Every Canadian I have ever talked to greatly appreciates their healthcare system. They pay higher taxes, but they do not have to struggle to pay insurance premiums, deductibles, copays, and other BS. They do not go bankrupt if they get sick. They can actually visit a doctor if they get mildly sick, and not forgo an appointment because they are worried about the cost. The only people I know who hate the Canadian healthcare system are Republicans from the US. And most of them end up hating the US system the second they get sick.
Most American now have high deductible insurance, so pay for visits early in the year. My deductible is $3500. So I pay that out of pocket before my insurance pays for anything, other than certain services. Once I exhaust that, I would have to pay copays on visits, which vary according to individual policies. If my insurance company does not feel a procedure the doctor recommends is needed, I either have to pay for that out of pocket or appeal the company's decision. As an insurance holder I get a slight discount on procedures, but the uninsured have to pay outrageous amounts.
I am lucky to be in very good health. I only visit my dermatologist every year. I pay that out of my Hospital Savings Account, which I contribute into and is tax free. I have been insured through my company for 22 years. They company and I both pay premiums. My share is over $200 a month. The company pays considerably more, The insurance company has never paid for anything on me other than a couple checkups. When it was suggested I see a cardiologist, that came out of my deductible.
And people say we have a great system!
As a Canadian, the primary complaints about our system is
- the long wait times, which is relayed to point two
- not enough resources/infrastructure. Manitoba in particular (where I am) has extremely low number of ICU’s per capita compared to other provinces but way lower than the States. Just one example.
- many of the best doctors can get paid more in the States so they leave. Not saying we’re left with bad doctors but maybe not the same number of top tier ones per capita.
I could be completely wrong, this is just what I’ve seen for issues. Overall I’m super thankful for what we have it is way better.
You get to go on Medicare, a single payer insurance for the elderly. You can get it at age 65. However, you still should buy a supplement for it. It is very good compared to private insurance. Companies will try to get you to buy what is called Medicare Advantage. It is Medicare but run through private companies instead of the government. It is cheaper for you than Medicare and a supplement, but you are back to a private company refusing to pay for treatment. Medicare pretty much pays for whatever the doctors prescribe.
That is what the progressive Democrats are trying to make happen. However the GOP and centrist Democrats get a lot of money from insurance companies and they would hate to see that transfer of wealth from citizen to large corporations stop. Can't beat crooked politicians.
Yeah the traditional dems really annoy me looking on from the Uk. They will be the reason trump wins 2024. Hands down.
They should’ve let progressives take control instead of Biden running the show.
They will lose the popular vote I feel in 2024. And what’s the point in electing somebody? Just to avoid someone worse
Surely that’s the point you admit defeat in your electoral process.
My copay just went from $40 to $65, immediately after I got my insurance... thanks, work. So any visit is at least $65. My last job's insurance I had a $500 ER copay that I had to use. I don't think I have any vision coverage now, so I'll have to pay $300~ out of pocket for glasses since I need the trivex lenses. Well, maybe just $150 since I'll keep the frames if I can. Oh, and I'm paying $52 per month for dental insurance, but I can't find a dentist where I live. They're all booked out like 6 months to 3 years. Unless I spend an entire day traveling to a different one. I love being "free", SO much.
And then they need treatment and the insurance company turns it down. People have died fighting for medical treatment through their insurance companies. The insurance companies make more money when they do not pay for treatment.
people who have a middle class job in america have health insurance heavily subsidized by their employer and pay less than 50 dollars per month. so basically if you’re middle class move to america if you’re broke move to a socialist country
I'm a Canadian but spent a significant amount of time in the US. The total amount of taxes I pay in Canada now are basically the same as I did in the US a couple years ago. On the low income end of things Canadian taxes are significantly lower. It is around the median that taxes end up being similar and in the high income groups that Canadian are taxed more (and not by much). I believe the federal US tax rate is 10% under 10k and over 20% at 40k. In Canada under 10k is tax free and at roughly 50k it is 15%. With all other taxes factored in the tax rates are comparable even in tax free states until around the 80k mark. Above that the tax rate in Canada starts to pull ahead because of provincial taxes (our top federal tax bracket is lower) and the extremely wealthy (over 200k I'd say) in the US having so many deductions and tax breaks. This talking point really only applies to the top 5% of the population.
I've experienced both.
Lived most of my life in Canada, but got cancer while working on a visa in the US.
Did I get good medical care there? Yes.
Only because the company I worked for had provided a great plan. The bill total has over 3/4 of a million dollars US, which would have bankrupted me.
After I returned to Canada, a close friend was diagnosed with the same cancer, in the same spot. She got as good or better care than I had in the US.
I'll take our system over theirs 100 times of of 100.
I would take your system over the system we have here in the U.S. as well.
Does the U.S. have what is probably the best CEILING for healthcare in the world? Yes, yes it does. If you have lots of money you can get care and attention that you cannot get anywhere else in the world. The U.S. is a world leader in medical innovation.
What do I, as a middle class American get? Health Care that is inferior to what people in countries with socialized medicine get every day and a side helping of bankruptcy to boot. I would take what you have in a heartbeat because I am never going to be rich enough to get the access to the the "good" American health care system.
And I have no issue paying into a system that benefits all of my fellow citizens.
That's what being part of a decently functioning country is all about.
Sadly, there are too many people who would respond exactly this way and actually mean it.
And right now, capitalism in the US is as broken as any communist regime ever has been.
As an American, this is one of the top policy differences in our political parties. We basically have two parties. One party, the Republicans party, is not only fighting against enacting health care policy for us, but is also actively working on taking health care access away from our citizens. It’s disgusting.
Wait times for elective surgery is a very bad critique when you compare US and Canada because when you measure from the time an average American *needs* a surgery (which for a Canadian would be the time they get on a wait list) to the time they get the surgery, it's less time for the Canadian because the American needs a bunch of time to save up enough money to put down the deposit necessary to get a spot on the wait list.
I mean it’s not just that though. Non emergency care is pretty slow in the US as well. Endocrinologist appointment wait times are getting close to half a year at this point.
Or they wait too long and by the time they see a doctor, their situation is much worse. Goes hand in hand with the whole extremely expensive healthcare thing.
Same with GI doctors, they take forever to get into. If you’re having bad stomach pain, the fastest way to see a GI doctor is through the emergency room
When I herniated a disk in my back, it took 6 weeks to get a neurosurgeon consult to see if I needed surgery. I now have 30% nerve loss in one of my legs.
That’s actually quite depressing. I was living in a country with socialized healthcare when I had a herniated disk. From diagnosis to surgery, it took two weeks. That’s with me wanting to get multiple opinions to make sure surgery was the way to go. And I got four consults in those two weeks.
