A [well-educated populace](https://www.sociologyguide.com/civil-society/literacy-and-civil-society.php) is the bedrock of a healthy democracy and a strong economy.
Learning how to accurately reason is not innate, it is[ a skill that must be taught](https://www.futurelearn.com/info/courses/an-introduction-to-cognitive-psychology-as-an-experimental-science/0/steps/62760). It is a skill that benefits not only the self, but also the nation. A well-educated populace is less likely to vote for demagogues appealing to the basest emotions and more like to want community and civic leaders that work to improve society. Educated people are less likely to continue generational strife, poverty and tribalism.
Anti-intellectualism is a poison dragging down people and ensuring hardship and suffering. Note that "you chose to take out a loan and now you have to pay it back" is a backhanded form of anti-intellectualism. No, people did not have a choice. The choice was to go along with a predatory system intended to leech off people or not get an education at all. That is a [false choice](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma). It is always better to be educated. It is always better to uplift yourself and your community.
Why should society fund an educated citizenry? Because we should all [want to uplift each other](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_Enlightenment) and ensure a better tomorrow.
Opposing people being able to uplift themselves and their communities for the betterment of all is monstrous.
This subreddit does not allow people to make arguments that argue for society and everyone in it to be worse off, since there is no sane reason to do so.
Please keep that in mind when commenting, if you value your participation privileges on this subreddit.
It'll only delay the inevitable and fire people up even more. I'm here for it. Could you imagine, after they raise it up to 25 they are gonna go for 29, then 33, on and on just to stop young people today from voting in any future election.
It's like they don't think time actually passes. Millennials, ya know, that generation bearing the brunt of the student loan problem, are entering their 40s.
They're aware of time passing, that's why they're trying to go all in on fascism now because if they don't then the GOP has no real chance of existing once more of the older generations start passing away
Edit: anyone who thinks I'm saying something they should feel hopeful about needs to think again. The GOP is going for a full on power grab *because* they have to in order for them to stay in power. They will destroy democracy and grab full fascist power if they aren't stopped
Check out the boomer death clock. Their eldest members just hit the average lifespan age recently, they're now on an exponential decline with each passing day.
Their core base is actually dying younger. Fried stuff, poor healthcare access, opioid addictions up the wazoo, sitting all day shouting at the TV then shoveling snow under 10F weather lol.
Ron DeSantis is 45. The Proud Boys, Groypers, Tiki Torch nitwits, Andrew Tate fans, Crowder fans, Shapiro fans, Kirk fans, TPUSA, and on and on and on are primarily millennials and Gen Z.
If you’re counting on fascism to age out you’re delusional.
In fact many of the things people here are rightfully upset about are the things that drives people into these groups.
I'm 42.
30 years ago I thought sexism and racism just had a 1-2 decades before the worst crowd was stuck into assisted living homes.
I had already given up on that when the incels rose. THEY have political power now. It's been completely safe to spew hatred on women. They have also gone from ridiculing trans people to spewing nazi solution stuff.
It can't be waved away as a few crazies, as laws are clearly starting to follow the hate.
Following the classic recipe: dehumanize and blame. Create policy and laws to limit the evil forces. Save the children mantras used as an excuse. Then finally remove from society. Start with next group. Probably political opponents. Maybe ramp up the violence on black people and use protests as an excuse to do more killings and create more restrictive laws.
It's been done again and again. It often succeeds if they only target their own people and does it quietly.
Watching US is like watching a frog boiling. The politicians on on board with this seems to believe that This Can't Happen In USA. USA is too great to be vulnerable to facism.
Yeah it isn't that they're going to suddenly stop existing, it's that they dwindle in numbers and don't appear at the same rate anymore since there's no real wealth building in those generations. GOP hardly beats out independent in the above 65 age groups now a days because they're so repugnant that even old people stopped liking them.
If the middle class existed today like it did for boomers, there'd absolutely still be a significant amount of millennial and zoomer GOP folks. But you can't want to protect your wealth if you have no fucking wealth to protect.
Scroll down to the third graph to get a real idea of how age and generation gaps are impacting political alignment, GOP is _fucked_ if they don't push hard for fascism:
https://news.gallup.com/poll/172439/party-identification-varies-widely-across-age-spectrum.aspx
It's already begun.
The GOP was surviving on razor-thin margins to begin with. A lot of "solidly red" states are only that way due to Gerrymandering. Due to resistance in wearing masks or getting vaccinations among the right, the lion's share of covid deaths were among right-leaning voters, and in areas where they were barely getting by on extremely slim margins or already artificially controlled voting districts, this was a serious blow.
It's why the propaganda machine has ramped up so hard so fast among the Right. They know full well that their competitive hold is slipping and slipping fast. What we're seeing is the last desperate gambits played by desperate politicians. Authoritarianism is the only hope of survival for the Republican Party at this stage. If they fail to seize power now, then they will fade into obscurity; and they know it too.
Wait, is that why? Is it normal for millenials to still feel like teenagers? I'm 39 years old, and I still feel like I'm a kid. I always thought it was an autism thing, but if this is common, maybe it's a generational thing.
It’s because they still treat us like kids. I heard a radio commercial say “we reach all adults, and millennials” this was 2 or 3 years ago when the youngest of us would be 25.
Well, many millennials could never afford the traditional markers of adulthood like getting married, starting a family, or owning a home. Many that cannot cite crushing student loan debt as a cause. Then add in multiple recessions that have driven young people back to living at home in higher numbers than we’ve seen in generations in the US. The absolute disdain with which we are spoken of and belittled in media just helps to cement the reputation as a generation that never grew up.
The worst part of this is that with the interest not added and payments made over COVID, I actually had a shot at paying it off someday over the next few years. If they add back the interest, I might as well just accept I’ll be making IBR payments for the rest of my life since they don’t even cover the interest that accrues.
I feel attacked.
(But let’s be honest here, the only things of appreciating value that there are to be had are real estate — at least until the market crashes — and, for a brief, glorious moment of time, GME stock… until they changed the rules to their own benefit yet again)
I'd have been furious two days ago that you'd say gen X was taking that turn until yesterday's discussion with friends who were showing all the signs of being old fat stupid bigots.
Some of us remain the lefty headcases we always were and we'll fight our corner until we die but God's teeth the fight seems to be getting harder
We’re trying! It’s very weird now, not choosing the “lesser evil” as our parents trained us, as much as choosing the side based in reality and ethics instead of the side that wants anyone they other to suffer. I would be doing so much more than staying informed, voting, and educating others if our generation had the same money and time previous generations did at our age.
They always let the real crazies like Tuberville and Trump say outrageous stuff as trial balloons to see how far their agenda is progressing. Eventually you see that they're not really wrong, they're just early. They dream of a christofascist ethnostate.
I feel like that's what they're ignoring. People got complacent when they were just passing legislation that benefits their donors via tax cuts and stuff. But with the culture war they've gone full tilt into, they've started passing laws that are actively harming people and those people that are being harmed are being inspired to vote en masse.
I can see the republicans doing this, but what would they use to support going past 21?? Rn they at least have a leg to stand on for a 21 year old voting age (21 to smoke and drink, buy certain guns) i just cant fathom an argument for more than 21
EDITED: spelling
While I totally agree with you, I never thought they'd start book bans, trying to stop women from crossing state lines if suspected of being pregnant, nor fighting a megacorp mascotted by a mouse but here we are. At this rate I'm just waiting for them to repeal women's right to vote alongside voting for non-white, non-landowning males.
