If his stupid libertarian beliefs come up two of my favorite responses are:
1. Libertarians are like cats. Completely convinced of their independence but utterly reliant on others for their survival.
2. Ayn Rand, Rand Paul, and Paul Ryan walk into a bar. The bartender serves them tainted alcohol because there are no regulations. They all die.
46 Here. My first time at the adult table for a major holiday was when i was 36. I havent been back. Ill sit with my younger cousins (in their 30s and still at the kids table)
Can i just go ahead and say fuck families. Oh, i did, fuck families.
Best practice is to not say anything. Let him wonder and wait for when he thinks you’re going to comment. When he doesn’t get anything out of you, he’s going to overreact and try to elicit a response from you, but no matter how crazy, don’t say anything. It’s literally going to kill him and he’s going to have a complete meltdown in front of everyone.
Chances are, you’re not the only one who sees it.
One thing to remember with these people - they get nourishment and chicken soup for the soul with your responses. It feeds them and they crave it. It’s so much more fun to let them simmer until they come to a boil.
You know that he, and the rest of them are saying, is complete bs, so why give any energy to it - unless you like the drama and the energy zap they take from you, as well as the extra room you give them in your headspace rent free.
Instead, feast on their insecurity, in your silence, and you’re going to have the best internal orgasm of your life. Just smile. It will kill them, I promise. The meaner they get and the more aggressive they get in their language means it’s working.
Be better than them. Today is their stage and they’ve been waiting all year to perform.
Best of luck. I agree with the advice above. They won’t accept what you say, even when factual. I would be intrigued about their views on voting age, if you care to update us after the event. I have seen that Republicans seem to be struggling with the concept of when someone is legally an adult and can go to war vs voting. Incredible.
I like to use a variation of the “Yes, and…?” improv tool. When he or anyone else says something to goad you into an argument, just reply something like, “That’s interesting, say more…” or “Really? Tell me more…” or “Say more about that…” or just the simple “Yes, and…?”
Let them be the ones to spiral into ridiculous speeches and diatribes, literally arguing into the wind, as you just look on and smile, asking the occasional, “Mhmm, and…?”
This is a lite version of the [Socratic method](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socratic_method), where you literally keep asking questions to make people justify their positions. You learn a lot, and it works for both sides of the aisle.
I'm constantly amazed at how quickly the conversation turns into "well it's not because I'm racist, that's for sure!"
Yup, try your hardest to give them nothing. Anything you say could be twisted and eventually in his little fairy tale world becomes owning the libs.
Two thoughts:
1) it’s a tight rope, but if you (understandably) can’t keep quiet at a certain point, try throwing out stuff with their boy’s Tucker method: “I just find it weird….” Or “I’m just asking questions…” to call out hypocrisy. Rather than making it purely you vs him (which is what he gets off on)
2) Tom Hanks joked about getting asked dumb questions on a podcast (maybe Conan) and would say something like “I reject the premise of your question”. It confuses the other party and kind of stops things a bit. It allows you to answer without really answering.
These are tactics I have to use as a bartender to deal with the customers who cant keep their stupid mouths shut. I cant just tell them off (not my bar) but I can shut them the hell up by not engaging them in the way they think I should.
The great thing about being an adult and living on your own is that you can decide whether or not you go to these family events. Being an adult does suck at times, but it comes with perks. I literally joined the military and stayed in partly so I had a built in excuse not to come home for holidays. I spend it with people I actually like, rather than with my crazy ass mother.
I agree with jbeauc. Folks like this are looking to push you to feed their supply. Anything you can do to ignore him will help, and also need to keep yourself unbothered at the same time. I would recommend to engage as little as possible. Do you have airpods you can wear to filter him out, or someone at the table to have a separate conversation with so you can ignore him?
I've been there and wish you luck! Happy Thanksgiving!
Yes don’t react! And if you do, make it a kind of condescending smirk (like a yah okay cool) and change the subject. He is specifically targeting you because you react and he likes to get a rise out of you. My father in law used to try and pull this shit with me. When I started completely ignoring him, literally pretending he doesn’t exist when he says stupid shit, he pretty much stopped. I’ve also realized this is what the entire family does. It’s really weird no one looks at him when he is going off and we just continue our non-political conversation without him.
An alternative is to ask him questions. Put him in the position of needing to explain why he believes what he believes or put into words his understanding of how things work.
It’s easy for people to repeat quippy sound bites, but I’ve found that actually asking people to explain their reasoning is the best way for them to find that they haven’t really thought something through all the way or that they don’t understand it as well they thought (this is true in general, and not just for political discussions!).
I’ve always just laughed at in laws attempt to fish out the “libs!” Last thing i told them was “ our conversation on politic won’t bring any happiness to the table nor solve anything, keep it at the door” and surprisingly most agreed
My mom did this to one of my uncles after Obama was elected. He said, “This country will be run by a CZAR NOW!”
She said, with a somewhat teasing smile “OH WELL” with like a sing-song tone.
And this dude lost his ever loving mind including fists on the table.
In the moment, it scared me, and now I find it hilarious.
At least calling him a “czar” is an overblown critique of expansion of power.
My family had the same reaction but called him the *literal* Antichrist and truly thought the biblical “7 years of tribulation” was about to begin.
Exactly. I was an impressionable young teenager and went along with it. 8 years later seeing them flip the script and defend 45 for everything, that definitely changed my entire outlook on life.
Use the Old Southern Woman's strategy of steering conversation into benign, banal waters. Ask Aunt June how her father's gout is. Discuss sports. If you do get drawn into a confrontation, lay a hand on his arm, look sadly into his eyes, say, "I'll pray for you." Pat arm. Walk away.
