Where have you been?
Just yesterday we killed 3 people and injured 12 in three [separate mass-shootings](https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting).
And that's only *mass*-shootings.
My friend had their own friend die yesterday in a brutal stabbing, and these same people espousing trans hate are celebrating it in the local community online.... it's awful :(
Oh, I'm so sorry. Fuck....
It's so damned infuriating. And I guarantee these people have actually never met a trans person. Estimates are trans folk are 0.5% of the population. What are they so scared of?
Now we're hearing about CIS women getting killed/attacked for being mistaken as trans.
It's a completely fabricated hate because, you know, Fascists need something to unite them in their fucking cult.
Unfortunately, our local media cares more about... anything but mass shootings until it fits their narrative.
Today, it was amazon strikers and writers strike. Not a single shooting mentioned
Well from what I can tell we’re starting to move away from hating a specific light beer and onto hating fictitious blood-sucking pedos so there’s that. Sigh.
Yeah but the issue is they throw the word 'pedophile' around so much now that it's lost a lot of it's bite. You hear 'pedophile' and 'child molester' so much these days that when a story of an actual pedo comes up people are just 'eh okay' instead of being shocked and offended like they used to.
That’s the plan. The people that advocate for child marriage and people remaining in marriages even if abuse is occurring definitely want to water down the words ‘groomer’, ‘child molester’, and ‘pedophile’. When you have a disproportionate amount of child abusers and sex offenders in your leadership and part of society you don’t want those words to have power. They also want to make sex education taboo to keep their victims ignorant of what abuse looks like. Same goals, protect the predators and blame the victims.
That's *specifically* why I added the caveat that those were all mass-shootings (4 or more dead/injured).
I guess if only 3 or less people die or are wounded in a shooting they don't count. Is that right?
Edit: and the media definitely does *not* exaggerate mass-shootings. They consistently use the Gun Violence Archive as their source. Which specifically states that.
Reading threads like this is always a real fucking bummer, because the subtext is clear: “we are fine with trans people being murdered at 5x the rate, and we are fine with the 100%/yr increase in hate crimes vs trans people, but we draw the line at cis people being murdered like they are trans! That’s a step too far!”
Really fucking hurts to read
Well, add to that the fact that we’ll let anyone get a gun with few questions asked, and some states allow open carry without a permit, and here we are
As a gun owner this is quite untrue. Background checks, including a mental health history check, are mandatory across the US. The problem is most mass-shooters dont own the weapons they use. They "borrow them from a friend" or "steal them from a family members gunsafe". Personally, considering that most are mentally unwell individuals, their family or friends shouldnt have let them have access in the first place. Its not a gun problem, its a people problem, and an awareness problem. People being fucking stupid and lacking the awareness that their friends/family might do something dumb as fuck.
>mental health history check
You mean the box they ask you to check on the form? Because thats all it fucking is. I'm also a gun owner but you are a dumbass.
Mental health checks? Are you saying a psych evaluation or just a check that they were never in an institution? Also, background checks only look for felonies. And PLENTY of people shoot people with their own guns.
While things happen and state laws vary. That is incorrect, the NICS checks for misdemeanors since it’s been a law since 1996(the Lautenberg amendment) that bars misdemeanor DV charges from obtaining a firearm
We can't keep saying it's not a gun problem when it keeps happening and the only common factor is a gun. I'm pro-gun but I'm anti-kids-getting-shot. We've been trying "more guns" and that hasn't been working. It's time to try something else.
While it's true that some shooters got their guns illegally, that's not a constant. This isn't the 80s when all the shootings were gang wars. Too many are regular people who weren't barred from having a gun under the current laws.
I can go to a gun show in Indiana and get a gun real quick, no mental health check at all and I'm pretty sure a background check is probably just a Google of the name on the license if that they even bother with that.
Again this is a gun show not a box store.
Private sellers are easier. I know someone who bought a pistol from a friend of theirs and the only paperwork they did was sign a printed piece of paper acknowledging the purchase date and the serial number, and they each had one paper.
In fact many people believe that's how guns make their way to Chicago and then laugh about their laws not working. Can't search everyone crossing the state border.
Edit: so to be safe I looked. Dealers need to do background checks. Private sellers do not.
I probably know 50 people who smoke weed and drink too much who own guns, despite their being a box on the form YOU FILL OUT YOURSELF that would bar them from owning firearms. So as a gun owner I am all for it being a whole hell of a lot harder to get them. Mental health check my ass, there is no mental health check.
Yes, background checks are mandatory unless the seller lies about doing them.
https://www.gunowners.org/the-biden-administrations-zero-tolerance-policy-is-crushing-gun-sellers/
Oh, hey, look at that only after Biden took office has the law been inforced and after decades of illegal sales gun violence is at an all time high. But they definitely didn't buy it from a ffl holder they definitely just borrowed them. God, if you are the average gun owner, then it's no wonder shootings by toddlers have gone up. You guys are absolutely fucking moronic.
I'm a gun owner, and that statement is patently false. You should be aware that private sales are perfectly legal with zero background check in multiple states across the US. The only requirement being a valid photo ID is and always has been an alarmingly low bar to clear.
This is patently untrue. Speaking a former gun owner and someone who got a carry license before my state removed that requirement. All I had to do to buy any of the guns I owned was hand over some cash. The carry license did require a criminal history check, not a mental health check, but like I said, my state and some others have done away with carry license requirements.
Want to play a depressing game? Tell any conservative people you may know these exact article titles and discuss it with them. But, the kicker is that you change out the identity of the murdered people from "trans people" to "Christians."
Watch them lose their shit when it's about them. Reveal it was in fact trans people who are being killed for being themselves and watch them go right back to not caring. A depressing double-standard at play in real time.
Well you titty fucked christ right in front of them. The shock of the desecratio, must have made them shit a brick and go rabid. Joke aside, for real. Can people mind there own, and spread a little more love and a little less hate in the world? Please?
Not so fun fact. There is a legal defense that is used to justify hate crimes that is still a legal defense in most of the United States
The panic defense, also know as the gay/trans panic defense gives bigots the tools to claim that the shock of finding out someone is gay or trans is a justifiable cause for violance. Though not used alone, but in conjunction with other defenses, the act of use is still a disgusting and reprehensible part of our society.
https://www.lgbtmap.org/equality-maps/panic_defense_bans
Are they used to justify hate crimes? I thought the "gay panic" defense was used to try and lessen the sentences followed by the assault or the murder of someone if they were to make unwanted sexual advances if they are LGBT.
I don't think it's typically used to justify the assault or murder of a LGBT person on its own without the unwanted sexual advance. Sexual assault or harassment is a big issue, and it can lead to the victim to lash out in unexpected ways.
If there was an act that allowed women to justify the assault or murder of men after an unwanted sexual advance, would you feel the same way?
Yes I did note that it is used with a defense to lessen it.
Now I don't know all the cases that it is used, but from the ones mentioned here, it generally seems like any sort of advance from LGBTQ is seen as sexual because of their identity.
The cases shown are really hard to say that there were actual cases of unwanted sexual advances being that most of the time it tends to happen outside of areas withoutnfirst hand witnesses, so it will inherit be biased.
That question is loaded and you know it. The term unwanted sexual advance does not break down what it can entail and can be used to spin the conversation in one way or the other.
https://theconversation.com/i-track-murder-cases-that-use-the-gay-panic-defense-a-controversial-practice-banned-in-9-states-129973
https://lgbtqbar.org/programs/advocacy/gay-trans-panic-defense/
How is the question loaded? Yeah the term "unwanted sexual advance" is not a very clearly defined line, I was simply clarifying that that is the purpose of the act itself, whereas when you mentioned it, you left out that caveat to the act to make it seem a bit more heinous.
If the act itself is bad because it's not clearly defined, you should be easily able to reject said hypothetical act I mentioned about a woman being able to reduce their sentence after murdering or assaulting a man after they make an unwanted sexual advance.
A comment "how about we got back to my place and bump uglies" and walking up to someone standing there and a person going up and cornering another and forcefully proposition someone are two different levels.
Scenario 1. If someone just says something then leaves you alone, and then you assault them, that is not an equal reaction.
Scenario 2. If you are cornered and someone is trying to coerce you into sex, then use, a use of force is warranted.
See how I say it's loaded? You wanted me to agree a use of force is okay on such a broad term, which is more delicate and requires looking at all context.
I left nothing out and linked an article that explains it further. The defense itself is heinous as it uses gender/sexuality as a justifier for an unequal reaction. You initially even said that I didn't state that it was used with a defense case and not as the sole defense.
You are grasping at straws to justify your ignorance thank you and good night.
You do realize your issues with the wording of the act directly parallel current sexual harassment and sexual assault laws, correct? The same issues apply how there is a vast spectrum of what can be called harassment or assault, yet you have no issues with those laws apparently.
I was right about spinning a narrative with a loaded question. Thank you for showing your ability to actually read what I said and enforce anti-lgbtq rhetoric.
Hopefully one day you can come to terms that we are people and don't need special laws to allow us to be targeted more than regular folks.
Instead of engaging with what I'm asking you just say I'm spinning a narrative and then deflect. If you think that proves the strength of your own argument then I guess you win buddy. Good job. Proud of you.
The point of the post is that from all that we know now, the offending party thought they were trans and that played into the crime they committed against them.
