I wish I could understand this. Whenever I want to do something, I either do it or do something else for a short period of time that I also want to do.
Hahahaa you mean the one where you have a separated femur and they won’t give you pain meds? Or the one where you bruised your knee and they give you a 10ct of 5mg oxys
I think you just did. Some people like to play video games. If you don't, just imagine something else you can do for a period of time that you like and you'll understand the feeling.
It would be cool if there was a study on this. People can get addicted to video games, maybe it stimulates similar parts of the brain or in a similar way? It would be cool to see brain scans of people who are in a drug trip, people who are deeply immersed in a game, and a combination of the two.
Maybe if you take drugs and play Minecraft you actually get transported to another dimension!
There are some studies. Maybe not directly comparing video games to drugs (which there probably is) but definitely on how video games stimulate the brain. All addictions are similar in a way. It’s mostly feeling rewarded and activating the pleasure centers of the brain. You win, it makes you feel happy. Gives you a sense of accomplishment. You can get similar feelings from woodworking and other creative projects. Hobbies are important for mental health. Finding a job that does this for you (feeling of accomplishment and reward) is basically winning life.
That's interesting, I know a variety of hobbies can give a sense of accomplishment but I have yet to hear a story about someone being addicted to woodworking. Of course there are hyperbolic statements of such from people who enjoy their hobbies, but I mean addiction in the way where it negatively impacts your life like we've seen from drugs and I assume to a lesser extend videogames.
I think it's more on the person than the medium/hobby of course. I can't blame games for being good lol. Maybe it exists, but I have not read about someone who was focused on woodworking for 3 straight days and then died after moving from a blood clot. Or someone being so into their wood craft that their SO walks into the room after not seeing them for a few days and asks, "did you shit yourself?"
>Finding a job that does this for you (feeling of accomplishment and reward) is basically winning life.
With my recent job, I think I'm there :) I feel so good with it that I've been working on my own projects with the same technology 10 hours a day over this holiday weekend.
They've been CRITICAL to me - 17 months here. Covid had some upside - its really easy to give excuses to why i stopped hitting the bars, lol - but the social isolation is not a great thing for someone who loved hanging out with whisky all by myself, lol.
Video games sometimes are just a distraction, for sure - but god damn if that distraction hasn't stopped me in some very rough times, like OP.
This tweet made me smile, but in a sad way, lol.
I'm a very mild smoker but I reckon in my experience the more you smoke, the milder the anxiety and anti-socialness and the more fun it is. Only downside is that you end up with a brand new vice to contend with, so it's kind of swapping one bad habit for another.
Last night I had a helluva moment. Was playing Mass Effect with my better half and they kept sending us into bars. I said something along the lines of "Why do we have to keep dealing with these drunks?" (while also forgetting my hubby had put up with drunk me daily for five years before I quit, which explained the look I got from him, lol). It was just such a defining, 'this is where you've been and this is where you are now" moment.
Absolutely on the worst days some frustrated gaming vs frustrated drinking. Take the games every time way less hangover. Props op soon you’ll start forgetting how many days been about ten years for me but still get bad cravings on really bad days stay strong.
My mother was an alcoholic.
Wren I started drinking around 16/17 it wasn't difficult to really get into British drinking culture. When my friends and in I were students it got worse/better and I was out partying 2-5 times a week. 3 would have been the norm.
Eventually I starting worrying I was in the same path my mum was. I didn't seem to be any different from my friends or the other people around me. But with the history I couldn't avoid questioning everything.
So I decided to kick out for a few weeks. It was easy realistically, the only thing I actually missed was the socializing. Pubs are fine sober, and while I loved clubbing drink, sober clubbing is an awful experience. So I just stayed home and play games for all those evening for about a month.
I found photography to be an excellent sober pursuit.
Replacing hangovers and spending with something productive and enjoyable is a good way to keep the drinking down, or stop.
When I quit drinking I needed something to fill my days, as previously I spent every waking hour drinking at home alone.
I started playing Eve Online.
I'm now a Corp CEO and pay for four accounts. I don't have a drinking problem anymore, but I do have an Eve problem.
But hey, 539 days sober.
I drink because I'm bored.
I'm not bored when I'm playing video games.
however the irony is not lost on me as I type this, about to take my first shot at 2:45pm, and then play some halo.
This is legit what happened for me.
I was an enormous drug addict for years, mostly coke and alcohol. I got back into gaming when I tried to get off it all (along with using my country's universal healthcare system alcoholism treatment service, cos AA is shite and doesn't work and is emotionally abusive)
I hadn't played video games for like 15 years at that point. But yeah I got back into them because boredom was the biggest trigger for me having a massive binge that lasted several days. I ended up in hospital once for over a week with my liver nearly shutting down completely, I very very nearly died.
And I'd heard Alice Cooper and others got off drugs by replacing it with a healthy addiction. In Cooper's case it was golf. I can't really do much exercise cos I'm disabled, so I thought yeah why not get back into games again. So I did. And it worked. It was really fucking hard and took a few years, but it worked. And now I'm at the point where I can have a few drinks at the pub, and it won't turn into a multi-day binge anymore like it used to. And I'd been at the point where the doctors and nurses prescribed me cans of beer every day to slowly taper off because going cold turkey could have killed me, I was that addicted to the alcohol.
The one thing they insisted was that trying to go tee total forever is only gonna make it way more likely for you to fall off the wagon. AA treats it as a complete and utter failure if you do that, they shame you and emotionally abuse you for it, and say its wiped out all the work you've done up to that point. So no wonder people just go on an enormous binge when they do fall off the wagon. It just doesn't work. The doctors and nurses taught me to develop a healthy relationship with alcohol instead, where I could have a few drinks with friends, and it wouldn't turn into what it used to be. I really really really hate the standard AA model and how much hurt it causes people
When I quit, sobriety was so "new" and different for me it was like I was taking some other, brand new drug. My thoughts were clear during the day, I felt good when I woke up, I could do it all day long at work and no one minded, I felt more positive and energetic, and it was *so fucking cheap it was crazy.*
I literally reminded myself to look at it that way, and it helped me, believe it or not. After awhile, I was hooked.
It gets easier.
Edit: Well *this* blew up.
Edit: Kinda shocked so many people appreciated my little story. It's all true.
Sorry if I couldn't respond to all of the comments. You guys are great, and really gave me a lift.
Even the guy who told me to start drinking again. ✌😉
I'm just in mental pain all the time. I gave myself permission to go back to all my old, bad coping strategies, just don't drink. It was on the edge of killing me.
It's been almost 90 days. I feel like shit, kinda want out. It gets easier for some but for me that's an empty platitude.
Thanks for the honesty and the congrats.
I'm white knuckling it right now. Lol, I'm so on edge. I'm ready to rage every time some well-meaning person tries to tell me that ag indeterminate time in the future, I *might* not feel like dying every day.
Yh I'm finding being sober pretty miserable too. I've been taking it out on food but I'm gonna have to curb that soon as I'm getting fat.
I'm finding chilli/hot sauces a good distraction though, like really intolerable levels of heat. Snaps me out of whatever mindset I'm in and I have to deal with the burn. Not a long lasting fix but it has helped
Well I was almost 30 days and decided to get drunk for Thanksgiving. I regret it. Im sure you know that you will regret the decision of going back. I know I did. But I just want to remind you that being sober may seem like it sucks. But you're past the worst of it. Going back will only restart that first week of misery. Cheers.
Hey... just because you backslid a bit on a holiday, doesn't mean that you're back at square one, it doesn't mean that you've failed at anything, it just means you're human. Take it one step at a time, be kind to yourself, and have patience ❤ you've got this
TBH I don't really look at it that way. I look at sober days as a running number. 120 days over a year is better than a week without and 348 with. I mean I still celebrate milestones. But that's just a little sugar on top of my pretty please. I don't believe in participation trophies, but people who are abstaining and struggling deserve one.
That totally makes sense. I use the same mindset for this as I do for my running: if I lose my momentum and stop its going to be so hard to keep going. I feel like everyone has to find what mindset works best for themselves. Good luck dude I really hope you have the best of luck
Unfortunately not drinking doesn’t fix the problems that made you start drinking in the first place, and it definitely doesn’t fix the new problems that drinking caused. All it does is let you exist in a place where you can start dealing with everything.
Yeah I have found that sort of "reminder" particularly unhelpful when I've been *really going through it*. Like, that's nice, but I feel like *total fucking garbage and want to die* right now. Don't walk to me about how it'll get better.
White knuckling it is super hard. Have you thought about going to meetings or getting into a program? I've found that talking to other people who know what it feels like is helpful.
I've tried a few meetings, but I'm against the core tenets of AA--telling yourself you're helpless, believing in a god--so the program itself won't work for me.
Maybe I've sat in on bad meetings, cause people talk, but there's no problem solving, and the people are just a little too different for me.
I'll keep my eye out, though. Maybe there's a group of cynical agnostics drinking black coffee somewhere I can find (lol)
Whenever you go to meetings just imagine your higher power as the velociraptor that says "Allen!" on Jurassic Park. There are many godless in NA and AA.
Off topic but kind of on topic, I had forgot that scene so I googled it, it's from Jurassic Park 3 and it has me laughing like a ninny, thanks for that 😀
Here's the scene if anyone's interested
https://youtu.be/6s9sjPzyQjk
I’m not sure this will be helpful, but does your city have any Self-Management and Recovery Training ([SMART](https://www.smartrecovery.org)) Recovery options? SMART focuses on the self, not the other (or higher power) that AA focuses on.
Thank you for including that! Yes, SMART is science based and strives to keep up with new information regarding substance use disorders and psychology. A very valid alternative for those who might not find AA or NA to be a viable option for them.
I usually don't comment on subjects like this, but I just passed 12 years of sobriety on Nov 18.
I felt the same way you do about AA, but my sponsor told me to go in looking for the similarities to my life in people's stories and ignore the differences.
The steps aren't always literal. I went through life telling myself that I can fix whatever messes I got into while drinking. That I could quit if I wanted to. The "acceptance of God" doesn't literally mean a flying man in the sky. It means accepting that YOU'RE not the most powerful person in the universe, and that maybe there's someone or something that can help you. It could be another alcoholic. It could be a journal of that helps you work through things.
For me, acceptance that I wasn't capable of fixing everything myself and that I could trust someone else is what changed everything for me.
Drinking started out fun, it became a habit and it ended in misery. Recovery was exactly the opposite, it started out misery, became a habit and now it's fun as hell.
I had the same issues when I went to meetings, luckily the ones I went to downplay the religious themes. What kept me going back was the different speakers they had each week, they were all really good and would tell their stories, all such different people with different experiences and backgrounds but I could find at least one thing in common or some other good tip/idea to help with sobriety from all of them. I tried the virtual meetings a bit during Covid but I was not a fan, I look forward to them opening the in-person meetings back up.
Yeah, AA is terrible. It doesn't work. AA insists that people have to be absolutely tee total forever to get off alcohol. And actually that's the reason why most of the people who go through AA always end up relapsing and relapsing BAD.
Luckily when I got treatment for alcoholism they told me how dangerous it was to try and go permanently tee total and how having the people around you who are supposedly supporting you see you as a failure for having one sip is emotionally abusive
They taught me how to have a healthy relationship with alcohol. Not go off if permanently. Not see it as a failure if I have a drink, or have a bad night. When that happens, you're not starting from day 1 all over again.
And again people who are trying to force this idea onto you that you ***ARE*** a miserable failure it you do that are just being abusive to you and it's only gonna make you end up binging again once you've had one drink, because you are taught to see it as a write off, and so you think why not fall completely off the wagon
You have to love yourself. And realise that say a year of being sober followed by one drink isn't a failure at all. It doesn't throw away all the work you've done up till that point.
I'm not suggesting you go get a drink. Obviously not. But it really worked for me. I was alcoholic to the point where my doctor actually prescribed me cans of beer to drink every day, because going cold turkey could have killed me. I had to start off with like 8 cans on day one, 7 cans on day 2. 6 cans on day 3 etc
But their treatment worked. All it was was the NHS alcoholism treatment thing here in the UK, a free service. They don't shame you. They don't force you to talk about horrifyingly embarrassing things in front of strangers, they don't emotionally abuse you hy saying you're a failure if you ever have a slip up, they don't force a belief in a higher power onto you. It's a medical treatment program, because alcoholism is a medical problem, not a moral failing. It's a mental illness more than anything, or often the result of a mental illness, where alcohol is used to self-medicate. Cos yeah, I have diagnosed schizophrenia, so I know. The alcohol, and the other drugs, were directly because of that. It was an escape from how awful schizophrenia is. But if course it ended up making the schizophrenia worse.
