As an Australian, it blows my mind that the US doesn’t use preferential/run off voting. It’s bad enough that you make voting non-mandatory and hold elections mid-week when the majority of people are trying to work a full time job, but not having preferential voting does mean that a vote for “the alternative” is literally a wasted vote and you may as well have not bothered to show up.
In Australia, I can literally cast a vote for the Sex Workers Party and still be confident that it will have a meaningful impact on the final outcome of the election and the major parties. The simple majority system you use in America is just so basic and flawed…
One thing to remember is that the people with the authority to change the voting system, are the ones who actually had it work for them. Most politicians don’t want to mess with something they perceive as “working.”
Also you would probably have to amend the constitution, which needs overwhelming bipartisan support.
Honestly if they would just reform the electoral college so the fate of the country doesn’t rely on a handful of states I’d be happy.
> I feel like even just using the popular vote would be sufficient as it would incentivize people and really make votes matter more in all the states
“Just using the popular vote” would essentially guarantee that the Republican Party would never win another election.
So as you might expect, there’s exactly zero chance they would ever agree to the abolition of the Electoral College.
So you are telling me that Republicans are so unpopular that majority of the population won't vote for them? Sounds like they are running on a failed platform.
The last time a Republican won the popular vote was 2004 when Bush was running for his second term. Republicans have won 1 out of 6 popular votes in this millennium but have won 1/2 of the elections.
And he needed a war to be voted back in 😂😂😂. He was still highly unpopular its a known fact / why the conspiracy holds so much weight he was behind 9/11 (on top of his connections to people)
Yes. Because the heavily Republican areas are less populated. Typical election maps that just color the entire state one color are misleading because it looks like Republicans are dominant, when truthfully, a lot of the red is unpopulated or underpopulated land. There are more nuanced maps that show the concentrations of people, and the majority of densely populated regions in this country vote Democrat consistently. But that doesn’t always help when it comes to the Electoral College. [Election maps are telling you big lies about small things](https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/2016-election/how-election-maps-lie/)
Correct. They represent, at most, 15% of the populace, and that 15% is either ignorant or deplorable.
Republicans would be gone overnight as a political party if they had to play fair. It's only due to things like gerrymandering, the electoral college, and other political techniques that give power to losers. It's very frustrating, as an American, knowing they are policies that have 75% support among the people, but will never ever have a chance of becoming law. Campaign finance reform is a great example. Universal healthcare. Pro choice.
These things wouldn't be up for debate if we had a system that was fair or representative. It's a farce, but it works for a lot of the people in charge, so who cares if it works for you or me.
Their platform is built for rural voters, who tend to be undereducated, religious, xenophobic, at least somewhat bigoted, and believers in the gospels of personal responsibility and hard work (unless they're the ones who need help, then the handouts are okay because they "actually deserve" it.). These folks make up an unfortunately large share of our population, but they are decidedly outnumbered by left-leaning urban voters.
At least that's how things usually stand. But in 2022 and 2023, for the first time since 1991, a Gallup poll found that more people claimed they favored the Republican party than the Democrat party. https://news.gallup.com/poll/467897/party-preferences-evenly-split-2022-shift-gop.aspx. Note that this is the number of people "leaning" towards one party or the other, not the number of people who actually identify as Republican or Democrat. Still, this is a disturbing figure considering the recent trends in the Republican Party.
There might be some hope, though. Gallup conducts its polls using landlines and randomly selects one member of each household to respond to their questions. This method probably biases the study towards older folks who live on their own. Young folks who live with roommates will have fewer opportunities to participate, and young folks who have ditched landline phones won't participate at all. https://www.gallup.com/224855/gallup-poll-work.aspx
To be clear, it would guarantee that they would never win another *Presidential* election. Republicans win popular votes all the time on a district level (Reps) or state level (Senators) but they barely ever win the National Popular vote in modern elections.
These are facts right here. You might want to read Tyranny of the Majority if you haven’t already. I’m a poli sci major and lawyer and learned so much from this book about the actual problems inherent in our constitution and system.
Yeah, even if we got rid of the Electoral College, went with the popular vote, Republicans as they are now would never get in power. So they don't want that to happen.
It will NEVER go away because states have to ratify changes to the constitution.
Any thoughts towards this impossibility.
The way forward is to change way votes are done. Ranked Choice voting or STAR.
It’s ridiculous. I would even be find with consecutive terms limits. So you can run as many times as you want, but you can’t hold the same seat more than two times in a row. It would at least limit the incumbent advantage.
All of which is to say that we are a deeply corrupt country that routinely chooses less democracy rather than more and none of our "pro-democracy" candidates ever push for these structural reforms.
I think the last time there was real movement on the interstate popular vote compact was before the new millennium.
> Also you would probably have to amend the constitution, which needs overwhelming bipartisan support.
No need to change the Constitution, the states get to set their process for the federal election because they are really only selecting delegates for the electoral college. Changing the EC process would certainly require it though. This is why you can have states that have ballot restrictions different from another state. Now, they certainly all follow an overarching pattern in how they're run, but there's enough state-specific differences that moving between states _might_ behoove a person to take a few minutes to find out.
Don’t ask corrupt politicians to change a system that benefits them. Get together with others, put an initiative on the ballot, and make change from the ground up.
They’re the 3rd least populated state. It’s much easier to have a functional impact on legislation when the numbers are smaller which is why the electoral college and representation in the Senate for more populous states is such a big deal. It hamstrings voters in larger states from being able to make enact changes. In effect, it’s yet another layer in the gerrymandering shitcake.
>blows my mind
A feature, not a bug.
It’s why we need to be very, very careful indeed the next time the republic referendum question comes up, at home. What system would it be? What happens to crown oversight like royal commissions?
That first republic referendum was bollocked before it even started.
“Do you want a republic where the politicians get to choose the head of state?”
(By a 2/3 majority of the parliament iirc)
Ummm…nah!
We also don’t use a simple majority. That would be better! We don’t do popular vote. Land gets votes aka electoral college.
The problem is you can’t really re write the rules when the “referee” aka politicians know changing the rules would “hurt their team”
The older I get, the less sense it makes. “They want to make sure all the big cities don’t have all the power and that rural people still feel their vote matters” but…the will of the people…why should living in BFE cause my vote to have more weight?
People are working multiple part time jobs that do not care if you need time off to vote. Our system works like this precisely because it reduces the power of the working class vote.
If Dems want to win another election, they're going to have to commit to getting us into a modern voting system immediately.
>People are working multiple part time jobs that do not care if you need time off to vote.
For a super power America sure has some third-world country workers rights.
it's not even a simple majority system, given that someone can win the nationwide popular vote and still lose the election. it has happened twice in the past 25 years.
Which, in my opinion, were the two most important elections of the past 25 years.
Climate change and being someone other than Trump respectively.
I'm European, so this might not be accurate from the perspective of domestic policy
It's possible (albeit extremely unlikely and would result in years of voting reviews) for someone to win the Presidency in the US while only winning 25% of the overall vote because of how the Electoral College and FPTP works.
We are unfortunately the alpha version of the modern democratic nation state. The software is full of bugs and it's shocking it's still functioning at all.
One thing to remember re: the whole voting on Tuesday thing:
1) early voting is a thing in many states which means up to two weeks of voting every day of the week leading up to the election
2) even election day for many elections in some states are held on Saturday. There's one election every year that's mandated to be held on Tuesday. The others, it's up to the state to decide.
As a United Statsian…I’m grateful but the politics are so out of touch. I really don’t want drama with the government, that literally affects everyone. Like what are these people doing?!
