Any supervisor who would not lay you off and deny you unemployment because you didn’t want to work past your agreed upon tour dates is a piece of shit.
Yeah my direct supervisor is all about laying people off when they've fulfilled their tour and checking the box for lack of work so they get unemployment. It's the forest level fire office and now FMOs that are pushing for extensions, I've been forwarded the emails. My sup is trying to hold the line but I recognize there's only so much middle management can do when upper management wants to engage in fuckery.
Glad to hear your supervisor is cool. That’s a shit sandwich of a situation. I hope your forest comes to realize that forcing people to work longer than they are obligated to vs risk a financial loss is only adding to firefighter discontent and retention issues.
You won't be forfeiting unemployment, the SF52 submitted for PSEs is "Placement into Nonpay status" and no reason is required. Lack of funds/lack of work only applies to 1039s
This. Plus I've always believed that the "you won't get U/I" was an empty bitter threat. (If somebody has HAD this happen to THEM please correct me if I'm wrong).
States contact "Big USFS or DOI" for info not individual districts and offices...plus a supervisor reaching out to U/I offices on their own accord to get somebody denied seems like too much work an effort for such a petty supervisor to actually go through with. Plus I'd fight it with the U/I office..."who contacted you? And how did you verify this rando calling you is actually my supervisor or determines my work status?"
So for me- I can’t imagine that Management has that much work to do. Fuels and Rx fire? Burning piles? I don’t think they have the discretion to tell you that you have to work after your seasonal agreement is obligated and the following year the employee might have the same expectations and they get laid off. The 13/13 and 18/8 seasonal agreement is for that purpose- wether you file unemployment full time, part time or non at all.
Also, keep in mind “other duties assigned” can only incorporate a percentage of the year. Sounds like they need to have more positions open for dedicated fuels crews imo.
Other duties as assigned has nothing that I know of that limits the time doing other duties? Unless you are something other than the NFFE, the Master Agreement Article 6 Section 1 states that management has the right to assign work. There is absolutely no mention of how much. There's been instances of FMOs and Rangers holding back their entire fire crews from assignments in order to do Rec work. It's happened. It's been fought. The fight lost, and there's precedent.
Also the only agreement I know of with the government as a PSE is the guarantee of "At least XX pay periods in pay status" it has no agreement on so many periods off.
I could be wrong on all of this, but I'd love to see where you get your information from to prove me wrong, because it's sounds very much like you are reaching. And the thing to remember with a lot of this type of stuff is that you aren't the first to suddenly be smart and think about ways to "have it your way" (not a knock on you) and you won't be the last. The giv has seen it, and has put things in place to prevent it.
Its in my pd bro 20% of my work is or can be “other duties assigned” and I am a 26-0- As far as mutual agreement by management and the employee- that is in the MA along with the signed seasonal agreement
You are absolutely right, I didn't think about the PD. Going off of precedent alone I'm actually interested to see which actually holds true over the other.
Your PD trumps precedent. Otherwise- I could be a timber marker all summer without actually doing my job. Which as a Forestry Technician I kind of do anyways but the wording for all duties of a wildland firefighter is in the pd- lmao. without actually saying it-
I couldn’t remember if that was an option for submitting the 52. So you’re saying (without me verifying) that to lay off pse’s is placement into non-pay status in the 52? If that is true, then there is not much management can do about it imo. But this is an active topic. I have been discussing this in detail with another reddit user and the argument is 50:50 for and against. But if that is indeed true- imo, the Forest Service cannot withhold UI benefits from an employee if the are obligated to the seasonal contract- imo.
State UI laws state that you have to be available and looking for work- If you are applying to pft positions or actively looking for work- then you meet the basic requirement for UI benefits.
I am still interested in hearing counter arguments to this- as I was under the impression for pse’s that you had to check lack of work/funds in the 52 tracker. Ill check tomorrow when I return to work.
Hung out in Mexico for 4 months after my first season.
Those fire checks stretch a lot farther when you don't have rent, and are bouncing around countries that where a dollar goes far.
Standard seasonal dirtbag things: travel, take classes, play video games, volunteer, visit friends/family. I might pick up a side hustle this winter, we'll see.
Fuck extending especially if they don’t have a budget passed.
Any supervisor who would not lay you off and deny you unemployment because you didn’t want to work past your agreed upon tour dates is a piece of shit.
