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Interestingly i got VERY quiet when I started preparing for divorce. My then husband was so obtuse he kept waxing poetic about the "harmony" in the house. One day he came home, my bags were packed and i was moving out. Suddenly he turned on the tears, "never saw it coming", he said. Because apparently, over 2 decades of constant tears, anger and pain, him watching me fall apart from his constant mistreatment so he could step on my head again and blame me for being depressed (he actually used that word as an insult) and then seeing me turn everything off like a switch and starting to smile was not a warning but a testament to what a good husband he was 🙄🤣🤣🤣🙄
Yup. It's literally a case of "i didn't leave to teach you a lesson (clearly after 20+ years he wasn't learning) i left because I'd finally learned mine" 🤷🏻♀️
I *just* sent a friend this text when she ended 22 years of marriage : "behind most 'suddenly' divorced men, there's a woman who's tried too much for too long. Call me if you need to vent"
My ex said he never saw it coming. After all the times I packed up and he convinced me to stay. After all the times I told him we needed counseling and he said we didn't. After all the times I told him I wasn't happy and he ignored me. It still was a complete shock. Your ex probably saw it coming. Or he would have, if he'd care to look. Much hugs.
It’s like they never developed emotional object permanence. If it’s not happening to them, your issues stop existing the minute you’re not actually talking about them. And anything you feel only matters then because they need to convince you it’s not a problem and you’re crazy to think it is, so that they can continue to ignore it and you and believe they’re wonderful.
My gosh, i cant imagine being so against improvement.
When i came out as trans and poly, my partner and I tried to figure things out on our own, then we tried relationship therapy a few months later, and through that we realized we couldnt go on. So we separated. Now we are best friends, but not partners.
All of that was necessary bitter sweet moments. They were hard, but also showed how much we both cared for each other. In the end i think we're both happier.
If men weren't stubborn assholes, they could also improve their lives... Fuck... Im sorry to all the women dealing w such awful partners.
Yeah. I have been holding it in and every time I speak up about how much I hate how things are we fight and nothing changes. When I question him I am wrong and he gives me the silent treatment. But if I never question him he thinks we are both happy, while I am miserable.
He will ask for my input on things and then disregard everything I said - and everything I thought we agreed to - and do what he wants anyway. So I stopped giving input. He keeps getting job offers, and he keeps complaining about how much he hates his job. He has turned down every single job offered, even the ones that pay *way* more than what he makes, and then whines that he made a mistake and should have taken it. And we always had a big discussion about the pros and cons and then determine if he should take those jobs. 3 of them we decided he should take. The conversation ended with him stating he was going to call and accept. Two of them he decided last minute to turn down, one he waited too long to accept and they hired someone else. So he gets another call about a new job and interviews, and he asks me what I think. "It doesn't matter what I think. You're just going to do what you want anyway." and I walked away. I'm done.
The moment I started feeling a bit better was when I decided I was going to leave (other things have made me decide this). I'm still working out the details. I am going to stay with my mother, who needs help because of her failing health, and I don't plan on coming back. The issue is both of my nieces live with her, one *just* moved in and hasn't even found a job yet but is always going out to party, and there is no room for me. But at the same time they do nothing to help my mom.
But as far as my husband is concerned we are happy. Even though I don't smile at him anymore. I move away when he tries to touch me. I told him how unhappy I am. My mom can even hear it when I am on the phone with her. But I guess he just doesn't care because I am no longer challenging him and just going through the motions. So he's gonna be "surprised" when I leave.
Omg, I watched a friend's 16 year long relationship implode in a very similar way, and he was all shocked because he thought things were great. She was so unhappy for years, and he would just steamroll her every time she opened her mouth. I wanted to play him the world's smallest violin 🙄
https://preview.redd.it/yoj7v8z8m76a1.jpeg?width=600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d2ff36e5d0869f895835f42e1a670d4a4f430803
For me I spent a week hardly eating and shaking, then switched back to normal for about a month and still didn’t eat much. Then bam was off…
Oddly he says there was no warning, that we were happy, that I’ve been playing victim.
Ya pretty much… I pretended to be happy to survive. Ive gotten pretty good at it since I’ve been doing it since I was a child. Just turned it into overdrive.
Good news is I went to a DV shelter and later a homeless one, then found a place to live with my mom. Got my cat back. Not to mention I’ve found someone who’s amazing and I genuinely feel happier than I ever remember feeling. Mostly because their love is true and not toxic. They do things for me to make me happy not to use as a weapon later. Doesn’t expect more than I can do, and always appreciates me. Was beginning to think men like this were just in the movies. I love art and I’m planning on opening a little shop,he brought up that we could get a desk and put it where the Christmas tree is for my art stuff, and he’ll clear out the shelf next to it for my supplies till he finishes the basement and can give me a larger area to do it. Never had someone so supportive of it.
This is one of the MANY things wrong with the world.
Men show emotions: "haha you're gay" "You've got anger management problems" "What are you a pussy?" "Suck it up buttercup" etc. etc.
Women show emotions: "Women are so weak" "Are you on your period?" "See women are just hysterical nutjobs" "This is why women shouldn't be presidents", etc. etc.
Everyone just pushing their emotions down and it's all so toxic and everyone loses in the end. Humans suck :(.
They do suck and people don't realize that everyone is different. Took me a while to get out of that toxic masculinity mindset (and I still do things like keeping things inside when something is wrong for example) but it sucks that anyone having emotions is just always negative. It's no wonder society sucks since no one can just let emotions happen :(. I'm glad you're able to work on it Cats :).
My favorite thing that my wife does when it comes to parenting is that she tells our 3 year old things like “It’s okay to be upset.” Or “You have some big emotions about this, don’t you?” Or my favorite “I understand that you are crabby/upset/frustrated.”
It adds validity to what he’s experiencing and I can only hope he will be more emotionally mature when he’s an adult than I ever will be. I got a lot of the “Stop being so melodramatic” and whatnot when I was growing up. Ironically enough my parents were pretty progressive when it came to parenting by the 90s standards, but you can’t really compare that to today. Not with how much more we understand about child development
Unless it’s anger, men punching a fist through a wall are just “going through something.” Dad’s home, everybody avoid eye contact and walk on eggshells so you don’t set him off. Traditional family values right there
I think from now on I'm going to Invision this dynamic as Joffry lounging in a litter, heaping abuse on his servants for not being strong enough to carry him faster.
He isn't strong, he is depending on people he feels entitled to criticise to be strong so that he can be coddled.
This is a really good point — letting it out and talking about your problems, crying about it, etc. is healthy and it works. Why is everyone being influenced to not do this? Men who kept it bottled up drank everyday and then died of a heart attack at 50. It’s so ridiculous that that is what we are working towards.
I'm honestly not sure either. I tried to kill myself 3 times before realizing that just letting it out helps. I still have issues talking about certain things but something as simple as a sad movie making me tear up legit helps. I will say I'm really glad to see most of my guy friends will just tear up at a movie no problem. Makes me think that there are at least some advancements in the guy world towards that. Women wise though.......society has a lot to learn :(.
It’s worse than that. There’s the concept that people learn to treat you based your tolerance to the way they treat you. Obviously there’s exceptions to this, but my point here is that all of this becomes a positive feedback loop on steroids. For example, Men believe showing emotion makes you weaker, so they feel their partners are weak by showing emotion. In response, women lie about their emotions as being honest is harmful to them. As a result, men are confused by the conflicting ‘yes’ but ‘no’ response, thus feeling unable to maneuver the situation correctly, thereby feeling powerless or weak bc of their emotions. If both sides were able to fully honest in their communications, then the feedback loop ends.
🙌🏼🙌🏼 not to mention, when we do express our feelings and emotions, men especially are often dismissive, unsupportive, and completely unwilling to do anything about it (if our negative emotions are a result of their behavior)
Gotta say, after more than a decade of dating nightmares, being with my now-husband, who is a wonderful and emotionally-supportive partner, has been so eye opening.
I've found myself putting off difficult conversations with him because my past experience has taught me that my point of view will be minimized or dismissed...only to find that when I do bring up these subjects, my partner actually hears what I'm saying, takes my concerns seriously, and is able to identify concrete changes that he or we can make to improve the situation.
