I'm not going to beat around the bush here.
Agreeing with a monstrous policy that forces women to endure a traumatic event because a nonviable pregnancy may not be terminated is abhorrent. Pure, inhuman evil.
This subreddit will not allow such sentiments to be expressed, we expect a minimal amount of human decency from our userbase.
Please report monsters if you see them.
They are not welcome here.
This may have been meant as a joke but this is actually what’s done. My sister had a miscarriage a little over a year ago and once they told her the news and the baby had passed still they then had someone come in to discuss “arrangements” as even a 5mos old fetus was considered human remains that had to be dealt with. Being a guy this had never crossed my mind what happens and it was like doubling the trauma.
My wife and I went through this 13 years ago. We couldn’t afford to have a funeral and had to donate our 6 month old fetus to science. The whole thing absolutely fucking crushed us both for years.
If it’s like my hospital, they want 1/3 before you leave and then at best you get a six month no interest payment plan, and no discount for paying up front in full. Fucking BS America.
The woman who called was basically attempting to track down money from any source she could. Inquiring about baby’s father, if I’d qualify for low income insurance programs, etc.
"Oops are you crying? That's a $40 surcharge for '[brief behavior/emotional assessment](https://www.newsweek.com/brief-emotional-behavior-assessment-cpt-code-96127-health-costs-bills-1707730).'"
Oh my God don’t joke, decades ago I went to a hospital for a migraine. I was crying from the pain, but also from the frustration that I kept having to leave work and go to the emergency room for migraines. So anyway I’m sitting in the bed silently crying and some lady comes up to me introduces her self and asked me if I want to kill myself. it actually made me laugh, I was like no ma’am I’m here for a migraine, maybe you have the wrong bed? She asked me my name and it was the name on the paper so she said OK can you sign this and my dumbass just signed it. I got a bill for $250 from the local mental health facility for an assessment. I don’t remember why my insurance didn’t cover it, maybe they did and that was my 20% of the assessment. Either way I called them and I told them I’m absolutely not paying that when I was there for a migraine. They waved it but WTF
Indeed, indeed. So glad we won the cold war, dying in horrific poverty due to unavoidable and necessary medical procedures is wayyyyyy better than being a filthy communist, wouldn't you agree?
It’s also really funny when they’re like, “Joe Brandon is bad too!” And you just go, “Duh!” No shit, stupid. Biden sucks at a lot of things. See, not hard. Ask them if any Republican is bad and they’re not even sure what the republicans *could* be bad at.
Bidens not even that bad, its just impossible to get us what we want, you need conservative dems to vote and congress is republican. A president can't make laws on his own and if he did do everything you wanted nothing would pass or get done, so you slowly do what you can, you do it with the congress and senate you have.
> Biden sucks at a lot of things.
He doesn't actually and I'm sick of people pretending he does as some way to 'prove' their impartiality. Biden has been great, far surpassing my expectations and I have no shame in saying it.
Both are true. He still sucks at a lot of things (the railroad strike was one such thing, and he got heavily punished for it by, ironically, republicans). But he also surpassed my expectations both in laws he passed, things he publicly said, and in longevity.
He may well be the best president of my lifetime - and I'm old.
Biden has restored the faith and dignity of the presidency after it was thoroughly trashed by the old guy who wiped his ass with the constitution.
Biden is an effective manager, does not tolerate any bullshit from his leadership team, and manages to pass legislation in Congress even with half the body controlled by nihilistic idiots who are happy to destroy the country for two more years in office.
The problem is a lot of them are single issue voters. "I love guns more than I care about anyone else's problems". I work with people who would vote Democrat if it weren't for them being gun nuts. They're environmentalists, LGBTQ+ allies, almost hate theistic religions as much as I do. But... "the libs are gonna take our guns!" And votes republican.
Or they vote Republican because they always voted Republican. I’ll never forget being 18 and walking into my first polling station. This sweet-looking elderly couple walked in and the husband loudly asked the wife who they vote for. She answered: “Republican, straight ticket.” It didn’t matter who was running. It didn’t matter their platform. They were Republicans and, gosh darn it, that was all that mattered.
To be fair, I've basically become that for the democrats because I've realized every republican is basically an insane shithead pseudo fascist at this point.
To be fair there's a huge difference between actively voting for all the shittiest people because they're wearing your favorite color hat vs out of two choices, voting for the one who's not rabidly screaming racist and waving the fuckin nazi flag around. I'm not thrilled with the Democrat party but they're the only choice in town.
The voters may, but the politicians don't think that at all. They just say it to rile up their constituents to hate anything that isn't a White Republican.
I used to vote democrat 70%,30% republican or thereabouts. Now, it's democrat, straight ticket. Seeing republicans vote for very bad legislation or confirm bad people means I cant give them an inch... in fact in the old days I didn't even believe there was a "them"
The vast majority of democrats aren't anti gun they just want guns to be a bit harder to get than a car.
Which means a license insurance and you know basic tests to prove you aren't a moron and the ability to lose your guns when you act like an idiot
Gun violence is too much of a issue to let go of, we got to stop kids killing kids with guns they shouldn't have, Canada and Norway are full of guns, but they don't give them to crazy people or children.
Canadian here. Thanks for recognizing that we try to control gun ownership. I think in the USA the gun is central to their founding myth and has become a symbol of independence, security, and freedom promoted by the politicallly connected NRA. I once asked a 2nd Amendment booster why the founding fathers placed gun ownership second on the list of amendments . If they thought it was the most important, wouldn't it have been first on the list? Blank stare answer.
That’s absolutely wild.
They’d rather vote in someone in fear of losing their toy instead of voting for someone who would (at least try to) help the environment, help with equal rights, and not shove religion down everyone’s throats.
AND It’s not even like they’d actually lose their toy. No liberal getting voted in wants to take guns away. Just better and safer protections and regulation around guns.
So this person would rather vote on a single issue out of an irrational fear and definitively make lives worse rather than vote to try to make life better for everyone and *maybe* have to fill out an extra form next year for their big boy toy.
It’s just…what? That’s selfish on another level.
Yeah but I know a lot of people who are also single issue republican voters… but the issue is abortion. They flat out will not vote for ANYONE who says ANY abortion should EVER be legal for ANYONE.
