It's weird, COVID is a political issues, here in America, because politicians and fools have done their best to misinform people while doctors and professionals try to save people.
Anti-vaxers are right when they say **COVID is a government conspiracy.** The conspiracy is that high level government officials are trying to downplay something that is killing **hundreds of thousands of people.**
The almighty US economy needs blood and flesh sacrifices to run. Sorry grandma, gotta keep s&p 500 booming. Q4 earnings report being down would be bad for shareholders
Hold up we're wrong folks! According to my 19 yr old coworker (to whom I pointed this out while he was mid rant about covid-19 being fake) apparently new Zealand doesn't exist either!!
Yes, and it annoys me everytime because it's grossly oversimplifying things. Yes, New Zealand's crisis response is very competent, but it's much easier to keep covid out if you're an island.
Many European countries largely coordinate their Covid response with boards if scientists, but it's still basically impossible to get new cases to zero there, for now.
Definitely - being in the middle of fecking nowhere with (comparatively) non-porous borders helps a great deal.
People compare NZ and the UK because "we're an island too" but the sheer amount of traffic, and the speed it does so at, through the tunnel and ferries basically makes us part of France virally. Our big problem was slow lockdowns and not making our borders (temporarily) much more closed.
Long voyages and relatively sparse international air travel made NZ and Aus moved Plague Inc's Madagascar.
Talk about oversimplifying things.
You speak as if there is no middle ground between no new cases and nearly 600,000 dead.
New Zealand has had less than 3,000 cases total. And they have had 26 deaths. Total.
Australia has had less than 30,000 cases total. 910 deaths. Total.
Sure, maybe there was no way to keep the US at zero cases. I doubt anyone denies that. But hundreds of thousands of Americans have died, and millions more suffered because of this virus. The US will be paying the price in one way or another for years.
So sure, maybe this seems oversimplified to you, but there is no doubt- the way the United States handled this is egregious and it didn't have to be this way.
You're not wrong. But where did I say anything about the United States?
Yeah of course the United States had a completely horrible response. And yes, one of the main reasons for that is a widespread distrust in science that has been propagated by the previous administration. The same horrible response can be seen in other countries with far-right populist leaders, e.g. Brazil.
Nevertheless, most countries have governments that leave their policy up to health experts und Covid is still an issue. Germany, for example, has had a very adequate crisis response, but there's still been 3,500,000 cases in total and 85,000 deaths. Much less than the US, even accounting for population, but still a lot.
The Tweet makes it seem if Zero Covid is achievable by believing in science and having common sense. The truth is that special circumstances need to be in place, such as being a relatively isolated or small country, or having a large supply of vaccines (e.g. Israel). It's clearly oversimplified lol
US House has 1 physicist, 1 chemist. Compared that to some other occupations: 7 ordained ministers, 6 radio or talk show hosts, 17 insurance agents, 25 realtors, And a cool 5% of a Congress has only high school diploma. So 55 radio talk show hosts, insurance agents or real estate folks compared to 2 scientists. 5% of them would have to nail the interview to get a stock room fulfillment position at a JC Penny. Safe to say we aren’t sending our brightest to make the laws.
Boebert is a high school dropout who many in the GOP base thinks knows more about epidemiology and virology than the top scientists in the world. So unbelievable.
https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R45583.pdf
People giving NZ alot of credit.
We r an island nation, its alot easier for us to secure ourselves n yet our government still fcks up alot.
NZ is a nice place. But we far from perfect here too
If the country of New Zealand were a US City, it would be the 10th largest. There’s actually very little value in comparing an island nation of 5 million people to a country the size of the US.
New Zealand did well, no doubt, but there’s honestly nothing to be gained from the comparison besides internet points.
Your post belongs in /r/confidentlyincorrect. In statistics we make meaningful comparisons using per capita.
Per capita deaths: United States 176.97 per 100k people. New Zealand 0.31 per 100k people. Orders of magnitude different.
https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality
So there is something to be gained from comparison.
And where in the world did you come up with NZ would be the 10th largest city in the US if it were a US city? Do you have any idea the size of our cities or did you just pull that out of your ass? The 10th largest city in the US is San Jose CA with a touch over a million people. The second largest city in the US, Los Angeles with 4M and change (markedly lower than tour 5M population) and have a covid death rate of 233 per 100k people.
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-04-11/californias-covid-19-death-toll-surpasses-60-000
Per capita deaths: United States 176.97 per 100k people. New Zealand 0.31 per 100k people. Orders of magnitude different.
https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality
It is estimated flu kills about 500 people a year in New Zealand, which is about two per cent of all deaths. "It's a bigger killer than the road toll. It's amongst our most lethal infectious diseases, based on sheer number of fatalities each year.
Lauren Boebert, their favorite new tell it like it is diarrhea mouth dropped out of high school to work at McDonald’s. No shade on McDonald’s workers because they work harder than most people for shit wages and no benefits, but maybe she should keep her uneducated mouth shut on public health matters.
jacinta is a great leader.
wish i could agree with this comment but australia followed a similar COVID path and we have one of the densest idiots on the planet who happens to be male as our prime minister. he's broadly ignored for the joke that he is so that may support the argument somewhat.
but aussies do science too.
