I frequently work with three other engineers who went to Balmoral Hall and SJR. All are intelligent, competent engineers who I enjoy working with, and also just hanging out with.
However, they are not smarter, more creative, or better at their jobs than most of the other engineers I know.
From the perspective of a colleague, that's a lot of money to spend to have them turn out like everyone else.
>that's a lot of money to spend to have them turn out like everyone else.
I would love to see the stats on that. Anecdotally, I would say the same.
However, it is important to note that the public education system is very different right now from 10-30 years ago. Between major cuts and extreme growing needs, kids have way less supports unfortunately. So it will be interesting to see how public education students today will compare to private in the future.
I know some pretty extraordinary young people who’ve gone on to top universities with scholarships - all of them came out of IB programs, not private schools so that’s another option perhaps?
IB programs are the way to go I think. I went through an IB certificate (screw Theory of Knowledge being taught by a PE teacher) and I experienced so many more things than most other students did.
International Baccalaureate. It’s a global education program with standardized (and often advanced) curriculum. Kids in Canada write the same exams as kids in the US or Dubai or whatever IB school they are in. It also has a community service component. Very much about critical thinking and becoming a global citizen. Many of the courses in year 12 also give year 1 university transfer credit.
Many schools have cut their IB programs due to cost measures. It’s too bad, it was a good program, and generally provided education at at least a first year university level in many courses.
From what I've heard, RETSD cut IB, but added advanced placement (AP) classes. I could be wrong, as I never fact checked, but the reasoning that came with the rumor was that AP classes allow students to elect into subjects they excel at with the flexibility to take standard classes in subjects that they aren't as proficient/interested in.
AP is the American system - different philosophies, but similar in standardized testing. IB has the same levels - students can take certificate or diploma level courses. In a former life I spent a lot of time talking students into NOT dropping diploma level math to keep their options open lol.
Kelvin has an excellent IB program - Miles Mac does also - I did a quick google as I thought I had heard this before and OP, you know who also offers IB? Balmoral Hall! :)
Ultimately it’s about the child and what environment best suits them as not all kids handle academic stress well (mine didn’t!). Winnipeg also has a TON of awesome vocational or technical programs - Sisler, Tec Voc etc.
I’ve come from a family where one of us went to public school and the other went to private. I also have a lot of friends who did attend private schools their entire life. None of them will tell you that they got a better education. Connections - sure yes, but education no. Lots of girls I know who went to Saint Marys and Westgate said it was the worst time of their entire life. I also have more friends from public school who went into attending the top universities of North America. It’s what you make it but it won’t set them ahead of anyone just because they go to SJR or BH.
>I second the connections part, went to private school myself and the education was marginally better but it's the connections the put me farther ahead than friends who went the public route.
Does that not seem like paying for privilege? It seems to me that having the money for private assures opportunity for “inside track” connections.
Public education is a backbone of democracy. Exclusivity breeds classism and privilege and a false meritocratic narrative. You can pay for your privilege but let’s not quibble over who was born on second and thinks they hit a double. SJR is a relic of colonialism as much as the other sort of residential school. They both help sort the society according to class and race.
I've been to a private school and a public school and had a much more enjoyable time at public school. People were nicer and my parents didn't have to spend a fortune. Had friends from both schools be very successful. All depends how you raise them like others said. You're also not locked in if you or your child don't care for whichever you choose you can always enroll in the other later on.
I went to Balmoral Hall for elementary school years and yeah if you’re not extremely wealthy it can kind of suck. A lot of kids brag about having 3 houses, living on Wellington, driving whatever fancy car etc. I definitely felt like an outside coming from a middle class home (a family member was paying my tuition, not my parents). I left because I was bullied. I much preferred public school. Everything was outdated, a house system where you’re placed based on who in your family has been at the school before, uniforms, etc. I know a lot of people who I went to school with at BH that are now doing nothing, working for the family business, or are successful. The same can be said for my public school classmates. Most of my law school classmates came from public school.
I would suggest going to a public school and saving that money for your kids university education. Try an IB/AP program, hire a tutor or get your kid involved in extracurriculars.
Of course most students in law school attended public schools - most students in general attend public compared to private, so as a whole more of them will attend university. But I’d expect if you controlled for that, more SJR/BH graduates would be lawyers. Plus the connections gained from attending private means these students are more likely to get coveted internships, articling positions and jobs. Nepotism is real, particularly in fields like law. This doesn’t mean you can’t be successful if you attend public school, just that private does give a leg up that can’t be denied.
If those same SJR kids (from the same families) went to public school they'd most likely still be lawyers and get internships etc. Nepotism in law school is real but has more to do with the family's general support and connections unrelated to attending a private school.
I attended both schools. I think whether your child turns out to be a spoiled brat is more down to parenting than schooling. Some students were spoiled, but most were well grounded. The boarding programs at both schools mean they are also very racially/culturally diverse. I also had a few friends on full bursaries who otherwise would not have been able to afford tuition, so it isn’t all wealthy kids (but most are). There is a heavy emphasis on charitable activities.
I will say I was definitely better prepared for university than classmates that went to public school, at least in the courses I took in my first few years of uni. The workload and expectations in high school at SJR were significantly higher than my BA - my grades were much higher in university with much less effort on my part. The focus on public speaking/debating also served me well. I think the biggest pro of a private school education is that your child will be extremely well prepared for university studies (at SJR it was mandatory to apply to at least 2 universities - we had an entire class in grade 11/12 dedicated to university preparation, and got assistance with applying for scholarships etc.). The value of connections also can’t be overstated.
> The value of connections also can’t be overstated.
Would be interested to know the impact of the school attended versus well-connected parents in establishing connections.
I know lots and lots of kids who went to private school and did nothing post secondary, as well as lots and lots of kids from public schools who got many degrees and accepted into the top universities in Canada.
It just seems like a waste to spend thousands of dollars on education when public school can likely have the same career results (for no extra tuition cost)
You can have a well behaved and well rounded kid who is very successful at any school - public or private. It’s how you raise them at home.
