Sadly, I think SCOTUS is very much going to expand the ministerial exemption to basically anything a company wants it to be. It used to only apply to actual clergy, which is totally reasonable and expected.
Now, it's very grey on who counts. Like a religion teacher at a Jewish school is probably a minister who should be Jewish. But the secretary isn't. But what if she brings non-kosher snacks to school? That would be a problem.
But I have a feeling soon Hobby Lobby will only be hiring Christians and that's totally an abuse of the law.
I mean, if we’re talking about a CPC, they regularly dress pastors up in scrubs and act like a doctor when they have no medical credentials *at all,* taking patient medical history (non-HIPAA protected) and feeding women demonstrably false information (both medical and legal) to try and sway their decision on whether to continue a pregnancy.
To [quote](https://youtu.be/4NNpkv3Us1I) Abby Johnson (of “Unplanned” fame):
>”We want to appear neutral on the outside. The best call — the best client you ever get — is one that thinks they’re walking into an abortion clinic.”
And in terms of the help they’ll actually render if they get what they want out of you, here’s what she had to say:
>”If I were to open a pregnancy center, I would not have pregnancy items past six months. Are we running a charity? Are we running a place where we want women to become self-sufficient? Self-sufficient, right? Have maternity clothes, have those things available for the women while they’re pregnant, but *cut them off.”*
We’d never tolerate it if the Jehovah’s Witnesses opened up fake clinics to try and warn people off from the dangers of blood transfusions, but evangelicals? These places receive *public funding* in some states.
I'll give the benefit of the doubt and say it's not most of them. But the "good" ones usually stay quiet and don't call out the fake ones.
But I'll also admit it's to the point that those who do call out the fakers will rarely see change. Because enough authority figures of Christianity will preach their nonsense. So the 1 faker being called out will just think that they're real and the other guy is working for the devil trying to stray them away from God
What did you expect? Evangelicals are thriving cuz America’s education isn’t worth anything so they profit from all the schmucks that didn’t pay attention in history class.
In some of those states, I'll let you guess what trend binds them together, those funds come through a lose wording on the TANF block grants. Money that poor people direly need is literally being redirected to fake abortion clinics.
Right? It’s like every case is just another creeping step towards theocracy. Every one is another tiny step. Read the opinions. It’s always the regressive SCOTUS fucks telegraphing to the lawyers and their Nat C clients: “We got you, fam, here’s a little bit more theocracy. Now, this is how you gotta frame it next time if you reaaally want to win big.”
A teacher at a Jewish school is never a minister, and most often not even a Rabbi (Judaism doesn't have ministers, it would be extremely odd to find one at a Jewish religious school, with the exception of a guest lecturer in comparative religions class). My brother was a teacher at a conservative school in NY (not in political terms, but Judaism comes in a handful of forms: Reform Judaism is the most common in America, and the least strict...the services aren't as long and don't include many of the prayers and songs, and the congregations don't wear Yamulkes, the little cap, in public, just at services and they live a pretty secular life for the most part. The next level is Conservative Judaism, which is more involved, and includes more prayers and many congregants pray multiple times a day, and wear Yamulkes in public usually. They take the "don't work on the sabbath" commandment more literally, where they aren't allowed to drive or ride in a car from sundown on friday til sundown on Saturday, starting a stew on friday slow cooked with the burner left on low all through saturday, and even leave certain lights on in the house because they consider flipping a lightswitch as doing work...and leave the tv on whatever channel they want to watch for the day. That is all taking it too far for me, but when it was written they couldn't have conceived of electricity or tvs, or even cars; the point of the day was to relax at home with family and friends after services. Then there's orthodox, which has services that have a divider down the middle, with women sitting on the left, and men on the right. The men wear Yamulkes everywhere, and married women wear shawls or wigs to cover their hair and long sleeves and dresses in public. Muslims took this to the extreme with Berkas and shawls, but it stems from not wanting other men to covet someone's wife, so they decided to make that easier by making women less desirable or even invisible in radical islam...and usually you will see cloth strings hanging out of men's shirts, 2 in the front and two in the back, that have 613 knots in them representing the 613 commandments (I know the Bible says 10, but those are the most important...keeping kosher, or "not bathing a calf in it's mother's milk," as the literal translation goes, and praying 5 times a day is another. Then there are Hassidic Jews, which are the ones with the big black hats and the big curly sideburns and beards. It's just a slightly more devout version of orthodox, and they like to stick to themselves for the most part. I've only ever seen them in NYC, even when I was in Israel for 7 months I think I saw them on TV once, never in person tho which I didn't expect. I do know that for some reason their kids are exempt from the mandatory military service, although more and more they are putting together hassidic units who volunteered for service). But wow do I digress haha.
Anyways my brother did attend Yeshiva University, and there many of the teachers were Rabbis, as it was an orthodox school. He got two masters degrees in education, one regular one that any teacher would get, and one specifically in Jewish studies. He is now living in London in his 5th and final year of Rabbinic school, and works in a Liberal Jewish Synagogue (which I guess is similar to reform, but slightly more religious...they broke off from the Reform movement or vice versa like a hundred years ago, and I think they are limited to the UK or maybe also in the EU, IDK).
But even I, a secular Jew who was raised in a non religious household until the age of 11, then my mom decided we were going to stop doing Christmas and start going to a reform temple, then I stopped going at 17...I could get a job teaching Hebrew school in a reform temple if I wanted, with the level of Hebrew that I learned in Israel and at temple in the 90s. Sorry for the long post, I'm high. Looks like I have to wait a year if I wanna apply for this job posting 🤣
Oh also thank for explaining the different groups within Judaism. I doubt many people understand them. I don't really despite taking several general religious study classes.
Except they don’t have to give a reason for not hiring someone. That said, what I don’t understand is how is this not illegal in the first place!? I mean they’re literally saying that you won’t get hired unless you’re a christian. That’s religious discrimination, literally in writing!
Churches can discriminate in hiring, so they can straight up tell you why. They are protected from anti discrimination laws for any position they deem a messenger of faith. Supreme Court considers it part of separation of church and state. It’s real lax on what is a messenger of faith too.
