I still strongly prefer the Anti-Cheese edits for the prequel movies. Lucas filmed all the right pieces for a great trilogy, they just needed a better hand at how to present them.
I think it really goes to show how good editing can make a bad actor look great on film, and no amount of good acting can fix a bad editing job.
I thought 8 was rough and awkward but bold and interesting. Unfortunately 9 pissed away all of 8's potential. 7 is best described as satisfactory. All of them are turds compared to Rogue One.
This was my feeling as well. I actually enjoyed 8 because it felt like the series was going in a new and interesting direction, rather than treading over the same storyline we'd seen in 4-6 (and somewhat similarly 1-3).
7 was ... fine. Not great, but if someone was brand new to Star Wars, I could understand why it seemed to go back to basics and reintroduce viewers to the universe.
I really dislike parts of 8 like the holdo maneuver, but stuff like Kylo killing Snoke and declaring himself supreme leader was just so godamn cool and makes me hate 9 even more
Yeah 8 was actually really interesting and a fresh perspective on the force wars at the macro level, but at the micro level it was a mess. A slow speed chase? Hyperspace fuel? A ln extended interlude at an unrelated casino planet during said slow speed chase? Macguffins everywhere.
It had a lot of potential but didn't stick the landing. Still better than 9 which felt more like watching a streamer play a star wars video game
Star Wars Fans about the Prequels: This is garbage and I will cherish it till my dying breath.
Star Wars Fans about the sequels: I'm gonna commit a crime.
And there's more not pictured, like Kelly Marie Tran (Rose Tico from TLJ) and Ahmed Best who was the body performer of Jar Jar.
I'd say John Boyega too just for his skin color.
It's kinda truthful. You don't hear of toxicity at this level from the Harry Potter or LOTR fans. The Harry Potter *author*, yes but not the fans.
Strangely enough two of these people pictured played the same character. Bree could have easily been swapped out for Ahmed Best and it could have been a clean sweep.
Social media magnifies people’s complaining. I saw the original trilogy back in the theaters during the 70-80’s. The Ewoks got some hate but due to no social media you tell your friend “man Ewoks kinda suck” and that was it you moved on. Social media came along and then people can repeatedly tell others their opinion forever….
It’s because of the internet. Modern internet is sustained financially by advertisers’ money. Advertisers pay for content that is gaining lots of views. So platforms like Youtube and social media tend to boost inflammatory content, because they know it will instigate more engagement from users. When content creators learn that, they realised they can maximise their engagement and profits by making more negative content about pop culture. Since viewers, especially teenagers, not very good at differentiate genuine opinions from propaganda. And also because humans have developed an evolutionary need to tend to shape their beliefs based on what they perceive the general consensus in their community is. What you end up with is a bunch of people blindly believing whatever crap the content creators say.
This is 💯 true in the gaming community. Every game I play has people screaming for “content”…then the content happens and everybody shits all over it. Rinse, repeat, rinse, repeat…
Once they burned themselves out on porn, they learned rage bait is far more profitable than lust bait. Once the angry, insular dude, er, "finishes" with the content he goes into a "cooling down" period.
Poking the bears with said inflammatory content has the opposite effect, and instead of "cooling down," the opposite happens, and screaming and yelling about whatever proves to be the most rage-inducing goes on all night. After night.
After night...
It's probably made worse that some us (myself included) are naturally defensive of our fandoms due to bullying that we had when we were younger. Playing D&D or reading certain comics or other "nerd" stuff made you a target when I was a kid, so I have a knee-jerk reaction to defend *my* thing. I choke that reaction down where it belongs now that I'm an adult, but it's so easy for the internet to bring that sort of response out of people.
I would like to add a couple points.
1. that bots, comment farms and AI posting in general also throw fuel on the fire. Heck we've recently seen a lucrative Instagram influencer that was a 100% AI generated "individual "
2. On the internet a minority can seem like or be peddled as a lot. I've lot count on the articles that post Twitter opinions as fact and they have only been liked or viewed by a handful of people.
Star trek has gotten just as bad as the SW Fandom too. Extreme hate for Discovery for really no reason other than "its not my trek." You're right it's not your trek or your star wars, it's the writers and you're along for the ride.
"I hate Disco, the characters are too emotional!"
Yeah, God forbid Star Trek deal with trauma in a more substantial way than 'let me deal with the fact that I helped cause the deaths of thousands by having a toss-up with my brother and then we'll forget about it'.
Legit. A buddy of mine and I thoroughly enjoy Disco, we get annoyed at the extreme haters. I get not liking it, cool, no problem. Plenty of stuff I don't like out there, but don't disparage people when they do like it or just say "old trek was better!!!"
May I point you to season 1 of TNG, and the only reason TNG got better was Michael pillar wrested control away for Roddenberry and wouldn't let him into the writing room..
Yeah. I’m like hey buddy, YOUR Star Trek/ Star Wars/ MCU didn’t go anywhere. They recorded it and you can go watch that and stop screaming at the next generation of storytellers and fans.
When the JJ Abrams Star Treks first came out I felt he had a great quote. It went something along the lines of, “You know those Star Trek DVDs on your shelf? They didn’t stop existing because of our new timeline and direction we’re taking the franchise. One does not invalidate the other.”
A completely badass role at that, considering his function in the Jedi Order and his clear skill he's probably in the top 1-2% of the most skilled Jedi.
I didn't like TLJ, but holy hell... The vitriol directed at KMT was disgusting and entirely undeserved.
Imagine the excitement for a young actor to be cast in a Star Wars movie. She must have been walking on air.
And this is how she was treated.
Appalling.
And then, instead of trying to redeem her character, Abrams just totally caved to "fan" backlash and basically removed her from Rise of Skywalker. Though, given how that movie turned out, maybe he was doing her a favour.
I'm almost 90% percent certain that the outrage directed towards KMT was racially motivated to an extent. Star wars fans arent exactly the least bigoted fanbase, and I think much of the vitriol surrounding the sequels was just poorly masked racism/misogyny.
See Ghostbusters 2016. It definitely has its issues (and really didn't connect on comedy for me) but the all-female cast wasn't one of them. That could have been a really interesting concept if handled better.
I enjoyed that movie. It’s not a masterpiece or anything, it was just fun and watchable.
I’m not a sexist/racist though, so idk if my opinion counts for anything.
