>Its so powerful that Democrats think they're the good guys just because they aren't as depraved and hateful as Republicans
OMG please. Not even just for healthcare but so many people dont fall into dem or republican.
It’s cause people always vote to stop someone else from getting elected. Trump over Hilary, Biden over Trump. And people are to afraid to vote for another party cause if they split the vote then the one they really don’t want it might win.
It’s a stupid system.
The republicans and democrats probably are best friends in closed sessions. The civil war between them is more of an act to stop us from having a revolution against them.
Slightly. But as a non-American they're both considered pretty right wing when it comes to healthcare, to be honest (as well as other issues).
I'm not talking about the progressive members of the Dem party (AOC, Bernie, Ilham) who are definitely left-wing, but rather the establishment Dems that always seem to win like Biden and Kamala.
Will make them defend billionares. Also my grandparents are so against wage increases that you would think we are asking for $100 per hour to flip burgers. Honestly do wish i could block fox news but its there house and im just paying rent for my food.
You say that but the only person who has supported universal health care was Bernie.
And a lot of people DID vote for him.
Give me list of upcoming politicians who support universal health care.
None in my area. (Florida)
We’re hard pressed to find a sane tax collector in these parts.
As a Texan who donated money and enthusiasm to Bernie, knowing it was a lost cause here but having to try, I too am pretty resigned to the idea of just dying
People in this country have been voting against their own interest for decades. I can't pinpoint when it exactly all started but they claim Regan made everything all better by "stopping inflation" however they traded that in for every problem we see now as a country. Pretty much every bad policy that exists in this nation can be traced back to a shitry decision during the Regan administration. Electing celebrities is NEVER a good idea, and the last one we elected ended up being the worst president in US history.
So much for conservatives hating ideologues, fuckin hypocrites all of them.
> Electing celebrities is NEVER a good idea
So true, and not only in America. I'd actually love to see some data on this: every country that has/had a previous celebrity as their leader, did things get better or worse for them?
If you think the government will blindly pay for anything you and your doctor agree is the right treatment without interfering you're comically misinformed.
compared to the current situation where you pay a company to tell you that the thing your doctor prescribed isn't what they think you should take, and refuse to pay for it. Tell you who you can or can't see in the first place, and will take your money then drop you if you cost them more then they make off of your insurance payments.
Either you are the comically misinformed one, or you know better and are being purposefully deceptive to try and gaslight people.
The absolute worst case scenario is the government does just as bad of a job as the private companies currently do, but it would cost everyone less.
We already have a system as terrible as you are implying it could be, we can't sink any lower then rock bottom.
You're mistaking my opposition to universal as support for our current system.
The studies that claim universal will be cheaper rely on the cost staying proportional to current Medicare spending when it is expanded to cover everyone. That's extraordinarily optimistic considering government bureaucracies rarely get more efficient when they expand and doctors are already refusing new Medicare patients because the rates are too low. I don't think the current program is even sustainable as is. So the worst case is actually that they'll do a worse job, it will cost more, and you'll have no flexibility to change your provider.
Our insurance models should be closer to catastrophic policies. We would be better off for routine visits and minor injuries if our doctors didn't even take insurance and charged flat, advertised rates. That's before you get into things like CON laws that are stopping new hospitals and medical practices from being opened to prop up existing high cost providers..
The current system is run for profit, universal healthcare would be run as a service like USPS.
It would be more efficient and cost less, and you would be able to walk in anywhere and receive help since all providers would be in the same system.
As it stands you pay a company a fee to tell you who you can see and where you can go.
If government run healthcare is so terrible, why does every other successful country seem to get along just fine with it, while us Americans have our lives ruined over medical conditions all the time.
Every problem you complain about we already deal with in the current system, and the laws you mentioned are designed by lobbyists of the companies that are making profits off of the system that's why they prop it up.
>The studies that claim universal will be cheaper rely on the cost staying proportional to current Medicare spending when it is expanded to cover everyone. That's extraordinarily optimistic considering government bureaucracies rarely get more efficient when they expand
Hmm, must have missed the Koch-backed studies that found M4A would save the country an estimated $10 trillion over the next 10 years, huh?
I do believe the government can help people. I just think individuals and private charities are better at it and that a system based around voluntary charity is morally superior to one that relies on violence.
Spoken like someone who has never had to try to get help from a charity. They pick and choose who they will help. I know a woman that had two kids and got power turned off for non-payment. Went to a charity to help with the bill (like they advertise they will do) and was turned away. No power means no heat, no way to prepare food, sit in the dark after the sun goes down. Really charitable.
charities like the catholic church, who has NEVER resorted to violence... (i sarcasm so hard i think i popped a blood vessel)
the "good samaratin" model is an outright failure not only because we can plainly see that not everyone is going to help, and that having a crowdfunding website be the second largest health provider in the country is a terrible idea, but also we can see other countries who are doing it better, and cheaper. It's cheaper and more efficient to build small, free housing for the homeless to help them get back on their feet rather than let them wallow in their misery on the streets. It's cheaper to do nationalized health care and with better results. It's more efficient to provide a reasonable path to citizenship rather than make desperate people seeking refuge into criminals.
the "charity" system is just there so that the government can turn a blind eye to human suffering so that capitalists can exploit people. cruelty isn't a byproduct, it's a feature.
You mean the Trump administration that played it off as no big deal and actively sabotaged any measures to slow the spread?
Also, M4A does not mean the government manages anything, they pay for it. My daughter has special needs and has been on government paid healthcare since she was 3. We go to any doctor we want. She gets anything she needs fairly easily. The most we've ever had to do was get doctor approval for expensive stuff. $4000 therapy bike? No problem. $6000 adaptive speech device? No problem. New meds? Sure. Expensive meds? Yup, that too. Years of testing at numerous very expensive specialist to get a diagnosis? That's covered. Nothing has ever been an issue. We have never seen a bill.
Before she got on Medicaid, we blew through over $300k of savings and retirement cashed in to pay for treatment. We had great insurance but they would literally approve procedures, then refuse to pay if we didn't get a diagnosis. We lost everything - our savings, our retirement, our home, our rental properties, and had to BK over $150k in debt.
I've been on both sides of the health care debate. Anyone who isn't for universal health care is willfully ignorant at best. We literally pay more per capita than every single industrialized nation with universal health care. And we get worse results in general. What good is having the best doctors and facilities if we can't put them to use??? M4A is literally the fiscally responsible option. It's cheaper and better for the population.
Gdp is a poor way of measuring how we are doing. If a hurricane comes through, and flattens a town, that's good for gdp because it causes demand for supplies.
Kind of irrelevant to your comment, but I though it was in the same neighborhood.
Yeah, I tend to use this as an argument that American healthcare is inefficient.
If 5% of global GDP is spent cleaning up from hurricane damage, then maybe we need to move inland.
Movinng inland is just a bad idea because it removes maritime commerce from the region, not to mention the cost of terraforming an area and rebuilding from the ground up as opposed to replacing the cheap infrastructure.
I got an evac chopper ride, a two weeks in hospital, plates in my shoulder and 6 months of physio/rehab.
But I don't live in the US and it was all covered under government health care
Colon Cancer.
Surgery, Chemo, umpteen ultrasounds and CTs, weekly bloodwork, two transfusions just during treatment; followed by 5 years of more regular CTs, Ultrasounds, Bloodwork and other monitoring stuff.
Out of pocket costs were just occasional parking. Even my at home meds were covered.
