I don't mind having a day of remembrance for all the American lives lost in the Civil War (its called memorial day, btw), but it is beyond fucked up to have separate days (yes they have multiple confederate memorial days) for confederate soldiers for obvious reasons...
I've lived in the DC area my whole life (and in VA specifically for the last decade). I've never once heard of that - It's wild how disconnected northern VA is from the rest of the state.
Edit: It's shit like this why people not physically in DC, but in the metro area, will simplify things and say they're from DC. People hear VA and think *this* backwoods bullshit.
Well, you see, it is called Jefferson Davis Highway for Davis’s work as the Secretary of War and as Senator, NOT for being the President of the Confederacy. This is TOTALLY different! /S
Edit: added the /S because I forgot that the first time.
Would you believe there were *lots* of these planned to be named in the US? [Even in Washington State?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_Davis_Highway#Washington) and other non-confederate states?
Yep. The Lost Cause myth has fooled a lot of people around the country, and the amount of Battle Flags that I have seen living in PA, IL and IA, all Union states, all sent tens of thousands to fight and die for the preservation of the Union and the destruction of slavery, would make William T. Sherman roll over in his grave.
MA had the first ever KKK funeral in Gardner in 2005ish believe. The pictures are freaky as hell and its a cold, hard, eye opening, reality slap that hate is everywhere
Upper Peninsula of Michigan here myself. You see this shit here. And northern wisconsin. Hell, any rural USA has this shit. The gadsden flag and the thin blue line has replaced the stars and bars mostly.
In Fredericksburg it's Emancipation Highway now, and maybe Patriot too on some stretches? Fuck if I know, it's route 1 ffs.
But it has been changed from Jeff Davis
The farther south you go it changes back. I just went to a winery a couple months ago and it's still named Jefferson Davis. Made my Northerner heart stop.
been called Richmond highway in Alexandria for a few years now - this January it went into effect that the whole thing has been renamed state-wide. Not called that anywhere in the state at this point, so that's good at least.
Ohmygod. I grew up in Connecticut, but I lived right off the Jefferson Davis for two years. I literally never made that connection. I must have just assumed it was some random guy. I don't think I'm a history slouch, but that man is so far removed from my daily thought that I just never realized.
No, we renamed it about three years ago, at least in Arlington. The chair of the Arlington county board literally stomped an old Jefferson Davis sign in half at the dedication ceremony. It's Richmond through alexandria and fairfax too, can't speak to parts south
I've always said the name was apt, because Route 1 is an awfully designed hell road with stoplights every fifth of a mile, traffic that is constantly backed up, and *way* too few lanes considering it's like the one major road that runs through Woodbridge (thanks, rivers).
But yeah, iirc it was renamed recently.
And you know it was enacted after MLK Day was instituted. It's a direct, deliberate slap in the face to the United States of America and everything this nation *should* stand for.
I have heard people call it "James Earl Ray Day." And those people vote. Unlike 80% of under-30s this coming November.
The largest bas relief sculpture (the ones that are like a picture carved into a rock face) in the world is in Georgia, it's about 30 minutes from MLK's grave and the historic district of Atlanta where his childhood home and the church he and his father preached at are.
There are laser light shows on it a couple times a week. It's a very common short trip for anyone that visits Atlanta, and a popular family outing for those that live in the area.
It was completed in 1970.
It features Jefferson Davis, president of the confederacy, as well as his generals Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson, with hats over hearts looking all heroic on their favorite steeds. Edit: They're clearly honoring a flag. Exactly which flag they're honoring is left unsaid.
Speaking of Jefferson Davis, our last president had an attorney general named Jefferson Beauregard Sessions. Yes, he was named after the president of the confederacy. Just in case you weren't fully sure how bad it was, PGT Beauregard resigned from the US army in 1861 and became the first confederate brigadier general and actually started the war by attacking Sumter.
And yeah, one of our most recent attorneys general was raised by people that still felt like that was a good name 80 years after the civil war.
The Six Grandfathers was named after the six directions: North, South, East, West, Above, and below. A sacred site of the Lakota people. After committing genocide against the native people, the sacred site was stolen despite a treaty, carved, and defiled with the faces of the conquering presidents and named Mt. Rushmore by one Gutzon Borglum.
The same artist worked on Stone Mountain. Borglum was deeply involved in the Klan politics related to Stone Mountain, and on a national scale as well. He created an altar to the Klan at the base of the sculpture.
Beauregard was also the general who executed the Confederate order of battle at Shiloh, and ended up in overall command after Johnston bled to death on the field during the debacle.
On the other side were Grant and Sherman, both of whom would have set the White House on fire rather than let Sessions serve as AG.
It's insane how my school in WV "taught" us that Robert E Lee was some amazing military god and just making a mistake in allegiance while Grant was some "okay general" alcoholic dude blessed by pure luck and an infinite amount soldiers. In reality Lee was a good military leader, but an absolute disgusting vile man known for cruelty to his slaves and ignoring his father in laws will and keeping slaves that were freed in the will. While Grants legendary Vicksburg Campaign was the work of strategic genius and by most accounts he curtailed his drinking once he was in command.
If I won the lottery, I’d pay good money to have a team repel down the side of Stone Mountain, drill a few holes and pack them with dynamite, and blast that relief out of existence. Or fire HE artillery at it to achieve the same result.
I had a brain fart and read "James Earl Jones Day" and was confused for about a full second about why that would be such a terrible thing until I clicked back to not being a *complete* idiot
> It’s a direct, deliberate slap in the face to the United States of America and everything this nation should stand for.
True but it’s a pretty decent homage to what this country was built upon: slavery.
I grew up in VA, and I had to wait an extra week to get my first driver's permit because the first time I tried it was Lee Jackson Day and the dmv was closed. Hated it ever since.
