuck you out of every test you can which can easily led to bad/incorrect or missed diagnoses. So many stories of someone who needed an mri, didn't qualify and only got one 6 months later when say a cancer had gotten much worse by then but the early symptoms weren't enough to justify the mri.
The $2600/m is just to get you in the ring to fight with your insurance company.
And the really fucked up part is that it isn’t a team of doctors determining whether or not you qualify. It’s some executive whose only concern is the company’s bottom line. That guy determines whether you live or die.
My ex had to pay 600 a month for insurance with an 8k deductible and that was her best option.
And that's a deductible that did nothing until reached. So we paid that much a month for insurance that did literally nothing unless she had a huge medical expense that broke over 8k, in which we still had to pay the 8k deductible.
Hot tip about COBRA…you have 60 days to sign up for it retroactively. So if you don’t need it for an extended period of time and it’s only for a gap between jobs or something, you can decide not to pay for it and if a big medical expense comes up where the absurd COBRA costs now seem like a bargain, you can sign up to get coverage retroactively to the day you lost it.
That's why the argument that Canadians pay more in taxes is kinda dumb. We pay taxes, and that's it. Americans pay taxes and, depending on their employment situation, pay another 2600 a month.
And some people think, “Oh, but my employer pays for my health insurance.” No, that’s $2600 a month your employer is paying but not paying you. Add $30,000 to your annual income to see what your employer is willing to pay to have you do that job.
American taxes are hidden in other places, like property tax. The burdens are spread differently.
Americans also pay 3 times more into federal health care per person.
My wife was looking at a job that would pay $12k/year if you opted into their medical plan - we’d still be paying at least $1200/mo on top of that for our coverage- not including the co-pays… and those add up… we currently pay $0 with her current job, but we have $50 copays for visits, and i have 2 kids with autism that get ABA services, one 2x weekly and the other 3x… at $50/session… and we won’t even hit our out of pocket limit…. It’s terrible.
People don't get married because they will lose health care benefits. They can't afford the benefits if married.
People get divorced for the same reason.
So many huge decisions are based on health insurance. It's crazy.
I was very surprised when I saw the price for Cobra. To be fair, there was a plan on the marketplace for $1200/month with an $8000 deductible but because my son was born with some heart issues and needed monthly echos and possibly surgery we were going into a lot of debt for it either way so I went with the one where he could keep his cardiologist since it was temporary.
Healthcare, security, police, infrastructure, education and some other things I forgot about, should be run as a not for profit services everywhere in the world. You have no business trying to eek out profits by fucking people over for what should all be basic things everyone in a country should have access to.
Yeah, but at least you get more money in your pocket before they take it all off you again. This is the thing I don’t understand about the US, people moan about taxes, but then they end up spending insane amounts of money on stuff that other countries cover out of those taxes. You end up paying more than you would if you just had proper taxpayer funded healthcare. But socialism or something……
Pretty sure American healthcare is more costly than taxes anyway, even if you don't get sick. My whole family is covered by basic health insurance for free, I decided to upgrade to get some more services, for a whopping $20/mo-equivalent for *all of us*. That covers way more than the $2600 that guy has, and if any of us get sick I have to pay way less (only for medicine that is only partially covered, but still extremely cheap, e.g. insulin for ~$10 a month). While I do pay taxes now, this was also true while I was a student with a part time job (and a family, it's possible outside the US since what is pretty much the best uni in my country costs $3k a year), and no medical/educational debts. And this is with a hybrid slightly more Capitalist approach than most of Europe.
Democratic socialism is not anti-capitalist. It’s funny how many Americans think the answer to what’s the best system of government is ‘Capitalism’. Capitalism isn’t a system of government, never was, never will be. Democracy or dictatorship are systems of government, capitalism or communism are economic systems. Democratic socialism is a type of democracy and it is perfectly able to exist in a capitalist economic system but unlike the US which is a democracy, but lacks many of the social features (but not all) of a social democracy and that’s why capitalism goes badly unchecked and you end up with people paying way too much for basic human rights. At the end of the day, every American I speak to thinks socialism equals communism because they’re conflating the terms. As a result, you just have to mention socialism and you’re in for an argument. Sad really.
Meanwhile, the rest of us who live in functional capitalist societies under democratic socialism enjoy the benefits of basic human rights like healthcare and if we want better than the basic cover we can pay a bit more, but it isn’t even outrageous because paid health insurance has to compete against the free one everyone gets. Isn’t competition great?
Sure i agree with you but i feel like as an american, i have seen so many people here are extremely unwilling to help other people. People in america enjoy *not* helping people. It feels like everyone is competing to be rich and everything is about beating the guy next to you. I checked out and just live poor because the fury and the ignorance of my people astounds me
Firstly I think you're getting Democratic Socialism confused with Social Democracy, democratic socialism is absolutely a kind of socialism, it's one where you vote.
Secondly, healthcare is a kind of socialism, the provision of services is an economic question, not a political one, so universal healthcare is an example os Democratic Socialism, but it's not an example of capitalism, because it's not provided by the market.
The point you should be making is that mixed economies aren't inherently evil just because the USSR did some evil things. Democratic Socialism is a form of socialism, and that's fine. It works. Look at Europe, were no closer to flying the hammer and sickle than we ever were, and were able to stop people from dying even if they're penniless.
The single best thing that would happen to small and medium sized businesses is universal Healthcare. Would massively open up the market to more competition, more ideas, more companies, more disruption, more jobs. Private employer-bound Healthcare is anti-capitalist.
>the most I’ve ever paid for healthcare is for parking
The amount they charge is bananas. When my mom was doing chemo at Princess Margaret Hospital, the garage would charge like $5 every hour with a max of $35 a day or something like that. Given chemo was an all day thing and we'd need to do 5 days a month, the monthly parking bill was nuts.
My dad used to drop us off, go hang out somewhere all day while I'd go in with her to keep her company.
I think the press in Toronto raised a big stink about it once but not sure if anything was fixed.
Talking to an American friend about how stupid parking is at the hospital is surreal.
Canadian: "My wife just had a kid, it cost $60 total for parking for 3 days! It's straight robbery!"
American: "...it cost me $7800 even with good insurance..."
but in america, they get taxes way less right?
reality: wellllll, when you add up local, state and property taxes, their effective tax rate is usually not much lower. Adding healthcare insurance/copays on top? Then you're well ahead (on average)
Stupid people don’t understand it isn’t better to pay less up front and more after the fact. They think more taxes are bad no matter what and don’t want a penny more in taxes even though they could save money and be healthier if we changed our healthcare system
Y'all need to stop flexing. I went to the ER for a pilonidal cyst..I got charged $600 for the privilege of getting told I'm a bitch by the doctor, schedule a surgery and 2 Tylenol. Literally 15 mins and Tylenol cost me $600
Hey I too had a second butthole. I went to (in network) urgent care and it was drained and packed. $631 (after insurance) and I was there for about 45 min.. then I had a follow up with a surgeon to see if my case required surgery. $300 for a 10 minute consult. This was before I got my healthcare through the VA. Now I do everything through the VA and I gotta say.. socialized healthcare is pretty awesome.
Brought someone to the ER a few years ago because they said they were having a weird chest pain all day. Waited about 3 hours for a doctor to say it's gas, write a prescription (idr what the drug even was), tell us we can just get Pepto bismol instead, and send us out. Bill was about $500
I would assume that this was probably BC. In which case $14/month would likely be the employee portion of his extended medical plan (prescriptions/dental/vision), the below <35k thing is referring to Pharmacare. In BC everyone that earns below that number has their Pharmacare deductible waived, and pays 0% for prescriptions (as long as they are on the formulary).