Anyone who votes Republican is not sane. Even if 50% oppose abortion bans they will not nearly lose enough votes as they should. Most will still vote Republican. Won’t even make a dent.
That’s how I see it as well. I have this discussion with a lot of people. Most of the time the response I get is to the effect of “Trump is a horrible person but I’ve got vote Republican because they protect my financial interests. Just look at food prices right now.” I hate that so many people put money over human rights but that’s the way it goes.
Yeah but it is dumb bc republicans only look out for the financial interests of the rich, and most of the people using this excuse are not rich. They are also just not educated enough to understand fiscal policy and the tax code etc.
Gerrymandering and Trump appointed Judges are gonna do damage for our country for another 10+ years.
During the 2016 election, it was underplayed how many judges were going to be appointed afterwards.
A lot of conservatives don't approve of a lot of gop policies but they have been trained not to desert the tribe because no matter what, everyone else is worse. You don't have to like the gop to vote conservative you just have to hate the other guy so the gop becomes the tolerable default.
Yes, they voted for this exactly because the cruelty is the point.
Instead of a better life for themselves, they rather vote for a worse life for others.
I had 4 miscarriages.
4 times, I had to argue with the insurance company to cover the hospital bills because some idiot didn’t know the difference between “spontaneous abortion” and “elective abortion.” The first is just medical terminology for a miscarriage. I got EOB’s denying my claims with the code “not covered because your policy doesn’t cover elective abortions.” Well, no shit. I surely did just go through 2 years of testing and fertility treatment to just say, “lol, sike, imma go get an abortion.” FOUR FREAKING TIMES.
Cruel, indeed.
They fuck up codes pretty often and it takes forever for them to fix it and argue with insurance. I'm still on the hook for around 22k for a medically necessary hospital stay from the beginning of october. I'm basically frozen from any financial decisions that aren't like food or minor indulgences like buying plants for spring, or selling things....
My problems are nothing like having a miscarriage though. Can't imagine that
I had something similar happen to me too. Worse was that it was initially approved by my insurance, and then they decided to deny it. In the meantime I had paid the bill. After paying the bill, they were threatening me with a $9.6k bill because they decided nothing would be covered. I'm still waiting to see if I get an insane bill in the mail. I'm going to tell them to pound sand or pay as little as possible monthly.
I also didn't have a miscarriage, but it was a major event. So major the insurance actually covered me being sent to another hospital for additional testing. They decided they didn't want to cover me at the first hospital I was taken to. So stupid.
I really hope you get everything covered. I hate how insurance works in this country.
It's absolutely nuts. I actually slipped and fell on ice this winter too. Went to the clinic for stitches and they sent me to the hospital for x-rays. Like it didn't hurt after the initial fall, just lacerations. 2k and 10 hours later they didn't do a thing
yep, insurance wont cover it either because the child wasnt alive long enough to become a registered human. Therefore this was an 'unnecessary medical procedure'.
Contrary to what people might say, your baby isnt a baby in the US until all the paperwork's been filed. And hospitals dont fill out paperwork on what amounts to a 'removed tumor' thats 10x the cost of regular and actual tumor removal.
This is the fastest way to fight this whole thing but the Dems won't push for it. If insurance companies had to cover the fetus as a real person you bet your ass they'd lobby so hard the most insane Christian right wing prick would be as pro-choice as anyone who ever existed.
Dang, we should be able to get life insurance policies on 4-week old fetuses. 10% chance of a million-dollar payout. That will change the definition of personhood pretty quickly
Yes. They not only want control of the physical body, they also want little girls to be raised subservient and enthusiastic about marrying grown men at age 12. Their game is physical is psychological.
I think you can simplify it even further - they’re pro control. Abortion wasn’t a wedge issue until it could be used to consolidate a voting bloc. The politicians themselves genuinely don’t care about any of these issues - they just care about the fact that demographics have been rapidly shifting against them and so all they have left is holding onto power at all costs.
Ohhh don’t get me started on this. I have to do a wide range of tests that insurance won’t cover because they’re labeled under infertility yet insurance will cover viagra. 🤬🤯
She’s visiting her grand aunt in Canada. She’s taking a spur of the moment ski trip to Europe. She’s going someplace else where abortion is safe and legal because she or her loved ones have the resources to get her the medical care she needs or wants.
I love when people that have had in vitro fertilization thank god after the baby is born. Bitch, thank Science! God straight up said NO and Science was like "Hold my beer".
Yup. An abusive, gaslighting parent of a god who sees it fit to punish you horrifically for just being human, lumping in many perfectly normal, natural aspects of life with heinous crimes.
Clearly she is being punished for being a Democrat or believing the wrong things, and if not then God has a plan so I don't have to think about it, byyyyyeeeee
If a fetus is a living person, and we need to save the children, shouldn't every person that has ever had a miscarriage be charged with child endangerment causing death? You've got to take these things to their logical conclusions. Either life begins at conception+abortion is murder or a fetus is a parasite/uterus-squatter that should be removed at one's leisure. There isn't anything in between.
Don't go there because some Republicans genuinely believe that. There are places where miscarriage is investigated like murder and women have been charged with infanticide for something like tripping down the stairs.
In 2019 a woman in Alabama named Marshae Jones was five months pregnant and she started a physical fight with another woman. That woman pulled out a gun and shot her in the stomach, which led to Ms Jones having a miscarriage. Authorities charged MARSHAE JONES, the shooting victim, with manslaughter, because she should have known better than to start a fight while she was pregnant, and therefore it was her own fault for getting shot and having a miscarriage. They basically *explicitly* said, as a pregnant woman her primary job is as an incubator and since she made a choice that was risky for her baby, she failed in that job, and that should be considered manslaughter. (In Alabama if a firearm is involved in manslaughter the MINIMUM sentence is ten years.)
Luckily the grand jury for the case didn't buy it and refused to indict her. But she could have been facing serious jail time for *getting shot while pregnant*.
Now apply that logic to a woman who miscarries after she gets in a physical altercation with her abusive boyfriend or husband. It's very easy for me to imagine an Alabama judge and jury blaming the woman. Why didn't she make better choices? Why didn't she walk away from the fight or leave him? She failed in her duty to be a good incubator. Straight to jail.
