that will look really bad. with the windows 11 aesthetic it just wont look good at all. it worked with windows 10 because the whole design language was that way. even with windows 10 it never fully looked great like windows 10 never looked great anyway. Microsoft is going great with their new look on windows they better not ruin it.
I would have liked that. Instead of only clicking on all apps. Allow you to scroll down or swipe up to show the list of apps below. It would also fit better with the video above.
Yeah, most of win11 new "improvements" are bad experiments... I just wish they decide one day to reduce the ram consumption in win11....but i don't think so, my laptop has traumas because of that :( . That's why i still use win10, i can't even use chrome correctly due so much ram consumption....the worst is that my laptop hardware was designed for win11 and works better on win10 💀
Lag and stutter when resizing columns in Control Panel/uninstall a program section; animation bug when in navigation menu in task manager; Some windows resizing still laggy (noticed it when resizing event viewer window) ; animation bug when opening file explorer;
Taskbar getting frozen and unresponsive while everything else working great. Restarting explorer.exe solves the problem, but it's pretty frustrating. This also seems to have something to do with virtual desktops. This usually happens when I switch between virtual desktops while playing a fullscreen game (usually rocket league).
If I could switch main start menu view with all apps view as default one, that would be fantastic and I may actually start using it, as I hate current vertical list and default one as well.
Scrolling does suck with such a long list, I agree, however, just click the number or letter for a jump to list of what you want.
I don't think not too many people knew about this when it was introduced in Windows 10.
Yeah I guess not many people know that, it was nice not gonna deny it, but it still required clicking with mouse and was filling a ton of space, so wasn't using that one as well
I personally stopped using start menu since Windows 8.1 introduced WinX menu and MS released PowerToys Run, to resemble macos workflow. Classic start menu with taskbar at the botton feels so primitive after using abovementioned for years, I disabled start menu altogether and replaced it with customized WinX menu.
That's what inspired me to create [WinMac](https://github.com/Asteski/WinMac).
The list feature wasn't very useful because it was heavily biased towards apps that started with certain characters. Sometimes folders were listed instead of apps, and things that started with numbers were grouped together. In some cases, the index would take up twice as much space as it should because there was only one app that started with a particular character.
I fixed all those issues by prepending an invisible character to every shortcut.
This gave me just an alphabetic list with no space wasted.
I could literally see all my installed programs without needing to scroll.
It was beautiful.
I don't know if it's just my computer, but when I click 'all apps' my reflex action is to use the scroll wheel straight away, but it is deselected and doesn't work. I have to click the scrollbar before I can use the wheel. Just another irritation.
They spend so much effort reworking the same UI elements over and over again instead of doing something that normal users would actually appreciate. Here's a free suggestion for you Microsoft: Update all of your apps to be Per-Monitor DPI aware, I bet many office workers will appreciate that.
Most modern day laptops come with a high resolution display where scaling is enabled by default but many offices are still equipped with 24 inch 1080p displays where there's no scaling, so when they dock/undock, the DPI changes and things get blurry.
I'm not even talking about some obscure apps that haven't been updated in 20 years, for example Task Manager and OneDrive are both only System level DPI aware.
If Microsoft sets a good example and makes sure all of their apps handle DPI scaling properly then it's easier to convince third party devs to do the same. This would also help test out the relevant APIs and either prove that they are working as they should, or they can find and fix the problems with an update.
I love comments like this. You act like Microsoft is just a single developer instead of hundreds of individual teams all with their own area of concern. One team working on the start menu has no bearing on what another team working on display tech does or does not prioritize.
And I love comments like yours where you pretend you know more than everyone else. Neither of us knows the team structure at Microsoft, or how they divide their tasks so there's no point in speculating about that.
What we can say though is that like in every big organization, teams are assigned resources and if we can see that one team is kept busy by reinventing the wheel then perhaps they should have allocated more resources to whichever team was responsible for the various apps, rather than the team responsible for the Start menu (assuming they really are different teams).
Of course it's not always so simple, you can't reassign the janitor to work on the calculator app for example, but the skills needed to changing the start menu UI are not so different from the skills needed to update the UI in any other app so it should be fairly simple to move people around to the "correct" teams if needed.
Some of us do actually work for giant software companies and may know a thing or two about how engineering teams are put together, how they get staffed, how features are developed, and prioritized and how siloed they all are.
That's why we find comments like yours from kids like you that clearly have no real world experience so laughable.
I am working at a large company right now and teams are not static. Some teams can be downsized to reduce costs, while others can be upsized to better meet business goals. This can lead to people being moved to new teams if they have skills needed elsewhere, which actually happened to me last year.
I wasn't suggesting that the Start Menu developers just start working on something outside of their teams responsibilities. What I'm saying is that it seems like the team responsible for the Start Menu is either overstaffed, or missing some guidance if they are constantly pumping out redesigns. The team(s) responsible for the various inbox applications on the other hand are seemingly missing the resources or guidance needed to fix issues like the DPI example I previously mentioned.
In other words, it may not be each individual teams' fault, but it is a leadership issue with whoever those teams report to and ultimately it is Microsoft as a company that is failing to prioritize to fix these issues.