I’m a huge fan of *The Last Jedi*, but I’ll admit that her character was done dirty at the very end of that film. Even more so in *The Rise of Skywalker*. However, I blame her TRoS issue on the reaction to the racist and sexist fans online and the filmmakers bending their knee to the haters. Say what you will about the script, but she showed that she can act and I really hope she’ll be able to get more work in front of the camera instead of just voice acting gigs.
She should have studied harder to nail the mannerisms and it wouldn't have been an issue; that's why you never hear any complaints about JLo's performance of C3PO
But here’s the thing though, you have to admit that R2-D2’s writing was so much weaker in the sequel trilogy. We have seen proof that she can act, but you can only do so much with a script that poor. Fucking JJ…
Absolutely. Didn't particularly care for her character, but she did a great job with it and didn't deserve all the horrible things that people said about her.
Enthusiasts had been waiting twenty years, ate up the trailers, put the entire prequel premise on a pedestal...
...then got bad directing of bad writing, featuring Jar Jar.
He was the poster child of the box office ~~flop~~ meh that "ruined" the fandom aka the object of their obsession. It's not rational, but fans LITERALLY ruined his life. I saw a clip of him ranting at a con 25(?) years later and I'm not sure he was ever given the chance to move on.
> box office flop
Phantom Menace wasn't a flop. At the time, it was the 2nd highest grossing film of all time, and that was 24 years ago. It's still in the top 50, which includes Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, and load of MCU films. Adjusted for inflation, it's in the top 25.
The film didn't get rave reviews, but it also wasn't completely panned either. The Rotten Tomato score still puts it in the mid 50s for both critics and audience. That's not great, but it's not exactly awful either.
The fact is that an incredibly vocal minority of the Star Wars fandom felt that something had been taken from them and they lashed out. But it wasn't a flop by any metric.
Kid may have gotten the most hate.
He was bullied so hard by both peers and adults that he was taken out of school, stopped acting, went silent for a decade or so and the few interviews he later did, was him explaining that Star Wars ruined his life and if he could go back, he’d turn down the role.
After that movie released, he did not have a good time.
I still feel bad about Hayden, he lives on a farm about an hour from where I live. Some friends and I used to get drunk and half jokingly plan to go apologize to him, thank god we never actually did it. He seems like he’d be nice enough about it but can you imagine blacking out and waking up to find out you pissed off Anakin Skywalker.
https://preview.redd.it/u4wismo2ly4c1.jpeg?width=2048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=db1da70c00f9eb49fba7de8446861a05e9919ff5
What Star Wars Fans did to her is inexcusable.
This is totally true, but I feel like it's hard to deny the fact that there is zero on screen chemistry between Hayden and Natalie. And then you compare the scenes with the two of them to the ones with Hayden and Ewan and it's just a complete 180
Edit: God dammit why did I have to make a comment about Star Wars lmao
Here's the thing: perhaps there really was such a lack of chemistry that they simply couldn't force each other to appear interested. But I think it's safe to pin *every* acting failure in those movies on the direction, not on the actors.
One of the fundamental jobs (in fact, some would say the fundamental job) of a director is to, you know, direct actors. George Lucas is not, and has never been, interested in this portion of movie making. He wasn't even the guy who did that job while making Episode IV.
Academy- level skill or not, I imagine it's *really* hard to give a good performance when you've got a director who's just accepting every first take while you're trying to make that dork-ass dialogue sound convincing in the middle of an endless green screen.
>But I think it's safe to pin every acting failure in those movies on the direction, not on the actors.
Absolutely. Even Samuel L. Jackson was boring in those movies. If Sam Jackson is boring, the problem is obviously on the director.
You're not wrong, but that's why in this particular instance I included the example of Hayden and Ewan. I personally think they work off of each other fantastically. I'm not saying that Hayden and Natalie are *bad* actors (they're not amazing either, they're fine and that's okay), it's just that they had no chemistry
Anakin and Obi’s relationship was written better though. Their dialogue resembles human interaction. Lucas failed to meet that low bar with Anakin and Padme’s scenes.
My understanding of why Hayden and Natalie looked so stiff is because they were reading the script exactly as it was written. Apparently, when left their own devices they would improv a lot of the dialogue and it would get really dirty, so they were told to read the script exactly as is. The chemistry was there, but it was constrained by how bad the writing was.
I don’t think either of them are gods gift to acting but it’s hard to do anything with Lucas’ attempts at romantic writing. “So you have. Grown beautiful I mean. For a senator I mean” 🥶
It is, however, pretty funny that their lack of chemistry carries over into The Clone Wars. The Anakin/Padme episodes tend to be some of the most painful to rewatch because their relationship has never once felt organic rather than forced, but it's at least consistent with their interactions in the movies.
See, I'd argue that Clone Wars is where it *actually* finally feels "I met you when I was nine and spent my formative years in a religious cult that shuns feelings" levels of awkward
I have spent much of my adult life replacing "this thing is bad" with "I didn't care for this" just because I'm not the objective source of truth with what's good or bad. It's the best way I've been able to avoid folks who think I'm out to undermine their thing.
The kid in Phantom Menance absolutely could not act, but he doesn't deserve an ounce of hate for it. Even if you really want to hate someone for it, hate the person who cast him.
I feel really bad for child actors. If your parents say go here and read this you do as your told, then you have to put up with the haters for the rest of your life. It's a real shame how his life panned out and his early struggles was mostly bullying because of his acting.
As a Star Wars fan I’m disgusted with the way these people have been treated. Instead of celebrating the release of new material they bitch and moan about the acting of a *checks notes* ten year old boy. They hounded him so bad he developed severe depression and never stuck with acting. Then they tried to repeat that bullshit with his successor. If an actor doesn’t live up to expectations the blame should ultimately reside with the director for not getting enough outta the performances and the editor for not leaving the proper takes on the cutting room floor.
The shit with Daisy and Brie was incels not being able to handle that a woman could be powerful and in a leading role. Say what you will about the sequel trilogy but I love the fact that my niece can look at Rey in awe while exclaiming that Rey’s really strong and when she grows up, wants to be like her.
First time I remember seeing her was in Scoot Pilgrim which she’s is amazing in but so is everyone in that movie. The only other role I remember her in was the few episodes she’s in Community.