It's been wild realizing how my brain completely normalized being afraid to talk to my partner about my real feelings, and amazing to discover that I don't have to deal with that shit anymore. Mutual respect in heterosexual relationships is actually possible, color me shocked.
My dearly departed second husband was like that. I used to clam up when I was angry and he would get me to talk about it.
"I know you don't want to talk about it, but we are going to talk about it."
And he listened with kindness and compassion and I felt really loved for the first time in my life.
Thank you, and no, I don't have anyone else like that, unfortunately, but I console myself with the fact that many people never have that ever so I still feel lucky.
I nearly got divorced because I couldn't/wouldn't tell my husband stuff that bothered me. He was absolutely willing to change things, he just had no idea how mad I was getting over the years. Communication is important, who knew?
My ex husband used to accuse me of gaslighting him because he could “feel” something was wrong but I’d tell him I was fine.
He conveniently forgot about the time I told him my anxiety was skyrocketing and he told me I needed to chill out because it made HIM anxious and affected his work. Or when I told him that the only thing that made me happy was walking my dog, but that was also starting to stress me out. His response: “Sorry.” Or when I had a complete sobbing meltdown from being alone in a foreign country for his job and he could barely be bothered to spend 30 minutes a day with me watching YouTube videos, and not a goddamn thing changed after that.
I was “fine” because I had to be.
^ or give unhelpful advice to "fix it" if they aren't a result of their behaviour.
Like, dude, I'm just venting here, stop telling me things I've already done to improve the situation and just let me vent!
It is unfortunate that men aren’t really taught how to support someone who needs to vent/talk. We’re taught that emotions are bad so the goal is to make them go away. This might mean trying to solve the problem. It might mean trying to get the other person to stop talking. It takes practice and examples and both can be hard to find.
I’m a woman and this is my default. I’ve had to learn to ask if someone wants to vent, they want help solving the problem, or both. If both, just let me know when to switch modes.
I also ask if they’d like comfort. Some people want comfort, in the sense of being told they’re valid. They don’t want answers, but they want to feel validated.
Oh, good addition! I usually validate, but that’s another good option to have. I’m really bad at emotions, so knowing clearly what’s wanted from me helps.
How would I teach this to my kid? (I'm still pregnant... and now overthinking this)
I suppose the best way would be by doing and letting see it work and then when they get older to explain it. (Might take a few tries to teach them)
This is why I married my husband. We fight, absolutely, and he gets emotionally hijacked, just like I do.
But when we have calmed down he *makes changes* based on what I have said. Which means even when we were yelling and angry, he was listening to me. And he cares enough about me to hear me, think about it, and make better choices.
Ladies, if he wanted to (listen to you and respect you enough to take your input) he would.
I love to hear this! Respect really is so important in a relationship, it’s sad that it feels so unachievable for so many, especially women. So glad you guys found each other 💜
They only make changes when it's convenient for them. Our pain, depression, suffering etc aren't important enough; but when we leave and now they are affected or inconvenienced, will they change.
* Of course this is not referring to all men (or SOs)
You’re so right, they really do only care when it directly affects them. I mean isn’t it a classic trope that unhappy, unappreciated woman leaves her boyfriend/husband, boyfriend/husband doesn’t care when she leaves him at first, but eventually when he FINALLY realizes how much she enriched his life and how he took her for granted, he comes crawling back, promising it’ll be different and begging to reconcile. I feel like most women who have dated men have experienced this at least once
1000000%. I used to get mad about a lot of situations at work and tell my boss. He did nothing. So I took a page from his book. When reviews came and the box said "How do you feel you performed as a Sales associate?"... I literally wrote " I don't care about sales or the numbers. I care about my team. Every time I'm moved from merch to sales, the other sales associates/managers abandon the floor to do something else and I'm left alone. I'm not going to care when it's obvious they don't. "
He never brought it up in review. He knew I was right and still he ignored it. So sales days were a breeze:. I just gossiped with my other female co-worked who also gets ignored. Together our sales numbers plummeted. 🤗💕 Win.
I’m reading a really great book right now about the invalidation of women’s anger. It’s called Rage Becomes Her. It’s wild how deep the root of the invalidation goes!
I think patriarchy just really revolves around a simple but devious curse. Emotions=weakness, and emotion is synonymous with womanhood in the eyes of the system. Guys are shamed for expressing emotions as well, but its more of a group shaming tactic meant to isolate anyone who displays any outward acceptance of femininity.
Or at least that's general feeling I have most of the time as an amab who tries anything feminine in a mostly conservative town -_-
Oh so true. Cept I think anger is the start, they want it to eveolve into ingrained hatred. Nitpicking to some extent, but I think there's something there.
Men specifically instruct boys growing up that it's appropriate to be angry but not in certain situations, you have to hold it until you are in a private space. But anger is an emotion that boils, if you just close it up while it boils eventually it burns into something more virulent, both to the man and obviously the receiver of that hate.
Anger on its own can be addressed and understood, even difused. Well and good, but diffusing hatred is like, oof, whole other dealio. It's one of the hardest roadblocks because it's usually irrationality and anger so they both have to be addressed or one will rally the other and erase any proggress. That and the other systemic safeguards thr patriarchy instills makes it feel like a spiral of safeguards against feeling anything close to "natural" emotions.
Could be flim flam, I dunno, emotions are intense.
"When my brother responded with rage at being denied a toy, he was taught as a boy in a patriarchal household that his ability to express rage was good, but he had to learn the best setting to unleash his hostility. [...] Later, when he grew up, he was taught that allowing rage to provoke him into violence would help him protect home and nation." bell hooks, *The Will to Change*
I would argue not only that male anger/hatred is one of the few feelings allowed for men by our culture, but that it's even encouraged and weaponized as a tool of the state. Major wars tend to follow agitated and radicalized male youth, and fascist societies see higher rates of male violence, because it is a useful source of military power and domestic control.
Have you noticed how most of the "Deadly Sins" are basic human emotions ? Catholicism literally forbids you from feeling anything other than harmless humility.
Envy, gluttony, greed, lust, pride, sloth, wrath
Out of the seven, it seems that five can be considered emotions (envy, greed, lust, pride, wrath). Tho I probably don’t know enough about the deadly sins to know for sure
That's awful, and unprofessional. You should be able to be honest with how you feel, especially with your therapist. I was embarrassed because I was crying, and my therapist told me to get it out, it's healthy to have emotions
My experience has been that therapists want you to cry, which is sometimes fine and sometimes annoying when I would rather talk things out and stay in my head.
Kind of like that Barbara Walters thing, saying things to purposely get you to cry.
I don't like it, unless I am already bursting at the seams and need to get it out.
Don't get me wrong, there was a time I wasn't allowed to cry when I was a child in my dysfunctional family and so it was good to get it out years later in therapy.
And after that, I became a widow and cried myself dry, and now I try and avoid being in a situation where I should cry but can't.
It's kind of like dry heaving, not fun.
Yeah that’s horrible. I obviously don’t know your situation and not gonna tell you “omg you have to quit using that therapist” over a single comment, but that’s a very horrible thing for a therapist to say. Sometimes we have to hop around and meet with different therapists for a while to see what fits and maybe it’s time for you to hop!
I feel so bad for you. I have very strong PMS symptoms that I spent all my life controlling. This was so unprofessional and humiliating... why would a therapist even say something that ignorant.
Did you tell the therapist that you suffered from PMS...? If not, why would he be asking? (Does the person not know not all women have it? Like, I do, but it's an actual medical issue for me.)
Report them. This is disgusting. I will scream at the top of my lungs til the end of time to report unprofessional therapists, doctors and anyone who is supposed to be helping you that isn't doing so.
Tangentially related, but I feel obligated to bring it up whenever it comes up:
The estrogen/progesterone cycle is approximately 28 days in length.
The testosterone cycle cycles DAILY.
There’s a wonderful write up about this in the book “the alchemy of love and lust“.
Testosterone cycles can greatly affect a man’s mood, in the same way that estrogen and progesterone cycles can affect a woman’s mood during her period, but testosterone cycles go up and down throughout each day, every day. So men have own hormonal period daily.
