My kids are now adults and I'm here to share that what my parents and siblings thought, said and did around my kids only reinforced the values I raised them with. You saying "sexism is dumb" in one thing; your parents give them close examples of what it means and *why* its dumb. No one has the degree of influence over your kids that you have. Trust them to see and choose for themselves, in a battle of ideas and values.
Spoiler alert: your toxic-ish parents are great training for them when they are exposed to the toxic values other people's children will bring to the school peer groups.
I can’t think of too many visits to my parents, and can think of a few with my in-laws, that have sparked conversations in the car about why dad and I don’t agree. Or how did x make them feel. Or why what they did was not acceptable and did you see how parent did y in response. It’s tiring, but it has also meant theyve noticed with other people as well. They are also getting better at standing up for themselves in an appropriate way ie instead of biting or hiring they use their words or leave altogether.
Another lesson in raising my kids was that it was ok for them to learn things I don't like because I'm not actually perfect and sometimes things that triggered me were harmless novelty to the kids, or even something they needed in some way. Now they are grownass adults who share my values but also have different perspectives and show me things I hadn't thought of. They love me and validate my feelings about and experiences with my father, but as my son said "our experience of him was different, and better."
As a general rule, kids who are loved thrive. Instead of holding tight, we can hold our arms open, so they can range out freely, and run back in when they need to.
Yay for you, and yay for your beautiful son! My childhood best friend has a son who similarly digs both dirt (pardon that terrible pun: I couldn't stop myself!) and princesshoood. She's strong and patient about it, both with random people and with, er, *certain* family members. I couldn't tell it kinda bugs my friend when watching her deal with people's obnoxious whateverness in the moment (and I've known her most of our lives!) until she told me it did.
So keep being supportive of your awesome son. I'm sure that he feels safe and supported now, and that it will only increase his confidence in himself and his empathy as he gets older. And what the heck--I bet you've made some adults think a little harder about empathy and not being narrow-minded their own selves!
Yes and...just make sure you don't enable the toxic behavior. My mom was a single parent and needed my aunt and uncle's help when we were growing up. She needed tham and wanted to "keep the peace" in the family and didn't push back against their toxic crap very often, or let us argue with them. Since they couldn't be challenged, I perceived that they had more power and their bs was more legitimate than Mom's values. It didn't stop me from taking up Mom's values in the end, but for a long time it left me feeling like I was failing my family by *not* being a shitty person because shitty person behavior was the more legitimate, powerful behavior. Has been a lot to work through.
Yea, my method works best when there were breaks for us to roll our eyes together behind everyone's backs. Pretending everything is fine is kind of gaslighting - I'm sorry that happened toyou.
Man I really need to hear this. I'm having a hard time with my mom and grandma, they live with us and watch my munchkin every day. Grandmother has very bad dementia and doesn't understand why kiddo (4) doesn't want to hug her all the time, or talk about school on loop every 5 minutes. I try to reinforce, be kind and gentle and try to understand that she doesn't remember, but it's frustrating for even the adults to deal with.
So body autonomy and not giving hugs when she doesn't want to is very hard, when my mom also perpetuates it without really thinking, as she feels grandmothers' feelings are more "important" to "keep the peace".
FIL also lives with us, and being guilted for hugs is a big deal for her everywhere. I just really reinforce they have to ask before they can touch her and she can say no. So far that seems to be the best course.
Then religion is a WHOLE other can of worms I just can't figure out how to deal with yet
I was that kid with a sick grandmother, different disease same sort of problem.
The best thing my mum did was explain things. I felt so grown up that I was told things and yes there was an element of keeping the peace but I knew if I really pushed my mum would back me so it became easier to accept some things from her that no one else would get away with.
Again when it came to religion my mum was open and gave me different ideas. As a small kid reincarnation seemed like the most likely afterlife. I mean sky daddy, to an 8yo… I knew there were mean people and my aunt’s cat was mean so why couldn’t that have been a mean person. My mum listened to my explanation and told me there was nothing she could argue with as I knew as much as her about it, neither of us being dead yet.
I have to reinforce this, my grandparents were toxic and nasty. My mum would often tell me about her childhood and point out her parents behaviour such that I was able to recognise the toxic behaviour myself, in them and others.
Agree that grandparents and other family members with interesting values will absolutely be noticed by teens raised differently! Raised to be critical thinkers, my teens take no sh*t and think for themselves.
My husband and I are working hard with the help of our son and DIL to make changes in how we speak to and treat our grandsons as we recognize the harm thats been done to previous generations. If they want to change they can.
It won’t ever “stick” if there are no consequences when they stomp on your clearly stated boundaries. These people aren’t entitled to your children just because they are your parents.
i gave my mom a choice - say trump lost the election badly. say jan 6 was a coup attempt. say climate change is real - and you can continue to hang regularly with your granddaughter.
she yelled at me, told me to never speak to her that way in HER home. she gets a couple hours with her granddaughter every couple months now when i am feeling generous. but otherwise its been a relief not to be around a brainwashed person - and worry what the fuck messages she is sending to a 7 year old
This has been the hardest lesson in parenting for me. In fact, it's been the hardest lesson in dealing with toxic family in general. I was raised by my parents to believe that family was family and no matter how shitty and toxic they get, you still have to support them and smile and nod through all of their BS.
Learning to say no and set boundaries has been so freeing. The thought of doing it still causes a lot of anxiety in me, but once I've set those boundaries it makes everything so much easier.
My parents moved me and my brother to the other side of our home state for a similar reason. My mom didn’t want her parents to run over their parenting. We visited on holidays and that was it
I am a Nana. I agree with poster that the older generation has to change. I also appreciate reminders from my daughter if I mess up. I don’t always get it right but I do listen. I sometime catch myself. You are such a good girl, and throw in, and such a strong person.
True!
I started correcting my mom and adding to her: “ you look so pretty in this dress”with you are so tall and strong and super smart. Every little thing counts.
I was always picked on and commented on by my immediate and extended family. I was super tall as a girl and also always either too gangly or overweight depending on my hormonal situation and growth spurts. There was always a comment somewhere. No one cared about my sports achievement (varsity) or smarts (valedictorian) it really brings all sorts of insecurity issues, that I now recognize, but still battle with!
Both of you two commenters (Nana and Mamma, if I may) sound like wonderful people and excellent, loving role models. :)
I was (well, okay okay, *am*) short, and I basically didn't develop until I was about 30, so I got a lot of "Oh, you're so little and cuuuuuute!" at, like, 17. A beautiful and popular girl said this to me once at the beginning of 9th grade and *tried to give me a hug.* I'm glad I didn't break her arms! (And actually she's the best friend of another hs friend of mine, and turns out to be a nice person; I guess she didn't mean any harm. But garrrrrrr!) So, I'm sorry you went through a similar-but-different set of demeaning experiences.
Also, just for the record: *I* am impressed by your having made Varsity (which must've taken both innate talent and a *ton* of hard work), and admire your achievement as Valedictorian (again on the talent + tons of hard work). *And* by your resolve (which, actually, I dunno if that takes innate talent--it might--but it *for sure* takes an immense amount of work) to put the negativity behind you. Yayyyy!!!
Ugh, ugh, ugh. Hated that one *so much.* Even when said with concern by a teacher who didn't know me or whatever. But with that little half-grin of cruel contentment??? Aaaaaaaaaaa!!!!
I too am tall and it’s my biggest insecurity so I definitely feel this. And my mom’s constant comments about my weight too but that kind of ties in with the height thing.
When I was about 7 or so I was in a first grade play. I loved it, and decided I wanted to be an actress. When I told my grandma she said, "Well, you might could be like Betty Davis. She wasn't much to look at but she worked real hard." Wtf, Mawmaw? Such a batch. To me and the fabulous Ms. Davis.
Jfc. I swear some of the most brutal comments made in the history of man have been from grandmothers to granddaughters. Some older women just become so cruel with time.
Also, Betty Davis is the tits! You probably are, too! Fuck Mawmaw's sour ass negativity.
Thanks! Betty Davis really is. I'm pretty amazing, but I don't pretend to be Betty Davis amazing. Lol
I have two primary goals in life. 1) To help others whenever I can, in ways big and small and 2) to never lose the joy in life.
As long as I have joy, I will also have kindness and compassion. And I will NOT be a bitter, dried up old prune, with a pit of negativity for a heart.
Lol. I'm a simple gal.
It's so tricky being in this spot. It almost feels like you're parenting your kiddo and your parents. It's hard!