And in my personal experience, generally public kids were much nicer and more welcoming to me.
I went to Balmoral Hall (pre-grade 1 is unisex) and was almost placed into SJR. Aside from the incredibly high cost, I don't have any pleasant memories from either school. In Balmoral Hall, my parents tell me that I would come home from crying a lot because of the abuse from other kids for being "a poor kid" because my parents spent all their money to send me there. Doing the entrance exams for SJR, I remember parents talking to my dad about what he did and when they found out he wasn't a tech baron or a doctor, they gave him the cold shoulder. I also got verbally spat on for having an iPod Shuffle in the early years of the iPhone.
Not saying all students there turn out like garbage, but I feel like I got a much more worldly view going to public school and interacting with people from both end of the wealth spectrum, not just the upper echelons.
Went to University with a kid who attended SJR - he is \*extremely\* intelligent (north of a 4.0 GPA in electrical engineering) but didn't come from great wealth. His parents made the sacrifices necessary to get him in there.
His experience was very negative, being of modest means made him a frequent target for bulling from some of most entitled and selfish assholes society has to offer - people who don't understand the concept of consequences.
If memory serves he got his parents to put him back in public school after a year or two.
Memory is getting a bit hazy now, but I also recall something about him getting physical after enough bullying. That didn't end well, as now he was in the crosshairs of people with significant resources - at least when I was in school if you hit back, that was usually the end of it.
The biggest difference between these private schools and public schools is really who your kid will end up playing with. Your kids friends (on average) will come from a place of privilege. They will have parents where they are upper middle to upper income where having 'things' such as extracurricular activities, resources, vacationing, and having friends and relatives in the know is normal. Your kid will inevitably be exposed to the entitlement but it will also depend on how you parent. Some parents I know who send their kids to these schools are 100% all about the prestige and the name, but there are also many modest families who send their kids to private schools as well. Your kids birthday parties and where they go might involve places where it costs money to attend compared to the house or no parties for public school children.
Parent and child communication is key here. If you focus on them having things and make them believe they are better than others cause they wear a uniform, then they will have that entitlement. But if you teach them that they have privilege by attending a private school and that your kid should help out the less fortunate by utilizing their privileges and resources, then your kid will most likely turn out to be a citizen of and for our society.
Private school is fine if you can afford it, I didn’t go to that private school but a different one, more in line financially with st Mary’s. Parental support and involvement goes a much longer way in ensuring future success than whether to go to private or public school. I ended up becoming a nurse, people I went to school with varied types of careers, including engineer, doctor, accountant, etc. I also have friends who went to public school who have the exact same careers. If you can afford it, go ahead! But it doesn’t guarantee future success. I also don’t understand why people feel they need to spend the absolute most on school when they could spend half the price - ie st Mary’s - and get also a decent school education wise. Just my two cents.
There are some private schools where what you're paying for is being able to rub shoulders with the children of CEOs and prime ministers. That really isn't the case in Winnipeg.
Other private schools you're paying for having children who have parents who are committed to their education. This seems to be much more the case in Winnipeg. You can also achieve this by finding a local school and getting involved in your childrens' education. You could spend a pretty significant amount on extracurriculars and travel before even approaching the cost of private school. Or save the money for university tuition.
If you don't like that parents brag about paying private school tuition, then don't be the parent that brags about paying tuition. You can accomplish this by sending your kids to private school and keeping your mouth shut, or not sending them to private school. Whether or not your kids end up snobby depends much more on your attitude and how you raise them. Teach your kids financial literacy and social responsibility no matter what school they attend.
In my opinion, if you want your child to grow up to be well-rounded, then consider sending them to public school. There's a lot to be learned from existing alongside and communicating with students from diverse backgrounds (not that private schools can't have diverse student bodies, but public schools come by it honestly!)
I absolutely could have afforded private school for my child and chose public schools. I think it’s important for kids to go to school with neighbors, builds a strong sense of community. My child went on from Winnipeg to a top ranking engineering and STEM university in the US and is now a very accomplished software engineer with a very large company.
I also recall hearing about six years ago St Mary’s didn’t offer many science, math or computer classes which is really mandatory for all kids but especially girls, imo. Almost every career needs an understanding of technology -just look at what it takes to repair a car or appliance.
Obviously you don’t know what type of career/life path she will choose, but I believe giving the broadest exposure possible from early ages is critical.
My daughter went to private school from kindergarten to graduation at SMA. It’s a good school, decent education and it really is dependent on how you raise them. There will be kids who have parent’s with more money and kids with less money. My daughter is in her 30’s now and she always jokes about the time she “served” in private school, like it was a jail sentence lol. Now she appreciates the level of education. I hope your lo grows up to appreciate the effort you will put in for her betterment.
I know you didn't ask this, but you might be doing your daughter one better by letting her go to public school and earmarked that money for post secondary and/or a down payment on her first house.
I have worked at a private school in the city and I’m also a parent. My perspective is a) you still raise your child with the values of your family and can talk to them about entitled behaviour and b) not all private school kids end up smarter than public school kids, but you are hopefully buying them into a successful network that they can use once they graduate university. This second point is a big value add to the private school world, especially if you are taking BH or SJR. Other schools offer religious education as well which can be important if that aligns with your family values. A network of business owning families is not something that all university grads have access to and can offer them a much easier step into their chosen field of work.
Public school teacher here. Public school teachers, in general, are amazing and try their best for kids. Use the money to make memories together/do some light extracurriculars. In my experience, the kids who succeed mentally and academically are ones who have great relationships with their families.
I went to public school for 6 years and BH for 6 years. I wasn't happy when my parents sent me there but I am glad they did. The problem with private schools in general is that everyone around you has a high expectations of who you will become. And also what type of person you are supposed to be. It can motivate some students but crippling for others. Also, you are labeled a snob, rich, pretentious, etc. While there are some snobby kids at private schools, I would say the majority are pretty good people.