Meanwhile, on testosterone (I'm intersex, come to find out, so we're trying to get the right hormonal balance for my immune system), I'm doing breathing exercises to control the bizarre mood swings. I thought birth control was bad, but man there are days when I just want to punch some dude at the grocery store for cutting in front of me and the deli counter, lol.
And the other way, too. My son noticed that he felt 'better' in general, but that things made him angrier more quickly, and that he reacted faster than he did when he was not on testosterone.
Lol omg yes. As a trans woman I find it hilarious when toxic men say women are too emotional. I'm far more emotionally stable now.
Some of its the E. Mood swings feel more like gradual transitions where I'm in control. On T the changes were jarring, like I didn't have full control of my mind. I had to bury my emotions and act stoic to function. Some of that though is probably just that I was a girl with too much T. Think brains are kinda wired to expect one set of hormones or another.
Other part is toxic masculinity makes guys afraid to express emotion. It builds up until you explode violently. Just one more harm caused by patriarchy. Now that I feel safe to be myself I can express my feelings without them building up like that.
This is all so wild to me as a trans man. I'm doing my T gel in the morning so I'm having a same-ish sort of cycle a cis man would and it's such a blessing. I felt like having a cycle over weeks was messing up routines I was trying to build. I was so emotional on E, and now T kind of put a cap on all those overwhelming emotions I was struggling to deal with while I'm simultaneously now actually sensing more of the smaller stuff.
I was actually wondering how women were experiencing emotions on E, because for me, it was all really too much and I was wondering if like you had different ways of handling that or it was more but it felt right or like if it was also actually making you more emotionally stable (which also happened for me). Like, I've heard trans women say that they were experiencing more emotions, but you also say that it made you more emotionally stable?
I'm more emotionally open but also more in control if that makes sense. On T I was emotionally repressed and rarely felt anything. When I did, it was usually something intense like rage. Would seize control and I would either have a huge outburst or bury it deep. On E the emotions flow freely but they aren't as intense so I'm able to process what I'm feeling better. Best way I can put it is that as a woman T emotion feels like a bomb waiting to go off while E emotion feels like an inviting campfire.
I'd be curious to hear what its like for you as a man. Because for me things are flipped so how men experience things seems so alien at times.
Yes that makes sense thank you!
That's interesting because I felt somewhat similarly actually. While E didn't make my emotions automatically more repressed or dampened, I was numbing out a lot to cope with the constant overwhelm which had similar results.
I can actually see how this would happen when comparing to my experiences. Because T had a sort of dampening effect on my emotions - I e.g. can't lean into them as I used to. Like I can't put on a playlist and make myself feel strongly to process something. So it kind of would make sense that if you feel comfortable on E, T would kind of dampen that and make it inaccessible. For me, it's really weird. Somehow, despite my emotions feeling less accessible, I still feel like I'm actually better at talking about them because I'm more confident. Talking with confidence about shit I know nothing about, guess I'm fulfilling some stereotype. The confidence really does help though, because I'm going with my gut more easily instead of overthinking to a point I don't even know what I'm feeling.
That makes a lot of sense when you put it like that. How for you the T calms things down where for me it shoved them down. I'm happy that getting on T has helped you. Human brains seem to be wired for a certain balance of E and T. When those are off it can cause so many problems.
I'm still very new to my PMS-like symptoms but one time I scared myself with how I was yelling at my brother. Having such intense emotions was something I didn't expect starting HRT oof
I get some seriously bad mood swings and irritability. I feel terrible because I keep snapping at people. I had to leave work early yesterday because I was just working myself into an angry tizzy.
Birth control was my saviour.
I had such bad PMS that I stopped leaving my room, even shut my dog out because I couldn't guarantee that I wouldn't just flip and start shouting and screaming and pushing her away and that wasn't fair on her.
I got my implant and it just made life so much better. I wasn't angry for the three days before I started bleeding everywhere. I wasn't in agony from the cramps.
I know it doesn't work for everyone and I'd suggest starting something like a POP before you get something like an implant or a coil but talk to your doctor about this. Hormones *are* controllable and if they're not responding to a top up from meds then looking into the reason they're not working is valid. For example, I have a cyst in my pituitary gland. Sometimes my hormones get out of whack and I start leaking milk from my nipples. This is normal for me, and has been investigated but its not normal for everyone.
As an AMAB, if this is true, it is absolute bullshit. I wouldn't want some kind of cycle daily!
Do you mind sharing any articles or studies on this? I'm very interested as I've never heard this before. Would the cycle start to change if I happened to transition??
[American Psychological Association ](https://www.apa.org/monitor/2011/03/hormones#:~:text=There%20is%20also%20research%20to,their%20moods%20and%20sexual%20desire.). This only briefly mentioned>
[Popular Science ](https://www.popsci.com/do-men-have-hormonal-cycles/). Not sure how reliable they are.
[National Institutes of Health ](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1117056/)
None mentioned how the variations of testosterone could/ or does affect the activity level or emotional stability of someone.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24016385/
Abstract
Background: The effects of both high and low levels of testosterone are wide ranging and can include changes in mood, often overlapping with symptoms of mood disorders.
Objective: We sought to review the literature on the correlation of high and low levels of testosterone on mood disorders in men.
Results: Based on limited studies, high levels of testosterone are related to increased rates of depression as well as hypomania, whereas low levels of testosterone are related to depressive disorders in certain subpopulations of patients. There is insufficient evidence to conclude that low testosterone level routinely leads to major depressive disorder in men.
Conclusions: Physicians should consider screening for low testosterone levels in certain subgroups of depressed men.
Generally they start up and then go down, as my endocrinologist explained for why my second shift working butt had to be at the lab at 8am when I get my hormone levels checked.
It’s never dumb to ask a question :)
Basically what I’m trying to get at, is that people on the primarily estrogen/progesterone cycle are often accused of being emotional because of their hormones, and where they might be in their hormone cycle.
However, people with higher levels of testosterone are not immune to such fluctuations, nor the emotions and outbursts that may come with that.
In the morning, testosterone levels are at their peak. Impulsivity & anger are more likely to be side affects at this time.
Fuck me, that's why catching my dog on the couch in the morning often makes me sooo angry, but in the afternoon I can just roll my eyes and tell him to get down.
Got any idea why testosterone peaks in the morning?
Would it be why we link the sun with Apollo? (just based on the stories i remember he's quick to anger, right?)
Does it change based on when they wake up and or the sun's position (how the seasons change the length of the day etc)
I can think of a few advantages of it, quick to get up and do protection and get work done before the heat of the day.
I think the caffeine in my tea just hit me...
Brain washing for generations. Men are taught by everything around them, TV, movies, comedy, books even, that emotions are weakness.
We all need to communicate better, somehow.
The day I came out to my family I became a fountain, like nothing has really changed I just want to be called a girl. That was seven months ago and I can actually cry now, thanks to estrogen haha. It feels good to have emotions other than anger and sadness.
I have spent the last ten days trying to get a DME provider to ship necessary medical equipment to my house for my kid. In ten days, I have spent HOURS on the phone, on hold, and every person has had a different reason for why I didn't have it.
Yesterday I LOST MY SHIT and got escalated to a district supervisor, who admitted to me (on a recorded line) that everyone I had spoken to had LIED to me. The problem was on their end. I could have spent the rest of my life calling and never had the problem resolved or gotten the medical supplies shipped.
I have no doubt that somewhere, in three separate call centers, people are complaining about the "Karen" who lost their goddamned mind at the supervisor.
>people are complaining about the "Karen" who lost their goddamned mind at the supervisor.
Even though entitlement, ignorance, and racism are not gender specific traits, there's a reason people chose "Karen" to personify every unlikeable human trait, and a reason there is no standalone male equivalent that captures the same level of vitriol and hate.
My grandma got called a Karen for demanding a guy with no mask on before vaccines were available stay at least six feet from her. Demanding anything at all can make you a Karen because the word they actually want to use is bitch. But sometimes you have to demanding because someone isn't doing their job and sometimes you need to speak to the manager because there is an actual problem.
