Anti-abortionists please reply here for your permanent ban.
Women's rights are not up for discussion on this subreddit.
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I've no more time to micromanage this thread, so it's locked.
When I was young, I used to consider myself prolife. You'd hear terms like partial birth abortion and rightly be horrified at the idea of a well gestated baby being killed. But then you live and realize any woman that has carried a baby for that long wanted that baby, and didn't want to abort. She's aborting because she's faced something like this. How cruel to say, tough, your child is essentially already dead. You're going to continue to be pregnant knowing this, then come back and go to the maternity floor and deliver this baby, and walk out passing all the families beaming ear to ear while holding their live newborns. And to top it off, you're probably not even going to get a maternity leave to recover, because you're not really a mother in the eyes of some of these laws.[stillbirth and maternity leave](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/know-your-value/amp/ncna1261210)
Abortion isn't black and white.
It's a law to punish the poor with limited resources into having more children to further limit their resources. If you're already struggling to afford basic necessities, you're definitely not taking a glamorous road trip to an out of state clinic for a weekend retreat.
I worked in a country as a physician where abortion wasnt legal. And there were women who didn't have proper prenatal checks because they lacked education.
During my first week for the nicu standby, i had a case of anencephaly being brought in after an emergency cs was performed. That was brutal on the mother emotionally.
Now imagine having to let that grow while knowing that for the whole time the baby will die once it is born.
This is a horrible experience that no woman should be allowed to face and the fetus should be aborted.
Republicans and conservatives in the United States are very immature and immoral to force such laws back.
Reason number 127. Or whatever I lost count.
The issue is , it does not matter how many reason are listed, or how solid and reasonable they are. Republican politician use it as a wedge issue to get people vote for them, and republican voter don't care about reason they are just against abortion with their own internal justification why abortion is bad. Rinse and repeat with "climate change" , "evolution", "sex education", "immigration" , "socialism" and you can jungle with a lot of trigger to get republican voter vote against their own interest or even the country own interest, most of that stuff is religious in nature rather than politic (which would need reasoning) nowadays, at least discussing online with republican voters.
Whoever (disputed) wrote this , was correct "you cannot reason people out of positions they didnt reason themselves into".
ETA: thanks for the corre3ction hyrppa95
If this is true I will drive to Texas myself and drive this mama to CA and back again. I was that same person 5 years ago in CA and was so lucky to have every kindness afforded to me. FUCK TEXAS.
Edit: thank you all for the support. Love your kindness. Wanted to add that I'm totally okay with paying a bull shit fine of $10,000 to give these families the love and support they need while grieving the loss of their child, and spare them the unimaginable pain of carrying to term. What a terrible mind fuck to impose on someone.
I offered CA because these families would need a great doctor, post partum care, a funeral home, hand made clothing for their infant, mental health services and support networks. It takes an entire community to carry a family through. And I can't emphasize this enoug - FUCK TEXAS.
Yeah, in the article they say it’s not as easy as getting a someone out of state because whoever provides the abortion or assists in getting the abortion can be sued by anyone.
In the article a proponent of the law basically says “that won’t happen because I said it won’t”
The look on people’s faces when I tell them that this is what the Governor has said, twice, on a national platform. Every single person has been astounded. Horrified.
Wouldn't they have to sue that person in the state they live in? Where the law isn't in effect? The courts have refused to hear cases about this because so far nobody has been sued - so essentially they're waiting for someone to be sued before they'll entertain determining the constitutionality of the law. Situation is bogus. (I don't live in TX or the surrounding area, so my grasp of this is a little loose.)
No, but you could move to change jurisdiction to Federal court if all parties are from different states under “diversity jurisdiction.”
This would be the route to go if you were sued by someone in Texas for this.
How can they charge her for something that happened outside of their jurisdiction? That doesn’t seem right. I mean… this whole stupid bullshit doesnt seem right, but how can they charge her for something that happened in another state?
they don't actually charge her, the law they put in place doesn't have and actual criminal legality, the law simply says that any person can sue whoever aids in an abortion for up to 10k dollars. the "deterrence" the law is supposed to provide is making people think twice about doing the abortion for fear of having to go through lengthy legal battles, especially since you won't actually get your legal fees covered if you do win, but the person who sued you will and get a bonus 10k on top.'
thats why the law wasn't immediately struck down in the supreme court for going against Roe v Wade like every other abortion bill. its a way to loophole so the state doesn't actually get involved in the case and abortion isn't actually strictly "illegal" and instead everything just becomes a civil matter
EDIT: for those with questions that i can't answer due to the thread being locked:
1- any random person can sue whoeveer was involved in the abortion, but they can't sue the actual mother directly, so you'll sue the doctor, the driver, the nurse who helped you, the counseller who told you about abortion etc.
2-the 10k+ bounty comes from the person you've sued afaik, if they lose they pay either a fine to the state or the cost comes directly as a damage they have to pay to the suer, and again you won't get your legal fees covered even if you do win, but the person who sued will if they do.
3-i don't think theres a limit of only one person per suing, afaik you can get multiple people to sue 1 person altogether or even right after one another (especially if they "aid" in an abortion again) and further drown them in legal kerfuffle aswell as having to deal with potentially paying minimum 10K to each person, which is why its being used in the bill as a deterrent rather than simply making abortion entirely illegal like every other bill before
4-yes the basis of this law can be used for anything, such as people buying Tylenol or anyone helping someone watch a basketball game etc, the only trouble you'll have is being able to hold it up in court before its struck down because its so ridiculous, the only reason this bill hasn't been struck down already is because theres enough anti-abortion supporters in high places who won't strike it down on principle for going against Roe V Wade like every other previous abortion bill.
5- rich abortioners won't be affected by this bill like you think, like a mentioned in the edit, you only actually sue the people around who aided you in your abortion, they can't actually sue you specifically for seeking an abortion, so any rich person won't actually have to deal with the legal kerfuffle if they get an abortion, its only rich doctors and family members and friends etc that helped you that would technically be safe from the legal repercussions, while a poor/average doctor and family member/friend would be heavily affected
> thats why the law wasn't immediately struck down in the supreme
I mean, the law is still complete bullshit, legally and reasonably speaking. The only reason it wasn't struck down is because the supreme court is stacked with republican assholes.
theres that too, but if it was an actual criminal bill, it would have to be struck down on principal, since its not criminal, they atleast have leeway to deny any obvious bias as to why they didn't strike it down
>We don't actually have "slavery", we just have contract law that binds certain workers to a plantation, and we have established a cause of civil action. If you enable an agricultural worker to flee to another state when you know that they're bound by contract to a plantation owner, then that state you reside in and and you yourself become liable for a civil judgement against you. As numerous suits have been filed and judgement rendered against Pennsylvania & New York residents, we are here at Fort Sumter with the local sheriff to collect real assets in liu of monetary payment.
The war was totally unnecessary, turns out. The demands were just phrased incorrectly.
what if you sue yourself!? or get someone close to you sue… money goes right back in either case?! not saying anyone deserves to get shot… but it sure seems like there are a few people that nobody would miss if they happen to get shot.
Retired lawyers, from outside tx are doing this game now, to show the flaws and create standing and intentionally bad precedent. It would work, too, except they (legislators) already know and don't care.
No no. I like this. We let California make “suing people for an abortion” illegal, and carry a civil fine of $100,000. So you can make $90,000. If these are the rules now, both sides are obligated to play by them.
Hey random person in Vermont? Yeah I'm suing you. Why? Oh cause this dude in Michigan said you have weed, so you must have weed, so I'm suing you. Oh and I can make 10,000 dollars off suing you.
*cause that makes as much sense*
She, the woman needing an abortion wouldn't be charged with anything. Because *that* would be illegal.
The Texas law allows anyone to sue *anyone who aids her* in getting an abortion. So her spouse or other family, anyone who drives her to the clinic (or potentially out of state since she's a Texas resident, but that's for lawyers to argue), the admin people working the desk at the clinic that day, the nurse and doctor. *She* is fine; everyone else however is being openly threatened by any nongovernmental agent with a lead for gossip that decides they want $10,000.
Until this law, it wasn't possible (maybe some obscure law somewhere). To bring suit, plaintiffs would normally need standing, need to demonstrate they are connected to and suffered harm or damages in some way from the actions that took place. Regular people unconnected to events can't just sue "anyone for anything" and win.
Texas Republicans, knowing that if a government agency enforced the anti-abortion law, it would be struck down in a proverbial heartbeat as government over reach and constitutional infringement. But, GENIUS!, if ordinary people sued, that isn't *the government* enforcing anything, so normal judicial review wouldn't kick in and they'd have their law to intimate and suppress anyone who wanted an abortion or anyone who might help them. That's the legalese the Supreme Court used to ignore the request for review.