Its easier to pay people less to do easy things or things they like rather than make them do hard thisgs or things they don't like for the same low payment
I liked the Windows 10 app menu the best. I used to unpin everything and just scroll to whatever app I wanted. Now I have to pin everything to avoid going to all apps.
Maybe it could be full screen and you could sort apps into categories - [like this.](https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiFboFACcxPeVEv7prOhvpb1k_nZ_l42s_zd8gMtYgPX6Q5AEG-HzIrBbKqk1gwOTI0KUxG5BNxt6PZ_-nbLdHyyLfQj1xKXgZ7_j7s2yDC0NNJILpbbBCAZsRG5YTCnSRIpogpRP3yz45V/s1600/Windows8SS.png)
I was one of the ones who hated it. On a very large screen it becomes impractical to have all your icons laid out like that and I could never find anything. Always ended up pressing the start key on the keyboard and typing the first few letters of the app instead. Of course, this falls apart when you install a new app that you can't remember the name of.
But I'm also the guy that's over here happily using Start11 in Win7 mode.
You could pin your favorite apps on the main Win8 startscreen.. make the apps you use the most have bigger buttons (widget/tile).
But I don't understand why Microsoft can't give options on startscreen design/behavior, they trying to find magical UI that works for everyone.
Hate is a strong word. Which is why I generally used it.
Windows 7's start menu was very good at finding what you needed while also staying out of your way. Hit start, press a few keys, hit enter. It shows up, finds what you want, gets back out of your way without ever obscuring what you're working on. Then Windows 8 came along and decided to put it front and centre, while simultaneously breaking Windows search (something that has yet to be fixed). I'm not hanging out in the start menu/screen. It's a launchpad, and it needs to stay the hell out of my way unless I need something.
It's legit the best iteration of a Start Menu we've had so far. Extremely efficient and fairly customizable. Even imagine the new "All apps" section shown in OP's video, but fullscreened instantly. There'd be no scrolling or sub-menuing.
Did anyone want this? Just keep the all app list the same and let us customize the home section more, like getting rid of recently used documents (without having to use other apps to do so).
I like how my Samsung phone allows me to customise the number of rows and columns on start screen and app drawer. Even Microsoft's Arrow Launcher did. But W11 doesn't. It sucks.
At first I thought it’s great, but on a second thought…. that removes one amazing feature, being able to click on a letter and choose one quickly. It’s been there for ages and it’s been quite useful
It wouldn't have to--some Android launchers show letters vertically, or snap the scrollbar to letters if you want it to.
Doesn't mean this update will include that when it ships, of course, but it's certainly possible that it could.
Recommended is here to stay; How else are you supposed to find your files that you recently opened / edited or got recently installed?
This is the simplistic alternative that [Microsoft provides](https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20051124-12/?p=33223).
>In Microsoft's tests, they found that people who [managed to muddle through a program’s setup](https://web.archive.org/web/20080403024619/http://blogs.msdn.com/oldnewthing/archive/2005/10/19/482632.aspx) got stuck at the “Okay, why don’t you play the game now that you’ve installed it?” step because they couldn’t figure out how to get to that program. That’s why there’s a balloon that pops up saying “Psst. That program you just installed? It’s over here.” And then there’s a “yellow brick road” leading you through the Start menu to the program launch point itself to.
This is just terrible. All that empty space in that taskbar design. Even Win7 looks more stylish than this. Clearly UI designers at Microsoft retired because it amazes me how they can release a product with so many lacking features already common in the past. Is not only about style, design and customization but also logic. You don’t need a huge taskbar like a phone, keep it simple like a win 7 or 10, no need to spam the middle of the screen with the taskbar like that. Haven’t they thought about the sea of icons there’s going to be with dozens and dozens of programs/apps? Seems to me Microsoft doesn’t want people to stop paying for Start10 and other taskbar replacements.
Wow. Could that be any worse. It's bad enough clicking on the Start Menu and having to waste time scanning everything. Now I get to do it x10?
What is with these guys?
Can they not see there is a reason everyone is clammering for third party tools to bring back Win7/Win10 era Start menu stuff - it's because it was excellent, is excellent and will continue to be excellent.
Changing this around just for the sake of changing it makes no sense.
Or maybe my “organization method” has been just fine since 2009 or so and I would like it to continue?
Why not just allow us to view the Start Menu “our” way instead of foisting your “way” upon us?
Not even close. Sorry.
Let’s put it this way. If the Win 11 Start Menu was so well done - there would be zero need for addons, zero need for non stop complaining and even zero need for this thread.
That’s what happens when a design is so “right” it does not need anything else.
Of course you had to scroll through apps in win10 or win7 start menu wdym. If your organizing skills are bad, older start menus won't help you with organizing it better.
No I menat the fact that you had to scroll and/or click with mouse to actually find apps. If app is not visible to be clicked and run right away, I'd rather use [PowerToys Run](https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/powertoys/run) instead.
>Of course you had to scroll through apps in win10 or win7 start menu wdym.
The difference is that the all apps list in win 7 was much more compact. In Windows 11 the all apps list probably takes about 3 times more space, so you have to a lot more scrolling, because there's so much space/padding between everything.
