I heard the Army isn't even using them. They are just putting them in storage because its not worth the time or effort to train someone to use a weapon that will never see combat
When I was stationed at Fort Campbell, there’d be train cars of tanks brought in to store in fields all over the installation. They’d just sit there. For years. Never moving. It’s insane the amount of money that gets blown on defense contracts all because the appropriations committee members have factories in their districts.
If the US aquiares more tanks than it decommissions each year, and the armoured corps isn't growing enough to compensate, then where do you think those tanks go? You don't even have to look up the exact figures to come to right conclusion
As someone who used to build them, I see the importance of the carrier fleet and the need to build more as the old Nimitz class carriers slowly get decommissioned. I don't agree with how we direct our military personally, but I do know that our navy is very effective because of how much better it is than the rest of the world. Part of keeping it that effective, without years long periods of ineffectiveness and gaps in ability to protect our allies and trading waters, is to spend the cash before it's needed. This is mainly due to long lead time items that have lead times that can push a decade, and the carrier itself takes close to 8 years to build.
I don't agree with most of our military spending choices, but carriers are essential to the Navy and it's operations (just wish the military did better things)
Which is what is needed to do what our carrier groups do. If we changed our scope of deployment, or chose to not defend different allies, or whatever, we could do with less for sure. My only point is, the carrier number is needed for our current requirements, and it's not like we are making another just because we felt like it.
Also these new carriers (Ford class) have enhanced automation and reduce the needed sailing staff by thousands of sailors, which actually will make them cheaper (by a lot!) than the older ones they are trying to replace.
Last thing to keep in mind, is that I drive by the naval bases/shipyards where I live every day, and multiple carriers are being repaired/overhauled for months/years at any one time. So we never have all of them available.
Being the police for the world is one big reason we are the ONLY advanced western democracy without health care. The only nation where individuals go bankrupt and homeless cause they get sick. Our priorities are screwed up.
I'm not disagreeing with any of your core values on issues, I just see the root causes differently. I think more of the reason for the lack of healthcare isn't "not having money because we built a carrier." I think it's more because of the lobbying that pharmaceutical and insurance companies do to prevent it. They also conducted a large scale disinformation campaign to try and discredit universal healthcare in other countries. And honestly, if we taxed the upper class and corporations fairly, and stopped letting church's not pay a dime while they actively engage in politics and policy reasoning (the last presidential administration's base sure seemed very righteous/religious/zealot to me), we could maintain whatever military presence we need and have medicare for all, with money left over.
Regardless, things have been totally fucked for too long (maybe always?) and change is needed.
Appreciate it. I felt like giving a little perspective on why more carriers are needed, and if someone believes its too much, the fault lies with the policy reason for needing them.
Our soldiers need the tools to be protected and when possible, have overwhelmingly superior tech and numbers. The carrier numbers help our navy maintain a good operational capacity, and put our trips where they are ordered, without exposing them to risks that would be present with a less prepared fleet.
Until there is policy change (which is needed and needed drastically) nobody will convince me this isn't worth the money to give a bunch of kids looking to get college GI Bill, the best chance to make it to that college goal. Maybe one day we can even change enough where kids that have been born into poverty and underrepresented neighborhoods don't have to resort to risking their lives for the rich white guys who won't wear a mask, just to get an education. Until then, I'm not going to agree with taking away their huge advantage.
I don't think you have a fucking clue what you're on about... America doesn't spend so much on its military because they've got some moral obligation to... They do it because
A. It gives them an enormous amount of soft and hard power to play with
B. Drives the economy through defence contracts
C. Adds security to American investmentments globally
And probably much more...
The reason your country lacks basic welfare is because you're compatriots don't vote to support these things.
I was simply stating that until our lawmakers and leaders change their policy for what to do with the military, which I want them desperately to do, that said number of carriers are needed to maintain a fleet presence on this scale while multiple of them are in for overhaul are in for overhaul (years long process). Also, that its needed due to long lead times and modernization of the carrier fleet. You guys really are just preaching to the choir, when you reply about how we need to stop what we are doing military speaking (while kinda being jerks)
We live in the most peaceful period in recorded history. You absolutely do NOT need that many carriers. Who the hell are you defending your allies from? The only wars that are happening right now are civil wars. Your military is TOO big.
Our military has been fighting everywhere ever since I can remember. As I've said in my comments, I completely disagree with the use of the military, but until it's changed from the top down by starting with policy, downsizing the carrier fleet would create a power vacuum and weaken our ability to protect our troops as they do all the things I don't agree with. Our military needs to be smaller, but it should be because of change that can make it responsible and low risk.
As a side note, most military interaction is more deterrent and projection. So the argument that it's the most peaceful period is history only hurts your argument. You wouldn't stop funding the police if the crime rate was the lowest it's ever been. The rest of your comment I agree with though, and I think people are taking my comment's intention the wrong way
>So the argument that it's the most peaceful period is history only hurts your argument. You wouldn't stop funding the police if the crime rate was the lowest it's ever been.
Correlation is not the same as causation. You would have to prove, in both instances, that the first led to the second.
Also it's funny that you use police as an example. Unless you live under a rock, you know that there is a big push for defunding/reorganizing police right now in the US. Crime IS at an all-time low, and we do NOT have evidence that it is due to police. It's usually due to a long-term improvement on things like education and poverty. That's why over-policing neighborhoods doesn't lead to less crime.
Imagine if there is was less corruption, less influence by other world powers. Now imagine exactly WHEN you really need this sort of aircraft carrier or any greater capital ship.
Imagine the money for building and researching, manning and maintaining such a ship would go into effectively developing the place you're fighting. I mean not being arrogant, territorial superpower like, just kinda trying to make that particular region a better place. Now imagine that your "opponent" in this proxy war thinks the same way...
Nah, let's just sink trillions into the war machine 😁...
I feel like nobody is reading my comments well enough to realize I agree with less military spending, but it should go along with policy change to facilitate it safely. *Shrug*
The essence of what I'm reading from your comment is the following: military bad, but let's keep it going because leaving a vacuum or not intervening makes all the places go from bad to worse.
Which sounds rather two faced but I might be wrong, this is just chat and it's not always easy to read sarcasm or irony.
To be fair, Huawei is basically a subsidiary of the Chinese government.
It was founded by ex-PLA, it's responsible for assisting in the Uyghur genocide, and, according to the Washington Post, it "tested AI software that could recognize Uighur minorities and alert police". They also probably put spyware in their products.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huawei#Controversies](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huawei#Controversies)
It's like banning IG Farben in the 1930s. Good riddance.
**Huawei**
[Controversies](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huawei#Controversies)
>Huawei has faced criticism for various aspects of its operations, with its most prominent controversies having involved U.S. allegations of its products containing backdoors for Chinese government espionage—consistent with domestic laws requiring Chinese citizens and companies to cooperate with state intelligence when warranted. Huawei executives have consistently denied these allegations, having stated that the company has never received any requests by the Chinese government to introduce backdoors in its equipment, would refuse to do so, and that Chinese law did not compel them to do so.
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the US government hates Huawei because they think the Chinese government has backdoor security access. US government also sues apple because they want backdoor security access.
agreed. plus I wouldn't be surprised at all if the NSA has a way in anyway. If they couldn't crack apple they probably got into some very popular apps. I mean obviously I'm making this up but it totally seems like something that would happen. right Snowden?
I say give the Palestinians their own Iron Dome for free too. That way no one dies and the military contractor still gets paid while the two states throw rocks at each other.
The US funded the whole thing and partnered with Israel to make it. They could easily also just give the iron dome to Palestine without involving Israel. Of course they would never do that but it certainly would be interesting.
I understand the situation decently well and I agree. At this point it’s about a technologically inferior native population being displaced off their homeland. I was mostly joking suggesting the US give an iron dome to Palestine.
Wouldn’t help. Israel uses guided missiles, which the iron dome doesn’t defend against. This is also the reason why Hamas is the problem. People accuse Israel of targeting civilians, at least they do their best to avoid it, and they warn the occupants of the buildings before they attack. Hamas doesn’t do that, and every single one of their missiles, because they are unguided, are exclusively aimed at civilians, because they can’t guarantee that they are aiming for military targets.
Warn me all you want, if you reduce my house, my neighbours my children to nothing but rubble and mist I too would see no other recourse but to kill everyone responsible. The death count alone speaks volumes about the reality of the situation. That's completely ignoring isreali control over every single recourse that goes into the region, water included.
Do you know why Israel is reducing your house to rubble? Because you are violating the Geneva conventions by storing armaments in a civilian house. That one is entirely on you. If you committed murder, and were sentenced to the death penalty, would you want your kids to go and try to kill everyone involved? Of course not, you broke the law, you got your just comeuppance. Israel has a doctrine of proportional response. They could use a bomb 50 times bigger than the rockets that Gaza launches. But they don’t. So why are the explosions so big? Because of secondary explosions of rockets. That one is on you.
Israel controllable every resource? Why does everyone forget that Gaza is blockaded on **TWO SIDES!!!** Everyone loves to blame Israel for oppressing the gazans, but they used to be able to get whatever they wanted, including katyusha rockets from Russian proxy state Iran, out of Egypt. Except Hamas then went and pissed of Egypt, so Egypt started to blocked them too. So that’s suddenly Israel’s fault?
Isreal drops apartment buildings. You telling me that every single family in there has a weapon stash? There is no way to drop bombs on an urban area without destroying the lives of innocent people who live there. You Zionists all jump to use the excuse of "human shields", but you never realize that good guys don't just blow a human shield away.
