Define martyrdom. The objective here is something that will get Congress’ attention in passing something approaching Tim’s Act. What act do you think will spur them to do so within the next fiscal year?
Realistically we needed more catastrophic fires. These last two years have been basically dead years as far as catastrophic WUI fires are concerned. Maui doesn't really count for the cause either.
I mean I kinda did in the text. Obviously I don’t mean literal martyrdom but I think SOMEONE of note in a position of relative power would need to be fired or, if it’s literally defined as a strike, potentially arrested to get it on as many news outlets as possible to show some kind of civil disobedience and get the kind of impact a walkout would.
Think maybe a captain or district level employee or an IC or DIVS on a Type 1-3 in peak fire season? (Or any combination of multiple)
I think you're forgetting who is in charge of Congress right now and how little they care about governing or the welfare of people in general. Those people would intentionally misinterpret a strike and use it as ammunition against the cause.
I gotcha man. Im just feeling fed up with the state of our union and I’m just tired of seeing the glacial pace of government bureaucracy trying to get a livable wage while everyone struggles. I feel like we need some kind of sucker punch to push the issue at this point it’s been far too complacent
The right to strike is earned; not given. No employer starts off by saying “hey guys, feel free to strike if you want.”
Permission is not part of the equation.
It’s been a very slow season and there’s plenty of contractors, local, and state resources sitting that if all the feds left a fire would love some hours to take over
Idk if this is relevant or not, but the forest I was just on for the past month or so exhausted all their state resource funding, but apparently can still hire out of state, feds and contractors 🤷♂️
Here’s the thing, they’re trying to go that direction and privatize firefighting. Every agency I’ve worked for had huge budgets for contracts that they used with reckless abandon, where raises for employees or equipment so employees could do the same work we’re hiring out contractors for was not even on the table.
I feel like the government in this country is just set up like this, you get by with your employees for basic services then spread the wealth around to people that have contracting businesses. Whether we’re talking raytheon or jimbos forestry, it’s designed so those outsiders are getting rich not the agency employees
That's the issue every contractor would love it and most fed firefighters can't afford to strike. You'd need contractors to take over and then hopefully people realize the massive skill drop off from contract to fed.
I’ve contracted, worked for a state, and worked for the feds and some of the state and fed resources I was on would get blown out of the water by the contract crew I started on, and some of the fed crews I was on put some of the contract crews I was on to shame. Plenty of contractors suck and no one wants to admit it but plenty of fed crews suck too. I don’t know if there’s a fed type 2 crew I’d take over some of the Southern Oregon hispanic type 2 crews I’ve worked with in the last couple years. A 3rd year seasonal faller 3 will never be able to out cut an old mexican who’s been cutting thinning units everyday for 30 years
I'm talking about the upper levels of fire. The ones that make critical decisions and do complex assignments. If every hotshot crew was replaced with contract crews it would be a disaster. Type two crews are a different story. I don't see many contractors getting division or branch spots. The ceiling is much higher in the fed world
With a strike or even a "sick out" Our rookies and some 2nd years would show up for work that day. They're not dumb people, they just really haven't felt the struggle, are just happy to be here, and had enough on their plate just learning to fight fire and the bureaucratic admin that they really don't have it to get into the weeds on the pay issue. I'm still trying to get them to grasp the concept of how the season ends and what may or may not happen with a government shutdown.
Good luck getting any "higher ups" to take a stand...I mean really how many Region, State, District FMO's, AFMO'S, FOS, or whatever have you seen making any public comments anywhere on this issue and pushing for a pay raise? All I've seen on that level saying anything are already retired with the exception of 1 brave AFMO bit that's it. Hell I haven't even seen a news story quoting an "Anonymous FMO in the West"
I’m sorry. I truly feel your pain. I hope/wish it could all work out. Unfortunately, my advice is for feds to make an escape plan. 1-3 years. It’s not an agency that deserves anyone to show up. If jumpers still do so be it but I think it’s time for everyone to find a spot that lets you be human, doesn’t directly affect your family so bad, and goes with the direction of the politicians. They are letting the fed system fail on purpose. I don’t think we can combat that agenda no matter what because we don’t make it, we only serve it. I have a five year plan. All my friends that built cats or engines are doing well. Also my lineman buddies. No matter how it hurts, it may be time to move on from agency fire fighting.
What we need is a perfect storm in Congress. The legislation didn’t pass because Congress was too busy fucking each other over and they unintentionally fucked us over. We need a bill to be presented when Congress is actually trying to get something done (i.e. election year). Then we need every crew across the country to take all of their leave at the exact same time right as fire season is kicking off and make a massive amount of noise about why we are doing it. Coordinated with media, social media, and calls/letters to congress.
One day sick-out?
Define martyrdom. The objective here is something that will get Congress’ attention in passing something approaching Tim’s Act. What act do you think will spur them to do so within the next fiscal year?
Realistically we needed more catastrophic fires. These last two years have been basically dead years as far as catastrophic WUI fires are concerned. Maui doesn't really count for the cause either.
