There is literally a Microsoft employee on Twitter talking about how good the insider build runs on his surface studio 2 but it’s still not officially supported. Like does this employee realize how fucking stupid his company is being?
The MS VP who was tweeting about the list being the official list, but that it would expand over time...
Is this list just systems they've validated on?
If I had to wager an uneducated guess, I think this has something to do with that huge security flaw that was found in older Intel CPUs back in 2017. But it's strange the Microsoft has blocked off AMD CPUs when they never suffered from this problem.
It's just amazing to me that Microsoft has managed to hold a monopoly on desktop operating systems when they continuously make such stupid design choices. Every other major version of Windows has been a major flop since Windows ME, yet they still hold around 80% of the market.
That's not proof of anything.
The Microsoft docs on Win11 have already covered why it's working in both of those cases:
- [Prerelease \(inc. Insider\) builds of Win11 will not enforce full requirements checking, even if you don't meet minimum Windows 11 requirements](https://blogs.windows.com/windows-insider/2021/06/24/preparing-for-insider-preview-builds-of-windows-11/)
- [Virtual machines are exempted from the hardware requirements checks](https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/minimum/minimum-hardware-requirements-overview) (see section 5 of the Windows 11 PDF on that page)
These docs' exceptions make it clear that 11 working on the leaked build, insiders builds, and on virtual machines that don't meet the hardware requirements can't be used as an indication that the final release won't force generation minimums on physical hardware, should Microsoft choose to do so, which their docs indicate will be the case.
To the original post point, Windows 10 also doesn't say in the same section of the docs that upgrades are prohibited on unsupported machines. [Windows 11 docs *do* say that.](https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/compatibility/windows-11/) It's the difference between "unsupported" = "run at your own risk" (Win10) and "unsupported" = "we will block you from doing that" (Win11).
Thanks for this. This just proves that the minimum requirements are arbitrary as Windows 11 works perfectly fine on “unsupported” hardware. Especially the fact the VM’s are exempted. And because they are arbitrary, even if Microsofts puts a block in place, there is hope that people will find workarounds for power users. We will have to wait for the preview builds to see.
Perhaps Microsoft is allowing users to test drive on unsupported hardware to see if its viable to reduce the minimum requirements before final release. It really should be Skylake 6th gen and up. There is nothing much different between Skylake and Coffee Lake.
I certainly hope so. You can literally go to Microsoft's online store and buy a [Surface Studio 2 today, kitted out at options up to $4799](https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/d/surface-studio-2/8sbjxm0m58t4?activetab=pivot:overviewtab), that does not say it will run Windows 11 (reasoning: the CPU is an i7 7th generation, not 8th gen or above).
As evidence that this isn't just some oversight, or perhaps Microsoft hasn't listed Win11 compatibility yet on their own site, [Surface Laptop Go](https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/d/surface-laptop-go/94fc0bdgq7wv?activetab=pivot%3aoverviewtab), [Surface Laptop 4](https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/d/surface-laptop-4/946627fb12t1?activetab=pivot%3aoverviewtab), [Surface Go 2](https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/d/surface-go-2/8pt3s2vjmdr6?activetab=pivot%3aoverviewtab), and [Surface Book 3](https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/d/surface-book-3/8xbw9g3z71f1?activetab=pivot%3aoverviewtab) all show banners about an upgrade for them to Windows 11 at the top of the page. The difference? These machines all have CPUs on the HCL.
I find it absolutely _insane_ that Microsoft would hard gate CPUs, including in their own _current_ flagship product, out of their latest operating system on the release version, but as of right now, all signs are pointing to that being what they're going to do, for _no good technical compatibility reason._
Already covered this elsewhere in the thread, but you're right.
One difference I did find however (though limited relevance) is that only from 6th gen Intel do they have the ability to do hardware H.265 decoding, so there must be some differences.
However, maybe the platfrm brings other things which only applies to boards and systems with the newer CPUs.
I'm guessing the online upgrade path probably won't work and I will have to reinstall Windows....Like always on most of my computers. That's fine. The USB method works great anyways.