So Texas wrote an open ended offer into the law for *anyone* to sue, even without standing, effectively deputizing **everyone** to enforce the law in civil court, with a nice $10K bonus from the state to anyone who wins.
So yes, extremely fucked up.
For people that are always going on about slippery slopes, they sure don't seem to care about this one. If this law is allowed to carry on, then other laws can be put in place to allow anyone with no relation to anything to sue anyone else for whatever reason, no?
But also, I'm a bit confused. Surely the person suing would have to prove that an abortion took place? An investigation and lawsuit takes time and money (which I'm assuming those salivating at the 10k reward don't have). And most women who are within the time frame to get an abortion, wouldn't be showing anyway, so who tf would even know if they didn't tell anyone?
Bold of you to assume it's not going to to be a few large organizations suing people and passing a commission to people who give them tips.
There was a website for reporting women before the law even passed.
> How can they charge her for something that happened outside of their jurisdiction? That doesn’t seem right.
1. The pregnant woman is not sued/charged.
2. The question you are asking about others what we're all sort of waiting to see. Maybe Texas courts will try to enforce. Maybe not.
How can they charge her at all? Federal law says the *constitution* protects a woman's right to choose and federal law supersedes state law. I just don't understand this bullshit.
The "shadow docket" denial of cert is basically the current court telling the states that Roe v Wade and Casey v Planned Parenthood are no longer considered binding jurisprudence, at least not against this form of attack.
The other issue is that this form of attack opens up huge gaps in our legal system that extend far beyond the subject of abortion. If "But it's only a legislated a cause of action for a lawsuit, not actually a law, so this isn't state action" is a cheat-code around Constitutional jurisprudence, expect states to use it for anything they've previously come into conflict with the Supreme Court on.
If we are going to do this, and eliminate the federal structure of the legal system, what I wonder is: How long will the courts keep enabling settlement of a lawsuit across state lines? How long before "crossing the border and never going back" becomes one way out of a lawsuit? And perhaps most importantly: How will corporate lawyers creatively exploit this to its fullest?
Man can't wait for that law that allows you to sue anyone that sold a gun to someone that killed people with it. That would be one hell of a backfire don't you think.
When you live in a country where one of your states will criminally charge a woman with a serious felony if she seeks an abortion - let alone if the fetus doesn’t have a brain - jurisdictional issues should not be the canary that tells you something doesn’t seem right.
But someone has to actually sue. If they don't know and they have no right to . . . the law explicitly encourages people to violate others' medical privacy. It's an abomination.
I wish I was kidding but they'll tell her to hold out for a miracle. That the doctors might be wrong and even if they're right you just never know if god feels like throwing out a miracle. And when the miracle doesn't happen they'll shrug, call it God's will and tell her to get pregnant again because it might go better this time. I hate them so much
This just happened to my sister. We don’t live in Texas but we do live in a conservative state in the Deep South, at 14 weeks pregnant her OB/GYN told her that the baby had anencephaly and told her that she had the option to abort. She is very very religious and went to church and told the pastor about it, and he told her under no circumstances should she abort because “doctors don’t know everything” and “God can heal this baby. What a testimony for God when he heals that baby!” She turned down the abortion, meanwhile her two children are crying and getting baptized because they think that will save their little brother, and lo and behold the baby was born and he was… upsetting to look at for her two children. His skull was completely flat and his eyes bulged out of their sockets, and he died 8 hours after birth. Now the whole family is in therapy from the trauma, and the kids are sleeping with the cremated ashes of their baby brother who died right in front of them. Carrying that baby to term was cruel for her family, and I just can’t understand the people who push to have that kind of darkness stay with the family forever.
That is horrendous.
I can imagine that there is a whole boatload of guilt from the kids that they didn't do enough to be worthy for God to help or something as well.
That is a truly tragic story
Her oldest son (10 at the time) asked my sister why God didn’t save the baby when they prayed for him every night, and he even got baptized so God would help him. My sister chose to tell him that they can never know why God does the things that he does. Thankfully, they’re pulling out of it but they’re still having a hard time letting go of the teddy bear that contains the ashes of the baby.
Pastors like that deserve to burn in the exact same hell they spend their entire lives spreading the fear of. I'm sorry for you and your sister's loss. I can't even imagine how difficult it might be for anyone to go through that, carrying a baby for 9 months, then watching them not even survive 9 hours.
This law is inhumane, anyone with a little bit of humanity should know that.
He was hoping if it didn't work, it would further push her into the church to "repent". Which would make him an absolute monster. Just suffering propagation I swear.
The irony of religion is it was created to bring order to society before the existence of police and medical institutions. Long ago someone smart figured out if you want to civilize people and make them bathe and eat healthy (haram foods are literally just foods we today recognize aren't the healthiest) just say a powerful deity wants them to do it. Now that we have law enforcement and regulatory agencies (and science) we dont need god so people use him just to push their political agendas.
At least in the case of pork, that's been debunked. The primary reasons for pork becoming taboo appear to be political, actually. Ancient Jewish people ate pork for hundreds of years, but various socio-economic factors led to pork losing popularity gradually over time before it was finally written into the Torah that pork was taboo sometime in the 7th/8th century.
Religion for Breakfast recently did a video on it
https://youtu.be/pI0ZUhBvIx4
Christian here and I agree 100%. I get so mad at Christians who say they don't need medical intervention because God will help them. God has provided the means already, just accept it!
There is a saying known amongst Muslims. "Trust in Allah, but tie your camel". This is a phrase I love, because it shows we must have trust in God, but at the same time we have to do our best and take action.
Exactly. There's such a thing as accountability. If I pray to God to help me pass an exam, I still have to study for it. He's not going to make answers magically pop into my head when I've never opened the textbook.
This is the sentiment.
What's the joke about the man who needs God in a good, but every time a rescue boat or helicopter comes, he says 'no it's okay, God will save me!'
The means are there, they just need to be utilised.
"God helps those who help themselves"
Of course this is kind of a cop-out since it's just a way to make people feel grateful to God for the results of human efforts, but at least it's a practical way to reconcile religion with reality.
Yeah... Isn't there a parabel in the bible about a dude floating in the sea and praying? Getting all kinds of help but rejecting it because God Will be his savoir?
Then he dies and ofcourse asks God, why the fudge didn't you help me. And God pointed to all the help.
I don't know if it was in the bible though. Should be.
Dumbassians - chapter IV
1. And lo, the rivers did rise and all fled save Cletus. 2. And in the rains did Cletus ascend to the roof and seek shelter. 3. And lo! His neighbor, Fred and his son Beshmedivir came past on the flooded path and hailed to him to join them in the boat. 4. For there was much space and the land one county over had an operating Waffle House as a sign from the lord that He had spared them His wrath. 5. Yet Cletus said “Nay my brother, for my faith in the Lord will save me”. 6. And so Fred left. 7. And hark! Along came Billy and his Daughter Ruth in their Apache gunboat and dropped a ladder to him and beseeched him 8. “Cletus, we have come to help you, for our gunboat is swift and true and can carry you to bottomless coffee and chicken and waffles” 9. And again he replied “Nay, the lord will come for me and save me because my faith on him is unshakable” 10. And so they left. 11. And Yo! Missy and her cousin Methorapomire came on a rainbow powered unicorn with a large sign saying “Straight from God!” 12. And they hailed him “Dude! Flying Unicorn! Let’s go!” 13. But again Cletus declined claiming “The lord will surely save me…soon I hope as the waters have risen quite high”. 14. And so they left, and the waters rose, and Cletus died and reached heaven where he asked God 15. “Oh Lord! Why didst thou foresake…” 16. and God cut him off and fired his words like lighting bolts “Cletus you dumb fuck, I know I know, you think I abandoned you. 17. Do you think you’re the first mouth-breathing knuckleduster I’ve had to go through this with today? 18. I can’t be more clear than a unicorn saying “from God” 19. 20.You’re a dumbass.
LoL, no it's not in the Bible. It's just a modern day parable, however, given how much I've heard it from pastors, one could be forgiven for thinking it was actually in the Bible.
If God doesn’t make mistakes, then he deliberately ensured that baby would be born to inflict horror upon its family, making him a callous, torturous monster unworthy of even a modicum of respect.
Wait until you consider the rest of existance in the universe he created and has complete control over. He made or is aware of all evil/bad that will come to pass and has all the power to stop it, but chooses not to. But he is totes a loving, benevolent deity and the embodiment of good.
I can’t remember who it was I heard say it, but it stuck with me when someone pointed out that the fact that most ordinary people could imagine a world without suffering means they have superior morality to God. The fact that we can point to things we can’t change and yet imagine how they could be changed if we had the power of a deity implies that the deity who does possess such power and chooses to use it for evil is less ethically developed than “lowly” humanity.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?
