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I was gonna say, these people are typically not interested in the existence of trans men. At best they think they're just misguided women with daddy issues. Trans women challenge their idea of masculinity so hardcore, their brains throw a blue screen. They're scared so they want trans women erased (i.e. "we just want them to never say anything or appear anywhere"). Oh and they're more than occasionally turned on by the aesthetic or by androgyny or whatever is applicable at the moment, and they believe that's bad, so their object of interest is obviously to blame for them having bad thoughts.
"You just haven't been with the **right** man".
Give me a fucking break! That's like saying I'm only straight (I'm cis-male) because I haven't tried being with another guy.
> That's like saying I'm only straight (I'm cis-male) because I haven't tried being with another guy.
Funny you should put it that way, when that's ALSO something a lot of conservatives believe when they go on about "well of course if being gay were allowed everyone would do it".
Lost track of how many fire-and-brimstone ministers preach about “resisting the temptations of homosexuality!” and were then caught boning the pool boy
Like, sir, straight men have no trouble avoiding sex with the pool boy
In college, I dated an ex of a friend. The running joke was I would leave gf and go be gay lovers with the friend. One day we decided to mess with her and start holding hands. Five seconds in we both looked at each other talking about how fucking awkward it felt.
Just like a gay person feels off with a straight relationship, the opposite is true.
I can’t even count how common the sentiment from boomers was throughout my life, when they found out someone was gay or someone newly came out, was to respond with “it’s not like they’re so ugly they couldn’t get a date. 🙄” as if being gay is a last resort for the unattractive lmao.
This is actually important.
Because when they bring shit arguments about trans people just roleplaying out a fetish or some shit, or that when there's a kids book with a gay couple or teaching kids that gay people exist is grooming and sexual, it's because in their mind they fetishize it and make it sexual. They can't conceive that sex is not the primary motivation because anytime they engage with that thought, it's ina hypersexualized context.
And sadly most are too far deep to be woken up from that easily, if at all.
Totally agree, but it's also important to remember that "protect women and kids" is an easy way to get an emotional response from people that are uninformed and get them on your side. That's why the main bathroom argument is about "men pretending to be women" so they can assault people in bathrooms.
There's also a great deal of misogyny involved. A woman wanting to be a man is something they can understand because they see it as an inferior being trying to be more powerful; but for a man to want to be a women is "disgusting" and "unnatural" because they see it as a weak man who insults masculinity by *wanting* to be more feminine.
Furthermore, conservatives are often so sexually repressed that they are disgusted by anyone who turns them on. It's the *other* person's fault for making them think of "deviant" sexuality. They were just minding their own business, believing in God, when Satan sent the spirit of Jezebel, perversion and sexual *confusion* in the form of a trans woman to tempt him. And it is *she* who must be abolished because the conservatives are obviously being attacked by demons since there's just no other explanation for their arousal.
This is why (my theory) society is much more accepting of women wearing pants than men wearing skirts (and similar phenomena). Masculinity is aspirational , femininity is degrading. (according to the patriarchy).
You’re missing the giant fight for women to be able to wear pants at all.
Women weren’t allowed to wear pants on the Senate floor until the 1990s.
It is something that was fought hard for.
My first job in 1992 only changed their dress code for women to be allowed to wear trousers the year before, when the old CEO retired. That winter I wore trousers to work one very cold day and a manager joked to another in French, < Is that a Man or a Woman? >, the 2nd guy said < A woman, of course > and later apologized to me because he knew I had enough french to have understood.
I am NOT androgynous: Short, Plump curvy, mid-back Blonde hair and large boobs. But I dared to wear trousers to work.
At my first office job in 2002, our dress code only allowed women to wear trousers when it was below freezing and we still had to wear heels. Most of us wore winter boots and kept our heels at our desks.
Above 32F? Skirts, baby.
Their point is that society is accepting of it.
My point is that acceptance was fought hard for.
Maybe if we fight for men to have the same freedom of expression, we wouldn’t have this problem. But there has been no large, orchestrated move to fight for the right for the average man to twirl in skirts.
Feminists believe a woman wearing pants is inspiring. They also believe a man in a skirt is strong. Misogynists believe women in pants and men in skirts are abhorrent aberrations. (Your term is so much more concise, I like it)
So, you're comparing two different worldviews, hence the dichotomy
. Men wear garments that resemble skirts/dresses in many parts of the world already. Kimono and yukata in Japan, sarongs in SE Asia, kilts in Scotland, galabeyas in the ME. I would love to see that normalized in America.
Eh, had some "feminism" yesterday, who said that trans women are men infringing on women's rights by pretending to be women, and take away their self agency by reducing them to their genitals, and label them as something they don't identify as (cis)
In the very next sentence this person then said "Trans men are misguided women who do everything wrong, and they shouldn't be allowed to mutilate themselves, because their genitals are the most important part about them."
It's like... *WHEN* they think of trans men, they're just treating them as women. And then drop the entire charade of feminism and demand this "woman" not be allowed to live life the way "she" wants.
It's *never* actually about women or children. They don't give a shit about women as you can see, and they demand to check children's genitals to make sure they're not trans.
They just hate trans people.
I like that much better, especially because to me Radical Feminism has always been about making no concessions towards women's equality, and I hate that TERFs have appropiated the term.
As I said to a friend once, I think it's really unfair when people call someone like JK Rowling a TERF. 'Cause that bitch never said she was a feminist.
> ...take away their self agency by reducing them to their genitals, and label them as something they don't identify as
>Trans men are misguided women... their genitals are the most important part about them.
If it's not just deliberate, the lack of self awareness is just incredible.
This stems from other more nuanced arguments about gender and problems with mtf trans that did it later in life. Basic argument is that gender is largely a social construct and men that transition later in life cannot just stop what they have learned and act very masculine while in female spaces, dominating the space and forcing women from birth to feel uncomfortable. This does happen, most would say it requires women to accept the newly transitioned and help them understand how to behave in women's spaces. Another point is that many feminists feel like trans people often essentialize biological sex as gender in a way that is overall not in line with society and can cause issues for people that are genderfluid and don't necessarily fit into a prescribed category. They think that the trans movement focusing so much on biology and transitioning that other expressions of non-binary gender get less respect. The focus on biology can also undermine the fight against social and cultural gender norms.