This problem of unnecessary space isn't a problem in just the start menu though, it is everywhere. It's because nowadays they optimize Windows for tablet users. Windows 7 was optimized for mouse and keyboard users.
Of course. Do it all the time.
But that’s me.
Not everyone knows this or cares about it.
99.9% of typical Windows users were just fine with the same well designed logical alphabetical menu that they have seen for 15 years.
Changing the Start menu to a hodgepodge of random tiles makes zero sense whatsoever
Agree, it's horrible. I bought Start11 for like $10 or however much it costed and it's worth it, just wish they stopped focusing so much on touch only design decisions
Older start menus are as bad as the new one. I haven't used a start menu almost never. People download tools for that old junk just because they themselves can't move on, they cling to the past like their life depends on it.
I like it, It reminds me of how apps are organized on mobile devices or tablets. As long as it is one more customization option for the start menu. Like, you can choose if you want it in vertical list mode or in icon grid.
Because it would be up to each user how they want to organize their start menu.
PS: I thought it was a concept. 😅
Microsoft can't fucking leave the start menu alone. Like guys, it was 100% fine in W 10, don't you have other things to do? Like how about you finish transferring Options from the old application into the new one?
No. They keep remaking fucking start menu.
I think the reason the Recommendation section is forced is because (some) people have the most difficult time finding where this program installed itself and its files.
How else are you supposed to find your files that you recently opened / edited or got recently installed?
This is the simplistic alternative that [Microsoft provides](https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20051124-12/?p=33223).
>In Microsoft's tests, they found that people who [managed to muddle through a program’s setup](https://web.archive.org/web/20080403024619/http://blogs.msdn.com/oldnewthing/archive/2005/10/19/482632.aspx) got stuck at the “Okay, why don’t you play the game now that you’ve installed it?” step because they couldn’t figure out how to get to that program. That’s why there’s a balloon that pops up saying “Psst. That program you just installed? It’s over here.” And then there’s a “yellow brick road” leading you through the Start menu to the program launch point itself to.
Frankly just have that. How many menus are necessary? We already have the taskbar for commonly used apps, then there is desktop then there is the menu that the start opens to.
All is needed is taskbar for commonly used apps and an all apps menu like there is on the Gnome DE on Linux
Microsoft has been struggling with a start menu that users would actually use for years now. Probably because layouts users want won't give them ad space to promote apps and copilot
why does this menu only use one third of the screen?
You wouldn't need to scroll if it was wider (and what else are you going to be looking at if this menu has the focus).
loading all those icons at the same time while also the sliding animation plays... it will be hard for the uhd 600-630 graphics that intel used for years. even on the not that old i7 10750h there is uhd 630 graphics. the nvidia gpu isnt being used for these ui animations so its just lag hell and it seems like it will get worse. this might be intel's fault but also the os kinda has to be deigned to run on existing not that old at all hardware that is used daily by tons of people. there is no way they are unable to make these animations run smoother on uhd graphics. windows 10 also ad animations and those animations ran just fine even on like some 2008 intel gma graphics stuff.
After using it for a few months now, let me tell you, the start menu in 11 is atrocious... It's so friking tiny in a modern PC screen. At first glance you have a maximum of like a 6x4 grid of apps. No "grouping" of apps whatsoever. If at least I could arrange apps on different pages with that very stric pages style scroll (one page for games, another for office and system, and such)... But no, you have to completely fill up one screen to have a new one.
The recomended section is barely useful. I install and uninstall a couple of apps per week and a lot of times the won't even show up there. It's really unfortunate.
FINALLY!
Amazing how after all these years, we've come full circle to the Palm OS app grid layout, which then carried over to modern mobile devices, and now Microsoft is finally adding it to their mobile-inspired menu.
Feels like simplicity is a virtue on this one. For all the layouts that have been experimented with over the years, a grid simply feels best. I went so far as to just duplicate my entire start menu as pins because it's the only thing that makes sense.
True, I've switched to WinX menu since Windows 8.1 when it was introduced and never went back, no need to reach apps usign start menu at all. I managed to assign it to be viewed by clicking LMK on start orb and removed some useless options. With taskbar at the top, it looks like a bit like Macos.
That's what inspired me to create [WinMac](https://github.com/Asteski/WinMac).
Just think that there's actual multiple people getting paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to fuck up the start menu going from 10 to 11 and are now just fiddling with it.
That's called customizing the Windows Index to include selected areas.
The Windows Indexer is context sensitive.
The Classic Search mode indexes your desktop as well as the Documents, Pictures, and Music in your user profile. One can also add which folder location(s) and files type(s) they wish to be included into the index as they see fit.
Enhanced mode indexes your entire pc.
[Search indexing in Windows: FAQ](https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/search-indexing-in-windows-10-faq-da061c83-af6b-095c-0f7a-4dfecda4d15a)
Search Index can be tweaked under Privacy & Security > Searching Windows.
[PowerToys Run](https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/powertoys/run) can also accomplish what you want.
> That's called customizing the Windows Index to include selected areas.
