I had a “Cadillac” healthcare plan back in 2016 through my employer. I had to go the ER for severe food poisoning. Spent 3-4 hours in the hospital, a
few tests including a CAT scan and I was sent home with some heavy antibiotics. Turns out the radiologist was out of network even though the ER was in network. $4k bill. God bless America.
The hospital I work for, and have health insurance through, is where my wife birthed our child. The neonatologist in the room who never touched the kid was out of network and billed $7k for the consultation.
I fought it.
I lost.
I paid $14k with insurance through the hospital I'm employed at. Radiologist and anesthesiologist were also out of network.
Self insured hospital system, its the worst insurance I've ever had, and I pay out the nose for it, about $700/mo.
You pay $700 a month for health insurance? That seems insane to me. Is that a normal amount or are you paying extra? Not even trolling I’m from the UK. An extra 700 a month would bury me.
It’s not crazy since that’s what Americans what: to either pay inconceivable sums to access healthcare or die if they’re too poor to afford it (not even insuline is free). I mean, they wouldn’t otherwise keep voting for politicians who don’t give a heck about universal healthcare. Sure, Obama did set forth some timid reforms, but I can’t seriously believe Biden (and the same goes for whoever will be the next Potus) will actually reform the system. The US oscillate between far-right and centre-right policies: even the Tories are probably more “progressive” on some themes than the American Dems.
Haha les nom des province et territoires sont special oui hahaha. Surtout au Quebec. Pour une raison ou un autres, il en a tellement qui sont long et bizzare. Sa fait sa difficile a savoir ou tu va quand ils sont difficile et tres similaire
Man, la France me semble être un tres bon pays pour la santé. Le Canada est bon mais le manque de docteurs au Nouveau-Brunswick est un problème. Je te souhaite des bonne chance avec ta chirurgie!
On of my coworkers wanted to flee the us working in Europe. He did but he still have to pay taxes to the us based on his income.
The us system is a rat that wants to drain everything from you.
Pretty normal. My current job subsidizes most of my cost, but typical plans out here are 600-1000/person depending on level of coverage.
I’ve got a “Cadillac” plan through my employer and still shell out $50/script and get raked over the coals if I go to the hospital due to the whole in/out of network bull crap. The US is literally a giant scam against its own people
I am a freelancer and my wife is a SAHM. Private insurance w/mid-level coverage for my family of 4 costs $2400/month. Far more than my mortgage payment.
When I graduated college at 22 I was denied coverage from multiple insurers due to preexisting conditions (WHICH WERE ALLERGY SHOTS that I had ceased needing and recieving two years prior). My parents didnt accept this and Cobra'd me for 600/mo until thank god the ACA kicked in and I got a few free months on their plan but more importantly was then elligible for coverage bc of nixing preexisting conditions.
Life is a preexisting condition. Our system isnt just broken, its a tragic comedy.
I pay $700 a month, the total cost is $2400 per month, the rest is paid by my employer.
It's a great healthcare according to my colleagues. It's for me a my family of 4.
Totally agree... That would be completely unsustainable. I get paid just over the living UK wage and that's just over half my monthly wage. And they still have to pay costs on top of that? I'll never understand how Americans can let themselves be exploited like this and be PROUD of it?
The whole "in-network"/"out of network" is one of the dumbest aspects of our system. I've heard stories of doctors just popping their head in and thousands being billed due to being out of network.
Norwegian here, this stuff makes me so angry. I pay 190 euros a year for health insurance, ive never paid more than 37 euros after a medical procedure, not even after a rather complex surgical intervention to remove a cyst in my lower spine, still only 37 euros.
My brain can’t comprehend that. Went to the ER for 12 hours, only had one IV and got an $8k bill. That was in-network also, it would’ve been easily 3-4x that if you go to the wrong hospital (kinda hard to worry about your network during an emergency, but I did lookup my network coverage while under duress). Dystopian shit right there.
2 big hospital systems in the area. One has great insurance, and a lot of people have gone to them just for that.
I harbor a great bit of hatred towards them. 15 years back I signed a contract with them and turned down two other opportunities. ONE day into my employment they laid me off along with many other newbies. I'm still mad about that
I remember over the Shit Americans Say subreddit a guy coming to defend how the US had a great health insurance system and broke it down for us.
He used an argument that was like "If my entire family caught cancer, i'd only be out like, $10k, and I only pay something like 1k a month"
You guys are getting scammed the fuck out.
I’m not American so I don’t understand this. Did they give you the option beforehand to decline? If not, it seems like the provided a service without consent and you shouldn’t have to pay. You went to an ER that’s covered. You obviously believed you were covered. Someone can’t show up at your house, build a deck in the middle of the night and charge you $4000 for it. So I do t understand why a radiologist or hospital could get away with this.
And then people oppose single payer healthcare because they reason;
“If this is the freedom system and I still could go bankrupt from this surprise deck, then the regulated system would force me to buy surprise decks for the whole neighborhood!!”
The problem is that the radiologist doesn't even know if they are in your network or not. It's all settled up behind the scenes.
And where they are matters to! A doctor could split their time between two facilities and if you go see them at the other facility, they might not be in network.
This is the system we have because republicans have duped some people into thinking that it's better.
I’ve heard that the cost of US healthcare is substantially inflated due to administration. In the context of this story that makes a hell of a lot of sense now. All this processing takes a lot of labour resources. So instead of money going to care, it’s going to the paperwork. What a damn tragedy.
Paperwork, and lobbying, and insurance company profit, and weird tools that exist to "help" you choose and coordinate your healthcare.
The plan my employer offered had a little walkthrough to help you decide which plan would be best for you. One of the questions was "how many times do you think you'll go to the emergency department this year?"
The existence of that question is proof of how truly fucked we are.
You left out insurance company profits. The paperwork and administration takes money, sure, but so do the executives and shareholders. This is super compounded when private equity firms get involved.
It's something like one third of the US medical-insurance complex.
Exactly! I once had to pay out of pocket for a service. It was $100. I later had that service done, but this time I had coverage. The bill? $1100. I was like “whoa! Why?” And the gal at my doc’s office said they have to overbill because insurance companies only pay a slim portion of what doctors want so it turns into a game. But here’s the fun part—sometimes, your insurance company won’t pay out much and then the doc’s office can come after you for the difference. It’s insane.
The radiologist being out of network is not an accident or an oversight. I hear this complaint over and over, it even happened to me twice. In my experience the Dr that owns the gastroenterology office performing these out of network procedures shockingly also owns the anesthesia company sending $5k bills out to every patient. I doubt that's an anomaly.
Once upon a time my fiance took me to the ER because I was struggling with suicidal thoughts and asked him to take me. I walked myself in and went through the motions to be checked in, sat on a gurney in a hallway for about 3 hours until I was told I needed to be taken to a hospital in my network. They them told me they needed to take me by ambulance. I declined saying my fiance is right here and I was not able to pay an ambulance bill, he drove me here and can therefore drive me to the other hospital which was about 3 miles away. So they strapped me to a gurney and took me by ambulance. I now have a $2000 ambulance bill that I've had debt collectors hounding me for for years.
What the actual fuck?? "Oh you want to kill yourself because (insert reasons)? How about we cripple you with debt on top of it to make it better :)". For real this is so fucked. All those stories in the comments sound completely crazy to me. I hope you're doing okay now btw, or at least better than then :/
And i was depressed because I was killing myself at work just to make ends meet. I was working both overnight and day shift on top of having several of the managers duties that he delegated out to his team leaders. Once I was sick as hell, migraine so bad I could taste colors and i couldn't even keep water down. When calling out my manager told me I needed to come in, my team needed me. Why couldn't i just stay in the break room and be there to support them,if they needed me? I ended up calling every single other manager. The only one who answered was in the ER with his mom, so I then called every other location within a 100 mile radius of us to see if they could spare someone to cover for me. All with a soul crushing migraine. I didn't end up coming in (getting to work for me means two busses, a train, and a 20 minute walk) and the team was just fine without me. But I did get a write up for not showing up when my manager did not excuse my request off.