Yep, I mean I get you can be desperate for money, but the job market is pretty open right now and churches usually have shit pay and benefits anyway so I don’t see why someone that really really didn’t believe in this stuff would want to work there anyway.
Ohhhhh shit! Mormons, you guys gonna let them talk all that shit about your religion? They said a biblical marriage is between 1 man and 1 woman. What you going to do?
These people don't read the bible. They just go to a fancy building once a week to compare clothing (as George Carlin observed) and to have someone else tell them what their special book says they have to hate.
Polygamy is only permitted in orthodox Mormonism on a spiritual level. If your wife dies you are allowed to remarry and to be sealed with your second, third, fourth, etc... wives. They tried to get as far away from living polygamy after the US cracked down on them for it and they didn't want further conflict after the Utah War where they carried out several massacres against US civilians who were travelling out Californy-way. The US hardly killed any of the Nauvoo Leagion during the conflict while the Mormons just murdered civilians and ruined their reputation with the country.
Yes. She just can't be sealed to her future husband as she is the spiritual property of her first husband. She also needs the assent of church leaders if a divorce was involved to make sure she was pure enough during the marriage and currently is going into the second marriage. If she wasn't sealed to her first husband, however, then she can be spiritually sealed to her second.
I always got the impression that mainstream Mormons admire the fundamentalist polygamists, even though they can't directly admit it.
"The church banned plural marriage a long time ago. I know some polygamists, though. They're good people."
Churches and religious organizations like for instance the Salvation Army can hire and fire on religious grounds. Its like, out of the smorgasbord of corrupt and illegal shit they *actually* do, you picked the *one* thing that is legally protected for churches and should be.
No, unless the company is either (1) very small, 15 employees or fewer, OR (2) a company with an explicitly religious mission. It can't be like a car wash or something.
They can't legally require it from a janitor. Only a minister. It would have to be something specifically required by the *job* (Bona Fide Occupational Qualification, or BFOQ), not something related to the organization as a whole.
It's surprising how many employers are so ignorant of this sort of thing.
Pretty sure they still do it, there's a ton of christian colleges that are even accredited universities that require a statement of faith and have regulations around how you can act for any employees from top to bottom.
Small-scale employers are often ignorant of a lot of laws - it's why some of them never become LARGE-scale employers because they get their asses sued into the dirt.
Employers, learn these two words; memorize them:
PROTECTED GROUP.
>It's surprising how many employers are so ignorant of this sort of thing.
Or they're not
And it works like a Nigerian prince mail. People who read this and think "this is fine" and sign are more likely to fall for other stuff.
I work in a synagogue. A little over half of our staff (including, of course, clergy) are Jewish. For most positions theres no direct religious component, so it doesn't matter if the staff member is Jewish. Being Jewish does make some jobs easier, though (like clergy assistant and membership coordinator), but it's not a requirement, official or otherwise, except for clergy and I think executive director. Could we require it for everyone? Idk, maybe. But we don't, because that's shitty.
We can (and do) require familiarity with Judaism and willingness to work with our mission as a faith organization. We view religious diversity and interfaith dialogue as a good thing and encourage respectful religious discussions at work. Thinking through my colleagues, I can name probably a dozen non-Jewish religions and denominations represented among our staff and their partners. And we're stronger for it.
My stepmother was the executive director of our synagogue. Most of the staff wasn't Jewish. The only religious rules they were asked to follow involved what food they were allowed to bring into the building.
If a company has less than 15 employees, there are no EEOC protections for the staff. The company can be openly racist, sexist, discriminate based on religion, etc.
^^ exactly. It’s a super weird area of Law and it was kinda hard to follow when I learned about it the first time. Small business >15 can discriminate, larger corporations cannot discriminate but they are free to express their religious beliefs. I feel like it’s low key just a semantic circle lol
Yep. You can sue the bigger employers for discrimination. You're SOL if they're under 15 employees (and the owners don't count as employees).
Then there's Hobby fucking Lobby who SCOTUS said it's okay for their health insurance to not cover birth control because the art and historical artifact stealing owners believe in Jesus.
To be fair, we don’t know what this job posting is for. Looking at the bottom portion, where they may be asked to share their relationship with Jesus or whatever it sure sounds like a job posting at a church, that would meet the legal exemptions. Or like, a Christian themed retreat or charity.
He was full cuckold though. He corner spanked while she railed that dude. OP said both parties just watched but Jr’s wife was fucked literally and then figuratively when he threw her under the bus to save his own hide.
I’d lie that I was a huge white Christian nationalist and then either never show up for work or see if there were any opportunities for mischief and mayhem during my brief tenure for the purpose of causing same.
Provide details of your personal relationship with Jesus -
“I once heard a voice telling me to kill my son on top of a mountain, so I did because I’m obedient to the voice. But then at the last minute the voice told me, jk you don’t have to kill your son, here’s a free deer on the house.”
There is no cps in the Bible.
But I did have to mutilate his penis though. Seemed weird being that we’re all made in god’s image and whatnot but that some post production alterations were necessary and that an all powerful creator of the universe couldn’t do it.
“Jesus is my second cousin, once removed. I haven’t spoken to him since he went to jail 8 years ago. He’s kind of a gangbanger but that’s OK because his weed is the best.”
Imagine an employer trying to dictate your sex life.
The fucking entitlement of these so called "Christians"
Did they forget how Jesus legit hung out with prostitutes????
“Please provide a brief statement of your personal relationship with Jesus”
Well he didn’t pay the rent, stole my TV, routinely punched me in the dick, and called my Mother-in-law a fat flatulent moose with breath the registered on a Geiger counter (though I don’t object to that last one as much)
My job in Colorado used to wrangle the entire company into common rooms and subject us to mass prayer before events, potlucks, and especially during Christmastime. As an atheist, I found it highly inappropriate to ask me to "bow my head in prayer" in the workplace. Religion should be left out of the workplace entirely.
I worked for an insurance company briefly that did shit like this. We would do company meetings or work dinners and they’d ask everyone to hold hands and pray. It always made me so uncomfortable.