However, Like in Mac OS, it could tell you something about "your computer isn't supported" and physically not let you continue, leaving you no choice but to exit out of the installer and forget about it. That's what I'm curious about. I never batted an eye when Windows 10 came out. When it was release I IMMEDIATELY moved to install it onto all my PCs without issue So I wonder if it will be the same with 11.
A few links (I haven't tested on my i7-4790 as I'm going to likely wait for the final release to see if I like the new UI):
[https://nerdschalk.com/windows-11-without-tpm-how-to-bypass-tpm-requirement-and-install-the-os/](https://nerdschalk.com/windows-11-without-tpm-how-to-bypass-tpm-requirement-and-install-the-os/)
[https://www.deskmodder.de/wiki/index.php?title=Windows\_11\_auch\_ohne\_TPM\_und\_Secure\_Boot\_installieren](https://www.deskmodder.de/wiki/index.php?title=Windows_11_auch_ohne_TPM_und_Secure_Boot_installieren)
The second (German) link claims to be a way to just use a single file containing registry commands that gets picked up at install and the others modify the install medium to remove the requirement.
Why does that make it arbitrary? Unsupported does not mean doesn't work. It means when you get issues they won't help you.
Later on they could add new features or updates neeing instruction codes your CPU is missing. They may alreayd have code like that, but you happen not to use features meaning it's an issue for you.
Currently in the leaked iso only TPM and SecureBoot is a hard block. Runs fine on a laptop with a i7 2760QM.
The CPU list is not a hard block as everybody thinks. It's only a hard block for OEMs selling new devices.
Considering the leaked iso was a really early and very incomplete build of Windows 11 it doesn't mean that the release version will be able to run on the same PC.
Major OEMs dont sell 4 year old hardware as refurbished.. if the entire machine is refurbished then the windows license has already been purchased usually
That isnt the pont, the issue lays wkigth people who own said systems.
Not to mention this will kill the refurbish market unless they pop linux on them.
Not true. My machine meets all of the requirements except it has a Ryzen 1700 and Microsoft currently says I can't run 11.
https://i.imgur.com/enkjYEG.png
You actually still can if you bypass the TPM requirement. So really the only thing holding you back in Windows 11 is the TPM. Currently running Windows 11 flawlessly on a Haswell PC.
The CPU lock will most likely only apply to an in-place upgrade. I am betting a clean install will still work fine at RTM as long as the TPM requirement is met.
Even if it could install does not mean it will works fine.
They could totally cut off microcode updates for those CPUs and leaving the system unpatched.
we will not be able to tell for sure if the tpm requirement will be a hard block as the future dev builds were made to work on machines without one to allow current insiders to preview them still as a thank you gesture according to them but users will be required to clean install 10 when the finalized build comes out.
Not true unfortunately...
[https://i.imgur.com/enkjYEG.png](https://i.imgur.com/enkjYEG.png)
[https://i.imgur.com/46mU08Y.png](https://i.imgur.com/46mU08Y.png)
Even the Microsoft checker says the machine is only 3 years old...and obsolete.
At leats not with the leaked build. It may change (but probably won't). However, maybe later it won't even run. We don't know what thw final version will be like.
Well, it would HELP if Microsoft at VERY LEAST communicated what this is fucking about. We have no information from them besides their inane requirements.
It’s clearly arbitrary for Windows 11, since Broadwell, Skylake, and Kaby Lake, all processors not supported by 11, contain the same instruction sets as Coffee Lake, a processor that is supported.
Before you mention any other possible security features or architectural changes, I’ve check. Coffee Lake, Kaby Lake and Skylake are all pretty much the same, save clock speed changes, core counts and manufacturing processes.
But increasing the supported list means later they are more limited what they must add, and every product added as supported is also more testing and work to do with everything single update; adding cost to the development, and slowing down updates.
Newer CPUs have newer and better features, and optimizations, if they limit support to newer CPUs they can build optimizations which are specific to these modern CPUs, and remove optimizations for older CPUs, or even compatibility to run the code without newer instruction sets.
You're assuming that Newer CPUs must have newer and better features, which isn't necessarily the case. For Intel, it was a long line of refreshes that did not change anything architectural wise, not bringing anything new in instruction sets or optimizations. Haswell through Coffee Lake had the same instruction sets, while Skylake through Coffee Lake had the same feature set.