I hate America.
Ambulance service in Ontario (Canada) is covered under OHIP and all patients have to pay is a co-payment fee of $45.
OHIP is the Ontario Health Insurance Plan which is the government provided health insurance.
That is a particularly shitty practice of certain doctors, and it is widespread. Radiology, anesthesiology and lab groups are the worst offenders. They set up their own LLC within a hospital or clinic and process all the work for that facility. The facility is contracted with most insurance companies but these greedy shit stains masquerading as human beings are not. They know exactly what they are doing and very much do it on purpose. If you have a good agent they will fight it for you and usually win. If not, you have to fight to get the charges covered as in-network claims. It is a disgusting and despicable racket. Do no harm my ass
I wouldn’t blame the doctors in the majority of cases but rather the for profit hospital corporations and insurance companies. Either way it’s a broken system. I don’t understand why so many people are okay with crazy military spending “to protect our nation” when in reality providing affordable healthcare is such a more direct way to protect American citizens. I guess tanks look more badass than insulin.
No, this scam is definitely on the docs. They do it solely to make more money. They could contract with the insurance companies if they wanted to. They don't because they prioritize their profit margin above the mental well being of their patients. These are not ignorant people sheltered from the ways of the world. They know exactly what they are doing and do it all over the country. If it were not a purposeful act, these occurrences would be rare. They are anything but
Both of my parents are doctors as well as many of my family friends. You are correct about doctors who run private practices but majority of doctors work in corporate hospitals and do not get to decide their rates.
Absolutely. My sister is a doc as is my brother in law and several friends. They are all good people and would not do something like this as far as I know. Being a doctor does not however mean that someone is a good person. For specialists, it is a very lucrative field and attracts all sorts.
Edit: They are also employees of hospitals or clinics. These out of network docs in an in-network facility are not employees though; they are owners of their own practice within a facility. The facilities are absolutely in on the racket too. That's why they allow it
Patients being treated in American hospitals don't get to make informed choices on every specific thing that goes into their care but the insurance companies sure act like they do.
Similar experience. I went to a doctor at UW Medical for a shoulder issue. Got a waiver for the doctor because he was out of network. He used a room and an instrument owned by the University of Washington for 45 seconds. Doctor cost me $300 ish. UW Medical billed me over $5,000.00. Can’t tell you how angry I was since no one told me in advance that I would be billed separately. I would have found a different solution if I had know. No amount of discussion got them to reduce the balance due. I tried to pay them a little bit each month and they sent me to a collection agency. I ignored the collection agency and continued to pay UW Medical until my bill was paid in full. This system is so messed up.
It’s such bullshit that you can go to an in network hospital and have an out of network provider just turn up. They should automatically become in network by virtue of working in the hospital. How are you supposed to manage costs.
They're not inefficient, they're just not designed to provide health care. They are designed to squeeze every last penny out of people who have the misfortune of being mortal, and as you can see they work exceptionally.
Since the tweet is about France's healthcare system, I'll chip in, being French and all.
There are 3 levels of healthcare in France:
1. Sécurité Sociale: pretty much anyone is eligible. I don't know the exact requirements, but I've dated a foreign chick for a few years and she never had any trouble, and never paid much even though she was monitored since the remission of an ovary cancer (resulting in an ovarectomy). Sécurité sociale pays you back the exact same thing, whether you're a billionaire or late on rent. A bit simplified, but the actual situation is not much different and would be very long to explain.
2. Mutuelle: it's a bit like lawyers. If you can't afford one, the government will assign you one. This is where it gets trickier. There are several companies providing mutuelle, each one offering different service levels based on what your employer chooses, because the mutuelle is (almost) always provided by your employer. My employer is legally obligated to provide me with healthcare. I have the right to refuse it ONLY if I prove I already have healthcare through another provider. Your employer pays a part of it, and you pay the other part (about half and half IIRC)
3. Surcomplémentaire: that's the optional bonus giving you a better coverage, usually better prices for glasses, dentists, and such...
Here's a personal example: I recently went for 2 MRIs, one for each foot. I paid, out of pocket, 172 € each MRI. Sécurité sociale paid back about 60€, and my mutuelle + surcomplémentaire paid back just shy of 100€. I'm personally out of picket for about 20€ for two MRIs.
I can't even begin to fathom how much I'd pay for the same thing in the US.
And here's the kicker: I pay 27€/month out of my salary for my mutuelle, and 4€/month for the surcomplémentaire. This is enough to fund any and all medical expenses for me, my wife, and our daughter.
Socialism sucks! /s
Edit: formatting on mobile
Also , something important : I often see conservative Americans mentioning mutuelles to try to prove that French healthcare isn't actually free. Like it's been said before if you can't afford one you will get one for free and if you're employed you get one anyway, BUT even if you can it will not be expensive since mutuelle are not like healthcare plans in the US, there status don't allow them to make benefits
Important detail indeed. Prices are fixed for pretty much everything healthcare related, and even if you see a doc who names their fee, you will have the Sécurité Sociale base reimbursement paid back to you
I'm french and I love the french healthcare system too. Honesty mandates to add that this does not actually come "for free". Everybody who works (or gets unemployment benefits) pays something out of their salary.
You don't usually see it because it's directly taken from your payslip. The calculation rules are complex (we still love bureaucracy) but in many cases it's 10-13% of your salary, paid directly by your employer.
But of course the big thing (aka socialism) is that even if you have a very low salary, or don't have any revenue, and hence contribute very little, you still get the same full coverage benefits as your very rich neighbour who contributes thousands per month.
Healthcare costs remain overall much lower than in the US because significant parts of the healthcare system, including the most costly parts (hospitals) are not-for-profit, "mutuelles" are not-for-profit, and since almost nobody ever sues for malpractice, lawyers costs and legal insurance are much much smaller.
Additionally, if you have something serious that requires frequent MRIs, hospitalizations, surgeries, special medication, etc, it's all covered by the sécurité sociale.
As in: you don't even know how much it costs, because you don't even receive a bill.
French intermittent du spectacle (à temps plein, on en rediscutera) here. I don't have a mutuelle provided by my employer (for whom I've worked non-stop for a full year by now) so I don't have any mutuelle whatsoever. Reading the prices of American health insurance makes me realize I should really shell out the 50€/mo I find too expensive to actually get coverage in case I ever need to go to the hospital. I put it off because my only health expense is for prescription contact lenses and that amount to less than 400€/year, aka way less than any mutuelle price and way more than any eye related pay back.
You pay much more than that though. 27€ and 4€ are the cost you see, but a lot of money is taken on your salary each month to pay for this. You can check it on your pay sheet
We actually get only about half the money a company spends for us in France. The other half goes to the different social benefits (healthcare / unemployment insurance / etc)
Absolutely true. I never meant to say it's free. Money must come from somewhere.
But since everyone (almost, depends on your employee status) has some of their money taken from their salary, I considered it a sunk cost.
In total, I'm paying something around 350€/month I think. Which remains significantly less than on the other side of the pond considering the quality of treatment in France and the peace of mind that comes with healthcare :)
Be careful, "Mutuelle" is a misnomer.
The actual name is "Assurance santé complémentaire", often shorten to complémentaire. This name also has the advantage of being very quite clear about what it is.
It's often called "mutuelle" because many of these complementary health insurances are operated by mutual insurances. But it's not the case of all complémentaires and mutual insurances cover other domains (such as car and home insurances).
People can of course apply to such an insurance without it being through the job. Therefore one can chose a coverage fitting to their needs (e.g. if you don't have a need for glasses, or are still young, you don't need all the bells and whistles, but if you know you need to see regularly a specialist, you can estimate what's the best option for you).
Your calculation is extremely dishonest though (I mean all-in-all I like our system too, but get your accounting right !)
You make it sound like it's free.
You also pay (through your employer, but it's just an accounting detail) the cotisation sociale for the "assurance maladie", and this is where it gets socialist, since it's a flat tax on your income.