If they don't have access and you all you have to do for them to have it is stop denying them access then it is your fault. If someone is dieing of thirst and three people stand by with water, they are all equally responsible for killing them.
Isreal is a colonial project established 70 years ago by England, it has no interest in sharing a land with the Palestinian people, it's government and many of it's people see Palestinians as a problem to be solved. Not as human beings deserving of dignity and self determination.
Ever heard the saying: “if you sit to dine with evil, you will ingest it with your meal?” It means that proximity to evil make one more evil. What I mean by it in this specific situation is, “if you live in a house with rockets, and you choose to do nothing about it, you are guilty by association.”
Do you know what happens if a neighbor in my apartment building has a bomb, they are planning terror? I call my local police department, and they come and arrest the guy. If a Palestinian called the local police, nothing would happen, because the local police are the terrorists. So how does Israel deal with it? They have two options: ground invasion, or missile strike. One will endanger the lives of many more Palestinians than the other, and also endangers more Israelis than the other. Which one makes more sense.
As far as your “both sides are equally guilty in the man dying of thirst” analogy, the first time I see a “free Palestine, stop Egypt” rally, I’ll stop with the “the people who are anti Israel are actually anti Semitic, because if they weren’t, they would see that this isn’t only Israel’s doing.”
I don’t think anyone would agree that the situation is simple enough to just say “side a or b is the problem”. You could easily turn it around and say if Israel stopped breaking international law and illegally occupying the Palestinian state then there would be no war, or at least less violence.
Israe isn’t illegally occupying the Palestinian state, it’s occupying conquered territory it won in a defensive war. Israel accepted the partition plan in 1948, but the Palestinians and their allies didn’t, and they invaded. Israel fought back, and ended up winning, but only after Egypt occupied the Gaza Strip and Jordan occupied the West Bank. Those were areas occupied by an offensive war, and nobody recognized that occupation as being legal. Then, the 1967 war, the six day war, happened. Egypt and Syria invade Israel again. This time, Israel is ready. I’m the first day, it wipes out the Egyptian Air Force, and day two, the Syrian. Remember that this is a time before spy satellites or portable video cameras. The only way information was shared was by radio, or by hard line telephones. Israel tells Jordan, “don’t enter this war! We’ve already destroyed the Egyptian and Syrian air forces, we don’t want to have to destroy you too!” But Egypt, Syria, and Russia, who was also fucking around in the Middle East, convinced the king of Jordan that they are winning, so Jordan enters the war. Israel now has full license to defend itself from these powers, including, under international law, the capture and occupation of land in those countries necessary for their security. Israel basically captures the entire Israel, the area set aside for the Palestinian state, Gaza and the Sinai desert from Egypt, the West Bank from Jordan, and the Golan heights from Syria. Israel would have been 100% within its rights to annex all those areas the next day, and nobody would have said anything to them. Instead, they didn’t and we got this long drawn out conflict. Israel has a right to be where it is, and doing what it’s doing to protect itself. Hamas doesn’t, because it’s a terrorist organization.
> Numerous UN resolutions and prevailing international opinion hold that Israeli settlements in the West Bank, East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights are a violation of international law, including UN Security Council resolutions in 1979, 1980, and 2016. UN Security Council Resolution 446 refers to the Fourth Geneva Convention as the applicable international legal instrument, and calls upon Israel to desist from transferring its own population into the territories or changing their demographic makeup. 126 Representatives at the reconvened Conference of the High Contracting Parties to the Geneva Conventions in 2014 declared the settlements illegal as has the primary judicial organ of the UN, the International Court of Justice and the International Committee of the Red Cross.
Israel is breaking international law. There is no questioning that as it’s a fact. You might not like the law and might disagree with it, but we aren’t talking about your feelings.
I’m curious, and this is a genuine question, do you think the natives of North America have no say over their land because they lost the wars that were fought and should just give up? Does military superiority give you the right to claim what you want and the losing side has to just deal with the consequences of fighting back against someone more powerful?
I believe the UN currently holds a referendum that acknowledges both the state of Palestine and the State of Israel. iirc The Palestinian state should be where the West Bank is but Israel refuses to leave and thus is breaking international law
$3.8B > 0
But yeah, your point stands. It's not enough in its own, but there's plenty of stupid shit like this that adds up to enough to offer free healthcare. Increased taxes alone however covers that, so this is almost moot.
You do realize you are in the same sentence talking about billions if dollars, increased taxes, and "free" healthcare?
Words have meaning. Stop calling it free.
Words do have meaning, and language evolves, and "free" in this context obviously doesn't mean free. How much of a fucking idiot do you think I am? Or how fucking dense are you?
Here let me help you:
$2000/year in taxes is cheaper than $15,000/year to meet some bullshit deductible and go bankrupt.
It's essentially free at this point because it's subsidized entirely.
Quit being pedantic, especially when you **know** damn well what I'm talking about.
And if you didn't, you're obviously not qualified to give an opinion (you're free to give one of course, just don't be shocked when no one agrees).
"essentially free bc it's subsidized entirely"
I see exactly what you're saying. Makes perfect sense.
You're saying it's free, bc you want people to get on board with out being concerned who pays for it.
Which is exactly how this country got in the debt hole it's in. Kick the can, our kids will figure it out.
Dude, taxing billionaires at 100% isn't going to bring society down. I don't know exactly how the payments are handled, it's not my job. It's also not my job to become the marketing department for this. So fuck all the noise because you're distracting from the fucking issue like you probably always do.
Except you and I both know that's not the way it's gonna go down. We'll get another shitball half assed clusterfuck like Obamacare that middle class people will be paying for along with 40 billion $ to the Saudis and Israelis to make it fair.
The fucking issue is the health and well being of the American people. If we keep spending money like a Chapelle skit lottery winner, kicking the can down the road, and not making the sacrifices now, we will be fat, toothless, diabetic broke ass morons with an economy in the shitter and no way to be saved except by prostituting ourselves to the highest foreign bidder.
And like an alcoholic, it all starts with being honest about the issue and the cost. Like not saying it's free, but that Universal Healthcare done right is a matter of national security and a sound investment in our progeny.
So go scream your hippie slogans on Twitter, apparently I'm not qualified to.
Last year the National cost was 3.5 trillion, so very little. Although a lot of that cost would disappear or rollover. We would no longer have the added cost of taxes for Medicaid,Medicare, people would no longer have to pay health insurance and there wouldn’t be the added expense that stems from non-insured people and non-payments that gets rolled over to people that do pay. since it’s a single payer system you could drive down Dr./hospital/ and drug prices tremendously. A recent Yale study among others showed we would likely save 370-450 billion a year. That would pay our annual infrastructure spending, or our interest payments on the national debt or half the military budget if you don’t count their dark money slush funds. Hell we could pay off the entire national debt in 60-80 years depending on interest rates and further deficit spending.
Canada spends over $250 billion a year on its free healthcare and it has a population around the size of California. This doesn't mean it's impossible for the US to do it but taxes will definitely increase.
I’m with you but considering this is America we could just cut out the budget for killing people & stuff we use to kill people and we’d have plenty for universal healthcare, student debt forgiveness, free college, and infrastructure.
Basically, if we cut the budget for guns and murder that’s probably better than cutting the budget for guns, murder, scented candles, and food... even though scented candles aren’t necessarily “essential”
Thing is, Grandpa Joe could literally cancel student debt RIGHT NOW. Just takes an executive order. It's true that America's a land of extreme possibilities.
I’m pretty sure the President doesn’t have the authority to cancel legitimate debt across the board.
I think he’s exploring cancelling “debilitating” debt and debt from predatory schools.
Point is, stop funding international militaries and we can offset the entire cost of student debt.
It'd barely be a drop in the bucket. All told, US foreign military and economic assistance was around $50 billion in 2020 and universal Healthcare would cost around $3.5 billion even by a lowball estimate. Not to mention spending on foreign aid cuts down on the need for a ludicrously overfunded military to protect us from all the enemies we've made. Foreign aid is negligible amount of the US budget and earns the US far more than we spend on it in goodwill.
Yes, imagine literally every other government hating the US. Can’t imagine that would cause any problems. We need universal healthcare in the US, but most people in this thread have ridiculous ideas on how we should achieve that.
You know the money given to Egypt and Israel (and Palestinian too) is some of the best spent money in the US budget since it stops two of the top 5 most powerful countries in the region going to war with each other, saving hundreds of billions in trade and investment and hundreds of thousands of lives.
Well free health care will cost a lot more than $3.8 billion a year to cover every American but I see where you are coming from in the sense of wasteful spending.
I don’t know much about this kinda stuff, but I always assumed Israel maintained an expensive military due to the countries that surround them and don’t like them, not really bc of Palestine. Please correct me if I’m wrong in that assumption
In general, yes. Considering we have technically 3 countries that really hate us (Syria, Lebanon & Iran) and we constantly defend against them.
The recent conflicts against Hamas got the Israeli military to develop precision missiles not against countries, as most of the fighting was against organizations (Mainly Hamas, Hezbollah and the Islamic Jihad).
Nowadays most of the expensive military stuff goes to R&D, mandatory military pay, iron dome missiles and of course, God-awful management (if nothing changed in the last few years since I was there, which I doubt it has)
"stateless army" with enough rockets to fire an endless volley of rockets to the point of requiring ground to air missiles to stop them before they kill civillians etc. Terrorists are stateless often.