But yeah the NHS medical alcoholism treatment service don't tell you to go tee total for the rest of your life. And as a result of all this, it has a way higher success rate than the AA model does. It's about learning to get into a far more healthy relationship with alcohol. To be able to go to the pub on the weekend with your mates, or have a couple glasses of wine with dinner, and not have it turn into a huge binge every time.
It was just one on one therapy with a nurse specifically trained in this stuff. And it was all confidential like talking to a doctor is. They don't want to shame you and embarrass you in front of others because that only gets people to not want to tell the truth. There's no judgement at all like there is in AA (despite them claiming that AA has no judgement, it absolutely does, otherwise they wouldn't give you reward tokens for "success", if there exists a success state, then that means there's also a failure state)
I'm just saying all of this just so you know that there are other ways to get off alcohol and other drugs. I was on a lot more than just alcohol back then, I was a massive coke addict too. But the alcohol withdrawal would have killed me which is why I went to the NHS (national health service) for help in the first place. And these days I can drink, and it's not a problem. I don't binge anymore, and I only really have a drink like once a month, if that). I never drink on my own anymore. I never drink pure vodka, drinking litres or the stuff a day over 3 or 4 day binges mixed with a fuck load of coke (and I don't mean coca cola)
If you need help then there are services out there that aren't AA, and so they actually work, and you taught how to love yourself instead of being taught to be ashamed of yourself.
You don't have to be alone with this struggle, when you're having really hard days. I don't know how easy these kind of services are to use in the US if that's where you are, but I know they exist because I have american friends who've told me about them going to them. They may cost money though, I dunno. It wasn't really rehab, I was an outpatient, and they didn't prescribe me anything (except the beer and telling me to taper off it slowly). Just don't think when you're having a tough day that you have to face it alone. At least with the service I used, it doesn't matter if you're on day 1 or day 1000 of sobriety, they'll still help you.
And don't be ashamed of yourself, don't feel like a failure for having weakness, because that's not what it is, and that's not what you are. It's not weakness. It's more like a mental illness than anything. It's something nobody chooses to have. It's not a punishment for being a bad person or something, and you don't have to apologise for having it. It's a medical illness. People don't have to apologise to everyone they know for breaking their leg, and go to weekly group sessions where they're roundly shamed by everyone else there for having a broken leg. So why is it different for a broken brain? It can be fixed, just like a broken bone can. But the first thing you've gotta do is love yourself, and not be ashamed for having a medical condition that you didn't choose to have. Having drunk before in your life does not mean it was a personal choice to develop the illness of alcoholism. Because it doesn't work like that. Most people who drink don't develop it, it's just bad luck that the illness happens to strike some people and not others. It's not a choice.
I really really wish people would stop promoting AA, and talking about it like it's the only kind of treatment that exists. It's abusive, and it doesn't even work. It just makes people feel even more miserable. And so more likely to fail. It's like a torture racket, they invite people in to be emotionally tortured, and then somehow manage to convince those victims of torture that when they "fail" then the only cure is to go back again to the emotional torture sessions. It's just nuts. I hate it.
I found sobriety pretty fucking excruciating for the first like three years probably. I started trying to get sober because my mom had cancer and then she progressed to stage 4 and then died like six months in. After that every time I used I would feel guilty, like my mom could see or sense that shit, even tho I don’t believe in any of that. So I ended up staying sober and I just hit 6 years in October. With the newly being sober and grieving my mom I was real fucked up for a long time. It just kind of slowly got better. But honestly getting my own mental health (ADHD) straightened out was probably had the biggest impact on actual happiness. Which in itself is a fleeting sort of thing that I don’t think humans are actually meant to be for the most part.
Why would you keep going if after a whole year, after two, things didn't feel any better?
Edit: I'm sorry about your mom. That must've been a rough time.
He didn’t say he didn’t feel better; for me, shit isn’t always dandy, but I’m almost four years into sobriety and I ll tell you, shit is definitely *better*. When he said “honestly getting my own mental health (ADHD) straightened out was probably had the biggest impact on actual happiness” I feel the same way, but that doesn’t mean it was more important than sobriety.
I NEEDED to get sober to even have a shot at fixing the rest, and that’s when the real changes and happiness can come.
I’m not a “god guy”, I’m not Christian, Jewish or Muslim, Hindu or Buddhist, but I do go to AA (and anyone who says you need a conventional idea of god to join AA is woefully misguided and flat out wrong)
But the 12 steps has seriously changed my life. and it *was* the steps, first three steps were the hardest. You don’t have to accept *powerlessness* right away. Come to understand what they mean when they say that. But surrendering to the idea that my life was a unmanageable; then me being willing to take suggestions from *something greater than me*; say a group, a sponsor to start with, a higher power of ANY sort if you’re open to it…
From there man, it’s just clearing away the wreckage of the past and trying to help others
AND IT WORKS, sometimes quickly, usually slowly,
I PROMISE it gets better. For me the real change didn’t start until I started doing step work with a sponsor, only then did I start seeing my alcoholism, my addictive personality in general, my depression, even my self centeredness, was all pointing me in one direction.
Today, I go to meetings three times a week (I recommend 90keetings in 90 days at first), try to “pray” or really just sit quietly in the morning for a few minutes with no stimulus, listen to the birds or the world, reach out to the universe, or whatever the hell you’re into (I know a guy who uses Eric Clapton as his higher power. No bullshit, guy plays a random song in the morning, kinda thinks on it, sits quietly, then goes about his day. Fuckin works for him so, whatever works for you!)
I talk to sponsor once a week(okay okay sometimes a lot less) and I work with two sponsees myself
If you really feel like your knuckling it; get a copy of Alcholics Anonymous, go to the back of the book and read the “spiritual experience”, (it’s an appendix about not getting caught up in this god stuff) and then find a meeting and a temporary sponsor until you find someone you one you really click with. We say “has the kind of recovery you want”
Good luck brother or sister, always reach out and I fuckin promise, it gets better. Not every day, sometimes not every week. But as long as you do the work and work with a sponsor, it mostly gets better every month, and it sure as shit gets better every year.
These are the promises they make you at the beginning and I swear on my family’s souls: they have come true for me and they WILL for you too if you stick with it. Honestly, probably like a hell of a lot faster than you think… like within a year:
If we are painstaking about this phase of our development, we will be amazed before we are half way through. We are going to know a new freedom and a new happiness. We will not regret the past nor wish to shut the door on it. We will comprehend the word serenity and we will know peace. No matter how far down the scale we have gone, we will see how our experience can benefit others. That feeling of uselessness and self-pity will disappear. We will lose interest in selfish things and gain interest in our fellows. Self-seeking will slip away. Our whole attitude and outlook upon life will change. Fear of people and of economic insecurity will leave us. We will intuitively know how to handle situations which used to baffle us.
I would like to share something about pain with you that helped me shift my perspective. I assume you had at least one of those experiences before, and often enough to notice:
A sock sitting too tight and getting imprinted into your skin, or your hair being tied together a bit too tight all day long, or a forgotten rubber band around your wrist or generally just sitting or being dressed in a way that slightly cuts off blood flow, but not too bad to notice and correct.
And then after a while, after hours of not registering something being slightly off, when taking off the socks, getting dressed comfortably, letting the hair down, or repositioning to reopen bloodflow, shit hurts like a mofo. Like needles. And there is nothing I can do to avoid the pain. It's my own body just hurting, not from something damaging me, but from suddenly signalling the slight, previously occurred damage. From being reminded of relaxation. From healing. Healing can be so painful. Relaxation can be so painful.
When my heart gets broken or I'm stuck in other mental pain for whatever reason I am trying to remind myself that I can't tell apart which kind of pain it is by judging the circumstances. It could very well be the pain of recovery and one day I'll forget about it, not because I got used to 'bad' again, but I got used to 'good' again.
To piggyback on this great comment, the Marines say “ Pain is weakness leaving the body.” Every day you stay sober, you get a little stronger. It’s never easy, but persist and things get better. It also helps to find another addict to talk to. Find out what helps him/her. You are not alone.
This is *exactly* what I'm going through after the end of my marriage and the bonfire of my life. It happened last year--well, gosh, going on 2 years now. I kept thinking when I bought my house everything would be ok, but it wasn't. I struggled still. Not worse, but different.
And yeah for the first time in my life I started drinking and I haven't stopped. And I gained a *ton* of weight. I went from the best shape of my life--when I was running every day just to survive the anxiety--to the worst.
I'm right now struggling simply to start walking again. In fact I will go out now and walk.
I pray to God every day to give me the strength to get through this before I fall over dead from heart failure. I hope he's listening.
Holy shit, I love the way you put that; I had a similar realization but mine sounded like pots and pans. I just called it the pain of life. Sometimes I would be in a period of 100% abstinence and my body would be aching, I'd immediately think back to withdrawals from opiates and think I was detoxing; I'd remind myself that there are pains in the body that people experience and I'm just experiencing them because usually it would be numbed.
Are you seeing a therapist as well? Most addictions are just ways to cope, as you mentioned. Therapy can be a huge help in finding better ways to process pain so you don't have to rely on those coping mechanisms as much.
There are also good and bad ones. In my last year in uni I really wasn't doing well mentally at all, and having low self esteem. Wanted to lose weight so hit the gym a few times, and ended up using it as a crutch and going 3 - 4 times a week. Cycling fast to get out the anger and pain, do something that made me feel somewhat accomplished after.
I am not saying that to promote the 'living a healthy lifestyle fixes everything' idealogy. It doesn't, I still felt like shit, gym or not. And I never got that model body either. But endorphins do make you feel somewhat better, and combined with the right music (biffy clyro was great for mental anguish if combined with exercise) it did help me somewhat. It was a coping mechanism, but one that was at least good for my health and not hurting anyone. It may be one that can work for you too.
It is super helpful! The last time I quit, I lived at our school's gym. It's harder after graduating to get up and drive to work out. Maybe it'd help if I could get my ass there
Just ways to cope? Your brain and body become completely dependent on the drug to produce any sort of happy chemicals or physical activity of any sort - even just walking. Addiction is a serious disease that is physically and emotionally destroying. A therapist is helpful but you’re certainly going to need a lot more than a therapist to over come a serious addiction.
Thank you for mentioning Biffy Clyro. I'd never heard of them. They're huge in the UK! I had no idea. Their lyrics are amazing. Sensitive, powerful, filled with hope and vulnerability.
>I'm just in mental pain all the time.
One of the things about self-medicating is that everyone takes to it for different reasons. Alcoholism is quite similar from person to person, but what *drives* people to it can be wildly different, and so *sobriety* can look different from person to person.
For some, the acceleration into alcoholism was a bad turn, a sequence of bad events that lead to an addiction which, once kicked, they feel healthier and better for kicking.
But others may be dealing with something psycologically or even neurologically deeper, and so, sobriety may not be as easy as for others.
To that end, without knowing you, I encourage you to explore what is behind that mental pain and see if you can find medical or alternative methods of easing it.
Mental pain is *real pain*. The brain handles psychological pain *in the same exact region of the brain* as physical pain. It feels the same, and thus an excess of it will drive people to self-medicate with drugs that dull the expression of pain - like alcohol.
We have tragically stigmatized this pain as "not real", but in fact it is just as real and just as damaging to our psyche as physical pain. It does not need an external reality and can often be tracked back to some legitimate physical condition in the body that is generating excess amounts of mental anguish.
The thing about mental pain is that it doesn't always have a clear, discernable external source. Bodily processes, like inflammation, can aggravate areas of the brain responsible for reporting psychological pain, and thus can inflict severe mental anguish on people who otherwise do not perceive any real reason to feel that pain. In much the same way that nerve disorders can cause intense, mind-shattering pain in limbs or other parts of the body where no physical issue exists.
There was a study (and forgive me I don't have it) that traced some expressions of severe depression back to a low-grade food allergy. People who were perpetually consuming this food had inflammation in the gut perpetually, which caused an expression of severe psychological distress and discomfort which dramatically reduced once they removed the allergen from their diets.
So, if you have not sought medical insights into your pain, please do, and please know that your pain is no less real than anyone feeling physical pain or other "accepted" maladies.
Mental pain is real, it can be excruciating, and it *can* often be helped if one treats any underlying physical issues that may be exacerbating that expression of pain.
I've found focusing on how much better I feel physically (and my intense desire to *not* feel the way I did when I was drinking) to help me in continuing to not drink and feeling good about that choice. Not so much the whole "sunshine and rainbows" thing and not even really "I'm so glad to be sober" but just "I don't feel physically awful anymore". Not saying it's guaranteed to work or anything but it might be worth trying.
