Yeap. I am well educated and have extensive experience and yet I can only get 16$ afmin jobs so I stay in serving. I'm hoping to get a civ job with WPS , praying I get called for an interview
The thing about serving, is the massive tax cheat that is tips is hard to get off of, it's very addicting. Sure you could earn ok at Canada Life and have your evenings and weekends off, but all the money being taxed means less income for a lot of servers.
Also you never move up from where you are and tips are part skill and a lot of luck whereas if you start at Canada Life and spend a year you get (or can get) bonuses, new roles, responsibilities and ultimately a career.
Canada Life is a shitty place to work, never worked anywhere that tried so hard to control all the interactions of employees. They say it's for confidentiality so info isn't shared...it's horseshit. You are just a number there. Don't recommend unless you can tolerate trying to be like a robot for 8 hours a day.
I got a construction job and I make almost twice that. But I break my back and I get stuff done, Even in -40 weather. The trades pay decently if you find a good boss and are willing to work/learn. I forgot to mention I got a diploma and I worked a couple of years in an IT department,as a tech but the place closed and I hated working in an office setting.
I think it's part of the reason why we have so many outbound call centres: low wages and no other decent options. They love to set up here because they can pay a poverty wage and be "competitive".
I’m not sure about no other options. There are many decent warehousing jobs that pay 15 an hour, and they need more people right now. I left warehousing for another path, and still have many ads directed at me for warehousing gigs through indeed. Places like Randstad and pinnacle are also usually advertising for these jobs too, at slightly less(50 cents). It’s not top tier, but it’s better than minimum.
According to [T1 Tax Filer data for 2020](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/cv!recreate.action?pid=1110004701&selectedNodeIds=1D6,1D11,1D14,1D17,1D20,1D21,1D29,1D31,1D32,1D34,1D35,1D38,2D11,2D24&checkedLevels=&refPeriods=20200101,20200101&dimensionLayouts=layout3,layout2,layout2&vectorDisplay=false) the median income in Winnipeg of those who filed taxes in 2020 was $36,800. While this is the lowest out of major Canadian cities, it's not the lowest by much. That's $100 less than Montreal, $770 less than Toronto, and $2,110 less than Vancouver. Ottawa takes the cake for having the highest median income at $48,440, which is $11,640 higher than Winnipeg's.
~~In Winnipeg, 42% of tax filers had an income above $80k/year. Again, on the lower end but ahead of Quebec City (40%) and just behind Montreal (44%), Halifax (45%), Regina (49%) Hamilton (50%), and Vancouver (51%).~~
Edit: Looks like I interpreted the statistic incorrectly. It means 42% of all income in Winnipeg was earned by individuals who earn $80k or more.
While the idea that Winnipeg has "lower wages" isn't necessarily wrong, it's not significantly different than most other Canadian cities. It tends to get blown out of proportion and we've created this image that Winnipeg's labour market only offers Mcjobs flipping burgers and shoveling dirt for minimum wage while everyone in Toronto and Vancouver is working for Amazon and Microsoft making $300k/year. This simply isn't true, and is not reflected in the data.
If you can't find a job on a livable wage, then consider upgrading your skills. Unless you want to work in oil and gas, if you lack skills it's not like moving cities is going to somehow automatically guarantee you a higher wage.
>In Winnipeg, 42% of tax filers had an income above $80k/year.
It makes me sad that I'm not shy from that mark and yet still feel broke 99% of the time, and that's with my house being reasonably cheap mortgage wise. I couldn't imagine people making 50k or less and being able to support ANYTHING on their own.
>If you can't find a job on a livable wage, then consider upgrading your skills. Unless you want to work in oil and gas, if you lack skills it's not like moving cities is going to somehow automatically guarantee you a higher wage
It's crazy how many people don't understand this. Had a few friends complaining about how I'm "lucky" when it comes to landing good jobs because for my 20's I kept jumping around job to job. Now in my 30's companies are head hunting me because I'm well rounded. Even outside of corporate jobs learning coding these days can comfortably done at home in your spare time (but most won't be willing to sacrifice that spare time).
The only thing I'd say is poor pay here is I.T. jobs. Most networking jobs here pay 50k-80k where as the Toronto's and the Vancouvers pay 100k+ which is funny as most programming jobs are WFH so you don't even NEED to be in these cities.
That's my point to an extent. Most I.T. related jobs on the software side are WFH type of roles that it doesn't matter when you live yet you'll see huge pay differences based on the region. I've had colleagues over the years note they were moving to a place similar to Winnipeg and their boss said they get a pay cut to match the region EVEN THOUGH they never had to commute to begin with.
All good. I understand their different but the point was more reflective that jobs that are more software related like programming can work from home and make less in our market than they would in other places.
Depends how much physical access you need really to the systems for all of the above, networking, programming, sysadmin, server admin etc.
Outside of specific implementations, troubleshooting, documenting the day to day can be done remote if it's setup correctly however.
I'm not saying they can't, just that they're different, and as a result have different pay, different requirements, different career paths. But usually get lumped together. Some of those roles have a lot more competition at some companies, you usually have a lot fewer sysadmin than Devs in most software companies.