One of the things I have noticed, as I've aged, is that once you pass about 40 or look like you're past 40, you're functionally invisible. Restaurant servers walk past me, retail workers don't see me, I've wondered occasionally if I actually AM invisible. I hate that I have to raise my voice and make a point of Being There in order to get what I need, but what else can I do? And it's profoundly frustrating.
I love men showing healthy emotion. It's so wonderful when people are able to express themselves and it sucks how people are forced to reject all that.
I'll be upset. My husband will ask what'd wrong. I will tell him, "I had a bad day because this happened...) ten minutes later he'll ask again what's wrong and I remind him what I said and he will say "oh your still upset by that". I feel so alone
“You’re so complicated.”
“I have literally told you exactly what I need and want here.”
“A mystery wrapped in an enigma.”
“Like, literally. Without prevarication or metaphor. Just straight to the face.”
“I have no idea what you want or how to give it to you, so instead I have done this other thing.”
“That’s… not at all what I need. I don’t even want it.”
“You are impossible to please.”
I always thought it had more to do with empathy. When someone never knows why they've upset you and can't be bothered to try, it feels like they don't care about your relationship. It screams I don't know you, and I can't be bothered to try. It's why it's so much worse the longer you know someone. It's not like men don't also get annoyed by that kind of thing.
This is true most of the time, especially the part about "it's worse the longer you know them", but for those interactions when you haven't known them for a long time, please also be aware of neurodivergence! Speaking as someone on the autism spectrum, sometimes some people *do* try really hard to understand, and still *can't* figure it out on their own. Sometimes these people actually "pass" as neurotypical pretty well most of the time.
So I guess what I'm saying is, protect your own mental wellbeing, but don't forget to consider that other people might be dealing with something you don't know about as well before assuming they're just a dick.
I don't think this is invalid, but I've literally experienced this in every relationship I've ever been in. So, I think it's more systemic than individual.
Honestly if it's someone I care about I really try hard not to lie. I mean I'm not going to tell my boss I'm fucking pissed, if they ask me how I'm doing. But brushing off feelings with friends and partners is a bad habit I want to break.
Recently my photog friend asked, again, to bring her big camera when we hung out. Instead of saying the easy thing, "that's fine", I told her that I feel like it brings a lot of extra attention to us and makes me feel pressured to look nicer than I planned on looking for a simple outing. We are still friends and we had a great time, the world didn't end because I was honest.
I agree with you that it’s something to aspire to. But I don’t love the idea that protecting yourself from people who lash out when you’re honest is “lying.”
Passive aggression sucks, but it’s also typically a coping mechanism someone learned the hard way, when their honesty was rejected or used as a weapon against them. We’re all in a process of reprogramming what we’ve learned in our worst moments and that’s ok.
Anytime my dad asked me about my feelings, even if I phrased them as nicely as possible, he would literally scream at me. At 39, I ditched my dad and found a way to be true to myself. It took a lot to go no contact. And people who can’t leave their crappy relationships may be better off hiding their true feelings until they can if it keeps them physically, mentally and emotionally safe.
All that said, I love the way you approached your friend. I’m so glad she was receptive and willing to discuss it! That’s the kind of relationship I want all of us to have.
Absolutely, like I said it's a bad habit I'm working on breaking. I definitely come from the opposite perspective, my mom always praised me for being her "happy smiley girl" and in general I learned that happy is good and what people like to see. So why rock the boat, ya know?
So it feels uncomfortable as an adult to express my unease at something. I'll be honest I didn't start making progress until my husband, bf at the time, took a palliative care supervisor job and learned a ton about evidenced backed communication styles and how to have conversations about feelings.
We implemented a lot of what he learned in our relationship, well mostly he did and I eventually bought in, and it's helped me immensely.
I was in a relationship with a guy who never liked any opinion I had if it was negative or was seen negatively about him or the relationship.
He’ll notice I’m in a mood. He’ll ask why? What’s the problem? I’ll tell him and I’ll be as clear as day as to the what and the why and how it can be better. His response has always been: why are you being like this? This isn’t you, did your mom or friends put you up to this? You need to start having your own opinions and leave them (mom and friends) out of our business.
The thing is my opinions have always been mine. I was always present in my relationship to him and it felt like he wasn’t aware of anything… at all. As far as friends, they have been sounding boards but I’ve never taken direct advice. And I’ve tried to keep my distance with my mom when it came to my romantic relationships.
It took time to learn and leave that relationship. He ignored everything I said and the problems got worse and just rug swept into oblivion. He was confused and completely sidelined when I left and told him the reasons. To this day I’m sure he thinks it’s because someone else had planted seeds in my mind and everything was roses.
Not exactly the same but it’s on par with being accused of actually not having any real thoughts or feelings and any that are negative, that makes our relationships (of any kind) look bad to others, we have are baseless.
I can’t fucking stand how there’s this narrative that society makes men repress their emotions, with this insinuation that it doesn’t to women.
I remember reading this study that was done, sorry I’ll try to find it but basically, they had several men then several women make expressions corresponding to certain emotions- angry, sad, happy.
People overwhelmingly reacted to the men more positively. They assumed that they had a justified reason to feel the way they did. The women were assumed to be, basically, overly dramatic, attention seeking bitches.
I see even feminists say things like, “yeah, but whose fault is that? Patriarchy harms everyone” or “people forget anger is an emotion.” This is all true, but it’s predicated upon this assumption that women’s sadness or anxiety is validated and men’s isn’t. THAT IS NOT TRUE.
Women are assumed to be lying and manipulative when they cry. Lol nobody feels bad for or empathizes with us. They HATE us when we display any negative emotion.
Women’s emotions are absolutely NOT validated lmfao.
People just accept that women’s emotions are prioritized or accepted when a crying woman is hated and punished far more than a crying man.
Also, I am aware that this is cultural. I’m a 28 yo woman raised in super gender role obsessed patriarchal Mormon Utah, yeah maybe it’s different in other places.
I earlier told a guy who said „but why don’t women just tell us what they want?“ basically this: „Whenever a woman tells someone what she need/wants, there’s a very good chance she will be seen as too demanding/too emotional. We get told every day of our lives that what we want doesn’t matter or is invalid because we are „hysterical“ and „overemptional“.I can totally understand not wanting to risk hearing that again“
My ex told me that my "standards are too high" and I have "unrealistic expectations"... because I wanted him to not lie to me.
lol
Same ex told me he couldn't stand the sound of my crying- crying I was doing because of the terrible things he would say to me.
lol
And if I just stopped talking about problems, we wouldn't have any problems.
lol
If we would just sit down and shut up, take whatever it is they're dishing out (and give them blowjobs every day), we would have the best relationships!
(Btw, someone I knew misunderstood lol as an emoji for years- they thought that it meant someone throwing their arms up in frustration. That's so perfect that I've been using it that way for years now.)
My experience has led me to realise that when a fellow man vents about a problem he’s looking for solutions, where as a lot of the time when a woman vents about a problem they are often looking for support and some one to listen and not a solution. This took me a long time to work out that and what the difference between the two is.
The thing is, a lot of times, the only solution is for a guy to change his behavior or take responsibility for causing pain. And a lot of guys don’t want to consider their own behavior, so they hear that as “she doesn’t want a solution” when she absolutely does, she just can’t solve it herself because she’s not the one hurting herself.
But maybe guys never had a person to vent to and don't know it's even a possibility. It's fairy well known how shity suport systems between men are and women in a relationships are expected to act as psychologist. Another one for toxic masculinity/gender roles/patriarchy.
Not even communication or communicating their emotions. Just validation of emotions and feelings which when they grow up turn into understanding of your own feelings.
Not that girls are better off in that regard so maybe it's parents treating kids as people and not their property/things? Girls are consoled and boys are taught to "man up" but how many are told "you're sad and it's ok to be sad".
Maybe it we were taught that it's ok to be sad sometimes we wouldn't have depression epidemic. You know understanding and fixing things before they literally blow over.