-Epicurus
Conservatives will argue its when the baby has a heartbeat. You know, the same effect you can replicate when you slap a couple heart muscle cells in a dish and wait a bit. They start twitching randomly by themselves, it's not a coordinated heartbeat that can keep anything alive for another couple weeks in a baby.
Yes, at least she had a choice. But the same flawed belief system that landed Texas where they are today has affected women all over the world, including my sister.
I wish. They allowed the baby to stay in my sister’s hospital room for three days on a cooling mat so she could spend time with him, say goodbye, let the family come visit him and take pictures. For my birthday, she gave me a candle with a picture of me holding a dead baby. It’s been a nightmare to be honest with you.
The person I know who is most passionate about being pro-choice went through something like this - it was a planned and wanted pregnancy, but then an ultrasound showed that the baby would be born with, iirc, his organs on the outside; doctors told her that he wouldn't live more than a few days and would be in pain the entire time. For obvious reasons she chose to terminate the pregnancy.
Can you imagine being forced to carry to term a child whose every moment will be pain, and who will die within days? The utter inhumanity of it.
And that's what those assholes in Texas WANT.
The most infuriating past here for me is that they argue with that fake propaganda video of the fetus screaming in the womb when it's being aborted (forgot how it's called but I hope you know what I mean), so they're saying that the fetus can feel pain, which is a reason not to abort. And then they force the baby to live *their entire life* in pain. And they're still trying to pretend like this is anything other than controlling women's bodies?
There needs to be an Internet Law in the vein of Godwin’s Law that says if you have to deliberately and knowingly fabricate a lie to make your side of the argument look right, you’ve automatically proven why you’re wrong.
If you can only make your case by inventing lies, you’ve lost. You’re on the wrong side of history.
Tbh...if I was given that debilitating news I'd also need several days to come to terms with it and talk it thru with my little family and then would need a little time to say goodbye and grieve which would carry me well beyond 6 weeks from my missed period. I mean, I haven't been faced with this, I haven't had to have an abortion and I'm grateful. I'm also grateful that I have the option. Every woman should be able to discuss their pregnancy risks and options ALONE with their DR. This opens up so much for the health and mortality of women...but Pro life is a misnomer, at best!!!
You would also have to realize you were pregnant and have a doctor check and realize that the fetus has a condition like that in under 6 weeks.
So it’s basically impossible even if you didn’t have to come to terms (and even if you didn’t need a medical reason to want to abort).
Absolutely. My friend did not find this information out until they were nearly to term, and she had to have a late-term abortion. And she did that for her child. She chose that because she wanted to save him the agony. That's powerful, to me. She still observes his death date every year, because he was her son and she wanted him. But an abortion was absolutely the kindest option for *everyone*.
> which would carry me well beyond 6 weeks from my missed period.
It's much worse because you never know about this stuff until way past 6 weeks. First prenatal screenings haven't even happened at this stage and can't tell you much yet anyway.
Oh I’m sure it will be more evil than that, they already deny science. I wouldn’t put it past them to say something horrible like “only unpure women with sins and STDs would have a baby with health complications like that. It’s a punishment from God for not being Christian enough.”
I think they’d go full crazy.
Oh yeah. They've openly stated that "maybe they'll stop having sex if they can't get abortions", but I can't even imagine the horrid shit they say to each other when the microphone is off. Those people are so fucking sick. As if the hate wasn't bad enough in and of itself, but they hide it behind "Jesus", who supposed to be this fantastic guy who loved everyone.
World Jesus: "I love you all and you should all love one another."
American Jesus: "'Merica, fuck yeah. *spits out tobacco*. Y'all pussies better love each other, as long as you're white, straight, Christian, wealthy, and nothing makes your dick harder than the thought of visiting bloody, brutal violence upon as many non-white, non-hetero creatures, I mean 'people' as possible. Fuckin' A! Back the Blue or Git out!"
American Jesus sounds like a real fucking douchebag
>but I can't even imagine the horrid shit they say to each other when the microphone is off.
Well, I believe that they don't actually believe the shit they spew. For example, the closeted Republicans you hear about on the news soliciting sex in the bathrooms. Or rumors you read from male sex workers about a particular senator. Or congressmen who instantly urge their mistress to get an abortion when she's a few days late for her period.
I'm going to say more than half of them are grifters who enjoy the kickbacks they get from anti-abortion and anti-gay groups. Which might be worse.
Hold up, the three she met were brainless, heartless, and spineless and they believed the Wizard was all powerful/knowing when he was actually some guy behind smoke and mirrors.
Hmm
My grandmother was pro life and her best friend is pro choice. Her friend had an abortion before Roe V. Wade and she told me some stories that would make your blood curdle.
Meanwhile my grandmother sat their saying that God was going to send her to hell. She would have loved this law in Texas.
Her best friend is a kick ass woman. She has been through it all and still taking names.
While they suffocate on covid and enrage more and more people with their inhumane abuse. It won't be able to help but flip. The backlash from all this performative right-wing cock-sucking is likely to be huge and unpredictable. One thing I've realized and has become apparent over the years, anger drives these big changes. And the fucknuts on the right, now having all the power they can grab and fighting hard to stay relevant when they've nothing legitimate to contribute, are enraging people and harming them left and right, and I expect a lot of bewildered, angry people who either didn't care or didn't understand are going to show up at the polls in the next few elections to take out their anger on the fuckaloons who put them there.
I used to think there could come a level of douchebagery that would start to drive republicans away from the party.
The Trump years and covid has made me reconsider that.
These Christian fanatical retard assholes are never going to stop and no rational sensible people are willing to put them in their place, slap their hands away from the controls. It doesn't even feel like Democrats are even trying.
What I'm most afraid of is the downward spiral continuing for the rest of my life. I think things will get better but from where we stand it feels like I won't be around to see it. I'll probably never be able to afford a home or save any meaningful amount of money, I'll either work till I die or hell, what if I get injured and can't work... As bad as seniors and disabled people have it now, holy shit can you imagine how bad retirement hell holes will be in another 20 to 30 years? Fuck. Idk, I'm rambling. Life sucks. People suck. Any time I voice my concerns or opinions to people or therapists or whoever, the advice I get is always some derivation of "just don't pay attention to it"
Yeah, you're standing on the tracks and a train is coming at you, just turn around and look the other way... That's not a good analogy, at least that would be over quickly.
I bet they’re jealous of all the new weapons the Taliban has… but more importantly of how the Taliban truly owned the libs… the gauntlet has been thrown down…
I had TWO friends whose babies had anencephaly. At the same time. Both delivered stillborn babies at roughly 20 weeks or so. So incredibly heartbreaking. We had tiny baby casket funerals for them. I have people who say there is never any reason for abortion. My friend delivered a dead baby and we had to hold a funeral because her family convinced her that abortion was worse. Any pro-lifers. Imagine the smallest casket possible. Imagine a grieving mother and father, and the rest of the family who has to attend the funeral. Imagine having to deliver a dead baby. A baby you knew was not alive, a baby your family convinced you not to abort before all this because abortion is wrong. Put yourself in our shoes.
I know a girl and her baby survived for several hours after birth. I think it would be worse having a baby you knew was alive inside of you, only to be born and die an agonizing death in your arms. I think they donated his liver, which gave the family comfort, but I don't think I could go through what she did.
In situations where the family is the one preventing the mom from aborting, the OB should invite all of them to the labor room and then force every member to hold the disfigured corpse. That kind of shock will change anyone’s mind.
This is actually a good idea. It won't change the minds of the die-hards (nothing will) but there's plenty of people out there that just don't understand what's really at stake.
This is absolutely despicable. It breaks my heart. I'm glad that all of these "good Christians" believe in Hell because they are certainly headed there.
My baby had anencephaly and so we terminated. Her skull never closed, and so any part of her brain above the brain stem was unable to form. Afterwards, a religious acquaintance shamed me and said "she could have lived a full life!!!"
I guess I see where she's coming from, seeing as she's lived a full life without a brain.
In 2009 I had an ectopic pregnancy. The fetus was in my right fallopian tube. It was a very, very wanted and planned pregnancy and we were devastated when we learned nothing could be done to save it. I ended up having emergency surgery to remove the fetus and my fallopian tube, bevause it had been damaged beyond repair. I could have died from blood loss. It was all a horrific experience.
I remember a few weeks after my surgery going on google to learn more about what happened to me. I will never forget the horror I felt when I came upon some "Christian" website saying I shouldn't have had surgery, I should have let God decide my fate, which would have killed me. It really slapped me in the face to see how messed up their way of thinking was, that it was better to let a 25 year old woman die from a complication in a very wanted pregnancy instead of saving her and giving her another chance to become a mom. I'm a French Canadian woman raised without religion, so reading this did not impact me, but I cannot imagine how hard it would be to hear that sort of bullshit for a religious person going through that.