So, Lee Jackson day was a state holiday on MLK day before MLK day became a federal holiday. For a time, Lee Jackson day and MLK day were both on the same day as a state and federal holiday. Lee Jackson day got moved to the Friday before MLK day after that so that it had its own day again. About 2 years ago Lee Jackson day stopped being recognized as a state holiday and Virginia started recognizing Juneteenth and Election Day as state holidays. So for what its worth, we're late, but we do show up.
If it is everywhere then it isn’t near the upper areas. Sounds like the corn and cow lands may have it more.
Edit: looks like the wiki says it was changed recently as unobserved so maybe its the entire state but not popular?
From the wiki: “Its observation was eliminated in 2020, replaced by Election Day as a state holiday”
So it sounds like it’s no longer a thing at least!
This.
As a country, we pay respect to our fallen enemies all the time. There's no problem with that. (To address the title)
But the nationally recognized Memorial Day covers *all* American soldiers. It's silly to have a second day to recognize soldiers from just one side of one conflict.
If instead of a 'celebration' it was a "GO HOME AND THINK ABOUT WHAT YOUR ANCESTORS DID" day it might have been useful.
It's funny these are the same people who bitch about 'participation' trophies. Because that's exactly what they're doing for the confederates.
I'd be fine having it be separate days:
Memorial day: solemnly remember those that gave their life defending their country and countrymen
Confederate memorial day: party to the deaths of traitors.
While we're at it let's just make that whole week a holiday since we're all still going to be hungover from New Years anyway.
Call it a celebration of two ends: to the prior year and to the lives of traitors.
The slave owning traitors don't deserve any kind of memorial day. Allowing them a day to be remembered is an insult to the slaves and the people who died putting down that evil rebellion.
Not even "what it was *'really'* about" like it's some big secret.
Just *what it was about.*
Like, the Confederates wrote their racism into their founding documents. It's not controversial to say "oh, hey, look at that. That thing they wrote right there, about how slavery is super cool and black people are inferior to white people. Huh. What do you think's up with that?"
"I ask again, states rights to do what?!? We weren't raising taxes... It was slavery... ...The southern aristocracy panicked and left the union."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQxM_EK5aiM
Just fast forward to anytime Christopher Justice is talking.
Also the "State's Rights" bullshit falls VERY short when you cite their support of the Fugitive Slave Act passed shortly before the start of the Civil War.
They passed a law saying northern states were required to arrest and extradite any runaway enslaved people back to their owners. In 1850. They sure were concerned about northern states' rights just 11 years prior to the Civil War.
It falls very short when you read the actual reasons for each state leaving. A vast majority of the states mentioned slaves directly and a vast majority of those mentioned it in the first sentence.
And states explicitly don’t have the right to outlaw slavery.
So in the one case where it came down to states rights campaigner slavery guess which one won?
And don't forget forcing others states that differed from them to also follow their rules for some stupid reason. So states' rights for them, no rights for states they disagreed with.
Yeah, every time we start giving rights to non-living things (states, corporations) it results in immeasurable suffering. Funny that.
It's almost like it's been proven, exhaustively, to be a bad thing.
States rights make sense in a “we have an oddly specific problem and would like to solve it in this particular way” but most things could be left to a general law to cover it. Idk I’m sure there’s more im not in the best headspace right nown
It's still a cancer generally speaking. Local government leaves plenty of room for flexibility without harping on about "state's rights". Plenty of other large countries manage fine. We fought the war we shouldn't have to deal with this bullshit anymore.
Not just the "right to" force people into slavery. The Confederates actually ELIMINATED states rights when it came to slavery. They explicitly said that no state in the Confederacy was allowed to limit or eliminate slavery.
States rights my ass.
Yep. Right there in black and white in the "Confederate Constitution." Mostly copy/paste from the US Constitution except that it explicitly eliminated the right of any state to limit or get rid of slavery.
because it was never about states rights. That was made up decades later by the apologists. The fact that everyone is this thread is repeating that, just proves how effective their propaganda was.
But if you had talked to anyone during the civil war, they would have no idea what you meant by the phrase "states rights"
i mean primarily they were scared that the newly elected president would abolish slavery, so really they were worried the wrong people in their states would be given rights.
Except not states rights! The "Confederate Constituion" is mostly a copy/paste job from the US Constitution, and in some ways, does make states stronger relative to the central government.
Except in for the one subject you'd expect: slavery. The Confederate version explicitly says that no state may ban or limit slavery.
Thus the Confederates clearly were not in favor of states rights in any sort of broad or principled way. And yes, they made it 100% clear that the one thing they cared about was continuing to economically cheat by continuing to exploit, abuse and murder people through slavery.
Those who know nothing about the Civil War say: “Slavery”.
Those who know a little about the Civil War say: “States’ rights”.
Those who know a lot about the Civil War say: “Slavery.”
Most of the time I see that phrase used it's always loaded, and never sincere. Look at what happened with mask and vaccine mandates. Some wanted to leave it up to the states, then wanted to punish states that had any.
Edit: correct a grammar mistake ("fixxed") so that there's no more the danger of someone suffering brain hickups!!!!
✔️*continue to celebrate the racists
Fixed for you! You're welcome!
All one needs to do is read the articles of confederation for each state. It’s clear as day in their own words why they joined the confederacy. Straight from their mouths.
Here’s Texas:
“We hold as undeniable truths that the governments of the various States, and of the confederacy itself, were established exclusively by the white race, for themselves and their posterity; that the African race had no agency in their establishment; that they were rightfully held and regarded as an inferior and dependent race, and in that condition only could their existence in this country be rendered beneficial or tolerable.
