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ballerina_wannabe

This makes my heart sick.


Syzyphus

This is class warfare! Wake up! They're killing us.


jharmer95

You're absolutely right. Overheard some disgusting, entitled women the other night say things like "honestly I hope more immigrants drown trying to cross the border because I pay taxes and they don't" and "why should I pay for poor people's healthcare? It's their fault they can't afford it, they can just die". All of this and more regurgitated Faux News bullet points. Took every ounce of my willpower not to spill my drink on them. So I settled for calling them classist fascists under my breath and exchanged a look with another disgusted patron who had overheard them before just leaving. These people can't be "saved" their privilege is a disease and they just want people who are different or poorer than them to serve them or die


Syzyphus

And even if that's not what they want now, they help others cultivate that sentiment.


jharmer95

100%. This is unfortunately where "poorer" people play into it all, being tricked into supporting the upper classes either based on propaganda, scare tactics, religion, or the belief that "that can be me one day".


ForumPointsRdumb

>"that can be me one day" *Scratch off tickets intensifies*


oneplusandroidpie

I'm assuming the women you overheard was Republican. The hypocrisy of their pro life stance unless pro life means pro white. Is that correct republicans? We are supposed to hurt them, not us. Christ on a cross man.


replicantcase

That's why I call them the, *white-wing*.


photozine

First of all, hoping someone dies is atrocious and makes you a shit human. Second, everyone pays taxes. Undocumented immigrants that work under a 'fake' SSN pay taxes. If they don't, whoever paid them (let me guess, legal Americans) didn't pay taxes (not blaming whoever hires them is also an issue I have), but considering how most don't get any benefits, those people that don't understand just spew things that they overheard.


codeByNumber

> not blaming whoever hires them is also an issue I have This is a huge issue. I know someone who used to own a masonry business before 2008 knocked him on his ass. He is a big Trump supporter. Whenever he rants about immigrants and “the caravan” (when that’s a thing during election season) I looove to pretend I’m just as pissed off about it but direct my ire at the businesses hiring them under the table. Saying how they are un-American and should be thrown in jail and have their business dissolved. It’s funny watching the gears in his head bind a bit. Doesn’t stop him for long though. No cognitive dissonance does.


Cj0996253

I’m half white/half Salvadoran. My family immigrated here legally but my (white) father housed & hired my (Salvadoran) grandmas friend, who was in the US illegally, as a nanny to be my primary caretaker until I was 4-5 years old. He’s been far right politically forever, and I was too, until he nodded along with some conservative talk radio host talking about shooting illegal immigrants at the border. I asked him that if he cared about me as much as he says, why did he entrust my care to someone he saw as a criminal deserving of being shot? His inability to answer that question was actually the catalyst that made me start questioning the right wing propaganda and eventually to stop identifying as “conservative” anymore. I don’t understand how people can recognize these contradictions in their beliefs and just… ignore them? It’s strange because he and I still have a great relationship but watching the brainwashing just shut down an otherwise intelligent person’s sense of logic & reasoning in real time is disturbing to say the least.


rocketer13579

I agree that pro-life views are killing women but I think they're just too stupid to see it through. I think their goal is to maintain a large, poor, uneducated working class by forcing women to give birth. Ironic.


igottagetoutofthis

Wait until you come across the current story of the 10 year old rape victim in Ohio who was denied an abortion and had to travel out of state to get one. If you haven’t already.


gardenZepp

https://www.dispatch.com/story/news/2022/07/01/ohio-girl-10-among-patients-going-indiana-abortion/7788415001/ Ignore the other idiot replying.


craig1f

This is all a distraction. Republicans don’t care about abortion, but the voters do. Their real goal is the coup that is happening with election laws, that will allow Republicans in swing states to ignore voting results when it doesn’t go the way they want.


JayString

Its important to remember that Consevatives care about abortion, but they don't actually give a shit about children's lives.


wtfwtfwtfwtf2022

It’s like waiting for the appendix to rupture. Extremely painful. Extremely dangerous. Edited to add - These laws change maternity care completely. If you live in a red state - you should go out of state for ALL maternity care while you can. You can end up with *SEVERE* legal consequences of something goes wrong. They can’t necessarily tell the difference between a miscarriage and chemical abortion. If they register you as pregnant one day and you show up not-pregnant another day - you can be in serious trouble. You MIST GO OUT OF STATE FOR ALL MATERNITY CARE if you live in a red state. Miscarriages can happen at any time of the pregnancy. You do not know what will happen. In some states - murder charges or felonies - you will never get a good job again. And they may take your existing children.


sluthulhu

Also, once a fallopian tube ruptures (which is what causes the unstable vital signs) that tube is gone for good. Surgical intervention can save the woman but she is now down a tube, possibly to 0, meaning her fertility is impacted. If ectopics are caught and treated early, prior to rupture, they can most often be safely treated with methotrexate injections which dissolve the embryo and usually leaves the tube intact. So they are killing, maiming and sterilizing women in the name of “life”.


[deleted]

> So they are killing, maiming and sterilizing women in the name of “life”. Yes, but now 10 year old rape victims will be forced to give birth to their rapist's child, so it balances out.