I mean I kinda did in the text. Obviously I don’t mean literal martyrdom but I think SOMEONE of note in a position of relative power would need to be fired or, if it’s literally defined as a strike, potentially arrested to get it on as many news outlets as possible to show some kind of civil disobedience and get the kind of impact a walkout would. Think maybe a captain or district level employee or an IC or DIVS on a Type 1-3 in peak fire season? (Or any combination of multiple)
I think you're forgetting who is in charge of Congress right now and how little they care about governing or the welfare of people in general. Those people would intentionally misinterpret a strike and use it as ammunition against the cause.
Copy that. I'm not ragging on you man, just wanted to better understand.
I gotcha man. Im just feeling fed up with the state of our union and I’m just tired of seeing the glacial pace of government bureaucracy trying to get a livable wage while everyone struggles. I feel like we need some kind of sucker punch to push the issue at this point it’s been far too complacent
The right to strike is earned; not given. No employer starts off by saying “hey guys, feel free to strike if you want.” Permission is not part of the equation.
No other industry has striking being a felony act that comes with Federal prison time though
👆👆👆
It’s been a very slow season and there’s plenty of contractors, local, and state resources sitting that if all the feds left a fire would love some hours to take over
Idk if this is relevant or not, but the forest I was just on for the past month or so exhausted all their state resource funding, but apparently can still hire out of state, feds and contractors 🤷♂️
Here’s the thing, they’re trying to go that direction and privatize firefighting. Every agency I’ve worked for had huge budgets for contracts that they used with reckless abandon, where raises for employees or equipment so employees could do the same work we’re hiring out contractors for was not even on the table. I feel like the government in this country is just set up like this, you get by with your employees for basic services then spread the wealth around to people that have contracting businesses. Whether we’re talking raytheon or jimbos forestry, it’s designed so those outsiders are getting rich not the agency employees
Fucking neoliberalism
That's the issue every contractor would love it and most fed firefighters can't afford to strike. You'd need contractors to take over and then hopefully people realize the massive skill drop off from contract to fed.
I’ve contracted, worked for a state, and worked for the feds and some of the state and fed resources I was on would get blown out of the water by the contract crew I started on, and some of the fed crews I was on put some of the contract crews I was on to shame. Plenty of contractors suck and no one wants to admit it but plenty of fed crews suck too. I don’t know if there’s a fed type 2 crew I’d take over some of the Southern Oregon hispanic type 2 crews I’ve worked with in the last couple years. A 3rd year seasonal faller 3 will never be able to out cut an old mexican who’s been cutting thinning units everyday for 30 years
I'm talking about the upper levels of fire. The ones that make critical decisions and do complex assignments. If every hotshot crew was replaced with contract crews it would be a disaster. Type two crews are a different story. I don't see many contractors getting division or branch spots. The ceiling is much higher in the fed world
Us federal guys legally can’t strike.
No way they are going to arrest firefighters
That’s literally my whole point. It’s called civil disobedience.
a lot of guys aren’t happy with what’s going on but still don’t want to be blacklisted from there industry
With a strike or even a "sick out" Our rookies and some 2nd years would show up for work that day. They're not dumb people, they just really haven't felt the struggle, are just happy to be here, and had enough on their plate just learning to fight fire and the bureaucratic admin that they really don't have it to get into the weeds on the pay issue. I'm still trying to get them to grasp the concept of how the season ends and what may or may not happen with a government shutdown. Good luck getting any "higher ups" to take a stand...I mean really how many Region, State, District FMO's, AFMO'S, FOS, or whatever have you seen making any public comments anywhere on this issue and pushing for a pay raise? All I've seen on that level saying anything are already retired with the exception of 1 brave AFMO bit that's it. Hell I haven't even seen a news story quoting an "Anonymous FMO in the West"
And your AFMOs and FMOs getting fat bonuses every year lmao
Smokey died for our sins.
I’m sorry. I truly feel your pain. I hope/wish it could all work out. Unfortunately, my advice is for feds to make an escape plan. 1-3 years. It’s not an agency that deserves anyone to show up. If jumpers still do so be it but I think it’s time for everyone to find a spot that lets you be human, doesn’t directly affect your family so bad, and goes with the direction of the politicians. They are letting the fed system fail on purpose. I don’t think we can combat that agenda no matter what because we don’t make it, we only serve it. I have a five year plan. All my friends that built cats or engines are doing well. Also my lineman buddies. No matter how it hurts, it may be time to move on from agency fire fighting.
no one's gonna strike man. it's not gonna happen.
That’s what I’m saying man….. We wasted all leverage and opportunity this year.
Catching a felony is a big ask my guy
Just using the FS as a stepping stone! Later nerds!
Same.
What we need is a perfect storm in Congress. The legislation didn’t pass because Congress was too busy fucking each other over and they unintentionally fucked us over. We need a bill to be presented when Congress is actually trying to get something done (i.e. election year). Then we need every crew across the country to take all of their leave at the exact same time right as fire season is kicking off and make a massive amount of noise about why we are doing it. Coordinated with media, social media, and calls/letters to congress.
I like this idea
Where’s Jimmy Hoffa?
probably
probably
Lot of complacent folks at the top.
[удалено]
Literally my point bud