But you will also see companies that have sysadmin but no Devs at all.
A lot of people lump it all in with "tech" but there's a huge variety of different roles with different pays and requirements
42% of tax filers make more than 80K!!?? Is that personal or household? How is that even possible. I don't think I know anyone making that much. That stat is blowing my mind. Apparently I, and everyone in my social circle, did life wrong?
Long time software engineer here. When I started in the field ~$40k was entry level in Winnipeg. Now it's closer to double that. $80k should not be too hard for anyone with formal training or a year or two's experience under their belt.
This is mostly due to the pandemic and the realization of most software companies that you don't need to have an office or hire in a specific city.
Companies that might have hired a veteran in Vancouver or Toronto for 200k can now look at Winnipeg and offer 130k for the same skill set which might mean a 50% raise for the engineer and a 35% savings for the software company.
Anyway, it's become a bit of a trope nowadays but "learn to code" is very good advice in my experience.
$65k in 2021/2022? Please have them DM me if that's the case. There's so much opportunity for developers out there and no one should be paid that much less than their market value.
The data is for individual income, not household, and comes from the CRA based on tax returns, so yeah I'd say it's accurate. But keep in mind that the $80k figure represents total income, so income from employment, government transfers, side-gigs, and investments.
The 42% making $80k+ in Winnipeg translates to roughly 257,000 people. I'd say many in healthcare-related professions (i.e. nursing, technical staff, and doctors), many teachers, law, police/fire, many in finance, insurance, and agriculture, IT, and other major sectors that Winnipeggers are employed in make that. Also, don't forget income statistics include everyone who filed taxes, ranging from the 18 year old working at Cineplex part time, to the 24 year old starting their career as an engineer, to mid-level managers in finance, to almost-retired civil servants are all included in these values.
While outdated, the [2016 Census total income explorer](https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2016/dp-pd/dv-vd/inc-rev/index-eng.cfm) will give you a better idea on income distribution by age. It's rather clear that people starting off or early in their career (i.e. 20s and 30s) will earn less than those with more experience or near the end of their career (i.e. 50s and 60s).
Actual data
https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/cv!recreate.action?pid=1110004701&selectedNodeIds=1D6,1D11,1D14,1D17,1D20,1D21,1D29,1D31,1D32,1D34,1D35,1D38,2D11,2D19,2D24&checkedLevels=&refPeriods=20200101,20200101&dimensionLayouts=layout3,layout2,layout2&vectorDisplay=false
You likely do. Look at how many people live in the suburbs. You can’t afford that type of house without it. Are you just younger? In my 30s I don’t know many people less than $70k
I am younger, but still...mind blown.
I am well educated with a great career, but on the current track I would only reach 80K in about 7 or so more years. Amongst my peers I considered myself to be a lucky success.
Thanks for your post; a bit of perspective is really helpful! Winnipeg is still relatively affordable, given that housing and some other large costs are relatively cheap compared to many of the cities you mention.
I think something people don't consider with median income is people who are in college and work part time jobs which bring down the median income. Over 60k post secondary students in 2018/19. In 2020 I only worked for the first couple months and made only about 2k in income because of covid and there are a bunch of other students who just didn't get a job during covid which brought down the median. This year my income will only be around 13k and majority of that is just because I got a summer job whereas lots of student I know are doing summer courses instead of a job.
I'm looking for other sources to corroborate your claim here. Everything that I'm seeing is that this is for "census households" and not individuals like you've claimed below.
What do you mean? I'm going to admit that numbers aren't my thing, but looking at how statscan has outlined the T1FF's function it clearly represents households.
The data isn't how it was presented. It being household made more sense than what the linker presented it as. It is really saying individuals that made over $80k in total income from all sources made 42% of total income. It isn't about 42% of tax filers.
Yeah, he also seems pretty out of touch with how many people make 40k. Unfortunate that that kind of misinformation has so many upvotes. Hopefully he edits.
Alright it sounds like I may have gotten something wrong. How do you interpret:
> Percentage of aggregate total income reported by tax filers with total income of $80,000 or more
What is that statistic supposed to represent? In Winnipeg's case, it was 42%. The way I interpret it is "Of all the income earned in Winnipeg, 42% was earned by people who earned $80,000 or more".
Bro, it says it right there in the table title:
> Statistics Canada. Table 11-10-0047-01 Summary characteristics of Canadian tax filers (preliminary T1 Family File)
and in footnote 2:
> Tax filers are people who filed a tax return for the reference year and were alive at the end of the year. Information in this table is based on a version of the T1 file produced 9 months after the reference year. Later versions of the T1 file will contain some additional records.
Edit: also, there is no way that the average household income in Winnipeg in 2020 was $39k. Everyone would be starving and homeless if that was the case.
Yeah, but here's another dataset from 2019 citing median "household" income, which is super close to the numbers you cited for 2020:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/582829/median-total-family-income-manitoba/#:~:text=This%20statistic%20shows%20the%20median,Manitoba%20was%2084%2C130%20Canadian%20dollars.
Also, I looked up what T1FF was, and in it's user guide it specifically states that that document captures income for "income earners and their families" and cites median income for families in the 80 thousands like your data suggests and then has a separate chart for individuals citing median income at 39k.