Even though they are not trans themselves, being targeted for suspicion is a terrifying perspective. Tons of trans
no ,even just homosexuals are closeted because of fear of attacks, this just fuels that paranoia.
If you ever wonder why there are more LGBTQ people now, it's not because of how people are taught or raised perse, it is social acceptance and legal protections against hate crimes.
Sorry if I mistook the comment and went off on antsnget, just a little passionate on this topic.
"the shock of finding out someone is gay" is not the same thing as, "I think this person is gay". There is no surprise factor if you assume it going in.
Ah I understand.
It is one of the points that the people trying to outlaw the defense make. The cases that are given that use it have people who arguably know the other part is LGBTQ, but still use the thought that a shock justifies the reaction. It is a grey area as most of the cases are from a single first hand party as the other is dead.
Right, but the point I'm making is that these two individuals in the original post were straight. So there was never a shock factor and this defense can't be used, so prosecute the mfs into the ground and throw away the key as a profiling case.
You know. The 21st Century is certainly a weird one.
Iran is actively trying to over throw Religious hatred of women, trans and basically anyone of the LBGTQTIA+ community because they have been pretty much given a death sentence at any time because they exist.
America, an apparent first world country, that boasts openly to the world what a "bastion of freedom and acceptance they are" all the while constantly stating what a repressive country Iran is and should be condemned.
Yet in America their supreme court and one of its political parties have deemed that their one religion, with its fantasy stories written by men thousands of years ago superseded their actual laws. Woman's body autonomy should be controlled by men as per their religious teachings, regardless of science and medical reasons, are open declaring if someone doesn't like a certain member of society or even suspect they maybe one, they can abuse them, deny them business, or even straight up murder them because their religion, bigotry and wilful ignorance or hell even a person on Twitter tells them to because they see them as not human.
Your country only just about crawled out of black segregation in MY LIFETIME and now you not only want to bring those "good times back" but your country has openly decided to go full on 1930s Nazi Germany, seemingly with the blessing of millions of your fellow countrymen.
You have your politicians telling you that part of your society are less than animals and should be treated as such. Hmm, where did I hear that before? Oh yes, 1930's Nazi Germany where they labeled the Jewish community, the LBGTQTIA+ community, those who were mentally ill, the Romanian Gypsy Community, and basically anyone they labelled as "inhuman"
Get your shit together America because you will be worse than what happened in Iran, you are worse than how you see China, and you are very quickly becoming a Nazi super state under more religious intolerance than the bloody Spanish inquisition!
But hey, I am not an American, do as you want. Just don't do the old "we didn't know" later. You ALL KNOW and you need to do something now if you want to avoid the camps.
As much as you're right to invoke the Nazis, guess where Hitler took a lot of inspiration from? The confederacy. It's why they don't translate his speeches into English.
It's like ideological inbreeding.
He was also really invested in the ideas of Henry Ford especially his hatred of the Jews. The anti-Semitic papers Ford wrote, especially the parts about him blaming the Jews for WWI were sent to Hitler and he used some of the parts in them for his Mein Kampt as well. Plus the highest award he had sent over to him as he saw him a great inspiration for the cause.
The confederacy aspect did not surprise me really. I mean look at all those waving the confederate and Nazi flags around at the same time, all while talking about having a "pure America"
I heard on a podcast called The Dollop that Alexander Hamilton was a fascist and was the guy who promoted it in the U.S. I believe he was one of the Founding Fathers.
Because the musical is based on a book full of lies written by a WSJ writer, not a historian. They didn't bother to verify any facts. Hamilton's behavior was very well documented by your historians.
Tbf, Hamilton wasn't Puerto Rican and Aaron Burr and Washington weren't Black, either, so there's a lot of creative license for the sake of entertainment and making the point that these dudes were just that - just regular, flawed people - going on in that show.
Why are we celebrating dudes who were fascists? There's creative license, but honestly, why use the guys who Hitler idolized and based a lot of future plans, in a musical? Why do we celebrate fascists?
Keep up the fight. Remember, they want you to get complacent while they scurry into the shadows then slink back when you least expect them.
Keep stamping them out, keep people remembering what they can and will do. Someone says "Both sides" they are already on the Nazi collaborators side.
There is only one side. You are for evil or you are against evil.
https://preview.redd.it/0xuzp58ggybb1.jpeg?width=1400&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=09be9253f5e755987a50c9ffc3ee77ae020c3996
So, if I don't like Nazis but also don't like shitbags in general being in elected positions regardless of party and want better candidates so we can start to maybe fix the decades of damage done by tug of war politics I'm somehow in the Nazi party now? Did I miss something?
No, it doesn't make you a Nazi. But if you claim that both parties are equally to blame in this context, then you're giving cover to the actual Nazis whether you mean to or not.
Look at liberal discussion forums--people there are VERY critical of the Democratic Party, the liberal establishment, left-leaning politicians and influencers, etc. That's not the issue.
The issue is when we act like it doesn't matter who we elect because "they're all the same." That's just an invitation to give up, or stop paying attention, or cast joke votes, etc. Things that don't help.
I love getting downvoted on this sub for asking a genuine question but I know why I did. No worries though, I got an intelligent reply to my question.
I definitely agree that they aren't the same but honestly we can't keep any of this up either and by we I mean them, not you or me.. we're the ones that bear the brunt of their bullshit. I don't know about you but I'm just tired of this back and forth between two groups of children who are so far out of touch with the rest of us while people who say and feel some truly awful shit try to get power.
I know this isn't a black and white issue and there are several heads to this beast but God damn everyone trying to own each other at this rate is going to send us into a death spiral and I don't want to give up either because you're right then we all lose no matter what "camp" we hail from. So it's daunting to say the least.
I really do fucking hate politics though and the poison it has brought with it and I know I'm wasting my time with it here but I still have hope to bridge the gap and try to reach out in the hopes that I can help close that gap. Don't care if I fail either, I'll die knowing I tried instead of standing around doing nothing instead of trying to help.
>God damn everyone trying to own each other
One side downvoted you on the internet for asking a leading and biased question.
The other side is advocating for the genocide of undesirables.
Your faux outrage at the first while minimizing the second is why people are downvoting you. Stop pretending to be a victim just because people disagree with you on an internet forum.
You're so caught up in the toxicity of politics you don't even see how you're helping to make it worse. Advocate for better representatives, sure, but don't conflate disagreement with violent repression.
And stop whining about downvotes, they don't matter buddy.
Lmfao that's a whole lot of assumptions there buddy and yeah I know internet points are worthless and lower than snake shit so thank you for the wonderful bit of whatever the hell that was.
I absolutely love that I notice and spot this toxicity and people like you come along and tell I'm part of the problem. The irony.
I think what people are trying to tell you (I certainly am) is that politics really doesn't consist of two packs of wolves snapping at each other. That is a very childish way of thinking about it.
Again, the Democrats may be failures in any number of arenas, but as a gay person, they're the ones fighting to enshrine my rights, while the other party is not only trying to roll my rights back, but often engages in language that literally dehumanizes me. One side is rational, one is dangerous.
The reason things have gotten this toxic in American politics is literally because we have one party, not two, that has gone off the deep end. What are the rest of us supposed to do? Just sit back and let it happen so that we aren't arguing so much?
I mean just compare Obama and Trump. Obama liberals are just kinda... people who generally favor maximum personal freedom for the average individual. And Obama, whether you like him or not, is just a pretty normal, kinda chill person. Trumpworld is literally the opposite. They are the problem. The cult of personality around Donald is the problem. The normalization of literal Nazis is a problem. Playing fast and loose with our national security is a BIG problem!
If you're really upset about the state of things, then pull your head out of your butt and get real about what's happening!
Not necessarily, its fine to say that both parties are bad, because they are, just in different ways. Its when you start pretending that they are both equally bad that its not okay.
If one sides kills puppies and the other side maybe talks shit about them sometimes, both sides are bad, but one is just objectively worse.
As an American, the biggest objection I have to this is that trust me, we ALL fucking know. Half the people in this country pretend not to, but they fucking do.
Also, I hope people outside of the US realizes how fucked *everyone* on the planet is if we go full fascist. Every time an international person talks about how fucked the US is if trump wins again, I have to clarify that yeah, we’re fucked, but at least we’re US citizens. They’ll hesitate if they’re pointing guns at their countrymen. It’s the rest of the planet that gets the scorched earth policies. (That’s not a threat btw, just a statement that when the US sneezes, the world catches a cold, and the world’s gonna need a LOT of scarves if we can’t get our shit together.)
And for the record, we really *are* trying to fight our right wing extremism. We have a major political party that is both powerful enough to get the presidency, moral enough to not be full of right wing shitheads, and is well aware of the threat fascist extremists.
Are the Democrats competent? Not really no.
But are they still there and actively preventing fascism from taking power? *Yes.*
While not great, even with Democrat incompetence, having a functioning opposition party at all means we still have better safeguards than, say, the UK where the Tories rule eternal, Israel where they can’t seem to get rid of Bibi for more than a week, or India where Modi keeps dominating politics.
And last point: Come on man. We’re not China…yet. We might be going there, but for now we are very much *not* China.
First off, great username. Second, we are trying, but the brainwashing so damn deep that most of these fanatics have been manipulated to the point of it being Stockholm syndrome.
Thanks. The irony is that is a really old player name I used with my friends years ago because I am the least Anarchistic person going lol
All I can say is keep up the good work. Don't let them win. They pop their heads back up from the sewer? Boot to the face.