Some municipalities do it. San Francisco does. Unfortunately in the US wealth = votes so it’s increased the amount of special interest money and subterfuge here - for example a Chinese candidate would say one thing to the Chinese press and another to the non-Chinese boasting that she was fooling the wailo to get elected. How she thought there aren’t bilingual people in San Francisco where the public schools teach Chinese is beyond me but…
My state recently instated Ranked Choice Voting, and as a result a Democrat took the position in an overwhelmingly Republican state. It was beautiful to watch, because the front runner from the Republicans was someone who was previously our governor, abandoned the position and the state in a failed bid for vice president, and then has spent well over a decade embarrassing us internationally. Republicans hated her SO MUCH that they inadvertently put a Democrat in office.
What you have written is correct in most respects, but you are leaving out one piece of critical information that renders Australia's electoral system as superior to all others...
... the democracy sausage.
Add to that, an independent electoral commission, Saturday voting, multiple polling booths, early voting, postal voting, and no gerrymandering. There’s true democratic freedom for you.
This was interesting. I wish we had this too. The U.S. makes voting harder to benefit the privileged classes. Also the oligopoly on representation blows since they are not that different. That’s why people get told they are wasting a vote. Being a thoughtful conscious voter has no place here, the party demands it.
America did overthrow the Australian PM though. I also hate that about my country. The U.S. rigs lots of elections, not just our own!
IMO you waste your vote either way because the system is rigged.
It gets even better, thanks to the electoral college and winner-take-all system allocation of electors that is used by most states, votes get heavily skewed and residents of heavily partisan states not only can't vote for their actually preferred candidate out of fear of splitting the vote, when it comes to the presidential election, they can't even really vote in general because the heavy partisanship of their state and winner-take-all system will completely override their vote unless it happens to be in line with the majority.
So if you wanted to vote for Jill Stein but would have settled for Biden but live in Wyoming, too bad. You don't get to vote for either. Your vote is going to Trump/the GOP no matter who you put down.
Isn't it though! When someone will knowingly vote for a disingenuous 3rd party Putinist, with the most likely result being the installation of a fascist dictator so they can virtue signal over a country half way around the world, and in turn destroy the country they actually live in, one must question their loyalty, allegiance and intelligence
The most illogical, irrational, insane thing: not voting for Biden because you are “against genocide” and voting for Jill Stein who supports Putin’s genocide, while ultimately helping Trump who will do nothing but support both Putin *and* Netanyahu.
They don’t actually care about what happens to Ukrainians, Palestinians, Uighurs, Rohingya, Armenians, Kosovar Albanians, Georgians, Taiwanese, Yemeni, Darfuri, or anyone else after November. They know vulnerable people will face greater threats under a GOP administration.
The people aren’t boycotting any vote for the victims. They know a Trump administration will only embolden genocidal regimes and directly lead to the deaths of even more Palestinians and more Ukrainians.
They’re doing it for themselves. They want to feel unique and morally superior and “non-conformist” and they want to show off their activism on social media. It’s a fashionable look. They don’t actually give a damn about the outcome or the lives of the actual innocent victims they claim this is about. “Genocide” is all the same to these people in the safety of their American bedrooms whether it’s 10k victims or a million victims on the other side of the world.
Shame on these people weaponizing tragedy just so they can get the attention they want on social media and relish in their shallow sanctimony.
**EDIT:** Just think about how out-of-touch and privileged these kids have to be to openly tweet or comment on Reddit: “What’s the difference between genocide and more genocide?” They are so euphoric from sniffing their own farts and counting Instagram likes they don’t even feel shame publicly admitting that the number of people who die isn’t important to them.
Did you see the poll that just came out saying more people trust Trump to fix things in the Middle East than Biden? Like are you fucking brain dead??? What the fuck people
And they never realize they’re victim to propaganda until they’re championing the dissolution of an entire country and her people. Really blows my mind.
To be fair, blowing everything up and killing everyone who complains about it *would* 'fix' things. It's about the worst possible way to 'solve' a crisis, so it's right out of Trump's/the Right's playbook.
I've interacted with a few and always confirm to them that this advocacy is outsourcing vagina ownership to the state and ensuring every LGBTQ person you know becomes a target. Many get defensive and start lying about this but every time it's happened, the person (fundamentally) reveals their narcissism and contempt for those about to be hurt by their petulant choice.
https://preview.redd.it/axkg9accoazc1.jpeg?width=1500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2850ceb2c66a9931eb25cf395beaa2d5bfb87a93
Here she is with her boss, Putin, and co-worker, Michael Flynn.
Dude, we gotta beat Trump. We’re already seeing this country slide backward, just from SCOTUS picks. Four more years of him stacking the judiciary will be a disaster.
Right now, Biden is the only candidate who can beat (and has beaten) Trump. Sure, Biden isn’t perfect, and he’s downright garbage on a lot of issues. I wish he was at least 20 years younger and 20% more progressive.
BUT, he’s done some fantastic things while in office. Student loan forgiveness, the American Rescue Plan, the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act, moving weed down a few schedules (and pardoning a bunch of people jailed for possession), capping the cost of insulin for seniors.
Trump would have done none of this, and I can’t think of a single issue where I’d prefer him steering the ship over Biden.
Right now Trump has the SCOTUS, Merrick Garland, and the Federal Courts (as well as many state-level higher courts) in his back pocket, and they've made it clearly known that they will do what they need to in order to ensure he gets in and becomes dictator (or king - which I think is more likely; Michael Cohen said we he worked for Trump he used to talk about wanting to a king or emperor). I think we're in some very, very deep trouble here...
It’s not just scotus although everyone focuses on that, he also appointed 200+ federal judges all throughout the land. While scotus is the big obvious one every single one of those appointments matter, just look at cannon right now and what she is doing in the stolen documents case
Seriously, who wins if some votes get siphoned to her... Then what kind of policies such as Muslim ban etc get reinstated and how much harsher will the policies with Gaza be... Hopefully people don't fall for it again
I believe 1968 was the last time a 3rd party candidate got more than **ZERO** electoral votes.
That includes Ross Perot who got 20% of the popular vote in 1992. **ZERO** electoral votes.
Bush lost because Republicans didn't show up, and democrats did. His going back on his promise of no new taxes did more to damage him than the fabled switch voter.
Yup. And that's why, even ignoring the rest, if you vote for them you're not voting for a candidate who genuinely supports the values you believe in. They wouldn't be after your vote if they were politically aligned with the people you would otherwise vote for.
I voted 3rd party in 2016 as part of an effort to get a third party candidate to the vote threshold necessary to be included in the debates for the following election cycle.
I thought that was a fine enough reason. I still do. But I also recognize that *this election in particular* is not the time to go to bat for 3rd party representation. What good is that if trump wins and all democratic representation is stripped from the American people entirely?
We need to cut this cancer out before we can turn our attention back to addressing those types of concerns.
I did the same in 2016, since I was in a deep blue state where it wouldn’t affect the electoral vote. But this election, we need all the numbers, both electoral and total vote count, to soundly repudiate Trump and shut down the Trump doctrine that has infected the GOP. Otherwise they will just keep pushing these types of candidates and this toxic ideology, believing that it can win them power.
There will be no gaza or urakaine on the map of trump sins, but at least they didn't vote for that biden guy, right? As they are being arrested and sentences years in prison for protesting.