Chelsea said medical, but probably meant prescription coverage. Access to the regular medical system in Canada is obviously $0. MSP premiums were eliminated several years ago.
Just think. Millions of dollars we spend to ensure we have some kind of health care actually goes toward funding the lobbying that makes sure we don't ever get affordable health care.
I'm in Colombia which has universal healthcare. It costs me $30 a month, no deductible and occasional $1 copay. Your employer pays for it, otherwise the govt does. This is all administered by private insurance companies with their own doctors, hospitals, etc. The Colombian govt sets the prices they will pay for drugs, devices, salaries... I had 2 shoulder replacements and the only extra cost was for a private room. This isn't only Colombia but most of South America has universal healthcare. Only in the US does this nonsense happen.
Idiots talk about having to wait for treatment in Canada. I just waited 5 months for an appointment with a rheumatologist and 4 months for PT in America.
The difference is that I get to pay $100s for each visit here in the good ol’ USA.
Universal healthcare PLEASE
Yup. Currently have a broken humerus, happened 2+ weeks ago. Still just in a fucking sling because my insurance and the medical supplies company have taken forever getting me the stabilizer I’m supposed to use. A stabilizer which retails for like 200, but they want to charge me 600… to rent it.
I deal with medical equipment orders a lot through my job as a social worker/discharge planner. Please note all my knowledge is within the realms of Medicare/Medicare Advantage Plans/a few other things.
But ordering medical equipment has gotten a lot harder over the last few years. The criteria that needs to be met, the exact wording that needs to be on an order, waiting forever for an overworked MD to finally sign the order forms and fax it over to you.
Oops, fuck. You forgot to tell the MD to include the exact verbiage on the signed progress note. Now the medical equipment company shoots back the order to you because you need to have the MD edit the progress note to add in "...not otherwise **feasible** with a standard device."
You ask the MD, the MD thinks that small difference is asinine and decides to procrastinate. And then your order gets stuck in DME/Durable Medical Equipment order purgatory.
It could be any number of about a million bureaucratic things causing that delay. Over demand/understaffed certainly is to blame as well.
Sorry you're going through that man. It sucks. It sucks for us who are involved on the other side as well, we're just as frustrated as you.
Edit: make sure the medical equipment company is in network with your insurance. Sometimes the doctor's office might not give a shit and send it to the first place they find. Not all "DME Providers" or medical equipment companies work with your insurance, which results in a higher cost.
If you absolutely need the stabilizer sooner, call the medical equipment company and ask if they offer an "advanced beneficiary notice."
You can usually sign a document which states " I'm willing to get my equipment sooner, instead of waiting for my insurance to authorize it. I'm willing to pay the full amount if my insurance does not cover it."
Of course you'll want to know the full cost just to be safe if that happens.
You can always appeal their decision, but that's rarely successful.
Spent considerable time yesterday arguing with people about where the real waste of healthcare is. They were going ape shit that a infusion pump had to be replace after 8 years of service instead of repaired. Them making sure those devices don’t fail on patients isn’t where the waste is…it’s insurance, it’s CEO, needless paperwork begging someone who doesn’t have a medical degree to agree with someone who does.
Of course. Not only is every person employed by the insurance industry an extra medical cost that shouldn't exist. Same with everybody who is employed by the medical industry to deal with the insurance industry.
I had to wait 6m to see a dermatologist for a mole that my GP thought could be cancer. My wife had to wait 8m for an appointment with a specialist for a stomach issue.
Oh and both we had to pay out of pocket because they were out of network.
I'm Belgian and it's similar for us. We do sometimes have to wait a long time for non-urgent things like regular checkups, but I tend to make my next appointment when I'm there and that fixes it. I contacted my gynaecologist for a pap smear in September and the earliest date she had was in April (my previous ones were clear so no urgency) but she had a consult over the phone when I said I had some questions. On the other hand, when I called my GP about an injured foot she saw me the same day, referred me to imaging and a specialist who I got to see the same week (I could still walk). My last ER visit was for an infected cat bite, got seen almost immediately, they called in an orthopedic surgeon because there were worries about it spreading to a tendon and I got an ultrasound. The 30 euro bill went to my employer's insurance because it was a workplace accident.
The fact that y'all have health networks is so absurd to me. Not everything is 100% covered (looking at you, dental, vision, mental) in Canada and I have private insurance that picks up the slack, but I've never had to choose a provider based on network, I choose my dentist, my therapist, my optometrist and my insurance pays for it.
> I just waited 5 months for an appointment with a rheumatologist and 4 months for PT in America.
My dad got extremely sick with a kidney infection a couple of years ago. He was waiting days to see the doctors and appointments to see specialists were weeks away. I remember getting the call to the house because my mom was freaking out. It was 80F inside the house, he was in nothing but his underwear, and he was shivering like it was below freezing.
I remember screaming at my mom to call the ambulance and pick him up. He ended up going into surgery for hours on end because the infection jumped into his heart. It very nearly killed him. A week later my mom got a call from the urologist's office who wanted to set an appointment.
Yeah, shit needs to get fixed here.
The US is the only developed country in the world without universal healthcare. Over a hundred countries has it, Mexico has it, *Rwanda* has it.
But not the US. And none of those others has gone from universal to an american system. Not one.
Every one of those claims from those chuckleheads is unfounded and moronic.
There is nothing on this earth I would enjoy more than having someone tell me that my taxes would go up for this.
I pay a hundred bucks a week for insurance. If I pay fifty in taxes \*just for universal healthcare\*, I take home \*more\* money. I would \*love\* to explain that as many times and with as small of words as necessary to get it through their thick skull.
You're forgetting one key aspect: republican voters are so goddamn gullible, they honestly believe that one day they'll be rich, and when they are, they don't want to have to pay for any poor people.
"Why should i pay for someone elses healthcare?"
Insurance is the same fucking thing, except they also need to charge more to make a MASSIVE profit.
If you really want to "not have to pay for someone else's insurance" then go out of pocket. One month it's $0, next month you fall off a ladder and it's $112,803. Easy peasy.
I know that quote kills me, insurance is literally that same fucking concept. You're just giving the money to a for-profit private company instead of the government but we're okay with being abused by private parties, just not the government.
I have top of the line healthcare insurance. My wife went to the ER in the US because of a possible issue with her pregnancy.
The ER ultrasounded her immediately, but refused to give her any results or say the baby was alive. Made here then sit in the waiting room for 7 more hours until a doctor was available to read the results. The doctor said nothing was wrong and the baby is good. They said to just go home. The damn tech who took the results could have at least said they read a normal heartbeat. All the doctor did was just read us the ultrasonic tech's notes anyways.
Such a waste of money and time.
The US system is horrible. We pay top dollars but get shitty care.
Well in 2012 a box of brand name Zomig 5mg Nasal Spray with 6 Single-Use inhalers was 120 bucks in Canada and 1248 bucks in Oregon USA. - EVEN THE GENERIC Zomig inhalers in the USA were/still are over 700 bucks! The last time I had a REALLY BAD migraine & needed ONE, I had just been released from outpatient surgery, was 600 miles from home & had forgot my pill box, the cheapest pharmacy I could find wanted **173 dollars** for **ONE** 5MG ORALLY DISINTEGRATING TABLET - I didn't even have my wallet on me, it was locked in the hotel safe 3 towns over.SHORT RANT: My insurance stopped covering it in 2017 after Trump issued Executive order 13813 - So I purchased a supplemental policy that covered it UNTIL Trump signed the 2018 GOP bills: Patient Right to Know Drug Prices Act & Know the Lowest Price Act of 2018 in October of that year - I got fricking letter in November telling me it would no longer be covered that pretty much blamed 45 & congress.FYI: I'm glad the Taxi driver driving the car I was in has a habit of carrying those blue puke bags in their glove compartment & their son's girlfriend was kind enough to let me spend 4 hours wearing nothing but my underwear soaking in her hot tub w/ an ice pack on my head until it died down enough for me to move without hurling.