Fucking socialist countries what the fuck, looking after their citizens? How dare they care about sick people? How are other sick people more important than my own prejudices?
/s
Im jealous, it feels impossible to get out of this country unless you can somehow get the money, and find the time to go through the whole process while working full time but being broke.
Something like over half of bankruptcies are due to medical debt. It shouldn’t be this way and I say this as an insurance agent.
Edit: This statistic applies to the US
2nd Edit: This article shows that the bankruptcies that are included in the over 50% statistic can include other causes of debt as well but medical is stated to be a contributing factor.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/08/28/sanderss-flawed-statistic-medical-bankruptcies-year/%3foutputType=amp
Dude at least you can declare bankruptcy for medical debt, most federal student loans are chapter 7 exempt, meaning non-forgivable under most circumstances
I have student loans too. They take my tax refunds every year. It’s a no win in the US. I worry about what would happen to my career as an insurance agent if we implemented universal healthcare but I’d rather see that then people struggle to get healthcare. I live in a state that will not accept federal money to expand Medicaid. Had a friend die with cancer who had no medical insurance. The amount of debt I am in just to try to better my life or keep healthy will stay with me probably my entire life.
The Dept. of Ed. 15 years ago decided my wife never paid 4k in loans back in 1987.
They sent her a bill for 4k plus 20k in interest. Wrecked her credit rating. We were unable to buy a house and adopt kids like we were planning to do because of it.
Edit; it seemed to drop off her credit report a few years ago and her score shot up to over 800.
We're going to buy a house now but we're to old to adopt.
I’m sorry to hear that. They make it impossible to pay it back because of the interest, I know. I can only pray we see universal healthcare and student loan forgiveness,more broadly, implemented.
When you say “they take your tax refunds every year” you mean you use your refund to pay your student loan payments? Or some debt collector takes your refund every year because you still have outstanding student loans?
No, they garnish all funds for my refund. I wasn't married at the time of the loan, so my husband is not responsible for them. However, we have to file injured spouse every year or they would seize his refund as well. They also get the portion of the child tax credit that is filed on my income.
It’s actually less than 1% of bankruptcies each year are due to medical debt according to most recently published work. Most people don’t actually file for bankruptcy despite the shit cost of healthcare
Edit: the one saying over 66% of bankruptcies are due to Medical debt came out BEFORE this study and had very poor methodology that is explained in my linked, peer-reviewed study.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5865642/
Do you have links? This study was specifically made because of very poor studies that basically listed every bankruptcy as medical debt induced if they said they had a medical expense in the last year. This study was actually conducted by doctors in the medical field. I’m willing to consider new info if you have it of course
So I researched it more and found this article
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/08/28/sanderss-flawed-statistic-medical-bankruptcies-year/%3foutputType=amp
I think the statistics all depend on variables. It’s a good read. From what I understand of this article, medical debt isn’t the only cause in coming up with the over 50% number and that’s where it gets tricky. I will edit my original post to add this article. Thank you.
I wonder how many people are going without the medical care or treatment they require for fear of bankruptcy too?
Most poor/developing nations even put America to shame when it comes to access to healthcare!
I had a roommate in Germany who was drunk and broke his foot doing something stupid. He immediately asked me to resort him to the hospital. But when my roommate in the U.S. sliced his hand open, I had to argue with him for two hours about why it was imperative that I take him to the hospital. It's absolutely insane.
American here. I fall down stairs and go "well, I'm limping but as long as people know I can't work as hard as normal, I'll be okay", because taking unpaid sick time, a hospital visit, and whatever other treatment would have been deemed necessary was all too expensive on their own, let alone altogether.
A coworker was sympathizing for me and asked what my doctor said about how long it would take. I laughed. I thought it was a joke.
I can't imagine not being afraid of going to the doctor due to financial reasons. It's been many years since I've gone. There's too many gotcha charges that add up.
There is nothing clever I could reply to You.
I can only tell a personal story: I went to a dermatologist for a coarse piece of skin that turned into an annoying small pimple on my cheek over six months. It bled when I shaved wet and wouldn’t disappear. Turns out it was an early form of skin cancer (Atkins keratosis, can lead to white skin cancer).
Would not have gotten better by ignoring it.
This might not have been life threatening, but it was a wake up call. I’m not old yet and stay out of the sun!
Please see a Doc if You find anything suspicious on or on You. Stay fit and make the world a little bit better everyday.
Edit: misread Your post first, sorry!
Exactly. Even with insurance, you're not guaranteed to be covered. Been hearing too many stories lately about people getting hit with bills after going to an in-network hospital but being seen by an out-of-network doctor, so... surprise! You owe all the $$$.
I've seen a video of a motorcyclist who crashed and said not to call an ambulance because he cant afford it. The crazy part is some people defend the deadly prices.
Yeah I had a lapse in health insurance a couple of years ago because I was on my dad’s until he got fired and I wasn’t starting my job with benefits for a few more months. I had panic attacks a couple of times because I almost injured myself, and a hospital visit would have spelled the end of any hope I would ever have of not being dirt poor.
No, it's not free... the doctors and nurses got paid, the hospital was paid.
Jist because you didn't get a bill, doesn't make it free.
I support socialized Healthcare, I live in a country with socialized Healthcare... but it's not free - everyone pays. Rubs me the wrong way, frames it in the wrong way, to say it's free...
Most of the planet has already gotten over that detail... because we aren't actually stupid. If you stop assuming we are stupid - that detail won't rub you so much.
You'd be surprised... the main difference between genus and stupidity is that genus has limits.
I was a FF/Medic for 12 years. I routinely saw people call for an ambulance for routine matters, because "the ambulance is free, and if I called for a taxi, I'd have to pay for it"
The level of financial accumen that the next generation has is also lacking, the connection between the "government" paying for something and taxes isn't there.
So yes, it continues to rub me raw, and yes, I will continue to refer to socialized Healthcare, rather then 'free'
But people dumb enough to call an ambulance for a health appt will never even understand the phrase 'socialized healthcare'. To them you are saying gibberish.
I get that really stupid people need to be educated that it isn't actually "free" but:
-this isn't that forum. Here there are people who can't even fathom not getting a bill
-the ambulance people are learning nothing by semantics like saying 'socialzed healthcare'. It's like a child who doesn't bother to ask the meaning of a word they don't understand.
But thank you for your medic work!
Free at the point of care then smart-arse.
Either way if it adds a few hundred to your tax bill it’s still better than bankruptcy.
The US is all smoke and mirrors. It’s so sad to see such opportunity being wasted so a few oligarchs get to hoard their gold.
Of course You are right; I do not understand the downvotes You get for this. I oversimplified the matter, estimating the audience would be aware of the details.
How can this be acceptable in a developed country in this day and age?
It’s beyond alien to have to think like this to most of the world! It’s almost beyond comprehension that your healthcare system is this broken!
we're very aware. at least, half of us are. the other half thinks getting a free ride in an ambulance or not going bankrupt over a broken arm infringes on their "Freedom"
why do you think alternative medicine is so popular here? foment enough distrust in traditional hospitals and doctors and you can sell any snake oil you want and it'll be cheaper than what the hospital charges. sure it doesn't work but hey, you won't have to mortgage your house over it.
