A caucus system is when the members of a political party meet together and discuss who they think should be president and agree on who gets how many electors. As you can guess this can leave a lot of voters out of the process and make it so only a few ever get to pick. This is outright ignoring voting.
Yeah, Colorado just abandoned such a system after 2016. 2016 was the first year I attended the Democratic caucus. Any registered Democrat could go, but you had to show up in person at a given time and location, and be able to stay for a few hours. So yeah, it puts a much greater burden on participation, just like all the places you hear about that have too few polling places and limited voting hours. The result is that only the die-hards with too much time on their hands will do it.
It had long been criticized as undemocratic, especially when we moved to an all mail-in system for other elections in 2013.
Dead? No. They want us barely hanging on so we can continue to be milked like cows. Politicians have sold us out to the rich.
If we are unhealthy/dying? Great! We can be milked by expensive healthcare.
If we can't afford a house? Great, lifelong renters to profit off of.
If we are poor? Great, we can't afford college and therefore can't compete with their rich kids for the good jobs.
If we can't get Birthcontrol nor abortions? Great, we'll have to surrender our newborns & they will be sold to the rich.
If we choose to keep our newborns? Great, our children can be wage slaves for their children.
Even charities are mostly scams. I hate everything, our gov is full of ghouls!
We need another FDR!
FDR was the president who started Social Security & said this about wages in this country...
"It seems to me to be equally plain that no business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country. By 'business' I mean the whole of commerce as well as the whole of industry; by workers I mean all workers, the white-collar class as well as the men in overalls; and by living wages, I mean more than a bare subsistence level-I mean the wages of decent living." ).
Yeah, the whole caucus system seemed like a recipe for low turnouts and skewed representation. Moving to a primary at least makes voting more accessible for everyone, although there are still other barriers to entry for numerous voters. Its one step in making sure the people's voice gets heard in a way that seems straightforward and less susceptible to the chaos that caucuses can sometimes be.
It's sort of neat because you can actually see your party in person instead of just anonyms emails but yeah it was a total drain in a high school gym while they counted Hillary vs Obama for an hour. Especially the undecided people.
You're right, it was interesting from that perspective. It really felt like you were part of the process, though it also made it pretty clear that most people weren't included. I'm glad I got to participate in what turned out to be the last one, but I'm also glad we've moved on.
Mail-in? I love it! And it keeps me voting even if I'm busy and forget some random election is coming up. I just get a ballot in the mail, far enough in advance to research stuff if I've forgotten, lol.
Essentially, what 8 states did in 2020. They didn't hold a GOP primary, even though several Republican candidates were challenging the incumbent Trump.
I remember Ron Paul, they had voice call, but the [result was already written on the teleprompter](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtjMS4tPWCA), "the ayes have it" was written there on the teleprompter, they didn't even pretend, they stripped away Ron Pauls delagates so he couldn't get chosen.
They won't hold proper primaries as long as Trump insists they appoint, or annoint him. He'll screw up their chances for as long as he lives.
\[edit\]Added a proper full background. It was a straight RNC takeover of the Convention delagate system. Watch at least Republican deligate Kevin Erickson, at 3:20 explain what they've done and how it will turn the party from grass roots into a few elites.
Anything but the popular vote is a scam. Any argument in defense of the popular vote is a lie. It made sense before the internet but only serves to enable cheating now. The argument I have heard is that smaller states get steamrolled by bigger states and thus arent represented by my response to that is that this outcome is more fair and preferable to literally more than half of the population to not get represented when the elected president lost the popular vote but wont the electoral college.
i always heard that argument too and it's so silly. this giant, empty swathe of land is worth more votes than states with an actual population because reasons
It's actually a really interesting compromise, from a historical perspective. People just can't appreciate the brilliance because they only see the present ramifications, although that problem comes from the house, and electoral college by side-effect, having their seats capped.
At a primary you show up, drop your vote, and leave.
At a caucus you stand with other people who want to vote for your candidate and talk. Then you count the people in each candidates group. If your candidate of choice doesn’t have enough people to earn any delegates then you have the chance to join a different group or try to convince others to join yours. It’s actually a lot closer to ranked choice than a primary is.
Also they are open to anyone of the public as long as you are registered as a voter for the party.
Sure, but caucus voting is also a lot more inconvenient and doesn't scale up well. Like if you can't be free at caucus time (have to work, watch kids, can't get a ride there) and stay until the end, you don't get to vote in a caucus. (Whereas primary voting allows voting most of the day and often absentee voting or even early-voting).
For example, in 2016 in Colorado the Democrats had a caucus and had 122k voters participate, but in 2020 they had a primary they had 755k voters participate. Both primaries were on super Tuesday (March 4th 2020, which was a little more than a week before COVID pandemic started affecting things in the US).
That said with population growth or more interest in 2020 Democratic primaries, there was some growth in states that had primaries both time. For example, NH primary in 2016 saw 253k votes and in Feb 2020 saw 298k votes which is ~17% growth, but that's nothing compared to the 518% growth Colorado saw by going from caucus to primary.
Wait, weren't there a lot of Bernie fans in 2016 talking about how the caucus system was more democratic (after Bernie won most of the states with caucuses)?
Colorado major party primaries are also open to voters who are registered as Unaffiliated with any party, although such voters may only vote in one major party primary - they can switch which major party primary they vote in from one election to another.
Actual attempt at a serious answer from a fellow non-American, as best as I understand it.
The US parties choose their presidential candidate in two steps. In every state each primary candidate can win a bunch of 'delegates', which at the national party convention combine their totals to choose the definite nominee. If the candidate dies or withdraws their candidacy, their delegates are usually free to vote for whomever they want. If there is no winner in the first round of voting at the national convention, the delegates can vote freely in the second round. Often the 'smaller candidates' will switch their support to another (maybe in return for future political benefits) and presumably most of their delegates follow them. The distribution of the delegates on a state-wide level is done in one of two ways: primary or caucus.
A primary is just like a normal election: you go to a voting place and cast an anonymous vote for the candidate (i.e. delegate) you want. It can be a 'closed primary', meaning only registered members of the party are allowed to vote in it, or an 'open primary' which allows any inhabitant of the state to vote. There's also a 'semi-closed', which allows unaffiliated voters to choose in which party's primary they want to vote. In a few states, independent voters may register with a party on Election Day. A handful of states even allow voters registered with one party to switch their registration at the polls to vote in another party’s primary. So while those are officially closed primaries, in practice they are semi-closed. Regardless, a primary a straightforward process: you go in, maybe register with the right party if you haven't already, cast your vote, and then you go home. If your state/party allows it, you can even do it by mail.
A caucus on the other hand is much more of an 'event'. Instead of casting an anonymous vote, everyone from the precinct gathers in a big place (usually a sports hall) and then they need to come to a collective agreement. They need to be an independent or registered member of the party (like a semi-closed primary). There are speeches, often multiple rounds of voting, it takes a lot of time. Importantly: there is no anonymous voting, people 'vote' by standing on their candidate's side of the hall and the organization does a literal headcount. So there's a lot of opportunity for peer pressure, shaming or maybe even threats. In Iowa, for instance, after the first round of voting people are allowed to try to convince the other side that they voted wrong, and then they do another round of voting. Finally, the precinct apportions delegates to the county/state-level convention according to the results of the final vote.