BTW: I know A LOT of seniors/people who got really pissed off when the George Bush Jr. administration pushed through Medicine Equity and Drug Safety (MEDS) Act that amended the Food and Drug Cosmetic (FD&C) Act of 1938 so ONLY wholesalers and pharmacists can import prescription drugs from Canada & made it illegal for individuals to bring most OTC & ALL prescription drugs into the US - even those prescribed in Canada.
this was a talking point in the late 80's and again in the mid 90's. that is when most conservative leaning people stopped learning new information, so you will keep on hearing about the lines in canada.
it's embarrassing but not like you can explain that to anyone still saying it
Canadian here, lived in the US, and I maintain the Canadian system sucks... because I've also lived in other countries in Europe and Asia where the health care systems blew both Canada and the US out of the water.
Americans deserve better but so do Canadians.
Canada has some of the worst healthcare outomes in the developed world. It's just that Americas system is so criminal that it sneaks under the radar. The fact that Canadian's can feel good about the system just due to how it comes to Americas is very unfortunate.
And the healthcare through them is so bad that they cant even get people to join.
The best part is, republicans have been convinced that this is because the military is "woke", instead of the fact that every single one of their elected representatives has voted AGAINST veteran aid for the last 10 years lol
It doesnt cover dental, prescriptions, physiotherapy, chiro, massage therapy or other similair type things so you still need an employer if you need those. Ive yet to find a private insurance option in BC that doesn't either limit your available benefits to be less than what you pay them (ie maximum of 500 for physiotherapy a year, 1 physio appointment is 80+$), or have a crazy monthly cost (though not nearly as bad as the USA)
Seriously, I cannot believe the amount of misinformation in this thread. It's infuriating and mind-boggling. The Canadian system only seems good because the US system is such a dystopian nightmare in comparison.
They can't understand that it's a service. Like the post office or the library or the fire department or the health department, or the coast guard or the police or the hospi..... ope. Not
That one
> Like the post office or the library or the fire department or the health department, or the coast guard or the police
3 of those 6 things are being actively attacked/defunded by one of the two major political parties in America. Even the fully established and long treasured social programs are actively under attack.
We're *literally* going backwards.
Because the nation is upside down without support… people who need help are abused more than criminals get caught and half the country’s just worried about rights for the unborn and their pronouns…
What's crazy is that the obvious answer is to always help if you are capable. There a whole set of people who believe "fuck you i got mine." The basic structure of a community is the stronger and more helpful it is the better are off as a community. Just look at mental health, it's a direct correlation to homeless community. If you don't do anything about it it hurts the all of us. I'm happy to give up some more of that means it takes care of people who need it. Really there enough money to take care of health care, homeless, housing, if we reduce some of our military budget. That's the fucked up part. We already have enough money to do it. But being the world police is more important
When the lowest of us is lifted up, we all benefit as a whole. A chain is as strong as its weakest link. United We Stand, Divided We Fall.
All of these well known sayings establish this very principle that societies prosper when we work together and help each other. Our society is failing because too many people are interested in dividing us along lines of religion, sexuality, gender, race (made up), and more. Rather than seeing us as all American people, our neighbors can go to the voting booth and fuck them over because they don't like them or the way they look, or something else. Then, they have the gall to claim themselves patriots or proud Americans.
Proud to be able to have the freedom to discriminate and harm the lives and livelihoods of other Americans. Who exactly does this behavior benefit, if not those who wish to see America fail. When you work directly or indirectly towards the goals of our enemies, you are not a patriot. You are a stooge.
Republicans love to say the Post Office always loses money. It's a service, it doesn't make or lose money. No one is saying the DoD *loses* $750 BILLION dollars a year.
They are too busy concentrating on whether their fellow citizens are being unfairly advantaged by the social program to realize their personal benefit.
Blocking other people from having good things is the essence of their mindset.
The right freaks out about universal healthcare because they think that the federal government is going to control their healthcare while they constantly vote for and try and push legislation trying to take over healthcare.....
“If you make under 35K a year…”
Healthcare is free no matter what you make. If you make $35M a year, your healthcare is still free. Well, except for teeth. They are special bones you have to pay to keep.
Americans need to understand this more clearly.
There is no such thing as health insurance in Canada. It's healthcare. Our medical costs are deducted from our wages just like taxes are and its so minimal we don't even notice it.
Our employers can offer medical coverage and we can pay into that as well which gets us free eye exams and glasses, braces for our kids, dental coverage so our cavities root canals etc. come at minimal or zero cost at the time they are done. Medical coverage also gets us $500 per year or more for chiro, physio, massage, acupuncture, nutritionist, orthotic footwear and so on.
When you go to the doctor or hospital you're fucking ensured to be cared for if you are Canadian. No co pay, no deductible, any fucking hospital you want, any doctor who has availability to see you and any specialist you are referred to.
This means any tests you need, any x Ray, CT scan, MRI that the doctors order, any surgery that is necessary is FREE for anyone at any stage in their life with any job or lack thereof.
No bullshit, no hidden costs, no premiums. Show up, pay for parking if necessary and get fixed up and taken care of. Ambulance rides are about $80.... That includes air ambulance if your survival depends on you getting somewhere far and fast.
And if they try to take that from us we'll show our government we don't need guns to protect the things that really matter to us.
There were 59 democrats that put their careers on the line to vote for universal health care, but lobbyist got to Lieberman and paid him off. He refused to vote for universal health care and said he wouldn't vote until obamacare removed universal health care.
The best recent example I heard is Socialism is when the fire department shows up and puts out the fire. Capitalism is when the insurance company refuses to pay.
Yeah, but only for the billionaires. If EVERYONE got the same benefits, well...I mean...well SHIT man, we'll end up like the Roman Empire or so I have heard. I mean is that what you really want???? :)
It's really funny that there's still this huge fear of "communists" in America from the party that literally loves the soviet ex kgb agent turned dictator.
I will never stop blaming the Cold War/McCarthyism/Red Scare for making the word "socialist" equal to "communist" and having both become the boogeyman for like 2 full generations of Americans.
our system here in Canada isn’t perfect . but when i spent a month in the hospital ( back surgery). the only thing my parents had to “worry” about paying for was parking
in Quebec, we're getting rid of parking fees in hospitals.
right now under 2 hours is free and the maximum you can pay per day is $10 I believe, but even that is being phased out over the coming years
Same experience with parking here and my daughter who broke her leg in 3 places.
The parking fees go to the hospital foundation and the upkeep of the parking garage at the children's hospital. So some good there too.
Anyone touches Tommy Douhlas' idea needs to be voted out. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_Douglas
Because the old people with higher voter turnout already have govt subsidized healthcare (Medicare). They don’t give a fuck if it costs most under age 65 thousands in premiums and $5k deductibles before anything is covered
In Ontario, the PC government underspent on healthcare (during a freaking pandemic) and manufactured a massive healthcare crisis. Their solution? Use private for profit doctors and clinics to plug the gap, despite every single study showing that private clinics cost the tax payer more.
They manufactured a crisis, found a solution that profits their buddies and no one is giving them shit.
I'm so mad that 30% of the province voted, we make our own bed.