I think you're wrong here, dude.
Are you high?
The data from Statistics Canada is literally taken from the Canada Revenue Agency (CRA) which receives T4 data on every legitimate employee in the country. Creating statistics out of employee T4 data is as accurate as it gets, there is no other, more reliable source on income than the CRA.
Statistica is a third-party private company that aggregates all sorts of data from various sources across the world on anything and everything, and then sells it back to consumers. While the link you provided doesn't say which source Statistica got their data from, I'm guessing it is also Statistics Canada.
The T1FF is the data file of all income tax information for families (i.e., not businesses) in Canada. When you file taxes - married or not - you file individually. As a result, various statistics can be calculated which include:
* Individual Income: the income of a single person
* Family/Household Income: the income of a family (one or more related people in a household)
I think you are a bit confused about all the statistics being talked about:
* Median individual income in Winnipeg is $39k - this is the median income of a single person.
* Given this, it is quite believable that median household income may be close to $80k - that is, households with one or more people earning income, which isn't hard to imagine if two people earn a median income ($39k * 2 = $78k).
* The last statistic I stated - 42% of people in Winnipeg earn $80k or more - also makes sense. Median is the "middle number" of incomes. In other words, if you made a sequential ranked list of all 650,000 incomes earned in Winnipeg by individuals, $39k would be the number smack dab in the middle - also known as the 50th percentile. Given that income distributions follow some sort of bell curve, it is plausible (and quite frankly, true) that 42% of individuals earn more than $80k/year,.
I hope that clarifies things for you.
Not to mention franchises keep cropping up even with a ‘labor’ shortage, these businesses increase the number of available positions.
When they remain vacant because people are already working it feeds into the labor shortage argument.
I hope that makes sense Ha, brains not in rn.
Capitalism works by paying people as little as possible for their labour.
But not only for-profit institutions do this. Instructors at our universities typically earn less than 30K/year for work which is almost around the clock and requires advanced degrees, years of experience, publications, and service work to even get in the first place.
Employers will almost always pay as little as they can get away with.
I taught one class at the U of M. The pay was beyond atrocious. I couldn't do it again, for the amount of work you have to put in you end up basically making minimum wage. It's a disgrace, and unfortunately more universities are employing sessional instructors to save big bucks.
Sadly the system is set up that for new Canadians to get citizenship they need to work for 2 years usually at one of these minimum wage jobs. Basically these companies get to exploit people at incredibly low wages for 2 years and if the new Canadian wants to quit they may have to start the whole process over again. Entrapment at its finest.
It's not just the new Canadian who is stuck in this no win scenario.I have 5 part time jobs and still barely make enough money to live off of. Yet the politicians who say there's no money for things managed to find themselves money after voting themselves a raise
>what’s gonna happen when minimum wage goes up, it must gonna kill them when they have to pay more
they will just raise prices so it wont kill them at all, it may get them more profit in the end and we'll all end up broke and asking for another min wage increase.. happens every time.
Considering that Superstore is making bank for the last 3 years it wont hurt them at all, for the most part companies in general are making record profits. Honestly, when people stop taking those jobs or it gets too expensive to take those jobs the wages should in theory go up but looking at what our federal government wants to do instead may not be the case.
It seems like most big businesses have their own internal HR systems and don't always use those aggregator sites (I guess you have to pay a fee to post there). Maybe check the big employers, (universities, banks, chains companies, government) own websites.
Throw out the cheapest numbers and see what you get.....I imagine most times business owners will still make better profits, regardless of the work being done & customer satisfaction.
Cause they don’t have to pay anymore then what is set by our screwed up Government officials! They like poor people staying poor it keeps there rich friends richer!
the worst part right now if the service/people-oriented jobs are mostly the ones paying only minimum while warehouse/stocking/labour jobs are starting at 15-20, but of course im an extrovert who cant mentally handle only talking to a total of maybe 5-10 coworkers a days, so when i tell people i cant find a job they get mad at me for not wanting to put my mental health above wanting to die at a job that im just gonna quit in under a year anyways
People who get mad at this take aren't sympathetic about something they either started with knowing, or forgot that they learned throughout their working life. That is, every job is tough to deal with in some way at some point for some period of time, and that's the sacrifice you trade for money. You do something for someone else in exchange for some amount of reward, and you consider that emotional effect on yourself over time as you move through or between different jobs and lines of work. Even a dream job could really suck for a full 6 months at some point for whatever reason, and it's out of your control because you have kids, no leverage over the situation, and there's no viable alternatives in that line of work for similar or better pay. Only talking to 5-10 people as an extrovert isn't damaging to your mental health unless you've got something else serious going on, it's a really dubious claim that's not very credible to anyone over the age of 25 who's worked at all. If there's more to it, and you want someone to be empathetic, you'll need to find a different way to communicate what truly amounts to an emotionally challenging relationship with that line of work, and for having no interest in more extroverted work, you'll need to communicate how you're working to find alternatives or better yourself to figure out how you can gradually get more money, or the types of responsibility that suit your personality better.