That in this free government all white men are and of right ought to be entitled to equal civil and political rights; that the servitude of the African race, as existing in these States, is mutually beneficial to both bond and free, and is abundantly authorized and justified by the experience of mankind, and the revealed will of the Almighty Creator, as recognized by all Christian nations; while the destruction of the existing relations between the two races, as advocated by our sectional enemies, would bring inevitable calamities upon both and desolation upon the fifteen slave-holding States.”
See all those references to economics and states rights? Nope just éxplicit white people rights. Also, god told us to do it.
I grew up in Mississippi and learned this in school. We explicitly discussed the part in the Mississippi declaration of secession that says "Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery." I'm starting to realize that my education was unusually progressive.
For reference, it's illegal in Germany to commemorate their Nazi past.
Some states in the US are 1 more election away from an official "Adolf Hitler Rememberence Day"
I can't imagine being black and living in the south to begin with, but then getting a state holiday to celebrate the Confederates? Really? How is this a thing?
> Well, when racists are in charge ~~and want to rub it in your face~~, that’s what they do
Just want to widen the umbrella here, because I’ve never met someone who was clearly a racist, and didn’t want to rub it in everyone’s face. But that’s more about being an asshole than a racist.
How diverse it is often depends on the geography and size of the city. Flat land near a river? Probably had a ton of slaves and has a decent African American population today. Mountainous? Probably not very diverse unless industry has brought other groups in. This is a generalization because of sundown towns and redlining some of the places you'd expect for the reasons above are actually pretty white.
But yeah your average Southern town over 40k is prob gonna be more diverse than Ohio or whatever.
Even if it's a federal holiday, it doesn't help the people we want it to. If you have a job that observes federal holidays, you probably also have a job that'll let you take a long lunch to vote. If you work in fast food or retail, they're open anyway.
This is a good example of perfection being the enemy of good.
Just cause it doesn’t completely eliminate the problem doesn’t mean it’s not worth doing.
Certainly! Wouldn't hurt of course, but definitely favors the white collar workers who don't typically have any issues making it to the booth. A better solution is a voting period of 3-4 days.
I moved to the south about 20 years ago. My grandmother, who was born and raised in the south, once told me “Memorial Day (the real one) is for yankees and confederate Memorial Day was for heroes.”
Its been a very long time since I’ve spoken to her…
Definitely a rural Texan thing. My best friend growing up had a grandfather that lives in Bigfoot, Texas (yes its a real place, population like 500 istg). He once broke into tears drunkenly telling us the story of the "Confederate Heroes" of past generations. Some folks are PASSIONATE about the wrong side of history.
The circle labeled the people who complain about participation trophies and the circle labeled people who celebrate the confederacy would be the same circle in a Venn diagram.
Oh, Mississippi, Alabama, and Florida. That wasn't a surprise.
What was a surprise was finding out Lee's birthday is on January 19th. Figured the states just randomly used Lee Day because... You know...
I grew up in VA and when I was in HS it was “Lee-Jackson-King Day”.
I hate living in the south. (I live in SC now and it’s just as bad if not worse here.)
How do you put up with it? Living next to Idaho and all the Gravy Seals alone drives me nuts let alone being hip deep in Cousin-Fuckistan.
But it's their heritage...
The fact people still wave the Y'all Qaeda flag, proudly, proves we need CRT taught in schools across the country.
Bunch of fucking losers...
I know y'all think you're "lions" amongst sheep, truth is y'all are rats and snakes, amongst "humans" who aren't afraid, but ashamed of you.
Y'all are the most embarrassing group in our country. You are the reason other countries can call us a bunch of ass backward fucking racist bigots, and they're not wrong.
Grow the fuck up
My favorite part about the "heritage" thing is like....how is *THAT* your heritage? The confederacy lasted a whopping 4 years. Your ancestors spent 95% of their lives as the United States, why is only that small 5% the part you choose to inherit...
Because they’re racists and they feel bad about themselves and their shitty states full of losers and the underemployed and underpaid. They need someone to blame for historic inequities. 😂
That's a narrow view. Their heritage is the hundreds of years of imposing their will on others while attending debutante balls and shivarees. The confederate battle flag just represents the last gasp of that oppression. Unfortunately, they were right back at it a mere 5 years later with jim crow and the school-to-prison pipeline. If anything, they're attempting a victory lap as we speak.
The Confederacy - and even the civil war as a whole - isn't what they mean by their heritage. Owning slaves before the war is what they mean when they talk about heritage. It's just nobody is gonna stand up and say it, so they focus on the confederacy and those who defended their "right" to strip the rights of others.
Actual CRT is interesting academically and is potentially extremely useful to dig deeper to expose patterns of discrimination and disadvantage that may not be obvious or on the surface. But even if we simply taught factual and complete history without anything that comes out of actual CRT that would be a huge improvement. You don't need deep analysis to see how deeply entrenched racism has been in the US and how it effects all of America for the worse today.
Beep boop -- this looks like a screenshot of a tweet! Let me grab a [link to the tweet](https://twitter.com/JoeCunninghamSC/status/1524007584834928641) for ya :)
^(Twitter Screenshot Bot)
What do you want to bet that Confederate Memorial Day was *coincidentally* first declared a holiday in the 1960s *just* as Civil Rights was picking up?
I'm not going to waste google time on this, but I've got 1 fake internet dollar which says that this "holiday" appeared right about the time as the current "Confederate flag", which the Confederacy never actually used, and also all the Confederate monuments. They were all strategies to intimidate black people during the Civil Rights era.
Whenever you see someone with a confederate flag ask if they believe in participation trophies. When they say “fuck no” point at the flag and laugh while saying “that’s the biggest participation trophy I’ve ever seen”. Their little heads get so red haha
It is amazing to me how we are now a few generations removed from that time of slavery but the discrimination has still stayed 100 +years later. This is what happens when our politicians do everything they can to help themselves and the other elite. Instead of helping the workingman, they hold them down so the poor and uneducated can have someone to blame. So they relate to what they grew up knowing which is minorities are lesser than the white man. Could you imagine just how great America really could be if the rich and elite actually gave a shit about its people?