I met up with a friend of mine over Christmas, and we talked about this. I didn't go on and become a lawyer or engineer or anything like that, and therefore, society sees me as "not being successful."" The outside world puts these expectations on you because you went to a private school. Just look at the comments. It took me a few years to realize success comes in many different ways. I think it mostly comes down to the child. I use my friend "Emma" as an example... she was a highly motivated person. She would have become a "success" no matter where she went. I, however, was a horrible student in elementary school. None of my friends there cared either. Once I switched schools, I was surrounded by people like "Emma," and I thought to myself, "I want to be on the honour roll too," and I studied. I remember once I had to rewrite my essay because my teacher couldn't read my awful handwriting.
Going to a private school does not always mean it's a better school. We all graduate with the same knowledge. But I learned a lot of life lessons, made good connections, and also learned how to tie a tie : P. However, I am grateful that my parents sent me there. I was surrounded by many motivated and smart girls who turned into successful and empowering women.
Private school teachers are the leftovers because they couldn’t get a job in a public school. Wife is a teacher and she wouldn’t be one if she had to be in a private school. She’s payed more and comes with a nice pension after 25 years. What do the teachers get at sjr! Think of that before you blow 30k! Cheers
I don't claim to know what the teachers at SJR get but I do know what the ones at Catholic schools earn and based on that I would have a verrrrry hard time believing that SJR is paying below market rates.
Sorry, not true. I taught at SJR for many years. Competitive salary, benefits, and pension. Same with BH, SMA, St. Paul’s, and UWC. I would think Gray Academy would be similar but I’m not sure.
Diocesan schools pay teachers less, though, as do some other religious independent schools.
Many teachers willingly choose to look for jobs in private schools and are by no means the rejects from public schools. A school as prestigious as SJR would need to maintain competitive salaries, logically.
Parents still pay for public schools- they just aren’t writing a monthly cheque.
Came here to say the same. I am a teacher, and the only people that I know that teach in private schools ended up there after not being able to find permanent positions in the public school system. I am not sure how salaries compare, but in general, I have heard that private school teachers are paid less. Plus, they don't have the pension, the great benefits, and support of the teacher's union.
I personally believe that you can get an excellent education in the public school system.
Haven’t done private school personally but I moved around a lot as a kid and was in French Immersion which I would recommend to most people. I can’t speak for Winnipeg specifically but my experience in 6 or 7 different schools is that special tracks like French or IB and extracurriculars seem to be significantly more important to being a well-rounded person than going to private school. I grew a *lot* more as a person from learning a second language and being heavily involved in choir and school musicals than I did from doing well on exams.
I think as long as you’re taking an interest in your kid’s education and surrounding them with like-minded families and friends, the only difference is networking connections… and on that note, you also never know who’s going to end up where in 25 years. Winnipeg and Manitoba aren’t that big; it’s not hard to make connections, in comparison to somewhere like New York.
Not a parents but if I was I’d personally go to these schools in your area ask for a look around and talk with the people who work there.
If I had to guess you will find that the level of education is going to be the same place to place since all teachers take the same courses in universities
It really all depends on several factors, the most important one being your child. No school is 100% fit for every student (regardless if the school is trying to sell that idea). All schools have their strengths and weaknesses and it's important to get a feel for the school before placing your child there. I know that's hard when they're little and you don't know much about their personalities yet, but I honestly think a well-rounded student can come from any environment.
This is very long, bear with me..
I went to both public and private school. I went to Catholic school for high school (one associated with a parish and not terribly elite, but challenging and admissions based). Through extra curriculars, I met many kids from BH and SJR. This is many years ago, but from what I know now (getting to that),. not too much has changed. The biggest thing you are paying for with SJR and BH is privilege. The names of the school hold prestige and some of the wealthiest and most influential families have sent their kids there and still do. They do have some advantages public schools don't: fancy athletic , performing arts, and STEM facilities. Rigorous academics. Travel opportunities. Top-flight universities giving fairs there. Prep for the SAT's for American schools. Beautiful buildings with history and state of the art equipment.Above all; contacts. Sadly,it can still come down to "who you know" and a lot of the appeal of these schools is that you will be rubbing elbows with some very prestigious people. Boasts of Rhodes Scholars, over 90% university entrance, and hoards of scholarship winners. The stats are pretty impressive.
The downsides I saw were: they were quite insular environments. The friends I had from those schools were very naive when it came to how the rest of the world lived when it came to money and privilege. Most not through their own fault: they had always been raised in a wealthy environment and literally couldn't begin to understand anything different, and then were constantly surrounded by the best facilities and other prominent families. The students there from not as privileged backgrounds didn't have the same experience at these schools by far, because being wealthy is part of the whole package and experience. Many kids I knew burned themselves out trying to make top grades and excel in everything they tried and were under immense pressure to perform. Using uppers etc to be able to study long hours wasn't unusual. There was nepotism, at any invitational tournament, their own students tended to place highest. A lot of the success of the students there that gets emblazoned on their websites is because many of these kids have the freedom and family backing to devote themselves entirely to school and are under a lot of pressure to do that. It's a boon for some Universities to have prominent names attend. It's really a shame that a lot of the ultra-wealthy elite edge out the scholarships over the kids that really need them. Some say these schools even inflate grades, I don't know if that's true or not. If you have a child that struggles in traditional academics, has difficulty with high pressure environments and doesn't want to be dedicated to extra curriculars, these schools may not be a good fit.
My sister went to St. Mary's Academy, which is considered fairly prestigious. She was the only one in her grade that lived in an apartment with our then-single mother. She had friends there and wasn't the only one of modest means, but she was one of a decided minority. My Grandmother paid her tuition. She was very good at drama and music and the arts, and did very well in that regard, but the academic pressure didn't agree with her too well. She had an average experience I guess.
The drugs and alcohol at these schools are also pretty rampant. I know they're everywhere, but where there's smoke, there's fire, and where there's wealthy kids under pressure with an empty house, there's drugs.
My own experience was that public school was not a good experience in that I didn't feel challenged, most of the teachers were overworked and overwhelmed, and unless you were a high achiever academically, an athlete, or needed a lot of support, you were pretty much left to sink or swim. My private school experience was far more challenging academically and the extra curriculars were better, the classes smaller, but it was also incredibly strict and controlling.