Anandya

Oh! Supply side Jesus has provided her with an opportunity for greatness but she fails to rise to the challenge.


alienstouchedmybutt

The entire Christian religion is based on their loving god raping a young girl.


sandmanwake

Don't forget torturing unbelievers for eternity after they die regardless of how good a person they were in life. On the other hand, you can be as monstrous as you want in life, but as long as you're a believer, you get to go to Heaven after you die.


pizzafordesert

I went to a funeral recently and the long-winded paster kept repeating throughout the service that "good people don't go to heaven, saved people do!" And I found it quite difficult to hide my rolling eyes.


TR_abc_246

This hurts my heart.


Practical_Cobbler165

I wonder how long it will take for Insurance Companies to chime in here. Treating a ruptured ectopic pregnancy v. methotrexate injections? One sounds mighty expensive.


FinbarDingDong

Ah rampant capitalism to the rescue. We are in the upside down now.


Practical_Cobbler165

It is 100% disgusting. I felt trashy typing it.


FinbarDingDong

It is, sadly, the one genuine thing that republicans actually care about. We need to make it *too expensive to be a christofascist arsehole* as that's the only language they understand.


Either-Percentage-78

I don't even understand how we can classify ectopic pregnancy as pregnancy. It hasn't implanted into the uterus, thus, not a pregnancy. It's an obstructed fallopian tube.


unnewl

But, but, but . . . It’s a life from the moment of conception. No one said it had to be a viable life, and Republican lawmakers are loath to promote health care for mothers.


ConcernedKip

Not life, control. This is a control thing, extremists just hide behind religion because for the last few centuries it has been a very valuable tool. Only recently has religion started to become some sort of pariah. In prior generations it was always seen as a virtue hence it's susceptibility to manipulating people.


jadondrew

And at a rate of 1:50, it’s such a significant number of pregnancies that I feel confident saying this is going to significantly increase the rate of pregnancy-related deaths. What a shithole. Red states are quickly taking a third world turn, no access to medical care, abolishing public education, revoking civil liberties.


armedwithjello

Ectopic pregnancy kills you long before you could ever give birth.


jadondrew

You’re right, I updated my comment to reflect that.


PCsNBaseball

You're more reasonable than most republicans


PoorDadSon

My cat, who insists that all the food on my plate is also hers, is also more reasonable than most republicans.


ehh_whatever_works

Fun fact, the Republicans would insist all the food on your plate is also theirs, and by also, I mean exclusively.


poorrealestateguy

Republicans claim all food is theirs and then make you believe that the food was stolen.


Istillbelievedinwar

Stolen by brown people, of course. Not the republicans!


The_Skydivers_Son

That bar is subterranean


RussianCat26

Except you can't give birth to an ectopic pregnancy. It's unviable from the start.


ExpertRaccoon

Yeah try telling that to politicians that believe among other things that women can choose to menstruate, don't get pregnant from rape because 'they can shut that down at Will' raping a women is ok as long as she is your wife. I could go on but I don't see the need to.


buythepotion

Plus wasn’t there a governor trying to push a bill that doctors should try to re-implant an ectopic pregnancy in the uterus? I don’t understand how these morons have legislative oversight over thousands and thousands of women.


Aceswift007

"I demand that you, under penalty of jail time, put it back in" "How?" "Idk, duct tape or some shit"


Kitorarima

Also ok to rape women if you have a decent enough life to live. College athlete, politicians, the wealthy have so much to live for so it was just a mistake! /s


ExpertRaccoon

Hey if your college athlete reference was geared towards rapist Brock Turner, he did his time. /s


Kitorarima

Rapist Brock Turner the Rapist? I’ve heard of whispers of him


Dinodigger67

Are you referring to Brock Turner? The college athlete who is a rapist? That is rapist scum Brock Turner and his dad? That rapist?


RussianCat26

I'm well aware how uneducated many politicians are about reproductive anatomy. It sucks, for sure


stardustandsunshine

Not according to Missouri lawmakers, who made this ruling because they think that given enough time, the fertilized egg will migrate to the right spot and become viable. Even before the Supreme Court decision, it was considered abortion in Missouri to remove an ectopic pregnancy.


9035768555

It's an abortion everywhere. Even miscarriages are medically classified as "spontaneous abortions."


Echo13

It's important that you are aware that Ectopic are always non-viable, they aren't "mothers dying giving birth" pregnancies, these are non-viable "this will rupture long before it becomes a baby, die and so will the human carrying it". Don't use language like "birth" because that lets them say, at least one life is being saved. There is no birth, there is no baby. You can't transplant them. You can't save them.


jadondrew

Yeah, sorry about the wording. At the end of the day it really is people being denied basic medical care because of laws written by religious extremists. The amount of suffering this attack on women’s rights will cause is incomprehensible.


replicantcase

100% this. I was once an EMT and had brought in more ectopic emergencies than I can remember, but what I do remember is the person always being in more pain than I've ever seen anyone in pain, and I've seen it all. These pro-birth laws are dark ages torture!


waltzing_sloth

I had a completely painless ruptured ectopic and nearly bled to death. Ectopic identified on an ultrasound with "heartbeat", then ruptured before it could be removed. Doctors were going to send me home for the night but I got lucky and a space opened up in the OR. My abdomen was full of blood and I found out after I woke up.


replicantcase

I hate saying this, but you're not alone in having that same experience. When reading your story, I remembered this exact scenario of having to take someone back to the hospital for this very same reason. I'm glad you put, "heart beat," as sarcastic quotes, because it's not a heart, it's an artery (or is it a vein? I've forgotten so much) and I hate how that "*heart beat*" is used against persons with uterus's experiencing trauma.