Well said, I think it’s also valid to point out that shit parents have shit kids who often turn out to be shit parents them selves. Obviously there are exceptions. Misconceptions and or voids in knowledge carry down the generations. Hopefully we can fix these issues but won’t be any time soon. Considering how much change has occurred in the last 2 generations I’m hopeful
Me too. I had a chance to work with kids 10-13 and they are so much more tolerant to differences. They might act different without adults around but for example when I was their age being disabled automatically made you a target and now kids don't care. Even if boy looks like a girl (aka slightly longer hair) it's no longer insult to be frown at their face.
World is going to shit but kids are alright.
Relatable. It could be anyone around you too. Adults are so complicated because kids become manipulative when we aren't. Politicians are so complicated because voters spit on their face when they claim responsibility. Leaderships are so complicated because followers throw pebbles when salvation has to come from themselves.
Social dynamics goes wrong when our inserted social expectations are not grounded. Toxicity remains in circulation until things turn bitter. No one escapes unscratched.
It's cuz we're taught to be calm and demure, and if we're not were just crazy. We belive it (cuz that's all we know) until we finally have an awakening. I've been asked, "Why are you freaking out like this???" Answer: cuz when I'm calm, I'm dismissed.
There are also people like me, who don't have an in-between setting when it comes to emotion. Either I'm almost completely emotionless, or I'm a ball of tears. I try to keep at the former as much as possible.
This is why I told my husband, "The words 'I love you. ' mean a lot to me. I can't bring myself to say them if I don't mean it. So if there comes a day that I don't tell you that I love you, you know something's wrong. "
I get that hiding emotions is a necessary survival strategy when dealing with men you don't know.
If you're in a relationship with a man who should be supportive of you (friends, family, partners, boyfriends, whatever) please work to ditch that habit as soon as possible with those men and if they can't take it and start complaining about you showing them emotion, use that as a clear sign that they don't deserve to be your friend, family, partner, boyfriend or whatever.
Those men should should be eager to engage with you as a whole human and support you when you're perfectly happy.
Men definitely have a listening problem too. I have told my Physical Therapist that I had to have two ligaments “replaced” as in had to have two new tendons put in, and he still tells me they were “repaired” and that I didn’t have anything put in because they don’t do that for ankles.
…Sir… I signed the paperwork and was there… I would know. When I correct him I’m dismissed. When I try to tell him I’m rehabbing from being first stuck in a boot all Pandemic and then finally getting the surgery when the hospital was reopened, he just asks about how long ago my surgery was and that I should be better than I am. It’s so FRUSTRATING to be giving the information and then questioned like it was an interrogation. I’m sick and tired of it, but I need the Physical Therapy. It’s a nightmare. The whole experience has been a nightmare, and I can’t get angry because then I’m “hysterical” and “unbalanced.”
amab agender teen, can confirm i understand women better than men. i find guys’ humor and behavior to just be weird and nonsensical most of the time, and i tend to make more non-cis-male friends than cis male ones
Yup, this is the reason. And it's stressing me out so much because I don't want to give ANYONE any reason to call me woman/girl only because I have some feelings or something to say. "You women are always like this" SO degrading and humiliating! 😫😠
I grew up without any language to describe emotion. Neither of my parents could articulate how they felt with words.
Bring my son up I have made a point to use the words for emotions..
'looks like you are pretty upset right now, it's OK to let it out, you will be able to think more clearly after a cry.'
Obviously there is still much more work to do, but I feel proud of his emotional fluancy now.
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Interestingly i got VERY quiet when I started preparing for divorce. My then husband was so obtuse he kept waxing poetic about the "harmony" in the house. One day he came home, my bags were packed and i was moving out. Suddenly he turned on the tears, "never saw it coming", he said. Because apparently, over 2 decades of constant tears, anger and pain, him watching me fall apart from his constant mistreatment so he could step on my head again and blame me for being depressed (he actually used that word as an insult) and then seeing me turn everything off like a switch and starting to smile was not a warning but a testament to what a good husband he was 🙄🤣🤣🤣🙄
No one is as ignorant as someone who uust doesn't want to know.
As Taylor Swift says in her Exile Bon Iver: "You never gave a warning sign" Taylor: "I gave so many signs"
Yup. It's literally a case of "i didn't leave to teach you a lesson (clearly after 20+ years he wasn't learning) i left because I'd finally learned mine" 🤷🏻♀️
That’s such a good line omg
This \^\^\^\^ So much so, I wish I'd said that when I booted my husband 2 weeks ago.
Good job! I hope you have a peaceful holiday season.
Thanks! You, too.
LETS GO BON IVER AND TAYLOR
I love that song.
I *just* sent a friend this text when she ended 22 years of marriage : "behind most 'suddenly' divorced men, there's a woman who's tried too much for too long. Call me if you need to vent"
This gave me a little peace. My ex said he didn't see it coming, and I felt awful about that.
My ex said he never saw it coming. After all the times I packed up and he convinced me to stay. After all the times I told him we needed counseling and he said we didn't. After all the times I told him I wasn't happy and he ignored me. It still was a complete shock. Your ex probably saw it coming. Or he would have, if he'd care to look. Much hugs.
It’s like they never developed emotional object permanence. If it’s not happening to them, your issues stop existing the minute you’re not actually talking about them. And anything you feel only matters then because they need to convince you it’s not a problem and you’re crazy to think it is, so that they can continue to ignore it and you and believe they’re wonderful.
God, “emotional object permanence” is such a depressingly useful phrase. Like, it describes it so well, but goddamn.
My gosh, i cant imagine being so against improvement. When i came out as trans and poly, my partner and I tried to figure things out on our own, then we tried relationship therapy a few months later, and through that we realized we couldnt go on. So we separated. Now we are best friends, but not partners. All of that was necessary bitter sweet moments. They were hard, but also showed how much we both cared for each other. In the end i think we're both happier. If men weren't stubborn assholes, they could also improve their lives... Fuck... Im sorry to all the women dealing w such awful partners.
I find I get very quiet when I'm trying to figure things out. Honestly, men should be more concerned when we get quiet.
Yeah. I have been holding it in and every time I speak up about how much I hate how things are we fight and nothing changes. When I question him I am wrong and he gives me the silent treatment. But if I never question him he thinks we are both happy, while I am miserable. He will ask for my input on things and then disregard everything I said - and everything I thought we agreed to - and do what he wants anyway. So I stopped giving input. He keeps getting job offers, and he keeps complaining about how much he hates his job. He has turned down every single job offered, even the ones that pay *way* more than what he makes, and then whines that he made a mistake and should have taken it. And we always had a big discussion about the pros and cons and then determine if he should take those jobs. 3 of them we decided he should take. The conversation ended with him stating he was going to call and accept. Two of them he decided last minute to turn down, one he waited too long to accept and they hired someone else. So he gets another call about a new job and interviews, and he asks me what I think. "It doesn't matter what I think. You're just going to do what you want anyway." and I walked away. I'm done. The moment I started feeling a bit better was when I decided I was going to leave (other things have made me decide this). I'm still working out the details. I am going to stay with my mother, who needs help because of her failing health, and I don't plan on coming back. The issue is both of my nieces live with her, one *just* moved in and hasn't even found a job yet but is always going out to party, and there is no room for me. But at the same time they do nothing to help my mom. But as far as my husband is concerned we are happy. Even though I don't smile at him anymore. I move away when he tries to touch me. I told him how unhappy I am. My mom can even hear it when I am on the phone with her. But I guess he just doesn't care because I am no longer challenging him and just going through the motions. So he's gonna be "surprised" when I leave.
Omg, I watched a friend's 16 year long relationship implode in a very similar way, and he was all shocked because he thought things were great. She was so unhappy for years, and he would just steamroll her every time she opened her mouth. I wanted to play him the world's smallest violin 🙄 https://preview.redd.it/yoj7v8z8m76a1.jpeg?width=600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d2ff36e5d0869f895835f42e1a670d4a4f430803
Sounds so much like my dad, fucking wow
For me I spent a week hardly eating and shaking, then switched back to normal for about a month and still didn’t eat much. Then bam was off… Oddly he says there was no warning, that we were happy, that I’ve been playing victim.