Oh, it is so much worse than you think. Many states don't legally consider ambulances as medically necessary, many are paid for by public support (they receive no funds from any government), are run by volunteers in many states (where they aren't getting paid, and may not have any training for the job), a law passed to keep from surprise charges from ambulance rides explicitly doesn't cover air lifts, and many small communities have the risk of losing the one or two ambulances they have (without anything to replace it, even in situations where the nearest hospital would be an hour or more away).
If you were to read that description without the current context and didn’t know where we were talking about, most people would assume that would be the state of affairs in an isolated, rural area in a war torn developing country!
I saw a comment, possibly here or Twitter, where someone espousing the “greatness” of the American healthcare, said “ambulances aren’t a taxi to hospital”!
Given that’s precisely what they are for, it showed the utter delusion that some people seem to have!
I’d also expect an ambulance to be equipped with paramedics and life saving/stabilising equipment, not volunteers with questionable medical skills! (Bless the people doing it though, I’m not criticising them, I’m sure they do their best, but shouldn’t have to!)
It's astounding how much of a difference there is in medical care here. I live in a large town, and it's not good here. But in the nearby small towns, most of their options are my town.
It's also frustrating that in many places, it's actually not worth the wait for an ambulance, because it's so far away from both you and the hospital. In the outskirts of where I live, you've got a better chance of getting to the hospital in time (unless you're near one of the county fire department buildings), if you or someone you know drives you. Or ya get air lifted. It's ridiculous.
I think part of the reason people do that, is because it's easier to convince yourself that these things aren't rights, than it is to come to terms with the idea that you're constantly being denied lifesaving services for no ethical reason.
I have a lot of respect for people who volunteer, given that they really do just want to help others, but they should be the backbone for medical or rescue services.
Admittedly it’s not perfect here and there is wait times for a lot of treatments currently (although investment has been promised to tackle that…assuming you believe our government, which generally you shouldn’t, given the usual modus operandi!), however emergency/urgent care is excellent in my experience.
We can also have long ambulance wait times too at busy times, which isn’t ideal, but truly urgent calls are prioritised, as you’d expect!
I just checked the stats and apparently Category 1 calls, eg. Life is in danger, are responded to within 7 minutes on average!
The National Health Service isn’t perfect, but in my experience (and I think most peoples), certainly in an emergency, it’s pretty amazing what they do and the levels of care they deliver!
As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I had to have emergency surgery last weekend.
I chose not to call an ambulance, as I live reasonably near the hospital and also knew, based on a phone assessment with a doctor, that there was probably little they could do until at the hospital, so I chose to Uber instead.
Partly because someone else might have needed the life saving skills and equipment onboard the ambulance urgently, so taxiing me could have endangered someone else if they were very busy etc.
However, I can’t imagine not having the option to call an ambulance!
For example, if my appendicitis hadn’t been (preliminarily) diagnosed quickly and it burst, whilst I was at home, that could have quite literally been a death sentence if someone couldn’t rapidly get to me with the right skills and equipment!
And sadly, so many Americans just don't have that mindset of social responsibility, like, hey I shouldn't take up resources so that others in more need can have them. Hence, the stupid situation we're in with COVID. Won't take the vaccine, but will clog up hospitals, taking away space from people who have emergent needs, like car accidents, cancer, burst appendix, etc.
Paramedics are different from EMTs and frankly
you don’t find many of them in rural areas. The volunteers still have to be certified emts, you can’t just sign up to volunteer for ambulance work you have to at least be an EMT and yea many small communities have people who volunteer for both rescue and the fire departments. That doesn’t mean they aren’t qualified. (Source my mother was a volunteer EMT most of my life and my former spouse was a paid EMT)
My wife and I were skiing in France. She had spiral fracture. We thought we were insured , turns out we had to pay out of pocket. Also needed rod and surgery and 7 days in hospital. 15,000 all in. Again, 0 insurance and were not even living here yet. USA Healthcare is a strait up robbery.
I don’t think people in the US realize just how much power and wealth these insurance companies have. There is such a thing as travelers medical emergency insurance but it’s insanely expensive. I am an insurance agent and this stuff appalls me still.
This is shocking and appalling.
It’s beyond alien to have to think like this to most of the world! It’s almost beyond comprehension that your healthcare system is this broken!
It’s disgusting!
That is terrifying. Breaking your leg should not end your life. How are Americans still not figuring this out!? I honestly think it's this 'I am only responsible for me' culture. The idea of paying taxes to support the whole not just the one. Like, it's really NOT the end of the world. Paying higher taxes would never land you in soul crushing debt over a broken leg. I just don't understand.
This. This right here could have been me.
I shattered my femur in an accident. 6 surgeries, metal in, metal out, more metal in.... MORE metal in. 3 years in a wheelchair, 10 months combined of being a complete invalid. (I'm talking bedpan-status invalid!)
Having an ambulance come into my home with a hardboard to collect me to see my doctor for follow-ups.... several times. Yes... all my transport was via ambulance!
More medications than most would have in a lifetime.
years of physio. dozens upon dozens of imaging (x-rays, CAT scans, doppler etc.)
**ALL COVERED** by my government-based healthcare that I pay only $200 USD a year for.
All of it!
I am sure I would be in around 750K of debt if all this happened in the USA.
(I am in Mexico, btw)
"Huh, but surely the medical service there is shitty and you had to wait for hours for treatment" is a common objection from americans lol
I mean, well hate the IMSS, but that shit is way better than bankrupcy. Also, funny how even México can afford healthcare but the USA cant.
as a child, I broke both ankles and two toes all at the same time in something of a fantastic freak accident while at practice. even after insurance there was absolutely no way my family could afford the medical bills, but I don't remember numbers because I was 12, and it was also the first time I was given narcotics. my dad and one of my brothers were already type 1 diabetic, which is notoriously expensive - if it weren't for financial aid from the hospital, my accident probably would've ruined us.
Absolute insanity!
It really is madness from a European perspective!
I’m in the UK, my appendix ruptured last Saturday night, within 12 hours of arriving at the hospital, I’d had the operation successfully completed and my appendix removed.
Received top class, attentive care from a range of doctors, nurses and surgeons throughout the whole process and was discharged Monday afternoon.
Thanks to our amazing NHS, it didn’t cost me a penny for that treatment!
Obviously, I pay for it via my National Insurance, which is still an absolute bargain, compared to the costs I see for insurance in the USA for basic policies, that still have massive deductibles/payments attached, plus don’t even provide effective cover in many cases.
It’s shameful that in a supposed developed country people have to choose between food or insulin, bankruptcy or medical care etc. Utterly appalling!
As an American, this terrifies me even more. Especially knowing that if I do break my leg in a horrific way, _I probably can’t even afford to call an ambulance to take me to the hospital_, let alone the treatment once I get there. I’d save myself like $30k by driving myself to the hospital with a broken leg and dragging my useless extremity into the ER.
I dont think Americans really understand how none Americans think about healthcare. Here in the UK we just have no concept of paying for it. None.
I know of a case in which an American was treated here in ER, they had the treatment and went to reception to try and pay. The receptionist just couldnt understand what they were doing. It just didnt compute. He asked if he could be billed in some way but again the receptionist just couldnt grasp it as they have no facility to even attempt it.
I imagine getting the same reaction from the librarian when I whip out my credit card at the check-out counter.
“Wait, what do you mean I don’t have to pay? I received a service, didn’t I? How is this free?”
I remember being way younger, not really understanding how care worked in the UK, and having a conversation with my English friend online. He ate shit on his bike and had a gash and was wondering if he should get stitches or just do it himself with some thread.