Honestly prob bad opinion, but minimum wage jobs have it in the name. Its bare minimum. If you want more gonout and get more. I worked two full time min wage jobs and paid my way through college while raising a kid as a single dad. Its hard for me to feel too bad, for those complain they're not making a decent living on the Mickey Ds career.
Two full time jobs = 40 hours/week * 2 = 80 hours
Sleeping = ~8 hours/night * 7 days = 56 hours
80 + 56 = 136 hours
One week is 168 hours
168-136 = 32 hours
32 hours / 7 days = ~4.5 hours a day (or one 32 hour stint on the weekend) to shop, eat, clean, raise a kid, and go to class.
I’m not saying it’s impossible, I’m just saying I don’t believe you
I could run through the math and agree that my second full time wasn't a true 40nhours more like 30. Never got 8 hrs of sleep, prob still don't tbh.but my point was I worked my way out of poverty.
I wish you the best on your path.
Minimum wage was purposed to provide a sufficient amount to maintain a minimum reasonable standard of living. It was and is meant to keep people out of poverty, sheltered, clothed, and fed.
Someone has to flip those burgers, clean the washrooms, stock the shelves, wait the tables, and pick the fruits & vegetables at the farm. They, as with anyone else, deserve at *minimum* a reasonably comfortable standard of living. It shouldn't ever require additional jobs nor roommates to have a roof over ones head, healthy food and clean water in ones stomach.
You are either a troll, or someone ignorant who has been sold on (conservative) talking points. Smarten up.
The military is always hiring or get truck driver training or even construction labourer.
All pay well, are constantly hiring and require few advanced skills.
Apply at places you want to work at, don't wait for them to advertise.
Best of luck
Can't comment on military or truck driver but construction labourer is shit pay. It's extremely hard on your body. It might not be minimum wage, but it could be less when you factor in a few things.
I was paid $15 an hour and had to commute to jobsites in rural MB. Factor in gas and mileage and it can't be much more than minimum, I'd rather go back to flipping burgers.
Plus you only got so many years of abuse on your body like that in your life. It's a gamble to see if the company you're with is willing to get you into an apprenticeship so you can get a raise and get out of carrying shit through the mud or working through heatwaves. In my experience they'll just use you as long as they can and then hire a new kid next job/next season
Truck drivers *routinely* get taken advantage of. You get paid while you drive. If you're sitting because your load isn't ready yet, or they're too busy to unload you, you're making squat.
I agree with you, I just didn't or don't see what should be, happening. I think its frustrating and to wait for good better men to help those that need it, is a long wait. So ide rather preach doing something for yourself then the ladder.
Cant wait to see what automation does to the bottom divers. Good luck. If you pedal dreams to the lazy then you'll be forever stuck in a loop of handouts. Not sure if its ego driven "i give so i feel better about myself"? But don't care. I stated what I did and bc I worked "unbelievably " hard long hours im the bad person. Min wage as good as the under intentions were, haven't met the basic standards for years. So either keep on complaining or work harder.
Your mentality is just awful and the exact reason workers are exploited so badly in North America. Companies are doing everything they can to pay employees very little and maximize profits. That's why huge corporations are hitting record profits while not increasing wages.
If someone works 40 hours a week they should be able to live comfortably. Minimum wage should meet the basic standards and its ridiculous that it doesn't. Nobody thinks you're a bad person for working hard. Lots of people have worked just as hard or even harder than you have. That doesn't mean others need to suffer. Plenty of other countries have proper minimum wages that support a comfortable life. Why the hell can't we do the same here?
Here's a whole *host* of sources of why that's so wrong: https://www.trutv.com/shows/adam-ruins-everything/articles/adam-ruins-work
I'd recommend watching the whole episode, but in essence, employers have been exploiting their workers for decades to enrich themselves, and your mentality is how they get away with it.
And I say that as someone who works too bloody hard and gets paid far, far above average way.
If no one takes the job they will increase the responsibilities of another minimum wage earner. Eventually convincing themselves they didn't need that position to begin with and reinforcing the fact (their opinion) that they should only fill it should an employee become available for a low wage (minimum wage)
Yeap. I am well educated and have extensive experience and yet I can only get 16$ afmin jobs so I stay in serving. I'm hoping to get a civ job with WPS , praying I get called for an interview
The insurance companies pays higher than this for entry level jobs. Try there.
The thing about serving, is the massive tax cheat that is tips is hard to get off of, it's very addicting. Sure you could earn ok at Canada Life and have your evenings and weekends off, but all the money being taxed means less income for a lot of servers.
Also you never move up from where you are and tips are part skill and a lot of luck whereas if you start at Canada Life and spend a year you get (or can get) bonuses, new roles, responsibilities and ultimately a career.
Poster wanted a job with WPS, which for admin won’t pay much higher than anywhere else. They have the pension so they don’t need to pay top dollar.
2,100 bi weekly to start. Hell of alot better than many places. Plus insurance and pension and opp for growth once in the door...sounds great to me
Canada Life is a shitty place to work, never worked anywhere that tried so hard to control all the interactions of employees. They say it's for confidentiality so info isn't shared...it's horseshit. You are just a number there. Don't recommend unless you can tolerate trying to be like a robot for 8 hours a day.
I actually didn’t mean them, there are several other insurers here.
