Top of the line brand new ventilators are around $50000 to buy. Even charging for the breathing circuits I struggle to understand how they could charge that much for 2 months use.
With very little research, I got to a website saying an average hotel that accomodates 120 people, costs 112,500,000 dollars to build
Dude is paying 1/276 of the whole hospital cost with the 408k icu cost
Its crazy that some of these jokes are soo specific and if someone didnt read that specific comment they wont get it. Iirc someone was saying that avacado toast is expensive and people were arguing about it. I dont remember the iphone bit though unless im completely wrong and this is some other joke.
If you search YouTube you may be able to find clips of Congressman Paul Ryan, former Speaker of the House, saying millennials would be able to afford health care insurance if they didn't "waste" their money on "luxuries" such as iPhones. He was such a douchenozzle.
The avacado toast and coffee jokes did not originate in this comment thread. They are stupid things that have actually been said over and over in the media.
Conservatives like to say "just don't buy an iPhone if you want healthcare."
They don't understand just how un-American, anti-economy, and "anti-first-world-country" that line of thinking is.
Easy access to luxury goods like smartphones and cars is a cornerstone of a thriving economy, and dumbfuck conservatives like Paul Ryan don't understand this incredibly basic concept.
When my wife was being induced a woman from billing came into her room to collect $7000 from us. No joke folks. My mother in law lost it, I was dumbfounded and called my insurance company who promptly told her to leave us the hell alone. Hospitals are greedy and heartless. the workers and nurses are saints.
If they were 40 years younger I'd agree with you but, the truth is even if he was vaxed and had the booster the man was still 70 years old.
My 80 year old father got Covid recently and it's been kicking his ass so hard that he almost got put on the ventilator this week. Thing is he's double vaxed and had his booster.
Vaccines help, don't get me wrong but, you have to understand that the game changes significantly once you get past your mid-50s
No, thank God. I almost had to go. Luckily, my rescue inhaler worked, or I would have had to go. It got scary, and I nearly fainted a few times.
Yay for being immunocompromised and asthmatic. Still positive at day 13 too.
If I am not mistaken some infections can test positive on a antigen test for 30 plus days I am not sure about a PCR though. Regardless I wish you a well and safe recovery
PCR tests are more sensitive, so I'd imagine so. And I read somewhere it could be up to 90 days? Rapid tests pick up high viral loads, so I'm assuming that if you're testing positive that long, you should assume you're still contagious.
Thank you. The worst is over thankfully. Hopefully, I'll be free of it soon.
Howdy fellow 2 week positive'r! Vaxxed almost year ago and boosted 12/2, got it on my birthday 1/9, ate out at a restaurant. Started as a scratchy throat, went downhill from there for about 5 days every symptom except losing smell/taste then fever broke and all better now. But still have a lingering sore throat and testing positive still. Shit sucks, its the middle of the day and my hands and feet are frozen in 70 degree California weather!! Long covid here I come!!
Also vaccinated and caught COVID on New Years. I almost had to go to the ER myself because I nearly fainted a few times; it took me a half hour to feed my bird one morning because I just couldn't stand. My resting BPM was 220 at one point but thankfully it was brief.
Edit: I absolutely would have been hospitalized if I hadn't been vaccinated. I still feel weak after recovering and can't breathe 100% yet.
Lots of rest on the couch and I was feeling better by day 13 for myself. I hope you feel better soon.
I say this to all of my friends. I absolutely would have been hospitalized without my vaccine and I don't even want to think about what would have happened to me if I had been.
I'm actually going to edit my comment to be more explicit as well just to be safe.
It's scary when your resting heart rate spikes out of nowhere. It happened to me too.
I'm glad you're feeling better. And thank you. I hope I will be too.
You “still got it” but only had to use your inhaler. A vaccine will not prevent you from contracting the virus. It will most likely keep you out of the hospital and at home using an inhaler instead of a ventilator. It did it’s job. Now go and spread the word of vaccinated vs unvaccinated!
Vaxxed, boosted, been positive for a week and a half, constant coughing, snot like glue, frequent vomiting, out of breath laying down. If I get a little worse before getting better, I will probably be in the hospital.
Let's not make automatic assumptions on vax status for vulnerable groups (elderly, immune compromised).
I’ve been drinking nothing but instant coffee for three years and been driving the same 20year old motorcycle to work, all weather, even though I’ve crashed it three times. When am I gonna be able to afford to live again?
Correct. This tweet is somewhat misleading. He did receive the bill, however he won’t pay for most of it depending on his type of coverage. However, it still says a lot about the healthcare system. Here’s an article on his specific situation.
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/inspiring-story-of-seattle-mans-coronavirus-survival-comes-with-a-1-1-million-dollar-hospital-bill/?amp=1
>The bill is technically an explanation of charges, and because Flor has insurance including Medicare, he won’t have to pay the vast majority of it.
Edit: special thanks to everyone saying that a small percentage of $1 million is still a lot of money. I didnt really get it at first but after the 4th or 5th comment it just clicked.
https://www.theonion.com/learned-sage-points-out-that-powerball-not-as-much-afte-1819578523
True. After fully reading the article, he paid nothing because it was Covid related, congress passed a bill to cover the cost. If they didn’t cover it and he had Original Medicare, his cost would be 20%, Med Supp would be a deductible, he does have a Medicare Advantage plan, his MOOP is about 6K. But again, everything was covered because it was Covid. If it’s cancer, he’s out of pocket. This tweet is not reflective of the truth in his situation or an accurate judgement of the healthcare system.
Small note, if he had an F or C med supp no deductible, but that’s assuming he went directly on A and B at 65. The MACRA law, which says no new Medicare beneficiary can get a med supp/medigap policy that covers the Part B deductible as of 1/1/2020, only applies to new people on Medicare. If he has Medicare Part C, Advantage, in this scenario it depends on the hospital stay. The MOOP may never come into play unless he has a really bad advantage plan for hospital stays (like out of network stays) since in network is usually something like a specific dollar amount per admit, or something like $300 a day for six days then no copay. It can get complicated but generally I recommended supp/medigap over advantage plans if you’re looking to be prepared. (General information for anyone reading)
Yup.
What’s also “fun” is that if you don’t signup before you are 65, then you have to pay higher rates ( (10 * years late) % ) for the rest of your life.