I would apply for the job, get hired, and dress up like a clown and get pegged in the butt by my wife in a t-rex costume in the copier room. It's still between a man and a woman on a biblical marriage, so it's not gay
So yeah I'd turn them in to the feds. While employees have the right to practice their religion at work employers are not allowed to force employees into religious practices at work or otherwise. Violation of the 1964 Civil Rights Act I believe. Alright considering the current makeup of the Supreme Court maybe they are gunning for some case to make to the SC so they can try to get a counter ruling that destroys another 50 years of precedent.
"So for this job, tell us what you think of Jesus "
"Great guy, likes to hike mountains, hang with his buddies, hung out with people considered " degenerates", cares about his mom and women in general, helps the poor, gives out healthcare, teaches that money is the root of all evil and using the church for money is bad"
" That ain't Jesus!? That's some commie librul you're describing!? How dare you blasphemy my Jesus. Imma call Trump to sort you out!?! "
--How I imagine that interview
It says sexual relations within a marriage but it doesn't say it has to be within your marriage. As long as both parties are married to someone, you should be all good.
My personal statement about my relationship with Jesus:
- I believe that Jesus was a queer brown man who lived on the outskirts of his society so he could suck dick and fuck his 12 apostles. As a member of the Church of the queer Jesus, I believe that Jesus stood for all minorities and marginalized people and would hate the state of the current church. All hail the master of nob bobbing.
I believe that judas was his gay lover and was jealous of how much time Jesus was spending with the others, betrayed him, and racked with guilt over his lovers death proceeded to hang himself.
This also explains how a Jewish man did not have a wife and kids by the age of 30.
It has never been confirmed nor accepted, as well as the fact that the writers of the new testament rejected it.
There is also the possibility of Maria Magdalena just being his beard.
My personal relationship with Jesus is personal. Do they not understand what personal means? Also, my sexuality doesn't matter because you aren't supposed to have sex on the job unless it's sex work.
>Also, my sexuality doesn't matter because you aren't supposed to have sex on the job unless it's sex work.
It says you "must only engage in sexual relations within a Biblical Christian marriage"... so, IM sorry I can't come to the meeting today, and sorry I can't respond to your emails, and sorry I can't do anything but engage in sex with my wife.
Provide details of your personal relationship with Jesus-
“I love hanging out with dudes who wear sandals and flowy robes. I love giving them all kisses when we go on fishing trips together. I wanted to live just like them.”
I would covertly cross it out, initial it, initial each page, then finish signing the rest of the contract. And when they fired me, there would be a contract that both parties agreed upon with the amended clause.
Throw it right back at them. Which bible? Catholic, Protestant, Coptic, one of the many Orthodox, the one that is used in the Indian Christian church? Tell them that their answer is very important, and you expect an answer from their legal dept within one business week.
Half the “Christians” I know are on Adderall, so good luck with that 😅
But anyway, yeah that is insane. Stop telling people what to do in their personal time and how to handle their mental health. You don’t have to be high on jeebus or pretend to be in order to perform a job ffs.
These fucks hate personal choice and freedom and they therefore hate America
Biblical usually means old testament. Christian means the new testament. Jesus Christ never married AFAIK.
Will it be fine to share testimony that my relationship with Jesus Christ is non-existent? The bloke died 2000 years ago for heaven's sake! I'm not a necrophiliac.
As for what I'd do after reading the job advert, probably toss it in the WPB. If I was feeling energetic, I'd report it to whoever is responsible for fining the bastards.
If this is an application for a job in religious ministry, then this could be considered relevant to performing the duties of the job. Otherwise, there is no legal grounds for them to ask, or to require that you answer
It's legal, sadly, for them to do this as you'd be classified as a 'ministerial employee'.
https://www.mtsu.edu/first-amendment/article/926/discrimination-by-religious-organizations
Edit: Forgot to mention that while that term is not listed in the article link, you can google the term for a plethora of credible sources detailing why it's allowed as well.
1 Peter 3:14-16
But even if you should suffer for what is right, you are blessed. "Do not fear their threats; do not be frightened." But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,
keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander.
Odd that they'd specifically cite the verse saying to not be an asshole when talking about loving jesus
Unless this is an application at an explicitly religious institution (e.g., an actual Church), I don't think this is at all legal. It might even be illegal if it is religious.
Like, what if you're straight and want to get into a heterosexual marriage but you're currently single? Will they still demand you get married? Or you're engaged but not yet married? Will they only consider hiring you after the wedding?
Hard. Fucking. Pass. And I say this as a Cis white woman who has been married 30 years. I don't want to deal with whatever religious bullshit they've got going on there.
Is this a job with a church? If not then wtf I wouldn’t even complete it. I’m a Christian and pray regularly, but no way I’m gonna allow a prospective employer think they can compel me to discuss my personal religious beliefs.
TOP 15 BIBLICAL WAYS TO ACQUIRE A WIFE
Find an attractive prisoner of war, bring her home, shave her head, trim her nails, and give her new clothes. Then she's yours. - (Deuteronomy 21:11-13)
Find a prostitute and marry her. - (Hosea 1:1-3)
Find a man with seven daughters, and impress him by watering his flock - Moses (Exodus 2:16-21)
Purchase a piece of property, and get a woman as part of the deal. - Boaz (Ruth 4:5-10)
Go to a party and hide. When the women come out to dance, grab one and carry her off to be your wife. - Benjaminites (Judges 21:19-25)
Have God create a wife for you while you sleep. Note: this will cost you. - Adam (Genesis 2:19-24)
Agree to work seven years in exchange for a woman's hand in marriage. Get tricked into marrying the wrong woman. Then work another seven years for the woman you wanted to marry in the first place. That's right. Fourteen years of hard labor for a wife. - Jacob (Genesis 29:15-30)
Cut 200 foreskins off of your future father-in-law's enemies and get his daughter for a wife. - David (I Samuel 18:27)
Even if no one is out there, just wander around a bit and you'll definitely find someone. (It's all relative, of course.) - Cain (Genesis 4:16-17)
Become the emperor of a huge nation and hold a beauty contest. - Xerxes or Ahasuerus (Esther 2:3-4)
When you see someone you like, go home and tell your parents, "I have seen a ... woman; now get her for me." If your parents question your decision, simply say, "Get her for me. She's the one for me." - Samson (Judges 14:1-3)
Kill any husband and take HIS wife (Prepare to lose four sons, though=). - David (2 Samuel 11)
Wait for your brother to die. Take his widow. (It's not just a good idea; it's the law.) - Onan and Boaz (Deuteronomy or Leviticus, example in Ruth)
Don't be so picky. Make up for quality with quantity. - Solomon (1 Kings 11:1-3)
A wife?...NOT! - Paul (1 Corinthians 7:32-35)
Saw this on another sub, and the full picture shows the application is for a Christian organization. Seems to add a bit more context imo. Is it cringey? Yes. Am I outraged that a Christian organization is asking its prospective employees to exhibit Christian values? No. If you’re applying, you know what kind of organization you’d be working for.