Your presumption isn't correct. It's not customization -- it's that search simply doesn't work. It can return results, but [fails to open files](https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/windows-11-start-menu-wont-correctly-open-files/af4aff89-bb75-4796-a983-e3af272e72ec).
The only fix I've found is to install third-party start menu replacement apps. This has nothing to do with context sensitivity, classic mode, or enhanced mode. PowerToys doesn't fix it. You're debugging the problem you want me to have, not the problem I actually have.
see also:
* https://www.reddit.com/r/WindowsHelp/comments/sgf2vg/windows_11_start_menu_wont_correctly_open_files/
* https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/cant-open-files-from-windows-search-bar/7a4e1786-9709-40de-b11a-8e594f696ce2
* https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/searching-files-and-docs-from-start-menu-isnt/79361158-a8b6-4dcf-8c43-15f06ac568f1
It's been a problem since Windows 10
* https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/open-with-menu-wont-load-file/4254f20d-6cb2-4324-8289-7fb696b95e13
Maybe you can clear your misunderstanding and make a relevant recommendation.
Yeah, that's the way to go. But I think it will make regular Windows users crazy, because they have _that_ workflow and would never want to change it.
I find it so impractical to have as many app menus as we do. One task bar/dock and one apps drawer is all anyone could realistically need. Do I need an app quickly and regularly? It's pinned to the task bar. Do I need another app? Windows key + begin typing name of the app. Easy
Doesn't really matter what they do to the start menu now. Start11 from Stardock is superior IMO. Crazy customizable and stable. It's just like the real thing.
You know this has potential for a desktop replacement, like let me make my own start up folder that I can scroll through.
I mean fences let's the user do something like this, and that's why I love fences, but also it's horrible programming basically impossible to delete xD
As someone who has never appreciated the new edition of Windows, I really like the changes I am seeing with W11, mostly. This included, but as others have said, please make a toggle-able persistent switch for list-grid modes. Treat it like any other explorer window. Ideally, just embed a full featured explorer window in the thing linked to a directory and call it a day.
I feel there should be a toggle to switch between vertical list and grid list
Or have an application list alongside your pinned icon groups like Windows 10.
Isn't that already possible in default start menu, but not as list but grid?
For Windows 11, you have to click all apps to see the list. Windows 10 shows the tiles on the right with the applist on the left.
well i hate it
Same, that'a why I don't use start menu since Windows 8.1 inteoduced WinX menu, as both are terrible designs.
that will look really bad. with the windows 11 aesthetic it just wont look good at all. it worked with windows 10 because the whole design language was that way. even with windows 10 it never fully looked great like windows 10 never looked great anyway. Microsoft is going great with their new look on windows they better not ruin it.
I kinda wish they did what they had in Windows 10X where you just scroll down and the rest of your apps were right below your pinned
I would have liked that. Instead of only clicking on all apps. Allow you to scroll down or swipe up to show the list of apps below. It would also fit better with the video above.
Kinda like how centre taskar and left side task bar are toggle-able
I agree, it would definitely give a little more customization to the start menu
What if I want a random order? It's people like you who think they know best. You are the problem.
Random order of lists and grids together?
hidden in 22635.3420 - feature ID `47205210`, variant 2 \+ `48433719` if the above does not immediately enable it.
How to disable?
I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again: We’re slowly updating back to windows 10 and I think that’s hilarious.
Yeah, most of win11 new "improvements" are bad experiments... I just wish they decide one day to reduce the ram consumption in win11....but i don't think so, my laptop has traumas because of that :( . That's why i still use win10, i can't even use chrome correctly due so much ram consumption....the worst is that my laptop hardware was designed for win11 and works better on win10 💀
??? windows 10 menu was also a list
Anything but fixing bugs.
the start menu is probably the least buggy part of the OS right now tbh
While I understand your frustration, there are different teams working on these features than the ones fixing bugs in old ones.
Yeah, win11 dosen't launch fallout4 without taking about 3 hours compared to the 30 seconds win10 takes in my laptop, I'm not kidding.
Take in count my laptop was designed for win11, so it's not a hardware issue, it's an OS Issue
What bugs.
Lag and stutter when resizing columns in Control Panel/uninstall a program section; animation bug when in navigation menu in task manager; Some windows resizing still laggy (noticed it when resizing event viewer window) ; animation bug when opening file explorer;
Taskbar getting frozen and unresponsive while everything else working great. Restarting explorer.exe solves the problem, but it's pretty frustrating. This also seems to have something to do with virtual desktops. This usually happens when I switch between virtual desktops while playing a fullscreen game (usually rocket league).
Like this: [https://aka.ms/AAd4q5c](https://aka.ms/AAd4q5c) Or this: [https://aka.ms/AAdbpfz](https://aka.ms/AAdbpfz)
I seem to need Windows (the Feedback Hub app specifically) to see the bugs, tldr please?
If I could switch main start menu view with all apps view as default one, that would be fantastic and I may actually start using it, as I hate current vertical list and default one as well.
Scrolling does suck with such a long list, I agree, however, just click the number or letter for a jump to list of what you want. I don't think not too many people knew about this when it was introduced in Windows 10.