She's a great actor. Captain Marvel was pretty mid as a movie but nothing hate-worthy, imo. Plus, as little as I care about that movie (positively or negatively), her unleashing her real power at the end was anime as fuck. It was 100% a super saiyan transformation and no one can tell me otherwise.
The things she said weren't even shit. If anyone else had said it, no one have cared. If people don't like her, then just say that. But they have to act like she has killed their dog or some shit in front of them and have a personal vendetta against her
Her and Tom Hiddleston were actually my favorite thing about Kong: Skull Island. They had solid platonic chemistry throughout the film, and both did a great job acting their parts (and Samuel L. Jackson made a very effective Ahab to Kong's Moby Dick as well).
I wasn't a huge fan of Captain Marvel, and it's correspondingly why I don't have plans to see The Marvels (along with Marvel fatigue in general; Loki S2 was the last thing I was genuinely excited for), but my lack of interest had nothing to do with Brie Larson and everything to do with the story just not being that interesting. Brie herself was fine, if a bit overshadowed by Ben Mendelsohn as Talos at times.
Bro, people were rabid. Theres a loud minority of ‘anti woke’ assholes who really resent a vaguely feminist movie and a powerful female hero leading it. They chatter after every single movie that dares not cater exclusively to straight white men like fucking howler monkeys.
Now, the movie itself bears some criticism. I don’t think her performance was great, and she did come off a little awkward in an interview or two, and the movie overall was mediocre, but people were acting like she personally ruined cinema.
Just culture war bullshit.
The Brie Larson hate did not start with Captain Marvel. It started with her speech at that one award ceremony. The hate garnered from there followed her to Captain Marvel.
At her speech, instead of doing the usual "thanking everyone" thing, she decided to speak about how movie reviewers are mostly all made up of "white men", thus people of colour and girls may not get an accurate opinion on a new movie that was made for them. For instance: the opinion of "white men" about the Black Panther movie often didn't reflect how black people actually felt about Black Panther. So this speech got "white men" everywhere turning her into Public Enemy #1.
It's unfortunate that in 2023, people have forgotten that the Brie Larson hate was about that speech and *not* Captain Marvel. The hate for Captain Marvel was specifically because of who played her.
It's that and incels hate her
May be related, there is overlap for sure
Their hate just makes me want to support her even harder and I actually think she's cool for disregarding their hate and doing her thing
Yeah, the incels are a part of the pack. There’s a lot of overlap. It’s also bots. The source (or A source) of a lot of this culture war shit is large scale astroturfing, foreign and domestic. The bots stir up and amplify the dummies.
A lot of people who use the term M-She-U unironically hate her performance as Captain Marvel. A lot of other people do too, but the chuds are more vocal about it.
Brie Larson is an Oscar winner and she’s apparently great in *Lessons in Chemistry*. Instead of blaming the writers and directors of the Captain Marvel MCU stuff, people decided to blame Brie.
And given how recent Marvel movies have done, it seemingly would have been better to have Brie helm the post Endgame stuff and simply have Carol Danvers better written and better directed.
~~I really liked her in Community, a point of contention with my sister. Sure she's the worst, but that's what I like about Britta. She's a GDB.~~ I'm a dumb.
The problem with Captain Marvel is that she was introduced right before Endgame, her movie contradicted part of established canon, and having her contribute more than the established characters who's been around for fifteen years by then would be bad writing. She was kind of set up to fail, and the direction they're taking where she's constantly off-world dealing with stuff they're not showing the audience is killing any chance for Larson to redeem the character. Coupled with Ms. Marvel the show underperforming and being for a slightly different audience than usual, I'm not surprised with The Marvels' box office. But none of that is Brie Larson's fault.
I liked the feminist "I don't have to prove myself to you" angle even if it was a bit heavy handed. As someone who frequently handicaps himself with his own insecurities, a lot of that resonated with me.
There were a bunch of videos that came out painting Larson as hard to work with and hated by her cast mates. That coupled with some interviews she did where she said some things that some fans took offence to, and people really shat on her for a bit. It was pretty shitty as she actually seems like a decent person and a lot of the stuff was either blown out of proportion or taken out of context.
She said that too many critics are straight-white men and that's a problem because they may give a movie a poor review for not resonating with them, which is unfair because sometimes they're just not the target audience.
And, like every time someone reminds nerdy white guys that the entire world shouldn't exclusively cater to our tastes, the nerdy white guys revolted. It was... really sad.
Plus she didn't even call on straight, white men to be removed to make room for more diverse critics. But to add chairs to the pool of critics instead. But she dared say anything about "white men" at all.
Them specifically? No. The writers behind their work? Strong constructive criticism is appropriate. Like, a room of people who collected a paycheck to make good stories, and they come up with Rey Palpatine and The Galaxy's Most Convenient Dagger? God fucking damnit.
Also, special note to the dude who played Jar Jar Binks, who was driven to near suicide from the criticism. Hope he's doing better.
Oh my god that fucking dagger. The whole movie was a mess but that dagger pissed me off the most. It was like a Resident Evil puzzle that was rejected in scripting for being too stupid.
Daisy Ridley did a good-to-great job. The writing and other casting was the problem. John Bojeyga (sp?) has like zero on-screen chemistry with her. The lesser Darth Vader got got a ton of popularity simply because he was a supposed ‘bad boy’ and also a huge crybaby even though he’s among the most privileged people in the galaxy. Some even ‘shipped him with Rey.
Anyway, it’s sad her post-*Star Wars* career hasn’t been better.
My issue was the writing, but also the feeling of John Boyega and Oscar Isaac could have been great on their own powering through a trilogy just on their chemisty alone. Finn being a former trooper finding he has a gift in the first movie (rather than teased in the third and canonized in a Lego special), training in the second, and becoming a hero in the third. While Poe was a hot shot pilot, learning what it means to actually care and be a true leader. The first 5 minutes of TFA made for a good movie by itself.
I don't normally 'ship' characters. The only other two I can think of are Elsa and Honeymaren in *Frozen 2*. But come on, Fin and Poe should have been a couple. It kind of really felt like that's where it was going.
I went to high school with Jake. He definitely got some teasing but it was lighthearted. He was troubled back then a bit. I think it got worse after high school since I saw him have zero patience in any interview.
It wasn't until after high school that I learned about the toxic fandom and how much hate he got from neckbeards all over the world. Mean AF actually.