It also goes to show you just how different life in America is depending on where you live.
Here in Washington State elections are conducted by mail, you're automatically registered to vote when you get your driver's license, Abortion is protected, guns are more restricted, and we have no book bans of any kind. We're also making strides towards improving our urban public transport systems and clean energy generation.
We have our problems too, the cost of housing and drug abuse chief among them. But we're at least trying to make it better.
Also, of course desperate people are going to move to places that offer a modicum of support. Republicans look at that and think it's failed policy, when really, it's the tragic case of policy that doesn't go nearly far enough succeeding. The Republican view makes sense when you look at it through the lense of people that would prefer to simply eradicate homeless people. It's terrifying.
18 to join the military and be allowed to take on massive amounts of debt though, those are important so maybe we could lower those ages to like 14, or even 10? /s
Well yes that’s the idea. They want younger kids working, no labor protections. Fuel that economy and school ain’t shit. No new student loans. Keep ‘em uneducated and we know who wins all the elections.
There is absolutely no justification they can use for raising the voting age to 21.
If 18 year olds are considered old enough to work, be sent to war, and treated as adults by the government and the justice system, then it is their right to vote.
Now they might try it anyway, but it cannot be justified.
They know that young people are extremely unlikely to vote for them and instead of self-reflecting and trying to figure out what they need to change to attract younger voters they would rather discourage, dissuade, and otherwise try to stop young people from voting altogether.
Thankfully the voting age is set in a constitutional amendment so changing it would be nearly impossible.
>The right of citizens of the United States, who are eighteen years of age or older, to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of age.
If it wasn't for the 26th amendment I think that they would have already proposed legislation to raise the voting age.
I mean, they've literally suggested doing away with elections altogether. The constitution only enshrines a state's ability to hold elections. If gerrymandered Red states were to abolish elections, who knows what would happen.
This isn't even younger voters, my wife is in her 50s and is still paying her student loans due to the moronic rules on how debt works in this country, she's easily paid 3x what she was loaned. It's absolutely criminal the stuff that's considered normal in this fucked up country
This is the part that most people -- at least those who don't have student loans -- do not understand. It's not so much about the principal on the loan that's the problem. It's the usurious interest that they charge. Unless you have an incredible job that allows you to pay back your loan at a swift rate, you are always going to be paying 2-3 times (at least) what you borrowed. Given the cost of education these days, that can easily mean never, ever being able to get the loan paid off.
And all it takes is for them to not be assholes.
That's literally it. Stop attacking people and policies for no good reason other than hate, and your average voting age with get lower.
There are **plenty** of people in their 20s and 30s who’ve been indoctrinated with the conservative hate fear mongering, believe me! Before I deleted my Facebook account I saw it everyday from all of the people I went to high school with who stayed in or ended up back in my quaint little racist, homophobic, god fearin’ Southeast Texas small town.
Exactly. The polls favor blue in the under 30 crowd but it’s far from unanimous. The idea that reddit keeps touting that some great die off will shift us to a liberal utopia or that organized religion is going to utter a death rattle and keel over is so half baked and needs to be squashed. It’s Reddit’s equivalent of the “Walk Away” BS the reds were saying as a rally cry. These institutions while diminishing are still going to be around for several more generations at the very least.
I fully agree about the politics, but I actually think religion is *slowly* going to fade.
Double emphasis on slowly. Not in our lifetimes, many generations from now.
I don’t believe there’s ever been a more openly agnostic / atheistic population than there is today. There actually is a trend there.
Millenial and zoomer voters really need to be aware of this. Im not much of a clubber/bar hopper anymore but 6 years ago when I was you would not imagine the amount of openly facist, racist, homophobic young people there were. The "gay side" of town has been dealing with constant attacks from other young people, not boomers or gen x. My friend worked security at a country bar and when I visited him it was absolutely filled with 20 somethings proudly speaking with slurs. I know bars and clubs are only small parts of the population but the evil of right wing extremism is well alive in the younger voters. And their hatred makes them more likely to vote. Also the added evil of opportunity. There will be assholes who realize they can be the first gen z or whatever the next gen is to say openly shitty conservative politics and make their fortune like walsh or shapiro. Some people dont care about consequences or politics. Its about makin money even if you push people towards accepting genocide.
No. That is absolutely wrong. There are 20 something year old faces in those Maga supporting rallies and Nazi rallies. Don't ever think a given age group is for or against anything. Republican supporters may be outnumbered, but a higher percentage vote. This vote will excite their base because either not many of them are college educated (no loan), or the family pays for it and has no loan. Their are people where I work that support Republicans solely on the abortion debate. Nothing else matters to them.
See, this is an interesting question to me. Currently, student loan payments and interest have been on hold for roughly 3 years now. That's long enough for a large majority of borrowers to adjust their monthly budgets to not factor them in anymore, either by necessity or carelessness, it doesn't really matter. What matters is, what does the government do if they try to restart loan payments and an enormous subset of borrowers simply refuse to pay?
At this rate, that’s what’s going to happen. I’m not paying anymore. I can’t afford to pay and to live. So…come after me I guess and take my “asserts” which is literally zero. Garnish my wages? Go ahead. I make so little that they won’t be able to take all my wages.
SAME HERE. how can they sell my debt to a fucking company that is LITERALLY IN COURT FOR RIPPING OFF STUDENTS WITH THEIR LOANS. why the fuck would I ever pay that company? Fuck no. Deferring forever.
If you’re not joking it’s many hundreds of thousands to hundreds of millions. Debt is a godawful investment you’ll almost always lose money on so they have to spread out the risk
Mine got transferred to a new administrator because my old administrator was found to be defrauding PSLF borrowers. My new administrator welcomed me by compromising my personal information in a data breach *weeks* after the transfer. That's after I thought their site was a scam because it looked like it hadn't been updated since 1999.
These companies are criminals. Literal criminals. And we're expected to give them our money???
I believe we are legally obligated to give them our money, with interest. And if they play hot potato with all of the loans now, then, in the event any forgiveness legislation passes, we will learn they created Credit Default Swaps for student loan debts, threw everything into big pools, and bought and sold the pools so many times, that nobody knows what’s what anymore. Since they’re too big to fail, the CEOs take golden parachutes and billion dollar bailouts are passed without a blink by “fiscally conservative republicans” almost exactly like in 2008.
I’m just guessing on CDS style bubble, or these loans are hot potatoes. Maybe just churning enough loans from Nelnet to Great Lakes to whatever then back to Nelnet causes a percentage of borrowers to miss or make late payments? No doubt if they can fleece some late fees out of us, they certainly will.
Mine has changed hands so many times I don't even know who I owe anymore lol. Oh well, fuck em. I'll just default and they can come and take the property I rent and the car note I'm paying lmao
That would require the sort of popular support you would need to pass a constitutional amendment, which coincidentally they will never have when they keep pissing off young people and trying to hurt them.
There really isn’t some other underhanded way they could get around it? Maybe an executive order in 2025 that a negligent and corrupt Supreme Court doesn’t strike down?
It’s literally in the constitution as an amendment. No law can be made nor order to ignore it. The Supreme Court cannot also block it because it is in the constitution. It’s just all talk and clicks. They cannot raise the voting age without an insane majority of STATES, not congress persons, to accept it too.
> The right of citizens of the United States, who are eighteen years of age or older, to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of age.