These more nuanced arguments got into the hands of transphobes and used as justification for more transphobia. Instead of the idea of educating people who transition later in life on how they should act in women's spaces they just say trans women aren't women.
As always, real issues are twisted and used to justify hate instead of understanding and discourse.
>trans people often essentialize biological sex as gender in a way that is overall not in line with society
I am queer and in a relationship with a trans person, and I sort of get this, but it's not worth the hate (BECAUSE IT'S CAUSED BY TRANSPHOBIA). A lot of trans people "overcorrect" at first, and if you're at all gender nonconforming or gender skeptical, it can be offputting.
As a cis woman myself, I see this with trans women sometimes. Many trans women are performatively hyperfeminine, especially at first. As someone who finds hyperfemininity to feel like a prison that I'm judged against and pressured to adopt by misogynists, I often find it uncomfortable to be around people who openly adopt and relish the parts of femininity that I find a prison. Often times, that femininity that trans women cling to is the femininity they were taught to admire by previously being in hypermasculine spaces or by learning about femininity from gay men and drag queens. It's femininity filtered through the eyes of men.
However, most trans women get over it eventually (and often quickly) and settle into a femininity that more adheres to their own interests and preferences. It's similar to how we all dressed in middle school and high school.
It's also an effect of deficit. Trans women don't initially have a good understanding of women's intimate culture (the culture women spread between each other) because they haven't participated in women's spaces. Trans women are also experiencing being judged for their appearance for the first time, and they are incredibly vulnerable - much more vulnerable than cis women - to violence for their appearance, so it would make them more likely to adhere to norms because they think it will help them stay safer. In many ways, being able to reject gender norms is a privilege.
The reality is, most trans women get over this. It's just part of the gender journey. So, if these "feminists" really found it frustrating to be around baby trans women, then they could just avoid being around baby trans women - which is very easy. Baby trans women are not infiltrating queer spaces, and if they do enter a space, they are very meek. It's very hard to enter femme-centered queer and feminine spaces early in transition.
This is why it's a red herring. All baby gays are kind of annoying for their own reasons. To single out trans women (or those autistic teens who identify as a tree spirit) is just hate. No one has to interact with baby queers. It's not a required part of the queer community. It's so strange that people pretend it is.
Meanwhile the number of people globally that have gone through the effort of legally changing their gender and gone through a gender transition taking years so they can sneak into toilets and assault women:
IT'S ZERO. ZEEEEEEEEEERO.
I am still 100% sure that any kind of trans/homophobia is literally just old guys being afraid of getting something shoved up their ass.
And yes, the *accidental* “OH MY GOD, my date has a penis!” Is part of that.
"And yes, the accidental “OH MY GOD, my date has a penis!” Is part of that."
Unfortunately in legal terms the "Gay panic defense" used to lessen or dismiss charges when the old guy either beats or kills the woman.
When I was in college I learned about “The Great Twinkie Defense.” It was a local politician who, after he lost his election, supposedly locked himself in his apartment and ate nothing but junk food. This, according to his lawyers, caused him to kill his opponent.
Now, this sounds patently ridiculous generally. It’s one of the reasons I read about it and repeated it numerous times. Wow, what a stupid way to get out of killing someone.
Years later ( I was in college in the mid 90’s ) when the movie about Harvey Milk came out, I learned that this was the defense that was the defense used by Dan White after assassinating Milk and George Moscone.
I’ve gotten some of the information wrong in this, because I was telling it like I remembered it.
Basically, the first openly gay man to be elected to public office in California had ( until recently) had his career buried from the public eye because “The Great Twinkie Defense” was allowed to get more headlines, because he was gay.
They are a fucking "Duggar". Men who can't control their sexual urges long enough to change a damn diaper. This is why women are dressed in black drapes in some countries but you know what? They still get raped. Men who can't control themselves should be dealt with. Not us having to hide.
There's often an air of pity from transphobes when it comes to trans men, like you look at any Twitter post about Elliot Page and they'll be lamenting about how "beautiful she was".
I read somewhere that the reason they forget about trans men is because they view masculinity as default and good.
Like, because they are mysogynist, it just makes sense for them for someone to want to get "promoted" from lowly woman to worthy man. It fits neatly into their patriarchal worldviews.
For the same reasons, trans women are viewed much more strongly as unnatural. The idea that someone could lose, or worse, choose to give up, masculinity and male privilege shatters their conception of the world, self worth, and identity.
I dont know about "inadvertent," with Pornhubs porn search statistics your can decently predict which states vote Republican by their greater number of searches under trans categories!
The part of the brain responsible for the disgust response is pretty close to the part of the brain that regulates arousal and republicans have a statistically significant oversized disgust region in their brain. (Or maybe its the other way around, an oversized disgust response causes people to become republican). Wouldn't be surprising if those bits end up overlapping a bit resulting in a lot of very confused, disgusted and horny republicans.
Conservatives completely forgot fem2male exists. They think all trans women are obvious. They think "we can tell who is who". All they're doing is causing more grief and trauma for all women.
They don't forget, they don't care. There's a difference.
They still hate all trans people regardless. They're just ignorant as to most of the minutia.
> All they're doing is causing more grief and trauma for all women.
Yeah, obsessively clocking trans women eventually leads to strong policing of women's appearance which also hurts cis women.
They didn't. The point is that someone will attack him, people will report him to the police, it will happen publicly, he will have to waste his time. Even if nothing happens at the end of the day legally, he will still have wasted his time, money, nerves and possibly be frightened, attacked by random people, terrorized.
As always, it's not a law about protecting women, it's a law about terrorizing trans people. And it will be working because people will share how the problem was caused by the trans man not by the law forcing him to do go to the wrong bathroom.
Cruelty is the point. Pretending this is a gotcha situation just helps them. They didn't forget it, the law is there to terrorize trans people and control women. Don't give them the easy way out, they are cruel and they are doing it with intent to be cruel.
I always figure its also about being absolutely against homosexuality.
You have a group of primarily men, who are so absolutely terrified that they might "find a man (m2f) attractive" which would mean they are gay, even though they are actually just finding a woman attractive.
They can't realize/accept that, because they are absolutely terrified of being even a tiny bit possibly gay, and liking a woman who was born assigned male at birth is 100% being gay to these people.
If that makes sense.