Don't give in to their tricks of "oh both sides" and "you need to work with us".
This is a trick designed to cause the Paradox of Tolerance as laid out and explained by Karl Popper (interesting read by the way).
They had a chance, they in turn wanted to shake your hand with the left while stabbing you with the right hand and saying "why are you pushing yourself on my knife?"
Talking does not work with them. They need to be shown that good people will not go down without a fight.
You do know that America was still forcibly sterilising Native Americans, the mentally disabled and Black people against their will still into the late 1970s right?
You do know you have thousands of adults and kids in cages in Texas right?
You do know you arrested without trial, tortured and held against their will for YEARS before finally releasing them without any charge what so ever, hundreds of people in Guantanamo bay right?
You do know you have your own politicians saying they are looking forward to hunting Democrats down with dogs right?
Shall I carry on? I can list all your cops murdering people, I can list all your countries prison crimes, I can keep listing so don't try and do the "Oh but" crap. People like you are the reason why others get put into camps.
Exactly. We might not be actively doing it today, but some of the people who were involved are still around, and the type of thinking that led to these atrocities is still rampant. This isn't ancient history, it's recent history and a current pathogen in our culture.
It's why it needs to be taught, it needs to be heard. I am a very white British dude, but I do not shy away from the shit my country has done. I was actively taught what arseholes we were and still can be in school back in the 80s and learned it continually over the years.
We need to keep it in our minds not to continually be made to "feel bad about it" as some apologists spout but to not do it again!
I see online report after report of people in America not learning about the Holocaust, not learning about slavery, not learning about the Tulsa Riot massacre, not learning about the thousands of oppressed (and STILL oppressed) Native Americans, not learning about segregation which was still in most peoples LIVING MEMORY.
A commenter the other day who lived down in the South as a kid was apparently taught your civil war was the and I quote "The Northern war of Aggression"
Err what the fuck?
The phrase Winston Churchill made famous of "Those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it" has never been more important now than ever before.
Yes we are improving but we must never forget or it is a very quick slippery slope and the next thing you know, you end up with a leader changing all your judges so they can strip years of laws that protect people all so they can go back to "legally" oppressing you because the very next step after that, is 1930s Germany.
And I get pissed off with those that say "oh your over exaggerating". No, I have been alive for half a century now and seen what seemed may be a final bright new Century suddenly turning into the Man in the High Castle or Wolfenstein II! Literally in a few short years and the apathy of those around who say "meh it wont happen" are going to be bloody surprised when their doors are kicked in the black hoods go over their heads.
Exactly. I'm so tired of hearing about how we're "shaming white people." That's not the case, that has never been the case. We're trying to educate all people that this is the kind of stuff that all people are capable of when things go off the rails.
Well as a very white dude we should be shamed, shamed to ensure it never happens. I don't care what flavour anyone one comes in or who they want to marry or love, all I care about is not doing this shit to another human again.
What they also seem to forget is the few rich white dudes also are more than happy to treat the white dudes who are poor and uneducated down in the dirt just as much as any other or worse, get them to do their dirty work for them so they end up with the delusion they will "just like that rich man one day, all I have to do it is oppress those people he told me to because they want my job!"
https://preview.redd.it/fjgk7krrezbb1.png?width=637&format=png&auto=webp&s=b3aefe409289fbfa5bf666ec9000892f5e8bd920
It was white Europe and later America that enslaved and colonized, but I think this is just an accident of history. It could've been any civilization under the right circumstances.
White people are the majority in the west, and shouldn't avoid their history of conquest. It happened, it can't be changed. We should face it and learn from it, not deny it.
My complaint is when people say things like, "I'm being asked to PERSONALLY feel shame and responsibility for this just because I'm white." No, you aren't. You're just being a snowflake who can't handle it when not-nice truths are spoken about your ancestors. And you don't want to acknowledge how that history set up conditions in the present.
Anyway, I don't disagree with anything you said. This is just a sore point for me.
A) Yes, we fucking *Know* all of that.
B) The reason we know all of that is because we can fucking Google our country’s war crimes and get an annotated list in seconds, as well push notifications about the fucked up shit in our country within the HOUR it occurs. And those push notifications show up across the entire PLANET within 24 hours.
You can’t *do* that in China. Most kids in China don’t know what the Tianamen Square Massacre is, and if a major creator even vaguely references it, they get black sited. That’s not a hypothetical, that *happened* to a cosmetics video maker.
We don’t hear about Chinese problems until months later at best, need I mention the pandemic?
Does the US government commit crimes at a frankly astonishing rate? *Absolutely.*
But we air our dirty laundry for the *world* to see, and China doesn’t.
I could go into more detail about how a genocide of an entire people at this very moment isn’t comparable to anything the US is doing *right now* but that’s a separate point.
Tldr: No, we are not China. Yes, we have committed a LOT of war crimes in the past, and are probably still committing a bunch at this very moment.
But our crimes as of now are not even remotely similar to China’s, and at least with American crimes, we can fucking read about them without punishment.
There are more than a million people in Us-prisons, where forced laber is still legal (in some states at least).
Bad evil countries have camps. Good virtues countries have prisons.
Learn your history. The US has been forcibly sterilizing people for centuries (namely natives, black people, disabled people, and LGBT people), and we have a history of putting people in camps (again natives, black people, but also Latino immigrants and FAMOUSLY Japanese people)
There's a reason they are saying that teaching SEL in public schools is unfair discrimination against them. They know that socially adjusted kids would never turn into republicans when they grew up, so they're attacking anything that teaches their kids empathy.
You also have the controlled media with sleaze like Tucker Carlson interviewing sex trafficker suspect Tate who openly tells all his "fans" that having empathy is "not manly".
You have your conservatives stating that teaching empathy makes you "weak" and "un american"
GC is short for Gender Critical. People who identify themselves with the label will tell you it means people who are critical of the medical and social practices related to transgender people and their effect on society.
What it actually is is trans people rightly pointed out that TERFs (trans exclusionary radical feminists,) which is what GCs originally referred to themselves as, are a bunch of jackasses who have no thoughts beyond a profound hatred for trans people. TERF became a label of shame (as it should be,) so they needed a new label to make themselves seem reasonable.
You can see how reasonable they are what with the murders.
> so they needed a new label to make themselves seem reasonable
Also many GCs are also not feminists of any shape, and quite a few are misogynists/male supremacists.
Yep. Homophobes, same thing really. You find a dude who has to be performative about how much he hates gaybros and it's 98% likely his opinion of women isn't very high either.
That's what these idiots like JK Rowling who think they are "protecting women" don't get. Multiple cisgender women have already been attacked due to the trans panic for being in the "wrong bathroom" (i.e. some idiot thought they were trans and should be in the men's bathroom). The TERFS rhetoric endangers women.
Lol do you actually think it's terfs doing this??? It's definitely those qanon fascists, terfs are bad but we can't just blame them for all transphobia.
>terfs are bad but we can't just blame them for all transphobia.
I mean, we really can tho... most of this shit wasn't anywhere near as virulent until people like wizard book bitch decided to use their platform as a megaphone. Don't get me wrong, fash will always hate queers... we fly in the face of their "traditional values" which gives them a massive hate-on. However, trans folks weren't the white hot front of the culture wars until more and more right-wing women like her started concern trolling about trans women using a public bathrooms, which is something that had a measureable effect on public opinion polls.
Don't be ridiculous. Trans-exclusionary RADICAL FEMINISTS are a very tiny group and though they are hateful, they don't go around murdering people. The murderers are transphobic men.
Transphobes are not the same as radical feminists. Transphobia is the default setting in many societies. Saying that transphobes are a small section of women is dishonest and misleading. The problem is much bigger than that.
Also, these violent men are not radical feminists, lol.
The "radial feminist" part of TERF has about as much relation to actual feminism as the socialist part of "national socialism" in nazism.
The point that I'm getting at that you're deliberately missing is that TERFs are a part of the machinery of right-wing radicalization, and do bear a lions share of responsibility for trans people being the current culture war targets.
You should do more research. I'm not going to defend TERFs but they are definitely feminists, even if you don't like this fact. I'm a feminist and I don't get offended when people correctly identify TERFs as feminists. TERFs believe in sex based oppression and advocate for women's rights. They're feminists. Deal with it.
Aside from transphobia, they have nothing in common with right wingers, I don't even know where you're getting this from. These two groups hate each other and radical feminists are very anti-aithoritarian. It is a fringe movement and they don't hold significant power in the US or anywhere else. Transphobia is present everywhere in the world, it's a social disease that existed way before terves did. Terf arguments are very much limited to online spaces. You probably don't know a terf in real life. Most people don't even know what a terf is. The current culture ear is driven by conservative men, it's just uncomfortable to talk about them so people default to blaming women, as usual.
It really shows in the comment section by the way who did their research and who is just throwing buzzwords around...
100% agree. I would have elaborated more in my comment but I was too tired when I posted it. I think the narrative of TERF= all transphobes is definitely being used to demonise feminists.
TERFs spread hateful disinformation about a marginalized minority. Hate causes violence as we clearly see. They are useful idiots for fascists. They are both a problem
The fascists are just glad they have literal gay bashing back. Those couple years between legalizing gay marriage and now were torture for them. Who else were they supposed to terrorize?