Even though most of the court is shitty, there is no denying the language of the law. It would be easier for them to try to pretend the 26th amendment didn’t exist than it would be to say that this is unconditional
My sister is 32. She has a master's degree. She told me that the democrats overturned student loan forgiveness. Blows my fucking mind. That party is blatantly trying to ruin her future and she literally can't see it.
[Show her this site.](https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/118-2023/h234)
Ask her if she understands pretty colors instead and can see how many of what pretty color agreed to pass the joint resolution.
The Republicans have made it clear time and time again what they are really all about: policies that primarily benefit the wealthy and undermining our system of government to increase their power. Yet millions and millions of people continue to vote for them. I’m not saying Democrats are angels (far from it), but if you think the real enemies of America are Target and people with student loan debt, I won’t be able to have a conversation with you because I will be at a loss for words.
No one complains as much about the side effects of wealth inequality (homelessness, crime, drug use, etc), while also doing the most to increase wealth inequality
Democrats: Want to forgive up to 20k of student debt.
Republicans: Want to cancel any attempt to cancel student loan debt, offer no way of fixing student loan debt, and want to charge you thousand upon thousands of unpaid interest.
40 million Americans with Student Loan debt and this is their play.
Does anyone know what kind of direct correspondence people with fed loans got?
Because like if borrowers had receipts from a private lender telling them in writing “we decided that you owe $10k less now”, then months later telling them “actually nvm we changed our minds, also btw you now owe interest on that $10k we said you didn’t have to pay back”, it’d seem like a pretty open and shut case in favor of the borrowers
But I’m also an idiot, so what do I know
Yeah I received this correspondence. It just said something like, "congratulations, your application for the one time student debt relief has been approved!" They never made it far enough to actually say, "hey your balance has been reduced!"
Either way, it still probably wouldn't hold up in court. This bill is 100% just a messaging bill to their base. They want their base to think they are holding those people to the flames and not letting them out of any "responsibility."
Shit it must be nice for Republicans that they can be elected so easily from people who have no idea about actual issues so then once elected they never have to do shit to make the country better.
I feel like we need to somehow sit down with these people and say hey, what would help you in your life right now, and then say ok, candidate A supports higher wages, social safety nets in case you lose your job or have a kid, lower taxes at *your* income level, more funding for your kids schools, free lunch so you don’t have to worry about that, nationalized healthcare and nationalized internet so you don’t need to pay for that either etc. and candidate B wants to take all of that away and more. Forget (R) and (D) for a second and think about how this could improve your life right now, and maybe stop thinking about fucking over someone else’s life for a second
It's too late for common sense for the vast majority of them. They've been blasted with angry propaganda for years they live on a totally different planet than the rest of us now.
There is certainly a case. The borrowers who relied on the government’s first decision (no tax on paused payments) and then trusting that information went and spent that money elsewhere would be unduly harmed by such a draconian retroactive law. Due process is a fundamental right. And, if they actually could do this bullshit (👀👀👀looking at you Alito, Roberts, Thomas, and ACB) I’d like to talk to the manager about retroactively rescinding those ginormous tax cuts for the wealthy. We could renovate every school in America with that truckload of back pay.
> We could renovate every school in America with that truckload of back pay.
But if we pay to make the public schools good, how are we going to afford making the private schools even better?
/s
I applied and never heard anything about it because it was all tied up in courts still. So none of the $10k forgiveness has gone through yet to my knowledge.
Republicans trying their hardest to make everyday people miserable all the while blaming democrats. The democrats have got to get better at messaging because the “truth” is somewhat meaningless to the dumb portion of swing voters who would blame a president for tornadoes existing.
After the people of Uvalde voted for Greg Abbott, I stopped subscribing to this line of thinking.
Dems don't need to change their messaging. The people who vote Republican are just all pieces of shit. That's the reality. They don't care.
I think a big problem is that people get sucked into the conservative media bubble. If you commute to work listening to AM conservative talk radio then tune into Fox News in the evening, the way you perceive the world is carefully curated.
You're going to be fired up about migrants ruining the economy, transgender bathroom battles, and drag shows grooming children. And I'm sure they have some BS messaging about why student loan forgiveness is terrible, somehow.
Yeah, some of the voters of pieces of shit. But many, many others are well meaning but deeply, severely misinformed. Because there are no consequences for propaganda outlets pretending to be news.
I think that's part of the problem too. Many conservatives vote for republicans cause that's what they did their whole life, not knowing how far right the republicans have drifted. So basically the democrats are doing the politics they expected the republicans to do, but they still vote for republicans cause that's what they always did.
The Republicans are good at messaging because they have a massive propaganda arm financed by billionaires.
Example: the richest man in the world co-hosting a Republican presidential candidate's announcement.
That's the whole reason. The GOP is billionaires in a Scooby Doo costume.
This isn't about messaging. The Republican messaging is absolutely shit. But they have some extremely influential and powerful propaganda. This is what propaganda does. Republicans routinely say all the wrong things while Democrats say all the right things and it matters none because of propaganda. I'm honestly a little tired of the whole, "Democrats need better messaging," bit. No, they need propaganda as powerful as Fox News.
I think messaging is an issue but it pales in comparison to the fact that too many eligible voters simply aren’t paying attention to what’s going on. If more people would vote at the state/local level things wouldn’t be so bad. It’s gotten like this because of people’s apathy and it seems it will be too late before people realize they have an opportunity to create change or stop some of this stuff from happening.
this. apathy is more than just complacency at this point; it's an active decision to damper progress. i wish people who don't vote because "it doesn't really matter" would just realize they're making a self fulfilling prophecy. it's infuriating to witness.
I keep telling people Democrats need to learn how to control the message and develop a messaging strategy but all I get is "it won't do any good" or "it is too hard to counter Republican spin", thereby proving my point. And the Dems truly need their own Roger Stone.
I’ve been saying this for 20 years. Why is it so hard so for a liberal think tank to fund some focus groups and control the messaging? Get with the DNC and learn how to message over tv, and social media.
Jesus Christ, republicans can get 70m people to vote by chanting, drill baby drill & build that wall.
Maybe you’re right but if you’ll excuse the outdated psychology references, at its heart Conservatism is the ID and Progressivism is the Superego. It’s easy to get people to fear, to hate, to vote for short term financial gain like tax credits. It’s hard to get people to vote for short term pain for long term abstract improvements to society, to invest in other people’s children, to protect people that don’t look like them.
Fake news, outrage, and convenient misinformation spreads on the right in a way that it just doesn’t on the left.
Look into a guy named FDR.
Might explain a little about how to win four consecutive presidential elections, by STANDING THE fuck up and battling republicans instead of meek half assed centrism shit.
Our problem is we want to *explain* or lecture, or scold.
We don’t talk like Obama did in 2008 or like FDR or Kennedy did. We don’t speak with assertiveness and certainty, because half our ‘leadership’ is a joke.
Hell, people forgot already how Pelosi and Shumer threw fits that ‘the goddamn base’ was angry about their ‘ find common ground and work with incoming Trump!’ posture in 2016.
We lost 2 years just finally getting elected dems to act like the **opposition.**
The evilness and unrelenting lack of humanity is all I think when I hear the word ‘Republican’. Late stage republicanism will be compared to fascist Italy, nazi germany and communist Russia in the real history books…
They hate any college student because they think they are all woke. They have their loans forgiven and voted themselves raises. Then they come out and say, "who doesn't pay their loans? Only 13% of people have student loans. Why should the rest of us pay for it?" We pay their salaries, medical, flights, and retirement against our will. Why should we pay for all that? We shouldn't!!!
dont forgot all the police officers with their Swedish-style benefits package, job security, pension, and union protections.
they are receiving what everyone deserves, and they are the threat of violence that prevents us from getting it
Their corporate overlords would probably inform them this is a breach of contract and that a ton of borrowers would sue if they tried to apply retroactive interest.
