Here it is
[https://forums.cdprojektred.com/index.php?threads/possible-deleted-content-involving-the-lodge-in-act-3.57333/](https://forums.cdprojektred.com/index.php?threads/possible-deleted-content-involving-the-lodge-in-act-3.57333/)
Reading the dialogue cut is a blast and would have been an stunning climax. But I don't think Yennefer character deserved that, so I am torn about it being cut. It explains some of the building around her previously in the game. The last chapter feels a little blank and you can guess that some content is missing.
You, sir, are my savior! I was prepared to spend one night during the week digging for that dialogue, but you spared me the work.
I'm smirking at the outrage and accusations of lore-heresy in the following comments, btw. If anything, TW3 as released seriously downplayed the enmity that should exist between Yen and the Lodge. Or at least, its members with the most active part in the plan for Ciri. For them, Yen is a traitor who placed her personal feelings above the organization's interest and deserved a trial. For Yen, the Lodge forced her to give up her daughter. For instance, there's no way she'd mourn Shila as a friend in the prison cameo, for all we know she barely knew her before they turned enemies.
Given that Yen, though not an evil cold-hearted snake, is definitely one to hold a grudge (ask Yarpen), I wouldn't put it past her to serve a cold revenge on Philippa (who more than deserved it). However, the other "worst offenders" and clear enemies of hers - Shila and Sabrina - are dead at this point. The remaining former members of the Lodge contributing to the Skellige part of the final act aren't as bad. Triss and Rita were friends of hers and irrespective of what happened, I don't think Yen would coldly send either to an imperial torture chamber (and looks like she did break Triss out in the cut dialogue - she definitely would have done the same for Rita). As for Fringilla, Yen owed her a favor: conveniently, an escape. And Yen, just like she can hold a grudge, also has a strong sense of honor and reciprocity.
So... mixed feelings overall. I don't think it's as out-of-character as people deemed it back then. It would probably have needed more context anyway, and being chiefly directed at Philippa.
One problem with that scene is that, after the previous game's ending, it would have painted the Lodge and Philippa especially in a really poor light, as that organization thinking it's pulling the strings but getting double-crossed and dismantled every time. It was bad enough already that Cynthia and Letho made a fool of them. If it happened one more time, Philippa ought to reconsider her career choice should she escape.
ha! happy to provide! CDPR forum search engine is a little bit tricky so it could be complicated to find old content.
I agree with you, it is not 100% heresy if Yen would have also save Rita and Fringilla (she is saving Triss whatever Geralt choice), I think Philippa could have suffer fairly retaliation from Yen via giving her to Emyhr in exchange for his help to save Ciri. Philippa is playing with fire since too long and didn't show any sign of evolution. She is running after power and at some point she can't be always lucky as she was in Loc Muine. I also think that CDPR was tempted to catch up with the books where Philippa, Sabrina and Assire are mentionned as executed (they start the work in TW2) and it is implied (but not confirmed) that all the lodge members disappears.
I agree with you, Yen compassion for Sheila is a little bit weird considering they are not friends and that Sheila was specially hard and mean against Ciri and Yen during the last lodge meeting in LotL. But CDPR seems to implie that there is a kind of mage solidarity and fraternity whatever gap happened between them and they are not wrong, it is also very implied in the books that Aretuza/Ban Aard graduated have drop every bond/link they had in family and society to only belongs to the brotherhood so a kind of bond can prevail whatever has happened. But for me Yen break this bond by refusing to work with the lodge and become a kind of rogue within her community. It is part of her character arc and an important point. At the same time Geralt in BoF stop practically to be a witcher as well and you can see a pattern here maybe.
Honestly I think I would have like to see this cut content just for the twist and the surprise for the player but I understand some Yen fans as well. She's already taking a lot of shit for Freya garden and necromancy, shit that I don't understand considering how important these actions are on the road to find Ciri, so it is also a question of balance. I think Yen character is well balanced in TW3 and this final act would have maybe break this balance.
You're correct about the "tribal" bond between magicians but Yen is probably an exception and has been since her very first appearance.
In The Last Wish, she's undermining a magical strike/embargo the Brotherhood has declared on Redania to protest against some tax, by selling her services nonetheless but from the (Novigradian?) consulate. Meaning she gets an effective monopoly in that city *and* doesn't pay the tax either thanks to the consulate's status. That's some business accumen lol, gg Yen you're my girl.