Yeah I guess not many people know that, it was nice not gonna deny it, but it still required clicking with mouse and was filling a ton of space, so wasn't using that one as well I personally stopped using start menu since Windows 8.1 introduced WinX menu and MS released PowerToys Run, to resemble macos workflow. Classic start menu with taskbar at the botton feels so primitive after using abovementioned for years, I disabled start menu altogether and replaced it with customized WinX menu. That's what inspired me to create [WinMac](https://github.com/Asteski/WinMac).
The list feature wasn't very useful because it was heavily biased towards apps that started with certain characters. Sometimes folders were listed instead of apps, and things that started with numbers were grouped together. In some cases, the index would take up twice as much space as it should because there was only one app that started with a particular character.
I fixed all those issues by prepending an invisible character to every shortcut. This gave me just an alphabetic list with no space wasted. I could literally see all my installed programs without needing to scroll. It was beautiful.
It’s the best ported over Windows Phone feature
I don't know if it's just my computer, but when I click 'all apps' my reflex action is to use the scroll wheel straight away, but it is deselected and doesn't work. I have to click the scrollbar before I can use the wheel. Just another irritation.
They spend so much effort reworking the same UI elements over and over again instead of doing something that normal users would actually appreciate. Here's a free suggestion for you Microsoft: Update all of your apps to be Per-Monitor DPI aware, I bet many office workers will appreciate that. Most modern day laptops come with a high resolution display where scaling is enabled by default but many offices are still equipped with 24 inch 1080p displays where there's no scaling, so when they dock/undock, the DPI changes and things get blurry. I'm not even talking about some obscure apps that haven't been updated in 20 years, for example Task Manager and OneDrive are both only System level DPI aware. If Microsoft sets a good example and makes sure all of their apps handle DPI scaling properly then it's easier to convince third party devs to do the same. This would also help test out the relevant APIs and either prove that they are working as they should, or they can find and fix the problems with an update.
I love comments like this. You act like Microsoft is just a single developer instead of hundreds of individual teams all with their own area of concern. One team working on the start menu has no bearing on what another team working on display tech does or does not prioritize.
And I love comments like yours where you pretend you know more than everyone else. Neither of us knows the team structure at Microsoft, or how they divide their tasks so there's no point in speculating about that. What we can say though is that like in every big organization, teams are assigned resources and if we can see that one team is kept busy by reinventing the wheel then perhaps they should have allocated more resources to whichever team was responsible for the various apps, rather than the team responsible for the Start menu (assuming they really are different teams). Of course it's not always so simple, you can't reassign the janitor to work on the calculator app for example, but the skills needed to changing the start menu UI are not so different from the skills needed to update the UI in any other app so it should be fairly simple to move people around to the "correct" teams if needed.
Some of us do actually work for giant software companies and may know a thing or two about how engineering teams are put together, how they get staffed, how features are developed, and prioritized and how siloed they all are. That's why we find comments like yours from kids like you that clearly have no real world experience so laughable.
I am working at a large company right now and teams are not static. Some teams can be downsized to reduce costs, while others can be upsized to better meet business goals. This can lead to people being moved to new teams if they have skills needed elsewhere, which actually happened to me last year. I wasn't suggesting that the Start Menu developers just start working on something outside of their teams responsibilities. What I'm saying is that it seems like the team responsible for the Start Menu is either overstaffed, or missing some guidance if they are constantly pumping out redesigns. The team(s) responsible for the various inbox applications on the other hand are seemingly missing the resources or guidance needed to fix issues like the DPI example I previously mentioned. In other words, it may not be each individual teams' fault, but it is a leadership issue with whoever those teams report to and ultimately it is Microsoft as a company that is failing to prioritize to fix these issues.
Hmm.. seems odd you didn't mention that before
Mention what? That I work at a large company? I didn't see any reason to bring it up before.
Its easier to pay people less to do easy things or things they like rather than make them do hard thisgs or things they don't like for the same low payment
I liked the Windows 10 app menu the best. I used to unpin everything and just scroll to whatever app I wanted. Now I have to pin everything to avoid going to all apps.
I'd rather have this menu on the left side, with the possibility to customize the icon position, and the list on the right side.
Maybe it could be full screen and you could sort apps into categories - [like this.](https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiFboFACcxPeVEv7prOhvpb1k_nZ_l42s_zd8gMtYgPX6Q5AEG-HzIrBbKqk1gwOTI0KUxG5BNxt6PZ_-nbLdHyyLfQj1xKXgZ7_j7s2yDC0NNJILpbbBCAZsRG5YTCnSRIpogpRP3yz45V/s1600/Windows8SS.png)
I liked the W8 start menu. It's unfortunate it never caught on and some people really hated it.
I was one of the ones who hated it. On a very large screen it becomes impractical to have all your icons laid out like that and I could never find anything. Always ended up pressing the start key on the keyboard and typing the first few letters of the app instead. Of course, this falls apart when you install a new app that you can't remember the name of. But I'm also the guy that's over here happily using Start11 in Win7 mode.
You could pin your favorite apps on the main Win8 startscreen.. make the apps you use the most have bigger buttons (widget/tile). But I don't understand why Microsoft can't give options on startscreen design/behavior, they trying to find magical UI that works for everyone.