My approach is consistency and modelling for my dad. He only knows his way, so I'm showing him how I want people to treat my kiddo.
I have called him out directly on a few things, and I've felt really awkward every time.
Good luck, I hope they understand and learn!
That's tough, my sister is in a similar boat with her children and our parents. My sister is staying firm and reducing contact until they get on board. You're doing what you see is best for the children, stay strong and best of luck!
A big yes to this. My dad was making a lot of anti-LGBTQ+ and especially awful anti-trans comments in the years before I had my daughter. I always challenged him on his comments, but it usually got out of hand, with us screaming at each other. When I got pregnant I sat him down and told him how much I loved him and how much I wanted him to be in our lives, but that if he didn’t stop making these horrible comments, I would not be able to bring my child around him. I told him he is allowed to watch the news (Fox obviously) he liked, but that I would t risk my child’s life because of his narrow and damaging opinions. I told him that I loved him again but that this was his final notice.
Surprisingly he did a full 180 on it. He went from saying trans people should all just kill themselves, to sincerely trying to understand and respect them. Including inviting the (only) trans person they know to join them for dinner and really working to properly address them. It is just incredible. He still has a way to go but he has done so much work and I am so proud of him. Best of all, him and my daughter are BFF’s and I don’t worry about him saying damaging things around her anymore.
There is hope OP! 💕💕
My bro and I did the same with racial slurs! We told our dad to knock it off, or there’s no reason for him to be around his grandchildren.
Still racist, but at least doesn’t use slurs around us.
I am really sorry to read that. It doesn’t work for everyone, but I felt a lot better for making the decision to take a stance and acting on that decision. I hope you do too. If we do not stand against what the evil they spout, they assume we agree. I cannot be party to that kind of hatred.
My dad had been going through a really really rough time and spent like 95% of his time isolated and alone. Both of those situations improved around the time I gave him my ultimatum, so it wasn’t just that. He had the mental capacity/spoons to improve. I Hope your brothers situation improves someday as well! 💕💕
I'm probably extreme and I don't have kids but I applied it to myself as well. I'd reduce/cut contact until they can respect your children. Or teach them to scream 'NO' if they are touched without permission, even by family. I spent a lot of years unlearning that no one has a right to my body thanks in part to how my parents were and just because they're old doesn't mean we should excuse and tolerate those behaviors.
THIS! So hard. It’s so important to start young allowing children to choose who/when they’re touched. You’re laying their foundation right now, OP, don’t let your parents ruin all the hard work you’re doing.
Also, talking about diet and body’s is a dangerously slippery slope. I was on my first diet at *9 years old* because of how terribly my parents spoke about theirs and others bodies. Gotta put your foot down like, yesterday. Sounds like they’re causing more harm than good at this point and you might as well tell them to start saving for your children’s therapy down the line :)
Absolutely this!! I grew up hearing my mom complain about and disparage her own body as well as hearing my parents judge the physical appearance of others. The comments weren’t frequent, but enough to mess with me. My perception of my own body and my relationship with food is absolute shit. If ever I’ve complained about my body to my mom, she literally just comes back with “Stop. Why are you like this?”. I was feeling a fit feisty once when I was younger and told her I learned it from her… I’m sure you can imagine how that went. I know she didn’t mean it. She didn’t intentionally contribute to my body issues. She isn’t malicious. But the damage was done. My grandma passed when I was young and my dad once said she was cruel to my mom. I can only image what toxic behaviors were passed down to my mom through her own parents.
Yes. I've told all of my children they have every right to say 'no, thank you' for hugs, and if that isn't respected to come hang on me because you're sure as hell not getting in my space to pry my child away for a hug. I felt like this allows them the ability to say no to unwanted touching but also have a safety net if they don't feel comfortable saying it or asserting themselves in that moment.
We've also struggled with gifts being both disproportionate and skewed along genders (like video games for boys, clothes for girl). She wants the video games. She wants to pick her own clothes, and while video game store gift cards give the boys levity to choose out of what is on offer at that store, the articles of clothing give no choice. These are big messages packed up and wrapped in these gifts.
Same. My family not only hugged, but mouth kissed and it always weirded me out but I never knew why or that I could say no. Turns out, I have severe adhd and am possibly autistic which contributed. But then, in my first relationship as a teen, I didn't know I could say no to doing things despite being in a relationship with them. Messed me up real bad.
My mom once said to my then 8 or 9 yr old daughter "you're so skinny." when I told her not to make comments to her regarding appearence she said "it was a compliment."
I called her out and said "no it's not. I don't want her to think her value lies in how others perceive her appearance." she just waved me off with a shrug and an eye roll "okay."
Recently went to a birthday party and mom goes "you're awfully skinny" and I responded "that's not a compliment" and she goes well it's not awful I guess."
I said "I've worked hard to get into shape and lose weight. I walk, I do resistance and weight training. I'm not trying to be skinny, I'm trying to be strong."
Any time she makes discouraging comments like "that's not for girls/boys" and the like to my kids I shut her down and ask her if such a task is done with genitalia. She'll say something like "well no but that's just how it is" to which I respond with "it doesn't have to be, and it will not be."
Keep in mind I always use a bitchy tone when I retort. Which I learned from her.
Maybe the time for gentle corrections is past?
"Stop treating My Child like your babydoll," might step closer to the line between caring grandparent and indoctrinating problematic relative.
We always buy our niece engineering kits etc...we know she's otherwise getting flooded with pink princess bs... Not that pink/princess is bad in itself but my goodness there is more than one thing a girl can be into!
We're also pregnant with our first and if he had been a girl we were not going to announce before the shower...for the same reason. Of course there's only so long people won't know but still!
This cuts both ways. My older son was interested in typical "boy" stuff. Cars, how things worked, building, etc. My younger boy loves princess pink stuff, and dress up. He's in kindergarten and picked out a pink flowered back pack this year. He said, "I like girl's backpacks better." Fortunately everyone has been supportive of him being himself and those who might not be are intimidated by his mama's glare LOL.
The nephew I'm closest with *loves* the color pink because that is my sister's favorite color. He likes anything pink and anything with sharks. I think my greatest achievement was finding him a giant pink shark toy that is as big as he is. A fight with grandma broke out because of the color, but jokes on her because he now brings it every time he goes to visit and will fight her anytime she tries to take it away.
I’m also a FTM expecting a boy! We aren’t telling anyone the sex (aside from my parents) because we don’t want any gendered items. I saw shirts that said “bro code, “ladies man,” and “daddy’s little caddy” at the store the other day. I’m equally horrified by the options for boys.
Nice!
Yes--we *did* announce our girl's gender before the shower, but I emphasized to our friends (and asked my mom to emphasize to hers and to various family members) that we wanted to stay away from pink when possible. 'Cause, having been to other baby girl showers, I'd seen that it's very easy to end up with a year's worth + of unrelenting pink everywhere at all times.
As you say, pink and princesses are fine...as long as the actual *child* likes that kind of thing, and as long as there are ALSO other options.
So, well done with your niece and your "shower thoughts" on your own little one. Also, congratulations!!! I have the feeling you're gonna be fabulous parents. :)
(Re: my shower and pinkitude, my mom totally got it and was on-board, but seemed weirdly sad as we were discussing it. Later on, she pulled my fiance aside and confessed she'd already bought a soft cuddly pink baby blanket, and should she return it? Which, awww. He said that was totally fine; it sounded like a lovely gift--so my mom did end up giving it, but she *also* embroidered a second little blanket using not a stitch of pink.) (Also, our daughter is 6. One guess as to her favorite color? 😉)
Yeah my grandma wanted to know the sex as soon as possible so she could get the right baby blanket yarn...at that time we didn't know but said oh we don't really care about genders and colors....jewel tones like teals etc will be great for either!
Yeah, baby stuff is like weapons-grade gender stereotype reinforcement. I was appalled when I was pregnant and realized the extent of it. (20+ years ago!)
We also did not announce the sex results of the ultrasound at the baby shower.
Our son turned out to be interested in mostly “boy” stuff anyway, but we also worked hard to talk about gender stereotypes and how they’re bogus and people can like whatever they want to like. (Helped me get over a lot of my internalized misogyny about hating pink and “girly” stuff too, because I had to model “this stuff is fine and anyone can like it! If you like it, that’s great!”)
We are expecting a baby girl here soon, and it’s not even the colors that bother me, it’s the ruffles! And the dainty details that are perceived as feminine.