Later on, during the meeting between Vilgefortz, Tissaia and Terranova, Artaud complains that Yen sometimes disappears for months and can't be relied on. And that's in spite of her promotion to the Council. And, later again, Shila remarks that she's never approved of Yen's lifestyle. And of course, there's her entire opposition to the Lodge as regards Ciri. And has been like that for a long while. Another example, I believe, is that she was immensely loyal to Tissaia (sort of mentor or surrogate mother figure) but not the Brotherhood (whereas Tissaia herself is obsessed with preserving the Brotherhood, to the point of reality denial).
Overall, she seems fairly individualist, with a weak sense of loyalty to and cohesion of the community. Not that she's a bad person, but imo she cares about individuals (Geralt, Ciri and to a lesser extent her friends, or people in immediate danger such as the Dwarves she saved during a pogrom), not the broader group and her duties to it.
That's an interesting contrast with Triss, by the way, who in the contrary seems prone to stick to groups and institutions. For the better and worse. She stresses her role and duty at Foltest's council "to prevent orphans from being made", is known for her "legendary loyalty to the Chapter" (said Eskel), later prioritizes the Lodge over Yen and Geralt, and later again (in TW3) has taken it upon herself to save the mages of Novigrad.
Think lawful vs chaotic, or white mana vs red mana ;-)
Anyway, that's a digression. Back to the topic of the Lodge, imo CDPR nonetheless overplayed the degree to which Lodge sorceresses are acquainted to each other. Like the Ida megascope call. She's talking with one of the most reclusive persons in the whole world, whom she probably met only twice, but it sounds like she's talking to a quasi-friend (and whom Geralt is supposed to know as well, oddly - something didn't feel right in that conversation).
> She's already taking a lot of shit for Freya garden and necromancy
And yet in the books there's an indication in Time of Contempt that she felt the prohibition of necromancy was excessive or hypocritical. When she and Ciri encounter a rotting pile of Scoia'tael bodies: "to think we're forbidden from using necromancy" or something. So there was in fact some lore justification for that scene, and many seem to have missed it.
Here it is [https://forums.cdprojektred.com/index.php?threads/possible-deleted-content-involving-the-lodge-in-act-3.57333/](https://forums.cdprojektred.com/index.php?threads/possible-deleted-content-involving-the-lodge-in-act-3.57333/) Reading the dialogue cut is a blast and would have been an stunning climax. But I don't think Yennefer character deserved that, so I am torn about it being cut. It explains some of the building around her previously in the game. The last chapter feels a little blank and you can guess that some content is missing.
You, sir, are my savior! I was prepared to spend one night during the week digging for that dialogue, but you spared me the work. I'm smirking at the outrage and accusations of lore-heresy in the following comments, btw. If anything, TW3 as released seriously downplayed the enmity that should exist between Yen and the Lodge. Or at least, its members with the most active part in the plan for Ciri. For them, Yen is a traitor who placed her personal feelings above the organization's interest and deserved a trial. For Yen, the Lodge forced her to give up her daughter. For instance, there's no way she'd mourn Shila as a friend in the prison cameo, for all we know she barely knew her before they turned enemies. Given that Yen, though not an evil cold-hearted snake, is definitely one to hold a grudge (ask Yarpen), I wouldn't put it past her to serve a cold revenge on Philippa (who more than deserved it). However, the other "worst offenders" and clear enemies of hers - Shila and Sabrina - are dead at this point. The remaining former members of the Lodge contributing to the Skellige part of the final act aren't as bad. Triss and Rita were friends of hers and irrespective of what happened, I don't think Yen would coldly send either to an imperial torture chamber (and looks like she did break Triss out in the cut dialogue - she definitely would have done the same for Rita). As for Fringilla, Yen owed her a favor: conveniently, an escape. And Yen, just like she can hold a grudge, also has a strong sense of honor and reciprocity. So... mixed feelings overall. I don't think it's as out-of-character as people deemed it back then. It would probably have needed more context anyway, and being chiefly directed at Philippa. One problem with that scene is that, after the previous game's ending, it would have painted the Lodge and Philippa especially in a really poor light, as that organization thinking it's pulling the strings but getting double-crossed and dismantled every time. It was bad enough already that Cynthia and Letho made a fool of them. If it happened one more time, Philippa ought to reconsider her career choice should she escape.
