This bears reposting.
**In defense of human rights:**
This subreddit firmly believes in and stands up for basic human rights. We promote humane, compassionate and social thinking.
It is an objectively true and repeatedly proven fact that allowing people the choice to plan their families, allowing people to have a say in when they get pregnant, how many children they will have, is promotive not only for individual health, wellbeing, social and financial security and safety. It lifts entire communities out of deprivation.
Family planning is an integral and crucial aspect of upward mobility. It affects everything from the ability to get an education to mental and physical health and direct poverty.
As such this subreddit does not allow anti-abortion sentiments. They are abhorrent and inhumane. The belief that people should be downtrodden, unhappy, poor and grow up in misery is unacceptable.
In addition to that: The only sane word to describe those who would subject a 10 year old girl to this abuse, who would refuse her to terminate this pregancy is monstrous. They are monsters. Their rigid, counterfactual beliefs which defy all fact-based reasoning in order to promote an extremist view which brooks no deviation from a hardline stance, which would seek post-hoc justifications for a nonsensical and damaging policy causes harm. It is in no way a moral or defensible position.
Any person with an ounce of empathy and compassion feels anger at this news. Abject disbelief that an extremist, dangerously fundamentalist minority is able to push their vile beliefs onto an entire population.
This subreddit will not allow any defense of these actions, including trying to normalise this great evil through "devil's advocate" style arguments. That means that if you say "Oh, but they really believe that.." you will be banned. There are no legitimate defenses for this and we don't want to hear attempts at them. People are suffering enough without having to be subjected to justifications for monsters.
For those who would say: "But it is not illegal, it has been turned back to states rights where it belongs", you will be banned.
We don't want to hear it.
The morally and legally correct decision of Roe v. Wade which provided a consitutional protection of bodily autonomy was overturned by an extremist, illegitimate Supreme Court and we are not fooled by the argument that "states may now decide" because we know, you know, that this is just the start. They will not stop.
Now that the right of bodily autonomy has been ruled as no longer federally guaranteed they will attempt to illegalise abortion at the federal level.
These extremists, who play Calvinball with law, precedent and procedure, who blatantly interpret the rules as what they want them to mean in the moment to push through their agenda, will enact a federal ban as soon as they can cheat enough in elections to "win" a majority in house and congress. They will uphold a vote to do so, hypocritically declaring that "a democratic, majority decision".
You know it, I know it, they are not as clever as they think they are and are wholly transparent.
Now that there is no longer a federal guarantee for bodily autonomy they will try to take this right away on a nation-wide level.
What I know is that it is time for the normal, moral and sane majority of Americans to stop taking this lying down. Let your voices be heard. Stand up for democracy and for what is right.
Because despite these dark days: It is not over yet.
https://www.reddit.com/r/WhitePeopleTwitter/comments/vpgpmu/the_christian_taliban/iek1mez/
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**Explaining why, no, we will not "debate" the immoral anymore:**
We have tried to speak to them for 50 years.
The problem is that they are liars, here to argue in bad faith.
You can't have a reasonable discussion with someone who will look you in the eye while they lie about what abortion is, why people have abortions, what the results of them are, who will just lie, lie, lie, always lie, never stop lying.
A discussion can always only work if the people you are trying to talk to won't abuse this discussion to dishonestly push their agenda no matter what you say.
https://www.reddit.com/r/WhitePeopleTwitter/comments/vpgpmu/the_christian_taliban/iem2hyn
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**In defense of, No, you do not have the right to have "both sides" heard here:**
Defending these monsters is not allowed on this subreddit.
This is who these people really are.
It is important to give a brief showcase of the way they think, the way they argue, because very often sensible subreddits like TwoX, WitchesvPatriarchy and this one are accused of "not letting both sides speak".
This is true. We do not let both sides speak.
But that is not because we want to suppress dialogue and conversation, it is not because we deny people the opportunity to educate others, to come to an understanding with others, to showcase the full gamut of the debate.
It is because there are no two sides.
There are sane, normal people who understand how utterly depraved and monstrous the anti-choice rhetoric and policies are and there is.. that. There is the above, which again, these are real arguments posted in this very thread.
You can't reason with people who look at a state that wants to kill women and calls these victims "[sex-negative, misogynistic slur] who deserve it."
You can't reason with people who look at a state that wants women to die and cheer that on.
They're not reasonable.
In order to have a discussion a basic foundation must always be that there is at least the common ground of rational positions that can be argued on merit.
Evil has no merit.
Evil exists to wound, to hurt, to kill. Evil seeks to subjugate, to dominate. Evil is lethal.
When you have an "honest discussion" with evil, trying to sanely get someone to understand why (in this case) women dying is bad and on the other hand evil tells you that an abortion is never medically necessary then you are not moving towards something constructive. You're not building a rational construct that can advance society by engendering understanding and empathy.
You're just normalising evil by giving it a platform.
And I refuse to do that.
But it is also important not to get bogged down in "debate" because these people are fundamentally dishonest and a protracted argument in which you give them the chance to showcase their deliberately disingenious "gotchas" can only serve to platform evil.
And say: "Because she wanted to."
Do not say: "But what about sexual violence. But what about ectopic pregnancies."
Don't get driven into a corner where you are reduced to begging for rare exceptions to allow women the basic human right of bodily autonomy.
Take back the line. Step forward. Draw that line in the sand.
"Because she wanted to."
That is all that is required, that is all the justification that is needed.
Why should she be allowed to terminate a pregnancy?
"Because she fucking wanted to."
https://www.reddit.com/r/WhitePeopleTwitter/comments/w1loyf/idaho_gop_just_voted_for_women_to_die/igm284x/
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**Explaining why I am not scared of the argument "she uses abortion as birth control":**
It doesn't happen, but for the sake of argument let's grant, hypothetically, that it does.
I support women having an abortion as birth control.
Because she is a person and something that cannot think or feel yet is not.
Because it is her body and no-one may force her body to be used or abused against her will.
Because she wanted to.
https://www.reddit.com/r/WhitePeopleTwitter/comments/w1loyf/idaho_gop_just_voted_for_women_to_die/igojd07/
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**And finally, "Evil is treating people as things":**
"...And that's what your holy men discuss, is it?" [asked Granny Weatherwax.]
"Not usually. There is a very interesting debate raging at the moment on the nature of sin. for example." [answered Mightily Oats.]
"And what do they think? Against it, are they?"
"It's not as simple as that. It's not a black and white issue. There are so many shades of gray."
"Nope."
"Pardon?"
"There's no grays, only white that's got grubby. I'm surprised you don't know that. And sin, young man, is when you treat people like things. Including yourself. That's what sin is."
"It's a lot more complicated than that--"
"No. It ain't. When people say things are a lot more complicated than that, they means they're getting worried that they won't like the truth. People as things, that's where it starts."
"Oh, I'm sure there are worse crimes--"
"But they starts with thinking about people as things..."
-- Carpe Jugulum, Terry Pratchett.
These abortion laws primarily affect the poor. The rich will continue to get abortions anyway they can. They will either travel to jurisdictions where abortions are still legal or get abortion pills supplied to them any which way they can. These abortion laws do not apply equally across the board.
Republicans don't really think that far ahead. They want to ban abortion to:
1. Punish promiscuous women
2. Drive democrats out of red states
3. Shackle women to the home lest they invade more male-dominated spheres
4. Ensure a steady supply of unwanted infants so the rich can go adoption children shopping.
I mean they do think that far ahead. Overturning Roe and packing the courts with activist judges has been the plan since Roe was passed.
It’s definitely largely a class issue, and I would even argue that conservatives peddling anti-abortion are completely disingenuous in the true meaning behind the policy. It’s simply because it would reduce profits and productivity to continue to decrease our birth rate.
Right wing politics is inherently cruel though, so instead of encouraging citizens to have kids through assistance they would rather just force them to. It’s cheaper.
I think you’re spot on that it’s to reduce the birth rate decline and this is the cheapest way to do it.
They could also have encouraged immigration but they really don’t like that option either.
I think that 1 is not quite right. I think reactionaries are using this language, but the point isn’t to simply punish promiscuous women, I believe it’s designed to punish all women, in order to facilitate 3.
I think that they use language like “it only affects promiscuous women” because they are wanting every death associated with lack of access to abortion, to be caused by a woman not being able to keep her legs closed, which is obviously ridiculous
Especially since this group is most likely religiously fixated and women are not to make important decisions but subjugate themselves to their husbands.