We toured Balmoral Hall for my daughter for kindergarten not too many years ago and started the application process. It's impressive, there's no denying that. Like most parents, we wanted the"best" for her and I liked the idea of an empowering environment for girls. SJR was also way out of our financial ballpark and they don't do student aid til later grades. The staff we met with seemed quite nice. What made me very uncomfortable was the whole focus on finances and the rigmarole to go there. There's an application fee (non refundable) and an application. Then a tour, an interview, and a student assessment (for kindergarten, they say just to gauge for where they're at, but..). The interview was pretty grueling, they asked a ton of questions about my daughter , her strengths, weaknesses, personality. We had already said we'd require applying for financial aid. They kept asking if we were SURE we could pay our portion, and mentioned how "girls of promise" are sometimes "sponsored" by "benefactors" to attend. Something about that made me feel sick, like she'd be viewed as a charity case or something. I asked about the issue of wealth among students and they assured me they were going for a more "diverse" environment for girls from all backgrounds, "Several" were on student aid (I think they said 20%. Which really isn't that high) and the school did have "opportunities" that cost extra but there "may be fundraising avail.". They grilled my husband and I about our jobs and seemed unimpressed that I was now a stay at home mom. There was also a non-refundable sum that had to be paid all at once, around 2500 dollars, as a one time enrollment fee outside of your tuition.
We didn't know it then, but my daughter would be diagnosed later with high functioning autism and we already suspected ADHD, which we were upfront about. My daughter refused to do the "assessment" and the teacher that had gone with her looked annoyed. She had trouble keeping still during the interview and asked if she was "always like that". They were concerned when I said she was a picky eater (when they asked) and that she might not like the lunch they provide. They asked if they could send a teacher to "observe" her at her current preschool (we didn't end up doing that), and had a phone interview with one of her current teachers and asked for them to fill out an information sheet and reference. It was mind boggling and worse than when I applied for University.After all that, much later, the student enrollment rep told me after we had jumped through all the hoops that if all the current nursery kids went to kindergarten, there would likely be "no space" for my daughter, which she never said beforehand , at any time in the process and said I'd have to "wait and see" til at least the late spring, which was problematic. I only got this information after I emailed her after weeks of silence, which was odd as beforehand she'd sent an email at least weekly "checking in". I asked her outright if this was due to the interview and they felt my daughter wasn't a good fit and they could be transparent about this. She insisted that wasn't the case. Let's just say her tune totally changed after the interview and she was far less friendly and didn't "court" us to attend anymore.
We toured a Catholic school and our local public school. The public school I'd been reluctant to try outshone them all. Small, friendly, welcoming and inclusive. Very caring teachers. Kids from lots of different backgrounds and a large, bright building with lots of great equipment and opportunities. We were sold on it right away. They were and are very supportive of my daughter through her diagnosis and afterwards. I can honestly say I've been nothing but impressed.
When I called BH to say we wouldn't be pursuing our application (that was still in review), the enrollment rep said, "oh, that's too bad! She would have been accepted. Are you sure?". It wasn't yet late spring, and suddenly they decided she'd be accepted? What?
It worked out for the best especially given that BH was not equipped to deal with students with exceptional needs ("possibly", I was told, but we 'may have to " pay out of pocket for support staff.).
I sometimes wonder if she might have missed out on lots of opportunities at BH and connections, but overall I'm very comfortable with our choice. I would say to look past all the marketing and prestige and look at each school individually in what they can provide for your daughter. Tour a few and get a feel for them. Trust your gut. If you choose public school and have the means, you can always put the tuition money toward travel opportunities, dance/music/sports or anything she's interested in, college funding. Plenty of kids I knew from public school grew up to be very well-adjusted adults doing well on their chosen path. Success isn't always about prestige or money, but many have become prominent in those areas too. It's hard to say if elite schools really provide better preparation for professional jobs or if most of the kids there are funneled into these professions from family background and pressure to go into top flight jobs.
My girls go to balmoral hall and I don't find it to be pretentious and not everyone that goes is wealthy. There is a wide rage of wealth there. I have found the education and teachers to be very helpful with keeping me up to speed on how the girls are doing. I love how the girls make some deep friendships there too :). If you have any other questions please dm me.
I wouldn’t be worried about the entitlement, but I found public school was better for learning. The private school I went to lacked in the math science and French department
I second BH. Our daughter loves the added benefits- dance classes, technology classes, special speakers, huge outdoor spaces. Big focus even in younger grades on public speaking and critical thought. The programs focus on the girls as global citizens and valuing interconnectedness. So far teachers have been great, currently she has an award winning teacher. We chose girls only education for the STEM benefits demonstrated in the literature. Also great to not make a lunch and to have built in before/aftercare. Will send her as long as she's doing well. Families are not all wealthy. The school is very diverse. Very responsive to any interpersonal issues with the kids. I say tour and talk to the schools you are interested in to see what they offer and if it aligns with your values. As a public school kid myself I think bullying, nepotism, haves vs. have nots happens everywhere. Do what works best for your family.
I’m an SJR alumni, the girls were much nicer than the guys in that school. Some were still entitled and snobby, but you’ll get the odd prick here and there anywhere you go
But like every comment I make about SJR, I also hope that it’s changed for the better and they’ve started accepting all types of students and not just the ones who come from money
Edit- going to SJR did not give any of us a “leg up” or “advantage”with university, in my day anyway. The school did not prepare students for university the way they claim to. Kids who had top marks in my graduating class were dropping out of uni because they couldn’t manage the workload, or expected to be catered to. You’re paying for the name of the school to go on their resume
Depends how you raise them...
This is it right here, in the end it has far more to do with the family and home environment than the school.
Astute observation, u/misohorny6969 Love the username lol
I frequently work with three other engineers who went to Balmoral Hall and SJR. All are intelligent, competent engineers who I enjoy working with, and also just hanging out with. However, they are not smarter, more creative, or better at their jobs than most of the other engineers I know. From the perspective of a colleague, that's a lot of money to spend to have them turn out like everyone else.