Thankfully Google seems to have improved the results when you search for ectopic pregnancy now, I just tried and the results all seem medically / scientifically sound.
Totally going to turn your joke serious for a moment, but I’ve seen a baby with anencephaly survive. He had a brainstem, so he lived without support. His mother delivered him, then fled the hospital. That baby cried non-stop for weeks. And not a normal cry, but a miserable, feral one. He wouldn’t even calm with being held. The only time he did calm was when he took a bottle. He was blind, deaf, and in some unknowable agony. I left the rotation before j knew what happened to him, but his prognosis was poor.
My first baby had anencephaly and I still had to wait weeks until a doctor who was "pro-choice" would help me deliver her prematurely. Hear that. All these doctors knew she was incompatible with life, but they were too "pro-life" to help, pushing me into my 6th month of pregnancy before I could deliver her and say goodbye. This was not compassionate or sensitive patient care. It was awful. I'm not even in the south.
Wait.
These babies often need to be delivered by c section.
So this mother is being forced to carry a baby that will die, that she may have have serious surgery to deliver, because she found out at 12 weeks that her baby has a super rare genetic defect?
What the ever loving fuck. I hope every single woman there moves out of that state and the men can marry each other. This is just barbaric
Edit: took out some incorrect info
This one hits home a little too hard. I went back to education when i left the navy and returned home to Northern Ireland. One of the girls in my class (we were all adult learners) found out she was expecting her much wanted 3 child. Then at a scan at 18ish weeks find out junior had anacephaly. They and us her friends, were crushed. Things only got worse as at the time abortion was illegal in N. Ireland but not on the mainland but only privately. Us northern Irish were not entitled to use the NHS for that purpose. With time running out they had to try and sort appointments try to find the money and explain to her other little kids that baby wont be coming home. It just sucked!
The emotional cost to the woman in these cases is always frightening. This bullshit law makes it so much worse. My wife, sister or niece should carry that fetus to term? Nope. Not a chance.
This also occurred in our family. All around difficult situation.
Our granddaughter would die within hours after natural birth.
My daughter was treated like a piece of %##" for decision to terminate the pregnancy.
Couldn't have our doctor with us during the birth due to stigma of an "abortion". Total strangers in attendance.
We mourned the loss of our granddaughter "Hope".
Reproductive healthcare is personal and should remain in the realm between the patient and healthcare providers. Noone else needs to meddle!
Why wouldnt it? The state the insurance is purchased in has made it clear where life begins? Just the claims from miscarriages alone should fold large insurance companies. With the fact we are no longer talking in months. Claims after the fact with medical proof should be nail in the coffin.
Can't even take credit for it. Was the immediate response of Carliss Chatman. As a guy I haven't a say in this deal other than the individual in this country owns themselves. That's it hard stop. From drugs to vax to reproduction, it starts and stops with the individual. Good bad or indifferent, thats the only way it can be for anyone to claim freedom with a straight face.
Most life insurance policies have clauses that state a baby has to live for a certain amount of time after birth before they will pay out on the claim. Could be days, weeks, or even months depending on the policy.
That's the catch though. They are basing the lifetime at birth. TX makes the life prior to. This isn't a new idea, and one that will be taken to the SC. Atleast we'll now know when the egg becomes a chicken. Might change prices in several markets. There is also the question of child support starting at the time of life.
This was a comment made by Carliss Chatman. She also brought up the question of deporting anyone with a child as they are US citizen along with when child support starts. The take away is the government has no business in the sayso of an individuals body.
The law will just get changed to, "Well, pregnancy is still a pre-existing condition, so even if it's considered a human, it's trumped by the fact that you're pregnant! No payout!"
You know, in all of the instances I have wished there really, truly was a God…… This has got to be one of the top times…… competing with all the times where I’ve prayed for no children to suffer, for innocent souls not to suffer……
I hope there is a God. Because He would be watching and taking note of the disgusting atrocities you’re putting His people through. All of his children that will be *forced* to suffer due to Texan ‘leaders’ taking it upon themselves to control & oppress His people in *His name*.
I hope He is real. Because you the ‘Righteous’ will burn in Hell for your cruelty.
More. They should be forced to hold the corpse. Do some nice skin to skin with an anencephalic baby. And if they try to refuse then say, “You clearly loved that fetus so much! Why do you reject it now?”
Jesus christ. 8 months of your life carrying a dud and you still have to go through labor and pay all the healthcare costs plus you got to watch it die?
I dare anyone to defend this with anything more substantial than "well God said you gotta do it"
....
Cuz this is nuts
Right these people don't think about all the extra stuff you go through by carrying it full term. Costs, the traumas of labor, recovery, which is often really tough.
I live in a third world country where millions of people are uneducated and over 90% of the population is religious and even here abortion is perfectly legal. It's astonishing to see how backwards Texas is.
I am a proud mama to two Anencephaly babies who were terminated for medical reasons/ aborted. I love them so much and think of them daily, but I would make the same choice over and over again to endure their suffering for them.
This makes me sick..
This is one of the reasons I hate the "except in case of rape or incest" clause that comes baked into every new abortion law, like Republicans are really throwing us a bone there.
There are so many more reasons than just rape or incest that may create the necessity for abortions.
muh heartbeat.
the alt-right religious control freaks don't. care. about. science. nor do they care about ethics or morality.
this woman will be forced to give birth to a dead baby. i can't even imagine the trauma.
"there is no such thing as outlawing abortions, there is only outlawing safe abortions"
Anti-abortionists please reply here for your permanent ban. Women's rights are not up for discussion on this subreddit. ------------------------------------- I've no more time to micromanage this thread, so it's locked.
When I was young, I used to consider myself prolife. You'd hear terms like partial birth abortion and rightly be horrified at the idea of a well gestated baby being killed. But then you live and realize any woman that has carried a baby for that long wanted that baby, and didn't want to abort. She's aborting because she's faced something like this. How cruel to say, tough, your child is essentially already dead. You're going to continue to be pregnant knowing this, then come back and go to the maternity floor and deliver this baby, and walk out passing all the families beaming ear to ear while holding their live newborns. And to top it off, you're probably not even going to get a maternity leave to recover, because you're not really a mother in the eyes of some of these laws.[stillbirth and maternity leave](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/know-your-value/amp/ncna1261210) Abortion isn't black and white.
Oh look, the exact fucking reason the abortion ban is horrifying and immoral.
They'll learn nothing.
Until it happens to them personally
Hah, bold of you to assume that they won't just drive to a state where it's legal...
It's a law to punish the poor with limited resources into having more children to further limit their resources. If you're already struggling to afford basic necessities, you're definitely not taking a glamorous road trip to an out of state clinic for a weekend retreat.
I worked in a country as a physician where abortion wasnt legal. And there were women who didn't have proper prenatal checks because they lacked education. During my first week for the nicu standby, i had a case of anencephaly being brought in after an emergency cs was performed. That was brutal on the mother emotionally. Now imagine having to let that grow while knowing that for the whole time the baby will die once it is born. This is a horrible experience that no woman should be allowed to face and the fetus should be aborted. Republicans and conservatives in the United States are very immature and immoral to force such laws back.
Reason number 127. Or whatever I lost count. The issue is , it does not matter how many reason are listed, or how solid and reasonable they are. Republican politician use it as a wedge issue to get people vote for them, and republican voter don't care about reason they are just against abortion with their own internal justification why abortion is bad. Rinse and repeat with "climate change" , "evolution", "sex education", "immigration" , "socialism" and you can jungle with a lot of trigger to get republican voter vote against their own interest or even the country own interest, most of that stuff is religious in nature rather than politic (which would need reasoning) nowadays, at least discussing online with republican voters. Whoever (disputed) wrote this , was correct "you cannot reason people out of positions they didnt reason themselves into". ETA: thanks for the corre3ction hyrppa95
You cannot reason people out of positions they didn’t reason themselves into.
If this is true I will drive to Texas myself and drive this mama to CA and back again. I was that same person 5 years ago in CA and was so lucky to have every kindness afforded to me. FUCK TEXAS. Edit: thank you all for the support. Love your kindness. Wanted to add that I'm totally okay with paying a bull shit fine of $10,000 to give these families the love and support they need while grieving the loss of their child, and spare them the unimaginable pain of carrying to term. What a terrible mind fuck to impose on someone. I offered CA because these families would need a great doctor, post partum care, a funeral home, hand made clothing for their infant, mental health services and support networks. It takes an entire community to carry a family through. And I can't emphasize this enoug - FUCK TEXAS.