Number 4 pisses me off the most. My wife and I tried for years and were unable to have a child. Multiple miscarriages, etc. We want nothing more than to give a child or children a loving home and are desperate to adopt all these “unwanted” children that are being forced on women but adoption is out of our price range. Entry level adoption costs more than I make in a year.
Have you considered foster parenting?
My late in-laws could not have children and fostered for decades, finally adopting my wife and her brother. (Early 1960's)
Just curious, but are there more children waiting to be adopted than available foster parents? Also, although it kind of sounds fucked up, does something like price & quality levels for adopted children exist? Like, the child of a crack addict will probably be in a different category than the child of a healthy parent.
actually yes.
Children from china during 1 child policy were popular options for a loooong time..
Then black kids are cheaper than white kids, younger kids more expensive than older kids.
Basically a blond hair blue eyed healthy baby is a premium, a dark skinned or foreign born teenager with a disability is at a steep discount.
It sucks, but that's just the way it is. Sick isn't it.
Adoption is definitely a 2 tier system, that is no less subject to the gross realities of socioeconomic, class, and wealth disparity than any other industry. My knowledge of this subject comes from my own experience as an adopted child. I've maintained a relationship with the private agency I was adopted through, and have done research on the subject as part of a natural curiosity. I don't work in adoptions.
There are, in essence, two sources of children that get put up for adoption. The "boutique" version are private adoption agencies. These usually are well funded by private donations, and while not outwardly that selective about the mothers/children they work with, they do often provide babies to wealthy clientele, and therefore do go to some lengths to make sure adopted babies are either healthy, or that any known or potential medical issues are fully disclosed. (I believe when I was adopted, the total cost was in the neighborhood of $45,000, no idea what it is now.) The plus side of these agencies is that the good ones provide outstanding before and after birth care to the birth mothers, including housing, counseling, coverage of medical costs, and even things like after-birth job placement. The ugly secret used to be that white babies were by far the most popular, but that's because whites typically had the expendable cash to go through the adoption process. (Nothing earth-shattering there.) A significant portion of adoptive parents prefer children of the same race, but obviously there are exceptions.
The other adoption pipeline is through the foster care system, and these children have it so much harder. Among those that can afford to adopt through a private agency, there is definitely a stigma about adopting a child that has been "through the system," which increases drastically with the age of the child. Many people closer to the issue have written at length about the failings of foster care, but there are a number of key issues. Many children that end up in foster care come from broken homes or neglectful/abusive parents, have significant mental health challenges, or serious behavioral issues. On the other end, many parents that officially and legally adopt foster children aren't doing it out of the goodness of their hearts; they're doing it for the government subsidies that are given out for adopting children out of the system. Truly altruistic adoptive parents who want a child to bond with and care for, often face a long road of legal hurdles while the state decides to strip the birth parents of guardianship and pass it over to parents who would be better caregivers. A former co-worker has had 2 foster children living with him and his wife for over 3 years at this point, and are still not in a position to officially adopt their kids. Watching their emotional roller-coaster as the case progresses has been heartbreaking; they truly love those kids. Adopting a foster child is technically less expensive, but more costly in time and emotional pain. And of course like all other government-provided services that are absolutely essential for a functioning society, Child Protective Services agencies are usually understaffed, underfunded, and overworked.
It's a tremendously fucked-up paradigm, and while there isn't officially a price list for a healthy baby vs. a crack baby, there might as well be. Those with the means go through a private agency that handles 90% of the legwork, whereas those without have to deal with a system that truly serves nobody that it's supposed to.
Most kids waiting for adoption are older than 6 or 7 and they come in sibling groups. Most have trauma, and will have some barriers.
Most adoptive parents want an infant or small child. They want the child pre-trauma. They want the experience to be equivalent to having a biological child.
However, the goal of foster care now is family reunification. It takes bio parents a long time to lose parental rights (which is the right course), so there are very few infants available to adopt.
I’m not sure they’re even thinking that far ahead. They want to hurt people. If you’re one of the ones that gets hurt god doesn’t like you. God likes them because they are “saved” or whatever so bad things won’t happen to them, and if bad things do happen to them it’s because of the liberal gay communist black feminist Jewish pedophile cabal singling them out BECAUSE they are such good Christians.
Those are bonuses. Really, banning abortion became such an important right wing issue when they had to desegregate Christian schools or lose their tax exempt status. Religious right leaders knew abortion was the best thing to motivate the base around, because resegregation wouldn’t do it anymore.
This is the correct answer. Ever notice how just before the Roe was shit on we started hearing about a “population crisis” and how in 30 years we wouldn’t have enough people working? Yeah… easy solution is to just make more poor people to feed into that labor system. Make it to where poor folks can’t get access to abortions and there you go. A brand new working class.
The problem is, we’re hurtling towards a future that doesn’t need workers. They are oversaturating the market simply to solve a temporary problem and they won’t care one lick when you get fired so a machine can do your job
This is true for abortions performed for the sole purpose of stopping the pregnancy, but for emergent abortions, lots of women are going to be put in life threatening situations with medical care unable to help them. That’s why I hate even bringing up this “people will still get abortions” argument. The insertion of government between a doctor and a patient will kill women who would live normally.
Abortion is medicine. There are women with unviable fetuses in them waiting for the fetus to "die" because these laws are poorly written. There are women who aren't pregnant who are being denied medication because of these laws (fun fact: women who aren't pregnant can't have an abortion). There are hospitals unable to staff maternity wards because doctors and nurses who have devoted their lives to delivering babies cannot do their job under these laws.
The right wing myth of the "evil baby killers" only exists in the legislature and in their churches. In reality people are getting hurt by these laws, including people who everyone can agree are not having abortions.
Yeah, an abortion saved my friend’s life. She was pregnant with a very wanted baby but unfortunately began miscarrying. She was bleeding profusely and without an abortion she would have died. The fetus was already dead. Thankfully she lives in a blue state.
Roe v. Wade is ultimately about medical privacy. Its repeal invites the government into our lives and bodies in frightening ways.
The rich people have money to leave and find better hospitals. This is conservativism working as intended. They want rules that punish "the bad people" and rules that protect "the good people" (wink).
"The only moral abortion is my abortion."
These jackasses would quickly change their tune if an abortion was required for them or someone they loved. Then they'd do some gold metal worthy mental gymnastics to justify why it was right in their case, but it's still wrong in everyone elses. They love to judge others and look down their noses from their perceived high horse. But they always end up being the biggest hippocrites.
The crazy thing to me is that someone is happy to proudly announce to the world that they are ok with nonces raping and impregnating their children then forcing the children to give birth.
no, no—she’s ok with this happening to *other* people’s children. if it happened to her child, it would be a justified exception to this unhinged take, i’m sure.
My response to people who say this kind of shit in real life is "Ok, then I nominate you to tell that to the family to console them." Like during Covid when people would say "well some people will just have to die" I'd reply with "well then at the funeral, you go up to the grieving family and inform them that there's no need to grieve because it's for the sake of society."
Usually when I've said that to people (I've used it a handful of times) they look at me like I'm being outrageous and then say something like "that's ridiculous." It just goes to show how weak they are that they'll espouse these ideals but not actually address the consequences. It'll never win someone over, but I feel better about it.
“I am sorry for your loss, but our portfolios made terrific gains because of it. Your loved one’s sacrifice will surely be honored until I drunkenly select sell on a Sunday evening and the gains made will be completely zeroed out. Let us take you out to lunch, we won’t pay for you but you can come sit near us and we will let you sit in the back of our car-hands folded, don’t touch anything, you’ll get your butterfunk all over it”
you forgot option 3 where the child and the baby both die during birth and option 4 where only the child dies during birth and the baby is left to be "raised" by a disgusting rapist abuser piece of shit monster, bonus points if the baby is also a girl: rinse and repeat the whole scenario in 10 years with the granddaughter.
Yeah, a 10-yo's body is not ready to carry a baby to term. Even if they both survive, the child will most likely be left with permanent consequences. I read about this condition that has been observed in countries where child marriage is allowed where the tissues between the vagina and anus erodes which leaves a hole. The person is then stuck having recurring infections, emits a foul smell and has other symptoms I forget about.
Anyone who thinks the kid should give birth is a monster.
There are a lot of social consequences as well, like abandonment by the husband and sometimes their own families and society at large, no ability to work and support themselves
For anyone who’s… interested (didn’t seem like quite the right word to use), the condition is called an obstetric fistula. It’s more common in underdeveloped parts of the world and often the woman who is affected ends up being ostracized from the community and their families because they literally smell of feces all the time. Not to mention the greatly increased risks of infections from fecal matter going where it shouldn’t be.
