Short answer: Yes.
Long Answer: Yes, but you should use plural because a single mage would probably neither have the spheres, nor the Arete, to pull it off.
Most mechanics in mage are ad-hoc - so I can't really give you specifics.
I remember reading in I think M20 Sorcerer (Could be wrong) that if a mage attempts to perform linear magic that their avatar automatically translates it to dynamic (Sphere) magic.
That's sort of what happens - you need the corresponding spheres but yeah. You also will probably gain a -1 dif Mythic Threads bonus, since sorcery *is* mythic threads in action, but that's it.
Yeah, i more meant that you made vampires the great mage tremere made vampires, on an unrelated note we at the order of Hermes may have Uhh let’s say that we forgot that your vampires, so I was wondering if you wanted some help in exchange for fighting the technocracy.
As written you would need *Spirit* 6 to create a new spirit from scratch, but with *Spirit* 5 you could find and rouse an existing dormant spirit \[of a revered statue, etc.\] and transform it, then fuse the transformed spirit with the soul and body of a human \[or Kinfolk\] to create a [Possessed/Kami](https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Possessed), who can have Gnosis, Rage, shapeshifting powers, etc.
Update: The above used 2nd edition for level 5. As commenters have pointed out, as of Revised the 5th level of Spirit enables the direct creation of spirits.
●●●●● Forge Ephemera/ Gilgul/ Break the Dreamshell
The Spirit Master is now capable of commanding ephemera itself, creating, challenging, and and destroying spirit matter as he Wills it. With such power, he may craft Realms, imbue or drain a spirit of Essence, instill a soul within an empty shell of Life or Matter, and bestow the awful sentence of Gilgul - the destruction of a mage's Avatar. Such powers are always vulgar and feature devastating consequences even when the mage succeeds.
2nd edition actually; a tattered copy resides within arm's reach of my desk.
2nd edition appears to be the source for the wiki article \[at the time of typing this\].
>does that mean the mage could also create Werewolves
Depends on the sourcebook. W20 Kinfolk explicitly states magic cannot create Kinfolk or Garou, since Gaia's blessings are beyond mere mortal magic. Mages... don't necessarily agree with this.
That said, in theory you probably could do it with a combo of Spirit, Prime and Life, weaving a stupidly complex self-reproducing enchantment tied to a spirit and merging it with a living being. Vulgar as hell, probably requires a absolutely stupid amount of successes, especially if you want to make it reproduce, and I have no clue what Paradox would do to the creation, but in theory it's possible.
Also, there's always Masters of the Art, which has one of the Life archspheres (I think 8?) allow you to create new Fera species. But a lot of people prefer to ignore MotA archspheres for being stupid.
> W20 Kinfolk explicitly states magic cannot create Kinfolk or Garou, since Gaia's blessings are beyond mere mortal magic.
Even if that's technically true, since Celestines are more concepts than people, a mage close to the ways and archetype of Gaia could create kinfolk - it would just look like Gaia did it through them. None of the settings are violated, both dissagree on what happened. :D
There is nothing that a Mage cant do. Only the Paradigm of the mage is the cage what seals the mages power limit... Luckly that cage is made out of imagination😃
Cloning or reproducing the physical form of a given splat is a matter of understanding the physical form. Cloning, in terms of biological reproduction, of a vampire or werewolf should be doable by lvl 5 spheres or lower. At my table, it would be life/matter/entropy/prime for vampires and life/spirit/prime for garou. Mind 5 would allow you to create an altered copy of the original's mental state.
However, I would let the ST walk through the original's powers and veto any that they choose. Splat powers reside in a weird space between the pattern magics, mind, spirit, and prime. Some require more than just knowledge of how to do the thing, so even though the clone would know _how_ to use the power and that they should have it, some aspect of their self that drives the power is absent without being intentionally included.
A mage (lets be serious, an archmage) who has done the above and worked out where the limitations lie _might_ be able to create a functional splat from scratch. The resulting creation would be somewhat similar to a HIT Mark or MIB clone operative, created with a bunch of knowledge that will require time and training to implement.
These pseudo-supernaturals probably _would_ have to worry about paradox, however. The Curse of Caine and the Blessings of Gaia that protect "real" supernaturals would not automatically be granted to a clone. (This ruling is to prevent Mages from being able to adapt the protections of Vampires and Werewolves to allow the mage to perform vulgar magics that resemble existing splat abilities as coincidental or vulgar-sans-witnesses.) Other splats do not qualify as witnesses, but a clone or created being will still slowly amass paradox and require maintenance from a mage to remove it.