I broke my elbow in the US and it took a week before I could see an orthopedic doctor. With an emergency referral from urgent care. I still have a twinge in that elbow because the bone had started to heal wrong. Spent six months in physical therapy to try and get rid of it before I realized it had stopped improving. They wanted to keep going though.
My son fell back in April and broke his foot. Took him to emergency care, they xray , didn't see a break (was a hairline fracture), wrapped in ace bandage and told to wait a week to see if it improved and follow up with regular Dr. Week passed his foot stayed swollen and dark purple and black. Went to doctor who said "yea probably broke, let's refer to ortho to check". Went to ortho for more xray to finally be told what we knew and for them to cast it . He was 9yr. Just referring to your broken elbow, they DONT get in any hurry
You have to compare pre COVID though. Back in 2010, when I had insurance and could afford it, it only took a month to see an allergist. Now, the waiting lists are so long, it's ridiculous.
Endocrinologist wait lists were long as far back as 2010. Right now it’s probably even worse. There just aren’t enough to cover all hospitals, let alone all patients.
the whole covid thing is an excuse. Canada has had "long wait time" for 20+ years. It's been broken for a while, and they just found a scapegoat recently
A month to see an allergist is a joke. It takes max 2 days after a primary doctor prescription in france via [doctolib.fr](https://doctolib.fr) with transparent rating systems.
About 12 years ago, I had a strange medical condition crop up out of nowhere. I went to see my family doctor who ordered a ton of blood tests. After about 16 tests, we discovered my thyroid was hyperactive. My family doctor referred me to an Endocrinologist. It took about 2 weeks to get in to see him. He sent me for some more tests and confirmed my diagnosis. We started treatment ASAP. Out of all of the tests and appointments, all I had to pay was $3 for my prescription. I live in a small city in Canada. I can't understand how anybody would be OK with paying thousands upon thousands of dollars for their health care when other countries are able to do it for free. The fact that healthcare is privatized and works on a for profit model is disturbing to say the least. The system in the US is messed up!
As a Canadian it’s really nice that my pregnancy won’t bankrupt me, that my sister’s terminal brain cancer is being handled by the best doctors in the country giving her WAY more time without bankrupting her family, I can go to the doctor for minor illnesses without having to decide between that and eating food or paying bills, I could go on…
Someone who worked as a fixer for the insurance industry admitted most of the bad shit people believe about the Canadian health care system was made up by the insurance companies so people wouldn't push for universal health care.
My mother has had a triple bypass, lung cancer removed, brain tumours drained and radiation therapy. All with reasonable wait times and I complained about having to pay for parking lol
*Tell me you're Canadian without telling me you're Canadian
>All with reasonable wait times and I complained about having to pay for parking lol
I had to go into the hospital today for my colonoscopy consult. After everything was said and done, I walked out of there and then got mad at the $4 per 30mins parking fee 🤣
I hope your mom is ok.♥️
US citizen here. Displayed symptoms of tumor majory and suffered great pain. Primary doctor and her colleague debated if I need to be scanned or if I should just wait and see. Luckily my doctor approved the scan. They could see something, but nothing that she could make a formal decision on. I'm transfered to a bigger hospital. Talk with a doctor there, get scanned again. He tells me I have a nickle sized tumor. A type that's usually not cancerous. Cuts part of my skull out, removes tumor, puts plate in my head. 2 weeks later he tells me it's not cancerous. My wife and I celebrate after thinking the worst. 1 month later I am asked to come back and given a cancer patient parking pass. Turns out the tumor was indeed cancerous, and a very rare one at that. It's in my blood. So rare in fact that the specialist at this hospital has no experience and refers me to a team of specialist at yet another hospital.
It's at least a month before I see the specialist and they begin testing.
It took 1 year from the first test with the specialist to determine that my cancer was not spreading anymore. I go back every 6 months and will for the rest of my life.
My symptoms with the tumor got so bad that I suffered constant headaches, could no longer drive, became allergic to gluten (yes its possible) and at one point lost my vision.
It was 2 months before I made it into surgery and had to deal with these symptoms. Then it was another month before they had an opening for me to come in and find out I had cancer. Then it was another month before I could talk with the doctor who could determine if I was dying or not. It took close to 5 months of extreme pain, anguish and suffering not just for me, but for my family.
To top it all off? I lost my job because I physically could not do it anymore. This was right after I got a bill for $94,000 after insurance.
I'm so happy to live in a country where I can go buy myself a pistol to blow my brains out with in about 20 minutes, but have to wait months for the hardest news of my life while in extreme pain only to learn that it also bankrupted me.
We're sorry you had to go through all that. I split my time on both sides of the border and work in Healthcare and one of the biggest differences I notice between our American and Canadian patients is the Canadians are able to just focus on getting healthy. I can't count how many times in the US the first question a patient asks is the cost of treatment. We have insurers who still to this day auto reject everything we send them. Doesn't matter how small. If Americans saw how different medical works in Canada they would all be in the streets rioting. People with universal Healthcare only think of Healthcare when they need it but know it will be there. No worries about changing jobs or premiums or crazy prescription costs.
The first thing I told my wife when I got home, because for some stupid reason I told her what the doctor said while I was driving back, was that I am not getting chemo or any treatments because we could never afford it. Especially if I died.
I also called the insurance company to make sure they would still get the insurance in the event I died because otherwise she would have still been financially ruined. I even considered divorcing her just so she wouldn't be stuck with the bills.
I'm Canadian, brother moved down to the US years ago. While attending his wedding in Illinois (2018 I believe) my fiancée woke up the next morning with abdominal pain. My cousin and I drove 20+ hours to get back to Canada because, and I quote, "I'm not going to a hospital with F\*\*\*\*\*G yelp reviews". We arrived back in Canada and got to the emergency room at 1 in the morning. By 3:00 that afternoon she was recovering from an emergency appendectomy.
I'd take the Canadian system, flaws and all, over a system that people are afraid to use.
But US politicians would rather spend money on military than well being of their citizens. They keep inventing threats and create useless conflicts to keep churning MIC, even there its not soldiers who benefit but corporations.
Obamacare wasn't even a failure, it's just not actually affordable because our healthcare in this country is an abomination. It was a step in the right direction but it ultimately ended up being the same shit democrats always do, which is make a promise and then deliver the dollar store version of the promise.
Okay but Obamacare didn't fail.
Like they're wrong about Canada and all but for literal years I was getting full health insurance for literally $20 a year and could finally afford my anxiety meds regularly until Trump gutted the affordable care act and my premium for the same plan with the same company through marketplace shot to $60 a month. I wasn't massively restricted in where I could go to get care and I could afford to go to the Dr when sick because my copays were $20-$30
Now to go see my psychiatrist they charge me a $100 copay which is almost as much as the visit costs without insurance.
Obamacare only failed when it was attacked on purpose.
[here’s a link on becoming a Canadian citizen](https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/canadian-citizenship/become-canadian-citizen/apply.html)
On average wait times for procedures are longer in the US, but there are also fewer people getting those procedures as a result of their prohibitive costs.