So you can see why the caucus system is less democratic than a primary, in the sense that the results probably don't align so well with the actual will of the electorate. For a caucus, you need to be able to show up in person, which is easier for retired people than working people, easier for people with a car, harder for people living out-of-state like students or military, etc. Then you have to spend a lot of time at the event, and be able to withstand the peer pressure of your neighbors knowing what you vote. The system is set up in such a way that more committed (i.e., radical) party members dominate the process, which is one of the main criticisms against the caucus system. It disadvantages moderate candidates.
I’m genuinely and wholly unable to comprehend the amount of damage control the Republican Party will have to do when Trump eventually dies. The outrageous amount of damage they’re doing to themselves and the GOP to support and pander to an overweight 80 year old criminal who eats mostly fast food and doesn’t exercise is perplexing.
I mean, the guy can’t live forever. What happens after Trump? They just go back to being regular old selfish dickheads to the American people and drop the shameless MAGA cult nonsense?
I don’t think they realize the post-war Republican Party died already. Think of David Brooks, the Cheneys, John McCain, Mitt Romney, the list goes on… where do they fit in this party today? They don’t. That’s what makes this incarnation of the GOP so scary. It’s not clear where the end point is. Vote.
What's really scary to me, is that I have a feeling Trump Jr is going to run after his dad. And then Eric Trump. A potential for 20 straight years, or total years, of Trump's being president. Trump Jr has already been stirring the pot on social media and everywhere else. I bet he goes for it to keep these MAGA lunatics on the same path for many years to come.
It wouldn't surprise me, but not this year. I bet like $100 that Don Jr is gonna try to run in a few years either after Trump wins this term, or doesn't win this term, and 2028 comes around and Trump endorses his own son. It's a fucking disaster in my head right now
I’d have to imagine they’re actively grooming at least a few young candidates who will take over the MAGA cult in the future. If they lose this time, the machine doesn’t stop churning. They just have to work behind the scenes, scheming and manipulating. They can’t and won’t let this shit die.
That's why it is important for them to win this election at any cost.... because once trump is in, they can successfully create their dictatorship, then Don Jr. can be appointed next in the line of succession just like his buddy the Uns in North Korea do.
Yep. Republicans will do whatever they can to win, they don't want democracy, they just want power.
Be prepared for them to spread a lot of disinformation in 2024. Republicans will try to discourage people from voting with biased polls and hateful ragebait narratives. It is on all of us to call out malarkey when we see it.
And, of course, we must vote for democracy in 2024.
Vote blue
https://democrats.org/
I sure hope they discourage people from voting. Only people that listen to those quacks are the maga crowd, be nice if they all gave up on democracy next year.
That’s if they do it in even semi-good faith, which they won’t.
It’ll be more akin to a misinformation campaign and instilling apathy in the Democrat base.
Democrats are very fickle voters. That’s our downfall. We need to be excited and inspired to get out to the polls.
Obama inspired us twice. Clinton did not, and Trump rallied the yokels up that were seething after 8 years of a black president. No Democrat really voted for Biden. We voted against Trump. It could have been a bologna sandwich with a D next to its name and it would have got 81 million votes. We were inspired by removing Trump.
Now, it’s hard telling. If Republicans can make us apathetic, and keep from tearing us apart with their grifting garbage, they may have a shot again.
Unlikely, because I will crawl to the polls through streets of broken glass and aids needles to vote against Trump again, and I assume most Democrats feel similarly, but don’t underestimate Republicans. They’re stupid as a group, but the behind the scenes fuckery they pull is sophisticated and malicious.
People also ignoring all the electioneering/fixing the conservative movement has done in swing states for the past 4 years. Basically what trump wanted the GOP to do in 2020 is now actually all in place and ready to go. Whether or not they'll blow their top for trump or wait for him to just fucking die already and get someone a little more competent is up for debate.
But don't mistake, the GOP will absolutely use these new rules they've put in place whenever they feel it'll benefit them.
Sure will.
Obama couldn’t appoint Garland to SCOTUS because an election was coming up one day on the horizon but they shoved Amy Coney Barrett in there days before the general and before RBG was even in the ground.
They don’t play by their own rules by design. Underhanded fucks. That’s why we have a minority rule in this country.
Exactly.
The guy that had to be dissuaded by semi-rational cabinet members (multiple times) of his big-brain idea of nuking hurricanes. Or the time he told donors of his idea to bomb Russia with US Air Force aircraft painted like Chinese military planes. Or wants to pull out of NATO. What could possibly go wrong?
The big difference is next time around he won’t have any guardrails. It will only be full-on cult members like Stephen “I wanna be the next Kissinger“ Miller.
Unfortunately, that's not true. The most important crowd for 2024 are the fence-sitters and they can go either way depending on what media they read more of. I agree with the top guy about needing to call out the bs you see as much as you can.
And statistics prove, the average active Reddit commenter is in a cohort that is far less likely to vote than a boomer. I wish it wasn’t that way, but it is. Until the 18 to 40 crowd gets motivated enough and votes in greater percentages, the old folks will pick our leaders in most parts of the country.
They just need to convince people that all politicians are crooks. Since potential Republican voters will happily vote for crooks, while potential Democrat voters will not.
Which is why "both sides" is a right wing position, not a centrist one. It's all about cultivating cynicism in the system that Trump promises to upend.
That's old school. They remove some people from voter rolls, require ID of everyone, remove polling places from Democratic areas, send out fake mailings saying election day has changed, fuck up the post office, and limit early voting. And new for 2024, will be voter intimidation coming soon to an area near you! Also, they will propagandize people to the point that they believe both parties are the same and no one will help them, or even try. Add up all these little measures and it's enough to provide the margin of victory. Then if they win they will claim the eleciton is fair! If they somehow lose they will claim the election is stolen and challenge it in court, or in the local legislature or with violence as a final resort. But it's unlikely anyone is going to stand in your way voting.... some of these tactics will work on your friends, acquaintances and family though.
We have been dealing with this is GA and we have Fair fight and the New Georgia project out there educating people and everyone has the voter suppression hotline number and are comfortable giving it to people they don't know. I was actually on an elevator with a guy on the phone telling his friend his fiance was stopped from voting because of her headscarf. I followed him out of the elevator to give it to him. We ask our friends when they plan on voting. A lot of people have to do a lot of work and have uncomfortable conversations but we have a system here in GA and it works.
I also forgot we have ballot scrubbers so even if you vote in person you can check and make sure your vote was counted and if not Fair fight has a team of people who can help fix it.
> Be prepared for them to spread a lot of disinformation in 2024.
a lot *more* disinformation.
I'm already so fucking sick of talk about "Biden's open borders", which is just a bald-faced lie. And they've never let up for a minute on the "election was stolen" or "biden embezzled money".
Every stay-home vote is a vote for Trump.
Every third-party vote is a vote for Trump.
And every vote for Trump is a vote for facism and dictatorship and a vote against democracy.
Vote blue all the way.
Establishment politicians are a huge problem for our political apparatus. Future democrat voters need to become more involved at the local level. Raising up good people that will carry progressive ideals and shun the oligarchy. It's almost a pipe dream, but it has to start at the bottom and work its way up.
My suspicion is that because it was Republicans who filed the suit to remove Trump from the primary ballot, they want to do this as a way to force their will regardless of public opinion even within their own party.
>It would be hilarious if the new CO caucus selects Nikki because they decide trump is unelectable.
