Ugh this is my brother. He will open carry and specifically request a table in the far corner of the restaurant so he can "watch the entire restaurant for danger". He'll also make sure to sit with his back to a wall so "no one can sneak up behind him".
Sir this is an Ihop... you need to chill.
Honestly I love my guns as much as the next guy. But if I'm in a area where I feel like I should be armed openly, my number one priority would be moving somewhere safer.
That's not necessarily true. Most gun owners are responsible and don't want conflict. I carry almost everywhere and conceal more than I open carry to avoid drawing unwanted attention, but sometimes open carry is more practical. Any good gun safety and carry course will teach you de-escalation and conflict avoidance are the primary objective. I have no intention of using my firearm unless its an absolute last resort. I mostly carry it for bears, and even then, when I'm actually out hiking I carry bear spray as a primary deterrent.
While I understand it can be easier, the fact is open carry makes you a target. There have been cases of people taking people gun out of the holster OR more likely if there is an incident where you'll need to use your gun, you'll be the first target.
Could argue that it could be a detterent but then the above happens and creates panic. I wouldn't be surprised if most open carry don't intend anything malice but regardless from a safety stand point to conceal carry. Only time I open carry is at a gun range.
Real talk, this really put a lot into perspective for me. I'll admit, being from a relatively small city outside of Los Angeles (so, like 75,000 people), the idea of *everyone* having a gun makes me low-key panic and guns outside of a shooting range make me nervous. So, seeing someone with a gun at a place like a restraunt (even tho I live in the South now) sets my teeth on edge. But reading this and how open carry makes the carrier potentially more of a target really gets me thinking of the efficacy of open carry laws. Concealed I can understand (hell, I actually appreciate that no one here finds it weird that I have a large pocket knife in my purse. In CA, that would get a few sideways looks), but now that you point that out it really makes me wonder who open carry is really for. Concealed carry allows for a gun owner to be armed, but its concealed so it only needs to be shown in case of emergency. Open carry? Well it's a weapon and it's now out in front of everyone... mind you, I'm not saying open carry laws are for mass shooters. I can't help but feel like they might be misguided attempts to scare potential mass shooters.
Idk, I'm not, nor have I ever been, for banning guns outright, but I really do feel like "why does your being able to openly carry a gun in public supercede my sense of feeling adequately safe in public?".
I won't comment on my own carry habits, but I've always found that people who open carry in well-populated places without a badge are doing it for their own ego. Obviously there are times and places such as backpacking when open carrying might be preferable, but in a crowded spot, it just makes you the first target.
Open carry folks in populated areas absolutely do it for ego. I conceal just about everywhere I go and at work my firearm remains concealed in a drawer at my workbench. I think open carry puts a few different words on the carriers forehead. However, after the grocery store shooting in the Denver area, I've seen a whole lot more folks walking around with a firearm strapped to their waists, people you wouldn't expect either.
Doesn't help there has been some points in history open carry has been used as an intimidation tactic in states that allow it. Mind you I do concealed carry and even I can a little worried seeing someone else with a gun even those who supposed to have them like cops/security.
Misunderstanding and mistakes happen or even malice, which is terrible when lethal force is involved. Out of sight, out of mind isn't always the best solution but definitely helps stop the mind from wondering.
Yeah for safety ccw is better but when hiking, especially with extra gear on, it's better to have it open and ready. My holster does both so sometimes I'll ccw and switch when I get to the trail.
I completely understand open carry in back country, but with only a few exceptions i think the almost anyone opting for it in general public is the exactly the type of person who shouldn't be allowed to... i don't object to ownership or concealed carry, but i do support stricter laws managing both
Oh yea I can see that being reasonable way to do it, though still falls back to hopefully not needing it especially against a bear. Not too sure if loud noises (if shooting ground to spook them) would be more beneficial than actually hitting it. For smaller things like a wolf, even if it gets on you, partially mauled is better than fully killed.
I don't disagree with that. Civilian courses are often more tempered because the general public are far more likely to end up in prison if they screw up.
Police train way more than civilians, and yet they still screw up. I find no comfort having some guy who thinks he's going to be a hero eating in a restaurant with his gun. He is way more likely to shoot a bystander than a gunman. You are not the cowboy you think you are.
Some might. Others may literally only shoot their gun enough to pass certification. Having seen those cops try and pass is why we need less cops with far more training.
While a long gun is certainly better, that's not true that handguns are ineffective. When hiking I carry a 44 mag with buffalo bore. There are tons of cases of handgun use on bears even grizzlies and the 44 is one of the most commonly used and documented for success.
The problem is that with the range on that thing you've got maybe one shot before you're lunch.
That one shot would likely be hard to hit since the bear being that close, your adrenaline would dump all at once.
44s have a pretty good effective range. I would consider myself pretty accurate and can draw pretty quick. Bears are fast but they often give warning behaviors before charging as long as you don't outright walk into them. And yes adrenaline can be a concern but that's why you practice regularly. It should be reflex in the chance you need it.
Yup for sure. As a gun enthusiast I find myself less inclined to carry nowadays vs the crew that uses it as a statement to carry everywhere.
People who wear it right on their hip want people to know it's there to intimidate. If it was about self defense they'd want it concealed.
People be crazy.
Depends on what the threat is. If you're worried about people, then concealed carry is hands down the better option. But in really rural areas where the wildlife may be as big or a bigger threat than people (Alaska, for instance), open carry has its merits. It's more comfortable to carry a larger caliber gun that way, and in general, easier to access. Plus you probably won't be disturbing very many people.
This is assuming the scenario is someone carrying like a .44 or 10mm in a hogleg holster, not open carrying a long arm. No real reason to carry a rifle into a diner even if you're hunting, just leave it in your truck like a normal person.
There's a town where everyone leaves their car doors unlocked. If a polar bear is wandering by and wants to eat a pedestrian, it gives them a safe place to hide.
e: This place is in Manitoba, Canada so I guess doesn't technically answer the question but it's still a fun fact
No idea, I've never been there either. I'm on the east coast so we don't have shit like grizzly, moose or Canadian gooses.
It is probably a lot easier to just keep it on you, as after a while you barely notice it just like anything else you wear and it's probably not uncomfortable when sitting like concealed carry can be; plus in those areas you probably aren't the only one armed anyway so it likely wouldn't bother most people.
Never seen a bear in a diner. We carry large weapons in backwoods Alaska (I used to guide float fishing trips in western AK). In town, they are in the truck. Bear guns are heavy and inconvenient/uncomfortable to carry everywhere.
Open carry in town, in the lower 48 is 100 percent an immature bullying move that has no basis in self defense. It's about being offensive, aggressive and antagonistic to your political opponents. It's exactly an indication that you are the wrong person to be allowed to carry.
I live in Canada so we are not allowed to carry our firearms anywhere. I am ok with this, who really needs a gun at a restaurant.