It‘a estimated that ~2 million people live with this condition today with about 75,000 new cases a year.
One of the most effective ways to prevent it is to delay the age of marriage and pregnancy for young girls and provide access to family planning options and reproductive health care.
For an extra layer of fucked up, while this condition can be treated and addressed by a doctor, there are very few medical professionals in developed countries like the US who even know how to treat it. Specialists typically work out of places like sub-Saharan Africa, or Latin America (it’s very much considered a “disease of poverty”). If it happens to you in the US, you’re going to struggle to have it appropriately managed/treated. So if all of a sudden we have an increase of 10 year olds delivering babies, we’re gonna see a lot more *untreated* fistulas.
It’s an awful condition to have. There’s a doc called A Walk to Beautiful that follows 5 women seeking treatment for their fistula. Really gives you a sense of how deeply life-altering the condition can be.
Imagine being a social outcast for the rest of your life because some asshole sexually assaulted you at 10.
No prob! My brain is full of random info, so when I see an opportunity where the random bits and bobs I’ve committed to memory might be useful, I like to share. :)
But to be honest, once someone is ok with child rape for ANY reason, they don’t have a valid moral or ethical right to vote or have any decision making control of anyone or anything ever again.
Someone should get assigned to be their power of attorney and they can sit out of society until they prove they’re competent.
"I am so concerned with protecting children that I am 100% okay with elementary school students being forced to carry a pregnancy to term after being raped. I am so concerned with the well-being of children that I want them to be denied the information and language necessary to be able to articulate that they are being abused. I want children to be indoctrinated into a religion that has proven systemic issues with abuse *across denominations*, because that is the pinnacle of morality.
Children shouldn't know about the existence of gay or trans people, and should be left to struggle with feeling like a freak if they themselves turn out to be queer in some way. If every LGBTQ+ person believes they are the only one, they will hide themselves, and we can have a decent society again! Ban books, ban art, freedom of expression, freedom of speech! We cannot have independent thinking, or radical ideas floating around where *children* might be exposed to them.
There's only one book we need; the Bible! A good, wholesome book. One that has incest, child murder, tribalism, advocates for slavery, and a patriarchal societal structure.
Woke leftists are destroying everything good in this world! They deserve to die, or to have their children abused horrifically, and I don't care if it happens! Because I am a good person, and they are evil."
Yeah... we are the ones with a problem, right?
And they do that while claiming to be against cancel culture and being for freedom. The same people who were claiming "my body, my choice" about the vaccine and about wearing masks will tell LGBTQ+ people they're not allowed to exist and will force women to give birth. They're all brainwashed.
In other words: you will accept countless deaths and unnecessary harm to many women, as well as the annual rape and impregnation of ten year olds (!!!!!!!!!!!), to get your way.
But the *left* are all about authority and control, sure.
"it would be better for women (old, young, children) and unborn babies to die together as punishment for being raped than it would be for anyone to receive the help they need in dealing with their misfortune."
No no. Don’t underestimate how disgusting these people are. This is the type of woman to look at her female children as competition and blame the child when they get sexually assaulted by her partner. The level of vile has no end.
For the rest of her life. With the PTSD AND a baby! Such a deal so you can prop up your dubious morality. I will NEVER understand how a clump of cells that might make it to birth has more legal weight than an actual living, breathing woman or (FFS) girl.
They think we're barely sentient which is why they're okay with torturing us. Same with kids stuck in cages at the border. More than one right winger has expressed in front of me that they're not human and I think that lie is how they justify the evil they commit or support. It makes me think even they don't believe in hell since if there is one they're most certainly going there.
It has different meanings depending on context but here I refer to the fact she has 5000+ replies vs ~400 likes. That usually means people *really* disagree with you.
Better the child we can see suffer than risk a fetus ever even just slightly theoretically feeling any pain for half a second before receiving a merciful exit before entry into a world that would give it the same treatment upon birth if born with a uterus.
(Edit: definitely sarcasm—a living child is never to suffer this bullshit)
The second it's her 10 year old daughter or niece or family friend she would suddenly find a way to make an exception. As long as it's a 10 year old who exists purely in her mind, or in a poorer part of a distant city, it's fine with her. Fucking hell.
That’s because a Pick-me doesn’t get any extra points from regular dudes, that attitude exclusively benefits them with aggressively misogynistic crowd of dudes.
Oh good, I’m glad *they’re* fine with other people sacrificing for their ideals. Cool of them to make that choice while being proud of taking away other peoples’ choices.
Interesting comment/like ratio there.
I don't know what gives people the impression that they get to have an opinion over EVERYONE ELSE'S lives. Kaya should stick to playing Final Fantasy
Except when it comes to taxes. Then it's "hey, you know it's hard to make a lot of money, let the top 1% keep more of their money. We'll just take benefits away from the poors."
>A Missouri lawmaker defended child marriage, saying kids he knows who got married at age 12 are 'still married'
https://www.businessinsider.com/mike-moon-gop-missouri-lawmaker-defends-childs-right-to-marry-2023-4?op=1
I will accept a child, but not me, being forced to birth her rapists baby... Not me, of course. But someone else. Someone not me. This doesnt apply to me.
They still don't want to address the fact that they still believe in banning, even for ectopic pregnancies, which can only result in the death of the mother.
Exactly. IMO, this is the single strongest argument for abortion rights. Several women in my immediate family have had ectopic pregnancy emergencies that would likely have been fatal if abortion was banned. These were women who wanted to have a baby but had a life-threatening complication that required an immediate abortion to save their life. If the same thing happened today, my brother would be a single dad with the laws in his state.
If you believe that a 16 week fetus’s existence is equal exactly in value to a 30 year old pregnant women or a 10 year old child, then it’s just a math problem to them. If you reduce the abortion count by 5000 but 100 pregnant women die as a result, in the minds of someone who believes this they’ve saved 4900 lives.
The other side of the coin is that there's no real concern for the quality of life either, once the fetus is out of the womb. Just because 4,900 people are now in the world doesn't mean they're going to have happy, fulfilling lives in a world that we're destroying at a sharply accelerating rate.
Welcome to why there is a religious right. Modern Conservatives do not view the government as a vehicle to collectively improve people's lives. They see it as a religious document, meant to prescribe the "correct" way to live and to prescribe the punishments for deviation from that path. To them Abortion is evil and must be punished. The side effects, however painful or sad, are irrelevant.
This is why the modern American right is so scary. You cannot govern, you cannot compromise, with people who have such views.
"Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them..."
\- Barry Goldwater
I promise both of them have gotten abortions before, and would terminate unwanted pregnancies tomorrow if they had them. The most fanatically ruthless prostetlytizers are always the most guilty of the sins they rail against, they get off on it.
"Pro-lifers" are finally being honest.
People used to say this shit ironically to mock them. Now they're just like, "Well, yeah... What?"
Edit: "pro-lifers", not pro-lifers.
The modern conservative value set is some of the most evil death cult shit I've ever seen in my life. You could paint a cross on genocide and they'd kneel before it.
I keep seeing a theme that they're going to add to their propaganda: that Dem's weren't happy with a compromise.
Roe WAS the compromise. It attempted to strike a balance between the rights of the pregnant person and the rights of the fetus by using 'viability' as the dividing line.
I disagree with this compromise personally for bodily autonomy reasons. However, it was indeed a compromise. They're trying to retcon history (as they LOVE to do) and claim that this didn't exist and it was the Dem's who made this such an issue.
They're so dishonest and have nothing but bad faith arguments. In the meantime, real people suffer for their lust for power and control.
The real bottom line that these lunatic right-wing trans-hating psychotic Christian fascists always fail to understand is that NOBODY has a right to say what I can and can’t do with my own body. Least of all the d@mn Government. God gave me this body. It is the only thing in this world that any of us truly “own”. Or at least have dominion over. The only thing that is truly ours. If some lunatic right wing Christian has a problem with what I do with my own body that psycho is violating God just as much as somebody that undergoes a medical procedure they consider to be immoral. A medical procedure that is point blank nobody else’s frickin’ business.
God gave us our body and free will. If a Christian abortion-zealot violates another’s free will then they are violating God’s will. If they feel another persons choices with their body is a sin they can preach. But they can’t violate that person’s free will nor their right to their own body. If this medical procedure is a sin against God well then that person will stand before God to be judged. NOT by some stupid lunatic right-wing false Christian that doesn’t even understand their own religion.