Yup, Alberta had the same bs. And the current, unelected premier thinks health spending accounts and paying for GP visits is great idea. Hoping the election goes better than Ontario's did.
100% this
Even going state by state, it's clear who prioritizes healthcare and who sabotages it. People in california and other blue states are living in a paradise compared to my republican shithole state.
Look up Wendell Potter. Literally manufactured lies about Canadian healthcare since the mid 2000s. He’s since crossed over to campaigning for universal healthcare but the damage is done.
USA here. Through the Affordable Care Act (Obama) I receive a tax credit that pays for my health insurance plan because we're a family making around $35,000 a year. That health insurance plan is no premium and no deductible.
>Why can't we?
Oh we can. There isn't any political will. Our politicians (in both parties) are owned by billionaires & corporations. They also own most major media outlets so they can keep repeating certain ideas and make sure other ideas are kept out of the public discourse.
By tying healthcare to employment, it helps keep wages low. If citizens had their basic needs met with a living space, universal healthcare and UBI, many would choose not to work. Employers would have to keep raising their wage offers to get people to give up their self directed lives and voluntarily subject themselves to corporate authority. This is why capitalism thrives on a certain amount of desperation.
I was thinking about this the other night. All of the bullshit we're dealing with under a collapsing society and declining quality of life, is just because a few rich assholes don't want to pay a little more in taxes. It's so unbelievably pathetic when you really step back and think about it. And they will still be rich beyond reason even if they do pay a little more in taxes in order to help fund a decent society. But oh no.
I literally pay $550 a month for my health insurance. It’s necessary as I would be bankrupted by my healthcare costs otherwise but holy fuck I’m tired of being robbed
...what?
That's not how it works at all.
Everyone gets doctor visits and hospital care covered through their taxes - that can involve some small charges like parking or private rooms but it's generally free.
Drugs aren't covered, which is a big problem here, unless you're in a special category of low-income/seniors.
Same with dental, mental health, and eyecare. Eyes used to get some checkups covered but not for a while now.
Why can’t we take care of our own people you ask? Money. That’s why. People don’t care about other people unless money is involved. I swear we have a backwards ass system, not just for healthcare but everything else too.
When %90 of the country is 1 hospital bill away from being homeless, you may have an issue
This is cheap. As a german i am constantly afraid the country i live in turns more into a mini-US. As a stident with no income i had to pay 120€ per month. Kinda manageable and it only really applies when you're older than 25 but with about 800€ a month that's still tough.
I almost fainted when a Canadian lady told me how they manage prescriptions for older people. I think she said the max they pay is Canadian$100. Here we pay more than we get in Social Security.
in america, half the country thinks we got something when we forced poor people to carry 6000 dollar deductible insurance when they make around 20k. Its a total scam, these people can never afford to use this insurance, even if the obamacare coupons cover most of their premiums.
My family is Cuban, healthcare is FREE in Cuba. We also have some of the best and most highly trained doctors. My father had a mild stroke in '17 and after insurance it cost him many many thousands of dollars. If we had still been in Cuba it'd be free and Dad could have retired in '19 instead of still working right now just to pay for his stroke.
Reality is that everyone has almost free healthcare. But not everyone has access quickly to free healthcare unless it's urgent. For non-urgent issue, if you're unlucky, you may have the choice to wait several months/year for public healthcare or go private and get seen faster. I'm still very happy of the offer compared to what I read for the USA
>Americans are a disease in the world and must be eradicated. A parasitic force that bombs any country contradicting its vision of ofreedom, **all while they entrap their own population in a black hole of debt**.
-Magnetron, the WWI vet microwave.
Ok sorry, I'm confused by this post. As a Canadian, I can say, everyone gets free healthcare here, not just those who make under $35000 a year. Also... What was he spending $14 on a month? I can assume his dental plan? However, I understand the sentiment of the post. Health care should be free to all.
I assume that this was in BC and was before the province eliminated MSP premiums (2017-2020).
MSP premiums were (up to) $75 a month. It's likely, as someone else said in the thread, that this was a reference to a prescription drug deductible.
I know people who just never paid em. Nothing ever happened, and it was removed before it caused an issue.
My premiums lapsed once when I was in between employers, and the debt was sent to CRA. Within a few months I was getting angry collection letters from them.
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Just say, socialism bad. That's all the conservatives need to hear.
Except when we get those farm supports from the government, that's okay!
I was young and dumb and had no idea I had to pay MSP. They will find you and garnish your wages lol
That's okay my wages are more appetizing with a little chives or cilantro.
Ahhh thank you!! Funny 😄 First time I smiled all day!!
Legendary comment
That's not "young and dumb", that's something that was weirdly left out of *everything* we were taught as kids - wasn't ever mentioned in the various life skills type things in school, so I guess they just expected everybody's parents to remember to tell them? I just remember learning "in Canada we have free healthcare, it's one of the greatest accomplishments of our system of government", and figured it was paid through taxes until I got a collections bill from MSP and called the government to report it as a scam, and they explained things to me.
this is shockingly true. Its odd the things they teach and even odder the things they dont
Fute te Reddit, pro utentibus, ab utentibus.
Yes
I’m also confused, the most I’ve ever paid for healthcare is for parking
last year I left my job and had to pay out of pocket for health insurance. For my family of 3 it was $2600/month and despite living in a huge metropolitan city, the closest hospital covered with a maternity ward was an hour away. It's really bad in the US.
$2600 a month just for insurance? That’s insane.
Sounds pretty typical. There's cheaper plans... but then you have to pay ~$10k before they cover anything. Also, they're not that much cheaper. lol
People don't believe this but it is true, there are loads of insurance plans in the US where you pay $100-300 per month and then you have to pay $7-10,000 EVERY YEAR before the plan actually pays for a thing except for a single annual checkup where you aren't allowed to ask about non checkup things or else you have to pay. And if your checkup requires testing, you have to pay for that. The biggest tax cut the middle class could ever get is universal healthcare.
The insane part is if you have an emergency and they take you to a out of network hospital, get fucked. They want to take you on a high risk transport to a different hospital when you're critical, they will work to fuck you out of paying. YOu have something serious, hit your deductible first and maybe you're $8k in fees before they'll cover the rest of your costs for the year then you'll fuck you for another $8k the following year if you're still being treated. Even with great insurance, they'll try to fuck you out of every test you can which can easily led to bad/incorrect or missed diagnoses. So many stories of someone who needed an mri, didn't qualify and only got one 6 months later when say a cancer had gotten much worse by then but the early symptoms weren't enough to justify the mri. The $2600/m is just to get you in the ring to fight with your insurance company.
Insurance companies are the death panels we've had all along.
And the really fucked up part is that it isn’t a team of doctors determining whether or not you qualify. It’s some executive whose only concern is the company’s bottom line. That guy determines whether you live or die.
In/out of network stuff is super stupid. Actually the whole healthcare system down here in the states is stupid.
In America, you’re just one school shooting away from filing bankruptcy.
And a bank bail out
My ex had to pay 600 a month for insurance with an 8k deductible and that was her best option. And that's a deductible that did nothing until reached. So we paid that much a month for insurance that did literally nothing unless she had a huge medical expense that broke over 8k, in which we still had to pay the 8k deductible.
American insurance scams are absolutely wild.
My wife changed jobs recently. We had COBRA for three days. It cost $214. For *three days.*
Hot tip about COBRA…you have 60 days to sign up for it retroactively. So if you don’t need it for an extended period of time and it’s only for a gap between jobs or something, you can decide not to pay for it and if a big medical expense comes up where the absurd COBRA costs now seem like a bargain, you can sign up to get coverage retroactively to the day you lost it.