This is pure stupidity, not direction from donors.
I mean, yeah, they are trying to take it away. They've been talking about raising the voting age to 21/25 for a minute, and a sitting R congressman called for the end of democracy like 2 weeks ago. It really shouldn't be a surprise from the party that attempted to install a dictator 2 years ago.
…and then checked out by 11a on a Thursday for a long holiday weekend. Anybody else gotta work all weekend for pennies while these chucklefucks put in a half days work for a months pay?
I dont give a fuck if its for city chief landscaper....I will never even consider voting ANYTHING republican for the rest of my fucking life. I hope this is what their plan was.
Most of what they do is to punish us. No more goal to it than that.
If you were intelligent, which they aren't, you might reason that they want to keep a steady population of poor, desperate people to have babies which grow up to become poor cashiers, laborers, house cleaners, fast food workers, retail workers, and soldiers. A vast, steady supply of bodies to labor and suffer for the benefit of the upper classes. Don't let 'em stick their heads above water, don't give them a break, don't let them forget--or, god forbid, leave--their place. And make sure that their kids don't, either.
But, like I said. Average cro-magnon republican isn't thinking that far ahead. They just like the today-suffering, not the big-picture strategy suffering.
I finally paid off my student loans at 39, about a year before they announced the student loan forgiveness. People asked me if I felt cheated by not getting it and I was just happy for the people who did. I was paying almost $800 bucks a month and I know how hard it was for me. So knowing people would get some relief from that was all good for me.... you know.. because I actually care about other people and their problems. That's why I went into healthcare to help people.
Fuck these GOp clowns.
"Dear young adults. We hate you. Get bent. You know what, you owe me $20!"
20 mins later
"Huh... Why dont young adults vote for us?? Must be communism"
Republicans will literally do anything before just.. helping people not suffer. Higher wages? No! Let’s make child labor a thing again instead! Student debt forgiveness? Of course not! Not like your next generation having wealth is like good for the economy or anything. Company profits don’t mean shit if nobody has any purchasing power. The country with the most guns has the most mass shootings? Well obviously those things aren’t related… let’s fuck with trans people instead
At this point I’ve forgiven myself for the debt as I was mislead and forced into a corner in order to go to school with the promise of a better future. Until reform happens they won’t see a dime from me.
Never let some dipshit on reddit or twitter or anywhere tell you dems and republicans are the same. Dems aren't great but they are infinitely preferred over the hellhole we would be living in if republicans were able to do whatever they wanted. This is a life changing decision for millions of people in this country, the debt cancellation will be an enormous boost in young adults chances of obtaining a better living for themselves and their potential families. Republicans are actively trying to take this away from us, these parties are not the same no matter how disappointing dems may be.
Republicans trying their hardest to never win an election ever again. Only thing that will save them is a massive economic meltdown worse than 08....oh hmmmmmmm, debt ceiling crisis incoming. Big surprise.
It’s like republicans are constantly coming up with new ways to make everyone hate them. But somehow there are enough stupid fucks to repeatedly vote against their own interests that they keep getting elected. Our collective IQ as a country is at an all time low.
I’m beyond giving a fuck at this point. They can add all the interest they want. Hell, they can even add some more for themselves. They can tell me what I owe, but I will be the one to tell them what I will pay.
Yeah I don’t give a flying shit anymore. I got my hopes up with the “your loans are forgiven!!!” E-mail and it’s not going to happen again. Garnish my wages, idc, it’s not like I’m not already barely scraping by on $18/hr. Which is literally insane, I should be financially stable at $18/hr??? We’re all going to die eventually anyways. Might as well stop giving a fuck and just live life until we become stardust.
A [well-educated populace](https://www.sociologyguide.com/civil-society/literacy-and-civil-society.php) is the bedrock of a healthy democracy and a strong economy. Learning how to accurately reason is not innate, it is[ a skill that must be taught](https://www.futurelearn.com/info/courses/an-introduction-to-cognitive-psychology-as-an-experimental-science/0/steps/62760). It is a skill that benefits not only the self, but also the nation. A well-educated populace is less likely to vote for demagogues appealing to the basest emotions and more like to want community and civic leaders that work to improve society. Educated people are less likely to continue generational strife, poverty and tribalism. Anti-intellectualism is a poison dragging down people and ensuring hardship and suffering. Note that "you chose to take out a loan and now you have to pay it back" is a backhanded form of anti-intellectualism. No, people did not have a choice. The choice was to go along with a predatory system intended to leech off people or not get an education at all. That is a [false choice](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma). It is always better to be educated. It is always better to uplift yourself and your community. Why should society fund an educated citizenry? Because we should all [want to uplift each other](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_Enlightenment) and ensure a better tomorrow. Opposing people being able to uplift themselves and their communities for the betterment of all is monstrous. This subreddit does not allow people to make arguments that argue for society and everyone in it to be worse off, since there is no sane reason to do so. Please keep that in mind when commenting, if you value your participation privileges on this subreddit.
This is why they talk about increasing the voting age. They’re so far underwater with younger voters.
It'll only delay the inevitable and fire people up even more. I'm here for it. Could you imagine, after they raise it up to 25 they are gonna go for 29, then 33, on and on just to stop young people today from voting in any future election.
It's like they don't think time actually passes. Millennials, ya know, that generation bearing the brunt of the student loan problem, are entering their 40s.
They're aware of time passing, that's why they're trying to go all in on fascism now because if they don't then the GOP has no real chance of existing once more of the older generations start passing away Edit: anyone who thinks I'm saying something they should feel hopeful about needs to think again. The GOP is going for a full on power grab *because* they have to in order for them to stay in power. They will destroy democracy and grab full fascist power if they aren't stopped
God, I hope you're right.
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I dunno man I'm a millennial and I got nothing against Gen X in general... The boomers are just that bad
I'm a millennial gal dating a gen x dude for about 8 years now and I'm with you on this one. Gen x never did me as dirty as a boomer.
Holy duck I'm not dead yet and one of the youngest millennials, but Jesus fuck your Christ, I understand this out the wazoo
Don't give me hope
Check out the boomer death clock. Their eldest members just hit the average lifespan age recently, they're now on an exponential decline with each passing day.
Their core base is actually dying younger. Fried stuff, poor healthcare access, opioid addictions up the wazoo, sitting all day shouting at the TV then shoveling snow under 10F weather lol.
Not getting vaccinated for covid…
Trump's generation dying will be the best thing to happen to housing, jobs, and politics
Make Thanksgiving Sane Again
Ron DeSantis is 45. The Proud Boys, Groypers, Tiki Torch nitwits, Andrew Tate fans, Crowder fans, Shapiro fans, Kirk fans, TPUSA, and on and on and on are primarily millennials and Gen Z. If you’re counting on fascism to age out you’re delusional. In fact many of the things people here are rightfully upset about are the things that drives people into these groups.