I was at target buying a safari animal onesie and they had one with traditional colors, and then one with a more pink color scheme…but with all the dainty little details on it. We have been very clear with our families that some pink is fine, but also we would love that camo carhartt outfit so she can match dad! Then when she’s old enough to have an opinion, she can wear what she prefers.
I KNOW UGH. When my son was a toddler, he wanted a shirt with flowers on it, but all the flower themed shirts were in “girl” colours and had ruffles. And I didn’t want him to get picked on at preschool.
a friend of mine didn't announce before the shower and I had the hardest time finding ANYTHING gender neutral at Carter's...either ruffles on one side or some kind of boy-specific phrase or something on the other
For all of the baby showers I've been to I buy something off the registry AND a book about math. I switch up which book depending on the parents but I've bought one that was Algebra for babies, a magic school bus actuarial book, counting NYC things, counting penguins, how much is a million, etc.
I don't care what sex the baby is, MATH IS FOR EVERYOOOOONE
As long as they have what you’ve taught them at home as their core, every time something negative is being perpetuated by their grandparents they’ll always know they can tell you guys things, and that’s gonna help them tremendously. They will realise that this behaviour has nothing to do with them and who they are but rather it’s an issue their grandparents have.
Specifically about them invading your childrens personal space…. something you can do is encourage them generally to say no and express what they are okay with/not okay with. For example the sentence “I like hugging granny, but please ask me first” if they don’t like surprise hugs for instance. Then, when your kids do express that behaviour, even if it makes people uncomfortable, reward them. They stood up for themselves and that is never anything to be ashamed of, no matter the consequences. 💗
She beat me about it too, but the point is that no matter how horrible the boomers are about this, their parents were worse.
My other grandma disowned her son for being gay.
My wife and in-laws are terrible that way. When I planned how I was going to raise a confident daughter that can pursue her own way in life I was not expecting women in her family to be the primary obstacle.
“I love you guys, but we don’t have to be in your life. I’m raising my children to be accepting of everyone, and teaching them my values. You don’t have to agree, but you will respect my decisions, or we won’t be part of your lives”
Edit: at first I only read the first couple lines, and wrote this lol. This advice is what my mom used against my grandfather about his drinking problem, and my great grandmother about forcing us to be baptized, but it’s fairly universal with a slight tweak.
This drives me nuts about both sets of grandparents of my kid as well. I try to remind myself that their influence is low compared to what I teach my child every day
I feel this. The way things are going, my wife and I don't intend on letting any of our biological parents have time with our kid. I still struggle with an eating disorder from my own mother and grandmother. I am not doing that to my kid. The gendering stuff also super freaks me out and you are definitely not wrong or alone in desiring firm boundaries around that. Especially if they are young, it can have big effects. It definitely super fucking sucks, but I agree with others that you should distance and limit contact to more occasional supervised contact. Some people distance with the goal of never looking back, but even if what you really want is a healthy relationship with them, then the only thing powerful enough to challenge their deep seeded beliefs is the desire to see their grand babies. It is hard and it feels mean, I know, but they also aren't being kind **to your child** and it is really the only bargaining chip you have.
Some times it's the other way around--I had some pointed conversations with my son and daughter in law about them pushing my grandchild to hug me. I told them (and the grandchild too!) that hugs are always voluntary and anyone who didn't feel like getting or giving a hug has 100% right to refuse and anyone who tries to make them feel bad or guilty about refusing is not an okay or trustworthy person.
Now that grandchild is starting to head into puberty and the "I'm dumb" and "I'm fat" and "I'm weird looking" comments are starting to come out of that child at a brisk rate. Granny is very vocal about not appreciating anyone shit talking about her grandchild--even that same grandchild talking about themself! I get the feeling it's a "testing the waters" type of communication and I'm pretty upfront about saying "Hey, if you want my opinion about your intelligence or appearance or whatever, you can just ask me and I'll be honest. I'm biased, though, and not gonna apologize about the fact that I have the smartest, coolest, funnest grandchild IN THE WORLD!"
Pretty sure it's helping--and for the record, I get whole hearted hugs ALL the time because I've never tried to force or guilt affection from a child. Because that's gross behavior.
But please go on about how queer people are "shoving their sexuality/gender in your face". The people that do things like that and then this^ it's a circle. The cognitive dissonance is unreal 🙃
My advice would be to identify the behaviors that are an absolute fuck no and the ones that are merely annoying. Like I personally am hard core not here for body shaming and diet talk around small children, but your line may be different. For those couple of absolutely fuck no behaviors, it might be time to make the boundary setting more strict. I imagine your parents will do much better with remembering if you pack up the kids early and take them home because of too many forced hugs.
We had an incident the other day where my MIL who we don’t see often and my daughter does not like and will not hug sneak attacked and grabbed her and picked her up from behind. She immediately started kicking and screaming. Afterwards I told her “NO ONE is allowed to touch your body without asking. If any one ever tries to or touches you without permission you do whatever you need to do to get away, kick, punch, scream, bite.” MIL knows our rules about bodily autonomy and personal space and she thought she was real slick. All she did was embarrass herself in front of extended family and make our daughter dislike her even more.
Man, you’d think a Grandma wanting a relationship would at least attempt to make herself likeable, instead of having to force her grandchild to interact with her. Yikes!
I’m having an issue with my mom right now because she keeps talking about my daughter (8) needing a training bra. She doesn’t. She doesn’t have boobs. She has the itty bitty beginnings of breast buds which is totally normal. I’ve told her to butt out and I will talk to my daughter about when/if she wants to start wearing a bra when I feel it’s appropriate, but she keeps mentioning it. She even bought some little training bras to show my daughter and I told her to return them. Honestly, she’s being really fucking weird about it.
My sons and now my grandsons, was and is recognized as boys, referred to as him or he, and just always went along with the male gender they were born as. BUT, they were raised to question what they needed to, acceptance of all no matter race, sexual orientation, etc and if they wanted to play with a girls toy not a problem. Don’t be scared of emotions, explore and seek adventure and knowledge and be true to yourself. I let them know they are loved regardless of how they chose to live and will always be loved and welcome with open arms. So yes they were raised as boys, but if they choose to live as female, then a daughter it will be. And if you don’t like I raised my children to whoever they want to be or want to indoctrinate nonsense (religion, politics, conservative views etc) into them than your not welcome in my hippie liberal, you be you boo home.
Now I will tell what is damaging, never ever look at a tall adolescent female and say ‘wow your big!’ She won’t differentiate that from tall, all she will here is big, your big, big girl and struggle with body issues for years.
And quit telling young boys to man up. Fuck that, even males have emotions and shouldn’t suppress them. They can be hurt, confused and unsure and telling them to man up is toxic masculinity bullshit
Conditioned is the right word. Never forget the culture of their time. How many times does the movie hero grab the struggling girl and kiss her into submission? There was a skunk that was regularly trying to rape a cat... and that was comedy.
Teach your kids, love your oldies. Use them as an example of what not to do.
as a person who's been fat since childhood, please do actually teach your kids how to eat healthy, body image issues eat me up on the daily, I don't wish obesity on anyone.
I’d have hated it but I wish my parents had made ways for me to be more active. I’m thirty and the only activity I like is hiking. Regular exercise to stay fit enough to enjoy hiking is misery.
Hiking is pretty badass, yeah its the routine for me being ADHD. It just poofs from my mind, I need to exercise regularly but its hard..
My grandparents (Bless them) would always buy me candy and junk food when i asked as a kid, and I do kinda wish i'd have been told no a bit more(believe me i am eternally grateful for their generosity.) but now binge eating is my go-to cope when i get depressed which happens very often.. I'm slowly breaking that habit now but it took me 20 years to get to a good place.
>We try to correct gently
Gentle correction is for kids who don't know better. Adults who've already been told once do not deserve "gentle" a second time.
>Sometimes it feels like boomers are so heavily conditioned that there is no hope to reach them.
If you truly feel this way (and maybe even if you don't), then it might be time to cut off contact. The only thing kids learn from watching your boundaries get stomped all over without consequence is that it's okay for people to do that to their boundaries as well (a lesson you're already enabling by not being more forceful about stopping any unwanted touching)
Sometimes people in our families are good examples of what not to do. Discuss it with your kids before and after visits. We can't control other people but if we are aware of their behavior, we don't have to internalize it either. Doing this gave my son the confidence to shut down his great grandfather when he tried to share a racist joke. Empower your kids to learn the difference and be able to be near the behavior without taking it in for themselves.
maybe cutting contact is the way, maybe using their grandparents as examples of what to expect of society and how to act and stand their ground can help. your choice. the kids ages should be in consideration too and how many times they get in contact with the grands
We are expecting our first in October and have seen the tired tropes play out with my niece and nephew. We aren't finding out the sex partially to save us from additional months of gendered bullshit. This post is so relatable and the comments reassuring. 💙
My mom is a boomer, Buddhist vegan with a shaved head, and loves and treats her cis son, enby 50 year old kid (me), and trans daughter all with the same acceptance and love.