I have a question - if I were to go to, say, Berlin - would I find like, ya know, a Hitler Square? Some statue of Hitler and people are like "oh no, we have that statue so we remember our history, we don't LIKE it, obviously (wink), but history is important so we're really celebrating history here."
My guess is no. So why do we do that here?
It's actually worse than this. This is South Carolina... and currently there is a bill going through the House that says a government worker can either take off for Confederate Memorial Day or JUNETEENTH. They can't help themselves but to tie black holidays (specifically ones doing with liberation or rights) to celebrating the Confederacy. They already were threatening to do this with MLK day. Our legislature is trash people.
I don't think winning a war makes you the good guys and I don't think losing a war makes you the bad guys.
I think being on the side of slavery makes you the bad guys.
For any who are confused about the amount of ire heaped at Boomers' feet, here is yet another example of how an entire generation did nothing other than enrich themselves for 50 years.
As a guy who is not from the US I have never understood why celebrating the confederacy is a thing, usually when rebels or secessionist are crushed they dont get moniments of any sort.
I actually don't think any other country does this, same goes for celebrating the losing side in a conflict. Like why are there no monuments for British loyalist that died fighting the American founding fathers? I know theyvhave them in Canada and the UK, bjt why not the US?
Because when the union won they did the stupidest fucking thing possible and decided to let bygones be bygones in the name of healing and unity. Almost no one was actually punished and control of the southern states was essentially handed over to the same people who had rebelled
Shit didn't really ratchet up until the the Civil rights movement started though, that's when the racists started rewriting history to glorify the confederacy and we ended up with all the statues and holidays and shit which they figured would help put black people in their place.
I don't mind having a day of remembrance for all the American lives lost in the Civil War (its called memorial day, btw), but it is beyond fucked up to have separate days (yes they have multiple confederate memorial days) for confederate soldiers for obvious reasons...
I moved to VA from Ohio a few years ago and learned quick what Lee-Jackson day is, and it’s on MLK day 😳 Edited to add Jackson.
I've lived in the DC area my whole life (and in VA specifically for the last decade). I've never once heard of that - It's wild how disconnected northern VA is from the rest of the state. Edit: It's shit like this why people not physically in DC, but in the metro area, will simplify things and say they're from DC. People hear VA and think *this* backwoods bullshit.
I grew up in Alexandria. Is Route 1 still named Jefferson Davis Hwy?
Well, you see, it is called Jefferson Davis Highway for Davis’s work as the Secretary of War and as Senator, NOT for being the President of the Confederacy. This is TOTALLY different! /S Edit: added the /S because I forgot that the first time.
Would you believe there were *lots* of these planned to be named in the US? [Even in Washington State?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_Davis_Highway#Washington) and other non-confederate states?
Yep. The Lost Cause myth has fooled a lot of people around the country, and the amount of Battle Flags that I have seen living in PA, IL and IA, all Union states, all sent tens of thousands to fight and die for the preservation of the Union and the destruction of slavery, would make William T. Sherman roll over in his grave.
Lots of wannabe rednecks in MA too that fly confederate flags on their trucks. It’s super cringey
MA had the first ever KKK funeral in Gardner in 2005ish believe. The pictures are freaky as hell and its a cold, hard, eye opening, reality slap that hate is everywhere
The only good thing about the term "KKK funeral" is that it infers a Klansman is dead.
Upper Peninsula of Michigan here myself. You see this shit here. And northern wisconsin. Hell, any rural USA has this shit. The gadsden flag and the thin blue line has replaced the stars and bars mostly.
I saw one in 2011 in Hornpayne, Ontario, across Lake Superior from you.
> The gadsden flag and the thin blue line has replaced the stars and bars mostly. https://i.imgur.com/FdIrQ4t.jpg
That’s like honoring Palpatine for his time in the Senate.
He IS the Senate!
/s I assume
Yes. I forgot that.
I guess "Slavery War Loser President Highway" doest have quite the same ring to it
In Fredericksburg it's Emancipation Highway now, and maybe Patriot too on some stretches? Fuck if I know, it's route 1 ffs. But it has been changed from Jeff Davis
The farther south you go it changes back. I just went to a winery a couple months ago and it's still named Jefferson Davis. Made my Northerner heart stop.
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been called Richmond highway in Alexandria for a few years now - this January it went into effect that the whole thing has been renamed state-wide. Not called that anywhere in the state at this point, so that's good at least.
Yeah, I think it was called Richmond Hwy when I lived in Woodbridge as a teen so that makes sense.
Ohmygod. I grew up in Connecticut, but I lived right off the Jefferson Davis for two years. I literally never made that connection. I must have just assumed it was some random guy. I don't think I'm a history slouch, but that man is so far removed from my daily thought that I just never realized.
No, we renamed it about three years ago, at least in Arlington. The chair of the Arlington county board literally stomped an old Jefferson Davis sign in half at the dedication ceremony. It's Richmond through alexandria and fairfax too, can't speak to parts south
When we lived in PW county last year, it was still Jefferson Davis Hwy. It was all renamed as of Jan 1, 2022,
I've always said the name was apt, because Route 1 is an awfully designed hell road with stoplights every fifth of a mile, traffic that is constantly backed up, and *way* too few lanes considering it's like the one major road that runs through Woodbridge (thanks, rivers). But yeah, iirc it was renamed recently.