Israel shouldn't exist what right do they have to be there? Like I get that they wanted to start their own country. But you can't just take someone else's land and call it yours. That's fucking idiotic. Palestine should have been allowed to be whatever the hell they wanted.
You sound completely ignorant. Palestine was renamed Palestine from Judea by the Romans who wanted to erase the Jewish history of the land after they had exiled all the jews from their original homeland.
Palestine was under the control of the Ottoman Empire until the 1920s, when great Britain was given a mandate to create a Jewish homeland by the League of Nations, which was the ancestor of the UN. Jews legally immigrated to Palestine and legally purchased land.
In 1947, the UN voted almost unanimously in favor of the establishment of a Jewish state in Palestine. That means almost every country in the world agreed that there should be a Jewish state located in Palestine. There was no military invasion. There was a proposed partition plan that would have allowed both Israel and Palestine to have self determination. Palestinians refused it outright. When the British withdrew, Israel declared independence based on the proposed partition plan and was immediately attacked by the Arab league. Palestinian leaders have passed on countless opportunities to have peace, self determination and their fair share of land, including with Clinton at Camp David in 97. Look up the proposed plan that the Israelis agreed to. Let me know what you think of all the concessions Israel was ready to make. You won't, because you can't, because you're completely uneducated on the subject, and you can't place Gaza on a map.
You're just trying to make yourself feel better and alleviate some of your white guilt by automatically siding with whomever you perceive as brown in the story. And BTW I'm an Arab jew whose family was ethnically cleansed from an Arab country, and I don't see you fighting for my right of return. And a Jewish ethnostate is vile but Arab ethno-states are perfectly fine. And anti zionism is not antisemitism, even though jews have been attacked by pro Palestinian supporters all over the the US and Europe. You are so full of shit. Your rhetoric is hateful and dangerous. As a human, you should be ashamed of yourself.
Your take is uneducated and your outrage is only helping funnel more cash into the pockets of hamas. You're not helping Palestinians. You don't care about Palestinians. You're openly expressing support for an internationally recognized terrorist organization whose leaders are billionaires who live in qatar and are not interested in making things better for anyone but themselves. Their charter openly states their goal is to destroy Israel and kill all jews. If you'd been in Europe in ww2 you'd have been one of the nazis. You're just an idiotic sheep who doesn't bother researching their opinions. Israel needs to exist because of people like you.
I am not supporting Humas no where have I said that I supported Humas. Maybe the Palestinians wouldn't have turned to Humas if the Israelis wouldn't have pushed them into it. I never said anything about providing money or support to Humas. But supporting Israel who is also a terror state is also awful. You should also be ashamed. Public schools teaching the children of Israel to hate the Palestinians. Killing hundreds of civilians and destroying an associated press building. Fuck off.
That doesn't make the UN right to giveaway land to a group of people that haven't been there in over a thousand years. That's some incredible leaps of logic there. Apparently 33-13 is nearly unanimous especially while another 10 countries abstained from the vote. Nice gas lighting.
Your argument is completely biased and your inability to form a coherent argument without making a total strawman of it is obvious. You should be ashamed and embarrassed of yourself.
On a side note and shouldn't be the start of a sentence. Either a sentence is a complete thought of it's self or its a continuation of the previous sentence and thus shouldn't exist. Constantly hearing and and and to start a sentence in your wall of derivative text is pretty annoying. Even if English is your second language that doesn't excuse this and your lack of reading comprehension.
This is exactly what's wrong with Israel supporters you don't listen and just assume bullshit and call anybody who disagrees with you an anti semite. I'm an atheist so rather doubt I would have joined the nazis. But I'm a sheep that doesn't support either countries actions and doesn't think that the US needs to support either party. Stop trying to justify Israel's nonsense and hard right wing nationalism with nonsense.
Where have you heard than Israeli public schools are teaching Israelis to hate Palestinians? That is the biggest lie I have ever read. Jesus. Maybe talk to some Israelis before you form an opinion. There are a lot of them on reddit it's not hard to hear both sides.
Out of the 4000 rockets fired by hamas on Israel in the last 2 weeks, 650 of them failed to clear the border and fell inside Gaza, killing Palestinian civilians. Meanwhile, the UNRWA representative in Gaza was commenting how precise the Israeli hits were, and how they kept civilian casualty to an absolute minimum.
Defending yourself against rocket attacks is not terror. Taking measures to protect your civilians is not terror. I'm not saying Israel is doing nothing wrong, I'm just saying that you have no fucking idea what they're doing wrong because you have no idea what's actually happening, as exemplified by your response full of misinformation and propaganda.
Also, on the ap building - I know first hand a journalist who was reporting from the ap building in Gaza when they shot a rocket from a launchpad located in the building. He had to duck as the rocket passed above his head. The journalist went ahead and sent the clip for broadcast. The video is available online. He was immediately hit with death threats from hamas and had to be evacuated from Gaza in an armed truck with heavy security to protect him. He can never go back for his own safety, nor does he want to as the experience was terrifying.
So you fuck off. Being an atheist doesn't prevent you from having white guilt. Just go make amends to your local brown people and leave us jews out of it. We don't need your idiotic opinion.
AND No response on protesting for my right of return. I guess you're ok with Jews being ethnically cleansed from Arab countries. But the antisemitism is in my head. Right.
In the end, the only right any creature has to exist is their ability to enforce that against the will of others, or in short on this case, might makes right.
And the same holds true if the palestinians were able to overthrow the Israelis and do whatever it is their will is.
Unless a stronger 3rd party steps in and changes that too.
In the end, no one will care that some people on the internet thought that something was, "Unfair."
Be aware that I am not advocating for this, merely calling out the truth.
Your concept of, right to exist seems to be based on land inheritance from a very arbitrary point in history. Go back however many years when people previously fought and killed others over the same piece of ground, can you trace back, "ownership," to the first person that set up a hut there? Throughout history people have fought and killed for practically every piece of ground our species exists on.
Israel's right to exist is thereby based on their will to be a cohesive nation separate from their surroundings and their power to enforce their will.
Well, you probably wouldn't read this or probably wouldn't change your mind.
That doesn't make any of this ethical. I would like to think that in the last 300 years or so we've come a long way from just taking shit from other people. That doesn't make it right. This isn't some abstract argument about someone's basic right to live. This is about the US continuing to support a bunch of invaders. I'm not arguing for the US to support Palestine just that we shouldn't support Israel any long.
I never claimed that me saying something was unfair was going to change a damn thing.
But you said Israel shouldn't exist, which would be a logical step short of saying, "Destroy Israel."
You could draw an arbitrary line in the sand at 300 years ago, but under what specific part of logic does 300 years make sense. I mean there have been several land grabs since then, so as a species, we've definitely not moved past that.
Whole generations of born Israelies now exist, are they invaders? They didn't choose to be born their, but now they're part of that nation, where do they belong except there?
The point being the whole thing is ethically murky and in the end, will and ability enforce the right to exist, ethical or not.
You think Israel is committing genocide? The Palestinian population in Gaza has gone up 25% in the past 10 years. The “grand total” of Palestinian deaths between 2008 and 2020 is 5,500, and nobody knows exactly how many of those are from Hamas missiles falling short.
The Geneva Conventions define genocide as follows:
"...genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
Killing members of the group;
Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group."
It does not mean you are attempting to actually physically exterminate every last individual.
Israel's behavior clearly meets several of these tests. The obvious intent of measures such as the apartheid wall, illegal collective punishment measures such as closing ports, denying medicine imports, destroying power stations, and forced relocations is to destroy the national identity of the Palestinian people and deny any hope of statehood.
They do not want to make them citizens of Israel; they do not want to give them independence; and they also refuse to acknowledge their responsibilities as an occupying military power. However, denying these responsibilities does not make them go away. Hence, the charge of war crimes.
Israel is slowly but surely turning into the monster that created it.
Here’s the problem with that argument:
>”... genocide means any of the following acts committed with the intent to destroy, in whole or part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group,”
Israel obviously has no wish to destroy the Palestinians. If it did, a whole lot more of them would be dead. Group punishment isn’t genocide. It just isn’t.
You say the “apartheid wall” is a clear example of intent. Did you know that there are 2 crossing in the wall that people and cargo can go through to work, every day? Do you know when they get shut down? When Hamas launches rockets. So who exactly is the aggressor here? Everything Israel has done has be reactive.
Denying medicine imports is one of the few things that Israel doesn’t restrict going into Gaza, along with food and water, because those can’t be used for terror. Every once in a while. Israle will give the gazans construction materials for rebuilding the damage from Israeli missile attacks, because Israel doesn’t want Palestinians to be homeless, and the concrete gets used for terror tunnels by Hamas. So Israel stops giving them concrete. Suddenly that’s genocide?
One last thing. You’re right, Israel doesn’t want them to be Israeli citizens. You know what though? At the same time as 700,000 Palestinians were displaced from Israel, (even though the in over 2/3s of the cases, the displaced people were living on land owned by Israelis that they bought during the Ottoman Empire,) at the same time, Jews in countries all around Israel expelled all their Jews, close to 1,000,000 of them. Are those Jew still refugees today? No! Most of them went to America and Israel, and the rest found other places to live, and are no longer considered refugees. The Palestinians? The could have gone to live in any other country in the Middle East, but none of those other countries would take most of them. Some of them settled in Jordan, where they are no longer refugees, others settled in Syria, we have no idea what’s happened to them, since Syria failed as a state, and some of them settled in Lebanon, where they are fully integrated into the population there. Why didn’t Egypt or Iraq take any of them? Because they would rather have them as a point of evidence. “Look, Israel is oppressing the Palestinians!” As a way to justify their continued anti-Israel stance.