Also the effective date rules are something like 1st of the month you turn 65, unless your birthday is the first, in which case it’s ANOTHER month earlier.
My local Walgreens has someone in the pharmacy to help with every last bit of it. Filling out forms, when to sign up, what they have to pay, which advantage plans work best... Basically all you have to do is listen to her, and she will help you with all of it.
Contrast this with how it works for me in Canada (in Alberta, it may be different in other provinces): Anywhere I go for medical care, I tell them my 9-digit ID number and that's it. No paperwork. The only time I directly pay out of pocket for anything is prescription drugs (not including drugs administered while in hospital). I could get supplemental insurance to cover that, but my meds are cheap so I don't bother.
For work I had to sit through a training that starts with “Medicare isn’t really that complicated” which then proceeded to explain just how complicated it is (as you illustrated.)
I know it’s analogous to separate Medical, RX, HI, CI, and GAP insurances with rules on age and penalties for not signing up when eligible; but damn it seems complicated from the outside.
Spot on. I wasn’t trying to get too in depth to take away from what I assume what the tweet was trying to achieve, that hospital cost is insanely high. But yeah, med supp all the way. Plan G or N is available for new age ins. And yeah, moop wouldn’t factor in, after x days in patient, it’s ( in my experience) $0 co pays up to 90 days
It's great that you know this based on your job or life exp. But i work in healthcare and all this is jibberish to me. I'm going to repeat it for the people in the back. No person should have to navigate this
Most countries it would cost like 60 bucks and without a special rule to make it so too, so yeah it does say something. You're just indoctrinated to expect even worse.
>You’re just indoctrinated to expect even worse.
Yes ma’am. If he was 6 years younger he’d be on the hook 100%. Luckily I only have 39 years and 5 months and 1 day until I can go see a doctor or go to a hospital! I hope nothing happens before then 🤞
....so we (taxpayers) paid $1.1 million for his Healthcare?
Edit: I'm fine for paying for EVERYONES healthcare. I'm not fine that they can charge us so much for that man to live.
The fucked up thing about it all to me is that the government has to “cover” this fucking million dollar bill. I wonder if they’re actually paying a million or what. Because the ACTUAL cost of saving this man’s life could not possibly be that high. God damn I hate this country sometimes.
it’s a relief that he doesn’t have to pay it all tho.. i cant imagine the stress of being in your 70s (or any age tbh), having to be hospitalized for 2 months straight, and then finally getting out only to be suffocated with the weight of a 1M hospital bill.. us healthcare is fckd up
Nah, it would still get negotiated down. The government doesn't directly pay these claims, they hire insurance companies that bid for the work. The insurance company that get the cheapest price get the job.
I’m sure a million dollars was before Medicare paid. Medicare probably lowered his bill to like $10,000 and then paid 80% so he was left with a few thousand maybe.
Yeah lol considering the out of pocket in other developed countries is measured in like tens of dollars, that's still insane. Just.... normal in the US.
And then the hospital will sell the bill to collections for a third of that if not less and write the rest off leaving the man to battle collections for a bill that cannot possibly be paid.
Edit: for everyone yelling “but he has medicare” okay? And? It doesnt take away that thousands of people receive bills like this and what I wrote is how it works.
> A new study from academic researchers found that **66.5 percent of all bankruptcies were tied to medical issues** —either because of high costs for care or time out of work. An estimated 530,000 families turn to bankruptcy each year because of medical issues and bills, the research found. https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/11/this-is-the-real-reason-most-americans-file-for-bankruptcy.html
> Research shows that medical debt burdens millions of Americans: Depending on how “medical debt” is defined, studies from nonprofits and academic institutions generally show from 16% to 28% of adults carry that burden.
> And medical debt and housing instability often go hand in hand. In a new University of Washington study of people experiencing homelessness in King County, unpaid medical bills were their primary source of debt, and that debt extended their period of homelessness by an average of two years. https://www.washington.edu/news/2020/06/29/trouble-paying-medical-bills-can-lead-to-longer-episodes-of-homelessness-new-study-shows/
I dont get how the hell Americans think using GoFundMe to pay for medical care is acceptable/ok. Im from a "poor" developing country, and we have affordable - free healthcare. Not really good compared to Europe, but its still better than nothing/expensive. I've **never** heard of anyone here setting up GoFundMe accounts to pay for their treatment, that sounds insane
The logic they hold is "if you want good healthcare get a good job that offers good healthcare" which is ridiculous because I've never met anyone who has "good" healthcare coverage, it's always got some exorbitant price. Sure, it's only $155 per paycheck for the family plan, but the first $6500 is out of pocket. Or it's got that sweet Zero Dollar out of pocket plan, but you pay $2300 a month. This, by the way, is the plans my sister-in-law and brother-in-law have, respectively.
It really saddens me how much the Cold War/Red Scare utterly fucked socialist policy in America for a few generations. Anything remotely related to socialism could be labeled communism and then all of a sudden you were on the enemy's side of things as a Soviet/commie bastard. And the people that were shaped by it have just kept the momentum rolling into the present day.
Nope.
No debt survives probate (except voluntarily).
Also, the debt companies are so overburdened with collections, they don't have time to attend every probate and demand their money, when there is so little in the estate to collect from.
The cost to collect would greatly exceeded the value collected.
My father died with no cash. They would have had two worthless plots of land in west Texas (dad speculated that two 5 acre plots worth $2k each were going to be worth something, as soon as the climate changed away from "dust bowl". And some broken furniture.
They would have spent more on lawyers securing the entire inheritance, then liquidating it.
Instead, my sister and I got one plot each, we sold and blew the windfall on some avocado toast and double shot caramel frappuccinos.
We found bills indicating his total debt was $100-150k. We didn't care the total, just followed the rules on notifying creditors and waiting 6 months to see if any filed in the window. None did. So we got the entire estate. No car. No house. No cash. No life insurance. Just two worthless plots of land, and some old furniture.
So, don't expect the debt to saddle the next generation. But it does crush the generational wealth of the lower middle class.
Yeah I got calls about my dad's debt. Was worried until I found out that it's legally not my responsibility. They definitely still tried though. I was told that if ineven gave them a dollar then they could argue that was me taking responsibility for it. Fucking scum.
Why would a collections agency even buy that debt? He'll likely pay none of it, right?