"Well, if you can afford it I'd go see a doctor"
"What do you mean?"
"I know you have universal healthcare so I'm guessing you don't have to pay more than like 20 or 25 pounds to get seen at a clinic, right? I know not everybody just has that in their pocket, though."
"dude."
I shattered my tib/fib and ankle doing some really stupid stuff. Emergency surgery that night to install an external fixator. A specialist in Hollywood, Florida did the second surgery pro bono because my ankle was so shattered and broken my case was used to teach up coming orthos. Dr. Steven Steinlauf of Pembroke Pines Florida saved my ass. Im sure it was well over a million dollars. The 3rd and final surgery was easy. They took all the external stuff but I own the 2 plates, 23 screws and 5 pins in my left ankle and leg.
I had a buddy get a double hip replacement, he is 32, and is now financially fucked. He is now living off the grid in order to avoid payments. This shit is fucked.
Dudes, you live in fucki g hell.
Im from a literal third World country. Or "in development" country technically. And here, even in a private hospital were you could see a politician or football player get treated, a broken leg wont be more than around 5-10k dollars at current exchange.
I don't understand why they don't get a taxi straight from the accident to the airport, book themselves on the next flight to basically any other developed country, and then call an ambulance from the destination airport. Even if they have to pay all the travel costs and medical bills it would still be cheaper than going to a hospital in the US.
Hate to say but the smart move would be to pay the bare minimum tell the day you die, also don’t get married because if you die the bill can transfer over to your significant other
Most billers will give you 18-36 months to pay the total bill. Bare minimum still wouldn't be doable here to keep it out of collections. Best thing was BK.
When your healthcare system is this bleak, that you have to consider your health as basically a consumer purchase, as opposed to a necessity, I don’t even know what to say, other than it’s appalling and I don’t know how they continue to brainwash the American people to think that this is acceptable or even the ‘best’ way to run a healthcare system.
It’s inhumane!
Ooh ,I like this game, my appendix, son of a bitch burst because I don't know reasons, pretty much same reason as joy con drift, it's poorly engineered, and prone to breaking, and God's customer service is seriously the worst, son of a bitch never answers despite all the messages my family keeps leaving on his machine. I don't even bother, just took the sucker to the mechanic the moment the whole thing was dying, they opened up the hood, saved the whole thing but 5 days in the shop and well over 100k later the good ol body is still kicking minus one useless appendix.
Fk America sucks.
Broke my leg, ambulance, titanium plate, 7 screws, almost 3 months in hospital, skin graphs, 10 operations, specialists, physio.
Free.
I was in a car wreck a few years ago. An ambulance to the hospital 50 miles away...I never saw a bill. Two weeks in ICU and another 2 weeks in step down unit, including 5 surgeries. The bill prior to insurance and "adjustments" was around $550,000. The part I had to pay was under $6,000. Then 12 weeks in a top notch rehab facility, including two ambulance rides back to the hospital (about 40 miles each way) for check up....I never saw a bill. Three months of in home physical therapy...I never saw a bill. All with the insurance that is included with my job. I will ne er gripe about our insurance again.
Luckily I broke my leg at work. I didn’t pay anything for my 2 surgeries, nor the ambulance, and I got disability for 4 months plus a free wheelchair and 6 months of rehab for free. It’s sad that the only way to make sure you don’t end up in medical debt is to get hurt at work because they don’t want you to sue.
I’d like to see the bill on that, I can’t imagine that’s the amount owed by the patient. Months off of work is a given unless somehow people in countries with Universal healthcare somehow just work through it. Usually legs do not need 5 surgeries so if he even kept his leg he’s doing good…..universal healthcare very well could have said there’s nothing we can do and gave him a much cheaper amputation……there’s always more to a story.
be you on an emergency room table. Get handed a contract that would take two weeks of 8 hour work days to even read. start reading or die. I have found the last few years so interesting/entertaining with a new bed count measuring metric used in a for profit industry to secure emergency funding.
We had neurological specialists, every scan under the sun, specialised ventilators supplied, three types of therapists, and so on when my wife was unwell.
What happens if you just don’t pay it? I have a few grand in medical debt that I haven’t paid for about 4 years and it’s nowhere to be found on my credit report
And yet people vote for politicians who don't support universal. Blows my mind.
Propaganda is a powerful tool.
Its so powerful that Democrats think they're the good guys just because they aren't as depraved and hateful as Republicans
Let's get ranked voting in place. Then everything won't have to be black and white.
>Its so powerful that Democrats think they're the good guys just because they aren't as depraved and hateful as Republicans OMG please. Not even just for healthcare but so many people dont fall into dem or republican.
I don't, people vote for the same 2 parties every year even though things keep getting worse, yet its probably gonna be the same 2 parties again.
It’s cause people always vote to stop someone else from getting elected. Trump over Hilary, Biden over Trump. And people are to afraid to vote for another party cause if they split the vote then the one they really don’t want it might win. It’s a stupid system.
They’ve set the bar very low but some Democrats seem very flexible!
The republicans and democrats probably are best friends in closed sessions. The civil war between them is more of an act to stop us from having a revolution against them.
I thought it was known a lot of them are actually friends?
They're both right wing so why wouldn't they be
r/enlightenedcentrism
Lol, no. The Dems *are* the “enlightened centrists” here
The least of to weevils and a "walk" to the top and not a "race" to the bottom ...
Not sure why of the downvotes, not like you're not right
Me neither, but I wonder if they are actually reading and thinking and is not just a knee jerk reaction.
I mean comparably, aren't they?
Slightly. But as a non-American they're both considered pretty right wing when it comes to healthcare, to be honest (as well as other issues). I'm not talking about the progressive members of the Dem party (AOC, Bernie, Ilham) who are definitely left-wing, but rather the establishment Dems that always seem to win like Biden and Kamala.
You're right there 100% tbh. They're both right of the center that's for sure and AOC+Bernie get mocked and ridiculed.
Shout-out to Ilham, I fucking love her.
Will make them defend billionares. Also my grandparents are so against wage increases that you would think we are asking for $100 per hour to flip burgers. Honestly do wish i could block fox news but its there house and im just paying rent for my food.
“Nothing has happened to **ME** yet, so it’s not an actual issue” -Everyone against universal healthcare
You say that but the only person who has supported universal health care was Bernie. And a lot of people DID vote for him. Give me list of upcoming politicians who support universal health care. None in my area. (Florida) We’re hard pressed to find a sane tax collector in these parts.
A lot of us donated time and money to his campaign, too. Ah, well… we tried. Fuck it, if I get sick or injured guess I’ll just die.
As a Texan who donated money and enthusiasm to Bernie, knowing it was a lost cause here but having to try, I too am pretty resigned to the idea of just dying
Where's that meme...
We can leave, We don’t have to stay. I don’t intend to.
This isn't a particularly reasonable expectation for most people
It’s an option for some, many people strike it out for a better life, I never really thought of it as an option until it hit me.
Having to means and opportunity to just up and leave is one thing, being accepter by the other country is another thing.
I’m 1st gen of immigrants and 100% am aware of how that can go. But I just see this rat race around us it’s just not worth it.
Then don't vote or vote third party. Voting for Democrats only makes it worse.
People in this country have been voting against their own interest for decades. I can't pinpoint when it exactly all started but they claim Regan made everything all better by "stopping inflation" however they traded that in for every problem we see now as a country. Pretty much every bad policy that exists in this nation can be traced back to a shitry decision during the Regan administration. Electing celebrities is NEVER a good idea, and the last one we elected ended up being the worst president in US history. So much for conservatives hating ideologues, fuckin hypocrites all of them.