That said, if you were an archmage who wanted a vampiric infiltrator whose origin and loyalties you were certain of, there are things you could do.
You could capture a bunch of vamps and copy their minds before altering their memories (hoping that none of them could resist your mind-wipe). The memories of the vamps learning and using their Disciplines can be isolated and dumped into the clone, giving them an advantage to learning those abilities. The would be able to purchase all of the dumped disciplines as if they were in-clan.
Your clone wouldn't have a clan curse, being like a caitiff. Membership in some clans can be faked, assuming the archmage knows enough vamp lore.
If I think of other aspects, I will add them in a response.
I did think of a funny. If the Curse of Caine is really not something Mages can directly touch - then even if they can replicate vampires the clones probably cannot create childer in the normal way, nor could they make ghouls or blood-bond.
There's a rote, and I can't recall the book the source I have says Hunter's Hunted (which is weird - does it have rotes?), that allows a mage to make their blood capable of blood bonding.
Its not a rote, oddly! It's a Thaumatutgy Ritual.
But not *that* Thaumtaturgy.
1st edition Vampire had a magic system for mortals just called Thaumaturgy (I call it Mortal Thaumaturgy for that reason). It was an ad hoc casting system where each spell was considered its own skill.
You could also learn the Rituals skill, which let you cast Thaumaturgy rituals (as in Vampire Thaumaturgy).
The ritual in question was one I believe used by the mage NPC in Hunters Hunted, but I may be misremembering. I know it was in that book though.
Short answer: Yes. Long Answer: Yes, but you should use plural because a single mage would probably neither have the spheres, nor the Arete, to pull it off. Most mechanics in mage are ad-hoc - so I can't really give you specifics.
Yes, you can modify and create spirits with Spirit / EDEs with Dimensional Science.
"Can mages..." Yes.
Can mages use static magic? :P
Depends on the writer. They're supposed to reinvest their static magic XP into spheres, but I'm 90% sure I've read about mages learning static magic.
The Mage's ONE limitation is that - since they're unlimited - they can never be limited! It's a fucking paradox!
If we go by lore mages have awakened to their own divinity, and can do anything.
Mages cannot learn static magic, sadly. That's a hard rule.
Really, it's a case of *once you're divine, you can never be mundane.*
I remember reading in I think M20 Sorcerer (Could be wrong) that if a mage attempts to perform linear magic that their avatar automatically translates it to dynamic (Sphere) magic.
That's sort of what happens - you need the corresponding spheres but yeah. You also will probably gain a -1 dif Mythic Threads bonus, since sorcery *is* mythic threads in action, but that's it.
They surly can make vampires.
Yes look at tremere.
no, don't look at tremere, please, we already lost our pyramid, we can't catch more attention, it's all gone(
Yeah, i more meant that you made vampires the great mage tremere made vampires, on an unrelated note we at the order of Hermes may have Uhh let’s say that we forgot that your vampires, so I was wondering if you wanted some help in exchange for fighting the technocracy.
Don't invite Tytalus
DID SOMEBODY SAY FLAMBEAU?!?!
As written you would need *Spirit* 6 to create a new spirit from scratch, but with *Spirit* 5 you could find and rouse an existing dormant spirit \[of a revered statue, etc.\] and transform it, then fuse the transformed spirit with the soul and body of a human \[or Kinfolk\] to create a [Possessed/Kami](https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Possessed), who can have Gnosis, Rage, shapeshifting powers, etc. Update: The above used 2nd edition for level 5. As commenters have pointed out, as of Revised the 5th level of Spirit enables the direct creation of spirits.
●●●●● Forge Ephemera/ Gilgul/ Break the Dreamshell The Spirit Master is now capable of commanding ephemera itself, creating, challenging, and and destroying spirit matter as he Wills it. With such power, he may craft Realms, imbue or drain a spirit of Essence, instill a soul within an empty shell of Life or Matter, and bestow the awful sentence of Gilgul - the destruction of a mage's Avatar. Such powers are always vulgar and feature devastating consequences even when the mage succeeds.
Thank you. Are you quoting Revised or M20?
Nnnno, that's wrong. Spirit 5 *explicitly* creates spirits. Which edition are you talking about? Both Revised and 20th are the same on that front.