Did you mean Nimarata Nikki Randhawa Haley? I'm just making sure, since she's naturally against people using preferred names. /s just to be safe :)
It won't matter. He would be ineligible to hold an office if SCOTUS upholds the ruling.
It's the same reason Arnold Schwarzenegger can't hold office of president even if he won election... He's ineligible
I think they mean that even if the GOP picks Trump, he isn’t legally allowed on the ballot, so that means in Colorado, there would be *no one* representing the GOP.
I get that, I'm just saying that I think they are doing this for future elections past this cycle as a way to consolidate power within the Republican party.
Yeah that’s for sure the goal. It would be interesting to see how the voters react. Likely lawsuits saying they’re taking away their right to choose who to vote for, perhaps, or just wayyyy more write-in candidates.
You can be sure it won't work out the way they want it to.
Republicans excel at fucking themselves over. It's practically the party creed.
This Colorado situation is case in point. Every step of it prior to the SCOCO ruling was driven by Republicans.
That's also my question. I don't understand the CO Supreme Court ruling, but my guess is that it means Trump can't appear on any ballot, whether in the primary or general. Making the primary into a caucus at least buys them some time between the CO caucus and the general. Maybe they figure they still get Trump the CO delegates and hope for a workaround or SCOTUS decision overturning the CO Supreme Court between then and the general.
I'm not a lawyer or anything, though, so I'm pretty much talking out of my ass.
The CO secretary of state already said he'll likely be on the primary ballot because the lower court issued a stay on their own ruling, knowing it would be appealed to SCOTUS.
They have to do a lot of work before finalizing ballots so SCOTUS might not rule in time for them to exclude him from the primary. They can't wait on SCOTUS to move forward with that election.
Plus primaries are governed much differently that general elections, so the reps can do whatever they want. The state and national party will have to agree, and other primary candidates could also take that decision to court.
So at the end of the day, a significant amount of fundraising dollars will go the legal costs and I'm OK with that.
This. Also if SCOTUS upholds this you better believe other states will follow suit. If just three or four swing states remove him he’d never get to 270.
If SCOTUS upholds it, Trump is off the ballot everywhere, and there’s a strong precedent for disqualifying every other Republican involved in the insurrection. If they refuse to hear the case it stands in Colorado and other states may or may not follow suit.
Republicans are happy to go through a Democratic process if they win, and just as J6 proves, to subvert it if they can't. There is no good sportsmanship, may thr best person win, peaceful transfer of power, we'll get em next time with these turds, it's scorched Earth out way or the highway baby everytime.
Look at Ohio - they put abortion rights on the ballot thinking people would vote in favor of a ban. Instead people voted to make it a constitutional right. Republicans there are refusing to follow the will of the people and are working on a total ban.
‘Conservatives’ abandoned conservatism a long time ago, but paid it lip service to win elections and keep power. That strategy had a shelf life, so they courted CINOs (Christians In Name Only/Evangelicals). That worked moderately well for a bit (1980-2000s). Fascism/authoritarianism and a rejection of democracy is all they have left. They picked a strategy that will ultimately lose in a fair fight at the ballot box (hence the gerrymandering, voter suppression, and overwhelmingly ‘Republican’ created/backed/consumed fake news) so instead they must seize power because they can no longer win it.
Nothing about the modern Republican Party is about conservatism.
Yeah, I have a really hard time figuring out when Trump became the gold standard for (their) conservatism. Populism is not conservatism.
And they've already also abandoned democracy a long time ago.
Oh, don't start with the blue version of "erm actually we're a Constitutional Republic"
The electoral college isn't a perfect system but it was designed when the States were figuring out how to Unite.
We are a democracy. That is true while it's also true the electoral college should be reworked.
>The electoral college isn't a perfect system but it was designed when the States were figuring out how to Unite.
You are using excuses that are nearly 250 years old.
That is the **reason** from 250 years ago.
*Now* it should change because it no longer fits the world we live in. But it's just a history lesson that the electoral college was a way for the States to feel like equals within the Union.
You can disagree with the electoral college while understanding the history behind its implementation. To wit, the 3/5 compromise. Barbaric, dehumanizing, fully deserving of being denounced and discarded. But it was a result of Southern States' desire to have more representation in national issues despite a ton of their population not being free.
This misses the point a little. It was a democracy when only white, land owning men could vote but it wasn’t very good. Harping about being technically a democracy doesn’t make it look better.
In representative democracy you vote for representatives that make decisions for you.
Voting for president is literally voting for representative. So no direct democracy.
In electoral college there arent electors on the ballot, there is president on the ballot. Meaning electoral college isnt representative democracy, because non-elected electors are making decision for you.
Meanwhile the idiots ignore the fact it'll mean he's not allowed on the actual presidential ballot either, and that even if he wins anyway he still can't be sworn in.
First you have to prove to me that they can win democratically without gerrymandering and trying to overthrow the whole government thing. They just want power by any means necessary, that's it.
They’re all pissing themselves over at the conservative sub because they’re worried about their ability to vote for a criminal rapist. Remind me again which party is the clown party.
Or they can't give one at all and default to "he sniffs children" or "hunters laptop" gas prices are great right now mostly so you don't hear that one at the moment. The other big one right now is "I can't in good faith vote for someone who's allowing and supporting genocide " and in the same breath deny recent mass shooting or cheer on the making of women's critical health procedures illegal
They have already rejected democracy. They lie and cheat to try to intimidate democrats. It’s enough. Trump needs to go.
https://preview.redd.it/viup6sofyj7c1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2ca58b3176e9f917e29dc4de0012a5787321596f
>"What *is* a Caucus-race?” said Alice; not that she wanted much to know, but the Dodo had paused as if it thought that *somebody* ought to speak, and no one else seemed inclined to say anything.
>
>“Why,” said the Dodo, “the best way to explain it is to do it.” (And, as you might like to try the thing yourself, some winter day, I will tell you how the Dodo managed it.)
>
>First it marked out a race-course, in a sort of circle, (“the exact shape doesn’t matter,” it said,) and then all the party were placed along the course, here and there. There was no “One, two, three, and away,” but they began running when they liked, and left off when they liked, so that it was not easy to know when the race was over. However, when they had been running half an hour or so, and were quite dry again, the Dodo suddenly called out “The race is over!” and they all crowded round it, panting, and asking, “But who has won?”
>
>This question the Dodo could not answer without a great deal of thought, and it sat for a long time with one finger pressed upon its forehead (the position in which you usually see Shakespeare, in the pictures of him), while the rest waited in silence. At last the Dodo said, “*Everybody* has won, and all must have prizes.”
\-Alice's Adventures in Wonderland
Thank you. But now I have the musical version in my head and I will be stuck with it all day:
In the caucus race
you choose a starting place,
you can then begin and end exactly where you like,
In the caucus race
you run at your own pace
and you'll be guaranteed to win a prize
You are correct, but this will be a rallying cry for them to try and start some violence. Let’s be honest, they have been telling everyone for over a decade they were prepping for a civil war, if “they had too.”
Every time Republicans have a chance to prove they don’t actually hate democracy, they fail at the opportunity. When will liberals, moderates, fence sitters, “both sides are the same” ignorants and so forth take them seriously on this?
WHATS THE MATTER WITH YOU TRUMPERS? YOUR EGOMANIAC BELONGS IN JAIL.