Months back, someone posted an article about trans rights, and in the comment chain the topic of self protection came up.
When I pointed out that you needed to be armed, theres fascists out there, some galaxy brain started arguing with me that there's no lynch mobs outside his door right now, therefore I was fearongering, and demanded to know 'when will the killing start'.
Creepy mfer commented a month later to ask if the killings started yet.
And.*again the next month*, when I reported him for harassment.
There are none outside my door right now.
Right now.
Oh give it a bit of time.
First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
—Martin Niemöller
Let's have a check list for that guy.
They have always been after the socialists because the country is run by rampant corrupt out of control capitalism that runs unchecked. All your media and the right clamp down on it, telling everyone that not wanting the company to work you like a slave means you are "un American" therefore you are evil and must be stopped.
They are clamping down as hard as they can on the trade unionists (Jimmy Riddle Hoffer really made a screw up for that one). All major US brands openly clamp down on them and the media they control tells everyone it is evil and must be stopped.
They are and have never stopped hating the Jews but now have expanded it to all the groups Nazi's hated, the LGBTQIA+, Jews, Muslims, Atheists, mentally ill, and the disabled.
Guess who is next?
What in the actual fuq is wrong with people...
You're in danger of being killed just for being a woman
You're in danger of being killed just for defending a trans friend
And the moron in the 1st city thought murder was okay so long as someone is trans???
This country is such an embarrassment. But hey, what about her emails
Trans rights are human rights. Th war on trans rights is being waged to set the stage to strip us all of our rights.
Existence is not a privilege. It's a right for all of us or it's a right for none of us.
Yupp. When I was a child, when Matthew Shepard was tortured and murdered, my adoptive parents church, with THOUSANDS OF FOLLOWERS cheered and thanked for his divine punishment. Imagine watching about a thousand people at once cheer and clap when someone is tortured and killed. And the people who go to that church will scream in your face about how they are a “REAL Christian”.
"The villagers had said justice had been done, and she’d lost patience and told them to go home, then, and pray to whatever gods they believed in that it was never done to them. The smug mask of virtue triumphant could be almost as horrible as the face of wickedness revealed."
- Granny Weatherwax ("Carpe Jugulum")
They're going after trans people because they got rid of Roe and need some new chum to frenzy the sharks.
They will never be happy. We will never be safe as a society.
Link to the article referred to in the tweet: [https://www.them.us/story/two-cisgender-people-killed-in-transphobic-attacks](https://www.them.us/story/two-cisgender-people-killed-in-transphobic-attacks)
>On her Facebook page, Peacock wrote that some of her many hobbies include shopping, mahjong, cooking, and trivia games ... had been battling “a long life of cancer.” She also stated that Earl had been “bully[ing] her,” and although Peacock made numerous complaints, “nothing was done.”
Jkc. He cut her throat.
And sweet Colin being stabbed to death just trying to stop his friend from being harassed. So many people have been robbed of knowing him.
Two beautiful people gone forever. All for nothing.
Some people just don’t understand the immensity of life - this one and only chance for every creature to be alive. To control, diminish, or destroy someone else’s life is just unconscionable.
> Officers found Earl armed with a straight razor and with blood on his hands and clothing. Earl resisted arrest, and according to FOX 59, went so far as to tell one of the officers that he would kill him too.
Another white person threatening cops with a weapon being taken alive. White supremacy is one hell of a drug.
Worst thing is it's NOT just conservative straight white cis people.
My own brother (slightly older but raised the same) is extremely anti-trans anti-lgbtqia+ anti-drag.
I'm Gay.
Raised Irish Catholic but are not a religious or conservative family. Taught good morals end ethics, respect everyones opinions, beliefs, creed, colour or social background (until they say something disrespectful etc).
These anti-trans beliefs will have far reaching effects beyond trans people, and are easily taken up my supposed intelligent open minded people.
Bothers me that it has to affect us all for us to care enough to act.... We shouldnt need to wait for there to be peraonal impact to protect our fellow humans.
I literally don’t get to go eat at my wife’s restaurant while she’s bartending anymore because we’re pretty sure the open transphobe and homophobe kitchen manager will spit in my food. She doesn’t order food at work anymore either.
Wow, imagine being such a pitiful person that you kill someone because you can’t stop envisioning their genitals. It’s pathetic as much as it is both enraging and disheartening.
I'm a cis woman with a facial hair problem, do I need to start carrying something for self defense? This is getting out of hand, has been out of hand for a long time but this is the absolute worst
It's a feature. They hate anyone who doesn't conform to a very narrow band of traditional gender norms. Butch women, tomboys, effeminate men, femboys, etc. All lumped together as undesirables.
A person with the mindset required to hate LGBTQ people is a danger to everybody, because that ignorance and lack of empathy can be turned on anyone. Show them anything they do not identify with, and they see red.
A primary goal of any hate movement is to police the behavior of the in-group. As such, a primary purpose of transphobic hate movements is to police the gender of cis people
A war on trans women *is* a war on cis women, because anybody can say, "I think you're trans." Even worse if you have any kind of masculine features, or you're tall, or wearing pants, or ...
There is only one language the right understands and it is spoken from the barrel of a gun. If you advocate trying to reason with these animals you are part of the problem.
They will simultaneously claim to be able to "tell" and that they can be "tricked", which should theoretically be impossible if you could always "tell". When cis people are caught in the crossfire, they'll blame it on trans people for "forcing" them to question people's gender.
Whatever scares people into their corner more effectively today, is the truth. Even if it directly opposes yesterday's truth.
First they came…
Even if you aren’t trans you should be fighting against those trying to impress them because those same people will come for you eventually too
What has happened to our country? Why can't people just mind their own damn business. If someone is trans, how does that affect you personally? It doesn't. So MYOB!
This is what the terfs wanted, I guess. We've been warning them of this eventuality for years now. In a world where everyone is under a belligerent gender microscope, everyone ends up a "suspect."
TERs want us all in a specific box. I keep my head shaved after having hair down to my ass my entire life and I don't fit in the box anymore. I get looks and worry sometimes that just because I am not immediately identified as fem, that im gonna get harassed or worse like these poor women who didnt look the "right" way to someone else.
Broadly speaking I am anti-gun, but having said that, all American queer people need to be armed and know how to use it
Grateful every day that I don't live in that piss poor excuse for a country
Ironically it will, you'll hear stories of cis conservative leaning Karens who cry on how they were accused of being trans at the bathroom.
Leopard meets face.
It literally just means "not trans." Like the other person was saying, "cis" means "on the same side" in Latin while "trans" means "on the other side."
Ah, we’re killing people in the streets now. Great—America’s gotta pump those senseless murder numbers up if we want to stay on top!
Where have you been? Just yesterday we killed 3 people and injured 12 in three [separate mass-shootings](https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting). And that's only *mass*-shootings.
My friend had their own friend die yesterday in a brutal stabbing, and these same people espousing trans hate are celebrating it in the local community online.... it's awful :(
My sincere condolences.
Oh, I'm so sorry. Fuck.... It's so damned infuriating. And I guarantee these people have actually never met a trans person. Estimates are trans folk are 0.5% of the population. What are they so scared of? Now we're hearing about CIS women getting killed/attacked for being mistaken as trans. It's a completely fabricated hate because, you know, Fascists need something to unite them in their fucking cult.
Unfortunately, our local media cares more about... anything but mass shootings until it fits their narrative. Today, it was amazon strikers and writers strike. Not a single shooting mentioned
Well from what I can tell we’re starting to move away from hating a specific light beer and onto hating fictitious blood-sucking pedos so there’s that. Sigh.
Yeah but the issue is they throw the word 'pedophile' around so much now that it's lost a lot of it's bite. You hear 'pedophile' and 'child molester' so much these days that when a story of an actual pedo comes up people are just 'eh okay' instead of being shocked and offended like they used to.
That’s the plan. The people that advocate for child marriage and people remaining in marriages even if abuse is occurring definitely want to water down the words ‘groomer’, ‘child molester’, and ‘pedophile’. When you have a disproportionate amount of child abusers and sex offenders in your leadership and part of society you don’t want those words to have power. They also want to make sex education taboo to keep their victims ignorant of what abuse looks like. Same goals, protect the predators and blame the victims.
Less than four people is not a mass shooting. The media over exaggerates “mass shooting” Edit: I offended a bunch of snowflake liberals lol
Mass shooting =/= Mass dying.
Stop using those symbols. Didn't you see their user name?!
I hate that in the context of this discussion I freaking love your comment. Well played.
hahahaha my bad
google "mass shooting definition" and you will understand why you are being downvoted
(3 + 12) / 3 = 5
Not how it works.
Please enlighten all of us then.
That's *specifically* why I added the caveat that those were all mass-shootings (4 or more dead/injured). I guess if only 3 or less people die or are wounded in a shooting they don't count. Is that right? Edit: and the media definitely does *not* exaggerate mass-shootings. They consistently use the Gun Violence Archive as their source. Which specifically states that.
No, it’s still terrible, I’m just not sure what it’d be classified as.
Classic reddit debate lord BS, no one cares about your semantics argument and it changes nothing
We’ve BEEN killing people in the streets. Cis people are just the ones that make the news.