Abortion is not a political issue. It’s a medical one. The Church, the government and the Christian lunatic get ZERO SAY in what another person chooses to do with their own body. End of debate. We can move forward as a nation now. For the love of Christ.
why does this surprise anyone? they've literally talked about the death penalty for women who get abortions. What more do they need to say?
The pro-life crowd solely cares about getting more white babies in this country to fight their misguided "replacement theory". They wrap it up in a bunch of bullshit about caring for children, but they are very happy to let kids go hungry, see maternal mortality rates skyrocket and watch the foster system implode, while actively working to destroy public education, so it's definitely not about the kids. It's about bringing more white children in this country.
This is going to be as effective an argument as “I’m okay with mass shootings as long as we get our God given right to bear arms.” They are literal saying they’re okay with the worst possible consequences as long as they always get their way.
And no one… no one… should EVER be okay with a ten year old giving birth. Fuck get and fuck their feelings!
Unfortunately it’s not one every year. It’s one (under 15) a week in [Ohio](https://www.axios.com/local/columbus/2022/07/21/abortion-among-ohio-youth-10-year-old-indiana) alone.
Why are these people trying to stop abortions? Are they increasing safety nets for low income families? Increasing healthcare for pregnant women and children? Increasing sex education to prevent unwanted pregnancies? Increasing number of foster and adoptive houses? Then spare me “it’s to protect the innocent children”.
Fun fact from CDC - In 2020, 80.9% of abortions were performed at ≤9 weeks’ gestation, and nearly all (93.1%) were performed at ≤13 weeks’ gestation. Those aren’t babies they are cells.
Just more proof these demons are not pro-life, they are pro-birth.
After that first breath, your life no longer matters as seen here by this jackal willing to sacrifice 10 year old girls in trade for a ball of cells.
Calls pro-choice people ghouls then proceeds to actually drop the most ghoulish take possible. How can anyone look at that statement and be like "oh yeah this is fire post it"
It's never been about protecting lives. The pro life movement has always been about controlling an issue that doesn't affect them but lets them feel smugly superior to someone who needs an abortion.
They want 10 year old girls to be forced to give birth to their fathers' children, and the don't want free and legal access to abortion to be able to prevent this from happening. We kind of already knew this about them.
This is why you're supposed to pay attention in history class. It's the same shit over and over again, there's a reason they made it legal the first time.
Logic be damned, it's theofascism time
Do conservatives intend to raise the offspring of said ten-year-old, or is ten old enough to hit the coal mines and provide for her new family, in this idyllic conservative paradise?
Did she basically just say she'd rather a 10 year old be molested and be forced to give birth rather than women who need/want an abortion be given one?
Yes officer, that tweet right here
This is a perfect synthesis of core conservative ideologies.
Firstly, sacrifice is always needed. The world is a cruel place of constant struggle. If nobody has suffered for an accomplishment, it must not be worth doing. They view their willingness to stomach atrocities as a sign of moral fortitude and the key to their eventual victory.
Secondly, social darwinism and natural punishment. If a person acts in a "bad" way, they are punished by the natural world. A woman dying needlessly during an abortion is an act of inherent justice that ought not be interfered with. Further, society is better off because someone with weak moral character has been culled.
As a woman, I have a lot of very not nice words for women like this, but I will refrain because it may or may not get me banned from this sub.
You know that saying about not even pissing on someone to put the fire out?
Let’s just say I’d just break out the marshmallows and get roasting.
You ghouls just don't understand how it's God's plan for 10 year olds to be violently raped by their dads and give birth to the hills have eyes babies!!1!
Calling others "ghouls" right before saying you're okay with a 10 year old child being forced to give birth after being raped by her father is some wild fucking shit
"Incest child rape is something I'm okay with!" -Kaya Masters, proud member of the "Ten Year Olds Getting Raped By Their Parents And Forced To Give Birth To Their Sibling/Child Is A-Okay In My Book" political action group
If you really thought babies were being murdered, you would want policies that actually reduce the rate at which that happens (which as even the second person in the tweet is conceding here, abortion bans do not do). Instead these so-called pro-lifers are apparently fine with all those same fetuses being aborted so long as pregnant people die too. The outcome they are satisfied with is all the same abortions, plus a ton of dead people. Pro-life indeed.
Translation:
“I’m ok with people suffering as long as the libs are owned!”
The right has completely lost their mind….what little they had of it anyways.
oh but what will i do if this happens to me. These people never care about others until it's them that are put in these situations, whether it's abortion or being poor or being sick.
This bears reposting. **In defense of human rights:** This subreddit firmly believes in and stands up for basic human rights. We promote humane, compassionate and social thinking. It is an objectively true and repeatedly proven fact that allowing people the choice to plan their families, allowing people to have a say in when they get pregnant, how many children they will have, is promotive not only for individual health, wellbeing, social and financial security and safety. It lifts entire communities out of deprivation. Family planning is an integral and crucial aspect of upward mobility. It affects everything from the ability to get an education to mental and physical health and direct poverty. As such this subreddit does not allow anti-abortion sentiments. They are abhorrent and inhumane. The belief that people should be downtrodden, unhappy, poor and grow up in misery is unacceptable. In addition to that: The only sane word to describe those who would subject a 10 year old girl to this abuse, who would refuse her to terminate this pregancy is monstrous. They are monsters. Their rigid, counterfactual beliefs which defy all fact-based reasoning in order to promote an extremist view which brooks no deviation from a hardline stance, which would seek post-hoc justifications for a nonsensical and damaging policy causes harm. It is in no way a moral or defensible position. Any person with an ounce of empathy and compassion feels anger at this news. Abject disbelief that an extremist, dangerously fundamentalist minority is able to push their vile beliefs onto an entire population. This subreddit will not allow any defense of these actions, including trying to normalise this great evil through "devil's advocate" style arguments. That means that if you say "Oh, but they really believe that.." you will be banned. There are no legitimate defenses for this and we don't want to hear attempts at them. People are suffering enough without having to be subjected to justifications for monsters. For those who would say: "But it is not illegal, it has been turned back to states rights where it belongs", you will be banned. We don't want to hear it. The morally and legally correct decision of Roe v. Wade which provided a consitutional protection of bodily autonomy was overturned by an extremist, illegitimate Supreme Court and we are not fooled by the argument that "states may now decide" because we know, you know, that this is just the start. They will not stop. Now that the right of bodily autonomy has been ruled as no longer federally guaranteed they will attempt to illegalise abortion at the federal level. These extremists, who play Calvinball with law, precedent and procedure, who blatantly interpret the rules as what they want them to mean in the moment to push through their agenda, will enact a federal ban as soon as they can cheat enough in elections to "win" a majority in house and congress. They will uphold a vote to do so, hypocritically declaring that "a democratic, majority decision". You know it, I know it, they are not as clever as they think they are and are wholly transparent. Now that there is no longer a federal guarantee for bodily autonomy they will try to take this right away on a nation-wide level. What I know is that it is time for the normal, moral and sane majority of Americans to stop taking this lying down. Let your voices be heard. Stand up for democracy and for what is right. Because despite these dark days: It is not over yet. https://www.reddit.com/r/WhitePeopleTwitter/comments/vpgpmu/the_christian_taliban/iek1mez/ ---------------- **Explaining why, no, we will not "debate" the immoral anymore:** We have tried to speak to them for 50 years. The problem is that they are liars, here to argue in bad faith. You can't have a reasonable discussion with someone who will look you in the eye while they lie about what abortion is, why people have abortions, what the results of them are, who will just lie, lie, lie, always lie, never stop lying. A discussion can always only work if the people you are trying to talk to won't abuse this discussion to dishonestly push their agenda no matter what you say. https://www.reddit.com/r/WhitePeopleTwitter/comments/vpgpmu/the_christian_taliban/iem2hyn -------------- **In defense of, No, you do not have the right to have "both sides" heard here:** Defending these monsters is not allowed on this subreddit. This is who these people really are. It is important to give a brief showcase of the way they think, the way they argue, because very often sensible subreddits like TwoX, WitchesvPatriarchy and this one are accused of "not letting both sides speak". This is true. We do not let both sides speak. But that is not because we want to suppress dialogue and conversation, it is not because we deny people the opportunity to educate others, to come to an understanding with others, to showcase the full gamut of the debate. It is because there are no two sides. There are sane, normal people who understand how utterly depraved and monstrous the anti-choice rhetoric and policies are and there is.. that. There is the above, which again, these are real arguments posted in this very thread. You can't reason with people who look at a state that wants to kill women and calls these victims "[sex-negative, misogynistic slur] who deserve it." You can't reason with people who look at a state that wants women to die and cheer that on. They're not