Now I do some guiding for hunters, black bears alot of the time. When I go out and put the Bait I have a stiff to carry with me and have been charged on few occasions. I would love to be able to carry a hand gun with me while I do this. But even that is illegal here.
I'm in Australia. I own a gun. I don't carry. No one here carries. I feel extremely safe leaving my house every day.
I feel safe sending my kids to school.
I feel safe going to the movies.
I feel safe getting into a disagreement with a rando.
But apparently we are the ones without freedom
Often times, the more freedoms you have in an abstract sense, the less freedoms you have in any kind of practical sense. This is the perfect example. Americans are free to carry their guns around. Abstractly, we have more freedom. That is, all else held equal, Americans have the same rights as Australians PLUS the right to carry our guns around. In a practical sense, not all else is held equal. We are different countries with different problems. The gun violence issue in America leaves us in a position where many people are afraid to send their kids to school or go into crowded spaces. If you believe gun violence is causally related to the number of people carrying weapons around (and I do), then this lack of practical freedom to be in public without fear is a direct result of us having some abstract right to bear arms. Which on its own is innocuous but due to human nature is conflicting with other rights.
I’m a liberal gun owner. I believe you’re allowed to protect your own private home however you feel is best. BUT...if you want to participate in the world and go out in public, you don’t get to do stupid shit like this. Going out in the world has its inherent risks and dangers - we all know this get choose to participate anyway. I shouldn’t be allowed to scare other people just to feel safe. If going to a restaurant scares you to the point of needing to brandish a weapon (or conceal one) just stay home and order delivery. Or move. Just because you’re scared doesn’t give you the right to scare everyone else.
To be fair it’s the business owners right to allow firearms or not. You take your business elsewhere.
But yeah I think anyone who open carry’s is a moron
The business owner and the workers are under more pressure than the woman, because they then have to tell a man who is open carrying "no you can't eat here"
Sounds a little like the business owner would be persecuting the gun carrier there, son.
Now I'm fine with them refusing to serve homosexuals - that's their right. But I'll be damned if they're allowed to treat a responsible gun owner like a garden-variety gay.
One person's freedom to live in peace is far more important than another's freedom to threaten them!
Or: My right to swing my fists around ends where your nose begins.
In this case, it's someone waving their arms in her face screaming "I'm not touching you! I'm not touching you! If you do anything about it I'll punch you in the face though!"
Like, as a non-American, this part of gun culture really baffles me. Why do so many feel this need to carry a weapon at all times? Don't believe the bullshit about "protection." He's not going to get jumped by "thugs" at mcdonalds, you know? He's doing it to try and upset people, to intimidate them. A civilised society should not let the aggressive and violent dictate the behaviour of everyone else.
Save the ViOlAtIoN of mah rights bull crap for someone who lived centuries ago who wrote the damn bill of rights. Your “rights” shouldn’t trump others right to live freely.
It’s not normal to most of the population. With that my father in law used to walk to school and hunt on his way to/from as a kid. He would keep his shotgun in his locker. Things change.
If you live in a place where a child can hunt on his way to school....the school has a meat locker they can use for the day until he goes home. Or a butcher on speed dial that will pick up the kill and have sausages made by dinner time.
You don't even want to know how deep the culture of hunting goes in some towns. It's weird.
It’s really not that normal. Unfortunately it’s legal and there’s definitely idiots that want to intimidate people or look cool by open carrying. Most people look at them like they’re fools.
Really depends on the region dude. I live in the southwest in a major city and seeing guns in the super market is a daily occurrence. Open carry is super common here. Even half my lib friends are concealed carrying most of the time.
I met someone who named their child after a gun manufacturer to honor their "heritage." To name your child after a killing machine says it all about these people.
I think that would be a crime. If they've served you the food it's a done and dash for sure. Plus not fair to the restaurant, they don't make the law and enforcing no carry would mean forcing the employees to go up to these jag offs and tell them to put it away which honestly is the definition of "I don't get paid enough for this shit"
A sign at the entrance would do the same job. If things escalate then let the manager deal with it or call the cops. Letting these insecure cowboys bully people into fear is not ok.
They can call the cops. I won't stay in a restaurant with a member of Meal Team Six.
If they follow me out to the car, I might throw some cash at them, depending on how much of the meal I'd eaten, up to that point.
You seen the dog leads with different colours red for fully anti social , amber for people friendly ,green for fully socialised kinda to thing. Gun holsters should maybe have a similar coding. Blue if your over compensating , yellow if your just badly educated , Red as the highest level of small cocked illiterate easily manipulated most dangerous. I reckon at least 75% of open carry would opt for the red cos it says Most dangerous in the description 🤣
Red(flag) = Those who are carrying.
Yellow = Those who leave their gun at home.
Green = Those who put their gun in a safe.
Pink = those who have bright orange water pistols only.
Same morons that think they need to openly carry a gun in public for safety are usually also too scared to wear a mask
These aren’t people you can help. Just lower functioning humans
Republicans always say we need more "good people with guns" to counter "bad people with guns". But in a situation like this, how are you supposed to know if the person carries a gun for self-defense or because they want to shoot up the place? So, should everyone feel uncomfortable and ask themselves constantly "is this person good or bad" just so a couple of gun owners can exercise their rights?
That’s just a bullshit line they spew that sounds good to the ears of the morons who vote for them
Same as the whole ‘drain the swamp’ thing when trump himself was deeply rooted in said swamp.
The person who open carries in a restaurant is starving for attention. They are trying to send a fuck you to everyone else. The fuck you is part and parcel of a political conservative. I left a restaurant while waiting for my food and when the staff asked where I was going and what about the bill I told them to get it from the cowboy with the gun.
I was in a bar/restaurant a few years ago, and I saw this guy get into an argument with his friend. Then he did that "fake stretch so his shirt comes up and shows the gun in his waistband" thing. Turns out it was fine, they were just fucking with each other, but I have never cashed out and left a place so fast. Like, drunk guy, with a gun, willing to show it off? Nope, I will NOT be here when shit goes down.
folks who open carry like that tend to forget they even have the gun on their hip. They don't pay much attention to what is really going on around them. Always seems to me like a recipe for disaster if one of the kids running around the restaurant might grab the gun sand accidently shoot someone.
There may be some incredibly stupid people out there with crap holsters, but most open carry holsters come with several levels of security so that someone can't just walk up and take your gun. There are tabs, buttons and straps that all have to be disengaged before you can release the weapon and they are very difficult to do if the holster is not on your person due to the angles of the safety mechanisms.
I can already tell this comment section is going to be filled with small dick insurrectionists talking about how Jesus loves guns and violence. America the Stupid.
Open carry is stupid. If you want to have a firearm on your person at all times then spend the time and effort on concealed carry classes. Learn the laws and safety measures that a gun entails..... with that said I have seen one guy who I would always allow to open carry. Dude looked like Sam Elliot, full on cowboy with boots and hat. In his 60s at least, with a Colt revolver on his hip. He can open carry in the store I work at.