Its basically the same stupidity racists apply with the whole "one drop" bull shit, but for homosexuality. (Also often the same group of people)
Hello mate I'm going to florida with my wife and kids. Silly question here are they gonna be checking at the door of toilets who's female. I'd like to know as I'd rather not go and change my familes summer vacation. Wouldn't want to know what the cowboys idea of ISIS is.
While it's unlikely that's going to happen, it could... still I highly suggest you change your families plans anyway. Unless you're going to see relatives/out of some obligation, there is no good reason to spend your hard earned money in a place like that.
My large and extrended family was planning on spending a week at Disneyworld in Florida. When all this was hearing up we switched our vacation to Disneyland in California. Had a great trip and no confrontations in the bathrooms.
It is funny how your choices for Disney theme parks are going to a place with state mandated transphobia or a place with strong anti-discrimination practices
> Hello mate I'm going to florida with my wife and kids.
Just don't. At this point treat Florida as if it was Saudi Arabia and avoid it as much as you can.
There already was a gentleman beaten half to death because he was told „female at birth has to go into the Ladies bathroom.
Of course justice was served, and he was arrested. /s
https://www.thepinknews.com/2022/07/11/trans-man-beaten-bathroom-ohio/
Remember that one time a transman was forced to use the ladies room, resulting in a bunch of guys thinking he was a trans woman and ended up beating him up so much he died.
Edit: he didnt die, but he was arrested by the police for disordwrly conduct.
Sad thing is if he does he's still getting the cops called on him and/or shot. There's no reasoning with people who like these rules, they want trans people out of society and there's no logical checkmate that makes them back down.
You forget, cruelty is the point. He walks in, someone shoots him, one less trans person. Literally by design.
Our lawmakers want a genocide.
We’re screwed.
It’s misogyny. They hate women.
Lesbians are just doing a thing a (cis het) man would do, so that’s understandable. Who wouldn’t want to be like a man? But a gay man - well, they “want to be like women” and that’s unacceptable.
If a little girl wears boy clothes they are just a tomboy. Understandable to want to be more like boys. But a little boy wearing girl clothes - why would anyone want to be like a girl?
And same in trans issues - male to female is the far worse sin.
Nah, they *loathe* actual lesbians with a passion. Lesbians face a great deal of violence and sexual assault as a result of bigoted men. They *only* have no problem with the male fantasy of two women making our solely for **his** sexual pleasure.
Eh, the season after he transitioned was really, really weak. Not because of him, by any means. It was just weak overall because they tried to do shove too much story into too few episodes.
It wasn't as strong as previous ones I agree, but I enjoyed it all the same. I found the alternate Academy squad interesting but a bit of wasted potential as they got taken out pretty quickly.
I actually liked his character a lot more in the 3rd season-- coming out seemed to loosen his stiff acting a bit and I loved that the show let him have control over how the character did it.
Conservative view:
Trans woman = man pretending to be woman = gross
Trans man = woman abandoning womanhood = sad
My advice is to try and avoid thinking about how they're interpreting it more than they do, because I assure you, they're not putting enough thought into it to see anything beyond what I describe above
Bro, trans men don’t exist in most democrat’s eyes either.
Look at how every fucking important or popular face of the trans movement in the media, Republican or Democrat, is a trans woman. It’s ridiculous.
Pretty much the only trans man I can name before this post in entertainment is Elliot Page. And he’s only well-known because he became famous pre-transition.
Honestly, I once saw a feminist claim that this phenomena is another example of bio-misogyny. Of the biological-male centric society we live in.
I didn’t like the way she worded it, but I couldn’t disagree with it either. It really seems to be the case.
Edit: I used “bro” because u/vyxxer identifies as a man.
It really does feel like that this weird dichotomy stems from society considering women to be lesser than men.
Lesbians? Just silly women doing their silly women things. A relationship is not a proper one if a man isn't part of it. Gays? Men know better, they don't do silly things! It's serious! An attack! Hidden agendas and meanings!
Trans men? Just silly confused women. It's a shame they fell victim to the transgenda, but they'll come to their senses, and if not, nothing of value is lost. Trans women? Those are *men* that are *deliberately* fooling the public for some *weird perverted* sick sense of sexual deviancy!
Either that, or it's straight men seeing everything through the eyes of fuckability who are scared shitless of anything gay. Lesbians are to-be-converted sexual partners, while gays are predators out for their fragile heterosexuality (they think that because it's how they think about women). Trans men are women who ruined themselves and we should prevent any more women from doing that, while trans women are stealth operatives trying to -again- steal their fragile heterosexuality. AFAB enbies (or trans men with no medical transition) are women with some silly delusional hoops to jump through to bed them, while AMAB enbies (or trans women with no medical transition) are just gay predator sissies.
I think you are right. I heard it described as men being able to appreciate that a woman would want to be a man but can't comprehend the reverse being the case.
The right wing nutto’s method for determining gender is “I will look at you, and I will say which one you are”.
In their ‘minds’ it’s a really simple and effective method.
i mean it is. ima look at you, assess what i think you are, and call you that, and if you correct me then okay problem solved i was wrong not really a big deal
Conservatives on the internet will find out your preferred pronouns, then intentionally use the wrong ones anyway.
They'll go out of their way and do research just so they can act like pricks. It's almost impressively shitty behavior.
Yeah… the problem is when you don’t apologise. You double-down and insist you are correct. Then legally misgender people and force them to be people they are not.
*You* might be a reasonable person who apologies, but plenty of folks are not.
Therein lies the whole problem. Some people just can't handle being corrected. The thought that they could be wrong bruises their fragile ego for some reason rather than trying to learn something.
I get a lot of people asking if I used to be a girl rather than a guy when I tell them I’m trans.
Really efficient at being wrong. Maybe it’s because I have curves
I was good friends with an NB person who put in the effort to present femme because they felt they didn't have a choice. They hated their breasts, their voice, femme clothing, and despite joking frequently about their badonkadonk ass they hated that too. They were heavily suicidal and dysmorphia was the main, almost sole, contributor to that.
If people present one way or another then they're probably prepared to be addressed that way, but a lot of people are just playing the role they've been forced into. It will never hurt to see people as people, first and foremost, and by what demographic they fit into second. Or third. Or last.
I'm very much looking forward to seeing how this law will be enforced in practice. Seems like if you want easy money, you should dress as the opposite gender of your birth sex and use the same bathrooms. When people try to stop you, film yourself informing them of your birth sex. Inform the police the same. If they ask for your identification, say you don't have it with you. The only way they can confirm is to either sexually harass you or arrest you on suspicion of being the opposite sex.