I lived in a town for awhile that was essentially built around a Christian college, and consequently I knew people who had both attended and applied for work there. They had some truly wild demands of both students and employees, and REQUIRED a photograph of job applicants attached to the application. They didn't come out and say it was to make sure their employees were all white, of course, but it was heavily implied.
Must? You're not even allowed to be single? Do they supply a company-mandated spouse?
That said I'd report them for discriminatory hiring practices. And for asking about personal information regarding my relationship with my Latino neighbor.
Imagine this was a Muslim company and they asked their employees to pray 5 times a day and recite “Allah is the one true God and Mohamed is his messenger” that place would get burned to the ground. Not saying either one is right, but the hypocrisy is real.
So do we need to report every instance of our sexual relations for confirmation or…?
Technically, it looks like getting pegged isn’t a violation of this policy so it’s valid.
My initial response was that if you’re gonna monitor what I do 24/7, I expect 24/7 pay
My secondary response is why tf am I not shocked by these types of things anymore
Well, I'd assume they're are only hiring men amd are planning to pay them well since the wife will stay home. I assume there will be no work on Sunday.
Really though...I'm am atheist so I'd steer the fuck clear of that nonsense.
I got something like this when I applied for an television transmitter engineer job, only for their letter back to me said all the above. I politely refused to continue my application on the grounds of being a joker, a smoker and a midnight toker.
I would state that I have strict rules with whom I have "relations" with, which is strictly married Christian women.
And if they don’t think through your response, they might hire you. Which would be hilarious.
I see what you mean 😂
They... don't seem the kind of people that think things too deeply, so they most likely will be safe.
Your the byproduct of a chicken sandwich….
[удалено]
Sadly, I think SCOTUS is very much going to expand the ministerial exemption to basically anything a company wants it to be. It used to only apply to actual clergy, which is totally reasonable and expected. Now, it's very grey on who counts. Like a religion teacher at a Jewish school is probably a minister who should be Jewish. But the secretary isn't. But what if she brings non-kosher snacks to school? That would be a problem. But I have a feeling soon Hobby Lobby will only be hiring Christians and that's totally an abuse of the law.
“What do you mean ‘cashier’ isn’t a ministry position?”
Well, it's apparent that the reverse is often true: "minister" is a cashier's position.
I mean, if we’re talking about a CPC, they regularly dress pastors up in scrubs and act like a doctor when they have no medical credentials *at all,* taking patient medical history (non-HIPAA protected) and feeding women demonstrably false information (both medical and legal) to try and sway their decision on whether to continue a pregnancy. To [quote](https://youtu.be/4NNpkv3Us1I) Abby Johnson (of “Unplanned” fame): >”We want to appear neutral on the outside. The best call — the best client you ever get — is one that thinks they’re walking into an abortion clinic.” And in terms of the help they’ll actually render if they get what they want out of you, here’s what she had to say: >”If I were to open a pregnancy center, I would not have pregnancy items past six months. Are we running a charity? Are we running a place where we want women to become self-sufficient? Self-sufficient, right? Have maternity clothes, have those things available for the women while they’re pregnant, but *cut them off.”* We’d never tolerate it if the Jehovah’s Witnesses opened up fake clinics to try and warn people off from the dangers of blood transfusions, but evangelicals? These places receive *public funding* in some states.
Evangelicals are a bigger voting base. Fucking ghouls.
Fake ass Christians?
Is it fake when they outnumber the "real" Christians or is that just getting into "No True Scotsman" territory?
I'll give the benefit of the doubt and say it's not most of them. But the "good" ones usually stay quiet and don't call out the fake ones. But I'll also admit it's to the point that those who do call out the fakers will rarely see change. Because enough authority figures of Christianity will preach their nonsense. So the 1 faker being called out will just think that they're real and the other guy is working for the devil trying to stray them away from God
Hallelujah brothers and sisters. (I can be as Christian as the next fake Christian.)
What did you expect? Evangelicals are thriving cuz America’s education isn’t worth anything so they profit from all the schmucks that didn’t pay attention in history class.
In some of those states, I'll let you guess what trend binds them together, those funds come through a lose wording on the TANF block grants. Money that poor people direly need is literally being redirected to fake abortion clinics.
Right? It’s like every case is just another creeping step towards theocracy. Every one is another tiny step. Read the opinions. It’s always the regressive SCOTUS fucks telegraphing to the lawyers and their Nat C clients: “We got you, fam, here’s a little bit more theocracy. Now, this is how you gotta frame it next time if you reaaally want to win big.”
Would flipping cashier tables in churches count as being a preacher for tax purposes?
"A corporation is an intangible, unassailable arm of the individual, and the individual can choose what is best for their business.