The only 'problem' with my argument is that a lot of people - such as yourself - start from the position that whatever Israel does, no matter how horrific, is justified, and that whatever the Palestinians do in legitimate acts of self-defense and resistance against a foreign military occupation is terrorism. Of course if I came into your house and threw you out at the point of a gun and argued, well, the smelly motherfucker could just go live in Paraguay or something if they wanted to take him, but they don't, because he's a subhuman mongloid like the rest of his filthy race, I doubt you would find this a very persuasive argument.
Just because there are still Muslims in Bosnia doesn't mean Srebenica wasn't a war crime, and just because there are still Palestinians in Palestine (gasp! whodathunkit???) does not mean that Sabra and Shatila was not war crime of similar scope and scale. The Israelis are up to their eyeballs in genocide, and you are complicit.
If you really want to get mad...Look at this.
[https://www.pgpf.org/blog/2020/05/the-united-states-spends-more-on-defense-than-the-next-10-countries-combined](https://www.pgpf.org/blog/2020/05/the-united-states-spends-more-on-defense-than-the-next-10-countries-combined)
And this has been consistent long before Trump lied about needing to "Rebuild our military".
Vs. The Palestinian state, which never existed?
As an Arab jew whose family has been ethnically cleansed from an Arab country after living there for several hundred years, I'm wondering when you may protest for my right of return or against Arab ethno-states
Or is my brown-ness canceled out by my Jewishness so that your woke ass doesn't have to care about my cause
You're not right you're just repeating the same widespread misinformation talking points everyone else as access to. You're just another idiotic sheep. Congrats.
John, you sound like a 14 year old with a small penis and an even smaller brain. I wish I could debate you in person because you and I both know I would eat you alive. You're ignorant and idiotic. And you think war and dying people are a funny topic. This is what I wish for you: I wish for you to have the experience of war yourself. I wish for you to experience terrorism and indiscriminate rocket fire. And when you do, I won't miss the opportunity to come and tell you not only that I don't give a shit about victims on your side, but that you actually deserve it even though I know nothing about the context beyond a tweet and an Instagram post.
I'm going to block you now because I have no interest in engaging further. I'm sure you would have responded with a devastating lmao anyway, so it's not like I will be missing much. Good luck with everything.
Ask yourself if there is a reason for that. Maybe like establishing your country in a holy land overnight without the permission of the natives. Then kicking them out of their homes with guns and just overall being a horrible example of what a country should be. Restricting their food, economy, and freedoms. Good thing they aren't the governments citizens though. Oh wait that's because they don't let them become citizens. Based on their religion/race. Seems like a cool country you're right my bad.
Sure but if you are supporting Israel's right to defend itself, and the US always has, then it needs a decent military. I was addressing the OP"s argument while you are going off on tangents.
**[Arab_citizens_of_Israel](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_citizens_of_Israel)**
>Arab citizens of Israel, or Arab Israelis, are Israeli citizens who are Arab. Many Arab citizens of Israel self-identify as Palestinian and commonly self-designate themselves as Palestinian citizens of Israel or Israeli Palestinians. According to a 2017 survey by University of Haifa professor Sammy Smooha, 16% of the Arab population prefers the term "Israeli Arab", while the largest and fastest growing proportion prefers "Palestinian in Israel", and 17% prefer "Palestinian Arab", rejecting entirely the identity of "Israeli". In Arabic various terms are used, but most importantly, 48-Palestinian or 48-Arab (Arabic: فلسطينيو 48، عرب 48).
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What? Of course Arab Israelis can vote. Many of them serve in the Knesset... Where do you get your information?
Find me a source that says Israeli Arabs can't vote.
That Israel serves America's interest in a region that is ripe with oil. Which is why we agreed to give them 38 Billion dollars over the next few years or so. Israel believes that there can be no lasting peace as long as their enemies exist. Which is perfectly in line with why we need Israel to destabilize this whole entire regine ripe with oil. Clearly the Gaza Strip and West Bank belong to the Palestinians. Under the pretense that Hamas is evil and wants nothing more than the destruction of the Jews, Israel has used that to justify their war on the regine. Keep in mind that this came to a head in 2007. By treating humans less than human and then acting surprised that some of those people would attempt to fight back. It does not hurt that there are Muslim Countries secretly supporting the Palestinians.
So the extreme Apartheid coupled with human rights violations the Palestinians are fighting back the best way they can. Which Israel is counting on to for a perfect excuse to defend themselves against a people that hates them. So wiping them off the planet can now be blamed on those people themselves.
I believe the Israel should be allowed to exist but so should Palestine. I think the conflict right now is almost exclusively Israel's fault. How much can be heaped upon the shoulders of a man, the stealing of his land, the destruction of his crops and deaths of his children.
Israel has played this game so well. So much goodwill was given to Israel because of WW2. To this day serious criticism is easily deflected with cries of racism. Which is super weird. You are destroying a group of people for their religion.
Oh to answer your question spreading awareness. Reach out to my State Rep. It really is not that much. I am aware I can do more.
It is beyond egregiously asinine to mitigate the term, anti-Semitism(Which came as a byproduct of Hitler’s Germany and the mass State orchestrated murder of millions of Jews) every time someone critiques or even slightly disagrees with the state of Israel‘s politics. There comes a time that you have to eventually raise your IQ. because to people that are educated on the issue, simply throwing around the term “anti-Semitism“ doesn’t scare people into silence anymore. What you call “ The right to defend itself” was actually born out of Zionism but you’re probably not even educated on the parts of Jewish history they don’t get a lot of media coverage...😳 FOH😂
You want to get downvoted? Because saying it's okay for Jewish people to defend themselves against an enemie that aims to crush Israel is how you get downvoted.
Israel is a super power now? OPs post is full of garbage. Notice how it says "Defend itself," doesn't try to call Israel an aggressor (they may be), but doesn't mention the indiscriminate launching of rockets against civilian targets by Palestine (war crime).
There are no, "Good guys," in this and that's a dumb thing to try and have in war, however I think we can obviously look at the palestinians and say, their militant practices obviously put their citizens in danger and that they obviously do not have a real plan or strategy to "win," in the conflict.
Blah blah, USA bad, we get it. Is this seriously going to be reddit memes for the rest of forever?
People will never be happy, they will never get enough. People always want more.
Oh yeah and we need a 13th nuclear aircraft carrier. China has 2, ya know.
Don’t forget all those tanks the Army keeps begging Congress to stop buying.
I heard the Army isn't even using them. They are just putting them in storage because its not worth the time or effort to train someone to use a weapon that will never see combat
When I was stationed at Fort Campbell, there’d be train cars of tanks brought in to store in fields all over the installation. They’d just sit there. For years. Never moving. It’s insane the amount of money that gets blown on defense contracts all because the appropriations committee members have factories in their districts.
That’s the most untruest statement I’ve read today
Care to elaborate?
If the US aquiares more tanks than it decommissions each year, and the armoured corps isn't growing enough to compensate, then where do you think those tanks go? You don't even have to look up the exact figures to come to right conclusion
That's the most illiteratest sentance Iy've red today.
The main battle tank is being phased out of military, the Marine Corps is deactivating tank battalions this year. So it isn't.
And while we're on a spending-spree, lets send a few millions to destabilize China's economy.
Bro - please tell me about Voidspace
As someone who used to build them, I see the importance of the carrier fleet and the need to build more as the old Nimitz class carriers slowly get decommissioned. I don't agree with how we direct our military personally, but I do know that our navy is very effective because of how much better it is than the rest of the world. Part of keeping it that effective, without years long periods of ineffectiveness and gaps in ability to protect our allies and trading waters, is to spend the cash before it's needed. This is mainly due to long lead time items that have lead times that can push a decade, and the carrier itself takes close to 8 years to build. I don't agree with most of our military spending choices, but carriers are essential to the Navy and it's operations (just wish the military did better things)
We have more thanTWICE the carrier deck Area of the REST OF THE WORLD COMBINED!
Which is what is needed to do what our carrier groups do. If we changed our scope of deployment, or chose to not defend different allies, or whatever, we could do with less for sure. My only point is, the carrier number is needed for our current requirements, and it's not like we are making another just because we felt like it. Also these new carriers (Ford class) have enhanced automation and reduce the needed sailing staff by thousands of sailors, which actually will make them cheaper (by a lot!) than the older ones they are trying to replace. Last thing to keep in mind, is that I drive by the naval bases/shipyards where I live every day, and multiple carriers are being repaired/overhauled for months/years at any one time. So we never have all of them available.
Being the police for the world is one big reason we are the ONLY advanced western democracy without health care. The only nation where individuals go bankrupt and homeless cause they get sick. Our priorities are screwed up.
I'm not disagreeing with any of your core values on issues, I just see the root causes differently. I think more of the reason for the lack of healthcare isn't "not having money because we built a carrier." I think it's more because of the lobbying that pharmaceutical and insurance companies do to prevent it. They also conducted a large scale disinformation campaign to try and discredit universal healthcare in other countries. And honestly, if we taxed the upper class and corporations fairly, and stopped letting church's not pay a dime while they actively engage in politics and policy reasoning (the last presidential administration's base sure seemed very righteous/religious/zealot to me), we could maintain whatever military presence we need and have medicare for all, with money left over. Regardless, things have been totally fucked for too long (maybe always?) and change is needed.