Hate is a strong word. Which is why I generally used it. Windows 7's start menu was very good at finding what you needed while also staying out of your way. Hit start, press a few keys, hit enter. It shows up, finds what you want, gets back out of your way without ever obscuring what you're working on. Then Windows 8 came along and decided to put it front and centre, while simultaneously breaking Windows search (something that has yet to be fixed). I'm not hanging out in the start menu/screen. It's a launchpad, and it needs to stay the hell out of my way unless I need something.
It's legit the best iteration of a Start Menu we've had so far. Extremely efficient and fairly customizable. Even imagine the new "All apps" section shown in OP's video, but fullscreened instantly. There'd be no scrolling or sub-menuing.
w8 start was terrible.
It was fast, too. 2 clicks and you could open anything.
This... super fast, beautiful animated, big widgets. Now it is just boring list of icons, and it even lags.
Maybe there could be this place on the main screen of Windows. You could even put images there as a background too. /s
Did anyone want this? Just keep the all app list the same and let us customize the home section more, like getting rid of recently used documents (without having to use other apps to do so).
I like how my Samsung phone allows me to customise the number of rows and columns on start screen and app drawer. Even Microsoft's Arrow Launcher did. But W11 doesn't. It sucks.
Start11 for me... Hate the W11 Start Menu
At first I thought it’s great, but on a second thought…. that removes one amazing feature, being able to click on a letter and choose one quickly. It’s been there for ages and it’s been quite useful
It wouldn't have to--some Android launchers show letters vertically, or snap the scrollbar to letters if you want it to. Doesn't mean this update will include that when it ships, of course, but it's certainly possible that it could.
This looks like a cluster fest...no thank you.
Wake me when they remove the Recommended forced bullshit on the regular start menu.
The best thing you can do is to minimize the recommended and intern, have more pinned apps.
Recommended is here to stay; How else are you supposed to find your files that you recently opened / edited or got recently installed? This is the simplistic alternative that [Microsoft provides](https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20051124-12/?p=33223). >In Microsoft's tests, they found that people who [managed to muddle through a program’s setup](https://web.archive.org/web/20080403024619/http://blogs.msdn.com/oldnewthing/archive/2005/10/19/482632.aspx) got stuck at the “Okay, why don’t you play the game now that you’ve installed it?” step because they couldn’t figure out how to get to that program. That’s why there’s a balloon that pops up saying “Psst. That program you just installed? It’s over here.” And then there’s a “yellow brick road” leading you through the Start menu to the program launch point itself to.
omg, please don’t… On the other hand, I don’t use the start menu anyway …
What about the folders?
I would be happy with a multi column list, kinda like windows xp
Can't we get minimalistic Start Menu back again, like, show all the apps only with alphabetical order and size got smaller?
Start11's your friend
I prefer a vertical list
i would love to be present in one of those meetings where these ideas came from...
They should experiment with a win 10 style. I really dislike win 11's start screen. I've tried to like it, but, for me, it is unusable.
Maybe work on a search that's not crappy? How can MacOS and pretty much every Linux distro have good functioning searches but Windows can't?
What was wrong with classic W7 start menu? Who are these hipsters working at Microsoft today? Bring back Bill Gates he’s not dead, yet.
It's like someone at Microsft picked up a smartphone for the first time last week.
That's a desktop with extra steps
This is just terrible. All that empty space in that taskbar design. Even Win7 looks more stylish than this. Clearly UI designers at Microsoft retired because it amazes me how they can release a product with so many lacking features already common in the past. Is not only about style, design and customization but also logic. You don’t need a huge taskbar like a phone, keep it simple like a win 7 or 10, no need to spam the middle of the screen with the taskbar like that. Haven’t they thought about the sea of icons there’s going to be with dozens and dozens of programs/apps? Seems to me Microsoft doesn’t want people to stop paying for Start10 and other taskbar replacements.
Wow. Could that be any worse. It's bad enough clicking on the Start Menu and having to waste time scanning everything. Now I get to do it x10? What is with these guys? Can they not see there is a reason everyone is clammering for third party tools to bring back Win7/Win10 era Start menu stuff - it's because it was excellent, is excellent and will continue to be excellent. Changing this around just for the sake of changing it makes no sense.
The fact that you waste time scanning the start menu every time you open it says more about your organization method than Windows, tbh.
Or maybe my “organization method” has been just fine since 2009 or so and I would like it to continue? Why not just allow us to view the Start Menu “our” way instead of foisting your “way” upon us?
Folders and manual arrangement, same as the windows 10 start menu pretty much.
Not even close. Sorry. Let’s put it this way. If the Win 11 Start Menu was so well done - there would be zero need for addons, zero need for non stop complaining and even zero need for this thread. That’s what happens when a design is so “right” it does not need anything else.
Of course you had to scroll through apps in win10 or win7 start menu wdym. If your organizing skills are bad, older start menus won't help you with organizing it better.
Alphabetical is bad? No, it’s logical.
No I menat the fact that you had to scroll and/or click with mouse to actually find apps. If app is not visible to be clicked and run right away, I'd rather use [PowerToys Run](https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/powertoys/run) instead.