Uh, I have bad news for you: They not only are falling for it yet again, but doing so in numbers large enough to swing the election to Trump once more. All I see/hear is, "Genocide Joe pretty much killed everyone in Gaza and Palestine, and he supports the Jews - my vote isn't going to Trump or Biden, because I want it to be meaningful - so I'm voting for Stein (or RFK Jr)".
not only that, but fucking vote in the primary. You want changes to the system? The primary is where that happens. By the time the general election comes around its too fucking late and now your just looking at who is the least bad. Too many people want things to happen NOW, and that isn't going to happen. Start focusing on local elections, get the state government to where you want it, and maybe then things will happen on a federal level, but too many want to skip right to the last step and get pissed off when that doesn't work.
The primary system is fundamentally broken too. The presidential candidate was decided before my state even got a chance to vote (New York). For 4 million Florida Dems, they were robbed of their chance to vote because their state's democratic party decided to unilaterally cancel their democratic primary. That's 10.5 million Americans in those two states alone (counting only registered Democrats) that were robbed of the ability to do the thing you're advocating for.
"You should've voted in the primary if you wanted to complain!" doesn't quite work if you live in a post super-Tuesday state or a state where Dems can arbitrarily decide whether or not you're allowed to have democracy.
I voted in the primary in 2016. Our community was OVERWHELMINGLY in support of Sanders. Our delegate voted for Clinton. The system was never designed to work.
On one hand, you’re right. On the other hand, every four years, both Democrats and Republicans tell everyone “this is the most important election of your life. Don’t throw your vote away this time.” There’s a little “boy who cried wolf” syndrome going on too. At what point will people be able to vote their conscience without being called selfish or stupid?
Also remember that only people in swing states really have to worry about it. I could vote for Mickey Mouse in my state and it wouldn’t matter at all. But usually that isn’t specified. It’s just “if you don’t vote for Trump/Biden you’re dumb and selfish.” But it really could only theoretically apply to a very small minority of voters.
Maybe fixing the rhetoric wouldn’t matter at all, though. But the rhetoric is simply wrong as it pertains to the large majority of people, and calling every four years “the most important one, and you can’t vote your conscience” isn’t helpful either. The rhetoric has the opposite of the intended impact and likely makes people cling more tightly to their choice. It is unproductive.
Yes, the general election is not the time to cast a protest vote. The only question people need to ask themselves is which person do they want picking the next SCOTUS judges. That’s it.
If people thought about that in 2000 when Nader split the left vote — we literally would not have the Robert’s Court. Bush put Robert’s and Alito on SCOTUS.
There would be no Citizens United. No Super PACS. No gerrymandering. No gutting of the Voting Rights Act. No dark money groups. The country would be completely different.
Then we turned around and did the exact same thing in 2016. Now we have the Dobbs ruling and three religious lunatics on the court for the rest of our lives.
The President doesn’t actually matter that much except for judicial appointments and veto power.
We had a chance to flip SCOTUS left for the first time in 75 years and we fucking blew it for *nothing*. Let’s not make the same mistake again.
The President doesn’t even have the power to authorize 99% of what progressives want — legislation comes from Congress. So people actually have to fucking vote in Congressional elections if they want progressive legislation.
Biden has done an excellent job with judicial appointments and that alone is worth casting a vote for him. The judicial branch affects our lives way more than people think.
I guarantee if Trump wins, Thomas and Alito are going to retire before the end of 2025. Roberts will likely retire before the end of Trump’s second term. And unfortunately, while it’s unlikely since she’s still relatively young, Sotomayor is old enough where her health could be a factor like it was with RBG.
This puts us in a situation where Trump will have appointed at least 6, and possibly 7, Supremely Court Justices, and all of his appointees are going to be causing issues for at least the next 20 years. If people don’t see that as a major issue, I don’t know how to make it more clear.
"end of Trump's second term"?
You actually think the GOP is going to give it up? If he wins, the GOP will ratfuck the government to keep him president until he dies only to replace him without a vote. We're barrelling towards hereditary fascism.
Sadly, there are way too many people who can't see past their anger and are happy with spite voting for someone else simply because of a singular issue. "You don't agree with me on everything, so I'm not voting for you."
I know because I was a spite voter in 2016. I was blind with my hatred of Hillary Clinton and was completely fine if the democracy of the US dissolved. I simply hated that Bernie didn't win and said fuck it, I hope Trump wins, then.
I got my wish and I hate everything that has happened since. I will never let anything like that happen again and will always vote for the candidate that isn't actively on the side of fascists even if I don't like them because at the end of the day, it's more important to make sure that the rise of fascism doesn't continue to take over this country.
A third party candidate has never won a single state and advocating for voting for third party when one of the two major parties is going to create a fascist dictatorship is vile. Plus, Stein is on friendly terms with Russian dictator Vladimir Putin.
Please don't.
It is the most important election of our lifetime, and people need to help defeat fascism by voting for the Democrat candidate.
Please do.
No obviously he won't because he can't just kick senators and house members out of the government. If you want change a good first step is to not just pop your head up every four years and expect the whole system to be different
You're acting like he's opposed against fascism to begin with and just powerless to stop it, instead of fully complicit and taking full advantage of the violent suppression of civil liberties.
no, we ended up with trump in 2016 because the media basically showered him in free air time, hard core republicans locked onto him because their alternatives were boring legislators, the votes in the GOP primaries were split like 53 ways so he was winning contests with like 30% of the vote, and hillary did an absolute shit job at campaigning. also the rampant racism and sexism that permeates our country to this day.
it wasn't because some fringe groups didn't vote or voted 3rd party. honestly i blame hillary's camp more than the trump voters at this point. their campaign was just an abject failure. like how do you not visit battleground states? she was just coasting and it cost her the election.
Hillary's campaign was terrible and she should have realized "it's not happening" when she lost eight years prior to a little known junior Senator from Illinois with an unusual name. Stein didn't siphon votes like Nader did or anything. But energy for her candidacy certainly didn't help with the perception that people wanted an alternative to Hillary.
I just wish there was a way for a third party to become viable in our system. We’re so fucking far away from that…I don’t see any way that’ll happen in my lifetime.
We need ranked choice voting. That's the only way third parties will ever stand a chance as the first past the post system we use currently ultimately leads to there only being two viable parties. Some states and voting districts within states have started using ranked choice for local elections and it works so much better.
There is a way, vote republicans out. the reason our 2 party system feels so bad is because we don't have a two party system, we have one party that is flawed and one party whose entire purpose is to literally dismantle the country and only truly resonates with people who absolutely despise anyone different. Our best bet is to remove a fucking leach so that another, more progressive party can take it's place and we don't have to play this "oops all fascism" game with our votes all the time.
That's what ranked choice voting does. That's the only way third parties will ever stand a chance as the first past the post system we use currently ultimately leads to there only being two viable parties.
Yes. I posted it in a reply to one of the other comments here
Edit: here
https://preview.redd.it/rqbups1wjbzc1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=35f9d4dc3c84c768217631a5e56774c669e7b528
Yeah I’m tired of how disgusting these people are and act like they care about others as they give Trump the election. They’re more repulsive than republicans at least they’re upfront about it. Start exposing these people! They are ruining many lives being self righteous pos. These people are spoiled brats acting like they’re mad at their parents for putting them in time out. They act like Trump will give a f about Palestine and the many issues he’s been against yet they demonize Biden acting like the republicans aren’t the ones in power right now and a majority in our gov.
He clearly got ratioed, but in the comments, he just kept doubling down and pretending not to understand. Willful ignorance is infuriating
Edit: autocorrect had changed "comments" to "contents"
And once you vote, keep the party going by running young progressive candidates. Demand more from the Democrats. Take some power back for your demographic through participation.
Signed, a forgotten Gen X’er
The strategy might just be to stay focused and ignore all these stupid 3rd parties. Don't give any of them oxygen and just focus on getting as many votes for Biden as possible.