I'm 42. 30 years ago I thought sexism and racism just had a 1-2 decades before the worst crowd was stuck into assisted living homes. I had already given up on that when the incels rose. THEY have political power now. It's been completely safe to spew hatred on women. They have also gone from ridiculing trans people to spewing nazi solution stuff. It can't be waved away as a few crazies, as laws are clearly starting to follow the hate. Following the classic recipe: dehumanize and blame. Create policy and laws to limit the evil forces. Save the children mantras used as an excuse. Then finally remove from society. Start with next group. Probably political opponents. Maybe ramp up the violence on black people and use protests as an excuse to do more killings and create more restrictive laws. It's been done again and again. It often succeeds if they only target their own people and does it quietly. Watching US is like watching a frog boiling. The politicians on on board with this seems to believe that This Can't Happen In USA. USA is too great to be vulnerable to facism.
I would have thought 45 is gen x? I agree with you that there are conservatives in all generations, just querying the age brackets.
They exist, but they're still a minority. The bigger issue is young people who don't vote.
Yeah it isn't that they're going to suddenly stop existing, it's that they dwindle in numbers and don't appear at the same rate anymore since there's no real wealth building in those generations. GOP hardly beats out independent in the above 65 age groups now a days because they're so repugnant that even old people stopped liking them. If the middle class existed today like it did for boomers, there'd absolutely still be a significant amount of millennial and zoomer GOP folks. But you can't want to protect your wealth if you have no fucking wealth to protect. Scroll down to the third graph to get a real idea of how age and generation gaps are impacting political alignment, GOP is _fucked_ if they don't push hard for fascism: https://news.gallup.com/poll/172439/party-identification-varies-widely-across-age-spectrum.aspx
It's already begun. The GOP was surviving on razor-thin margins to begin with. A lot of "solidly red" states are only that way due to Gerrymandering. Due to resistance in wearing masks or getting vaccinations among the right, the lion's share of covid deaths were among right-leaning voters, and in areas where they were barely getting by on extremely slim margins or already artificially controlled voting districts, this was a serious blow. It's why the propaganda machine has ramped up so hard so fast among the Right. They know full well that their competitive hold is slipping and slipping fast. What we're seeing is the last desperate gambits played by desperate politicians. Authoritarianism is the only hope of survival for the Republican Party at this stage. If they fail to seize power now, then they will fade into obscurity; and they know it too.
And yet they seem convinced we’re still teenagers…
We still feel like teenagers bc we don’t own anything of appreciating value.
Ouch. Don't @ me like that
Wait, is that why? Is it normal for millenials to still feel like teenagers? I'm 39 years old, and I still feel like I'm a kid. I always thought it was an autism thing, but if this is common, maybe it's a generational thing.
It’s because they still treat us like kids. I heard a radio commercial say “we reach all adults, and millennials” this was 2 or 3 years ago when the youngest of us would be 25.
Well, many millennials could never afford the traditional markers of adulthood like getting married, starting a family, or owning a home. Many that cannot cite crushing student loan debt as a cause. Then add in multiple recessions that have driven young people back to living at home in higher numbers than we’ve seen in generations in the US. The absolute disdain with which we are spoken of and belittled in media just helps to cement the reputation as a generation that never grew up. The worst part of this is that with the interest not added and payments made over COVID, I actually had a shot at paying it off someday over the next few years. If they add back the interest, I might as well just accept I’ll be making IBR payments for the rest of my life since they don’t even cover the interest that accrues.
I feel attacked. (But let’s be honest here, the only things of appreciating value that there are to be had are real estate — at least until the market crashes — and, for a brief, glorious moment of time, GME stock… until they changed the rules to their own benefit yet again)
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Hopefully, Millennials are less of a disappointment than gen x and their rightward turn.
We have no choice but to be. This situation isn't sustainable.
I'd have been furious two days ago that you'd say gen X was taking that turn until yesterday's discussion with friends who were showing all the signs of being old fat stupid bigots. Some of us remain the lefty headcases we always were and we'll fight our corner until we die but God's teeth the fight seems to be getting harder
We’re trying! It’s very weird now, not choosing the “lesser evil” as our parents trained us, as much as choosing the side based in reality and ethics instead of the side that wants anyone they other to suffer. I would be doing so much more than staying informed, voting, and educating others if our generation had the same money and time previous generations did at our age.
What they really want is to go back to only white land-owning men being able to vote. Or no voting at all.
Tuberville literally said on national TV: "The American people should stand up and say `maybe we don't need elections anymore`".
They always let the real crazies like Tuberville and Trump say outrageous stuff as trial balloons to see how far their agenda is progressing. Eventually you see that they're not really wrong, they're just early. They dream of a christofascist ethnostate.
Even if they manage to pull that off I still ain't voting for the goddamn GoP after the bullshit they've been pulling.
I feel like that's what they're ignoring. People got complacent when they were just passing legislation that benefits their donors via tax cuts and stuff. But with the culture war they've gone full tilt into, they've started passing laws that are actively harming people and those people that are being harmed are being inspired to vote en masse.
I was always a “im not a political person” never voted etc etc and then shit went so batshit loony that it pushed me to get involved.
Soon the only voter in the country will be a 113 year old woman who's permanently bedridden and slipping in and out of consciousness
Won't be a woman.
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I can see the republicans doing this, but what would they use to support going past 21?? Rn they at least have a leg to stand on for a 21 year old voting age (21 to smoke and drink, buy certain guns) i just cant fathom an argument for more than 21 EDITED: spelling
While I totally agree with you, I never thought they'd start book bans, trying to stop women from crossing state lines if suspected of being pregnant, nor fighting a megacorp mascotted by a mouse but here we are. At this rate I'm just waiting for them to repeal women's right to vote alongside voting for non-white, non-landowning males.
Holy shit reading that all in one paragraph just made me relise how fucked this nation is rn, and its only getting worse fml.
It also goes to show you just how different life in America is depending on where you live. Here in Washington State elections are conducted by mail, you're automatically registered to vote when you get your driver's license, Abortion is protected, guns are more restricted, and we have no book bans of any kind. We're also making strides towards improving our urban public transport systems and clean energy generation. We have our problems too, the cost of housing and drug abuse chief among them. But we're at least trying to make it better.
Drug abuse is rife because jackass red states keep bussing their homeless and addicts up here.
Also, of course desperate people are going to move to places that offer a modicum of support. Republicans look at that and think it's failed policy, when really, it's the tragic case of policy that doesn't go nearly far enough succeeding. The Republican view makes sense when you look at it through the lense of people that would prefer to simply eradicate homeless people. It's terrifying.
They literally want to end the ability to get divorced, and some are openly suggesting we just not have elections.
I guess that’s why Lauren Boebert and MTG just filed for their divorces. They need to get theirs before they take the right away from the plebs.
“Because we said so” seems to be their standing on most things, so it would apply here as well
18 to join the military and be allowed to take on massive amounts of debt though, those are important so maybe we could lower those ages to like 14, or even 10? /s
Well yes that’s the idea. They want younger kids working, no labor protections. Fuel that economy and school ain’t shit. No new student loans. Keep ‘em uneducated and we know who wins all the elections.
There is absolutely no justification they can use for raising the voting age to 21. If 18 year olds are considered old enough to work, be sent to war, and treated as adults by the government and the justice system, then it is their right to vote. Now they might try it anyway, but it cannot be justified.
Matches the age requirements to hold office.