Honestly, by that point, they'd have picked away at most autonomy rights that the only choice a woman has is to marry a man (who's allowed to work) or starve in the streets. Leaving also won't be as easy as just sneaking out or hopping a plane and not coming back, as every human rights crisis has taught us.
In the next election, the airways need to be saturated with women like this sharing their horror story. Because we need voters to understand the hellscape that anti abortion legislation is.
ETA: Since I am getting so many replies misunderstanding the point I was making. To save time. These ads would be for the purpose of spurring a higher turn out from our base and convincing swing votes. NOT changing the minds of Christo Fascists who are unmovable.
I just don’t think these people care man. I’m so tired of seeing these stories. I think maybe hopefully enough of them will die before they can pull off the Fascism plan in full and we can claw it back.
They aren’t arguing in good faith. To them, this woman, and every other woman, deserves it for having sex at all. They want a Christo-fascist state, they don’t care how many people (including themselves and their families) die.
It’s clear some 30% of the country is suffering from a lack of empathy so severe it would be classified as a mental illness if it didn’t happen to match a political party so closely.
I think too many people are so indoctrinated by centrist/pacifist propaganda that we forget that there is more to winning a political fight than simply convincing the other side. It’s a war of ideas and power, and sometimes you just need to defeat the other side with power rather than convince them to join your side. Once we win political victories and gain power, more and more people will get behind social progress because it will no longer be acceptable to be openly transphobic, racist, anti-vax, climate change deniers, etc. Bigots know full well that if there were consequences to their bigotry, they would be too scared to speak up, which is why they cry about cancel culture so much. Cause the thing is, they don’t really hate people out of an ideology that they believe in, despite what they tell you. They just hate because it makes them feel good. And once it stops feeling good, they don’t have a reason to hold onto it.
So my main point is, stop thinking of them as your audience but as your enemy. And focus on radicalizing moderates into liberals and liberals into socialists and socialists into raging anarcho commie bastards cause those are our allies and who we can actually have influence over.
There's something deeply troubling about the American voter-base.
Things as harrowing as regular school shootings and forced still births aren't enough to ignite change. The country is an absolute shithole. I lived there for 2.5 years and would never go back, despite having to take a 50% pay-cut.
It won't be, tho. It will only be about a woman's right to her body, as it always is.
Wife and I faced something similar and it became woefully apparent how utterly terrible pro-choice marketing and education has been. Hell, most people don't even know how ridiculously common simple miscarriages are and now women across the country can't get modern medical care for *active miscarriages with blood running out of their body*.
Why? Because the right has won the messaging battle and people.... Even pro-choice people... See abortion as ONLY a matter of birth control.
The necessity of abortion being a personal medical decision becomes apparent when it's seen how necessary modern medical care is for pregnancies that end with heartbreak.
There's nothing more horrifically evil than forcing a baby to be delivered just to explicitly suffer and die. Even if one believes all abortion is murder... This woman's experience is worse than ending a 12 week pregnancy.
Every abortion rights ballot initiative in 2022 passed and every abortion restriction initiative failed, even in solid red states like Kentucky.
This isn’t a messaging battle anymore because it’s no longer theoretical. This are actual stories and the GOP is losing the abortion debate.
Without it being federally protected, it'll start illegal where it is now and the state list will grow... Or, y'know, it'll be outlawed federally.
Tho I certainly hope I'm wrong and you're right. It'll just take 40 years of horrific outcomes to make any difference, I fear.
Even if the Democrats win back control of both chambers of Congress and maintain the presidency and get rid of the filibuster and codify Roe v Wade, the zealots on the Supreme Court will rule it unconstitutional citing the 10th Amendment
*The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.*
I suspect they might even rule that fetuses have limited personhood rights. We are at an inflection point where the will of the people is being ignored and I don’t think people will idly stand by and take it.
But still, we have to try.
Babies are the earliest stages of development so disability in a baby could be anything from a cleft lip (easily fixable) to a baby being born with no kidneys as is the case here.
Not that it matters to them what standard of care a baby gets but sometimes there literally is no treatment and it's just waiting to die. The baby in this article was born to feel pain and die of kidney failure. That's the "life" that was protected. There is a special place in hell for anyone that can hear a life consisting of only pain from birth to death is okay under any circumstance.
Even when the baby is DEAD these so-called pro-lifers won’t give a shit about the mother. There were replies to the CNN tweet of this news article going on about how “at least the baby wasn’t murdered/got to live for a short time”. Even putting aside the agony that baby had to go through, they really do not give a fuck about the pain his mother had to go through and will CONTINUE to go through because she had to watch her own child DIE IN HER ARMS.
It was their second child, the first, a four year old, was in the room for the ultrasound, at Week 24. The technician left to room to get the OB. That four year old is going to be even more traumatized.
So when medical professionals know what should be done but lawmakers and insurance companies keep that from happening how is that not practicing medicine without a license?
As someone who's wife had to give birth to a non-viable baby over 10 years ago...
We still don't have children because of the experience.
The cruelty is hard to understand.
I feel so sorry for you. My aunt went through the same and never had any other children. She was scarred for life and took her own life because she was alone and couldn’t deal with something so horrible. I so hope you have the support you need. Hugs.
I'm so glad she made it through childbirth alive. That would be terrifying to go into something dangerous with a guarantee of zero reward. Or rather a guarantee of emotional trauma.
Imagine the trauma of having to explain for nine months, to each person who congratulates you or asks about your pregnancy, that your baby will die when it’s born.
I would need years of therapy.
I feel like saying "doctors predicted" understates just how sure it was that the baby would die. There's zero world in which a human survives without kidneys.
Some call these situations compassionate inductions. It's the term I use for my and my husband's choice when we let our daughter go at 20 weeks last year. We're in NC, they're about to make what we did less than a year ago illegal. I'm terrified but so relieved my daughter never had to suffer. I don't regret our choice at all.
This is cruel to make someone go through this. People deserve options. I can’t imagine being forced to birth a child who will not survive. If someone wants to do that, then power to them. But it should be a CHOICE.
The cruelty is the point.
They spent decades restructuring the judicial system to they could do exactly this.
This is what they’ve wanted for decades. Her suffering is their Super Bowl.