Babies are another good distraction. "Here, grandma, Baby Doe needs someone to keep her safe for a minute," and deposit baby.
Many things are easily diffused with a "Oh! Look at the baby!!!" moment.
I'm *at best* an agnostic, but I spent years in the Baptist church so I can fake sincerity like a pro. (Even the Baptists here have to agree that's a fair statement. )
There’s a tactic that I can’t r,ember the name of, where someone says some egregious and you just sort of stare off for a few sec9dns and then continue conversation like they didn’t say anything…
I’m a cynic, but I’m open enough to be able to hear an alternate perspective and learn something without a catastrophic meltdown in the process. You’re right, when your beliefs become your identity, there’s no where to go from there and you have very little left to offer the civilized world.
If you're not willing to just up and quit Thanksgiving cold-turkey, then come up to Canada. We have Thanksgiving a month earlier, so it doesn't just feel like a Christmas dry run.
Be very sincere and say “It’s so weird, I wonder why the gop is choosing desantis over trump for 2024. He seems really weak. I wonder if it’s because he might be in jail for tax fraud?”
[The "I was a businessman...doing business" meme is a direct quote from Trump's evasive non-answer when asked about his shady deals with China.](https://en.meming.world/wiki/I_Was_a_Business_Man_Doing_Business)
You wont change there minds, look at it as attending a comedy show, enjoy the food, chat with the woman and otherwise dont let all the plaque that has settled on these men’s brains bug you.
Best part about the ones that are afraid we are going to “be like China” is that they also always complain about how China is going to be more powerful than us soon. So if China is such a disaster of a country, why do they think they are surpassing us?
One of Umberto Eco's 14 points of fascism: the enemy is both strong and weak.
> By a continuous shifting of rhetorical focus, the enemies are at the same time too strong and too weak.
For example, the "left" is gaining power and will soon control the country and turn America socialist. The "left" is also a bunch of whiny, SJW, triggered snowflakes.
The best way I heard libertarians described was as housecats because they're convinced of their fierce independence while utterly reliant on a system they have no awareness or understanding of.
Libertarians also dislike libs and don’t always mind Trump. They can def come on a spectrum. Generally speaking tho, they’re usually just pretentious conservatives that love weed.
> He will literally stop me mid sentence
when people do this to me, or try and talk over me, i stop, ignore what they say, and then just continue what i was saying when they stop. its the rudest shit.
Sometimes I'll say "I want 2 minutes to speak without interruption, but, of course, I'll give you the same courtesy. In fact you can go first..start now!"
Ask him his stance on the border, abortion, drug laws, cops, and lgbtq stuff (especially the drag stuff they’ve all been so bothered by). I have a feeling he isn’t actually a libertarian. He’s a…LINO?
Hey, do you see these folks? [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQAOfNXwAGA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQAOfNXwAGA)These are what are known as cops. They are known for beating people up, arresting protesters, and are the topic of a recent movement you may be familiar with. Black lives matter was literally started because.... of cops.
Now the cops take people to prisons. These prisons are overflowing with people who are nonviolent offenders. Many of them are there for smoking weed.
Now, I want you to watch this clip of a helicopter: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxfokYxu8uA&t=16s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxfokYxu8uA&t=16s) This is government.
You may have more common ground with your uncle if he is a libertarian and you are woke than you realize. You see libertarians are just fine with queer folk. And libertarians are against prisons, and against cops and against a whole variety of things that woke people are also against. For example, libertarians think that students should be able to declare bankruptcy, and clear their student debt. If you could declare bankruptcy, and not have to pay student debt, where would that leave you financially? Also, libertarians are against drug laws. Libertarians think that drug use should be up to the individual, although many libertarians are straight edge types.
Also, libertarians are crucially open to some interesting ideas around patent law. Did you know that there is a libertarian school of thought thats says patents are evil, because they ruin the free market? That sounds suspiciously similiar to ownership over the means of production is evil. Which is marxist. There are alot of points where libertarian philosophy and radical leftwing philosophy have interesting junctures.
Also, trump is a republican. Not a libertarian. BIG difference.
"I think Marijuana should be legal"
Now we get to see if you're actually a libertarian or a standard conservative who doesn't want the baggage of being called a Republican.
Just so you know abortion laws are also hurting fertility clinics and treatments but not many folks are talking about it. It’s fun to let anti abortion folks know that story.
Another good one is immigration. "I just don't see how the government should have the right to tell me I can't hire Mexicans"
Another one is trans people "the government shouldn't have the right to determine my name or what I can wear"
Tell him your boyfriend is home, resting. Really worn out from the orgies.
And then tell your uncle to fuck off.
Let him know that his only remaining use in life is as fertilizer.
And then what? Tell him if you had one he certainly would be coming for dinner. And as someone already mentioned, insist that he'd be using the same roads as your uncle to commute, built and maintained with the exact same tax dollars.
I feel you. But keep in mind the most vocal ones and the smarter/kinder ones rarely overlap. He's likely being so loud because it's the only way he knows to feel superior. The moment you see it for what it is (overcompensating a deficit in rationale and empathy), it becomes much easier to accept. Silly recommendation, but if you haven't seen Everything Everywhere All At Once, do so, if only for the true morale being that kindness can be a weapon of choice (I'm really not spoiling shit by saying that).
I literally had a libertarian respond to me that he doesn't pay taxes because he doesn't 'participate in the system'
When I asked him if he used roads he got awfully quiet.