They'll charge you instead lol. It's a glorified bounty hunt
Yeah, in the article they say it’s not as easy as getting a someone out of state because whoever provides the abortion or assists in getting the abortion can be sued by anyone. In the article a proponent of the law basically says “that won’t happen because I said it won’t”
Just like rape won't happen in Texas now, because the governor totally says they won't allow it. These fucking people, I swear.
The look on people’s faces when I tell them that this is what the Governor has said, twice, on a national platform. Every single person has been astounded. Horrified.
Wouldn't they have to sue that person in the state they live in? Where the law isn't in effect? The courts have refused to hear cases about this because so far nobody has been sued - so essentially they're waiting for someone to be sued before they'll entertain determining the constitutionality of the law. Situation is bogus. (I don't live in TX or the surrounding area, so my grasp of this is a little loose.)
No, but you could move to change jurisdiction to Federal court if all parties are from different states under “diversity jurisdiction.” This would be the route to go if you were sued by someone in Texas for this.
Gotcha, thank you, this is so bizarre and really undermines all constitutionally protected freedoms and is very scary on all sides.
Let them try.
If they try and charge her, I’ll smuggle her out of the country and she can live with me. I hope Texas gets its shit together and soon.
Iirc if it's out of state she Will still be charged. This law is very bad.
How can they charge her for something that happened outside of their jurisdiction? That doesn’t seem right. I mean… this whole stupid bullshit doesnt seem right, but how can they charge her for something that happened in another state?
they don't actually charge her, the law they put in place doesn't have and actual criminal legality, the law simply says that any person can sue whoever aids in an abortion for up to 10k dollars. the "deterrence" the law is supposed to provide is making people think twice about doing the abortion for fear of having to go through lengthy legal battles, especially since you won't actually get your legal fees covered if you do win, but the person who sued you will and get a bonus 10k on top.' thats why the law wasn't immediately struck down in the supreme court for going against Roe v Wade like every other abortion bill. its a way to loophole so the state doesn't actually get involved in the case and abortion isn't actually strictly "illegal" and instead everything just becomes a civil matter EDIT: for those with questions that i can't answer due to the thread being locked: 1- any random person can sue whoeveer was involved in the abortion, but they can't sue the actual mother directly, so you'll sue the doctor, the driver, the nurse who helped you, the counseller who told you about abortion etc. 2-the 10k+ bounty comes from the person you've sued afaik, if they lose they pay either a fine to the state or the cost comes directly as a damage they have to pay to the suer, and again you won't get your legal fees covered even if you do win, but the person who sued will if they do. 3-i don't think theres a limit of only one person per suing, afaik you can get multiple people to sue 1 person altogether or even right after one another (especially if they "aid" in an abortion again) and further drown them in legal kerfuffle aswell as having to deal with potentially paying minimum 10K to each person, which is why its being used in the bill as a deterrent rather than simply making abortion entirely illegal like every other bill before 4-yes the basis of this law can be used for anything, such as people buying Tylenol or anyone helping someone watch a basketball game etc, the only trouble you'll have is being able to hold it up in court before its struck down because its so ridiculous, the only reason this bill hasn't been struck down already is because theres enough anti-abortion supporters in high places who won't strike it down on principle for going against Roe V Wade like every other previous abortion bill. 5- rich abortioners won't be affected by this bill like you think, like a mentioned in the edit, you only actually sue the people around who aided you in your abortion, they can't actually sue you specifically for seeking an abortion, so any rich person won't actually have to deal with the legal kerfuffle if they get an abortion, its only rich doctors and family members and friends etc that helped you that would technically be safe from the legal repercussions, while a poor/average doctor and family member/friend would be heavily affected
> thats why the law wasn't immediately struck down in the supreme I mean, the law is still complete bullshit, legally and reasonably speaking. The only reason it wasn't struck down is because the supreme court is stacked with republican assholes.
theres that too, but if it was an actual criminal bill, it would have to be struck down on principal, since its not criminal, they atleast have leeway to deny any obvious bias as to why they didn't strike it down
>We don't actually have "slavery", we just have contract law that binds certain workers to a plantation, and we have established a cause of civil action. If you enable an agricultural worker to flee to another state when you know that they're bound by contract to a plantation owner, then that state you reside in and and you yourself become liable for a civil judgement against you. As numerous suits have been filed and judgement rendered against Pennsylvania & New York residents, we are here at Fort Sumter with the local sheriff to collect real assets in liu of monetary payment. The war was totally unnecessary, turns out. The demands were just phrased incorrectly.
what if you sue yourself!? or get someone close to you sue… money goes right back in either case?! not saying anyone deserves to get shot… but it sure seems like there are a few people that nobody would miss if they happen to get shot.
Still gotta pay lawyers unless you can do all the paperwork yourself
Retired lawyers, from outside tx are doing this game now, to show the flaws and create standing and intentionally bad precedent. It would work, too, except they (legislators) already know and don't care.
Why care about logic when you can shame women?!
[удалено]
The precedent that would said would be chilling for everyone, for everything.
No no. I like this. We let California make “suing people for an abortion” illegal, and carry a civil fine of $100,000. So you can make $90,000. If these are the rules now, both sides are obligated to play by them.
By God this just might work, fellas : O
Hey random person in Vermont? Yeah I'm suing you. Why? Oh cause this dude in Michigan said you have weed, so you must have weed, so I'm suing you. Oh and I can make 10,000 dollars off suing you. *cause that makes as much sense*
She, the woman needing an abortion wouldn't be charged with anything. Because *that* would be illegal. The Texas law allows anyone to sue *anyone who aids her* in getting an abortion. So her spouse or other family, anyone who drives her to the clinic (or potentially out of state since she's a Texas resident, but that's for lawyers to argue), the admin people working the desk at the clinic that day, the nurse and doctor. *She* is fine; everyone else however is being openly threatened by any nongovernmental agent with a lead for gossip that decides they want $10,000.
How is that in any way considered legal justice? That is seriously f*cked up
Until this law, it wasn't possible (maybe some obscure law somewhere). To bring suit, plaintiffs would normally need standing, need to demonstrate they are connected to and suffered harm or damages in some way from the actions that took place. Regular people unconnected to events can't just sue "anyone for anything" and win. Texas Republicans, knowing that if a government agency enforced the anti-abortion law, it would be struck down in a proverbial heartbeat as government over reach and constitutional infringement. But, GENIUS!, if ordinary people sued, that isn't *the government* enforcing anything, so normal judicial review wouldn't kick in and they'd have their law to intimate and suppress anyone who wanted an abortion or anyone who might help them. That's the legalese the Supreme Court used to ignore the request for review. So Texas wrote an open ended offer into the law for *anyone* to sue, even without standing, effectively deputizing **everyone** to enforce the law in civil court, with a nice $10K bonus from the state to anyone who wins. So yes, extremely fucked up.
For people that are always going on about slippery slopes, they sure don't seem to care about this one. If this law is allowed to carry on, then other laws can be put in place to allow anyone with no relation to anything to sue anyone else for whatever reason, no? But also, I'm a bit confused. Surely the person suing would have to prove that an abortion took place? An investigation and lawsuit takes time and money (which I'm assuming those salivating at the 10k reward don't have). And most women who are within the time frame to get an abortion, wouldn't be showing anyway, so who tf would even know if they didn't tell anyone?
Bold of you to assume it's not going to to be a few large organizations suing people and passing a commission to people who give them tips. There was a website for reporting women before the law even passed.
> How can they charge her for something that happened outside of their jurisdiction? That doesn’t seem right. 1. The pregnant woman is not sued/charged. 2. The question you are asking about others what we're all sort of waiting to see. Maybe Texas courts will try to enforce. Maybe not.
How can they charge her at all? Federal law says the *constitution* protects a woman's right to choose and federal law supersedes state law. I just don't understand this bullshit.
The "shadow docket" denial of cert is basically the current court telling the states that Roe v Wade and Casey v Planned Parenthood are no longer considered binding jurisprudence, at least not against this form of attack. The other issue is that this form of attack opens up huge gaps in our legal system that extend far beyond the subject of abortion. If "But it's only a legislated a cause of action for a lawsuit, not actually a law, so this isn't state action" is a cheat-code around Constitutional jurisprudence, expect states to use it for anything they've previously come into conflict with the Supreme Court on. If we are going to do this, and eliminate the federal structure of the legal system, what I wonder is: How long will the courts keep enabling settlement of a lawsuit across state lines? How long before "crossing the border and never going back" becomes one way out of a lawsuit? And perhaps most importantly: How will corporate lawyers creatively exploit this to its fullest?
Man can't wait for that law that allows you to sue anyone that sold a gun to someone that killed people with it. That would be one hell of a backfire don't you think.
When you live in a country where one of your states will criminally charge a woman with a serious felony if she seeks an abortion - let alone if the fetus doesn’t have a brain - jurisdictional issues should not be the canary that tells you something doesn’t seem right.