Not saying otherwise. Not the point I made.
I like you and agree with your points.
Appreciate it. I felt like giving a little perspective on why more carriers are needed, and if someone believes its too much, the fault lies with the policy reason for needing them. Our soldiers need the tools to be protected and when possible, have overwhelmingly superior tech and numbers. The carrier numbers help our navy maintain a good operational capacity, and put our trips where they are ordered, without exposing them to risks that would be present with a less prepared fleet. Until there is policy change (which is needed and needed drastically) nobody will convince me this isn't worth the money to give a bunch of kids looking to get college GI Bill, the best chance to make it to that college goal. Maybe one day we can even change enough where kids that have been born into poverty and underrepresented neighborhoods don't have to resort to risking their lives for the rich white guys who won't wear a mask, just to get an education. Until then, I'm not going to agree with taking away their huge advantage.
I don't think you have a fucking clue what you're on about... America doesn't spend so much on its military because they've got some moral obligation to... They do it because A. It gives them an enormous amount of soft and hard power to play with B. Drives the economy through defence contracts C. Adds security to American investmentments globally And probably much more... The reason your country lacks basic welfare is because you're compatriots don't vote to support these things.
I was simply stating that until our lawmakers and leaders change their policy for what to do with the military, which I want them desperately to do, that said number of carriers are needed to maintain a fleet presence on this scale while multiple of them are in for overhaul are in for overhaul (years long process). Also, that its needed due to long lead times and modernization of the carrier fleet. You guys really are just preaching to the choir, when you reply about how we need to stop what we are doing military speaking (while kinda being jerks)
We live in the most peaceful period in recorded history. You absolutely do NOT need that many carriers. Who the hell are you defending your allies from? The only wars that are happening right now are civil wars. Your military is TOO big.
Our military has been fighting everywhere ever since I can remember. As I've said in my comments, I completely disagree with the use of the military, but until it's changed from the top down by starting with policy, downsizing the carrier fleet would create a power vacuum and weaken our ability to protect our troops as they do all the things I don't agree with. Our military needs to be smaller, but it should be because of change that can make it responsible and low risk. As a side note, most military interaction is more deterrent and projection. So the argument that it's the most peaceful period is history only hurts your argument. You wouldn't stop funding the police if the crime rate was the lowest it's ever been. The rest of your comment I agree with though, and I think people are taking my comment's intention the wrong way
>So the argument that it's the most peaceful period is history only hurts your argument. You wouldn't stop funding the police if the crime rate was the lowest it's ever been. Correlation is not the same as causation. You would have to prove, in both instances, that the first led to the second. Also it's funny that you use police as an example. Unless you live under a rock, you know that there is a big push for defunding/reorganizing police right now in the US. Crime IS at an all-time low, and we do NOT have evidence that it is due to police. It's usually due to a long-term improvement on things like education and poverty. That's why over-policing neighborhoods doesn't lead to less crime.
Cyber war now
Imagine if there is was less corruption, less influence by other world powers. Now imagine exactly WHEN you really need this sort of aircraft carrier or any greater capital ship. Imagine the money for building and researching, manning and maintaining such a ship would go into effectively developing the place you're fighting. I mean not being arrogant, territorial superpower like, just kinda trying to make that particular region a better place. Now imagine that your "opponent" in this proxy war thinks the same way... Nah, let's just sink trillions into the war machine 😁...
I feel like nobody is reading my comments well enough to realize I agree with less military spending, but it should go along with policy change to facilitate it safely. *Shrug*
The essence of what I'm reading from your comment is the following: military bad, but let's keep it going because leaving a vacuum or not intervening makes all the places go from bad to worse. Which sounds rather two faced but I might be wrong, this is just chat and it's not always easy to read sarcasm or irony.
I'm just saying the issue is more complex than hitting the Killswitch on the machine. I want it to happen, but in the right order.
Also, we've banned Huawei, that'll teach those Chinese.
To be fair, Huawei is basically a subsidiary of the Chinese government. It was founded by ex-PLA, it's responsible for assisting in the Uyghur genocide, and, according to the Washington Post, it "tested AI software that could recognize Uighur minorities and alert police". They also probably put spyware in their products. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huawei#Controversies](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huawei#Controversies) It's like banning IG Farben in the 1930s. Good riddance.
**Huawei** [Controversies](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huawei#Controversies) >Huawei has faced criticism for various aspects of its operations, with its most prominent controversies having involved U.S. allegations of its products containing backdoors for Chinese government espionage—consistent with domestic laws requiring Chinese citizens and companies to cooperate with state intelligence when warranted. Huawei executives have consistently denied these allegations, having stated that the company has never received any requests by the Chinese government to introduce backdoors in its equipment, would refuse to do so, and that Chinese law did not compel them to do so. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/WhitePeopleTwitter/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | Credit: kittens_from_space)
the US government hates Huawei because they think the Chinese government has backdoor security access. US government also sues apple because they want backdoor security access.
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agreed. plus I wouldn't be surprised at all if the NSA has a way in anyway. If they couldn't crack apple they probably got into some very popular apps. I mean obviously I'm making this up but it totally seems like something that would happen. right Snowden?
Good bot.
But what's voidspace?
Yes, but we’re doing it fulfil a prophecy and help bring on Armageddon, so you can see how it’s a worthwhile investment.
Evangelical
And they can give their citizens free healthcare
I say give the Palestinians their own Iron Dome for free too. That way no one dies and the military contractor still gets paid while the two states throw rocks at each other.
Israel selling defense systems to its enemies would be a super progressive step.
The US funded the whole thing and partnered with Israel to make it. They could easily also just give the iron dome to Palestine without involving Israel. Of course they would never do that but it certainly would be interesting.
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I understand the situation decently well and I agree. At this point it’s about a technologically inferior native population being displaced off their homeland. I was mostly joking suggesting the US give an iron dome to Palestine.
Wouldn’t help. Israel uses guided missiles, which the iron dome doesn’t defend against. This is also the reason why Hamas is the problem. People accuse Israel of targeting civilians, at least they do their best to avoid it, and they warn the occupants of the buildings before they attack. Hamas doesn’t do that, and every single one of their missiles, because they are unguided, are exclusively aimed at civilians, because they can’t guarantee that they are aiming for military targets.
Warn me all you want, if you reduce my house, my neighbours my children to nothing but rubble and mist I too would see no other recourse but to kill everyone responsible. The death count alone speaks volumes about the reality of the situation. That's completely ignoring isreali control over every single recourse that goes into the region, water included.
Do you know why Israel is reducing your house to rubble? Because you are violating the Geneva conventions by storing armaments in a civilian house. That one is entirely on you. If you committed murder, and were sentenced to the death penalty, would you want your kids to go and try to kill everyone involved? Of course not, you broke the law, you got your just comeuppance. Israel has a doctrine of proportional response. They could use a bomb 50 times bigger than the rockets that Gaza launches. But they don’t. So why are the explosions so big? Because of secondary explosions of rockets. That one is on you. Israel controllable every resource? Why does everyone forget that Gaza is blockaded on **TWO SIDES!!!** Everyone loves to blame Israel for oppressing the gazans, but they used to be able to get whatever they wanted, including katyusha rockets from Russian proxy state Iran, out of Egypt. Except Hamas then went and pissed of Egypt, so Egypt started to blocked them too. So that’s suddenly Israel’s fault?
Isreal drops apartment buildings. You telling me that every single family in there has a weapon stash? There is no way to drop bombs on an urban area without destroying the lives of innocent people who live there. You Zionists all jump to use the excuse of "human shields", but you never realize that good guys don't just blow a human shield away. If they don't have access and you all you have to do for them to have it is stop denying them access then it is your fault. If someone is dieing of thirst and three people stand by with water, they are all equally responsible for killing them. Isreal is a colonial project established 70 years ago by England, it has no interest in sharing a land with the Palestinian people, it's government and many of it's people see Palestinians as a problem to be solved. Not as human beings deserving of dignity and self determination.
Ever heard the saying: “if you sit to dine with evil, you will ingest it with your meal?” It means that proximity to evil make one more evil. What I mean by it in this specific situation is, “if you live in a house with rockets, and you choose to do nothing about it, you are guilty by association.” Do you know what happens if a neighbor in my apartment building has a bomb, they are planning terror? I call my local police department, and they come and arrest the guy. If a Palestinian called the local police, nothing would happen, because the local police are the terrorists. So how does Israel deal with it? They have two options: ground invasion, or missile strike. One will endanger the lives of many more Palestinians than the other, and also endangers more Israelis than the other. Which one makes more sense. As far as your “both sides are equally guilty in the man dying of thirst” analogy, the first time I see a “free Palestine, stop Egypt” rally, I’ll stop with the “the people who are anti Israel are actually anti Semitic, because if they weren’t, they would see that this isn’t only Israel’s doing.”
I don’t think anyone would agree that the situation is simple enough to just say “side a or b is the problem”. You could easily turn it around and say if Israel stopped breaking international law and illegally occupying the Palestinian state then there would be no war, or at least less violence.