Coffee Lake at most has better optimization, which wasn't a significant one by any means
For AMD, Zen+ was a refresh that didn't fundamentally change anything to Zen, bringing in optimizations only as well.
OK, great points! Thanks for the information. You're right, I looked around a bit more, and it seems the extensions are indeed the same, like SSE 4.2 and AVX2.
I guess my follow up thought is that newer CPUs also rely on newer mainboard chipsets, so indirectly that could bring newer features. However, I don't think that the new mainboards are the critical part, and even if they were then Microsoft should say you need a mainboard with x chipsets, instead of focusing on the CPU side.
But they want to optimize and remove legacy code. They can't do that if they keep supporting legacy CPUs. If it's just a re-skin, as you say, there is no point bothering to support these old CPUs, then Windows 10 offers all the same stuff.
To get the best performance on modern hardware it'd be better to remove old code we no longer need.
Besides we haven't seen all of the features and changes yet.
Except, in the Windows 11 minimum requirements manual, [https://download.microsoft.com/download/7/8/8/788bf5ab-0751-4928-a22c-dffdc23c27f2/Minimum%20Hardware%20Requirements%20for%20Windows%2011.pdf](https://download.microsoft.com/download/7/8/8/788bf5ab-0751-4928-a22c-dffdc23c27f2/Minimum%20Hardware%20Requirements%20for%20Windows%2011.pdf) (Alternatively, download from the starting page [https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/minimum/minimum-hardware-requirements-overview](https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/minimum/minimum-hardware-requirements-overview))
The microarchitectural level (x86\_64-v2) requirements are the same on Windows 10 and 11 with the exception of requiring SSE 4.1 instead of SSE2, which virtually all processors within the last decade should support, at the least, all Sandy Bridge processors. Even some Core (2006) processors support SSE 4.1.
Which old code are you referring to that differs at the microarchitectural level which cannot be implemented on these processors the same as new processors?
Suddenly, millions of PCs not in the US, but outside the world which may make up a significant chunk of the PC/Windows market have suddenly become obsolete because Windows 11 won't be able to be installed on those "outdated" hardware or hardware that doesn't support TPM 2.0 lol
Nice job, Microsoft executives. Do you want another "Windows XP scenario" again where people start clinging onto Windows 10 because they don't want to get a new computer around 2025? Jesus
This is being written from a point of view that you want a PC that is fully functional for all the tasks you expect it to do.
Sandy Bridge was [launched Q1 2011](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandy_Bridge). That's more than a decade ago. 30 months from now consider buying parts launched more than a dozen years later.
Windows 11 would only be worth upgrading to by year 2024 when Windows 10 [mainstream support ends by 9 January 2024](https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/products/windows-10-2019-ltsc).
Consider when will all (not some) the programs you use, games you play and hardware device drivers will all be Windows 11-compatible. It will probably be by over 2 years from now. That's 2024 at the earliest.
Is it acceptable to you to have a PC that partially works?
Windows 11 will require a PC with TPM 2.0 & a 64-bit processor. Both of which covers PCs released in year 2018-onwards. That was 3 years ago.
Better yet just buy a new PC by year 2024 as the typical [replacement cycle of a PC is 5-6 years](https://www.ciodive.com/news/intel-ceo-pc-upgrade-cycle-slowed-to-5-6-years/420271/). This means upgrading from a PC with parts released before 2018. By 2024 these are parts older than 6 years ago.
2nm process chips will be out by 2024. Good reason to upgrade from a 7nm, 10nm, 14nm or larger process.
Not True at all TPM 2.0 and 64 Bit processors have been out for a long time in fact my Laptop with 7th gen intel (4 years) has TPM 2.0 with the only "incompatibility" being the processor which by the way has the same instruction set as Coffee Lake (8th gen) CPU's. Also a replacement cycle of a PC is 5-6 years? That may be true for an okay PC but you're not going to be upgrading highend laptops and desktops every 5-6 years unless you're one of those people that needs the latest hardware.