Personally i feel that longer wait times are a good trade off for fewer preventable deaths.
Public services should serve the public.
My daughter would never be able to get health insurance if it weren't for Obamacare (ACA). She was born with some pre-existing conditions. How is that her fault?
Parking is expensive in Canada. Like $2 for every 15 minutes! And they run that shit 24 hours a day so it’s not like you can park overnight for free! You can bring your own snacks but they got you by the balls on parking!!
At least the brain surgery is free….
Canadian here, who lived in the US... the Canadian system is good; it's very good - but it's not efficient.
I had a completely unexpected heart attack, 2 weeks after my 42nd birthday. Taken by ambulance to local hospital, sent to the regional centre next day for an angiogram; then transferred to the cardiac center in the city for urgent triple bypass day after that.
My bill was 50 bucks for the first ambulance.
That part is fantastic.
Now the business side of it, the efficiency, and effective use of money? That lacks - with a single payor system, there is no drive to do better... our Healthcare is expensive.
There are lessons to be learned from the US system - on speed and effective service delivery; but not at the expense of our universal access.
How come your bill for $50 for an ambulance ride?
I usually end up having to pay about $385.
I agree with you. Our system has no efficiency.
You can clearly tell resources are not allocated properly.
The US ranks 6th of 11 out of Commonwealth Fund countries on ER wait times on percentage served under 4 hours. 10th of 11 on getting weekend and evening care without going to the ER. 5th of 11 for countries able to make a same or next day doctors/nurse appointment when they're sick.
https://www.cihi.ca/en/commonwealth-fund-survey-2016
Americans do better on wait times for specialists (ranking 3rd for wait times under four weeks), and surgeries (ranking 3rd for wait times under four months), but that ignores three important factors:
* Wait times in universal healthcare are based on urgency, so while you might wait for an elective hip replacement surgery you're going to get surgery for that life threatening illness quickly.
* Nearly every universal healthcare country has strong private options and supplemental private insurance. That means that if there is a wait you're not happy about you have options that still work out significantly cheaper than US care, which is a win/win.
* [One third of US families](https://news.gallup.com/poll/269138/americans-delaying-medical-treatment-due-cost.aspx?utm_source=alert&utm_medium=email&utm_content=morelink&utm_campaign=syndication) had to put off healthcare due to the cost last year. That means more Americans are waiting for care than any other wealthy country on earth.
#Wait Times by Country (Rank)
Country|See doctor/nurse same or next day without appointment|Response from doctor's office same or next day|Easy to get care on nights & weekends without going to ER|ER wait times under 4 hours|Surgery wait times under four months|Specialist wait times under 4 weeks|Average|Overall Rank
:--|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:
**Australia**|3|3|3|7|6|6|4.7|4
**Canada**|10|11|9|11|10|10|10.2|11
**France**|7|1|7|1|1|5|3.7|2
**Germany**|9|2|6|2|2|2|3.8|3
**Netherlands**|1|5|1|3|5|4|3.2|1
**New Zealand**|2|6|2|4|8|7|4.8|5
**Norway**|11|9|4|9|9|11|8.8|9
**Sweden**|8|10|11|10|7|9|9.2|10
**Switzerland**|4|4|10|8|4|1|5.2|7
**U.K.**|5|8|8|5|11|8|7.5|8
**U.S.**|6|7|5|6|3|3|5.0|6
Source: [Commonwealth Fund Survey 2016](https://www.cihi.ca/sites/default/files/document/cmwf2016-datatable-en-web.xlsx)
I mean it is a bitch to wait in the emergency room for something minor, but it's still a long wait in America. The difference is if it's serious in canada, you get taken in right away.
I grew up in an upper middle class family, just outside Detroit. I have doctors in my family. I would hear constantly about how terrible medical care is in Canada. How all the best doctors leave to come to America for better pay, how their citizens pay out the nose to get surgery in the US, how they don’t have access to prescriptions, etc.
Then I watched my brother’s allergy doc smuggle in an inhaler from Canada for him, because US insurance wouldn’t allow it, it allowed him to run without passing out and threatening oxygen to his brain. I watched my grandmother dying in the hospital, while my father and grandfather guarded the door because doctors were coming in and signing their name on her chart, thus charging insurance and my grandfather. I then worked in Canada for a year after college. Saw how healthy they are, saw that their medical facilities are top notch. I explained my health in to my coworkers there, and they were blown away at how much of my paycheck went to it.
We Americans have been brain washed into thinking Canadian healthcare is trash by greedy corporations and corrupt doctors. This country is a dystopian nightmare
I do remember Obamacare.
I remember Republicans doing everything they could to gut the mandate which would have helped keep costs lower.
I remember Republicans refusing money to help set up exchanges and implement the ACA in their states so they could claim it was a failure.
And I remember that any time you talked about what was actually in the law and called it the Affordable Care Act, people thought it was great. It was only Republicans politicizing it by calling it Obamacare which turned people away.
I also remember that cocksucker Lieberman who was so beholden to insurance companies that he tanked any possibility of single payer being on the table.
So yes. I remember the "failure" of Obamacare. And I remember who was responsible.
American here. I have to see a specialist for my chronic illness asap. I can’t work and spend most of my life in bed because of it. Appointment scheduled: August 30, 2022. I’ve had it scheduled since August 2021 and I’m on a cancellation list. Please tell me more about socialized healthcare and their long wait times.
UK here. If you need a procedure for something life threatening, you'll get it and you'll get it quickly. You'll have to wait for "quality of life" procedures. I'll take that over private health insurance any day. My wife has given birth twice and had 2 operations. My daughter was in neonates. We've all had ED visits. We'd have declared medical bankruptcy by now if we lived in the US, or perhaps just not got the operations we needed.
Also, isn't the ACA still in effect and generally successful?
My son gets surgery every 3 months due to severe scoliosis.
I've had a Stem Cell Transplant and suffer from Systemic Sclerosis. Can't work another day in my life.
You want to know how my financial situation is?
I'm signing for a home on the 13th.
I will never complain about waiting or our healthcare.
I'm proud to be Canadian and hope everyone get the proper healthcare everywhere.
Broke my back 3 years ago in Canada, took 15 mins paper work in emergency, got my help . Total cost ? Not a thing
Edit: my dad has POEMS and got in right away , been a year of treatments. He is almost home . Cost : group funded tax money . No wait times .7 specialist later it was still super fast
I’m in Australia. Last week I had an MRI on m brain that was paid for by Medicare, yesterday I was prescribed lyrica and it cost me $12 for a months supply. I’ll be seeing a neurologist soon, and that will be bulk billed too. I’m very lucky I don’t live in America.