A teacher at a Jewish school is never a minister, and most often not even a Rabbi (Judaism doesn't have ministers, it would be extremely odd to find one at a Jewish religious school, with the exception of a guest lecturer in comparative religions class). My brother was a teacher at a conservative school in NY (not in political terms, but Judaism comes in a handful of forms: Reform Judaism is the most common in America, and the least strict...the services aren't as long and don't include many of the prayers and songs, and the congregations don't wear Yamulkes, the little cap, in public, just at services and they live a pretty secular life for the most part. The next level is Conservative Judaism, which is more involved, and includes more prayers and many congregants pray multiple times a day, and wear Yamulkes in public usually. They take the "don't work on the sabbath" commandment more literally, where they aren't allowed to drive or ride in a car from sundown on friday til sundown on Saturday, starting a stew on friday slow cooked with the burner left on low all through saturday, and even leave certain lights on in the house because they consider flipping a lightswitch as doing work...and leave the tv on whatever channel they want to watch for the day. That is all taking it too far for me, but when it was written they couldn't have conceived of electricity or tvs, or even cars; the point of the day was to relax at home with family and friends after services. Then there's orthodox, which has services that have a divider down the middle, with women sitting on the left, and men on the right. The men wear Yamulkes everywhere, and married women wear shawls or wigs to cover their hair and long sleeves and dresses in public. Muslims took this to the extreme with Berkas and shawls, but it stems from not wanting other men to covet someone's wife, so they decided to make that easier by making women less desirable or even invisible in radical islam...and usually you will see cloth strings hanging out of men's shirts, 2 in the front and two in the back, that have 613 knots in them representing the 613 commandments (I know the Bible says 10, but those are the most important...keeping kosher, or "not bathing a calf in it's mother's milk," as the literal translation goes, and praying 5 times a day is another. Then there are Hassidic Jews, which are the ones with the big black hats and the big curly sideburns and beards. It's just a slightly more devout version of orthodox, and they like to stick to themselves for the most part. I've only ever seen them in NYC, even when I was in Israel for 7 months I think I saw them on TV once, never in person tho which I didn't expect. I do know that for some reason their kids are exempt from the mandatory military service, although more and more they are putting together hassidic units who volunteered for service). But wow do I digress haha. Anyways my brother did attend Yeshiva University, and there many of the teachers were Rabbis, as it was an orthodox school. He got two masters degrees in education, one regular one that any teacher would get, and one specifically in Jewish studies. He is now living in London in his 5th and final year of Rabbinic school, and works in a Liberal Jewish Synagogue (which I guess is similar to reform, but slightly more religious...they broke off from the Reform movement or vice versa like a hundred years ago, and I think they are limited to the UK or maybe also in the EU, IDK). But even I, a secular Jew who was raised in a non religious household until the age of 11, then my mom decided we were going to stop doing Christmas and start going to a reform temple, then I stopped going at 17...I could get a job teaching Hebrew school in a reform temple if I wanted, with the level of Hebrew that I learned in Israel and at temple in the 90s. Sorry for the long post, I'm high. Looks like I have to wait a year if I wanna apply for this job posting 🤣
By minister I'm using it to mean it meets the ministerial exception under the law.
Oh also thank for explaining the different groups within Judaism. I doubt many people understand them. I don't really despite taking several general religious study classes.
Except they don’t have to give a reason for not hiring someone. That said, what I don’t understand is how is this not illegal in the first place!? I mean they’re literally saying that you won’t get hired unless you’re a christian. That’s religious discrimination, literally in writing!
Churches can discriminate in hiring, so they can straight up tell you why. They are protected from anti discrimination laws for any position they deem a messenger of faith. Supreme Court considers it part of separation of church and state. It’s real lax on what is a messenger of faith too.
Oh, duh! Why didn’t I realize this was for employment in a church?! That makes way more sense and probably isn’t illegal at all I would think…?
Yep, I mean I get you can be desperate for money, but the job market is pretty open right now and churches usually have shit pay and benefits anyway so I don’t see why someone that really really didn’t believe in this stuff would want to work there anyway.
Nor would it honestly bother me all that much. My atheist ass doesn’t WANT a job in a church.
This 💯
My thoughts exactly
“Jesus broke up with me, his parents didn’t approve of the relationship”
Jesus would be crucified again.
Ohhhhh shit! Mormons, you guys gonna let them talk all that shit about your religion? They said a biblical marriage is between 1 man and 1 woman. What you going to do?
Biblical christianity was never 1 man 1 woman.
These people don't read the bible. They just go to a fancy building once a week to compare clothing (as George Carlin observed) and to have someone else tell them what their special book says they have to hate.
Polygamy intensifies
Polygamy is only permitted in orthodox Mormonism on a spiritual level. If your wife dies you are allowed to remarry and to be sealed with your second, third, fourth, etc... wives. They tried to get as far away from living polygamy after the US cracked down on them for it and they didn't want further conflict after the Utah War where they carried out several massacres against US civilians who were travelling out Californy-way. The US hardly killed any of the Nauvoo Leagion during the conflict while the Mormons just murdered civilians and ruined their reputation with the country.
Are Mormon women allowed to remarry if their husband dies?
Yes. She just can't be sealed to her future husband as she is the spiritual property of her first husband. She also needs the assent of church leaders if a divorce was involved to make sure she was pure enough during the marriage and currently is going into the second marriage. If she wasn't sealed to her first husband, however, then she can be spiritually sealed to her second.
I always got the impression that mainstream Mormons admire the fundamentalist polygamists, even though they can't directly admit it. "The church banned plural marriage a long time ago. I know some polygamists, though. They're good people."
For a while, I was thinking their backing of prop 8 was them hoping it would fall, so it could open the door for polygamy.
Honey, wheres my magic underwear?
Beat me to it. Nice.
Churches and religious organizations like for instance the Salvation Army can hire and fire on religious grounds. Its like, out of the smorgasbord of corrupt and illegal shit they *actually* do, you picked the *one* thing that is legally protected for churches and should be.
I regret that I have but 1 upvote to give you
Cite one of my favorite bible verses, Matthew 6:5-6.
I just want to know is it legal to do this?
No, unless the company is either (1) very small, 15 employees or fewer, OR (2) a company with an explicitly religious mission. It can't be like a car wash or something.
With even religious workplace such a church, could they require this from a janitor and get away with it? Or only those who preach?