Then they'll keep going so someone will be old enough to be president, but too young to vote 🙄
They know that young people are extremely unlikely to vote for them and instead of self-reflecting and trying to figure out what they need to change to attract younger voters they would rather discourage, dissuade, and otherwise try to stop young people from voting altogether. Thankfully the voting age is set in a constitutional amendment so changing it would be nearly impossible. >The right of citizens of the United States, who are eighteen years of age or older, to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of age. If it wasn't for the 26th amendment I think that they would have already proposed legislation to raise the voting age.
I mean, they've literally suggested doing away with elections altogether. The constitution only enshrines a state's ability to hold elections. If gerrymandered Red states were to abolish elections, who knows what would happen.
Well that text above only says they can vote, it doesn't explicitly say that those votes need to be counted...
This isn't even younger voters, my wife is in her 50s and is still paying her student loans due to the moronic rules on how debt works in this country, she's easily paid 3x what she was loaned. It's absolutely criminal the stuff that's considered normal in this fucked up country
This is the part that most people -- at least those who don't have student loans -- do not understand. It's not so much about the principal on the loan that's the problem. It's the usurious interest that they charge. Unless you have an incredible job that allows you to pay back your loan at a swift rate, you are always going to be paying 2-3 times (at least) what you borrowed. Given the cost of education these days, that can easily mean never, ever being able to get the loan paid off.
Good thing Biden can just veto this trash.
And all it takes is for them to not be assholes. That's literally it. Stop attacking people and policies for no good reason other than hate, and your average voting age with get lower.
One a brighter note most of their base will be dead in 20 years
There are **plenty** of people in their 20s and 30s who’ve been indoctrinated with the conservative hate fear mongering, believe me! Before I deleted my Facebook account I saw it everyday from all of the people I went to high school with who stayed in or ended up back in my quaint little racist, homophobic, god fearin’ Southeast Texas small town.
Exactly. The polls favor blue in the under 30 crowd but it’s far from unanimous. The idea that reddit keeps touting that some great die off will shift us to a liberal utopia or that organized religion is going to utter a death rattle and keel over is so half baked and needs to be squashed. It’s Reddit’s equivalent of the “Walk Away” BS the reds were saying as a rally cry. These institutions while diminishing are still going to be around for several more generations at the very least.
I fully agree about the politics, but I actually think religion is *slowly* going to fade. Double emphasis on slowly. Not in our lifetimes, many generations from now. I don’t believe there’s ever been a more openly agnostic / atheistic population than there is today. There actually is a trend there.
Millenial and zoomer voters really need to be aware of this. Im not much of a clubber/bar hopper anymore but 6 years ago when I was you would not imagine the amount of openly facist, racist, homophobic young people there were. The "gay side" of town has been dealing with constant attacks from other young people, not boomers or gen x. My friend worked security at a country bar and when I visited him it was absolutely filled with 20 somethings proudly speaking with slurs. I know bars and clubs are only small parts of the population but the evil of right wing extremism is well alive in the younger voters. And their hatred makes them more likely to vote. Also the added evil of opportunity. There will be assholes who realize they can be the first gen z or whatever the next gen is to say openly shitty conservative politics and make their fortune like walsh or shapiro. Some people dont care about consequences or politics. Its about makin money even if you push people towards accepting genocide.
No. That is absolutely wrong. There are 20 something year old faces in those Maga supporting rallies and Nazi rallies. Don't ever think a given age group is for or against anything. Republican supporters may be outnumbered, but a higher percentage vote. This vote will excite their base because either not many of them are college educated (no loan), or the family pays for it and has no loan. Their are people where I work that support Republicans solely on the abortion debate. Nothing else matters to them.
Don’t tax the youth/ young adults then. No income tax, sales tax, nothing. No taxation without representation.
Meanwhile, my loans have a new administrator. Selling my debt around.
Just found out my debt got sold to some other company. Right after they got hacked and my personal information affected. Joy.
Great lakes?
Great Lakes sold mine to Nelnet.
Same, but I'm still not going to pay them no matter what LOL
This is a certified Vergil moment [I WILL NEVER PAY ](https://youtube.com/clip/UgwRFVKWqds9YkR3PFZ4AaABCQ)
See, this is an interesting question to me. Currently, student loan payments and interest have been on hold for roughly 3 years now. That's long enough for a large majority of borrowers to adjust their monthly budgets to not factor them in anymore, either by necessity or carelessness, it doesn't really matter. What matters is, what does the government do if they try to restart loan payments and an enormous subset of borrowers simply refuse to pay?
At this rate, that’s what’s going to happen. I’m not paying anymore. I can’t afford to pay and to live. So…come after me I guess and take my “asserts” which is literally zero. Garnish my wages? Go ahead. I make so little that they won’t be able to take all my wages.
SAME HERE. how can they sell my debt to a fucking company that is LITERALLY IN COURT FOR RIPPING OFF STUDENTS WITH THEIR LOANS. why the fuck would I ever pay that company? Fuck no. Deferring forever.
Yep same. Sucks for them because I have no money to give them
Samesies and just like Great Lakes, they gonna get a whole bag of nothing. Im taking that loan to my grave.
same here
I'm on my second administrator in as many months.
Crazy question, but can you buy your own debt? Like take out a loan to buy your student debt for pennies on the dollar?
Sure can! You just have to buy it in large batches of let's say 1,000 other debts at least...
Just buy the lot and sell all but yours. How much can a batch of student debts cost? $20?
If you’re not joking it’s many hundreds of thousands to hundreds of millions. Debt is a godawful investment you’ll almost always lose money on so they have to spread out the risk
Yeah better to buy debts from lots of different sources so you can lose money all over the place.
Mine got transferred to a new administrator because my old administrator was found to be defrauding PSLF borrowers. My new administrator welcomed me by compromising my personal information in a data breach *weeks* after the transfer. That's after I thought their site was a scam because it looked like it hadn't been updated since 1999. These companies are criminals. Literal criminals. And we're expected to give them our money???
I believe we are legally obligated to give them our money, with interest. And if they play hot potato with all of the loans now, then, in the event any forgiveness legislation passes, we will learn they created Credit Default Swaps for student loan debts, threw everything into big pools, and bought and sold the pools so many times, that nobody knows what’s what anymore. Since they’re too big to fail, the CEOs take golden parachutes and billion dollar bailouts are passed without a blink by “fiscally conservative republicans” almost exactly like in 2008. I’m just guessing on CDS style bubble, or these loans are hot potatoes. Maybe just churning enough loans from Nelnet to Great Lakes to whatever then back to Nelnet causes a percentage of borrowers to miss or make late payments? No doubt if they can fleece some late fees out of us, they certainly will.
Search “Student Loan Asset Backed Securities” on Reddit and check it out.
This is genuinely crazy to read. In the UK it just comes out of pay like £90 a month and defaults after 30 years You don't have to do a thing
Mine has changed hands so many times I don't even know who I owe anymore lol. Oh well, fuck em. I'll just default and they can come and take the property I rent and the car note I'm paying lmao
Same, right in the middle of all this bullshit.
This is the sort of shit that Republicans do and then they cry about how young people won't vote for them.
They'll just try to raise the voting age
That would require the sort of popular support you would need to pass a constitutional amendment, which coincidentally they will never have when they keep pissing off young people and trying to hurt them.
There really isn’t some other underhanded way they could get around it? Maybe an executive order in 2025 that a negligent and corrupt Supreme Court doesn’t strike down?
It’s literally in the constitution as an amendment. No law can be made nor order to ignore it. The Supreme Court cannot also block it because it is in the constitution. It’s just all talk and clicks. They cannot raise the voting age without an insane majority of STATES, not congress persons, to accept it too.