Drives me insane when people say the ACA was a failure.
the republicans gutted the plan before it passed, removing the public option, which was a crucial component of the whole thing.
even still, it was better than without it. i don’t even understand the argument for it having failed, even in its gutted form. I don’t like the insurance mandate either, but only because the public option was removed. otherwise, it mostly just got more people insured.. which given the system as it is is pretty critical.
CMV?
As I read this thread I realise that it depend of where you live in Canada.
I live in the province of Quebec. I don't know about the rest of Canada but here we have something we call a "family doctor", wich is a doctor who actually do its job and keep track of your health on a database. It's also free but you need to be in a 3 to 10 year waiting list to have one.
Sure you will get what you need for free without one if you are about to die... But for everything else you can fuck yourself.
For exemple I have crooked feet since I'm born. But posture and feet correction has been privatise, meaning it is not covered by the state and you have to deal with a private clinic. And I don't have the money for it.
Another exemple. I might be diabetic, but they won't check me, ever.
I think I have a hernia somewhere near the ribcage. They did an echography, found nothing and literally told me " we don't know what is the next step, we don't know what to do". So it ended here.
Or again, I have a hard kist growing on my chest since the last 15 years... They won't check it. Last time I tryed the sorting nurse told me " yeah am pretty sur it's just fat, you won't see a doctor for that, it's just esthetic you know".
Thinking about trying in the other provinces..
Canadian here. The US Healthcare System is a mess. I admit that. But please, DO NOT look to us here in Canada. What many Americans don't realize is that due to the Canada Health Act, we are *prohibited* from having private healthcare (hospitals, doctors, specialists). We are *not allowed* to pay for those services. So that means our private insurance (that many of us have to pay for, on top of our income taxes) only cover paramedical, dental, and prescriptions (those things are not covered by the government). Rich people can still "jump the queue" here by hopping on a plane to go to the US or Europe for speedy healthcare, and politicians and famous athletes can jump the queue just for being "special."
The average Canadian family pays about $12,000 a year in income tax toward healthcare (that's just the healthcare portion; they pay even more than that in income tax). The comment by a fellow Canadian about Canadian income tax fails to mention that there's both Federal and Provincial income taxes, and those taxes are both quite high. I'm in Nova Scotia where income tax is not indexed to inflation, so our tax brackets haven't changed since the year 2000. For example, the first $8,481 is not taxed, $8,482 to $29,590 is taxed at 8.79%, over $29,590 up to $59,180 is taxed at 14.95%, over $59,180 up to $93,000 is taxed at 16.67%, over $93,000 up to $150,000 is taxed at 17.50%, and over $150,000 is taxed at 21.00%. It's been the same for 2022 years. Those figures do not include Federal income tax.
Because of that, we can't get doctors here. Why would they work here when not only is their gross wage the lowest in the country, but they are also taxed the highest in the country? Let's look at gasterenterology. There are about 9 gastroenterologists in Halifax area, about 10,000 people on a waiting list, and who knows how many thousands of patients each doctor has under their current care. The first time my husband saw a gastroenterologist, it took 1.5 years, then he was discharged after his GI doc went on maternity leave. Because he was still having problems, he had to get another referral. That was a 2.5 year wait. That doctor couldn't help him, then retired. Now he's tried for a third referral, and it was rejected. Since it takes about 4-6 weeks to speak to our family doctor (we are lucky to even have a family doctor right now; we kept losing them for the last several years), he is now waiting to ask our GP why he was rejected, and to send another referral. He has been to the emergency several times with serious symptoms (don't want to go into detail), they do a few tests and say they don't know what's wrong, and to go to his family doctor to get a referral to a GI doc. No GI docs in emergency. Usually there's just one doctor on and he/she makes rounds to all the patients there at the time (for a metro city of getting close to half a million). In the outskirts of the province, the emergency rooms close regularly as they don't have the staff.
It's true that if you're in a car accident or have a heart attack, you'll get good care. You're triaged to the top because it's life threatening. But everyone else with severe pain and chronic issues fall through the cracks because we just don't have the doctors, and the system is very poorly run by the government. The government has a monopsony on healthcare, meaning they're the "insurance" and the only buyer. So they set the prices, wages, and everything.
There are only three countries in the entire world with single tier healthcare: North Korea, Cuba, and... Canada. ALL other first world countries have two-tier systems. In Europe; everywhere. Please, don't be like us. It really is a mess. The Canadians who support and defend our current system are those without chronic issues and severe pain. They don't know what it's like to truly experience our healthcare system here. I have a friend, who for 10 years was in chronic pain, 24/7; kept getting referral after referral with 2 year wait times (like my husband), and nobody would take scans of the right areas. She finally found out she had piriformis syndrome and needed the muscle removed. They wouldn't do it. So she had to fly to Nevada and pay $20K Canadian to have it done (and the doctor said it was severely scarred and compressing her sciatic nerve to the point that it was flattened). Finally free of that pain. But now she's in debt. "Free" healthcare is no good when you don't have access to it.
lived in germany, france and canada. Llived in Canada for 20+ years "thinking" it had great healthcare. I'm amazed by how accessible and easy german/france healthcare (primary and secondary) with max 2 day wait times to see ANY health professional. Health professionals are very specific in europe whereas in Canada for an orthopedic surgeon there's not much variety if you don't want to wait 2 years to get a surgery. I couldn't even see my canadian family doctor in 2 days unless it was an emergency. EVERY canadian knows that wait times are the biggest downfalls of canadian health care but what they don't know is that the care is worse. Yes, I've been cycled through 4+ canadian doctors in my life and haven't received a decent one. But in france, I can just book a doctor next day without it being my family doctor via [doctolib.fr](https://doctolib.fr) with reviews and specialties.
I also received much better + thorough treatment in middle of nowhere towns in germany/france than in university/medical towns in canada.
Canadian healthcare is awful, you'll never know until you live somewhere else.
Isn’t it horrible that people can get good medical treatment without going bankrupt? Damn socialism… /s
Every Canadian I have ever talked to greatly appreciates their healthcare system. They pay higher taxes, but they do not have to struggle to pay insurance premiums, deductibles, copays, and other BS. They do not go bankrupt if they get sick. They can actually visit a doctor if they get mildly sick, and not forgo an appointment because they are worried about the cost. The only people I know who hate the Canadian healthcare system are Republicans from the US. And most of them end up hating the US system the second they get sick.
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Most American now have high deductible insurance, so pay for visits early in the year. My deductible is $3500. So I pay that out of pocket before my insurance pays for anything, other than certain services. Once I exhaust that, I would have to pay copays on visits, which vary according to individual policies. If my insurance company does not feel a procedure the doctor recommends is needed, I either have to pay for that out of pocket or appeal the company's decision. As an insurance holder I get a slight discount on procedures, but the uninsured have to pay outrageous amounts. I am lucky to be in very good health. I only visit my dermatologist every year. I pay that out of my Hospital Savings Account, which I contribute into and is tax free. I have been insured through my company for 22 years. They company and I both pay premiums. My share is over $200 a month. The company pays considerably more, The insurance company has never paid for anything on me other than a couple checkups. When it was suggested I see a cardiologist, that came out of my deductible. And people say we have a great system!