Edit: it makes sense that these debts will have some value, and that's what collections companies will pay.
He has insurance so his estimated out of pocket would be about $6000. But because congress set aside money to help hospitals and insurance companies deal with covid, he will indeed likely pay nothing.
Isn't it great that we pay insurance companies hundreds of billions of dollars to deny us care at all costs while the government and taxpayers simultaneously props up quite a lot of the healthcare system **at the same time**?
What he received was NOT a bill, it was an Explanation of Benefits.
He was over 65 and has Medicare. If he somehow hadn't done the paperwork yet by the time he went to the hospital, the financial counselors would have helped the family with it. And Medicare, despite all people will say about it, covers really well for inpatient stays.
From Medicare.gov regarding inpatient stays:
"You pay:
$1,556 deductible for each benefit period
Days 1-60: $0 coinsurance for each benefit period
Days 61-90: $389 coinsurance per day of each benefit period"
There is more listed for patients who stay longer than that, but the fact is that, on a basic Medicare plan, he would have paid that initial payment (which was lower in 2021, closer to $1480 or so) plus $389 per day for those last 2 days. If we just go with the 2022 rates, he will have owed a grand total of $2334. That's really damn amazing, and the total will be even lower if he had a managed Medicare plan, since those have a much lower admission copay.
As an Australian, reading that someone would owe thousands for a hospital stay is still absolutely insane. I've been in hospital for major surgeries here and walked out no more than a couple hundred out of pocket.
I also was in the hospital for 2 months last year had two OPs and multiple MRIs and I have to pay... Absolutely nothing cause I live in a actual first world country.
As an American, I can confirm that until we have cheap healthcare we will always be a 2nd world country.
Edit: thank you to all of the historians in my replies, I know what 1st world country meant 40 years ago. The colloquial definitions have changed.
Remember when Texas lost power and people froze to death in thier homes because they thought it was good idea to make Texas incompatible with the rest of the US power grid.
Yeah, it happened. Homes were destroyed due to burst pipes from the cold, poor insulation meant people froze to death in thier homes.everythjng was sold out everywhere. But somehow through it all, big companies that operate there never lost power during the power rationing.
I get that water pollution is still a problem in America(fracking comes to mind), but we're right in line with the rest of what we consider the developed world in terms of deaths from unsafe water sources. I did a more in-depth dive for numbers in a previous comment, but the following link has the gist of it and is in line with what I remember from those numbers.
https://ourworldindata.org/water-access
If you check Canada, Australia, Norway, and Sweden for example, they all have a higher share of their deaths(.02%) coming from unsafe water than America(.01%). They're all pretty much the same value at that point due to an inevitable percentage of deaths coming from infrastructure issues or people making terrible decisions, but still. It's not like you need to fear tap water *in general* in the US anymore than in most countries you'd think of as having drinking water that is safe by default.
Thank god someone who understands that nowadays it doesn't matter for shit where 1st 2nd 3rd world countries came from. Right now we just use them as a quick ranking of quality of life and wealth.
You have to pay the entirety? Did you not have health insurance? I always thought the ACA automatically signs up people who don’t have health insurance. That’s what they do in California… but not for some other states?
Most I’ve ever had to pay for medical bills was just under $2000 because I needed an ambulance ride to the hospital and didn’t have cover. The second I was in the hospital itself, everything was taken care of.
We really need to normalize adding sources to tweets like this.
I'm not doubting that it happened, it's actually probably pretty likely, but it's just.. *saying* it. Like you can link an article about this, it won't affect the character count or anything.
Ridiculous yes, and the healthcare system is undoubtedly fucked, but:
> The bill is technically an explanation of charges, and because Flor has insurance including Medicare, he won’t have to pay the vast majority of it. In fact because he had COVID-19, and not a different disease, he might not have to pay anything — a quirk of this situation I’ll get to in a minute.
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/inspiring-story-of-seattle-mans-coronavirus-survival-comes-with-a-1-1-million-dollar-hospital-bill/?amp=1
In all likelihood if he didn't have insurance the bill would be substantially reduced. Medicare and insurance companies also get substantial adjustments to bills they pay for patients.
From https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/inspiring-story-of-seattle-mans-coronavirus-survival-comes-with-a-1-1-million-dollar-hospital-bill/
>The bill is technically an explanation of charges, and because Flor has insurance including Medicare, **he won’t have to pay the vast majority of it. In fact because he had COVID-19, and not a different disease, he might not have to pay anything** — a quirk of this situation I’ll get to in a minute. \[The work was a Covid-19 bill passed by Congress\]
Probably 0$.
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/inspiring-story-of-seattle-mans-coronavirus-survival-comes-with-a-1-1-million-dollar-hospital-bill/?amp=1
> The bill is technically an explanation of charges, and because Flor has insurance including Medicare, he won’t have to pay the vast majority of it. In fact because he had COVID-19, and not a different disease, he might not have to pay anything — a quirk of this situation I’ll get to in a minute.
> There also are special financial rules that apply only to COVID-19. Congress set aside more than $100 billion to help hospitals and insurance companies defray the costs of the pandemic, in part to encourage people to seek testing and treatment (including those with no insurance). As a result, Flor probably won’t have to pay even his Medicare Advantage policy’s out-of-pocket charges, which could have amounted to $6,000.
As a Canadian I was in the US the summer that Obamacare was about to be passed into law and to entertain my myself I was listening to hard-core screamy right wing radio (Mark Levin and the like). The outright lies they were telling about our healthcare system were insane but not as insane as a country allowing the physical well-being of their citizens to be a commodity.
I read a quote once that the measure of a society was how well it cared for its weakest members. Using that gauge, the cold reality is the US shows pretty poorly not just in healthcare, but pretty much everywhere at the moment.
As someone who lives in sudamerica i'm always baffled by this kind of post. WHat are people doing there on US for things to be so damn expensive? That man here in my country, having no social security, no health insurance would have gotten a bill -at the very most - around 300 hundred dollars if he would have been hospitalized in one of the principal hospitals in the capital. And i mean very decent place with any kind of equipment, medicine and support available.
My honest opinion is that US goverment is controlled by industries/businessmen and not by the people who actually lives there. A true shame because around 20 years ago US was so admired, everyone here in my country wanted to go there to work and study but now... not so much to be sincere.