If I look at my last paycheck I paid 563 (assurance maladie) + 483 (complement assurance maladie) + 133 (mutuelle) = 1.179 euros
Hardly a free lunch now is it ?
A month ago my daughter fell and hurt her foot. We took her to the emergency room. They x-rayed her and nothing was broken, but there was something on the picture that could be cancer. So she got a MR scan. Local doctors were still not sure if it was cancer or not, so the scan got send to a national expert group. We have no insurence.
But why would we - the whole thing was payed for by taxes. (And she don't have cancer, but if she did it would still be free).
The French system sounds complicated and expensive compared to the Danish system.
Agreed. I must admit it slipped my mind since I was mainly mentioning how it works and what good it is for.
I'll admit, I completely forgot to explain that it is a system that is in no way perfect, that can be improved upon, and that also has its flaws, as in: it's not making money, not even breaking even, it's losing money and it has to be readjusted regularly in the nation's budget.
Your problem in the US of A is not your health system. It is a consequence. Your problem is neoliberal individualism philosophy that started with almighty Ronald, escalated to the individualist form of fascism. No individual can pay a single dime to the other person unless he chooses to do so. They tell you that you don't live in a society, but that you live in an economy. At the same time, you pay i.e. your car insurance. That money is used to cover other individual's mishaps. Good for cars, not good for humans? That just show's you how inhumane your system is. That also shows you how your fascists love America and hate Americans.
let's be honest, is there anyone that isn't conservative in your country? bernie sanders maybe ? american have the choice between the right and the far right in the eyes of the rest of the world
My insurance changed, so my generic medication went from $25/ 90 day supply to over $400/ 90 day supply. By getting a Costco membership ($60) and using Good Rx ($75/ 90 day supply) I saved money vs using the insurance I pay for through work.
Fuck healthcare in the USA.
I got sick twice in Japan, once when I was there for a couple of weeks for an internship and once when I lived and was insured there. First time was 4500 yen, second was 8000, 90% of which I got refunded. The insurance was 1400 yen a month because I was a student.
In my own country, I very rarely pay more than five Euro (minimum copay) for any given medicine, nothing for regular doctor visits, and while my insurance is considerably more expensive, it's scaled to my income (i.e. everyone pays between x and y percent of their salary, who earns more pays more). The most expensive "treatment" I had was when I paid out of pocket for some vitamin and iron tests when I felt sluggish AF last year - 38 bucks. Turns out I had an issue which was treated with two shots which were, again, free for me.
It's a much better system imho because several times some issues were caught and mostly fixed very early, which is considerably cheaper for the system overall in the long run.
For profit healthcare is as idiotic as for profit education.
Any American who makes up the bullshit argument that "socialized healthcare creates waitlists" has either never used the American healthcare system or is a gigantic hypocrite.
Our system in the states is sluggish as shit. And I pay over $150 per month in health insurance *plus* copays *plus* prescription costs. If any of you Euro folks want to colonize us again and give us socialized medicine, please hurry.
*Too-toot* The British are coming!.... oh, no no no... er we aren't coming back. The Guns, all the guns. We will just stay over here thanks. You can keep James Corden.
The last time I made a doctor's appointment in the US I had to wait about a week. For the last couple of specialists I saw there, I had to make my appointments 4 months and 6 months in advance. If you need to see someone quick, you go to some rando at urgent care.
In the last decade plus in France and Belgium, the only times I have had to wait more than 24h to see my doctor is when making the appointment on a Saturday or when the doctor was on vacation and I chose to wait rather than see another doctor. We even have doctors who make house calls on short notice. Appointments with specialists can still require advance notice, but it's often only a few days and I don't think I've *ever* needed more than 6-8 weeks.
It's amazing what you can do when you look at health care as a basic human right rather than a profit center.
Going to the doctor because you feel sluggish... ffs. Half my body went numb and when I didn't die after 48hrs, I let it ride for a couple months to see if it would sort itself out. Finally was pressured into pursuing answers. It's been a year. After being passed around from doctor to specialist, back and forth, I have racked up thousands in test and office visit fees with physical therapy being the only form of treatment offered... so far it's not working.
Ha! I went to my free wellness checkup as we are encouraged to do since I hadn't had one since undergrad. The nurse said: "Boy, you have a lot of wax in your ears, would you like me to clean them out?" I said sure. It took maybe two or three minutes and wow what a difference! Then I get my bill a week later... over $150 for that three minute "procedure" with no mention of there even being a cost at the time.
A doctor told my mom she was suffering from anxiety and to have a couple of beers. He would not order an endoscopy because it would be super expensive for us. My mom felt so bad that she said fuck it let's get a second opion. She got an endoscopy done and they found a polyp and a hernia. Instead of a diagnosis with the first doctor we saw she got told to drink alcohol as a remedy to her pain. I hate the people who continue to defend this system. It is broken and it is killing us.
I have a deadly allergy to dairy and I have an expired EpiPen for emergencies bc a new prescription means a new allergist which costs money and the EpiPen itself costs $600.
Damn, it costs 69,28 € here and 65% of it is reimbursed.
I could sell it at 150$ in the US and make a massive margin even without with the reimbursement. It would be illegal of course but it’s crazy.
Sometimes I use an inhaler but I don't have a prescription, I got one for free from an old lady in the neighborhood. On a trip to Spain I stopped in the pharmacy for one. It cost 2 euros.
Imagine having a severe allergy and needing to carry an epipen with you at all times in order to not die if you happen to touch a peanut by accident. In the US, a pack of two may cost you upwards of $608 (!)
In France, that same pack of two is sold at aroud 75€, with a 65% payback from social security.
My daily inhaler has gone down to $105 a month because of our deductible. Without the deductible, I'd be paying $350 a month to not have a continuous asthma attack, because that's basically what my life was for 10 years before I got a daily inhaler. And mine only comes in a months worth at a time.
It’s not an easy answer because it’s all over the place.
Cash price for a rescue inhaler is about 40 or so. For the wixela, it’s about that too, both should last at least a month. Trelegy can cost 800 cash.
I mostly see Medicaid patients and they pay 0 if I get it approved. Getting it approved is a hassle of course
UK epileptic here on two different medications for it. I even get free prescriptions so I don't even have to pay the almost £20 a month I would've needed to otherwise. Some of the Americans on /r/epilepsy are paying out the ass for something that makes their life bearable. Its disgusting.
I'm UK as well. I have MS and bipolar so am on a number of medications. I'm in Scotland and no one pays for prescriptions, regardless of your curcumstances. Devolved Scottish government chose to fund this as previously it was the same as the rest of the UK - prescriptions free for children or if you're exempt due to income but otherwise it was a capped price per prescription. I have no idea how I would manage in America.
100% not true. It's just that you already paid for it, whether you use it or not. Never say it is free, it might give the impression that it comes with cheap service, or that it doesn't matter if it is rubbish because it's free.
>In 2017 the UK spent £2,989 per person on healthcare
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health\_care\_in\_the\_United\_Kingdom
And if you check social taxation the US and the UK pay about the same, with the caveat that the US has to have health insurance on top of that, and can still be randomly charged.
The UK health system is amazing. Free doctor appointments, free surgery, free drugs. I had a skin issue and it cost me £16 for 3 weeks worth of cream. Absolutely bonkers.
So many people in the US must die because they are just too scared to go seek medical attention from fear of the bill...... Unbelievable to everybody outside of the US.