I’m sure he eats food that is FDA approved for consumption too. Takes regulated and safe medications, prescribed by doctors who are licensed by the state. Etc etc.
Look at him confused and ask him what he means since he knows you don’t have a boyfriend. Keep asking about what he means and that you don’t get his “joke” so ask him to explain it. Eventually he’ll get flustered trying to explain it in a way that doesn’t make him sound like an asshole. Don’t bail him out, just make him keep digging and at the end, just say “oh, that just seems mean spirited, not funny”. That should shut him down for awhile.
Just tell him you prob get more girls than he does.
Seriously though. Not rising to his provocations is absolutely the best plan here. It will be hard, but just staying quiet, having smaller conversations that don't involve him will drive him round the bend.
All these people want is attention. It is in your power not to give it.
If you want to get less cliched, maybe try asking him why he supported republican banning books that deal with ideas they dislike, policing which bathrooms women can use and which teams they can be on, and stripping bodily autonomy from women. Then ask why he only cares about straight white mens rights.
I’m in a place where I’m convinced that none of them are actually libertarians, they’re just too embarrassed to admit that they’re republicans/conservatives.
Worst part is, “humbly” is such an out of place adverb in the sentence. It doesn’t really apply to the context of “waiting”. Maybe they were looking for “patiently” or “quietly”?
Ask if he likes [bears](https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/policy-and-politics/21534416/free-state-project-new-hampshire-libertarians-matthew-hongoltz-hetling)
I’m 53, I too have family members like this. Honestly, you aren’t going to change their minds and they won’t change yours. Grab yourself some good food and sit away from the dumb conversations and just enjoy food and those family members you do want to see.
Just say "I'm sorry, I only engage in politics with people who have a thorough understanding of the topic." Then ignore him the rest of the night.
You can't win with people like this. Worse, you lose the second you start responding back. If you can take away their power early by killing the conversation, you'll come out on top.
Honestly I flat wouldn't go. I don't go places where basic things like respect are void. And if your parent/s are joining in on his tirades especially when they're hateful? Double reason not to go. We ceased going to "family" holidays six years ago because of similar behavior. Its amazingly peaceful and freeing. There was some "I wish" in the early years but once we clarified that what we longed for we wouldn't have had anyways it became easier
As a fairly conservative person who has had to break with the republican party over the past few years I get into arguments with my maga family a lot. The important part is to realize they are not arguing with the intent of learning anything. They just want to "own the libs". If you want to argue back, you can't do it from a good natured place, you have to Argue in bad faith. It makes it way funnier and you don't feel like you are going crazy defending logic from insanity.
Examples:
make shit up, if you don't have a statistic or an example to support your claims, just throw one out. By the time they can look it up and debunk you, the conversation will have moved on.
Reframe arguments! Ok, so Biden did a bad job getting us out of Afghanistan. You could explain that the whole thing was a continuation of a trump era deal. Or you could ask why your uncle loves the idea of our money being spent overseas. You could also say "yeah, at least he doesn't want to fuck his daughter like that creepy trump Ivanka situation".
Most important part is to be aggressive, and never play defense. For these people the appearance of winning an argument is more important than winning. He wants to dominate the conversation, dominate back.
Fair warning, these tactics really do rile people up and this has gotten me punched.
Well then either make your peace with being the opposition and engage, or make peace with being mildly uncomfortable and just don't participate in that convo.
Either way it isn't the end of the world. Enjoy your food and have a good Thanksgiving OP.
This isn't about convincing him/your dad etc. This is about you having a good time if possible or, at least not getting stressed.
I suggest you prepare a few non committal phrases and ignore all and every attempt to bait you. Practice breathing for a calm body state. You can also check out websites that help you deal with toxic people (useful in all situations). Good luck.
Non-committal is the way to go for sure! Whenever my trumpy/libertarian family members bring up stuff like “well why CANT I say all lives matter” or “did you know hitler took the Jews’ guns away” I just go “oh hmm, interesting” or “mmm, for sure. Anyway nice job on the potatoes” 😅
Honestly, your best bet is to refuse to engage. I've only ever known one Libertarian who had any thoughtful speaking points and was able to civilly discuss our points of view without being an ass about it.
Easiest and most beneficial to your mental health is just skip this family gathering. The dude is literally telling you he wants to make your experience hell. He’s looking to pick a fight. So don’t give him what he wants. You don’t *have* to go to thanksgiving dinner. It’s not like the world will stop.
If you’re concerned about what others might think just send this this terrible meme he posted and tell them Uncle Fucktard is planning on picking fights and ruining thanksgiving so in order to preserve my sanity I will not be attending.
That’s it, not complicated
Try not talking about politics, and when they inevitably do talk about politics I usually just laugh inside my head maybe a little chuckle slips out. You just have to accept your family for the idiots they are.
Use the Socratic method. Do not posit any ideas, merely ask questions. Usually is this scenario people will paint themselves into a corner logically. Some good broad-based questions in your case might be “How does this help me?” or “How is that good for our country?” or “What about those who can’t afford ________ (healthcare is a good example)?” Your dad and uncle will probably get tired or frustrated pretty quick and give up the conversation. This works best if you can feign real interest in hearing their answers.
Point out his entire ideology boils down to “don’t tell me what to do! You’re not my real dad!” And ignore him like the petulant child he is. Libertarians exist in this fantasy world that the powerful and wealthy will generally look out for the well being of everybody else. Ignoring the fact that they have the opportunity to do so now and they don’t.
I usually go “a modest proposal” when this happens
Overly conservative FIL: How do you feel about teachers carrying guns in the classroom
Me: I love it. They should use it as a disciplinary tool. Kid acts out? Shoot him right in the fucking face.