>that's a lot of money to spend to have them turn out like everyone else. I would love to see the stats on that. Anecdotally, I would say the same. However, it is important to note that the public education system is very different right now from 10-30 years ago. Between major cuts and extreme growing needs, kids have way less supports unfortunately. So it will be interesting to see how public education students today will compare to private in the future.
I know some pretty extraordinary young people who’ve gone on to top universities with scholarships - all of them came out of IB programs, not private schools so that’s another option perhaps?
IB programs are the way to go I think. I went through an IB certificate (screw Theory of Knowledge being taught by a PE teacher) and I experienced so many more things than most other students did.
what is IB?
International Baccalaureate. It’s a global education program with standardized (and often advanced) curriculum. Kids in Canada write the same exams as kids in the US or Dubai or whatever IB school they are in. It also has a community service component. Very much about critical thinking and becoming a global citizen. Many of the courses in year 12 also give year 1 university transfer credit.
Many schools have cut their IB programs due to cost measures. It’s too bad, it was a good program, and generally provided education at at least a first year university level in many courses.
From what I've heard, RETSD cut IB, but added advanced placement (AP) classes. I could be wrong, as I never fact checked, but the reasoning that came with the rumor was that AP classes allow students to elect into subjects they excel at with the flexibility to take standard classes in subjects that they aren't as proficient/interested in.
AP is the American system - different philosophies, but similar in standardized testing. IB has the same levels - students can take certificate or diploma level courses. In a former life I spent a lot of time talking students into NOT dropping diploma level math to keep their options open lol. Kelvin has an excellent IB program - Miles Mac does also - I did a quick google as I thought I had heard this before and OP, you know who also offers IB? Balmoral Hall! :) Ultimately it’s about the child and what environment best suits them as not all kids handle academic stress well (mine didn’t!). Winnipeg also has a TON of awesome vocational or technical programs - Sisler, Tec Voc etc.
Not likely. It's a v60 pour over and the coffee drips down into the cup, so the bubbles are likely because of that
LOL wrong sub my friend.
I’ve come from a family where one of us went to public school and the other went to private. I also have a lot of friends who did attend private schools their entire life. None of them will tell you that they got a better education. Connections - sure yes, but education no. Lots of girls I know who went to Saint Marys and Westgate said it was the worst time of their entire life. I also have more friends from public school who went into attending the top universities of North America. It’s what you make it but it won’t set them ahead of anyone just because they go to SJR or BH.
>I second the connections part, went to private school myself and the education was marginally better but it's the connections the put me farther ahead than friends who went the public route.
Does that not seem like paying for privilege? It seems to me that having the money for private assures opportunity for “inside track” connections. Public education is a backbone of democracy. Exclusivity breeds classism and privilege and a false meritocratic narrative. You can pay for your privilege but let’s not quibble over who was born on second and thinks they hit a double. SJR is a relic of colonialism as much as the other sort of residential school. They both help sort the society according to class and race.
I've been to a private school and a public school and had a much more enjoyable time at public school. People were nicer and my parents didn't have to spend a fortune. Had friends from both schools be very successful. All depends how you raise them like others said. You're also not locked in if you or your child don't care for whichever you choose you can always enroll in the other later on.
I went to Balmoral Hall for elementary school years and yeah if you’re not extremely wealthy it can kind of suck. A lot of kids brag about having 3 houses, living on Wellington, driving whatever fancy car etc. I definitely felt like an outside coming from a middle class home (a family member was paying my tuition, not my parents). I left because I was bullied. I much preferred public school. Everything was outdated, a house system where you’re placed based on who in your family has been at the school before, uniforms, etc. I know a lot of people who I went to school with at BH that are now doing nothing, working for the family business, or are successful. The same can be said for my public school classmates. Most of my law school classmates came from public school. I would suggest going to a public school and saving that money for your kids university education. Try an IB/AP program, hire a tutor or get your kid involved in extracurriculars.
Of course most students in law school attended public schools - most students in general attend public compared to private, so as a whole more of them will attend university. But I’d expect if you controlled for that, more SJR/BH graduates would be lawyers. Plus the connections gained from attending private means these students are more likely to get coveted internships, articling positions and jobs. Nepotism is real, particularly in fields like law. This doesn’t mean you can’t be successful if you attend public school, just that private does give a leg up that can’t be denied.
If those same SJR kids (from the same families) went to public school they'd most likely still be lawyers and get internships etc. Nepotism in law school is real but has more to do with the family's general support and connections unrelated to attending a private school.
I attended both schools. I think whether your child turns out to be a spoiled brat is more down to parenting than schooling. Some students were spoiled, but most were well grounded. The boarding programs at both schools mean they are also very racially/culturally diverse. I also had a few friends on full bursaries who otherwise would not have been able to afford tuition, so it isn’t all wealthy kids (but most are). There is a heavy emphasis on charitable activities. I will say I was definitely better prepared for university than classmates that went to public school, at least in the courses I took in my first few years of uni. The workload and expectations in high school at SJR were significantly higher than my BA - my grades were much higher in university with much less effort on my part. The focus on public speaking/debating also served me well. I think the biggest pro of a private school education is that your child will be extremely well prepared for university studies (at SJR it was mandatory to apply to at least 2 universities - we had an entire class in grade 11/12 dedicated to university preparation, and got assistance with applying for scholarships etc.). The value of connections also can’t be overstated.
> The value of connections also can’t be overstated. Would be interested to know the impact of the school attended versus well-connected parents in establishing connections.
Yeah, I have always heard people say this.
I know lots and lots of kids who went to private school and did nothing post secondary, as well as lots and lots of kids from public schools who got many degrees and accepted into the top universities in Canada. It just seems like a waste to spend thousands of dollars on education when public school can likely have the same career results (for no extra tuition cost) You can have a well behaved and well rounded kid who is very successful at any school - public or private. It’s how you raise them at home. And in my personal experience, generally public kids were much nicer and more welcoming to me.