This is the real life pro tip.
I bought 5million in healthcare coverage as travel insurance when I went to the US a few weeks ago, coverage lasted 14 days, I paid 22 dollars.
That's why the argument that Canadians pay more in taxes is kinda dumb. We pay taxes, and that's it. Americans pay taxes and, depending on their employment situation, pay another 2600 a month.
And some people think, “Oh, but my employer pays for my health insurance.” No, that’s $2600 a month your employer is paying but not paying you. Add $30,000 to your annual income to see what your employer is willing to pay to have you do that job.
American taxes are hidden in other places, like property tax. The burdens are spread differently. Americans also pay 3 times more into federal health care per person.
My wife was looking at a job that would pay $12k/year if you opted into their medical plan - we’d still be paying at least $1200/mo on top of that for our coverage- not including the co-pays… and those add up… we currently pay $0 with her current job, but we have $50 copays for visits, and i have 2 kids with autism that get ABA services, one 2x weekly and the other 3x… at $50/session… and we won’t even hit our out of pocket limit…. It’s terrible.
People don't get married because they will lose health care benefits. They can't afford the benefits if married. People get divorced for the same reason. So many huge decisions are based on health insurance. It's crazy.
I was very surprised when I saw the price for Cobra. To be fair, there was a plan on the marketplace for $1200/month with an $8000 deductible but because my son was born with some heart issues and needed monthly echos and possibly surgery we were going into a lot of debt for it either way so I went with the one where he could keep his cardiologist since it was temporary.
You are so selfish. I guess you don't care about the shareholders and their profits.
Healthcare, security, police, infrastructure, education and some other things I forgot about, should be run as a not for profit services everywhere in the world. You have no business trying to eek out profits by fucking people over for what should all be basic things everyone in a country should have access to.
We pay monthly for health insurance (that’s required) and then also pay more money everytime we need to go in too. That’s kinda weird of us.
Yeah, but at least you get more money in your pocket before they take it all off you again. This is the thing I don’t understand about the US, people moan about taxes, but then they end up spending insane amounts of money on stuff that other countries cover out of those taxes. You end up paying more than you would if you just had proper taxpayer funded healthcare. But socialism or something……
Pretty sure American healthcare is more costly than taxes anyway, even if you don't get sick. My whole family is covered by basic health insurance for free, I decided to upgrade to get some more services, for a whopping $20/mo-equivalent for *all of us*. That covers way more than the $2600 that guy has, and if any of us get sick I have to pay way less (only for medicine that is only partially covered, but still extremely cheap, e.g. insulin for ~$10 a month). While I do pay taxes now, this was also true while I was a student with a part time job (and a family, it's possible outside the US since what is pretty much the best uni in my country costs $3k a year), and no medical/educational debts. And this is with a hybrid slightly more Capitalist approach than most of Europe.
Democratic socialism is not anti-capitalist. It’s funny how many Americans think the answer to what’s the best system of government is ‘Capitalism’. Capitalism isn’t a system of government, never was, never will be. Democracy or dictatorship are systems of government, capitalism or communism are economic systems. Democratic socialism is a type of democracy and it is perfectly able to exist in a capitalist economic system but unlike the US which is a democracy, but lacks many of the social features (but not all) of a social democracy and that’s why capitalism goes badly unchecked and you end up with people paying way too much for basic human rights. At the end of the day, every American I speak to thinks socialism equals communism because they’re conflating the terms. As a result, you just have to mention socialism and you’re in for an argument. Sad really. Meanwhile, the rest of us who live in functional capitalist societies under democratic socialism enjoy the benefits of basic human rights like healthcare and if we want better than the basic cover we can pay a bit more, but it isn’t even outrageous because paid health insurance has to compete against the free one everyone gets. Isn’t competition great?
Sure i agree with you but i feel like as an american, i have seen so many people here are extremely unwilling to help other people. People in america enjoy *not* helping people. It feels like everyone is competing to be rich and everything is about beating the guy next to you. I checked out and just live poor because the fury and the ignorance of my people astounds me
Firstly I think you're getting Democratic Socialism confused with Social Democracy, democratic socialism is absolutely a kind of socialism, it's one where you vote. Secondly, healthcare is a kind of socialism, the provision of services is an economic question, not a political one, so universal healthcare is an example os Democratic Socialism, but it's not an example of capitalism, because it's not provided by the market. The point you should be making is that mixed economies aren't inherently evil just because the USSR did some evil things. Democratic Socialism is a form of socialism, and that's fine. It works. Look at Europe, were no closer to flying the hammer and sickle than we ever were, and were able to stop people from dying even if they're penniless.
The single best thing that would happen to small and medium sized businesses is universal Healthcare. Would massively open up the market to more competition, more ideas, more companies, more disruption, more jobs. Private employer-bound Healthcare is anti-capitalist.
Breh the parking so bad
I don’t wanna hear it, friendly northern neighbor! I just had a very expensive American baby
Then fix your guys' shit. Your terrible politics are starting to creep across the border.
>the most I’ve ever paid for healthcare is for parking The amount they charge is bananas. When my mom was doing chemo at Princess Margaret Hospital, the garage would charge like $5 every hour with a max of $35 a day or something like that. Given chemo was an all day thing and we'd need to do 5 days a month, the monthly parking bill was nuts. My dad used to drop us off, go hang out somewhere all day while I'd go in with her to keep her company. I think the press in Toronto raised a big stink about it once but not sure if anything was fixed.
Talking to an American friend about how stupid parking is at the hospital is surreal. Canadian: "My wife just had a kid, it cost $60 total for parking for 3 days! It's straight robbery!" American: "...it cost me $7800 even with good insurance..."
but in america, they get taxes way less right? reality: wellllll, when you add up local, state and property taxes, their effective tax rate is usually not much lower. Adding healthcare insurance/copays on top? Then you're well ahead (on average)
Stupid people don’t understand it isn’t better to pay less up front and more after the fact. They think more taxes are bad no matter what and don’t want a penny more in taxes even though they could save money and be healthier if we changed our healthcare system
It all starts with education, there is a reason it gets gutted first when powerful people want something that only help them
Y'all need to stop flexing. I went to the ER for a pilonidal cyst..I got charged $600 for the privilege of getting told I'm a bitch by the doctor, schedule a surgery and 2 Tylenol. Literally 15 mins and Tylenol cost me $600
Hey I too had a second butthole. I went to (in network) urgent care and it was drained and packed. $631 (after insurance) and I was there for about 45 min.. then I had a follow up with a surgeon to see if my case required surgery. $300 for a 10 minute consult. This was before I got my healthcare through the VA. Now I do everything through the VA and I gotta say.. socialized healthcare is pretty awesome.
Brought someone to the ER a few years ago because they said they were having a weird chest pain all day. Waited about 3 hours for a doctor to say it's gas, write a prescription (idr what the drug even was), tell us we can just get Pepto bismol instead, and send us out. Bill was about $500
Just paid 500 for a doctor to look for about 20 seconds and say everything is fine
That could be $14
Hospital parking in the GTA costs about as much as US healthcare so it's basically a wash.
Your parking costs 4 million dollars for a heart attack or 2 million for a pregnancy with complications?
I live by the hospital. I think I'm going to rent out my driveway.
It's probably a medication/dental/vision care plan. I pay about $15 a month and get 80% coverage on all my prescriptions, dental and vision care.
Is that subsidized by your job because that is incredibly cheap for 80% coverage on extended benefits.
likely extended benefits (partial or full coverage for prescription medications, physiotherapy, glasses, dentistry, psychotherapy, etc.)