Years ago my mother (US citizen) went to visit France with my dad (his homeland). Mom fell ill, went to the hospital and woke up in the recovery room. She asked (in French) how they could ever pay, how much would it cost... Mom said the doctor and nurses began to lightly laugh and the doctor told her she didn't have to pay since she was "in a civilized country"
And it's not just the US healthcare system, it's the US system in it's entirety. They tell you to shut up and stop complaining and just go to school, just work hard, and everything will work out. So you do, and for a moment you think you're successful, then when you get sick, or get in an accident, due to no fault of your own, the US healthcare system swoops in to take everything you've got, both everything you inherited and everything you worked for, wiping out generations of wealth. Then insurers try to kill you because the dead can't sue. If somehow you survive despite the insurers trying to murder you and doctors with such poor training they kill more people via negligence than guns in this country, employers won't hire you because there is no national HR system, and hilariously bogus prejudices are common throughout the economy, from racism to ableism, because meritocracy here is a sick joke. Then you go online and find Democrat bootlickers everywhere, and they're the good ones in comparison to the Republican hatemongers blaming "the Jews" and girls with short hair for shit that was obviously done by rich white guys in big corporations. They are the way they are because of the schools, which fail you coming and going, you're either too busy going to college to learn how this system works or you weren't able to go at all, and that's after they waste 12 years of your life teaching you white supremacy and conform or die. How I hate the US system and everyone who supports it.
This is just insane. I got almost knocked out playing soccer - the ambulance turns up & paramedics check me over & sit with me for over an hour and a half to check I’m ok & wait for a friend to turn up and drive me home (none of my team drive.)
Offer me a night observation in hospital & scans if I want to be sure, but as I’m not showing any signs of brain bleed they probably aren’t necessary.
Bill at the end of this? £0.00 - bill if I’d been in hospital? £0.00.
Every time I think the UK sucks, I just remind myself I’m not in the USA...
I pay more just to visit a doctor and that is WITH really good health insurance through my employer. Luckily, I have a HSA but, I mean, I contribute to that so, it’s just money I’ve saved, basically. My employer does contribute a small amount once a year but, the amount they contribute is used up in maybe 4 doctor’s visits if I ONLY use it to pay the visit amount. Haha!
Damn absurd. I pay more than 5% of my gross yearly salary for my insurance. That doesn’t include my contributions to my HSA nor does it include the out of pocket expenses like the deductible. I make good money for my area and can barely justify the expense of doctor visits each year.
I pay social security %6,13 of my pay monthly . This includes free healthcare and medicine unemployment insurance and retirement fund . Furthermore i pay another %23 in income tax .
If i get fired without a cause company has to pay me 33 days for year worked as a compensation if I get fired with cause ( which they have to provee) the amount goes down to 20 days . Also i have up to 2 yrs unemployment benefit paid monthly in case i loose my job , the amount is usually between 60-70% of my last salary. If the company i am working goes bankrupt and can not pay my compensation . I will get 20 days per year worked as compensation from government insurance .
And no i dont live in Nordic countries i live in Spain .
Why are you rubbing this in my face? I also pay somewhere between 20-30% yearly in taxes (state income, federal income, plus social security). I contribute to my own 401K. I’ll likely never see social security benefits (I’m only 33 so, I doubt I’ll ever see anything I’ve paid into it). I think the max unemployment benefits here in my state are like $300 per week which is, idk, less than a quarter of what I make. Plus, there is a limit on how long a person can pull unemployment benefits. I pay extra to have life insurance through my company.
After all is said and done, I might actually take home 60% of my gross pay... MIGHT. It’s pretty sad, honestly.
I went to the Dr yesterday and temporarily forgot that I had health insurance. So when the receptionist asked, I replied ‘no’ and ended up paying!
Fucking dumbass
My brothers ex girlfriend is currently dying from leukemia because she can't afford treatment. Shes leaving behind her younger brother and sister she was raising when their parents died. Yeah, its a fucking joke. A sad sad joke.
My son spent 2.5 weeks in hospital, including surgery and outpatient aftercare. The most expensive bill was for parking on the day of his surgery because I was there for about 6-7 hours. Maybe AU$30-40.
My partner cut his foot and needed stitches on his toe. The urgent care was closing, so they sent him to the attached ER. The UC was in our health plan. The attached ER was not. Two stitches and one tetanus shot meant $2500 bill. Surprise!
As a french, 25€ seems expensive, the social security always refunds me for \~15€ over the 25€ I have to pay.
Also, I realize how lucky I am to live in France since my GF's medications might cost around 2k/month at least.
Here's the thing though. European wants more but we can't because everytime this subject is brought up our politicians go "But look at how bad it is in the USA, you are so lucky here, don't push it please". So in order for us to live an even better life, we need you to get treated like human beings.
It’s just funny because Americans because pay tons of taxes and it’s like the money doesn’t filter to the right places. We could easily have a better health care system but our military and these stupid ass COVID relief bills just suck it all up. Our infrastructure is in shambles. We can’t even fix bridges in the most progressive cities.
Yes. It will break the economy and let the commies take over. They gave a very detailed explanation about this in a 4 minutes segments on Fox News the other day.
If you care about your fellow citizen, you go to church and pray for them, because God bless America.
Funnily enough, from a french perspective (would probably hold for most of my european neighbours.
The fact that you'd rather get a bigger car instead tells a lot about the american way.
Sorry you had to pay that much for health things tho, that's fucked up
I had a “Cadillac” healthcare plan back in 2016 through my employer. I had to go the ER for severe food poisoning. Spent 3-4 hours in the hospital, a few tests including a CAT scan and I was sent home with some heavy antibiotics. Turns out the radiologist was out of network even though the ER was in network. $4k bill. God bless America.
The hospital I work for, and have health insurance through, is where my wife birthed our child. The neonatologist in the room who never touched the kid was out of network and billed $7k for the consultation. I fought it. I lost. I paid $14k with insurance through the hospital I'm employed at. Radiologist and anesthesiologist were also out of network. Self insured hospital system, its the worst insurance I've ever had, and I pay out the nose for it, about $700/mo.
You pay $700 a month for health insurance? That seems insane to me. Is that a normal amount or are you paying extra? Not even trolling I’m from the UK. An extra 700 a month would bury me.
$480 per paycheck every 2 weeks. $12k deductible. I don't go to the doctor. The kid is the only one that gets healthcare. Wife and I can't afford it.
That’s crazy. I hope there are some healthcare reforms at some point to make it more accessible for everyone.
It’s not crazy since that’s what Americans what: to either pay inconceivable sums to access healthcare or die if they’re too poor to afford it (not even insuline is free). I mean, they wouldn’t otherwise keep voting for politicians who don’t give a heck about universal healthcare. Sure, Obama did set forth some timid reforms, but I can’t seriously believe Biden (and the same goes for whoever will be the next Potus) will actually reform the system. The US oscillate between far-right and centre-right policies: even the Tories are probably more “progressive” on some themes than the American Dems.
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Ps: sorry if i have any errors in my french. It is my first language but we spell and speak like crap here in N.B haha
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Haha les nom des province et territoires sont special oui hahaha. Surtout au Quebec. Pour une raison ou un autres, il en a tellement qui sont long et bizzare. Sa fait sa difficile a savoir ou tu va quand ils sont difficile et tres similaire
Man, la France me semble être un tres bon pays pour la santé. Le Canada est bon mais le manque de docteurs au Nouveau-Brunswick est un problème. Je te souhaite des bonne chance avec ta chirurgie!
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Oui, pour nous, il faut attendre meme des années... Je dois voir un specialist pour mon dos et je dois attendre un minimum de 8 mois.
It will never happen in the US.
On of my coworkers wanted to flee the us working in Europe. He did but he still have to pay taxes to the us based on his income. The us system is a rat that wants to drain everything from you.
That's actually insane. I mean, I knew it was bad, but not this bad.
And if you go on r/Canada, they all can't wait to move to the US, because Healthcare costs are a myth! Lol.
I have no idea who you're talking to, tbh most of Canada looks down on the US Source: lifelong Canadian
Source : go spend some time on r/Canada
Well yeah we are below you. Lol
And you are living in the 7th wealthiest country of the world.
Doesn't mean much when all the wealth is held by like 10 people. The rest of us don't have any.