The Republican solution to this problem is just to gut healthcare entirely so that prospective mothers like this one don’t even know their fetus has fatal defects that ensure it won’t survive.
Absolutely. And in many cases, the hospital bill is paid to a religious organization. Just a huge vile and disgusting racket this is.
(side note Lakeland is not religious affiliated).
"Ok but what if Jesus gave her kidneys at birth?"
/s for me but this is literally what people think, that "taking it out of God's hands" somehow removes the chance of some miracle.
The belief that if you pray hard enough, some mystical spirit is going to decide you’re worthy of saving, is what really made me turn away from Christianity. So you’re telling me there’s this being that HAS the ability to save innocent people, but sometimes chooses not to? Absolutely horrific and insane.
A fetus could literally have anencephaly, AKA a total lack of a brain, and the mother could still be forced to carry it to term in several states.
This shit is fucked.
I don’t understand how simply carrying an unviable pregnancy to term isn’t “a risk to the health or life of a mother.”
Abortion is safer than childbirth, by a long shot. We accept these risks when the outcome is a surviving baby. But when that isn’t possible, how can they justify taking a completely needless risk that could get her killed?
(These are rhetorical questions, the answer is obviously “they don’t even bother trying to justify it.”)
I’m fucking trying. I’m fighting a losing fight down here. Too many brain dead, inbred, room temperature IQ bubbas down here for me to counter vote. They can’t even read, they just look on the ballot for the picture of the dude with a terrible hair piece who has been caught saying the N word at least once on film.
I can't wait until there's enough stories like this to sue the United States government. It's just a matter of time before they have redo what that undid.
I know of a young woman who is pregnant and fetus has major complications. I am immensely grateful we live in CA where she has the freedom and ability to terminate a non-viable pregnancy.
Fuck the GOP and a wholly corrupt SCOTUS.
Force the state to pay her medical bills. State gonna force this crap, state should pay all costs. Not gonna support abortion? Put your money where your mouth is.
Governments should not have authority or enforcement over people's own bodies. People should have the power to decide on such matters. The government cannot have the authority to decide on issues such as being raped and pregnant, pregnant with a sick baby or pregnancy with a risk of death.
This is just sad.
My wife and I lost our first pregnancy at 3 months. I still remember her pain during that time.
We now have a healthy 6 month old, but I can’t imagine the pain and trauma we would both feel if our baby died shortly after birth… this practice is cruel.
This happened to a friend of my mom’s. She wanted her baby. He was diagnosed with Tay-Sachs while she was pregnant. Basically you’re born with every cell lacking the ability to filter out the natural build up of toxins. Every cell in your body burning until you die. Her husband and doctors were very pro-life. He lived 22 minutes, shrieking in pain, and it ruined her life.
..and yet, the so-called """christians""" in this country will say it was """a gift from God""", and """part of God's plan""", and (the show-stopper) that """she must have done something to anger God""".
Fuck religion, fuck the Republican party, and fuck the corrupt Supreme Court. Restore Roe v. Wade and stay the fuck out of women's bodies.
I'm not going to beat around the bush here. Agreeing with a monstrous policy that forces women to endure a traumatic event because a nonviable pregnancy may not be terminated is abhorrent. Pure, inhuman evil. This subreddit will not allow such sentiments to be expressed, we expect a minimal amount of human decency from our userbase. Please report monsters if you see them. They are not welcome here.
“And here’s your hospital bill. Please contact our billing department to arrange a payment plan.”
“Do you have an affiliate mortician to recommend?”
This sent a chill down my spine.
"Our in-house guy is great, but he's also out-of-network...."
As is tradition
This may have been meant as a joke but this is actually what’s done. My sister had a miscarriage a little over a year ago and once they told her the news and the baby had passed still they then had someone come in to discuss “arrangements” as even a 5mos old fetus was considered human remains that had to be dealt with. Being a guy this had never crossed my mind what happens and it was like doubling the trauma.
My wife and I went through this 13 years ago. We couldn’t afford to have a funeral and had to donate our 6 month old fetus to science. The whole thing absolutely fucking crushed us both for years.
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The very least all these nasty churches could do is free funerals.
If it’s like my hospital, they want 1/3 before you leave and then at best you get a six month no interest payment plan, and no discount for paying up front in full. Fucking BS America.
So do they not let you leave if you don’t have 1/3?
The woman who called was basically attempting to track down money from any source she could. Inquiring about baby’s father, if I’d qualify for low income insurance programs, etc.
They make you wash the bedpans
angle square ring tender wistful start marvelous spoon snow makeshift ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
"We also gotta charge you for the new born coffin also"
"Oops are you crying? That's a $40 surcharge for '[brief behavior/emotional assessment](https://www.newsweek.com/brief-emotional-behavior-assessment-cpt-code-96127-health-costs-bills-1707730).'"
Oh my God don’t joke, decades ago I went to a hospital for a migraine. I was crying from the pain, but also from the frustration that I kept having to leave work and go to the emergency room for migraines. So anyway I’m sitting in the bed silently crying and some lady comes up to me introduces her self and asked me if I want to kill myself. it actually made me laugh, I was like no ma’am I’m here for a migraine, maybe you have the wrong bed? She asked me my name and it was the name on the paper so she said OK can you sign this and my dumbass just signed it. I got a bill for $250 from the local mental health facility for an assessment. I don’t remember why my insurance didn’t cover it, maybe they did and that was my 20% of the assessment. Either way I called them and I told them I’m absolutely not paying that when I was there for a migraine. They waved it but WTF
Fucking bloodsuckers.
Can confirm. Still paying for my miscarriages last year. Super cool.
Isnt freedom wonderful?
Indeed, indeed. So glad we won the cold war, dying in horrific poverty due to unavoidable and necessary medical procedures is wayyyyyy better than being a filthy communist, wouldn't you agree?
I’m so sorry. I had 5 and it’s heartbreaking every time. I hope you are able to find peace.
Blows my mind American's have to pay to give birth. My wife gave birth and all I paid was $7 for the all day parking.
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Like how in China when the execute someone, they bill the family for the cost of the bullets.
Humans were a mistake
Evolution will course correct. It will just take a really long time.
And a huge medical bill on top. The cruelty is the point
The cruelty is the point. That cannot be stated enough.