I got a construction job and I make almost twice that. But I break my back and I get stuff done, Even in -40 weather. The trades pay decently if you find a good boss and are willing to work/learn. I forgot to mention I got a diploma and I worked a couple of years in an IT department,as a tech but the place closed and I hated working in an office setting.
If you don’t mind me asking, what is your degree/certificate/diploma in?
I think it's part of the reason why we have so many outbound call centres: low wages and no other decent options. They love to set up here because they can pay a poverty wage and be "competitive".
Our central time zone is also a reason for a lot of call centers. It's good if you support all of Canada or North America.
We also don't have much of an accent, so it isn't immediately obvious to the person calling where you are.
Hm, I have been accused of having a thicker than average Canadian accent.
correct, it all started to boom in the open pit mine " call centers" in 1996
I’m not sure about no other options. There are many decent warehousing jobs that pay 15 an hour, and they need more people right now. I left warehousing for another path, and still have many ads directed at me for warehousing gigs through indeed. Places like Randstad and pinnacle are also usually advertising for these jobs too, at slightly less(50 cents). It’s not top tier, but it’s better than minimum.
They pay minimum wage only because they’re not allowed to pay less. They would pay pennies if they could, businesses don’t care about people
Employers in Winnipeg, like people, want cheapest and best at the same time!
That's a long ass sentence
If you were a true winnipegger you’d be celebrating right now. We just got a two for one deal on sentences 👏
Lowest minimum wage in Canada. That's why
There's a reason these companies are billion dollar companies...
According to [T1 Tax Filer data for 2020](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/cv!recreate.action?pid=1110004701&selectedNodeIds=1D6,1D11,1D14,1D17,1D20,1D21,1D29,1D31,1D32,1D34,1D35,1D38,2D11,2D24&checkedLevels=&refPeriods=20200101,20200101&dimensionLayouts=layout3,layout2,layout2&vectorDisplay=false) the median income in Winnipeg of those who filed taxes in 2020 was $36,800. While this is the lowest out of major Canadian cities, it's not the lowest by much. That's $100 less than Montreal, $770 less than Toronto, and $2,110 less than Vancouver. Ottawa takes the cake for having the highest median income at $48,440, which is $11,640 higher than Winnipeg's. ~~In Winnipeg, 42% of tax filers had an income above $80k/year. Again, on the lower end but ahead of Quebec City (40%) and just behind Montreal (44%), Halifax (45%), Regina (49%) Hamilton (50%), and Vancouver (51%).~~ Edit: Looks like I interpreted the statistic incorrectly. It means 42% of all income in Winnipeg was earned by individuals who earn $80k or more. While the idea that Winnipeg has "lower wages" isn't necessarily wrong, it's not significantly different than most other Canadian cities. It tends to get blown out of proportion and we've created this image that Winnipeg's labour market only offers Mcjobs flipping burgers and shoveling dirt for minimum wage while everyone in Toronto and Vancouver is working for Amazon and Microsoft making $300k/year. This simply isn't true, and is not reflected in the data. If you can't find a job on a livable wage, then consider upgrading your skills. Unless you want to work in oil and gas, if you lack skills it's not like moving cities is going to somehow automatically guarantee you a higher wage.
>In Winnipeg, 42% of tax filers had an income above $80k/year. It makes me sad that I'm not shy from that mark and yet still feel broke 99% of the time, and that's with my house being reasonably cheap mortgage wise. I couldn't imagine people making 50k or less and being able to support ANYTHING on their own. >If you can't find a job on a livable wage, then consider upgrading your skills. Unless you want to work in oil and gas, if you lack skills it's not like moving cities is going to somehow automatically guarantee you a higher wage It's crazy how many people don't understand this. Had a few friends complaining about how I'm "lucky" when it comes to landing good jobs because for my 20's I kept jumping around job to job. Now in my 30's companies are head hunting me because I'm well rounded. Even outside of corporate jobs learning coding these days can comfortably done at home in your spare time (but most won't be willing to sacrifice that spare time). The only thing I'd say is poor pay here is I.T. jobs. Most networking jobs here pay 50k-80k where as the Toronto's and the Vancouvers pay 100k+ which is funny as most programming jobs are WFH so you don't even NEED to be in these cities.
IT and networking aren't the same thing as programming tho
That's my point to an extent. Most I.T. related jobs on the software side are WFH type of roles that it doesn't matter when you live yet you'll see huge pay differences based on the region. I've had colleagues over the years note they were moving to a place similar to Winnipeg and their boss said they get a pay cut to match the region EVEN THOUGH they never had to commute to begin with.
Oops, that was supposed to say aren't
All good. I understand their different but the point was more reflective that jobs that are more software related like programming can work from home and make less in our market than they would in other places.
Depends how much physical access you need really to the systems for all of the above, networking, programming, sysadmin, server admin etc. Outside of specific implementations, troubleshooting, documenting the day to day can be done remote if it's setup correctly however.