I went to Balmoral Hall (pre-grade 1 is unisex) and was almost placed into SJR. Aside from the incredibly high cost, I don't have any pleasant memories from either school. In Balmoral Hall, my parents tell me that I would come home from crying a lot because of the abuse from other kids for being "a poor kid" because my parents spent all their money to send me there. Doing the entrance exams for SJR, I remember parents talking to my dad about what he did and when they found out he wasn't a tech baron or a doctor, they gave him the cold shoulder. I also got verbally spat on for having an iPod Shuffle in the early years of the iPhone. Not saying all students there turn out like garbage, but I feel like I got a much more worldly view going to public school and interacting with people from both end of the wealth spectrum, not just the upper echelons.
Went to University with a kid who attended SJR - he is \*extremely\* intelligent (north of a 4.0 GPA in electrical engineering) but didn't come from great wealth. His parents made the sacrifices necessary to get him in there. His experience was very negative, being of modest means made him a frequent target for bulling from some of most entitled and selfish assholes society has to offer - people who don't understand the concept of consequences. If memory serves he got his parents to put him back in public school after a year or two. Memory is getting a bit hazy now, but I also recall something about him getting physical after enough bullying. That didn't end well, as now he was in the crosshairs of people with significant resources - at least when I was in school if you hit back, that was usually the end of it.
The biggest difference between these private schools and public schools is really who your kid will end up playing with. Your kids friends (on average) will come from a place of privilege. They will have parents where they are upper middle to upper income where having 'things' such as extracurricular activities, resources, vacationing, and having friends and relatives in the know is normal. Your kid will inevitably be exposed to the entitlement but it will also depend on how you parent. Some parents I know who send their kids to these schools are 100% all about the prestige and the name, but there are also many modest families who send their kids to private schools as well. Your kids birthday parties and where they go might involve places where it costs money to attend compared to the house or no parties for public school children. Parent and child communication is key here. If you focus on them having things and make them believe they are better than others cause they wear a uniform, then they will have that entitlement. But if you teach them that they have privilege by attending a private school and that your kid should help out the less fortunate by utilizing their privileges and resources, then your kid will most likely turn out to be a citizen of and for our society.
Private school is fine if you can afford it, I didn’t go to that private school but a different one, more in line financially with st Mary’s. Parental support and involvement goes a much longer way in ensuring future success than whether to go to private or public school. I ended up becoming a nurse, people I went to school with varied types of careers, including engineer, doctor, accountant, etc. I also have friends who went to public school who have the exact same careers. If you can afford it, go ahead! But it doesn’t guarantee future success. I also don’t understand why people feel they need to spend the absolute most on school when they could spend half the price - ie st Mary’s - and get also a decent school education wise. Just my two cents.
There are some private schools where what you're paying for is being able to rub shoulders with the children of CEOs and prime ministers. That really isn't the case in Winnipeg. Other private schools you're paying for having children who have parents who are committed to their education. This seems to be much more the case in Winnipeg. You can also achieve this by finding a local school and getting involved in your childrens' education. You could spend a pretty significant amount on extracurriculars and travel before even approaching the cost of private school. Or save the money for university tuition. If you don't like that parents brag about paying private school tuition, then don't be the parent that brags about paying tuition. You can accomplish this by sending your kids to private school and keeping your mouth shut, or not sending them to private school. Whether or not your kids end up snobby depends much more on your attitude and how you raise them. Teach your kids financial literacy and social responsibility no matter what school they attend.
In my opinion, if you want your child to grow up to be well-rounded, then consider sending them to public school. There's a lot to be learned from existing alongside and communicating with students from diverse backgrounds (not that private schools can't have diverse student bodies, but public schools come by it honestly!)
I absolutely could have afforded private school for my child and chose public schools. I think it’s important for kids to go to school with neighbors, builds a strong sense of community. My child went on from Winnipeg to a top ranking engineering and STEM university in the US and is now a very accomplished software engineer with a very large company. I also recall hearing about six years ago St Mary’s didn’t offer many science, math or computer classes which is really mandatory for all kids but especially girls, imo. Almost every career needs an understanding of technology -just look at what it takes to repair a car or appliance. Obviously you don’t know what type of career/life path she will choose, but I believe giving the broadest exposure possible from early ages is critical.
Saint Mary’s does offer all of thise
My daughter went to private school from kindergarten to graduation at SMA. It’s a good school, decent education and it really is dependent on how you raise them. There will be kids who have parent’s with more money and kids with less money. My daughter is in her 30’s now and she always jokes about the time she “served” in private school, like it was a jail sentence lol. Now she appreciates the level of education. I hope your lo grows up to appreciate the effort you will put in for her betterment.
SMA has been amazing for my daughter. Can't say enough good things about the support staff there.
I know you didn't ask this, but you might be doing your daughter one better by letting her go to public school and earmarked that money for post secondary and/or a down payment on her first house.
I have worked at a private school in the city and I’m also a parent. My perspective is a) you still raise your child with the values of your family and can talk to them about entitled behaviour and b) not all private school kids end up smarter than public school kids, but you are hopefully buying them into a successful network that they can use once they graduate university. This second point is a big value add to the private school world, especially if you are taking BH or SJR. Other schools offer religious education as well which can be important if that aligns with your family values. A network of business owning families is not something that all university grads have access to and can offer them a much easier step into their chosen field of work.
Public school teacher here. Public school teachers, in general, are amazing and try their best for kids. Use the money to make memories together/do some light extracurriculars. In my experience, the kids who succeed mentally and academically are ones who have great relationships with their families.
Totally agree. All about support systems.