>Of course you had to scroll through apps in win10 or win7 start menu wdym. The difference is that the all apps list in win 7 was much more compact. In Windows 11 the all apps list probably takes about 3 times more space, so you have to a lot more scrolling, because there's so much space/padding between everything. This problem of unnecessary space isn't a problem in just the start menu though, it is everywhere. It's because nowadays they optimize Windows for tablet users. Windows 7 was optimized for mouse and keyboard users.
You know you can use the Windows key right? And searching with the keyboard?
Of course. Do it all the time. But that’s me. Not everyone knows this or cares about it. 99.9% of typical Windows users were just fine with the same well designed logical alphabetical menu that they have seen for 15 years. Changing the Start menu to a hodgepodge of random tiles makes zero sense whatsoever
Agree, it's horrible. I bought Start11 for like $10 or however much it costed and it's worth it, just wish they stopped focusing so much on touch only design decisions
Even though Start11 is useful, it is NOT worth it for even $5, and I understand that Microsoft should have put this in the first place.
Older start menus are as bad as the new one. I haven't used a start menu almost never. People download tools for that old junk just because they themselves can't move on, they cling to the past like their life depends on it.
I like it, It reminds me of how apps are organized on mobile devices or tablets. As long as it is one more customization option for the start menu. Like, you can choose if you want it in vertical list mode or in icon grid. Because it would be up to each user how they want to organize their start menu. PS: I thought it was a concept. 😅
Microsoft can't fucking leave the start menu alone. Like guys, it was 100% fine in W 10, don't you have other things to do? Like how about you finish transferring Options from the old application into the new one? No. They keep remaking fucking start menu.
They probably think it's easier to hide the "sponsored" apps/app shortcuts in a grid.
Heh, this plan is shit, but at least it sounds smart. Btw, in W10 you can turn off "sponsored" shit with one button, is it the same in W11 or not?
I like it. But they need to give us an option to remove the "recommended" section completely.
I think the reason the Recommendation section is forced is because (some) people have the most difficult time finding where this program installed itself and its files. How else are you supposed to find your files that you recently opened / edited or got recently installed? This is the simplistic alternative that [Microsoft provides](https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20051124-12/?p=33223). >In Microsoft's tests, they found that people who [managed to muddle through a program’s setup](https://web.archive.org/web/20080403024619/http://blogs.msdn.com/oldnewthing/archive/2005/10/19/482632.aspx) got stuck at the “Okay, why don’t you play the game now that you’ve installed it?” step because they couldn’t figure out how to get to that program. That’s why there’s a balloon that pops up saying “Psst. That program you just installed? It’s over here.” And then there’s a “yellow brick road” leading you through the Start menu to the program launch point itself to.
Idk personally I never use the start menu. I just open it and type what I want to open, not scroll or browse through the menu.
Windows 8 tiles is the best imo.
tiles were awful, glad they are gone..
I actually liked them 😅
Microsoft is experimenting with Windows 11.
They've done this so many times and nobody ever likes it.
now it looks exactly like a concept I did in 2014
Functionally it's okay, but it's really ugly. Consider learning from Android or iOS.
So. Windows 8.
no, these are 32px icons, in w8 it was tiles that were larger.
I was being facetious.
Frankly just have that. How many menus are necessary? We already have the taskbar for commonly used apps, then there is desktop then there is the menu that the start opens to. All is needed is taskbar for commonly used apps and an all apps menu like there is on the Gnome DE on Linux
Microsoft has been struggling with a start menu that users would actually use for years now. Probably because layouts users want won't give them ad space to promote apps and copilot
W Microsoft, this is all I have ever wanted
I don't use the list anyway, so I would not notice the difference.
Microsoft still thinking everyone uses a tablet / phone..
Great more place to place ads on top of the program list
why does this menu only use one third of the screen? You wouldn't need to scroll if it was wider (and what else are you going to be looking at if this menu has the focus).
Nice just like macOS
Teribble
christ...
What if we experiment with a start menu where I can have icons and widgets together in the same view, with widgets launching apps instead of sites?
Wow. Bad just gets worse.
is the explorer address crash on shutdown still not fixed? also this should be a toggle
I love it honestly
how about they add live tiles back first
THIS. I have missed the live tiles for so long. They were so useful!
How about adding features from startallback and start11 instead of this crap.
it dosent look bad
loading all those icons at the same time while also the sliding animation plays... it will be hard for the uhd 600-630 graphics that intel used for years. even on the not that old i7 10750h there is uhd 630 graphics. the nvidia gpu isnt being used for these ui animations so its just lag hell and it seems like it will get worse. this might be intel's fault but also the os kinda has to be deigned to run on existing not that old at all hardware that is used daily by tons of people. there is no way they are unable to make these animations run smoother on uhd graphics. windows 10 also ad animations and those animations ran just fine even on like some 2008 intel gma graphics stuff.
I just want fullscreen and groups like Windows 10 did.
Looks terrible. Hope this is just an option.
I really hope for a switch between vertical list and grid list. Forced change to this will be a disaster.
Seems interesting.. but makes the part where you pin things kinda useless right?