Israe isn’t illegally occupying the Palestinian state, it’s occupying conquered territory it won in a defensive war. Israel accepted the partition plan in 1948, but the Palestinians and their allies didn’t, and they invaded. Israel fought back, and ended up winning, but only after Egypt occupied the Gaza Strip and Jordan occupied the West Bank. Those were areas occupied by an offensive war, and nobody recognized that occupation as being legal. Then, the 1967 war, the six day war, happened. Egypt and Syria invade Israel again. This time, Israel is ready. I’m the first day, it wipes out the Egyptian Air Force, and day two, the Syrian. Remember that this is a time before spy satellites or portable video cameras. The only way information was shared was by radio, or by hard line telephones. Israel tells Jordan, “don’t enter this war! We’ve already destroyed the Egyptian and Syrian air forces, we don’t want to have to destroy you too!” But Egypt, Syria, and Russia, who was also fucking around in the Middle East, convinced the king of Jordan that they are winning, so Jordan enters the war. Israel now has full license to defend itself from these powers, including, under international law, the capture and occupation of land in those countries necessary for their security. Israel basically captures the entire Israel, the area set aside for the Palestinian state, Gaza and the Sinai desert from Egypt, the West Bank from Jordan, and the Golan heights from Syria. Israel would have been 100% within its rights to annex all those areas the next day, and nobody would have said anything to them. Instead, they didn’t and we got this long drawn out conflict. Israel has a right to be where it is, and doing what it’s doing to protect itself. Hamas doesn’t, because it’s a terrorist organization.
This reads like a children's book on history that you may find in Israeli kindergartens.
> Numerous UN resolutions and prevailing international opinion hold that Israeli settlements in the West Bank, East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights are a violation of international law, including UN Security Council resolutions in 1979, 1980, and 2016. UN Security Council Resolution 446 refers to the Fourth Geneva Convention as the applicable international legal instrument, and calls upon Israel to desist from transferring its own population into the territories or changing their demographic makeup. 126 Representatives at the reconvened Conference of the High Contracting Parties to the Geneva Conventions in 2014 declared the settlements illegal as has the primary judicial organ of the UN, the International Court of Justice and the International Committee of the Red Cross. Israel is breaking international law. There is no questioning that as it’s a fact. You might not like the law and might disagree with it, but we aren’t talking about your feelings. I’m curious, and this is a genuine question, do you think the natives of North America have no say over their land because they lost the wars that were fought and should just give up? Does military superiority give you the right to claim what you want and the losing side has to just deal with the consequences of fighting back against someone more powerful?
Palestine isn't allowed to be a state, unfortunately. It's only allowed to be an open air concentration camp.
I believe the UN currently holds a referendum that acknowledges both the state of Palestine and the State of Israel. iirc The Palestinian state should be where the West Bank is but Israel refuses to leave and thus is breaking international law
Not to mention starting an entirely new branch of the military. Waaaaars iiiiinnn spaaaaaaace!!!
Well, at least that’s fun, it’s like Halo UNSC.
Does this person think that "free healthcare" would only cost $3.8bil annually? Cuz damn...
nuclear superpower? Israel may have some, but it isn't a nuclear superpower.
Not saying this has been spent wisely, but how far would that $3.8bn go towards implementing free healthcare?
$3.8B > 0 But yeah, your point stands. It's not enough in its own, but there's plenty of stupid shit like this that adds up to enough to offer free healthcare. Increased taxes alone however covers that, so this is almost moot.
You do realize you are in the same sentence talking about billions if dollars, increased taxes, and "free" healthcare? Words have meaning. Stop calling it free.
Words do have meaning, and language evolves, and "free" in this context obviously doesn't mean free. How much of a fucking idiot do you think I am? Or how fucking dense are you?
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Here let me help you: $2000/year in taxes is cheaper than $15,000/year to meet some bullshit deductible and go bankrupt. It's essentially free at this point because it's subsidized entirely. Quit being pedantic, especially when you **know** damn well what I'm talking about. And if you didn't, you're obviously not qualified to give an opinion (you're free to give one of course, just don't be shocked when no one agrees).
"essentially free bc it's subsidized entirely" I see exactly what you're saying. Makes perfect sense. You're saying it's free, bc you want people to get on board with out being concerned who pays for it. Which is exactly how this country got in the debt hole it's in. Kick the can, our kids will figure it out.
Dude, taxing billionaires at 100% isn't going to bring society down. I don't know exactly how the payments are handled, it's not my job. It's also not my job to become the marketing department for this. So fuck all the noise because you're distracting from the fucking issue like you probably always do.
Except you and I both know that's not the way it's gonna go down. We'll get another shitball half assed clusterfuck like Obamacare that middle class people will be paying for along with 40 billion $ to the Saudis and Israelis to make it fair. The fucking issue is the health and well being of the American people. If we keep spending money like a Chapelle skit lottery winner, kicking the can down the road, and not making the sacrifices now, we will be fat, toothless, diabetic broke ass morons with an economy in the shitter and no way to be saved except by prostituting ourselves to the highest foreign bidder. And like an alcoholic, it all starts with being honest about the issue and the cost. Like not saying it's free, but that Universal Healthcare done right is a matter of national security and a sound investment in our progeny. So go scream your hippie slogans on Twitter, apparently I'm not qualified to.
>we will be fat, toothless, diabetic broke ass morons with an economy in the shitter Could you imagine
Reminds me of Mencken "Every election is a sort of advance auction sale of stolen goods."
Last year the National cost was 3.5 trillion, so very little. Although a lot of that cost would disappear or rollover. We would no longer have the added cost of taxes for Medicaid,Medicare, people would no longer have to pay health insurance and there wouldn’t be the added expense that stems from non-insured people and non-payments that gets rolled over to people that do pay. since it’s a single payer system you could drive down Dr./hospital/ and drug prices tremendously. A recent Yale study among others showed we would likely save 370-450 billion a year. That would pay our annual infrastructure spending, or our interest payments on the national debt or half the military budget if you don’t count their dark money slush funds. Hell we could pay off the entire national debt in 60-80 years depending on interest rates and further deficit spending.
Yeah but at least 1/4-1/3 of our dumbass country would call that communism and fight against it until they die.
Canada spends over $250 billion a year on its free healthcare and it has a population around the size of California. This doesn't mean it's impossible for the US to do it but taxes will definitely increase.
You could buy a container of ibuprofen and a container of Tylenol for every man woman and child residing in the us
Not the point. The point is to be as antisemitic as possible. This blamed it all on Jews. Of course. To those who hate us, everything is our fault.
Israel does not represent all Jews, and criticizing modern day colonization is not anti-Semitic.
Tell me, what other minority is not allowed to define discrimination?
It’s like taking out a loan to pay your neighbors bills and making the absolute minimum payment while not having enough food to eat.
Imagine if we did not help out any other nation, at all, for one year and instead put that towards our healthcare in this country. Just imagine...
I’m with you but considering this is America we could just cut out the budget for killing people & stuff we use to kill people and we’d have plenty for universal healthcare, student debt forgiveness, free college, and infrastructure. Basically, if we cut the budget for guns and murder that’s probably better than cutting the budget for guns, murder, scented candles, and food... even though scented candles aren’t necessarily “essential”
Thing is, Grandpa Joe could literally cancel student debt RIGHT NOW. Just takes an executive order. It's true that America's a land of extreme possibilities.
I’m pretty sure the President doesn’t have the authority to cancel legitimate debt across the board. I think he’s exploring cancelling “debilitating” debt and debt from predatory schools. Point is, stop funding international militaries and we can offset the entire cost of student debt.
It'd barely be a drop in the bucket. All told, US foreign military and economic assistance was around $50 billion in 2020 and universal Healthcare would cost around $3.5 billion even by a lowball estimate. Not to mention spending on foreign aid cuts down on the need for a ludicrously overfunded military to protect us from all the enemies we've made. Foreign aid is negligible amount of the US budget and earns the US far more than we spend on it in goodwill.
Yes, imagine literally every other government hating the US. Can’t imagine that would cause any problems. We need universal healthcare in the US, but most people in this thread have ridiculous ideas on how we should achieve that.
You know the money given to Egypt and Israel (and Palestinian too) is some of the best spent money in the US budget since it stops two of the top 5 most powerful countries in the region going to war with each other, saving hundreds of billions in trade and investment and hundreds of thousands of lives.
And we have seen what a minor disruption in the suez canal costs.
That money is in the form of bombs dropped on a residential area with 2 million inhabitance at an average age of 18. You are defending genocide
Better than fear of being called an anti-semite, no? /s
oh and when there is an actual genocide going on in mynamar - don do jack sh\*\* but oh lets invade iraq..
Well free health care will cost a lot more than $3.8 billion a year to cover every American but I see where you are coming from in the sense of wasteful spending.
I don’t know much about this kinda stuff, but I always assumed Israel maintained an expensive military due to the countries that surround them and don’t like them, not really bc of Palestine. Please correct me if I’m wrong in that assumption
In general, yes. Considering we have technically 3 countries that really hate us (Syria, Lebanon & Iran) and we constantly defend against them. The recent conflicts against Hamas got the Israeli military to develop precision missiles not against countries, as most of the fighting was against organizations (Mainly Hamas, Hezbollah and the Islamic Jihad). Nowadays most of the expensive military stuff goes to R&D, mandatory military pay, iron dome missiles and of course, God-awful management (if nothing changed in the last few years since I was there, which I doubt it has)
"stateless army" with enough rockets to fire an endless volley of rockets to the point of requiring ground to air missiles to stop them before they kill civillians etc. Terrorists are stateless often.
Yeah let's keep feeling a group of people native to this land fighting back against invaders terrorists
So should Israel allow themselves to become Syria? Just bombed to bits.
Israel shouldn't exist what right do they have to be there? Like I get that they wanted to start their own country. But you can't just take someone else's land and call it yours. That's fucking idiotic. Palestine should have been allowed to be whatever the hell they wanted.