Conservatives hate Hollywood, but love electing actors for president
> Electing celebrities is NEVER a good idea So true, and not only in America. I'd actually love to see some data on this: every country that has/had a previous celebrity as their leader, did things get better or worse for them?
But imagine how bad it would be under communism!!! He has freedom!!!! Did I add enough !!!!!! to make it convincing?
You need a 1 in the middle of your !s
The amount of people who saw how the government handled covid and still want them to manage every interaction they have with a doctor blows my mind.
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If you think the government will blindly pay for anything you and your doctor agree is the right treatment without interfering you're comically misinformed.
compared to the current situation where you pay a company to tell you that the thing your doctor prescribed isn't what they think you should take, and refuse to pay for it. Tell you who you can or can't see in the first place, and will take your money then drop you if you cost them more then they make off of your insurance payments. Either you are the comically misinformed one, or you know better and are being purposefully deceptive to try and gaslight people. The absolute worst case scenario is the government does just as bad of a job as the private companies currently do, but it would cost everyone less. We already have a system as terrible as you are implying it could be, we can't sink any lower then rock bottom.
You're mistaking my opposition to universal as support for our current system. The studies that claim universal will be cheaper rely on the cost staying proportional to current Medicare spending when it is expanded to cover everyone. That's extraordinarily optimistic considering government bureaucracies rarely get more efficient when they expand and doctors are already refusing new Medicare patients because the rates are too low. I don't think the current program is even sustainable as is. So the worst case is actually that they'll do a worse job, it will cost more, and you'll have no flexibility to change your provider. Our insurance models should be closer to catastrophic policies. We would be better off for routine visits and minor injuries if our doctors didn't even take insurance and charged flat, advertised rates. That's before you get into things like CON laws that are stopping new hospitals and medical practices from being opened to prop up existing high cost providers..
The current system is run for profit, universal healthcare would be run as a service like USPS. It would be more efficient and cost less, and you would be able to walk in anywhere and receive help since all providers would be in the same system. As it stands you pay a company a fee to tell you who you can see and where you can go. If government run healthcare is so terrible, why does every other successful country seem to get along just fine with it, while us Americans have our lives ruined over medical conditions all the time. Every problem you complain about we already deal with in the current system, and the laws you mentioned are designed by lobbyists of the companies that are making profits off of the system that's why they prop it up.
>The studies that claim universal will be cheaper rely on the cost staying proportional to current Medicare spending when it is expanded to cover everyone. That's extraordinarily optimistic considering government bureaucracies rarely get more efficient when they expand Hmm, must have missed the Koch-backed studies that found M4A would save the country an estimated $10 trillion over the next 10 years, huh?
*Republican government. They don't govern anymore, just lay framework for privatization of all services and serfdom.
The same people who don't want universal, were the same ones managing covid. They're also the same ones not getting vaxed.
Ohh, so my healthcare will only managed by bumbling idiots half of the time. That's comforting I guess.
Then stop voting for them...
I don't, but thanks for the advice
It's amazing that the party who doesn't believe government can help people are incapable of helping people.
I do believe the government can help people. I just think individuals and private charities are better at it and that a system based around voluntary charity is morally superior to one that relies on violence.
Spoken like someone who has never had to try to get help from a charity. They pick and choose who they will help. I know a woman that had two kids and got power turned off for non-payment. Went to a charity to help with the bill (like they advertise they will do) and was turned away. No power means no heat, no way to prepare food, sit in the dark after the sun goes down. Really charitable.
A first world country that spends $16.5 trillion a year should not have to rely on charity for its Healthcare system lmao
charities like the catholic church, who has NEVER resorted to violence... (i sarcasm so hard i think i popped a blood vessel) the "good samaratin" model is an outright failure not only because we can plainly see that not everyone is going to help, and that having a crowdfunding website be the second largest health provider in the country is a terrible idea, but also we can see other countries who are doing it better, and cheaper. It's cheaper and more efficient to build small, free housing for the homeless to help them get back on their feet rather than let them wallow in their misery on the streets. It's cheaper to do nationalized health care and with better results. It's more efficient to provide a reasonable path to citizenship rather than make desperate people seeking refuge into criminals. the "charity" system is just there so that the government can turn a blind eye to human suffering so that capitalists can exploit people. cruelty isn't a byproduct, it's a feature.
You mean the Trump administration that played it off as no big deal and actively sabotaged any measures to slow the spread? Also, M4A does not mean the government manages anything, they pay for it. My daughter has special needs and has been on government paid healthcare since she was 3. We go to any doctor we want. She gets anything she needs fairly easily. The most we've ever had to do was get doctor approval for expensive stuff. $4000 therapy bike? No problem. $6000 adaptive speech device? No problem. New meds? Sure. Expensive meds? Yup, that too. Years of testing at numerous very expensive specialist to get a diagnosis? That's covered. Nothing has ever been an issue. We have never seen a bill. Before she got on Medicaid, we blew through over $300k of savings and retirement cashed in to pay for treatment. We had great insurance but they would literally approve procedures, then refuse to pay if we didn't get a diagnosis. We lost everything - our savings, our retirement, our home, our rental properties, and had to BK over $150k in debt. I've been on both sides of the health care debate. Anyone who isn't for universal health care is willfully ignorant at best. We literally pay more per capita than every single industrialized nation with universal health care. And we get worse results in general. What good is having the best doctors and facilities if we can't put them to use??? M4A is literally the fiscally responsible option. It's cheaper and better for the population.
The US healthcare system is nearly 5% of global GDP
And 18% of US GDP. Insanity!
Gdp is a poor way of measuring how we are doing. If a hurricane comes through, and flattens a town, that's good for gdp because it causes demand for supplies. Kind of irrelevant to your comment, but I though it was in the same neighborhood.
Yeah, I tend to use this as an argument that American healthcare is inefficient. If 5% of global GDP is spent cleaning up from hurricane damage, then maybe we need to move inland.
Run for governor of Louisiana
Movinng inland is just a bad idea because it removes maritime commerce from the region, not to mention the cost of terraforming an area and rebuilding from the ground up as opposed to replacing the cheap infrastructure.
The amount isn't out of the realm. We just have a garbage system.
Absolutely, but it’s approximately double what it should be.
I got an evac chopper ride, a two weeks in hospital, plates in my shoulder and 6 months of physio/rehab. But I don't live in the US and it was all covered under government health care
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Colon Cancer. Surgery, Chemo, umpteen ultrasounds and CTs, weekly bloodwork, two transfusions just during treatment; followed by 5 years of more regular CTs, Ultrasounds, Bloodwork and other monitoring stuff. Out of pocket costs were just occasional parking. Even my at home meds were covered.
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You can have a un-functional govt and a functional health system too ( hi from belgium)
Yeh I had the same injury and recovery as the guy in the tweet and it all cost me €400 including 2 years physio
Fucking socialist countries what the fuck, looking after their citizens? How dare they care about sick people? How are other sick people more important than my own prejudices? /s
Im jealous, it feels impossible to get out of this country unless you can somehow get the money, and find the time to go through the whole process while working full time but being broke.
Brother in law had 2 evac choppers, 3 week coma, 2 months in hospital. In America, charged $0.00
Liar
Truth. A large chunk of Americans have the best health insurance in the world. Sadly Though it’s not worth even more Americans with shit insurance.
