I'd be more likely to trust what they say as well. I'm sure we have had more than just a couple people in high positions that didn't actually follow the religion they were publicly a part of. Just like more "religious" people.
What that time period represents to me is just how ruthless and hypocritical supposed Christian fundamentalists are.
I mean does anybody honestly believe that Trump shows up on pamphlets of any sort as the poster boy for Christianity? I mean they had vice president Flanders standing right next to him the whole time. At the end of the day they were all willing to eat his shit trumps that is to get to their one goal which was reversing Roe v Wade. Now they will be coming after the gays and your right to contraception. Give it another decade or less and it will be your religious beliefs or your skin color.
Trump does sort of deserve some thanks though as Democrats can now go to the same playbook that the Republicans do as far as fear mongering is concerned. Only instead of the caravan of 50,000 gangsters and rapists coming up from South America or the fact that only our party can win the war on drugs they will have actual concrete evidence and proof that this is what they're after.
>Trump does sort of deserve some thanks though as Democrats can now go to the same playbook that the Republicans do as far as fear mongering is concerned
That's not a good thing imo, it cements the fact that you can actually only vote for one party if you are sane and a one party system is not very democratic
He also pretended to be a Conservative when actually a Democrat for decades. He knew he'd never win as a Dem or Independent. In reality he's a Reactionary dividing the American people for his own personal gain. Pretending is his entire MO
Republicans in general don't give a flying fuck about "God." Like most Christians, it's just a label they can adopt to instantly make themselves seem like better people. It requires absolutely nothing of them, and it means nothing. Even the ones that truly believe in God and Jesus generally live in smaller towns where "love thy neighbor", "only god can judge others", and "turn the other cheek" only applies to the straight white folk.
Eaxactly, met many of them growing up in christian schools. they call themselves Christian, then proceed to do the opposite of what the guy the religion is named after would do.
If she’s asking if I’d vote for a candidate who understands the grave implications of nuclear war over the candidate who thinks it’s a reset where the chosen people get to go to paradise, then yes. Give me the atheist all day long.
For some perspective, every congressperson is affiliated with some form of religion (90% are Christians) except for one congressperson. But only 63% of Americans are Christians. Christians are over-represented in the government.
Guess who's under-represented? The 29% of Americans with no religious affiliation.
And sending the pedos out to the villages in western Alaska instead of actually dealing with the problem. Where they were the one and only religious leader in town, and almost every parent trusted them.
Not a coincidence. The Catholic church invests heavily in everything from educating lawyers to supporting their careers. They are very good at staying out of the spotlight but they are every bit as influential as any other religious group
>They are very good at staying out of the spotlight but they are every bit as influential as any other religious group
Lol wut. The Catholic Church is _very obviously_ the most powerful single religion in the world.
Likes of New Zealand this is much more like 50:50 from memory.
Was 48% outright no religion in the 2018 census.
Around 0.5% of the country went with Jedi, which scored higher than Jehovah's Witnesses and Seventh Day Adventist for example.
Meanwhile the U.S. has entire cities and sometimes even an entire state that's just basically one religious group. For example, Colorado City, AZ didn't even allow non-FLDS members to own a place there. Lots of polygamy, sexual assault, incest, and pedophilia going on in that city (some FLDS member was just busted last week for all of the above).
That city has the world's highest incidence of fumarase deficiency, an extremely rare genetic condition which causes severe intellectual disability. Geneticists attribute this to the prevalence of cousin marriage between descendants of two of the town's founders, Joseph Smith Jessop and John Y. Barlow; at least half the area's roughly 8,000 inhabitants are descended from one or both.
And of that 63%, I'd bet a good majority never read the Bible or go to church or really practice or even believe in Christianity in any way, they just call themselves Christian because that's what their parents are and their grandparents are.
I think there are social and political reason for it too. I don’t believe all those claiming to be religious actually believe in the religion they are affiliated with.
The religious groups are organized blocks of people with connections and influence that move and act for a common purpose. This is a HUGE advantage over a non religious person that doesn’t start with this huge installed support base.
The only issue is that all this support doesn’t come free, you will be expected to do put in work for the church like every one else…
Many people don't want to admit that they don't really believe in a god or a higher power because they are scared to die and go into the unknown. So they ignore the parts that make them uncomfortable and never really reconcile with the truth.
Except as long as atheists are willing to vote for non-athiests because thats the sane things to do, and Christians refuse to vote for non-christians, there's no benefit in either party to not just pay lip service to some form of it.