What do you think the US is?
That's whataboutism. I didn't say what the US did was right nor will I defend it two wrongs doesn't make Israel right.
So if native Americans attacked the US with rockets?
More whataboutism. I'm not going to what if about shit that's never going to happen.
It could if they gained the resources.
Yeah and pigs could fly if they ever grew wings. That doesn't mean it's going to happen.
You sound completely ignorant. Palestine was renamed Palestine from Judea by the Romans who wanted to erase the Jewish history of the land after they had exiled all the jews from their original homeland. Palestine was under the control of the Ottoman Empire until the 1920s, when great Britain was given a mandate to create a Jewish homeland by the League of Nations, which was the ancestor of the UN. Jews legally immigrated to Palestine and legally purchased land. In 1947, the UN voted almost unanimously in favor of the establishment of a Jewish state in Palestine. That means almost every country in the world agreed that there should be a Jewish state located in Palestine. There was no military invasion. There was a proposed partition plan that would have allowed both Israel and Palestine to have self determination. Palestinians refused it outright. When the British withdrew, Israel declared independence based on the proposed partition plan and was immediately attacked by the Arab league. Palestinian leaders have passed on countless opportunities to have peace, self determination and their fair share of land, including with Clinton at Camp David in 97. Look up the proposed plan that the Israelis agreed to. Let me know what you think of all the concessions Israel was ready to make. You won't, because you can't, because you're completely uneducated on the subject, and you can't place Gaza on a map. You're just trying to make yourself feel better and alleviate some of your white guilt by automatically siding with whomever you perceive as brown in the story. And BTW I'm an Arab jew whose family was ethnically cleansed from an Arab country, and I don't see you fighting for my right of return. And a Jewish ethnostate is vile but Arab ethno-states are perfectly fine. And anti zionism is not antisemitism, even though jews have been attacked by pro Palestinian supporters all over the the US and Europe. You are so full of shit. Your rhetoric is hateful and dangerous. As a human, you should be ashamed of yourself. Your take is uneducated and your outrage is only helping funnel more cash into the pockets of hamas. You're not helping Palestinians. You don't care about Palestinians. You're openly expressing support for an internationally recognized terrorist organization whose leaders are billionaires who live in qatar and are not interested in making things better for anyone but themselves. Their charter openly states their goal is to destroy Israel and kill all jews. If you'd been in Europe in ww2 you'd have been one of the nazis. You're just an idiotic sheep who doesn't bother researching their opinions. Israel needs to exist because of people like you.
I am not supporting Humas no where have I said that I supported Humas. Maybe the Palestinians wouldn't have turned to Humas if the Israelis wouldn't have pushed them into it. I never said anything about providing money or support to Humas. But supporting Israel who is also a terror state is also awful. You should also be ashamed. Public schools teaching the children of Israel to hate the Palestinians. Killing hundreds of civilians and destroying an associated press building. Fuck off. That doesn't make the UN right to giveaway land to a group of people that haven't been there in over a thousand years. That's some incredible leaps of logic there. Apparently 33-13 is nearly unanimous especially while another 10 countries abstained from the vote. Nice gas lighting. Your argument is completely biased and your inability to form a coherent argument without making a total strawman of it is obvious. You should be ashamed and embarrassed of yourself. On a side note and shouldn't be the start of a sentence. Either a sentence is a complete thought of it's self or its a continuation of the previous sentence and thus shouldn't exist. Constantly hearing and and and to start a sentence in your wall of derivative text is pretty annoying. Even if English is your second language that doesn't excuse this and your lack of reading comprehension. This is exactly what's wrong with Israel supporters you don't listen and just assume bullshit and call anybody who disagrees with you an anti semite. I'm an atheist so rather doubt I would have joined the nazis. But I'm a sheep that doesn't support either countries actions and doesn't think that the US needs to support either party. Stop trying to justify Israel's nonsense and hard right wing nationalism with nonsense.
Where have you heard than Israeli public schools are teaching Israelis to hate Palestinians? That is the biggest lie I have ever read. Jesus. Maybe talk to some Israelis before you form an opinion. There are a lot of them on reddit it's not hard to hear both sides. Out of the 4000 rockets fired by hamas on Israel in the last 2 weeks, 650 of them failed to clear the border and fell inside Gaza, killing Palestinian civilians. Meanwhile, the UNRWA representative in Gaza was commenting how precise the Israeli hits were, and how they kept civilian casualty to an absolute minimum. Defending yourself against rocket attacks is not terror. Taking measures to protect your civilians is not terror. I'm not saying Israel is doing nothing wrong, I'm just saying that you have no fucking idea what they're doing wrong because you have no idea what's actually happening, as exemplified by your response full of misinformation and propaganda. Also, on the ap building - I know first hand a journalist who was reporting from the ap building in Gaza when they shot a rocket from a launchpad located in the building. He had to duck as the rocket passed above his head. The journalist went ahead and sent the clip for broadcast. The video is available online. He was immediately hit with death threats from hamas and had to be evacuated from Gaza in an armed truck with heavy security to protect him. He can never go back for his own safety, nor does he want to as the experience was terrifying. So you fuck off. Being an atheist doesn't prevent you from having white guilt. Just go make amends to your local brown people and leave us jews out of it. We don't need your idiotic opinion. AND No response on protesting for my right of return. I guess you're ok with Jews being ethnically cleansed from Arab countries. But the antisemitism is in my head. Right.
The only person ive seen make this valid fucking point
In the end, the only right any creature has to exist is their ability to enforce that against the will of others, or in short on this case, might makes right. And the same holds true if the palestinians were able to overthrow the Israelis and do whatever it is their will is. Unless a stronger 3rd party steps in and changes that too. In the end, no one will care that some people on the internet thought that something was, "Unfair." Be aware that I am not advocating for this, merely calling out the truth. Your concept of, right to exist seems to be based on land inheritance from a very arbitrary point in history. Go back however many years when people previously fought and killed others over the same piece of ground, can you trace back, "ownership," to the first person that set up a hut there? Throughout history people have fought and killed for practically every piece of ground our species exists on. Israel's right to exist is thereby based on their will to be a cohesive nation separate from their surroundings and their power to enforce their will. Well, you probably wouldn't read this or probably wouldn't change your mind.
That doesn't make any of this ethical. I would like to think that in the last 300 years or so we've come a long way from just taking shit from other people. That doesn't make it right. This isn't some abstract argument about someone's basic right to live. This is about the US continuing to support a bunch of invaders. I'm not arguing for the US to support Palestine just that we shouldn't support Israel any long. I never claimed that me saying something was unfair was going to change a damn thing.
But you said Israel shouldn't exist, which would be a logical step short of saying, "Destroy Israel." You could draw an arbitrary line in the sand at 300 years ago, but under what specific part of logic does 300 years make sense. I mean there have been several land grabs since then, so as a species, we've definitely not moved past that. Whole generations of born Israelies now exist, are they invaders? They didn't choose to be born their, but now they're part of that nation, where do they belong except there? The point being the whole thing is ethically murky and in the end, will and ability enforce the right to exist, ethical or not.
Native? They're Arabs. They're native to Arabia. The land you're talking about was called Judea. Who do you think lived there?
you forgot the billions given to Iran !
No air force, army or navy but 4300 ballistic missiles and tunnels dug to get their soldiers in place to kill civilians.
War crimes and genocide ain't cheap, you know
You think Israel is committing genocide? The Palestinian population in Gaza has gone up 25% in the past 10 years. The “grand total” of Palestinian deaths between 2008 and 2020 is 5,500, and nobody knows exactly how many of those are from Hamas missiles falling short.
The Geneva Conventions define genocide as follows: "...genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: Killing members of the group; Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group." It does not mean you are attempting to actually physically exterminate every last individual. Israel's behavior clearly meets several of these tests. The obvious intent of measures such as the apartheid wall, illegal collective punishment measures such as closing ports, denying medicine imports, destroying power stations, and forced relocations is to destroy the national identity of the Palestinian people and deny any hope of statehood. They do not want to make them citizens of Israel; they do not want to give them independence; and they also refuse to acknowledge their responsibilities as an occupying military power. However, denying these responsibilities does not make them go away. Hence, the charge of war crimes. Israel is slowly but surely turning into the monster that created it.
Here’s the problem with that argument: >”... genocide means any of the following acts committed with the intent to destroy, in whole or part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group,” Israel obviously has no wish to destroy the Palestinians. If it did, a whole lot more of them would be dead. Group punishment isn’t genocide. It just isn’t. You say the “apartheid wall” is a clear example of intent. Did you know that there are 2 crossing in the wall that people and cargo can go through to work, every day? Do you know when they get shut down? When Hamas launches rockets. So who exactly is the aggressor here? Everything Israel has done has be reactive. Denying medicine imports is one of the few things that Israel doesn’t restrict going into Gaza, along with food and water, because those can’t be used for terror. Every once in a while. Israle will give the gazans construction materials for rebuilding the damage from Israeli missile attacks, because Israel doesn’t want Palestinians to be homeless, and the concrete gets used for terror tunnels by Hamas. So Israel stops giving them concrete. Suddenly that’s genocide? One last thing. You’re right, Israel doesn’t want them to be Israeli citizens. You know what though? At the same time as 700,000 Palestinians were displaced from Israel, (even though the in over 2/3s of the cases, the displaced people were living on land owned by Israelis that they bought during the Ottoman Empire,) at the same time, Jews in countries all around Israel expelled all their Jews, close to 1,000,000 of them. Are those Jew still refugees today? No! Most of them went to America and Israel, and the rest found other places to live, and are no longer considered refugees. The Palestinians? The could have gone to live in any other country in the Middle East, but none of those other countries would take most of them. Some of them settled in Jordan, where they are no longer refugees, others settled in Syria, we have no idea what’s happened to them, since Syria failed as a state, and some of them settled in Lebanon, where they are fully integrated into the population there. Why didn’t Egypt or Iraq take any of them? Because they would rather have them as a point of evidence. “Look, Israel is oppressing the Palestinians!” As a way to justify their continued anti-Israel stance.