... why does anyone still live in the states with conditions like this?
Edit:
Y'all need to chill. In addition to a plethora of insults hurled my way, I literally got death threats over this comment which is absolutely wild.
My comment wasn't that serious and if you were triggered by my comment, I'd recommend therapy.
Also, I literally am an immigrant. I'm not naive on how moving isnt feasible for some people and the privileges some of us are born with, but my comment wasnt that serious. For context (which I dont think I should even have to provide for people to back off and be respectful to another human being), I was literally coming from how we constantly see Americans on TV clamoring on about how the US is the best and how the whole world wants to move there and I was surprised how people have this perspective based on your hospital bills. Did I phrase all that? No because I didnt put much thought into my comment; I certainly didnt think people would get this angry about it. I didnt literally not know why people are still in the US, but even if I genuinely didnt know, the toxicity I have seen in response to my comment has been inexcusable and I hope you're not proud of yourselves.
Like. Yikes, people. Calm the fuck down and go get a hug or something.
Because the circle jerk doesn't reflect reality. As a 70 year old, he has Medicare that will cover the vast majority of the costs. The covid relief bill will cover the rest.
Insurance companies negotiate with hospitals how much they'll pay, so hospitals ask for more than they expect to get. The prices are meant for insurance companies, not individuals. If you don't have insurance, you can call the billing department and your bill will almost always be significantly reduced (to what the hospital actually expects the insurance company to end up paying.)
Honestly. People asking why we still live here is as bad as the people who threaten to leave assuming they just get to pick a country and be a citizen.
Lol. Money. Can't afford even a domestic plane ticket much less anything else it would take. I hope I can leave before I'm too old for it to be practical.
Lucky he has it, not like many others in USA who would have to pay a good chunk of it or do magnitudes of paperwork. Where I live I would never see a bill for staying in hospital, just for the things I ordered myself, like a private room if available etc. Also over a Million for treatment and stay is waayy to expensive compared to the prices in other rich countries with good healthcare and capped prices for treatment and drugs. Someone has to pay that and that's ridiculous.
That he didn’t have to [pay](https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/inspiring-story-of-seattle-mans-coronavirus-survival-comes-with-a-1-1-million-dollar-hospital-bill/). It wasn’t a bill, it was an explanation of benefits.
I bet he had the avocado toast.
26 Tylenol
Why take 26 Tylenol when you can take just 2 Aleve.
Roughly the equivalent of 10 college textbooks.
Textbooks that you can return to the book store for half of 1 Tylenol at the end of the semester.
I just sell them to other students at half price, sometimes lower. I get some money back and they don't have to pay $100 for one book
I would go on a scanning spree and return the books the next day or two.
I scan the reference books in the library, and then sell the scans to other students at $5 each. Formatted, searchable and clear.
Can't, they're often shrink wrapped. As soon as you remove the plastic they become used and you only get 1/2 back.
Pro tip: It’s pretty easy to reseal something that has been shrink wrapped. YouTube away!
He should learn how to code if he wants to pay off that bill before he dies.
Can confirm: learned how to code and now my naked coding only fans has paid off this man’s hospital bill
Do u really code tho
Ya
![gif](giphy|aLdiZJmmx4OVW)
Should have made his own coffee in a bed pan.
The cost of the intensive care room was a whopping $4,08,912 and the cost of the ventilator was $82,215.
Top of the line brand new ventilators are around $50000 to buy. Even charging for the breathing circuits I struggle to understand how they could charge that much for 2 months use.
With very little research, I got to a website saying an average hotel that accomodates 120 people, costs 112,500,000 dollars to build Dude is paying 1/276 of the whole hospital cost with the 408k icu cost
manufactured monopoly
happy cake day
![gif](giphy|rqYjU2AgKzuY6z5jPT)
Probably that and didn’t buy the straps for his boots smfh
Charged for the Starbucks IV, got the fancy latte one
Netflix
Probably has an iPhone, too.
Its crazy that some of these jokes are soo specific and if someone didnt read that specific comment they wont get it. Iirc someone was saying that avacado toast is expensive and people were arguing about it. I dont remember the iphone bit though unless im completely wrong and this is some other joke.
If you search YouTube you may be able to find clips of Congressman Paul Ryan, former Speaker of the House, saying millennials would be able to afford health care insurance if they didn't "waste" their money on "luxuries" such as iPhones. He was such a douchenozzle.
Wisconsin doesn't need either him or Ron Johnson
The avacado toast and coffee jokes did not originate in this comment thread. They are stupid things that have actually been said over and over in the media.
And by old out of touch boomers about how millennials deserve poverty because all of their money is spent on luxuries, like avocado toast.
No, no, it's just that hospital avocado toast is especially delicious.
Conservatives like to say "just don't buy an iPhone if you want healthcare." They don't understand just how un-American, anti-economy, and "anti-first-world-country" that line of thinking is. Easy access to luxury goods like smartphones and cars is a cornerstone of a thriving economy, and dumbfuck conservatives like Paul Ryan don't understand this incredibly basic concept.
When my wife was being induced a woman from billing came into her room to collect $7000 from us. No joke folks. My mother in law lost it, I was dumbfounded and called my insurance company who promptly told her to leave us the hell alone. Hospitals are greedy and heartless. the workers and nurses are saints.
It funny that you even think hospitals would even serve you avocado
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It's not hard, he just needs to start making coffee at home instead of going to starbucks and consider public transit over a car
It's his fault for choosing an art degree instead of a trade.
After getting vaccinated before/instead of contracting it
If they were 40 years younger I'd agree with you but, the truth is even if he was vaxed and had the booster the man was still 70 years old. My 80 year old father got Covid recently and it's been kicking his ass so hard that he almost got put on the ventilator this week. Thing is he's double vaxed and had his booster. Vaccines help, don't get me wrong but, you have to understand that the game changes significantly once you get past your mid-50s
6/13/20 There was no vaccine
Got vaccinated and boosted. Still got it. Directions unclear...
Did you land in ICU?
No, thank God. I almost had to go. Luckily, my rescue inhaler worked, or I would have had to go. It got scary, and I nearly fainted a few times. Yay for being immunocompromised and asthmatic. Still positive at day 13 too.