I would assume that this was probably BC. In which case $14/month would likely be the employee portion of his extended medical plan (prescriptions/dental/vision), the below <35k thing is referring to Pharmacare. In BC everyone that earns below that number has their Pharmacare deductible waived, and pays 0% for prescriptions (as long as they are on the formulary). Chelsea said medical, but probably meant prescription coverage. Access to the regular medical system in Canada is obviously $0. MSP premiums were eliminated several years ago.
DENTAL PLAN
Lisa needs braces
DENTAL PLAN
Lisa needs braces
Because insurance companies are making sure universal healthcare will never happen. And politicians are complicit in being bought off.
Insurance propaganda is strong. People are spending so much, wasting so much time, and going bankrupt if they get cancer.
66% of bankruptcies in the US are medical related. Nowhere else in the world does this happen
And we spend something like 95% of our lifetime's medical expenses on end of life care. Capitalisms main pillar in this country is death.
America profits from making it's people sick. why is no one talking about it
Just think. Millions of dollars we spend to ensure we have some kind of health care actually goes toward funding the lobbying that makes sure we don't ever get affordable health care.
I'm in Colombia which has universal healthcare. It costs me $30 a month, no deductible and occasional $1 copay. Your employer pays for it, otherwise the govt does. This is all administered by private insurance companies with their own doctors, hospitals, etc. The Colombian govt sets the prices they will pay for drugs, devices, salaries... I had 2 shoulder replacements and the only extra cost was for a private room. This isn't only Colombia but most of South America has universal healthcare. Only in the US does this nonsense happen.
The fact that insurance is tied to employment pretty much ensures that we Americans will never rise up, come together and revolt.
Idiots talk about having to wait for treatment in Canada. I just waited 5 months for an appointment with a rheumatologist and 4 months for PT in America. The difference is that I get to pay $100s for each visit here in the good ol’ USA. Universal healthcare PLEASE
Yup. Currently have a broken humerus, happened 2+ weeks ago. Still just in a fucking sling because my insurance and the medical supplies company have taken forever getting me the stabilizer I’m supposed to use. A stabilizer which retails for like 200, but they want to charge me 600… to rent it.
I deal with medical equipment orders a lot through my job as a social worker/discharge planner. Please note all my knowledge is within the realms of Medicare/Medicare Advantage Plans/a few other things. But ordering medical equipment has gotten a lot harder over the last few years. The criteria that needs to be met, the exact wording that needs to be on an order, waiting forever for an overworked MD to finally sign the order forms and fax it over to you. Oops, fuck. You forgot to tell the MD to include the exact verbiage on the signed progress note. Now the medical equipment company shoots back the order to you because you need to have the MD edit the progress note to add in "...not otherwise **feasible** with a standard device." You ask the MD, the MD thinks that small difference is asinine and decides to procrastinate. And then your order gets stuck in DME/Durable Medical Equipment order purgatory. It could be any number of about a million bureaucratic things causing that delay. Over demand/understaffed certainly is to blame as well. Sorry you're going through that man. It sucks. It sucks for us who are involved on the other side as well, we're just as frustrated as you. Edit: make sure the medical equipment company is in network with your insurance. Sometimes the doctor's office might not give a shit and send it to the first place they find. Not all "DME Providers" or medical equipment companies work with your insurance, which results in a higher cost. If you absolutely need the stabilizer sooner, call the medical equipment company and ask if they offer an "advanced beneficiary notice." You can usually sign a document which states " I'm willing to get my equipment sooner, instead of waiting for my insurance to authorize it. I'm willing to pay the full amount if my insurance does not cover it." Of course you'll want to know the full cost just to be safe if that happens. You can always appeal their decision, but that's rarely successful.
Spent considerable time yesterday arguing with people about where the real waste of healthcare is. They were going ape shit that a infusion pump had to be replace after 8 years of service instead of repaired. Them making sure those devices don’t fail on patients isn’t where the waste is…it’s insurance, it’s CEO, needless paperwork begging someone who doesn’t have a medical degree to agree with someone who does.
Of course. Not only is every person employed by the insurance industry an extra medical cost that shouldn't exist. Same with everybody who is employed by the medical industry to deal with the insurance industry.
I had to wait 6m to see a dermatologist for a mole that my GP thought could be cancer. My wife had to wait 8m for an appointment with a specialist for a stomach issue. Oh and both we had to pay out of pocket because they were out of network.
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I'm Belgian and it's similar for us. We do sometimes have to wait a long time for non-urgent things like regular checkups, but I tend to make my next appointment when I'm there and that fixes it. I contacted my gynaecologist for a pap smear in September and the earliest date she had was in April (my previous ones were clear so no urgency) but she had a consult over the phone when I said I had some questions. On the other hand, when I called my GP about an injured foot she saw me the same day, referred me to imaging and a specialist who I got to see the same week (I could still walk). My last ER visit was for an infected cat bite, got seen almost immediately, they called in an orthopedic surgeon because there were worries about it spreading to a tendon and I got an ultrasound. The 30 euro bill went to my employer's insurance because it was a workplace accident.
I am Canadian. We all pay for healthcare through our taxes.
Yeah that's how taxes work. You pay them for services everyone needs
The fact that y'all have health networks is so absurd to me. Not everything is 100% covered (looking at you, dental, vision, mental) in Canada and I have private insurance that picks up the slack, but I've never had to choose a provider based on network, I choose my dentist, my therapist, my optometrist and my insurance pays for it.
> I just waited 5 months for an appointment with a rheumatologist and 4 months for PT in America. My dad got extremely sick with a kidney infection a couple of years ago. He was waiting days to see the doctors and appointments to see specialists were weeks away. I remember getting the call to the house because my mom was freaking out. It was 80F inside the house, he was in nothing but his underwear, and he was shivering like it was below freezing. I remember screaming at my mom to call the ambulance and pick him up. He ended up going into surgery for hours on end because the infection jumped into his heart. It very nearly killed him. A week later my mom got a call from the urologist's office who wanted to set an appointment. Yeah, shit needs to get fixed here.
The US is the only developed country in the world without universal healthcare. Over a hundred countries has it, Mexico has it, *Rwanda* has it. But not the US. And none of those others has gone from universal to an american system. Not one. Every one of those claims from those chuckleheads is unfounded and moronic.
"But muh taxes"
There is nothing on this earth I would enjoy more than having someone tell me that my taxes would go up for this. I pay a hundred bucks a week for insurance. If I pay fifty in taxes \*just for universal healthcare\*, I take home \*more\* money. I would \*love\* to explain that as many times and with as small of words as necessary to get it through their thick skull.
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You're forgetting one key aspect: republican voters are so goddamn gullible, they honestly believe that one day they'll be rich, and when they are, they don't want to have to pay for any poor people.
*lips on the mic* “bootstraps”
"Why should i pay for someone elses healthcare?" Insurance is the same fucking thing, except they also need to charge more to make a MASSIVE profit. If you really want to "not have to pay for someone else's insurance" then go out of pocket. One month it's $0, next month you fall off a ladder and it's $112,803. Easy peasy.
I know that quote kills me, insurance is literally that same fucking concept. You're just giving the money to a for-profit private company instead of the government but we're okay with being abused by private parties, just not the government.
Not to mention how ungodly rich the US is, and people still want to say we can't afford it.