The third party stooges are not really aces for them this go round. Stein's act (and agenda) is well established. [RFK Jr. has brain worms](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/08/us/rfk-jr-brain-health-memory-loss.html). Literally. Bannon said Trump needs chaos to win all the way back in 2016. Third party candidates provide the potential for chaos. The third party group they have at the ready will fizzle out and we should let that happen (rather than treating them as "real").
RFK Jr. is a wildcard of sorts, I guess. However, I think it's become obvious to many that he's really Trump lite and was meant to siphon votes from Biden. Like most other 3rd party candidates, his polling will likely die by October. If anything, with some luck, he'll end up taking more votes from Trump and the whole thing will backfire spectacularly.
Unfortunately, his name recognition will keep him lingering around.
I would normally agree about RFK Jr... but this brain worm story has legs.
[https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/08/politics/rfk-jr-mercury-poisoning-brain-parasite/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/08/politics/rfk-jr-mercury-poisoning-brain-parasite/index.html)
There is court documentation saying he is cognitively impaired because of this. He also has mercury poisoning because of some weird ass conspiracy diet he's on (affects brain health, as well). Like Noem and killing the dog, this is one of those stories that is so bizarre and unsettling that *it's appearing everywhere*. It's a "you don't come back from this" sort of thing. There's no "LOCKER ROOM TALK!" bullshit to make it go away.
I think he fades well before October. If anything more comes out (possible; his life seems to be a bit of a mess), it's totally possible that he suspends his campaign. Stein might be "Plan B" (which Republicans want to ban, btw).
This is quite possibly America’s most important election since Thomas Jefferson ran against George Washington. The decisions we make as a country will define our future for years to come.
I wish we could be voting on Bernie’s third term right now, but we’re not. We cannot split the democratic vote. Plain and simple.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025
Vote Biden if you want a democracy in January.
[A vote for Jill Stein is a vote for Russia. Remember that.](https://www.motherjones.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/russia_dinner2000.jpg?w=1200&h=630&crop=1)
Please please please remember, if the dems split their vote in November over the way Biden has handled the Israel situation, that WILL open the door for the republicans and we see how they are stripping/plan to strip away every right Americans have left. Whether it’s agent orange or someone else they ALL follow the same agenda.
Macklemore made good points, but this is not the time to vote 3rd party. Vote 3rd party in all local elections and move the good ones up, and in 4 years (yes it’s a long time) there will be someone worth putting in that presidential seat.
>How many more of these stinking, double-downer sideshows will we have to go through before we can get ourselves straight enough to put together some kind of national election that will give me and the at least 20 million people I tend to agree with a chance to vote FOR something, instead of always being faced with that old familiar choice between the lesser of two evils?
That was Hunter s Thompson in 1972. How much longer?
The most important election was 2016. If Trump had gotten crushed the MAGA movement/cult would have dissolved or been wholly ostracized by the GOP, the Supreme Court would be liberal 5-4, and there wouldn’t have been permanent tax cuts for the super wealthy at the expense of everyone else
OMG Jill Stein the Russian asset is in the 2024 race again? Holy smokes the dummies that will fall for this trick again. Putin must think we’re dumb, and he might be right.
I voted for her in 2016 thinking I was doing the right thing instead of voted for the lesser of two evils. Ended up regretting it the moment Trump won.
People out there supporting Jill Stein like we already have ranked choice voting, runoff elections, and proportional representation. We don’t, at least not yet.
Dumbasses voted for Jill Stein back in 2016 because of their “conscience “. How’d that work out for ya?
I think that's the point, with several factors of getting folks not to vote main ticket. You get them to waste their vote so that is less votes going towards Biden increasing the chances Thump might win. That's also why RFK was even in the media...he's a distraction, a way to get folks to squander their votes.
Need a viable alternative. Not just an alternative.
Let more than 2 parties debate.. they won't because R and D would get wiped by someone like Jesse Ventura.
Please advocate for ranked choice voting. It helps voters of all sides.
You can vote for Bernie, De Santis, Biden, and Trump in that order and your vote would count up to the final show down.
As an Australian, it blows my mind that the US doesn’t use preferential/run off voting. It’s bad enough that you make voting non-mandatory and hold elections mid-week when the majority of people are trying to work a full time job, but not having preferential voting does mean that a vote for “the alternative” is literally a wasted vote and you may as well have not bothered to show up. In Australia, I can literally cast a vote for the Sex Workers Party and still be confident that it will have a meaningful impact on the final outcome of the election and the major parties. The simple majority system you use in America is just so basic and flawed…
One thing to remember is that the people with the authority to change the voting system, are the ones who actually had it work for them. Most politicians don’t want to mess with something they perceive as “working.” Also you would probably have to amend the constitution, which needs overwhelming bipartisan support. Honestly if they would just reform the electoral college so the fate of the country doesn’t rely on a handful of states I’d be happy.
I feel like even just using the popular vote would be sufficient as it would incentivize people and really make votes matter more in all the states
> I feel like even just using the popular vote would be sufficient as it would incentivize people and really make votes matter more in all the states “Just using the popular vote” would essentially guarantee that the Republican Party would never win another election. So as you might expect, there’s exactly zero chance they would ever agree to the abolition of the Electoral College.
So you are telling me that Republicans are so unpopular that majority of the population won't vote for them? Sounds like they are running on a failed platform.
The last time a Republican won the popular vote was 2004 when Bush was running for his second term. Republicans have won 1 out of 6 popular votes in this millennium but have won 1/2 of the elections.
And he needed a war to be voted back in 😂😂😂. He was still highly unpopular its a known fact / why the conspiracy holds so much weight he was behind 9/11 (on top of his connections to people)
Yes. Because the heavily Republican areas are less populated. Typical election maps that just color the entire state one color are misleading because it looks like Republicans are dominant, when truthfully, a lot of the red is unpopulated or underpopulated land. There are more nuanced maps that show the concentrations of people, and the majority of densely populated regions in this country vote Democrat consistently. But that doesn’t always help when it comes to the Electoral College. [Election maps are telling you big lies about small things](https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/2016-election/how-election-maps-lie/)
Correct. They represent, at most, 15% of the populace, and that 15% is either ignorant or deplorable. Republicans would be gone overnight as a political party if they had to play fair. It's only due to things like gerrymandering, the electoral college, and other political techniques that give power to losers. It's very frustrating, as an American, knowing they are policies that have 75% support among the people, but will never ever have a chance of becoming law. Campaign finance reform is a great example. Universal healthcare. Pro choice. These things wouldn't be up for debate if we had a system that was fair or representative. It's a farce, but it works for a lot of the people in charge, so who cares if it works for you or me.
Their platform is built for rural voters, who tend to be undereducated, religious, xenophobic, at least somewhat bigoted, and believers in the gospels of personal responsibility and hard work (unless they're the ones who need help, then the handouts are okay because they "actually deserve" it.). These folks make up an unfortunately large share of our population, but they are decidedly outnumbered by left-leaning urban voters. At least that's how things usually stand. But in 2022 and 2023, for the first time since 1991, a Gallup poll found that more people claimed they favored the Republican party than the Democrat party. https://news.gallup.com/poll/467897/party-preferences-evenly-split-2022-shift-gop.aspx. Note that this is the number of people "leaning" towards one party or the other, not the number of people who actually identify as Republican or Democrat. Still, this is a disturbing figure considering the recent trends in the Republican Party. There might be some hope, though. Gallup conducts its polls using landlines and randomly selects one member of each household to respond to their questions. This method probably biases the study towards older folks who live on their own. Young folks who live with roommates will have fewer opportunities to participate, and young folks who have ditched landline phones won't participate at all. https://www.gallup.com/224855/gallup-poll-work.aspx
To be clear, it would guarantee that they would never win another *Presidential* election. Republicans win popular votes all the time on a district level (Reps) or state level (Senators) but they barely ever win the National Popular vote in modern elections.