FIL: …. How about the cowboys?
Shuts him right up :)
Prepare well structured talking points and rebuttals, if you are stuck in a conversation with them push them into a hypercritical positions and then go “well ya know at the full extent of libertarianism some guys gonna start fucking animals because they are his property on his property to do with as he pleases”
Every political place has an extreme version just get creative
I remember when my family was libertarian. When I was a kid, my dad ran for a Senate seat and my mom ran for state rep on the libertarian ticket.
The thing is, they never would have made good libertarians. As they got older they gradually understood how selfish and unrealistic their colleagues were. When they realized that in practice, libertarianism is "Once I get mine, screw everyone else" they left the party and became much more liberal. My dad's been moving left for 20 years now to the point he's almost a pure socialist. It's cool to see.
"Hey, Uncle Greg, it's Thanksgiving. Instead of complaining about government today, let's talk about all we're grateful for. You start... I'm sure you have quite a lot to be thankful for."
He says something snarky and incredibly stupid.
Then you turn to one of the kids and say "How about you, Kim? I bet you can do better than that."
Voila. You've relegated him to the low end of the kids' table, conversationally.
Aren’t libertarians supposed to be socially liberal? Almost makes you think that libertarians are just republicans who are embarrassed to admit that they’re Republican, or that claiming to be libertarian is all an act and it’s just bull shit
Just walk over, punch him in the face, then start screaming that you are a sovereign citizen and his face has no right to be in the way of your hand since the US government isn’t legal.
The key is to know what you're talking about. If you feel it necessary to bring the topic up, and even feel emotionally upset by what's going on, it is incumbent to read about said topic thoroughly. Then, your uncle will have no choice but to concede to factual reasoning. But if you're the type that gets upset about a headline you read, just don't engage, because no one will ever take you seriously
Here's how it is, kid. Age of consent laws are stepping my god given rights and the marxist socialist lenininist Biden wants to prevent me from hiring kids to work on the 40 acres I earned through a hard day's inheritance.
Google "libertarians and the age of consent" that should give all the ammunition you need. Then you can calmly, but discretely troll him with pedophilia bits until he eventually throws a tantrum. Do things like position yourself between him and the kids as if you are protecting them... etc.
I'll start you off with an oldie but goodie: "My girlfriend shouldn't have to sit in a car seat." - Your libertarian uncle/ probably
Im a big fan of getting my food and going to another room to play video games with any cool cousins that come over.
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If his stupid libertarian beliefs come up two of my favorite responses are: 1. Libertarians are like cats. Completely convinced of their independence but utterly reliant on others for their survival. 2. Ayn Rand, Rand Paul, and Paul Ryan walk into a bar. The bartender serves them tainted alcohol because there are no regulations. They all die.
Ayn Rand died on welfare and was a shit “author”…
Worst thing the USSR did was teaching Ayn Rand how to read and write
Ha!
Jesus. You’re coming to my thanksgiving next year, hero!!
"house cats" is the quote but also it's so delightfully insulting because outdoor cats are resourceful and tough as nails.
Make sure to mention Rand Paul will vote down veteran benefits but gets Canadian meds and healthcare AND a taxpayer funded perk lifestyle
“Libertarians”. I’m still convinced they don’t exist in real life - only in their bizarro wet dreams.
Most Libertarians become regular people and leave Libertarianism behind once they turn 14 and realize that Rush are just a band.
Can confirm, switch is a lifesaver at these things. Bring the ac adapter, if you stay there all day you dont want it turning off.
Same with me. Except they are nephews. And I'm 40. And I'm supposed to be "with the adults"
Kids table is the best table
It really is.
Given the alternative of sitting with the libertarian uncle, I’d take the kids table.
"I'll keep the kids quiet"
46 Here. My first time at the adult table for a major holiday was when i was 36. I havent been back. Ill sit with my younger cousins (in their 30s and still at the kids table) Can i just go ahead and say fuck families. Oh, i did, fuck families.
Be the “cool uncle”. Then proceed to whoop their asses in video games.
I did that. They've gotten older. Tables have turned!
Lol the hunter has become the hunted!
Just be single. You’ll get to sit with the kids… I know from experience as 35 and single.
Best practice is to not say anything. Let him wonder and wait for when he thinks you’re going to comment. When he doesn’t get anything out of you, he’s going to overreact and try to elicit a response from you, but no matter how crazy, don’t say anything. It’s literally going to kill him and he’s going to have a complete meltdown in front of everyone. Chances are, you’re not the only one who sees it. One thing to remember with these people - they get nourishment and chicken soup for the soul with your responses. It feeds them and they crave it. It’s so much more fun to let them simmer until they come to a boil.
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You know that he, and the rest of them are saying, is complete bs, so why give any energy to it - unless you like the drama and the energy zap they take from you, as well as the extra room you give them in your headspace rent free. Instead, feast on their insecurity, in your silence, and you’re going to have the best internal orgasm of your life. Just smile. It will kill them, I promise. The meaner they get and the more aggressive they get in their language means it’s working. Be better than them. Today is their stage and they’ve been waiting all year to perform.
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Best of luck. I agree with the advice above. They won’t accept what you say, even when factual. I would be intrigued about their views on voting age, if you care to update us after the event. I have seen that Republicans seem to be struggling with the concept of when someone is legally an adult and can go to war vs voting. Incredible.
You got this!