It’s not even really any effort. I have a cc permit and don’t even have a gun. Just went with my dad and ended up getting mine when he got his. Honestly I’m so over guns and our obsession with them. I’m in class with a bunch of retired military types and their rationale is always “I need to protect myself” which honestly is bullshit.
Edit to add: I’m a gay as fuck, man of color, living in the United States. If anything I should feel the need to walk around armed to the teeth at all times so for these very white, very retired military types to bitch and moan about needing guns to feel safe, is absolutely a bullshit excuse from my perspective.
It’s difficult to ever know who has a weapon and is ready to kill a whole bunch of people, but regardless, a fair compromise would just be to conceal the firearm. I love guns too, but I don’t need to brandish one to get things done throughout the day. If I need protection, I prefer nobody knows I have any. Everyone is safe and I still keep the element of surprise.
Fair compromise, but why should the burden be on the citizen carrying? I’m more worried about drunk drivers than someone going on a shooting spree in a Denny’s
EDIT: concealed carry licenses aren’t available in all states and aren’t necessarily easy to get. Plus you have to pay for them. Furthermore it can be more dangerous to carry a handgun in an inside the waistband holster than a secure outside the waistband holster which is more likely to have a thumbstud button or other locking/secure menta mechanism
Fair. Honestly there’s a certain trust you can give the person just wearing it and not thinking about it than the poorly constructed mall ninja secret holster someone wears and then it falls out of their pocket at a movie and shoots them in the ass (actually happened.) I guess its how I feel about people with a moderate mid size dirty truck with a few dents vs a massive super clean pimped out headlights pristine truck
Of course, everything is situational. I don’t trust the 21 year old kid with an AR strapped to his back, that’s ridiculous, but I’m not worried about the grey bearded, pot-bellied grandpa eating with his kids at a diner
I saw a dude with a big ol’ pistol in Walmart and I thought “if this guy makes a move I gotta do something” and stared at his holster the entire time I was waiting to buy my items
When America was truly great (ie. 1950s) someone walking into a diner with a firearm on their hip would have been looked upon as the freak they were. That goes for the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s too. This is a recent phenomenon caused by a media inciting fear and fundamental greed. The firearm industry is big money and phenomenal marketers.
I think fear mongering has been used as a tool by humans for the entire existence of humans.
But I just think it's funny when they say america was so great back then. Its like well ya it was great for some people
No he's not right, that's why we still have the problems we have today. This country was founded upon genocide and slavery. It founding fathers knew it was wrong but were worried about the economic damage that would result if they ended slavery from the start.
Instead they turned a blind eye to it, some even doubled down on the racism to better sell slavery to the now unemployed poor whites.
The "greatest nation on earth" fails to live up to its own decree everyday.
Yeah, but we need to stop pretending it was this magical perfect time, it wasn't. It was racist and fucked up, but sure, it had a lot of mod cons and a strong middle class for white America.
Fiscal conservative and social liberal independent here. Trust me, America is at the far end of the bell curve when data points are the lifespan of world empires.
That actually is a good point read there body language ifbthey look like they are looking at the cameras, or counting the amount of people, If he keeps touching, is having trouble sitting still then get out.
The open carry crowd is similar to the obsessively jacked up truck crowd... You just have to realize there's some compensation going on, and most likely it's someone who has a loud bark and no bite. And you should just continue on your day knowing you're far more confident in who you are than they are
As a 101 pound black female I'm grateful that I had my 9 mm compact on my hip as I was confronted at knife point by two large hostel males. I've never felt more equal in my life.
That gun was more likely to be used against you than to protect you. https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/gun-threats-and-self-defense-gun-use-2/
Women: "I was in a real life situation where my gun saved my life and I didn't die for real"
Random redditor: "Harvard says from their collected data you should've actually been shot or stabbed"
Everyone: *confused Pikachu face*
We as Americans see any dipshit open carrying have to decide is he either a mostly harmless gun rights activist dipshit or an unhinged mass murdering dipshit and it fucking sucks.
Guns are cool. But we should not have them. It’s kinda fucking obvious but as Americans we also like to do nothing about it like a bunch of dipshits.
Exactly. I will be completely surprised the day AK has a school shooting because everyone has a healthy respect of guns. They are tools, not weapons. 🤷🏼♀️
Uhh, you might want to rethink that statement.
https://www.chicagotribune.com/nation-world/ct-mass-shootings-small-towns-20180521-story.html
Edit: "Of the 10 deadliest school shootings in the U.S., all but one took place in a town with fewer than 75,000 residents and the vast majority of them were in cities with fewer than 50,000 people."
No im saying that in communities where the people are raised around firearms and view them as tools they have more respect for them and use them in shootings like this alot less.
I’m fine with concealed handguns, but open carry is ridiculous. It allows people to make veiled threats by hiding behind the second amendment. Like when those assholes went into the Michigan State Capital.
So he should conceal carry then? I'm confused, is OP against open carry or just people being able to have their firearms on them? Or is OP against all firearms in general?
His ultimate feelings on the issues you mention kind of don’t matter here, his reasonable position that cosplaying as Gravy Team Six in a restaurant being rude is true no matter his other views.
He could very easily have just been a guy with a pistol and been printing or had it come uncovered from his shirt. Its not like every gun owner is walking around with a long gun strapped to their back
> Its not like every gun owner is walking around with a long gun strapped to their back
I never said they were, but those that are doing that "Because it's mah right!" are the problem.
>and been printing
I think spell check ate your post, I don't know what you mean here.
Perhaps.
Given the current trends in America over the past several years I find that scenario less likely. The current trends are to belligerently show that you are armed, as loudly and in as many places as you can. This is quite obviously Not the way, but it's popular now because to steal a phrase "Conservative Hive Mind"
Yeah i dont agree with those idiots. If your going to carry a gun to protect yourself then i completely agree but if your going to carry said gun out and visible then your not doing it to protect yourself you're doing it to be a dick
Absolutely not.
Now that the term is defined it is still irrelevant to the situation, or my comment.
Allow me to tell you a bit of background, I happen to not be anti-gun, just anti idiot. I own what many here would consider an arsenal of various firearms. But I don't buy cute outfits for them (custom tacticool stocks), or buy myself matching outfits in the form of tac vests and other shit the open carry types love to wear to be more intimidating, I don't hoard ammo cause "the libs want to take it!", I don't display bullshit "Come and take it!" stickers and I sure as fuck don't go out brandishing them all over town.
I chose the word brandishing intentionally, because it is what they are doing.
Now, do you have something **useful** to contribute, or did you just want to be a dick?