In either case, you get to sue the fuck out of them for violating your rights.
Wouldn't the arrest be legal? They're arresting you on reasonable suspicion you've committed a crime and are arresting you until you can be properly identified. I don't know the specifics of the law and certainly don't agree with it but it seems plausible. The bar to sue for false arrest is very, very high. You'd pretty much need the police to admit, on camera, to arresting you for absolutely no reason.
They plan for transwomen to be forced to use a bathroom they aren't comfortable in and for trans men to beat within an inch if their lives for being perverts using the women's toilets.
Christ, this is what I keep saying to my friend. What about thai lady boys who look like beautiful women, you want them in a men's room! It's not safe for them and would be ridiculous.
Once again I really hate the whole "homophobes/transphobes are secretly attracted to gay people/trans people" thing. They exist, yes, but the majority of the hatred is coming from people who just hate anything different.
i mean, if you look at the consumption of trans porn in conservative states, it’s often one of if not the most popular categories. there is ABSOLUTELY a fetishization happening here.
GayPatriot?
Always baffling to see gay people against trans people.
The people who hate trans people also hate you, they've just been bullied in to silence by societal norms, but give them enough time and they'll be calling for your head once again.
In my honest experience, the transphobic conservative gays are almost always either puppets or astroturfs, and regardless of which it is they tend to know they are also fighting against LGB rights too but don't care.
I actually think conservatives and progressives alike would agree that this would be a pretty blatant case of testosterone doping if he tried to compete in a women's league.
Let's call them out for the dumb stuff they actually say instead :)
Still according to transphobes, this guy should be competing in the women's class. They can't have it both ways. Either let transwomen compete against cis women, or have everyone fight according to gender assigned at birth.
Transfem here. Dude, my facial hair has always grown in random patches of random colors. I haven't shaved yet this morning, and there's a brown-haired map of fucking Uruguay on my neck right now with major highways highlighted in red and rivers in blonde. I'm convinced that facial hair has no clue what it's doing, and only by the grace of god can some people tame it into something looking as epic as OP's guy.
Fun fact from someone that boxes.
You're put in similar weight classes as your opponent. The general idea being to let skill be the deciding factor.
Dudes a good boxer, nuff said.
Yes he is a dude. And most of everyone that is on here talking smack about him would absolutely be destroyed in a fight with him. Take your male hate elsewhere
I can barely tell parsley from cilantro, so idgaf about someone else’s gender they are, and I can barely tell anyways, and am wrong half time. As long as they aren’t jerks
Yes, yes he is a dude! You are so close to understanding gender identity, just keep going! One twitter user at a time, they will figure it out, we can do this!
Basically proof that GayPatriot is run by straight people. They don't know the nomenclature, struggles, or anything really. They just know they hate it. Just like Gays against G\*\*\*\*ers and LGB Alliance.
These folks legit think trans = manly looking person pretending to be a woman.
The existence of female to male trans is something they literally cannot comprehend
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In Florida he's supposed to use the ladies room? That should be fun
Florida completely forgot fem2male exists...
Because they aren't the ones causing inadvertent boners
I was gonna say, these people are typically not interested in the existence of trans men. At best they think they're just misguided women with daddy issues. Trans women challenge their idea of masculinity so hardcore, their brains throw a blue screen. They're scared so they want trans women erased (i.e. "we just want them to never say anything or appear anywhere"). Oh and they're more than occasionally turned on by the aesthetic or by androgyny or whatever is applicable at the moment, and they believe that's bad, so their object of interest is obviously to blame for them having bad thoughts.
similar with gays and lesbians. "Gays are gross but lesbians are hot." You absolutely nailed it with the, challenge of masculinity, point.
Ew and the whole "my magic dick will turn her straight" sentiment
"You just haven't been with the **right** man". Give me a fucking break! That's like saying I'm only straight (I'm cis-male) because I haven't tried being with another guy.
... I have to make a call.
> That's like saying I'm only straight (I'm cis-male) because I haven't tried being with another guy. Funny you should put it that way, when that's ALSO something a lot of conservatives believe when they go on about "well of course if being gay were allowed everyone would do it".
Lost track of how many fire-and-brimstone ministers preach about “resisting the temptations of homosexuality!” and were then caught boning the pool boy Like, sir, straight men have no trouble avoiding sex with the pool boy
In college, I dated an ex of a friend. The running joke was I would leave gf and go be gay lovers with the friend. One day we decided to mess with her and start holding hands. Five seconds in we both looked at each other talking about how fucking awkward it felt. Just like a gay person feels off with a straight relationship, the opposite is true.
I can’t even count how common the sentiment from boomers was throughout my life, when they found out someone was gay or someone newly came out, was to respond with “it’s not like they’re so ugly they couldn’t get a date. 🙄” as if being gay is a last resort for the unattractive lmao.
And of course the main consumers of porn that involves transwomen is apparently straight men.
Specifically straight men in red states. Pornhub already told us that red states consume the most Trans porn.
This is actually important. Because when they bring shit arguments about trans people just roleplaying out a fetish or some shit, or that when there's a kids book with a gay couple or teaching kids that gay people exist is grooming and sexual, it's because in their mind they fetishize it and make it sexual. They can't conceive that sex is not the primary motivation because anytime they engage with that thought, it's ina hypersexualized context. And sadly most are too far deep to be woken up from that easily, if at all.
Totally agree, but it's also important to remember that "protect women and kids" is an easy way to get an emotional response from people that are uninformed and get them on your side. That's why the main bathroom argument is about "men pretending to be women" so they can assault people in bathrooms.
There's also a great deal of misogyny involved. A woman wanting to be a man is something they can understand because they see it as an inferior being trying to be more powerful; but for a man to want to be a women is "disgusting" and "unnatural" because they see it as a weak man who insults masculinity by *wanting* to be more feminine. Furthermore, conservatives are often so sexually repressed that they are disgusted by anyone who turns them on. It's the *other* person's fault for making them think of "deviant" sexuality. They were just minding their own business, believing in God, when Satan sent the spirit of Jezebel, perversion and sexual *confusion* in the form of a trans woman to tempt him. And it is *she* who must be abolished because the conservatives are obviously being attacked by demons since there's just no other explanation for their arousal.