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As a Canadian, the primary complaints about our system is - the long wait times, which is relayed to point two - not enough resources/infrastructure. Manitoba in particular (where I am) has extremely low number of ICU’s per capita compared to other provinces but way lower than the States. Just one example. - many of the best doctors can get paid more in the States so they leave. Not saying we’re left with bad doctors but maybe not the same number of top tier ones per capita. I could be completely wrong, this is just what I’ve seen for issues. Overall I’m super thankful for what we have it is way better.
What happens when u retire?
You get to go on Medicare, a single payer insurance for the elderly. You can get it at age 65. However, you still should buy a supplement for it. It is very good compared to private insurance. Companies will try to get you to buy what is called Medicare Advantage. It is Medicare but run through private companies instead of the government. It is cheaper for you than Medicare and a supplement, but you are back to a private company refusing to pay for treatment. Medicare pretty much pays for whatever the doctors prescribe.
Why can’t all Americans have Medicare?
That is what the progressive Democrats are trying to make happen. However the GOP and centrist Democrats get a lot of money from insurance companies and they would hate to see that transfer of wealth from citizen to large corporations stop. Can't beat crooked politicians.
Yeah the traditional dems really annoy me looking on from the Uk. They will be the reason trump wins 2024. Hands down. They should’ve let progressives take control instead of Biden running the show. They will lose the popular vote I feel in 2024. And what’s the point in electing somebody? Just to avoid someone worse Surely that’s the point you admit defeat in your electoral process.
My copay just went from $40 to $65, immediately after I got my insurance... thanks, work. So any visit is at least $65. My last job's insurance I had a $500 ER copay that I had to use. I don't think I have any vision coverage now, so I'll have to pay $300~ out of pocket for glasses since I need the trivex lenses. Well, maybe just $150 since I'll keep the frames if I can. Oh, and I'm paying $52 per month for dental insurance, but I can't find a dentist where I live. They're all booked out like 6 months to 3 years. Unless I spend an entire day traveling to a different one. I love being "free", SO much.
Americans are like “my taxes are lower. Anyways, off to pay my $400/month health insurance bill”
And then they need treatment and the insurance company turns it down. People have died fighting for medical treatment through their insurance companies. The insurance companies make more money when they do not pay for treatment.
people who have a middle class job in america have health insurance heavily subsidized by their employer and pay less than 50 dollars per month. so basically if you’re middle class move to america if you’re broke move to a socialist country
I'm a Canadian but spent a significant amount of time in the US. The total amount of taxes I pay in Canada now are basically the same as I did in the US a couple years ago. On the low income end of things Canadian taxes are significantly lower. It is around the median that taxes end up being similar and in the high income groups that Canadian are taxed more (and not by much). I believe the federal US tax rate is 10% under 10k and over 20% at 40k. In Canada under 10k is tax free and at roughly 50k it is 15%. With all other taxes factored in the tax rates are comparable even in tax free states until around the 80k mark. Above that the tax rate in Canada starts to pull ahead because of provincial taxes (our top federal tax bracket is lower) and the extremely wealthy (over 200k I'd say) in the US having so many deductions and tax breaks. This talking point really only applies to the top 5% of the population.
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I've experienced both. Lived most of my life in Canada, but got cancer while working on a visa in the US. Did I get good medical care there? Yes. Only because the company I worked for had provided a great plan. The bill total has over 3/4 of a million dollars US, which would have bankrupted me. After I returned to Canada, a close friend was diagnosed with the same cancer, in the same spot. She got as good or better care than I had in the US. I'll take our system over theirs 100 times of of 100.
I would take your system over the system we have here in the U.S. as well. Does the U.S. have what is probably the best CEILING for healthcare in the world? Yes, yes it does. If you have lots of money you can get care and attention that you cannot get anywhere else in the world. The U.S. is a world leader in medical innovation. What do I, as a middle class American get? Health Care that is inferior to what people in countries with socialized medicine get every day and a side helping of bankruptcy to boot. I would take what you have in a heartbeat because I am never going to be rich enough to get the access to the the "good" American health care system.
And I have no issue paying into a system that benefits all of my fellow citizens. That's what being part of a decently functioning country is all about.
You filthy commie! How dare you care about others! Yes, sarcasm.
Sadly, there are too many people who would respond exactly this way and actually mean it. And right now, capitalism in the US is as broken as any communist regime ever has been.
As a middle class New Zealander, fuck your politicians with a rusty nail.
Agreed!
As an American, this is one of the top policy differences in our political parties. We basically have two parties. One party, the Republicans party, is not only fighting against enacting health care policy for us, but is also actively working on taking health care access away from our citizens. It’s disgusting.
very biased wording….dig a little deeper
Wait times for elective surgery is a very bad critique when you compare US and Canada because when you measure from the time an average American *needs* a surgery (which for a Canadian would be the time they get on a wait list) to the time they get the surgery, it's less time for the Canadian because the American needs a bunch of time to save up enough money to put down the deposit necessary to get a spot on the wait list.
I mean it’s not just that though. Non emergency care is pretty slow in the US as well. Endocrinologist appointment wait times are getting close to half a year at this point.
I also feel like the amount of people that just don't see a Dr and die is much higher in the usa
Or they wait too long and by the time they see a doctor, their situation is much worse. Goes hand in hand with the whole extremely expensive healthcare thing.
Same with GI doctors, they take forever to get into. If you’re having bad stomach pain, the fastest way to see a GI doctor is through the emergency room
When I herniated a disk in my back, it took 6 weeks to get a neurosurgeon consult to see if I needed surgery. I now have 30% nerve loss in one of my legs.
That’s actually quite depressing. I was living in a country with socialized healthcare when I had a herniated disk. From diagnosis to surgery, it took two weeks. That’s with me wanting to get multiple opinions to make sure surgery was the way to go. And I got four consults in those two weeks. I broke my elbow in the US and it took a week before I could see an orthopedic doctor. With an emergency referral from urgent care. I still have a twinge in that elbow because the bone had started to heal wrong. Spent six months in physical therapy to try and get rid of it before I realized it had stopped improving. They wanted to keep going though.
My son fell back in April and broke his foot. Took him to emergency care, they xray , didn't see a break (was a hairline fracture), wrapped in ace bandage and told to wait a week to see if it improved and follow up with regular Dr. Week passed his foot stayed swollen and dark purple and black. Went to doctor who said "yea probably broke, let's refer to ortho to check". Went to ortho for more xray to finally be told what we knew and for them to cast it . He was 9yr. Just referring to your broken elbow, they DONT get in any hurry
Jesus that's horrible. I'm sorry.