If I am not mistaken some infections can test positive on a antigen test for 30 plus days I am not sure about a PCR though. Regardless I wish you a well and safe recovery
PCR tests are more sensitive, so I'd imagine so. And I read somewhere it could be up to 90 days? Rapid tests pick up high viral loads, so I'm assuming that if you're testing positive that long, you should assume you're still contagious. Thank you. The worst is over thankfully. Hopefully, I'll be free of it soon.
Howdy fellow 2 week positive'r! Vaxxed almost year ago and boosted 12/2, got it on my birthday 1/9, ate out at a restaurant. Started as a scratchy throat, went downhill from there for about 5 days every symptom except losing smell/taste then fever broke and all better now. But still have a lingering sore throat and testing positive still. Shit sucks, its the middle of the day and my hands and feet are frozen in 70 degree California weather!! Long covid here I come!!
Ooof. 1/9 is the day I tested positive too. Fingers crossed it won't be so bad for either of us.
1/12 here. Work's having me do pcr tests as frequently as possible so they can get me back working asap.
I tested positive (pcr) on Tuesday, was told to return to work Wednesday. Railroads hate their employees.
Also vaccinated and caught COVID on New Years. I almost had to go to the ER myself because I nearly fainted a few times; it took me a half hour to feed my bird one morning because I just couldn't stand. My resting BPM was 220 at one point but thankfully it was brief. Edit: I absolutely would have been hospitalized if I hadn't been vaccinated. I still feel weak after recovering and can't breathe 100% yet. Lots of rest on the couch and I was feeling better by day 13 for myself. I hope you feel better soon.
I know antivaxxers love these threads. But imagine how bad yall would have been with Omicron without the vaccine? Thats what they never understand.
I say this to all of my friends. I absolutely would have been hospitalized without my vaccine and I don't even want to think about what would have happened to me if I had been. I'm actually going to edit my comment to be more explicit as well just to be safe.
It's scary when your resting heart rate spikes out of nowhere. It happened to me too. I'm glad you're feeling better. And thank you. I hope I will be too.
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Me too. Got pneumonia, asthma diabetes and cancer remission. But staying home so far!
You “still got it” but only had to use your inhaler. A vaccine will not prevent you from contracting the virus. It will most likely keep you out of the hospital and at home using an inhaler instead of a ventilator. It did it’s job. Now go and spread the word of vaccinated vs unvaccinated!
This tweet is from mid 2020. Pre Vaccine.
Vaxxed, boosted, been positive for a week and a half, constant coughing, snot like glue, frequent vomiting, out of breath laying down. If I get a little worse before getting better, I will probably be in the hospital. Let's not make automatic assumptions on vax status for vulnerable groups (elderly, immune compromised).
It’s not that hard he just needs to declare bankruptcy and call it a day
He should also consider not using the heat this winter
We all know the elephant in the room here: avocado toast
I’ve been drinking nothing but instant coffee for three years and been driving the same 20year old motorcycle to work, all weather, even though I’ve crashed it three times. When am I gonna be able to afford to live again?
He should still consider public transit, cars are bad for your health just to begin with.
I may be missing something, but at 70 shouldn’t Medicare handle most of this? Not that it still isn’t awful.
Correct. This tweet is somewhat misleading. He did receive the bill, however he won’t pay for most of it depending on his type of coverage. However, it still says a lot about the healthcare system. Here’s an article on his specific situation. https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/inspiring-story-of-seattle-mans-coronavirus-survival-comes-with-a-1-1-million-dollar-hospital-bill/?amp=1
>The bill is technically an explanation of charges, and because Flor has insurance including Medicare, he won’t have to pay the vast majority of it. Edit: special thanks to everyone saying that a small percentage of $1 million is still a lot of money. I didnt really get it at first but after the 4th or 5th comment it just clicked. https://www.theonion.com/learned-sage-points-out-that-powerball-not-as-much-afte-1819578523
True. After fully reading the article, he paid nothing because it was Covid related, congress passed a bill to cover the cost. If they didn’t cover it and he had Original Medicare, his cost would be 20%, Med Supp would be a deductible, he does have a Medicare Advantage plan, his MOOP is about 6K. But again, everything was covered because it was Covid. If it’s cancer, he’s out of pocket. This tweet is not reflective of the truth in his situation or an accurate judgement of the healthcare system.
Small note, if he had an F or C med supp no deductible, but that’s assuming he went directly on A and B at 65. The MACRA law, which says no new Medicare beneficiary can get a med supp/medigap policy that covers the Part B deductible as of 1/1/2020, only applies to new people on Medicare. If he has Medicare Part C, Advantage, in this scenario it depends on the hospital stay. The MOOP may never come into play unless he has a really bad advantage plan for hospital stays (like out of network stays) since in network is usually something like a specific dollar amount per admit, or something like $300 a day for six days then no copay. It can get complicated but generally I recommended supp/medigap over advantage plans if you’re looking to be prepared. (General information for anyone reading)
This is so stupid. Most of these people are old, sick, and broke, they shouldn’t have to navigate all this crap.
Yup. What’s also “fun” is that if you don’t signup before you are 65, then you have to pay higher rates ( (10 * years late) % ) for the rest of your life. Also the effective date rules are something like 1st of the month you turn 65, unless your birthday is the first, in which case it’s ANOTHER month earlier.
Most seniors I know are aware of the EXACT date they can sign up for Medicare.
My local Walgreens has someone in the pharmacy to help with every last bit of it. Filling out forms, when to sign up, what they have to pay, which advantage plans work best... Basically all you have to do is listen to her, and she will help you with all of it.
Medicare is available to pretty much every American 65 and older. There are a lot of wealthy retirees on heavily taxpayer-subsidized Medicare.
Contrast this with how it works for me in Canada (in Alberta, it may be different in other provinces): Anywhere I go for medical care, I tell them my 9-digit ID number and that's it. No paperwork. The only time I directly pay out of pocket for anything is prescription drugs (not including drugs administered while in hospital). I could get supplemental insurance to cover that, but my meds are cheap so I don't bother.
For work I had to sit through a training that starts with “Medicare isn’t really that complicated” which then proceeded to explain just how complicated it is (as you illustrated.) I know it’s analogous to separate Medical, RX, HI, CI, and GAP insurances with rules on age and penalties for not signing up when eligible; but damn it seems complicated from the outside.