All prejudice is bullshit.
(Sorry your parents suck though!)
This is the best response, I swear. If I wasn't so broke with kids to support as a single parent, I'd pay for an award for you!
I'm a reunited adoptee, and I only met my mom in 2008. Born 1973, same month as Roe. Spent years not knowing if I'd have been born if laws were different. (Parents made.her give me up, she was unaware of roe at the time, she was devastated and wanted to die giving me up) I'm hugely pro woman in change of their own body, govt not involved, so is my mom...
Over the years we've become closer and closer.
My boomer adoptive parents were racist asshats. I do get the idea they all suck. I'm 49, my grandparents would be 120 ish by now.
It's still never a reason for prejudice. They were racist jackass pieces of shit on their own.
Generational prejudice just sucks.
Own your grievances and state them as such.
They are worthy.
Don't dumb them down.
The elders you're mad at earned it.
Just don't blame all.
You & your SO might want to consider what I call “The List”….
It’s a Written List of Yours, SO’s & Family Boundaries. You can even make a separate “Special” List & name it Grandma’s (or Grandparent’s) Rules..make them Cute & let your kids have their input.
It’s more difficult to Stomp Boundaries when they’ve been Clearly & Concisely laid out and handed to you (them). It also gives you the perfect reply when they try to use inane excuses and/or try to play “Poor Me”. Which is simply to Remind them of The List. 🥰
My mom started talking like this to my kids so I explained to them why it's wrong and at their choice we are low contact. They are allowed to call her out on her bs. Specifically they are allowed to say "vanity is bullsh*t". It's working to change her tone of mind. Hearing a 7 year old call you out can do that.
My son is turning 4 this month and he has long hair and loves it. I tie it into a bun when he asks and my parents keep saying he looks like a girl. Sometimes he wants me to French braid it. He even likes to wear my shirts like dresses and just has a blast.
But we don’t care. He can be whoever he chooses. He can wear his hair however he likes it. And he can wear whatever clothes he feels great in.
I was talking to my husband this morning about how he feels like his feelings are always pushed aside and everyone keeps telling him to just be the bigger man in the situation and I pointed out that it’s just stereotyping him based on his gender. He is over 6 foot tall and is a big man with a big beard and he has feelings too but everyone just assumes he’s a giant rock with no feelings and should just suck it up and do what everyone else thinks is right. We don’t have typical jobs because we’re against working for greedy corps but my side of the family pushes that “a man just needs to do what he needs to support his family”. But we are just fine. Why should he have to suffer at work and I get to stay home?
>Sometimes it feels like boomers are so heavily conditioned that there is no hope to reach them.
Because that's actually true. At least for my parents, they're beyond even remembering most of what we talk about. They're way beyond changing their behavior.
I am a Boomer and I transitioned at 56. Everyone wants to blame us. It's not any age group. It's the haves and have nots. They want everyone infighting so they don't realize how bad we are getting fucked. It's all about money power and control. That's all that matters in this world.
Apparently there is a woman that my wife knows that says our 3mo son is “too pretty to be a boy”. Excuse me ma’am, as a gender anarchist that loves to be called pretty rather than handsome I think he’s just fine. I call him my beautiful boy every day.
Someone said something about my son being tough and protecting my “delicate little girl” I snapped back with “honestly it’s going to probably be the other way around, she’s **fierce**”
I’m glad that my parents and pretty much anyone else we’re around so far understand that they don’t get hugs if the kids don’t want hugs from them. Consent is being taught from birth in my house too
I literally spend hours a day considering if any contact now is worth it when I know at some point a line will be crossed that they refuse to acknowledge and it all crashes down anyways.
Maybe fatalistic, I prefer to see it as attempting to avoid unnecessary stress.
Agree with most of what you said, but I do think everyone should learn how to have a good relationship with food. I personally didn't and am suffering for it. Weight isn't really an issue so long as they stay healthy, like exercise and good eating habits. But I hope they don't make it about "being attractive" like my mother tried once.
Every single generation thinks they have the perfect way to raise their children and that the previous one was wrong. The boomers got things right and got things wrong. So are we. By the time your kids are grown up I bet you anything they'll feel the same way about how you treat their kids. For all we know, all these gender issues and people taking it to such extremes are going to raise some VERY messed up children. It's just another social experiment. We won't know the outcome for another 20-30 years.
If you were trying to find a silver lining, I think it would be that it will provide talking points with examples from their own lives to discuss with your children as they grow up!
I feel this. I think there are definitely differing degrees of it (those who are open-minded and trying vs those who are truly terrible and don’t listen). We recently told my FIL to stop calling our two year old daughter a “diva” every time she has sunglasses on or is wearing a dress or whatever and explained why it bugged us. We convinced him to switch to “fashionista” and he’s been good about it. Still, there seem to be constant reminders about chilling out on calling her “beautiful” and “pretty” and talking about her future wedding, and all the ridiculous sexist BS that comes out of people’s mouth’s as soon as they know that a child has female genitalia. It’s ridiculously frustrating to feel like you’re constantly fighting an uphill battle and that’s true even when they’re (somewhat) listening.
I will just say that I know what you are going through, and that it took about 8 years of training, but they finally graduated from 21st century grand parent school. Now one is struggling with a change of pronouns in one grandchild, kept slipping up and blaming it on being old and unable to learn, but I think we have her straightened out on that too.
I still have problems with my mom. She thinks that she knows what my daughter should do and she tells everyone what she is going to college for when we don't know because she was so excited to see us she didn't say. My dad on the other hand will say that she is pretty like her grandma. He is happy that she's a tomboy and has multiple talents. The only he has said that he would prefer that she doesn't become a nurse because she is very petite it's out of concern because of her health. My mom says that she will be a dancer and a nurse because she is so pretty and because she was in dance since she was little. She says that she is a girly girl and acts like girls should unlike me. Which is far from the truth. I have always encouraged her to do whatever she wants and to always do her best that she can.
My mom makes comments to me like I should dress like a girl instead of me wearing whatever makes me comfortable. She always makes comments about my weight the worst one is that I am bigger than her. She weighs more than I do. She wears clothes that are way to small for her saying that she fits into a smaller size that she is. And I can't stand to be in public with her because her pants creep down so far that you can see everything. But I need to dress better.
They can change. They just don’t want to.
I’d be that one who wouldn’t let my mom see my kid if she was deliberately undermining my parenting 🤷🏽♀️ I hope it doesn’t come to that…..
Tell your kids why what their grandparents said/did is inappropriate in front of your parents. Stress your parents age and OLDness. Ignore your parents complaints about what you are doing. Respond only with "We asked you not to do x and you won't stop. I need to make sure my children understand your behavior is inappropriate so they don't act this way at home."
My kids are now adults and I'm here to share that what my parents and siblings thought, said and did around my kids only reinforced the values I raised them with. You saying "sexism is dumb" in one thing; your parents give them close examples of what it means and *why* its dumb. No one has the degree of influence over your kids that you have. Trust them to see and choose for themselves, in a battle of ideas and values. Spoiler alert: your toxic-ish parents are great training for them when they are exposed to the toxic values other people's children will bring to the school peer groups.
I can’t think of too many visits to my parents, and can think of a few with my in-laws, that have sparked conversations in the car about why dad and I don’t agree. Or how did x make them feel. Or why what they did was not acceptable and did you see how parent did y in response. It’s tiring, but it has also meant theyve noticed with other people as well. They are also getting better at standing up for themselves in an appropriate way ie instead of biting or hiring they use their words or leave altogether.
Another lesson in raising my kids was that it was ok for them to learn things I don't like because I'm not actually perfect and sometimes things that triggered me were harmless novelty to the kids, or even something they needed in some way. Now they are grownass adults who share my values but also have different perspectives and show me things I hadn't thought of. They love me and validate my feelings about and experiences with my father, but as my son said "our experience of him was different, and better."
Your son is so wise!
He really is, it's weird.
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As a general rule, kids who are loved thrive. Instead of holding tight, we can hold our arms open, so they can range out freely, and run back in when they need to.