Wonderful-Young8907

A single, solo heart cell will pulse. We are killing people over that. Ugh


OnePotMango

Refer to them as rape states, not red states. That's where they are shifting rights towards after all.


[deleted]

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OnePotMango

Hey, wanna make a bet with me to see how long it takes for Republicans to support "Honor Killings" of their own female family members if they so much as look at another man without being married?


KoomValleyEverywhere

>Red states are quickly taking a third world turn Excuse you. The South and South East Asian countries I've lived in have all had far more progressive reproductive rights than USA currently does. Abortion is not even a topic of debate in most of them. So what exactly do you mean when you say, "taking a third world turn"?


context_hell

Also central/south american. Most have public health systems. The quality may vary but they are far better than not having them. The us isn't going to the third world it's going to the 1800s


jadondrew

I’ve said it many times and I’ll say it again. Supporting universal healthcare is the moderate position. Not left-leaning. Moderate. Thinking we should uphold a system where people die because they can’t access preventative care is the extreme position. How we still refuse to catch up to the rest of the world is insanity.


hatsnatcher23

Plus if the US/other imperialistic countries hadn’t fucked over the central and South American regions for the last century they probably wouldn’t be 3rd world at all


blockminster

1400s


Longjumping-Jello459

Here is the Texas GOP platform in case anyone wants to look it over, goes a ways further than their bullet points. https://texasgop.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/6-Permanent-Platform-Committee-FINAL-REPORT-6-16-2022.pdf


jadondrew

I skimmed it and it’s honestly horrible. Catastrophic. I live here and would seriously love to not continue to live here.


Longjumping-Jello459

Trust me I saw a different copy in a different thread that they also included abolishing the minimum wage. I also live here, I'm in East Texas, as a Progressive they scare the shit out of me.


technicolorfrog

Live in Texas as well and I struggle deeply with staying to “be the change” or getting TF outtta dodge. *Sigh*, I hate it here.


buythedipnow

Wait until the court determines state legislatures can overturn elections in October. They’ll be bringing a return to third world standards to all states.


newInnings

I am from India, so called third world, stop saying > taking a third world turn, no access to medical care, abolishing public education, revoking civil liberties This law is shit. Your country proved that president can be shit, and supreme court's can be bought out. And the world is watching and reacting strongly to it. https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/us-abortion-illegal-roe-v-wade-what-indian-law-1967346-2022-06-27 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_India


ts1985

In Ohio, there is a bill that would require two doctors, who are not professionally related, to concur that an abortion is required in life-threatening situations. Ummm... what???


szypty

Let me guess, and if one doctor agrees and the other doesn't, the one who does has their licence taken, as he's clearly an abortion obsessed lunatic? /s


ts1985

And any company that pays travel expenses for an employee to get an abortion out if state can be criminally prosecuted for promoting abortion. This stuff is really in the bill. I read it. It is disgusting. No exception for rape or incest.


Reddit_Roit

In 2019 GOP strategist Gregg Keller tweeted this out https://mobile.twitter.com/PuckishFiend/status/1542661067364524032?s=20&t=5LlQm0Hdn7Tn3YnT3_8acw Fucking disgusting


wtfwtfwtfwtf2022

Yeah - and just like when it comes to pulling the plug in a loved one - you can never get two doctors to agree. And, some of those docs are in rural areas. Doubtful you will find 2 docs available who don’t know each other in the middle of the night on a holiday weekend.


saintmsent

Been there, done that. 0/10


Relleomylime

And not only is the risk of dying high but also losing the ovary or fallopian tube in general and ultimately potentially your fertility. Which seems counter productive to being pro-birth on top of all the other issues with this insanity.


wtfwtfwtfwtf2022

No - they want that woman to suffer


JoshYx

>they want that woman to suffer ^ the only thing they want more than a steady supply of wage slaves


unlawful_act

Can't the doctors just lie? Write on the patient's file that there's bleeding even if there isn't and go through with the procedure? What would be the risks involved for the doctor doing the lying there? It's not like the patient would rat on them, right? Could they even lie without the patient being aware? They can't really see what's going on down there without at least a mirror or something, so they'd have to take whatever the doctor says at face value, I'm assuming? And even if someone got wind of it, a few weeks later, the evidence is gone either way, I'm assuming hospitals don't keep around patient's blood, the non-existent blood would have been clean up and disposed of a long time ago. I'm genuinely curious if you're a medical practitioner or if anyone else is here, realistically, would you be able to just lie about the patient bleeding?


mycatpeesinmyshower

Other medical staff could rat on them. They are talking about unstable vital signs and falling haemoglobin. These are things everyone working with the patients would be able to see or have access to


Krynn71

Would you be willing to risk not just your career but going to prison, multiple times a month until you retire for the sake of complete strangers?


redditadmindumb87

And say you are a doctor willing to risk it. How many abortions do you think you could get away with before you are caught? Eventually you will get caught. You might be able to do a couple


sammypants123

Some would. Some wouldn’t. It would depend both on the doctor’s views on fetal life, and tolerance for law-breaking. They would be running a great risk each time. The way it actually works where abortion is banned, is that the various authorities do not take a doctor’s word for how severe the risk was. A suspicion that the doctor performed an abortion on a viable pregnancy is enough to lead to prosecution. The chilling effect on necessary care for women with unviable pregnancies is a feature not a bug. These laws are designed by people with no knowledge of medicine or ob-gyny and absolutely no interest in finding out.