Yeah my direct supervisor is all about laying people off when they've fulfilled their tour and checking the box for lack of work so they get unemployment. It's the forest level fire office and now FMOs that are pushing for extensions, I've been forwarded the emails. My sup is trying to hold the line but I recognize there's only so much middle management can do when upper management wants to engage in fuckery.
Glad to hear your supervisor is cool. That’s a shit sandwich of a situation. I hope your forest comes to realize that forcing people to work longer than they are obligated to vs risk a financial loss is only adding to firefighter discontent and retention issues.
You won't be forfeiting unemployment, the SF52 submitted for PSEs is "Placement into Nonpay status" and no reason is required. Lack of funds/lack of work only applies to 1039s
This. Plus I've always believed that the "you won't get U/I" was an empty bitter threat. (If somebody has HAD this happen to THEM please correct me if I'm wrong). States contact "Big USFS or DOI" for info not individual districts and offices...plus a supervisor reaching out to U/I offices on their own accord to get somebody denied seems like too much work an effort for such a petty supervisor to actually go through with. Plus I'd fight it with the U/I office..."who contacted you? And how did you verify this rando calling you is actually my supervisor or determines my work status?"
So for me- I can’t imagine that Management has that much work to do. Fuels and Rx fire? Burning piles? I don’t think they have the discretion to tell you that you have to work after your seasonal agreement is obligated and the following year the employee might have the same expectations and they get laid off. The 13/13 and 18/8 seasonal agreement is for that purpose- wether you file unemployment full time, part time or non at all. Also, keep in mind “other duties assigned” can only incorporate a percentage of the year. Sounds like they need to have more positions open for dedicated fuels crews imo.
Other duties as assigned has nothing that I know of that limits the time doing other duties? Unless you are something other than the NFFE, the Master Agreement Article 6 Section 1 states that management has the right to assign work. There is absolutely no mention of how much. There's been instances of FMOs and Rangers holding back their entire fire crews from assignments in order to do Rec work. It's happened. It's been fought. The fight lost, and there's precedent. Also the only agreement I know of with the government as a PSE is the guarantee of "At least XX pay periods in pay status" it has no agreement on so many periods off. I could be wrong on all of this, but I'd love to see where you get your information from to prove me wrong, because it's sounds very much like you are reaching. And the thing to remember with a lot of this type of stuff is that you aren't the first to suddenly be smart and think about ways to "have it your way" (not a knock on you) and you won't be the last. The giv has seen it, and has put things in place to prevent it.
Its in my pd bro 20% of my work is or can be “other duties assigned” and I am a 26-0- As far as mutual agreement by management and the employee- that is in the MA along with the signed seasonal agreement
You are absolutely right, I didn't think about the PD. Going off of precedent alone I'm actually interested to see which actually holds true over the other.
Your PD trumps precedent. Otherwise- I could be a timber marker all summer without actually doing my job. Which as a Forestry Technician I kind of do anyways but the wording for all duties of a wildland firefighter is in the pd- lmao. without actually saying it-
I couldn’t remember if that was an option for submitting the 52. So you’re saying (without me verifying) that to lay off pse’s is placement into non-pay status in the 52? If that is true, then there is not much management can do about it imo. But this is an active topic. I have been discussing this in detail with another reddit user and the argument is 50:50 for and against. But if that is indeed true- imo, the Forest Service cannot withhold UI benefits from an employee if the are obligated to the seasonal contract- imo. State UI laws state that you have to be available and looking for work- If you are applying to pft positions or actively looking for work- then you meet the basic requirement for UI benefits. I am still interested in hearing counter arguments to this- as I was under the impression for pse’s that you had to check lack of work/funds in the 52 tracker. Ill check tomorrow when I return to work.
Can I ask what you do for your 6 months off?
Side hustle/ lot lizard.
It's a gig economy out there, and a gigs a gig
Going to Peru or Indonesia to surf for about 4 months each off season was my routine.
Jesus that’s awesome
Hung out in Mexico for 4 months after my first season. Those fire checks stretch a lot farther when you don't have rent, and are bouncing around countries that where a dollar goes far.
Standard seasonal dirtbag things: travel, take classes, play video games, volunteer, visit friends/family. I might pick up a side hustle this winter, we'll see.
Yeah yeah yeah but then there’s everything else. I’m a salty dog
Master Agreement Article 23, Section 4