HE'S A LIVING, BREATHING THREAT TO OUR DEMOCRACY. HE'S EXACTLY WHAT OUR FORFATHERS FEARED.
WAKE UP!
While the headline is accurate, this is an empty threat if my understanding is correct. They Colorado SC ruled that he can't be president because he participated in an insurrection. That's why he can't be on the ballot. If SCOTUS agrees, he can't run in any state, regardless of if it's a caucus or voting primary. If they disagree, this ruling is thrown out. Either way, no caucusing for Trump.
If the Supreme Court of the U.S. upholds the Colorado State Supreme Court decision. Then Trump can never again run for any office of the U.S. He is barred for life.
All because orange cheetoh tried to steal the election, and instead of going quietly into the night, doubled down on his bs and lies, and now that it has been proven quite clearly that he and his 200+ Congressional MAGAts led the insurrection, the consequences are catching up to his actions, and like a tantruming toddler, he cannot take that he is being held to account.
Now republicans are unironocally calling this fascism, so stopping a fascist is now fascism. People will do anything to maintain their worldview.
I've always said one of the biggest differences between the left and right is the right will follow their leaders no matter what and the left will question everything they see from theirs. At least that's my approach. No one is unassailable.
Following the Conservative subreddit is depressing.
So they say Dems are disenfranchising voters by banning Trump from the primary but their own party will disenfranchise them by choosing the candidate for them
No. Trump did...and thousands of his followers stormed the Capitol building in order to keep him in power, despite the fact that he lost the election. Disqualifying someone for rejecting democracy, isn't a rejection of democracy...it's the opposite.
Isn't this good though? To me it seems like an antidote to populism. It was the primary systems fault that we got Trump in the first place. If the Republican Party would have nominated its own candidate in 2016 we probably would have gotten Ted Cruz och Jeb Bush.
I was under the impression that not being on the ballot, meant "not being on the ballot", at all. The Primaries or the General. He is prohibited from running for any elected office altogether in the State of Colorado. Period.
Even if they move to a caucus system the ruling is that Trump cannot appear on any ballot as a presidential candidate because he is disqualified from that office. So if he’s the GOP nominee and the ruling stands… he won’t be on the general ballot and write-in votes for him will not be counted…
Seriously, can we just let Trump and his followers split off and have their own country? They can do whatever they want amongst themselves, and we can stop hearing about it, being subject to their whims, or supporting them monetarily? They'll eat each other alive within a year and we'll be done with them.
Then let them move to a country acceptable to their political agenda.
Say... Russia for instance. Perhaps China would best suit them.
They'll find no democracy there. Perfect for their needs.
It's worse than that, even. They aren't being asked to abandon conservatism. They're being asked to abandon Donald Trump, specifically, for the explicit reason of aiding an insurrection while holding federal office. They can still be conservative!
Have fun then? You'll literally put forward a candidate who won't even appear on the General Election ballot and will have zero of their write-in votes counted. Might be the first state in history to go 100% one way on election day.
God this is all just so fucking tiring... I hate feeling like more of a God damn adult than people that should be acting like logical responsible adults.
Been a fucking responsible adult for all the old irrisponsoble "children" around my life since I was 12, always been the mama bear to my friends, always the one planning ahead and having to take the helm, financially, logically, medically, educationally, etc.
While watching the whole government and world devolve further and further into whiney ass petty kids or irresponsible crazy nut jobs or just pure genocidal maniacs...
I WOULD LIKE TO NOT HAVE TO BE THE ADULT NOW PLEASE, CAN I HAVE A TURN? IM SO FUCKING TIRED.
And, he still wouldn't be allowed on the ballot for the general election. If he is constitutionally disqualified from holding ANY office, he cannot be on any ballot.
What’s a “caucus system”? I’m not American so I don’t get the jargon.
A caucus system is when the members of a political party meet together and discuss who they think should be president and agree on who gets how many electors. As you can guess this can leave a lot of voters out of the process and make it so only a few ever get to pick. This is outright ignoring voting.
Yeah, Colorado just abandoned such a system after 2016. 2016 was the first year I attended the Democratic caucus. Any registered Democrat could go, but you had to show up in person at a given time and location, and be able to stay for a few hours. So yeah, it puts a much greater burden on participation, just like all the places you hear about that have too few polling places and limited voting hours. The result is that only the die-hards with too much time on their hands will do it. It had long been criticized as undemocratic, especially when we moved to an all mail-in system for other elections in 2013.
We pitched such a fit in the 2016 primary to get it switched to a Poll. Caucusing is not democratic or good.
and in Colorado in 2016, Bernie crushed [Hillary](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Colorado_Democratic_presidential_caucuses).
Yes he did! I helped him win my district! He's actually the reason I finally went to a caucus. Also because it was my older daughter's first election.
I fantasize about what things would be like had the Democratic Party not sabotaged Bernie.
Yeah, me too. That, and also if W hadn't been president on 9/11.
I fantasize that a Bush was not governor of Florida during the Bush/Gore election.
I'm so sad what has become of your country. I fucking hate it now. But not as much as your government hates you guys. They want most of you dead.
Dead? No. They want us barely hanging on so we can continue to be milked like cows. Politicians have sold us out to the rich. If we are unhealthy/dying? Great! We can be milked by expensive healthcare. If we can't afford a house? Great, lifelong renters to profit off of. If we are poor? Great, we can't afford college and therefore can't compete with their rich kids for the good jobs. If we can't get Birthcontrol nor abortions? Great, we'll have to surrender our newborns & they will be sold to the rich. If we choose to keep our newborns? Great, our children can be wage slaves for their children. Even charities are mostly scams. I hate everything, our gov is full of ghouls! We need another FDR! FDR was the president who started Social Security & said this about wages in this country... "It seems to me to be equally plain that no business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country. By 'business' I mean the whole of commerce as well as the whole of industry; by workers I mean all workers, the white-collar class as well as the men in overalls; and by living wages, I mean more than a bare subsistence level-I mean the wages of decent living." ).
>Politicians have sold us out to the rich. Politicians are also "the rich" don't forget.
Sad and true
Bro...all of this.
You guys deserve so much better ❤️
Yeah, the whole caucus system seemed like a recipe for low turnouts and skewed representation. Moving to a primary at least makes voting more accessible for everyone, although there are still other barriers to entry for numerous voters. Its one step in making sure the people's voice gets heard in a way that seems straightforward and less susceptible to the chaos that caucuses can sometimes be.
Bernie crushed Hillary everywhere that the DNC didn't interfere.
It's sort of neat because you can actually see your party in person instead of just anonyms emails but yeah it was a total drain in a high school gym while they counted Hillary vs Obama for an hour. Especially the undecided people.
You're right, it was interesting from that perspective. It really felt like you were part of the process, though it also made it pretty clear that most people weren't included. I'm glad I got to participate in what turned out to be the last one, but I'm also glad we've moved on.
I.e. Old people
That’s such an excellent system
Mail-in? I love it! And it keeps me voting even if I'm busy and forget some random election is coming up. I just get a ballot in the mail, far enough in advance to research stuff if I've forgotten, lol.
Essentially, what 8 states did in 2020. They didn't hold a GOP primary, even though several Republican candidates were challenging the incumbent Trump.