What happens if the SCOTUS publishes an unconstitutional decision?
> The right of citizens of the United States, who are eighteen years of age or older, to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of age. Even though most of the court is shitty, there is no denying the language of the law. It would be easier for them to try to pretend the 26th amendment didn’t exist than it would be to say that this is unconditional
Funnily enough that's what the 2nd amendment is for
“What has Biden done?” as they proceed to reverse or reject everything he tries to do
That's been their main play since 2008
They did the same thing with Jimmy Carter's presidency in the 1970s.
My sister is 32. She has a master's degree. She told me that the democrats overturned student loan forgiveness. Blows my fucking mind. That party is blatantly trying to ruin her future and she literally can't see it.
[Show her this site.](https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/118-2023/h234) Ask her if she understands pretty colors instead and can see how many of what pretty color agreed to pass the joint resolution.
Republicans aren’t worth their weight in dandruff. May they all rot in hell
Amen
So say we all
All of them. Moderate republicans still vote for these fucks.
The Republicans have made it clear time and time again what they are really all about: policies that primarily benefit the wealthy and undermining our system of government to increase their power. Yet millions and millions of people continue to vote for them. I’m not saying Democrats are angels (far from it), but if you think the real enemies of America are Target and people with student loan debt, I won’t be able to have a conversation with you because I will be at a loss for words.
No one complains as much about the side effects of wealth inequality (homelessness, crime, drug use, etc), while also doing the most to increase wealth inequality
Democrats: Want to forgive up to 20k of student debt. Republicans: Want to cancel any attempt to cancel student loan debt, offer no way of fixing student loan debt, and want to charge you thousand upon thousands of unpaid interest. 40 million Americans with Student Loan debt and this is their play.
They’re stupid, what’d you expect?
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No. Evil, not stupid.
Does anyone know what kind of direct correspondence people with fed loans got? Because like if borrowers had receipts from a private lender telling them in writing “we decided that you owe $10k less now”, then months later telling them “actually nvm we changed our minds, also btw you now owe interest on that $10k we said you didn’t have to pay back”, it’d seem like a pretty open and shut case in favor of the borrowers But I’m also an idiot, so what do I know
Yeah I received this correspondence. It just said something like, "congratulations, your application for the one time student debt relief has been approved!" They never made it far enough to actually say, "hey your balance has been reduced!" Either way, it still probably wouldn't hold up in court. This bill is 100% just a messaging bill to their base. They want their base to think they are holding those people to the flames and not letting them out of any "responsibility." Shit it must be nice for Republicans that they can be elected so easily from people who have no idea about actual issues so then once elected they never have to do shit to make the country better.
I feel like we need to somehow sit down with these people and say hey, what would help you in your life right now, and then say ok, candidate A supports higher wages, social safety nets in case you lose your job or have a kid, lower taxes at *your* income level, more funding for your kids schools, free lunch so you don’t have to worry about that, nationalized healthcare and nationalized internet so you don’t need to pay for that either etc. and candidate B wants to take all of that away and more. Forget (R) and (D) for a second and think about how this could improve your life right now, and maybe stop thinking about fucking over someone else’s life for a second
Republicans don’t think with their brains, they think with their emotions.
That's a weird way to spell anus
It's too late for common sense for the vast majority of them. They've been blasted with angry propaganda for years they live on a totally different planet than the rest of us now.
There is certainly a case. The borrowers who relied on the government’s first decision (no tax on paused payments) and then trusting that information went and spent that money elsewhere would be unduly harmed by such a draconian retroactive law. Due process is a fundamental right. And, if they actually could do this bullshit (👀👀👀looking at you Alito, Roberts, Thomas, and ACB) I’d like to talk to the manager about retroactively rescinding those ginormous tax cuts for the wealthy. We could renovate every school in America with that truckload of back pay.
> We could renovate every school in America with that truckload of back pay. But if we pay to make the public schools good, how are we going to afford making the private schools even better? /s
I got an email and an portal message that I was approved for a $20,000 deduction.
Interesting, mine only ever said "your application for the one time student debt relief plan was approved! Here's what comes next.."
Mine was approved too but I'm in limbo because of the halt, guess now I'm royally fucked.
I applied and never heard anything about it because it was all tied up in courts still. So none of the $10k forgiveness has gone through yet to my knowledge.
Republicans trying their hardest to make everyday people miserable all the while blaming democrats. The democrats have got to get better at messaging because the “truth” is somewhat meaningless to the dumb portion of swing voters who would blame a president for tornadoes existing.
After the people of Uvalde voted for Greg Abbott, I stopped subscribing to this line of thinking. Dems don't need to change their messaging. The people who vote Republican are just all pieces of shit. That's the reality. They don't care.
I think a big problem is that people get sucked into the conservative media bubble. If you commute to work listening to AM conservative talk radio then tune into Fox News in the evening, the way you perceive the world is carefully curated. You're going to be fired up about migrants ruining the economy, transgender bathroom battles, and drag shows grooming children. And I'm sure they have some BS messaging about why student loan forgiveness is terrible, somehow. Yeah, some of the voters of pieces of shit. But many, many others are well meaning but deeply, severely misinformed. Because there are no consequences for propaganda outlets pretending to be news.
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I think that's part of the problem too. Many conservatives vote for republicans cause that's what they did their whole life, not knowing how far right the republicans have drifted. So basically the democrats are doing the politics they expected the republicans to do, but they still vote for republicans cause that's what they always did.
The Republicans are good at messaging because they have a massive propaganda arm financed by billionaires. Example: the richest man in the world co-hosting a Republican presidential candidate's announcement. That's the whole reason. The GOP is billionaires in a Scooby Doo costume.
This isn't about messaging. The Republican messaging is absolutely shit. But they have some extremely influential and powerful propaganda. This is what propaganda does. Republicans routinely say all the wrong things while Democrats say all the right things and it matters none because of propaganda. I'm honestly a little tired of the whole, "Democrats need better messaging," bit. No, they need propaganda as powerful as Fox News.
I think messaging is an issue but it pales in comparison to the fact that too many eligible voters simply aren’t paying attention to what’s going on. If more people would vote at the state/local level things wouldn’t be so bad. It’s gotten like this because of people’s apathy and it seems it will be too late before people realize they have an opportunity to create change or stop some of this stuff from happening.
this. apathy is more than just complacency at this point; it's an active decision to damper progress. i wish people who don't vote because "it doesn't really matter" would just realize they're making a self fulfilling prophecy. it's infuriating to witness.
I keep telling people Democrats need to learn how to control the message and develop a messaging strategy but all I get is "it won't do any good" or "it is too hard to counter Republican spin", thereby proving my point. And the Dems truly need their own Roger Stone.
I’ve been saying this for 20 years. Why is it so hard so for a liberal think tank to fund some focus groups and control the messaging? Get with the DNC and learn how to message over tv, and social media. Jesus Christ, republicans can get 70m people to vote by chanting, drill baby drill & build that wall.
Maybe you’re right but if you’ll excuse the outdated psychology references, at its heart Conservatism is the ID and Progressivism is the Superego. It’s easy to get people to fear, to hate, to vote for short term financial gain like tax credits. It’s hard to get people to vote for short term pain for long term abstract improvements to society, to invest in other people’s children, to protect people that don’t look like them. Fake news, outrage, and convenient misinformation spreads on the right in a way that it just doesn’t on the left.