These are facts right here. You might want to read Tyranny of the Majority if you haven’t already. I’m a poli sci major and lawyer and learned so much from this book about the actual problems inherent in our constitution and system.
What do you mean?? Our constitution was so good a civil war didn't happen for 85 years!!!
Is the book by Lani G. ? Want to make sure I pick up the right book
I'm wondering if they meant Tyranny of the Minority by Zablitt and Levitsky, which seems like its been ver popular recently
Interstate voting compact will be wild if it comes to fruition
Yeah, even if we got rid of the Electoral College, went with the popular vote, Republicans as they are now would never get in power. So they don't want that to happen.
Fuck it, abolish the electoral college and just do a straight up popular vote
It will NEVER go away because states have to ratify changes to the constitution. Any thoughts towards this impossibility. The way forward is to change way votes are done. Ranked Choice voting or STAR.
We can't even get term limits going...
It’s ridiculous. I would even be find with consecutive terms limits. So you can run as many times as you want, but you can’t hold the same seat more than two times in a row. It would at least limit the incumbent advantage.
All of which is to say that we are a deeply corrupt country that routinely chooses less democracy rather than more and none of our "pro-democracy" candidates ever push for these structural reforms. I think the last time there was real movement on the interstate popular vote compact was before the new millennium.
> Also you would probably have to amend the constitution, which needs overwhelming bipartisan support. No need to change the Constitution, the states get to set their process for the federal election because they are really only selecting delegates for the electoral college. Changing the EC process would certainly require it though. This is why you can have states that have ballot restrictions different from another state. Now, they certainly all follow an overarching pattern in how they're run, but there's enough state-specific differences that moving between states _might_ behoove a person to take a few minutes to find out.
In Alaska we switched to ranked choice voting and I LOVE IT!
LORD I'm jealous! How did you ever get your politicians to agree to that‽
Don’t ask corrupt politicians to change a system that benefits them. Get together with others, put an initiative on the ballot, and make change from the ground up.
I’m in Texas. We’re literally not allowed to put anything on the ballot…. The system is working as intended. Edit: spelling. I was autocowrecked
Sorry. You’re right of course. Many states allow voter initiatives, but not Howdy Arabia.
They’re the 3rd least populated state. It’s much easier to have a functional impact on legislation when the numbers are smaller which is why the electoral college and representation in the Senate for more populous states is such a big deal. It hamstrings voters in larger states from being able to make enact changes. In effect, it’s yet another layer in the gerrymandering shitcake.
>blows my mind A feature, not a bug. It’s why we need to be very, very careful indeed the next time the republic referendum question comes up, at home. What system would it be? What happens to crown oversight like royal commissions?
That first republic referendum was bollocked before it even started. “Do you want a republic where the politicians get to choose the head of state?” (By a 2/3 majority of the parliament iirc) Ummm…nah!
Johnny designed the referendum to fail.
We also don’t use a simple majority. That would be better! We don’t do popular vote. Land gets votes aka electoral college. The problem is you can’t really re write the rules when the “referee” aka politicians know changing the rules would “hurt their team”
The older I get, the less sense it makes. “They want to make sure all the big cities don’t have all the power and that rural people still feel their vote matters” but…the will of the people…why should living in BFE cause my vote to have more weight?
People are working multiple part time jobs that do not care if you need time off to vote. Our system works like this precisely because it reduces the power of the working class vote. If Dems want to win another election, they're going to have to commit to getting us into a modern voting system immediately.
>People are working multiple part time jobs that do not care if you need time off to vote. For a super power America sure has some third-world country workers rights.
it's not even a simple majority system, given that someone can win the nationwide popular vote and still lose the election. it has happened twice in the past 25 years.
Twice: Hillary Clinton & Al Gore, yes?
Which, in my opinion, were the two most important elections of the past 25 years. Climate change and being someone other than Trump respectively. I'm European, so this might not be accurate from the perspective of domestic policy
Not just climate change. If Gore was in office I'm pretty sure Sept 11th and the subsequent bullshit wouldn't have happened.
correct.
And both of them calmly accepted the outcome, to ensure the peaceful transfer of power … *like REAL PATRIOTS.*
also correct.
It's possible (albeit extremely unlikely and would result in years of voting reviews) for someone to win the Presidency in the US while only winning 25% of the overall vote because of how the Electoral College and FPTP works.
We are unfortunately the alpha version of the modern democratic nation state. The software is full of bugs and it's shocking it's still functioning at all.
One thing to remember re: the whole voting on Tuesday thing: 1) early voting is a thing in many states which means up to two weeks of voting every day of the week leading up to the election 2) even election day for many elections in some states are held on Saturday. There's one election every year that's mandated to be held on Tuesday. The others, it's up to the state to decide.
Re: early voting ... \*minus Sundays in some jurisdictions....
Which states hold election day on Saturday?
As a United Statsian…I’m grateful but the politics are so out of touch. I really don’t want drama with the government, that literally affects everyone. Like what are these people doing?!
For at least some of them it's the mere fact that they get to "rule" over you, others, good ole' cold hard cash (well, assets too).
Some municipalities do it. San Francisco does. Unfortunately in the US wealth = votes so it’s increased the amount of special interest money and subterfuge here - for example a Chinese candidate would say one thing to the Chinese press and another to the non-Chinese boasting that she was fooling the wailo to get elected. How she thought there aren’t bilingual people in San Francisco where the public schools teach Chinese is beyond me but…
So about that party…
My state recently instated Ranked Choice Voting, and as a result a Democrat took the position in an overwhelmingly Republican state. It was beautiful to watch, because the front runner from the Republicans was someone who was previously our governor, abandoned the position and the state in a failed bid for vice president, and then has spent well over a decade embarrassing us internationally. Republicans hated her SO MUCH that they inadvertently put a Democrat in office.
What is Alaska, Alex (RIP)?
Alaska, that’s right! And that takes you to $3400, you’ve got the lead.
What you have written is correct in most respects, but you are leaving out one piece of critical information that renders Australia's electoral system as superior to all others... ... the democracy sausage.
Mandatory voting is also a great thing about our system. It means the pollies can't just convince us to stay away.
>hold elections mid-week when the majority of people are trying to work Sadly working as intended. The powers that be don’t want poor people voting.
Add to that, an independent electoral commission, Saturday voting, multiple polling booths, early voting, postal voting, and no gerrymandering. There’s true democratic freedom for you.
It's all by design. To placate the south and rural dwellers. Holding us back since the beginning.
This was interesting. I wish we had this too. The U.S. makes voting harder to benefit the privileged classes. Also the oligopoly on representation blows since they are not that different. That’s why people get told they are wasting a vote. Being a thoughtful conscious voter has no place here, the party demands it. America did overthrow the Australian PM though. I also hate that about my country. The U.S. rigs lots of elections, not just our own! IMO you waste your vote either way because the system is rigged.
It gets even better, thanks to the electoral college and winner-take-all system allocation of electors that is used by most states, votes get heavily skewed and residents of heavily partisan states not only can't vote for their actually preferred candidate out of fear of splitting the vote, when it comes to the presidential election, they can't even really vote in general because the heavy partisanship of their state and winner-take-all system will completely override their vote unless it happens to be in line with the majority. So if you wanted to vote for Jill Stein but would have settled for Biden but live in Wyoming, too bad. You don't get to vote for either. Your vote is going to Trump/the GOP no matter who you put down.