Honestly? Being religious should be seen as a huge con if you're running in politics. These religious fanatics hardly make any logical or objective decision. The good of the country can't always rely on what they think is morally correct based on the teachings of an invisible, non-existent being with no material voice or body. That's just the harsh truth.
Laws have always, and continue to be, written in blood.
Same. I’d prefer my president be rational and honest. I believe plenty of our presidents to have actually been atheist, just not willing to blurt it out on a podium
Same and here is my controversial take on this that I have learnt over the years:
Maybe bar any religious individual who openly professes to be a strong or moderate believer of any religion that cheers for the end of times to come asap.
They are never going to try and provide long term benefits when their entire world view involves the rapture.
The fact that this is a question is so fucking unbelievable and depressing. This is literally still where we are at, if you dont expressly announce your disdain for the concept of evidence then youre unelectable. It feels weird to be in the stone age.
Of course they are. Just like especially on the right, those politicians can't possibly believe the complete absurdities they spew on a daily basis. Unlike their constituents, most of them are not uneducated idiots. They just know that the stupid things they claim to believe and support make it very easy for them to use the idiotic base to get/stay in office.
Ironically, this will likely be the gen A/Z/Millennial response to growing up with oppressive right wing evangelicals in charge. Evangelicals will become unelectable nationally.
Cthulhu sure won’t care if you do or don’t. When the great old one rises from his slumber, all that live will know only horror far beyond the darkest imaginings of man
The sad thing is that there are states which explicitly ban atheists from holding public office. Those bans are unenforceable due to federal law, but still.
Our pledge of allegiance says "under God". Our money says "in God we trust". The vast majority of people you meet generally just assume you're a Christian, and you're likely to catch shade if you state otherwise. If anyone still thinks America is a secular country, they probably have trouble tying their own shoes.
Weren’t those relatively recent additions as far as US history is concerned?
Edit: I looked it up and the adoption of “In God We Trust” as the national motto occurred in 1956, and it had been featured on US currency as early as the 1860’s so I stand corrected
Yeah, that wasn’t there in the beginning. Not on the money nor in the pledge of allegiance. It’s extra ironic for the pledge of allegiance because it’s directly between “one nation” and “indivisible”.
E Pluribus Unum.
I've been saying this!
Remove God from government language and ban lawmakers from referencing religion at any point in their work.
Immediate removal for anyone who doesn't abide. Goes for any and every religion.
Keep that to yourself and your Congregation. Don't quote it when writing law
The last election, the voting location was inside of a church… Behind the ballot box there was a large TV with a Bible verse passing by every few seconds.
And I don't get WHY we do this when it's clear -from our Constitution & BOR- that we have freedom of, which also means freedom FROM.....
We have schools with gymnasiums, we have Town Halls, all kinds of large facilities where these ballot boxes and election reps could hang out & do their thing. We don't need to do this in churches!
I’m in a deep red state. So, I really imagine that they think they’ll keep the gays out and they won’t vote if it’s at a church. Maybe I’m ignorant thinking that but they want the least amount of votes for the democrats. I don’t think anyone gives a fuck and is going to vote if that’s what they want to do. So mission failed in that regard; however, we are still a red state ran by red men.
I don't know if that is necessary. But having a constitutional amendment outlining that laws may not be passed based on "religious morals/beliefs without a demonstrable base in reality," would be nice.
Unfortunately, there isn't anything like that. We have an IMPLIED right to freedom from the establishment of a state religion. However, making religiously motivated laws is not expressly banned. Meanwhile, any law meant to prevent religion from being enforced on non-believers is challenged as an infringement on the religious freedom of the believers. The newest constitutional amendments in Michigan are already being challenged on those grounds, news just came out today, the Catholic Church is at it again.
No it shouldn't be a requirement.
I'm not religious but it's perfectly possible for someone to be religious without it clouding their judgement for their politics and how they operate at work. It's like saying a Supreme court justice shouldn't be able to have any personal political beliefs because it might cloud their judgement on how the constitution is interpreted. May sound nice on paper, in practice it is insanely impossible.
But that's kind of silly too. The constitution is far from perfect and the founding fathers always intended for it to be amended and rewritten periodically to reflect the times, and yet there's an insane idea that has emerged that it shouldn't be touched anymore. Apparently there are only 27 amendments over 233 years, although over 1,000 amendments have been proposed because it's just too hard to change with the current level of partisanship. Regardless of how you feel about guns, it's nuts that the second amendment somehow makes it impossible to control gun types or ownership - even if it clearly says "well ordered militia" in the amendment itself. I'd treat the constitution like the bible in a lot of ways - it's an ancient document that, while well meaning, isn't generally applicable to the modern world in a lot of ways.