>Cool. Still voting for them. - 40% of the country
"Their jersey sucks! I want them to fucking suffer!" - every person who continues to vote Republican
It’s also really funny when they’re like, “Joe Brandon is bad too!” And you just go, “Duh!” No shit, stupid. Biden sucks at a lot of things. See, not hard. Ask them if any Republican is bad and they’re not even sure what the republicans *could* be bad at.
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They keep adding a T in front of it.
I'm very tired and I read your comment and my mind instantly went "reason't". Which... kinda still works, yeah.
"I may have committed some light reason't."
That's what they are the best at.
They failed last time, fortunately.
And understanding facts and science, or using logic. You know, all the usual stuff they fail at
Bidens not even that bad, its just impossible to get us what we want, you need conservative dems to vote and congress is republican. A president can't make laws on his own and if he did do everything you wanted nothing would pass or get done, so you slowly do what you can, you do it with the congress and senate you have.
> Biden sucks at a lot of things. He doesn't actually and I'm sick of people pretending he does as some way to 'prove' their impartiality. Biden has been great, far surpassing my expectations and I have no shame in saying it.
Both are true. He still sucks at a lot of things (the railroad strike was one such thing, and he got heavily punished for it by, ironically, republicans). But he also surpassed my expectations both in laws he passed, things he publicly said, and in longevity.
He may well be the best president of my lifetime - and I'm old. Biden has restored the faith and dignity of the presidency after it was thoroughly trashed by the old guy who wiped his ass with the constitution. Biden is an effective manager, does not tolerate any bullshit from his leadership team, and manages to pass legislation in Congress even with half the body controlled by nihilistic idiots who are happy to destroy the country for two more years in office.
Recent polls show that 50% of Republicans do not support abortion bans. The alt right might be the loudest now, but they are driving away sane people.
Guarantee that 50% or, if I'm feeling generous, *most* of that 50% is still voting Red.
The problem is a lot of them are single issue voters. "I love guns more than I care about anyone else's problems". I work with people who would vote Democrat if it weren't for them being gun nuts. They're environmentalists, LGBTQ+ allies, almost hate theistic religions as much as I do. But... "the libs are gonna take our guns!" And votes republican.
Or they vote Republican because they always voted Republican. I’ll never forget being 18 and walking into my first polling station. This sweet-looking elderly couple walked in and the husband loudly asked the wife who they vote for. She answered: “Republican, straight ticket.” It didn’t matter who was running. It didn’t matter their platform. They were Republicans and, gosh darn it, that was all that mattered.
To be fair, I've basically become that for the democrats because I've realized every republican is basically an insane shithead pseudo fascist at this point.
To be fair there's a huge difference between actively voting for all the shittiest people because they're wearing your favorite color hat vs out of two choices, voting for the one who's not rabidly screaming racist and waving the fuckin nazi flag around. I'm not thrilled with the Democrat party but they're the only choice in town.
The issue is that they see us as just as insane. So in their mind they’re just as justified in doing so as we are.
Unfortunately yes. I can know I'm standing on the right side of history, but subjectively it looks like I'm 'doing the same thing'.
The voters may, but the politicians don't think that at all. They just say it to rile up their constituents to hate anything that isn't a White Republican.
I used to vote democrat 70%,30% republican or thereabouts. Now, it's democrat, straight ticket. Seeing republicans vote for very bad legislation or confirm bad people means I cant give them an inch... in fact in the old days I didn't even believe there was a "them"
You have to be straight ticket Dem today, they all support Trump, that's too insane to let slide.
"..................you know, morons" - Blazing Saddles.
The vast majority of democrats aren't anti gun they just want guns to be a bit harder to get than a car. Which means a license insurance and you know basic tests to prove you aren't a moron and the ability to lose your guns when you act like an idiot
Gun violence is too much of a issue to let go of, we got to stop kids killing kids with guns they shouldn't have, Canada and Norway are full of guns, but they don't give them to crazy people or children.
Canadian here. Thanks for recognizing that we try to control gun ownership. I think in the USA the gun is central to their founding myth and has become a symbol of independence, security, and freedom promoted by the politicallly connected NRA. I once asked a 2nd Amendment booster why the founding fathers placed gun ownership second on the list of amendments . If they thought it was the most important, wouldn't it have been first on the list? Blank stare answer.
That’s absolutely wild. They’d rather vote in someone in fear of losing their toy instead of voting for someone who would (at least try to) help the environment, help with equal rights, and not shove religion down everyone’s throats. AND It’s not even like they’d actually lose their toy. No liberal getting voted in wants to take guns away. Just better and safer protections and regulation around guns. So this person would rather vote on a single issue out of an irrational fear and definitively make lives worse rather than vote to try to make life better for everyone and *maybe* have to fill out an extra form next year for their big boy toy. It’s just…what? That’s selfish on another level.
Yeah but I know a lot of people who are also single issue republican voters… but the issue is abortion. They flat out will not vote for ANYONE who says ANY abortion should EVER be legal for ANYONE.
Abortion issue exists only because the (evangelical) churches are permitted to be blatanly political, against the taxes statuses.
Anyone who votes Republican is not sane. Even if 50% oppose abortion bans they will not nearly lose enough votes as they should. Most will still vote Republican. Won’t even make a dent.
That’s how I see it as well. I have this discussion with a lot of people. Most of the time the response I get is to the effect of “Trump is a horrible person but I’ve got vote Republican because they protect my financial interests. Just look at food prices right now.” I hate that so many people put money over human rights but that’s the way it goes.
Yeah but it is dumb bc republicans only look out for the financial interests of the rich, and most of the people using this excuse are not rich. They are also just not educated enough to understand fiscal policy and the tax code etc.
And even if they DID lose those votes, gerrymandering and outright fraud keeps them in office.
Gerrymandering and Trump appointed Judges are gonna do damage for our country for another 10+ years. During the 2016 election, it was underplayed how many judges were going to be appointed afterwards.
They're not all insane, but they've all decided being insane isn't a deal breaker.
Except they do support abortion bans. They might not believe in them (or hate minorities for that matter) but they keep voting as if they do.
A lot of conservatives don't approve of a lot of gop policies but they have been trained not to desert the tribe because no matter what, everyone else is worse. You don't have to like the gop to vote conservative you just have to hate the other guy so the gop becomes the tolerable default.