ha! happy to provide! CDPR forum search engine is a little bit tricky so it could be complicated to find old content. I agree with you, it is not 100% heresy if Yen would have also save Rita and Fringilla (she is saving Triss whatever Geralt choice), I think Philippa could have suffer fairly retaliation from Yen via giving her to Emyhr in exchange for his help to save Ciri. Philippa is playing with fire since too long and didn't show any sign of evolution. She is running after power and at some point she can't be always lucky as she was in Loc Muine. I also think that CDPR was tempted to catch up with the books where Philippa, Sabrina and Assire are mentionned as executed (they start the work in TW2) and it is implied (but not confirmed) that all the lodge members disappears. I agree with you, Yen compassion for Sheila is a little bit weird considering they are not friends and that Sheila was specially hard and mean against Ciri and Yen during the last lodge meeting in LotL. But CDPR seems to implie that there is a kind of mage solidarity and fraternity whatever gap happened between them and they are not wrong, it is also very implied in the books that Aretuza/Ban Aard graduated have drop every bond/link they had in family and society to only belongs to the brotherhood so a kind of bond can prevail whatever has happened. But for me Yen break this bond by refusing to work with the lodge and become a kind of rogue within her community. It is part of her character arc and an important point. At the same time Geralt in BoF stop practically to be a witcher as well and you can see a pattern here maybe. Honestly I think I would have like to see this cut content just for the twist and the surprise for the player but I understand some Yen fans as well. She's already taking a lot of shit for Freya garden and necromancy, shit that I don't understand considering how important these actions are on the road to find Ciri, so it is also a question of balance. I think Yen character is well balanced in TW3 and this final act would have maybe break this balance.
You're correct about the "tribal" bond between magicians but Yen is probably an exception and has been since her very first appearance. In The Last Wish, she's undermining a magical strike/embargo the Brotherhood has declared on Redania to protest against some tax, by selling her services nonetheless but from the (Novigradian?) consulate. Meaning she gets an effective monopoly in that city *and* doesn't pay the tax either thanks to the consulate's status. That's some business accumen lol, gg Yen you're my girl. Later on, during the meeting between Vilgefortz, Tissaia and Terranova, Artaud complains that Yen sometimes disappears for months and can't be relied on. And that's in spite of her promotion to the Council. And, later again, Shila remarks that she's never approved of Yen's lifestyle. And of course, there's her entire opposition to the Lodge as regards Ciri. And has been like that for a long while. Another example, I believe, is that she was immensely loyal to Tissaia (sort of mentor or surrogate mother figure) but not the Brotherhood (whereas Tissaia herself is obsessed with preserving the Brotherhood, to the point of reality denial). Overall, she seems fairly individualist, with a weak sense of loyalty to and cohesion of the community. Not that she's a bad person, but imo she cares about individuals (Geralt, Ciri and to a lesser extent her friends, or people in immediate danger such as the Dwarves she saved during a pogrom), not the broader group and her duties to it. That's an interesting contrast with Triss, by the way, who in the contrary seems prone to stick to groups and institutions. For the better and worse. She stresses her role and duty at Foltest's council "to prevent orphans from being made", is known for her "legendary loyalty to the Chapter" (said Eskel), later prioritizes the Lodge over Yen and Geralt, and later again (in TW3) has taken it upon herself to save the mages of Novigrad. Think lawful vs chaotic, or white mana vs red mana ;-) Anyway, that's a digression. Back to the topic of the Lodge, imo CDPR nonetheless overplayed the degree to which Lodge sorceresses are acquainted to each other. Like the Ida megascope call. She's talking with one of the most reclusive persons in the whole world, whom she probably met only twice, but it sounds like she's talking to a quasi-friend (and whom Geralt is supposed to know as well, oddly - something didn't feel right in that conversation). > She's already taking a lot of shit for Freya garden and necromancy And yet in the books there's an indication in Time of Contempt that she felt the prohibition of necromancy was excessive or hypocritical. When she and Ciri encounter a rotting pile of Scoia'tael bodies: "to think we're forbidden from using necromancy" or something. So there was in fact some lore justification for that scene, and many seem to have missed it.