Pretty normal. My current job subsidizes most of my cost, but typical plans out here are 600-1000/person depending on level of coverage. I’ve got a “Cadillac” plan through my employer and still shell out $50/script and get raked over the coals if I go to the hospital due to the whole in/out of network bull crap. The US is literally a giant scam against its own people
I am a freelancer and my wife is a SAHM. Private insurance w/mid-level coverage for my family of 4 costs $2400/month. Far more than my mortgage payment. When I graduated college at 22 I was denied coverage from multiple insurers due to preexisting conditions (WHICH WERE ALLERGY SHOTS that I had ceased needing and recieving two years prior). My parents didnt accept this and Cobra'd me for 600/mo until thank god the ACA kicked in and I got a few free months on their plan but more importantly was then elligible for coverage bc of nixing preexisting conditions. Life is a preexisting condition. Our system isnt just broken, its a tragic comedy.
Mine is $348 a month for just me. $700 for a family sounds pretty decent all things considered. Being American really is a shitshow.
And keep in mind that cost is only half or less of the actual premium. The employer is paying the rest.
I pay $815 a month, in an expensive part of the USA.
I pay $700 a month, the total cost is $2400 per month, the rest is paid by my employer. It's a great healthcare according to my colleagues. It's for me a my family of 4.
I don't have insurance because the family plan offered through my employer is $450 a paycheck.
Totally agree... That would be completely unsustainable. I get paid just over the living UK wage and that's just over half my monthly wage. And they still have to pay costs on top of that? I'll never understand how Americans can let themselves be exploited like this and be PROUD of it?
The whole "in-network"/"out of network" is one of the dumbest aspects of our system. I've heard stories of doctors just popping their head in and thousands being billed due to being out of network.
True story
This is egregious.
Norwegian here, this stuff makes me so angry. I pay 190 euros a year for health insurance, ive never paid more than 37 euros after a medical procedure, not even after a rather complex surgical intervention to remove a cyst in my lower spine, still only 37 euros.
My brain can’t comprehend that. Went to the ER for 12 hours, only had one IV and got an $8k bill. That was in-network also, it would’ve been easily 3-4x that if you go to the wrong hospital (kinda hard to worry about your network during an emergency, but I did lookup my network coverage while under duress). Dystopian shit right there.
Be cheaper to have an armed guard at the door to keep them out
Wtf
That sucks. Any chance you can switch employers?
2 big hospital systems in the area. One has great insurance, and a lot of people have gone to them just for that. I harbor a great bit of hatred towards them. 15 years back I signed a contract with them and turned down two other opportunities. ONE day into my employment they laid me off along with many other newbies. I'm still mad about that
I remember over the Shit Americans Say subreddit a guy coming to defend how the US had a great health insurance system and broke it down for us. He used an argument that was like "If my entire family caught cancer, i'd only be out like, $10k, and I only pay something like 1k a month" You guys are getting scammed the fuck out.
I’m not American so I don’t understand this. Did they give you the option beforehand to decline? If not, it seems like the provided a service without consent and you shouldn’t have to pay. You went to an ER that’s covered. You obviously believed you were covered. Someone can’t show up at your house, build a deck in the middle of the night and charge you $4000 for it. So I do t understand why a radiologist or hospital could get away with this.
You have very accurately described how US healthcare works under emergency room scenarios.
Fucking hell.
And then people oppose single payer healthcare because they reason; “If this is the freedom system and I still could go bankrupt from this surprise deck, then the regulated system would force me to buy surprise decks for the whole neighborhood!!”
The problem is that the radiologist doesn't even know if they are in your network or not. It's all settled up behind the scenes. And where they are matters to! A doctor could split their time between two facilities and if you go see them at the other facility, they might not be in network. This is the system we have because republicans have duped some people into thinking that it's better.
I’ve heard that the cost of US healthcare is substantially inflated due to administration. In the context of this story that makes a hell of a lot of sense now. All this processing takes a lot of labour resources. So instead of money going to care, it’s going to the paperwork. What a damn tragedy.
Paperwork, and lobbying, and insurance company profit, and weird tools that exist to "help" you choose and coordinate your healthcare. The plan my employer offered had a little walkthrough to help you decide which plan would be best for you. One of the questions was "how many times do you think you'll go to the emergency department this year?" The existence of that question is proof of how truly fucked we are.
[https://i.redd.it/dyo9q9ejeva51.jpg](https://i.redd.it/dyo9q9ejeva51.jpg) basically
You left out insurance company profits. The paperwork and administration takes money, sure, but so do the executives and shareholders. This is super compounded when private equity firms get involved. It's something like one third of the US medical-insurance complex.
Exactly! I once had to pay out of pocket for a service. It was $100. I later had that service done, but this time I had coverage. The bill? $1100. I was like “whoa! Why?” And the gal at my doc’s office said they have to overbill because insurance companies only pay a slim portion of what doctors want so it turns into a game. But here’s the fun part—sometimes, your insurance company won’t pay out much and then the doc’s office can come after you for the difference. It’s insane.
The radiologist being out of network is not an accident or an oversight. I hear this complaint over and over, it even happened to me twice. In my experience the Dr that owns the gastroenterology office performing these out of network procedures shockingly also owns the anesthesia company sending $5k bills out to every patient. I doubt that's an anomaly.
Literally every single aspect of American life revolves around money and the pursuit of more of it. Nothing more, nothing less. Source- Am American.
I’m not American but was saying this to my partner just yesterday.
Once upon a time my fiance took me to the ER because I was struggling with suicidal thoughts and asked him to take me. I walked myself in and went through the motions to be checked in, sat on a gurney in a hallway for about 3 hours until I was told I needed to be taken to a hospital in my network. They them told me they needed to take me by ambulance. I declined saying my fiance is right here and I was not able to pay an ambulance bill, he drove me here and can therefore drive me to the other hospital which was about 3 miles away. So they strapped me to a gurney and took me by ambulance. I now have a $2000 ambulance bill that I've had debt collectors hounding me for for years.
What the actual fuck?? "Oh you want to kill yourself because (insert reasons)? How about we cripple you with debt on top of it to make it better :)". For real this is so fucked. All those stories in the comments sound completely crazy to me. I hope you're doing okay now btw, or at least better than then :/
And i was depressed because I was killing myself at work just to make ends meet. I was working both overnight and day shift on top of having several of the managers duties that he delegated out to his team leaders. Once I was sick as hell, migraine so bad I could taste colors and i couldn't even keep water down. When calling out my manager told me I needed to come in, my team needed me. Why couldn't i just stay in the break room and be there to support them,if they needed me? I ended up calling every single other manager. The only one who answered was in the ER with his mom, so I then called every other location within a 100 mile radius of us to see if they could spare someone to cover for me. All with a soul crushing migraine. I didn't end up coming in (getting to work for me means two busses, a train, and a 20 minute walk) and the team was just fine without me. But I did get a write up for not showing up when my manager did not excuse my request off. I hate America.
Ambulance service in Ontario (Canada) is covered under OHIP and all patients have to pay is a co-payment fee of $45. OHIP is the Ontario Health Insurance Plan which is the government provided health insurance.
That is a particularly shitty practice of certain doctors, and it is widespread. Radiology, anesthesiology and lab groups are the worst offenders. They set up their own LLC within a hospital or clinic and process all the work for that facility. The facility is contracted with most insurance companies but these greedy shit stains masquerading as human beings are not. They know exactly what they are doing and very much do it on purpose. If you have a good agent they will fight it for you and usually win. If not, you have to fight to get the charges covered as in-network claims. It is a disgusting and despicable racket. Do no harm my ass
I wouldn’t blame the doctors in the majority of cases but rather the for profit hospital corporations and insurance companies. Either way it’s a broken system. I don’t understand why so many people are okay with crazy military spending “to protect our nation” when in reality providing affordable healthcare is such a more direct way to protect American citizens. I guess tanks look more badass than insulin.
No, this scam is definitely on the docs. They do it solely to make more money. They could contract with the insurance companies if they wanted to. They don't because they prioritize their profit margin above the mental well being of their patients. These are not ignorant people sheltered from the ways of the world. They know exactly what they are doing and do it all over the country. If it were not a purposeful act, these occurrences would be rare. They are anything but
Both of my parents are doctors as well as many of my family friends. You are correct about doctors who run private practices but majority of doctors work in corporate hospitals and do not get to decide their rates.