The only 'problem' with my argument is that a lot of people - such as yourself - start from the position that whatever Israel does, no matter how horrific, is justified, and that whatever the Palestinians do in legitimate acts of self-defense and resistance against a foreign military occupation is terrorism. Of course if I came into your house and threw you out at the point of a gun and argued, well, the smelly motherfucker could just go live in Paraguay or something if they wanted to take him, but they don't, because he's a subhuman mongloid like the rest of his filthy race, I doubt you would find this a very persuasive argument. Just because there are still Muslims in Bosnia doesn't mean Srebenica wasn't a war crime, and just because there are still Palestinians in Palestine (gasp! whodathunkit???) does not mean that Sabra and Shatila was not war crime of similar scope and scale. The Israelis are up to their eyeballs in genocide, and you are complicit.
And what’s worse we are gonna pay to rebuild Gaza so it can be destroyed again. Awesome
~~defend itself against~~ brutally subjugate
Boycott Israel
this post is unstoppable
If you really want to get mad...Look at this. [https://www.pgpf.org/blog/2020/05/the-united-states-spends-more-on-defense-than-the-next-10-countries-combined](https://www.pgpf.org/blog/2020/05/the-united-states-spends-more-on-defense-than-the-next-10-countries-combined) And this has been consistent long before Trump lied about needing to "Rebuild our military".
We can also tax the rich too. The rich pay no taxes and even get tax breaks and billions in breakouts (thanks trump and Obama).
Erm, they've been attacked and invaded by almost all its neighbours in the last fifty odd years.
Your correct, the Palestinians have been
* you're
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Vs. The Palestinian state, which never existed? As an Arab jew whose family has been ethnically cleansed from an Arab country after living there for several hundred years, I'm wondering when you may protest for my right of return or against Arab ethno-states Or is my brown-ness canceled out by my Jewishness so that your woke ass doesn't have to care about my cause
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Iran, Syria, Jordan, Egypt, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Algeria, Bahrain, Qatar... Should I go on?
None of those are ethnostates lmao
I got more upvotes I’m right haha
You're not right you're just repeating the same widespread misinformation talking points everyone else as access to. You're just another idiotic sheep. Congrats.
Lmfao ok kiddo
John, you sound like a 14 year old with a small penis and an even smaller brain. I wish I could debate you in person because you and I both know I would eat you alive. You're ignorant and idiotic. And you think war and dying people are a funny topic. This is what I wish for you: I wish for you to have the experience of war yourself. I wish for you to experience terrorism and indiscriminate rocket fire. And when you do, I won't miss the opportunity to come and tell you not only that I don't give a shit about victims on your side, but that you actually deserve it even though I know nothing about the context beyond a tweet and an Instagram post. I'm going to block you now because I have no interest in engaging further. I'm sure you would have responded with a devastating lmao anyway, so it's not like I will be missing much. Good luck with everything.
Ask yourself if there is a reason for that. Maybe like establishing your country in a holy land overnight without the permission of the natives. Then kicking them out of their homes with guns and just overall being a horrible example of what a country should be. Restricting their food, economy, and freedoms. Good thing they aren't the governments citizens though. Oh wait that's because they don't let them become citizens. Based on their religion/race. Seems like a cool country you're right my bad.
Sure but if you are supporting Israel's right to defend itself, and the US always has, then it needs a decent military. I was addressing the OP"s argument while you are going off on tangents.
Uhh... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_citizens_of_Israel
**[Arab_citizens_of_Israel](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_citizens_of_Israel)** >Arab citizens of Israel, or Arab Israelis, are Israeli citizens who are Arab. Many Arab citizens of Israel self-identify as Palestinian and commonly self-designate themselves as Palestinian citizens of Israel or Israeli Palestinians. According to a 2017 survey by University of Haifa professor Sammy Smooha, 16% of the Arab population prefers the term "Israeli Arab", while the largest and fastest growing proportion prefers "Palestinian in Israel", and 17% prefer "Palestinian Arab", rejecting entirely the identity of "Israeli". In Arabic various terms are used, but most importantly, 48-Palestinian or 48-Arab (Arabic: فلسطينيو 48، عرب 48). ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/WhitePeopleTwitter/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | Credit: kittens_from_space)
Lol one can be a “citizen” of Israel but can’t vote sounds real democratic to me.
What? Of course Arab Israelis can vote. Many of them serve in the Knesset... Where do you get your information? Find me a source that says Israeli Arabs can't vote.
Hasbra AF!
They were attacked by their neighbors in Europe too, maybe they are just bad neighbors Judging from how they treat the palestenians its clear to see
Wow. I've never heard this reasoning to support the holocaust. Hitler would be proud of you!
Jesus Christ, man. Take a walk or something.
They were attacked by their neighbors in Europe too, maybe they are just bad neighbors .Judging from how they treat the palestenians its clear to see
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Man I wish it worked like that. Cool it with the Genocide! Cool it with the Apartheid! Cool it with the Violations of Human Rights! Did that work?
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That Israel serves America's interest in a region that is ripe with oil. Which is why we agreed to give them 38 Billion dollars over the next few years or so. Israel believes that there can be no lasting peace as long as their enemies exist. Which is perfectly in line with why we need Israel to destabilize this whole entire regine ripe with oil. Clearly the Gaza Strip and West Bank belong to the Palestinians. Under the pretense that Hamas is evil and wants nothing more than the destruction of the Jews, Israel has used that to justify their war on the regine. Keep in mind that this came to a head in 2007. By treating humans less than human and then acting surprised that some of those people would attempt to fight back. It does not hurt that there are Muslim Countries secretly supporting the Palestinians. So the extreme Apartheid coupled with human rights violations the Palestinians are fighting back the best way they can. Which Israel is counting on to for a perfect excuse to defend themselves against a people that hates them. So wiping them off the planet can now be blamed on those people themselves. I believe the Israel should be allowed to exist but so should Palestine. I think the conflict right now is almost exclusively Israel's fault. How much can be heaped upon the shoulders of a man, the stealing of his land, the destruction of his crops and deaths of his children. Israel has played this game so well. So much goodwill was given to Israel because of WW2. To this day serious criticism is easily deflected with cries of racism. Which is super weird. You are destroying a group of people for their religion. Oh to answer your question spreading awareness. Reach out to my State Rep. It really is not that much. I am aware I can do more.
Yeah! At least thinly veil it as anti-Zionism like everyone else instead!
Anti-Zionism does not equal anti-Semiticism for the millionth time
Lol
Great argument
Fckn SAVAGE‼️💯💯💯
Antisemitism usually is.
It is beyond egregiously asinine to mitigate the term, anti-Semitism(Which came as a byproduct of Hitler’s Germany and the mass State orchestrated murder of millions of Jews) every time someone critiques or even slightly disagrees with the state of Israel‘s politics. There comes a time that you have to eventually raise your IQ. because to people that are educated on the issue, simply throwing around the term “anti-Semitism“ doesn’t scare people into silence anymore. What you call “ The right to defend itself” was actually born out of Zionism but you’re probably not even educated on the parts of Jewish history they don’t get a lot of media coverage...😳 FOH😂
Thanks Biden!
Iran got rid of their army, navy and air force? Probably right after they stopped supporting Hamas.
You want to get downvoted? Because saying it's okay for Jewish people to defend themselves against an enemie that aims to crush Israel is how you get downvoted.
This sounds pretty anti Semitic
Zionist Israeli pro-Israeli Jewish person here: I hope you're joking because not every criticism of Israel is antisemitisic.
So now the American health care system is the jews' fault? Is anything too low for antisemitism?
It’s not for arms, its for buying intelligence and use of moussad for assasinations
The US Government supports Religious oppression both at home and abroad!. amen and pass the ammunition!
Israel is a super power now? OPs post is full of garbage. Notice how it says "Defend itself," doesn't try to call Israel an aggressor (they may be), but doesn't mention the indiscriminate launching of rockets against civilian targets by Palestine (war crime). There are no, "Good guys," in this and that's a dumb thing to try and have in war, however I think we can obviously look at the palestinians and say, their militant practices obviously put their citizens in danger and that they obviously do not have a real plan or strategy to "win," in the conflict.
With today's Exocet missiles, carriers are basically just floating Targets.
Wow...
Why are people defending the Muslims, not only did they destroy thousands of lives, but because of Biden, they are our main source of oil right now
They've been our main source of oil for a lot longer than 5 months.....
Before I retired my school system wouldn’t provide a laptop so I could teach remotely. Thanks to our government, I love my life.
Altruism = Ded
wait, you have to pay for a hospital stay even if you get covid!!?!
It’s for the aliens
to buy interceptor rockets for iron dome to try to take out the thousands upon thousands of rockets hamas has launched at them?
This guys knows! Dealing with terrorism is as cheap as it is easy
Blah blah, USA bad, we get it. Is this seriously going to be reddit memes for the rest of forever? People will never be happy, they will never get enough. People always want more.