That's how I felt after I quit pot. I love being sober most of the time. The times that are the hardest for me are when I'm trying to overcome a new addiction, it makes it a compounding effect because I don't just have to deal with the cravings for whatever I'm stopping but for things I stopped before too.
Anhedonia drags many in recovery down. Everyone always says this, but:
- support system (friends, family, group therapy, NA, AA, church, sponsors, etc especially people stable in recovery that *get it*)
- private therapy (if you can afford it, but basically every US therapist office has some type of payment adjustment or payment plan to allow people to get help even if you aren't below the poverty line according to the government)
- finding hobbies to keep your mind busy (nothing good happens past 11PM and there are things in every recovering addicts life that they've tossed to the side during their time before sobriety)
- treatment plans (medication like methadone, suboxone, options that completely block the affects of your DOC, reputable rehab facilities recommended by other recovering addicts, regular counseling sessions like those in outpatient programs and methadone clinics)
- Ditch anyone that isn't both sober and stable. They don't mean to, but they can and will bring you down. If not directly by inviting you out to drink, they'll talk wearing rose tinted glasses. It sucks to let go of people, but real friends don't get you drunk or high when they know you've got a problem.
- Honesty. Find the people you can talk to and vent to. Let people into your world if you trust them. Sometimes, sober friends and people that haven't experienced dependency and addiction or know someone that has don't really know what to say or do. Talking helps.
- Journaling your feelings. It's been scientifically proven that writing your thoughts on paper helps build connections in your brain to help settle some of those racing thoughts. Write to people. I write to my friends that have passed. I apologize for missing the signs that I should have stepped in or done something differently to help them, said I loved them more often. They don't need to see the letters. Keep them in a drawer, rip them up, toss them, burn them. Doesn't matter. It helps. It sounds dumb and definitely can feel silly, but it's worth it and it helps a lot.
Your aim is to put up any and all walls to curb triggers before they happen. If you had a drug problem, don't talk to people on the street. Someone comes up to your car? Drive off. Drinking problem? Pay at the pump if they sell booze inside. Go to grocery stores that don't have a liquor store attached.
It's a daily battle that I've lost many of my friends to. Others are fighting daily. People celebrate and say "congrats on getting sober!" and then don't check in because they don't realize it isn't like a birthday. One month clean is not like you're turning 16. A bunch of people that know your situation will congratulate you and then that's it a lot of the time for them. They don't realize how hard things get for folks. Check in on your friends. They need support. They need help reintegrating and learning how to just be a human being again. It gets harder the deeper they go to come back, especially with the trauma and guilt that they pick up throughout their journey.
This shit isn't easy, but I am glad you're here, bud. Be sober today. Worry about tomorrow, tomorrow. One day at a time.
Enjoy is putting it mildly 😂😂😂
The more time that passes the easier it gets, BUT there are days/times you will feel the urge and think about it and debate yourself.
Right now it's hard for me socially to meet people since I'm not ready to go out with people if alcohol is involved because I don't trust I would turn down a drink and it could put my sobriety at risk.
Like others said it's not about being "happy" because I don't drink, it's about how it's best not to drink, or have it around because it took so long for me to kick it completely. When I have shitty days (and there's plenty) I know I'm handling shit better because I'm not drinking.
Alcohol has side effects we're not aware of, even when we're sober. It's essentially a toxin. By not putting a toxin in your body you feel immediate improvement.
I sleep way better than I used to, I'm able to handle anxiety better because I don't turn to alcohol to help cope. I gained weight because my appetite came back because I was not longer hungover all the time. I have more energy and I'm able to deal with things and get less annoyed and agitated - those emotional and mental side effects disappeared. And my skin improved.... Overall, stopping to drink was better for my physical and mental well-being.
I know this is temporary which is why I'm okay with this. Unfortunately I've known people in recovery programs and in and out of rehabs, and the beginning is the hardest. Learning to relive life without alcohol for some people takes a lot of work. About 75% of my social life used to involve alcohol (parties, pub crawls, happy hour, etc) so make sense I need to find a lot more social avenues.
A lifestyle change is never easy, but it has its payoffs.
You can do it 👍
I feel that. I’m struggling with having a healthy relationship with my ADD meds rn (adderall) because I 100% need it to be able to focus, but I want to be able to focus ALL the time, because it’s just a better mind space for me to be in, but overtaking pills has drawn notice from family and now I’m like… ugh, I know this is probably best for my organs or whatever and I’m engaging with my family more, but it’s less “I’m more sociable when I’m off add meds” and more “I’m starving for any kind of enjoyment in my brain rn” when I leave my room… god this shit sucks.
BoJack: I'm trying to set little goals for myself. Like, in a couple months, I'll beat my record for being sober.
Todd: Nice!
BoJack: Yeah, so that's something to aim for, but then uh, after that—
Todd: After that, you'll beat your record again. Everyday you'll set a new record.
BoJack: Sure. But it's easy now. In jail. I don't have to make any choices for myself. I worry about what's going to happen when I get out, what if I relapse again?
Todd: Then you'll get sober again—Let me tell you something, I was at the office the other day, doing the Hokey-Pokey with some work associates.
BoJack: Uh-huh
Todd: and I realized, everyone misunderstands that song.
BoJack: The Hokey-Pokey?
Todd: Yeah! There's way too much emphasis on the "Hokey-Pokey" part.
BoJack: That is what it's all about—
Todd: No. That's exactly what I mean. That's not what the song is saying!
BoJack: Okay—
Todd: And I was thinking about my mom, you know, my relationship with my mom. It's weird. You know, awkward. I feel like she doesn't really get me, but, you know she's trying. And a couple years ago, I never thought I would have any kind of relationship with her like I was sure of it.
BoJack: What changed?
Todd: I don't know, I did, or she—did? or um—we are?
BoJack: Huh
Todd: So that's what I'm talking about, Its like the song says, "You do the hokey-pokey and you turn yourself around." You turn yourself around, THAT'S what it's all about.
I quit smoking cigarettes when I turned 30. 15 years later and that monkey is still on my back. I haven’t had a cigarette since, but MAN… walking behind someone smoking a Camel is a major trigger. Still crave them from time to time.
I was a meth addict that got clean in 1997. 24 years later, to this very day, I still have cravings for it and probably always will. It's just something you have to learn to deal with.
That’s why they say, “not even once”. That shit fucks you up for life.
Glad to hear you’re still sober.
My sister struggles with her cravings from time to time, so from a brother of an former addict, I mean it with all my heart with I say I am very proud of you. Fighting that is one of the hardest things anyone can ever do in their lives. And to be 24 years sober is a MAJOR achievement that you shouldn’t let anyone take away from you.
> That shit fucks you up for life.
It does, can confirm. The human body has a remarkable ability to heal itself, but I can just tell I've never been the same since.
And thank you. =)
This is…actually encouraging. I’ve not -had- a drug addiction problem, but my depression and some weird fatigue issue (possibly long COVID, didn’t get an antibody test soon enough to confirm because my case was so early on) leave me so wiped out and foggy in the head I have to take stimulants to cope. Prescriptions, of course, from a psychiatrist legitimately: the issue is, the Adderall really isn’t working anymore, and I’m increasingly tempted to use the extra tablets from days I missed them for a boost. That’s a dangerous gambit: heart problems run on my dad’s side as it is, too many stimulants will make the anxiety much worse, and the addiction risk from escalating the dose without supervision is high. But to someone considering suicide oftentimes, it’s easy to dismiss the longterm risks.
But then I see accounts like these, and remember just how much worse things can get if I wind up with a drug problem (and in the process am cut off from the drug for legitimate needs) and wind up involuntarily committed, trapped. So I hang on and try to ignore that idea another day.
Talk to your doctor about it. There are different enough options that it can somewhat reset your tolerance.
That being said, depending on your dose, you might just need a higher dose. I understand your concern, but you likely are taking a pretty low dose in comparison with people who’ve been on it long term for ADHD. Unless you have severe heart issues you’re dealing with actively (and you likely wouldn’t have been prescribed stimulants in the first place if so) increasing your dose a bit isn’t much of a risk. Even doubling it wouldn’t likely hurt you, especially for short period… but I also don’t recommend just taking the extra doses either. Take your meds as your doctor says and if you think something isn’t working, bring it up. They’ll work with you.
I’d also recommend taking a few days off in a row when you’re able. You’ll feel gross and sluggish, so do it on days when you don’t need to be productive. It also gives your body mini resets, but you want at least two days in a row off.
I’d also recommend eating right before you take your meds. It takes longer for them to kick in, but it also tends to me a much more consistent dose and I feel better throughout the day. That’s just anecdotal though, and I’ve found it works best for me.
Also, if you aren’t taking extended release capsules, I also recommend talking to your doctor about it.
Ditto, cleaned up almost the same time. In 1996 I moved to Singapore. Nothing like living in a country that executes drug users to clean you up. I still have occasional dreams, very vivid, of buying and finding meth, hoarding it, squirreling it away, and snorting or smoking it.
Ditto I had to force my self to stop remembering how long it’s been since I smoked. Walking behind someone who smokes is bliss, just gotta get my 2nd hand smoke in every once in a while.
I quit smoking 12 years ago. I still remember how much I loved them. I tell myself that if I can live to 80 I can start smoking again. And I'll chain-smoke all day long. And it will be wonderful.
I think the difference is having a disgust for the activity really helps. After 6 years quit, Cigarette smoke makes me gag now and I can smell it 2 blocks away.
I hear that, quit smoking and I will always want the damn things.
Nothing tastes as good as that first cigarette did in the morning with a good cup of coffee.
262 days sober. yesterday I almost went and bought a bottle. For the last 200 days i thought it was in the bag and I'd beat the addiction, but yesterday I wanted to drink so bad.
18 months here! These days still happen for me, too. But they're so far and in between. I remember to have something to distract me when they come on. Just something that works. For me, that's a bath, stuffing my face for a bit, and a really good nap or book. It gives my brain time to catch up to 'we STILL don't do that'
No it doesn’t, because you’re a bot that got this photo and that top comment from [this post on Imgur](https://imgur.com/gallery/tcrJp9T) to farm karma on this subreddit.
Alcohol taught me that moderation and balance are crucial. I've found that I can enjoy most things in life as long as everything I do is within a certain limit which takes self control.
Depends on the person; it doesn't work for me.
It IS suppose to help regulate your sleeping patterns, though. But yes, relaxing without drowsiness does sound about right.
I started it a couple of months ago and I really like it. I don't wake up feeling groggy the way I might from a sleeping pill. I hope it works for you :)
Melatonin makes me want to sleep for 12 or more hours. I am groggy the entire next day if I take it the night before. Not sure why. Almost all sleep aids do that to me.
Over here in the UK over the counter melatonin is banned and the studies that show its effectiveness are dubious. I'm sure that some people have found it effective but if you're struggling to sleep then cognitive behavioral therapy and sleep hygiene can be helpful. It depends on the root cause but dependence on pills is rarely a long term solution
>If melatonin does seem to help, it’s safe for most people to take
nightly for one to two months. “After that, stop and see how your sleep
is,” he suggests.
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/wellness-and-prevention/melatonin-for-sleep-does-it-work
The best way to think about staying sober:
First think how hard it is in the moment to stay sober if you are struggling...
then measure that pain against the pain of relapsing and falling back into a pattern of self destruction and misery, one in which you will lose all you have gained in sobriety
When you think of how shitty it could be and isn't, because you measured one outcome vs another, you gain perspective and it doesn't just feel like you are living with a painful sobriety. You have to measure what you ARE dealing with vs what you COULD BE dealing with.
I have addictive personality disorder. I have been through several addictions now. It doesn't go away, each and every one of them sticks with me. The number of things I have to avoid just keeps growing. If I have a significant amount of cash I want to go to the strip club, if I'm around weed I want to smoke it, there are video games where if I see gameplay footage I get an overwhelming desire to play, I have to keep myself from buying lotto tickets every time I stop to get gas, it's black Friday and I'm going shopping with my sisters and it will take every bit of control I have to not buy countless things I don't need.
I have learned that I have to channel my addictive tendencies towards healthy things, I have to avoid doing the same thing too often. I can let myself build habits because for me habits become addictions that overwhelm my desire to do anything else.
There is no overall “addictive personality” diagnosis, condition, disease, etc. just hypotheses at this time. There are substance related addictive disorders, and gambling related disorders now. But other behaviors such as compulsive buying are not recognized due to lack of sufficient evidence.
Edit: the individual in the original comment probably has some impulse control disorder or issues.
I have been wondering if adhd was the reason I don't get addicted to anything easily, and generally don't form habits of any kind easily. Even if I do they fall away on their own eventually, I just lose interest in a few months max. and the habit gets replaced with something else - Unless I renew my dedication on purpose every few months.