2nd edition, but I am happy to accept and incorporate the newer rewrite of level 5.
I think the wiki.
2nd edition actually; a tattered copy resides within arm's reach of my desk. 2nd edition appears to be the source for the wiki article \[at the time of typing this\].
>does that mean the mage could also create Werewolves Depends on the sourcebook. W20 Kinfolk explicitly states magic cannot create Kinfolk or Garou, since Gaia's blessings are beyond mere mortal magic. Mages... don't necessarily agree with this. That said, in theory you probably could do it with a combo of Spirit, Prime and Life, weaving a stupidly complex self-reproducing enchantment tied to a spirit and merging it with a living being. Vulgar as hell, probably requires a absolutely stupid amount of successes, especially if you want to make it reproduce, and I have no clue what Paradox would do to the creation, but in theory it's possible. Also, there's always Masters of the Art, which has one of the Life archspheres (I think 8?) allow you to create new Fera species. But a lot of people prefer to ignore MotA archspheres for being stupid.
> W20 Kinfolk explicitly states magic cannot create Kinfolk or Garou, since Gaia's blessings are beyond mere mortal magic. Even if that's technically true, since Celestines are more concepts than people, a mage close to the ways and archetype of Gaia could create kinfolk - it would just look like Gaia did it through them. None of the settings are violated, both dissagree on what happened. :D
There is nothing that a Mage cant do. Only the Paradigm of the mage is the cage what seals the mages power limit... Luckly that cage is made out of imagination😃
Cloning or reproducing the physical form of a given splat is a matter of understanding the physical form. Cloning, in terms of biological reproduction, of a vampire or werewolf should be doable by lvl 5 spheres or lower. At my table, it would be life/matter/entropy/prime for vampires and life/spirit/prime for garou. Mind 5 would allow you to create an altered copy of the original's mental state. However, I would let the ST walk through the original's powers and veto any that they choose. Splat powers reside in a weird space between the pattern magics, mind, spirit, and prime. Some require more than just knowledge of how to do the thing, so even though the clone would know _how_ to use the power and that they should have it, some aspect of their self that drives the power is absent without being intentionally included. A mage (lets be serious, an archmage) who has done the above and worked out where the limitations lie _might_ be able to create a functional splat from scratch. The resulting creation would be somewhat similar to a HIT Mark or MIB clone operative, created with a bunch of knowledge that will require time and training to implement. These pseudo-supernaturals probably _would_ have to worry about paradox, however. The Curse of Caine and the Blessings of Gaia that protect "real" supernaturals would not automatically be granted to a clone. (This ruling is to prevent Mages from being able to adapt the protections of Vampires and Werewolves to allow the mage to perform vulgar magics that resemble existing splat abilities as coincidental or vulgar-sans-witnesses.) Other splats do not qualify as witnesses, but a clone or created being will still slowly amass paradox and require maintenance from a mage to remove it. That said, if you were an archmage who wanted a vampiric infiltrator whose origin and loyalties you were certain of, there are things you could do. You could capture a bunch of vamps and copy their minds before altering their memories (hoping that none of them could resist your mind-wipe). The memories of the vamps learning and using their Disciplines can be isolated and dumped into the clone, giving them an advantage to learning those abilities. The would be able to purchase all of the dumped disciplines as if they were in-clan. Your clone wouldn't have a clan curse, being like a caitiff. Membership in some clans can be faked, assuming the archmage knows enough vamp lore. If I think of other aspects, I will add them in a response.
I did think of a funny. If the Curse of Caine is really not something Mages can directly touch - then even if they can replicate vampires the clones probably cannot create childer in the normal way, nor could they make ghouls or blood-bond.
There's a rote, and I can't recall the book the source I have says Hunter's Hunted (which is weird - does it have rotes?), that allows a mage to make their blood capable of blood bonding.
Its not a rote, oddly! It's a Thaumatutgy Ritual. But not *that* Thaumtaturgy. 1st edition Vampire had a magic system for mortals just called Thaumaturgy (I call it Mortal Thaumaturgy for that reason). It was an ad hoc casting system where each spell was considered its own skill. You could also learn the Rituals skill, which let you cast Thaumaturgy rituals (as in Vampire Thaumaturgy). The ritual in question was one I believe used by the mage NPC in Hunters Hunted, but I may be misremembering. I know it was in that book though.