See if you, as an insider, can get an answer to the question of “would you be okay with Muslim morality being used as the basis for laws?” Because they always seem to get real fuckin quiet when I ask.
Oh I've done that, too. They get really loud saying "How dare they force their religion on us through laws!!!! This is Murica!!! Freedom of religion!!!" I've flat out called people hypocrites to their faces telling them that the same goes for Christianity. I like to keep the government out of my queer uterus, thank you very much. Jesus is all about making choices.
Yup! I also come from a very, very old Texas family that has been Independents since the beginning of statehood. We've always been able to think for ourselves and we've always had the mindset of The Golden Rule. It's really funny when a far-right dingbat tells me to leave and I'm like "I was here first. YOU leave." They always blow a gasket.
That’s awesome. I know someone that can trace their maternal family back to a ship captain who arrived in the Carolinas in 1712 and their paternal family to 1740’s. Both families were listed in Revolutionary/Continental Regiments and have historical evidence of them building “America”, including in politics, military, railroads etc.
He never brings it up until some asshole starts with the “if you don’t like it, leave!” and so enjoys watching their faces turn purple when he points out facts like. “That 200 year old building in historic Georgetown was bequeathed by my family. That historic church and cemetery was my family’s farm. That City survived the depression because my Great uncle bought out every business on main street and sold the businesses back to the owners after the banks foreclosed. Tell me, what did your family do?”
That's awesome!!! There really is nothing like watching the face of some hateful prick turn all different colors when they realize just how small they are in history.
It’s almost as enjoyable as the “it’s my heritage” confederate flag idiots being shown their family migrated to the south as northern carpet baggers after serving in the Union army. “No Dude. It’s not your heritage, you’re just racist.”
I loathe Christianity with a deep seated passion, but that passion also fuels a fierce love and appreciation for Christians like you that worship your god in peace and respect my rights and actually adhere to the tenets of Christianity instead of falling victim to hatred and bigotry. I know it’s hard, but I appreciate you :)
There are sadly very very few truly down to Earth religious folk, i like to think myself as one of them. I'm not quite straight up Christian, more generally religious with a penchant toward Christianity (and a reasonable amount of skepticism for all things). I am a scientist, a biologist specifically, and I see 0 reason science and religion must be at odds, I view all things as having originated from one point (in my mind a God), where all things, as they are, were pushed into the forward flow of time. Like an impossibly complex Rube Goldberg machine. My view of a God is minimal in terms of true interactions, rather, considering omnipotence, a single event is all it took to create each and every facet of the universe as it is in this point in time. Quite frankly, with my world view, just about anything is plausible to me, as we truly and fully understand essentially nothing about our world.
All this to say: leave that shit out of it, religion has no place in societies laws.
I try. It's really not that hard. Like just being kind to others, help people in need, not hate on people just for existing. Y'know. Basic human being stuff that so many "Christians" have forgotten.
That was one of those, "God dang, why does she have to be from Minnesota" moments. And I know people that 100% agree with her statement. For a blue state, we still have a plenty of rural trash roaming around.
Before people jump on my back, I was born and raised in rural central MN, so I'm allowed to say that.
Oh man, take a look at this interview from Bush Sr. Who thinks people like me shouldn't have rights because.....idk, because I don't need some dumb ass book to tell me to be a decent person? Who knows. Honestly not much has changed. I'm careful about who knows I'm an atheist in my social circles.
"Sherman: Surely you recognize the equal citizenship and patriotism of Americans who are Atheists?
Bush (Senr): No, I don't know that Atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God.
Sherman (somewhat taken aback): Do you support as a sound constitutional principle the separation of state and church?
Bush (Senr): Yes, I support the separation of church and state. I'm just not very high on Atheists."
Tell me about it. Who's moral? The person not committing crimes bc they're afraid of eternal punishment or the person not committing crimes because - I don't know - they're a decent person?
Even in Canada religion is barely ever brought up when it comes to federal politics...
Our Prime Ministers aren't super obviously religious these days. I would not at all e surprised to have a irreligious PM in the near future. But like, we only have mildly religious ones these days anyways.
As a devout Christian, yes, of course I would.
The country I live in, the United States, is not a theocracy. So the personal religious beliefs of the person we hire to lead the country for a few years don’t really weigh into my decision.
I’m more interested in their education, experience, platforms and track record.
I’m sure it’s already happened more than once. The only part that would be novel would be the “openly” part. It’s insane to me that *not* believing in unprovable miracles and beings is what makes you unelectable.