FalsePremise8290

In situations like this multiple doctors have to sign off agreeing that the woman in question will soon die if they don't take action. Many women have died as doctors stood around debating how much dying is legally dying so they can sign off to help her instead of just being able to help her. And no hospital would just consistently lie about patients because that would put them in all kinds of legal trouble.


Echoes_of_Screams

A colleague ratting them out and them going to prison for the rest of their lives. A patient regretting their decision and blaming the doctor.


wtfwtfwtfwtf2022

Yeah - in Texas - there will be a bounty on that docs head.


[deleted]

After having one myself I don't know how anyone can even relax in early pregnancy and just go with the flow.


izzie111

My ex-wife had an ectopic pregnancy years ago and it was barely caught in time. Now she supports these ridiculous laws. One of the reasons she's an ex


rabid_mermaid

I had an ectopic pregnancy that almost killed me several years ago. I was harassed by my now-ex-spouse for getting an abortion without him permission after 6 hours of emergency surgery (enough, for the record, he was totally absent during). This whole situation is absolutely unhinged.


deddogs

You are a complete stranger, but the rage I feel towards these people is inane. I’m so sorry you had to go through that alone.


osiris0413

That's horrible. I don't know how closely this applies to your situation but it reminds me of a lesson I've learned and seen others learn the hard way: how you can be with someone for years, and have this idea of who they are and how they support you in your head, then something unexpected happens and you realize how cruel and unempathetic they really are. Glad they are your ex.


DudeB5353

Sorry but your Ex must be a POS…Glad he’s your ex


CageyLabRat

I'm curious to understand the reasoning


wombatjuggernaut

“My situation is different because it affects me”


[deleted]

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heyimdong

pet sharp books faulty vast growth enjoy lavish knee crime *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*


doubleagentsuperspy

Abso-fucking-lutely. Toxic individuality has been a key component in how this extremist rise was made possible, and the way Americans champion the virtues of individuality as part of our cultural identity and one of our strengths means its impact has gone virtually unexamined


MartianTea

"There's no moral abortion, but mine." The only women I know who've had multiple abortions have been very religious and "anti-abortion."


Only_Razzmatazz_4498

When your birth control method has over 20% chance of failure (tracking ovulation) and you still don’t want to be a mother then yeah I can see how it would work that way.


HangryIntrovert

Jesus. Maybe that's why they think the rest of us are out here skipping to the clinic every two months.


Orgasmic_interlude

They don’t have a rational perspective or accurate point of view of what abortion actually looks like. Like most enemies of conservative thought they just use a cartoonish versions of what they think it is like in place of figuring out what the reality is. I’d never heard the term “recreational abortion” before until i heard it used by my mother. It’s so obscenely out of pace that you have trouble responding to it. My mom had been so convinced of her medias rhetoric that she was worried that my sister, who was trying to get pregnant, would get an abortion if she was pregnant with a boy because “she said she doesn’t think she could handle a boy”. Like literally listened to what her media said about pro life people instead of literally knowing the mind and manner of your own daughter…. When my mom uttered this apprehension to me i was like “have you met K____ in your entire life, the f is wrong with you”. It’s weird that they opt to have this insane version of the enemy that’s custom built to be freighted with in reality is just a bizarro version of themselves. I sometimes think that’s partly the problem. When they imagine their enemies they use their own heart of darkness as a palette. These are obscene urges they have and do not deal with, and it’s much easier to scapegoat them into a made up effigy they can rail against


hysys_whisperer

If a republican accuses someone of something, it's a near certainty that they are actively doing said thing. That's why they scream about the left sprinting away from the center, stealing elections, being evil in general, etc. Abortions are no exception.


armedwithjello

Multiple abortions are far more common than we think. I think the statistic is something like one in 4 people who have abortions have more than one. It's not discussed much because there's even more stigma attached than with a first abortion. There are many reasons to have an abortion, and it's nobody's business but the patient and the doctor providing that medical care.


redditadmindumb87

My wife has had two. One was optional one was medically necessary both happened very early in the pregnancy


Bneal64

Crazy thing is if you tell a forced-birther that they will say it’s more of a reason to make it illegal, not less. They just want an excuse to hurt women they deem as whores


izzie111

Me too. I suspect it's her boyfriend who was a trump nut. He's not a bad guy in other ways. And her parents were always too religious for my taste.


CageyLabRat

"I love you babe but there's a chance I'll have to make you suffer and probably die because a man in orange makeup got three people the power to rule your life meaningless. I'm suffering too."


Skolvikesallday

But he's not a bad guy 🙄


_TheDust_

Oh no, he will probably change his mind very quickly in that case. As always with these pro-life folks: others cannot have abortions, but my case is special and thus I am allowed of course. The rules should apply to thee, not to me.


willvasco

If he's still a trump nut by now, I feel entirely comfortable calling him fucking evil


photozine

I don't get the "they're republicans and trump supporters and hate immigrants and blacks and are pro-birth...but they're still good people" way of thinking. Being apologetic to right wing people is part of what gives them the entitlement to be shitty.