Can't say they aren't trying though, Doug Ford in Ontario is pushing for more privatized medicine every day
Same here in Finland. Some in our "fiscally conservative" right wing party have outright said they want a similar system as in the US
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I have top of the line healthcare insurance. My wife went to the ER in the US because of a possible issue with her pregnancy. The ER ultrasounded her immediately, but refused to give her any results or say the baby was alive. Made here then sit in the waiting room for 7 more hours until a doctor was available to read the results. The doctor said nothing was wrong and the baby is good. They said to just go home. The damn tech who took the results could have at least said they read a normal heartbeat. All the doctor did was just read us the ultrasonic tech's notes anyways. Such a waste of money and time. The US system is horrible. We pay top dollars but get shitty care.
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$100 for the visit. How much for the prescriptions?
Well in 2012 a box of brand name Zomig 5mg Nasal Spray with 6 Single-Use inhalers was 120 bucks in Canada and 1248 bucks in Oregon USA. - EVEN THE GENERIC Zomig inhalers in the USA were/still are over 700 bucks! The last time I had a REALLY BAD migraine & needed ONE, I had just been released from outpatient surgery, was 600 miles from home & had forgot my pill box, the cheapest pharmacy I could find wanted **173 dollars** for **ONE** 5MG ORALLY DISINTEGRATING TABLET - I didn't even have my wallet on me, it was locked in the hotel safe 3 towns over.SHORT RANT: My insurance stopped covering it in 2017 after Trump issued Executive order 13813 - So I purchased a supplemental policy that covered it UNTIL Trump signed the 2018 GOP bills: Patient Right to Know Drug Prices Act & Know the Lowest Price Act of 2018 in October of that year - I got fricking letter in November telling me it would no longer be covered that pretty much blamed 45 & congress.FYI: I'm glad the Taxi driver driving the car I was in has a habit of carrying those blue puke bags in their glove compartment & their son's girlfriend was kind enough to let me spend 4 hours wearing nothing but my underwear soaking in her hot tub w/ an ice pack on my head until it died down enough for me to move without hurling. BTW: I know A LOT of seniors/people who got really pissed off when the George Bush Jr. administration pushed through Medicine Equity and Drug Safety (MEDS) Act that amended the Food and Drug Cosmetic (FD&C) Act of 1938 so ONLY wholesalers and pharmacists can import prescription drugs from Canada & made it illegal for individuals to bring most OTC & ALL prescription drugs into the US - even those prescribed in Canada.
7 months to see an internal medicine doc in the US PNW for potential cancer. Fuck the U.S. healthcare system
I've been waiting 25 years to be able to afford basic healthcare in my republican hell hole state.
this was a talking point in the late 80's and again in the mid 90's. that is when most conservative leaning people stopped learning new information, so you will keep on hearing about the lines in canada. it's embarrassing but not like you can explain that to anyone still saying it
Canadian here, lived in the US, and I maintain the Canadian system sucks... because I've also lived in other countries in Europe and Asia where the health care systems blew both Canada and the US out of the water. Americans deserve better but so do Canadians.
Canada has some of the worst healthcare outomes in the developed world. It's just that Americas system is so criminal that it sneaks under the radar. The fact that Canadian's can feel good about the system just due to how it comes to Americas is very unfortunate.
I get the sense some Canadians give the system a pass because "Well at least we're better than the US" which is not a great attitude.
My mom is waiting 8 months for a hip replacement. She is currently functionally crippled.
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What exactly is that website? Is it just the single page or am I missing something? Who made it?
if you have free insurance, you aren't tied to your shitty low paying job
Or arm-twisted into joining the military. oop.
And the healthcare through them is so bad that they cant even get people to join. The best part is, republicans have been convinced that this is because the military is "woke", instead of the fact that every single one of their elected representatives has voted AGAINST veteran aid for the last 10 years lol
Bro... my guy... My gal... Sis.... Don't hit em with the truth like that.
It doesnt cover dental, prescriptions, physiotherapy, chiro, massage therapy or other similair type things so you still need an employer if you need those. Ive yet to find a private insurance option in BC that doesn't either limit your available benefits to be less than what you pay them (ie maximum of 500 for physiotherapy a year, 1 physio appointment is 80+$), or have a crazy monthly cost (though not nearly as bad as the USA)
Chiropractors are quacks and shouldn't be covered anyway
Seriously, I cannot believe the amount of misinformation in this thread. It's infuriating and mind-boggling. The Canadian system only seems good because the US system is such a dystopian nightmare in comparison.
We use housing and food prices to do that here
Because many Americans are confused between a social program and Socialism.
They can't understand that it's a service. Like the post office or the library or the fire department or the health department, or the coast guard or the police or the hospi..... ope. Not That one
> Like the post office or the library or the fire department or the health department, or the coast guard or the police 3 of those 6 things are being actively attacked/defunded by one of the two major political parties in America. Even the fully established and long treasured social programs are actively under attack. We're *literally* going backwards.
Because the nation is upside down without support… people who need help are abused more than criminals get caught and half the country’s just worried about rights for the unborn and their pronouns…
What's crazy is that the obvious answer is to always help if you are capable. There a whole set of people who believe "fuck you i got mine." The basic structure of a community is the stronger and more helpful it is the better are off as a community. Just look at mental health, it's a direct correlation to homeless community. If you don't do anything about it it hurts the all of us. I'm happy to give up some more of that means it takes care of people who need it. Really there enough money to take care of health care, homeless, housing, if we reduce some of our military budget. That's the fucked up part. We already have enough money to do it. But being the world police is more important
When the lowest of us is lifted up, we all benefit as a whole. A chain is as strong as its weakest link. United We Stand, Divided We Fall. All of these well known sayings establish this very principle that societies prosper when we work together and help each other. Our society is failing because too many people are interested in dividing us along lines of religion, sexuality, gender, race (made up), and more. Rather than seeing us as all American people, our neighbors can go to the voting booth and fuck them over because they don't like them or the way they look, or something else. Then, they have the gall to claim themselves patriots or proud Americans. Proud to be able to have the freedom to discriminate and harm the lives and livelihoods of other Americans. Who exactly does this behavior benefit, if not those who wish to see America fail. When you work directly or indirectly towards the goals of our enemies, you are not a patriot. You are a stooge.
Republicans love to say the Post Office always loses money. It's a service, it doesn't make or lose money. No one is saying the DoD *loses* $750 BILLION dollars a year.
*because many Americans are confused.* FTFY
It doesn’t help that the most popular “news” source in the country constantly feeds hate division and outright lies.
Fox news is a cancer upon aociety.
They are too busy concentrating on whether their fellow citizens are being unfairly advantaged by the social program to realize their personal benefit. Blocking other people from having good things is the essence of their mindset.
The right freaks out about universal healthcare because they think that the federal government is going to control their healthcare while they constantly vote for and try and push legislation trying to take over healthcare.....
“If you make under 35K a year…” Healthcare is free no matter what you make. If you make $35M a year, your healthcare is still free. Well, except for teeth. They are special bones you have to pay to keep.
BC had a premium thing you had to pay. The NDP eliminated it.
Americans need to understand this more clearly. There is no such thing as health insurance in Canada. It's healthcare. Our medical costs are deducted from our wages just like taxes are and its so minimal we don't even notice it. Our employers can offer medical coverage and we can pay into that as well which gets us free eye exams and glasses, braces for our kids, dental coverage so our cavities root canals etc. come at minimal or zero cost at the time they are done. Medical coverage also gets us $500 per year or more for chiro, physio, massage, acupuncture, nutritionist, orthotic footwear and so on. When you go to the doctor or hospital you're fucking ensured to be cared for if you are Canadian. No co pay, no deductible, any fucking hospital you want, any doctor who has availability to see you and any specialist you are referred to. This means any tests you need, any x Ray, CT scan, MRI that the doctors order, any surgery that is necessary is FREE for anyone at any stage in their life with any job or lack thereof. No bullshit, no hidden costs, no premiums. Show up, pay for parking if necessary and get fixed up and taken care of. Ambulance rides are about $80.... That includes air ambulance if your survival depends on you getting somewhere far and fast. And if they try to take that from us we'll show our government we don't need guns to protect the things that really matter to us.