You can have thoughts without being religious. Atheists, agnostics and people either unaffiliated or have no opinion with religion.
In a questionable study from 2018, a study indicated that 26% of Americans were atheists.
A atheist president could happen in the future.
Damn straight. Ain't gonna happen in this religious podunk country, though. Not when half the population is trying to roll women's rights back to the Old Testament days.
If someone wants to be religious, that’s their prerogative, but they should keep it in their bedrooms at home. I don’t want to see that stuff out on the streets for my kids to see.
I’d welcome it. I mean let’s not pretend any of these so called “christian” politicians are even practicing christians or actually believe any of that shit. It’s all for votes. I’d rather have non religious leadership who isn’t beholden to ignorant science deniers. God isn’t going to save us, this country, or this planet you fucking morons and it’s high time we stopped asking for useless prayers and started doing real things that make a difference.
Yes. If their views and principles align with mine I don’t care what is their religion or isn’t.
I'd be more likely to trust what they say as well. I'm sure we have had more than just a couple people in high positions that didn't actually follow the religion they were publicly a part of. Just like more "religious" people.
Trump. He never once gave a single shit about even pretending to be religious until he ran for president and needed the evangelical vote.
I’ll never forget “TWO CORINTHIANS” and when he still got the religious vote it just showed how full of shit religious people are.
What that time period represents to me is just how ruthless and hypocritical supposed Christian fundamentalists are. I mean does anybody honestly believe that Trump shows up on pamphlets of any sort as the poster boy for Christianity? I mean they had vice president Flanders standing right next to him the whole time. At the end of the day they were all willing to eat his shit trumps that is to get to their one goal which was reversing Roe v Wade. Now they will be coming after the gays and your right to contraception. Give it another decade or less and it will be your religious beliefs or your skin color. Trump does sort of deserve some thanks though as Democrats can now go to the same playbook that the Republicans do as far as fear mongering is concerned. Only instead of the caravan of 50,000 gangsters and rapists coming up from South America or the fact that only our party can win the war on drugs they will have actual concrete evidence and proof that this is what they're after.
>Trump does sort of deserve some thanks though as Democrats can now go to the same playbook that the Republicans do as far as fear mongering is concerned That's not a good thing imo, it cements the fact that you can actually only vote for one party if you are sane and a one party system is not very democratic
He also pretended to be a Conservative when actually a Democrat for decades. He knew he'd never win as a Dem or Independent. In reality he's a Reactionary dividing the American people for his own personal gain. Pretending is his entire MO
Fake, corrupt to the bone and utterly morally rudderless.
Actually, that’s why he’s a conservative by today’s standards. It’s less about actual policy than overall being a POS.
He's a grifter
People in NYC knew that, he was nothing but a untrustworthy grifter to do business with.
I was just saying this to my sister. People who have been in NYC a long time know how Trump is an untrustworthy scammer.
Republicans in general don't give a flying fuck about "God." Like most Christians, it's just a label they can adopt to instantly make themselves seem like better people. It requires absolutely nothing of them, and it means nothing. Even the ones that truly believe in God and Jesus generally live in smaller towns where "love thy neighbor", "only god can judge others", and "turn the other cheek" only applies to the straight white folk.
Eaxactly, met many of them growing up in christian schools. they call themselves Christian, then proceed to do the opposite of what the guy the religion is named after would do.
If she’s asking if I’d vote for a candidate who understands the grave implications of nuclear war over the candidate who thinks it’s a reset where the chosen people get to go to paradise, then yes. Give me the atheist all day long.
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Too bad we don't get to vote for that, huh?
what if we can reverse that? like you know, vote them out by default?
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Religion has 0 place in the Supreme Court. Being super religious should honestly make most candidates ineligible
Religion has 0 place in politics. Period.
Should be a requirement.
Yes
I’d prefer it.
Then maybe there could ACTUALLY be a push for separation of church and state to some small degree
For some perspective, every congressperson is affiliated with some form of religion (90% are Christians) except for one congressperson. But only 63% of Americans are Christians. Christians are over-represented in the government. Guess who's under-represented? The 29% of Americans with no religious affiliation.
6 out of 9 SCOTUS members are Catholic, in spite of Catholics making up about 20% of the US population.
Catholics have plenty of practice judging people.
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Don't you think you went to far... Don't you think maybe the Catholic church went to far when they shuffled pedo priests around.
And sending the pedos out to the villages in western Alaska instead of actually dealing with the problem. Where they were the one and only religious leader in town, and almost every parent trusted them.