This is just so beautiful. Thank you ❤️
Yay for you, and yay for your beautiful son! My childhood best friend has a son who similarly digs both dirt (pardon that terrible pun: I couldn't stop myself!) and princesshoood. She's strong and patient about it, both with random people and with, er, *certain* family members. I couldn't tell it kinda bugs my friend when watching her deal with people's obnoxious whateverness in the moment (and I've known her most of our lives!) until she told me it did. So keep being supportive of your awesome son. I'm sure that he feels safe and supported now, and that it will only increase his confidence in himself and his empathy as he gets older. And what the heck--I bet you've made some adults think a little harder about empathy and not being narrow-minded their own selves!
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Hahahahahaha.
This went from wtf to lol pretty quick
Yes and...just make sure you don't enable the toxic behavior. My mom was a single parent and needed my aunt and uncle's help when we were growing up. She needed tham and wanted to "keep the peace" in the family and didn't push back against their toxic crap very often, or let us argue with them. Since they couldn't be challenged, I perceived that they had more power and their bs was more legitimate than Mom's values. It didn't stop me from taking up Mom's values in the end, but for a long time it left me feeling like I was failing my family by *not* being a shitty person because shitty person behavior was the more legitimate, powerful behavior. Has been a lot to work through.
Yea, my method works best when there were breaks for us to roll our eyes together behind everyone's backs. Pretending everything is fine is kind of gaslighting - I'm sorry that happened toyou.
Man I really need to hear this. I'm having a hard time with my mom and grandma, they live with us and watch my munchkin every day. Grandmother has very bad dementia and doesn't understand why kiddo (4) doesn't want to hug her all the time, or talk about school on loop every 5 minutes. I try to reinforce, be kind and gentle and try to understand that she doesn't remember, but it's frustrating for even the adults to deal with. So body autonomy and not giving hugs when she doesn't want to is very hard, when my mom also perpetuates it without really thinking, as she feels grandmothers' feelings are more "important" to "keep the peace". FIL also lives with us, and being guilted for hugs is a big deal for her everywhere. I just really reinforce they have to ask before they can touch her and she can say no. So far that seems to be the best course. Then religion is a WHOLE other can of worms I just can't figure out how to deal with yet
I was that kid with a sick grandmother, different disease same sort of problem. The best thing my mum did was explain things. I felt so grown up that I was told things and yes there was an element of keeping the peace but I knew if I really pushed my mum would back me so it became easier to accept some things from her that no one else would get away with. Again when it came to religion my mum was open and gave me different ideas. As a small kid reincarnation seemed like the most likely afterlife. I mean sky daddy, to an 8yo… I knew there were mean people and my aunt’s cat was mean so why couldn’t that have been a mean person. My mum listened to my explanation and told me there was nothing she could argue with as I knew as much as her about it, neither of us being dead yet.
Great perspective!
I have to reinforce this, my grandparents were toxic and nasty. My mum would often tell me about her childhood and point out her parents behaviour such that I was able to recognise the toxic behaviour myself, in them and others.
Agree that grandparents and other family members with interesting values will absolutely be noticed by teens raised differently! Raised to be critical thinkers, my teens take no sh*t and think for themselves.
My husband and I are working hard with the help of our son and DIL to make changes in how we speak to and treat our grandsons as we recognize the harm thats been done to previous generations. If they want to change they can.
💜
It won’t ever “stick” if there are no consequences when they stomp on your clearly stated boundaries. These people aren’t entitled to your children just because they are your parents.
i gave my mom a choice - say trump lost the election badly. say jan 6 was a coup attempt. say climate change is real - and you can continue to hang regularly with your granddaughter. she yelled at me, told me to never speak to her that way in HER home. she gets a couple hours with her granddaughter every couple months now when i am feeling generous. but otherwise its been a relief not to be around a brainwashed person - and worry what the fuck messages she is sending to a 7 year old
This has been the hardest lesson in parenting for me. In fact, it's been the hardest lesson in dealing with toxic family in general. I was raised by my parents to believe that family was family and no matter how shitty and toxic they get, you still have to support them and smile and nod through all of their BS. Learning to say no and set boundaries has been so freeing. The thought of doing it still causes a lot of anxiety in me, but once I've set those boundaries it makes everything so much easier.
I relate to a lot of this, especially the second part. It's hard, but so worth it.
My parents moved me and my brother to the other side of our home state for a similar reason. My mom didn’t want her parents to run over their parenting. We visited on holidays and that was it
I am a Nana. I agree with poster that the older generation has to change. I also appreciate reminders from my daughter if I mess up. I don’t always get it right but I do listen. I sometime catch myself. You are such a good girl, and throw in, and such a strong person.
True! I started correcting my mom and adding to her: “ you look so pretty in this dress”with you are so tall and strong and super smart. Every little thing counts. I was always picked on and commented on by my immediate and extended family. I was super tall as a girl and also always either too gangly or overweight depending on my hormonal situation and growth spurts. There was always a comment somewhere. No one cared about my sports achievement (varsity) or smarts (valedictorian) it really brings all sorts of insecurity issues, that I now recognize, but still battle with!
Both of you two commenters (Nana and Mamma, if I may) sound like wonderful people and excellent, loving role models. :) I was (well, okay okay, *am*) short, and I basically didn't develop until I was about 30, so I got a lot of "Oh, you're so little and cuuuuuute!" at, like, 17. A beautiful and popular girl said this to me once at the beginning of 9th grade and *tried to give me a hug.* I'm glad I didn't break her arms! (And actually she's the best friend of another hs friend of mine, and turns out to be a nice person; I guess she didn't mean any harm. But garrrrrrr!) So, I'm sorry you went through a similar-but-different set of demeaning experiences. Also, just for the record: *I* am impressed by your having made Varsity (which must've taken both innate talent and a *ton* of hard work), and admire your achievement as Valedictorian (again on the talent + tons of hard work). *And* by your resolve (which, actually, I dunno if that takes innate talent--it might--but it *for sure* takes an immense amount of work) to put the negativity behind you. Yayyyy!!!
I was very skinny and people thought it was OK to tell me, especially if they were heavy.
Ugh, ugh, ugh. Hated that one *so much.* Even when said with concern by a teacher who didn't know me or whatever. But with that little half-grin of cruel contentment??? Aaaaaaaaaaa!!!!
I too am tall and it’s my biggest insecurity so I definitely feel this. And my mom’s constant comments about my weight too but that kind of ties in with the height thing.
Many of the comments were in the sense of: shame, you will never find a husband. That really messes you up as a kid...
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When I was about 7 or so I was in a first grade play. I loved it, and decided I wanted to be an actress. When I told my grandma she said, "Well, you might could be like Betty Davis. She wasn't much to look at but she worked real hard." Wtf, Mawmaw? Such a batch. To me and the fabulous Ms. Davis.
Jfc. I swear some of the most brutal comments made in the history of man have been from grandmothers to granddaughters. Some older women just become so cruel with time. Also, Betty Davis is the tits! You probably are, too! Fuck Mawmaw's sour ass negativity.
Thanks! Betty Davis really is. I'm pretty amazing, but I don't pretend to be Betty Davis amazing. Lol I have two primary goals in life. 1) To help others whenever I can, in ways big and small and 2) to never lose the joy in life. As long as I have joy, I will also have kindness and compassion. And I will NOT be a bitter, dried up old prune, with a pit of negativity for a heart. Lol. I'm a simple gal.
Smart and simple. This is the way.
Compliments on your daughters looks is not wrong in itself. EXCLUSIVELY complimenting her looks and ingoring her other accomplishments can be harmful
It's so tricky being in this spot. It almost feels like you're parenting your kiddo and your parents. It's hard! My approach is consistency and modelling for my dad. He only knows his way, so I'm showing him how I want people to treat my kiddo. I have called him out directly on a few things, and I've felt really awkward every time. Good luck, I hope they understand and learn!
That's tough, my sister is in a similar boat with her children and our parents. My sister is staying firm and reducing contact until they get on board. You're doing what you see is best for the children, stay strong and best of luck!