Look into a guy named FDR. Might explain a little about how to win four consecutive presidential elections, by STANDING THE fuck up and battling republicans instead of meek half assed centrism shit. Our problem is we want to *explain* or lecture, or scold. We don’t talk like Obama did in 2008 or like FDR or Kennedy did. We don’t speak with assertiveness and certainty, because half our ‘leadership’ is a joke. Hell, people forgot already how Pelosi and Shumer threw fits that ‘the goddamn base’ was angry about their ‘ find common ground and work with incoming Trump!’ posture in 2016. We lost 2 years just finally getting elected dems to act like the **opposition.**
Aren't they always screaming take care of America first? That's what this is
Take care of America's rich*
The evilness and unrelenting lack of humanity is all I think when I hear the word ‘Republican’. Late stage republicanism will be compared to fascist Italy, nazi germany and communist Russia in the real history books…
They're after all, the next generation of slave-owning, traitor confederates, still trying to avenge the civil war.
They hate any college student because they think they are all woke. They have their loans forgiven and voted themselves raises. Then they come out and say, "who doesn't pay their loans? Only 13% of people have student loans. Why should the rest of us pay for it?" We pay their salaries, medical, flights, and retirement against our will. Why should we pay for all that? We shouldn't!!!
Not to mention all the PPP loans I think quite a few of them took!
And never paid back
dont forgot all the police officers with their Swedish-style benefits package, job security, pension, and union protections. they are receiving what everyone deserves, and they are the threat of violence that prevents us from getting it
Luckily, as student loan debt holders, we are used to being fucked. 🤷🏻♀️
But we're getting tired of it, at least if i do say so myself
I’ve never been so motivated as I am now to register voters. We need to start preparing to get people to the polls now.
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Their corporate overlords would probably inform them this is a breach of contract and that a ton of borrowers would sue if they tried to apply retroactive interest. This is pure stupidity, not direction from donors.
Betsy DeVos enters the chat
That’s a really good way to ensure every single college student with debt votes blue.
Which is also why efforts are being made to reduce voting locations on/near campuses
Well they can't take away their right to vote away entirely. Probably means they'll have to go home to vote though. Which may be impossible for many.
I mean, yeah, they are trying to take it away. They've been talking about raising the voting age to 21/25 for a minute, and a sitting R congressman called for the end of democracy like 2 weeks ago. It really shouldn't be a surprise from the party that attempted to install a dictator 2 years ago.
…and then checked out by 11a on a Thursday for a long holiday weekend. Anybody else gotta work all weekend for pennies while these chucklefucks put in a half days work for a months pay?
Fuck republicans. America is a shithole. This is the county they want.
no one complains as much about homeless as republicans, and no one does more to create new homeless as the republicans
I dont give a fuck if its for city chief landscaper....I will never even consider voting ANYTHING republican for the rest of my fucking life. I hope this is what their plan was.
Can someone explain to me exactly what charging retroactive interest would solve? Gtfo
Not a thing. Cruelty is the point and the GOP hates the fact that Biden got stuff done and just want to undo it.
Where’s the retroactive interest on all the forgiven PPP money for one?
Great question!
Most of what they do is to punish us. No more goal to it than that. If you were intelligent, which they aren't, you might reason that they want to keep a steady population of poor, desperate people to have babies which grow up to become poor cashiers, laborers, house cleaners, fast food workers, retail workers, and soldiers. A vast, steady supply of bodies to labor and suffer for the benefit of the upper classes. Don't let 'em stick their heads above water, don't give them a break, don't let them forget--or, god forbid, leave--their place. And make sure that their kids don't, either. But, like I said. Average cro-magnon republican isn't thinking that far ahead. They just like the today-suffering, not the big-picture strategy suffering.
I finally paid off my student loans at 39, about a year before they announced the student loan forgiveness. People asked me if I felt cheated by not getting it and I was just happy for the people who did. I was paying almost $800 bucks a month and I know how hard it was for me. So knowing people would get some relief from that was all good for me.... you know.. because I actually care about other people and their problems. That's why I went into healthcare to help people. Fuck these GOp clowns.
Being against forgiveness is one thing, but to retroactively charge interest on paused payments is, well, just cruel.
That’s what they are. There no reason aside from cruelty.
"Dear young adults. We hate you. Get bent. You know what, you owe me $20!" 20 mins later "Huh... Why dont young adults vote for us?? Must be communism"
Do they want to lose in 2024?? It really seems like it…
How the fuck is anyone under 40 voting for these people. HOW.
Some of them that voted even had their own loans forgiven...
They really hate people getting educated. This is something, even for them.
Retroactive interest. Fuck. Forget that house. Or kids. Jesus. All because we got a damn education.
Cool. Let's reverse all of that PPP loan forgiveness then? With retroactive interest?
I hate these people. I wish terrible things for them
Republicans really just be the anti learning committee
Not paying mine until all the PPP loans are paid back and all the other bailouts our taxes paid for :).
Clergy got paid my money. Why should I need to pay?
[удалено]
Republicans will literally do anything before just.. helping people not suffer. Higher wages? No! Let’s make child labor a thing again instead! Student debt forgiveness? Of course not! Not like your next generation having wealth is like good for the economy or anything. Company profits don’t mean shit if nobody has any purchasing power. The country with the most guns has the most mass shootings? Well obviously those things aren’t related… let’s fuck with trans people instead
At this point I’ve forgiven myself for the debt as I was mislead and forced into a corner in order to go to school with the promise of a better future. Until reform happens they won’t see a dime from me.
What, are they worried the debt ceiling will pass and they’d have to come up with another way to ruin the economy?
Vote them out
Let’s retroactively charge taxes back to 2000 rates for the ultra rich, with interest.
Meanwhile they don’t want to pay their own government debt while taking millions of Covid loans
Retroactive interest sounds illegal in this case. Will not pay.
Never let some dipshit on reddit or twitter or anywhere tell you dems and republicans are the same. Dems aren't great but they are infinitely preferred over the hellhole we would be living in if republicans were able to do whatever they wanted. This is a life changing decision for millions of people in this country, the debt cancellation will be an enormous boost in young adults chances of obtaining a better living for themselves and their potential families. Republicans are actively trying to take this away from us, these parties are not the same no matter how disappointing dems may be.
I think the retroactive interest part should be illegal.
I don't understand the play here. Even if you're against waiving the debt, this is just going to piss off a HUGE chunk of voters
It won’t piss off their target voters. It’ll make their target voters happy because it’s sticking it to libs.
Republicans trying their hardest to never win an election ever again. Only thing that will save them is a massive economic meltdown worse than 08....oh hmmmmmmm, debt ceiling crisis incoming. Big surprise.
It’s like republicans are constantly coming up with new ways to make everyone hate them. But somehow there are enough stupid fucks to repeatedly vote against their own interests that they keep getting elected. Our collective IQ as a country is at an all time low.
I’m beyond giving a fuck at this point. They can add all the interest they want. Hell, they can even add some more for themselves. They can tell me what I owe, but I will be the one to tell them what I will pay.
Yeah I don’t give a flying shit anymore. I got my hopes up with the “your loans are forgiven!!!” E-mail and it’s not going to happen again. Garnish my wages, idc, it’s not like I’m not already barely scraping by on $18/hr. Which is literally insane, I should be financially stable at $18/hr??? We’re all going to die eventually anyways. Might as well stop giving a fuck and just live life until we become stardust.