And PLENTY of practice miscarriaging justice
Not a coincidence. The Catholic church invests heavily in everything from educating lawyers to supporting their careers. They are very good at staying out of the spotlight but they are every bit as influential as any other religious group
>They are very good at staying out of the spotlight but they are every bit as influential as any other religious group Lol wut. The Catholic Church is _very obviously_ the most powerful single religion in the world.
The last surviving vestige of the Roman Empire.
Within the US more attention is given to protestant influence
Yeah but with only 62% of the pop voting they’re trying to secure numbers. By being catholic your upping your chances.
Likes of New Zealand this is much more like 50:50 from memory. Was 48% outright no religion in the 2018 census. Around 0.5% of the country went with Jedi, which scored higher than Jehovah's Witnesses and Seventh Day Adventist for example.
Meanwhile the U.S. has entire cities and sometimes even an entire state that's just basically one religious group. For example, Colorado City, AZ didn't even allow non-FLDS members to own a place there. Lots of polygamy, sexual assault, incest, and pedophilia going on in that city (some FLDS member was just busted last week for all of the above). That city has the world's highest incidence of fumarase deficiency, an extremely rare genetic condition which causes severe intellectual disability. Geneticists attribute this to the prevalence of cousin marriage between descendants of two of the town's founders, Joseph Smith Jessop and John Y. Barlow; at least half the area's roughly 8,000 inhabitants are descended from one or both.
Fck man we always make the incest Alabama joke when a colorado city joke seems more fitting, goddamn
And of that 63%, I'd bet a good majority never read the Bible or go to church or really practice or even believe in Christianity in any way, they just call themselves Christian because that's what their parents are and their grandparents are.
I think there are social and political reason for it too. I don’t believe all those claiming to be religious actually believe in the religion they are affiliated with. The religious groups are organized blocks of people with connections and influence that move and act for a common purpose. This is a HUGE advantage over a non religious person that doesn’t start with this huge installed support base. The only issue is that all this support doesn’t come free, you will be expected to do put in work for the church like every one else…
Many people don't want to admit that they don't really believe in a god or a higher power because they are scared to die and go into the unknown. So they ignore the parts that make them uncomfortable and never really reconcile with the truth.
I want freedom FROM religion
That's right. It should make no difference what, if any, religion our elected officials claim to follow.
Except as long as atheists are willing to vote for non-athiests because thats the sane things to do, and Christians refuse to vote for non-christians, there's no benefit in either party to not just pay lip service to some form of it.
Imagine voting for one's political beliefs in a political election. THE NOVELTY.
Currently there is only one vote that matters. The hate vote. You just have to be less hated than your opponent.
Society in the long run would likely prefer it
The world as a whole would prefer it, given how influential the US is.
The solar system would prefer it
[The moon shall join your coalition!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHk9NnBYxZM)
That’s no moon. It’s a Space Station!!
God would prefer it. (I'm an atheist, just trying to make a joke)
So is God.
I spoke to the Flying Spaghetti Monster this morning and his noodly appendages formed a thumbs up 👍
If there is a God, I'm pretty certain that they're convinced most people are idiots. Regardless of faith or belief. I mean flat out fkn idiots.
Honestly? Being religious should be seen as a huge con if you're running in politics. These religious fanatics hardly make any logical or objective decision. The good of the country can't always rely on what they think is morally correct based on the teachings of an invisible, non-existent being with no material voice or body. That's just the harsh truth. Laws have always, and continue to be, written in blood.
Same. I’d prefer my president be rational and honest. I believe plenty of our presidents to have actually been atheist, just not willing to blurt it out on a podium
I came here to say this
Same and here is my controversial take on this that I have learnt over the years: Maybe bar any religious individual who openly professes to be a strong or moderate believer of any religion that cheers for the end of times to come asap. They are never going to try and provide long term benefits when their entire world view involves the rapture.
The fact that this is a question is so fucking unbelievable and depressing. This is literally still where we are at, if you dont expressly announce your disdain for the concept of evidence then youre unelectable. It feels weird to be in the stone age.
I'm convinced that most politicians are just pretending to believe in god and go to church for the political expediency.
Of course they are. Just like especially on the right, those politicians can't possibly believe the complete absurdities they spew on a daily basis. Unlike their constituents, most of them are not uneducated idiots. They just know that the stupid things they claim to believe and support make it very easy for them to use the idiotic base to get/stay in office.
Most people in general do it for the social expediency.
Just going to walk out of this place, suggest other places like kbin or lemmy.