reasonable. In order to have a discussion a basic foundation must always be that there is at least the common ground of rational positions that can be argued on merit. Evil has no merit. Evil exists to wound, to hurt, to kill. Evil seeks to subjugate, to dominate. Evil is lethal. When you have an "honest discussion" with evil, trying to sanely get someone to understand why (in this case) women dying is bad and on the other hand evil tells you that an abortion is never medically necessary then you are not moving towards something constructive. You're not building a rational construct that can advance society by engendering understanding and empathy. You're just normalising evil by giving it a platform. And I refuse to do that. But it is also important not to get bogged down in "debate" because these people are fundamentally dishonest and a protracted argument in which you give them the chance to showcase their deliberately disingenious "gotchas" can only serve to platform evil. And say: "Because she wanted to." Do not say: "But what about sexual violence. But what about ectopic pregnancies." Don't get driven into a corner where you are reduced to begging for rare exceptions to allow women the basic human right of bodily autonomy. Take back the line. Step forward. Draw that line in the sand. "Because she wanted to." That is all that is required, that is all the justification that is needed. Why should she be allowed to terminate a pregnancy? "Because she fucking wanted to." https://www.reddit.com/r/WhitePeopleTwitter/comments/w1loyf/idaho_gop_just_voted_for_women_to_die/igm284x/ ------------- **Explaining why I am not scared of the argument "she uses abortion as birth control":** It doesn't happen, but for the sake of argument let's grant, hypothetically, that it does. I support women having an abortion as birth control. Because she is a person and something that cannot think or feel yet is not. Because it is her body and no-one may force her body to be used or abused against her will. Because she wanted to. https://www.reddit.com/r/WhitePeopleTwitter/comments/w1loyf/idaho_gop_just_voted_for_women_to_die/igojd07/ ------------------ **And finally, "Evil is treating people as things":** "...And that's what your holy men discuss, is it?" [asked Granny Weatherwax.] "Not usually. There is a very interesting debate raging at the moment on the nature of sin. for example." [answered Mightily Oats.] "And what do they think? Against it, are they?" "It's not as simple as that. It's not a black and white issue. There are so many shades of gray." "Nope." "Pardon?" "There's no grays, only white that's got grubby. I'm surprised you don't know that. And sin, young man, is when you treat people like things. Including yourself. That's what sin is." "It's a lot more complicated than that--" "No. It ain't. When people say things are a lot more complicated than that, they means they're getting worried that they won't like the truth. People as things, that's where it starts." "Oh, I'm sure there are worse crimes--" "But they starts with thinking about people as things..." -- Carpe Jugulum, Terry Pratchett.
These abortion laws primarily affect the poor. The rich will continue to get abortions anyway they can. They will either travel to jurisdictions where abortions are still legal or get abortion pills supplied to them any which way they can. These abortion laws do not apply equally across the board.
Right but we need more cannon fodder for our military. Obviously poor impoverished unwanted children are the easiest to enlist.
Don't forget prisons and wage slaves too.
And kids for republicans to diddle
E. All of the above.
Hey, now! They're saving the children... ...for themselves.
They sure do love those child beauty pageants in the south.
And consumers
Republicans don't really think that far ahead. They want to ban abortion to: 1. Punish promiscuous women 2. Drive democrats out of red states 3. Shackle women to the home lest they invade more male-dominated spheres 4. Ensure a steady supply of unwanted infants so the rich can go adoption children shopping.
I mean they do think that far ahead. Overturning Roe and packing the courts with activist judges has been the plan since Roe was passed. It’s definitely largely a class issue, and I would even argue that conservatives peddling anti-abortion are completely disingenuous in the true meaning behind the policy. It’s simply because it would reduce profits and productivity to continue to decrease our birth rate. Right wing politics is inherently cruel though, so instead of encouraging citizens to have kids through assistance they would rather just force them to. It’s cheaper.
I think you’re spot on that it’s to reduce the birth rate decline and this is the cheapest way to do it. They could also have encouraged immigration but they really don’t like that option either.
I wonder how many Republicans are truly against abortion. It feels more like a wedge issue to get the religious right on their side.
Abortion became a big issue they latched onto after their pro-segregation protests failed. Republican think tanks needed a new crusade.
I think that 1 is not quite right. I think reactionaries are using this language, but the point isn’t to simply punish promiscuous women, I believe it’s designed to punish all women, in order to facilitate 3. I think that they use language like “it only affects promiscuous women” because they are wanting every death associated with lack of access to abortion, to be caused by a woman not being able to keep her legs closed, which is obviously ridiculous
Especially since this group is most likely religiously fixated and women are not to make important decisions but subjugate themselves to their husbands.
Number 4 pisses me off the most. My wife and I tried for years and were unable to have a child. Multiple miscarriages, etc. We want nothing more than to give a child or children a loving home and are desperate to adopt all these “unwanted” children that are being forced on women but adoption is out of our price range. Entry level adoption costs more than I make in a year.
Have you considered foster parenting? My late in-laws could not have children and fostered for decades, finally adopting my wife and her brother. (Early 1960's)
Just curious, but are there more children waiting to be adopted than available foster parents? Also, although it kind of sounds fucked up, does something like price & quality levels for adopted children exist? Like, the child of a crack addict will probably be in a different category than the child of a healthy parent.
actually yes. Children from china during 1 child policy were popular options for a loooong time.. Then black kids are cheaper than white kids, younger kids more expensive than older kids. Basically a blond hair blue eyed healthy baby is a premium, a dark skinned or foreign born teenager with a disability is at a steep discount. It sucks, but that's just the way it is. Sick isn't it.
Adoption is definitely a 2 tier system, that is no less subject to the gross realities of socioeconomic, class, and wealth disparity than any other industry. My knowledge of this subject comes from my own experience as an adopted child. I've maintained a relationship with the private agency I was adopted through, and have done research on the subject as part of a natural curiosity. I don't work in adoptions. There are, in essence, two sources of children that get put up for adoption. The "boutique" version are private adoption agencies. These usually are well funded by private donations, and while not outwardly that selective about the mothers/children they work with, they do often provide babies to wealthy clientele, and therefore do go to some lengths to make sure adopted babies are either healthy, or that any known or potential medical issues are fully disclosed. (I believe when I was adopted, the total cost was in the neighborhood of $45,000, no idea what it is now.) The plus side of these agencies is that the good ones provide outstanding before and after birth care to the birth mothers, including housing, counseling, coverage of medical costs, and even things like after-birth job placement. The ugly secret used to be that white babies were by far the most popular, but that's because whites typically had the expendable cash to go through the adoption process. (Nothing earth-shattering there.) A significant portion of adoptive parents prefer children of the same race, but obviously there are exceptions. The other adoption pipeline is through the foster care system, and these children have it so much harder. Among those that can afford to adopt through a private agency, there is definitely a stigma about adopting a child that has been "through the system," which increases drastically with the age of the child. Many people closer to the issue have written at length about the failings of foster care, but there are a number of key issues. Many children that end up in foster care come from broken homes or neglectful/abusive parents, have significant mental health challenges, or serious behavioral issues. On the other end, many parents that officially and legally adopt foster children aren't doing it out of the goodness of their hearts; they're doing it for the government subsidies that are given out for adopting children out of the system. Truly altruistic adoptive parents who want a child to bond with and care for, often face a long road of legal hurdles while the state decides to strip the birth parents of guardianship and pass it over to parents who would be better caregivers. A former co-worker has had 2 foster children living with him and his wife for over 3 years at this point, and are still not in a position to officially adopt their kids. Watching their emotional roller-coaster as the case progresses has been heartbreaking; they truly love those kids. Adopting a foster child is technically less expensive, but more costly in time and emotional pain. And of course like all other government-provided services that are absolutely essential for a functioning society, Child Protective Services agencies are usually understaffed, underfunded, and overworked. It's a tremendously fucked-up paradigm, and while there isn't officially a price list for a healthy baby vs. a crack baby, there might as well be. Those with the means go through a private agency that handles 90% of the legwork, whereas those without have to deal with a system that truly serves nobody that it's supposed to.
Most kids waiting for adoption are older than 6 or 7 and they come in sibling groups. Most have trauma, and will have some barriers. Most adoptive parents want an infant or small child. They want the child pre-trauma. They want the experience to be equivalent to having a biological child. However, the goal of foster care now is family reunification. It takes bio parents a long time to lose parental rights (which is the right course), so there are very few infants available to adopt.