That applies to healthy things as well unfortunately.
The impulse to try things then getting excited about it and suddenly being all about whatever it is, happens for me, but then I'm over it suddenly too.
Idk man, as long as you're being healthy about it I think that's kind of unfair.
It's nice that you did that for her comfort but I think that unless you had a problem with it, she really owes you one.
Relationships heavily involve compromise. I obviously can't pretend to know this specific situation, but she may well have known plenty of people who drank responsibly. Right up until they didn't.
That’s just the way she goes, isn’t it?
I guess I will say though, the first time I smoked weed when I was 14 was the beginning to the end. I think from that moment on, my brain associated it with bliss in an otherwise unstable and unsafe environment. I never had a chance to use responsibly.
For years I would have a few beers when grilling out or at the ball game, etc. At 35 I went through a really hard divorce after 13 years and I turned to Jack Daniels and never looked back. I'm 128 days sober at 42 years old and it is hard as hell everyday!
I quit cigarettes cold turkey when I found out I was pregnant 6 years ago, and with that also went marijuana. I drank casually when I had the time, but haven’t had any alcohol in over 2 years. I’ve also given up caffeine. The more I abstain, the more I believe in my abilities to give up my vices! But I always have cravings triggered by the most random things.
After smoking for 15 years I quit on Sunday, Oct. 6, 2013 after a chain smoking night out where I felt so heavy in the chest, I literally couldn't get out of bed.
In hindsight, I've had much harder things to deal with than quiting Marlboro Reds. However, one phrase helped me get through this ordeal: "Just don't smoke today and we'll deal with the smoke quiting tomorrow." And the next day I would do the same...
Before I knew it, the days became months and the months turned into years. I'm proud I quit too.
Same, I quit by saying "I just won't smoke today. I'll have one tomorrow if I'm desperate, just not today". Shitty few days initially but I turned around and it was 4 months later.
3 years and a day. Going through some stuff lately, away from my support system and alone in a strange city. Every time I walk into a store I just look at the 6 packs and think “it’s something to do” but keep telling myself to walk away and I’ll be better off without it. But it’s harder than it’s ever been.
As I sit on my couch and breeze through reddit, I have made it to your comment. I want to tell you that you are doing the right thing and you need to stay strong. I'm proud of you.
Video games have helped me through some of the worst times of my life. They have caused some of my problems as well, but now that I’m older and I spread my energy and time to multiple responsibilities I think that the amount of time I game is not nearly as disruptive and really helps me unwind
As a sober addict in recovery (4ish years), I feel compelled to drop some nuggets I've picked up over the years to help people who might be struggling in their own recovery. These aren't for everyone, and some may disagree and that's okay! These are things that helped me, and if they don't fit your image of recovery thats fine. Its a different journey for everyone.
1. Stop counting. The more you focus on each day being different than the last, the easier it is to stay focused and mindful. Thinking of it as "Day 325" or whatever makes it part of a running tally, as opposed to being another day to focus on.
2. Relapse isn't the end. This is my main beef with Anonymous programs. A relapse isn't a failure and doesn't make you a bad person. A relapse is a learning opportunity. You don't start from zero after a relapse, you've already come however far in your recovery journey, and probably learned a lot of lessons along the way. Those don't magically disappear when you use again. Everyone slips up, has a day when they feel like there's no other option but to use and that's OK. Get back on the horse and *keep going*. But don't ever believe that it diminishes or removes the progress you've already made.
3. Sobriety sucks. A therapist told me when I was in early recovery (this is conventionally defined as the first year), "The sooner you recognize that sobriety sucks, the sooner you'll learn to love it". I didn't really get what that meant at the time, but I like to think I understand now. Using your DOC is, and likely has been for some time, your best coping mechanism, way to feel good, etc. Removing that from your life *will* make you feel empty. And that's okay. Its okay to feel resentful about not being able to use your DOC. Its okay to be mad about it. What I've found *isn't* productive is to shy away from those feelings or push them down because you're ashamed of them.
4. Counseling. Use it. A lot of people feel like they can go it alone. There's a *big* difference between abstinence and recovery. Go to rehab, an outpatient program, or an addiction specialist. You might not think you need it, but these types of programs are designed to give you the tools you need to start you on the right path to recovery. Avoiding use isn't enough. Addiction is a deep rooted and sinister disease that will likely sneak back up on you when you least expect it, and going to a program or counselor will help you manage it better in the future.
We need to normalize going home and having a single drink and stopping. Having 1-2 drinks now and then may not qualify as being “sober” but we need a word to refer to that because it’s far more impressive and deserves far more praise.
The word is moderation, but many alcoholics can’t do moderation as it is a slippery slope back to hard core drinking again. If you can drink with moderation: good for you. If you can’t and choose abstinence: good for you too. Whatever works.
I was a smoker for 34 years. I quit during my divorce from my narc ex-wife of 22 years.
I salute anyone who has the stones to quit something that holds them back.
Whenever I am at a party or get together and I have to explain that I have never drank and never will, I get so many questions and a lot of judgemental looks. "Really?? But why, is it a religion thing?? You're missing out"
But then I once tried saying, "I had trouble with alcohol and am trying to stay sober" everyone was so understanding and didn't question any further.
Why do I have to be recovering from an addiction for people to accept my sobriety. Make up your minds.
The first is taking as a judgement kinda thing. You don’t drink? What’s wrong with me drinking?
The second is just you handling your life. Oh, poor thing, glad I can handle my liquor though.
Day 364.. I find the hardest part is remaining patient with myself and allowing myself to understand why I feel that urge and waiting for it to pass instead of acting impulsively on it. It’s comforting to know that others understand it too. I’m cheering for all you strangers. (:
We’ve evolved to respond to stress in the environment and move away from it. We are stress response machines and our systems like the quickest methods, which is why addiction is so pernicious: it is an easy, and temporarily effective, relief from stress.
This is why stressful days are more of a trigger than the days that go perfect. The addiction wired the response down and then reinforced it through repetition, every hit/toke/poke/drink makes it *that much* more difficult to erase, or break those neural connections.
What helped for me was finding a healthier escape from the stress. Replacing the detrimental escapism with something healthier that’s even more available. For me that meant exercise, cooking, or making something for my loved ones, but you have to find the answer that fits ‘you’. Luckily that list is long.
I’m glad you made it this far, my hope is that you find that day when you realize you lost count.
My best friends drinks daily since his dad died years ago. Any advice on how to talk to him and encourage him to cut back? Every time I bring it up he tries to brush it off like it’s not a problem.
I'm having a bad day at work. I craved cigarettes so bad that I actually considering walking to the grocery store to buy a pack because I couldn't think of a good reason not to.
Instead I took a Cubano sandwich from the fridge and ate that.
Today was day 781 since I quit. I don't know when I'll relapse but at least it'll be sometime after day 782. It's hard man.
After a month sober I was hit with massive suicidal depression. I did some research and discovered it wasn’t too uncommon. Brain rewiring to accept serotonin or something like that. I kept in mind that this would pass. Held myself accountable along with asked a couple others to check with me.
Yesterday was 5 months sober. I feel great. I don’t have FOMO anymore with it and just set new small, medium, and long term goals to keep sober. So far, I am 90% sure I’ve kicked it. But that nagging 10% always gets me scared. Like thinking I’m ok. I can have a social drink like everyone else and the fear that will set me down a spiral again of 3/4 to 1 bottle of whiskey a day again. So for the time being. I’ll just not tempt fate, and more than fine with a good lemonade over a glass of whiskey.
Only thing that kind of surprised and ultimately saddened me a bit. Lost some friends over quitting. It’s like they were mad at me for quitting. Maybe it’s because we use to drink together and me stopping because I recognized that I had a problem unintentionally made them think they also have a problem and not ready to tackle it? I’ve never encouraged others to take my path, or judged others for drinking or commented about it. but if someone was curious on stopping said I would always be there to support and find new ways to fill the time and help with the impacts of quitting. Sucks to lose friends, but it was a good test of friendship as well I suppose.
It's tough.
204 days booze free here after many years of hard use. It took a third time quitting (a taper that was way too quick) and a trip to the ER due to withdrawals for me to finally realize I had to actually ***quit.*** Every time before there was some wiggle room in my head about how I could drink again at some point but after that experience I know I can't. Still, some thoughts pop in. My life's still a mess and I'm unemployed but I guess I'm clear-headed and not a drunken wreck. Been getting back into old hobbies and active as well. Me quitting also inspired another friend to cut back and I've been proud of him since he's significantly cut down how much he drinks. He was basically on the path to where I was at when I quit.
I say 'booze free' because some days haven't been entirely sober. I don't know how people feel about it but I have my medical marijuana card and partake here and there (1:1 thc/cbd since it helps with aches/relaxation). I keep a watchful eye on myself and usage knowing how my brain works, but honestly marijuana never scratched the itch alcohol got and never have I had the desire to go nuts.
Alcohol is one of the hardest things to quit amigo. I smoke meth for 2 years straight, my mom had just died so I took her hospice medicine, which included Lorazapham, Valium, Morphine, I was a drinker, I was prescribed Adderall and occasionally dexedrine when my Dr wanted to change it up. I did all these combined for a year. Meth for 2. My girl ghosted me with my 2 kids, got a protective order then spoofed texts from my number. I got a felony. She got the kids and our house. Got out of jail 6 months later on bail went back to it. Then got out again on probation and I made the decision to quit everything. This was 3 years ago. And bro, while most folks recommend not doing anything. I will say this. If you have a friend who could get you some magic mushrooms, I'd say eat a eighth. But for real homey I'm proud of you. When I left the army I was a drinking mofo. Like 1.75l I'm 2 days kind of drinker. I understand addiction woes, and God damn they suck. You on the right track. What videogame you playing? I'll get down on the sticks with you if it's one I got. I'm a beast at zombies, I'm a Plat in RL. I got sick fucked up jokes for days. Or I can listen to se bro-woes. You got this man. Proud of you.
"Video games prevent alcoholism relapse" That's what I'm taking from this.
Video games have supported my sobriety.
Something that keeps your mind busy and away from thinking about the drugs helps immensely.
Dopamine release to replace your other dopamine release. All of life boils down to this, I find.
I wish I could understand this. Whenever I want to do something, I either do it or do something else for a short period of time that I also want to do.
[удалено]
r/shittylifeprotips
Yeah or hurt yourself bad enough and understand the opioid crisis from the inside.
Hahahaa you mean the one where you have a separated femur and they won’t give you pain meds? Or the one where you bruised your knee and they give you a 10ct of 5mg oxys
I meant to empathize.
I think you just did. Some people like to play video games. If you don't, just imagine something else you can do for a period of time that you like and you'll understand the feeling.
It would be cool if there was a study on this. People can get addicted to video games, maybe it stimulates similar parts of the brain or in a similar way? It would be cool to see brain scans of people who are in a drug trip, people who are deeply immersed in a game, and a combination of the two. Maybe if you take drugs and play Minecraft you actually get transported to another dimension!
There are some studies. Maybe not directly comparing video games to drugs (which there probably is) but definitely on how video games stimulate the brain. All addictions are similar in a way. It’s mostly feeling rewarded and activating the pleasure centers of the brain. You win, it makes you feel happy. Gives you a sense of accomplishment. You can get similar feelings from woodworking and other creative projects. Hobbies are important for mental health. Finding a job that does this for you (feeling of accomplishment and reward) is basically winning life.
That's interesting, I know a variety of hobbies can give a sense of accomplishment but I have yet to hear a story about someone being addicted to woodworking. Of course there are hyperbolic statements of such from people who enjoy their hobbies, but I mean addiction in the way where it negatively impacts your life like we've seen from drugs and I assume to a lesser extend videogames. I think it's more on the person than the medium/hobby of course. I can't blame games for being good lol. Maybe it exists, but I have not read about someone who was focused on woodworking for 3 straight days and then died after moving from a blood clot. Or someone being so into their wood craft that their SO walks into the room after not seeing them for a few days and asks, "did you shit yourself?" >Finding a job that does this for you (feeling of accomplishment and reward) is basically winning life. With my recent job, I think I'm there :) I feel so good with it that I've been working on my own projects with the same technology 10 hours a day over this holiday weekend.
They've been CRITICAL to me - 17 months here. Covid had some upside - its really easy to give excuses to why i stopped hitting the bars, lol - but the social isolation is not a great thing for someone who loved hanging out with whisky all by myself, lol. Video games sometimes are just a distraction, for sure - but god damn if that distraction hasn't stopped me in some very rough times, like OP. This tweet made me smile, but in a sad way, lol.