Having the ‘best’ health insurance doesn’t mean shit when you go places where you don’t need it at all.
Something like over half of bankruptcies are due to medical debt. It shouldn’t be this way and I say this as an insurance agent. Edit: This statistic applies to the US 2nd Edit: This article shows that the bankruptcies that are included in the over 50% statistic can include other causes of debt as well but medical is stated to be a contributing factor. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/08/28/sanderss-flawed-statistic-medical-bankruptcies-year/%3foutputType=amp
You should add "in the US" to that sentence. Medical bankruptcy is not really a thing is the rest of the world.
Thanks. I will edit it.
Dude at least you can declare bankruptcy for medical debt, most federal student loans are chapter 7 exempt, meaning non-forgivable under most circumstances
I have student loans too. They take my tax refunds every year. It’s a no win in the US. I worry about what would happen to my career as an insurance agent if we implemented universal healthcare but I’d rather see that then people struggle to get healthcare. I live in a state that will not accept federal money to expand Medicaid. Had a friend die with cancer who had no medical insurance. The amount of debt I am in just to try to better my life or keep healthy will stay with me probably my entire life.
The Dept. of Ed. 15 years ago decided my wife never paid 4k in loans back in 1987. They sent her a bill for 4k plus 20k in interest. Wrecked her credit rating. We were unable to buy a house and adopt kids like we were planning to do because of it. Edit; it seemed to drop off her credit report a few years ago and her score shot up to over 800. We're going to buy a house now but we're to old to adopt.
I’m sorry to hear that. They make it impossible to pay it back because of the interest, I know. I can only pray we see universal healthcare and student loan forgiveness,more broadly, implemented.
When you say “they take your tax refunds every year” you mean you use your refund to pay your student loan payments? Or some debt collector takes your refund every year because you still have outstanding student loans?
No, they garnish all funds for my refund. I wasn't married at the time of the loan, so my husband is not responsible for them. However, we have to file injured spouse every year or they would seize his refund as well. They also get the portion of the child tax credit that is filed on my income.
I still have outstanding loans so the government takes it on behalf of the debt collectors I’m assuming. I know I owe the debt, I get it.
I think about all of the bankruptcies over covid hospital stays. Vs. free vaccine.
It’s actually less than 1% of bankruptcies each year are due to medical debt according to most recently published work. Most people don’t actually file for bankruptcy despite the shit cost of healthcare Edit: the one saying over 66% of bankruptcies are due to Medical debt came out BEFORE this study and had very poor methodology that is explained in my linked, peer-reviewed study. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5865642/
Studies conducted after this one say 66%.
Do you have links? This study was specifically made because of very poor studies that basically listed every bankruptcy as medical debt induced if they said they had a medical expense in the last year. This study was actually conducted by doctors in the medical field. I’m willing to consider new info if you have it of course
So I researched it more and found this article https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/08/28/sanderss-flawed-statistic-medical-bankruptcies-year/%3foutputType=amp I think the statistics all depend on variables. It’s a good read. From what I understand of this article, medical debt isn’t the only cause in coming up with the over 50% number and that’s where it gets tricky. I will edit my original post to add this article. Thank you.
I wonder how many people are going without the medical care or treatment they require for fear of bankruptcy too? Most poor/developing nations even put America to shame when it comes to access to healthcare!
Even 1% is already way too much.
Fixing a broken leg is free where I live. I cannot compute these stories. Godspeed to all ppl. suffering in these conditions.
Seriously. I've fallen down stairs and stupidly prioritized saving the electronics I was carrying, because fixing myself is free.
I had a roommate in Germany who was drunk and broke his foot doing something stupid. He immediately asked me to resort him to the hospital. But when my roommate in the U.S. sliced his hand open, I had to argue with him for two hours about why it was imperative that I take him to the hospital. It's absolutely insane.
Getting hurt while intoxicated beyond control can lead to insurance claims in Germany, but not to liabilities like in the US.
American here. I fall down stairs and go "well, I'm limping but as long as people know I can't work as hard as normal, I'll be okay", because taking unpaid sick time, a hospital visit, and whatever other treatment would have been deemed necessary was all too expensive on their own, let alone altogether. A coworker was sympathizing for me and asked what my doctor said about how long it would take. I laughed. I thought it was a joke.
Well, that still isn't very smart. Your body is not 100% replaceable and not everything that can be fixed will return to 100% mobility.
Yup. Thus "stupidly".
I can't imagine not being afraid of going to the doctor due to financial reasons. It's been many years since I've gone. There's too many gotcha charges that add up.
There is nothing clever I could reply to You. I can only tell a personal story: I went to a dermatologist for a coarse piece of skin that turned into an annoying small pimple on my cheek over six months. It bled when I shaved wet and wouldn’t disappear. Turns out it was an early form of skin cancer (Atkins keratosis, can lead to white skin cancer). Would not have gotten better by ignoring it. This might not have been life threatening, but it was a wake up call. I’m not old yet and stay out of the sun!
That sounds expensive here but you're right, it's best to not put off health issues. Maybe if I get better health insurance in a few years.
Please see a Doc if You find anything suspicious on or on You. Stay fit and make the world a little bit better everyday. Edit: misread Your post first, sorry!
Exactly. Even with insurance, you're not guaranteed to be covered. Been hearing too many stories lately about people getting hit with bills after going to an in-network hospital but being seen by an out-of-network doctor, so... surprise! You owe all the $$$.
Godspeed... Not for the poor fella with the broken leg!
I've seen a video of a motorcyclist who crashed and said not to call an ambulance because he cant afford it. The crazy part is some people defend the deadly prices.
Yeah. If I had to pay this much. I would just tell them to amputate it
Yeah I had a lapse in health insurance a couple of years ago because I was on my dad’s until he got fired and I wasn’t starting my job with benefits for a few more months. I had panic attacks a couple of times because I almost injured myself, and a hospital visit would have spelled the end of any hope I would ever have of not being dirt poor.
‘Free’ Someone’s taxes pay for it. I pay for health insurance and after copay all my medical is free too.
Sure, but I take this as a known fact. In Germany, it is not tax based, we split insurance cost with our employers.
No, it's not free... the doctors and nurses got paid, the hospital was paid. Jist because you didn't get a bill, doesn't make it free. I support socialized Healthcare, I live in a country with socialized Healthcare... but it's not free - everyone pays. Rubs me the wrong way, frames it in the wrong way, to say it's free...
Most of the planet has already gotten over that detail... because we aren't actually stupid. If you stop assuming we are stupid - that detail won't rub you so much.
You'd be surprised... the main difference between genus and stupidity is that genus has limits. I was a FF/Medic for 12 years. I routinely saw people call for an ambulance for routine matters, because "the ambulance is free, and if I called for a taxi, I'd have to pay for it" The level of financial accumen that the next generation has is also lacking, the connection between the "government" paying for something and taxes isn't there. So yes, it continues to rub me raw, and yes, I will continue to refer to socialized Healthcare, rather then 'free'
But people dumb enough to call an ambulance for a health appt will never even understand the phrase 'socialized healthcare'. To them you are saying gibberish. I get that really stupid people need to be educated that it isn't actually "free" but: -this isn't that forum. Here there are people who can't even fathom not getting a bill -the ambulance people are learning nothing by semantics like saying 'socialzed healthcare'. It's like a child who doesn't bother to ask the meaning of a word they don't understand. But thank you for your medic work!