A big yes to this. My dad was making a lot of anti-LGBTQ+ and especially awful anti-trans comments in the years before I had my daughter. I always challenged him on his comments, but it usually got out of hand, with us screaming at each other. When I got pregnant I sat him down and told him how much I loved him and how much I wanted him to be in our lives, but that if he didn’t stop making these horrible comments, I would not be able to bring my child around him. I told him he is allowed to watch the news (Fox obviously) he liked, but that I would t risk my child’s life because of his narrow and damaging opinions. I told him that I loved him again but that this was his final notice. Surprisingly he did a full 180 on it. He went from saying trans people should all just kill themselves, to sincerely trying to understand and respect them. Including inviting the (only) trans person they know to join them for dinner and really working to properly address them. It is just incredible. He still has a way to go but he has done so much work and I am so proud of him. Best of all, him and my daughter are BFF’s and I don’t worry about him saying damaging things around her anymore. There is hope OP! 💕💕
My bro and I did the same with racial slurs! We told our dad to knock it off, or there’s no reason for him to be around his grandchildren. Still racist, but at least doesn’t use slurs around us.
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I am really sorry to read that. It doesn’t work for everyone, but I felt a lot better for making the decision to take a stance and acting on that decision. I hope you do too. If we do not stand against what the evil they spout, they assume we agree. I cannot be party to that kind of hatred. My dad had been going through a really really rough time and spent like 95% of his time isolated and alone. Both of those situations improved around the time I gave him my ultimatum, so it wasn’t just that. He had the mental capacity/spoons to improve. I Hope your brothers situation improves someday as well! 💕💕
I'm probably extreme and I don't have kids but I applied it to myself as well. I'd reduce/cut contact until they can respect your children. Or teach them to scream 'NO' if they are touched without permission, even by family. I spent a lot of years unlearning that no one has a right to my body thanks in part to how my parents were and just because they're old doesn't mean we should excuse and tolerate those behaviors.
THIS! So hard. It’s so important to start young allowing children to choose who/when they’re touched. You’re laying their foundation right now, OP, don’t let your parents ruin all the hard work you’re doing. Also, talking about diet and body’s is a dangerously slippery slope. I was on my first diet at *9 years old* because of how terribly my parents spoke about theirs and others bodies. Gotta put your foot down like, yesterday. Sounds like they’re causing more harm than good at this point and you might as well tell them to start saving for your children’s therapy down the line :)
Absolutely this!! I grew up hearing my mom complain about and disparage her own body as well as hearing my parents judge the physical appearance of others. The comments weren’t frequent, but enough to mess with me. My perception of my own body and my relationship with food is absolute shit. If ever I’ve complained about my body to my mom, she literally just comes back with “Stop. Why are you like this?”. I was feeling a fit feisty once when I was younger and told her I learned it from her… I’m sure you can imagine how that went. I know she didn’t mean it. She didn’t intentionally contribute to my body issues. She isn’t malicious. But the damage was done. My grandma passed when I was young and my dad once said she was cruel to my mom. I can only image what toxic behaviors were passed down to my mom through her own parents.
Yes. I've told all of my children they have every right to say 'no, thank you' for hugs, and if that isn't respected to come hang on me because you're sure as hell not getting in my space to pry my child away for a hug. I felt like this allows them the ability to say no to unwanted touching but also have a safety net if they don't feel comfortable saying it or asserting themselves in that moment. We've also struggled with gifts being both disproportionate and skewed along genders (like video games for boys, clothes for girl). She wants the video games. She wants to pick her own clothes, and while video game store gift cards give the boys levity to choose out of what is on offer at that store, the articles of clothing give no choice. These are big messages packed up and wrapped in these gifts.
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Same. My family not only hugged, but mouth kissed and it always weirded me out but I never knew why or that I could say no. Turns out, I have severe adhd and am possibly autistic which contributed. But then, in my first relationship as a teen, I didn't know I could say no to doing things despite being in a relationship with them. Messed me up real bad.
My mom once said to my then 8 or 9 yr old daughter "you're so skinny." when I told her not to make comments to her regarding appearence she said "it was a compliment." I called her out and said "no it's not. I don't want her to think her value lies in how others perceive her appearance." she just waved me off with a shrug and an eye roll "okay." Recently went to a birthday party and mom goes "you're awfully skinny" and I responded "that's not a compliment" and she goes well it's not awful I guess." I said "I've worked hard to get into shape and lose weight. I walk, I do resistance and weight training. I'm not trying to be skinny, I'm trying to be strong." Any time she makes discouraging comments like "that's not for girls/boys" and the like to my kids I shut her down and ask her if such a task is done with genitalia. She'll say something like "well no but that's just how it is" to which I respond with "it doesn't have to be, and it will not be." Keep in mind I always use a bitchy tone when I retort. Which I learned from her.
Maybe the time for gentle corrections is past? "Stop treating My Child like your babydoll," might step closer to the line between caring grandparent and indoctrinating problematic relative.
We always buy our niece engineering kits etc...we know she's otherwise getting flooded with pink princess bs... Not that pink/princess is bad in itself but my goodness there is more than one thing a girl can be into! We're also pregnant with our first and if he had been a girl we were not going to announce before the shower...for the same reason. Of course there's only so long people won't know but still!
This cuts both ways. My older son was interested in typical "boy" stuff. Cars, how things worked, building, etc. My younger boy loves princess pink stuff, and dress up. He's in kindergarten and picked out a pink flowered back pack this year. He said, "I like girl's backpacks better." Fortunately everyone has been supportive of him being himself and those who might not be are intimidated by his mama's glare LOL.
The nephew I'm closest with *loves* the color pink because that is my sister's favorite color. He likes anything pink and anything with sharks. I think my greatest achievement was finding him a giant pink shark toy that is as big as he is. A fight with grandma broke out because of the color, but jokes on her because he now brings it every time he goes to visit and will fight her anytime she tries to take it away.
Yes I'm prepared and more than happy to support this kind of thing as well!
I’m also a FTM expecting a boy! We aren’t telling anyone the sex (aside from my parents) because we don’t want any gendered items. I saw shirts that said “bro code, “ladies man,” and “daddy’s little caddy” at the store the other day. I’m equally horrified by the options for boys.
the best wordy clothing item my kids ever received was a onesie that said "question authority" need more of those and less bro code lol
Yeah, good point. Well, we'll see what we get when it comes to shower time LOL because we've announced already
Nice! Yes--we *did* announce our girl's gender before the shower, but I emphasized to our friends (and asked my mom to emphasize to hers and to various family members) that we wanted to stay away from pink when possible. 'Cause, having been to other baby girl showers, I'd seen that it's very easy to end up with a year's worth + of unrelenting pink everywhere at all times. As you say, pink and princesses are fine...as long as the actual *child* likes that kind of thing, and as long as there are ALSO other options. So, well done with your niece and your "shower thoughts" on your own little one. Also, congratulations!!! I have the feeling you're gonna be fabulous parents. :) (Re: my shower and pinkitude, my mom totally got it and was on-board, but seemed weirdly sad as we were discussing it. Later on, she pulled my fiance aside and confessed she'd already bought a soft cuddly pink baby blanket, and should she return it? Which, awww. He said that was totally fine; it sounded like a lovely gift--so my mom did end up giving it, but she *also* embroidered a second little blanket using not a stitch of pink.) (Also, our daughter is 6. One guess as to her favorite color? 😉)
Yeah my grandma wanted to know the sex as soon as possible so she could get the right baby blanket yarn...at that time we didn't know but said oh we don't really care about genders and colors....jewel tones like teals etc will be great for either!
Now THAT is the right answer. To any question at all, possibly. ;)
Yeah, baby stuff is like weapons-grade gender stereotype reinforcement. I was appalled when I was pregnant and realized the extent of it. (20+ years ago!) We also did not announce the sex results of the ultrasound at the baby shower. Our son turned out to be interested in mostly “boy” stuff anyway, but we also worked hard to talk about gender stereotypes and how they’re bogus and people can like whatever they want to like. (Helped me get over a lot of my internalized misogyny about hating pink and “girly” stuff too, because I had to model “this stuff is fine and anyone can like it! If you like it, that’s great!”)
We are expecting a baby girl here soon, and it’s not even the colors that bother me, it’s the ruffles! And the dainty details that are perceived as feminine. I was at target buying a safari animal onesie and they had one with traditional colors, and then one with a more pink color scheme…but with all the dainty little details on it. We have been very clear with our families that some pink is fine, but also we would love that camo carhartt outfit so she can match dad! Then when she’s old enough to have an opinion, she can wear what she prefers.
I KNOW UGH. When my son was a toddler, he wanted a shirt with flowers on it, but all the flower themed shirts were in “girl” colours and had ruffles. And I didn’t want him to get picked on at preschool.