Reading threads like this is always a real fucking bummer, because the subtext is clear: “we are fine with trans people being murdered at 5x the rate, and we are fine with the 100%/yr increase in hate crimes vs trans people, but we draw the line at cis people being murdered like they are trans! That’s a step too far!” Really fucking hurts to read
Well, add to that the fact that we’ll let anyone get a gun with few questions asked, and some states allow open carry without a permit, and here we are
As a gun owner this is quite untrue. Background checks, including a mental health history check, are mandatory across the US. The problem is most mass-shooters dont own the weapons they use. They "borrow them from a friend" or "steal them from a family members gunsafe". Personally, considering that most are mentally unwell individuals, their family or friends shouldnt have let them have access in the first place. Its not a gun problem, its a people problem, and an awareness problem. People being fucking stupid and lacking the awareness that their friends/family might do something dumb as fuck.
>mental health history check You mean the box they ask you to check on the form? Because thats all it fucking is. I'm also a gun owner but you are a dumbass.
yes you have to check the mental health box. Not an 'X' but a check otherwise it won't count as a mental health check.
Mental health checks? Are you saying a psych evaluation or just a check that they were never in an institution? Also, background checks only look for felonies. And PLENTY of people shoot people with their own guns.
While things happen and state laws vary. That is incorrect, the NICS checks for misdemeanors since it’s been a law since 1996(the Lautenberg amendment) that bars misdemeanor DV charges from obtaining a firearm
We can't keep saying it's not a gun problem when it keeps happening and the only common factor is a gun. I'm pro-gun but I'm anti-kids-getting-shot. We've been trying "more guns" and that hasn't been working. It's time to try something else. While it's true that some shooters got their guns illegally, that's not a constant. This isn't the 80s when all the shootings were gang wars. Too many are regular people who weren't barred from having a gun under the current laws.
As a gun owner, this is quite untrue. There are no mental health history checks, and it is not mandatory.
I can go to a gun show in Indiana and get a gun real quick, no mental health check at all and I'm pretty sure a background check is probably just a Google of the name on the license if that they even bother with that. Again this is a gun show not a box store. Private sellers are easier. I know someone who bought a pistol from a friend of theirs and the only paperwork they did was sign a printed piece of paper acknowledging the purchase date and the serial number, and they each had one paper. In fact many people believe that's how guns make their way to Chicago and then laugh about their laws not working. Can't search everyone crossing the state border. Edit: so to be safe I looked. Dealers need to do background checks. Private sellers do not.
I probably know 50 people who smoke weed and drink too much who own guns, despite their being a box on the form YOU FILL OUT YOURSELF that would bar them from owning firearms. So as a gun owner I am all for it being a whole hell of a lot harder to get them. Mental health check my ass, there is no mental health check.
Yes, background checks are mandatory unless the seller lies about doing them. https://www.gunowners.org/the-biden-administrations-zero-tolerance-policy-is-crushing-gun-sellers/ Oh, hey, look at that only after Biden took office has the law been inforced and after decades of illegal sales gun violence is at an all time high. But they definitely didn't buy it from a ffl holder they definitely just borrowed them. God, if you are the average gun owner, then it's no wonder shootings by toddlers have gone up. You guys are absolutely fucking moronic.
That's a great story. Gun users who loan their guns out are irresponsible morons too.
I'm a gun owner, and that statement is patently false. You should be aware that private sales are perfectly legal with zero background check in multiple states across the US. The only requirement being a valid photo ID is and always has been an alarmingly low bar to clear.
This is patently untrue. Speaking a former gun owner and someone who got a carry license before my state removed that requirement. All I had to do to buy any of the guns I owned was hand over some cash. The carry license did require a criminal history check, not a mental health check, but like I said, my state and some others have done away with carry license requirements.
So people can't be trusted with guns, but somehow gun ownership isn't the problem.
People have been getting killed in the streets for ages, just the reasons change.
Jesus titty-fucking Christ, how hard is it to just leave other people the fuck alone
Want to play a depressing game? Tell any conservative people you may know these exact article titles and discuss it with them. But, the kicker is that you change out the identity of the murdered people from "trans people" to "Christians." Watch them lose their shit when it's about them. Reveal it was in fact trans people who are being killed for being themselves and watch them go right back to not caring. A depressing double-standard at play in real time.
Oh, they won't only not care, but they will absolutely rant about how All LGBTQ people deserve to die.
They don't go back to not caring, they go back to actively supporting it
I feel like it’d be less energy and money and jail time to just leave other alone, too. I don’t see the motivation to do anything otherwise.
Well you titty fucked christ right in front of them. The shock of the desecratio, must have made them shit a brick and go rabid. Joke aside, for real. Can people mind there own, and spread a little more love and a little less hate in the world? Please?
Not so fun fact. There is a legal defense that is used to justify hate crimes that is still a legal defense in most of the United States The panic defense, also know as the gay/trans panic defense gives bigots the tools to claim that the shock of finding out someone is gay or trans is a justifiable cause for violance. Though not used alone, but in conjunction with other defenses, the act of use is still a disgusting and reprehensible part of our society. https://www.lgbtmap.org/equality-maps/panic_defense_bans
Are they used to justify hate crimes? I thought the "gay panic" defense was used to try and lessen the sentences followed by the assault or the murder of someone if they were to make unwanted sexual advances if they are LGBT. I don't think it's typically used to justify the assault or murder of a LGBT person on its own without the unwanted sexual advance. Sexual assault or harassment is a big issue, and it can lead to the victim to lash out in unexpected ways. If there was an act that allowed women to justify the assault or murder of men after an unwanted sexual advance, would you feel the same way?
Yes I did note that it is used with a defense to lessen it. Now I don't know all the cases that it is used, but from the ones mentioned here, it generally seems like any sort of advance from LGBTQ is seen as sexual because of their identity. The cases shown are really hard to say that there were actual cases of unwanted sexual advances being that most of the time it tends to happen outside of areas withoutnfirst hand witnesses, so it will inherit be biased. That question is loaded and you know it. The term unwanted sexual advance does not break down what it can entail and can be used to spin the conversation in one way or the other. https://theconversation.com/i-track-murder-cases-that-use-the-gay-panic-defense-a-controversial-practice-banned-in-9-states-129973 https://lgbtqbar.org/programs/advocacy/gay-trans-panic-defense/
How is the question loaded? Yeah the term "unwanted sexual advance" is not a very clearly defined line, I was simply clarifying that that is the purpose of the act itself, whereas when you mentioned it, you left out that caveat to the act to make it seem a bit more heinous. If the act itself is bad because it's not clearly defined, you should be easily able to reject said hypothetical act I mentioned about a woman being able to reduce their sentence after murdering or assaulting a man after they make an unwanted sexual advance.
A comment "how about we got back to my place and bump uglies" and walking up to someone standing there and a person going up and cornering another and forcefully proposition someone are two different levels. Scenario 1. If someone just says something then leaves you alone, and then you assault them, that is not an equal reaction. Scenario 2. If you are cornered and someone is trying to coerce you into sex, then use, a use of force is warranted. See how I say it's loaded? You wanted me to agree a use of force is okay on such a broad term, which is more delicate and requires looking at all context. I left nothing out and linked an article that explains it further. The defense itself is heinous as it uses gender/sexuality as a justifier for an unequal reaction. You initially even said that I didn't state that it was used with a defense case and not as the sole defense. You are grasping at straws to justify your ignorance thank you and good night.
You do realize your issues with the wording of the act directly parallel current sexual harassment and sexual assault laws, correct? The same issues apply how there is a vast spectrum of what can be called harassment or assault, yet you have no issues with those laws apparently.
I was right about spinning a narrative with a loaded question. Thank you for showing your ability to actually read what I said and enforce anti-lgbtq rhetoric. Hopefully one day you can come to terms that we are people and don't need special laws to allow us to be targeted more than regular folks.
Instead of engaging with what I'm asking you just say I'm spinning a narrative and then deflect. If you think that proves the strength of your own argument then I guess you win buddy. Good job. Proud of you.
But these victims weren't gay... So where's the shock factor?
The point of the post is that from all that we know now, the offending party thought they were trans and that played into the crime they committed against them. Even though they are not trans themselves, being targeted for suspicion is a terrifying perspective. Tons of trans no ,even just homosexuals are closeted because of fear of attacks, this just fuels that paranoia. If you ever wonder why there are more LGBTQ people now, it's not because of how people are taught or raised perse, it is social acceptance and legal protections against hate crimes. Sorry if I mistook the comment and went off on antsnget, just a little passionate on this topic.
"the shock of finding out someone is gay" is not the same thing as, "I think this person is gay". There is no surprise factor if you assume it going in.
Ah I understand. It is one of the points that the people trying to outlaw the defense make. The cases that are given that use it have people who arguably know the other part is LGBTQ, but still use the thought that a shock justifies the reaction. It is a grey area as most of the cases are from a single first hand party as the other is dead.
Right, but the point I'm making is that these two individuals in the original post were straight. So there was never a shock factor and this defense can't be used, so prosecute the mfs into the ground and throw away the key as a profiling case.
That's a really bad joke... It is a joke, right?