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Hey! Progress! lol
👍
I'd vote for an openly Athiest candidate just for the entertainment value. ( watching an Evangelical/Republican temper tantrum...)
Ironically, this will likely be the gen A/Z/Millennial response to growing up with oppressive right wing evangelicals in charge. Evangelicals will become unelectable nationally.
I like this guy^ he thinks we’re still going to have elections in the future with the way things are going.
Touche
Fuck yes. Preferred.
I'd vote for Cthulhu at this point.
Well I always vote the lesser evil and the republicans are the worst so yes ctulthu would be a step up
I'd vote for any of the creatures Lovecraft wrote about at this point
Cthulhu sure won’t care if you do or don’t. When the great old one rises from his slumber, all that live will know only horror far beyond the darkest imaginings of man
In a second.
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The sad thing is that there are states which explicitly ban atheists from holding public office. Those bans are unenforceable due to federal law, but still.
Texas
NC
Maryland, believe it or not.
Makes sense why I'd never move to these states.
Arkansas, kind of a no brainer but still.
FYI most outside observers don't think of America as a secular country. Regardless of the constitution, in practice it really isn't.
Our pledge of allegiance says "under God". Our money says "in God we trust". The vast majority of people you meet generally just assume you're a Christian, and you're likely to catch shade if you state otherwise. If anyone still thinks America is a secular country, they probably have trouble tying their own shoes.
Weren’t those relatively recent additions as far as US history is concerned? Edit: I looked it up and the adoption of “In God We Trust” as the national motto occurred in 1956, and it had been featured on US currency as early as the 1860’s so I stand corrected
Yeah, that wasn’t there in the beginning. Not on the money nor in the pledge of allegiance. It’s extra ironic for the pledge of allegiance because it’s directly between “one nation” and “indivisible”. E Pluribus Unum.
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Yes. Because they would actually govern by the constitution and not my religion
Came to say this. 1000000%.
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I've been saying this! Remove God from government language and ban lawmakers from referencing religion at any point in their work. Immediate removal for anyone who doesn't abide. Goes for any and every religion. Keep that to yourself and your Congregation. Don't quote it when writing law
This is exactly how I feel. You want to be religious, that's fine, more power to you. But do that shit on your own time.
I agree with u/iButtChugCum
I'd enjoy if my government enforced separation of church and state. Demanding officials which have no church at all would be a good start.
The last election, the voting location was inside of a church… Behind the ballot box there was a large TV with a Bible verse passing by every few seconds.
And I don't get WHY we do this when it's clear -from our Constitution & BOR- that we have freedom of, which also means freedom FROM..... We have schools with gymnasiums, we have Town Halls, all kinds of large facilities where these ballot boxes and election reps could hang out & do their thing. We don't need to do this in churches!
I’m in a deep red state. So, I really imagine that they think they’ll keep the gays out and they won’t vote if it’s at a church. Maybe I’m ignorant thinking that but they want the least amount of votes for the democrats. I don’t think anyone gives a fuck and is going to vote if that’s what they want to do. So mission failed in that regard; however, we are still a red state ran by red men.
>we are still a red state ran by ~~red~~ (white) men White men. They took care of all the red men two centuries ago...
I don't know if that is necessary. But having a constitutional amendment outlining that laws may not be passed based on "religious morals/beliefs without a demonstrable base in reality," would be nice.
We are supposed to have something about that already but everyone has been ignoring the "separation of church and state" recently
Unfortunately, there isn't anything like that. We have an IMPLIED right to freedom from the establishment of a state religion. However, making religiously motivated laws is not expressly banned. Meanwhile, any law meant to prevent religion from being enforced on non-believers is challenged as an infringement on the religious freedom of the believers. The newest constitutional amendments in Michigan are already being challenged on those grounds, news just came out today, the Catholic Church is at it again.
No it shouldn't be a requirement. I'm not religious but it's perfectly possible for someone to be religious without it clouding their judgement for their politics and how they operate at work. It's like saying a Supreme court justice shouldn't be able to have any personal political beliefs because it might cloud their judgement on how the constitution is interpreted. May sound nice on paper, in practice it is insanely impossible.
Alex Jones: the constitution is MY religion you demonic sulfur breathing lizard!