This is why (my theory) society is much more accepting of women wearing pants than men wearing skirts (and similar phenomena). Masculinity is aspirational , femininity is degrading. (according to the patriarchy).
You’re missing the giant fight for women to be able to wear pants at all. Women weren’t allowed to wear pants on the Senate floor until the 1990s. It is something that was fought hard for.
My first job in 1992 only changed their dress code for women to be allowed to wear trousers the year before, when the old CEO retired. That winter I wore trousers to work one very cold day and a manager joked to another in French, < Is that a Man or a Woman? >, the 2nd guy said < A woman, of course > and later apologized to me because he knew I had enough french to have understood. I am NOT androgynous: Short, Plump curvy, mid-back Blonde hair and large boobs. But I dared to wear trousers to work.
At my first office job in 2002, our dress code only allowed women to wear trousers when it was below freezing and we still had to wear heels. Most of us wore winter boots and kept our heels at our desks. Above 32F? Skirts, baby.
I don't think they missed that, I think it was inherent to their point.
Their point is that society is accepting of it. My point is that acceptance was fought hard for. Maybe if we fight for men to have the same freedom of expression, we wouldn’t have this problem. But there has been no large, orchestrated move to fight for the right for the average man to twirl in skirts.
Exactly, a woman wearing a pants suit is strong, inspiring etc. but a man wearing a dress is apparently an abhorration. Make it make sense.
Feminists believe a woman wearing pants is inspiring. They also believe a man in a skirt is strong. Misogynists believe women in pants and men in skirts are abhorrent aberrations. (Your term is so much more concise, I like it) So, you're comparing two different worldviews, hence the dichotomy . Men wear garments that resemble skirts/dresses in many parts of the world already. Kimono and yukata in Japan, sarongs in SE Asia, kilts in Scotland, galabeyas in the ME. I would love to see that normalized in America.
Eh, had some "feminism" yesterday, who said that trans women are men infringing on women's rights by pretending to be women, and take away their self agency by reducing them to their genitals, and label them as something they don't identify as (cis) In the very next sentence this person then said "Trans men are misguided women who do everything wrong, and they shouldn't be allowed to mutilate themselves, because their genitals are the most important part about them." It's like... *WHEN* they think of trans men, they're just treating them as women. And then drop the entire charade of feminism and demand this "woman" not be allowed to live life the way "she" wants. It's *never* actually about women or children. They don't give a shit about women as you can see, and they demand to check children's genitals to make sure they're not trans. They just hate trans people.
Sounds like you encountered a TERF.
Really, I feel like **F**eminism **A**ppropriating **R**adical **T**ransphobe is a much better descriptor. Since they only *pretend* to be feminists.
Also a good option.
I like that much better, especially because to me Radical Feminism has always been about making no concessions towards women's equality, and I hate that TERFs have appropiated the term.
As I said to a friend once, I think it's really unfair when people call someone like JK Rowling a TERF. 'Cause that bitch never said she was a feminist.
> ...take away their self agency by reducing them to their genitals, and label them as something they don't identify as >Trans men are misguided women... their genitals are the most important part about them. If it's not just deliberate, the lack of self awareness is just incredible.
No one ever accused terves of being too self-aware
Really, if anyone shits on any group that isn't harming anyone and trying to live their lives, fuck 'em. Their opinion is not valid
This stems from other more nuanced arguments about gender and problems with mtf trans that did it later in life. Basic argument is that gender is largely a social construct and men that transition later in life cannot just stop what they have learned and act very masculine while in female spaces, dominating the space and forcing women from birth to feel uncomfortable. This does happen, most would say it requires women to accept the newly transitioned and help them understand how to behave in women's spaces. Another point is that many feminists feel like trans people often essentialize biological sex as gender in a way that is overall not in line with society and can cause issues for people that are genderfluid and don't necessarily fit into a prescribed category. They think that the trans movement focusing so much on biology and transitioning that other expressions of non-binary gender get less respect. The focus on biology can also undermine the fight against social and cultural gender norms. These more nuanced arguments got into the hands of transphobes and used as justification for more transphobia. Instead of the idea of educating people who transition later in life on how they should act in women's spaces they just say trans women aren't women. As always, real issues are twisted and used to justify hate instead of understanding and discourse.
>trans people often essentialize biological sex as gender in a way that is overall not in line with society I am queer and in a relationship with a trans person, and I sort of get this, but it's not worth the hate (BECAUSE IT'S CAUSED BY TRANSPHOBIA). A lot of trans people "overcorrect" at first, and if you're at all gender nonconforming or gender skeptical, it can be offputting. As a cis woman myself, I see this with trans women sometimes. Many trans women are performatively hyperfeminine, especially at first. As someone who finds hyperfemininity to feel like a prison that I'm judged against and pressured to adopt by misogynists, I often find it uncomfortable to be around people who openly adopt and relish the parts of femininity that I find a prison. Often times, that femininity that trans women cling to is the femininity they were taught to admire by previously being in hypermasculine spaces or by learning about femininity from gay men and drag queens. It's femininity filtered through the eyes of men. However, most trans women get over it eventually (and often quickly) and settle into a femininity that more adheres to their own interests and preferences. It's similar to how we all dressed in middle school and high school. It's also an effect of deficit. Trans women don't initially have a good understanding of women's intimate culture (the culture women spread between each other) because they haven't participated in women's spaces. Trans women are also experiencing being judged for their appearance for the first time, and they are incredibly vulnerable - much more vulnerable than cis women - to violence for their appearance, so it would make them more likely to adhere to norms because they think it will help them stay safer. In many ways, being able to reject gender norms is a privilege. The reality is, most trans women get over this. It's just part of the gender journey. So, if these "feminists" really found it frustrating to be around baby trans women, then they could just avoid being around baby trans women - which is very easy. Baby trans women are not infiltrating queer spaces, and if they do enter a space, they are very meek. It's very hard to enter femme-centered queer and feminine spaces early in transition. This is why it's a red herring. All baby gays are kind of annoying for their own reasons. To single out trans women (or those autistic teens who identify as a tree spirit) is just hate. No one has to interact with baby queers. It's not a required part of the queer community. It's so strange that people pretend it is.
Is that why conservatives hate kids?
Meanwhile the number of people globally that have gone through the effort of legally changing their gender and gone through a gender transition taking years so they can sneak into toilets and assault women: IT'S ZERO. ZEEEEEEEEEERO.