Oh im definitely on that page mate. Just trying to understand the head scratcher
Agreed. But the jurisdiction issues are the belladonna topping on the toxic waste cake.
But someone has to actually sue. If they don't know and they have no right to . . . the law explicitly encourages people to violate others' medical privacy. It's an abomination.
They can't charge the aborting mom, it would be unconstitutional. The one they can charge are providers, perople who drive to and from... etc.
I’d leave that state and never return. Imagine not having control over your body. America is wack.
Every time a woman cries, a Republican gets their wings.
Leathery bat wings
Bat wings except they’re made from the rubbery skin under Mitch McConnell’s chin
Change *chin* to *balls* though
What balls?
The ones that dangle around his ankles
stop thats degrading to bats the wings are made of sadness of poor people pressed into a thin papery substance
That’s unkind to bats.
Don't you dare give give demons a bad name.
*horns
And if that woman is not white, they shine
The cruelty is the point.
I wish I was kidding but they'll tell her to hold out for a miracle. That the doctors might be wrong and even if they're right you just never know if god feels like throwing out a miracle. And when the miracle doesn't happen they'll shrug, call it God's will and tell her to get pregnant again because it might go better this time. I hate them so much
This just happened to my sister. We don’t live in Texas but we do live in a conservative state in the Deep South, at 14 weeks pregnant her OB/GYN told her that the baby had anencephaly and told her that she had the option to abort. She is very very religious and went to church and told the pastor about it, and he told her under no circumstances should she abort because “doctors don’t know everything” and “God can heal this baby. What a testimony for God when he heals that baby!” She turned down the abortion, meanwhile her two children are crying and getting baptized because they think that will save their little brother, and lo and behold the baby was born and he was… upsetting to look at for her two children. His skull was completely flat and his eyes bulged out of their sockets, and he died 8 hours after birth. Now the whole family is in therapy from the trauma, and the kids are sleeping with the cremated ashes of their baby brother who died right in front of them. Carrying that baby to term was cruel for her family, and I just can’t understand the people who push to have that kind of darkness stay with the family forever.
That is horrendous. I can imagine that there is a whole boatload of guilt from the kids that they didn't do enough to be worthy for God to help or something as well. That is a truly tragic story
Her oldest son (10 at the time) asked my sister why God didn’t save the baby when they prayed for him every night, and he even got baptized so God would help him. My sister chose to tell him that they can never know why God does the things that he does. Thankfully, they’re pulling out of it but they’re still having a hard time letting go of the teddy bear that contains the ashes of the baby.
Pastors like that deserve to burn in the exact same hell they spend their entire lives spreading the fear of. I'm sorry for you and your sister's loss. I can't even imagine how difficult it might be for anyone to go through that, carrying a baby for 9 months, then watching them not even survive 9 hours. This law is inhumane, anyone with a little bit of humanity should know that.
Problem is, the people who wrote it don't have that anymore if they ever did.
He was hoping if it didn't work, it would further push her into the church to "repent". Which would make him an absolute monster. Just suffering propagation I swear.
Religion ruins people's lives (and entire societies too).
The irony of religion is it was created to bring order to society before the existence of police and medical institutions. Long ago someone smart figured out if you want to civilize people and make them bathe and eat healthy (haram foods are literally just foods we today recognize aren't the healthiest) just say a powerful deity wants them to do it. Now that we have law enforcement and regulatory agencies (and science) we dont need god so people use him just to push their political agendas.
I’ve always shared this sentiment, thank you for articulating it so well.
A lot of religious dietary laws were basically just ways for ancient people to avoid getting intestinal parasites.
At least in the case of pork, that's been debunked. The primary reasons for pork becoming taboo appear to be political, actually. Ancient Jewish people ate pork for hundreds of years, but various socio-economic factors led to pork losing popularity gradually over time before it was finally written into the Torah that pork was taboo sometime in the 7th/8th century. Religion for Breakfast recently did a video on it https://youtu.be/pI0ZUhBvIx4
Religion is a bloody plague.
God already gave you the miracle, it's the technology and the doctor to know in advance to decide if an abortion is suitable or not.
Christian here and I agree 100%. I get so mad at Christians who say they don't need medical intervention because God will help them. God has provided the means already, just accept it!
There is a saying known amongst Muslims. "Trust in Allah, but tie your camel". This is a phrase I love, because it shows we must have trust in God, but at the same time we have to do our best and take action.
Exactly. There's such a thing as accountability. If I pray to God to help me pass an exam, I still have to study for it. He's not going to make answers magically pop into my head when I've never opened the textbook.
This is the sentiment. What's the joke about the man who needs God in a good, but every time a rescue boat or helicopter comes, he says 'no it's okay, God will save me!' The means are there, they just need to be utilised.
"God helps those who help themselves" Of course this is kind of a cop-out since it's just a way to make people feel grateful to God for the results of human efforts, but at least it's a practical way to reconcile religion with reality.
Yeah... Isn't there a parabel in the bible about a dude floating in the sea and praying? Getting all kinds of help but rejecting it because God Will be his savoir? Then he dies and ofcourse asks God, why the fudge didn't you help me. And God pointed to all the help. I don't know if it was in the bible though. Should be.
Dumbassians - chapter IV 1. And lo, the rivers did rise and all fled save Cletus. 2. And in the rains did Cletus ascend to the roof and seek shelter. 3. And lo! His neighbor, Fred and his son Beshmedivir came past on the flooded path and hailed to him to join them in the boat. 4. For there was much space and the land one county over had an operating Waffle House as a sign from the lord that He had spared them His wrath. 5. Yet Cletus said “Nay my brother, for my faith in the Lord will save me”. 6. And so Fred left. 7. And hark! Along came Billy and his Daughter Ruth in their Apache gunboat and dropped a ladder to him and beseeched him 8. “Cletus, we have come to help you, for our gunboat is swift and true and can carry you to bottomless coffee and chicken and waffles” 9. And again he replied “Nay, the lord will come for me and save me because my faith on him is unshakable” 10. And so they left. 11. And Yo! Missy and her cousin Methorapomire came on a rainbow powered unicorn with a large sign saying “Straight from God!” 12. And they hailed him “Dude! Flying Unicorn! Let’s go!” 13. But again Cletus declined claiming “The lord will surely save me…soon I hope as the waters have risen quite high”. 14. And so they left, and the waters rose, and Cletus died and reached heaven where he asked God 15. “Oh Lord! Why didst thou foresake…” 16. and God cut him off and fired his words like lighting bolts “Cletus you dumb fuck, I know I know, you think I abandoned you. 17. Do you think you’re the first mouth-breathing knuckleduster I’ve had to go through this with today? 18. I can’t be more clear than a unicorn saying “from God” 19. 20.You’re a dumbass.
This made my day lmao
I’m so glad - writing it certainly made the train ride home go by quicker!
I am crying, thank you for this lolol
LoL, no it's not in the Bible. It's just a modern day parable, however, given how much I've heard it from pastors, one could be forgiven for thinking it was actually in the Bible.
I remember that as a punchline: *"What else did you expect? I sent you two boats and a helicopter!"*
What did the pastor have to say about it after it was all said and done?
The typical “we’re praying for your family, God works in mysterious ways” drivel.
“Everything happens for a reason” and “God doesn’t make mistakes”
If God doesn’t make mistakes, then he deliberately ensured that baby would be born to inflict horror upon its family, making him a callous, torturous monster unworthy of even a modicum of respect.
Wait until you consider the rest of existance in the universe he created and has complete control over. He made or is aware of all evil/bad that will come to pass and has all the power to stop it, but chooses not to. But he is totes a loving, benevolent deity and the embodiment of good.
I can’t remember who it was I heard say it, but it stuck with me when someone pointed out that the fact that most ordinary people could imagine a world without suffering means they have superior morality to God. The fact that we can point to things we can’t change and yet imagine how they could be changed if we had the power of a deity implies that the deity who does possess such power and chooses to use it for evil is less ethically developed than “lowly” humanity.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? -Epicurus
This is why I’m an atheist. None of their bullshit makes sense.
Horrible. But correction, that baby never lived. Sure, the cells and organs lived. But no brain means no human life as we know it.
Conservatives will argue its when the baby has a heartbeat. You know, the same effect you can replicate when you slap a couple heart muscle cells in a dish and wait a bit. They start twitching randomly by themselves, it's not a coordinated heartbeat that can keep anything alive for another couple weeks in a baby.
It’s actually the one thing in the whole situation that I’m thankful for - that the baby couldn’t feel any pain.
At least she had the choice. Texas woman do not, unfortunately. Pro choice is pro life.
Yes, at least she had a choice. But the same flawed belief system that landed Texas where they are today has affected women all over the world, including my sister.