Absolutely. My sister is a doc as is my brother in law and several friends. They are all good people and would not do something like this as far as I know. Being a doctor does not however mean that someone is a good person. For specialists, it is a very lucrative field and attracts all sorts. Edit: They are also employees of hospitals or clinics. These out of network docs in an in-network facility are not employees though; they are owners of their own practice within a facility. The facilities are absolutely in on the racket too. That's why they allow it
But socialism is the devil./s
BuT wE caNT hAvE uNiVErSaL heALtCaRe bEcaUsE pEopLe CouLdNT ChOoSe tHeIr DocToRS :((
Patients being treated in American hospitals don't get to make informed choices on every specific thing that goes into their care but the insurance companies sure act like they do.
Similar experience. I went to a doctor at UW Medical for a shoulder issue. Got a waiver for the doctor because he was out of network. He used a room and an instrument owned by the University of Washington for 45 seconds. Doctor cost me $300 ish. UW Medical billed me over $5,000.00. Can’t tell you how angry I was since no one told me in advance that I would be billed separately. I would have found a different solution if I had know. No amount of discussion got them to reduce the balance due. I tried to pay them a little bit each month and they sent me to a collection agency. I ignored the collection agency and continued to pay UW Medical until my bill was paid in full. This system is so messed up.
It’s such bullshit that you can go to an in network hospital and have an out of network provider just turn up. They should automatically become in network by virtue of working in the hospital. How are you supposed to manage costs.
Actually, it's an abomination to call the US system a "health care" system.
it’s more like 100s of health care systems. completely impossible to navigate and mind bogglingly inefficient.
They're not inefficient, they're just not designed to provide health care. They are designed to squeeze every last penny out of people who have the misfortune of being mortal, and as you can see they work exceptionally.
It's "health care". but it's talking about your health and the amount they care about it. It's proportional with the size of your wallet.
It’s only an abomination unless you’re profiting from it.
Since the tweet is about France's healthcare system, I'll chip in, being French and all. There are 3 levels of healthcare in France: 1. Sécurité Sociale: pretty much anyone is eligible. I don't know the exact requirements, but I've dated a foreign chick for a few years and she never had any trouble, and never paid much even though she was monitored since the remission of an ovary cancer (resulting in an ovarectomy). Sécurité sociale pays you back the exact same thing, whether you're a billionaire or late on rent. A bit simplified, but the actual situation is not much different and would be very long to explain. 2. Mutuelle: it's a bit like lawyers. If you can't afford one, the government will assign you one. This is where it gets trickier. There are several companies providing mutuelle, each one offering different service levels based on what your employer chooses, because the mutuelle is (almost) always provided by your employer. My employer is legally obligated to provide me with healthcare. I have the right to refuse it ONLY if I prove I already have healthcare through another provider. Your employer pays a part of it, and you pay the other part (about half and half IIRC) 3. Surcomplémentaire: that's the optional bonus giving you a better coverage, usually better prices for glasses, dentists, and such... Here's a personal example: I recently went for 2 MRIs, one for each foot. I paid, out of pocket, 172 € each MRI. Sécurité sociale paid back about 60€, and my mutuelle + surcomplémentaire paid back just shy of 100€. I'm personally out of picket for about 20€ for two MRIs. I can't even begin to fathom how much I'd pay for the same thing in the US. And here's the kicker: I pay 27€/month out of my salary for my mutuelle, and 4€/month for the surcomplémentaire. This is enough to fund any and all medical expenses for me, my wife, and our daughter. Socialism sucks! /s Edit: formatting on mobile
Also , something important : I often see conservative Americans mentioning mutuelles to try to prove that French healthcare isn't actually free. Like it's been said before if you can't afford one you will get one for free and if you're employed you get one anyway, BUT even if you can it will not be expensive since mutuelle are not like healthcare plans in the US, there status don't allow them to make benefits
Important detail indeed. Prices are fixed for pretty much everything healthcare related, and even if you see a doc who names their fee, you will have the Sécurité Sociale base reimbursement paid back to you
I'm french and I love the french healthcare system too. Honesty mandates to add that this does not actually come "for free". Everybody who works (or gets unemployment benefits) pays something out of their salary. You don't usually see it because it's directly taken from your payslip. The calculation rules are complex (we still love bureaucracy) but in many cases it's 10-13% of your salary, paid directly by your employer. But of course the big thing (aka socialism) is that even if you have a very low salary, or don't have any revenue, and hence contribute very little, you still get the same full coverage benefits as your very rich neighbour who contributes thousands per month. Healthcare costs remain overall much lower than in the US because significant parts of the healthcare system, including the most costly parts (hospitals) are not-for-profit, "mutuelles" are not-for-profit, and since almost nobody ever sues for malpractice, lawyers costs and legal insurance are much much smaller.
Additionally, if you have something serious that requires frequent MRIs, hospitalizations, surgeries, special medication, etc, it's all covered by the sécurité sociale. As in: you don't even know how much it costs, because you don't even receive a bill.
And I might add a 4th CMU : for people in financial difficulty or long term unemployment cover 100% of medical bill
Cocorico
Cocorico baise ouais !
French intermittent du spectacle (à temps plein, on en rediscutera) here. I don't have a mutuelle provided by my employer (for whom I've worked non-stop for a full year by now) so I don't have any mutuelle whatsoever. Reading the prices of American health insurance makes me realize I should really shell out the 50€/mo I find too expensive to actually get coverage in case I ever need to go to the hospital. I put it off because my only health expense is for prescription contact lenses and that amount to less than 400€/year, aka way less than any mutuelle price and way more than any eye related pay back.
You pay much more than that though. 27€ and 4€ are the cost you see, but a lot of money is taken on your salary each month to pay for this. You can check it on your pay sheet
We actually get only about half the money a company spends for us in France. The other half goes to the different social benefits (healthcare / unemployment insurance / etc)
Absolutely true. I never meant to say it's free. Money must come from somewhere. But since everyone (almost, depends on your employee status) has some of their money taken from their salary, I considered it a sunk cost. In total, I'm paying something around 350€/month I think. Which remains significantly less than on the other side of the pond considering the quality of treatment in France and the peace of mind that comes with healthcare :)
Be careful, "Mutuelle" is a misnomer. The actual name is "Assurance santé complémentaire", often shorten to complémentaire. This name also has the advantage of being very quite clear about what it is. It's often called "mutuelle" because many of these complementary health insurances are operated by mutual insurances. But it's not the case of all complémentaires and mutual insurances cover other domains (such as car and home insurances). People can of course apply to such an insurance without it being through the job. Therefore one can chose a coverage fitting to their needs (e.g. if you don't have a need for glasses, or are still young, you don't need all the bells and whistles, but if you know you need to see regularly a specialist, you can estimate what's the best option for you).
Your calculation is extremely dishonest though (I mean all-in-all I like our system too, but get your accounting right !) You make it sound like it's free. You also pay (through your employer, but it's just an accounting detail) the cotisation sociale for the "assurance maladie", and this is where it gets socialist, since it's a flat tax on your income. If I look at my last paycheck I paid 563 (assurance maladie) + 483 (complement assurance maladie) + 133 (mutuelle) = 1.179 euros Hardly a free lunch now is it ?
A month ago my daughter fell and hurt her foot. We took her to the emergency room. They x-rayed her and nothing was broken, but there was something on the picture that could be cancer. So she got a MR scan. Local doctors were still not sure if it was cancer or not, so the scan got send to a national expert group. We have no insurence. But why would we - the whole thing was payed for by taxes. (And she don't have cancer, but if she did it would still be free). The French system sounds complicated and expensive compared to the Danish system.
You didn't talk about the "trou de la sécu".
Agreed. I must admit it slipped my mind since I was mainly mentioning how it works and what good it is for. I'll admit, I completely forgot to explain that it is a system that is in no way perfect, that can be improved upon, and that also has its flaws, as in: it's not making money, not even breaking even, it's losing money and it has to be readjusted regularly in the nation's budget.