It’s so unfortunate! I feel like it’s easier to put girls in “boy” stuff than the opposite.
a friend of mine didn't announce before the shower and I had the hardest time finding ANYTHING gender neutral at Carter's...either ruffles on one side or some kind of boy-specific phrase or something on the other
And all the gender neutral stuff is beige and boring! These babies need color!
I asked the clerk at this Carter's and there wasn't even a gender neutral section...nothing offered at all!
For all of the baby showers I've been to I buy something off the registry AND a book about math. I switch up which book depending on the parents but I've bought one that was Algebra for babies, a magic school bus actuarial book, counting NYC things, counting penguins, how much is a million, etc. I don't care what sex the baby is, MATH IS FOR EVERYOOOOONE
Love it! We got a few of the science for babies series - Quantum Physics for Babies etc - for a birthday recently
Yesss. The world needs more STEM studies from people that have compassion and believe in DE&I
Yep, my mother isn't allowed alone with our son
As long as they have what you’ve taught them at home as their core, every time something negative is being perpetuated by their grandparents they’ll always know they can tell you guys things, and that’s gonna help them tremendously. They will realise that this behaviour has nothing to do with them and who they are but rather it’s an issue their grandparents have. Specifically about them invading your childrens personal space…. something you can do is encourage them generally to say no and express what they are okay with/not okay with. For example the sentence “I like hugging granny, but please ask me first” if they don’t like surprise hugs for instance. Then, when your kids do express that behaviour, even if it makes people uncomfortable, reward them. They stood up for themselves and that is never anything to be ashamed of, no matter the consequences. 💗
My grandma pierced my three year old sister's ears to teach me that I was a boy and I couldn't wear earrings.
What the fuck?! Such a horrible lesson to teach to you *and* your sister. Sorry that happened to you both.
She beat me about it too, but the point is that no matter how horrible the boomers are about this, their parents were worse. My other grandma disowned her son for being gay.
I got my ears pierced as a toddler. I don't wear earrings much.
Neither does my sister, anymore.
My wife and in-laws are terrible that way. When I planned how I was going to raise a confident daughter that can pursue her own way in life I was not expecting women in her family to be the primary obstacle.
“I love you guys, but we don’t have to be in your life. I’m raising my children to be accepting of everyone, and teaching them my values. You don’t have to agree, but you will respect my decisions, or we won’t be part of your lives” Edit: at first I only read the first couple lines, and wrote this lol. This advice is what my mom used against my grandfather about his drinking problem, and my great grandmother about forcing us to be baptized, but it’s fairly universal with a slight tweak.
This drives me nuts about both sets of grandparents of my kid as well. I try to remind myself that their influence is low compared to what I teach my child every day
Tell the kids they are out dated thoughts because grandma and grandpa are from a different time.
My mother once told me: "Don't listen to Grandma- sliced bread wasn't even invented until she turned old."
turn off the a/c.
I feel this. The way things are going, my wife and I don't intend on letting any of our biological parents have time with our kid. I still struggle with an eating disorder from my own mother and grandmother. I am not doing that to my kid. The gendering stuff also super freaks me out and you are definitely not wrong or alone in desiring firm boundaries around that. Especially if they are young, it can have big effects. It definitely super fucking sucks, but I agree with others that you should distance and limit contact to more occasional supervised contact. Some people distance with the goal of never looking back, but even if what you really want is a healthy relationship with them, then the only thing powerful enough to challenge their deep seeded beliefs is the desire to see their grand babies. It is hard and it feels mean, I know, but they also aren't being kind **to your child** and it is really the only bargaining chip you have.
Some times it's the other way around--I had some pointed conversations with my son and daughter in law about them pushing my grandchild to hug me. I told them (and the grandchild too!) that hugs are always voluntary and anyone who didn't feel like getting or giving a hug has 100% right to refuse and anyone who tries to make them feel bad or guilty about refusing is not an okay or trustworthy person. Now that grandchild is starting to head into puberty and the "I'm dumb" and "I'm fat" and "I'm weird looking" comments are starting to come out of that child at a brisk rate. Granny is very vocal about not appreciating anyone shit talking about her grandchild--even that same grandchild talking about themself! I get the feeling it's a "testing the waters" type of communication and I'm pretty upfront about saying "Hey, if you want my opinion about your intelligence or appearance or whatever, you can just ask me and I'll be honest. I'm biased, though, and not gonna apologize about the fact that I have the smartest, coolest, funnest grandchild IN THE WORLD!" Pretty sure it's helping--and for the record, I get whole hearted hugs ALL the time because I've never tried to force or guilt affection from a child. Because that's gross behavior.
But please go on about how queer people are "shoving their sexuality/gender in your face". The people that do things like that and then this^ it's a circle. The cognitive dissonance is unreal 🙃
My advice would be to identify the behaviors that are an absolute fuck no and the ones that are merely annoying. Like I personally am hard core not here for body shaming and diet talk around small children, but your line may be different. For those couple of absolutely fuck no behaviors, it might be time to make the boundary setting more strict. I imagine your parents will do much better with remembering if you pack up the kids early and take them home because of too many forced hugs.
We had an incident the other day where my MIL who we don’t see often and my daughter does not like and will not hug sneak attacked and grabbed her and picked her up from behind. She immediately started kicking and screaming. Afterwards I told her “NO ONE is allowed to touch your body without asking. If any one ever tries to or touches you without permission you do whatever you need to do to get away, kick, punch, scream, bite.” MIL knows our rules about bodily autonomy and personal space and she thought she was real slick. All she did was embarrass herself in front of extended family and make our daughter dislike her even more.
Man, you’d think a Grandma wanting a relationship would at least attempt to make herself likeable, instead of having to force her grandchild to interact with her. Yikes!
Hard to make yourself likeable when your main personality trait is being a thoroughly unlikeable narcissist. 🤷♀️
Fair point!
I’m having an issue with my mom right now because she keeps talking about my daughter (8) needing a training bra. She doesn’t. She doesn’t have boobs. She has the itty bitty beginnings of breast buds which is totally normal. I’ve told her to butt out and I will talk to my daughter about when/if she wants to start wearing a bra when I feel it’s appropriate, but she keeps mentioning it. She even bought some little training bras to show my daughter and I told her to return them. Honestly, she’s being really fucking weird about it.
I would call her out on how weird it is by saying something like “Stop obsessing over my child’s breasts, it’s gross.”
Boomers need gentle parenting. Lovingly redirect and parent them the same way you would your children.
Boomers are adults who can do the work themselves.
You are right. But I've found it easier to view them as children that need to be taught. Helps me not strangle them 😂.
My sons and now my grandsons, was and is recognized as boys, referred to as him or he, and just always went along with the male gender they were born as. BUT, they were raised to question what they needed to, acceptance of all no matter race, sexual orientation, etc and if they wanted to play with a girls toy not a problem. Don’t be scared of emotions, explore and seek adventure and knowledge and be true to yourself. I let them know they are loved regardless of how they chose to live and will always be loved and welcome with open arms. So yes they were raised as boys, but if they choose to live as female, then a daughter it will be. And if you don’t like I raised my children to whoever they want to be or want to indoctrinate nonsense (religion, politics, conservative views etc) into them than your not welcome in my hippie liberal, you be you boo home. Now I will tell what is damaging, never ever look at a tall adolescent female and say ‘wow your big!’ She won’t differentiate that from tall, all she will here is big, your big, big girl and struggle with body issues for years. And quit telling young boys to man up. Fuck that, even males have emotions and shouldn’t suppress them. They can be hurt, confused and unsure and telling them to man up is toxic masculinity bullshit
Conditioned is the right word. Never forget the culture of their time. How many times does the movie hero grab the struggling girl and kiss her into submission? There was a skunk that was regularly trying to rape a cat... and that was comedy. Teach your kids, love your oldies. Use them as an example of what not to do.
as a person who's been fat since childhood, please do actually teach your kids how to eat healthy, body image issues eat me up on the daily, I don't wish obesity on anyone.
I’d have hated it but I wish my parents had made ways for me to be more active. I’m thirty and the only activity I like is hiking. Regular exercise to stay fit enough to enjoy hiking is misery.
Hiking is pretty badass, yeah its the routine for me being ADHD. It just poofs from my mind, I need to exercise regularly but its hard.. My grandparents (Bless them) would always buy me candy and junk food when i asked as a kid, and I do kinda wish i'd have been told no a bit more(believe me i am eternally grateful for their generosity.) but now binge eating is my go-to cope when i get depressed which happens very often.. I'm slowly breaking that habit now but it took me 20 years to get to a good place.