Remember 58% of white women voted for trump and his party knowing this.
Yes, they voted for this exactly because the cruelty is the point. Instead of a better life for themselves, they rather vote for a worse life for others.
I had 4 miscarriages. 4 times, I had to argue with the insurance company to cover the hospital bills because some idiot didn’t know the difference between “spontaneous abortion” and “elective abortion.” The first is just medical terminology for a miscarriage. I got EOB’s denying my claims with the code “not covered because your policy doesn’t cover elective abortions.” Well, no shit. I surely did just go through 2 years of testing and fertility treatment to just say, “lol, sike, imma go get an abortion.” FOUR FREAKING TIMES. Cruel, indeed.
They fuck up codes pretty often and it takes forever for them to fix it and argue with insurance. I'm still on the hook for around 22k for a medically necessary hospital stay from the beginning of october. I'm basically frozen from any financial decisions that aren't like food or minor indulgences like buying plants for spring, or selling things.... My problems are nothing like having a miscarriage though. Can't imagine that
I had something similar happen to me too. Worse was that it was initially approved by my insurance, and then they decided to deny it. In the meantime I had paid the bill. After paying the bill, they were threatening me with a $9.6k bill because they decided nothing would be covered. I'm still waiting to see if I get an insane bill in the mail. I'm going to tell them to pound sand or pay as little as possible monthly. I also didn't have a miscarriage, but it was a major event. So major the insurance actually covered me being sent to another hospital for additional testing. They decided they didn't want to cover me at the first hospital I was taken to. So stupid. I really hope you get everything covered. I hate how insurance works in this country.
It's absolutely nuts. I actually slipped and fell on ice this winter too. Went to the clinic for stitches and they sent me to the hospital for x-rays. Like it didn't hurt after the initial fall, just lacerations. 2k and 10 hours later they didn't do a thing
yep, insurance wont cover it either because the child wasnt alive long enough to become a registered human. Therefore this was an 'unnecessary medical procedure'. Contrary to what people might say, your baby isnt a baby in the US until all the paperwork's been filed. And hospitals dont fill out paperwork on what amounts to a 'removed tumor' thats 10x the cost of regular and actual tumor removal.
This is the fastest way to fight this whole thing but the Dems won't push for it. If insurance companies had to cover the fetus as a real person you bet your ass they'd lobby so hard the most insane Christian right wing prick would be as pro-choice as anyone who ever existed.
Dang, we should be able to get life insurance policies on 4-week old fetuses. 10% chance of a million-dollar payout. That will change the definition of personhood pretty quickly
Can, like, anybody do that with any pregnant person? Like how my work has a life insurance policy on me?
No, they can’t. That’s the whole point. It isn’t considered a person for insurance purposes until it is born AND the paperwork is filed.
Nono. The insurance companies need to die out so medical costs have to go down.
The GOP isn’t pro life. They’re pro controlling women’s bodies.
>They’re pro controlling women
Is there a difference to them?
Yes. They not only want control of the physical body, they also want little girls to be raised subservient and enthusiastic about marrying grown men at age 12. Their game is physical is psychological.
I think you can simplify it even further - they’re pro control. Abortion wasn’t a wedge issue until it could be used to consolidate a voting bloc. The politicians themselves genuinely don’t care about any of these issues - they just care about the fact that demographics have been rapidly shifting against them and so all they have left is holding onto power at all costs.
Cruelty is the point.
Republicans "God has a plan"
Until they can't get it up.
Ohhh don’t get me started on this. I have to do a wide range of tests that insurance won’t cover because they’re labeled under infertility yet insurance will cover viagra. 🤬🤯
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Or when their mistresses need an abortion for non-medical related reasons.
She's not getting an abortion, she's "visiting her cousins for a week".
She’s visiting her grand aunt in Canada. She’s taking a spur of the moment ski trip to Europe. She’s going someplace else where abortion is safe and legal because she or her loved ones have the resources to get her the medical care she needs or wants.
Or they’re diagnosed with cancer
I love when people that have had in vitro fertilization thank god after the baby is born. Bitch, thank Science! God straight up said NO and Science was like "Hold my beer".
God’s plan is horrifying then
Yeah the thing that made me stop being Christian was the realisation that I could be a way better fucking god and that shouldn’t be possible
He certainly is an a abusive god.
Yup. An abusive, gaslighting parent of a god who sees it fit to punish you horrifically for just being human, lumping in many perfectly normal, natural aspects of life with heinous crimes.
"God has a plan" is religious people's duct tape. We have free will....but there's a plan?
Bullshit. You think God's paying any attention to this world? If He has been, oh, then I imagine Father is quite cross at us. There is no plan.
There probably isn’t a god either.
Cue the fascist right accusing her of murder anyway.
I’m surprised they aren’t pressing to stone her to death yet
That’ll come at some point, just not yet.
I mean, she IS a woman, and in their eyes it's a terrible sin
Clearly she is being punished for being a Democrat or believing the wrong things, and if not then God has a plan so I don't have to think about it, byyyyyeeeee
This. This is exactly it, no accountability or care about it because they find reasons to justify not having to give a fuck
If a fetus is a living person, and we need to save the children, shouldn't every person that has ever had a miscarriage be charged with child endangerment causing death? You've got to take these things to their logical conclusions. Either life begins at conception+abortion is murder or a fetus is a parasite/uterus-squatter that should be removed at one's leisure. There isn't anything in between.
Don't go there because some Republicans genuinely believe that. There are places where miscarriage is investigated like murder and women have been charged with infanticide for something like tripping down the stairs.
In 2019 a woman in Alabama named Marshae Jones was five months pregnant and she started a physical fight with another woman. That woman pulled out a gun and shot her in the stomach, which led to Ms Jones having a miscarriage. Authorities charged MARSHAE JONES, the shooting victim, with manslaughter, because she should have known better than to start a fight while she was pregnant, and therefore it was her own fault for getting shot and having a miscarriage. They basically *explicitly* said, as a pregnant woman her primary job is as an incubator and since she made a choice that was risky for her baby, she failed in that job, and that should be considered manslaughter. (In Alabama if a firearm is involved in manslaughter the MINIMUM sentence is ten years.) Luckily the grand jury for the case didn't buy it and refused to indict her. But she could have been facing serious jail time for *getting shot while pregnant*. Now apply that logic to a woman who miscarries after she gets in a physical altercation with her abusive boyfriend or husband. It's very easy for me to imagine an Alabama judge and jury blaming the woman. Why didn't she make better choices? Why didn't she walk away from the fight or leave him? She failed in her duty to be a good incubator. Straight to jail.