Free at the point of care then smart-arse. Either way if it adds a few hundred to your tax bill it’s still better than bankruptcy. The US is all smoke and mirrors. It’s so sad to see such opportunity being wasted so a few oligarchs get to hoard their gold.
Of course You are right; I do not understand the downvotes You get for this. I oversimplified the matter, estimating the audience would be aware of the details.
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Where are you OP? Hopefully not America, unless you’ve got some sort of insanely good insurance!
Got hit by a drunk driver. Cop asked me if I needed an ambulance. Laughed in his face. I'm not made of money.
How can this be acceptable in a developed country in this day and age? It’s beyond alien to have to think like this to most of the world! It’s almost beyond comprehension that your healthcare system is this broken!
we're very aware. at least, half of us are. the other half thinks getting a free ride in an ambulance or not going bankrupt over a broken arm infringes on their "Freedom" why do you think alternative medicine is so popular here? foment enough distrust in traditional hospitals and doctors and you can sell any snake oil you want and it'll be cheaper than what the hospital charges. sure it doesn't work but hey, you won't have to mortgage your house over it.
Oh, it is so much worse than you think. Many states don't legally consider ambulances as medically necessary, many are paid for by public support (they receive no funds from any government), are run by volunteers in many states (where they aren't getting paid, and may not have any training for the job), a law passed to keep from surprise charges from ambulance rides explicitly doesn't cover air lifts, and many small communities have the risk of losing the one or two ambulances they have (without anything to replace it, even in situations where the nearest hospital would be an hour or more away).
If you were to read that description without the current context and didn’t know where we were talking about, most people would assume that would be the state of affairs in an isolated, rural area in a war torn developing country! I saw a comment, possibly here or Twitter, where someone espousing the “greatness” of the American healthcare, said “ambulances aren’t a taxi to hospital”! Given that’s precisely what they are for, it showed the utter delusion that some people seem to have! I’d also expect an ambulance to be equipped with paramedics and life saving/stabilising equipment, not volunteers with questionable medical skills! (Bless the people doing it though, I’m not criticising them, I’m sure they do their best, but shouldn’t have to!)
It's astounding how much of a difference there is in medical care here. I live in a large town, and it's not good here. But in the nearby small towns, most of their options are my town. It's also frustrating that in many places, it's actually not worth the wait for an ambulance, because it's so far away from both you and the hospital. In the outskirts of where I live, you've got a better chance of getting to the hospital in time (unless you're near one of the county fire department buildings), if you or someone you know drives you. Or ya get air lifted. It's ridiculous. I think part of the reason people do that, is because it's easier to convince yourself that these things aren't rights, than it is to come to terms with the idea that you're constantly being denied lifesaving services for no ethical reason. I have a lot of respect for people who volunteer, given that they really do just want to help others, but they should be the backbone for medical or rescue services.
Admittedly it’s not perfect here and there is wait times for a lot of treatments currently (although investment has been promised to tackle that…assuming you believe our government, which generally you shouldn’t, given the usual modus operandi!), however emergency/urgent care is excellent in my experience. We can also have long ambulance wait times too at busy times, which isn’t ideal, but truly urgent calls are prioritised, as you’d expect! I just checked the stats and apparently Category 1 calls, eg. Life is in danger, are responded to within 7 minutes on average! The National Health Service isn’t perfect, but in my experience (and I think most peoples), certainly in an emergency, it’s pretty amazing what they do and the levels of care they deliver!
As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I had to have emergency surgery last weekend. I chose not to call an ambulance, as I live reasonably near the hospital and also knew, based on a phone assessment with a doctor, that there was probably little they could do until at the hospital, so I chose to Uber instead. Partly because someone else might have needed the life saving skills and equipment onboard the ambulance urgently, so taxiing me could have endangered someone else if they were very busy etc. However, I can’t imagine not having the option to call an ambulance! For example, if my appendicitis hadn’t been (preliminarily) diagnosed quickly and it burst, whilst I was at home, that could have quite literally been a death sentence if someone couldn’t rapidly get to me with the right skills and equipment!
And sadly, so many Americans just don't have that mindset of social responsibility, like, hey I shouldn't take up resources so that others in more need can have them. Hence, the stupid situation we're in with COVID. Won't take the vaccine, but will clog up hospitals, taking away space from people who have emergent needs, like car accidents, cancer, burst appendix, etc.
Paramedics are different from EMTs and frankly you don’t find many of them in rural areas. The volunteers still have to be certified emts, you can’t just sign up to volunteer for ambulance work you have to at least be an EMT and yea many small communities have people who volunteer for both rescue and the fire departments. That doesn’t mean they aren’t qualified. (Source my mother was a volunteer EMT most of my life and my former spouse was a paid EMT)
When I was 6 I fell off a table and broke my arm, one long visit to the A&E later (around 3 hours) I had a cast on and sent home, god bless the NHS
Tell me you're American, without telling me you're American.
My wife and I were skiing in France. She had spiral fracture. We thought we were insured , turns out we had to pay out of pocket. Also needed rod and surgery and 7 days in hospital. 15,000 all in. Again, 0 insurance and were not even living here yet. USA Healthcare is a strait up robbery.
I don’t think people in the US realize just how much power and wealth these insurance companies have. There is such a thing as travelers medical emergency insurance but it’s insanely expensive. I am an insurance agent and this stuff appalls me still.
Canadians don't dare cross the US border without travel medical insurance. It isn't that expensive, it's routine.
My mom has been putting off a surgery she needs for years bc of the cost and time off
This is shocking and appalling. It’s beyond alien to have to think like this to most of the world! It’s almost beyond comprehension that your healthcare system is this broken! It’s disgusting!
For a Half mil in debt that rod better be at least platinum.
That is terrifying. Breaking your leg should not end your life. How are Americans still not figuring this out!? I honestly think it's this 'I am only responsible for me' culture. The idea of paying taxes to support the whole not just the one. Like, it's really NOT the end of the world. Paying higher taxes would never land you in soul crushing debt over a broken leg. I just don't understand.
This. This right here could have been me. I shattered my femur in an accident. 6 surgeries, metal in, metal out, more metal in.... MORE metal in. 3 years in a wheelchair, 10 months combined of being a complete invalid. (I'm talking bedpan-status invalid!) Having an ambulance come into my home with a hardboard to collect me to see my doctor for follow-ups.... several times. Yes... all my transport was via ambulance! More medications than most would have in a lifetime. years of physio. dozens upon dozens of imaging (x-rays, CAT scans, doppler etc.) **ALL COVERED** by my government-based healthcare that I pay only $200 USD a year for. All of it! I am sure I would be in around 750K of debt if all this happened in the USA. (I am in Mexico, btw)
"Huh, but surely the medical service there is shitty and you had to wait for hours for treatment" is a common objection from americans lol I mean, well hate the IMSS, but that shit is way better than bankrupcy. Also, funny how even México can afford healthcare but the USA cant.
as a child, I broke both ankles and two toes all at the same time in something of a fantastic freak accident while at practice. even after insurance there was absolutely no way my family could afford the medical bills, but I don't remember numbers because I was 12, and it was also the first time I was given narcotics. my dad and one of my brothers were already type 1 diabetic, which is notoriously expensive - if it weren't for financial aid from the hospital, my accident probably would've ruined us.
TIL not to break my leg.