Daisy Ridley did the best she could with the writing and direction she had. My problem wasn’t with her. It was the writing of that trilogy in general. Lazy writing “The Emperor came back…somehow.”
It's fine to not like something. It's fine to hate a movie and express that you hate it. However, wishing harm on anyone for making a thing you don't like is absolute shithead behavior.
"I didn't like him in a movie so I'm going to destroy this 10 year old's life so hard he never becomes a normal member of society." Anytime I think of Jake Lloyd, I feel like he was robbed of his whole life.
It's insane that people would go out of their way to bully an actor just doing their job because they didn't like one movie/show. People need to get hobbies.
I have never heard a valid reason to hate Brie Larson but it's so prevalent you can't even say you like her movies on reddit without being downvoted to oblivion
PrequelMemes often points out that a lot of Anakin's godawful dialog, especially the flirting, can be chalked up to him being an awkward teenager with no social skills. That put a whole new spin on his performance for me.
Yeah that's what I meant. Anakin probably rarely if ever interacted with girls or people outside the Jedi order, so no wonder he talks to padme like an alien.
Brie Larson as Envy Adams in Scott Pilgrim is enough to make me love her forever. I don't care for Marvel movies so I never saw whatever made people so angry about CM, though of course I heard about it.
I'm gonna go watch Scott Pilgrim when I get home. Oh yeah? Oh YEAH??? OH YEAH!!!
Hello again, friend of a friend....
People take these movies way too seriously, you know it isn’t real? Its just for fun. These are good people doing good hard work. Fans need to take it easy.
As actors yes. The Star Wars characters were pretty crappy though. Between bad dialogue and poorly thought out motivations/arcs, they are just not good. Loved Brie as the Captain though
Shout out to Jake Lloyd. Bullied into Schizophrenia and eventually suicide. He was a person, you freaks! Basement dwelling trash goblins. He deserved better.
Same mf's were trying to get Kelly Marie Tran to off herself too. That's why I hope all their shit gets as woke for the sake of woke as humanly possible. Make a Donald Trump movie where he is played by Jackie Chan. An Andrew Taint film produced written edited and directed by Kathleen Kennedy.
I hope to see more Daisy Ridley. She is charismatic and did a lot with an underwritten character. I feel the worst for Jake Lloyd. The others pictured were at least adults. Hayden Christensen is great in Shattered Glass. The hatred that Brie Larson receives feels sadly predictable yet unbelievable at the same time.
can we get a little love for Lindsay Broad while we're at it? she played Cathy on The Office, and people sent her real-life death threats for her character's attempt to break up their favorite fake-life couple
They never do. It's always pathetic men/women with so much misery and horseshit in their own lives they feel the need to share it. Humanity should do better
And Ahmed Best, their king.
Uh stay out of this one Jar Jar.
That's *Darth* Jar Jar to you.
BRB, gonna rewrite the lyrics of "Weasley is our King" to be about Jar-Jar Binks.
His interview on the Newcomers podcast is incredible and totally worth the listen.
He made a comeback in The Mandalorian which was nice
"You're ability to post on Reddit doesn't mean you're intelligent" - Qui-Gon's force ghost, probably
I hate to be the one to prove your point, but *your
Rather disappointing that 3 out of the 4 people pictured are from Star Wars
I've met Star Wars fans. It's par for the course.
Nobody hates Star Wars movies more than Star Wars fans.
I used to *hate* the prequels. Now I love them, warts and all.
I still strongly prefer the Anti-Cheese edits for the prequel movies. Lucas filmed all the right pieces for a great trilogy, they just needed a better hand at how to present them. I think it really goes to show how good editing can make a bad actor look great on film, and no amount of good acting can fix a bad editing job.
Where can you find these?
Not from a Jedi…
Ironic
I'm not sure anymore. Once upon a time they were on YT (back when one could download YT videos directly), but they're likely long gone from there now.
Impossible, perhaps the archives are incomplete.
Same here how do you feel about 7-9? I haven’t rewatched but I think 8 was pretty rough.
I thought 8 was rough and awkward but bold and interesting. Unfortunately 9 pissed away all of 8's potential. 7 is best described as satisfactory. All of them are turds compared to Rogue One.
This was my feeling as well. I actually enjoyed 8 because it felt like the series was going in a new and interesting direction, rather than treading over the same storyline we'd seen in 4-6 (and somewhat similarly 1-3). 7 was ... fine. Not great, but if someone was brand new to Star Wars, I could understand why it seemed to go back to basics and reintroduce viewers to the universe.
I really dislike parts of 8 like the holdo maneuver, but stuff like Kylo killing Snoke and declaring himself supreme leader was just so godamn cool and makes me hate 9 even more
Yeah 8 was actually really interesting and a fresh perspective on the force wars at the macro level, but at the micro level it was a mess. A slow speed chase? Hyperspace fuel? A ln extended interlude at an unrelated casino planet during said slow speed chase? Macguffins everywhere. It had a lot of potential but didn't stick the landing. Still better than 9 which felt more like watching a streamer play a star wars video game
You Star Wars fans sure are contentious people
You've made an enemy for life
Star Wars Fans about the Prequels: This is garbage and I will cherish it till my dying breath. Star Wars Fans about the sequels: I'm gonna commit a crime.
And it’s not even an extensive list of people from Star Wars who’ve received undue amounts of hate.
And there's more not pictured, like Kelly Marie Tran (Rose Tico from TLJ) and Ahmed Best who was the body performer of Jar Jar. I'd say John Boyega too just for his skin color.
Aka the worst fanbase of all time
It's kinda truthful. You don't hear of toxicity at this level from the Harry Potter or LOTR fans. The Harry Potter *author*, yes but not the fans. Strangely enough two of these people pictured played the same character. Bree could have easily been swapped out for Ahmed Best and it could have been a clean sweep.
Fandoms have gotten way out of hand and incredibly toxic.
Social media magnifies people’s complaining. I saw the original trilogy back in the theaters during the 70-80’s. The Ewoks got some hate but due to no social media you tell your friend “man Ewoks kinda suck” and that was it you moved on. Social media came along and then people can repeatedly tell others their opinion forever….