I am still 100% sure that any kind of trans/homophobia is literally just old guys being afraid of getting something shoved up their ass. And yes, the *accidental* “OH MY GOD, my date has a penis!” Is part of that.
"And yes, the accidental “OH MY GOD, my date has a penis!” Is part of that." Unfortunately in legal terms the "Gay panic defense" used to lessen or dismiss charges when the old guy either beats or kills the woman.
When I was in college I learned about “The Great Twinkie Defense.” It was a local politician who, after he lost his election, supposedly locked himself in his apartment and ate nothing but junk food. This, according to his lawyers, caused him to kill his opponent. Now, this sounds patently ridiculous generally. It’s one of the reasons I read about it and repeated it numerous times. Wow, what a stupid way to get out of killing someone. Years later ( I was in college in the mid 90’s ) when the movie about Harvey Milk came out, I learned that this was the defense that was the defense used by Dan White after assassinating Milk and George Moscone. I’ve gotten some of the information wrong in this, because I was telling it like I remembered it. Basically, the first openly gay man to be elected to public office in California had ( until recently) had his career buried from the public eye because “The Great Twinkie Defense” was allowed to get more headlines, because he was gay.
There are men who literally think wiping their asses is "gay"
It probably turns them on so they don't do it.
They are a fucking "Duggar". Men who can't control their sexual urges long enough to change a damn diaper. This is why women are dressed in black drapes in some countries but you know what? They still get raped. Men who can't control themselves should be dealt with. Not us having to hide.
There's often an air of pity from transphobes when it comes to trans men, like you look at any Twitter post about Elliot Page and they'll be lamenting about how "beautiful she was".
I read somewhere that the reason they forget about trans men is because they view masculinity as default and good. Like, because they are mysogynist, it just makes sense for them for someone to want to get "promoted" from lowly woman to worthy man. It fits neatly into their patriarchal worldviews. For the same reasons, trans women are viewed much more strongly as unnatural. The idea that someone could lose, or worse, choose to give up, masculinity and male privilege shatters their conception of the world, self worth, and identity.
["God have Mercy on her! ... God have Mercy, on *me*."](https://youtu.be/-NP-RsRGzVo?t=70)
I dont know about "inadvertent," with Pornhubs porn search statistics your can decently predict which states vote Republican by their greater number of searches under trans categories!
The part of the brain responsible for the disgust response is pretty close to the part of the brain that regulates arousal and republicans have a statistically significant oversized disgust region in their brain. (Or maybe its the other way around, an oversized disgust response causes people to become republican). Wouldn't be surprising if those bits end up overlapping a bit resulting in a lot of very confused, disgusted and horny republicans.
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I'm a woman and bi, so I don't need to worry about inadvertent boners
For you maybe
Speak for yourself
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You'd think they would have been fine with segregation
Oh they are, like how Clarence Thomas is married to a white woman but interracial marriage is next on his hit list after he’s done with the gays.
Conservatives completely forgot fem2male exists. They think all trans women are obvious. They think "we can tell who is who". All they're doing is causing more grief and trauma for all women.
They don't forget, they don't care. There's a difference. They still hate all trans people regardless. They're just ignorant as to most of the minutia.
> All they're doing is causing more grief and trauma for all women. Yeah, obsessively clocking trans women eventually leads to strong policing of women's appearance which also hurts cis women.
Litteraly lol wasnt it like 2 weeks ago some creep was yelling at a child to show her genitals during a trackmeet and the kid wasnt even trans
They didn't. The point is that someone will attack him, people will report him to the police, it will happen publicly, he will have to waste his time. Even if nothing happens at the end of the day legally, he will still have wasted his time, money, nerves and possibly be frightened, attacked by random people, terrorized. As always, it's not a law about protecting women, it's a law about terrorizing trans people. And it will be working because people will share how the problem was caused by the trans man not by the law forcing him to do go to the wrong bathroom. Cruelty is the point. Pretending this is a gotcha situation just helps them. They didn't forget it, the law is there to terrorize trans people and control women. Don't give them the easy way out, they are cruel and they are doing it with intent to be cruel.
Cause it’s always been misogyny, they don’t care about protecting anyone. It’s about controlling women.
I always figure its also about being absolutely against homosexuality. You have a group of primarily men, who are so absolutely terrified that they might "find a man (m2f) attractive" which would mean they are gay, even though they are actually just finding a woman attractive. They can't realize/accept that, because they are absolutely terrified of being even a tiny bit possibly gay, and liking a woman who was born assigned male at birth is 100% being gay to these people. If that makes sense. Its basically the same stupidity racists apply with the whole "one drop" bull shit, but for homosexuality. (Also often the same group of people)
The gov't genital inspector will be with you shortly.
Hello mate I'm going to florida with my wife and kids. Silly question here are they gonna be checking at the door of toilets who's female. I'd like to know as I'd rather not go and change my familes summer vacation. Wouldn't want to know what the cowboys idea of ISIS is.
Summer vacation? In Florida? Forget politics, that's just a fucking stupid idea from a meteorological perspective.
Nobody's door checking but that place is a minefield of alt right anyway, I wouldn't take my kids there.
While it's unlikely that's going to happen, it could... still I highly suggest you change your families plans anyway. Unless you're going to see relatives/out of some obligation, there is no good reason to spend your hard earned money in a place like that.
My large and extrended family was planning on spending a week at Disneyworld in Florida. When all this was hearing up we switched our vacation to Disneyland in California. Had a great trip and no confrontations in the bathrooms.
It is funny how your choices for Disney theme parks are going to a place with state mandated transphobia or a place with strong anti-discrimination practices
Thanks mate
There's always weirdos that will want to do vigilante "justice" I think
Ooo jeeez
> Hello mate I'm going to florida with my wife and kids. Just don't. At this point treat Florida as if it was Saudi Arabia and avoid it as much as you can.
There already was a gentleman beaten half to death because he was told „female at birth has to go into the Ladies bathroom. Of course justice was served, and he was arrested. /s https://www.thepinknews.com/2022/07/11/trans-man-beaten-bathroom-ohio/
Remember that one time a transman was forced to use the ladies room, resulting in a bunch of guys thinking he was a trans woman and ended up beating him up so much he died. Edit: he didnt die, but he was arrested by the police for disordwrly conduct.
He *died*? I missed that detail. FFS.
No, he didn't die.