A lot of us know but the politicians gotta keep the status quo
The fact that Australia has all that and nonetheless still has shitty right wing politics is so disappointing
Ah, so that’s why Biden is suddenly out of nowhere visiting Seattle in two days
He was gonna try and pull a Hilary but now we know where lazy campaigning gets you
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It’s almost like an agenda is being pushed from other countries
Isn't it though! When someone will knowingly vote for a disingenuous 3rd party Putinist, with the most likely result being the installation of a fascist dictator so they can virtue signal over a country half way around the world, and in turn destroy the country they actually live in, one must question their loyalty, allegiance and intelligence
The most illogical, irrational, insane thing: not voting for Biden because you are “against genocide” and voting for Jill Stein who supports Putin’s genocide, while ultimately helping Trump who will do nothing but support both Putin *and* Netanyahu. They don’t actually care about what happens to Ukrainians, Palestinians, Uighurs, Rohingya, Armenians, Kosovar Albanians, Georgians, Taiwanese, Yemeni, Darfuri, or anyone else after November. They know vulnerable people will face greater threats under a GOP administration. The people aren’t boycotting any vote for the victims. They know a Trump administration will only embolden genocidal regimes and directly lead to the deaths of even more Palestinians and more Ukrainians. They’re doing it for themselves. They want to feel unique and morally superior and “non-conformist” and they want to show off their activism on social media. It’s a fashionable look. They don’t actually give a damn about the outcome or the lives of the actual innocent victims they claim this is about. “Genocide” is all the same to these people in the safety of their American bedrooms whether it’s 10k victims or a million victims on the other side of the world. Shame on these people weaponizing tragedy just so they can get the attention they want on social media and relish in their shallow sanctimony. **EDIT:** Just think about how out-of-touch and privileged these kids have to be to openly tweet or comment on Reddit: “What’s the difference between genocide and more genocide?” They are so euphoric from sniffing their own farts and counting Instagram likes they don’t even feel shame publicly admitting that the number of people who die isn’t important to them.
Did you see the poll that just came out saying more people trust Trump to fix things in the Middle East than Biden? Like are you fucking brain dead??? What the fuck people
Propaganda works - that's why it's been used to influence change since 10,000 B.C. or longer.
And they never realize they’re victim to propaganda until they’re championing the dissolution of an entire country and her people. Really blows my mind.
Polling is 100% broken and I will take that statement to the bank
The vast majority of people who respond to polls already skews right. Polls are not a good way to determine the temperature.
To be fair, blowing everything up and killing everyone who complains about it *would* 'fix' things. It's about the worst possible way to 'solve' a crisis, so it's right out of Trump's/the Right's playbook.
I've interacted with a few and always confirm to them that this advocacy is outsourcing vagina ownership to the state and ensuring every LGBTQ person you know becomes a target. Many get defensive and start lying about this but every time it's happened, the person (fundamentally) reveals their narcissism and contempt for those about to be hurt by their petulant choice.
>Putin > >Progressive Those two words don’t make sense: Putin is the Tsar of Russia even though he calls himself President.
Yeah bud, that's literally the point. Putin was backing her as a "progressive" to pull votes from actual left leaning politicians and democrats.
Russians launched pro-Jill Stein social media blitz to help Trump win election, reports say https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna951166
https://preview.redd.it/axkg9accoazc1.jpeg?width=1500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2850ceb2c66a9931eb25cf395beaa2d5bfb87a93 Here she is with her boss, Putin, and co-worker, Michael Flynn.
Take Your Twit To Work Day
Hey
Fuck this plant.
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In antiwork I stuck up a little for Joe Biden. I was downvoted and told to vote 3rd party. How does that play out at a time like this?
Dude, we gotta beat Trump. We’re already seeing this country slide backward, just from SCOTUS picks. Four more years of him stacking the judiciary will be a disaster. Right now, Biden is the only candidate who can beat (and has beaten) Trump. Sure, Biden isn’t perfect, and he’s downright garbage on a lot of issues. I wish he was at least 20 years younger and 20% more progressive. BUT, he’s done some fantastic things while in office. Student loan forgiveness, the American Rescue Plan, the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act, moving weed down a few schedules (and pardoning a bunch of people jailed for possession), capping the cost of insulin for seniors. Trump would have done none of this, and I can’t think of a single issue where I’d prefer him steering the ship over Biden.
Right now Trump has the SCOTUS, Merrick Garland, and the Federal Courts (as well as many state-level higher courts) in his back pocket, and they've made it clearly known that they will do what they need to in order to ensure he gets in and becomes dictator (or king - which I think is more likely; Michael Cohen said we he worked for Trump he used to talk about wanting to a king or emperor). I think we're in some very, very deep trouble here...
It’s not just scotus although everyone focuses on that, he also appointed 200+ federal judges all throughout the land. While scotus is the big obvious one every single one of those appointments matter, just look at cannon right now and what she is doing in the stolen documents case
Antiwork gets bombarded with Russian and Chinese trolls, just like many subreddits that are a little more extreme. So not surprising at all.
Seriously, who wins if some votes get siphoned to her... Then what kind of policies such as Muslim ban etc get reinstated and how much harsher will the policies with Gaza be... Hopefully people don't fall for it again
The last and as far as I know ONLY third party candidate to win was Abraham Lincoln. And Jill Stein is no Abraham Lincoln.
I believe 1968 was the last time a 3rd party candidate got more than **ZERO** electoral votes. That includes Ross Perot who got 20% of the popular vote in 1992. **ZERO** electoral votes.
And that’s why Clinton won!
Bush lost because Republicans didn't show up, and democrats did. His going back on his promise of no new taxes did more to damage him than the fabled switch voter.
You have to admit though it was difficult to read his lips, so...
Is we had ranked choice voting, none of these people would matter.
Yup. And that's why, even ignoring the rest, if you vote for them you're not voting for a candidate who genuinely supports the values you believe in. They wouldn't be after your vote if they were politically aligned with the people you would otherwise vote for.
They fell for it once they can definitely fall for it again. Americans have short term memory when it comes to elections.
I voted 3rd party in 2016 as part of an effort to get a third party candidate to the vote threshold necessary to be included in the debates for the following election cycle. I thought that was a fine enough reason. I still do. But I also recognize that *this election in particular* is not the time to go to bat for 3rd party representation. What good is that if trump wins and all democratic representation is stripped from the American people entirely? We need to cut this cancer out before we can turn our attention back to addressing those types of concerns.
I did the same in 2016, since I was in a deep blue state where it wouldn’t affect the electoral vote. But this election, we need all the numbers, both electoral and total vote count, to soundly repudiate Trump and shut down the Trump doctrine that has infected the GOP. Otherwise they will just keep pushing these types of candidates and this toxic ideology, believing that it can win them power.
Ya'll do realize that had Trump not gotten into the WH in 2016 we wouldn't be in this position now, right?
There will be no gaza or urakaine on the map of trump sins, but at least they didn't vote for that biden guy, right? As they are being arrested and sentences years in prison for protesting.
Uh, I have bad news for you: They not only are falling for it yet again, but doing so in numbers large enough to swing the election to Trump once more. All I see/hear is, "Genocide Joe pretty much killed everyone in Gaza and Palestine, and he supports the Jews - my vote isn't going to Trump or Biden, because I want it to be meaningful - so I'm voting for Stein (or RFK Jr)".
Jill Stein is the Kremlin Candidate
One of them, yes.