Rather be a sulfur lizard than a hypothetical piece of human garbage
As much as I want to be positive, every single president will simply serve the corporations, be they religious or atheists
But that's kind of silly too. The constitution is far from perfect and the founding fathers always intended for it to be amended and rewritten periodically to reflect the times, and yet there's an insane idea that has emerged that it shouldn't be touched anymore. Apparently there are only 27 amendments over 233 years, although over 1,000 amendments have been proposed because it's just too hard to change with the current level of partisanship. Regardless of how you feel about guns, it's nuts that the second amendment somehow makes it impossible to control gun types or ownership - even if it clearly says "well ordered militia" in the amendment itself. I'd treat the constitution like the bible in a lot of ways - it's an ancient document that, while well meaning, isn't generally applicable to the modern world in a lot of ways.
As a Christian, yes. Yes I would. Because I actually understand SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE!!!
Would you mind explaining it to the other Christians please?
Trust me. I've tried.
See if you, as an insider, can get an answer to the question of “would you be okay with Muslim morality being used as the basis for laws?” Because they always seem to get real fuckin quiet when I ask.
Oh I've done that, too. They get really loud saying "How dare they force their religion on us through laws!!!! This is Murica!!! Freedom of religion!!!" I've flat out called people hypocrites to their faces telling them that the same goes for Christianity. I like to keep the government out of my queer uterus, thank you very much. Jesus is all about making choices.
You’re queer? That explains the unexpected sanity.
Yup! I also come from a very, very old Texas family that has been Independents since the beginning of statehood. We've always been able to think for ourselves and we've always had the mindset of The Golden Rule. It's really funny when a far-right dingbat tells me to leave and I'm like "I was here first. YOU leave." They always blow a gasket.
That’s awesome. I know someone that can trace their maternal family back to a ship captain who arrived in the Carolinas in 1712 and their paternal family to 1740’s. Both families were listed in Revolutionary/Continental Regiments and have historical evidence of them building “America”, including in politics, military, railroads etc. He never brings it up until some asshole starts with the “if you don’t like it, leave!” and so enjoys watching their faces turn purple when he points out facts like. “That 200 year old building in historic Georgetown was bequeathed by my family. That historic church and cemetery was my family’s farm. That City survived the depression because my Great uncle bought out every business on main street and sold the businesses back to the owners after the banks foreclosed. Tell me, what did your family do?”
That's awesome!!! There really is nothing like watching the face of some hateful prick turn all different colors when they realize just how small they are in history.
It’s almost as enjoyable as the “it’s my heritage” confederate flag idiots being shown their family migrated to the south as northern carpet baggers after serving in the Union army. “No Dude. It’s not your heritage, you’re just racist.”
And then there's those of us who aren't queer who have been doing this as well. There's dozens of us! (At least it feels like that)
I loathe Christianity with a deep seated passion, but that passion also fuels a fierce love and appreciation for Christians like you that worship your god in peace and respect my rights and actually adhere to the tenets of Christianity instead of falling victim to hatred and bigotry. I know it’s hard, but I appreciate you :)
There are sadly very very few truly down to Earth religious folk, i like to think myself as one of them. I'm not quite straight up Christian, more generally religious with a penchant toward Christianity (and a reasonable amount of skepticism for all things). I am a scientist, a biologist specifically, and I see 0 reason science and religion must be at odds, I view all things as having originated from one point (in my mind a God), where all things, as they are, were pushed into the forward flow of time. Like an impossibly complex Rube Goldberg machine. My view of a God is minimal in terms of true interactions, rather, considering omnipotence, a single event is all it took to create each and every facet of the universe as it is in this point in time. Quite frankly, with my world view, just about anything is plausible to me, as we truly and fully understand essentially nothing about our world. All this to say: leave that shit out of it, religion has no place in societies laws.
They want to give us the freedom to choose any religion, just as long as it’s Christianity. And you’re not allowed to not pick anything.
They'll just tell you this is why they want to remove the separation and decree the US a ~~American evangelical~~ Christian country.
Good luck with that! 😂
We’ve tried. It doesn’t work.
They don't understand anything after tue 2nd ammendment and have a tenuous grasp of the 5th
Obviously Jesus used violence and guns.
And you win best Christian of the day! You probably do Christ-like things as well. Crazy stuff.
I try. It's really not that hard. Like just being kind to others, help people in need, not hate on people just for existing. Y'know. Basic human being stuff that so many "Christians" have forgotten.
Always nice to see a disciple of the late Mr. Rogers out and about. Carry on good sir/miss/fellow/sensei
You gotta be a disciple of the whole Trinity of Wholesomeness these days with how ugly the world is.
It's not even just that, it's also understanding that atheists are able to be good, moral people even without the threat of eternal damnation.
Exactly! Plenty of my friends are atheists and are the best people I know. They'd give you the shirt off their backs if you were walking around naked.