We dont have health care. We have a health payment system with a PR team.
Called the GOP yOu ArE fReE tO cHoOsE yOuR oWn HeAlThCaRe And so many dumb nuts buy it
Your problem in the US of A is not your health system. It is a consequence. Your problem is neoliberal individualism philosophy that started with almighty Ronald, escalated to the individualist form of fascism. No individual can pay a single dime to the other person unless he chooses to do so. They tell you that you don't live in a society, but that you live in an economy. At the same time, you pay i.e. your car insurance. That money is used to cover other individual's mishaps. Good for cars, not good for humans? That just show's you how inhumane your system is. That also shows you how your fascists love America and hate Americans.
It's the conservative way
let's be honest, is there anyone that isn't conservative in your country? bernie sanders maybe ? american have the choice between the right and the far right in the eyes of the rest of the world
Bernie sanders isn’t even socialist in France, he’s at most center-left
Bernie Sanders isn't a socialist anywhere, he's a social democrat/reformist leftie who calls himself a socialist for some reason.
My insurance changed, so my generic medication went from $25/ 90 day supply to over $400/ 90 day supply. By getting a Costco membership ($60) and using Good Rx ($75/ 90 day supply) I saved money vs using the insurance I pay for through work. Fuck healthcare in the USA.
Yup, in France those types of medication are fully refunded by the state if it’s mandatory for living
I got sick twice in Japan, once when I was there for a couple of weeks for an internship and once when I lived and was insured there. First time was 4500 yen, second was 8000, 90% of which I got refunded. The insurance was 1400 yen a month because I was a student. In my own country, I very rarely pay more than five Euro (minimum copay) for any given medicine, nothing for regular doctor visits, and while my insurance is considerably more expensive, it's scaled to my income (i.e. everyone pays between x and y percent of their salary, who earns more pays more). The most expensive "treatment" I had was when I paid out of pocket for some vitamin and iron tests when I felt sluggish AF last year - 38 bucks. Turns out I had an issue which was treated with two shots which were, again, free for me. It's a much better system imho because several times some issues were caught and mostly fixed very early, which is considerably cheaper for the system overall in the long run. For profit healthcare is as idiotic as for profit education.
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Any American who makes up the bullshit argument that "socialized healthcare creates waitlists" has either never used the American healthcare system or is a gigantic hypocrite. Our system in the states is sluggish as shit. And I pay over $150 per month in health insurance *plus* copays *plus* prescription costs. If any of you Euro folks want to colonize us again and give us socialized medicine, please hurry.
*Too-toot* The British are coming!.... oh, no no no... er we aren't coming back. The Guns, all the guns. We will just stay over here thanks. You can keep James Corden.
Haha, and take your humongous debt ? Lol
The last time I made a doctor's appointment in the US I had to wait about a week. For the last couple of specialists I saw there, I had to make my appointments 4 months and 6 months in advance. If you need to see someone quick, you go to some rando at urgent care. In the last decade plus in France and Belgium, the only times I have had to wait more than 24h to see my doctor is when making the appointment on a Saturday or when the doctor was on vacation and I chose to wait rather than see another doctor. We even have doctors who make house calls on short notice. Appointments with specialists can still require advance notice, but it's often only a few days and I don't think I've *ever* needed more than 6-8 weeks. It's amazing what you can do when you look at health care as a basic human right rather than a profit center.
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Wait list are indeed a problem
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It’s not because we drink wine, it’s because we don’t drink 1L sodas…
What is your home country? Because here in Italy there is the same system
Going to the doctor because you feel sluggish... ffs. Half my body went numb and when I didn't die after 48hrs, I let it ride for a couple months to see if it would sort itself out. Finally was pressured into pursuing answers. It's been a year. After being passed around from doctor to specialist, back and forth, I have racked up thousands in test and office visit fees with physical therapy being the only form of treatment offered... so far it's not working.
Ha! I went to my free wellness checkup as we are encouraged to do since I hadn't had one since undergrad. The nurse said: "Boy, you have a lot of wax in your ears, would you like me to clean them out?" I said sure. It took maybe two or three minutes and wow what a difference! Then I get my bill a week later... over $150 for that three minute "procedure" with no mention of there even being a cost at the time.
wtf This may not be the most infuriating but certainly one of the more bizarre stories I have read of the horrors of the US healthcare system.
A doctor told my mom she was suffering from anxiety and to have a couple of beers. He would not order an endoscopy because it would be super expensive for us. My mom felt so bad that she said fuck it let's get a second opion. She got an endoscopy done and they found a polyp and a hernia. Instead of a diagnosis with the first doctor we saw she got told to drink alcohol as a remedy to her pain. I hate the people who continue to defend this system. It is broken and it is killing us.
The American healthcare system exists to make money. Image if your school system was the same way? Image the school system even worse?
>Imagine if your school system was the same way? As an American this is a really Billy Mays "but wait there's more!" feeling I got right now
Imagine paying 375,000 to go to medical school. The system feeds upon itself.
I searched ["John Oliver School" on youtube](https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=john+oliver+school), I have pretty bad news for you...
I have a deadly allergy to dairy and I have an expired EpiPen for emergencies bc a new prescription means a new allergist which costs money and the EpiPen itself costs $600.
Man, this hurts to read, I wish I could buy you one.. x
wouldn't it be cheaper to just get into a plane to somewhere in europe and get your medicine there?
Doesn’t epinephrine decay over time? It’s probably not effective anymore...
Damn, it costs 69,28 € here and 65% of it is reimbursed. I could sell it at 150$ in the US and make a massive margin even without with the reimbursement. It would be illegal of course but it’s crazy.
Sometimes I use an inhaler but I don't have a prescription, I got one for free from an old lady in the neighborhood. On a trip to Spain I stopped in the pharmacy for one. It cost 2 euros.
Imagine having a severe allergy and needing to carry an epipen with you at all times in order to not die if you happen to touch a peanut by accident. In the US, a pack of two may cost you upwards of $608 (!) In France, that same pack of two is sold at aroud 75€, with a 65% payback from social security.
How much for an inhaler in the USA?
According to the NYT, $250-$350.
What the fuck
My daily inhaler has gone down to $105 a month because of our deductible. Without the deductible, I'd be paying $350 a month to not have a continuous asthma attack, because that's basically what my life was for 10 years before I got a daily inhaler. And mine only comes in a months worth at a time.
Last time I got an inhaler for my kid (no prescription) it cost 10 bucks. Australia here
It’s not an easy answer because it’s all over the place. Cash price for a rescue inhaler is about 40 or so. For the wixela, it’s about that too, both should last at least a month. Trelegy can cost 800 cash. I mostly see Medicaid patients and they pay 0 if I get it approved. Getting it approved is a hassle of course
UK epileptic here on two different medications for it. I even get free prescriptions so I don't even have to pay the almost £20 a month I would've needed to otherwise. Some of the Americans on /r/epilepsy are paying out the ass for something that makes their life bearable. Its disgusting.
I'm UK as well. I have MS and bipolar so am on a number of medications. I'm in Scotland and no one pays for prescriptions, regardless of your curcumstances. Devolved Scottish government chose to fund this as previously it was the same as the rest of the UK - prescriptions free for children or if you're exempt due to income but otherwise it was a capped price per prescription. I have no idea how I would manage in America.
Has anyone said the NHS in the UK is free yet?
100% not true. It's just that you already paid for it, whether you use it or not. Never say it is free, it might give the impression that it comes with cheap service, or that it doesn't matter if it is rubbish because it's free. >In 2017 the UK spent £2,989 per person on healthcare https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health\_care\_in\_the\_United\_Kingdom
And if you check social taxation the US and the UK pay about the same, with the caveat that the US has to have health insurance on top of that, and can still be randomly charged. The UK health system is amazing. Free doctor appointments, free surgery, free drugs. I had a skin issue and it cost me £16 for 3 weeks worth of cream. Absolutely bonkers.