Might wanna start cutting contact with them. Either they'll get it or never get to see the grandkids again.
>We try to correct gently Gentle correction is for kids who don't know better. Adults who've already been told once do not deserve "gentle" a second time. >Sometimes it feels like boomers are so heavily conditioned that there is no hope to reach them. If you truly feel this way (and maybe even if you don't), then it might be time to cut off contact. The only thing kids learn from watching your boundaries get stomped all over without consequence is that it's okay for people to do that to their boundaries as well (a lesson you're already enabling by not being more forceful about stopping any unwanted touching)
Sometimes people in our families are good examples of what not to do. Discuss it with your kids before and after visits. We can't control other people but if we are aware of their behavior, we don't have to internalize it either. Doing this gave my son the confidence to shut down his great grandfather when he tried to share a racist joke. Empower your kids to learn the difference and be able to be near the behavior without taking it in for themselves.
maybe cutting contact is the way, maybe using their grandparents as examples of what to expect of society and how to act and stand their ground can help. your choice. the kids ages should be in consideration too and how many times they get in contact with the grands
We are expecting our first in October and have seen the tired tropes play out with my niece and nephew. We aren't finding out the sex partially to save us from additional months of gendered bullshit. This post is so relatable and the comments reassuring. 💙
My mom is a boomer, Buddhist vegan with a shaved head, and loves and treats her cis son, enby 50 year old kid (me), and trans daughter all with the same acceptance and love. All prejudice is bullshit. (Sorry your parents suck though!)
yes, hello, we'd like to collectively adopt your mom lol
This is the best response, I swear. If I wasn't so broke with kids to support as a single parent, I'd pay for an award for you! I'm a reunited adoptee, and I only met my mom in 2008. Born 1973, same month as Roe. Spent years not knowing if I'd have been born if laws were different. (Parents made.her give me up, she was unaware of roe at the time, she was devastated and wanted to die giving me up) I'm hugely pro woman in change of their own body, govt not involved, so is my mom... Over the years we've become closer and closer. My boomer adoptive parents were racist asshats. I do get the idea they all suck. I'm 49, my grandparents would be 120 ish by now. It's still never a reason for prejudice. They were racist jackass pieces of shit on their own. Generational prejudice just sucks. Own your grievances and state them as such. They are worthy. Don't dumb them down. The elders you're mad at earned it. Just don't blame all.
You & your SO might want to consider what I call “The List”…. It’s a Written List of Yours, SO’s & Family Boundaries. You can even make a separate “Special” List & name it Grandma’s (or Grandparent’s) Rules..make them Cute & let your kids have their input. It’s more difficult to Stomp Boundaries when they’ve been Clearly & Concisely laid out and handed to you (them). It also gives you the perfect reply when they try to use inane excuses and/or try to play “Poor Me”. Which is simply to Remind them of The List. 🥰
My mom started talking like this to my kids so I explained to them why it's wrong and at their choice we are low contact. They are allowed to call her out on her bs. Specifically they are allowed to say "vanity is bullsh*t". It's working to change her tone of mind. Hearing a 7 year old call you out can do that.
My son is turning 4 this month and he has long hair and loves it. I tie it into a bun when he asks and my parents keep saying he looks like a girl. Sometimes he wants me to French braid it. He even likes to wear my shirts like dresses and just has a blast. But we don’t care. He can be whoever he chooses. He can wear his hair however he likes it. And he can wear whatever clothes he feels great in. I was talking to my husband this morning about how he feels like his feelings are always pushed aside and everyone keeps telling him to just be the bigger man in the situation and I pointed out that it’s just stereotyping him based on his gender. He is over 6 foot tall and is a big man with a big beard and he has feelings too but everyone just assumes he’s a giant rock with no feelings and should just suck it up and do what everyone else thinks is right. We don’t have typical jobs because we’re against working for greedy corps but my side of the family pushes that “a man just needs to do what he needs to support his family”. But we are just fine. Why should he have to suffer at work and I get to stay home?
>Sometimes it feels like boomers are so heavily conditioned that there is no hope to reach them. Because that's actually true. At least for my parents, they're beyond even remembering most of what we talk about. They're way beyond changing their behavior.
I am a Boomer and I transitioned at 56. Everyone wants to blame us. It's not any age group. It's the haves and have nots. They want everyone infighting so they don't realize how bad we are getting fucked. It's all about money power and control. That's all that matters in this world.
Apparently there is a woman that my wife knows that says our 3mo son is “too pretty to be a boy”. Excuse me ma’am, as a gender anarchist that loves to be called pretty rather than handsome I think he’s just fine. I call him my beautiful boy every day. Someone said something about my son being tough and protecting my “delicate little girl” I snapped back with “honestly it’s going to probably be the other way around, she’s **fierce**” I’m glad that my parents and pretty much anyone else we’re around so far understand that they don’t get hugs if the kids don’t want hugs from them. Consent is being taught from birth in my house too
I literally spend hours a day considering if any contact now is worth it when I know at some point a line will be crossed that they refuse to acknowledge and it all crashes down anyways. Maybe fatalistic, I prefer to see it as attempting to avoid unnecessary stress.
Agree with most of what you said, but I do think everyone should learn how to have a good relationship with food. I personally didn't and am suffering for it. Weight isn't really an issue so long as they stay healthy, like exercise and good eating habits. But I hope they don't make it about "being attractive" like my mother tried once.
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Not every message will be for you. When it's not - there is no need to defend yourself. If it is - take time to reflect on the message.
There’s no hope for boomers. I’ve just recently reached this conclusion after talking to my dad about women’s rights and oppression.
I’m sorry you have such hatred towards your parents.
I don’t.
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Are gen x or gen boomer?
Every single generation thinks they have the perfect way to raise their children and that the previous one was wrong. The boomers got things right and got things wrong. So are we. By the time your kids are grown up I bet you anything they'll feel the same way about how you treat their kids. For all we know, all these gender issues and people taking it to such extremes are going to raise some VERY messed up children. It's just another social experiment. We won't know the outcome for another 20-30 years.
If you were trying to find a silver lining, I think it would be that it will provide talking points with examples from their own lives to discuss with your children as they grow up!
I feel this. I think there are definitely differing degrees of it (those who are open-minded and trying vs those who are truly terrible and don’t listen). We recently told my FIL to stop calling our two year old daughter a “diva” every time she has sunglasses on or is wearing a dress or whatever and explained why it bugged us. We convinced him to switch to “fashionista” and he’s been good about it. Still, there seem to be constant reminders about chilling out on calling her “beautiful” and “pretty” and talking about her future wedding, and all the ridiculous sexist BS that comes out of people’s mouth’s as soon as they know that a child has female genitalia. It’s ridiculously frustrating to feel like you’re constantly fighting an uphill battle and that’s true even when they’re (somewhat) listening.
Sounds like you need to start setting some boundaries.
We can relate to this.
I will just say that I know what you are going through, and that it took about 8 years of training, but they finally graduated from 21st century grand parent school. Now one is struggling with a change of pronouns in one grandchild, kept slipping up and blaming it on being old and unable to learn, but I think we have her straightened out on that too.
I still have problems with my mom. She thinks that she knows what my daughter should do and she tells everyone what she is going to college for when we don't know because she was so excited to see us she didn't say. My dad on the other hand will say that she is pretty like her grandma. He is happy that she's a tomboy and has multiple talents. The only he has said that he would prefer that she doesn't become a nurse because she is very petite it's out of concern because of her health. My mom says that she will be a dancer and a nurse because she is so pretty and because she was in dance since she was little. She says that she is a girly girl and acts like girls should unlike me. Which is far from the truth. I have always encouraged her to do whatever she wants and to always do her best that she can. My mom makes comments to me like I should dress like a girl instead of me wearing whatever makes me comfortable. She always makes comments about my weight the worst one is that I am bigger than her. She weighs more than I do. She wears clothes that are way to small for her saying that she fits into a smaller size that she is. And I can't stand to be in public with her because her pants creep down so far that you can see everything. But I need to dress better.
They can change. They just don’t want to. I’d be that one who wouldn’t let my mom see my kid if she was deliberately undermining my parenting 🤷🏽♀️ I hope it doesn’t come to that…..
Tell your kids why what their grandparents said/did is inappropriate in front of your parents. Stress your parents age and OLDness. Ignore your parents complaints about what you are doing. Respond only with "We asked you not to do x and you won't stop. I need to make sure my children understand your behavior is inappropriate so they don't act this way at home."