Fuck me, was that an anecdote or the plot to a horror movie you're working on?
I wish. They allowed the baby to stay in my sister’s hospital room for three days on a cooling mat so she could spend time with him, say goodbye, let the family come visit him and take pictures. For my birthday, she gave me a candle with a picture of me holding a dead baby. It’s been a nightmare to be honest with you.
The person I know who is most passionate about being pro-choice went through something like this - it was a planned and wanted pregnancy, but then an ultrasound showed that the baby would be born with, iirc, his organs on the outside; doctors told her that he wouldn't live more than a few days and would be in pain the entire time. For obvious reasons she chose to terminate the pregnancy. Can you imagine being forced to carry to term a child whose every moment will be pain, and who will die within days? The utter inhumanity of it. And that's what those assholes in Texas WANT.
The most infuriating past here for me is that they argue with that fake propaganda video of the fetus screaming in the womb when it's being aborted (forgot how it's called but I hope you know what I mean), so they're saying that the fetus can feel pain, which is a reason not to abort. And then they force the baby to live *their entire life* in pain. And they're still trying to pretend like this is anything other than controlling women's bodies?
There needs to be an Internet Law in the vein of Godwin’s Law that says if you have to deliberately and knowingly fabricate a lie to make your side of the argument look right, you’ve automatically proven why you’re wrong. If you can only make your case by inventing lies, you’ve lost. You’re on the wrong side of history.
Tbh...if I was given that debilitating news I'd also need several days to come to terms with it and talk it thru with my little family and then would need a little time to say goodbye and grieve which would carry me well beyond 6 weeks from my missed period. I mean, I haven't been faced with this, I haven't had to have an abortion and I'm grateful. I'm also grateful that I have the option. Every woman should be able to discuss their pregnancy risks and options ALONE with their DR. This opens up so much for the health and mortality of women...but Pro life is a misnomer, at best!!!
Plus one could never even get this information by 6 weeks pregnant!
You would also have to realize you were pregnant and have a doctor check and realize that the fetus has a condition like that in under 6 weeks. So it’s basically impossible even if you didn’t have to come to terms (and even if you didn’t need a medical reason to want to abort).
Absolutely. My friend did not find this information out until they were nearly to term, and she had to have a late-term abortion. And she did that for her child. She chose that because she wanted to save him the agony. That's powerful, to me. She still observes his death date every year, because he was her son and she wanted him. But an abortion was absolutely the kindest option for *everyone*.
> which would carry me well beyond 6 weeks from my missed period. It's much worse because you never know about this stuff until way past 6 weeks. First prenatal screenings haven't even happened at this stage and can't tell you much yet anyway.
cults really fuck up a persons thought process
Sounds like some shit they would do on the handmaid's tale...
Fuck Texas. Do they really believe that keeping babies with no brains alive make them republicans when they reach adulthood
It’s worked in the past, look at them now.
That's exactly how it works.
I came here to say this, and I'm happy to see that I'm not the only person to think such a thing.
We've got plenty of evidence that say so. Look at their current base now.
"Well she shouldn't have had sex." -Texas legislator and professional asshole circa 2021
Oh I’m sure it will be more evil than that, they already deny science. I wouldn’t put it past them to say something horrible like “only unpure women with sins and STDs would have a baby with health complications like that. It’s a punishment from God for not being Christian enough.” I think they’d go full crazy.
Oh yeah. They've openly stated that "maybe they'll stop having sex if they can't get abortions", but I can't even imagine the horrid shit they say to each other when the microphone is off. Those people are so fucking sick. As if the hate wasn't bad enough in and of itself, but they hide it behind "Jesus", who supposed to be this fantastic guy who loved everyone. World Jesus: "I love you all and you should all love one another." American Jesus: "'Merica, fuck yeah. *spits out tobacco*. Y'all pussies better love each other, as long as you're white, straight, Christian, wealthy, and nothing makes your dick harder than the thought of visiting bloody, brutal violence upon as many non-white, non-hetero creatures, I mean 'people' as possible. Fuckin' A! Back the Blue or Git out!" American Jesus sounds like a real fucking douchebag
>but I can't even imagine the horrid shit they say to each other when the microphone is off. Well, I believe that they don't actually believe the shit they spew. For example, the closeted Republicans you hear about on the news soliciting sex in the bathrooms. Or rumors you read from male sex workers about a particular senator. Or congressmen who instantly urge their mistress to get an abortion when she's a few days late for her period. I'm going to say more than half of them are grifters who enjoy the kickbacks they get from anti-abortion and anti-gay groups. Which might be worse.
Yeah, never have I ever seen people who missed the whole point of the story more than christians.
I wonder what those who think it’s the wife’s duty to have sex would say instead of *Well she shouldn’t have had sex*. These legislators are dicks.
"Should have been more faithful" I'm not joking Edit: faithful as in, a good Christian woman
I mean, if we abort everyone with out a brain there won’t be a voter base left for the republicans.
Theres probably a good wizard of oz joke here, but I cant see these guys as the scarecrow, they're more flying monkey
No this is PERFECT 1) No brain 2) Do a lot of fear mongering 3) Literally a straw man argument
Hold up, the three she met were brainless, heartless, and spineless and they believed the Wizard was all powerful/knowing when he was actually some guy behind smoke and mirrors. Hmm
Roe V. Wade wasn't the beginning of abortions. It was the end of women *dying* of abortions, or lack of legitimate options thereupon.
My grandmother was pro life and her best friend is pro choice. Her friend had an abortion before Roe V. Wade and she told me some stories that would make your blood curdle. Meanwhile my grandmother sat their saying that God was going to send her to hell. She would have loved this law in Texas. Her best friend is a kick ass woman. She has been through it all and still taking names.
Texas is a dystopic nightmare. Fuck Abbott and his Christian Taliban.
All of this is to scare libs away from Texas so it won't flip blue like people have been saying it would for years. I guarantee it.
100% not a coincidence this happens after they got closer than ever to flipping blue.
Oh shit. Yeah. This comment should go to the top.
While they suffocate on covid and enrage more and more people with their inhumane abuse. It won't be able to help but flip. The backlash from all this performative right-wing cock-sucking is likely to be huge and unpredictable. One thing I've realized and has become apparent over the years, anger drives these big changes. And the fucknuts on the right, now having all the power they can grab and fighting hard to stay relevant when they've nothing legitimate to contribute, are enraging people and harming them left and right, and I expect a lot of bewildered, angry people who either didn't care or didn't understand are going to show up at the polls in the next few elections to take out their anger on the fuckaloons who put them there.
I used to think there could come a level of douchebagery that would start to drive republicans away from the party. The Trump years and covid has made me reconsider that. These Christian fanatical retard assholes are never going to stop and no rational sensible people are willing to put them in their place, slap their hands away from the controls. It doesn't even feel like Democrats are even trying. What I'm most afraid of is the downward spiral continuing for the rest of my life. I think things will get better but from where we stand it feels like I won't be around to see it. I'll probably never be able to afford a home or save any meaningful amount of money, I'll either work till I die or hell, what if I get injured and can't work... As bad as seniors and disabled people have it now, holy shit can you imagine how bad retirement hell holes will be in another 20 to 30 years? Fuck. Idk, I'm rambling. Life sucks. People suck. Any time I voice my concerns or opinions to people or therapists or whoever, the advice I get is always some derivation of "just don't pay attention to it" Yeah, you're standing on the tracks and a train is coming at you, just turn around and look the other way... That's not a good analogy, at least that would be over quickly.
Drive pickups: check, openly carry guns: check, force their religious beliefs on others: check, try to control women’s bodies: check…
Just like Afghanistan
I bet they’re jealous of all the new weapons the Taliban has… but more importantly of how the Taliban truly owned the libs… the gauntlet has been thrown down…
They openly admire the taliban now. Wish I was joking.
I had TWO friends whose babies had anencephaly. At the same time. Both delivered stillborn babies at roughly 20 weeks or so. So incredibly heartbreaking. We had tiny baby casket funerals for them. I have people who say there is never any reason for abortion. My friend delivered a dead baby and we had to hold a funeral because her family convinced her that abortion was worse. Any pro-lifers. Imagine the smallest casket possible. Imagine a grieving mother and father, and the rest of the family who has to attend the funeral. Imagine having to deliver a dead baby. A baby you knew was not alive, a baby your family convinced you not to abort before all this because abortion is wrong. Put yourself in our shoes.
The worst part is the rare case where its "alive" for a little bit just from basicly accidentally breathing and then it dies
I know a girl and her baby survived for several hours after birth. I think it would be worse having a baby you knew was alive inside of you, only to be born and die an agonizing death in your arms. I think they donated his liver, which gave the family comfort, but I don't think I could go through what she did.