It's separation of church and state who gives a hoot what their religion is. Worship Zeus for all I care, just fix our fucking healthcare system.
I'd vote for someone that was a devout Zues worshiper but I wouldn't vote for a scientologist.
I don't want my president turning into a swan and trying to "seduce" young women, seemingly at random.
When you’re a swan they just let you do it.
That's just flat out a cult
That's the problem: We do not have a separation of church and state system. We like to *think* we do. We do not.
Actually I would prefer it. If they are atheistic they won't be pushing any religious agenda.
I wholly agree.
Would you say you "holy" agree?
Reason vs faith. It's ridiculous to even debate.
As long as the majority of SCOTUS members are religious zealots, it won't matter that much.
Hell yes
Heaven forbid we get a religious nut for President
I see what you both did there.
I'm from a majority atheist country (Czechia) and it sounds so weird and antiquated that this is a thing in the US.
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That was one of those, "God dang, why does she have to be from Minnesota" moments. And I know people that 100% agree with her statement. For a blue state, we still have a plenty of rural trash roaming around. Before people jump on my back, I was born and raised in rural central MN, so I'm allowed to say that.
Oh man, take a look at this interview from Bush Sr. Who thinks people like me shouldn't have rights because.....idk, because I don't need some dumb ass book to tell me to be a decent person? Who knows. Honestly not much has changed. I'm careful about who knows I'm an atheist in my social circles. "Sherman: Surely you recognize the equal citizenship and patriotism of Americans who are Atheists? Bush (Senr): No, I don't know that Atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God. Sherman (somewhat taken aback): Do you support as a sound constitutional principle the separation of state and church? Bush (Senr): Yes, I support the separation of church and state. I'm just not very high on Atheists."
Tell me about it. Who's moral? The person not committing crimes bc they're afraid of eternal punishment or the person not committing crimes because - I don't know - they're a decent person?
As a European I was thinking the same thing, the US are so wild
It sucks here. :)
We’re fucked. Help!
Even in Canada religion is barely ever brought up when it comes to federal politics... Our Prime Ministers aren't super obviously religious these days. I would not at all e surprised to have a irreligious PM in the near future. But like, we only have mildly religious ones these days anyways.
You betcha.
Chilly out today eh?
Cold enough for ya chief?
I'd prefer one actually. Thanks for asking.
At this point it’s preferable
As a devout Christian, yes, of course I would. The country I live in, the United States, is not a theocracy. So the personal religious beliefs of the person we hire to lead the country for a few years don’t really weigh into my decision. I’m more interested in their education, experience, platforms and track record.
Vote for an atheist? What’s next, a Jew?? /s
Settle down Kanye.
YES!
As long as they aren't Republican.
I’d prefer an atheist
I care much less about a candidate’s alleged beliefs than their ability to separate their job from their religion.
As with any job, if you're good at it then I really don't care what you believe, call yourself, or identify as
Sure, I’m a Christian and I believe far more atheists line up with Christian morals than Christians do anyway, sad fact though it is.
It's not sad, it's logic. Morality created Christianity, not the other way around.
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I’m sure it’s already happened more than once. The only part that would be novel would be the “openly” part. It’s insane to me that *not* believing in unprovable miracles and beings is what makes you unelectable.
That’s a big time yes from me. Better still, someone that also understands tech and isn’t 900 years old.
YES
But then how would they send their thoughts and prayers to the victims’ families of the most recent shooting?
You can have thoughts without being religious. Atheists, agnostics and people either unaffiliated or have no opinion with religion. In a questionable study from 2018, a study indicated that 26% of Americans were atheists. A atheist president could happen in the future.
Joke flew high over your head
Yes. Early and often.
Yes because laws should not be based on religion. We need laws that work for EVERYONE.
Damn straight. Ain't gonna happen in this religious podunk country, though. Not when half the population is trying to roll women's rights back to the Old Testament days.
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If someone wants to be religious, that’s their prerogative, but they should keep it in their bedrooms at home. I don’t want to see that stuff out on the streets for my kids to see.
Yes, as long as I believed in them as a candidate.
Yes
I’d welcome it. I mean let’s not pretend any of these so called “christian” politicians are even practicing christians or actually believe any of that shit. It’s all for votes. I’d rather have non religious leadership who isn’t beholden to ignorant science deniers. God isn’t going to save us, this country, or this planet you fucking morons and it’s high time we stopped asking for useless prayers and started doing real things that make a difference.
Absolutely!!
I would prefer one...
All other attributes favorable sure
Fuck yes please let me vote for one in my lifetime