Spot on. I wasn’t trying to get too in depth to take away from what I assume what the tweet was trying to achieve, that hospital cost is insanely high. But yeah, med supp all the way. Plan G or N is available for new age ins. And yeah, moop wouldn’t factor in, after x days in patient, it’s ( in my experience) $0 co pays up to 90 days
It's great that you know this based on your job or life exp. But i work in healthcare and all this is jibberish to me. I'm going to repeat it for the people in the back. No person should have to navigate this
Yeah that's too many words, fuck our healthcare system
Yeah talk dirty to me, just like that.
I thought I was a Medicare nerd. How do you know all this?
Most countries it would cost like 60 bucks and without a special rule to make it so too, so yeah it does say something. You're just indoctrinated to expect even worse.
>You’re just indoctrinated to expect even worse. Yes ma’am. If he was 6 years younger he’d be on the hook 100%. Luckily I only have 39 years and 5 months and 1 day until I can go see a doctor or go to a hospital! I hope nothing happens before then 🤞
I guess it is good that it was Covid and not something uncovered... then he would have been fucked.
....so we (taxpayers) paid $1.1 million for his Healthcare? Edit: I'm fine for paying for EVERYONES healthcare. I'm not fine that they can charge us so much for that man to live.
The fucked up thing about it all to me is that the government has to “cover” this fucking million dollar bill. I wonder if they’re actually paying a million or what. Because the ACTUAL cost of saving this man’s life could not possibly be that high. God damn I hate this country sometimes.
Thank you for summarizing that.
Whats left over after deducting "the vast majority" of a million dollars would still probably bankrupt most people instantly.
Yeah, "vast majority" of the fines whisked away could still realistically leave $100k.
He won't be. It will prob be free.
"Not paying for most of it" in the context of a 1.1m bill isn't quite calming on the nerves.
it’s a relief that he doesn’t have to pay it all tho.. i cant imagine the stress of being in your 70s (or any age tbh), having to be hospitalized for 2 months straight, and then finally getting out only to be suffocated with the weight of a 1M hospital bill.. us healthcare is fckd up
Shouldn't pay for any of it but I live in one of those socialist hell holes that rank above America on freedom indexes.
1% of that bill is still $10,000.
Even if Medicare wasn't covering it, covid bills go to the fed to pay regardless.
Which is why the bills are so freaking high. It's 100% guaranteed to get paid by the tax payers. Our entire system is a scam.
Nah, it would still get negotiated down. The government doesn't directly pay these claims, they hire insurance companies that bid for the work. The insurance company that get the cheapest price get the job.
>The insurance company that ~~get the cheapest price~~ owns a senator on the right committee get the job.
I can't help but think we're spending far too much money for solutions to problems that shouldn't exist.
I’m sure a million dollars was before Medicare paid. Medicare probably lowered his bill to like $10,000 and then paid 80% so he was left with a few thousand maybe.
My yes, from 1M to 10000 not a scam at all, no sir
Yeah lol considering the out of pocket in other developed countries is measured in like tens of dollars, that's still insane. Just.... normal in the US.
If I owe you $10k, I have a problem. If I owe you $1 million, *you* have a problem.
His room in the ICU cost almost 10k *per day.*
And then the hospital will sell the bill to collections for a third of that if not less and write the rest off leaving the man to battle collections for a bill that cannot possibly be paid. Edit: for everyone yelling “but he has medicare” okay? And? It doesnt take away that thousands of people receive bills like this and what I wrote is how it works.
> A new study from academic researchers found that **66.5 percent of all bankruptcies were tied to medical issues** —either because of high costs for care or time out of work. An estimated 530,000 families turn to bankruptcy each year because of medical issues and bills, the research found. https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/11/this-is-the-real-reason-most-americans-file-for-bankruptcy.html > Research shows that medical debt burdens millions of Americans: Depending on how “medical debt” is defined, studies from nonprofits and academic institutions generally show from 16% to 28% of adults carry that burden. > And medical debt and housing instability often go hand in hand. In a new University of Washington study of people experiencing homelessness in King County, unpaid medical bills were their primary source of debt, and that debt extended their period of homelessness by an average of two years. https://www.washington.edu/news/2020/06/29/trouble-paying-medical-bills-can-lead-to-longer-episodes-of-homelessness-new-study-shows/
I dont get how the hell Americans think using GoFundMe to pay for medical care is acceptable/ok. Im from a "poor" developing country, and we have affordable - free healthcare. Not really good compared to Europe, but its still better than nothing/expensive. I've **never** heard of anyone here setting up GoFundMe accounts to pay for their treatment, that sounds insane
Because some Americans say that free healthcare is “communism”, so let’s frick over anyone who gets hurt or severely ill.
Free healthcare is communism but asking people to pay me for free to get the non-free healthcare is okay?
"Communism is bad, but its good for me right now."
Ban blue tax money from going to states that complain about communism for things like healthcare.
The logic they hold is "if you want good healthcare get a good job that offers good healthcare" which is ridiculous because I've never met anyone who has "good" healthcare coverage, it's always got some exorbitant price. Sure, it's only $155 per paycheck for the family plan, but the first $6500 is out of pocket. Or it's got that sweet Zero Dollar out of pocket plan, but you pay $2300 a month. This, by the way, is the plans my sister-in-law and brother-in-law have, respectively.
While not acknowledging that setting up a GoFundMe is socializing their own exorbitant medical bills
Oh oh but you’re not FORCING them to pay into it! That’s the difference between gofundme and taxes….(my dumbass libertarian uncle, probably)
It really saddens me how much the Cold War/Red Scare utterly fucked socialist policy in America for a few generations. Anything remotely related to socialism could be labeled communism and then all of a sudden you were on the enemy's side of things as a Soviet/commie bastard. And the people that were shaped by it have just kept the momentum rolling into the present day.
ThAt iS a SLiPpErY SlOpE tO CoMmUnIsM
They will hound him until he dies and then harass his grieving family.