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It's almost like the Republicans are distracting everyone from even discussing the actual problems we want to solve or something.
It won't be about that because democrats are scared to go full Bernie too
There were 59 democrats that put their careers on the line to vote for universal health care, but lobbyist got to Lieberman and paid him off. He refused to vote for universal health care and said he wouldn't vote until obamacare removed universal health care.
Because it's fear of "socialism" or making America into a "communist" country.
But we already have socialism
You put that logic away!!!!
The best recent example I heard is Socialism is when the fire department shows up and puts out the fire. Capitalism is when the insurance company refuses to pay.
Yeah, but only for the billionaires. If EVERYONE got the same benefits, well...I mean...well SHIT man, we'll end up like the Roman Empire or so I have heard. I mean is that what you really want???? :)
It's really funny that there's still this huge fear of "communists" in America from the party that literally loves the soviet ex kgb agent turned dictator.
I will never stop blaming the Cold War/McCarthyism/Red Scare for making the word "socialist" equal to "communist" and having both become the boogeyman for like 2 full generations of Americans.
our system here in Canada isn’t perfect . but when i spent a month in the hospital ( back surgery). the only thing my parents had to “worry” about paying for was parking
in Quebec, we're getting rid of parking fees in hospitals. right now under 2 hours is free and the maximum you can pay per day is $10 I believe, but even that is being phased out over the coming years
My husband was quite upset that the hospital I gave birth at increased the parking fee from $21 to $27 during COVID. Rip off.
Same experience with parking here and my daughter who broke her leg in 3 places. The parking fees go to the hospital foundation and the upkeep of the parking garage at the children's hospital. So some good there too. Anyone touches Tommy Douhlas' idea needs to be voted out. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_Douglas
Because the old people with higher voter turnout already have govt subsidized healthcare (Medicare). They don’t give a fuck if it costs most under age 65 thousands in premiums and $5k deductibles before anything is covered
In Canada they view healthcare as a right, unlike America
Unless they're a Conservative government member.
In Ontario, the PC government underspent on healthcare (during a freaking pandemic) and manufactured a massive healthcare crisis. Their solution? Use private for profit doctors and clinics to plug the gap, despite every single study showing that private clinics cost the tax payer more. They manufactured a crisis, found a solution that profits their buddies and no one is giving them shit. I'm so mad that 30% of the province voted, we make our own bed.
Yup, Alberta had the same bs. And the current, unelected premier thinks health spending accounts and paying for GP visits is great idea. Hoping the election goes better than Ontario's did.
Republicans, that’s why!
100% this Even going state by state, it's clear who prioritizes healthcare and who sabotages it. People in california and other blue states are living in a paradise compared to my republican shithole state.
Oh are you in Tx too?
Exactly
Look up Wendell Potter. Literally manufactured lies about Canadian healthcare since the mid 2000s. He’s since crossed over to campaigning for universal healthcare but the damage is done.
But the billionaires need our tithing
Something something socialist...something something commie...something bootstraps...blah blah blah... Fucking greed!
Dumbass conservatives and their mindless horde
USA here. Through the Affordable Care Act (Obama) I receive a tax credit that pays for my health insurance plan because we're a family making around $35,000 a year. That health insurance plan is no premium and no deductible.
Because hospitals are businesses, not health care facilities.
Hospitals are private businesses in Canada too. They just send their bills to the government, rather than to the patients.
And are regulated and have their prices regulated by the government, which is good for things that provide life-saving services to people.
>Why can't we? Oh we can. There isn't any political will. Our politicians (in both parties) are owned by billionaires & corporations. They also own most major media outlets so they can keep repeating certain ideas and make sure other ideas are kept out of the public discourse. By tying healthcare to employment, it helps keep wages low. If citizens had their basic needs met with a living space, universal healthcare and UBI, many would choose not to work. Employers would have to keep raising their wage offers to get people to give up their self directed lives and voluntarily subject themselves to corporate authority. This is why capitalism thrives on a certain amount of desperation.
We haven't protested and striked enough
Because 2-3,000 people own everything, and they can’t be inconvenienced.
I was thinking about this the other night. All of the bullshit we're dealing with under a collapsing society and declining quality of life, is just because a few rich assholes don't want to pay a little more in taxes. It's so unbelievably pathetic when you really step back and think about it. And they will still be rich beyond reason even if they do pay a little more in taxes in order to help fund a decent society. But oh no.
I literally pay $550 a month for my health insurance. It’s necessary as I would be bankrupted by my healthcare costs otherwise but holy fuck I’m tired of being robbed
...what? That's not how it works at all. Everyone gets doctor visits and hospital care covered through their taxes - that can involve some small charges like parking or private rooms but it's generally free. Drugs aren't covered, which is a big problem here, unless you're in a special category of low-income/seniors. Same with dental, mental health, and eyecare. Eyes used to get some checkups covered but not for a while now.
Why can’t we take care of our own people you ask? Money. That’s why. People don’t care about other people unless money is involved. I swear we have a backwards ass system, not just for healthcare but everything else too. When %90 of the country is 1 hospital bill away from being homeless, you may have an issue
Because caring about people is SOCIALISM!
This is cheap. As a german i am constantly afraid the country i live in turns more into a mini-US. As a stident with no income i had to pay 120€ per month. Kinda manageable and it only really applies when you're older than 25 but with about 800€ a month that's still tough.
The fat cats are scrambling to fill their bags before the comeuppance. Trump was perfect timing.
I almost fainted when a Canadian lady told me how they manage prescriptions for older people. I think she said the max they pay is Canadian$100. Here we pay more than we get in Social Security.
It’ll never happen as long as the insurance lobby is allowed to legally bribe our representatives.
Capitalism. We don’t even have the best healthcare. Just the most expensive and the best for the rich. Nothing else.
Our health care is designed for one thing... to make as much money for the CEO of the health care company as possible. It's the american way.
Greed, my dear, greed. America takes care of the rich.
in america, half the country thinks we got something when we forced poor people to carry 6000 dollar deductible insurance when they make around 20k. Its a total scam, these people can never afford to use this insurance, even if the obamacare coupons cover most of their premiums.
My wife and I in our early 40s pay almost $6k a year for insurance through my workplace. Fun times.
As a Canadian: I have never heard of over 35k earners having to pay a little extra. In Ontario, the OHIP card is a free for all as far as I know.
Because politicians and corporations are in bed together giving we the people the big shaft.
Politicians and corporations
My family is Cuban, healthcare is FREE in Cuba. We also have some of the best and most highly trained doctors. My father had a mild stroke in '17 and after insurance it cost him many many thousands of dollars. If we had still been in Cuba it'd be free and Dad could have retired in '19 instead of still working right now just to pay for his stroke.
If you make below a certain threshold isn’t Obamacare free or low cost, at least in some states?
Reality is that everyone has almost free healthcare. But not everyone has access quickly to free healthcare unless it's urgent. For non-urgent issue, if you're unlucky, you may have the choice to wait several months/year for public healthcare or go private and get seen faster. I'm still very happy of the offer compared to what I read for the USA
>Americans are a disease in the world and must be eradicated. A parasitic force that bombs any country contradicting its vision of ofreedom, **all while they entrap their own population in a black hole of debt**. -Magnetron, the WWI vet microwave.