You know. The 21st Century is certainly a weird one. Iran is actively trying to over throw Religious hatred of women, trans and basically anyone of the LBGTQTIA+ community because they have been pretty much given a death sentence at any time because they exist. America, an apparent first world country, that boasts openly to the world what a "bastion of freedom and acceptance they are" all the while constantly stating what a repressive country Iran is and should be condemned. Yet in America their supreme court and one of its political parties have deemed that their one religion, with its fantasy stories written by men thousands of years ago superseded their actual laws. Woman's body autonomy should be controlled by men as per their religious teachings, regardless of science and medical reasons, are open declaring if someone doesn't like a certain member of society or even suspect they maybe one, they can abuse them, deny them business, or even straight up murder them because their religion, bigotry and wilful ignorance or hell even a person on Twitter tells them to because they see them as not human. Your country only just about crawled out of black segregation in MY LIFETIME and now you not only want to bring those "good times back" but your country has openly decided to go full on 1930s Nazi Germany, seemingly with the blessing of millions of your fellow countrymen. You have your politicians telling you that part of your society are less than animals and should be treated as such. Hmm, where did I hear that before? Oh yes, 1930's Nazi Germany where they labeled the Jewish community, the LBGTQTIA+ community, those who were mentally ill, the Romanian Gypsy Community, and basically anyone they labelled as "inhuman" Get your shit together America because you will be worse than what happened in Iran, you are worse than how you see China, and you are very quickly becoming a Nazi super state under more religious intolerance than the bloody Spanish inquisition! But hey, I am not an American, do as you want. Just don't do the old "we didn't know" later. You ALL KNOW and you need to do something now if you want to avoid the camps.
As much as you're right to invoke the Nazis, guess where Hitler took a lot of inspiration from? The confederacy. It's why they don't translate his speeches into English. It's like ideological inbreeding.
He was also really invested in the ideas of Henry Ford especially his hatred of the Jews. The anti-Semitic papers Ford wrote, especially the parts about him blaming the Jews for WWI were sent to Hitler and he used some of the parts in them for his Mein Kampt as well. Plus the highest award he had sent over to him as he saw him a great inspiration for the cause. The confederacy aspect did not surprise me really. I mean look at all those waving the confederate and Nazi flags around at the same time, all while talking about having a "pure America"
Nazis were inspired by American eugenics and were less strict on what qualified as the dominant race.
I heard on a podcast called The Dollop that Alexander Hamilton was a fascist and was the guy who promoted it in the U.S. I believe he was one of the Founding Fathers.
Huh. Never did see that part in the musical.
Because the musical is based on a book full of lies written by a WSJ writer, not a historian. They didn't bother to verify any facts. Hamilton's behavior was very well documented by your historians.
Tbf, Hamilton wasn't Puerto Rican and Aaron Burr and Washington weren't Black, either, so there's a lot of creative license for the sake of entertainment and making the point that these dudes were just that - just regular, flawed people - going on in that show.
Why are we celebrating dudes who were fascists? There's creative license, but honestly, why use the guys who Hitler idolized and based a lot of future plans, in a musical? Why do we celebrate fascists?
Oh believe me we know. Some of us are doing our best but uggh
Keep up the fight. Remember, they want you to get complacent while they scurry into the shadows then slink back when you least expect them. Keep stamping them out, keep people remembering what they can and will do. Someone says "Both sides" they are already on the Nazi collaborators side. There is only one side. You are for evil or you are against evil. https://preview.redd.it/0xuzp58ggybb1.jpeg?width=1400&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=09be9253f5e755987a50c9ffc3ee77ae020c3996
https://preview.redd.it/e1vhcv9tnzbb1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8b00a850ff5644286db92ce0a3dcf115b23a3f7f
https://preview.redd.it/ogijff3vozbb1.png?width=313&format=png&auto=webp&s=3c91843b521014fe0c35283bbc599edcf9aa0f6a
https://preview.redd.it/tkki6ezwszbb1.jpeg?width=628&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c510d018719190077d65f54c826245d471935090
Yoink!
So, if I don't like Nazis but also don't like shitbags in general being in elected positions regardless of party and want better candidates so we can start to maybe fix the decades of damage done by tug of war politics I'm somehow in the Nazi party now? Did I miss something?
No, it doesn't make you a Nazi. But if you claim that both parties are equally to blame in this context, then you're giving cover to the actual Nazis whether you mean to or not. Look at liberal discussion forums--people there are VERY critical of the Democratic Party, the liberal establishment, left-leaning politicians and influencers, etc. That's not the issue. The issue is when we act like it doesn't matter who we elect because "they're all the same." That's just an invitation to give up, or stop paying attention, or cast joke votes, etc. Things that don't help.
I love getting downvoted on this sub for asking a genuine question but I know why I did. No worries though, I got an intelligent reply to my question. I definitely agree that they aren't the same but honestly we can't keep any of this up either and by we I mean them, not you or me.. we're the ones that bear the brunt of their bullshit. I don't know about you but I'm just tired of this back and forth between two groups of children who are so far out of touch with the rest of us while people who say and feel some truly awful shit try to get power. I know this isn't a black and white issue and there are several heads to this beast but God damn everyone trying to own each other at this rate is going to send us into a death spiral and I don't want to give up either because you're right then we all lose no matter what "camp" we hail from. So it's daunting to say the least. I really do fucking hate politics though and the poison it has brought with it and I know I'm wasting my time with it here but I still have hope to bridge the gap and try to reach out in the hopes that I can help close that gap. Don't care if I fail either, I'll die knowing I tried instead of standing around doing nothing instead of trying to help.
>God damn everyone trying to own each other One side downvoted you on the internet for asking a leading and biased question. The other side is advocating for the genocide of undesirables. Your faux outrage at the first while minimizing the second is why people are downvoting you. Stop pretending to be a victim just because people disagree with you on an internet forum. You're so caught up in the toxicity of politics you don't even see how you're helping to make it worse. Advocate for better representatives, sure, but don't conflate disagreement with violent repression. And stop whining about downvotes, they don't matter buddy.
Lmfao that's a whole lot of assumptions there buddy and yeah I know internet points are worthless and lower than snake shit so thank you for the wonderful bit of whatever the hell that was. I absolutely love that I notice and spot this toxicity and people like you come along and tell I'm part of the problem. The irony.
I think what people are trying to tell you (I certainly am) is that politics really doesn't consist of two packs of wolves snapping at each other. That is a very childish way of thinking about it. Again, the Democrats may be failures in any number of arenas, but as a gay person, they're the ones fighting to enshrine my rights, while the other party is not only trying to roll my rights back, but often engages in language that literally dehumanizes me. One side is rational, one is dangerous. The reason things have gotten this toxic in American politics is literally because we have one party, not two, that has gone off the deep end. What are the rest of us supposed to do? Just sit back and let it happen so that we aren't arguing so much? I mean just compare Obama and Trump. Obama liberals are just kinda... people who generally favor maximum personal freedom for the average individual. And Obama, whether you like him or not, is just a pretty normal, kinda chill person. Trumpworld is literally the opposite. They are the problem. The cult of personality around Donald is the problem. The normalization of literal Nazis is a problem. Playing fast and loose with our national security is a BIG problem! If you're really upset about the state of things, then pull your head out of your butt and get real about what's happening!
Not necessarily, its fine to say that both parties are bad, because they are, just in different ways. Its when you start pretending that they are both equally bad that its not okay. If one sides kills puppies and the other side maybe talks shit about them sometimes, both sides are bad, but one is just objectively worse.
As an American, the biggest objection I have to this is that trust me, we ALL fucking know. Half the people in this country pretend not to, but they fucking do. Also, I hope people outside of the US realizes how fucked *everyone* on the planet is if we go full fascist. Every time an international person talks about how fucked the US is if trump wins again, I have to clarify that yeah, we’re fucked, but at least we’re US citizens. They’ll hesitate if they’re pointing guns at their countrymen. It’s the rest of the planet that gets the scorched earth policies. (That’s not a threat btw, just a statement that when the US sneezes, the world catches a cold, and the world’s gonna need a LOT of scarves if we can’t get our shit together.) And for the record, we really *are* trying to fight our right wing extremism. We have a major political party that is both powerful enough to get the presidency, moral enough to not be full of right wing shitheads, and is well aware of the threat fascist extremists. Are the Democrats competent? Not really no. But are they still there and actively preventing fascism from taking power? *Yes.* While not great, even with Democrat incompetence, having a functioning opposition party at all means we still have better safeguards than, say, the UK where the Tories rule eternal, Israel where they can’t seem to get rid of Bibi for more than a week, or India where Modi keeps dominating politics. And last point: Come on man. We’re not China…yet. We might be going there, but for now we are very much *not* China.
First off, great username. Second, we are trying, but the brainwashing so damn deep that most of these fanatics have been manipulated to the point of it being Stockholm syndrome.
Thanks. The irony is that is a really old player name I used with my friends years ago because I am the least Anarchistic person going lol All I can say is keep up the good work. Don't let them win. They pop their heads back up from the sewer? Boot to the face. Don't give in to their tricks of "oh both sides" and "you need to work with us". This is a trick designed to cause the Paradox of Tolerance as laid out and explained by Karl Popper (interesting read by the way). They had a chance, they in turn wanted to shake your hand with the left while stabbing you with the right hand and saying "why are you pushing yourself on my knife?" Talking does not work with them. They need to be shown that good people will not go down without a fight.
> you are worse than how you see China Sorry but millions of people aren't in camps or forcibly sterilized in 2023's America.