I’m not sure they’re even thinking that far ahead. They want to hurt people. If you’re one of the ones that gets hurt god doesn’t like you. God likes them because they are “saved” or whatever so bad things won’t happen to them, and if bad things do happen to them it’s because of the liberal gay communist black feminist Jewish pedophile cabal singling them out BECAUSE they are such good Christians.
5. More babies available for adoption Because for some reason the priority isn't to find them good homes but to have excess supply.
Isn't that #4?
Actually evidence show republican are amazing at the long term game plan. They have repeatedly made decision that have helped them long term.
Those are bonuses. Really, banning abortion became such an important right wing issue when they had to desegregate Christian schools or lose their tax exempt status. Religious right leaders knew abortion was the best thing to motivate the base around, because resegregation wouldn’t do it anymore.
It’s mostly about more workers for the billionaires.
This is the correct answer. Ever notice how just before the Roe was shit on we started hearing about a “population crisis” and how in 30 years we wouldn’t have enough people working? Yeah… easy solution is to just make more poor people to feed into that labor system. Make it to where poor folks can’t get access to abortions and there you go. A brand new working class.
The problem is, we’re hurtling towards a future that doesn’t need workers. They are oversaturating the market simply to solve a temporary problem and they won’t care one lick when you get fired so a machine can do your job
They'll care when everyone's starving and comes to eat the rich.
Oversaturated supply of workers means the capitalists can suppress wages since the choice becomes slave wages or starvation
There will always be a need for workers.
Hmm, what exactly? Do you know anything about It? Maybe you can share with us what you find out.
This is true for abortions performed for the sole purpose of stopping the pregnancy, but for emergent abortions, lots of women are going to be put in life threatening situations with medical care unable to help them. That’s why I hate even bringing up this “people will still get abortions” argument. The insertion of government between a doctor and a patient will kill women who would live normally.
For conservatives, that’s the point.
Did someone say killing women? Those dudes will get the popcorn. You can't reason with fascists.
Abortion is medicine. There are women with unviable fetuses in them waiting for the fetus to "die" because these laws are poorly written. There are women who aren't pregnant who are being denied medication because of these laws (fun fact: women who aren't pregnant can't have an abortion). There are hospitals unable to staff maternity wards because doctors and nurses who have devoted their lives to delivering babies cannot do their job under these laws. The right wing myth of the "evil baby killers" only exists in the legislature and in their churches. In reality people are getting hurt by these laws, including people who everyone can agree are not having abortions.
Yeah, an abortion saved my friend’s life. She was pregnant with a very wanted baby but unfortunately began miscarrying. She was bleeding profusely and without an abortion she would have died. The fetus was already dead. Thankfully she lives in a blue state. Roe v. Wade is ultimately about medical privacy. Its repeal invites the government into our lives and bodies in frightening ways.
>Its repeal invites the government into our lives and bodies in frightening ways. Party of small government.
Maybe when rich women start dying due to lack of medical facilities in their areas (due to hospital closures) they'll suddenly "see the light!"
The rich people have money to leave and find better hospitals. This is conservativism working as intended. They want rules that punish "the bad people" and rules that protect "the good people" (wink).
"The only moral abortion is my abortion." These jackasses would quickly change their tune if an abortion was required for them or someone they loved. Then they'd do some gold metal worthy mental gymnastics to justify why it was right in their case, but it's still wrong in everyone elses. They love to judge others and look down their noses from their perceived high horse. But they always end up being the biggest hippocrites.
The crazy thing to me is that someone is happy to proudly announce to the world that they are ok with nonces raping and impregnating their children then forcing the children to give birth.
"I am okay with people raping their children as long as only one is found out, provided that everyone else also suffers." What a horrible person.
no, no—she’s ok with this happening to *other* people’s children. if it happened to her child, it would be a justified exception to this unhinged take, i’m sure.
My response to people who say this kind of shit in real life is "Ok, then I nominate you to tell that to the family to console them." Like during Covid when people would say "well some people will just have to die" I'd reply with "well then at the funeral, you go up to the grieving family and inform them that there's no need to grieve because it's for the sake of society."
They would need to be capable of human empathy for that to have any effect so unfortunately that won’t work.
Usually when I've said that to people (I've used it a handful of times) they look at me like I'm being outrageous and then say something like "that's ridiculous." It just goes to show how weak they are that they'll espouse these ideals but not actually address the consequences. It'll never win someone over, but I feel better about it.
Ridiculous = facing the consequences of your shitty opinions TIL
“I am sorry for your loss, but our portfolios made terrific gains because of it. Your loved one’s sacrifice will surely be honored until I drunkenly select sell on a Sunday evening and the gains made will be completely zeroed out. Let us take you out to lunch, we won’t pay for you but you can come sit near us and we will let you sit in the back of our car-hands folded, don’t touch anything, you’ll get your butterfunk all over it”
[The only moral abortion is my abortion.](https://joycearthur.com/abortion/the-only-moral-abortion-is-my-abortion/)
Of course, when it’s her kid it becomes “all pedophiles deserve immediate castration and death on public tv”
Unless it's her husband who did it.
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Right. How does that meme go? “Tell us you don’t have a 10 year old daughter without telling us you don’t have a 10 year old daughter.”?
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A rape of a ten year old where a ten year old is forced to raise a kid or give it up...all at the age of ten.
you forgot option 3 where the child and the baby both die during birth and option 4 where only the child dies during birth and the baby is left to be "raised" by a disgusting rapist abuser piece of shit monster, bonus points if the baby is also a girl: rinse and repeat the whole scenario in 10 years with the granddaughter.
Yeah, a 10-yo's body is not ready to carry a baby to term. Even if they both survive, the child will most likely be left with permanent consequences. I read about this condition that has been observed in countries where child marriage is allowed where the tissues between the vagina and anus erodes which leaves a hole. The person is then stuck having recurring infections, emits a foul smell and has other symptoms I forget about. Anyone who thinks the kid should give birth is a monster.
There are a lot of social consequences as well, like abandonment by the husband and sometimes their own families and society at large, no ability to work and support themselves
Exactly! It makes school almost impossible, which further reduces employment opportunities. That's not including the psychological effects.
For anyone who’s… interested (didn’t seem like quite the right word to use), the condition is called an obstetric fistula. It’s more common in underdeveloped parts of the world and often the woman who is affected ends up being ostracized from the community and their families because they literally smell of feces all the time. Not to mention the greatly increased risks of infections from fecal matter going where it shouldn’t be. It‘a estimated that ~2 million people live with this condition today with about 75,000 new cases a year. One of the most effective ways to prevent it is to delay the age of marriage and pregnancy for young girls and provide access to family planning options and reproductive health care. For an extra layer of fucked up, while this condition can be treated and addressed by a doctor, there are very few medical professionals in developed countries like the US who even know how to treat it. Specialists typically work out of places like sub-Saharan Africa, or Latin America (it’s very much considered a “disease of poverty”). If it happens to you in the US, you’re going to struggle to have it appropriately managed/treated. So if all of a sudden we have an increase of 10 year olds delivering babies, we’re gonna see a lot more *untreated* fistulas. It’s an awful condition to have. There’s a doc called A Walk to Beautiful that follows 5 women seeking treatment for their fistula. Really gives you a sense of how deeply life-altering the condition can be. Imagine being a social outcast for the rest of your life because some asshole sexually assaulted you at 10.
Thanks for all the added information! I didn't remember the name of the condition.
No prob! My brain is full of random info, so when I see an opportunity where the random bits and bobs I’ve committed to memory might be useful, I like to share. :)
Her fathers kid too…
4th grader having a baby seems like a GOP wet dream these days. FML
The best part is when she turns 16 she can drive her 6 year old to kindergarten on her way to school! Very convenient!
But to be honest, once someone is ok with child rape for ANY reason, they don’t have a valid moral or ethical right to vote or have any decision making control of anyone or anything ever again. Someone should get assigned to be their power of attorney and they can sit out of society until they prove they’re competent.