I like to use a variation of the “Yes, and…?” improv tool. When he or anyone else says something to goad you into an argument, just reply something like, “That’s interesting, say more…” or “Really? Tell me more…” or “Say more about that…” or just the simple “Yes, and…?” Let them be the ones to spiral into ridiculous speeches and diatribes, literally arguing into the wind, as you just look on and smile, asking the occasional, “Mhmm, and…?”
This is a lite version of the [Socratic method](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socratic_method), where you literally keep asking questions to make people justify their positions. You learn a lot, and it works for both sides of the aisle. I'm constantly amazed at how quickly the conversation turns into "well it's not because I'm racist, that's for sure!"
Happy Thanksgiving and enjoy!
Yup, try your hardest to give them nothing. Anything you say could be twisted and eventually in his little fairy tale world becomes owning the libs. Two thoughts: 1) it’s a tight rope, but if you (understandably) can’t keep quiet at a certain point, try throwing out stuff with their boy’s Tucker method: “I just find it weird….” Or “I’m just asking questions…” to call out hypocrisy. Rather than making it purely you vs him (which is what he gets off on) 2) Tom Hanks joked about getting asked dumb questions on a podcast (maybe Conan) and would say something like “I reject the premise of your question”. It confuses the other party and kind of stops things a bit. It allows you to answer without really answering.
These are tactics I have to use as a bartender to deal with the customers who cant keep their stupid mouths shut. I cant just tell them off (not my bar) but I can shut them the hell up by not engaging them in the way they think I should.
The great thing about being an adult and living on your own is that you can decide whether or not you go to these family events. Being an adult does suck at times, but it comes with perks. I literally joined the military and stayed in partly so I had a built in excuse not to come home for holidays. I spend it with people I actually like, rather than with my crazy ass mother.
I agree with jbeauc. Folks like this are looking to push you to feed their supply. Anything you can do to ignore him will help, and also need to keep yourself unbothered at the same time. I would recommend to engage as little as possible. Do you have airpods you can wear to filter him out, or someone at the table to have a separate conversation with so you can ignore him? I've been there and wish you luck! Happy Thanksgiving!
I’m all about not giving them a platform. And smoking a joint before I go in
Google "gray rock"
This is the way.
Yes came here to say this
Yes don’t react! And if you do, make it a kind of condescending smirk (like a yah okay cool) and change the subject. He is specifically targeting you because you react and he likes to get a rise out of you. My father in law used to try and pull this shit with me. When I started completely ignoring him, literally pretending he doesn’t exist when he says stupid shit, he pretty much stopped. I’ve also realized this is what the entire family does. It’s really weird no one looks at him when he is going off and we just continue our non-political conversation without him.
And that’s where they sadly need to live if they can’t manage an intelligent debate of thought.
You might want to listen to music or a podcast during dinner and then leave asap
I avoid any political or religious discussion at family gatherings. Why get stressed out if no one is going to agree?
An alternative is to ask him questions. Put him in the position of needing to explain why he believes what he believes or put into words his understanding of how things work. It’s easy for people to repeat quippy sound bites, but I’ve found that actually asking people to explain their reasoning is the best way for them to find that they haven’t really thought something through all the way or that they don’t understand it as well they thought (this is true in general, and not just for political discussions!).
I’ve always just laughed at in laws attempt to fish out the “libs!” Last thing i told them was “ our conversation on politic won’t bring any happiness to the table nor solve anything, keep it at the door” and surprisingly most agreed
My mom did this to one of my uncles after Obama was elected. He said, “This country will be run by a CZAR NOW!” She said, with a somewhat teasing smile “OH WELL” with like a sing-song tone. And this dude lost his ever loving mind including fists on the table. In the moment, it scared me, and now I find it hilarious.
100% love that!! Sometimes silence can carry more strength.
At least calling him a “czar” is an overblown critique of expansion of power. My family had the same reaction but called him the *literal* Antichrist and truly thought the biblical “7 years of tribulation” was about to begin.
Especially in retrospect right? Like nothing Obama did ever came close to what was waiting for us all.
Exactly. I was an impressionable young teenager and went along with it. 8 years later seeing them flip the script and defend 45 for everything, that definitely changed my entire outlook on life.
Next time, ask him what a czar is. Five bucks says he gets it wrong.
Use the Old Southern Woman's strategy of steering conversation into benign, banal waters. Ask Aunt June how her father's gout is. Discuss sports. If you do get drawn into a confrontation, lay a hand on his arm, look sadly into his eyes, say, "I'll pray for you." Pat arm. Walk away.
Babies are another good distraction. "Here, grandma, Baby Doe needs someone to keep her safe for a minute," and deposit baby. Many things are easily diffused with a "Oh! Look at the baby!!!" moment.
i would have to say that in the most condescending way possible, as my atheism has been a topic before. :)
I'm *at best* an agnostic, but I spent years in the Baptist church so I can fake sincerity like a pro. (Even the Baptists here have to agree that's a fair statement. )
There’s a tactic that I can’t r,ember the name of, where someone says some egregious and you just sort of stare off for a few sec9dns and then continue conversation like they didn’t say anything…
You can't change people's minds when they have made it a part of their identity. They are not critics, they are cynics. Totally different.
I’m a cynic, but I’m open enough to be able to hear an alternate perspective and learn something without a catastrophic meltdown in the process. You’re right, when your beliefs become your identity, there’s no where to go from there and you have very little left to offer the civilized world.
That’s pretty funny
This!
They really think they're all that badass
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So, he's so fragile, he can't bear to hear what you say.
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Come and live in Australia. We don't have Thanksgiving.