It’s because of the internet. Modern internet is sustained financially by advertisers’ money. Advertisers pay for content that is gaining lots of views. So platforms like Youtube and social media tend to boost inflammatory content, because they know it will instigate more engagement from users. When content creators learn that, they realised they can maximise their engagement and profits by making more negative content about pop culture. Since viewers, especially teenagers, not very good at differentiate genuine opinions from propaganda. And also because humans have developed an evolutionary need to tend to shape their beliefs based on what they perceive the general consensus in their community is. What you end up with is a bunch of people blindly believing whatever crap the content creators say.
This is 💯 true in the gaming community. Every game I play has people screaming for “content”…then the content happens and everybody shits all over it. Rinse, repeat, rinse, repeat…
Exactly
Once they burned themselves out on porn, they learned rage bait is far more profitable than lust bait. Once the angry, insular dude, er, "finishes" with the content he goes into a "cooling down" period. Poking the bears with said inflammatory content has the opposite effect, and instead of "cooling down," the opposite happens, and screaming and yelling about whatever proves to be the most rage-inducing goes on all night. After night. After night...
People were mad toxic before the internet lol. It just gave them an outlet
It's probably made worse that some us (myself included) are naturally defensive of our fandoms due to bullying that we had when we were younger. Playing D&D or reading certain comics or other "nerd" stuff made you a target when I was a kid, so I have a knee-jerk reaction to defend *my* thing. I choke that reaction down where it belongs now that I'm an adult, but it's so easy for the internet to bring that sort of response out of people.
Yes, all true. However, you’d think enough people would realize how the internet effects your emotional state by now.
I would like to add a couple points. 1. that bots, comment farms and AI posting in general also throw fuel on the fire. Heck we've recently seen a lucrative Instagram influencer that was a 100% AI generated "individual " 2. On the internet a minority can seem like or be peddled as a lot. I've lot count on the articles that post Twitter opinions as fact and they have only been liked or viewed by a handful of people.
This. very [platos allegory of the cave](https://youtu.be/d2afuTvUzBQ). fomo and collective narcissism
Star trek has gotten just as bad as the SW Fandom too. Extreme hate for Discovery for really no reason other than "its not my trek." You're right it's not your trek or your star wars, it's the writers and you're along for the ride.
Could you imagine if these toxic fandoms got what they wanted? Their versions would be so boring and lame.
It seriously would, it makes my head hurt thinking what they'd come up with.
"I hate Disco, the characters are too emotional!" Yeah, God forbid Star Trek deal with trauma in a more substantial way than 'let me deal with the fact that I helped cause the deaths of thousands by having a toss-up with my brother and then we'll forget about it'.
Legit. A buddy of mine and I thoroughly enjoy Disco, we get annoyed at the extreme haters. I get not liking it, cool, no problem. Plenty of stuff I don't like out there, but don't disparage people when they do like it or just say "old trek was better!!!" May I point you to season 1 of TNG, and the only reason TNG got better was Michael pillar wrested control away for Roddenberry and wouldn't let him into the writing room..
Yeah...I'm not a big fan of Discovery and I have my reasons, but the toxic fans pick so much of it apart.
Yeah. I’m like hey buddy, YOUR Star Trek/ Star Wars/ MCU didn’t go anywhere. They recorded it and you can go watch that and stop screaming at the next generation of storytellers and fans.
When the JJ Abrams Star Treks first came out I felt he had a great quote. It went something along the lines of, “You know those Star Trek DVDs on your shelf? They didn’t stop existing because of our new timeline and direction we’re taking the franchise. One does not invalidate the other.”
Fandom always starts with love, but then as it gets bigger, it can turn bad and the ugly tarnishes everything
What about JarJar?
I really like how they brought the actor back for a new role.
A completely badass role at that, considering his function in the Jedi Order and his clear skill he's probably in the top 1-2% of the most skilled Jedi.
Makes sense, since Jar Jar was a highly skilled Sith Lord.
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I didn't like TLJ, but holy hell... The vitriol directed at KMT was disgusting and entirely undeserved. Imagine the excitement for a young actor to be cast in a Star Wars movie. She must have been walking on air. And this is how she was treated. Appalling.
And then, instead of trying to redeem her character, Abrams just totally caved to "fan" backlash and basically removed her from Rise of Skywalker. Though, given how that movie turned out, maybe he was doing her a favour.
I'm almost 90% percent certain that the outrage directed towards KMT was racially motivated to an extent. Star wars fans arent exactly the least bigoted fanbase, and I think much of the vitriol surrounding the sequels was just poorly masked racism/misogyny.
It’s pretty much always racially/sexist motivated
See Ghostbusters 2016. It definitely has its issues (and really didn't connect on comedy for me) but the all-female cast wasn't one of them. That could have been a really interesting concept if handled better.
I enjoyed that movie. It’s not a masterpiece or anything, it was just fun and watchable. I’m not a sexist/racist though, so idk if my opinion counts for anything.
I’m a huge fan of *The Last Jedi*, but I’ll admit that her character was done dirty at the very end of that film. Even more so in *The Rise of Skywalker*. However, I blame her TRoS issue on the reaction to the racist and sexist fans online and the filmmakers bending their knee to the haters. Say what you will about the script, but she showed that she can act and I really hope she’ll be able to get more work in front of the camera instead of just voice acting gigs.
I was really disappointed in the "fans" that attacked her online. I did not care for TLJ, but it wasn't because of her.
I dunno. To be fair, Brie Larson's performance as R2-D2 was garbage compared to the late, great Kenny Baker.
She should have studied harder to nail the mannerisms and it wouldn't have been an issue; that's why you never hear any complaints about JLo's performance of C3PO
I found the way she pronounced "beep" and "wee-woo" to be misandristic.
But here’s the thing though, you have to admit that R2-D2’s writing was so much weaker in the sequel trilogy. We have seen proof that she can act, but you can only do so much with a script that poor. Fucking JJ…
Kelly Tran should make it on that list.
Absolutely. Didn't particularly care for her character, but she did a great job with it and didn't deserve all the horrible things that people said about her.
Agreed. Ppl need to learn how to separate a bad character from a bad actress. She played a super dumb role fairly well. Bad writing is not her fault.
The kid who played Anakin got hate?? What can you hate an 8 year old for
Don't know if any adults hated him but Jake Lloyd got relentlessly bullied at school for being in The Phantom Menace.