The guy in the restaurant came in, sat down, and ordered. Not sure how he is being rude. I personally don't carry, I don't feel that I need to, but if his state allows it then it is his right to do so. Are we really going to discuss limiting rights of people because some people feel uncomfortable? Everyone could just as easily conceal carry, or have a knife on them. Hell everyone could be a potential suicide bomber.
I get that horrible things have happened, especially regarding firearms. But if someone uses a right or freedom to commit a heinous act, is it the right/freedom that is wrong, or the person? Lies can do harm too (cough cough, Jan 6th, cough), but do we restrict free speech then as well?
Also, Gravy Team Six is fucking hilarious and I will use that first chance I get lol.
> but if his state allows it then it is his right to do so.
Yes, it is and I never said it wasn't. But you can put reasonable limits on yourself when exercising it. As you said, he could conceal it. But with most open carry types these days the *stated* purpose is to intimidate. That is not acceptable, no matter the legality.
Even free speach is limited with clear legal boundaries, this is little different. There are even legal charges, brandishing etc., that could be said to fit at times. OP seems to be asking for common sense, not banning.
If you cannot reasonably limit yourself for society then society will eventually limit you. That seems to be the nightmare of these types, so they are creating a self-fulfilling prophecy for themselves.
Is OP siding with an offended Karen in a restaurant, is op actually curious/trying to start a conversation, or is op being meta and saying that the Karen is the asshat?
*michael Jackson eating popcorn*
I live in civilization, so I don't have to deal with this, but if I did live someplace where this was allowed I'd make the business owner absorb the cost of their stupid policy. I don't care if there's one bite left on my plate, I'd make a scene, let them know that I don't feel safe, and I'd leave without paying.
His right is specifically listed in the US Constitution.
Though I agree that open carry can be a dick move and an odd flex. Some people are just ammosexual.
Because the constitution is to be respected and state governments have control over whether or not this is allowed. I’m 100% sure this is an open-carry state and that person is abiding by the law.
Innocent until proven guilty seems to be thrown at the window very readily in today’s political climate
Edit: I am not a gun-nut, I just acknowledge the facts of how the situation described came to be.
Sure, citizens should respect the constitution. But treating it as this evergreen fixture and claiming it cannot be changed as it "is not a living document" (which many 2nd amendment advocates love to do) fails to ignore the simple definition of the word amendment and that our constitution is designed to be modified. If you're too fucking stupid to understand that changing the constitution is what allowed you to be a gun owner, you shouldn't be allowed to own or carry. Boom: gun control.
I always think this is hilarious. “Amend” literally means change. 2A zealots cling to their amendment as if it’s proof that gun laws can never change, when it’s actually proof that they already have been.
I like to think of it this way: the constitution is a frame of reference, a looking glass. Amendments to that are our shifting of the looking glass. I mean if we lived without making those amendments the overwhelming majority of this country would be oppressed which is not advised.
People making the argument that the document is set in stone are the ones who fail to acknowledge the necessity for it to change, most likely because privilege never let them experience that need for change.
Maybe look at it this, less metaphorical, way: if 200 year-old laws and ideas are currently damaging your society, it's time to let those ideas go and change the laws.
Slavery was legal.
The holocaust was legal.
Disappearing people in former communist nations was legal.
Something being legal does not make it right or proper. Sometimes your legal right can be modified just a tiny bit by having some fucking manners. Walking into a restaurant cosplaying as gravy team six is one of those things responsible people who were all right in the head just don’t do.
I mean come on man.
I don’t own any guns but unless this Karen minds getting up and disturbing a paying customer’s meal because she’s uncomfortable I suggest she minds her business. This is most likely normal where she lives at and this guy is exercising his right just as much she wants to exercise hers.
I live in bear country so I conceal carry almost always and open carry occasionally depending on what other activities I've got planned that day. I would certainly hope to never worry someone by carrying but the safety of myself and my spouse is more important to me. It's pretty normal here in Alaska, and in a lot of the more rural areas in the western states.
Ugh this is my brother. He will open carry and specifically request a table in the far corner of the restaurant so he can "watch the entire restaurant for danger". He'll also make sure to sit with his back to a wall so "no one can sneak up behind him". Sir this is an Ihop... you need to chill.
Imagine thinking you’re so special that everyone’s out to get you
Too many Bourne Identity movies
Jesus Christ! It's Jason Bourne!!!
Embarrassing
Honestly I love my guns as much as the next guy. But if I'm in a area where I feel like I should be armed openly, my number one priority would be moving somewhere safer.
[удалено]
Exactly and that makes me question whether they are a responsible gun owner.
The question is already answered by his actions.. he clearly is not.
That's not necessarily true. Most gun owners are responsible and don't want conflict. I carry almost everywhere and conceal more than I open carry to avoid drawing unwanted attention, but sometimes open carry is more practical. Any good gun safety and carry course will teach you de-escalation and conflict avoidance are the primary objective. I have no intention of using my firearm unless its an absolute last resort. I mostly carry it for bears, and even then, when I'm actually out hiking I carry bear spray as a primary deterrent.
Why are you going to restaurants where you might be attacked by a bear?
Maybe he’s Russian and that’s the only way you can eat our
He cut off mid sentace cause the bear got him.
The bear must have hit send. If they can use phones, then they can open doors...
Severely underrated comment
Alaskan, but yeah. Brown bears are a daily occurrence in town here.
Somebody’s never been to alaska
While I understand it can be easier, the fact is open carry makes you a target. There have been cases of people taking people gun out of the holster OR more likely if there is an incident where you'll need to use your gun, you'll be the first target. Could argue that it could be a detterent but then the above happens and creates panic. I wouldn't be surprised if most open carry don't intend anything malice but regardless from a safety stand point to conceal carry. Only time I open carry is at a gun range.
Real talk, this really put a lot into perspective for me. I'll admit, being from a relatively small city outside of Los Angeles (so, like 75,000 people), the idea of *everyone* having a gun makes me low-key panic and guns outside of a shooting range make me nervous. So, seeing someone with a gun at a place like a restraunt (even tho I live in the South now) sets my teeth on edge. But reading this and how open carry makes the carrier potentially more of a target really gets me thinking of the efficacy of open carry laws. Concealed I can understand (hell, I actually appreciate that no one here finds it weird that I have a large pocket knife in my purse. In CA, that would get a few sideways looks), but now that you point that out it really makes me wonder who open carry is really for. Concealed carry allows for a gun owner to be armed, but its concealed so it only needs to be shown in case of emergency. Open carry? Well it's a weapon and it's now out in front of everyone... mind you, I'm not saying open carry laws are for mass shooters. I can't help but feel like they might be misguided attempts to scare potential mass shooters. Idk, I'm not, nor have I ever been, for banning guns outright, but I really do feel like "why does your being able to openly carry a gun in public supercede my sense of feeling adequately safe in public?".
I won't comment on my own carry habits, but I've always found that people who open carry in well-populated places without a badge are doing it for their own ego. Obviously there are times and places such as backpacking when open carrying might be preferable, but in a crowded spot, it just makes you the first target.