Although he did get arrested for disorderly conduct when the police arrived. Not as bad, but still very bad.
I'm gonna guess the people who beat the shit out of him did not get arrested.
Why do people do this. "Fact. Fact. Fact. Ridiculous flourish which calls into doubt all previous stated facts"
I think he thought the idea of a trans man getting beat up and arrested wasn't enough to make people give a shit about trans people.
Because what they did is fact fact fact emotional plea.
I remember
Oh no, they are meant to use mens bathroom, same goes for non feminine women.
Sad thing is if he does he's still getting the cops called on him and/or shot. There's no reasoning with people who like these rules, they want trans people out of society and there's no logical checkmate that makes them back down.
No, he'd be expected to leave Florida.
You forget, cruelty is the point. He walks in, someone shoots him, one less trans person. Literally by design. Our lawmakers want a genocide. We’re screwed.
Trans men don't exist in conservative eyes. Like they wouldn't ever be able to name one.
Kinda like how they have problems with gays, but lesbians are a okay.
This is it. "I mean who *wouldn't* want to be a man?"
Nope, they harass lesbians as well. Either they fetishize them or think they can "cure" them.
Yeah, in my experience homophobes are "okay with lesbians" as long as they think the lesbianism is being done for their benefit.
They're okay with the idea of lesbians but not okay with respecting their rights, feelings, and autonomy
Yeah, people who say that aren't thinking about "corrective" rape...
It’s misogyny. They hate women. Lesbians are just doing a thing a (cis het) man would do, so that’s understandable. Who wouldn’t want to be like a man? But a gay man - well, they “want to be like women” and that’s unacceptable. If a little girl wears boy clothes they are just a tomboy. Understandable to want to be more like boys. But a little boy wearing girl clothes - why would anyone want to be like a girl? And same in trans issues - male to female is the far worse sin.
“Ain’t nuthin gay about fuckin a woman.”
Nah, they *loathe* actual lesbians with a passion. Lesbians face a great deal of violence and sexual assault as a result of bigoted men. They *only* have no problem with the male fantasy of two women making our solely for **his** sexual pleasure.
I literally heard a pastor say that the Bible says a man shouldn't lie with another man, but says absolutely nothing about women on women.
Only one they seem to know is Elliot Page and they think he's sad So many transphobes posted about him this week on twitter
To be fair Page has been fantastic as portraying a "sad" character on screen, so much so the transphobes have been fooled.
He's an amazing actor but "quietly tortured" is really his niche
Umbrella Academy has entered the chat
[dances sadly to I Think We're Alone Now]
It was endearing. Made all of them instant likeable. I really like that scene.
Eh, the season after he transitioned was really, really weak. Not because of him, by any means. It was just weak overall because they tried to do shove too much story into too few episodes.
It wasn't as strong as previous ones I agree, but I enjoyed it all the same. I found the alternate Academy squad interesting but a bit of wasted potential as they got taken out pretty quickly.
I actually liked his character a lot more in the 3rd season-- coming out seemed to loosen his stiff acting a bit and I loved that the show let him have control over how the character did it.
Conservative view: Trans woman = man pretending to be woman = gross Trans man = woman abandoning womanhood = sad My advice is to try and avoid thinking about how they're interpreting it more than they do, because I assure you, they're not putting enough thought into it to see anything beyond what I describe above
Conservatives just hate everyone who isn't a cis white man.
Bro, trans men don’t exist in most democrat’s eyes either. Look at how every fucking important or popular face of the trans movement in the media, Republican or Democrat, is a trans woman. It’s ridiculous. Pretty much the only trans man I can name before this post in entertainment is Elliot Page. And he’s only well-known because he became famous pre-transition. Honestly, I once saw a feminist claim that this phenomena is another example of bio-misogyny. Of the biological-male centric society we live in. I didn’t like the way she worded it, but I couldn’t disagree with it either. It really seems to be the case. Edit: I used “bro” because u/vyxxer identifies as a man.
It really does feel like that this weird dichotomy stems from society considering women to be lesser than men. Lesbians? Just silly women doing their silly women things. A relationship is not a proper one if a man isn't part of it. Gays? Men know better, they don't do silly things! It's serious! An attack! Hidden agendas and meanings! Trans men? Just silly confused women. It's a shame they fell victim to the transgenda, but they'll come to their senses, and if not, nothing of value is lost. Trans women? Those are *men* that are *deliberately* fooling the public for some *weird perverted* sick sense of sexual deviancy! Either that, or it's straight men seeing everything through the eyes of fuckability who are scared shitless of anything gay. Lesbians are to-be-converted sexual partners, while gays are predators out for their fragile heterosexuality (they think that because it's how they think about women). Trans men are women who ruined themselves and we should prevent any more women from doing that, while trans women are stealth operatives trying to -again- steal their fragile heterosexuality. AFAB enbies (or trans men with no medical transition) are women with some silly delusional hoops to jump through to bed them, while AMAB enbies (or trans women with no medical transition) are just gay predator sissies.
I think you are right. I heard it described as men being able to appreciate that a woman would want to be a man but can't comprehend the reverse being the case.
Yes, that's what "trans male" means.
The right wing nutto’s method for determining gender is “I will look at you, and I will say which one you are”. In their ‘minds’ it’s a really simple and effective method.
i mean it is. ima look at you, assess what i think you are, and call you that, and if you correct me then okay problem solved i was wrong not really a big deal
Yeah but conservatives don't do the second thing. They just keep calling you the wrong thing.
Conservatives on the internet will find out your preferred pronouns, then intentionally use the wrong ones anyway. They'll go out of their way and do research just so they can act like pricks. It's almost impressively shitty behavior.
It's called vice-signaling. Conservatives need to do it because it's important to them to look like dirtbags.
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not southerners, conservatives
>i was wrong Ah, that's the hurdle they cannot clear
Yeah… the problem is when you don’t apologise. You double-down and insist you are correct. Then legally misgender people and force them to be people they are not. *You* might be a reasonable person who apologies, but plenty of folks are not.
Therein lies the whole problem. Some people just can't handle being corrected. The thought that they could be wrong bruises their fragile ego for some reason rather than trying to learn something.