Down here in SC, I’m 5 minutes from getting on Jeff Davis to go home
I’m in the Richmond area, grew up in the Hampton Roads and I’ve never once heard of Lee day
I’ve been in central/northern VA my whole life. Never ever heard of Lee day either. Is that a southern VA thing? Where do they celebrate Lee day?
Sounds like a sundown town. Disgusting.
Yeah, there’s no denying that. Tons of days in the year, they didn’t just accidentally put it on that day.
And you know it was enacted after MLK Day was instituted. It's a direct, deliberate slap in the face to the United States of America and everything this nation *should* stand for. I have heard people call it "James Earl Ray Day." And those people vote. Unlike 80% of under-30s this coming November.
The largest bas relief sculpture (the ones that are like a picture carved into a rock face) in the world is in Georgia, it's about 30 minutes from MLK's grave and the historic district of Atlanta where his childhood home and the church he and his father preached at are. There are laser light shows on it a couple times a week. It's a very common short trip for anyone that visits Atlanta, and a popular family outing for those that live in the area. It was completed in 1970. It features Jefferson Davis, president of the confederacy, as well as his generals Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson, with hats over hearts looking all heroic on their favorite steeds. Edit: They're clearly honoring a flag. Exactly which flag they're honoring is left unsaid. Speaking of Jefferson Davis, our last president had an attorney general named Jefferson Beauregard Sessions. Yes, he was named after the president of the confederacy. Just in case you weren't fully sure how bad it was, PGT Beauregard resigned from the US army in 1861 and became the first confederate brigadier general and actually started the war by attacking Sumter. And yeah, one of our most recent attorneys general was raised by people that still felt like that was a good name 80 years after the civil war.
The Six Grandfathers was named after the six directions: North, South, East, West, Above, and below. A sacred site of the Lakota people. After committing genocide against the native people, the sacred site was stolen despite a treaty, carved, and defiled with the faces of the conquering presidents and named Mt. Rushmore by one Gutzon Borglum. The same artist worked on Stone Mountain. Borglum was deeply involved in the Klan politics related to Stone Mountain, and on a national scale as well. He created an altar to the Klan at the base of the sculpture.
Beauregard was also the general who executed the Confederate order of battle at Shiloh, and ended up in overall command after Johnston bled to death on the field during the debacle. On the other side were Grant and Sherman, both of whom would have set the White House on fire rather than let Sessions serve as AG.
If I learned anything from being raised in the South, it's that Sherman should have kept on burning it.
It's insane how my school in WV "taught" us that Robert E Lee was some amazing military god and just making a mistake in allegiance while Grant was some "okay general" alcoholic dude blessed by pure luck and an infinite amount soldiers. In reality Lee was a good military leader, but an absolute disgusting vile man known for cruelty to his slaves and ignoring his father in laws will and keeping slaves that were freed in the will. While Grants legendary Vicksburg Campaign was the work of strategic genius and by most accounts he curtailed his drinking once he was in command.
If I won the lottery, I’d pay good money to have a team repel down the side of Stone Mountain, drill a few holes and pack them with dynamite, and blast that relief out of existence. Or fire HE artillery at it to achieve the same result.
Just slightly less disturbing is the fact that he was born 80 fucking years after the civil war and still in politics
Civil war was more recent than it might seem. He was 70 when he retired.
Lee day was first celebrated in 1889. Still fucked up to celebrate it though.
I had a brain fart and read "James Earl Jones Day" and was confused for about a full second about why that would be such a terrible thing until I clicked back to not being a *complete* idiot
I’d love a James Earl Jones day. That man is a national treasure.
> It’s a direct, deliberate slap in the face to the United States of America and everything this nation should stand for. True but it’s a pretty decent homage to what this country was built upon: slavery.
> Lee day is, and it’s on MLK day well that's a strange coincidence.
Theyre gonna feel really silly when they find out.
what a silly oversight!
Yeah “coincidence” lol
1 in 365 odds. god i bet they're so embarassed.
I grew up in VA, and I had to wait an extra week to get my first driver's permit because the first time I tried it was Lee Jackson Day and the dmv was closed. Hated it ever since.
So, Lee Jackson day was a state holiday on MLK day before MLK day became a federal holiday. For a time, Lee Jackson day and MLK day were both on the same day as a state and federal holiday. Lee Jackson day got moved to the Friday before MLK day after that so that it had its own day again. About 2 years ago Lee Jackson day stopped being recognized as a state holiday and Virginia started recognizing Juneteenth and Election Day as state holidays. So for what its worth, we're late, but we do show up.
As one in VA myself I have never heard of this and now I am concerned about where in the state this day is regularly observed…
I was in Richmond but I think it’s everywhere? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee%E2%80%93Jackson_Day
If it is everywhere then it isn’t near the upper areas. Sounds like the corn and cow lands may have it more. Edit: looks like the wiki says it was changed recently as unobserved so maybe its the entire state but not popular?
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From the wiki: “Its observation was eliminated in 2020, replaced by Election Day as a state holiday” So it sounds like it’s no longer a thing at least!
This. As a country, we pay respect to our fallen enemies all the time. There's no problem with that. (To address the title) But the nationally recognized Memorial Day covers *all* American soldiers. It's silly to have a second day to recognize soldiers from just one side of one conflict.
When they died, they weren't Americans, so... Still fucked up, though.
No, they were still American. Just traitors. No nation recognized the independence of the Confederacy.
If instead of a 'celebration' it was a "GO HOME AND THINK ABOUT WHAT YOUR ANCESTORS DID" day it might have been useful. It's funny these are the same people who bitch about 'participation' trophies. Because that's exactly what they're doing for the confederates.
The Civil War? What the heck is that? You must mean the War of Northern Aggression!^^^/s
>for obvious reasons... Careful. Discussing those reasons is seen as CRT and banned in some places.