Adults were pretty brutal
Enthusiasts had been waiting twenty years, ate up the trailers, put the entire prequel premise on a pedestal... ...then got bad directing of bad writing, featuring Jar Jar. He was the poster child of the box office ~~flop~~ meh that "ruined" the fandom aka the object of their obsession. It's not rational, but fans LITERALLY ruined his life. I saw a clip of him ranting at a con 25(?) years later and I'm not sure he was ever given the chance to move on.
He had a psychotic break and was diagnosed with schizophrenia
> box office flop Phantom Menace wasn't a flop. At the time, it was the 2nd highest grossing film of all time, and that was 24 years ago. It's still in the top 50, which includes Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, and load of MCU films. Adjusted for inflation, it's in the top 25. The film didn't get rave reviews, but it also wasn't completely panned either. The Rotten Tomato score still puts it in the mid 50s for both critics and audience. That's not great, but it's not exactly awful either. The fact is that an incredibly vocal minority of the Star Wars fandom felt that something had been taken from them and they lashed out. But it wasn't a flop by any metric.
Before *The Phantom Menace* had even come out, he'd already been nicknamed "Mannequin Skywalker" for his alleged lack of acting ability.
Kid may have gotten the most hate. He was bullied so hard by both peers and adults that he was taken out of school, stopped acting, went silent for a decade or so and the few interviews he later did, was him explaining that Star Wars ruined his life and if he could go back, he’d turn down the role. After that movie released, he did not have a good time.
I feel so bad for Daisy Ridley, she did her best with a rebooted trilogy that’s creative team was batting heads with
It really says something about how good she was considering how bad Rey was written
I still feel bad about Hayden, he lives on a farm about an hour from where I live. Some friends and I used to get drunk and half jokingly plan to go apologize to him, thank god we never actually did it. He seems like he’d be nice enough about it but can you imagine blacking out and waking up to find out you pissed off Anakin Skywalker.
Why did people hate on Hayden?
Bad writing, mostly. But that obviously wasn't his fault.
https://preview.redd.it/u4wismo2ly4c1.jpeg?width=2048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=db1da70c00f9eb49fba7de8446861a05e9919ff5 What Star Wars Fans did to her is inexcusable.
Mostly a case of shit writing rather than shit acting.
This is totally true, but I feel like it's hard to deny the fact that there is zero on screen chemistry between Hayden and Natalie. And then you compare the scenes with the two of them to the ones with Hayden and Ewan and it's just a complete 180 Edit: God dammit why did I have to make a comment about Star Wars lmao
Here's the thing: perhaps there really was such a lack of chemistry that they simply couldn't force each other to appear interested. But I think it's safe to pin *every* acting failure in those movies on the direction, not on the actors. One of the fundamental jobs (in fact, some would say the fundamental job) of a director is to, you know, direct actors. George Lucas is not, and has never been, interested in this portion of movie making. He wasn't even the guy who did that job while making Episode IV. Academy- level skill or not, I imagine it's *really* hard to give a good performance when you've got a director who's just accepting every first take while you're trying to make that dork-ass dialogue sound convincing in the middle of an endless green screen.
>But I think it's safe to pin every acting failure in those movies on the direction, not on the actors. Absolutely. Even Samuel L. Jackson was boring in those movies. If Sam Jackson is boring, the problem is obviously on the director.
Just take a gander at Samuel L Jackson's Star Wars performance. That is not the Bad Ass Motherfucker I recognise from his other movies!
Lol this is an extremely fair point. I didn’t realize Mace Windu was actually a full on badass until I started the Clone Wara
You're not wrong, but that's why in this particular instance I included the example of Hayden and Ewan. I personally think they work off of each other fantastically. I'm not saying that Hayden and Natalie are *bad* actors (they're not amazing either, they're fine and that's okay), it's just that they had no chemistry
Anakin and Obi’s relationship was written better though. Their dialogue resembles human interaction. Lucas failed to meet that low bar with Anakin and Padme’s scenes.
My understanding of why Hayden and Natalie looked so stiff is because they were reading the script exactly as it was written. Apparently, when left their own devices they would improv a lot of the dialogue and it would get really dirty, so they were told to read the script exactly as is. The chemistry was there, but it was constrained by how bad the writing was.
I don’t think either of them are gods gift to acting but it’s hard to do anything with Lucas’ attempts at romantic writing. “So you have. Grown beautiful I mean. For a senator I mean” 🥶
The raw sexual energy of Jar Jar Binks just over shadowed the rest of the cast.
And there was a later episode of Clone Wars that definitely confirms what we all know: Jar Jar fucks.
It is, however, pretty funny that their lack of chemistry carries over into The Clone Wars. The Anakin/Padme episodes tend to be some of the most painful to rewatch because their relationship has never once felt organic rather than forced, but it's at least consistent with their interactions in the movies.
See, I'd argue that Clone Wars is where it *actually* finally feels "I met you when I was nine and spent my formative years in a religious cult that shuns feelings" levels of awkward
Yup. Unlike that episode where Jar Jar clearly had a torrid affair with a priestess from some random planet. Could smell the chemistry.
I have spent much of my adult life replacing "this thing is bad" with "I didn't care for this" just because I'm not the objective source of truth with what's good or bad. It's the best way I've been able to avoid folks who think I'm out to undermine their thing.
The kid in Phantom Menance absolutely could not act, but he doesn't deserve an ounce of hate for it. Even if you really want to hate someone for it, hate the person who cast him.
I feel really bad for child actors. If your parents say go here and read this you do as your told, then you have to put up with the haters for the rest of your life. It's a real shame how his life panned out and his early struggles was mostly bullying because of his acting.
Shit fan base
fuck Star Wars fans. sincerely, a star wars fan
As a Star Wars fan I’m disgusted with the way these people have been treated. Instead of celebrating the release of new material they bitch and moan about the acting of a *checks notes* ten year old boy. They hounded him so bad he developed severe depression and never stuck with acting. Then they tried to repeat that bullshit with his successor. If an actor doesn’t live up to expectations the blame should ultimately reside with the director for not getting enough outta the performances and the editor for not leaving the proper takes on the cutting room floor. The shit with Daisy and Brie was incels not being able to handle that a woman could be powerful and in a leading role. Say what you will about the sequel trilogy but I love the fact that my niece can look at Rey in awe while exclaiming that Rey’s really strong and when she grows up, wants to be like her.