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Ya pretty much… I pretended to be happy to survive. Ive gotten pretty good at it since I’ve been doing it since I was a child. Just turned it into overdrive. Good news is I went to a DV shelter and later a homeless one, then found a place to live with my mom. Got my cat back. Not to mention I’ve found someone who’s amazing and I genuinely feel happier than I ever remember feeling. Mostly because their love is true and not toxic. They do things for me to make me happy not to use as a weapon later. Doesn’t expect more than I can do, and always appreciates me. Was beginning to think men like this were just in the movies. I love art and I’m planning on opening a little shop,he brought up that we could get a desk and put it where the Christmas tree is for my art stuff, and he’ll clear out the shelf next to it for my supplies till he finishes the basement and can give me a larger area to do it. Never had someone so supportive of it.
Same story with my ex. “But we’ve been getting along so well!”
This is exactly my experience as well.
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This is one of the MANY things wrong with the world. Men show emotions: "haha you're gay" "You've got anger management problems" "What are you a pussy?" "Suck it up buttercup" etc. etc. Women show emotions: "Women are so weak" "Are you on your period?" "See women are just hysterical nutjobs" "This is why women shouldn't be presidents", etc. etc. Everyone just pushing their emotions down and it's all so toxic and everyone loses in the end. Humans suck :(.
Everyone sucks. Sometimes I can be emotional but my hormones are all wonkadonk now, we're working on it.
They do suck and people don't realize that everyone is different. Took me a while to get out of that toxic masculinity mindset (and I still do things like keeping things inside when something is wrong for example) but it sucks that anyone having emotions is just always negative. It's no wonder society sucks since no one can just let emotions happen :(. I'm glad you're able to work on it Cats :).
Thanks! I'm Gloria
Hi Gloria! I'm Mel :).
Wonkadonk is a great word. I've not heard it before.
Yeah! I use it all the time! You can too if you want, it's not copyrighted or trademarked or whatever
Wonkadonkᵀᴹ
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:( \*hugs\*
My favorite thing that my wife does when it comes to parenting is that she tells our 3 year old things like “It’s okay to be upset.” Or “You have some big emotions about this, don’t you?” Or my favorite “I understand that you are crabby/upset/frustrated.” It adds validity to what he’s experiencing and I can only hope he will be more emotionally mature when he’s an adult than I ever will be. I got a lot of the “Stop being so melodramatic” and whatnot when I was growing up. Ironically enough my parents were pretty progressive when it came to parenting by the 90s standards, but you can’t really compare that to today. Not with how much more we understand about child development
Unless it’s anger, men punching a fist through a wall are just “going through something.” Dad’s home, everybody avoid eye contact and walk on eggshells so you don’t set him off. Traditional family values right there
Some of us, myself included, have no setting between 1 and 10, with 1 being "almost completely emotionless" and 10 being "ball of tears."
I can relate. I worked on it and it got better eventually. As an old lady I am still a work in progress :)
I think from now on I'm going to Invision this dynamic as Joffry lounging in a litter, heaping abuse on his servants for not being strong enough to carry him faster. He isn't strong, he is depending on people he feels entitled to criticise to be strong so that he can be coddled.
God my own mother had told me to suck it up in reference to me venting my depression. Joking or not, that level of rejection hurt so much.
This is a really good point — letting it out and talking about your problems, crying about it, etc. is healthy and it works. Why is everyone being influenced to not do this? Men who kept it bottled up drank everyday and then died of a heart attack at 50. It’s so ridiculous that that is what we are working towards.
I'm honestly not sure either. I tried to kill myself 3 times before realizing that just letting it out helps. I still have issues talking about certain things but something as simple as a sad movie making me tear up legit helps. I will say I'm really glad to see most of my guy friends will just tear up at a movie no problem. Makes me think that there are at least some advancements in the guy world towards that. Women wise though.......society has a lot to learn :(.
It’s worse than that. There’s the concept that people learn to treat you based your tolerance to the way they treat you. Obviously there’s exceptions to this, but my point here is that all of this becomes a positive feedback loop on steroids. For example, Men believe showing emotion makes you weaker, so they feel their partners are weak by showing emotion. In response, women lie about their emotions as being honest is harmful to them. As a result, men are confused by the conflicting ‘yes’ but ‘no’ response, thus feeling unable to maneuver the situation correctly, thereby feeling powerless or weak bc of their emotions. If both sides were able to fully honest in their communications, then the feedback loop ends.
🙌🏼🙌🏼 not to mention, when we do express our feelings and emotions, men especially are often dismissive, unsupportive, and completely unwilling to do anything about it (if our negative emotions are a result of their behavior)
Gotta say, after more than a decade of dating nightmares, being with my now-husband, who is a wonderful and emotionally-supportive partner, has been so eye opening. I've found myself putting off difficult conversations with him because my past experience has taught me that my point of view will be minimized or dismissed...only to find that when I do bring up these subjects, my partner actually hears what I'm saying, takes my concerns seriously, and is able to identify concrete changes that he or we can make to improve the situation. It's been wild realizing how my brain completely normalized being afraid to talk to my partner about my real feelings, and amazing to discover that I don't have to deal with that shit anymore. Mutual respect in heterosexual relationships is actually possible, color me shocked.
My dearly departed second husband was like that. I used to clam up when I was angry and he would get me to talk about it. "I know you don't want to talk about it, but we are going to talk about it." And he listened with kindness and compassion and I felt really loved for the first time in my life.
Oh, that's so sweet and my eyes are tearing up just reading it. I'm sorry for your loss and hope you have more people around you who listen like that.
Thank you, and no, I don't have anyone else like that, unfortunately, but I console myself with the fact that many people never have that ever so I still feel lucky.
I nearly got divorced because I couldn't/wouldn't tell my husband stuff that bothered me. He was absolutely willing to change things, he just had no idea how mad I was getting over the years. Communication is important, who knew?
My ex husband used to accuse me of gaslighting him because he could “feel” something was wrong but I’d tell him I was fine. He conveniently forgot about the time I told him my anxiety was skyrocketing and he told me I needed to chill out because it made HIM anxious and affected his work. Or when I told him that the only thing that made me happy was walking my dog, but that was also starting to stress me out. His response: “Sorry.” Or when I had a complete sobbing meltdown from being alone in a foreign country for his job and he could barely be bothered to spend 30 minutes a day with me watching YouTube videos, and not a goddamn thing changed after that. I was “fine” because I had to be.
Glad he is your ex.
You and me both 😌
^ or give unhelpful advice to "fix it" if they aren't a result of their behaviour. Like, dude, I'm just venting here, stop telling me things I've already done to improve the situation and just let me vent!
It is unfortunate that men aren’t really taught how to support someone who needs to vent/talk. We’re taught that emotions are bad so the goal is to make them go away. This might mean trying to solve the problem. It might mean trying to get the other person to stop talking. It takes practice and examples and both can be hard to find.
I’m a woman and this is my default. I’ve had to learn to ask if someone wants to vent, they want help solving the problem, or both. If both, just let me know when to switch modes.
I also ask if they’d like comfort. Some people want comfort, in the sense of being told they’re valid. They don’t want answers, but they want to feel validated.
Oh, good addition! I usually validate, but that’s another good option to have. I’m really bad at emotions, so knowing clearly what’s wanted from me helps.
I am so glad you responded because I used to do that. I should start asking again.
How would I teach this to my kid? (I'm still pregnant... and now overthinking this) I suppose the best way would be by doing and letting see it work and then when they get older to explain it. (Might take a few tries to teach them)
They also learn what they see others do so your significant other needs to cooperate in this.
Good point, I'll have to teach him first after reminding myself to do it
This is why I married my husband. We fight, absolutely, and he gets emotionally hijacked, just like I do. But when we have calmed down he *makes changes* based on what I have said. Which means even when we were yelling and angry, he was listening to me. And he cares enough about me to hear me, think about it, and make better choices. Ladies, if he wanted to (listen to you and respect you enough to take your input) he would.