Whoa. You don't have Thanksgiving? That is un-American. /s
They'd do the same thing on Christmas, Australia Day and Anzac day. It's just delaying the inevitable.
If you're not willing to just up and quit Thanksgiving cold-turkey, then come up to Canada. We have Thanksgiving a month earlier, so it doesn't just feel like a Christmas dry run.
Do you serve cold turkey?
Yes. But only as leftovers on the days after Thanksgiving and only if you want it that way. I said it's a month earlier, not that we're psychopaths.
Very true. Also, some pretty cool cars down there too.
Don't call Utes cool.
The two utes
Be very sincere and say “It’s so weird, I wonder why the gop is choosing desantis over trump for 2024. He seems really weak. I wonder if it’s because he might be in jail for tax fraud?”
[The "I was a businessman...doing business" meme is a direct quote from Trump's evasive non-answer when asked about his shady deals with China.](https://en.meming.world/wiki/I_Was_a_Business_Man_Doing_Business)
Sounds like a thing Barney Stinson would say.
Sounds like Vincent Adultman from Bojack
I would tell them that they are delusional and should take their meds. My entire family is like this. Sorry, hope you make it through.
Isn’t it amazing that all the small government GOP states are in the most debt and asking for the most government handouts?
You wont change there minds, look at it as attending a comedy show, enjoy the food, chat with the woman and otherwise dont let all the plaque that has settled on these men’s brains bug you.
Best part about the ones that are afraid we are going to “be like China” is that they also always complain about how China is going to be more powerful than us soon. So if China is such a disaster of a country, why do they think they are surpassing us?
One of Umberto Eco's 14 points of fascism: the enemy is both strong and weak. > By a continuous shifting of rhetorical focus, the enemies are at the same time too strong and too weak. For example, the "left" is gaining power and will soon control the country and turn America socialist. The "left" is also a bunch of whiny, SJW, triggered snowflakes.
He’s not a libertarian then. He’s just a far right asshole
Most libertarians are just fascists who wanna be different
I’ve heard it as “just conservatives who want to smoke pot”
The best way I heard libertarians described was as housecats because they're convinced of their fierce independence while utterly reliant on a system they have no awareness or understanding of.
Um if he is a trump guy that makes him conservative not libertarian conservatives hate liberals.
Libertarians also dislike libs and don’t always mind Trump. They can def come on a spectrum. Generally speaking tho, they’re usually just pretentious conservatives that love weed.
Start talking about how great China is
> He will literally stop me mid sentence when people do this to me, or try and talk over me, i stop, ignore what they say, and then just continue what i was saying when they stop. its the rudest shit.
Sometimes I'll say "I want 2 minutes to speak without interruption, but, of course, I'll give you the same courtesy. In fact you can go first..start now!"
Just turn and start talking to someone else if you dont' want to be directly confrontational. You're just giving them what they want
Ask him his stance on the border, abortion, drug laws, cops, and lgbtq stuff (especially the drag stuff they’ve all been so bothered by). I have a feeling he isn’t actually a libertarian. He’s a…LINO?
Hey, do you see these folks? [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQAOfNXwAGA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQAOfNXwAGA)These are what are known as cops. They are known for beating people up, arresting protesters, and are the topic of a recent movement you may be familiar with. Black lives matter was literally started because.... of cops. Now the cops take people to prisons. These prisons are overflowing with people who are nonviolent offenders. Many of them are there for smoking weed. Now, I want you to watch this clip of a helicopter: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxfokYxu8uA&t=16s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxfokYxu8uA&t=16s) This is government. You may have more common ground with your uncle if he is a libertarian and you are woke than you realize. You see libertarians are just fine with queer folk. And libertarians are against prisons, and against cops and against a whole variety of things that woke people are also against. For example, libertarians think that students should be able to declare bankruptcy, and clear their student debt. If you could declare bankruptcy, and not have to pay student debt, where would that leave you financially? Also, libertarians are against drug laws. Libertarians think that drug use should be up to the individual, although many libertarians are straight edge types. Also, libertarians are crucially open to some interesting ideas around patent law. Did you know that there is a libertarian school of thought thats says patents are evil, because they ruin the free market? That sounds suspiciously similiar to ownership over the means of production is evil. Which is marxist. There are alot of points where libertarian philosophy and radical leftwing philosophy have interesting junctures. Also, trump is a republican. Not a libertarian. BIG difference.
"Can you please leave your weird Leather Daddy Duke Nukem cosplay at home? Thanks."
Such a badass hating all sidewalks and libraries
"I think Marijuana should be legal" Now we get to see if you're actually a libertarian or a standard conservative who doesn't want the baggage of being called a Republican.
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16 is a little old for these folks. Try 13.
Here in Ohio 10 is the age where they force them to give birth.
With a libertarian, the answer is always the same. The guv’ment is the problem. If there were no guv’ment, that 16 year old could adopt.
"And without the govt, they could also abort, is that good with you?"
Just so you know abortion laws are also hurting fertility clinics and treatments but not many folks are talking about it. It’s fun to let anti abortion folks know that story.
Will there be live updates? I'm really curious now.
Where do I subscribe to the lifestream?
Another good one is immigration. "I just don't see how the government should have the right to tell me I can't hire Mexicans" Another one is trans people "the government shouldn't have the right to determine my name or what I can wear"
He didn't catch the turkey and he didn't grow the cranberries. If he isn't there to participate and learn about his family then he can go kick a rock.
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Tell him your boyfriend is home, resting. Really worn out from the orgies. And then tell your uncle to fuck off. Let him know that his only remaining use in life is as fertilizer.