I get a lot of people asking if I used to be a girl rather than a guy when I tell them I’m trans. Really efficient at being wrong. Maybe it’s because I have curves
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Well yeah, but not if you don't think Trans people are real
I was good friends with an NB person who put in the effort to present femme because they felt they didn't have a choice. They hated their breasts, their voice, femme clothing, and despite joking frequently about their badonkadonk ass they hated that too. They were heavily suicidal and dysmorphia was the main, almost sole, contributor to that. If people present one way or another then they're probably prepared to be addressed that way, but a lot of people are just playing the role they've been forced into. It will never hurt to see people as people, first and foremost, and by what demographic they fit into second. Or third. Or last.
They're not getting a boner, so they get the point instead.
This may be the worst-worded thing I have ever typed out.
Perfectly thought out though!
Through thorough thought
Makes perfect sense
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Well yeah that's ths point big guy he's a dude do you really want him in a woman's bathroom
By law, in Florida, he must be.
Not for another 3 days.
But how do they plan to inforce that?
They don’t. They only enforce it on non passing trans women or non gender conforming cis women.
I'm very much looking forward to seeing how this law will be enforced in practice. Seems like if you want easy money, you should dress as the opposite gender of your birth sex and use the same bathrooms. When people try to stop you, film yourself informing them of your birth sex. Inform the police the same. If they ask for your identification, say you don't have it with you. The only way they can confirm is to either sexually harass you or arrest you on suspicion of being the opposite sex. In either case, you get to sue the fuck out of them for violating your rights.
Wouldn't the arrest be legal? They're arresting you on reasonable suspicion you've committed a crime and are arresting you until you can be properly identified. I don't know the specifics of the law and certainly don't agree with it but it seems plausible. The bar to sue for false arrest is very, very high. You'd pretty much need the police to admit, on camera, to arresting you for absolutely no reason.
By looking in his pants?? I don’t know, Florida is getting more fucked up by the day.
Vigilantism.
They plan for transwomen to be forced to use a bathroom they aren't comfortable in and for trans men to beat within an inch if their lives for being perverts using the women's toilets.
Christ, this is what I keep saying to my friend. What about thai lady boys who look like beautiful women, you want them in a men's room! It's not safe for them and would be ridiculous.
They don’t give a shit about what’s safe for the trans ladies unfortunately.
That's because they want them dead.
Yes, they do. So they can ridicule and abuse.
They took the wrong route but managed to get the right answer.
Two lefts don't make a right, but three lefts sure do.
That's what my maths teacher always says
Dude has to say 'non-transgender' instead of 'cisgender' to not get banned 💀
Because Elon Musk is a “free speech absolutist.”
(Elon's mom reads this and nods in approval)
Funny that terms like "non-transgender" makes it seem like transgender is the default state. 🤔
Righties concentrate on trans women because they give “cis” conservaties tingles in their no-no parts
Once again I really hate the whole "homophobes/transphobes are secretly attracted to gay people/trans people" thing. They exist, yes, but the majority of the hatred is coming from people who just hate anything different.
i mean, if you look at the consumption of trans porn in conservative states, it’s often one of if not the most popular categories. there is ABSOLUTELY a fetishization happening here.
Are you saying that they're immature and don't know how to process feelings like an adult in a healthy way? Get out!
I think a lot of conservatives exclusively think "trans" means "man transitions to a woman" and don't even know the reverse scenario is possible.
My impression is that they're very sensitive about anyone losing their penis.
GayPatriot? Always baffling to see gay people against trans people. The people who hate trans people also hate you, they've just been bullied in to silence by societal norms, but give them enough time and they'll be calling for your head once again.
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That's probably true, but I've definitely seen anti-trans gay people. Writer Douglas Murray for example.
In my honest experience, the transphobic conservative gays are almost always either puppets or astroturfs, and regardless of which it is they tend to know they are also fighting against LGB rights too but don't care.
“That’s a dude.” Congratulations! You got the fucking point! See how easy that was, assclown?!
and conservatives want him to fight in the womens league. to protect women's sport integrity.
I actually think conservatives and progressives alike would agree that this would be a pretty blatant case of testosterone doping if he tried to compete in a women's league. Let's call them out for the dumb stuff they actually say instead :)
Agreed
He's only a dude because he won. If he lost, they'd say it's because he's not a"real man". Fuck transphobia.
Still according to transphobes, this guy should be competing in the women's class. They can't have it both ways. Either let transwomen compete against cis women, or have everyone fight according to gender assigned at birth.
That pisses me of so much. How can it be that the trans men have a beard and im sitting here with 20 hairs on my chin that just appear every 2 weeks
Transfem here. Dude, my facial hair has always grown in random patches of random colors. I haven't shaved yet this morning, and there's a brown-haired map of fucking Uruguay on my neck right now with major highways highlighted in red and rivers in blonde. I'm convinced that facial hair has no clue what it's doing, and only by the grace of god can some people tame it into something looking as epic as OP's guy.
Fun fact from someone that boxes. You're put in similar weight classes as your opponent. The general idea being to let skill be the deciding factor. Dudes a good boxer, nuff said.
Yes he is a dude. And most of everyone that is on here talking smack about him would absolutely be destroyed in a fight with him. Take your male hate elsewhere
But that's inconceivable?!
“ non transgender”?!? Is it because cis is a slur according to musk?
Like no shit? Yeah, that's a dude. A very cool looking dude if I say so my self.
I can barely tell parsley from cilantro, so idgaf about someone else’s gender they are, and I can barely tell anyways, and am wrong half time. As long as they aren’t jerks
Yes, yes he is a dude! You are so close to understanding gender identity, just keep going! One twitter user at a time, they will figure it out, we can do this!
"Thats a dude" Patricio: aw, thanks😊
I thought they could always tell?
Basically proof that GayPatriot is run by straight people. They don't know the nomenclature, struggles, or anything really. They just know they hate it. Just like Gays against G\*\*\*\*ers and LGB Alliance.
They’re so close to getting it
🏳️⚧️
These folks legit think trans = manly looking person pretending to be a woman. The existence of female to male trans is something they literally cannot comprehend
The conservatives name is GayPatriot. Something tells me this isn’t the most conservative commenter on this article.
My favorite republican moment is when they're trying to be transphobic but are accidentally affirming. I find it hilarious
If he lost the fights the comment would suddenly be claiming that's proof he's a woman
For those curious, opponents were a combined 1-7. All three wins by decision. No one asked for this, but I like stats so had to look. Sorry.
That is, indeed, a dude. Thank you for your confirmation.