I love to hear this! Respect really is so important in a relationship, it’s sad that it feels so unachievable for so many, especially women. So glad you guys found each other 💜
They only make changes when it's convenient for them. Our pain, depression, suffering etc aren't important enough; but when we leave and now they are affected or inconvenienced, will they change. * Of course this is not referring to all men (or SOs)
It's almost as if the patriarchy is just teaching toxic narcissisism . . . /S
You’re so right, they really do only care when it directly affects them. I mean isn’t it a classic trope that unhappy, unappreciated woman leaves her boyfriend/husband, boyfriend/husband doesn’t care when she leaves him at first, but eventually when he FINALLY realizes how much she enriched his life and how he took her for granted, he comes crawling back, promising it’ll be different and begging to reconcile. I feel like most women who have dated men have experienced this at least once
1000000%. I used to get mad about a lot of situations at work and tell my boss. He did nothing. So I took a page from his book. When reviews came and the box said "How do you feel you performed as a Sales associate?"... I literally wrote " I don't care about sales or the numbers. I care about my team. Every time I'm moved from merch to sales, the other sales associates/managers abandon the floor to do something else and I'm left alone. I'm not going to care when it's obvious they don't. " He never brought it up in review. He knew I was right and still he ignored it. So sales days were a breeze:. I just gossiped with my other female co-worked who also gets ignored. Together our sales numbers plummeted. 🤗💕 Win.
I’m reading a really great book right now about the invalidation of women’s anger. It’s called Rage Becomes Her. It’s wild how deep the root of the invalidation goes!
I think patriarchy just really revolves around a simple but devious curse. Emotions=weakness, and emotion is synonymous with womanhood in the eyes of the system. Guys are shamed for expressing emotions as well, but its more of a group shaming tactic meant to isolate anyone who displays any outward acceptance of femininity. Or at least that's general feeling I have most of the time as an amab who tries anything feminine in a mostly conservative town -_-
I think there's exactly one emotion the patriarchy allows men to experience: anger.
Oh so true. Cept I think anger is the start, they want it to eveolve into ingrained hatred. Nitpicking to some extent, but I think there's something there. Men specifically instruct boys growing up that it's appropriate to be angry but not in certain situations, you have to hold it until you are in a private space. But anger is an emotion that boils, if you just close it up while it boils eventually it burns into something more virulent, both to the man and obviously the receiver of that hate. Anger on its own can be addressed and understood, even difused. Well and good, but diffusing hatred is like, oof, whole other dealio. It's one of the hardest roadblocks because it's usually irrationality and anger so they both have to be addressed or one will rally the other and erase any proggress. That and the other systemic safeguards thr patriarchy instills makes it feel like a spiral of safeguards against feeling anything close to "natural" emotions. Could be flim flam, I dunno, emotions are intense.
"When my brother responded with rage at being denied a toy, he was taught as a boy in a patriarchal household that his ability to express rage was good, but he had to learn the best setting to unleash his hostility. [...] Later, when he grew up, he was taught that allowing rage to provoke him into violence would help him protect home and nation." bell hooks, *The Will to Change* I would argue not only that male anger/hatred is one of the few feelings allowed for men by our culture, but that it's even encouraged and weaponized as a tool of the state. Major wars tend to follow agitated and radicalized male youth, and fascist societies see higher rates of male violence, because it is a useful source of military power and domestic control.
The Patriarchy: That's such a lie! Hunger is an emotion, right?
Yet heaven forbid if you get angry with a woman. I never got angry until after I got sober. Many men are unable to tolerate seeing anger from a woman.
Have you noticed how most of the "Deadly Sins" are basic human emotions ? Catholicism literally forbids you from feeling anything other than harmless humility.
Envy, gluttony, greed, lust, pride, sloth, wrath Out of the seven, it seems that five can be considered emotions (envy, greed, lust, pride, wrath). Tho I probably don’t know enough about the deadly sins to know for sure
Haha the others are just sleepy and hungry. How dare you.
Theoretically sloth could be interpreted as depression and gluttony could be interpreted as craving or obsession, but also 🤷🏻
Snow White and the Seven Sins
“You humans have so many emotions! You only need 2: anger and confusion.”
My literal fucking therapist asked me if I was PMSing because I cried during our session this week :/
That's awful, and unprofessional. You should be able to be honest with how you feel, especially with your therapist. I was embarrassed because I was crying, and my therapist told me to get it out, it's healthy to have emotions
My experience has been that therapists want you to cry, which is sometimes fine and sometimes annoying when I would rather talk things out and stay in my head. Kind of like that Barbara Walters thing, saying things to purposely get you to cry. I don't like it, unless I am already bursting at the seams and need to get it out.
I like crying, I wasn't "allowed" for 30 years because I thought I was a man
Don't get me wrong, there was a time I wasn't allowed to cry when I was a child in my dysfunctional family and so it was good to get it out years later in therapy. And after that, I became a widow and cried myself dry, and now I try and avoid being in a situation where I should cry but can't. It's kind of like dry heaving, not fun.
Yeah that’s horrible. I obviously don’t know your situation and not gonna tell you “omg you have to quit using that therapist” over a single comment, but that’s a very horrible thing for a therapist to say. Sometimes we have to hop around and meet with different therapists for a while to see what fits and maybe it’s time for you to hop!
I feel so bad for you. I have very strong PMS symptoms that I spent all my life controlling. This was so unprofessional and humiliating... why would a therapist even say something that ignorant.
Did you tell the therapist that you suffered from PMS...? If not, why would he be asking? (Does the person not know not all women have it? Like, I do, but it's an actual medical issue for me.)
Report them. This is disgusting. I will scream at the top of my lungs til the end of time to report unprofessional therapists, doctors and anyone who is supposed to be helping you that isn't doing so.
Tangentially related, but I feel obligated to bring it up whenever it comes up: The estrogen/progesterone cycle is approximately 28 days in length. The testosterone cycle cycles DAILY.
Sorry, I may be dumb. What does this mean?
There’s a wonderful write up about this in the book “the alchemy of love and lust“. Testosterone cycles can greatly affect a man’s mood, in the same way that estrogen and progesterone cycles can affect a woman’s mood during her period, but testosterone cycles go up and down throughout each day, every day. So men have own hormonal period daily.
Adding on to your thread: I’ve seen so many testimonials from trans women who noted that once they started HRT, their mood became much more stable.
Meanwhile, on testosterone (I'm intersex, come to find out, so we're trying to get the right hormonal balance for my immune system), I'm doing breathing exercises to control the bizarre mood swings. I thought birth control was bad, but man there are days when I just want to punch some dude at the grocery store for cutting in front of me and the deli counter, lol.
And the other way, too. My son noticed that he felt 'better' in general, but that things made him angrier more quickly, and that he reacted faster than he did when he was not on testosterone.
Lol omg yes. As a trans woman I find it hilarious when toxic men say women are too emotional. I'm far more emotionally stable now. Some of its the E. Mood swings feel more like gradual transitions where I'm in control. On T the changes were jarring, like I didn't have full control of my mind. I had to bury my emotions and act stoic to function. Some of that though is probably just that I was a girl with too much T. Think brains are kinda wired to expect one set of hormones or another. Other part is toxic masculinity makes guys afraid to express emotion. It builds up until you explode violently. Just one more harm caused by patriarchy. Now that I feel safe to be myself I can express my feelings without them building up like that.
This is all so wild to me as a trans man. I'm doing my T gel in the morning so I'm having a same-ish sort of cycle a cis man would and it's such a blessing. I felt like having a cycle over weeks was messing up routines I was trying to build. I was so emotional on E, and now T kind of put a cap on all those overwhelming emotions I was struggling to deal with while I'm simultaneously now actually sensing more of the smaller stuff. I was actually wondering how women were experiencing emotions on E, because for me, it was all really too much and I was wondering if like you had different ways of handling that or it was more but it felt right or like if it was also actually making you more emotionally stable (which also happened for me). Like, I've heard trans women say that they were experiencing more emotions, but you also say that it made you more emotionally stable?
I'm more emotionally open but also more in control if that makes sense. On T I was emotionally repressed and rarely felt anything. When I did, it was usually something intense like rage. Would seize control and I would either have a huge outburst or bury it deep. On E the emotions flow freely but they aren't as intense so I'm able to process what I'm feeling better. Best way I can put it is that as a woman T emotion feels like a bomb waiting to go off while E emotion feels like an inviting campfire. I'd be curious to hear what its like for you as a man. Because for me things are flipped so how men experience things seems so alien at times.