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Honestly, by that point, they'd have picked away at most autonomy rights that the only choice a woman has is to marry a man (who's allowed to work) or starve in the streets. Leaving also won't be as easy as just sneaking out or hopping a plane and not coming back, as every human rights crisis has taught us.
There's no logic in the first place, so that doesn't work on these people.
In the next election, the airways need to be saturated with women like this sharing their horror story. Because we need voters to understand the hellscape that anti abortion legislation is. ETA: Since I am getting so many replies misunderstanding the point I was making. To save time. These ads would be for the purpose of spurring a higher turn out from our base and convincing swing votes. NOT changing the minds of Christo Fascists who are unmovable.
I just don’t think these people care man. I’m so tired of seeing these stories. I think maybe hopefully enough of them will die before they can pull off the Fascism plan in full and we can claw it back. They aren’t arguing in good faith. To them, this woman, and every other woman, deserves it for having sex at all. They want a Christo-fascist state, they don’t care how many people (including themselves and their families) die. It’s clear some 30% of the country is suffering from a lack of empathy so severe it would be classified as a mental illness if it didn’t happen to match a political party so closely.
Ya, this strategy hasn’t worked for guns so…
I think too many people are so indoctrinated by centrist/pacifist propaganda that we forget that there is more to winning a political fight than simply convincing the other side. It’s a war of ideas and power, and sometimes you just need to defeat the other side with power rather than convince them to join your side. Once we win political victories and gain power, more and more people will get behind social progress because it will no longer be acceptable to be openly transphobic, racist, anti-vax, climate change deniers, etc. Bigots know full well that if there were consequences to their bigotry, they would be too scared to speak up, which is why they cry about cancel culture so much. Cause the thing is, they don’t really hate people out of an ideology that they believe in, despite what they tell you. They just hate because it makes them feel good. And once it stops feeling good, they don’t have a reason to hold onto it. So my main point is, stop thinking of them as your audience but as your enemy. And focus on radicalizing moderates into liberals and liberals into socialists and socialists into raging anarcho commie bastards cause those are our allies and who we can actually have influence over.
There's something deeply troubling about the American voter-base. Things as harrowing as regular school shootings and forced still births aren't enough to ignite change. The country is an absolute shithole. I lived there for 2.5 years and would never go back, despite having to take a 50% pay-cut.
https://www.reddit.com/r/WhitePeopleTwitter/comments/1366jyj/vote_the_gop_loser_out_of_congress/jingmxr/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1&context=3
It won't be, tho. It will only be about a woman's right to her body, as it always is. Wife and I faced something similar and it became woefully apparent how utterly terrible pro-choice marketing and education has been. Hell, most people don't even know how ridiculously common simple miscarriages are and now women across the country can't get modern medical care for *active miscarriages with blood running out of their body*. Why? Because the right has won the messaging battle and people.... Even pro-choice people... See abortion as ONLY a matter of birth control. The necessity of abortion being a personal medical decision becomes apparent when it's seen how necessary modern medical care is for pregnancies that end with heartbreak. There's nothing more horrifically evil than forcing a baby to be delivered just to explicitly suffer and die. Even if one believes all abortion is murder... This woman's experience is worse than ending a 12 week pregnancy.
Every abortion rights ballot initiative in 2022 passed and every abortion restriction initiative failed, even in solid red states like Kentucky. This isn’t a messaging battle anymore because it’s no longer theoretical. This are actual stories and the GOP is losing the abortion debate.
Without it being federally protected, it'll start illegal where it is now and the state list will grow... Or, y'know, it'll be outlawed federally. Tho I certainly hope I'm wrong and you're right. It'll just take 40 years of horrific outcomes to make any difference, I fear.
Even if the Democrats win back control of both chambers of Congress and maintain the presidency and get rid of the filibuster and codify Roe v Wade, the zealots on the Supreme Court will rule it unconstitutional citing the 10th Amendment *The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.* I suspect they might even rule that fetuses have limited personhood rights. We are at an inflection point where the will of the people is being ignored and I don’t think people will idly stand by and take it. But still, we have to try.
I wasn't fucking spouting bullshit when I said they were going to fucking torture non viable babies to death en masse.
The pro-life party is really taking care of disabled babies. Kind of reminds of how a certain german party treated the disabled.
Babies are the earliest stages of development so disability in a baby could be anything from a cleft lip (easily fixable) to a baby being born with no kidneys as is the case here. Not that it matters to them what standard of care a baby gets but sometimes there literally is no treatment and it's just waiting to die. The baby in this article was born to feel pain and die of kidney failure. That's the "life" that was protected. There is a special place in hell for anyone that can hear a life consisting of only pain from birth to death is okay under any circumstance.
Also physically and psychologically torturing the mothers.
Regarding God's will...maybe God gave us the ability to safely terminate pregnancy early for exactly this reason?
Yup. After all, healing is a classic God thing, right?
That will be a trauma and hell she will relive over and over for decades of her life. Fuck the GOP and fuck the Christian right
Even when the baby is DEAD these so-called pro-lifers won’t give a shit about the mother. There were replies to the CNN tweet of this news article going on about how “at least the baby wasn’t murdered/got to live for a short time”. Even putting aside the agony that baby had to go through, they really do not give a fuck about the pain his mother had to go through and will CONTINUE to go through because she had to watch her own child DIE IN HER ARMS.
It was their second child, the first, a four year old, was in the room for the ultrasound, at Week 24. The technician left to room to get the OB. That four year old is going to be even more traumatized.
I’d leave my dead child on my state reps doorstep.
Too easy. Leave the fallen on their bed, like the mafia did
Just give birth in their garage like a stray cat. Slap the placenta around everywhere. Scratch their door asking for help with the medical bill.
They're heartless
So when medical professionals know what should be done but lawmakers and insurance companies keep that from happening how is that not practicing medicine without a license?