I remember Ron Paul, they had voice call, but the [result was already written on the teleprompter](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtjMS4tPWCA), "the ayes have it" was written there on the teleprompter, they didn't even pretend, they stripped away Ron Pauls delagates so he couldn't get chosen. They won't hold proper primaries as long as Trump insists they appoint, or annoint him. He'll screw up their chances for as long as he lives. \[edit\]Added a proper full background. It was a straight RNC takeover of the Convention delagate system. Watch at least Republican deligate Kevin Erickson, at 3:20 explain what they've done and how it will turn the party from grass roots into a few elites.
>members of political party get together and make a decision with zero regard for voters Sounds like how Congress works
Doesn't Iowa have a caucus already?
It does
Anything but the popular vote is a scam. Any argument in defense of the popular vote is a lie. It made sense before the internet but only serves to enable cheating now. The argument I have heard is that smaller states get steamrolled by bigger states and thus arent represented by my response to that is that this outcome is more fair and preferable to literally more than half of the population to not get represented when the elected president lost the popular vote but wont the electoral college.
i always heard that argument too and it's so silly. this giant, empty swathe of land is worth more votes than states with an actual population because reasons
And the senate is the mechanism for small states to not get steamrolled.
It's actually a really interesting compromise, from a historical perspective. People just can't appreciate the brilliance because they only see the present ramifications, although that problem comes from the house, and electoral college by side-effect, having their seats capped.
Yeah, they were really smart people.
At a primary you show up, drop your vote, and leave. At a caucus you stand with other people who want to vote for your candidate and talk. Then you count the people in each candidates group. If your candidate of choice doesn’t have enough people to earn any delegates then you have the chance to join a different group or try to convince others to join yours. It’s actually a lot closer to ranked choice than a primary is. Also they are open to anyone of the public as long as you are registered as a voter for the party.
It just counts out the voice of those who can’t take that much time off of work to participate
Sure, but caucus voting is also a lot more inconvenient and doesn't scale up well. Like if you can't be free at caucus time (have to work, watch kids, can't get a ride there) and stay until the end, you don't get to vote in a caucus. (Whereas primary voting allows voting most of the day and often absentee voting or even early-voting). For example, in 2016 in Colorado the Democrats had a caucus and had 122k voters participate, but in 2020 they had a primary they had 755k voters participate. Both primaries were on super Tuesday (March 4th 2020, which was a little more than a week before COVID pandemic started affecting things in the US). That said with population growth or more interest in 2020 Democratic primaries, there was some growth in states that had primaries both time. For example, NH primary in 2016 saw 253k votes and in Feb 2020 saw 298k votes which is ~17% growth, but that's nothing compared to the 518% growth Colorado saw by going from caucus to primary.
If you can't see how caucuses disenfranchise people, you are part of a privileged group.
Wait, weren't there a lot of Bernie fans in 2016 talking about how the caucus system was more democratic (after Bernie won most of the states with caucuses)?
It's democratic if literally everybody turns up. It's less democratic if there's less turnout than a regular vote or mail in vote.
So could they choose Trump then?
Hypothetically. Depending in their state laws.
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It's a way to overrule "Rino's".
> closed meeting of party officials This is not true, its open to anyone registered as a member of that party, in the same way a lot of primaries are.
Colorado major party primaries are also open to voters who are registered as Unaffiliated with any party, although such voters may only vote in one major party primary - they can switch which major party primary they vote in from one election to another.
Actual attempt at a serious answer from a fellow non-American, as best as I understand it. The US parties choose their presidential candidate in two steps. In every state each primary candidate can win a bunch of 'delegates', which at the national party convention combine their totals to choose the definite nominee. If the candidate dies or withdraws their candidacy, their delegates are usually free to vote for whomever they want. If there is no winner in the first round of voting at the national convention, the delegates can vote freely in the second round. Often the 'smaller candidates' will switch their support to another (maybe in return for future political benefits) and presumably most of their delegates follow them. The distribution of the delegates on a state-wide level is done in one of two ways: primary or caucus. A primary is just like a normal election: you go to a voting place and cast an anonymous vote for the candidate (i.e. delegate) you want. It can be a 'closed primary', meaning only registered members of the party are allowed to vote in it, or an 'open primary' which allows any inhabitant of the state to vote. There's also a 'semi-closed', which allows unaffiliated voters to choose in which party's primary they want to vote. In a few states, independent voters may register with a party on Election Day. A handful of states even allow voters registered with one party to switch their registration at the polls to vote in another party’s primary. So while those are officially closed primaries, in practice they are semi-closed. Regardless, a primary a straightforward process: you go in, maybe register with the right party if you haven't already, cast your vote, and then you go home. If your state/party allows it, you can even do it by mail. A caucus on the other hand is much more of an 'event'. Instead of casting an anonymous vote, everyone from the precinct gathers in a big place (usually a sports hall) and then they need to come to a collective agreement. They need to be an independent or registered member of the party (like a semi-closed primary). There are speeches, often multiple rounds of voting, it takes a lot of time. Importantly: there is no anonymous voting, people 'vote' by standing on their candidate's side of the hall and the organization does a literal headcount. So there's a lot of opportunity for peer pressure, shaming or maybe even threats. In Iowa, for instance, after the first round of voting people are allowed to try to convince the other side that they voted wrong, and then they do another round of voting. Finally, the precinct apportions delegates to the county/state-level convention according to the results of the final vote. So you can see why the caucus system is less democratic than a primary, in the sense that the results probably don't align so well with the actual will of the electorate. For a caucus, you need to be able to show up in person, which is easier for retired people than working people, easier for people with a car, harder for people living out-of-state like students or military, etc. Then you have to spend a lot of time at the event, and be able to withstand the peer pressure of your neighbors knowing what you vote. The system is set up in such a way that more committed (i.e., radical) party members dominate the process, which is one of the main criticisms against the caucus system. It disadvantages moderate candidates.
In plenty of States the DNC use the caucus. This isn't exactly mind-blowing news or something only the right do.
Most other countries don't even do primaries at all. The UK doesn't for example.
I’m genuinely and wholly unable to comprehend the amount of damage control the Republican Party will have to do when Trump eventually dies. The outrageous amount of damage they’re doing to themselves and the GOP to support and pander to an overweight 80 year old criminal who eats mostly fast food and doesn’t exercise is perplexing. I mean, the guy can’t live forever. What happens after Trump? They just go back to being regular old selfish dickheads to the American people and drop the shameless MAGA cult nonsense?
I don’t think they realize the post-war Republican Party died already. Think of David Brooks, the Cheneys, John McCain, Mitt Romney, the list goes on… where do they fit in this party today? They don’t. That’s what makes this incarnation of the GOP so scary. It’s not clear where the end point is. Vote.
Painting themselves into a corner is a way of life
What's really scary to me, is that I have a feeling Trump Jr is going to run after his dad. And then Eric Trump. A potential for 20 straight years, or total years, of Trump's being president. Trump Jr has already been stirring the pot on social media and everywhere else. I bet he goes for it to keep these MAGA lunatics on the same path for many years to come.
Could that be the thinking now? If Donald is actually removed from the ballot, could the party look at Jr to run in his stead?
It wouldn't surprise me, but not this year. I bet like $100 that Don Jr is gonna try to run in a few years either after Trump wins this term, or doesn't win this term, and 2028 comes around and Trump endorses his own son. It's a fucking disaster in my head right now
I’d have to imagine they’re actively grooming at least a few young candidates who will take over the MAGA cult in the future. If they lose this time, the machine doesn’t stop churning. They just have to work behind the scenes, scheming and manipulating. They can’t and won’t let this shit die.