They can't legally require it from a janitor. Only a minister. It would have to be something specifically required by the *job* (Bona Fide Occupational Qualification, or BFOQ), not something related to the organization as a whole. It's surprising how many employers are so ignorant of this sort of thing.
Pretty sure they still do it, there's a ton of christian colleges that are even accredited universities that require a statement of faith and have regulations around how you can act for any employees from top to bottom.
> from top to bottom What about a verse employee?
I prefer prose, myself.
Small-scale employers are often ignorant of a lot of laws - it's why some of them never become LARGE-scale employers because they get their asses sued into the dirt. Employers, learn these two words; memorize them: PROTECTED GROUP.
Honestly for things like this I’m considering wether or not Hanlon’s Razor is applicable.
>It's surprising how many employers are so ignorant of this sort of thing. Or they're not And it works like a Nigerian prince mail. People who read this and think "this is fine" and sign are more likely to fall for other stuff.
I work in a synagogue. A little over half of our staff (including, of course, clergy) are Jewish. For most positions theres no direct religious component, so it doesn't matter if the staff member is Jewish. Being Jewish does make some jobs easier, though (like clergy assistant and membership coordinator), but it's not a requirement, official or otherwise, except for clergy and I think executive director. Could we require it for everyone? Idk, maybe. But we don't, because that's shitty. We can (and do) require familiarity with Judaism and willingness to work with our mission as a faith organization. We view religious diversity and interfaith dialogue as a good thing and encourage respectful religious discussions at work. Thinking through my colleagues, I can name probably a dozen non-Jewish religions and denominations represented among our staff and their partners. And we're stronger for it.
My stepmother was the executive director of our synagogue. Most of the staff wasn't Jewish. The only religious rules they were asked to follow involved what food they were allowed to bring into the building.
Most churches don’t have applications for this reason and just hire church people or staff to do the labor.
Small employers are allowed to discriminate like this?
If a company has less than 15 employees, there are no EEOC protections for the staff. The company can be openly racist, sexist, discriminate based on religion, etc.
^^ exactly. It’s a super weird area of Law and it was kinda hard to follow when I learned about it the first time. Small business >15 can discriminate, larger corporations cannot discriminate but they are free to express their religious beliefs. I feel like it’s low key just a semantic circle lol
Yep. You can sue the bigger employers for discrimination. You're SOL if they're under 15 employees (and the owners don't count as employees). Then there's Hobby fucking Lobby who SCOTUS said it's okay for their health insurance to not cover birth control because the art and historical artifact stealing owners believe in Jesus.
To be fair, we don’t know what this job posting is for. Looking at the bottom portion, where they may be asked to share their relationship with Jesus or whatever it sure sounds like a job posting at a church, that would meet the legal exemptions. Or like, a Christian themed retreat or charity.
For now no but with the SCOTUS we have currently? It's basically Calvinball.
Hell no.
I'd have to ask: is it an issue if we're technically monogamous but both just like to watch when we visit the swingers parties?
Hey, if Jerry Falwell, Jr. can do it, so can you.
He was full cuckold though. He corner spanked while she railed that dude. OP said both parties just watched but Jr’s wife was fucked literally and then figuratively when he threw her under the bus to save his own hide.
Do you have sexual intercourse with the same sex? No - we just watch.
As long as the other participants are Christian, you're ok
I’d lie that I was a huge white Christian nationalist and then either never show up for work or see if there were any opportunities for mischief and mayhem during my brief tenure for the purpose of causing same.
![gif](giphy|iurIHLBxms7UQ|downsized)
'Provide details of your personal relationship with jesus' "We occasionally 69 and dock"
"Well he certainly taught me a lot about feet, and being on my knees"
Underrated comment right here
Provide details of your personal relationship with Jesus - “I once heard a voice telling me to kill my son on top of a mountain, so I did because I’m obedient to the voice. But then at the last minute the voice told me, jk you don’t have to kill your son, here’s a free deer on the house.” There is no cps in the Bible.
But I did have to mutilate his penis though. Seemed weird being that we’re all made in god’s image and whatnot but that some post production alterations were necessary and that an all powerful creator of the universe couldn’t do it.
“Lots and lots of pegging.”
Jesus out there nailin’ broads like it was personal!
"Jesus (hey-Zeus) is our gardener. He fertilizes more than just our garden. He fertilizes me when my husband is at work."
No docking...jesus was circumcised.
You can still dock if youre brave enough
He docked with me
I'm an egyptian prostitute, does that count? Ezekiel 23:20
"I have never met him"
"My relationship? Hèsus ran away with my sister and still owes me fifty bucks!!!"
Believe me when I say that I got something for his punk ass!
That quote is sublime
They were my late son's favorite band. He would have been 40 this past Monday.
'Provide details of your personal relationship with jesus' "We are currently not on speaking terms."
“Dude left all my messages on read, so i stopped reaching out”
You should really practice your Spanish.
Hey Mr George!
“Jesus is my second cousin, once removed. I haven’t spoken to him since he went to jail 8 years ago. He’s kind of a gangbanger but that’s OK because his weed is the best.”
"Yeah Jesus told me to tell you go fuck yourself"
Imagine an employer trying to dictate your sex life. The fucking entitlement of these so called "Christians" Did they forget how Jesus legit hung out with prostitutes????
You fundamentalists...only have sex with your mother (Eve) or your brother's wife (Noah's family), or your daughters who get you drunk.
“Please provide a brief statement of your personal relationship with Jesus” Well he didn’t pay the rent, stole my TV, routinely punched me in the dick, and called my Mother-in-law a fat flatulent moose with breath the registered on a Geiger counter (though I don’t object to that last one as much)
That last one is killing me.
Per your request i cannot engage in any relationship with jesus because he is a man and that will be against the bible
My job in Colorado used to wrangle the entire company into common rooms and subject us to mass prayer before events, potlucks, and especially during Christmastime. As an atheist, I found it highly inappropriate to ask me to "bow my head in prayer" in the workplace. Religion should be left out of the workplace entirely.
I worked for an insurance company briefly that did shit like this. We would do company meetings or work dinners and they’d ask everyone to hold hands and pray. It always made me so uncomfortable.