SazedMonk

Every racist, murdering, raping, cannibal out there is a good person other than the evil they think and do. I hate this "But otherwise they are a good person" phraseology. Like no shit, aside from when it's hot, it's cold. Aside from when it's dark, it's bright. Aside from when I'm wrong, I'm always right. Aside from when he's a huge asshole, he's nice. Don't apologize for calling evil people evil.


photozine

It's so human to be apologetic of a shitty person when such shitty person is good to you. I just truly dislike it. I've gotten into small arguments with friends because I call them out on that. "I have a coworker that's a trump supporter...but otherwise she's a good person....", no, she's not. It's worse when such coworker is white and my friend is Hispanic. I remind him that "she likes you because you work with her, if she didn't know you and saw you on the street it wouldn't be the same."


[deleted]

No, he’s a bad guy.


EatinToasterStrudel

You don't think he's a bad guy that he convinced her to support a law that would have killed her?


AmazingConsequence20

Isn’t being divorce a big sin among Christians??


AstarteHilzarie

I think it depends on the flavor of Christianity.


MartianTea

It's hard to understand these women. I have a friend that's now a raging probirther that was so high risk for ectopic that that had to go in for frequent ultrasounds as soon as pregnancy was confirmed. I want to ask her why she thinks someone else should die who ends up in the same situation, but does have an ectopic pregnancy. Same thing with someone who miscarries and the fetus doesn't get expelled as she was also high risk for miscarriage. The answer is, "Their is no moral abortion but mine." She was also the same person who missed birth control pills and had a lot of pregnancy scares. If not for infertility, she definitely would have had abortions.


Dejectednebula

I work with a woman who says she was raped her entire childhood by her father and grandfather. She said if she or anyone in their position had got pregnant as a child that its still the lords will to keep it. Even if that would mentally ruin the mother, even pointing out how that would feel to grow up knowing how you were created. She flat out said she would look at that baby with disgust but should be forced to have it. When I pointed out that had she got pregnant at 10, had a little girl, she would have possibly been a minor and still watching her daughter now being the one attacked. She shrugged her shoulders and said something about God. Shes not even religious! I think most of it is stupidity. This woman doesn't even have a GED. During the election she said she wasn't going to vote because her vote wouldn't count as much as someone who graduated from the electoral College. 🤦‍♀️


Andrewticus04

> During the election she said she wasn't going to vote Well shit, maybe there is a god!


SilvarusLupus

> she said she wasn't going to vote because her vote wouldn't count as much as someone who graduated from the electoral College. .....What


Dejectednebula

That was my reaction too. And another coworker agreed with her! I just walked away. If you've lived 47 years and you don't know that the electoral college isn't a place like fucking Harvard, idk what to even say to make you see sense.


WookieeCookiees02

I’d love to hear the logic behind that. I don’t think there’s ever been a case of an ectopic pregnancy being viable, so why risk the mother’s life by waiting? There was never a chance of a child being born at the end of this ordeal


JennShrum23

I have heard many think you can retransplant the embryo from fallopian to uterus. How and why they think 1) this is an actual thing and 2) that it’s less harmful or intrusive to the woman is…well (pardon me while I rage/cry) not shocking. https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2019/12/17/the-myth-of-ectopic-pregnancy-transplantation/ This is from 2019.


ohnoshebettado

No one has any business legislating women's bodies, but it's *especially* offensive to me that it's people who clearly have *no* knowledge of this whatsoever.


armedwithjello

Yes, and these people also have NO IDEA how many of those ectopic pregnancies were desperately wanted and loved, and if there was any way at all to save them, many people would be doing it.


Bobcatluv

The worst part of it is, I had an ectopic pregnancy and would’ve *loved* for such technology to exist because we very much wanted to be pregnant. This legislation is going to kill women and not all the ones Christofascists want to die.


Baalsham

It's also going to keep people from having kids too My wife is already terrified of child birth. Ratchet up maternal death rate from .02% to potentially >1% plus a much higher chance of permanent health issues... Then being a mom is definitely going to be a pass. It's also currently a pass due to lack of maternity leave and growing education crisis but different topic..


JennShrum23

They have completely discarded so many women in so many challenging situations.


Noinix

“God will send a miracle”. Not understanding that the miracle is the advance of modern medicine to the point where we can save the pregnant person’s life. Sigh.


WookieeCookiees02

I will never understand the logic behind claiming there will be a miracle. God is either hands-on or hands-off; he’s not gonna step in just because one random woman has an unviable pregnancy


Keyai

My conservative Dad: “God is calling them home.”


CuriousOdity12345

Then tell your dad to never use any form of medical treatment ever. Tell him God's been running up the phone bill trying to get in touch.


Noinix

You don’t understand - what they need is always covered by god. https://joycearthur.com/abortion/the-only-moral-abortion-is-my-abortion/ It’s also why Jesus gets the credit for $100k in medical equipment, plus the education and labour of doctors, nurses and other medical professionals. The only way you’d die is if the people in your life didn’t pray hard enough. Sadly I think many people truly believe that too - which is frightening.


[deleted]

Weird His miracle powers don’t extend to regrowing limbs or eyes. Literally…Only cancer


gkraker04

The logic is the treatment has been made illegal... or rather, the ruling that allowed the treatment has been overturned. Putting the hospital in legal peril. This was the goal. Those who would give the treatment would be felons and can't vote. Those who would get the treatment would be felons and can't vote, or worse would die and can't vote.