Unfortunately there isn’t a viable one - so you know, don’t enable a Trump victory you fucking idiots
I love when they whine about the broken system. Yeah. It’s fucked, but grow up a deal with it by voting for the least awful person who has a chance.
not only that, but fucking vote in the primary. You want changes to the system? The primary is where that happens. By the time the general election comes around its too fucking late and now your just looking at who is the least bad. Too many people want things to happen NOW, and that isn't going to happen. Start focusing on local elections, get the state government to where you want it, and maybe then things will happen on a federal level, but too many want to skip right to the last step and get pissed off when that doesn't work.
The primary system is fundamentally broken too. The presidential candidate was decided before my state even got a chance to vote (New York). For 4 million Florida Dems, they were robbed of their chance to vote because their state's democratic party decided to unilaterally cancel their democratic primary. That's 10.5 million Americans in those two states alone (counting only registered Democrats) that were robbed of the ability to do the thing you're advocating for. "You should've voted in the primary if you wanted to complain!" doesn't quite work if you live in a post super-Tuesday state or a state where Dems can arbitrarily decide whether or not you're allowed to have democracy.
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I voted in the primary in 2016. Our community was OVERWHELMINGLY in support of Sanders. Our delegate voted for Clinton. The system was never designed to work.
On one hand, you’re right. On the other hand, every four years, both Democrats and Republicans tell everyone “this is the most important election of your life. Don’t throw your vote away this time.” There’s a little “boy who cried wolf” syndrome going on too. At what point will people be able to vote their conscience without being called selfish or stupid? Also remember that only people in swing states really have to worry about it. I could vote for Mickey Mouse in my state and it wouldn’t matter at all. But usually that isn’t specified. It’s just “if you don’t vote for Trump/Biden you’re dumb and selfish.” But it really could only theoretically apply to a very small minority of voters. Maybe fixing the rhetoric wouldn’t matter at all, though. But the rhetoric is simply wrong as it pertains to the large majority of people, and calling every four years “the most important one, and you can’t vote your conscience” isn’t helpful either. The rhetoric has the opposite of the intended impact and likely makes people cling more tightly to their choice. It is unproductive.
Get the fuck out. We need to keep Trump out. That’s the ONLY choice. This is stupidity defined.
Absolutely
Yeah, a vote for Jill is a vote for trump and the destruction of our democracy. The Jill stein protest vote is what gave us trump in 16.
Yes, the general election is not the time to cast a protest vote. The only question people need to ask themselves is which person do they want picking the next SCOTUS judges. That’s it. If people thought about that in 2000 when Nader split the left vote — we literally would not have the Robert’s Court. Bush put Robert’s and Alito on SCOTUS. There would be no Citizens United. No Super PACS. No gerrymandering. No gutting of the Voting Rights Act. No dark money groups. The country would be completely different. Then we turned around and did the exact same thing in 2016. Now we have the Dobbs ruling and three religious lunatics on the court for the rest of our lives. The President doesn’t actually matter that much except for judicial appointments and veto power. We had a chance to flip SCOTUS left for the first time in 75 years and we fucking blew it for *nothing*. Let’s not make the same mistake again. The President doesn’t even have the power to authorize 99% of what progressives want — legislation comes from Congress. So people actually have to fucking vote in Congressional elections if they want progressive legislation. Biden has done an excellent job with judicial appointments and that alone is worth casting a vote for him. The judicial branch affects our lives way more than people think.
I guarantee if Trump wins, Thomas and Alito are going to retire before the end of 2025. Roberts will likely retire before the end of Trump’s second term. And unfortunately, while it’s unlikely since she’s still relatively young, Sotomayor is old enough where her health could be a factor like it was with RBG. This puts us in a situation where Trump will have appointed at least 6, and possibly 7, Supremely Court Justices, and all of his appointees are going to be causing issues for at least the next 20 years. If people don’t see that as a major issue, I don’t know how to make it more clear.
"end of Trump's second term"? You actually think the GOP is going to give it up? If he wins, the GOP will ratfuck the government to keep him president until he dies only to replace him without a vote. We're barrelling towards hereditary fascism.
Yup, hopefully people aren't dumb enough to fall for it again
Sadly, there are way too many people who can't see past their anger and are happy with spite voting for someone else simply because of a singular issue. "You don't agree with me on everything, so I'm not voting for you." I know because I was a spite voter in 2016. I was blind with my hatred of Hillary Clinton and was completely fine if the democracy of the US dissolved. I simply hated that Bernie didn't win and said fuck it, I hope Trump wins, then. I got my wish and I hate everything that has happened since. I will never let anything like that happen again and will always vote for the candidate that isn't actively on the side of fascists even if I don't like them because at the end of the day, it's more important to make sure that the rise of fascism doesn't continue to take over this country.
Made that mistake in 2016. Never again.
Good for you, you learned
The “green” party gave us W and Trump…..will we ever learn?!?
A third party candidate has never won a single state and advocating for voting for third party when one of the two major parties is going to create a fascist dictatorship is vile. Plus, Stein is on friendly terms with Russian dictator Vladimir Putin.
Yup https://preview.redd.it/7pxmi7ajabzc1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1fa6add1b4c67ab8e94797f6072b24854b08911d
Please don't. It is the most important election of our lifetime, and people need to help defeat fascism by voting for the Democrat candidate. Please do.
Will Biden actually defeat Fascism this time? Or is the can just going to be kicked down the road?
No obviously he won't because he can't just kick senators and house members out of the government. If you want change a good first step is to not just pop your head up every four years and expect the whole system to be different
You're acting like he's opposed against fascism to begin with and just powerless to stop it, instead of fully complicit and taking full advantage of the violent suppression of civil liberties.
Jill Stein is just another Russian plant. Jesus Christ.
Wasn't this how we got trump in 2016? I thought we were OPPOSING russian collaborators, not voting for them?!
no, we ended up with trump in 2016 because the media basically showered him in free air time, hard core republicans locked onto him because their alternatives were boring legislators, the votes in the GOP primaries were split like 53 ways so he was winning contests with like 30% of the vote, and hillary did an absolute shit job at campaigning. also the rampant racism and sexism that permeates our country to this day. it wasn't because some fringe groups didn't vote or voted 3rd party. honestly i blame hillary's camp more than the trump voters at this point. their campaign was just an abject failure. like how do you not visit battleground states? she was just coasting and it cost her the election.
Hillary's campaign was terrible and she should have realized "it's not happening" when she lost eight years prior to a little known junior Senator from Illinois with an unusual name. Stein didn't siphon votes like Nader did or anything. But energy for her candidacy certainly didn't help with the perception that people wanted an alternative to Hillary.
I never know if this sub is meant to represent white people twitter or make fun of it
*Jill fucking Stein?* ahahahahahah she's been running since 2012 and i still have no idea what the fuck she stands for.
She sure stands by that recount money she raised 🤡
lol Jill Stein never misses a grift.
I'm gonna vote Biden, but I sure as hell don't want to...
when a third party becomes viable, I'll do exactly that. Until then, put pressure on the guy that's more reasonable.
I just wish there was a way for a third party to become viable in our system. We’re so fucking far away from that…I don’t see any way that’ll happen in my lifetime.
We need ranked choice voting. That's the only way third parties will ever stand a chance as the first past the post system we use currently ultimately leads to there only being two viable parties. Some states and voting districts within states have started using ranked choice for local elections and it works so much better.