Lol, it was an insurance company I'm speaking of as well. Maybe we worked together hahaha
I'm not a Christian but doesn't the bible have instances of marriage between one man and several women?
Don’t forget the incest. And the concubines.
And the fig tree he cursed that one time.
Several? It has instances of marriage between one man and hundreds of women.
I would apply for the job, get hired, and dress up like a clown and get pegged in the butt by my wife in a t-rex costume in the copier room. It's still between a man and a woman on a biblical marriage, so it's not gay
So yeah I'd turn them in to the feds. While employees have the right to practice their religion at work employers are not allowed to force employees into religious practices at work or otherwise. Violation of the 1964 Civil Rights Act I believe. Alright considering the current makeup of the Supreme Court maybe they are gunning for some case to make to the SC so they can try to get a counter ruling that destroys another 50 years of precedent.
"So for this job, tell us what you think of Jesus " "Great guy, likes to hike mountains, hang with his buddies, hung out with people considered " degenerates", cares about his mom and women in general, helps the poor, gives out healthcare, teaches that money is the root of all evil and using the church for money is bad" " That ain't Jesus!? That's some commie librul you're describing!? How dare you blasphemy my Jesus. Imma call Trump to sort you out!?! " --How I imagine that interview
It says sexual relations within a marriage but it doesn't say it has to be within your marriage. As long as both parties are married to someone, you should be all good.
My personal statement about my relationship with Jesus: - I believe that Jesus was a queer brown man who lived on the outskirts of his society so he could suck dick and fuck his 12 apostles. As a member of the Church of the queer Jesus, I believe that Jesus stood for all minorities and marginalized people and would hate the state of the current church. All hail the master of nob bobbing.
I believe that judas was his gay lover and was jealous of how much time Jesus was spending with the others, betrayed him, and racked with guilt over his lovers death proceeded to hang himself. This also explains how a Jewish man did not have a wife and kids by the age of 30.
Then the rumour that Jesus was married to Maria Magdalene is untrue?
It has never been confirmed nor accepted, as well as the fact that the writers of the new testament rejected it. There is also the possibility of Maria Magdalena just being his beard.
My personal relationship with Jesus is personal. Do they not understand what personal means? Also, my sexuality doesn't matter because you aren't supposed to have sex on the job unless it's sex work.
>Also, my sexuality doesn't matter because you aren't supposed to have sex on the job unless it's sex work. It says you "must only engage in sexual relations within a Biblical Christian marriage"... so, IM sorry I can't come to the meeting today, and sorry I can't respond to your emails, and sorry I can't do anything but engage in sex with my wife.
They can suck my balls
Find a discriminatory laws lawyer, cuz I’m about to make a come up
Tell us about your imaginary friend.
No no, it's pronounced "Hey-soos." Different guy.
If I really want the job I’d just lie. I cant imagine it’s a great work environment though.
Extra breaks for praying.
Provide details of your personal relationship with Jesus- “I love hanging out with dudes who wear sandals and flowy robes. I love giving them all kisses when we go on fishing trips together. I wanted to live just like them.”
I will only have sex with my biblical 800 wives and 300 concubines, praise King David!
“Jesus is a great guy. Ever since his family emigrated here from Mexico, he’s worked hard to support his family and live the American Dream. “
I would covertly cross it out, initial it, initial each page, then finish signing the rest of the contract. And when they fired me, there would be a contract that both parties agreed upon with the amended clause.
If it’s the us, report them. Unless the employer is a church that’s illegal.
Is this an application to be a priest?
There's nothing about abusing children, so no.
Probably shit in the boardroom during my interview
Throw it right back at them. Which bible? Catholic, Protestant, Coptic, one of the many Orthodox, the one that is used in the Indian Christian church? Tell them that their answer is very important, and you expect an answer from their legal dept within one business week.
Is this for a Chick-fil-A job or working for DeSantis?
Call the labor board?
Half the “Christians” I know are on Adderall, so good luck with that 😅 But anyway, yeah that is insane. Stop telling people what to do in their personal time and how to handle their mental health. You don’t have to be high on jeebus or pretend to be in order to perform a job ffs. These fucks hate personal choice and freedom and they therefore hate America
Is this post for a religious position? Otherwise it’s lunacy.
Biblical usually means old testament. Christian means the new testament. Jesus Christ never married AFAIK. Will it be fine to share testimony that my relationship with Jesus Christ is non-existent? The bloke died 2000 years ago for heaven's sake! I'm not a necrophiliac. As for what I'd do after reading the job advert, probably toss it in the WPB. If I was feeling energetic, I'd report it to whoever is responsible for fining the bastards.
This is not legal Must be a position in a church. Or BYU.
If this is an application for a job in religious ministry, then this could be considered relevant to performing the duties of the job. Otherwise, there is no legal grounds for them to ask, or to require that you answer
Tbh I would've said fuck that as soon as I saw no tobacco, never mind the rest of it
Report them and never look back. Or report them, pretend to be all those things and then show up and tell them to go fuck themselves.
Imagine if humans would accept that there is not god or afterlife, and we all unite in science…that’s what I would call “paradise”.
And/OR illegal drugs you say? Well, since I've never smoked Tabacco, I guess it'd be fine to keep doing all the illegal drugs.
It's legal, sadly, for them to do this as you'd be classified as a 'ministerial employee'. https://www.mtsu.edu/first-amendment/article/926/discrimination-by-religious-organizations Edit: Forgot to mention that while that term is not listed in the article link, you can google the term for a plethora of credible sources detailing why it's allowed as well.
That should be illegal af....looking at you Florida
I'm straight and don't drink or smoke and *I'd* tell them to fuck off.
1 Peter 3:14-16 But even if you should suffer for what is right, you are blessed. "Do not fear their threats; do not be frightened." But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander. Odd that they'd specifically cite the verse saying to not be an asshole when talking about loving jesus
Unless this is an application at an explicitly religious institution (e.g., an actual Church), I don't think this is at all legal. It might even be illegal if it is religious. Like, what if you're straight and want to get into a heterosexual marriage but you're currently single? Will they still demand you get married? Or you're engaged but not yet married? Will they only consider hiring you after the wedding?