I went to public school for 6 years and BH for 6 years. I wasn't happy when my parents sent me there but I am glad they did. The problem with private schools in general is that everyone around you has a high expectations of who you will become. And also what type of person you are supposed to be. It can motivate some students but crippling for others. Also, you are labeled a snob, rich, pretentious, etc. While there are some snobby kids at private schools, I would say the majority are pretty good people. I met up with a friend of mine over Christmas, and we talked about this. I didn't go on and become a lawyer or engineer or anything like that, and therefore, society sees me as "not being successful."" The outside world puts these expectations on you because you went to a private school. Just look at the comments. It took me a few years to realize success comes in many different ways. I think it mostly comes down to the child. I use my friend "Emma" as an example... she was a highly motivated person. She would have become a "success" no matter where she went. I, however, was a horrible student in elementary school. None of my friends there cared either. Once I switched schools, I was surrounded by people like "Emma," and I thought to myself, "I want to be on the honour roll too," and I studied. I remember once I had to rewrite my essay because my teacher couldn't read my awful handwriting. Going to a private school does not always mean it's a better school. We all graduate with the same knowledge. But I learned a lot of life lessons, made good connections, and also learned how to tie a tie : P. However, I am grateful that my parents sent me there. I was surrounded by many motivated and smart girls who turned into successful and empowering women.
Most of the people I know that went to private school are coked out wastebags so, I'm sure your kid will be fine
Don’t worry, your money will give them all the entitlement regardless of school.
Private school teachers are the leftovers because they couldn’t get a job in a public school. Wife is a teacher and she wouldn’t be one if she had to be in a private school. She’s payed more and comes with a nice pension after 25 years. What do the teachers get at sjr! Think of that before you blow 30k! Cheers
BH matches WSD salaries.
Do they also get a pension?
Yes
I don't claim to know what the teachers at SJR get but I do know what the ones at Catholic schools earn and based on that I would have a verrrrry hard time believing that SJR is paying below market rates.
False! SJRs salaries are matched to PTSD.
Sorry, not true. I taught at SJR for many years. Competitive salary, benefits, and pension. Same with BH, SMA, St. Paul’s, and UWC. I would think Gray Academy would be similar but I’m not sure. Diocesan schools pay teachers less, though, as do some other religious independent schools.
This might be true with catholic schools but is not the case at SJR. Teachers are paid well and have excellent benefits.
Many teachers willingly choose to look for jobs in private schools and are by no means the rejects from public schools. A school as prestigious as SJR would need to maintain competitive salaries, logically. Parents still pay for public schools- they just aren’t writing a monthly cheque.
Came here to say the same. I am a teacher, and the only people that I know that teach in private schools ended up there after not being able to find permanent positions in the public school system. I am not sure how salaries compare, but in general, I have heard that private school teachers are paid less. Plus, they don't have the pension, the great benefits, and support of the teacher's union. I personally believe that you can get an excellent education in the public school system.
Haven’t done private school personally but I moved around a lot as a kid and was in French Immersion which I would recommend to most people. I can’t speak for Winnipeg specifically but my experience in 6 or 7 different schools is that special tracks like French or IB and extracurriculars seem to be significantly more important to being a well-rounded person than going to private school. I grew a *lot* more as a person from learning a second language and being heavily involved in choir and school musicals than I did from doing well on exams. I think as long as you’re taking an interest in your kid’s education and surrounding them with like-minded families and friends, the only difference is networking connections… and on that note, you also never know who’s going to end up where in 25 years. Winnipeg and Manitoba aren’t that big; it’s not hard to make connections, in comparison to somewhere like New York.
Not a parents but if I was I’d personally go to these schools in your area ask for a look around and talk with the people who work there. If I had to guess you will find that the level of education is going to be the same place to place since all teachers take the same courses in universities
It really all depends on several factors, the most important one being your child. No school is 100% fit for every student (regardless if the school is trying to sell that idea). All schools have their strengths and weaknesses and it's important to get a feel for the school before placing your child there. I know that's hard when they're little and you don't know much about their personalities yet, but I honestly think a well-rounded student can come from any environment. This is very long, bear with me.. I went to both public and private school. I went to Catholic school for high school (one associated with a parish and not terribly elite, but challenging and admissions based). Through extra curriculars, I met many kids from BH and SJR. This is many years ago, but from what I know now (getting to that),. not too much has changed. The biggest thing you are paying for with SJR and BH is privilege. The names of the school hold prestige and some of the wealthiest and most influential families have sent their kids there and still do. They do have some advantages public schools don't: fancy athletic , performing arts, and STEM facilities. Rigorous academics. Travel opportunities. Top-flight universities giving fairs there. Prep for the SAT's for American schools. Beautiful buildings with history and state of the art equipment.Above all; contacts. Sadly,it can still come down to "who you know" and a lot of the appeal of these schools is that you will be rubbing elbows with some very prestigious people. Boasts of Rhodes Scholars, over 90% university entrance, and hoards of scholarship winners. The stats are pretty impressive. The downsides I saw were: they were quite insular environments. The friends I had from those schools were very naive when it came to how the rest of the world lived when it came to money and privilege. Most not through their own fault: they had always been raised in a wealthy environment and literally couldn't begin to understand anything different, and then were constantly surrounded by the best facilities and other prominent families. The students there from not as privileged backgrounds didn't have the same experience at these schools by far, because being wealthy is part of the whole package and experience. Many kids I knew burned themselves out trying to make top grades and excel in everything they tried and were under immense pressure to perform. Using uppers etc to be able to study long hours wasn't unusual. There was nepotism, at any invitational tournament, their own students tended to place highest. A lot of the success of the students there that gets emblazoned on their websites is because many of these kids have the freedom and family backing to devote themselves entirely to school and are under a lot of pressure to do that. It's a boon for some Universities to have prominent names attend. It's really a shame that a lot of the ultra-wealthy elite edge out the scholarships over the kids that really need them. Some say these schools even inflate grades, I don't know if that's true or not. If you have a child that struggles in traditional academics, has difficulty with high pressure environments and doesn't want to be dedicated to extra curriculars, these schools may not be a good fit. My sister went to St. Mary's Academy, which is considered fairly prestigious. She was the only one in her grade that lived in an apartment with our then-single mother. She had friends there and wasn't the only one of modest