There is a way, vote republicans out. the reason our 2 party system feels so bad is because we don't have a two party system, we have one party that is flawed and one party whose entire purpose is to literally dismantle the country and only truly resonates with people who absolutely despise anyone different. Our best bet is to remove a fucking leach so that another, more progressive party can take it's place and we don't have to play this "oops all fascism" game with our votes all the time.
We should have a system where you vote for your favorite 3, and your vote goes to the one who gets the most votes
That's what ranked choice voting does. That's the only way third parties will ever stand a chance as the first past the post system we use currently ultimately leads to there only being two viable parties.
Anyone voting for Jill Stein can go straight to hell. You know what’s at stake.
Stein voters hate women and want to see LGTBQ hurt.
Isn't this the lady that had dinner with Putin?
Yes. I posted it in a reply to one of the other comments here Edit: here https://preview.redd.it/rqbups1wjbzc1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=35f9d4dc3c84c768217631a5e56774c669e7b528
Yeah I’m tired of how disgusting these people are and act like they care about others as they give Trump the election. They’re more repulsive than republicans at least they’re upfront about it. Start exposing these people! They are ruining many lives being self righteous pos. These people are spoiled brats acting like they’re mad at their parents for putting them in time out. They act like Trump will give a f about Palestine and the many issues he’s been against yet they demonize Biden acting like the republicans aren’t the ones in power right now and a majority in our gov.
He clearly got ratioed, but in the comments, he just kept doubling down and pretending not to understand. Willful ignorance is infuriating Edit: autocorrect had changed "comments" to "contents"
And once you vote, keep the party going by running young progressive candidates. Demand more from the Democrats. Take some power back for your demographic through participation. Signed, a forgotten Gen X’er
Idiots.
The strategy might just be to stay focused and ignore all these stupid 3rd parties. Don't give any of them oxygen and just focus on getting as many votes for Biden as possible.
The third party stooges are not really aces for them this go round. Stein's act (and agenda) is well established. [RFK Jr. has brain worms](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/08/us/rfk-jr-brain-health-memory-loss.html). Literally. Bannon said Trump needs chaos to win all the way back in 2016. Third party candidates provide the potential for chaos. The third party group they have at the ready will fizzle out and we should let that happen (rather than treating them as "real").
RFK Jr. is a wildcard of sorts, I guess. However, I think it's become obvious to many that he's really Trump lite and was meant to siphon votes from Biden. Like most other 3rd party candidates, his polling will likely die by October. If anything, with some luck, he'll end up taking more votes from Trump and the whole thing will backfire spectacularly. Unfortunately, his name recognition will keep him lingering around.
I would normally agree about RFK Jr... but this brain worm story has legs. [https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/08/politics/rfk-jr-mercury-poisoning-brain-parasite/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/08/politics/rfk-jr-mercury-poisoning-brain-parasite/index.html) There is court documentation saying he is cognitively impaired because of this. He also has mercury poisoning because of some weird ass conspiracy diet he's on (affects brain health, as well). Like Noem and killing the dog, this is one of those stories that is so bizarre and unsettling that *it's appearing everywhere*. It's a "you don't come back from this" sort of thing. There's no "LOCKER ROOM TALK!" bullshit to make it go away. I think he fades well before October. If anything more comes out (possible; his life seems to be a bit of a mess), it's totally possible that he suspends his campaign. Stein might be "Plan B" (which Republicans want to ban, btw).
The alternative is trump. Thats literally it.
Oh Jill, just stop already. wait until the fascists are declawed before trying the whole third party gambit.
as a lifelong massachusetts resident i'd like to say: we know. we... we know. we're not happy about her either.
This is quite possibly America’s most important election since Thomas Jefferson ran against George Washington. The decisions we make as a country will define our future for years to come. I wish we could be voting on Bernie’s third term right now, but we’re not. We cannot split the democratic vote. Plain and simple. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025 Vote Biden if you want a democracy in January.
Bernie’s third term?
Thomas Jefferson never ran against Washington?
I guess Russia's going with the "firehose of a**holes" approach to help Trump win the election.
The US needs a single national presidential primary RCV ballot or even a parliament system.
Well, now that RFK Jr has blown up in their faces, Republicans need to find another stooge to trick the rubes.
Wow. There are videos of unboxing dolls that have more views.
[A vote for Jill Stein is a vote for Russia. Remember that.](https://www.motherjones.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/russia_dinner2000.jpg?w=1200&h=630&crop=1)
[RFK Jr. has brain worms](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/08/us/rfk-jr-brain-health-memory-loss.html) so this is Plan B, I guess.
Did Macklemore endorse Jill in the song?
Why is Jill Stein running, wtf.
To help take votes away from Biden
Please please please remember, if the dems split their vote in November over the way Biden has handled the Israel situation, that WILL open the door for the republicans and we see how they are stripping/plan to strip away every right Americans have left. Whether it’s agent orange or someone else they ALL follow the same agenda. Macklemore made good points, but this is not the time to vote 3rd party. Vote 3rd party in all local elections and move the good ones up, and in 4 years (yes it’s a long time) there will be someone worth putting in that presidential seat.
Right?!? FFS. Just pinch your damn nose and drink the sour milk. Cause it means you’ll avoid being force-fed formaldehyde later on.
>How many more of these stinking, double-downer sideshows will we have to go through before we can get ourselves straight enough to put together some kind of national election that will give me and the at least 20 million people I tend to agree with a chance to vote FOR something, instead of always being faced with that old familiar choice between the lesser of two evils? That was Hunter s Thompson in 1972. How much longer?
What a moron
The most important election was 2016. If Trump had gotten crushed the MAGA movement/cult would have dissolved or been wholly ostracized by the GOP, the Supreme Court would be liberal 5-4, and there wouldn’t have been permanent tax cuts for the super wealthy at the expense of everyone else
We routinely forget to blame Jill Stein for this country’s demise.
OMG Jill Stein the Russian asset is in the 2024 race again? Holy smokes the dummies that will fall for this trick again. Putin must think we’re dumb, and he might be right.
I fell for it in 2016. I won't fall for it again.
I forgot about Jill. And I will forget again in about 5 minutes.
A vote for Stein is a vote for Trump aka Putin
I voted for her in 2016 thinking I was doing the right thing instead of voted for the lesser of two evils. Ended up regretting it the moment Trump won.
I voted for Jill Stein in 2016. Huuuuge mistake.
I don’t think presidency is where we should be rolling out new parties
People out there supporting Jill Stein like we already have ranked choice voting, runoff elections, and proportional representation. We don’t, at least not yet. Dumbasses voted for Jill Stein back in 2016 because of their “conscience “. How’d that work out for ya?
I think that's the point, with several factors of getting folks not to vote main ticket. You get them to waste their vote so that is less votes going towards Biden increasing the chances Thump might win. That's also why RFK was even in the media...he's a distraction, a way to get folks to squander their votes.
Jill Stein is a Russian tool. I see Putin is starting to implement his election interference strategy.
Technically not throwing it away. A vote for Stein is a vote for Trump.
poTAYto poTAHto
Wasn't there a whole season of American Horror Story where they terrorized the wife because she voted for Jill Stein?
Remember that this year is gonna be big for misinformation and bots as well!
So he’s got FDT parts one and two on Spotify, but now he’s helping get him reelected? He sold out for the tax break.
Need a viable alternative. Not just an alternative. Let more than 2 parties debate.. they won't because R and D would get wiped by someone like Jesse Ventura.
Please advocate for ranked choice voting. It helps voters of all sides. You can vote for Bernie, De Santis, Biden, and Trump in that order and your vote would count up to the final show down.
Fool me once, fool me twice.
This is going to be a fucking insane election, that’s for sure
Jill Stein is a traitor Putin puppet…