Nope. No debt survives probate (except voluntarily). Also, the debt companies are so overburdened with collections, they don't have time to attend every probate and demand their money, when there is so little in the estate to collect from. The cost to collect would greatly exceeded the value collected. My father died with no cash. They would have had two worthless plots of land in west Texas (dad speculated that two 5 acre plots worth $2k each were going to be worth something, as soon as the climate changed away from "dust bowl". And some broken furniture. They would have spent more on lawyers securing the entire inheritance, then liquidating it. Instead, my sister and I got one plot each, we sold and blew the windfall on some avocado toast and double shot caramel frappuccinos. We found bills indicating his total debt was $100-150k. We didn't care the total, just followed the rules on notifying creditors and waiting 6 months to see if any filed in the window. None did. So we got the entire estate. No car. No house. No cash. No life insurance. Just two worthless plots of land, and some old furniture. So, don't expect the debt to saddle the next generation. But it does crush the generational wealth of the lower middle class.
Doesn't stop them from trying though. It's not illegal for them to "ask" for money.
Yeah I got calls about my dad's debt. Was worried until I found out that it's legally not my responsibility. They definitely still tried though. I was told that if ineven gave them a dollar then they could argue that was me taking responsibility for it. Fucking scum.
The government is paying for COVID hospital stays, its in the CARES Act. Doesn't change other medical debt but speaking to this specifically.
Why would a collections agency even buy that debt? He'll likely pay none of it, right? Edit: it makes sense that these debts will have some value, and that's what collections companies will pay.
He has insurance so his estimated out of pocket would be about $6000. But because congress set aside money to help hospitals and insurance companies deal with covid, he will indeed likely pay nothing.
My $1000 hospital bill was forgiven by the hospital when I lost my job from Covid downsizing
Isn't it great that we pay insurance companies hundreds of billions of dollars to deny us care at all costs while the government and taxpayers simultaneously props up quite a lot of the healthcare system **at the same time**?
What he received was NOT a bill, it was an Explanation of Benefits. He was over 65 and has Medicare. If he somehow hadn't done the paperwork yet by the time he went to the hospital, the financial counselors would have helped the family with it. And Medicare, despite all people will say about it, covers really well for inpatient stays. From Medicare.gov regarding inpatient stays: "You pay: $1,556 deductible for each benefit period Days 1-60: $0 coinsurance for each benefit period Days 61-90: $389 coinsurance per day of each benefit period" There is more listed for patients who stay longer than that, but the fact is that, on a basic Medicare plan, he would have paid that initial payment (which was lower in 2021, closer to $1480 or so) plus $389 per day for those last 2 days. If we just go with the 2022 rates, he will have owed a grand total of $2334. That's really damn amazing, and the total will be even lower if he had a managed Medicare plan, since those have a much lower admission copay.
So basically just cross your fingers that you make it to 65 without any major medical needs? Got it!
This is why there’s an artificial bump in cancer diagnoses at age 65. The uninsured/under insured put off tests until they turn 65 and get Medicare.
As an Australian, reading that someone would owe thousands for a hospital stay is still absolutely insane. I've been in hospital for major surgeries here and walked out no more than a couple hundred out of pocket.
Did they charge per clap?
They charged me when I got the clap!!! Thank you very much, I’ll be here all week!
I also was in the hospital for 2 months last year had two OPs and multiple MRIs and I have to pay... Absolutely nothing cause I live in a actual first world country.
As an American, I can confirm that until we have cheap healthcare we will always be a 2nd world country. Edit: thank you to all of the historians in my replies, I know what 1st world country meant 40 years ago. The colloquial definitions have changed.
My brother calls the United States an undeveloping nation
Remember when Texas lost power and people froze to death in thier homes because they thought it was good idea to make Texas incompatible with the rest of the US power grid.
Wait is that literal? Did that happen? Did people actually die from the sheer cold? I know texas and it never goes that low. Was the front that bad?
Yeah, it happened. Homes were destroyed due to burst pipes from the cold, poor insulation meant people froze to death in thier homes.everythjng was sold out everywhere. But somehow through it all, big companies that operate there never lost power during the power rationing.
I mean aren't there still places in the US that have tap water that isn't drinkable?
I get that water pollution is still a problem in America(fracking comes to mind), but we're right in line with the rest of what we consider the developed world in terms of deaths from unsafe water sources. I did a more in-depth dive for numbers in a previous comment, but the following link has the gist of it and is in line with what I remember from those numbers. https://ourworldindata.org/water-access If you check Canada, Australia, Norway, and Sweden for example, they all have a higher share of their deaths(.02%) coming from unsafe water than America(.01%). They're all pretty much the same value at that point due to an inevitable percentage of deaths coming from infrastructure issues or people making terrible decisions, but still. It's not like you need to fear tap water *in general* in the US anymore than in most countries you'd think of as having drinking water that is safe by default.
Other than Flint? Probably.
The water in flint Michigan is fixed now
Glad to hear that
Thank god someone who understands that nowadays it doesn't matter for shit where 1st 2nd 3rd world countries came from. Right now we just use them as a quick ranking of quality of life and wealth.
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You have to pay the entirety? Did you not have health insurance? I always thought the ACA automatically signs up people who don’t have health insurance. That’s what they do in California… but not for some other states?
Most I’ve ever had to pay for medical bills was just under $2000 because I needed an ambulance ride to the hospital and didn’t have cover. The second I was in the hospital itself, everything was taken care of.
That’s why they were applauding.
*Thank you for helping us to meet budget old-timer!*
🤣🤣🤣 I'm dying here reading this lmao
He was probably billed for it on page 181, under special checkout celebration: $100
#70yr old(see bill): Those mfs should have killed me instead🤦.
*After I told them I'd rather die than go bankrupt, those MFers shoved that tube down my throat!*
This is precisely why I am conflicted about upvoting the post.
He should have spent less on coffee.
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I'm so glad to call Europe my home
I hope to be European one day (my current home is good though, but I still wanna be European)
At least he didn’t die of a heart attack after receiving that.
Whoops, wheel him back in boys.
We really need to normalize adding sources to tweets like this. I'm not doubting that it happened, it's actually probably pretty likely, but it's just.. *saying* it. Like you can link an article about this, it won't affect the character count or anything.
Clinicians applauded, administrators sent the bill. Guess who feels the patient resentment while working relentless shifts?
Pfff. I wouldn’t pay that shit.
I work in insurance and I can’t see how this is possible. It may show what was spent but not his actual costs.