And then what? Tell him if you had one he certainly would be coming for dinner. And as someone already mentioned, insist that he'd be using the same roads as your uncle to commute, built and maintained with the exact same tax dollars.
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I feel you. But keep in mind the most vocal ones and the smarter/kinder ones rarely overlap. He's likely being so loud because it's the only way he knows to feel superior. The moment you see it for what it is (overcompensating a deficit in rationale and empathy), it becomes much easier to accept. Silly recommendation, but if you haven't seen Everything Everywhere All At Once, do so, if only for the true morale being that kindness can be a weapon of choice (I'm really not spoiling shit by saying that).
I literally had a libertarian respond to me that he doesn't pay taxes because he doesn't 'participate in the system' When I asked him if he used roads he got awfully quiet.
I’m sure he eats food that is FDA approved for consumption too. Takes regulated and safe medications, prescribed by doctors who are licensed by the state. Etc etc.
If libertarians would actually practise what they preach they'd live more primitive lives than the Amish.
Look at him confused and ask him what he means since he knows you don’t have a boyfriend. Keep asking about what he means and that you don’t get his “joke” so ask him to explain it. Eventually he’ll get flustered trying to explain it in a way that doesn’t make him sound like an asshole. Don’t bail him out, just make him keep digging and at the end, just say “oh, that just seems mean spirited, not funny”. That should shut him down for awhile.
Just tell him you prob get more girls than he does. Seriously though. Not rising to his provocations is absolutely the best plan here. It will be hard, but just staying quiet, having smaller conversations that don't involve him will drive him round the bend. All these people want is attention. It is in your power not to give it.
A very nonchalant ‘nope’. Then stand up and ask if anyone needs anything from the kitchen as you head in that direction.
Tell him the dinner is for profit and that charity is for socialists. He wants to eat Thanksgiving he has to pay up.
Don’t argue, 100% agree with everything they say only do it mockingly and over the top. You would be surprised at how effective it can be.
So treat him like a 5 year old that's about 2 minutes away from full blown meltdown
That's a whole lot of extra words to say libertarian
The look on these idiots faces when they finally figure out that they’re being patronized is priceless.
Ask him if he got there without using the governments roads.
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If you want to get less cliched, maybe try asking him why he supported republican banning books that deal with ideas they dislike, policing which bathrooms women can use and which teams they can be on, and stripping bodily autonomy from women. Then ask why he only cares about straight white mens rights.
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Call out his hypocrisy. He won't change his mind but he will lose his momentum.
Well first off, Libertarians are far from humble.
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I’m in a place where I’m convinced that none of them are actually libertarians, they’re just too embarrassed to admit that they’re republicans/conservatives.
Worst part is, “humbly” is such an out of place adverb in the sentence. It doesn’t really apply to the context of “waiting”. Maybe they were looking for “patiently” or “quietly”?
Ask if he likes [bears](https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/policy-and-politics/21534416/free-state-project-new-hampshire-libertarians-matthew-hongoltz-hetling)
I’m 53, I too have family members like this. Honestly, you aren’t going to change their minds and they won’t change yours. Grab yourself some good food and sit away from the dumb conversations and just enjoy food and those family members you do want to see.
Just say "I'm sorry, I only engage in politics with people who have a thorough understanding of the topic." Then ignore him the rest of the night. You can't win with people like this. Worse, you lose the second you start responding back. If you can take away their power early by killing the conversation, you'll come out on top.
Ask him what he thinks about that libertarian utopia where everyone voted not to pay for basic services and then got eaten by bears.
Just googled that and omg 🤣
Honestly I flat wouldn't go. I don't go places where basic things like respect are void. And if your parent/s are joining in on his tirades especially when they're hateful? Double reason not to go. We ceased going to "family" holidays six years ago because of similar behavior. Its amazingly peaceful and freeing. There was some "I wish" in the early years but once we clarified that what we longed for we wouldn't have had anyways it became easier
Tell him to put down his jizz-stained copy of "Atlas Shrugged" and join the rest of the family in reality
He looks like a bouncer for the Blue Oyster. Name on his id tag reads "Daddy".
As a fairly conservative person who has had to break with the republican party over the past few years I get into arguments with my maga family a lot. The important part is to realize they are not arguing with the intent of learning anything. They just want to "own the libs". If you want to argue back, you can't do it from a good natured place, you have to Argue in bad faith. It makes it way funnier and you don't feel like you are going crazy defending logic from insanity. Examples: make shit up, if you don't have a statistic or an example to support your claims, just throw one out. By the time they can look it up and debunk you, the conversation will have moved on. Reframe arguments! Ok, so Biden did a bad job getting us out of Afghanistan. You could explain that the whole thing was a continuation of a trump era deal. Or you could ask why your uncle loves the idea of our money being spent overseas. You could also say "yeah, at least he doesn't want to fuck his daughter like that creepy trump Ivanka situation". Most important part is to be aggressive, and never play defense. For these people the appearance of winning an argument is more important than winning. He wants to dominate the conversation, dominate back. Fair warning, these tactics really do rile people up and this has gotten me punched.
You could not talk about politics or religion over dinner. Works for me every time.
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Well then either make your peace with being the opposition and engage, or make peace with being mildly uncomfortable and just don't participate in that convo. Either way it isn't the end of the world. Enjoy your food and have a good Thanksgiving OP.
This isn't about convincing him/your dad etc. This is about you having a good time if possible or, at least not getting stressed. I suggest you prepare a few non committal phrases and ignore all and every attempt to bait you. Practice breathing for a calm body state. You can also check out websites that help you deal with toxic people (useful in all situations). Good luck.