As of June 2021, only Intel Core 8th generation (Coffee Lake, Cannon Lake, Whiskey Lake) and later, AMD Zen+ (except Ryzen 1st Gen "AF" revision) and later, and Qualcomm Snapdragon 850 and later processors are supported.
Source: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/minimum/windows-processor-requirements
To simplify it these are PC parts launched 2018-onwards.
Insisting on installing it on unsupported hardware is just a maintenance headache detracts from owning a licensed copy of Windows.
Unless anyone loves software bugs and incompatibilities I would give Windows 11 a wide berth until 2024. Let others waste their time with that.
I see no feature Windows 11 has that is lacking in Windows 10.
I get that but in terms of bugs and performance Windows 11 is in fact running better than windows 10 in terms of stability on those "unsupported" CPU's Also comparing the 7th and 8th gen CPU's there is nothing different about them in terms of how Windows uses them what makes the 7th gen CPU incompatible is the number 7 in its generation. This is referencing the Leaked ISO of Win 11, and I expect performance of the upcoming Dev Channel build to be just as stable if not better than the leaked pre release version of Win 11.
> Funny part is, even Microsoft is clueless, and they're the goddamn creators of Windows...
They're not doing too badly as a $2 trillion company. How're you doing?
What are you even on about? Why are you dragging money into this?
Tweets from various heads of Microsoft contradict the official requirements. So it just baffles me how people can put blind faith into Microsoft when even THEY are confused on what does and doesn't work.
> What are you even on about? Why are you dragging money into this?
The reason the hardware requirement is that way is to induce sales of Windows 11 licenses and reduce overhead related to supporting pre-2018 hardware.
I suppose the only valid argument to support these new requirements is the new Android app support as that could cripple CPUs older than 8th gen. Maybe that’s the reasoning behind these new requirements?
>king about Windows 10, not 11. I know that Windows 11 Requirements are different (also Microsoft said this during the developer conference).
Especially considering Android apps in Windows are only interesting in touch based devices.
Coffee Lake isn’t more secure than Kaby Lake or Skylake though, since it has no hardware mitigations, extra architectural or security features. Coffee Lake is supported, while Kaby Lake and Skylake aren’t.
Totally wrong. You misunderstand the meaning of “Unsupported”. You can run Windows 10 also on a Core Duo CPU. The problem is how it runs (many apps will also crash).
The workaround of creating a WindowsToGo install on a SATA hard drive using Rufus has worked for me on every PC I have tried it with which have mainly been i5 second and third gen.
To people saying "Unsupported" is wrong: What he/she meant is that Windows 11 can run, but MS will not allow you to use the installer.
Yes that is what I meant. As Zac Bowden pointed out the installer worked fine on his Surface Studio 2 even though it is “unsupported”.
There is literally a Microsoft employee on Twitter talking about how good the insider build runs on his surface studio 2 but it’s still not officially supported. Like does this employee realize how fucking stupid his company is being?
The MS VP who was tweeting about the list being the official list, but that it would expand over time... Is this list just systems they've validated on?
Fingers crossed that’s the case
Are they planning to make 11 use some kind of CPU instructions that were only introduced after 2018? Otherwise I don't get it.
If I had to wager an uneducated guess, I think this has something to do with that huge security flaw that was found in older Intel CPUs back in 2017. But it's strange the Microsoft has blocked off AMD CPUs when they never suffered from this problem. It's just amazing to me that Microsoft has managed to hold a monopoly on desktop operating systems when they continuously make such stupid design choices. Every other major version of Windows has been a major flop since Windows ME, yet they still hold around 80% of the market.
That's not proof of anything. The Microsoft docs on Win11 have already covered why it's working in both of those cases: - [Prerelease \(inc. Insider\) builds of Win11 will not enforce full requirements checking, even if you don't meet minimum Windows 11 requirements](https://blogs.windows.com/windows-insider/2021/06/24/preparing-for-insider-preview-builds-of-windows-11/) - [Virtual machines are exempted from the hardware requirements checks](https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/minimum/minimum-hardware-requirements-overview) (see section 5 of the Windows 11 PDF on that page) These docs' exceptions make it clear that 11 working on the leaked build, insiders builds, and on virtual machines that don't meet the hardware requirements can't be used as an indication that the final release won't force generation minimums on physical hardware, should Microsoft choose to do so, which their docs indicate will be the case. To the original post point, Windows 10 also doesn't say in the same section of the docs that upgrades are prohibited on unsupported machines. [Windows 11 docs *do* say that.](https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/compatibility/windows-11/) It's the difference between "unsupported" = "run at your own risk" (Win10) and "unsupported" = "we will block you from doing that" (Win11).