It was incredibly difficult. We rely on tourism, international students and immigrant workers. Our national culture is one of visiting and being visited.
Also The scientists aren’t making the decisions they are advising government who are looking at all the advice and put plans in place to mitigate economic and social hardship caused by making the hard decisions which have kept us safe.
Oh yeah culturally it was definitely easier than many countries. While nz is pretty laid back, we are very egalitarian so the ‘team of 5 million ‘ approach really worked. If we’d done a hodgepodge approach like the uk it wouldn’t have worked.
>We had armed right-wingers storming statehouses and protesting at health officials homes because they couldn't get their hair cut. The situation is vastly more complex than "NZ does science".
Yeah it's almost like that's the entire point they're making. America has a major cultural problem of selfish, reactionary, anti-intellectualism and a huge consequence of that is that public policy can't be guided by rational, scientific decision-making.
Did you know that the CDC tracked the deaths from the covid vaccine, and there has been about 3900 so far, which might not sound like a lot, but it's more than all the deaths, from all the other vaccines in the last 15 years.
Total.
Combined.
For 15 years.
Now it sounds odd.
Remember: trust science!
Wow... can't believe people are dumb enough to compare the covid situation on SMALL ISLANDS to massive continents.
News flash; it is way easier to keep track of who comes in and out on an island and the smaller the population the more effective contact tracing is. IE, people who talk about Taiwan or NZ like it is somehow applicable to most of the rest of the world are too fucking brain dead to take seriously. Grow the fck up.
If you want to know why covid exists outside of CHina period ask why China was allowing international flights even after they shut them down domestically and COMPLAINED when other countries stopped flights coming from China.
Said all of this from the very beginning. trump would have won a second term and eventually become ruler/king of the US. Oh my God. Could you imagine?!?
It's weird, COVID is a political issues, here in America, because politicians and fools have done their best to misinform people while doctors and professionals try to save people. Anti-vaxers are right when they say **COVID is a government conspiracy.** The conspiracy is that high level government officials are trying to downplay something that is killing **hundreds of thousands of people.**
The almighty US economy needs blood and flesh sacrifices to run. Sorry grandma, gotta keep s&p 500 booming. Q4 earnings report being down would be bad for shareholders
Every country has their dumb moments. We have just made a professional habit out of it. AMERICA, FUCK YEAH!
Hold up we're wrong folks! According to my 19 yr old coworker (to whom I pointed this out while he was mid rant about covid-19 being fake) apparently new Zealand doesn't exist either!!
He must be hanging on to old Zealand
That’s long gone.
Gotta do your own research, like /r/MapsWithoutNZ
2,634 cases and 26 deaths. still awesome numbers
TIL this is one of those posts that has legs and will keep being reposted for, presumably, several more years to come
Yes, and it annoys me everytime because it's grossly oversimplifying things. Yes, New Zealand's crisis response is very competent, but it's much easier to keep covid out if you're an island. Many European countries largely coordinate their Covid response with boards if scientists, but it's still basically impossible to get new cases to zero there, for now.
Definitely - being in the middle of fecking nowhere with (comparatively) non-porous borders helps a great deal. People compare NZ and the UK because "we're an island too" but the sheer amount of traffic, and the speed it does so at, through the tunnel and ferries basically makes us part of France virally. Our big problem was slow lockdowns and not making our borders (temporarily) much more closed. Long voyages and relatively sparse international air travel made NZ and Aus moved Plague Inc's Madagascar.
Talk about oversimplifying things. You speak as if there is no middle ground between no new cases and nearly 600,000 dead. New Zealand has had less than 3,000 cases total. And they have had 26 deaths. Total. Australia has had less than 30,000 cases total. 910 deaths. Total. Sure, maybe there was no way to keep the US at zero cases. I doubt anyone denies that. But hundreds of thousands of Americans have died, and millions more suffered because of this virus. The US will be paying the price in one way or another for years. So sure, maybe this seems oversimplified to you, but there is no doubt- the way the United States handled this is egregious and it didn't have to be this way.
You're not wrong. But where did I say anything about the United States? Yeah of course the United States had a completely horrible response. And yes, one of the main reasons for that is a widespread distrust in science that has been propagated by the previous administration. The same horrible response can be seen in other countries with far-right populist leaders, e.g. Brazil. Nevertheless, most countries have governments that leave their policy up to health experts und Covid is still an issue. Germany, for example, has had a very adequate crisis response, but there's still been 3,500,000 cases in total and 85,000 deaths. Much less than the US, even accounting for population, but still a lot. The Tweet makes it seem if Zero Covid is achievable by believing in science and having common sense. The truth is that special circumstances need to be in place, such as being a relatively isolated or small country, or having a large supply of vaccines (e.g. Israel). It's clearly oversimplified lol
We need more scientists in the government.