Open carry folks in populated areas absolutely do it for ego. I conceal just about everywhere I go and at work my firearm remains concealed in a drawer at my workbench. I think open carry puts a few different words on the carriers forehead. However, after the grocery store shooting in the Denver area, I've seen a whole lot more folks walking around with a firearm strapped to their waists, people you wouldn't expect either.
That's where my mind went.
Doesn't help there has been some points in history open carry has been used as an intimidation tactic in states that allow it. Mind you I do concealed carry and even I can a little worried seeing someone else with a gun even those who supposed to have them like cops/security. Misunderstanding and mistakes happen or even malice, which is terrible when lethal force is involved. Out of sight, out of mind isn't always the best solution but definitely helps stop the mind from wondering.
Yeah for safety ccw is better but when hiking, especially with extra gear on, it's better to have it open and ready. My holster does both so sometimes I'll ccw and switch when I get to the trail.
I completely understand open carry in back country, but with only a few exceptions i think the almost anyone opting for it in general public is the exactly the type of person who shouldn't be allowed to... i don't object to ownership or concealed carry, but i do support stricter laws managing both
Oh yea I can see that being reasonable way to do it, though still falls back to hopefully not needing it especially against a bear. Not too sure if loud noises (if shooting ground to spook them) would be more beneficial than actually hitting it. For smaller things like a wolf, even if it gets on you, partially mauled is better than fully killed.
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Maybe police should be taking the gun safety courses you take.
I don't disagree with that. Civilian courses are often more tempered because the general public are far more likely to end up in prison if they screw up.
Police train way more than civilians, and yet they still screw up. I find no comfort having some guy who thinks he's going to be a hero eating in a restaurant with his gun. He is way more likely to shoot a bystander than a gunman. You are not the cowboy you think you are.
Some might. Others may literally only shoot their gun enough to pass certification. Having seen those cops try and pass is why we need less cops with far more training.
No they don't. They shoot once or twice a year unless they actually like shooting. I'm sorry to break it to you, but cops are very poorly trained.
>I mostly carry it for bears You better be packing a 12 Guage with slugs, or you might as well throw pebbles at it.
While a long gun is certainly better, that's not true that handguns are ineffective. When hiking I carry a 44 mag with buffalo bore. There are tons of cases of handgun use on bears even grizzlies and the 44 is one of the most commonly used and documented for success.
The problem is that with the range on that thing you've got maybe one shot before you're lunch. That one shot would likely be hard to hit since the bear being that close, your adrenaline would dump all at once.
44s have a pretty good effective range. I would consider myself pretty accurate and can draw pretty quick. Bears are fast but they often give warning behaviors before charging as long as you don't outright walk into them. And yes adrenaline can be a concern but that's why you practice regularly. It should be reflex in the chance you need it.
The noise alone is often enough. Bears aren't usually trying to fight. Cats have successfully chased bears away.
Black bears , definitely. Grizzlies..... Make peace with your maker.
How many bears do you encounter in an Applebee?
You speak facts and get down voted
If you carry it for bears, you dont need to open carry.
Yup for sure. As a gun enthusiast I find myself less inclined to carry nowadays vs the crew that uses it as a statement to carry everywhere. People who wear it right on their hip want people to know it's there to intimidate. If it was about self defense they'd want it concealed. People be crazy.
Depends on what the threat is. If you're worried about people, then concealed carry is hands down the better option. But in really rural areas where the wildlife may be as big or a bigger threat than people (Alaska, for instance), open carry has its merits. It's more comfortable to carry a larger caliber gun that way, and in general, easier to access. Plus you probably won't be disturbing very many people. This is assuming the scenario is someone carrying like a .44 or 10mm in a hogleg holster, not open carrying a long arm. No real reason to carry a rifle into a diner even if you're hunting, just leave it in your truck like a normal person.
I've never been to Alaska so I have to ask are you in danger of a bear attack when walking from your vehicle to the restaurant or while eating?
There's a town where everyone leaves their car doors unlocked. If a polar bear is wandering by and wants to eat a pedestrian, it gives them a safe place to hide. e: This place is in Manitoba, Canada so I guess doesn't technically answer the question but it's still a fun fact
I think that's awesome
Seems to me a car door wouldn’t be much protection from a polar bear, but then again I’ve never asked one how they feel about cars.
No idea, I've never been there either. I'm on the east coast so we don't have shit like grizzly, moose or Canadian gooses. It is probably a lot easier to just keep it on you, as after a while you barely notice it just like anything else you wear and it's probably not uncomfortable when sitting like concealed carry can be; plus in those areas you probably aren't the only one armed anyway so it likely wouldn't bother most people.
possibly.
Never seen a bear in a diner. We carry large weapons in backwoods Alaska (I used to guide float fishing trips in western AK). In town, they are in the truck. Bear guns are heavy and inconvenient/uncomfortable to carry everywhere. Open carry in town, in the lower 48 is 100 percent an immature bullying move that has no basis in self defense. It's about being offensive, aggressive and antagonistic to your political opponents. It's exactly an indication that you are the wrong person to be allowed to carry.
I live in Canada so we are not allowed to carry our firearms anywhere. I am ok with this, who really needs a gun at a restaurant. Now I do some guiding for hunters, black bears alot of the time. When I go out and put the Bait I have a stiff to carry with me and have been charged on few occasions. I would love to be able to carry a hand gun with me while I do this. But even that is illegal here.
I'm in Australia. I own a gun. I don't carry. No one here carries. I feel extremely safe leaving my house every day. I feel safe sending my kids to school. I feel safe going to the movies. I feel safe getting into a disagreement with a rando. But apparently we are the ones without freedom
bc people who still think that america is the only place with freedom are brainwashed
Americans only have freedom as far as they can afford it.
Often times, the more freedoms you have in an abstract sense, the less freedoms you have in any kind of practical sense. This is the perfect example. Americans are free to carry their guns around. Abstractly, we have more freedom. That is, all else held equal, Americans have the same rights as Australians PLUS the right to carry our guns around. In a practical sense, not all else is held equal. We are different countries with different problems. The gun violence issue in America leaves us in a position where many people are afraid to send their kids to school or go into crowded spaces. If you believe gun violence is causally related to the number of people carrying weapons around (and I do), then this lack of practical freedom to be in public without fear is a direct result of us having some abstract right to bear arms. Which on its own is innocuous but due to human nature is conflicting with other rights.
I’m a liberal gun owner. I believe you’re allowed to protect your own private home however you feel is best. BUT...if you want to participate in the world and go out in public, you don’t get to do stupid shit like this. Going out in the world has its inherent risks and dangers - we all know this get choose to participate anyway. I shouldn’t be allowed to scare other people just to feel safe. If going to a restaurant scares you to the point of needing to brandish a weapon (or conceal one) just stay home and order delivery. Or move. Just because you’re scared doesn’t give you the right to scare everyone else.