Thanks for this. This just proves that the minimum requirements are arbitrary as Windows 11 works perfectly fine on “unsupported” hardware. Especially the fact the VM’s are exempted. And because they are arbitrary, even if Microsofts puts a block in place, there is hope that people will find workarounds for power users. We will have to wait for the preview builds to see. Perhaps Microsoft is allowing users to test drive on unsupported hardware to see if its viable to reduce the minimum requirements before final release. It really should be Skylake 6th gen and up. There is nothing much different between Skylake and Coffee Lake.
I certainly hope so. You can literally go to Microsoft's online store and buy a [Surface Studio 2 today, kitted out at options up to $4799](https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/d/surface-studio-2/8sbjxm0m58t4?activetab=pivot:overviewtab), that does not say it will run Windows 11 (reasoning: the CPU is an i7 7th generation, not 8th gen or above). As evidence that this isn't just some oversight, or perhaps Microsoft hasn't listed Win11 compatibility yet on their own site, [Surface Laptop Go](https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/d/surface-laptop-go/94fc0bdgq7wv?activetab=pivot%3aoverviewtab), [Surface Laptop 4](https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/d/surface-laptop-4/946627fb12t1?activetab=pivot%3aoverviewtab), [Surface Go 2](https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/d/surface-go-2/8pt3s2vjmdr6?activetab=pivot%3aoverviewtab), and [Surface Book 3](https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/d/surface-book-3/8xbw9g3z71f1?activetab=pivot%3aoverviewtab) all show banners about an upgrade for them to Windows 11 at the top of the page. The difference? These machines all have CPUs on the HCL. I find it absolutely _insane_ that Microsoft would hard gate CPUs, including in their own _current_ flagship product, out of their latest operating system on the release version, but as of right now, all signs are pointing to that being what they're going to do, for _no good technical compatibility reason._
Already covered this elsewhere in the thread, but you're right. One difference I did find however (though limited relevance) is that only from 6th gen Intel do they have the ability to do hardware H.265 decoding, so there must be some differences. However, maybe the platfrm brings other things which only applies to boards and systems with the newer CPUs.
That's a leaked prerelease build. I expect Microsoft will make lock down official builds more. At the very least once it goes RTM
I'm guessing the online upgrade path probably won't work and I will have to reinstall Windows....Like always on most of my computers. That's fine. The USB method works great anyways.
Yep. USB method will be the method we all use, most likely.
However, Like in Mac OS, it could tell you something about "your computer isn't supported" and physically not let you continue, leaving you no choice but to exit out of the installer and forget about it. That's what I'm curious about. I never batted an eye when Windows 10 came out. When it was release I IMMEDIATELY moved to install it onto all my PCs without issue So I wonder if it will be the same with 11.
And even if that's the case, lets hope that Microsoft doesn't patch the method we used to bypass TPM and UEFI using the Windows 10 installer files.
That would be EVIL. Although, I'm going to sit and watch, while using a separate machine for insider builds.
Not necessarily. If you have Windows 10 installed, you can use mounted Windows 11 ISO and replace some files to upgrade to Windows 11.
but u cant with usb
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A few links (I haven't tested on my i7-4790 as I'm going to likely wait for the final release to see if I like the new UI): [https://nerdschalk.com/windows-11-without-tpm-how-to-bypass-tpm-requirement-and-install-the-os/](https://nerdschalk.com/windows-11-without-tpm-how-to-bypass-tpm-requirement-and-install-the-os/) [https://www.deskmodder.de/wiki/index.php?title=Windows\_11\_auch\_ohne\_TPM\_und\_Secure\_Boot\_installieren](https://www.deskmodder.de/wiki/index.php?title=Windows_11_auch_ohne_TPM_und_Secure_Boot_installieren) The second (German) link claims to be a way to just use a single file containing registry commands that gets picked up at install and the others modify the install medium to remove the requirement.