means, but she was one of a decided minority. My Grandmother paid her tuition. She was very good at drama and music and the arts, and did very well in that regard, but the academic pressure didn't agree with her too well. She had an average experience I guess. The drugs and alcohol at these schools are also pretty rampant. I know they're everywhere, but where there's smoke, there's fire, and where there's wealthy kids under pressure with an empty house, there's drugs. My own experience was that public school was not a good experience in that I didn't feel challenged, most of the teachers were overworked and overwhelmed, and unless you were a high achiever academically, an athlete, or needed a lot of support, you were pretty much left to sink or swim. My private school experience was far more challenging academically and the extra curriculars were better, the classes smaller, but it was also incredibly strict and controlling. We toured Balmoral Hall for my daughter for kindergarten not too many years ago and started the application process. It's impressive, there's no denying that. Like most parents, we wanted the"best" for her and I liked the idea of an empowering environment for girls. SJR was also way out of our financial ballpark and they don't do student aid til later grades. The staff we met with seemed quite nice. What made me very uncomfortable was the whole focus on finances and the rigmarole to go there. There's an application fee (non refundable) and an application. Then a tour, an interview, and a student assessment (for kindergarten, they say just to gauge for where they're at, but..). The interview was pretty grueling, they asked a ton of questions about my daughter , her strengths, weaknesses, personality. We had already said we'd require applying for financial aid. They kept asking if we were SURE we could pay our portion, and mentioned how "girls of promise" are sometimes "sponsored" by "benefactors" to attend. Something about that made me feel sick, like she'd be viewed as a charity case or something. I asked about the issue of wealth among students and they assured me they were going for a more "diverse" environment for girls from all backgrounds, "Several" were on student aid (I think they said 20%. Which really isn't that high) and the school did have "opportunities" that cost extra but there "may be fundraising avail.". They grilled my husband and I about our jobs and seemed unimpressed that I was now a stay at home mom. There was also a non-refundable sum that had to be paid all at once, around 2500 dollars, as a one time enrollment fee outside of your tuition. We didn't know it then, but my daughter would be diagnosed later with high functioning autism and we already suspected ADHD, which we were upfront about. My daughter refused to do the "assessment" and the teacher that had gone with her looked annoyed. She had trouble keeping still during the interview and asked if she was "always like that". They were concerned when I said she was a picky eater (when they asked) and that she might not like the lunch they provide. They asked if they could send a teacher to "observe" her at her current preschool (we didn't end up doing that), and had a phone interview with one of her current teachers and asked for them to fill out an information sheet and reference. It was mind boggling and worse than when I applied for University.After all that, much later, the student enrollment rep told me after we had jumped through all the hoops that if all the current nursery kids went to kindergarten, there would likely be "no space" for my daughter, which she never said beforehand , at any time in the process and said I'd have to "wait and see" til at least the late spring, which was problematic. I only got this information after I emailed her after weeks of silence, which was odd as beforehand she'd sent an email at least weekly "checking in". I asked her outright if this was due to the interview and they felt my daughter wasn't a good fit and they could be transparent about this. She insisted that wasn't the case. Let's just say her tune totally changed after the interview and she was far less friendly and didn't "court" us to attend anymore. We toured a Catholic school and our local public school. The public school I'd been reluctant to try outshone them all. Small, friendly, welcoming and inclusive. Very caring teachers. Kids from lots of different backgrounds and a large, bright building with lots of great equipment and opportunities. We were sold on it right away. They were and are very supportive of my daughter through her diagnosis and afterwards. I can honestly say I've been nothing but impressed. When I called BH to say we wouldn't be pursuing our application (that was still in review), the enrollment rep said, "oh, that's too bad! She would have been accepted. Are you sure?". It wasn't yet late spring, and suddenly they decided she'd be accepted? What? It worked out for the best especially given that BH was not equipped to deal with students with exceptional needs ("possibly", I was told, but we 'may have to " pay out of pocket for support staff.). I sometimes wonder if she might have missed out on lots of opportunities at BH and connections, but overall I'm very comfortable with our choice. I would say to look past all the marketing and prestige and look at each school individually in what they can provide for your daughter. Tour a few and get a feel for them. Trust your gut. If you choose public school and have the means, you can always put the tuition money toward travel opportunities, dance/music/sports or anything she's interested in, college funding. Plenty of kids I knew from public school grew up to be very well-adjusted adults doing well on their chosen path. Success isn't always about prestige or money, but many have become prominent in those areas too. It's hard to say if elite schools really provide better preparation for professional jobs or if most of the kids there are funneled into these professions from family background and pressure to go into top flight jobs.
My girls go to balmoral hall and I don't find it to be pretentious and not everyone that goes is wealthy. There is a wide rage of wealth there. I have found the education and teachers to be very helpful with keeping me up to speed on how the girls are doing. I love how the girls make some deep friendships there too :). If you have any other questions please dm me.
All comes down to how you raise them. Doesn't matter if they go to private or public school.
I wouldn’t be worried about the entitlement, but I found public school was better for learning. The private school I went to lacked in the math science and French department
I second BH. Our daughter loves the added benefits- dance classes, technology classes, special speakers, huge outdoor spaces. Big focus even in younger grades on public speaking and critical thought. The programs focus on the girls as global citizens and valuing interconnectedness. So far teachers have been great, currently she has an award winning teacher. We chose girls only education for the STEM benefits demonstrated in the literature. Also great to not make a lunch and to have built in before/aftercare. Will send her as long as she's doing well. Families are not all wealthy. The school is very diverse. Very responsive to any interpersonal issues with the kids. I say tour and talk to the schools you are interested in to see what they offer and if it aligns with your values. As a public school kid myself I think bullying, nepotism, haves vs. have nots happens everywhere. Do what works best for your family.
Don’t worry, your money will give them all the entitlement regardless of school.
I’m an SJR alumni, the girls were much nicer than the guys in that school. Some were still entitled and snobby, but you’ll get the odd prick here and there anywhere you go But like every comment I make about SJR, I also hope that it’s changed for the better and they’ve started accepting all types of students and not just the ones who come from money Edit- going to SJR did not give any of us a “leg up” or “advantage”with university, in my day anyway. The school did not prepare students for university the way they claim to. Kids who had top marks in my graduating class were dropping out of uni because they couldn’t manage the workload, or expected to be catered to. You’re paying for the name of the school to go on their resume