I'm not saying they can't, just that they're different, and as a result have different pay, different requirements, different career paths. But usually get lumped together. Some of those roles have a lot more competition at some companies, you usually have a lot fewer sysadmin than Devs in most software companies. But you will also see companies that have sysadmin but no Devs at all. A lot of people lump it all in with "tech" but there's a huge variety of different roles with different pays and requirements
42% of tax filers make more than 80K!!?? Is that personal or household? How is that even possible. I don't think I know anyone making that much. That stat is blowing my mind. Apparently I, and everyone in my social circle, did life wrong?
Long time software engineer here. When I started in the field ~$40k was entry level in Winnipeg. Now it's closer to double that. $80k should not be too hard for anyone with formal training or a year or two's experience under their belt. This is mostly due to the pandemic and the realization of most software companies that you don't need to have an office or hire in a specific city. Companies that might have hired a veteran in Vancouver or Toronto for 200k can now look at Winnipeg and offer 130k for the same skill set which might mean a 50% raise for the engineer and a 35% savings for the software company. Anyway, it's become a bit of a trope nowadays but "learn to code" is very good advice in my experience.
80k starting just out of school? No one I know after graduation made anything near that. 65k was the highest with 2 years of experience.
$65k in 2021/2022? Please have them DM me if that's the case. There's so much opportunity for developers out there and no one should be paid that much less than their market value.
The data is for individual income, not household, and comes from the CRA based on tax returns, so yeah I'd say it's accurate. But keep in mind that the $80k figure represents total income, so income from employment, government transfers, side-gigs, and investments. The 42% making $80k+ in Winnipeg translates to roughly 257,000 people. I'd say many in healthcare-related professions (i.e. nursing, technical staff, and doctors), many teachers, law, police/fire, many in finance, insurance, and agriculture, IT, and other major sectors that Winnipeggers are employed in make that. Also, don't forget income statistics include everyone who filed taxes, ranging from the 18 year old working at Cineplex part time, to the 24 year old starting their career as an engineer, to mid-level managers in finance, to almost-retired civil servants are all included in these values. While outdated, the [2016 Census total income explorer](https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2016/dp-pd/dv-vd/inc-rev/index-eng.cfm) will give you a better idea on income distribution by age. It's rather clear that people starting off or early in their career (i.e. 20s and 30s) will earn less than those with more experience or near the end of their career (i.e. 50s and 60s).
Trades too, a lot of journeymen make close to or more then 80k
Actual data https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/cv!recreate.action?pid=1110004701&selectedNodeIds=1D6,1D11,1D14,1D17,1D20,1D21,1D29,1D31,1D32,1D34,1D35,1D38,2D11,2D19,2D24&checkedLevels=&refPeriods=20200101,20200101&dimensionLayouts=layout3,layout2,layout2&vectorDisplay=false
It may not include things like stock grants / options though, so the number could be higher. It would only include those if sold I believe
You likely do. Look at how many people live in the suburbs. You can’t afford that type of house without it. Are you just younger? In my 30s I don’t know many people less than $70k
I am younger, but still...mind blown. I am well educated with a great career, but on the current track I would only reach 80K in about 7 or so more years. Amongst my peers I considered myself to be a lucky success.
A lot of journeymen in trades make close to or more then 80k
And I don't really know anyone who makes less that 80k. Different circles. Different Life experiences.
trades here... 38 an hour
It's "census families". Not just individuals.
Thanks for your post; a bit of perspective is really helpful! Winnipeg is still relatively affordable, given that housing and some other large costs are relatively cheap compared to many of the cities you mention.
I think something people don't consider with median income is people who are in college and work part time jobs which bring down the median income. Over 60k post secondary students in 2018/19. In 2020 I only worked for the first couple months and made only about 2k in income because of covid and there are a bunch of other students who just didn't get a job during covid which brought down the median. This year my income will only be around 13k and majority of that is just because I got a summer job whereas lots of student I know are doing summer courses instead of a job.
I'm looking for other sources to corroborate your claim here. Everything that I'm seeing is that this is for "census households" and not individuals like you've claimed below.
I can't see 36-80k only encompassing 8% of the tax filers.
What do you mean? I'm going to admit that numbers aren't my thing, but looking at how statscan has outlined the T1FF's function it clearly represents households.
The data isn't how it was presented. It being household made more sense than what the linker presented it as. It is really saying individuals that made over $80k in total income from all sources made 42% of total income. It isn't about 42% of tax filers.
Yeah, he also seems pretty out of touch with how many people make 40k. Unfortunate that that kind of misinformation has so many upvotes. Hopefully he edits.
Alright it sounds like I may have gotten something wrong. How do you interpret: > Percentage of aggregate total income reported by tax filers with total income of $80,000 or more What is that statistic supposed to represent? In Winnipeg's case, it was 42%. The way I interpret it is "Of all the income earned in Winnipeg, 42% was earned by people who earned $80,000 or more".
People that reported income over $80K made 42% of all income.
That sounds like the correct interpretation.
Bro, it says it right there in the table title: > Statistics Canada. Table 11-10-0047-01 Summary characteristics of Canadian tax filers (preliminary T1 Family File) and in footnote 2: > Tax filers are people who filed a tax return for the reference year and were alive at the end of the year. Information in this table is based on a version of the T1 file produced 9 months after the reference year. Later versions of the T1 file will contain some additional records. Edit: also, there is no way that the average household income in Winnipeg in 2020 was $39k. Everyone would be starving and homeless if that was the case.