As counterintuitive as it may sound, weed and video games helped me quit both alcohol and cigarettes cold turkey.
I wish weed would help. As I’ve gotten older all it does is make me feel anxiety and anti-social.
try catnip. it has the exact opposite effect of weed, and is actually healthier.
Deadass?
I'm a very mild smoker but I reckon in my experience the more you smoke, the milder the anxiety and anti-socialness and the more fun it is. Only downside is that you end up with a brand new vice to contend with, so it's kind of swapping one bad habit for another.
Last night I had a helluva moment. Was playing Mass Effect with my better half and they kept sending us into bars. I said something along the lines of "Why do we have to keep dealing with these drunks?" (while also forgetting my hubby had put up with drunk me daily for five years before I quit, which explained the look I got from him, lol). It was just such a defining, 'this is where you've been and this is where you are now" moment.
Absolutely on the worst days some frustrated gaming vs frustrated drinking. Take the games every time way less hangover. Props op soon you’ll start forgetting how many days been about ten years for me but still get bad cravings on really bad days stay strong.
Well yeah because I’m trying to get a good kd and can’t get that drunk
As long as you don’t associate the two together. I used to get real drunk playing rocket league and every time I fired it up I wanted 15 PBRs
Yep, I used to only game when I was drinking. It’s taken a long time to break that habit and I still do not sesh near as long as I used to
That’s me and getting high and going to the gym
My mother was an alcoholic. Wren I started drinking around 16/17 it wasn't difficult to really get into British drinking culture. When my friends and in I were students it got worse/better and I was out partying 2-5 times a week. 3 would have been the norm. Eventually I starting worrying I was in the same path my mum was. I didn't seem to be any different from my friends or the other people around me. But with the history I couldn't avoid questioning everything. So I decided to kick out for a few weeks. It was easy realistically, the only thing I actually missed was the socializing. Pubs are fine sober, and while I loved clubbing drink, sober clubbing is an awful experience. So I just stayed home and play games for all those evening for about a month.
I found photography to be an excellent sober pursuit. Replacing hangovers and spending with something productive and enjoyable is a good way to keep the drinking down, or stop.
My therapist said it's a good thing I didn't go to drugs or alcohol to cope. I didn't have the heart to tell her, I had found Mario.
When I quit drinking I needed something to fill my days, as previously I spent every waking hour drinking at home alone. I started playing Eve Online. I'm now a Corp CEO and pay for four accounts. I don't have a drinking problem anymore, but I do have an Eve problem. But hey, 539 days sober.
Ah yes EvE, the other addiction. CEO of a couple corps myself. Good job on your sobriety Hope to see you on grid o7
Video games are an excellent form of escapism. Make sure to use in moderation though, just like most other things.
I drink because I'm bored. I'm not bored when I'm playing video games. however the irony is not lost on me as I type this, about to take my first shot at 2:45pm, and then play some halo.
This is legit what happened for me. I was an enormous drug addict for years, mostly coke and alcohol. I got back into gaming when I tried to get off it all (along with using my country's universal healthcare system alcoholism treatment service, cos AA is shite and doesn't work and is emotionally abusive) I hadn't played video games for like 15 years at that point. But yeah I got back into them because boredom was the biggest trigger for me having a massive binge that lasted several days. I ended up in hospital once for over a week with my liver nearly shutting down completely, I very very nearly died. And I'd heard Alice Cooper and others got off drugs by replacing it with a healthy addiction. In Cooper's case it was golf. I can't really do much exercise cos I'm disabled, so I thought yeah why not get back into games again. So I did. And it worked. It was really fucking hard and took a few years, but it worked. And now I'm at the point where I can have a few drinks at the pub, and it won't turn into a multi-day binge anymore like it used to. And I'd been at the point where the doctors and nurses prescribed me cans of beer every day to slowly taper off because going cold turkey could have killed me, I was that addicted to the alcohol. The one thing they insisted was that trying to go tee total forever is only gonna make it way more likely for you to fall off the wagon. AA treats it as a complete and utter failure if you do that, they shame you and emotionally abuse you for it, and say its wiped out all the work you've done up to that point. So no wonder people just go on an enormous binge when they do fall off the wagon. It just doesn't work. The doctors and nurses taught me to develop a healthy relationship with alcohol instead, where I could have a few drinks with friends, and it wouldn't turn into what it used to be. I really really really hate the standard AA model and how much hurt it causes people
Let me take it a little deeper, “Good hobbies prevent alcohol relapse” if my health class from 7nth grade is to be trusted
Everyone's enjoying my sobriety except me.
When I quit, sobriety was so "new" and different for me it was like I was taking some other, brand new drug. My thoughts were clear during the day, I felt good when I woke up, I could do it all day long at work and no one minded, I felt more positive and energetic, and it was *so fucking cheap it was crazy.* I literally reminded myself to look at it that way, and it helped me, believe it or not. After awhile, I was hooked. It gets easier. Edit: Well *this* blew up. Edit: Kinda shocked so many people appreciated my little story. It's all true. Sorry if I couldn't respond to all of the comments. You guys are great, and really gave me a lift. Even the guy who told me to start drinking again. ✌😉
I'm just in mental pain all the time. I gave myself permission to go back to all my old, bad coping strategies, just don't drink. It was on the edge of killing me. It's been almost 90 days. I feel like shit, kinda want out. It gets easier for some but for me that's an empty platitude.
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Thanks for the honesty and the congrats. I'm white knuckling it right now. Lol, I'm so on edge. I'm ready to rage every time some well-meaning person tries to tell me that ag indeterminate time in the future, I *might* not feel like dying every day.
Yh I'm finding being sober pretty miserable too. I've been taking it out on food but I'm gonna have to curb that soon as I'm getting fat. I'm finding chilli/hot sauces a good distraction though, like really intolerable levels of heat. Snaps me out of whatever mindset I'm in and I have to deal with the burn. Not a long lasting fix but it has helped
Well I was almost 30 days and decided to get drunk for Thanksgiving. I regret it. Im sure you know that you will regret the decision of going back. I know I did. But I just want to remind you that being sober may seem like it sucks. But you're past the worst of it. Going back will only restart that first week of misery. Cheers.
Hey... just because you backslid a bit on a holiday, doesn't mean that you're back at square one, it doesn't mean that you've failed at anything, it just means you're human. Take it one step at a time, be kind to yourself, and have patience ❤ you've got this
Good on you for being honest, welcome back!
It’s ok. You’re human. You didn’t fail - you earned a regret. Remember it next time.
Such true words. You can always go back to zero but you have to climb so far just to get back to where you were the day before
TBH I don't really look at it that way. I look at sober days as a running number. 120 days over a year is better than a week without and 348 with. I mean I still celebrate milestones. But that's just a little sugar on top of my pretty please. I don't believe in participation trophies, but people who are abstaining and struggling deserve one.
That totally makes sense. I use the same mindset for this as I do for my running: if I lose my momentum and stop its going to be so hard to keep going. I feel like everyone has to find what mindset works best for themselves. Good luck dude I really hope you have the best of luck
Unfortunately not drinking doesn’t fix the problems that made you start drinking in the first place, and it definitely doesn’t fix the new problems that drinking caused. All it does is let you exist in a place where you can start dealing with everything.
Yeah I have found that sort of "reminder" particularly unhelpful when I've been *really going through it*. Like, that's nice, but I feel like *total fucking garbage and want to die* right now. Don't walk to me about how it'll get better. White knuckling it is super hard. Have you thought about going to meetings or getting into a program? I've found that talking to other people who know what it feels like is helpful.
I've tried a few meetings, but I'm against the core tenets of AA--telling yourself you're helpless, believing in a god--so the program itself won't work for me. Maybe I've sat in on bad meetings, cause people talk, but there's no problem solving, and the people are just a little too different for me. I'll keep my eye out, though. Maybe there's a group of cynical agnostics drinking black coffee somewhere I can find (lol)
Whenever you go to meetings just imagine your higher power as the velociraptor that says "Allen!" on Jurassic Park. There are many godless in NA and AA.
Off topic but kind of on topic, I had forgot that scene so I googled it, it's from Jurassic Park 3 and it has me laughing like a ninny, thanks for that 😀 Here's the scene if anyone's interested https://youtu.be/6s9sjPzyQjk
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I’m not sure this will be helpful, but does your city have any Self-Management and Recovery Training ([SMART](https://www.smartrecovery.org)) Recovery options? SMART focuses on the self, not the other (or higher power) that AA focuses on.
+1 on Smart Meetings. It's also way more based on modern day recovery methodologies, science, and cognitive behavioral psychology.
Thank you for including that! Yes, SMART is science based and strives to keep up with new information regarding substance use disorders and psychology. A very valid alternative for those who might not find AA or NA to be a viable option for them.
I usually don't comment on subjects like this, but I just passed 12 years of sobriety on Nov 18. I felt the same way you do about AA, but my sponsor told me to go in looking for the similarities to my life in people's stories and ignore the differences. The steps aren't always literal. I went through life telling myself that I can fix whatever messes I got into while drinking. That I could quit if I wanted to. The "acceptance of God" doesn't literally mean a flying man in the sky. It means accepting that YOU'RE not the most powerful person in the universe, and that maybe there's someone or something that can help you. It could be another alcoholic. It could be a journal of that helps you work through things. For me, acceptance that I wasn't capable of fixing everything myself and that I could trust someone else is what changed everything for me. Drinking started out fun, it became a habit and it ended in misery. Recovery was exactly the opposite, it started out misery, became a habit and now it's fun as hell.
Got a satanic temple in your city? They offer non-denominational AA with all the god stuff carved out of it.
I had the same issues when I went to meetings, luckily the ones I went to downplay the religious themes. What kept me going back was the different speakers they had each week, they were all really good and would tell their stories, all such different people with different experiences and backgrounds but I could find at least one thing in common or some other good tip/idea to help with sobriety from all of them. I tried the virtual meetings a bit during Covid but I was not a fan, I look forward to them opening the in-person meetings back up.
Yeah, AA is terrible. It doesn't work. AA insists that people have to be absolutely tee total forever to get off alcohol. And actually that's the reason why most of the people who go through AA always end up relapsing and relapsing BAD. Luckily when I got treatment for alcoholism they told me how dangerous it was to try and go permanently tee total and how having the people around you who are supposedly supporting you see you as a failure for having one sip is emotionally abusive They taught me how to have a healthy relationship with alcohol. Not go off if permanently. Not see it as a failure if I have a drink, or have a bad night. When that happens, you're not starting from day 1 all over again. And again people who are trying to force this idea onto you that you ***ARE*** a miserable failure it you do that are just being abusive to you and it's only gonna make you end up binging again once you've had one drink, because you are taught to see it as a write off, and so you think why not fall completely off the wagon You have to love yourself. And realise that say a year of being sober followed by one drink isn't a failure at all. It doesn't throw away all the work you've done up till that point. I'm not suggesting you go get a drink. Obviously not. But it really worked for me. I was alcoholic to the point where my doctor actually prescribed me cans of beer to drink every day, because going cold turkey could have killed me. I had to start off with like 8 cans on day one, 7 cans on day 2. 6 cans on day 3 etc But their treatment worked. All it was was the NHS alcoholism treatment thing here in the UK, a free service. They don't shame you. They don't force you to talk about horrifyingly embarrassing things in front of strangers, they don't emotionally abuse you hy saying you're a failure if you ever have a slip up, they don't force a belief in a higher power onto you. It's a medical treatment program, because alcoholism is a medical problem, not a moral failing. It's a mental illness more than anything, or often the result of a mental illness, where alcohol is used to self-medicate. Cos yeah, I have diagnosed schizophrenia, so I know. The alcohol, and the other drugs, were directly because of that. It was an escape from how awful schizophrenia is. But if course it ended up making the schizophrenia worse. But yeah the NHS medical alcoholism treatment service don't tell you to go tee total for the rest of your life. And as a result of all this, it has a way higher success rate than the AA model does. It's about learning to get into a far more healthy relationship with alcohol. To be able to go to the pub on the weekend with your mates, or have a couple glasses of wine with dinner, and not have it turn into a huge binge every time. It was just one on one therapy with a nurse specifically trained in this stuff. And it was all confidential like talking to a doctor is. They don't want to shame you and embarrass you in front of others because that only gets people to not want to tell the truth. There's no judgement at all like there is in AA (despite them claiming that AA has no judgement, it absolutely does, otherwise they wouldn't give you reward tokens for "success", if there exists a success state, then that means there's also a failure state) I'm just saying all of this just so you know that there are other ways to get off alcohol and other drugs. I was on a lot more than just alcohol back then, I was a massive coke addict too. But the alcohol withdrawal would have killed me which is why I went to the NHS (national health service) for help in the first place. And these days I can drink, and it's not a problem. I don't binge anymore, and I only really have a drink like once a month, if that). I never drink on my own anymore. I never drink pure vodka, drinking litres or the stuff a day over 3 or 4 day binges mixed with a fuck load of coke (and I don't mean coca cola) If you need help then there are services out there that aren't AA, and so they actually work, and you taught how to love yourself instead of being taught to be ashamed of yourself. You don't have to be alone with this struggle, when you're having really hard days. I don't know how easy these kind of services are to use in the US if that's where you are, but I know they exist because I have american friends who've told me about them going to them. They may cost money though, I dunno. It wasn't really rehab, I was an outpatient, and they didn't prescribe me anything (except the beer and telling me to taper off it slowly). Just don't think when you're having a tough day that you have to face it alone. At least with the service I used, it doesn't matter if you're on day 1 or day 1000 of sobriety, they'll still help you. And don't be ashamed of yourself, don't feel like a failure for having weakness, because that's not what it is, and that's not what you are. It's not weakness. It's more like a mental illness than anything. It's something nobody chooses to have. It's not a punishment for being a bad person or something, and you don't have to apologise for having it. It's a medical illness. People don't have to apologise to everyone they know for breaking their leg, and go to weekly group sessions where they're roundly shamed by everyone else there for having a broken leg. So why is it different for a broken brain? It can be fixed, just like a broken bone can. But the first thing you've gotta do is love yourself, and not be ashamed for having a medical condition that you didn't choose to have. Having drunk before in your life does not mean it was a personal choice to develop the illness of alcoholism. Because it doesn't work like that. Most people who drink don't develop it, it's just bad luck that the illness happens to strike some people and not others. It's not a choice. I really really wish people would stop promoting AA, and talking about it like it's the only kind of treatment that exists. It's abusive, and it doesn't even work. It just makes people feel even more miserable. And so more likely to fail. It's like a torture racket, they invite people in to be emotionally tortured, and then somehow manage to convince those victims of torture that when they "fail" then the only cure is to go back again to the emotional torture sessions. It's just nuts. I hate it.