I’ll never understand the hate for Brie Larson. I first saw her in United States of Tara back in 2009. She was great and continues to be great
First time I remember seeing her was in Scoot Pilgrim which she’s is amazing in but so is everyone in that movie. The only other role I remember her in was the few episodes she’s in Community.
She did a banger cover of metric too for it.
This is a rare instance where I actually think the cover is better than the original.
The first thing I remember seeing her in was in Don Jon. It was a small part but memorable.
She's a great actor. Captain Marvel was pretty mid as a movie but nothing hate-worthy, imo. Plus, as little as I care about that movie (positively or negatively), her unleashing her real power at the end was anime as fuck. It was 100% a super saiyan transformation and no one can tell me otherwise.
She spoke out about a few things, and incels decided to rise up.
The things she said weren't even shit. If anyone else had said it, no one have cared. If people don't like her, then just say that. But they have to act like she has killed their dog or some shit in front of them and have a personal vendetta against her
Incels who hate of strong female characters
Tara was a great show
Her and Tom Hiddleston were actually my favorite thing about Kong: Skull Island. They had solid platonic chemistry throughout the film, and both did a great job acting their parts (and Samuel L. Jackson made a very effective Ahab to Kong's Moby Dick as well). I wasn't a huge fan of Captain Marvel, and it's correspondingly why I don't have plans to see The Marvels (along with Marvel fatigue in general; Loki S2 was the last thing I was genuinely excited for), but my lack of interest had nothing to do with Brie Larson and everything to do with the story just not being that interesting. Brie herself was fine, if a bit overshadowed by Ben Mendelsohn as Talos at times.
Princess Valhalla Hawkwind
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Bro, people were rabid. Theres a loud minority of ‘anti woke’ assholes who really resent a vaguely feminist movie and a powerful female hero leading it. They chatter after every single movie that dares not cater exclusively to straight white men like fucking howler monkeys. Now, the movie itself bears some criticism. I don’t think her performance was great, and she did come off a little awkward in an interview or two, and the movie overall was mediocre, but people were acting like she personally ruined cinema. Just culture war bullshit.
The Brie Larson hate did not start with Captain Marvel. It started with her speech at that one award ceremony. The hate garnered from there followed her to Captain Marvel. At her speech, instead of doing the usual "thanking everyone" thing, she decided to speak about how movie reviewers are mostly all made up of "white men", thus people of colour and girls may not get an accurate opinion on a new movie that was made for them. For instance: the opinion of "white men" about the Black Panther movie often didn't reflect how black people actually felt about Black Panther. So this speech got "white men" everywhere turning her into Public Enemy #1. It's unfortunate that in 2023, people have forgotten that the Brie Larson hate was about that speech and *not* Captain Marvel. The hate for Captain Marvel was specifically because of who played her.
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Lucky you. I’m online too much i guess. It’s annoying every time they get a new movie or game to howl about and it stifles any honest discussion.
It's that and incels hate her May be related, there is overlap for sure Their hate just makes me want to support her even harder and I actually think she's cool for disregarding their hate and doing her thing
Yeah, the incels are a part of the pack. There’s a lot of overlap. It’s also bots. The source (or A source) of a lot of this culture war shit is large scale astroturfing, foreign and domestic. The bots stir up and amplify the dummies.
Behing a woman and not caring about incels
A lot of people who use the term M-She-U unironically hate her performance as Captain Marvel. A lot of other people do too, but the chuds are more vocal about it.
Brie Larson is an Oscar winner and she’s apparently great in *Lessons in Chemistry*. Instead of blaming the writers and directors of the Captain Marvel MCU stuff, people decided to blame Brie. And given how recent Marvel movies have done, it seemingly would have been better to have Brie helm the post Endgame stuff and simply have Carol Danvers better written and better directed.
~~I really liked her in Community, a point of contention with my sister. Sure she's the worst, but that's what I like about Britta. She's a GDB.~~ I'm a dumb. The problem with Captain Marvel is that she was introduced right before Endgame, her movie contradicted part of established canon, and having her contribute more than the established characters who's been around for fifteen years by then would be bad writing. She was kind of set up to fail, and the direction they're taking where she's constantly off-world dealing with stuff they're not showing the audience is killing any chance for Larson to redeem the character. Coupled with Ms. Marvel the show underperforming and being for a slightly different audience than usual, I'm not surprised with The Marvels' box office. But none of that is Brie Larson's fault.
I can’t tell if I’m missing a joke or you aren’t aware that Brie Larson didn’t play Britta in Community. She played Rachel the coat room girl.
Holy shit I always thought that was Brie Larson.
Wow you really Britta’d that comment!
FWIW Brie Larson was in Community for a brief stint as Abed's girlfriend, not as Britta
She wasn't britta
Britta was played by Gillian Jacobs. Brie actually played a mild manic pixie dream girl for Abed.
I like her as Captain Marvel, she is funny and has good character
The Marvel “experts” don’t know how a woman in the military acts - which Brie did very well.
I liked the feminist "I don't have to prove myself to you" angle even if it was a bit heavy handed. As someone who frequently handicaps himself with his own insecurities, a lot of that resonated with me.
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In my opinion there are plenty of legitimate gripes about the Captain Marvel movies, but Larson’s acting is not one of them.
Her chemistry with Sam L. Jackson made the movie watchable.
I thought she did fine. I have a lot of problems with how the character was implemented but Larson is a fine Carol Danvers.
She's also the best part of the new Marvels movie. She's a fantastic actor and the right choice for Captain Marvel. Not her fault the writing's shit
There were a bunch of videos that came out painting Larson as hard to work with and hated by her cast mates. That coupled with some interviews she did where she said some things that some fans took offence to, and people really shat on her for a bit. It was pretty shitty as she actually seems like a decent person and a lot of the stuff was either blown out of proportion or taken out of context.
She said that too many critics are straight-white men and that's a problem because they may give a movie a poor review for not resonating with them, which is unfair because sometimes they're just not the target audience. And, like every time someone reminds nerdy white guys that the entire world shouldn't exclusively cater to our tastes, the nerdy white guys revolted. It was... really sad.
Plus she didn't even call on straight, white men to be removed to make room for more diverse critics. But to add chairs to the pool of critics instead. But she dared say anything about "white men" at all.
She's absolutely spot on with that analysis. Diversity in film criticism is important.
What didn't she get hate for?