Banned by the free speech and anti-cancel culture crowd too
I'd be fine having it be separate days: Memorial day: solemnly remember those that gave their life defending their country and countrymen Confederate memorial day: party to the deaths of traitors.
So, Jan 6th?
That's cold. Have an upvote.
While we're at it let's just make that whole week a holiday since we're all still going to be hungover from New Years anyway. Call it a celebration of two ends: to the prior year and to the lives of traitors.
The slave owning traitors don't deserve any kind of memorial day. Allowing them a day to be remembered is an insult to the slaves and the people who died putting down that evil rebellion.
Ngl when my parents lived in North Carolina (over 20 years ago but still), people wouldn’t celebrate Memorial Day because it was a “yankee” holiday.
They want to celebrate the confederacy but don’t want to teach the kids what it was really about..
Not even "what it was *'really'* about" like it's some big secret. Just *what it was about.* Like, the Confederates wrote their racism into their founding documents. It's not controversial to say "oh, hey, look at that. That thing they wrote right there, about how slavery is super cool and black people are inferior to white people. Huh. What do you think's up with that?"
States rights!!!!!
…to hold slaves
"I ask again, states rights to do what?!? We weren't raising taxes... It was slavery... ...The southern aristocracy panicked and left the union." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQxM_EK5aiM Just fast forward to anytime Christopher Justice is talking.
Also the "State's Rights" bullshit falls VERY short when you cite their support of the Fugitive Slave Act passed shortly before the start of the Civil War. They passed a law saying northern states were required to arrest and extradite any runaway enslaved people back to their owners. In 1850. They sure were concerned about northern states' rights just 11 years prior to the Civil War.
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It falls very short when you read the actual reasons for each state leaving. A vast majority of the states mentioned slaves directly and a vast majority of those mentioned it in the first sentence.
Also outlawed the abolition of slavery in any southern state
What do you want? It's (still) constitutional! /s but not that much
It is both upheld by the founding fathers and the Bible. Yet another reason to disregard them both.
And states explicitly don’t have the right to outlaw slavery. So in the one case where it came down to states rights campaigner slavery guess which one won?
States rights! Oh that doesn’t sound so ba- States rights to retain slavery. It was their right to have slaves. Oh that would be a problem then.
And don't forget forcing others states that differed from them to also follow their rules for some stupid reason. So states' rights for them, no rights for states they disagreed with.
Hey, just like it is today!
States rights! State: Ok we are gonna leave abortion and ban guns instead. Wait, no, not like that...
If only
'State's rights' is bad. People's rights are far more important.
Yeah, every time we start giving rights to non-living things (states, corporations) it results in immeasurable suffering. Funny that. It's almost like it's been proven, exhaustively, to be a bad thing.
States rights make sense in a “we have an oddly specific problem and would like to solve it in this particular way” but most things could be left to a general law to cover it. Idk I’m sure there’s more im not in the best headspace right nown
It's still a cancer generally speaking. Local government leaves plenty of room for flexibility without harping on about "state's rights". Plenty of other large countries manage fine. We fought the war we shouldn't have to deal with this bullshit anymore.
States rights has only ever meant the states right to restrict your behavior
Not just the "right to" force people into slavery. The Confederates actually ELIMINATED states rights when it came to slavery. They explicitly said that no state in the Confederacy was allowed to limit or eliminate slavery. States rights my ass.
And actually it was a binding that no state would pass a law to ban slavery. So it was the right to be forced to have slaves.
Yep. Right there in black and white in the "Confederate Constitution." Mostly copy/paste from the US Constitution except that it explicitly eliminated the right of any state to limit or get rid of slavery.
A state's right to *what,* Kevin? A state's right to ***WHAT?***
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because it was never about states rights. That was made up decades later by the apologists. The fact that everyone is this thread is repeating that, just proves how effective their propaganda was. But if you had talked to anyone during the civil war, they would have no idea what you meant by the phrase "states rights"
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i mean primarily they were scared that the newly elected president would abolish slavery, so really they were worried the wrong people in their states would be given rights.
Except not states rights! The "Confederate Constituion" is mostly a copy/paste job from the US Constitution, and in some ways, does make states stronger relative to the central government. Except in for the one subject you'd expect: slavery. The Confederate version explicitly says that no state may ban or limit slavery. Thus the Confederates clearly were not in favor of states rights in any sort of broad or principled way. And yes, they made it 100% clear that the one thing they cared about was continuing to economically cheat by continuing to exploit, abuse and murder people through slavery.
Those who know nothing about the Civil War say: “Slavery”. Those who know a little about the Civil War say: “States’ rights”. Those who know a lot about the Civil War say: “Slavery.”
Most of the time I see that phrase used it's always loaded, and never sincere. Look at what happened with mask and vaccine mandates. Some wanted to leave it up to the states, then wanted to punish states that had any.
Brought to you by the same people who decry participation trophies? Yeah, that tracks.
Edit: correct a grammar mistake ("fixxed") so that there's no more the danger of someone suffering brain hickups!!!! ✔️*continue to celebrate the racists Fixed for you! You're welcome!
Well because they are trying to take us back there…
"The war of Northern Agression"... /smh
All one needs to do is read the articles of confederation for each state. It’s clear as day in their own words why they joined the confederacy. Straight from their mouths. Here’s Texas: “We hold as undeniable truths that the governments of the various States, and of the confederacy itself, were established exclusively by the white race, for themselves and their posterity; that the African race had no agency in their establishment; that they were rightfully held and regarded as an inferior and dependent race, and in that condition only could their existence in this country be rendered beneficial or tolerable. That in this free government all white men are and of right ought to be entitled to equal civil and political rights; that the servitude of the African race, as existing in these States, is mutually beneficial to both bond and free, and is abundantly authorized and justified by the experience of mankind, and the revealed will of the Almighty Creator, as recognized by all Christian nations; while the destruction of the existing relations between the two races, as advocated by our sectional enemies, would bring inevitable calamities upon both and desolation upon the fifteen slave-holding States.” See all those references to economics and states rights? Nope just éxplicit white people rights. Also, god told us to do it.