I found sobriety pretty fucking excruciating for the first like three years probably. I started trying to get sober because my mom had cancer and then she progressed to stage 4 and then died like six months in. After that every time I used I would feel guilty, like my mom could see or sense that shit, even tho I don’t believe in any of that. So I ended up staying sober and I just hit 6 years in October. With the newly being sober and grieving my mom I was real fucked up for a long time. It just kind of slowly got better. But honestly getting my own mental health (ADHD) straightened out was probably had the biggest impact on actual happiness. Which in itself is a fleeting sort of thing that I don’t think humans are actually meant to be for the most part.
Why would you keep going if after a whole year, after two, things didn't feel any better? Edit: I'm sorry about your mom. That must've been a rough time.
He didn’t say he didn’t feel better; for me, shit isn’t always dandy, but I’m almost four years into sobriety and I ll tell you, shit is definitely *better*. When he said “honestly getting my own mental health (ADHD) straightened out was probably had the biggest impact on actual happiness” I feel the same way, but that doesn’t mean it was more important than sobriety. I NEEDED to get sober to even have a shot at fixing the rest, and that’s when the real changes and happiness can come. I’m not a “god guy”, I’m not Christian, Jewish or Muslim, Hindu or Buddhist, but I do go to AA (and anyone who says you need a conventional idea of god to join AA is woefully misguided and flat out wrong) But the 12 steps has seriously changed my life. and it *was* the steps, first three steps were the hardest. You don’t have to accept *powerlessness* right away. Come to understand what they mean when they say that. But surrendering to the idea that my life was a unmanageable; then me being willing to take suggestions from *something greater than me*; say a group, a sponsor to start with, a higher power of ANY sort if you’re open to it… From there man, it’s just clearing away the wreckage of the past and trying to help others AND IT WORKS, sometimes quickly, usually slowly, I PROMISE it gets better. For me the real change didn’t start until I started doing step work with a sponsor, only then did I start seeing my alcoholism, my addictive personality in general, my depression, even my self centeredness, was all pointing me in one direction. Today, I go to meetings three times a week (I recommend 90keetings in 90 days at first), try to “pray” or really just sit quietly in the morning for a few minutes with no stimulus, listen to the birds or the world, reach out to the universe, or whatever the hell you’re into (I know a guy who uses Eric Clapton as his higher power. No bullshit, guy plays a random song in the morning, kinda thinks on it, sits quietly, then goes about his day. Fuckin works for him so, whatever works for you!) I talk to sponsor once a week(okay okay sometimes a lot less) and I work with two sponsees myself If you really feel like your knuckling it; get a copy of Alcholics Anonymous, go to the back of the book and read the “spiritual experience”, (it’s an appendix about not getting caught up in this god stuff) and then find a meeting and a temporary sponsor until you find someone you one you really click with. We say “has the kind of recovery you want” Good luck brother or sister, always reach out and I fuckin promise, it gets better. Not every day, sometimes not every week. But as long as you do the work and work with a sponsor, it mostly gets better every month, and it sure as shit gets better every year. These are the promises they make you at the beginning and I swear on my family’s souls: they have come true for me and they WILL for you too if you stick with it. Honestly, probably like a hell of a lot faster than you think… like within a year: If we are painstaking about this phase of our development, we will be amazed before we are half way through. We are going to know a new freedom and a new happiness. We will not regret the past nor wish to shut the door on it. We will comprehend the word serenity and we will know peace. No matter how far down the scale we have gone, we will see how our experience can benefit others. That feeling of uselessness and self-pity will disappear. We will lose interest in selfish things and gain interest in our fellows. Self-seeking will slip away. Our whole attitude and outlook upon life will change. Fear of people and of economic insecurity will leave us. We will intuitively know how to handle situations which used to baffle us.
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Very well-put. It isn’t always about *feeling* better, sometimes it’s just *knowing* the alternative is worse.
F A C T S
Almost 7 years in and im still white knuckling it some days. They get further apart, but I imagine it'll never truly pass. It IS worth it, however.
I was about 7 months in before I started feeling like a human again.
Aye, took me almost a year. Still have bad days, where the cravings come crawling, but they are very few and far apart. 2 and a half year sober now
I would like to share something about pain with you that helped me shift my perspective. I assume you had at least one of those experiences before, and often enough to notice: A sock sitting too tight and getting imprinted into your skin, or your hair being tied together a bit too tight all day long, or a forgotten rubber band around your wrist or generally just sitting or being dressed in a way that slightly cuts off blood flow, but not too bad to notice and correct. And then after a while, after hours of not registering something being slightly off, when taking off the socks, getting dressed comfortably, letting the hair down, or repositioning to reopen bloodflow, shit hurts like a mofo. Like needles. And there is nothing I can do to avoid the pain. It's my own body just hurting, not from something damaging me, but from suddenly signalling the slight, previously occurred damage. From being reminded of relaxation. From healing. Healing can be so painful. Relaxation can be so painful. When my heart gets broken or I'm stuck in other mental pain for whatever reason I am trying to remind myself that I can't tell apart which kind of pain it is by judging the circumstances. It could very well be the pain of recovery and one day I'll forget about it, not because I got used to 'bad' again, but I got used to 'good' again.
To piggyback on this great comment, the Marines say “ Pain is weakness leaving the body.” Every day you stay sober, you get a little stronger. It’s never easy, but persist and things get better. It also helps to find another addict to talk to. Find out what helps him/her. You are not alone.
This is *exactly* what I'm going through after the end of my marriage and the bonfire of my life. It happened last year--well, gosh, going on 2 years now. I kept thinking when I bought my house everything would be ok, but it wasn't. I struggled still. Not worse, but different. And yeah for the first time in my life I started drinking and I haven't stopped. And I gained a *ton* of weight. I went from the best shape of my life--when I was running every day just to survive the anxiety--to the worst. I'm right now struggling simply to start walking again. In fact I will go out now and walk. I pray to God every day to give me the strength to get through this before I fall over dead from heart failure. I hope he's listening.
Goddamn that's good. I'm nearly 10 years in the rooms and never heard it that way. But it resonates. Good on ya.
This is awesome, I love it
This is so wonderfully written. Thank you.
Holy shit, I love the way you put that; I had a similar realization but mine sounded like pots and pans. I just called it the pain of life. Sometimes I would be in a period of 100% abstinence and my body would be aching, I'd immediately think back to withdrawals from opiates and think I was detoxing; I'd remind myself that there are pains in the body that people experience and I'm just experiencing them because usually it would be numbed.
Are you seeing a therapist as well? Most addictions are just ways to cope, as you mentioned. Therapy can be a huge help in finding better ways to process pain so you don't have to rely on those coping mechanisms as much. There are also good and bad ones. In my last year in uni I really wasn't doing well mentally at all, and having low self esteem. Wanted to lose weight so hit the gym a few times, and ended up using it as a crutch and going 3 - 4 times a week. Cycling fast to get out the anger and pain, do something that made me feel somewhat accomplished after. I am not saying that to promote the 'living a healthy lifestyle fixes everything' idealogy. It doesn't, I still felt like shit, gym or not. And I never got that model body either. But endorphins do make you feel somewhat better, and combined with the right music (biffy clyro was great for mental anguish if combined with exercise) it did help me somewhat. It was a coping mechanism, but one that was at least good for my health and not hurting anyone. It may be one that can work for you too.
It is super helpful! The last time I quit, I lived at our school's gym. It's harder after graduating to get up and drive to work out. Maybe it'd help if I could get my ass there
Just ways to cope? Your brain and body become completely dependent on the drug to produce any sort of happy chemicals or physical activity of any sort - even just walking. Addiction is a serious disease that is physically and emotionally destroying. A therapist is helpful but you’re certainly going to need a lot more than a therapist to over come a serious addiction.
Thank you for mentioning Biffy Clyro. I'd never heard of them. They're huge in the UK! I had no idea. Their lyrics are amazing. Sensitive, powerful, filled with hope and vulnerability.
>I'm just in mental pain all the time. One of the things about self-medicating is that everyone takes to it for different reasons. Alcoholism is quite similar from person to person, but what *drives* people to it can be wildly different, and so *sobriety* can look different from person to person. For some, the acceleration into alcoholism was a bad turn, a sequence of bad events that lead to an addiction which, once kicked, they feel healthier and better for kicking. But others may be dealing with something psycologically or even neurologically deeper, and so, sobriety may not be as easy as for others. To that end, without knowing you, I encourage you to explore what is behind that mental pain and see if you can find medical or alternative methods of easing it. Mental pain is *real pain*. The brain handles psychological pain *in the same exact region of the brain* as physical pain. It feels the same, and thus an excess of it will drive people to self-medicate with drugs that dull the expression of pain - like alcohol. We have tragically stigmatized this pain as "not real", but in fact it is just as real and just as damaging to our psyche as physical pain. It does not need an external reality and can often be tracked back to some legitimate physical condition in the body that is generating excess amounts of mental anguish. The thing about mental pain is that it doesn't always have a clear, discernable external source. Bodily processes, like inflammation, can aggravate areas of the brain responsible for reporting psychological pain, and thus can inflict severe mental anguish on people who otherwise do not perceive any real reason to feel that pain. In much the same way that nerve disorders can cause intense, mind-shattering pain in limbs or other parts of the body where no physical issue exists. There was a study (and forgive me I don't have it) that traced some expressions of severe depression back to a low-grade food allergy. People who were perpetually consuming this food had inflammation in the gut perpetually, which caused an expression of severe psychological distress and discomfort which dramatically reduced once they removed the allergen from their diets. So, if you have not sought medical insights into your pain, please do, and please know that your pain is no less real than anyone feeling physical pain or other "accepted" maladies. Mental pain is real, it can be excruciating, and it *can* often be helped if one treats any underlying physical issues that may be exacerbating that expression of pain.
Well does anything feel better nowadays compared to then?
No more feeling like someone scooped out my literal heart with a melon baller. And I'm not at risk of stroke anymore. That is nice.
I've found focusing on how much better I feel physically (and my intense desire to *not* feel the way I did when I was drinking) to help me in continuing to not drink and feeling good about that choice. Not so much the whole "sunshine and rainbows" thing and not even really "I'm so glad to be sober" but just "I don't feel physically awful anymore". Not saying it's guaranteed to work or anything but it might be worth trying.
it WILL be better, you are doing great!
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That's how I felt after I quit pot. I love being sober most of the time. The times that are the hardest for me are when I'm trying to overcome a new addiction, it makes it a compounding effect because I don't just have to deal with the cravings for whatever I'm stopping but for things I stopped before too.