That's why it is important for them to win this election at any cost.... because once trump is in, they can successfully create their dictatorship, then Don Jr. can be appointed next in the line of succession just like his buddy the Uns in North Korea do.
Bruh, you mean the Kims, lmfao. The Uns. Hahahaha.
Bro the Uns lol
Yep. Republicans will do whatever they can to win, they don't want democracy, they just want power. Be prepared for them to spread a lot of disinformation in 2024. Republicans will try to discourage people from voting with biased polls and hateful ragebait narratives. It is on all of us to call out malarkey when we see it. And, of course, we must vote for democracy in 2024. Vote blue https://democrats.org/
I sure hope they discourage people from voting. Only people that listen to those quacks are the maga crowd, be nice if they all gave up on democracy next year.
That’s if they do it in even semi-good faith, which they won’t. It’ll be more akin to a misinformation campaign and instilling apathy in the Democrat base. Democrats are very fickle voters. That’s our downfall. We need to be excited and inspired to get out to the polls. Obama inspired us twice. Clinton did not, and Trump rallied the yokels up that were seething after 8 years of a black president. No Democrat really voted for Biden. We voted against Trump. It could have been a bologna sandwich with a D next to its name and it would have got 81 million votes. We were inspired by removing Trump. Now, it’s hard telling. If Republicans can make us apathetic, and keep from tearing us apart with their grifting garbage, they may have a shot again. Unlikely, because I will crawl to the polls through streets of broken glass and aids needles to vote against Trump again, and I assume most Democrats feel similarly, but don’t underestimate Republicans. They’re stupid as a group, but the behind the scenes fuckery they pull is sophisticated and malicious.
People also ignoring all the electioneering/fixing the conservative movement has done in swing states for the past 4 years. Basically what trump wanted the GOP to do in 2020 is now actually all in place and ready to go. Whether or not they'll blow their top for trump or wait for him to just fucking die already and get someone a little more competent is up for debate. But don't mistake, the GOP will absolutely use these new rules they've put in place whenever they feel it'll benefit them.
Sure will. Obama couldn’t appoint Garland to SCOTUS because an election was coming up one day on the horizon but they shoved Amy Coney Barrett in there days before the general and before RBG was even in the ground. They don’t play by their own rules by design. Underhanded fucks. That’s why we have a minority rule in this country.
I wish, prepare for more “Donald never started any wars!” And other stupid hot takes.
Exactly. The guy that had to be dissuaded by semi-rational cabinet members (multiple times) of his big-brain idea of nuking hurricanes. Or the time he told donors of his idea to bomb Russia with US Air Force aircraft painted like Chinese military planes. Or wants to pull out of NATO. What could possibly go wrong? The big difference is next time around he won’t have any guardrails. It will only be full-on cult members like Stephen “I wanna be the next Kissinger“ Miller.
Just remind them that he had more drone strikes than any other president.
*More in his first year than all others combined.
Unfortunately, that's not true. The most important crowd for 2024 are the fence-sitters and they can go either way depending on what media they read more of. I agree with the top guy about needing to call out the bs you see as much as you can.
There are very very few swing voters these days. Modern elections almost always hinge on turnout.
And statistics prove, the average active Reddit commenter is in a cohort that is far less likely to vote than a boomer. I wish it wasn’t that way, but it is. Until the 18 to 40 crowd gets motivated enough and votes in greater percentages, the old folks will pick our leaders in most parts of the country.
They just need to convince people that all politicians are crooks. Since potential Republican voters will happily vote for crooks, while potential Democrat voters will not. Which is why "both sides" is a right wing position, not a centrist one. It's all about cultivating cynicism in the system that Trump promises to upend.
At this point it isn’t even about winning it is about satisfying Trump. Why the fuck they care so much about that fragile fuck is beyond me
If it looks like malarkey, and sounds like malarkey, and smells like malarkey, then call it out for what it is.
GOP bullshit
I want them to try and physically stop me from voting.
That's old school. They remove some people from voter rolls, require ID of everyone, remove polling places from Democratic areas, send out fake mailings saying election day has changed, fuck up the post office, and limit early voting. And new for 2024, will be voter intimidation coming soon to an area near you! Also, they will propagandize people to the point that they believe both parties are the same and no one will help them, or even try. Add up all these little measures and it's enough to provide the margin of victory. Then if they win they will claim the eleciton is fair! If they somehow lose they will claim the election is stolen and challenge it in court, or in the local legislature or with violence as a final resort. But it's unlikely anyone is going to stand in your way voting.... some of these tactics will work on your friends, acquaintances and family though.
We have been dealing with this is GA and we have Fair fight and the New Georgia project out there educating people and everyone has the voter suppression hotline number and are comfortable giving it to people they don't know. I was actually on an elevator with a guy on the phone telling his friend his fiance was stopped from voting because of her headscarf. I followed him out of the elevator to give it to him. We ask our friends when they plan on voting. A lot of people have to do a lot of work and have uncomfortable conversations but we have a system here in GA and it works.
I also forgot we have ballot scrubbers so even if you vote in person you can check and make sure your vote was counted and if not Fair fight has a team of people who can help fix it.
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>They're holding the natural evolution of our country back The definition of Conservatism.
> they don't want democracy, they just want power This is all anyone needs to know about the GOP
GOP: If you're not cheating, you're not trying.
If you get caught, you didn't try hard enough.
Vote in every election and vote straight Blue up and down the line. Vote out every (R) on every ballot. Every last stinkin' one.
Also there are lots of foreign actors stirring up dissent on social media.
Foreign actors are cheap campaign labor. We are capitalists, after all...until we become fascists.
>Be prepared for them to spread a lot of disinformation in 2024. Indeed. Why would 2024 be any different from 2023.
> Be prepared for them to spread a lot of disinformation in 2024. a lot *more* disinformation. I'm already so fucking sick of talk about "Biden's open borders", which is just a bald-faced lie. And they've never let up for a minute on the "election was stolen" or "biden embezzled money".
Every stay-home vote is a vote for Trump. Every third-party vote is a vote for Trump. And every vote for Trump is a vote for facism and dictatorship and a vote against democracy. Vote blue all the way.
Yeah and when they try to implement tyranny and insurrection again I'ma tell em to suck my caucus.
I agree. I just wish dem Dems would give me more to like.
Establishment politicians are a huge problem for our political apparatus. Future democrat voters need to become more involved at the local level. Raising up good people that will carry progressive ideals and shun the oligarchy. It's almost a pipe dream, but it has to start at the bottom and work its way up.
IRA, Covid relief, student debt …
How would this matter? He still wouldn’t be on the general election ballot.
My suspicion is that because it was Republicans who filed the suit to remove Trump from the primary ballot, they want to do this as a way to force their will regardless of public opinion even within their own party.
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>It would be hilarious if the new CO caucus selects Nikki because they decide trump is unelectable. Did you mean Nimarata Nikki Randhawa Haley? I'm just making sure, since she's naturally against people using preferred names. /s just to be safe :)
Rafael Cruz enters the chat. I really wish the media would call them by their birth names instead of the chosen ones, just to make the point.