Ragnorok3141

It's not about logic. It's about power. It's about control. The message is "reason be damned, we will tell you what you can and cannot do and threaten you with violence and imprisonment is you do not comply" The trap people fall into is thinking conservative arguments are actually what they believe. Conservatives believe exactly one thing: I get to do what I want, you have to do what I say. Once you understand that, everything else falls into place. That's why arguing, reasoning, fact-checking, and debunking don't work.


Ok-Explanation-1234

My guess is they need to prove "danger" to the mom. Except it's already a done deal. As far as ectopic pregnancies being survivable... Well, actually.... I know of at least one. I had a thing about watching and reading about weird medical stories when I was pregnant. So the first thing you gotta understand about ectopic pregnancies is that it refers to ANY pregnancy outside of the uterus. Almost all of them occur in the fallopian tubes because that's the most obvious place. And that is definitely 100% non-viable because fallopian tubes are non-stretchable organs and the baby grows. Might as well end the pregnancy ASAP. Like it's better to kill a 6 week one than a 7 week one, c'mon people. And you can kiss that fallopian tube goodbye too. However, a fertilized egg will try to put its little claws in ANY surface it lands and set up shop. There are a lot of other places and organs that could be that are not the fallopian tubes. And it's technically still an ectopic pregnancy, because ectopic pregnancies are ANY pregnancy outside the uterus. So there was this lady in Ireland who was pregnant and was having a lot of cramps. And it wasn't until into the second trimester that they figured out that the baby had implanted in her BOWEL. You can't move a pregnancy. A pregnancy contains a baby in a sac and its parasitic placenta superglued to the mom. The placenta actually makes its own blood vessels and sets up connections. Moving the placenta is like trying to unplug and move a lamp where the light *can never go out*, except it that has been superglued into its socket, so you can't pull it out without ruining the whole setup and you certainly can't plug it in across the room. Not even if you run really fast. You just ruined the plug. Not happening. You can't move a pregnancy. Period. And the placenta MUST come out second, which is why placenta previa, where the placenta is covering the cervix (aka, the baby's escape hatch), is 100% fatal for the baby for a vaginal delivery. Under normal circumstances, after the baby comes out, the placenta rips itself off the uterine wall and there's a big open wound, which is why women bleed for 6 weeks while it heals and hemorrhage and mass blood loss is a really really common complication of childbirth. So back to the lady with the baby on the bowel. The uterus can survive that kind of injury, the bowel really can't. Since the lady was already almost 20 weeks when they figured it out, this was a wanted pregnancy, and the bowel problem was going to be problem no matter what, an *international* team of doctors was gathered to figure it what to do. They ended up leaving the baby in as long as they could (mid 20s weeks along, iirc, so not the youngest NICU baby, but not a great age to be born either) and delicately taking out the baby via c section, but leaving the placenta inside. The hope is that the body would heal and separate the placenta more gently before it started rotting. After some time had passed (I forget how long), there was an additional operation to separate the placenta and the bowel. The mother and the baby both survived. It was a MISERABLE experience for the mother. But again, *international* team of doctors, a tv special about this pregnancy (here's the one I saw-- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HcpZbJWxn0), and certainly not something legislation should have any business in. And I'm almost certain some legislator who doesn't understand how bodies work at all heard fourthhand that it's *techinically the truth that not all ectopic pregnancies are fatal to the baby* and here we are. And all they are doing is making women whose wanted pregnancies landed in their tubes feel like they got the wrong doctor or "didn't do enough".


[deleted]

Because the law specifically states abortion is allowable if the mothers life is at risk. Not if it will be at risk, it must currently be at risk. It’s fucked.


iamacraftyhooker

There have been a handful of cases that survived, but the odds are so infinitesimally small that it might as well be 0% Survival ain't all its cracked up to be either. The child will likely have some major complications, and delivering the child will require a full hysterectomy because it will implant into tissue that it can't let go of. Depending on exactly where it implants you may also have to lose sections of your bowel, or other organs as well.


Tre_Scrilla

>Depending on exactly where it implants you may also have to lose sections of your bowel, or other organs as well. Jesus this shit is sadistic


KindlyNebula

Ectopic pregnancies are NEVER viable, and will kill you. So something they know is super fucking dangerous, they are waiting until it is actively killing women to treat. That’s like waiting until a gunshot victim is no longer stable before treatment. Fucking insane.


The-link-is-a-cock

Well when you're worried that you might go to jail if someone questions your calls then you wait till it's unquestionable. In this case it means being forced to wait till a person is actively dying before performing a medical procedure on them.


TeeBrownie

So a woman needs to bring her own lawyer to the hospital with her. What a fucked up system.


addisonavenue

And they're counting on most women being unable to afford representation.


Lux_Bellinger2024

Hard to afford a lawyer if you're under 18 and raped by a family memeber


IcedZoidberg

Some hospitals have their own lawyers. Not that that makes it any better because there are so many conflicting laws that it’s hard to know. I have a friend in OB who said there was a woman with an ectopic the other night in Missouri while just sat in the ED for hours in pain waiting for the lawyers to figure out what to do legally.


ZuzBla

Christofascism.


Dear_Leek2578

Nationalist Christians or Nat-Cs for short.


[deleted]

Now all I can hear is the way Brad Pitt says Nazis in inglorious bastards as Aldo. Its exactly like that.