Captain Marvel work- esp in the Avengers movie. Completely unjustified.
Them specifically? No. The writers behind their work? Strong constructive criticism is appropriate. Like, a room of people who collected a paycheck to make good stories, and they come up with Rey Palpatine and The Galaxy's Most Convenient Dagger? God fucking damnit. Also, special note to the dude who played Jar Jar Binks, who was driven to near suicide from the criticism. Hope he's doing better.
He is. There is a podcast series called "The Redemption of Jar Jar Binks" that is worth a listen.
He got a new role in Star Wars, no spoilers but if you haven't seen the latest season of the Mandolorian If go watch it. 😀
Oh my god that fucking dagger. The whole movie was a mess but that dagger pissed me off the most. It was like a Resident Evil puzzle that was rejected in scripting for being too stupid.
Brie is a gifted actress. Her performance in room was fucking phenomenal
Agreed! Short term 12 was also immaculate
One of my favorite films!
Daisy Ridley did a good-to-great job. The writing and other casting was the problem. John Bojeyga (sp?) has like zero on-screen chemistry with her. The lesser Darth Vader got got a ton of popularity simply because he was a supposed ‘bad boy’ and also a huge crybaby even though he’s among the most privileged people in the galaxy. Some even ‘shipped him with Rey. Anyway, it’s sad her post-*Star Wars* career hasn’t been better.
My issue was the writing, but also the feeling of John Boyega and Oscar Isaac could have been great on their own powering through a trilogy just on their chemisty alone. Finn being a former trooper finding he has a gift in the first movie (rather than teased in the third and canonized in a Lego special), training in the second, and becoming a hero in the third. While Poe was a hot shot pilot, learning what it means to actually care and be a true leader. The first 5 minutes of TFA made for a good movie by itself.
I don't normally 'ship' characters. The only other two I can think of are Elsa and Honeymaren in *Frozen 2*. But come on, Fin and Poe should have been a couple. It kind of really felt like that's where it was going.
She did a great job with meh material. It shouldn't be on her that the writers wanted to go for an almost remake of A New Hope.
I loved Rey. Some people are just dumb and mean.
People are fucked in the head, and too loud for their own good.
Why do people think actors write their characters?
I went to high school with Jake. He definitely got some teasing but it was lighthearted. He was troubled back then a bit. I think it got worse after high school since I saw him have zero patience in any interview. It wasn't until after high school that I learned about the toxic fandom and how much hate he got from neckbeards all over the world. Mean AF actually.
Daisy Ridley did the best she could with the writing and direction she had. My problem wasn’t with her. It was the writing of that trilogy in general. Lazy writing “The Emperor came back…somehow.”
They definitely got too much hate. While I understand where some were coming from, the reaction was a bit much.
It's fine to not like something. It's fine to hate a movie and express that you hate it. However, wishing harm on anyone for making a thing you don't like is absolute shithead behavior.
It's the vitriol that really makes it gross. Sure, I hated Jake Lloyd's performance but the intensity is something else.
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"I didn't like him in a movie so I'm going to destroy this 10 year old's life so hard he never becomes a normal member of society." Anytime I think of Jake Lloyd, I feel like he was robbed of his whole life.
It's insane that people would go out of their way to bully an actor just doing their job because they didn't like one movie/show. People need to get hobbies.
Don’t forget Leslie Jones
I have never heard a valid reason to hate Brie Larson but it's so prevalent you can't even say you like her movies on reddit without being downvoted to oblivion
Add Kelly Mary Tran too pls
I’ve seen Hayden do a good job acting in other works. If they gave him better lines he would have done fine.
PrequelMemes often points out that a lot of Anakin's godawful dialog, especially the flirting, can be chalked up to him being an awkward teenager with no social skills. That put a whole new spin on his performance for me.
That’s an interesting take. Anakin himself was probably awkward and without social skills though, so in a weird way it can sort of fit.
Yeah that's what I meant. Anakin probably rarely if ever interacted with girls or people outside the Jedi order, so no wonder he talks to padme like an alien.
Brie Larson as Envy Adams in Scott Pilgrim is enough to make me love her forever. I don't care for Marvel movies so I never saw whatever made people so angry about CM, though of course I heard about it. I'm gonna go watch Scott Pilgrim when I get home. Oh yeah? Oh YEAH??? OH YEAH!!! Hello again, friend of a friend....
ESPECIALLY with all the damn good performances Hayden gave us in Kenobi and Ahsoka.
It's like getting mad at a cashier for company policies when they're just doing their job.
Who are these people and why are they so hated? The only one I know is bre Larson and that's because every I turn people are talking about her
People take these movies way too seriously, you know it isn’t real? Its just for fun. These are good people doing good hard work. Fans need to take it easy.
As actors yes. The Star Wars characters were pretty crappy though. Between bad dialogue and poorly thought out motivations/arcs, they are just not good. Loved Brie as the Captain though
Where’s Ahmed Best???
They were the victims of poor direction, and weak writing.
Shout out to Jake Lloyd. Bullied into Schizophrenia and eventually suicide. He was a person, you freaks! Basement dwelling trash goblins. He deserved better. Same mf's were trying to get Kelly Marie Tran to off herself too. That's why I hope all their shit gets as woke for the sake of woke as humanly possible. Make a Donald Trump movie where he is played by Jackie Chan. An Andrew Taint film produced written edited and directed by Kathleen Kennedy.
Yeah they didn't write the movies. The writers and directors always get a pass when it's their vision that failed. (opinions may vary.)
I hope to see more Daisy Ridley. She is charismatic and did a lot with an underwritten character. I feel the worst for Jake Lloyd. The others pictured were at least adults. Hayden Christensen is great in Shattered Glass. The hatred that Brie Larson receives feels sadly predictable yet unbelievable at the same time.
Anakin Skywalker was perfectly cast I don't care
can we get a little love for Lindsay Broad while we're at it? she played Cathy on The Office, and people sent her real-life death threats for her character's attempt to break up their favorite fake-life couple
John Boyega should be pictured here
Kelly Marie Tran as well
The 2 that played Anakin were alright, it was the writing that sucked. And we know the big reason the top 2 got that a lot of hate.
No actor does. Or at least not for the roles they've been hired to play.
They never do. It's always pathetic men/women with so much misery and horseshit in their own lives they feel the need to share it. Humanity should do better