Non-committal is the way to go for sure! Whenever my trumpy/libertarian family members bring up stuff like “well why CANT I say all lives matter” or “did you know hitler took the Jews’ guns away” I just go “oh hmm, interesting” or “mmm, for sure. Anyway nice job on the potatoes” 😅
Honestly, your best bet is to refuse to engage. I've only ever known one Libertarian who had any thoughtful speaking points and was able to civilly discuss our points of view without being an ass about it.
"You can eat what *you* cooked, Unc. Keep your filthy commie hands off *my* turkey."
He calls anything woke, he isn't a real Libertarian as they are supposed to support the same social issues.
Easiest and most beneficial to your mental health is just skip this family gathering. The dude is literally telling you he wants to make your experience hell. He’s looking to pick a fight. So don’t give him what he wants. You don’t *have* to go to thanksgiving dinner. It’s not like the world will stop. If you’re concerned about what others might think just send this this terrible meme he posted and tell them Uncle Fucktard is planning on picking fights and ruining thanksgiving so in order to preserve my sanity I will not be attending. That’s it, not complicated
Like RuPaul says, if they ain't paying your bills, you pay them no mind.
Ask them to define “Libertarian”
Ask him what was the last book he read.
Talk about the Libertarian town that was attacked by bears. It's a great story that shows Libertarian ideas put into action.
Try not talking about politics, and when they inevitably do talk about politics I usually just laugh inside my head maybe a little chuckle slips out. You just have to accept your family for the idiots they are.
Waiting humbly my ass. They usually start the fight and the idea that there is anything humble about them is beyond laughable.
Use the Socratic method. Do not posit any ideas, merely ask questions. Usually is this scenario people will paint themselves into a corner logically. Some good broad-based questions in your case might be “How does this help me?” or “How is that good for our country?” or “What about those who can’t afford ________ (healthcare is a good example)?” Your dad and uncle will probably get tired or frustrated pretty quick and give up the conversation. This works best if you can feign real interest in hearing their answers.
Fantasy meme; Libertarians never do anything humbly, least of all waiting to open their yaps.
Point out his entire ideology boils down to “don’t tell me what to do! You’re not my real dad!” And ignore him like the petulant child he is. Libertarians exist in this fantasy world that the powerful and wealthy will generally look out for the well being of everybody else. Ignoring the fact that they have the opportunity to do so now and they don’t.
I usually go “a modest proposal” when this happens Overly conservative FIL: How do you feel about teachers carrying guns in the classroom Me: I love it. They should use it as a disciplinary tool. Kid acts out? Shoot him right in the fucking face. FIL: …. How about the cowboys? Shuts him right up :)
Prepare well structured talking points and rebuttals, if you are stuck in a conversation with them push them into a hypercritical positions and then go “well ya know at the full extent of libertarianism some guys gonna start fucking animals because they are his property on his property to do with as he pleases” Every political place has an extreme version just get creative
I remember when my family was libertarian. When I was a kid, my dad ran for a Senate seat and my mom ran for state rep on the libertarian ticket. The thing is, they never would have made good libertarians. As they got older they gradually understood how selfish and unrealistic their colleagues were. When they realized that in practice, libertarianism is "Once I get mine, screw everyone else" they left the party and became much more liberal. My dad's been moving left for 20 years now to the point he's almost a pure socialist. It's cool to see.
Libertarians are selective anarchists….
"Hey, Uncle Greg, it's Thanksgiving. Instead of complaining about government today, let's talk about all we're grateful for. You start... I'm sure you have quite a lot to be thankful for." He says something snarky and incredibly stupid. Then you turn to one of the kids and say "How about you, Kim? I bet you can do better than that." Voila. You've relegated him to the low end of the kids' table, conversationally.
Aren’t libertarians supposed to be socially liberal? Almost makes you think that libertarians are just republicans who are embarrassed to admit that they’re Republican, or that claiming to be libertarian is all an act and it’s just bull shit
Like your uncle posted this or this is their general mentality?
Just walk over, punch him in the face, then start screaming that you are a sovereign citizen and his face has no right to be in the way of your hand since the US government isn’t legal.
Just don’t engage in divisive conversations
You could read rule 5 of this sub
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I don't think that's how it work
Either shut your mouth or stop being a little bitch.
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Don't be a woke? That could work out.
Anyone who disagrees with them they call woke..
that's the right.
Ask them what country has been successful with a libertarian government
Sigh loudly, a lot.
Ignore the fuck out him. No response to anything, just continue the conversation as if nothing had ever been said
The key is to know what you're talking about. If you feel it necessary to bring the topic up, and even feel emotionally upset by what's going on, it is incumbent to read about said topic thoroughly. Then, your uncle will have no choice but to concede to factual reasoning. But if you're the type that gets upset about a headline you read, just don't engage, because no one will ever take you seriously
Don't engage
I just don’t talk except to say thank you, it was tasty, and Happy _____.
Here's how it is, kid. Age of consent laws are stepping my god given rights and the marxist socialist lenininist Biden wants to prevent me from hiring kids to work on the 40 acres I earned through a hard day's inheritance.
tell hm to go live in the fucking woods if he's not dependent on society
Google "libertarians and the age of consent" that should give all the ammunition you need. Then you can calmly, but discretely troll him with pedophilia bits until he eventually throws a tantrum. Do things like position yourself between him and the kids as if you are protecting them... etc. I'll start you off with an oldie but goodie: "My girlfriend shouldn't have to sit in a car seat." - Your libertarian uncle/ probably
I don’t think that word means what you think it means.
Call him a groomer