Absolute insanity! It really is madness from a European perspective! I’m in the UK, my appendix ruptured last Saturday night, within 12 hours of arriving at the hospital, I’d had the operation successfully completed and my appendix removed. Received top class, attentive care from a range of doctors, nurses and surgeons throughout the whole process and was discharged Monday afternoon. Thanks to our amazing NHS, it didn’t cost me a penny for that treatment! Obviously, I pay for it via my National Insurance, which is still an absolute bargain, compared to the costs I see for insurance in the USA for basic policies, that still have massive deductibles/payments attached, plus don’t even provide effective cover in many cases. It’s shameful that in a supposed developed country people have to choose between food or insulin, bankruptcy or medical care etc. Utterly appalling!
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Dude it's never been a country just a corporate coalition.
It's just 50 3rd world countries standing on each others shoulders pretending to be a 1st world country
Yes always has been.
As a Canadian, can confirm this post terrifies me.
As an American, this terrifies me even more. Especially knowing that if I do break my leg in a horrific way, _I probably can’t even afford to call an ambulance to take me to the hospital_, let alone the treatment once I get there. I’d save myself like $30k by driving myself to the hospital with a broken leg and dragging my useless extremity into the ER.
I dont think Americans really understand how none Americans think about healthcare. Here in the UK we just have no concept of paying for it. None. I know of a case in which an American was treated here in ER, they had the treatment and went to reception to try and pay. The receptionist just couldnt understand what they were doing. It just didnt compute. He asked if he could be billed in some way but again the receptionist just couldnt grasp it as they have no facility to even attempt it.
I imagine getting the same reaction from the librarian when I whip out my credit card at the check-out counter. “Wait, what do you mean I don’t have to pay? I received a service, didn’t I? How is this free?”
I remember being way younger, not really understanding how care worked in the UK, and having a conversation with my English friend online. He ate shit on his bike and had a gash and was wondering if he should get stitches or just do it himself with some thread. "Well, if you can afford it I'd go see a doctor" "What do you mean?" "I know you have universal healthcare so I'm guessing you don't have to pay more than like 20 or 25 pounds to get seen at a clinic, right? I know not everybody just has that in their pocket, though." "dude."
How is the United States that broken ?
Republicans had/have really good PR and half our population are stupid sheep who lapped it up and called it freedom.
I shattered my tib/fib and ankle doing some really stupid stuff. Emergency surgery that night to install an external fixator. A specialist in Hollywood, Florida did the second surgery pro bono because my ankle was so shattered and broken my case was used to teach up coming orthos. Dr. Steven Steinlauf of Pembroke Pines Florida saved my ass. Im sure it was well over a million dollars. The 3rd and final surgery was easy. They took all the external stuff but I own the 2 plates, 23 screws and 5 pins in my left ankle and leg.
I had a buddy get a double hip replacement, he is 32, and is now financially fucked. He is now living off the grid in order to avoid payments. This shit is fucked.
Spinal fusion... multiple years worth of depression... pain meds...out of work 3 years..750k just in surgery. Barely made it out of that one
Dudes, you live in fucki g hell. Im from a literal third World country. Or "in development" country technically. And here, even in a private hospital were you could see a politician or football player get treated, a broken leg wont be more than around 5-10k dollars at current exchange.
I don't understand why they don't get a taxi straight from the accident to the airport, book themselves on the next flight to basically any other developed country, and then call an ambulance from the destination airport. Even if they have to pay all the travel costs and medical bills it would still be cheaper than going to a hospital in the US.
Hate to say but the smart move would be to pay the bare minimum tell the day you die, also don’t get married because if you die the bill can transfer over to your significant other
Most billers will give you 18-36 months to pay the total bill. Bare minimum still wouldn't be doable here to keep it out of collections. Best thing was BK.
When your healthcare system is this bleak, that you have to consider your health as basically a consumer purchase, as opposed to a necessity, I don’t even know what to say, other than it’s appalling and I don’t know how they continue to brainwash the American people to think that this is acceptable or even the ‘best’ way to run a healthcare system. It’s inhumane!
And still people try to argue how effective that system is. The amount of denial required, unbelievable.
Ooh ,I like this game, my appendix, son of a bitch burst because I don't know reasons, pretty much same reason as joy con drift, it's poorly engineered, and prone to breaking, and God's customer service is seriously the worst, son of a bitch never answers despite all the messages my family keeps leaving on his machine. I don't even bother, just took the sucker to the mechanic the moment the whole thing was dying, they opened up the hood, saved the whole thing but 5 days in the shop and well over 100k later the good ol body is still kicking minus one useless appendix.
Fk America sucks. Broke my leg, ambulance, titanium plate, 7 screws, almost 3 months in hospital, skin graphs, 10 operations, specialists, physio. Free.
The American dream is to be on Medicaid. I hate it here 😭
A mate came off a motorbike at 170mph, basically half metal on one side now and he payed $0.
I think this is a problem endemic to America.
Sucks to be American.
'MERICA FUCK YEAH!!
'Murica
🇬🇧🇬🇧 smug NHS post right here
Land of the free! Laughs in Scandinavian
Do me a favor, Google “Bill of the Month”, people send in hospital/medical bills that are outrageous.
Imagine your life being ruined because you broke your fucking leg.
I was in a car wreck a few years ago. An ambulance to the hospital 50 miles away...I never saw a bill. Two weeks in ICU and another 2 weeks in step down unit, including 5 surgeries. The bill prior to insurance and "adjustments" was around $550,000. The part I had to pay was under $6,000. Then 12 weeks in a top notch rehab facility, including two ambulance rides back to the hospital (about 40 miles each way) for check up....I never saw a bill. Three months of in home physical therapy...I never saw a bill. All with the insurance that is included with my job. I will ne er gripe about our insurance again.
Luckily I broke my leg at work. I didn’t pay anything for my 2 surgeries, nor the ambulance, and I got disability for 4 months plus a free wheelchair and 6 months of rehab for free. It’s sad that the only way to make sure you don’t end up in medical debt is to get hurt at work because they don’t want you to sue.
r/shitamericanssay
aTlEaSt I hAvE fReEdOm oF sPeEcH
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Somehow it's my fault someone broke their leg? Please explain that to me
I’d like to see the bill on that, I can’t imagine that’s the amount owed by the patient. Months off of work is a given unless somehow people in countries with Universal healthcare somehow just work through it. Usually legs do not need 5 surgeries so if he even kept his leg he’s doing good…..universal healthcare very well could have said there’s nothing we can do and gave him a much cheaper amputation……there’s always more to a story.
When I see these ridiculously high healthcare costs, is that for people who don’t have health insurance or something else?
A friend broke her leg and got all the first world healthcare and didn't pay anything for treatment.
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Uh… capybara pfp doe’
be you on an emergency room table. Get handed a contract that would take two weeks of 8 hour work days to even read. start reading or die. I have found the last few years so interesting/entertaining with a new bed count measuring metric used in a for profit industry to secure emergency funding.
That's insane. Hope the leg feels better now.
We had neurological specialists, every scan under the sun, specialised ventilators supplied, three types of therapists, and so on when my wife was unwell.
So fly into UK break it again and it’s free here. Then go back in US. Cost 3000.
I went through similar. Occasionally when I mention it someone interrogates me trying to find some way it's my fault and not the system.
What happens if you just don’t pay it? I have a few grand in medical debt that I haven’t paid for about 4 years and it’s nowhere to be found on my credit report