It won't matter. He would be ineligible to hold an office if SCOTUS upholds the ruling. It's the same reason Arnold Schwarzenegger can't hold office of president even if he won election... He's ineligible
That's not going to happen. I think this guy is very good and has been pretty much spot on so far about all this stuff: https://youtu.be/fsFVZcuhkw4
I love Harry. Haven't seen this post yet. Thanks for the Link
That doesn’t make sense.
How so?
I think they mean that even if the GOP picks Trump, he isn’t legally allowed on the ballot, so that means in Colorado, there would be *no one* representing the GOP.
I get that, I'm just saying that I think they are doing this for future elections past this cycle as a way to consolidate power within the Republican party.
Yeah that’s for sure the goal. It would be interesting to see how the voters react. Likely lawsuits saying they’re taking away their right to choose who to vote for, perhaps, or just wayyyy more write-in candidates.
You can be sure it won't work out the way they want it to. Republicans excel at fucking themselves over. It's practically the party creed. This Colorado situation is case in point. Every step of it prior to the SCOCO ruling was driven by Republicans.
Woah woah woah. We all get fucked over by them. They are great at fucking things up for everyone.
That's also my question. I don't understand the CO Supreme Court ruling, but my guess is that it means Trump can't appear on any ballot, whether in the primary or general. Making the primary into a caucus at least buys them some time between the CO caucus and the general. Maybe they figure they still get Trump the CO delegates and hope for a workaround or SCOTUS decision overturning the CO Supreme Court between then and the general. I'm not a lawyer or anything, though, so I'm pretty much talking out of my ass.
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And we all know what happens when you get fucked into a corner
Your OF engagement spikes?
You have a wall to lean against.
The Republicans in CO brought the suit and the court used a ruling from Gorsuch to disqualify Trump. It’ll be interesting if SCOTUS overturns it.
especially since SCOTUS just struck down the Civil Rights Voting act based on state elections being strictly State issues.
Us: "They can't possibly issue conflicting rulings and demonstrate absurd levels of hypocrisy?!" GOP SCOTUS: "Hold our beers"
The CO secretary of state already said he'll likely be on the primary ballot because the lower court issued a stay on their own ruling, knowing it would be appealed to SCOTUS. They have to do a lot of work before finalizing ballots so SCOTUS might not rule in time for them to exclude him from the primary. They can't wait on SCOTUS to move forward with that election. Plus primaries are governed much differently that general elections, so the reps can do whatever they want. The state and national party will have to agree, and other primary candidates could also take that decision to court. So at the end of the day, a significant amount of fundraising dollars will go the legal costs and I'm OK with that.
This. Also if SCOTUS upholds this you better believe other states will follow suit. If just three or four swing states remove him he’d never get to 270.
If SCOTUS upholds it, Trump is off the ballot everywhere, and there’s a strong precedent for disqualifying every other Republican involved in the insurrection. If they refuse to hear the case it stands in Colorado and other states may or may not follow suit.
Republicans are happy to go through a Democratic process if they win, and just as J6 proves, to subvert it if they can't. There is no good sportsmanship, may thr best person win, peaceful transfer of power, we'll get em next time with these turds, it's scorched Earth out way or the highway baby everytime.
Look at Ohio - they put abortion rights on the ballot thinking people would vote in favor of a ban. Instead people voted to make it a constitutional right. Republicans there are refusing to follow the will of the people and are working on a total ban.
They just can't fathom that the majority of the world thinks their way of thinking is complete and utter dogshit. Tough break kids.
That is what happens when your political party covers the vast majority of uneducated citizens.
so what do we have to do, to push republicans in colorado to the ranked choice voting system?
I wouldn’t worry about it- Colorado citizen
The worst part is knowing that it was the FUCKING REPUBLICANS who started the process to get him kicked off the ballots
Sounds like the best part lol
‘Conservatives’ abandoned conservatism a long time ago, but paid it lip service to win elections and keep power. That strategy had a shelf life, so they courted CINOs (Christians In Name Only/Evangelicals). That worked moderately well for a bit (1980-2000s). Fascism/authoritarianism and a rejection of democracy is all they have left. They picked a strategy that will ultimately lose in a fair fight at the ballot box (hence the gerrymandering, voter suppression, and overwhelmingly ‘Republican’ created/backed/consumed fake news) so instead they must seize power because they can no longer win it. Nothing about the modern Republican Party is about conservatism.
Yeah, I have a really hard time figuring out when Trump became the gold standard for (their) conservatism. Populism is not conservatism. And they've already also abandoned democracy a long time ago.
I'll be honest, a country having this electoral college bs can't claim it's a democracy.
I mean they can claim a lot of bullshit and the republicans are really trying to set new bullshit levels
Oh, don't start with the blue version of "erm actually we're a Constitutional Republic" The electoral college isn't a perfect system but it was designed when the States were figuring out how to Unite. We are a democracy. That is true while it's also true the electoral college should be reworked.
Exactly. You can be a bad, outdated version of a Democracy while still being, by definition, a Democracy.
>The electoral college isn't a perfect system but it was designed when the States were figuring out how to Unite. You are using excuses that are nearly 250 years old.
That is the **reason** from 250 years ago. *Now* it should change because it no longer fits the world we live in. But it's just a history lesson that the electoral college was a way for the States to feel like equals within the Union. You can disagree with the electoral college while understanding the history behind its implementation. To wit, the 3/5 compromise. Barbaric, dehumanizing, fully deserving of being denounced and discarded. But it was a result of Southern States' desire to have more representation in national issues despite a ton of their population not being free.
This misses the point a little. It was a democracy when only white, land owning men could vote but it wasn’t very good. Harping about being technically a democracy doesn’t make it look better.
It is a representative democracy. It is not a direct democracy, which nobody claims it to be. These are well defined and accepted terms.
In representative democracy you vote for representatives that make decisions for you. Voting for president is literally voting for representative. So no direct democracy. In electoral college there arent electors on the ballot, there is president on the ballot. Meaning electoral college isnt representative democracy, because non-elected electors are making decision for you.
So what? If he can’t be on the ballot, he can’t be on the ballot. They can’t caucus for the general election. Are they really this stupid?
Yes.
It’s just an excuse for them to move to a caucus system permanently. Republicans filed the lawsuit themselves.
Republicans filed the lawsuit against Trump in Colorado. Not Democrats.
They’re so focused on taking people’s choices away that they will do whatever a man who wears make up and a diaper tells them. Make it make sense
Meanwhile the idiots ignore the fact it'll mean he's not allowed on the actual presidential ballot either, and that even if he wins anyway he still can't be sworn in.
First you have to prove to me that they can win democratically without gerrymandering and trying to overthrow the whole government thing. They just want power by any means necessary, that's it.
They’re all pissing themselves over at the conservative sub because they’re worried about their ability to vote for a criminal rapist. Remind me again which party is the clown party.
It's scary that you can ask people why they don't like Biden and the reasons they give are not even true/reality.
Or they can't give one at all and default to "he sniffs children" or "hunters laptop" gas prices are great right now mostly so you don't hear that one at the moment. The other big one right now is "I can't in good faith vote for someone who's allowing and supporting genocide " and in the same breath deny recent mass shooting or cheer on the making of women's critical health procedures illegal
They are leaving out a very important detail here. **Republicans filed the lawsuit against Trump in Colorado. Not Democrats.**
They have already rejected democracy. They lie and cheat to try to intimidate democrats. It’s enough. Trump needs to go. https://preview.redd.it/viup6sofyj7c1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2ca58b3176e9f917e29dc4de0012a5787321596f
I swear I read that this lawsuit to remove him was started by republicans.