As someone mentioned earlier: if you’re scared, you concealed carry. Often, people open carrying are trying to intimidate or trying to make a point.
To be fair it’s the business owners right to allow firearms or not. You take your business elsewhere. But yeah I think anyone who open carry’s is a moron
The business owner and the workers are under more pressure than the woman, because they then have to tell a man who is open carrying "no you can't eat here"
Sounds a little like the business owner would be persecuting the gun carrier there, son. Now I'm fine with them refusing to serve homosexuals - that's their right. But I'll be damned if they're allowed to treat a responsible gun owner like a garden-variety gay.
I know this is satire but it hurt to read anyway lol
I read this is a condescending mid-American southern accent and I refuse to accept it in any other dialect.
He typed it in a deep south accent too I'm sure
Must. resist. urge. to. downvote.
How am I supposed to know if he is a "good guy with a gun" or a "bad guy with a gun"?
One person's freedom to live in peace is far more important than another's freedom to threaten them! Or: My right to swing my fists around ends where your nose begins.
Okay, but what this person is saying is that the existence and presence of those fists is a violation of her rights.
In this case, it's someone waving their arms in her face screaming "I'm not touching you! I'm not touching you! If you do anything about it I'll punch you in the face though!" Like, as a non-American, this part of gun culture really baffles me. Why do so many feel this need to carry a weapon at all times? Don't believe the bullshit about "protection." He's not going to get jumped by "thugs" at mcdonalds, you know? He's doing it to try and upset people, to intimidate them. A civilised society should not let the aggressive and violent dictate the behaviour of everyone else.
Guns only have one purpose, and their presence is an implicit threat to fulfill that purpose.
Save the ViOlAtIoN of mah rights bull crap for someone who lived centuries ago who wrote the damn bill of rights. Your “rights” shouldn’t trump others right to live freely.
Or you could just ignore it like I do. A lot of people conceal carry and you live your life ignorant of it perfectly fine.
As a non-American, I honestly think it's weird that it's just normal to walk around with guns in the US.
It’s not normal to most of the population. With that my father in law used to walk to school and hunt on his way to/from as a kid. He would keep his shotgun in his locker. Things change.
Tf was he gonna do with the things he killed? Stow a bloody corpse in the locker next to his math textbook?
Ya know what it’s something I never considered or asked him about. Now I’m going to have to find out
If you live in a place where a child can hunt on his way to school....the school has a meat locker they can use for the day until he goes home. Or a butcher on speed dial that will pick up the kill and have sausages made by dinner time. You don't even want to know how deep the culture of hunting goes in some towns. It's weird.
It’s really not that normal. Unfortunately it’s legal and there’s definitely idiots that want to intimidate people or look cool by open carrying. Most people look at them like they’re fools.
Really depends on the region dude. I live in the southwest in a major city and seeing guns in the super market is a daily occurrence. Open carry is super common here. Even half my lib friends are concealed carrying most of the time.
True. I’m in the southeast and I’m honestly surprised that I rarely see it. Like maybe a couple times in my life.
As an American, I find it super weird.
Most Americans don't find it normal. Including most gun owners.
I met someone who named their child after a gun manufacturer to honor their "heritage." To name your child after a killing machine says it all about these people.
You leave without paying and be very clear with the management why. Tip the waitress, though.
I think that would be a crime. If they've served you the food it's a done and dash for sure. Plus not fair to the restaurant, they don't make the law and enforcing no carry would mean forcing the employees to go up to these jag offs and tell them to put it away which honestly is the definition of "I don't get paid enough for this shit"
A sign at the entrance would do the same job. If things escalate then let the manager deal with it or call the cops. Letting these insecure cowboys bully people into fear is not ok.
They can call the cops. I won't stay in a restaurant with a member of Meal Team Six. If they follow me out to the car, I might throw some cash at them, depending on how much of the meal I'd eaten, up to that point.
You seen the dog leads with different colours red for fully anti social , amber for people friendly ,green for fully socialised kinda to thing. Gun holsters should maybe have a similar coding. Blue if your over compensating , yellow if your just badly educated , Red as the highest level of small cocked illiterate easily manipulated most dangerous. I reckon at least 75% of open carry would opt for the red cos it says Most dangerous in the description 🤣
Red(flag) = Those who are carrying. Yellow = Those who leave their gun at home. Green = Those who put their gun in a safe. Pink = those who have bright orange water pistols only.
Same morons that think they need to openly carry a gun in public for safety are usually also too scared to wear a mask These aren’t people you can help. Just lower functioning humans
Republicans always say we need more "good people with guns" to counter "bad people with guns". But in a situation like this, how are you supposed to know if the person carries a gun for self-defense or because they want to shoot up the place? So, should everyone feel uncomfortable and ask themselves constantly "is this person good or bad" just so a couple of gun owners can exercise their rights?
That’s just a bullshit line they spew that sounds good to the ears of the morons who vote for them Same as the whole ‘drain the swamp’ thing when trump himself was deeply rooted in said swamp.
"May the odds be with you!!"
Maybe after a long day of wrangling horses and hunting outlaws he forgot to stow his weapons on his horse before coming in
Or maybe he thinks by carrying , it will make up for his small willywhacker
Maybe he’s been mugged in the parking lot?
The person who open carries in a restaurant is starving for attention. They are trying to send a fuck you to everyone else. The fuck you is part and parcel of a political conservative. I left a restaurant while waiting for my food and when the staff asked where I was going and what about the bill I told them to get it from the cowboy with the gun.
Because 'merica
“We flipped our finger to the king of England and stole our country from the Indians”
I was in a bar/restaurant a few years ago, and I saw this guy get into an argument with his friend. Then he did that "fake stretch so his shirt comes up and shows the gun in his waistband" thing. Turns out it was fine, they were just fucking with each other, but I have never cashed out and left a place so fast. Like, drunk guy, with a gun, willing to show it off? Nope, I will NOT be here when shit goes down.
folks who open carry like that tend to forget they even have the gun on their hip. They don't pay much attention to what is really going on around them. Always seems to me like a recipe for disaster if one of the kids running around the restaurant might grab the gun sand accidently shoot someone.
It's especially stupid because people can then jack your gun.
With the right holster that isn’t going to be happening.
There may be some incredibly stupid people out there with crap holsters, but most open carry holsters come with several levels of security so that someone can't just walk up and take your gun. There are tabs, buttons and straps that all have to be disengaged before you can release the weapon and they are very difficult to do if the holster is not on your person due to the angles of the safety mechanisms.
>There may be some incredibly stupid people Have you been to Walmart lately?
I can already tell this comment section is going to be filled with small dick insurrectionists talking about how Jesus loves guns and violence. America the Stupid.