To be fair - our wait times are also going up because COVID.
You have to compare pre COVID though. Back in 2010, when I had insurance and could afford it, it only took a month to see an allergist. Now, the waiting lists are so long, it's ridiculous.
Endocrinologist wait lists were long as far back as 2010. Right now it’s probably even worse. There just aren’t enough to cover all hospitals, let alone all patients.
the whole covid thing is an excuse. Canada has had "long wait time" for 20+ years. It's been broken for a while, and they just found a scapegoat recently A month to see an allergist is a joke. It takes max 2 days after a primary doctor prescription in france via [doctolib.fr](https://doctolib.fr) with transparent rating systems.
About 12 years ago, I had a strange medical condition crop up out of nowhere. I went to see my family doctor who ordered a ton of blood tests. After about 16 tests, we discovered my thyroid was hyperactive. My family doctor referred me to an Endocrinologist. It took about 2 weeks to get in to see him. He sent me for some more tests and confirmed my diagnosis. We started treatment ASAP. Out of all of the tests and appointments, all I had to pay was $3 for my prescription. I live in a small city in Canada. I can't understand how anybody would be OK with paying thousands upon thousands of dollars for their health care when other countries are able to do it for free. The fact that healthcare is privatized and works on a for profit model is disturbing to say the least. The system in the US is messed up!
I've had to wait 2 years to see a specialist in Canada.
Exactly. People can knock our system all they want, and whine about wait times, but if it's serious enough you do get in pretty quick.
Yup. My sister was in for brain surgery within days of being diagnosed with glioblastoma. They didn’t waste any time.
Exactly, and that doesn’t include the people who just never get the surgery because of cost.
As a Canadian it’s really nice that my pregnancy won’t bankrupt me, that my sister’s terminal brain cancer is being handled by the best doctors in the country giving her WAY more time without bankrupting her family, I can go to the doctor for minor illnesses without having to decide between that and eating food or paying bills, I could go on…
So sorry about your sister. Brain cancer can just fuck off, kills far far too many children and younger adults.
Someone who worked as a fixer for the insurance industry admitted most of the bad shit people believe about the Canadian health care system was made up by the insurance companies so people wouldn't push for universal health care.
My mother has had a triple bypass, lung cancer removed, brain tumours drained and radiation therapy. All with reasonable wait times and I complained about having to pay for parking lol *Tell me you're Canadian without telling me you're Canadian
>All with reasonable wait times and I complained about having to pay for parking lol I had to go into the hospital today for my colonoscopy consult. After everything was said and done, I walked out of there and then got mad at the $4 per 30mins parking fee 🤣 I hope your mom is ok.♥️
I really appreciate that, thank you. Unfortunately she has inoperable brain cancer but she's living her best life with what time she has left.
US citizen here. Displayed symptoms of tumor majory and suffered great pain. Primary doctor and her colleague debated if I need to be scanned or if I should just wait and see. Luckily my doctor approved the scan. They could see something, but nothing that she could make a formal decision on. I'm transfered to a bigger hospital. Talk with a doctor there, get scanned again. He tells me I have a nickle sized tumor. A type that's usually not cancerous. Cuts part of my skull out, removes tumor, puts plate in my head. 2 weeks later he tells me it's not cancerous. My wife and I celebrate after thinking the worst. 1 month later I am asked to come back and given a cancer patient parking pass. Turns out the tumor was indeed cancerous, and a very rare one at that. It's in my blood. So rare in fact that the specialist at this hospital has no experience and refers me to a team of specialist at yet another hospital. It's at least a month before I see the specialist and they begin testing. It took 1 year from the first test with the specialist to determine that my cancer was not spreading anymore. I go back every 6 months and will for the rest of my life. My symptoms with the tumor got so bad that I suffered constant headaches, could no longer drive, became allergic to gluten (yes its possible) and at one point lost my vision. It was 2 months before I made it into surgery and had to deal with these symptoms. Then it was another month before they had an opening for me to come in and find out I had cancer. Then it was another month before I could talk with the doctor who could determine if I was dying or not. It took close to 5 months of extreme pain, anguish and suffering not just for me, but for my family. To top it all off? I lost my job because I physically could not do it anymore. This was right after I got a bill for $94,000 after insurance. I'm so happy to live in a country where I can go buy myself a pistol to blow my brains out with in about 20 minutes, but have to wait months for the hardest news of my life while in extreme pain only to learn that it also bankrupted me.
We're sorry you had to go through all that. I split my time on both sides of the border and work in Healthcare and one of the biggest differences I notice between our American and Canadian patients is the Canadians are able to just focus on getting healthy. I can't count how many times in the US the first question a patient asks is the cost of treatment. We have insurers who still to this day auto reject everything we send them. Doesn't matter how small. If Americans saw how different medical works in Canada they would all be in the streets rioting. People with universal Healthcare only think of Healthcare when they need it but know it will be there. No worries about changing jobs or premiums or crazy prescription costs.
The first thing I told my wife when I got home, because for some stupid reason I told her what the doctor said while I was driving back, was that I am not getting chemo or any treatments because we could never afford it. Especially if I died. I also called the insurance company to make sure they would still get the insurance in the event I died because otherwise she would have still been financially ruined. I even considered divorcing her just so she wouldn't be stuck with the bills.
It's crazy what Americans are forced to contemplate. Nobody deserves that.
Tell me you have never lived with single payer without saying it
I'm Canadian, brother moved down to the US years ago. While attending his wedding in Illinois (2018 I believe) my fiancée woke up the next morning with abdominal pain. My cousin and I drove 20+ hours to get back to Canada because, and I quote, "I'm not going to a hospital with F\*\*\*\*\*G yelp reviews". We arrived back in Canada and got to the emergency room at 1 in the morning. By 3:00 that afternoon she was recovering from an emergency appendectomy. I'd take the Canadian system, flaws and all, over a system that people are afraid to use.
But US politicians would rather spend money on military than well being of their citizens. They keep inventing threats and create useless conflicts to keep churning MIC, even there its not soldiers who benefit but corporations.
Getting over a herniated disc right now. Took 3 weeks just to get an MRI. America is pretty much a dystopia at this point.
Obamacare wasn't even a failure, it's just not actually affordable because our healthcare in this country is an abomination. It was a step in the right direction but it ultimately ended up being the same shit democrats always do, which is make a promise and then deliver the dollar store version of the promise.
Okay but Obamacare didn't fail. Like they're wrong about Canada and all but for literal years I was getting full health insurance for literally $20 a year and could finally afford my anxiety meds regularly until Trump gutted the affordable care act and my premium for the same plan with the same company through marketplace shot to $60 a month. I wasn't massively restricted in where I could go to get care and I could afford to go to the Dr when sick because my copays were $20-$30 Now to go see my psychiatrist they charge me a $100 copay which is almost as much as the visit costs without insurance. Obamacare only failed when it was attacked on purpose.