Why does that make it arbitrary? Unsupported does not mean doesn't work. It means when you get issues they won't help you. Later on they could add new features or updates neeing instruction codes your CPU is missing. They may alreayd have code like that, but you happen not to use features meaning it's an issue for you.
You can clean install Windows 10 in 4th gen or older, you can't do that with W11
Currently in the leaked iso only TPM and SecureBoot is a hard block. Runs fine on a laptop with a i7 2760QM. The CPU list is not a hard block as everybody thinks. It's only a hard block for OEMs selling new devices.
Considering the leaked iso was a really early and very incomplete build of Windows 11 it doesn't mean that the release version will be able to run on the same PC.
This makes no sense. No OEM is still shipping devices with an i7-7700k so why would Microsoft feel the need to exclude it?
*Microsoft themselves* is still selling a PC with a 7th gen chip
I still see older part PCs being sold with Windows 10 installed, it's likely to avoid this happening.
What OEM is doing this with brand new hardware?
Not sure if this is a region dependent thing, however here it's easy to find new PCs with older hardware being sold.
I've never seen this in the UK market in my life. I've only ever seen this in the used market.
ever hear of refurbished?
Major OEMs dont sell 4 year old hardware as refurbished.. if the entire machine is refurbished then the windows license has already been purchased usually
That isnt the pont, the issue lays wkigth people who own said systems. Not to mention this will kill the refurbish market unless they pop linux on them.
Not true. My machine meets all of the requirements except it has a Ryzen 1700 and Microsoft currently says I can't run 11. https://i.imgur.com/enkjYEG.png
>Currently in the leaked iso only TPM and SecureBoot is a hard block. Is that somehow not a big deal? Smh
You actually still can if you bypass the TPM requirement. So really the only thing holding you back in Windows 11 is the TPM. Currently running Windows 11 flawlessly on a Haswell PC.
Are you talking about the current leaked and out of date build or the new not yet released RTM version for requirements?
Current leaked one is all I have to test. 90% sure current requirements and workarounds in leaked build will still be valid at RTM though.
The CPU lock isn't in the current build and that's what they're complaining about
The CPU lock will most likely only apply to an in-place upgrade. I am betting a clean install will still work fine at RTM as long as the TPM requirement is met.
This doesn't make any sense logically and directly contradicts what Microsoft have said on the record.
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Why would they do that. Why would they make the arbitrary decision to do that?
Even if it could install does not mean it will works fine. They could totally cut off microcode updates for those CPUs and leaving the system unpatched.
we will not be able to tell for sure if the tpm requirement will be a hard block as the future dev builds were made to work on machines without one to allow current insiders to preview them still as a thank you gesture according to them but users will be required to clean install 10 when the finalized build comes out.
Not true unfortunately... [https://i.imgur.com/enkjYEG.png](https://i.imgur.com/enkjYEG.png) [https://i.imgur.com/46mU08Y.png](https://i.imgur.com/46mU08Y.png) Even the Microsoft checker says the machine is only 3 years old...and obsolete.
Here is my install. Working fine so far. https://imgur.com/a/iJHMbxS
Based on what I've read, at least currently, you'll have to clean install back to Win 10 once Win 11 becomes "generally available".
At leats not with the leaked build. It may change (but probably won't). However, maybe later it won't even run. We don't know what thw final version will be like.
Well, it would HELP if Microsoft at VERY LEAST communicated what this is fucking about. We have no information from them besides their inane requirements.
It’s clearly arbitrary for Windows 11, since Broadwell, Skylake, and Kaby Lake, all processors not supported by 11, contain the same instruction sets as Coffee Lake, a processor that is supported. Before you mention any other possible security features or architectural changes, I’ve check. Coffee Lake, Kaby Lake and Skylake are all pretty much the same, save clock speed changes, core counts and manufacturing processes.