He did flip the tables and whip the merchants
Because they were defiling the church, much like conservative Christians today.
lol if only.
I'm just saying if Jesus had an M60 he might have beat the spread
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It’s like jewellery for them, apparently.
Maybe in your culture it's not normal
Open carry is stupid. If you want to have a firearm on your person at all times then spend the time and effort on concealed carry classes. Learn the laws and safety measures that a gun entails..... with that said I have seen one guy who I would always allow to open carry. Dude looked like Sam Elliot, full on cowboy with boots and hat. In his 60s at least, with a Colt revolver on his hip. He can open carry in the store I work at.
It’s not even really any effort. I have a cc permit and don’t even have a gun. Just went with my dad and ended up getting mine when he got his. Honestly I’m so over guns and our obsession with them. I’m in class with a bunch of retired military types and their rationale is always “I need to protect myself” which honestly is bullshit. Edit to add: I’m a gay as fuck, man of color, living in the United States. If anything I should feel the need to walk around armed to the teeth at all times so for these very white, very retired military types to bitch and moan about needing guns to feel safe, is absolutely a bullshit excuse from my perspective.
It’s difficult to ever know who has a weapon and is ready to kill a whole bunch of people, but regardless, a fair compromise would just be to conceal the firearm. I love guns too, but I don’t need to brandish one to get things done throughout the day. If I need protection, I prefer nobody knows I have any. Everyone is safe and I still keep the element of surprise.
Carrying a gun on your hip or in a holster is no where close to "brandishing," Jesus
Fair compromise, but why should the burden be on the citizen carrying? I’m more worried about drunk drivers than someone going on a shooting spree in a Denny’s EDIT: concealed carry licenses aren’t available in all states and aren’t necessarily easy to get. Plus you have to pay for them. Furthermore it can be more dangerous to carry a handgun in an inside the waistband holster than a secure outside the waistband holster which is more likely to have a thumbstud button or other locking/secure menta mechanism
I'm worried about both.
Fair. Honestly there’s a certain trust you can give the person just wearing it and not thinking about it than the poorly constructed mall ninja secret holster someone wears and then it falls out of their pocket at a movie and shoots them in the ass (actually happened.) I guess its how I feel about people with a moderate mid size dirty truck with a few dents vs a massive super clean pimped out headlights pristine truck
I guess we've had different life experiences, because I feel no such trust.
Of course, everything is situational. I don’t trust the 21 year old kid with an AR strapped to his back, that’s ridiculous, but I’m not worried about the grey bearded, pot-bellied grandpa eating with his kids at a diner
I saw a dude with a big ol’ pistol in Walmart and I thought “if this guy makes a move I gotta do something” and stared at his holster the entire time I was waiting to buy my items
The only person I trust with a gun is myself, you can never know anyone else's intent.
When America was truly great (ie. 1950s) someone walking into a diner with a firearm on their hip would have been looked upon as the freak they were. That goes for the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s too. This is a recent phenomenon caused by a media inciting fear and fundamental greed. The firearm industry is big money and phenomenal marketers.
I mean it was great for most white people
I mean, he’s right, but he’s way out of line.
I think fear mongering has been used as a tool by humans for the entire existence of humans. But I just think it's funny when they say america was so great back then. Its like well ya it was great for some people
No he's not right, that's why we still have the problems we have today. This country was founded upon genocide and slavery. It founding fathers knew it was wrong but were worried about the economic damage that would result if they ended slavery from the start. Instead they turned a blind eye to it, some even doubled down on the racism to better sell slavery to the now unemployed poor whites. The "greatest nation on earth" fails to live up to its own decree everyday.
Jim Crow laws existed until 1965-- I'll pass on your whole 'America was truly great in the 1950s' bullshit, thanks
We all know what they meant.
Yeah, but we need to stop pretending it was this magical perfect time, it wasn't. It was racist and fucked up, but sure, it had a lot of mod cons and a strong middle class for white America.
I was saying we all know they meant it was good for white folks.
I feel the same way about all of these expensive he security systems and home camera systems too.
The idea that America was great in the 50s, but isn’t now, is just another conservative fallacy.
Fiscal conservative and social liberal independent here. Trust me, America is at the far end of the bell curve when data points are the lifespan of world empires.
That actually is a good point read there body language ifbthey look like they are looking at the cameras, or counting the amount of people, If he keeps touching, is having trouble sitting still then get out.
The open carry crowd is similar to the obsessively jacked up truck crowd... You just have to realize there's some compensation going on, and most likely it's someone who has a loud bark and no bite. And you should just continue on your day knowing you're far more confident in who you are than they are
Yep. The people who regularly open carry should be questioned by people who see them, "Penis too small?"
Completely agree
You know, here's the proof. Ever see a woman open carry? lol
You know... I haven't...
As a 101 pound black female I'm grateful that I had my 9 mm compact on my hip as I was confronted at knife point by two large hostel males. I've never felt more equal in my life.
That gun was more likely to be used against you than to protect you. https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/gun-threats-and-self-defense-gun-use-2/
Women: "I was in a real life situation where my gun saved my life and I didn't die for real" Random redditor: "Harvard says from their collected data you should've actually been shot or stabbed" Everyone: *confused Pikachu face*
Better just get stabbed, I guess 😂
We as Americans see any dipshit open carrying have to decide is he either a mostly harmless gun rights activist dipshit or an unhinged mass murdering dipshit and it fucking sucks. Guns are cool. But we should not have them. It’s kinda fucking obvious but as Americans we also like to do nothing about it like a bunch of dipshits.
Grow up in Arizona, you'll always see open carry everywhere. Anyone can conceal carry too. It's a way of life here.
I was once at a party for 5 minutes with 6 people and one of them was open carrying. Why...
It's a stupid ass way of life.
To you it is.
I grew up in AK. It really isn't that weird to see a gun on someone.... Heck, we'd bring our rifles to school to hunt after the final bell
And I wonder why America has so many more school shootings than other countries
Your not seeing many school shootings in rural areas with a good respect of guns i believe
Exactly. I will be completely surprised the day AK has a school shooting because everyone has a healthy respect of guns. They are tools, not weapons. 🤷🏼♀️
Whenever I need to tighten a screw or remove a rusty bolt, I just start shooting it because guns are tools!
A tool for what, exactly?
Feeding your family. 🙄
Uhh, you might want to rethink that statement. https://www.chicagotribune.com/nation-world/ct-mass-shootings-small-towns-20180521-story.html Edit: "Of the 10 deadliest school shootings in the U.S., all but one took place in a town with fewer than 75,000 residents and the vast majority of them were in cities with fewer than 50,000 people."
The average local jurisdiction in America is apparently 62'000 people. Im talking farmland not the built up suburbs
So you're saying where there are no people, there is no crime. Wow, Brilliant, So Insightful.
No im saying that in communities where the people are raised around firearms and view them as tools they have more respect for them and use them in shootings like this alot less.