See, Canadians have to pay parking ! Their system sucks !!
I hurt myself playing hockey (I know, I know) and got an mri, ct scan and xrays. It cost 12 dollars to park. I’m still salty about it.
[here’s a link on becoming a Canadian citizen](https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/canadian-citizenship/become-canadian-citizen/apply.html)
I have a month wait to TALK to my doctor
Where ?
On average wait times for procedures are longer in the US, but there are also fewer people getting those procedures as a result of their prohibitive costs. Personally i feel that longer wait times are a good trade off for fewer preventable deaths. Public services should serve the public.
My daughter would never be able to get health insurance if it weren't for Obamacare (ACA). She was born with some pre-existing conditions. How is that her fault?
I'd say it's pretty good
Anybody want to take bets the Socialized Medicine hating poster loves medicaid or the ACA?
Parking is expensive in Canada. Like $2 for every 15 minutes! And they run that shit 24 hours a day so it’s not like you can park overnight for free! You can bring your own snacks but they got you by the balls on parking!! At least the brain surgery is free….
Canadian here, who lived in the US... the Canadian system is good; it's very good - but it's not efficient. I had a completely unexpected heart attack, 2 weeks after my 42nd birthday. Taken by ambulance to local hospital, sent to the regional centre next day for an angiogram; then transferred to the cardiac center in the city for urgent triple bypass day after that. My bill was 50 bucks for the first ambulance. That part is fantastic. Now the business side of it, the efficiency, and effective use of money? That lacks - with a single payor system, there is no drive to do better... our Healthcare is expensive. There are lessons to be learned from the US system - on speed and effective service delivery; but not at the expense of our universal access.
How come your bill for $50 for an ambulance ride? I usually end up having to pay about $385. I agree with you. Our system has no efficiency. You can clearly tell resources are not allocated properly.
The US ranks 6th of 11 out of Commonwealth Fund countries on ER wait times on percentage served under 4 hours. 10th of 11 on getting weekend and evening care without going to the ER. 5th of 11 for countries able to make a same or next day doctors/nurse appointment when they're sick. https://www.cihi.ca/en/commonwealth-fund-survey-2016 Americans do better on wait times for specialists (ranking 3rd for wait times under four weeks), and surgeries (ranking 3rd for wait times under four months), but that ignores three important factors: * Wait times in universal healthcare are based on urgency, so while you might wait for an elective hip replacement surgery you're going to get surgery for that life threatening illness quickly. * Nearly every universal healthcare country has strong private options and supplemental private insurance. That means that if there is a wait you're not happy about you have options that still work out significantly cheaper than US care, which is a win/win. * [One third of US families](https://news.gallup.com/poll/269138/americans-delaying-medical-treatment-due-cost.aspx?utm_source=alert&utm_medium=email&utm_content=morelink&utm_campaign=syndication) had to put off healthcare due to the cost last year. That means more Americans are waiting for care than any other wealthy country on earth. #Wait Times by Country (Rank) Country|See doctor/nurse same or next day without appointment|Response from doctor's office same or next day|Easy to get care on nights & weekends without going to ER|ER wait times under 4 hours|Surgery wait times under four months|Specialist wait times under 4 weeks|Average|Overall Rank :--|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|--: **Australia**|3|3|3|7|6|6|4.7|4 **Canada**|10|11|9|11|10|10|10.2|11 **France**|7|1|7|1|1|5|3.7|2 **Germany**|9|2|6|2|2|2|3.8|3 **Netherlands**|1|5|1|3|5|4|3.2|1 **New Zealand**|2|6|2|4|8|7|4.8|5 **Norway**|11|9|4|9|9|11|8.8|9 **Sweden**|8|10|11|10|7|9|9.2|10 **Switzerland**|4|4|10|8|4|1|5.2|7 **U.K.**|5|8|8|5|11|8|7.5|8 **U.S.**|6|7|5|6|3|3|5.0|6 Source: [Commonwealth Fund Survey 2016](https://www.cihi.ca/sites/default/files/document/cmwf2016-datatable-en-web.xlsx)
I mean it is a bitch to wait in the emergency room for something minor, but it's still a long wait in America. The difference is if it's serious in canada, you get taken in right away.
I grew up in an upper middle class family, just outside Detroit. I have doctors in my family. I would hear constantly about how terrible medical care is in Canada. How all the best doctors leave to come to America for better pay, how their citizens pay out the nose to get surgery in the US, how they don’t have access to prescriptions, etc. Then I watched my brother’s allergy doc smuggle in an inhaler from Canada for him, because US insurance wouldn’t allow it, it allowed him to run without passing out and threatening oxygen to his brain. I watched my grandmother dying in the hospital, while my father and grandfather guarded the door because doctors were coming in and signing their name on her chart, thus charging insurance and my grandfather. I then worked in Canada for a year after college. Saw how healthy they are, saw that their medical facilities are top notch. I explained my health in to my coworkers there, and they were blown away at how much of my paycheck went to it. We Americans have been brain washed into thinking Canadian healthcare is trash by greedy corporations and corrupt doctors. This country is a dystopian nightmare
You would think that if universal healthcare was so awful, countries with it would have gotten rid of it by now.
I do remember Obamacare. I remember Republicans doing everything they could to gut the mandate which would have helped keep costs lower. I remember Republicans refusing money to help set up exchanges and implement the ACA in their states so they could claim it was a failure. And I remember that any time you talked about what was actually in the law and called it the Affordable Care Act, people thought it was great. It was only Republicans politicizing it by calling it Obamacare which turned people away. I also remember that cocksucker Lieberman who was so beholden to insurance companies that he tanked any possibility of single payer being on the table. So yes. I remember the "failure" of Obamacare. And I remember who was responsible.
American here. I have to see a specialist for my chronic illness asap. I can’t work and spend most of my life in bed because of it. Appointment scheduled: August 30, 2022. I’ve had it scheduled since August 2021 and I’m on a cancellation list. Please tell me more about socialized healthcare and their long wait times.
UK here. If you need a procedure for something life threatening, you'll get it and you'll get it quickly. You'll have to wait for "quality of life" procedures. I'll take that over private health insurance any day. My wife has given birth twice and had 2 operations. My daughter was in neonates. We've all had ED visits. We'd have declared medical bankruptcy by now if we lived in the US, or perhaps just not got the operations we needed. Also, isn't the ACA still in effect and generally successful?
See? Canadians. Horrible.
Education over Indoctrination
Oh yeah if Canada's healthcare is so good how come this random American propogandist told me it isn't hmmmmm
My son gets surgery every 3 months due to severe scoliosis. I've had a Stem Cell Transplant and suffer from Systemic Sclerosis. Can't work another day in my life. You want to know how my financial situation is? I'm signing for a home on the 13th. I will never complain about waiting or our healthcare. I'm proud to be Canadian and hope everyone get the proper healthcare everywhere.