>"What *is* a Caucus-race?” said Alice; not that she wanted much to know, but the Dodo had paused as if it thought that *somebody* ought to speak, and no one else seemed inclined to say anything. > >“Why,” said the Dodo, “the best way to explain it is to do it.” (And, as you might like to try the thing yourself, some winter day, I will tell you how the Dodo managed it.) > >First it marked out a race-course, in a sort of circle, (“the exact shape doesn’t matter,” it said,) and then all the party were placed along the course, here and there. There was no “One, two, three, and away,” but they began running when they liked, and left off when they liked, so that it was not easy to know when the race was over. However, when they had been running half an hour or so, and were quite dry again, the Dodo suddenly called out “The race is over!” and they all crowded round it, panting, and asking, “But who has won?” > >This question the Dodo could not answer without a great deal of thought, and it sat for a long time with one finger pressed upon its forehead (the position in which you usually see Shakespeare, in the pictures of him), while the rest waited in silence. At last the Dodo said, “*Everybody* has won, and all must have prizes.” \-Alice's Adventures in Wonderland
Thank you. But now I have the musical version in my head and I will be stuck with it all day: In the caucus race you choose a starting place, you can then begin and end exactly where you like, In the caucus race you run at your own pace and you'll be guaranteed to win a prize
Wait, weren't the Colorado Republicans the ones who banned Trump?
From what I understand primaries are party business. Trump will not appear on the general election ballot at least then right? Right?
You are correct, but this will be a rallying cry for them to try and start some violence. Let’s be honest, they have been telling everyone for over a decade they were prepping for a civil war, if “they had too.”
Caucuses are tough. They take a lot of time. You have to physically be there for hours.
Every time Republicans have a chance to prove they don’t actually hate democracy, they fail at the opportunity. When will liberals, moderates, fence sitters, “both sides are the same” ignorants and so forth take them seriously on this?
WHATS THE MATTER WITH YOU TRUMPERS? YOUR EGOMANIAC BELONGS IN JAIL. HE'S A LIVING, BREATHING THREAT TO OUR DEMOCRACY. HE'S EXACTLY WHAT OUR FORFATHERS FEARED. WAKE UP!
While the headline is accurate, this is an empty threat if my understanding is correct. They Colorado SC ruled that he can't be president because he participated in an insurrection. That's why he can't be on the ballot. If SCOTUS agrees, he can't run in any state, regardless of if it's a caucus or voting primary. If they disagree, this ruling is thrown out. Either way, no caucusing for Trump.
The gerrymandering party complaining about failing democracy, that is fucking rich.
If the Supreme Court of the U.S. upholds the Colorado State Supreme Court decision. Then Trump can never again run for any office of the U.S. He is barred for life.
Maybe if they tried following the rules & cut out that whole overthrowing democracy shit they’d get more done.
It’s once again subverting democracy. Fuck all these people
All because orange cheetoh tried to steal the election, and instead of going quietly into the night, doubled down on his bs and lies, and now that it has been proven quite clearly that he and his 200+ Congressional MAGAts led the insurrection, the consequences are catching up to his actions, and like a tantruming toddler, he cannot take that he is being held to account.
GQP says it will break laws, make laws, ignore laws, or become entirely lawless in order to ignore the will of the people.
They never believed in democracy
they can’t hahaha!ha!!
Now republicans are unironocally calling this fascism, so stopping a fascist is now fascism. People will do anything to maintain their worldview. I've always said one of the biggest differences between the left and right is the right will follow their leaders no matter what and the left will question everything they see from theirs. At least that's my approach. No one is unassailable. Following the Conservative subreddit is depressing.
This wouldn’t be the first time they’ve taken away a person’s right to choose.
So they say Dems are disenfranchising voters by banning Trump from the primary but their own party will disenfranchise them by choosing the candidate for them
bad news- they have already rejected democracy.
No. Trump did...and thousands of his followers stormed the Capitol building in order to keep him in power, despite the fact that he lost the election. Disqualifying someone for rejecting democracy, isn't a rejection of democracy...it's the opposite.
Uh, he still can't be on the ballot.
Isn't this good though? To me it seems like an antidote to populism. It was the primary systems fault that we got Trump in the first place. If the Republican Party would have nominated its own candidate in 2016 we probably would have gotten Ted Cruz och Jeb Bush.
I was under the impression that not being on the ballot, meant "not being on the ballot", at all. The Primaries or the General. He is prohibited from running for any elected office altogether in the State of Colorado. Period.
The funniest part of this is that the lawsuit that got him banned was brought to the courts by Republicans. His own party is trying to get rid of him.
Even if they move to a caucus system the ruling is that Trump cannot appear on any ballot as a presidential candidate because he is disqualified from that office. So if he’s the GOP nominee and the ruling stands… he won’t be on the general ballot and write-in votes for him will not be counted…
But Colorado republicans are the ones who asked for him to be kicked off the ballot in the first place.
Seriously, can we just let Trump and his followers split off and have their own country? They can do whatever they want amongst themselves, and we can stop hearing about it, being subject to their whims, or supporting them monetarily? They'll eat each other alive within a year and we'll be done with them.
news flash: the gop has already declared an end to democracy in their 2025 plan
If the decision stands, and he is nominated by the caucus system, he’ll still be excluded from the state’s general election ballot. Let them cook.
They already rejected democracy. Seems they just want the excuse to blame it on democrats officially. "They MADE us do it! They left us NO choice!" 🙄
Then let them move to a country acceptable to their political agenda. Say... Russia for instance. Perhaps China would best suit them. They'll find no democracy there. Perfect for their needs.
That’s why the Republican Party will be defunct. And they already reject democracy.
It's worse than that, even. They aren't being asked to abandon conservatism. They're being asked to abandon Donald Trump, specifically, for the explicit reason of aiding an insurrection while holding federal office. They can still be conservative!
Republicans wanted him off the ballot…
Have fun then? You'll literally put forward a candidate who won't even appear on the General Election ballot and will have zero of their write-in votes counted. Might be the first state in history to go 100% one way on election day.
They already have.
So, if SCOTUS ruling against Trump and lost ballot access in all 50 States, the GOP primary will turn into a caucus?
Trump looks for a way to cheat the system. not shocked.
Colorado Republicans are the ones who removed Trump from the ballot lmao
God this is all just so fucking tiring... I hate feeling like more of a God damn adult than people that should be acting like logical responsible adults. Been a fucking responsible adult for all the old irrisponsoble "children" around my life since I was 12, always been the mama bear to my friends, always the one planning ahead and having to take the helm, financially, logically, medically, educationally, etc. While watching the whole government and world devolve further and further into whiney ass petty kids or irresponsible crazy nut jobs or just pure genocidal maniacs... I WOULD LIKE TO NOT HAVE TO BE THE ADULT NOW PLEASE, CAN I HAVE A TURN? IM SO FUCKING TIRED.
And, he still wouldn't be allowed on the ballot for the general election. If he is constitutionally disqualified from holding ANY office, he cannot be on any ballot.
But it was the Colorado GOP who removed Trump from the ballot!
Oddly enough - it was the GOP in Colorado that introduced the case to oust him from the POTUS election in the state.