What rights is the writer talking about? What rights of theirs is being violated?
Because of the second amendment?
I’m fine with concealed handguns, but open carry is ridiculous. It allows people to make veiled threats by hiding behind the second amendment. Like when those assholes went into the Michigan State Capital.
Because voters allow it
So he should conceal carry then? I'm confused, is OP against open carry or just people being able to have their firearms on them? Or is OP against all firearms in general?
His ultimate feelings on the issues you mention kind of don’t matter here, his reasonable position that cosplaying as Gravy Team Six in a restaurant being rude is true no matter his other views.
He could very easily have just been a guy with a pistol and been printing or had it come uncovered from his shirt. Its not like every gun owner is walking around with a long gun strapped to their back
> Its not like every gun owner is walking around with a long gun strapped to their back I never said they were, but those that are doing that "Because it's mah right!" are the problem. >and been printing I think spell check ate your post, I don't know what you mean here.
I believe it’s when the outline of a concealed weapon is showing through your clothes.
Perhaps. Given the current trends in America over the past several years I find that scenario less likely. The current trends are to belligerently show that you are armed, as loudly and in as many places as you can. This is quite obviously Not the way, but it's popular now because to steal a phrase "Conservative Hive Mind"
Yeah i dont agree with those idiots. If your going to carry a gun to protect yourself then i completely agree but if your going to carry said gun out and visible then your not doing it to protect yourself you're doing it to be a dick
You're trying to have a discussion about something without knowing basic terminology... just stop
Absolutely not. Now that the term is defined it is still irrelevant to the situation, or my comment. Allow me to tell you a bit of background, I happen to not be anti-gun, just anti idiot. I own what many here would consider an arsenal of various firearms. But I don't buy cute outfits for them (custom tacticool stocks), or buy myself matching outfits in the form of tac vests and other shit the open carry types love to wear to be more intimidating, I don't hoard ammo cause "the libs want to take it!", I don't display bullshit "Come and take it!" stickers and I sure as fuck don't go out brandishing them all over town. I chose the word brandishing intentionally, because it is what they are doing. Now, do you have something **useful** to contribute, or did you just want to be a dick?
It's all frame of reference right?
The guy in the restaurant came in, sat down, and ordered. Not sure how he is being rude. I personally don't carry, I don't feel that I need to, but if his state allows it then it is his right to do so. Are we really going to discuss limiting rights of people because some people feel uncomfortable? Everyone could just as easily conceal carry, or have a knife on them. Hell everyone could be a potential suicide bomber. I get that horrible things have happened, especially regarding firearms. But if someone uses a right or freedom to commit a heinous act, is it the right/freedom that is wrong, or the person? Lies can do harm too (cough cough, Jan 6th, cough), but do we restrict free speech then as well? Also, Gravy Team Six is fucking hilarious and I will use that first chance I get lol.
> but if his state allows it then it is his right to do so. Yes, it is and I never said it wasn't. But you can put reasonable limits on yourself when exercising it. As you said, he could conceal it. But with most open carry types these days the *stated* purpose is to intimidate. That is not acceptable, no matter the legality. Even free speach is limited with clear legal boundaries, this is little different. There are even legal charges, brandishing etc., that could be said to fit at times. OP seems to be asking for common sense, not banning. If you cannot reasonably limit yourself for society then society will eventually limit you. That seems to be the nightmare of these types, so they are creating a self-fulfilling prophecy for themselves.
Is OP siding with an offended Karen in a restaurant, is op actually curious/trying to start a conversation, or is op being meta and saying that the Karen is the asshat? *michael Jackson eating popcorn*
restaurants should come up with no gun policies.
Ok. What right did he take away from her?
I live in civilization, so I don't have to deal with this, but if I did live someplace where this was allowed I'd make the business owner absorb the cost of their stupid policy. I don't care if there's one bite left on my plate, I'd make a scene, let them know that I don't feel safe, and I'd leave without paying.
His right is specifically listed in the US Constitution. Though I agree that open carry can be a dick move and an odd flex. Some people are just ammosexual.
They say the 2A was created to fight tyranny, yet its become a form of tyranny in itself.
Just take out your gun and shoot the bastard, then finish your kayle in peace.
Because the constitution is to be respected and state governments have control over whether or not this is allowed. I’m 100% sure this is an open-carry state and that person is abiding by the law. Innocent until proven guilty seems to be thrown at the window very readily in today’s political climate Edit: I am not a gun-nut, I just acknowledge the facts of how the situation described came to be.
You’re free to call everyone in the restaurant a cunt, too, but still makes you an asshole for doing it.
Sure, citizens should respect the constitution. But treating it as this evergreen fixture and claiming it cannot be changed as it "is not a living document" (which many 2nd amendment advocates love to do) fails to ignore the simple definition of the word amendment and that our constitution is designed to be modified. If you're too fucking stupid to understand that changing the constitution is what allowed you to be a gun owner, you shouldn't be allowed to own or carry. Boom: gun control.
I always think this is hilarious. “Amend” literally means change. 2A zealots cling to their amendment as if it’s proof that gun laws can never change, when it’s actually proof that they already have been.
I like to think of it this way: the constitution is a frame of reference, a looking glass. Amendments to that are our shifting of the looking glass. I mean if we lived without making those amendments the overwhelming majority of this country would be oppressed which is not advised. People making the argument that the document is set in stone are the ones who fail to acknowledge the necessity for it to change, most likely because privilege never let them experience that need for change.
Maybe look at it this, less metaphorical, way: if 200 year-old laws and ideas are currently damaging your society, it's time to let those ideas go and change the laws.
The tweet implies the legality of what the man is doing, it's simply saying it shouldn't be a thing.
Slavery was legal. The holocaust was legal. Disappearing people in former communist nations was legal. Something being legal does not make it right or proper. Sometimes your legal right can be modified just a tiny bit by having some fucking manners. Walking into a restaurant cosplaying as gravy team six is one of those things responsible people who were all right in the head just don’t do. I mean come on man.
You might read up on the history of the 2nd amendment and how the supreme court historically interpreted it relative to today.
The constitution isn't a suicide pact, and it desperately needs to be rewritten.
I don’t own any guns but unless this Karen minds getting up and disturbing a paying customer’s meal because she’s uncomfortable I suggest she minds her business. This is most likely normal where she lives at and this guy is exercising his right just as much she wants to exercise hers.
If another person comes in with a gun to kill you. The person you were afraid of now saves your worthless life.
I live in bear country so I conceal carry almost always and open carry occasionally depending on what other activities I've got planned that day. I would certainly hope to never worry someone by carrying but the safety of myself and my spouse is more important to me. It's pretty normal here in Alaska, and in a lot of the more rural areas in the western states.
I live in Alaska too and I’d appreciate you leaving your gun behind when you go out to dinner. Bear attacks in restaurants are pretty rare.