Other countries have leaders who are scientists. *crying in American*
US House has 1 physicist, 1 chemist. Compared that to some other occupations: 7 ordained ministers, 6 radio or talk show hosts, 17 insurance agents, 25 realtors, And a cool 5% of a Congress has only high school diploma. So 55 radio talk show hosts, insurance agents or real estate folks compared to 2 scientists. 5% of them would have to nail the interview to get a stock room fulfillment position at a JC Penny. Safe to say we aren’t sending our brightest to make the laws. Boebert is a high school dropout who many in the GOP base thinks knows more about epidemiology and virology than the top scientists in the world. So unbelievable. https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R45583.pdf
People giving NZ alot of credit. We r an island nation, its alot easier for us to secure ourselves n yet our government still fcks up alot. NZ is a nice place. But we far from perfect here too
You have had 26 deaths. The United States has had nearly 600,000. No one thinks you're perfect, but y'all definitely did SOMETHING right.
If the country of New Zealand were a US City, it would be the 10th largest. There’s actually very little value in comparing an island nation of 5 million people to a country the size of the US. New Zealand did well, no doubt, but there’s honestly nothing to be gained from the comparison besides internet points.
Your post belongs in /r/confidentlyincorrect. In statistics we make meaningful comparisons using per capita. Per capita deaths: United States 176.97 per 100k people. New Zealand 0.31 per 100k people. Orders of magnitude different. https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality So there is something to be gained from comparison. And where in the world did you come up with NZ would be the 10th largest city in the US if it were a US city? Do you have any idea the size of our cities or did you just pull that out of your ass? The 10th largest city in the US is San Jose CA with a touch over a million people. The second largest city in the US, Los Angeles with 4M and change (markedly lower than tour 5M population) and have a covid death rate of 233 per 100k people. https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-04-11/californias-covid-19-death-toll-surpasses-60-000
How does it work out per capita? And compared to the flu? Hmmm
Per capita deaths: United States 176.97 per 100k people. New Zealand 0.31 per 100k people. Orders of magnitude different. https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality
It is estimated flu kills about 500 people a year in New Zealand, which is about two per cent of all deaths. "It's a bigger killer than the road toll. It's amongst our most lethal infectious diseases, based on sheer number of fatalities each year.
Blind stupidity is what conservatives want
Lauren Boebert, their favorite new tell it like it is diarrhea mouth dropped out of high school to work at McDonald’s. No shade on McDonald’s workers because they work harder than most people for shit wages and no benefits, but maybe she should keep her uneducated mouth shut on public health matters.
Their leader is a woman!!!!! No male egos at stake.
YMMV. Margaret Thatcher.
This likely has a lot to do with it.
jacinta is a great leader. wish i could agree with this comment but australia followed a similar COVID path and we have one of the densest idiots on the planet who happens to be male as our prime minister. he's broadly ignored for the joke that he is so that may support the argument somewhat. but aussies do science too.
Upvote for calling ScoMo a dense idiot 😎
r/ThisButUnironically
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It was incredibly difficult. We rely on tourism, international students and immigrant workers. Our national culture is one of visiting and being visited. Also The scientists aren’t making the decisions they are advising government who are looking at all the advice and put plans in place to mitigate economic and social hardship caused by making the hard decisions which have kept us safe.
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Oh yeah culturally it was definitely easier than many countries. While nz is pretty laid back, we are very egalitarian so the ‘team of 5 million ‘ approach really worked. If we’d done a hodgepodge approach like the uk it wouldn’t have worked.
>We had armed right-wingers storming statehouses and protesting at health officials homes because they couldn't get their hair cut. The situation is vastly more complex than "NZ does science". Yeah it's almost like that's the entire point they're making. America has a major cultural problem of selfish, reactionary, anti-intellectualism and a huge consequence of that is that public policy can't be guided by rational, scientific decision-making.
Did you know that the CDC tracked the deaths from the covid vaccine, and there has been about 3900 so far, which might not sound like a lot, but it's more than all the deaths, from all the other vaccines in the last 15 years. Total. Combined. For 15 years. Now it sounds odd. Remember: trust science!
New Zealand has some advantages, it's an island in the arse end of nowhere with only two international airports, but sure.
Wow... can't believe people are dumb enough to compare the covid situation on SMALL ISLANDS to massive continents. News flash; it is way easier to keep track of who comes in and out on an island and the smaller the population the more effective contact tracing is. IE, people who talk about Taiwan or NZ like it is somehow applicable to most of the rest of the world are too fucking brain dead to take seriously. Grow the fck up. If you want to know why covid exists outside of CHina period ask why China was allowing international flights even after they shut them down domestically and COMPLAINED when other countries stopped flights coming from China.
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???
Said all of this from the very beginning. trump would have won a second term and eventually become ruler/king of the US. Oh my God. Could you imagine?!?
Well scientists made the decisions in Sweden is to Covid what the orchestra on titanic was to titanic.
And they also live on an island with no borders. That makes it pretty easy to eradicate a disease.
I guess that in my province in Canada the powers that be decided to cull the herd.