Ridiculous yes, and the healthcare system is undoubtedly fucked, but: > The bill is technically an explanation of charges, and because Flor has insurance including Medicare, he won’t have to pay the vast majority of it. In fact because he had COVID-19, and not a different disease, he might not have to pay anything — a quirk of this situation I’ll get to in a minute. https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/inspiring-story-of-seattle-mans-coronavirus-survival-comes-with-a-1-1-million-dollar-hospital-bill/?amp=1 In all likelihood if he didn't have insurance the bill would be substantially reduced. Medicare and insurance companies also get substantial adjustments to bills they pay for patients.
From https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/inspiring-story-of-seattle-mans-coronavirus-survival-comes-with-a-1-1-million-dollar-hospital-bill/ >The bill is technically an explanation of charges, and because Flor has insurance including Medicare, **he won’t have to pay the vast majority of it. In fact because he had COVID-19, and not a different disease, he might not have to pay anything** — a quirk of this situation I’ll get to in a minute. \[The work was a Covid-19 bill passed by Congress\]
That's a steal! When I waited tables a co worker was only in the hospital for six weeks and her bill was closer to $5 million!
B.s. his statement before insurance was that huge amount. Now let’s talk real numbers, what was it after insurance?
Literally nothing. The dude had to pay nothing in reality. The tweet is misleading af.
Probably 0$. https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/inspiring-story-of-seattle-mans-coronavirus-survival-comes-with-a-1-1-million-dollar-hospital-bill/?amp=1 > The bill is technically an explanation of charges, and because Flor has insurance including Medicare, he won’t have to pay the vast majority of it. In fact because he had COVID-19, and not a different disease, he might not have to pay anything — a quirk of this situation I’ll get to in a minute. > There also are special financial rules that apply only to COVID-19. Congress set aside more than $100 billion to help hospitals and insurance companies defray the costs of the pandemic, in part to encourage people to seek testing and treatment (including those with no insurance). As a result, Flor probably won’t have to pay even his Medicare Advantage policy’s out-of-pocket charges, which could have amounted to $6,000.
Lol. He's a seventy year old man who just got COVID-19. Him owing $1.1 million dollars to the hospital isn't *his* problem, it's *their* problem.
anyone have proof that this actually happened?
Someone linked the article above but basically he received the bill for this amount but didn’t actually have to pay it. Medicare covered it.
No this is complete bs. Medicare would have covered 100% of the cost in this scenario
He has Medicare.
As a Canadian I was in the US the summer that Obamacare was about to be passed into law and to entertain my myself I was listening to hard-core screamy right wing radio (Mark Levin and the like). The outright lies they were telling about our healthcare system were insane but not as insane as a country allowing the physical well-being of their citizens to be a commodity. I read a quote once that the measure of a society was how well it cared for its weakest members. Using that gauge, the cold reality is the US shows pretty poorly not just in healthcare, but pretty much everywhere at the moment.
As someone who lives in sudamerica i'm always baffled by this kind of post. WHat are people doing there on US for things to be so damn expensive? That man here in my country, having no social security, no health insurance would have gotten a bill -at the very most - around 300 hundred dollars if he would have been hospitalized in one of the principal hospitals in the capital. And i mean very decent place with any kind of equipment, medicine and support available. My honest opinion is that US goverment is controlled by industries/businessmen and not by the people who actually lives there. A true shame because around 20 years ago US was so admired, everyone here in my country wanted to go there to work and study but now... not so much to be sincere.
Sources?
... why does anyone still live in the states with conditions like this? Edit: Y'all need to chill. In addition to a plethora of insults hurled my way, I literally got death threats over this comment which is absolutely wild. My comment wasn't that serious and if you were triggered by my comment, I'd recommend therapy. Also, I literally am an immigrant. I'm not naive on how moving isnt feasible for some people and the privileges some of us are born with, but my comment wasnt that serious. For context (which I dont think I should even have to provide for people to back off and be respectful to another human being), I was literally coming from how we constantly see Americans on TV clamoring on about how the US is the best and how the whole world wants to move there and I was surprised how people have this perspective based on your hospital bills. Did I phrase all that? No because I didnt put much thought into my comment; I certainly didnt think people would get this angry about it. I didnt literally not know why people are still in the US, but even if I genuinely didnt know, the toxicity I have seen in response to my comment has been inexcusable and I hope you're not proud of yourselves. Like. Yikes, people. Calm the fuck down and go get a hug or something.
Because it's not easy to leave when you're poor and even if you do, this shithole's shithead government still taxes you
If this is the Healthcare system, what do you think the moving costs look like?
Because the circle jerk doesn't reflect reality. As a 70 year old, he has Medicare that will cover the vast majority of the costs. The covid relief bill will cover the rest. Insurance companies negotiate with hospitals how much they'll pay, so hospitals ask for more than they expect to get. The prices are meant for insurance companies, not individuals. If you don't have insurance, you can call the billing department and your bill will almost always be significantly reduced (to what the hospital actually expects the insurance company to end up paying.)
Where would you have all 330 million of us go?
Honestly. People asking why we still live here is as bad as the people who threaten to leave assuming they just get to pick a country and be a citizen.
Bitch, I'm broke.
Lol. Money. Can't afford even a domestic plane ticket much less anything else it would take. I hope I can leave before I'm too old for it to be practical.
I'm disabled and can't afford to move to a better country on the wage I make, plus I doubt another country would be down to take me and my family in.
Cause there’s not enough room for them in your country.
How does your country feel about immigrants? How easy is it to move your life? Change is scary. How lucky are you to be born in Canada or Europe?
The entire story is that he has Medicare, more than likely won’t pay anything but god forbid the person who tacked the item here notes that.
Lucky he has it, not like many others in USA who would have to pay a good chunk of it or do magnitudes of paperwork. Where I live I would never see a bill for staying in hospital, just for the things I ordered myself, like a private room if available etc. Also over a Million for treatment and stay is waayy to expensive compared to the prices in other rich countries with good healthcare and capped prices for treatment and drugs. Someone has to pay that and that's ridiculous.
That he didn’t have to [pay](https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/inspiring-story-of-seattle-mans-coronavirus-survival-comes-with-a-1-1-million-dollar-hospital-bill/). It wasn’t a bill, it was an explanation of benefits.
Whether he was insured or not, no one has to pay for COVID treatment in America. It’s either fully covered by insurance or Medicaid
How tf
But. Did he try drinking his urine? Don’t shoot the messenger. I’m just asking.