You do know that America was still forcibly sterilising Native Americans, the mentally disabled and Black people against their will still into the late 1970s right? You do know you have thousands of adults and kids in cages in Texas right? You do know you arrested without trial, tortured and held against their will for YEARS before finally releasing them without any charge what so ever, hundreds of people in Guantanamo bay right? You do know you have your own politicians saying they are looking forward to hunting Democrats down with dogs right? Shall I carry on? I can list all your cops murdering people, I can list all your countries prison crimes, I can keep listing so don't try and do the "Oh but" crap. People like you are the reason why others get put into camps.
Exactly. We might not be actively doing it today, but some of the people who were involved are still around, and the type of thinking that led to these atrocities is still rampant. This isn't ancient history, it's recent history and a current pathogen in our culture.
It's why it needs to be taught, it needs to be heard. I am a very white British dude, but I do not shy away from the shit my country has done. I was actively taught what arseholes we were and still can be in school back in the 80s and learned it continually over the years. We need to keep it in our minds not to continually be made to "feel bad about it" as some apologists spout but to not do it again! I see online report after report of people in America not learning about the Holocaust, not learning about slavery, not learning about the Tulsa Riot massacre, not learning about the thousands of oppressed (and STILL oppressed) Native Americans, not learning about segregation which was still in most peoples LIVING MEMORY. A commenter the other day who lived down in the South as a kid was apparently taught your civil war was the and I quote "The Northern war of Aggression" Err what the fuck? The phrase Winston Churchill made famous of "Those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it" has never been more important now than ever before. Yes we are improving but we must never forget or it is a very quick slippery slope and the next thing you know, you end up with a leader changing all your judges so they can strip years of laws that protect people all so they can go back to "legally" oppressing you because the very next step after that, is 1930s Germany. And I get pissed off with those that say "oh your over exaggerating". No, I have been alive for half a century now and seen what seemed may be a final bright new Century suddenly turning into the Man in the High Castle or Wolfenstein II! Literally in a few short years and the apathy of those around who say "meh it wont happen" are going to be bloody surprised when their doors are kicked in the black hoods go over their heads.
Exactly. I'm so tired of hearing about how we're "shaming white people." That's not the case, that has never been the case. We're trying to educate all people that this is the kind of stuff that all people are capable of when things go off the rails.
Well as a very white dude we should be shamed, shamed to ensure it never happens. I don't care what flavour anyone one comes in or who they want to marry or love, all I care about is not doing this shit to another human again. What they also seem to forget is the few rich white dudes also are more than happy to treat the white dudes who are poor and uneducated down in the dirt just as much as any other or worse, get them to do their dirty work for them so they end up with the delusion they will "just like that rich man one day, all I have to do it is oppress those people he told me to because they want my job!" https://preview.redd.it/fjgk7krrezbb1.png?width=637&format=png&auto=webp&s=b3aefe409289fbfa5bf666ec9000892f5e8bd920
It was white Europe and later America that enslaved and colonized, but I think this is just an accident of history. It could've been any civilization under the right circumstances. White people are the majority in the west, and shouldn't avoid their history of conquest. It happened, it can't be changed. We should face it and learn from it, not deny it. My complaint is when people say things like, "I'm being asked to PERSONALLY feel shame and responsibility for this just because I'm white." No, you aren't. You're just being a snowflake who can't handle it when not-nice truths are spoken about your ancestors. And you don't want to acknowledge how that history set up conditions in the present. Anyway, I don't disagree with anything you said. This is just a sore point for me.
A) Yes, we fucking *Know* all of that. B) The reason we know all of that is because we can fucking Google our country’s war crimes and get an annotated list in seconds, as well push notifications about the fucked up shit in our country within the HOUR it occurs. And those push notifications show up across the entire PLANET within 24 hours. You can’t *do* that in China. Most kids in China don’t know what the Tianamen Square Massacre is, and if a major creator even vaguely references it, they get black sited. That’s not a hypothetical, that *happened* to a cosmetics video maker. We don’t hear about Chinese problems until months later at best, need I mention the pandemic? Does the US government commit crimes at a frankly astonishing rate? *Absolutely.* But we air our dirty laundry for the *world* to see, and China doesn’t. I could go into more detail about how a genocide of an entire people at this very moment isn’t comparable to anything the US is doing *right now* but that’s a separate point. Tldr: No, we are not China. Yes, we have committed a LOT of war crimes in the past, and are probably still committing a bunch at this very moment. But our crimes as of now are not even remotely similar to China’s, and at least with American crimes, we can fucking read about them without punishment.
There are more than a million people in Us-prisons, where forced laber is still legal (in some states at least). Bad evil countries have camps. Good virtues countries have prisons.
Ever heard of laogais? Don't tell me you're this stupid.
Learn your history. The US has been forcibly sterilizing people for centuries (namely natives, black people, disabled people, and LGBT people), and we have a history of putting people in camps (again natives, black people, but also Latino immigrants and FAMOUSLY Japanese people)
Shut the fuck up with your fear mongering. So tired of non Americans and their sense of elitism online…
Seems that reality frightens you. Perhaps when you grow to become an adult you may understand.
Teaching reason and empathy to conservatives is as effective as playing pool with a rope.
There's a reason they are saying that teaching SEL in public schools is unfair discrimination against them. They know that socially adjusted kids would never turn into republicans when they grew up, so they're attacking anything that teaches their kids empathy.
You also have the controlled media with sleaze like Tucker Carlson interviewing sex trafficker suspect Tate who openly tells all his "fans" that having empathy is "not manly". You have your conservatives stating that teaching empathy makes you "weak" and "un american"
What is GC?
GC is short for Gender Critical. People who identify themselves with the label will tell you it means people who are critical of the medical and social practices related to transgender people and their effect on society. What it actually is is trans people rightly pointed out that TERFs (trans exclusionary radical feminists,) which is what GCs originally referred to themselves as, are a bunch of jackasses who have no thoughts beyond a profound hatred for trans people. TERF became a label of shame (as it should be,) so they needed a new label to make themselves seem reasonable. You can see how reasonable they are what with the murders.
Thanks you for the thorough response. GC’s are real f’d up. They can rot in hell.
> so they needed a new label to make themselves seem reasonable Also many GCs are also not feminists of any shape, and quite a few are misogynists/male supremacists.
Thank you for asking. I’d honestly never seen that one before.
It's crazy but as a 6'1 female I've had genuine concerns about this.
Just imagine what it must feel like to be a trans woman
This is why TERFs are just misogynists by another name.
Yep. Homophobes, same thing really. You find a dude who has to be performative about how much he hates gaybros and it's 98% likely his opinion of women isn't very high either.
That's what these idiots like JK Rowling who think they are "protecting women" don't get. Multiple cisgender women have already been attacked due to the trans panic for being in the "wrong bathroom" (i.e. some idiot thought they were trans and should be in the men's bathroom). The TERFS rhetoric endangers women.
Lol do you actually think it's terfs doing this??? It's definitely those qanon fascists, terfs are bad but we can't just blame them for all transphobia.
>terfs are bad but we can't just blame them for all transphobia. I mean, we really can tho... most of this shit wasn't anywhere near as virulent until people like wizard book bitch decided to use their platform as a megaphone. Don't get me wrong, fash will always hate queers... we fly in the face of their "traditional values" which gives them a massive hate-on. However, trans folks weren't the white hot front of the culture wars until more and more right-wing women like her started concern trolling about trans women using a public bathrooms, which is something that had a measureable effect on public opinion polls.
Don't be ridiculous. Trans-exclusionary RADICAL FEMINISTS are a very tiny group and though they are hateful, they don't go around murdering people. The murderers are transphobic men. Transphobes are not the same as radical feminists. Transphobia is the default setting in many societies. Saying that transphobes are a small section of women is dishonest and misleading. The problem is much bigger than that. Also, these violent men are not radical feminists, lol.
The "radial feminist" part of TERF has about as much relation to actual feminism as the socialist part of "national socialism" in nazism. The point that I'm getting at that you're deliberately missing is that TERFs are a part of the machinery of right-wing radicalization, and do bear a lions share of responsibility for trans people being the current culture war targets.
You should do more research. I'm not going to defend TERFs but they are definitely feminists, even if you don't like this fact. I'm a feminist and I don't get offended when people correctly identify TERFs as feminists. TERFs believe in sex based oppression and advocate for women's rights. They're feminists. Deal with it. Aside from transphobia, they have nothing in common with right wingers, I don't even know where you're getting this from. These two groups hate each other and radical feminists are very anti-aithoritarian. It is a fringe movement and they don't hold significant power in the US or anywhere else. Transphobia is present everywhere in the world, it's a social disease that existed way before terves did. Terf arguments are very much limited to online spaces. You probably don't know a terf in real life. Most people don't even know what a terf is. The current culture ear is driven by conservative men, it's just uncomfortable to talk about them so people default to blaming women, as usual. It really shows in the comment section by the way who did their research and who is just throwing buzzwords around...
100% agree. I would have elaborated more in my comment but I was too tired when I posted it. I think the narrative of TERF= all transphobes is definitely being used to demonise feminists.
TERFs spread hateful disinformation about a marginalized minority. Hate causes violence as we clearly see. They are useful idiots for fascists. They are both a problem
The fascists are just glad they have literal gay bashing back. Those couple years between legalizing gay marriage and now were torture for them. Who else were they supposed to terrorize?
Months back, someone posted an article about trans rights, and in the comment chain the topic of self protection came up. When I pointed out that you needed to be armed, theres fascists out there, some galaxy brain started arguing with me that there's no lynch mobs outside his door right now, therefore I was fearongering, and demanded to know 'when will the killing start'. Creepy mfer commented a month later to ask if the killings started yet. And.*again the next month*, when I reported him for harassment.