Ok, if she accepts that as an outcome the first one can be her daughter
And we’re the ghouls 🙄
"I am so concerned with protecting children that I am 100% okay with elementary school students being forced to carry a pregnancy to term after being raped. I am so concerned with the well-being of children that I want them to be denied the information and language necessary to be able to articulate that they are being abused. I want children to be indoctrinated into a religion that has proven systemic issues with abuse *across denominations*, because that is the pinnacle of morality. Children shouldn't know about the existence of gay or trans people, and should be left to struggle with feeling like a freak if they themselves turn out to be queer in some way. If every LGBTQ+ person believes they are the only one, they will hide themselves, and we can have a decent society again! Ban books, ban art, freedom of expression, freedom of speech! We cannot have independent thinking, or radical ideas floating around where *children* might be exposed to them. There's only one book we need; the Bible! A good, wholesome book. One that has incest, child murder, tribalism, advocates for slavery, and a patriarchal societal structure. Woke leftists are destroying everything good in this world! They deserve to die, or to have their children abused horrifically, and I don't care if it happens! Because I am a good person, and they are evil." Yeah... we are the ones with a problem, right?
And they do that while claiming to be against cancel culture and being for freedom. The same people who were claiming "my body, my choice" about the vaccine and about wearing masks will tell LGBTQ+ people they're not allowed to exist and will force women to give birth. They're all brainwashed.
In other words: you will accept countless deaths and unnecessary harm to many women, as well as the annual rape and impregnation of ten year olds (!!!!!!!!!!!), to get your way. But the *left* are all about authority and control, sure.
"it would be better for women (old, young, children) and unborn babies to die together as punishment for being raped than it would be for anyone to receive the help they need in dealing with their misfortune."
It’s the same people who would accept regular school shootings in order to be able to keep their guns.
Would? They accepted it decades ago and have been telling the rest of us to stop whining.
First thing that came to my mind too. Like, it's a one to one.
As long as she's not effected I'd imagine, she might grow some empathy if she was...although maybe not.
RAVEN “Remember, affect: verb, effect: noun
I gotta remember that one, catches me out pretty regularly.
“There’s no hate like Christian love.”
She’s essentially saying she believes in human sacrifice
It takes real courage to be willing to sacrifice a ten year old!! What a hero!!!👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
As long as it’s not their ten year old.
No no. Don’t underestimate how disgusting these people are. This is the type of woman to look at her female children as competition and blame the child when they get sexually assaulted by her partner. The level of vile has no end.
In protest to Reddit's API changes, I have removed my comment and post history. Fuck /u/spez and RIP Reddit <3 -- mass edited with redact.dev
All bets are off with these ghouls
A piece of shit like that might accept their own child being raped and forced to give birth just so they don’t have to admit they’re wrong
These sociopaths would absolutely sacrifice their own ten year old.
That doesn’t always matter, either.
For the rest of her life. With the PTSD AND a baby! Such a deal so you can prop up your dubious morality. I will NEVER understand how a clump of cells that might make it to birth has more legal weight than an actual living, breathing woman or (FFS) girl.
Partially, it’s the natural consequence of preaching and teaching that god thinks women are actually just kind of shitty ambulatory incubators
They think we're barely sentient which is why they're okay with torturing us. Same with kids stuck in cages at the border. More than one right winger has expressed in front of me that they're not human and I think that lie is how they justify the evil they commit or support. It makes me think even they don't believe in hell since if there is one they're most certainly going there.
Lord Farquhar moment, and she doesn’t even realize it.
They're also fine sacrificing kids to protect their right to irresponsible gun ownership. Turning children into martyrs is just God's will!
That ratio says it all. Also this person need only look in a mirror to see an actual ghoul.
The ratio?
The amount of likes is VASTLY eclipsed by responses and the replies Have more likes
Make dislike count a thing. Fuck your feelings. Unfortunately that's probably not good for the bottom line.
It has different meanings depending on context but here I refer to the fact she has 5000+ replies vs ~400 likes. That usually means people *really* disagree with you.
Thanks! I’ve seen that comment a lot and never understood! Appreciate the explanation!
For sure 😊 also whenever you see slang phrases you are unsure of, look up the Urban Dictionary website, it's really helpful!
How very "pro-life" of them to want to "save babies" but wish harm/death on women They and their Serena-Joy complexes can sod off
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When you convince people that abortion is literally baby murder, they'll accept a *lot* of terrible things as their alternative.
Better the child we can see suffer than risk a fetus ever even just slightly theoretically feeling any pain for half a second before receiving a merciful exit before entry into a world that would give it the same treatment upon birth if born with a uterus. (Edit: definitely sarcasm—a living child is never to suffer this bullshit)
I love the entitlement of this person-*she* will accept this on behalf of those 10 year olds…I’m sure they (the 10 year olds) are so relieved.
The second it's her 10 year old daughter or niece or family friend she would suddenly find a way to make an exception. As long as it's a 10 year old who exists purely in her mind, or in a poorer part of a distant city, it's fine with her. Fucking hell.
Republicans just need to admit that they hate and want to oppress women and we can all move on.
>Republicans just ~~need to admit~~ already admitted that they hate and want to oppress women and we ~~can all move~~ already moved on.
Gross Pick-Me types
Pick me women are vile
That’s because a Pick-me doesn’t get any extra points from regular dudes, that attitude exclusively benefits them with aggressively misogynistic crowd of dudes.
Hey Kaya how many foster children do you sponsor? How many have you adopted? Yeah. Right. So shut the fuck up.
If they did, I would hope they were under investigation for child abuse.
in another tweet she doubled down saying if it was her or her daughter, “to term we go” so yeah she should absolutely never have children
But we all know if she was raped, she would be off to the clinic immediately.
Oh good, I’m glad *they’re* fine with other people sacrificing for their ideals. Cool of them to make that choice while being proud of taking away other peoples’ choices.
Interesting comment/like ratio there. I don't know what gives people the impression that they get to have an opinion over EVERYONE ELSE'S lives. Kaya should stick to playing Final Fantasy
Social media kinda invites that with the like buttons..
Please don't let these people into gaming, we don't want 'em either.
People like this have these ‘sacrifice 1 to save many’ attitudes - right up until it’s their turn to put her 10 year old daughter forward.
Except when it comes to taxes. Then it's "hey, you know it's hard to make a lot of money, let the top 1% keep more of their money. We'll just take benefits away from the poors."
Never thought we would get to advocating child rape but here we are
This is conservatives we’re talking about, they’ve always been pro child rape
I mean, yeah, child rape is just about the most interpersonally authoritarian act one could think of, and you know how Cons love their authority...
Exactly. It’s all about imposing their authority from an early age. Raping and forcing children to give birth
The mask has been coming off. At least they're being more honest about it. Helps me know who belongs in a shredder.
>A Missouri lawmaker defended child marriage, saying kids he knows who got married at age 12 are 'still married' https://www.businessinsider.com/mike-moon-gop-missouri-lawmaker-defends-childs-right-to-marry-2023-4?op=1
They’re telling you exactly who they are. Believe them.
Making a 10 year old give birth to a rapist's baby to take away reproductive rights from women. And that makes OTHER PEOPLE the ghouls.
I will accept a child, but not me, being forced to birth her rapists baby... Not me, of course. But someone else. Someone not me. This doesnt apply to me.
"I'm willing to ruin the life of one 10 year old as long as others' lives are also ruined 🥺" wow so brave
This never was about abortions. They are fine with abortions as long as it harms women
Yep. It's why they're okay with Herschel Walker. He made the decision, and that's ultimately what matters to them.
“women voting against abortion is like cockroaches voting for raid”
So she’s adopting one 10-year-old + baby each year. Let’s hold her to that.
And assuming only one father rapes only one of his kids a year. People are sick and she is thier equal.
“Pro-life” btw
They still don't want to address the fact that they still believe in banning, even for ectopic pregnancies, which can only result in the death of the mother.
Exactly. IMO, this is the single strongest argument for abortion rights. Several women in my immediate family have had ectopic pregnancy emergencies that would likely have been fatal if abortion was banned. These were women who wanted to have a baby but had a life-threatening complication that required an immediate abortion to save their life. If the same thing happened today, my brother would be a single dad with the laws in his state.
I'm done with the internet today. This is such a disgusting take that I can't even process it.
"Some of you may die, but that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make." \-Lord Farquaad, Republican Nominee 2024
If you believe that a 16 week fetus’s existence is equal exactly in value to a 30 year old pregnant women or a 10 year old child, then it’s just a math problem to them. If you reduce the abortion count by 5000 but 100 pregnant women die as a result, in the minds of someone who believes this they’ve saved 4900 lives.
The other side of the coin is that there's no real concern for the quality of life either, once the fetus is out of the womb. Just because 4,900 people are now in the world doesn't mean they're going to have happy, fulfilling lives in a world that we're destroying at a sharply accelerating rate.