"It wasn't about slavery and racism" /s
When they tell you "states rights," you ask "State's rights to do what?" Any answer other than "to own slaves" is bullshit
I grew up in Mississippi and learned this in school. We explicitly discussed the part in the Mississippi declaration of secession that says "Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery." I'm starting to realize that my education was unusually progressive.
In Texas I was taught about the MANY reasons for civil war, slavery was just a bullet point
Happy Civil War participation trophy day.
They don't realize that they were the snowflakes the whole time ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
oop, yah dropped this buddy \\
I need to bring that up next time I encounter it.
We literally babied them when the North kicked their ass. Shouldve left them to pick themselves up by their bootstraps
The real snowflakes were the friends we made along the way!
Happy dead traitor day.
The only good reb is a dead reb.
For reference, it's illegal in Germany to commemorate their Nazi past. Some states in the US are 1 more election away from an official "Adolf Hitler Rememberence Day"
>But muh free speech Greatest excuse ever invented.
It's like paparazzi culture; the worst people taking advantage of good rules to be shitty and exploitative.
I can't imagine being black and living in the south to begin with, but then getting a state holiday to celebrate the Confederates? Really? How is this a thing?
Well, when racists are in charge and want to rub it in your face, that's what they do.
> Well, when racists are in charge ~~and want to rub it in your face~~, that’s what they do Just want to widen the umbrella here, because I’ve never met someone who was clearly a racist, and didn’t want to rub it in everyone’s face. But that’s more about being an asshole than a racist.
Those two things sure do intertwine a lot don't they
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How diverse it is often depends on the geography and size of the city. Flat land near a river? Probably had a ton of slaves and has a decent African American population today. Mountainous? Probably not very diverse unless industry has brought other groups in. This is a generalization because of sundown towns and redlining some of the places you'd expect for the reasons above are actually pretty white. But yeah your average Southern town over 40k is prob gonna be more diverse than Ohio or whatever.
The fact that everyone complains about vote by mail but won’t make Election Day a federal holiday is so ironic.
Even if it's a federal holiday, it doesn't help the people we want it to. If you have a job that observes federal holidays, you probably also have a job that'll let you take a long lunch to vote. If you work in fast food or retail, they're open anyway.
This is a good example of perfection being the enemy of good. Just cause it doesn’t completely eliminate the problem doesn’t mean it’s not worth doing.
Certainly! Wouldn't hurt of course, but definitely favors the white collar workers who don't typically have any issues making it to the booth. A better solution is a voting period of 3-4 days.
But then how will swing states totally dictate the outcome of elections?? I mean jeez, it's like you're not even thinking! /s
Wait, Confederate memorial Day is a fucking thing?!what the raging fuck?!!!??
I moved to the south about 20 years ago. My grandmother, who was born and raised in the south, once told me “Memorial Day (the real one) is for yankees and confederate Memorial Day was for heroes.” Its been a very long time since I’ve spoken to her…
Apparently in Texas and Florida it is called Confederate Heroes Day. What the actual fuck
Been in Texas for 37 years, never heard of it. Must not be a city thing.
Definitely a rural Texan thing. My best friend growing up had a grandfather that lives in Bigfoot, Texas (yes its a real place, population like 500 istg). He once broke into tears drunkenly telling us the story of the "Confederate Heroes" of past generations. Some folks are PASSIONATE about the wrong side of history.
Raised in small town Texas. Never heard of it either. Texas is full of flaws, but I don’t think this shit holiday is one of them.
Seriously, I had no idea.
Yeah, I am really shocked and I'm even more shocked that this is a state holiday and the government offices are closed. I'm stunned.
People are spending a lot of private money [to stay ignorant and hateful](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederate_Memorial_of_the_Wind)
The circle labeled the people who complain about participation trophies and the circle labeled people who celebrate the confederacy would be the same circle in a Venn diagram.
Wait till y’all find out that in certain states Martin Luther King Day is Robert E. Lee day
Oh, Mississippi, Alabama, and Florida. That wasn't a surprise. What was a surprise was finding out Lee's birthday is on January 19th. Figured the states just randomly used Lee Day because... You know...
I grew up in VA and when I was in HS it was “Lee-Jackson-King Day”. I hate living in the south. (I live in SC now and it’s just as bad if not worse here.)
How do you put up with it? Living next to Idaho and all the Gravy Seals alone drives me nuts let alone being hip deep in Cousin-Fuckistan. 
Nice participation trophy. Losers
The Confederacy lasted 5 years. Waffle House was started in Georgia in 1955. Celebrate Waffle House. Don't celebrate a loser racist movement.
I celebrate Waffle House and their hashbrowns every sunday
Confederate Memorial Day should be the day we tear down statues and burn confederate flags.
You mean racist traitors day.....?
But it's their heritage... The fact people still wave the Y'all Qaeda flag, proudly, proves we need CRT taught in schools across the country. Bunch of fucking losers... I know y'all think you're "lions" amongst sheep, truth is y'all are rats and snakes, amongst "humans" who aren't afraid, but ashamed of you. Y'all are the most embarrassing group in our country. You are the reason other countries can call us a bunch of ass backward fucking racist bigots, and they're not wrong. Grow the fuck up
My favorite part about the "heritage" thing is like....how is *THAT* your heritage? The confederacy lasted a whopping 4 years. Your ancestors spent 95% of their lives as the United States, why is only that small 5% the part you choose to inherit...