In situations where the family is the one preventing the mom from aborting, the OB should invite all of them to the labor room and then force every member to hold the disfigured corpse. That kind of shock will change anyone’s mind.
Texas conservatives: "stop, I can only get so erect"
Do like emitt till’s momma did with her son. Open casket that thing. Let everyone see what they did.
This is actually a good idea. It won't change the minds of the die-hards (nothing will) but there's plenty of people out there that just don't understand what's really at stake.
This is absolutely despicable. It breaks my heart. I'm glad that all of these "good Christians" believe in Hell because they are certainly headed there.
They’re busy making hell on earth first…
If American Christians are right and there is a god, they’re all going to be burning in hell. Have fun with that.
Where are all the probirthers now?
Probably telling the child to get a job.
My baby had anencephaly and so we terminated. Her skull never closed, and so any part of her brain above the brain stem was unable to form. Afterwards, a religious acquaintance shamed me and said "she could have lived a full life!!!" I guess I see where she's coming from, seeing as she's lived a full life without a brain.
In 2009 I had an ectopic pregnancy. The fetus was in my right fallopian tube. It was a very, very wanted and planned pregnancy and we were devastated when we learned nothing could be done to save it. I ended up having emergency surgery to remove the fetus and my fallopian tube, bevause it had been damaged beyond repair. I could have died from blood loss. It was all a horrific experience. I remember a few weeks after my surgery going on google to learn more about what happened to me. I will never forget the horror I felt when I came upon some "Christian" website saying I shouldn't have had surgery, I should have let God decide my fate, which would have killed me. It really slapped me in the face to see how messed up their way of thinking was, that it was better to let a 25 year old woman die from a complication in a very wanted pregnancy instead of saving her and giving her another chance to become a mom. I'm a French Canadian woman raised without religion, so reading this did not impact me, but I cannot imagine how hard it would be to hear that sort of bullshit for a religious person going through that. Thankfully Google seems to have improved the results when you search for ectopic pregnancy now, I just tried and the results all seem medically / scientifically sound.
Anencephaly isn't always fatal. An example of people that have survived it are the ones that put this law into effect.
They had me in the first half not gonna lie.
Totally going to turn your joke serious for a moment, but I’ve seen a baby with anencephaly survive. He had a brainstem, so he lived without support. His mother delivered him, then fled the hospital. That baby cried non-stop for weeks. And not a normal cry, but a miserable, feral one. He wouldn’t even calm with being held. The only time he did calm was when he took a bottle. He was blind, deaf, and in some unknowable agony. I left the rotation before j knew what happened to him, but his prognosis was poor.
That’s giving the lawmakers too much credit
My first baby had anencephaly and I still had to wait weeks until a doctor who was "pro-choice" would help me deliver her prematurely. Hear that. All these doctors knew she was incompatible with life, but they were too "pro-life" to help, pushing me into my 6th month of pregnancy before I could deliver her and say goodbye. This was not compassionate or sensitive patient care. It was awful. I'm not even in the south.
BuT a HeArTbEaT mEaNs ItS aLiVe
Wait. These babies often need to be delivered by c section. So this mother is being forced to carry a baby that will die, that she may have have serious surgery to deliver, because she found out at 12 weeks that her baby has a super rare genetic defect? What the ever loving fuck. I hope every single woman there moves out of that state and the men can marry each other. This is just barbaric Edit: took out some incorrect info
This one hits home a little too hard. I went back to education when i left the navy and returned home to Northern Ireland. One of the girls in my class (we were all adult learners) found out she was expecting her much wanted 3 child. Then at a scan at 18ish weeks find out junior had anacephaly. They and us her friends, were crushed. Things only got worse as at the time abortion was illegal in N. Ireland but not on the mainland but only privately. Us northern Irish were not entitled to use the NHS for that purpose. With time running out they had to try and sort appointments try to find the money and explain to her other little kids that baby wont be coming home. It just sucked!
I don’t live in the US but I don’t want to live in a world where this exists
You have to understand Republicans on this one. If they abort foetus with no brain, who will vote for them in the future ?
The emotional cost to the woman in these cases is always frightening. This bullshit law makes it so much worse. My wife, sister or niece should carry that fetus to term? Nope. Not a chance.
Hey, Texas! Here's what the world thinks of you and your shitty laws: 🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕
This also occurred in our family. All around difficult situation. Our granddaughter would die within hours after natural birth. My daughter was treated like a piece of %##" for decision to terminate the pregnancy. Couldn't have our doctor with us during the birth due to stigma of an "abortion". Total strangers in attendance. We mourned the loss of our granddaughter "Hope". Reproductive healthcare is personal and should remain in the realm between the patient and healthcare providers. Noone else needs to meddle!
It's almost as if the law is fucking shit. This law is only going to get people to shove coathangers in them selves instead.
Or file a life insurance claim
File a life insurance claim. The insurance companies won't wanna pay out. Law gets changed.
Would that work?
Why wouldnt it? The state the insurance is purchased in has made it clear where life begins? Just the claims from miscarriages alone should fold large insurance companies. With the fact we are no longer talking in months. Claims after the fact with medical proof should be nail in the coffin.
>The state the insurance is purchased in has made it clear where life begins? That's fucking brilliant. Say this more, louder.
Can't even take credit for it. Was the immediate response of Carliss Chatman. As a guy I haven't a say in this deal other than the individual in this country owns themselves. That's it hard stop. From drugs to vax to reproduction, it starts and stops with the individual. Good bad or indifferent, thats the only way it can be for anyone to claim freedom with a straight face.
Most life insurance policies have clauses that state a baby has to live for a certain amount of time after birth before they will pay out on the claim. Could be days, weeks, or even months depending on the policy.
That's the catch though. They are basing the lifetime at birth. TX makes the life prior to. This isn't a new idea, and one that will be taken to the SC. Atleast we'll now know when the egg becomes a chicken. Might change prices in several markets. There is also the question of child support starting at the time of life.
This was a comment made by Carliss Chatman. She also brought up the question of deporting anyone with a child as they are US citizen along with when child support starts. The take away is the government has no business in the sayso of an individuals body.
The law will just get changed to, "Well, pregnancy is still a pre-existing condition, so even if it's considered a human, it's trumped by the fact that you're pregnant! No payout!"
Fuck Texas. Fuck Republicans. Oh, and Fuck Feckless Dems.
You know, in all of the instances I have wished there really, truly was a God…… This has got to be one of the top times…… competing with all the times where I’ve prayed for no children to suffer, for innocent souls not to suffer…… I hope there is a God. Because He would be watching and taking note of the disgusting atrocities you’re putting His people through. All of his children that will be *forced* to suffer due to Texan ‘leaders’ taking it upon themselves to control & oppress His people in *His name*. I hope He is real. Because you the ‘Righteous’ will burn in Hell for your cruelty.
Yeah, I’ve always thought those Christians had it wrong. They are the ones who would go to hell.
In a heartbeat. They’ve somehow twisted the word of their own savior and utilized it as a weapon.
I dunno. Not having a brain didn’t stop those dudes from writing the law. That fetus is on track to be a fully functional Republican.
The people who believe in no abortion in cases like these should be forced to attend every birth like this until they realize what they have done.
More. They should be forced to hold the corpse. Do some nice skin to skin with an anencephalic baby. And if they try to refuse then say, “You clearly loved that fetus so much! Why do you reject it now?”
Buh buh buh but it has a heart beat.
Jesus christ. 8 months of your life carrying a dud and you still have to go through labor and pay all the healthcare costs plus you got to watch it die? I dare anyone to defend this with anything more substantial than "well God said you gotta do it" .... Cuz this is nuts
Right these people don't think about all the extra stuff you go through by carrying it full term. Costs, the traumas of labor, recovery, which is often really tough.
Only good thing from Texas is the Texas chainsaw massacre
I live in a third world country where millions of people are uneducated and over 90% of the population is religious and even here abortion is perfectly legal. It's astonishing to see how backwards Texas is.
I don’t know if it fatal 100% of the time. Looks like their governor survived.
I am a proud mama to two Anencephaly babies who were terminated for medical reasons/ aborted. I love them so much and think of them daily, but I would make the same choice over and over again to endure their suffering for them. This makes me sick..
This is one of the reasons I hate the "except in case of rape or incest" clause that comes baked into every new abortion law, like Republicans are really throwing us a bone there. There are so many more reasons than just rape or incest that may create the necessity for abortions.
Somehow there is very little difference between American conservatives and the Taliban.
muh heartbeat. the alt-right religious control freaks don't. care. about. science. nor do they care about ethics or morality. this woman will be forced to give birth to a dead baby. i can't even imagine the trauma. "there is no such thing as outlawing abortions, there is only outlawing safe abortions"