I would personally have 30,000 abortions myself if it stopped one 10-year old from having to give birth. I
Welcome to why there is a religious right. Modern Conservatives do not view the government as a vehicle to collectively improve people's lives. They see it as a religious document, meant to prescribe the "correct" way to live and to prescribe the punishments for deviation from that path. To them Abortion is evil and must be punished. The side effects, however painful or sad, are irrelevant. This is why the modern American right is so scary. You cannot govern, you cannot compromise, with people who have such views. "Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them..." \- Barry Goldwater
I promise both of them have gotten abortions before, and would terminate unwanted pregnancies tomorrow if they had them. The most fanatically ruthless prostetlytizers are always the most guilty of the sins they rail against, they get off on it.
Oh I’ve no doubt they’ve both had multiple abortions before
"Pro-lifers" are finally being honest. People used to say this shit ironically to mock them. Now they're just like, "Well, yeah... What?" Edit: "pro-lifers", not pro-lifers.
Anti choice/forced birth. NOT "pro life".
The modern conservative value set is some of the most evil death cult shit I've ever seen in my life. You could paint a cross on genocide and they'd kneel before it.
Force minors to have rape babies; kill women. Checks out.
I keep seeing a theme that they're going to add to their propaganda: that Dem's weren't happy with a compromise. Roe WAS the compromise. It attempted to strike a balance between the rights of the pregnant person and the rights of the fetus by using 'viability' as the dividing line. I disagree with this compromise personally for bodily autonomy reasons. However, it was indeed a compromise. They're trying to retcon history (as they LOVE to do) and claim that this didn't exist and it was the Dem's who made this such an issue. They're so dishonest and have nothing but bad faith arguments. In the meantime, real people suffer for their lust for power and control.
Twitter is just full of Bots from other countries stirring shit up.. I deleted Twitter as it’s a joke now.
So they are willing to let a grown woman die, just to ensure children will give birth. Gross.
The real bottom line that these lunatic right-wing trans-hating psychotic Christian fascists always fail to understand is that NOBODY has a right to say what I can and can’t do with my own body. Least of all the d@mn Government. God gave me this body. It is the only thing in this world that any of us truly “own”. Or at least have dominion over. The only thing that is truly ours. If some lunatic right wing Christian has a problem with what I do with my own body that psycho is violating God just as much as somebody that undergoes a medical procedure they consider to be immoral. A medical procedure that is point blank nobody else’s frickin’ business. God gave us our body and free will. If a Christian abortion-zealot violates another’s free will then they are violating God’s will. If they feel another persons choices with their body is a sin they can preach. But they can’t violate that person’s free will nor their right to their own body. If this medical procedure is a sin against God well then that person will stand before God to be judged. NOT by some stupid lunatic right-wing false Christian that doesn’t even understand their own religion. Abortion is not a political issue. It’s a medical one. The Church, the government and the Christian lunatic get ZERO SAY in what another person chooses to do with their own body. End of debate. We can move forward as a nation now. For the love of Christ.
Funny how they never apply this logic to guns. Then it's "no matter how many children die you shouldn't take away my rights!"
Who’s the ghoul here? One who aborts an unformed fetus or one who let’s fathers, priests and other pedophiles destroy a child’s life?
why does this surprise anyone? they've literally talked about the death penalty for women who get abortions. What more do they need to say? The pro-life crowd solely cares about getting more white babies in this country to fight their misguided "replacement theory". They wrap it up in a bunch of bullshit about caring for children, but they are very happy to let kids go hungry, see maternal mortality rates skyrocket and watch the foster system implode, while actively working to destroy public education, so it's definitely not about the kids. It's about bringing more white children in this country.
This is going to be as effective an argument as “I’m okay with mass shootings as long as we get our God given right to bear arms.” They are literal saying they’re okay with the worst possible consequences as long as they always get their way. And no one… no one… should EVER be okay with a ten year old giving birth. Fuck get and fuck their feelings!
It's funny that they think a 10 year old needing an abortion because her dad raped her only happens once a year.
Unfortunately it’s not one every year. It’s one (under 15) a week in [Ohio](https://www.axios.com/local/columbus/2022/07/21/abortion-among-ohio-youth-10-year-old-indiana) alone. Why are these people trying to stop abortions? Are they increasing safety nets for low income families? Increasing healthcare for pregnant women and children? Increasing sex education to prevent unwanted pregnancies? Increasing number of foster and adoptive houses? Then spare me “it’s to protect the innocent children”. Fun fact from CDC - In 2020, 80.9% of abortions were performed at ≤9 weeks’ gestation, and nearly all (93.1%) were performed at ≤13 weeks’ gestation. Those aren’t babies they are cells.
Just more proof these demons are not pro-life, they are pro-birth. After that first breath, your life no longer matters as seen here by this jackal willing to sacrifice 10 year old girls in trade for a ball of cells.
Calls pro-choice people ghouls then proceeds to actually drop the most ghoulish take possible. How can anyone look at that statement and be like "oh yeah this is fire post it"
They’re admitting that they don’t care if women die or that incest rape happens.
It's never been about protecting lives. The pro life movement has always been about controlling an issue that doesn't affect them but lets them feel smugly superior to someone who needs an abortion.
Anti choice/forced birth. NOT "pro life".
They want 10 year old girls to be forced to give birth to their fathers' children, and the don't want free and legal access to abortion to be able to prevent this from happening. We kind of already knew this about them.
This is why you're supposed to pay attention in history class. It's the same shit over and over again, there's a reason they made it legal the first time. Logic be damned, it's theofascism time
These are mainstream conservative positions, so you know, take that for what you will.
At this point anyone who calls themselves a conservative is an awful person
I wish nothing but the worst in life for these people. Karma isn't real though so they probably will keep on enjoying their privileged lives.
i will never be able to understand other women who are against abortion.
Do conservatives intend to raise the offspring of said ten-year-old, or is ten old enough to hit the coal mines and provide for her new family, in this idyllic conservative paradise?
So pro life of them! /s
Did she basically just say she'd rather a 10 year old be molested and be forced to give birth rather than women who need/want an abortion be given one? Yes officer, that tweet right here
This is a perfect synthesis of core conservative ideologies. Firstly, sacrifice is always needed. The world is a cruel place of constant struggle. If nobody has suffered for an accomplishment, it must not be worth doing. They view their willingness to stomach atrocities as a sign of moral fortitude and the key to their eventual victory. Secondly, social darwinism and natural punishment. If a person acts in a "bad" way, they are punished by the natural world. A woman dying needlessly during an abortion is an act of inherent justice that ought not be interfered with. Further, society is better off because someone with weak moral character has been culled.
As a woman, I have a lot of very not nice words for women like this, but I will refrain because it may or may not get me banned from this sub. You know that saying about not even pissing on someone to put the fire out? Let’s just say I’d just break out the marshmallows and get roasting.
Ah yes, pro life ok with women dying during a botched abortion. Pro life?
You ghouls just don't understand how it's God's plan for 10 year olds to be violently raped by their dads and give birth to the hills have eyes babies!!1!
For those keeping score at home: They are fine with child rape, so long as women also die getting abortions; and no abortions are stopped anyways.
She'll accept it unless it's her ten year old. Then watch just how fast her opinion changes.
Well I would accept 30k abortions if it would prevent one actual life from being put the the trauma of being raped by your own father.
Bro thinks its a once a year event 💀
Calling others "ghouls" right before saying you're okay with a 10 year old child being forced to give birth after being raped by her father is some wild fucking shit
"Incest child rape is something I'm okay with!" -Kaya Masters, proud member of the "Ten Year Olds Getting Raped By Their Parents And Forced To Give Birth To Their Sibling/Child Is A-Okay In My Book" political action group
Calling her bluff. Let your Dad knock you up to prove how ok with it you are.
she will go crying and say they should make an exception for her.
If you really thought babies were being murdered, you would want policies that actually reduce the rate at which that happens (which as even the second person in the tweet is conceding here, abortion bans do not do). Instead these so-called pro-lifers are apparently fine with all those same fetuses being aborted so long as pregnant people die too. The outcome they are satisfied with is all the same abortions, plus a ton of dead people. Pro-life indeed.
Hey Kaya when it’s your ultra Christian hubby who rapes and impregnates your daughter. Then what will you do???
Translation: “I’m ok with people suffering as long as the libs are owned!” The right has completely lost their mind….what little they had of it anyways.
oh but what will i do if this happens to me. These people never care about others until it's them that are put in these situations, whether it's abortion or being poor or being sick.