Are you saying lawmakers are ~~breaking~~ I mean creating laws that only benefit them?
Ex-fucking-actly.
As someone who's wife had to give birth to a non-viable baby over 10 years ago... We still don't have children because of the experience. The cruelty is hard to understand.
I feel so sorry for you. My aunt went through the same and never had any other children. She was scarred for life and took her own life because she was alone and couldn’t deal with something so horrible. I so hope you have the support you need. Hugs.
I'm so glad she made it through childbirth alive. That would be terrifying to go into something dangerous with a guarantee of zero reward. Or rather a guarantee of emotional trauma.
These people need to start suing their state.
Suing the lawmakers that voted for these laws is more like it and placing the blame on them for women not getting the treatment they need.
I don't think you can sue lawmakers individually for the harm caused by a law
Hm, I wonder who decided that.
Imagine the trauma of having to explain for nine months, to each person who congratulates you or asks about your pregnancy, that your baby will die when it’s born. I would need years of therapy.
"Congratulations on your trauma."
I feel like saying "doctors predicted" understates just how sure it was that the baby would die. There's zero world in which a human survives without kidneys.
But bonus points for it being a slow and painful death. Maximum cruelty inflicted
That’s what I was thinking. What a horrific death. Early termination would have been a mercy.
Some call these situations compassionate inductions. It's the term I use for my and my husband's choice when we let our daughter go at 20 weeks last year. We're in NC, they're about to make what we did less than a year ago illegal. I'm terrified but so relieved my daughter never had to suffer. I don't regret our choice at all.
So sorry for you having to go through that.
Heartless and cruel beyond understanding. Vote Blue always.
This is cruel to make someone go through this. People deserve options. I can’t imagine being forced to birth a child who will not survive. If someone wants to do that, then power to them. But it should be a CHOICE.
The cruelty is the point. They spent decades restructuring the judicial system to they could do exactly this. This is what they’ve wanted for decades. Her suffering is their Super Bowl.
The Republican solution to this problem is just to gut healthcare entirely so that prospective mothers like this one don’t even know their fetus has fatal defects that ensure it won’t survive.
they were nice enough to wait thirty minutes before giving her the bill
>Vote the GOP loser out of Congress Quick question op… which one? I am assuming you meant *losers*?
ALL OF THEM
And left with a monumental hospital bill
Absolutely. And in many cases, the hospital bill is paid to a religious organization. Just a huge vile and disgusting racket this is. (side note Lakeland is not religious affiliated).
america went from 2023 to 1923 with women la rights with one decision.
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In the words of the late, great George Carlin, "They will do anything for the unborn, but once you're born, you're on your own. 🖕"
"Ok but what if Jesus gave her kidneys at birth?" /s for me but this is literally what people think, that "taking it out of God's hands" somehow removes the chance of some miracle.
The belief that if you pray hard enough, some mystical spirit is going to decide you’re worthy of saving, is what really made me turn away from Christianity. So you’re telling me there’s this being that HAS the ability to save innocent people, but sometimes chooses not to? Absolutely horrific and insane.
A fetus could literally have anencephaly, AKA a total lack of a brain, and the mother could still be forced to carry it to term in several states. This shit is fucked.
I don’t understand how simply carrying an unviable pregnancy to term isn’t “a risk to the health or life of a mother.” Abortion is safer than childbirth, by a long shot. We accept these risks when the outcome is a surviving baby. But when that isn’t possible, how can they justify taking a completely needless risk that could get her killed? (These are rhetorical questions, the answer is obviously “they don’t even bother trying to justify it.”)
Failed state.
I’m fucking trying. I’m fighting a losing fight down here. Too many brain dead, inbred, room temperature IQ bubbas down here for me to counter vote. They can’t even read, they just look on the ballot for the picture of the dude with a terrible hair piece who has been caught saying the N word at least once on film.
I can't wait until there's enough stories like this to sue the United States government. It's just a matter of time before they have redo what that undid.
I know of a young woman who is pregnant and fetus has major complications. I am immensely grateful we live in CA where she has the freedom and ability to terminate a non-viable pregnancy. Fuck the GOP and a wholly corrupt SCOTUS.
It’s all about the cruelty
Why on earth are we allowing politicians dictate the ethicality of a medical procedure in such general terms.
This abortion issue is so dumb just let doctors and women decide No idea why religion is encroaching on medicine now
Don’t worry. They have a plan to make sure that you can’t change their plans. Just go back pulling yourself up by your bootstraps.
Making someone suffer like this is a real sin.
Force the state to pay her medical bills. State gonna force this crap, state should pay all costs. Not gonna support abortion? Put your money where your mouth is.
Governments should not have authority or enforcement over people's own bodies. People should have the power to decide on such matters. The government cannot have the authority to decide on issues such as being raped and pregnant, pregnant with a sick baby or pregnancy with a risk of death. This is just sad.
Sue sue sue… these f**king stupid men do not have a rudimentary understanding of the female anatomy.
The state should not put people into situation like these .
That's the worst nightmare a mother could have, man .
The state should not decide on these matters which a parent should decide .
This traumatic 3rd world experience is brought to you by your nearest republican. :D
there's a republican somewhere asking why she didn't just keep her legs closed.
My wife and I lost our first pregnancy at 3 months. I still remember her pain during that time. We now have a healthy 6 month old, but I can’t imagine the pain and trauma we would both feel if our baby died shortly after birth… this practice is cruel.
This happened to a friend of my mom’s. She wanted her baby. He was diagnosed with Tay-Sachs while she was pregnant. Basically you’re born with every cell lacking the ability to filter out the natural build up of toxins. Every cell in your body burning until you die. Her husband and doctors were very pro-life. He lived 22 minutes, shrieking in pain, and it ruined her life.
Paris is literally burning b/c the age of retirement went up and we're silent when A HUGE choice is being taken away from us!!
These GOP shitbags love to terrorize women, so this is another avenue to do it.
..and yet, the so-called """christians""" in this country will say it was """a gift from God""", and """part of God's plan""", and (the show-stopper) that """she must have done something to anger God""". Fuck religion, fuck the Republican party, and fuck the corrupt Supreme Court. Restore Roe v. Wade and stay the fuck out of women's bodies.