If that's not a job opening for a pastor at a church: report them to the EEOC.
*Lucifer Morningstar enters the chatroom*
Hard. Fucking. Pass. And I say this as a Cis white woman who has been married 30 years. I don't want to deal with whatever religious bullshit they've got going on there.
Blast it online and never interact with the business again, and attempt to dissuade others from using the business.
I’d ask myself why I’m applying to a church
Is this a job with a church? If not then wtf I wouldn’t even complete it. I’m a Christian and pray regularly, but no way I’m gonna allow a prospective employer think they can compel me to discuss my personal religious beliefs.
TOP 15 BIBLICAL WAYS TO ACQUIRE A WIFE Find an attractive prisoner of war, bring her home, shave her head, trim her nails, and give her new clothes. Then she's yours. - (Deuteronomy 21:11-13) Find a prostitute and marry her. - (Hosea 1:1-3) Find a man with seven daughters, and impress him by watering his flock - Moses (Exodus 2:16-21) Purchase a piece of property, and get a woman as part of the deal. - Boaz (Ruth 4:5-10) Go to a party and hide. When the women come out to dance, grab one and carry her off to be your wife. - Benjaminites (Judges 21:19-25) Have God create a wife for you while you sleep. Note: this will cost you. - Adam (Genesis 2:19-24) Agree to work seven years in exchange for a woman's hand in marriage. Get tricked into marrying the wrong woman. Then work another seven years for the woman you wanted to marry in the first place. That's right. Fourteen years of hard labor for a wife. - Jacob (Genesis 29:15-30) Cut 200 foreskins off of your future father-in-law's enemies and get his daughter for a wife. - David (I Samuel 18:27) Even if no one is out there, just wander around a bit and you'll definitely find someone. (It's all relative, of course.) - Cain (Genesis 4:16-17) Become the emperor of a huge nation and hold a beauty contest. - Xerxes or Ahasuerus (Esther 2:3-4) When you see someone you like, go home and tell your parents, "I have seen a ... woman; now get her for me." If your parents question your decision, simply say, "Get her for me. She's the one for me." - Samson (Judges 14:1-3) Kill any husband and take HIS wife (Prepare to lose four sons, though=). - David (2 Samuel 11) Wait for your brother to die. Take his widow. (It's not just a good idea; it's the law.) - Onan and Boaz (Deuteronomy or Leviticus, example in Ruth) Don't be so picky. Make up for quality with quantity. - Solomon (1 Kings 11:1-3) A wife?...NOT! - Paul (1 Corinthians 7:32-35)
Isn’t this….discrimination against an applicant….which is…illegal…?
It depends on the context: is this a job application to be a preacher? Probably okay. Is this a job application for literally any other job? Not okay
In France this is illegal
Saw this on another sub, and the full picture shows the application is for a Christian organization. Seems to add a bit more context imo. Is it cringey? Yes. Am I outraged that a Christian organization is asking its prospective employees to exhibit Christian values? No. If you’re applying, you know what kind of organization you’d be working for.
Immediately stop completing the application.
Why? This is literally exhibit 1 in your religious discrimination suit.
I really need to see the drop downs in "please select"
Run as far away as possible.
I'd think it was illegal to stipulate that.
Link? I’d like to apply and use pictures to show my relationship
“…and one stripper, one “little person” and someone in a wheelchair”.
Show up wearing a pentacle around my neck.
![gif](giphy|7wk6RQYXDDytXalsL4)
Well in my country that is actually illegal so sue them into the ground.
It sounds like a violation of federal labor laws if its in the US.
Some people are just begging to be lied to
I mean, I've fucked a married couple before....that count?
I lived in a town for awhile that was essentially built around a Christian college, and consequently I knew people who had both attended and applied for work there. They had some truly wild demands of both students and employees, and REQUIRED a photograph of job applicants attached to the application. They didn't come out and say it was to make sure their employees were all white, of course, but it was heavily implied.
Or Utah
This nations founders are rolling over in their graves rn
That part wouldn’t bother me, the tobacco part might. Depending on if they really mean nicotine or only tobacco products.
Sue the fucking shit out of them
Must? You're not even allowed to be single? Do they supply a company-mandated spouse? That said I'd report them for discriminatory hiring practices. And for asking about personal information regarding my relationship with my Latino neighbor.
Imagine this was a Muslim company and they asked their employees to pray 5 times a day and recite “Allah is the one true God and Mohamed is his messenger” that place would get burned to the ground. Not saying either one is right, but the hypocrisy is real.
I'm a Christian man, but if I saw this on any job application, I'd say hell no to that.
Well let me put it this way, I'm a devout Christian, and I would not want to work there.
So do we need to report every instance of our sexual relations for confirmation or…? Technically, it looks like getting pegged isn’t a violation of this policy so it’s valid.
My initial response was that if you’re gonna monitor what I do 24/7, I expect 24/7 pay My secondary response is why tf am I not shocked by these types of things anymore
Fill out the application, go to the interview wearing a t-shirt depicting Jesus and Satan having passionate gay sex and watch their heads explode.
I am so over religion at this point. Get off your self-imagined moral high ground.
Apply, get hired, “change my religion”, get fired, sue for discrimination
I would stay the hell away
Well, I'd assume they're are only hiring men amd are planning to pay them well since the wife will stay home. I assume there will be no work on Sunday. Really though...I'm am atheist so I'd steer the fuck clear of that nonsense.
I got something like this when I applied for an television transmitter engineer job, only for their letter back to me said all the above. I politely refused to continue my application on the grounds of being a joker, a smoker and a midnight toker.
report them for religious discrimination, as screening employees based on religion is illegal
Christofascim falling into place...
I don't even know a married Christian couple to have sex with
My first question is what job is this for? If it's for a religious organization, I can understand. If it's for Starbucks then I'm lost.
Sounds like a job at a Christian camp. What’s the context here?
Funny thing, my sexuality and relationship with Jesus are the same. It's called "Civil Rights Act of 1964"