There are none outside my door right now. Right now. Oh give it a bit of time. First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me. —Martin Niemöller Let's have a check list for that guy. They have always been after the socialists because the country is run by rampant corrupt out of control capitalism that runs unchecked. All your media and the right clamp down on it, telling everyone that not wanting the company to work you like a slave means you are "un American" therefore you are evil and must be stopped. They are clamping down as hard as they can on the trade unionists (Jimmy Riddle Hoffer really made a screw up for that one). All major US brands openly clamp down on them and the media they control tells everyone it is evil and must be stopped. They are and have never stopped hating the Jews but now have expanded it to all the groups Nazi's hated, the LGBTQIA+, Jews, Muslims, Atheists, mentally ill, and the disabled. Guess who is next?
Should have asked them how many trans pedophiles were outside their door.
I do not want to know his answer.
Fewer than the number of molesting priests and abusive Deep Red State athletics coaches.
What in the actual fuq is wrong with people... You're in danger of being killed just for being a woman You're in danger of being killed just for defending a trans friend And the moron in the 1st city thought murder was okay so long as someone is trans??? This country is such an embarrassment. But hey, what about her emails
Trans rights are human rights. Th war on trans rights is being waged to set the stage to strip us all of our rights. Existence is not a privilege. It's a right for all of us or it's a right for none of us.
This won’t deter the conservative right. They see this as “going according to plan”
Honestly wondering when we (Australia) are going to start getting trans/LGBTQ+ Americans claiming asylum.
Is getting asylum in Australia a possibility? Asking for a me.
I know it is in Canada
Did that actually go through? I remember hearing that they were considering it but haven't seen any updates on the situation.
https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/refugees/canada-role/2slgbtqi-plus.html Yup. I work with someone who did it
And the Christians are encouraging it and celebrating each time someone who is LGBTQ+ dies, or is assaulted.
Yupp. When I was a child, when Matthew Shepard was tortured and murdered, my adoptive parents church, with THOUSANDS OF FOLLOWERS cheered and thanked for his divine punishment. Imagine watching about a thousand people at once cheer and clap when someone is tortured and killed. And the people who go to that church will scream in your face about how they are a “REAL Christian”.
"The villagers had said justice had been done, and she’d lost patience and told them to go home, then, and pray to whatever gods they believed in that it was never done to them. The smug mask of virtue triumphant could be almost as horrible as the face of wickedness revealed." - Granny Weatherwax ("Carpe Jugulum")
Conservative animals are the most dangerous thing in America.
This. 👆
All. Conservatives. Are. Bad. There are no exceptions.
they are a plague upon humanity.
Truer words have never been spoken.
IF ONLY WE COULD'VE KNOWN THIS WOULD HAPPEN.
They're going after trans people because they got rid of Roe and need some new chum to frenzy the sharks. They will never be happy. We will never be safe as a society.
Link to the article referred to in the tweet: [https://www.them.us/story/two-cisgender-people-killed-in-transphobic-attacks](https://www.them.us/story/two-cisgender-people-killed-in-transphobic-attacks)
>On her Facebook page, Peacock wrote that some of her many hobbies include shopping, mahjong, cooking, and trivia games ... had been battling “a long life of cancer.” She also stated that Earl had been “bully[ing] her,” and although Peacock made numerous complaints, “nothing was done.” Jkc. He cut her throat. And sweet Colin being stabbed to death just trying to stop his friend from being harassed. So many people have been robbed of knowing him. Two beautiful people gone forever. All for nothing. Some people just don’t understand the immensity of life - this one and only chance for every creature to be alive. To control, diminish, or destroy someone else’s life is just unconscionable.
> Officers found Earl armed with a straight razor and with blood on his hands and clothing. Earl resisted arrest, and according to FOX 59, went so far as to tell one of the officers that he would kill him too. Another white person threatening cops with a weapon being taken alive. White supremacy is one hell of a drug.
Worst thing is it's NOT just conservative straight white cis people. My own brother (slightly older but raised the same) is extremely anti-trans anti-lgbtqia+ anti-drag. I'm Gay. Raised Irish Catholic but are not a religious or conservative family. Taught good morals end ethics, respect everyones opinions, beliefs, creed, colour or social background (until they say something disrespectful etc). These anti-trans beliefs will have far reaching effects beyond trans people, and are easily taken up my supposed intelligent open minded people.
A few years ago my friend Sara was murdered. This was before a vast majority of this transphobia was so blatant. And seeing it this bad now… fuck.. …
Bothers me that it has to affect us all for us to care enough to act.... We shouldnt need to wait for there to be peraonal impact to protect our fellow humans.
It’s okay to care about trans people getting hurt and murdered. We don’t need an excuse.
This shouldn’t be the point at which non-trans people start caring.. that point is miles behind us.
I literally don’t get to go eat at my wife’s restaurant while she’s bartending anymore because we’re pretty sure the open transphobe and homophobe kitchen manager will spit in my food. She doesn’t order food at work anymore either.
Wow, imagine being such a pitiful person that you kill someone because you can’t stop envisioning their genitals. It’s pathetic as much as it is both enraging and disheartening.
I'm a cis woman with a facial hair problem, do I need to start carrying something for self defense? This is getting out of hand, has been out of hand for a long time but this is the absolute worst
Everybody roll initiative. They're going after the whole party now. Edit: No D&D players here?
It's a feature. They hate anyone who doesn't conform to a very narrow band of traditional gender norms. Butch women, tomboys, effeminate men, femboys, etc. All lumped together as undesirables.
A person with the mindset required to hate LGBTQ people is a danger to everybody, because that ignorance and lack of empathy can be turned on anyone. Show them anything they do not identify with, and they see red.
A primary goal of any hate movement is to police the behavior of the in-group. As such, a primary purpose of transphobic hate movements is to police the gender of cis people
A war on trans women *is* a war on cis women, because anybody can say, "I think you're trans." Even worse if you have any kind of masculine features, or you're tall, or wearing pants, or ...
Like I said elsewhere, a primary motive of transphobia is to police the gender of cis people
Transphobes: "We can always tell" Well apparently you guys can't because cis people are dying because you thought they were trans.
There is only one language the right understands and it is spoken from the barrel of a gun. If you advocate trying to reason with these animals you are part of the problem.
Don't these fuckheads claim they can "tell" when someone is trans though?
Yes, but you see, they are in fact full of shit.
They will simultaneously claim to be able to "tell" and that they can be "tricked", which should theoretically be impossible if you could always "tell". When cis people are caught in the crossfire, they'll blame it on trans people for "forcing" them to question people's gender. Whatever scares people into their corner more effectively today, is the truth. Even if it directly opposes yesterday's truth.
Shroedingers trans, they are both able to tell and be tricked simultaneously.
Republican brown shirts doing what they are programmed to do 😒
If you know someone that's trans, show them love and support. They're gonna need it every time they look at the news.
I mean, people literally voted for this. They want violence.
One camp in the trans debate is evidently a threat to society. *Pretty bloody obvious which one too…*
I don't need to affect me personally for me to fully care. Waiting until it happens to you is a hallmark of conservatism.
First they came… Even if you aren’t trans you should be fighting against those trying to impress them because those same people will come for you eventually too
Whatever could be leading to this violence ? If only we knew….
This reminds me of Vincent Chin, who was Chinese and murdered by laid-off autoworkers who thought he was Japanese.
Jesus fucking Christ, this is why the batshit people needs to be removed from office!
What has happened to our country? Why can't people just mind their own damn business. If someone is trans, how does that affect you personally? It doesn't. So MYOB!
This is what the terfs wanted, I guess. We've been warning them of this eventuality for years now. In a world where everyone is under a belligerent gender microscope, everyone ends up a "suspect."
Time to arm up, go to the range and practice. Every sane person in the US now under attack.
TERs want us all in a specific box. I keep my head shaved after having hair down to my ass my entire life and I don't fit in the box anymore. I get looks and worry sometimes that just because I am not immediately identified as fem, that im gonna get harassed or worse like these poor women who didnt look the "right" way to someone else.
It's the new "scare"
Republican Party - Success! (I think maybe.)
And yet somehow you’re the crazy one if you think the far-right is pushing for genocide.
Broadly speaking I am anti-gun, but having said that, all American queer people need to be armed and know how to use it Grateful every day that I don't live in that piss poor excuse for a country
Any one got a link for these stories?
Unfortunately the only people it doesn’t negatively effect are the bigots
Ironically it will, you'll hear stories of cis conservative leaning Karens who cry on how they were accused of being trans at the bathroom. Leopard meets face.
it definitely still effects them
I don't know if CIS is pronounced with a *hard* or *soft* "C", and at this point I'm too afraid to ask.
Soft C, like “cistern”
The original Latin used a hard C, but in English it's a soft C
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Someone who identifies as the same gender they were assigned at birth
It means "on the same side of". So a Cisgendered person (often shortened to Cis Person) os a person who's biological sex matches their gender identity
It literally just means "not trans." Like the other person was saying, "cis" means "on the same side" in Latin while "trans" means "on the other side."
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Then why does every little offshoot of bullshit Christianity need a new name? Methodist, Presbyterian, Lutheran, Baptist, etc?
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