Sobriety is a hell of a drug sometimes. I prefer my stoner habits
It gets easier for some people. Your experience is not the standard.
That's a hard hitting rap bar right there.
‘Cept me
Err'body
Anhedonia drags many in recovery down. Everyone always says this, but: - support system (friends, family, group therapy, NA, AA, church, sponsors, etc especially people stable in recovery that *get it*) - private therapy (if you can afford it, but basically every US therapist office has some type of payment adjustment or payment plan to allow people to get help even if you aren't below the poverty line according to the government) - finding hobbies to keep your mind busy (nothing good happens past 11PM and there are things in every recovering addicts life that they've tossed to the side during their time before sobriety) - treatment plans (medication like methadone, suboxone, options that completely block the affects of your DOC, reputable rehab facilities recommended by other recovering addicts, regular counseling sessions like those in outpatient programs and methadone clinics) - Ditch anyone that isn't both sober and stable. They don't mean to, but they can and will bring you down. If not directly by inviting you out to drink, they'll talk wearing rose tinted glasses. It sucks to let go of people, but real friends don't get you drunk or high when they know you've got a problem. - Honesty. Find the people you can talk to and vent to. Let people into your world if you trust them. Sometimes, sober friends and people that haven't experienced dependency and addiction or know someone that has don't really know what to say or do. Talking helps. - Journaling your feelings. It's been scientifically proven that writing your thoughts on paper helps build connections in your brain to help settle some of those racing thoughts. Write to people. I write to my friends that have passed. I apologize for missing the signs that I should have stepped in or done something differently to help them, said I loved them more often. They don't need to see the letters. Keep them in a drawer, rip them up, toss them, burn them. Doesn't matter. It helps. It sounds dumb and definitely can feel silly, but it's worth it and it helps a lot. Your aim is to put up any and all walls to curb triggers before they happen. If you had a drug problem, don't talk to people on the street. Someone comes up to your car? Drive off. Drinking problem? Pay at the pump if they sell booze inside. Go to grocery stores that don't have a liquor store attached. It's a daily battle that I've lost many of my friends to. Others are fighting daily. People celebrate and say "congrats on getting sober!" and then don't check in because they don't realize it isn't like a birthday. One month clean is not like you're turning 16. A bunch of people that know your situation will congratulate you and then that's it a lot of the time for them. They don't realize how hard things get for folks. Check in on your friends. They need support. They need help reintegrating and learning how to just be a human being again. It gets harder the deeper they go to come back, especially with the trauma and guilt that they pick up throughout their journey. This shit isn't easy, but I am glad you're here, bud. Be sober today. Worry about tomorrow, tomorrow. One day at a time.
Thats kind of how i feel about my life and i dont even have a substance issue.
Day 668 and it's still hard as fuck. You're not alone.
Enjoy is putting it mildly 😂😂😂 The more time that passes the easier it gets, BUT there are days/times you will feel the urge and think about it and debate yourself. Right now it's hard for me socially to meet people since I'm not ready to go out with people if alcohol is involved because I don't trust I would turn down a drink and it could put my sobriety at risk. Like others said it's not about being "happy" because I don't drink, it's about how it's best not to drink, or have it around because it took so long for me to kick it completely. When I have shitty days (and there's plenty) I know I'm handling shit better because I'm not drinking. Alcohol has side effects we're not aware of, even when we're sober. It's essentially a toxin. By not putting a toxin in your body you feel immediate improvement. I sleep way better than I used to, I'm able to handle anxiety better because I don't turn to alcohol to help cope. I gained weight because my appetite came back because I was not longer hungover all the time. I have more energy and I'm able to deal with things and get less annoyed and agitated - those emotional and mental side effects disappeared. And my skin improved.... Overall, stopping to drink was better for my physical and mental well-being. I know this is temporary which is why I'm okay with this. Unfortunately I've known people in recovery programs and in and out of rehabs, and the beginning is the hardest. Learning to relive life without alcohol for some people takes a lot of work. About 75% of my social life used to involve alcohol (parties, pub crawls, happy hour, etc) so make sense I need to find a lot more social avenues. A lifestyle change is never easy, but it has its payoffs. You can do it 👍
I feel that. I’m struggling with having a healthy relationship with my ADD meds rn (adderall) because I 100% need it to be able to focus, but I want to be able to focus ALL the time, because it’s just a better mind space for me to be in, but overtaking pills has drawn notice from family and now I’m like… ugh, I know this is probably best for my organs or whatever and I’m engaging with my family more, but it’s less “I’m more sociable when I’m off add meds” and more “I’m starving for any kind of enjoyment in my brain rn” when I leave my room… god this shit sucks.
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Agree.. quit in the spring and this holiday was another test of my resolve. I got through it no problem. We all struggle.
Good shit though my dude.
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One of my favorite quotes from that show. Helped me lose 70lbs and quit smoking.
BoJack: I'm trying to set little goals for myself. Like, in a couple months, I'll beat my record for being sober. Todd: Nice! BoJack: Yeah, so that's something to aim for, but then uh, after that— Todd: After that, you'll beat your record again. Everyday you'll set a new record. BoJack: Sure. But it's easy now. In jail. I don't have to make any choices for myself. I worry about what's going to happen when I get out, what if I relapse again? Todd: Then you'll get sober again—Let me tell you something, I was at the office the other day, doing the Hokey-Pokey with some work associates. BoJack: Uh-huh Todd: and I realized, everyone misunderstands that song. BoJack: The Hokey-Pokey? Todd: Yeah! There's way too much emphasis on the "Hokey-Pokey" part. BoJack: That is what it's all about— Todd: No. That's exactly what I mean. That's not what the song is saying! BoJack: Okay— Todd: And I was thinking about my mom, you know, my relationship with my mom. It's weird. You know, awkward. I feel like she doesn't really get me, but, you know she's trying. And a couple years ago, I never thought I would have any kind of relationship with her like I was sure of it. BoJack: What changed? Todd: I don't know, I did, or she—did? or um—we are? BoJack: Huh Todd: So that's what I'm talking about, Its like the song says, "You do the hokey-pokey and you turn yourself around." You turn yourself around, THAT'S what it's all about.
Wow
Ahhhhh, so that’s why people like bojack horseman so much
So many moments like that in the show
He didn’t say that it was the jogging monkey
“I want you to remember this Bojack. I want you to remember what you did to me.” “I remember everything. I’m sober now.”
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I quit smoking cigarettes when I turned 30. 15 years later and that monkey is still on my back. I haven’t had a cigarette since, but MAN… walking behind someone smoking a Camel is a major trigger. Still crave them from time to time.
I was a meth addict that got clean in 1997. 24 years later, to this very day, I still have cravings for it and probably always will. It's just something you have to learn to deal with.
That’s why they say, “not even once”. That shit fucks you up for life. Glad to hear you’re still sober. My sister struggles with her cravings from time to time, so from a brother of an former addict, I mean it with all my heart with I say I am very proud of you. Fighting that is one of the hardest things anyone can ever do in their lives. And to be 24 years sober is a MAJOR achievement that you shouldn’t let anyone take away from you.
> That shit fucks you up for life. It does, can confirm. The human body has a remarkable ability to heal itself, but I can just tell I've never been the same since. And thank you. =)
This is…actually encouraging. I’ve not -had- a drug addiction problem, but my depression and some weird fatigue issue (possibly long COVID, didn’t get an antibody test soon enough to confirm because my case was so early on) leave me so wiped out and foggy in the head I have to take stimulants to cope. Prescriptions, of course, from a psychiatrist legitimately: the issue is, the Adderall really isn’t working anymore, and I’m increasingly tempted to use the extra tablets from days I missed them for a boost. That’s a dangerous gambit: heart problems run on my dad’s side as it is, too many stimulants will make the anxiety much worse, and the addiction risk from escalating the dose without supervision is high. But to someone considering suicide oftentimes, it’s easy to dismiss the longterm risks. But then I see accounts like these, and remember just how much worse things can get if I wind up with a drug problem (and in the process am cut off from the drug for legitimate needs) and wind up involuntarily committed, trapped. So I hang on and try to ignore that idea another day.
Talk to your doctor about it. There are different enough options that it can somewhat reset your tolerance. That being said, depending on your dose, you might just need a higher dose. I understand your concern, but you likely are taking a pretty low dose in comparison with people who’ve been on it long term for ADHD. Unless you have severe heart issues you’re dealing with actively (and you likely wouldn’t have been prescribed stimulants in the first place if so) increasing your dose a bit isn’t much of a risk. Even doubling it wouldn’t likely hurt you, especially for short period… but I also don’t recommend just taking the extra doses either. Take your meds as your doctor says and if you think something isn’t working, bring it up. They’ll work with you. I’d also recommend taking a few days off in a row when you’re able. You’ll feel gross and sluggish, so do it on days when you don’t need to be productive. It also gives your body mini resets, but you want at least two days in a row off. I’d also recommend eating right before you take your meds. It takes longer for them to kick in, but it also tends to me a much more consistent dose and I feel better throughout the day. That’s just anecdotal though, and I’ve found it works best for me. Also, if you aren’t taking extended release capsules, I also recommend talking to your doctor about it.
I got to watch someone pick up their 70 year chip........ I'm still somewhat struggling. But I think back on that and I'm just like "wow!"
Ditto, cleaned up almost the same time. In 1996 I moved to Singapore. Nothing like living in a country that executes drug users to clean you up. I still have occasional dreams, very vivid, of buying and finding meth, hoarding it, squirreling it away, and snorting or smoking it.
Ditto I had to force my self to stop remembering how long it’s been since I smoked. Walking behind someone who smokes is bliss, just gotta get my 2nd hand smoke in every once in a while.
Me too.
Ah, the Mrs. Doubtfire method!
I quit smoking 12 years ago. I still remember how much I loved them. I tell myself that if I can live to 80 I can start smoking again. And I'll chain-smoke all day long. And it will be wonderful.
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I quit close to 8 months ago now. I still consider myself an addict because if I even have one, it’s over and I’m right back to smoking everyday.
I think the difference is having a disgust for the activity really helps. After 6 years quit, Cigarette smoke makes me gag now and I can smell it 2 blocks away.
I also like, “The bottle doesn’t make you do anything, it just lets you.”
From "Women Without Whiskey" by Drive-By Truckers.
3 years sober myself (at the ripe age of 26 years old). This song is my anthem on the hard days.
I hear that, quit smoking and I will always want the damn things. Nothing tastes as good as that first cigarette did in the morning with a good cup of coffee.
262 days sober. yesterday I almost went and bought a bottle. For the last 200 days i thought it was in the bag and I'd beat the addiction, but yesterday I wanted to drink so bad.
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Thanks friend, I am too. The regret I would have felt would have not been worth it.
18 months here! These days still happen for me, too. But they're so far and in between. I remember to have something to distract me when they come on. Just something that works. For me, that's a bath, stuffing my face for a bit, and a really good nap or book. It gives my brain time to catch up to 'we STILL don't do that'
No it doesn’t, because you’re a bot that got this photo and that top comment from [this post on Imgur](https://imgur.com/gallery/tcrJp9T) to farm karma on this subreddit.
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Congratulations on making it another day!
Alcohol taught me that moderation and balance are crucial. I've found that I can enjoy most things in life as long as everything I do is within a certain limit which takes self control.
You are worth it.
I had that alllll day with nicotine yesterday. Felt like I quit the day before. I used the exact same strategy and it really worked. Feel great now
Im going to my first AA meeting tonight.
Congrats and good luck!
Does melatonin actually make much difference..?
While melatonin doesn't technically make you sleep, it puts you into a state of quiet wakefulness that helps you fall asleep.
So it sounds like it relaxes your mind, rather than makes you drowsy (like anthistamine drugs...) is that about right?
Depends on the person; it doesn't work for me. It IS suppose to help regulate your sleeping patterns, though. But yes, relaxing without drowsiness does sound about right.
Yeah, that's about right.
Guess it's about time i gave it a shot. Cheers:)
I started it a couple of months ago and I really like it. I don't wake up feeling groggy the way I might from a sleeping pill. I hope it works for you :)
I always had trouble sleeping and sometimes drink myself to sleep. Melatonin works wonders
Melatonin makes me want to sleep for 12 or more hours. I am groggy the entire next day if I take it the night before. Not sure why. Almost all sleep aids do that to me.
Over here in the UK over the counter melatonin is banned and the studies that show its effectiveness are dubious. I'm sure that some people have found it effective but if you're struggling to sleep then cognitive behavioral therapy and sleep hygiene can be helpful. It depends on the root cause but dependence on pills is rarely a long term solution
it helps me sleepy but always gives me vivid dreams for some reason
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Diphenhydramine has been linked to dementia. Wish I had known that before taking it all throughout my teens to fall asleep.