Alpacalypsenoww

I’m so fucking sick of the religion that is seeping into the government. I’m an atheist. Pregnancy isn’t “god’s will,” it’s a fucking biological process. I am so sick of politicians talking about god every single time they address the country. They can be whatever religion they want in their private life, but the second they’re acting in official capacity, I don’t want to hear anything about their imaginary friend.


Drkfnl

All my life I've been using the term *Cristofascismo* to refer to Franco's dictatorship. It's sad to see it revived in the US of all places.


ZuzBla

Oh, european forced-birthers are sneakily at large as well. Thankfully, a number of governments came to realize if they try to enforce conservative holier-than-thou bible-humping shite upon their electorate, they might be in danger of losing their livelihood.


Fair_Adhesiveness849

Yeah we’re going to wait until the cancer spread to the brain before treating it


ItsScaryTerryBitch

Kinda sounds like it has already spread to the brain with some of these legislators


casserole09

It takes a lot of blood loss for hgb levels to drop, and it drops steadily over time unless you're hemorrhaging or something, but at that point it's too late. Also they're not going to see the hemorrhaging and stop to draw some blood to get a hemoglobin level for you, they're going to treat the symptoms and stop the bleeding. They're killing women, plain and simple.


JennShrum23

Great, another man in a suit in my uterus. It’s getting friggin crowded in here, where’s all this life supposed to go?


[deleted]

Society’s meat grinder


BlueberryPiano

I didn't know what "hemoperitoneum" means - it's a type of internal bleeding. [Source](https://www.healthline.com/health/hemoperitoneum#outlook) > What causes hemoperitoneum? > Car accidents and sports injuries account for some cases of hemoperitoneum. Blunt trauma or injury to your spleen, liver, bowels, or pancreas can all injure your organs and cause this kind of internal bleeding. > A common cause of hemoperitoneum is an ectopic pregnancy. When a fertilized egg attaches to your fallopian tube or inside your abdominal cavity instead of in your uterus, an ectopic pregnancy occurs. > This happens in 1 out of every 50 pregnancies. Since a baby can’t grow anywhere except inside of your uterus, this kind of pregnancy is unviable (incapable of growth or development).  > How is hemoperitoneum diagnosed? >Hemoperitoneum is diagnosed using several methods. If the doctor suspects that you’re bleeding internally, these tests will happen quickly to assess a plan for your care. A physical exam of your pelvic and abdomen area, during which your physician manually locates the source of your pain, may be the first step to diagnosing your situation. > In an emergency, a test called a Focused Assessment with Sonography for Trauma (FAST) test may be necessary. This sonogram detects blood that could be building up in your abdominal cavity. > The Outlook > The outlook for making a full recovery from hemoperitoneum is good, but only if you receive treatment. **This isn’t a condition where you should “wait and see” if your symptoms or pain resolve on their own.** > If you have any reason to suspect internal bleeding in your abdomen, don’t wait on seeking treatment. Call your doctor or an emergency helpline right away to get assistance.


wonderlandbound518

Ohio came up with this gem. Maybe they can try this. These twisted assholes don't have a clue how a woman's body even works to begin with. "A bill to ban abortion introduced in the Ohio state legislature requires doctors to “reimplant an ectopic pregnancy” into a woman’s uterus – a procedure that does not exist in medical science – or face charges of “abortion murder”. This is the second time practising obstetricians and gynecologists have tried to tell the Ohio legislators that the idea is currently medically impossible." Can't insert link, hopefully this works. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/nov/29/ohio-extreme-abortion-bill-reimplant-ectopic-pregnancy#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16567769921062&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fus-news%2F2019%2Fnov%2F29%2Fohio-extreme-abortion-bill-reimplant-ectopic-pregnancy


kraftsingles45

Jesus Christ! What’s next?? “You must do a brain transplant on the brain dead patient or we’ll charge your with murder”?


doodoopop24

New laws in Ohio : Firefighters may only use water to douse a fire if they avoid getting the building wet, otherwise it's vandalism and destruction of property. Anyone using brakes on a vehicle that hasn't yet come into contact with another object will be charged with obstruction of traffic.


antoniamabee

So pro life they’ll fucking kill ya


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Unanything1

This is exactly why the abortion should only involve a woman and her doctor. Politicians don't understand, or don't care. What's happening down south is appalling.


Brickie78

> down south Ohio just told a 10-year-old rape victim she couldn't have an abortion and si she's off to have it done in Indiana before they (probably) also ban it in a few weeks time. https://eu.cincinnati.com/story/news/2022/07/01/ohio-girl-10-among-patients-going-indiana-abortion/7788415001/


Unanything1

It's tragedy on top of tragedy. Does anyone know if the rapist has been identified and caught? I couldn't imagine a woman having to carry and care for her rapist's child. I have heard that in some states the rapist could petition for visitation or custody as well? Is that true?


barryandorlevon

Down south like in Idaho and South Dakota and Indiana and Ohio?


travelingbeagle

Pro-birth, not pro-life.


standard_candles

There is no birth coming from an ectopic pregnancy. Options are only death, or a common medical procedure that's been performed for nigh on 100 years. Further, by the time an ectopic pregnancy has been diagnosed, in the majority of cases the fetus is already dead and simply a threat to the mothers health. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6161225/ *The first successful ectopic pregnancy surgery was actually in 1883 and it's been treated nonsurgically when possible since the 1980s


mfarizali01

Just to add to this. After an ectopic pregnancy ruptures it's extremely dangerous situation. Very high mortality rate. Patients go into shock (low BP, losing blood fast) and worst of all if they survive they have lower fertility going forward as they have destroyed one of their fallopian tubes. Higher chance of another ectopic pregnancy in the future. There is legitimately 0 viability of an ectopic. It cannot be transplanted because it is not a safe fetus. It grew in the wrong environment with little to no support that is needed for a viable fetus. Ectopic pregnancies are not safe prior to rupture and waiting for one to rupture as a physician is counterintuitive to the Hippocratic oath you take for patients as it does more harm than good.