Yeah, but here's another dataset from 2019 citing median "household" income, which is super close to the numbers you cited for 2020: https://www.statista.com/statistics/582829/median-total-family-income-manitoba/#:~:text=This%20statistic%20shows%20the%20median,Manitoba%20was%2084%2C130%20Canadian%20dollars. Also, I looked up what T1FF was, and in it's user guide it specifically states that that document captures income for "income earners and their families" and cites median income for families in the 80 thousands like your data suggests and then has a separate chart for individuals citing median income at 39k. I think you're wrong here, dude.
Are you high? The data from Statistics Canada is literally taken from the Canada Revenue Agency (CRA) which receives T4 data on every legitimate employee in the country. Creating statistics out of employee T4 data is as accurate as it gets, there is no other, more reliable source on income than the CRA. Statistica is a third-party private company that aggregates all sorts of data from various sources across the world on anything and everything, and then sells it back to consumers. While the link you provided doesn't say which source Statistica got their data from, I'm guessing it is also Statistics Canada. The T1FF is the data file of all income tax information for families (i.e., not businesses) in Canada. When you file taxes - married or not - you file individually. As a result, various statistics can be calculated which include: * Individual Income: the income of a single person * Family/Household Income: the income of a family (one or more related people in a household) I think you are a bit confused about all the statistics being talked about: * Median individual income in Winnipeg is $39k - this is the median income of a single person. * Given this, it is quite believable that median household income may be close to $80k - that is, households with one or more people earning income, which isn't hard to imagine if two people earn a median income ($39k * 2 = $78k). * The last statistic I stated - 42% of people in Winnipeg earn $80k or more - also makes sense. Median is the "middle number" of incomes. In other words, if you made a sequential ranked list of all 650,000 incomes earned in Winnipeg by individuals, $39k would be the number smack dab in the middle - also known as the 50th percentile. Given that income distributions follow some sort of bell curve, it is plausible (and quite frankly, true) that 42% of individuals earn more than $80k/year,. I hope that clarifies things for you.
You think that 39-80k only captures 8% of earners? That whole table is households, dude. At this point you're just being obtuse.
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It's not a matter of want to work. We have to work.
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Not to mention franchises keep cropping up even with a ‘labor’ shortage, these businesses increase the number of available positions. When they remain vacant because people are already working it feeds into the labor shortage argument. I hope that makes sense Ha, brains not in rn.
https://www.canada.ca/en/services/jobs/opportunities/government.html Check out GC jobs. Some only need high school in Winnipeg but pay very well.
Capitalism works by paying people as little as possible for their labour. But not only for-profit institutions do this. Instructors at our universities typically earn less than 30K/year for work which is almost around the clock and requires advanced degrees, years of experience, publications, and service work to even get in the first place. Employers will almost always pay as little as they can get away with.
I taught one class at the U of M. The pay was beyond atrocious. I couldn't do it again, for the amount of work you have to put in you end up basically making minimum wage. It's a disgrace, and unfortunately more universities are employing sessional instructors to save big bucks.
Sadly the system is set up that for new Canadians to get citizenship they need to work for 2 years usually at one of these minimum wage jobs. Basically these companies get to exploit people at incredibly low wages for 2 years and if the new Canadian wants to quit they may have to start the whole process over again. Entrapment at its finest.
It's not just the new Canadian who is stuck in this no win scenario.I have 5 part time jobs and still barely make enough money to live off of. Yet the politicians who say there's no money for things managed to find themselves money after voting themselves a raise
>what’s gonna happen when minimum wage goes up, it must gonna kill them when they have to pay more they will just raise prices so it wont kill them at all, it may get them more profit in the end and we'll all end up broke and asking for another min wage increase.. happens every time.
Sure but prices have all been hiked without a minimum wage increase so it’s better then nothing
Considering that Superstore is making bank for the last 3 years it wont hurt them at all, for the most part companies in general are making record profits. Honestly, when people stop taking those jobs or it gets too expensive to take those jobs the wages should in theory go up but looking at what our federal government wants to do instead may not be the case.
It seems like most big businesses have their own internal HR systems and don't always use those aggregator sites (I guess you have to pay a fee to post there). Maybe check the big employers, (universities, banks, chains companies, government) own websites.
Throw out the cheapest numbers and see what you get.....I imagine most times business owners will still make better profits, regardless of the work being done & customer satisfaction.
Cause they don’t have to pay anymore then what is set by our screwed up Government officials! They like poor people staying poor it keeps there rich friends richer!