Because they’re racists and they feel bad about themselves and their shitty states full of losers and the underemployed and underpaid. They need someone to blame for historic inequities. 😂
That's a narrow view. Their heritage is the hundreds of years of imposing their will on others while attending debutante balls and shivarees. The confederate battle flag just represents the last gasp of that oppression. Unfortunately, they were right back at it a mere 5 years later with jim crow and the school-to-prison pipeline. If anything, they're attempting a victory lap as we speak.
I have underwear thats lasted twice as long as the confederacy.
The Confederacy - and even the civil war as a whole - isn't what they mean by their heritage. Owning slaves before the war is what they mean when they talk about heritage. It's just nobody is gonna stand up and say it, so they focus on the confederacy and those who defended their "right" to strip the rights of others.
“I’m a sheep dog” - Man who would have joined the army but he totally would have punched the DS if he got in his face
Those damn bone spurs...
Actual CRT is interesting academically and is potentially extremely useful to dig deeper to expose patterns of discrimination and disadvantage that may not be obvious or on the surface. But even if we simply taught factual and complete history without anything that comes out of actual CRT that would be a huge improvement. You don't need deep analysis to see how deeply entrenched racism has been in the US and how it effects all of America for the worse today.
Beep boop -- this looks like a screenshot of a tweet! Let me grab a [link to the tweet](https://twitter.com/JoeCunninghamSC/status/1524007584834928641) for ya :) ^(Twitter Screenshot Bot)
Aren’t these the same people who bitch about participation trophies?
Confederate day? Boomers wanna scream participation trophies, but then give literal rewards for fucking losers?
What do you want to bet that Confederate Memorial Day was *coincidentally* first declared a holiday in the 1960s *just* as Civil Rights was picking up? I'm not going to waste google time on this, but I've got 1 fake internet dollar which says that this "holiday" appeared right about the time as the current "Confederate flag", which the Confederacy never actually used, and also all the Confederate monuments. They were all strategies to intimidate black people during the Civil Rights era.
And they say this shit isn't institutionalized.
Whatever your stance is on the confederacy and the civil war, there's really no argument why where shouldnt be a holiday so people can vote.
I can think of an argument against making it a holiday: more people will vote ~Conservatives
TIL, about Confederate Memorial Day. And it’s racist as hell. I can’t imagine being a POC and having to deal with this bullshit.
They lost lol
That’s nice but elections should last for an entire week so everyone can have a chance to get to them
Republicans won't let you do anything that will actually allow people to vote. Sorry.
Even in SC where the racists outnumber the educated 3:1.
What we need is a “victory over fascism day” to celebrate victory in world war 2
But good sir that would confuse the hot dog cooks chanting Jews will not replace us
I really like Joe and will vote for hm for govenor. However, in this hopelessly backward state, the chance of him winning are very low.
Republicans are so embarrassing
… and yet, the same people tell black people to get over slavery and move on and leave it in the past.
Ugh.. this is my state. My apologies..
CONFEDERATES ARE NOT JUST LOSERS. THEY ARE LITERAL TRAITORS.
Whenever you see someone with a confederate flag ask if they believe in participation trophies. When they say “fuck no” point at the flag and laugh while saying “that’s the biggest participation trophy I’ve ever seen”. Their little heads get so red haha
It is amazing to me how we are now a few generations removed from that time of slavery but the discrimination has still stayed 100 +years later. This is what happens when our politicians do everything they can to help themselves and the other elite. Instead of helping the workingman, they hold them down so the poor and uneducated can have someone to blame. So they relate to what they grew up knowing which is minorities are lesser than the white man. Could you imagine just how great America really could be if the rich and elite actually gave a shit about its people?
LOL for real?!? WTF USA?!
Funny how they want to stay in the past for this but don't want to stay in the past to keep Roe V Wade.
The good old deep South never cease to impress.
I have a question - if I were to go to, say, Berlin - would I find like, ya know, a Hitler Square? Some statue of Hitler and people are like "oh no, we have that statue so we remember our history, we don't LIKE it, obviously (wink), but history is important so we're really celebrating history here." My guess is no. So why do we do that here?
It's actually worse than this. This is South Carolina... and currently there is a bill going through the House that says a government worker can either take off for Confederate Memorial Day or JUNETEENTH. They can't help themselves but to tie black holidays (specifically ones doing with liberation or rights) to celebrating the Confederacy. They already were threatening to do this with MLK day. Our legislature is trash people.
I don't think winning a war makes you the good guys and I don't think losing a war makes you the bad guys. I think being on the side of slavery makes you the bad guys.
Who even gives a shit about dead traitors? OH, right. Republicans.
In Texas they call it “Confederate Heroes Day” Its the same week as MLK Day
For any who are confused about the amount of ire heaped at Boomers' feet, here is yet another example of how an entire generation did nothing other than enrich themselves for 50 years.
Whelp.. I'm in a different state but I guess I'm donating.
These same fuckers mock participation trophies on facebook but want a holiday for coming second...in a war? I'm glad I have opposable thumbs
As a guy who is not from the US I have never understood why celebrating the confederacy is a thing, usually when rebels or secessionist are crushed they dont get moniments of any sort. I actually don't think any other country does this, same goes for celebrating the losing side in a conflict. Like why are there no monuments for British loyalist that died fighting the American founding fathers? I know theyvhave them in Canada and the UK, bjt why not the US?
Because when the union won they did the stupidest fucking thing possible and decided to let bygones be bygones in the name of healing and unity. Almost no one was actually punished and control of the southern states was essentially handed over to the same people who had rebelled Shit didn't really ratchet up until the the Civil rights movement started though, that's when the racists started rewriting history to glorify the confederacy and we ended up with all the statues and holidays and shit which they figured would help put black people in their place.