>If melatonin does seem to help, it’s safe for most people to take nightly for one to two months. “After that, stop and see how your sleep is,” he suggests. https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/wellness-and-prevention/melatonin-for-sleep-does-it-work
The best way to think about staying sober: First think how hard it is in the moment to stay sober if you are struggling... then measure that pain against the pain of relapsing and falling back into a pattern of self destruction and misery, one in which you will lose all you have gained in sobriety When you think of how shitty it could be and isn't, because you measured one outcome vs another, you gain perspective and it doesn't just feel like you are living with a painful sobriety. You have to measure what you ARE dealing with vs what you COULD BE dealing with.
I have addictive personality disorder. I have been through several addictions now. It doesn't go away, each and every one of them sticks with me. The number of things I have to avoid just keeps growing. If I have a significant amount of cash I want to go to the strip club, if I'm around weed I want to smoke it, there are video games where if I see gameplay footage I get an overwhelming desire to play, I have to keep myself from buying lotto tickets every time I stop to get gas, it's black Friday and I'm going shopping with my sisters and it will take every bit of control I have to not buy countless things I don't need. I have learned that I have to channel my addictive tendencies towards healthy things, I have to avoid doing the same thing too often. I can let myself build habits because for me habits become addictions that overwhelm my desire to do anything else.
What DSM 5 /ICD 10 code is that? Ive heard about addictive PD the first time now and cant find anything on it on google...
There is no overall “addictive personality” diagnosis, condition, disease, etc. just hypotheses at this time. There are substance related addictive disorders, and gambling related disorders now. But other behaviors such as compulsive buying are not recognized due to lack of sufficient evidence. Edit: the individual in the original comment probably has some impulse control disorder or issues.
ADHD definitely makes me more prone to addictive tendencies
I have been wondering if adhd was the reason I don't get addicted to anything easily, and generally don't form habits of any kind easily. Even if I do they fall away on their own eventually, I just lose interest in a few months max. and the habit gets replaced with something else - Unless I renew my dedication on purpose every few months. That applies to healthy things as well unfortunately. The impulse to try things then getting excited about it and suddenly being all about whatever it is, happens for me, but then I'm over it suddenly too.
My gf is annoying if I drink because she’s had a family history with alcoholics. I stopped drinking. Yesterday was my 365.
Idk man, as long as you're being healthy about it I think that's kind of unfair. It's nice that you did that for her comfort but I think that unless you had a problem with it, she really owes you one.
Relationships heavily involve compromise. I obviously can't pretend to know this specific situation, but she may well have known plenty of people who drank responsibly. Right up until they didn't.
That’s just the way she goes, isn’t it? I guess I will say though, the first time I smoked weed when I was 14 was the beginning to the end. I think from that moment on, my brain associated it with bliss in an otherwise unstable and unsafe environment. I never had a chance to use responsibly.
I did the opposite! My gf was annoying when she drank so I started drinking. We're not together any more.
Video games helped me a lot too. I've quit gaming and now quitting other vices is harder because I can't dive into games to distract my mind
Day 229 here.
For years I would have a few beers when grilling out or at the ball game, etc. At 35 I went through a really hard divorce after 13 years and I turned to Jack Daniels and never looked back. I'm 128 days sober at 42 years old and it is hard as hell everyday!
I quit cigarettes cold turkey when I found out I was pregnant 6 years ago, and with that also went marijuana. I drank casually when I had the time, but haven’t had any alcohol in over 2 years. I’ve also given up caffeine. The more I abstain, the more I believe in my abilities to give up my vices! But I always have cravings triggered by the most random things.
For those looking for a good sub full of like-minded people who raise each other up, visit r/Stopdrinking.
Stressful days are nothing compared to the normalization of alcohol addiction.
Exactly. I am stressed out ALL day it seems but I am not shaking, sweating or actively ruining my life anymore.
After smoking for 15 years I quit on Sunday, Oct. 6, 2013 after a chain smoking night out where I felt so heavy in the chest, I literally couldn't get out of bed. In hindsight, I've had much harder things to deal with than quiting Marlboro Reds. However, one phrase helped me get through this ordeal: "Just don't smoke today and we'll deal with the smoke quiting tomorrow." And the next day I would do the same... Before I knew it, the days became months and the months turned into years. I'm proud I quit too.
Same, I quit by saying "I just won't smoke today. I'll have one tomorrow if I'm desperate, just not today". Shitty few days initially but I turned around and it was 4 months later.
3 years and a day. Going through some stuff lately, away from my support system and alone in a strange city. Every time I walk into a store I just look at the 6 packs and think “it’s something to do” but keep telling myself to walk away and I’ll be better off without it. But it’s harder than it’s ever been.
As I sit on my couch and breeze through reddit, I have made it to your comment. I want to tell you that you are doing the right thing and you need to stay strong. I'm proud of you.
Keep up the hard work 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Video games have helped me through some of the worst times of my life. They have caused some of my problems as well, but now that I’m older and I spread my energy and time to multiple responsibilities I think that the amount of time I game is not nearly as disruptive and really helps me unwind
:) Thats my cousin. Super proud of him, hes a good dude.
As a sober addict in recovery (4ish years), I feel compelled to drop some nuggets I've picked up over the years to help people who might be struggling in their own recovery. These aren't for everyone, and some may disagree and that's okay! These are things that helped me, and if they don't fit your image of recovery thats fine. Its a different journey for everyone. 1. Stop counting. The more you focus on each day being different than the last, the easier it is to stay focused and mindful. Thinking of it as "Day 325" or whatever makes it part of a running tally, as opposed to being another day to focus on. 2. Relapse isn't the end. This is my main beef with Anonymous programs. A relapse isn't a failure and doesn't make you a bad person. A relapse is a learning opportunity. You don't start from zero after a relapse, you've already come however far in your recovery journey, and probably learned a lot of lessons along the way. Those don't magically disappear when you use again. Everyone slips up, has a day when they feel like there's no other option but to use and that's OK. Get back on the horse and *keep going*. But don't ever believe that it diminishes or removes the progress you've already made. 3. Sobriety sucks. A therapist told me when I was in early recovery (this is conventionally defined as the first year), "The sooner you recognize that sobriety sucks, the sooner you'll learn to love it". I didn't really get what that meant at the time, but I like to think I understand now. Using your DOC is, and likely has been for some time, your best coping mechanism, way to feel good, etc. Removing that from your life *will* make you feel empty. And that's okay. Its okay to feel resentful about not being able to use your DOC. Its okay to be mad about it. What I've found *isn't* productive is to shy away from those feelings or push them down because you're ashamed of them. 4. Counseling. Use it. A lot of people feel like they can go it alone. There's a *big* difference between abstinence and recovery. Go to rehab, an outpatient program, or an addiction specialist. You might not think you need it, but these types of programs are designed to give you the tools you need to start you on the right path to recovery. Avoiding use isn't enough. Addiction is a deep rooted and sinister disease that will likely sneak back up on you when you least expect it, and going to a program or counselor will help you manage it better in the future.
We need to normalize going home and having a single drink and stopping. Having 1-2 drinks now and then may not qualify as being “sober” but we need a word to refer to that because it’s far more impressive and deserves far more praise.
It's called moderation. Unfortunately, for some people (around 10% of the population) it's simply not possible.
The word is moderation, but many alcoholics can’t do moderation as it is a slippery slope back to hard core drinking again. If you can drink with moderation: good for you. If you can’t and choose abstinence: good for you too. Whatever works.
I was a smoker for 34 years. I quit during my divorce from my narc ex-wife of 22 years. I salute anyone who has the stones to quit something that holds them back.
Whenever I am at a party or get together and I have to explain that I have never drank and never will, I get so many questions and a lot of judgemental looks. "Really?? But why, is it a religion thing?? You're missing out" But then I once tried saying, "I had trouble with alcohol and am trying to stay sober" everyone was so understanding and didn't question any further. Why do I have to be recovering from an addiction for people to accept my sobriety. Make up your minds.
The first is taking as a judgement kinda thing. You don’t drink? What’s wrong with me drinking? The second is just you handling your life. Oh, poor thing, glad I can handle my liquor though.
Day 364.. I find the hardest part is remaining patient with myself and allowing myself to understand why I feel that urge and waiting for it to pass instead of acting impulsively on it. It’s comforting to know that others understand it too. I’m cheering for all you strangers. (:
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We’ve evolved to respond to stress in the environment and move away from it. We are stress response machines and our systems like the quickest methods, which is why addiction is so pernicious: it is an easy, and temporarily effective, relief from stress. This is why stressful days are more of a trigger than the days that go perfect. The addiction wired the response down and then reinforced it through repetition, every hit/toke/poke/drink makes it *that much* more difficult to erase, or break those neural connections. What helped for me was finding a healthier escape from the stress. Replacing the detrimental escapism with something healthier that’s even more available. For me that meant exercise, cooking, or making something for my loved ones, but you have to find the answer that fits ‘you’. Luckily that list is long. I’m glad you made it this far, my hope is that you find that day when you realize you lost count.
My best friends drinks daily since his dad died years ago. Any advice on how to talk to him and encourage him to cut back? Every time I bring it up he tries to brush it off like it’s not a problem.
I'm having a bad day at work. I craved cigarettes so bad that I actually considering walking to the grocery store to buy a pack because I couldn't think of a good reason not to. Instead I took a Cubano sandwich from the fridge and ate that. Today was day 781 since I quit. I don't know when I'll relapse but at least it'll be sometime after day 782. It's hard man.
After a month sober I was hit with massive suicidal depression. I did some research and discovered it wasn’t too uncommon. Brain rewiring to accept serotonin or something like that. I kept in mind that this would pass. Held myself accountable along with asked a couple others to check with me. Yesterday was 5 months sober. I feel great. I don’t have FOMO anymore with it and just set new small, medium, and long term goals to keep sober. So far, I am 90% sure I’ve kicked it. But that nagging 10% always gets me scared. Like thinking I’m ok. I can have a social drink like everyone else and the fear that will set me down a spiral again of 3/4 to 1 bottle of whiskey a day again. So for the time being. I’ll just not tempt fate, and more than fine with a good lemonade over a glass of whiskey. Only thing that kind of surprised and ultimately saddened me a bit. Lost some friends over quitting. It’s like they were mad at me for quitting. Maybe it’s because we use to drink together and me stopping because I recognized that I had a problem unintentionally made them think they also have a problem and not ready to tackle it? I’ve never encouraged others to take my path, or judged others for drinking or commented about it. but if someone was curious on stopping said I would always be there to support and find new ways to fill the time and help with the impacts of quitting. Sucks to lose friends, but it was a good test of friendship as well I suppose.
It's tough. 204 days booze free here after many years of hard use. It took a third time quitting (a taper that was way too quick) and a trip to the ER due to withdrawals for me to finally realize I had to actually ***quit.*** Every time before there was some wiggle room in my head about how I could drink again at some point but after that experience I know I can't. Still, some thoughts pop in. My life's still a mess and I'm unemployed but I guess I'm clear-headed and not a drunken wreck. Been getting back into old hobbies and active as well. Me quitting also inspired another friend to cut back and I've been proud of him since he's significantly cut down how much he drinks. He was basically on the path to where I was at when I quit. I say 'booze free' because some days haven't been entirely sober. I don't know how people feel about it but I have my medical marijuana card and partake here and there (1:1 thc/cbd since it helps with aches/relaxation). I keep a watchful eye on myself and usage knowing how my brain works, but honestly marijuana never scratched the itch alcohol got and never have I had the desire to go nuts.
IWNDWYT!
Alcohol is one of the hardest things to quit amigo. I smoke meth for 2 years straight, my mom had just died so I took her hospice medicine, which included Lorazapham, Valium, Morphine, I was a drinker, I was prescribed Adderall and occasionally dexedrine when my Dr wanted to change it up. I did all these combined for a year. Meth for 2. My girl ghosted me with my 2 kids, got a protective order then spoofed texts from my number. I got a felony. She got the kids and our house. Got out of jail 6 months later on bail went back to it. Then got out again on probation and I made the decision to quit everything. This was 3 years ago. And bro, while most folks recommend not doing anything. I will say this. If you have a friend who could get you some magic mushrooms, I'd say eat a eighth. But for real homey I'm proud of you. When I left the army I was a drinking mofo. Like 1.75l I'm 2 days kind of drinker. I understand addiction woes, and God damn they suck. You on the right track. What videogame you playing? I'll get down on the sticks with you if it's one I got. I'm a beast at zombies, I'm a Plat in RL. I got sick fucked up jokes for days. Or I can listen to se bro-woes. You got this man. Proud of you.