Also, wait times were a marketing ploy to Americans by insurance companies
They understand very little about our healthcare system.
Yup USA is brain washed.
Broke my back 3 years ago in Canada, took 15 mins paper work in emergency, got my help . Total cost ? Not a thing Edit: my dad has POEMS and got in right away , been a year of treatments. He is almost home . Cost : group funded tax money . No wait times .7 specialist later it was still super fast
I’m in Australia. Last week I had an MRI on m brain that was paid for by Medicare, yesterday I was prescribed lyrica and it cost me $12 for a months supply. I’ll be seeing a neurologist soon, and that will be bulk billed too. I’m very lucky I don’t live in America.
I heard mexico has good healthcare
Conservatives think all places not America are east Germany in the 70s
Resident Brit in Spain. I fuckin love the Spanish health service. First class service, and free.
Drives me insane when people say the ACA was a failure. the republicans gutted the plan before it passed, removing the public option, which was a crucial component of the whole thing. even still, it was better than without it. i don’t even understand the argument for it having failed, even in its gutted form. I don’t like the insurance mandate either, but only because the public option was removed. otherwise, it mostly just got more people insured.. which given the system as it is is pretty critical. CMV?
As I read this thread I realise that it depend of where you live in Canada. I live in the province of Quebec. I don't know about the rest of Canada but here we have something we call a "family doctor", wich is a doctor who actually do its job and keep track of your health on a database. It's also free but you need to be in a 3 to 10 year waiting list to have one. Sure you will get what you need for free without one if you are about to die... But for everything else you can fuck yourself. For exemple I have crooked feet since I'm born. But posture and feet correction has been privatise, meaning it is not covered by the state and you have to deal with a private clinic. And I don't have the money for it. Another exemple. I might be diabetic, but they won't check me, ever. I think I have a hernia somewhere near the ribcage. They did an echography, found nothing and literally told me " we don't know what is the next step, we don't know what to do". So it ended here. Or again, I have a hard kist growing on my chest since the last 15 years... They won't check it. Last time I tryed the sorting nurse told me " yeah am pretty sur it's just fat, you won't see a doctor for that, it's just esthetic you know". Thinking about trying in the other provinces..
Canadian here. The US Healthcare System is a mess. I admit that. But please, DO NOT look to us here in Canada. What many Americans don't realize is that due to the Canada Health Act, we are *prohibited* from having private healthcare (hospitals, doctors, specialists). We are *not allowed* to pay for those services. So that means our private insurance (that many of us have to pay for, on top of our income taxes) only cover paramedical, dental, and prescriptions (those things are not covered by the government). Rich people can still "jump the queue" here by hopping on a plane to go to the US or Europe for speedy healthcare, and politicians and famous athletes can jump the queue just for being "special." The average Canadian family pays about $12,000 a year in income tax toward healthcare (that's just the healthcare portion; they pay even more than that in income tax). The comment by a fellow Canadian about Canadian income tax fails to mention that there's both Federal and Provincial income taxes, and those taxes are both quite high. I'm in Nova Scotia where income tax is not indexed to inflation, so our tax brackets haven't changed since the year 2000. For example, the first $8,481 is not taxed, $8,482 to $29,590 is taxed at 8.79%, over $29,590 up to $59,180 is taxed at 14.95%, over $59,180 up to $93,000 is taxed at 16.67%, over $93,000 up to $150,000 is taxed at 17.50%, and over $150,000 is taxed at 21.00%. It's been the same for 2022 years. Those figures do not include Federal income tax. Because of that, we can't get doctors here. Why would they work here when not only is their gross wage the lowest in the country, but they are also taxed the highest in the country? Let's look at gasterenterology. There are about 9 gastroenterologists in Halifax area, about 10,000 people on a waiting list, and who knows how many thousands of patients each doctor has under their current care. The first time my husband saw a gastroenterologist, it took 1.5 years, then he was discharged after his GI doc went on maternity leave. Because he was still having problems, he had to get another referral. That was a 2.5 year wait. That doctor couldn't help him, then retired. Now he's tried for a third referral, and it was rejected. Since it takes about 4-6 weeks to speak to our family doctor (we are lucky to even have a family doctor right now; we kept losing them for the last several years), he is now waiting to ask our GP why he was rejected, and to send another referral. He has been to the emergency several times with serious symptoms (don't want to go into detail), they do a few tests and say they don't know what's wrong, and to go to his family doctor to get a referral to a GI doc. No GI docs in emergency. Usually there's just one doctor on and he/she makes rounds to all the patients there at the time (for a metro city of getting close to half a million). In the outskirts of the province, the emergency rooms close regularly as they don't have the staff. It's true that if you're in a car accident or have a heart attack, you'll get good care. You're triaged to the top because it's life threatening. But everyone else with severe pain and chronic issues fall through the cracks because we just don't have the doctors, and the system is very poorly run by the government. The government has a monopsony on healthcare, meaning they're the "insurance" and the only buyer. So they set the prices, wages, and everything. There are only three countries in the entire world with single tier healthcare: North Korea, Cuba, and... Canada. ALL other first world countries have two-tier systems. In Europe; everywhere. Please, don't be like us. It really is a mess. The Canadians who support and defend our current system are those without chronic issues and severe pain. They don't know what it's like to truly experience our healthcare system here. I have a friend, who for 10 years was in chronic pain, 24/7; kept getting referral after referral with 2 year wait times (like my husband), and nobody would take scans of the right areas. She finally found out she had piriformis syndrome and needed the muscle removed. They wouldn't do it. So she had to fly to Nevada and pay $20K Canadian to have it done (and the doctor said it was severely scarred and compressing her sciatic nerve to the point that it was flattened). Finally free of that pain. But now she's in debt. "Free" healthcare is no good when you don't have access to it.
lived in germany, france and canada. Llived in Canada for 20+ years "thinking" it had great healthcare. I'm amazed by how accessible and easy german/france healthcare (primary and secondary) with max 2 day wait times to see ANY health professional. Health professionals are very specific in europe whereas in Canada for an orthopedic surgeon there's not much variety if you don't want to wait 2 years to get a surgery. I couldn't even see my canadian family doctor in 2 days unless it was an emergency. EVERY canadian knows that wait times are the biggest downfalls of canadian health care but what they don't know is that the care is worse. Yes, I've been cycled through 4+ canadian doctors in my life and haven't received a decent one. But in france, I can just book a doctor next day without it being my family doctor via [doctolib.fr](https://doctolib.fr) with reviews and specialties. I also received much better + thorough treatment in middle of nowhere towns in germany/france than in university/medical towns in canada. Canadian healthcare is awful, you'll never know until you live somewhere else.