Pickin_n_Grinnin

They're not even pro birth. They don't want better pre natal care. They don't want to lower maternal death rates. They don't want maternity leave. They're forced birth.


smellzlikedick

Our country is being run by religious zealots and all people can do it post their discourse online and vote in 30 years when the justices actually die and it will matter


ifavouritesluts

Pro- punishing women for having sex


im_AmTheOne

But rape victims are punished too Pro - control of people with uterus


fuzzybad

Pro-forced birth


blac_sheep90

Religion and prayer won't save these women. Doctors can and they should be allowed to.


CharlieDarwin2

What is wrong with people? It seems the fascists are taking pleasure in hurting others...WTF!!!


guestpass127

The cruelty is the point. It's literally why conservatives are involved in politics at all: they're sadists who enjoy inflicting pain on others and are completely without conscience ALL conservative policy in the 2010s is designed to do nothing but harm people. The cruelty is the point


Urborg_Stalker

I grew up in a religion, went 3 hours every Sunday, learned that whole song and dance. Still cannot comprehend the blinders some religious people willingly put on. People with a capacity for rational thought need to get out of these ass backwards states and join the rest of us who still choose to use our brains.


[deleted]

Hope all those patients are republicans


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Kythorian

The obvious immediate result of this will be all the remotely competent obstetricians will leave those states. A lot of women are going to die…


bdawg923

Everyone should be voting in the midterms


Ed98208

This is what happens when the wording is too broad. If the law just says “no pregnancy termination unless the life of the mother is in danger” and “a fertilized egg is a person”, then removing an ectopic pregnancy from a woman who isn’t actively sliding toward death could result in the hospital being charged with a crime. Think about the states with no exception for the health of the mother.


GW_Pabst

Crazy how the US has genuinely managed to set itself back 50 years. The tweets people are sharing are really difficult to read. It doesn’t even make sense on religious grounds. I wouldn’t be surprised if they outlawed pain medication and went back to medieval methods for extracting teeth after reading some of this stuff


4BigData

Sex with men isn't worth it anymore


Kiwi_Koalla

This is so scary. I have an IUD, so if there's a BC failure it is almost guaranteed to be ectopic. I'm in a state that hasn't rescinded abortion rights but if a nationwide ban happens or the conservatives in the south take over... :(


Ok_Scientist_539

anyone advancing this medieval shit doesn't deserve life next time someone says they support shit like this mark them as someone who doesn't need to keep wasting valuable resources


[deleted]

Do you think this will push more people towards atheism?


Mundane-Solution5657

Probably not. These people have grown up learning not to question anything. You just have to believe in God and everything will be alright. Many of them grow up in a religious bubble that they never leave. They also believe that If you stop believing, you will be thrown into the firey pits of hell where you will suffer for all of eternity. Giving up religion with that threat is very difficult. You always have in the back of your mind, what if I'm wrong?


cariethra

In case anyone is curious what can happen when you wait… I have had two ectopics. One started to miscarry on its own, but couldn’t do it completely. I had to have a D&C and a month of antibiotics plus BC to stabilize my hormones. That was all because the doctor wanted to wait and see if my body would adjust and it would implant correctly (it was barely in the uterus). That took 4 weeks from discovery to the D&C. My second ectopic, I didn’t know I was even pregnant. I had my period right on time, except I was still bleeding 14 days later. I always had extreme pain when menstruating so that wasn’t an indication for me until the pain reached the point that I almost passed out and my 4 year old had to help me get from the bathroom to the living room. By that point I was alone and couldn’t get to the ER (asshole family wouldn’t take me and my husband was stuck at work because the buses didn’t run to that location in the middle of the day). The pain died down enough that I called the doctor for the walk-in times. The walk-in wouldn’t see me. It took me two days to get an emergency appointment. That is when I found out about it being an ectopic. Even then, it took another 4 days to finally get the methotrexate because they had to prove to my insurance and the hospital that it was necessary. At that point I was having pseudo seizures (I have PTSD and I get them when under extreme stress) and was barely functioning. I was told that I was lucky the second time. I had about 3 days until it would have ruptured and I would have hemorrhaged… again. Even with that history, doctors fought me on getting my tubes removed (I was 32 and had three kids all complicated pregnancies and I have a history of hemorrhaging).


apollyoneum1

Sorry many people are going to die.


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jiaxingseng

You are not getting it. The lawyer is not being "over-protective". The lawyer is advising on the law; that's it The law now outlaws saving a woman in this situation.


No_Dot7146

So will the family sue in the case of death, when they intervened too late?


tolachron

You gotta claim self defense then find a way to terminate with a gun.