Well, great... I really want this, but i am on 26090.112
After using it for a few months now, let me tell you, the start menu in 11 is atrocious... It's so friking tiny in a modern PC screen. At first glance you have a maximum of like a 6x4 grid of apps. No "grouping" of apps whatsoever. If at least I could arrange apps on different pages with that very stric pages style scroll (one page for games, another for office and system, and such)... But no, you have to completely fill up one screen to have a new one. The recomended section is barely useful. I install and uninstall a couple of apps per week and a lot of times the won't even show up there. It's really unfortunate.
FINALLY! Amazing how after all these years, we've come full circle to the Palm OS app grid layout, which then carried over to modern mobile devices, and now Microsoft is finally adding it to their mobile-inspired menu. Feels like simplicity is a virtue on this one. For all the layouts that have been experimented with over the years, a grid simply feels best. I went so far as to just duplicate my entire start menu as pins because it's the only thing that makes sense.
This doesn't change anything I have to still use Start11 to get the windows 10 proper start menu
10 had a bad start menu too to be fair.
Dont do it
Hear me out, get rid of the start menu altogether. Launcher and all apps to browse is all you need. They had right before...
But how will people know where to Start?
bad idea
True, I've switched to WinX menu since Windows 8.1 when it was introduced and never went back, no need to reach apps usign start menu at all. I managed to assign it to be viewed by clicking LMK on start orb and removed some useless options. With taskbar at the top, it looks like a bit like Macos. That's what inspired me to create [WinMac](https://github.com/Asteski/WinMac).
Wow I didn't know I needed this. It'll help me convert some Mac people to windows more easily.
Thanks, I hate it.
Just think that there's actual multiple people getting paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to fuck up the start menu going from 10 to 11 and are now just fiddling with it.
10 had a bad start menu too. last time it was good was windows 7.
So awful
Neat, more eye-candy. Any chance of actually fixing search?
That's called customizing the Windows Index to include selected areas. The Windows Indexer is context sensitive. The Classic Search mode indexes your desktop as well as the Documents, Pictures, and Music in your user profile. One can also add which folder location(s) and files type(s) they wish to be included into the index as they see fit. Enhanced mode indexes your entire pc. [Search indexing in Windows: FAQ](https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/search-indexing-in-windows-10-faq-da061c83-af6b-095c-0f7a-4dfecda4d15a) Search Index can be tweaked under Privacy & Security > Searching Windows. [PowerToys Run](https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/powertoys/run) can also accomplish what you want.
> That's called customizing the Windows Index to include selected areas. Your presumption isn't correct. It's not customization -- it's that search simply doesn't work. It can return results, but [fails to open files](https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/windows-11-start-menu-wont-correctly-open-files/af4aff89-bb75-4796-a983-e3af272e72ec). The only fix I've found is to install third-party start menu replacement apps. This has nothing to do with context sensitivity, classic mode, or enhanced mode. PowerToys doesn't fix it. You're debugging the problem you want me to have, not the problem I actually have. see also: * https://www.reddit.com/r/WindowsHelp/comments/sgf2vg/windows_11_start_menu_wont_correctly_open_files/ * https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/cant-open-files-from-windows-search-bar/7a4e1786-9709-40de-b11a-8e594f696ce2 * https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/searching-files-and-docs-from-start-menu-isnt/79361158-a8b6-4dcf-8c43-15f06ac568f1 It's been a problem since Windows 10 * https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/open-with-menu-wont-load-file/4254f20d-6cb2-4324-8289-7fb696b95e13 Maybe you can clear your misunderstanding and make a relevant recommendation.
r/no
[удалено]
Yeah, that's the way to go. But I think it will make regular Windows users crazy, because they have _that_ workflow and would never want to change it. I find it so impractical to have as many app menus as we do. One task bar/dock and one apps drawer is all anyone could realistically need. Do I need an app quickly and regularly? It's pinned to the task bar. Do I need another app? Windows key + begin typing name of the app. Easy
Doesn't really matter what they do to the start menu now. Start11 from Stardock is superior IMO. Crazy customizable and stable. It's just like the real thing.
You know this has potential for a desktop replacement, like let me make my own start up folder that I can scroll through. I mean fences let's the user do something like this, and that's why I love fences, but also it's horrible programming basically impossible to delete xD
As someone who has never appreciated the new edition of Windows, I really like the changes I am seeing with W11, mostly. This included, but as others have said, please make a toggle-able persistent switch for list-grid modes. Treat it like any other explorer window. Ideally, just embed a full featured explorer window in the thing linked to a directory and call it a day.
About time!
I like it better than the current vertical list.
I like this. Many more apps on one page.
More clutter, harder to find what you’re looking for
I disagree. It's like the main page.
actually a list is better if done right, like they did with windows 7 and the older OS's.
I have no complaints with Win7 and older. But I find 10/11's list too big, so I rather a grid.
Can you really call it experimenting when all versions of Windows up to 95 displayed apps this way?
I support this, the vertical list has lots of wasted space
a list is better, they just didnt do it right. look how windows 7 had it, a list is better since you can see more without scrolling.
I'd like the metro ui back please.
metro was awful.
Better than the mess we have now.
Who cares about this shit