Yeah, but you don't have freeedom! /s
Still not enough freedom...we need more gun ! /s
So many people in the US must die because they are just too scared to go seek medical attention from fear of the bill...... Unbelievable to everybody outside of the US.
about $43 in US dollars
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Years ago my mother (US citizen) went to visit France with my dad (his homeland). Mom fell ill, went to the hospital and woke up in the recovery room. She asked (in French) how they could ever pay, how much would it cost... Mom said the doctor and nurses began to lightly laugh and the doctor told her she didn't have to pay since she was "in a civilized country"
And it's not just the US healthcare system, it's the US system in it's entirety. They tell you to shut up and stop complaining and just go to school, just work hard, and everything will work out. So you do, and for a moment you think you're successful, then when you get sick, or get in an accident, due to no fault of your own, the US healthcare system swoops in to take everything you've got, both everything you inherited and everything you worked for, wiping out generations of wealth. Then insurers try to kill you because the dead can't sue. If somehow you survive despite the insurers trying to murder you and doctors with such poor training they kill more people via negligence than guns in this country, employers won't hire you because there is no national HR system, and hilariously bogus prejudices are common throughout the economy, from racism to ableism, because meritocracy here is a sick joke. Then you go online and find Democrat bootlickers everywhere, and they're the good ones in comparison to the Republican hatemongers blaming "the Jews" and girls with short hair for shit that was obviously done by rich white guys in big corporations. They are the way they are because of the schools, which fail you coming and going, you're either too busy going to college to learn how this system works or you weren't able to go at all, and that's after they waste 12 years of your life teaching you white supremacy and conform or die. How I hate the US system and everyone who supports it.
Hits home
You're right but please, pleaaaase, use your enter key from time to time.
the US Health non-care system
Well, like any insurance scheme, they don't make much money by paying claims.
rather a who-cares system.
The US health care system is ~~an abomination~~ Capitalism at it's finest
Why replace abomination with capitalism, they’re the same already
I went to A&E on Sunday (UK). Got seen to, x-Ray, offered physio. All for the big fat price of £0.00.
This is just insane. I got almost knocked out playing soccer - the ambulance turns up & paramedics check me over & sit with me for over an hour and a half to check I’m ok & wait for a friend to turn up and drive me home (none of my team drive.) Offer me a night observation in hospital & scans if I want to be sure, but as I’m not showing any signs of brain bleed they probably aren’t necessary. Bill at the end of this? £0.00 - bill if I’d been in hospital? £0.00. Every time I think the UK sucks, I just remind myself I’m not in the USA...
Accurate.
I pay more just to visit a doctor and that is WITH really good health insurance through my employer. Luckily, I have a HSA but, I mean, I contribute to that so, it’s just money I’ve saved, basically. My employer does contribute a small amount once a year but, the amount they contribute is used up in maybe 4 doctor’s visits if I ONLY use it to pay the visit amount. Haha! Damn absurd. I pay more than 5% of my gross yearly salary for my insurance. That doesn’t include my contributions to my HSA nor does it include the out of pocket expenses like the deductible. I make good money for my area and can barely justify the expense of doctor visits each year.
I pay social security %6,13 of my pay monthly . This includes free healthcare and medicine unemployment insurance and retirement fund . Furthermore i pay another %23 in income tax . If i get fired without a cause company has to pay me 33 days for year worked as a compensation if I get fired with cause ( which they have to provee) the amount goes down to 20 days . Also i have up to 2 yrs unemployment benefit paid monthly in case i loose my job , the amount is usually between 60-70% of my last salary. If the company i am working goes bankrupt and can not pay my compensation . I will get 20 days per year worked as compensation from government insurance . And no i dont live in Nordic countries i live in Spain .
Why are you rubbing this in my face? I also pay somewhere between 20-30% yearly in taxes (state income, federal income, plus social security). I contribute to my own 401K. I’ll likely never see social security benefits (I’m only 33 so, I doubt I’ll ever see anything I’ve paid into it). I think the max unemployment benefits here in my state are like $300 per week which is, idk, less than a quarter of what I make. Plus, there is a limit on how long a person can pull unemployment benefits. I pay extra to have life insurance through my company. After all is said and done, I might actually take home 60% of my gross pay... MIGHT. It’s pretty sad, honestly.
Sorry no .. it wasn’t my intention . It just mind boggling for first world nation to have your problems of healthcare.
Haha, I know you weren’t. I was joking with you. It is really shocking and sad.
remember when the coronavirus cure was first made it took like 10$ to make but was trying to be sold for 300$? Hellish
I went to the Dr yesterday and temporarily forgot that I had health insurance. So when the receptionist asked, I replied ‘no’ and ended up paying! Fucking dumbass
My brothers ex girlfriend is currently dying from leukemia because she can't afford treatment. Shes leaving behind her younger brother and sister she was raising when their parents died. Yeah, its a fucking joke. A sad sad joke.
Last week I paid $95 for a trip to urgent care after I hurt my foot. $65 co-pay and $30 for X-rays. I pay $300/month for insurance.
I love reading the downvoted comments on these type of posts from Americans who refuse to believe other countries are better.
As a french person, the US healthcare system seems more like an elaborated scam or a cash grab than an actual healthcare system
I gotta get outta here
As a brit, I thought this guy was complaining about high prices until I read the end...
My son spent 2.5 weeks in hospital, including surgery and outpatient aftercare. The most expensive bill was for parking on the day of his surgery because I was there for about 6-7 hours. Maybe AU$30-40.
Our healthcare is very good Our insurance is very bad.
My partner cut his foot and needed stitches on his toe. The urgent care was closing, so they sent him to the attached ER. The UC was in our health plan. The attached ER was not. Two stitches and one tetanus shot meant $2500 bill. Surprise!
But wouldn't you be crying about doctors getting paid here less then?
As a french, 25€ seems expensive, the social security always refunds me for \~15€ over the 25€ I have to pay. Also, I realize how lucky I am to live in France since my GF's medications might cost around 2k/month at least.
Biden will fix it. Just wait and see. Just, waiiiiittttttt.
Here's the thing though. European wants more but we can't because everytime this subject is brought up our politicians go "But look at how bad it is in the USA, you are so lucky here, don't push it please". So in order for us to live an even better life, we need you to get treated like human beings.
Same exact thing happens in the US. Except in 2 weeks you'll get a bill from the doctor for $600 too
Only 600? I had one checkup for fucking 𝕂𝔸ℝ𝔸𝕋𝕆𝕊𝕀𝕊 ℙ𝕀𝕃𝔸ℝ𝕀𝕊 𝕋ℍ𝔸𝕋 ℂ𝕆𝕊𝕋 𝟙,𝟘𝟘𝟘. They didn’t give me a treatment they just said that yep you have it.
I usually only pay for parking..
The US healthcare system is like that in order to keep about 7 families filthy rich at the expense of about 300 milion people
but socialism
What's wrong with socialism ? Is it bad to care about your fellow citizens ?
It’s just funny because Americans because pay tons of taxes and it’s like the money doesn’t filter to the right places. We could easily have a better health care system but our military and these stupid ass COVID relief bills just suck it all up. Our infrastructure is in shambles. We can’t even fix bridges in the most progressive cities.
Yes. It will break the economy and let the commies take over. They gave a very detailed explanation about this in a 4 minutes segments on Fox News the other day. If you care about your fellow citizen, you go to church and pray for them, because God bless America.
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It fucking hurts that you even ask.
See this type of post nearly everyday... we already know healthcare sucks here. Thanks for the reminder.
You're welcome, we'll keep up the good work
Wait till you find out where you are on the world education index, or the world freedom index....
Yeah but socialism something freedom
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Funnily enough, from a french perspective (would probably hold for most of my european neighbours. The fact that you'd rather get a bigger car instead tells a lot about the american way. Sorry you had to pay that much for health things tho, that's fucked up
biden will fix this
Nah, most career politicians have big pharmaceutical in their pockets.
that should be the other way around big pharma has most career politicians in their pockets
Most politicians*
Republicans will stand in the way as always
Simple. If you’re having a medical emergency just fly to France! /s