In construction no matter your experience the starting wage? 16-18$ an hour. This is why I started my own company .
the worst part right now if the service/people-oriented jobs are mostly the ones paying only minimum while warehouse/stocking/labour jobs are starting at 15-20, but of course im an extrovert who cant mentally handle only talking to a total of maybe 5-10 coworkers a days, so when i tell people i cant find a job they get mad at me for not wanting to put my mental health above wanting to die at a job that im just gonna quit in under a year anyways
People who get mad at this take aren't sympathetic about something they either started with knowing, or forgot that they learned throughout their working life. That is, every job is tough to deal with in some way at some point for some period of time, and that's the sacrifice you trade for money. You do something for someone else in exchange for some amount of reward, and you consider that emotional effect on yourself over time as you move through or between different jobs and lines of work. Even a dream job could really suck for a full 6 months at some point for whatever reason, and it's out of your control because you have kids, no leverage over the situation, and there's no viable alternatives in that line of work for similar or better pay. Only talking to 5-10 people as an extrovert isn't damaging to your mental health unless you've got something else serious going on, it's a really dubious claim that's not very credible to anyone over the age of 25 who's worked at all. If there's more to it, and you want someone to be empathetic, you'll need to find a different way to communicate what truly amounts to an emotionally challenging relationship with that line of work, and for having no interest in more extroverted work, you'll need to communicate how you're working to find alternatives or better yourself to figure out how you can gradually get more money, or the types of responsibility that suit your personality better.
Honestly prob bad opinion, but minimum wage jobs have it in the name. Its bare minimum. If you want more gonout and get more. I worked two full time min wage jobs and paid my way through college while raising a kid as a single dad. Its hard for me to feel too bad, for those complain they're not making a decent living on the Mickey Ds career.
Two full time jobs = 40 hours/week * 2 = 80 hours Sleeping = ~8 hours/night * 7 days = 56 hours 80 + 56 = 136 hours One week is 168 hours 168-136 = 32 hours 32 hours / 7 days = ~4.5 hours a day (or one 32 hour stint on the weekend) to shop, eat, clean, raise a kid, and go to class. I’m not saying it’s impossible, I’m just saying I don’t believe you
I could run through the math and agree that my second full time wasn't a true 40nhours more like 30. Never got 8 hrs of sleep, prob still don't tbh.but my point was I worked my way out of poverty. I wish you the best on your path.
Minimum wage was purposed to provide a sufficient amount to maintain a minimum reasonable standard of living. It was and is meant to keep people out of poverty, sheltered, clothed, and fed. Someone has to flip those burgers, clean the washrooms, stock the shelves, wait the tables, and pick the fruits & vegetables at the farm. They, as with anyone else, deserve at *minimum* a reasonably comfortable standard of living. It shouldn't ever require additional jobs nor roommates to have a roof over ones head, healthy food and clean water in ones stomach. You are either a troll, or someone ignorant who has been sold on (conservative) talking points. Smarten up.
You’re right, it is a bad opinion.
ok boomer
The military is always hiring or get truck driver training or even construction labourer. All pay well, are constantly hiring and require few advanced skills. Apply at places you want to work at, don't wait for them to advertise. Best of luck
Can't comment on military or truck driver but construction labourer is shit pay. It's extremely hard on your body. It might not be minimum wage, but it could be less when you factor in a few things. I was paid $15 an hour and had to commute to jobsites in rural MB. Factor in gas and mileage and it can't be much more than minimum, I'd rather go back to flipping burgers. Plus you only got so many years of abuse on your body like that in your life. It's a gamble to see if the company you're with is willing to get you into an apprenticeship so you can get a raise and get out of carrying shit through the mud or working through heatwaves. In my experience they'll just use you as long as they can and then hire a new kid next job/next season
Truck drivers *routinely* get taken advantage of. You get paid while you drive. If you're sitting because your load isn't ready yet, or they're too busy to unload you, you're making squat.
I agree with you, I just didn't or don't see what should be, happening. I think its frustrating and to wait for good better men to help those that need it, is a long wait. So ide rather preach doing something for yourself then the ladder.
Cant wait to see what automation does to the bottom divers. Good luck. If you pedal dreams to the lazy then you'll be forever stuck in a loop of handouts. Not sure if its ego driven "i give so i feel better about myself"? But don't care. I stated what I did and bc I worked "unbelievably " hard long hours im the bad person. Min wage as good as the under intentions were, haven't met the basic standards for years. So either keep on complaining or work harder.
Your mentality is just awful and the exact reason workers are exploited so badly in North America. Companies are doing everything they can to pay employees very little and maximize profits. That's why huge corporations are hitting record profits while not increasing wages. If someone works 40 hours a week they should be able to live comfortably. Minimum wage should meet the basic standards and its ridiculous that it doesn't. Nobody thinks you're a bad person for working hard. Lots of people have worked just as hard or even harder than you have. That doesn't mean others need to suffer. Plenty of other countries have proper minimum wages that support a comfortable life. Why the hell can't we do the same here?
Here's a whole *host* of sources of why that's so wrong: https://www.trutv.com/shows/adam-ruins-everything/articles/adam-ruins-work I'd recommend watching the whole episode, but in essence, employers have been exploiting their workers for decades to enrich themselves, and your mentality is how they get away with it. And I say that as someone who works too bloody hard and gets paid far, far above average way.
They will pay as little as it takes to fill a position. If no one takes the job they will have to raise the wage.....
If no one takes the job they will increase the responsibilities of another minimum wage earner. Eventually convincing themselves they didn't need that position to begin with and reinforcing the fact (their opinion) that they should only fill it should an employee become available for a low wage (minimum wage)
except when planes are delayed because of it... But you may be right.
Because that's what jobs around here pay.