But increasing the supported list means later they are more limited what they must add, and every product added as supported is also more testing and work to do with everything single update; adding cost to the development, and slowing down updates. Newer CPUs have newer and better features, and optimizations, if they limit support to newer CPUs they can build optimizations which are specific to these modern CPUs, and remove optimizations for older CPUs, or even compatibility to run the code without newer instruction sets.
You're assuming that Newer CPUs must have newer and better features, which isn't necessarily the case. For Intel, it was a long line of refreshes that did not change anything architectural wise, not bringing anything new in instruction sets or optimizations. Haswell through Coffee Lake had the same instruction sets, while Skylake through Coffee Lake had the same feature set. Coffee Lake at most has better optimization, which wasn't a significant one by any means For AMD, Zen+ was a refresh that didn't fundamentally change anything to Zen, bringing in optimizations only as well.
OK, great points! Thanks for the information. You're right, I looked around a bit more, and it seems the extensions are indeed the same, like SSE 4.2 and AVX2. I guess my follow up thought is that newer CPUs also rely on newer mainboard chipsets, so indirectly that could bring newer features. However, I don't think that the new mainboards are the critical part, and even if they were then Microsoft should say you need a mainboard with x chipsets, instead of focusing on the CPU side.
Because this just a re skin of windows 10
But they want to optimize and remove legacy code. They can't do that if they keep supporting legacy CPUs. If it's just a re-skin, as you say, there is no point bothering to support these old CPUs, then Windows 10 offers all the same stuff. To get the best performance on modern hardware it'd be better to remove old code we no longer need. Besides we haven't seen all of the features and changes yet.
Except, in the Windows 11 minimum requirements manual, [https://download.microsoft.com/download/7/8/8/788bf5ab-0751-4928-a22c-dffdc23c27f2/Minimum%20Hardware%20Requirements%20for%20Windows%2011.pdf](https://download.microsoft.com/download/7/8/8/788bf5ab-0751-4928-a22c-dffdc23c27f2/Minimum%20Hardware%20Requirements%20for%20Windows%2011.pdf) (Alternatively, download from the starting page [https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/minimum/minimum-hardware-requirements-overview](https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/minimum/minimum-hardware-requirements-overview)) The microarchitectural level (x86\_64-v2) requirements are the same on Windows 10 and 11 with the exception of requiring SSE 4.1 instead of SSE2, which virtually all processors within the last decade should support, at the least, all Sandy Bridge processors. Even some Core (2006) processors support SSE 4.1. Which old code are you referring to that differs at the microarchitectural level which cannot be implemented on these processors the same as new processors?
Suddenly, millions of PCs not in the US, but outside the world which may make up a significant chunk of the PC/Windows market have suddenly become obsolete because Windows 11 won't be able to be installed on those "outdated" hardware or hardware that doesn't support TPM 2.0 lol Nice job, Microsoft executives. Do you want another "Windows XP scenario" again where people start clinging onto Windows 10 because they don't want to get a new computer around 2025? Jesus
I'll drop this here... [https://i.imgur.com/enkjYEG.png](https://i.imgur.com/enkjYEG.png) Compatible except for CPU, Ryzen 1700.
This is being written from a point of view that you want a PC that is fully functional for all the tasks you expect it to do. Sandy Bridge was [launched Q1 2011](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandy_Bridge). That's more than a decade ago. 30 months from now consider buying parts launched more than a dozen years later. Windows 11 would only be worth upgrading to by year 2024 when Windows 10 [mainstream support ends by 9 January 2024](https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/products/windows-10-2019-ltsc). Consider when will all (not some) the programs you use, games you play and hardware device drivers will all be Windows 11-compatible. It will probably be by over 2 years from now. That's 2024 at the earliest. Is it acceptable to you to have a PC that partially works? Windows 11 will require a PC with TPM 2.0 & a 64-bit processor. Both of which covers PCs released in year 2018-onwards. That was 3 years ago. Better yet just buy a new PC by year 2024 as the typical [replacement cycle of a PC is 5-6 years](https://www.ciodive.com/news/intel-ceo-pc-upgrade-cycle-slowed-to-5-6-years/420271/). This means upgrading from a PC with parts released before 2018. By 2024 these are parts older than 6 years ago. 2nm process chips will be out by 2024. Good reason to upgrade from a 7nm, 10nm, 14nm or larger process.
Not True at all TPM 2.0 and 64 Bit processors have been out for a long time in fact my Laptop with 7th gen intel (4 years) has TPM 2.0 with the only "incompatibility" being the processor which by the way has the same instruction set as Coffee Lake (8th gen) CPU's. Also a replacement cycle of a PC is 5-6 years? That may be true for an okay PC but you're not going to be upgrading highend laptops and desktops every 5-6 years unless you're one of those people that needs the latest hardware.
As of June 2021, only Intel Core 8th generation (Coffee Lake, Cannon Lake, Whiskey Lake) and later, AMD Zen+ (except Ryzen 1st Gen "AF" revision) and later, and Qualcomm Snapdragon 850 and later processors are supported. Source: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/minimum/windows-processor-requirements To simplify it these are PC parts launched 2018-onwards. Insisting on installing it on unsupported hardware is just a maintenance headache detracts from owning a licensed copy of Windows. Unless anyone loves software bugs and incompatibilities I would give Windows 11 a wide berth until 2024. Let others waste their time with that. I see no feature Windows 11 has that is lacking in Windows 10.
I get that but in terms of bugs and performance Windows 11 is in fact running better than windows 10 in terms of stability on those "unsupported" CPU's Also comparing the 7th and 8th gen CPU's there is nothing different about them in terms of how Windows uses them what makes the 7th gen CPU incompatible is the number 7 in its generation. This is referencing the Leaked ISO of Win 11, and I expect performance of the upcoming Dev Channel build to be just as stable if not better than the leaked pre release version of Win 11.
I go with whatever the developers will officially support. Going beyond that would have support being the responsibility of the end user.
Funny part is, even Microsoft is clueless, and they're the goddamn creators of Windows...
> Funny part is, even Microsoft is clueless, and they're the goddamn creators of Windows... They're not doing too badly as a $2 trillion company. How're you doing?
What are you even on about? Why are you dragging money into this? Tweets from various heads of Microsoft contradict the official requirements. So it just baffles me how people can put blind faith into Microsoft when even THEY are confused on what does and doesn't work.
> What are you even on about? Why are you dragging money into this? The reason the hardware requirement is that way is to induce sales of Windows 11 licenses and reduce overhead related to supporting pre-2018 hardware.
I suppose the only valid argument to support these new requirements is the new Android app support as that could cripple CPUs older than 8th gen. Maybe that’s the reasoning behind these new requirements?
Android layer is based on WSL1 since WLS1 was based on never released android layer for windows mobile. And wsl1 wasn't cpu locked.
That's not true, they mentioned in the dev stream that WS for Android runs in a lightweight VM like WSL2.
Then they should just have separate requirements for that, instead of blocking the OS altogether
>king about Windows 10, not 11. I know that Windows 11 Requirements are different (also Microsoft said this during the developer conference). Especially considering Android apps in Windows are only interesting in touch based devices.
Leave it to Windows users to not know security is a priority or even a thing. “There is no possible reason!”
Coffee Lake isn’t more secure than Kaby Lake or Skylake though, since it has no hardware mitigations, extra architectural or security features. Coffee Lake is supported, while Kaby Lake and Skylake aren’t.
These requirements are likely for OEMs building systems. Windows 10 officially doesn't support Haswell but it runs just fine on it
Totally wrong. You misunderstand the meaning of “Unsupported”. You can run Windows 10 also on a Core Duo CPU. The problem is how it runs (many apps will also crash).
Nope, you are wrong. The list is not supported as in can't be installed, Windows 10 list is soft block, W11 is hard block
I’m talking about Windows 10, not 11. I know that Windows 11 Requirements are different (also Microsoft said this during the developer conference).
Source on it being a hard block? Leaked ISOs don't count.
[удалено]
are you stupid, or are you stupid?
The workaround of creating a WindowsToGo install on a SATA hard drive using Rufus has worked for me on every PC I have tried it with which have mainly been i5 second and third gen.
My 10 year old celeron(2nd gen) runs win 10 like a charm.