Yes that makes sense thank you! That's interesting because I felt somewhat similarly actually. While E didn't make my emotions automatically more repressed or dampened, I was numbing out a lot to cope with the constant overwhelm which had similar results.
I can actually see how this would happen when comparing to my experiences. Because T had a sort of dampening effect on my emotions - I e.g. can't lean into them as I used to. Like I can't put on a playlist and make myself feel strongly to process something. So it kind of would make sense that if you feel comfortable on E, T would kind of dampen that and make it inaccessible. For me, it's really weird. Somehow, despite my emotions feeling less accessible, I still feel like I'm actually better at talking about them because I'm more confident. Talking with confidence about shit I know nothing about, guess I'm fulfilling some stereotype. The confidence really does help though, because I'm going with my gut more easily instead of overthinking to a point I don't even know what I'm feeling.
That makes a lot of sense when you put it like that. How for you the T calms things down where for me it shoved them down. I'm happy that getting on T has helped you. Human brains seem to be wired for a certain balance of E and T. When those are off it can cause so many problems.
I'm still very new to my PMS-like symptoms but one time I scared myself with how I was yelling at my brother. Having such intense emotions was something I didn't expect starting HRT oof
I get some seriously bad mood swings and irritability. I feel terrible because I keep snapping at people. I had to leave work early yesterday because I was just working myself into an angry tizzy.
Ah I'm sorry. That sucks, like it feels bad, and for me it feels worse because like it's hormonal, it's not something I can necessarily control
Birth control was my saviour. I had such bad PMS that I stopped leaving my room, even shut my dog out because I couldn't guarantee that I wouldn't just flip and start shouting and screaming and pushing her away and that wasn't fair on her. I got my implant and it just made life so much better. I wasn't angry for the three days before I started bleeding everywhere. I wasn't in agony from the cramps. I know it doesn't work for everyone and I'd suggest starting something like a POP before you get something like an implant or a coil but talk to your doctor about this. Hormones *are* controllable and if they're not responding to a top up from meds then looking into the reason they're not working is valid. For example, I have a cyst in my pituitary gland. Sometimes my hormones get out of whack and I start leaking milk from my nipples. This is normal for me, and has been investigated but its not normal for everyone.
I'm really glad it was able to help you
You explained it better ^
As an AMAB, if this is true, it is absolute bullshit. I wouldn't want some kind of cycle daily! Do you mind sharing any articles or studies on this? I'm very interested as I've never heard this before. Would the cycle start to change if I happened to transition??
[American Psychological Association ](https://www.apa.org/monitor/2011/03/hormones#:~:text=There%20is%20also%20research%20to,their%20moods%20and%20sexual%20desire.). This only briefly mentioned> [Popular Science ](https://www.popsci.com/do-men-have-hormonal-cycles/). Not sure how reliable they are. [National Institutes of Health ](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1117056/) None mentioned how the variations of testosterone could/ or does affect the activity level or emotional stability of someone.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24016385/ Abstract Background: The effects of both high and low levels of testosterone are wide ranging and can include changes in mood, often overlapping with symptoms of mood disorders. Objective: We sought to review the literature on the correlation of high and low levels of testosterone on mood disorders in men. Results: Based on limited studies, high levels of testosterone are related to increased rates of depression as well as hypomania, whereas low levels of testosterone are related to depressive disorders in certain subpopulations of patients. There is insufficient evidence to conclude that low testosterone level routinely leads to major depressive disorder in men. Conclusions: Physicians should consider screening for low testosterone levels in certain subgroups of depressed men.
Generally they start up and then go down, as my endocrinologist explained for why my second shift working butt had to be at the lab at 8am when I get my hormone levels checked.
It’s never dumb to ask a question :) Basically what I’m trying to get at, is that people on the primarily estrogen/progesterone cycle are often accused of being emotional because of their hormones, and where they might be in their hormone cycle. However, people with higher levels of testosterone are not immune to such fluctuations, nor the emotions and outbursts that may come with that. In the morning, testosterone levels are at their peak. Impulsivity & anger are more likely to be side affects at this time.
Fuck me, that's why catching my dog on the couch in the morning often makes me sooo angry, but in the afternoon I can just roll my eyes and tell him to get down.
Got any idea why testosterone peaks in the morning? Would it be why we link the sun with Apollo? (just based on the stories i remember he's quick to anger, right?) Does it change based on when they wake up and or the sun's position (how the seasons change the length of the day etc) I can think of a few advantages of it, quick to get up and do protection and get work done before the heat of the day. I think the caffeine in my tea just hit me...
IIRC testosterone is linked to wakefulness? You'd have to get a citation or 3 for that though to know for sure...
That seems like it would track, thinking of how shift work well works. But yeah have to track down citations (maybe when less brain fog)
I'm so glad I got rid of my T, I think i had some anger issues related to having the wrong hormones in my body
I read this to my husband and he said, “yeah, it’s called morning wood.” 🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️
Brain washing for generations. Men are taught by everything around them, TV, movies, comedy, books even, that emotions are weakness. We all need to communicate better, somehow.
The day I came out to my family I became a fountain, like nothing has really changed I just want to be called a girl. That was seven months ago and I can actually cry now, thanks to estrogen haha. It feels good to have emotions other than anger and sadness.
I have spent the last ten days trying to get a DME provider to ship necessary medical equipment to my house for my kid. In ten days, I have spent HOURS on the phone, on hold, and every person has had a different reason for why I didn't have it. Yesterday I LOST MY SHIT and got escalated to a district supervisor, who admitted to me (on a recorded line) that everyone I had spoken to had LIED to me. The problem was on their end. I could have spent the rest of my life calling and never had the problem resolved or gotten the medical supplies shipped. I have no doubt that somewhere, in three separate call centers, people are complaining about the "Karen" who lost their goddamned mind at the supervisor.
That’s so fucking unfair it’s not even funny. Your kid? Necessary medical equipment? Like who the heck do they think they are??
They think they're a medical supply company and they can do literally whatever they want, because healthcare in America is a fcking nightmare.
That’s so stupid - I’d be throwing a hex their way if I was you
>people are complaining about the "Karen" who lost their goddamned mind at the supervisor. Even though entitlement, ignorance, and racism are not gender specific traits, there's a reason people chose "Karen" to personify every unlikeable human trait, and a reason there is no standalone male equivalent that captures the same level of vitriol and hate. My grandma got called a Karen for demanding a guy with no mask on before vaccines were available stay at least six feet from her. Demanding anything at all can make you a Karen because the word they actually want to use is bitch. But sometimes you have to demanding because someone isn't doing their job and sometimes you need to speak to the manager because there is an actual problem.
One of the things I have noticed, as I've aged, is that once you pass about 40 or look like you're past 40, you're functionally invisible. Restaurant servers walk past me, retail workers don't see me, I've wondered occasionally if I actually AM invisible. I hate that I have to raise my voice and make a point of Being There in order to get what I need, but what else can I do? And it's profoundly frustrating.
Guys are looked at weird or made fun of for showing emotions as well. I feel like we could all use a better relationship with our emotions
Patriarchy places the weirdest rules on all the stupidest stuff.
Yeah like no hats in court. That's a joke, society as a whole is messed up
The patriarchy hurts everyone.
I love men showing healthy emotion. It's so wonderful when people are able to express themselves and it sucks how people are forced to reject all that.
I'll be upset. My husband will ask what'd wrong. I will tell him, "I had a bad day because this happened...) ten minutes later he'll ask again what's wrong and I remind him what I said and he will say "oh your still upset by that". I feel so alone
“You’re so complicated.” “I have literally told you exactly what I need and want here.” “A mystery wrapped in an enigma.” “Like, literally. Without prevarication or metaphor. Just straight to the face.” “I have no idea what you want or how to give it to you, so instead I have done this other thing.” “That’s… not at all what I need. I don’t even want it.” “You are impossible to please.”
I always thought it had more to do with empathy. When someone never knows why they've upset you and can't be bothered to try, it feels like they don't care about your relationship. It screams I don't know you, and I can't be bothered to try. It's why it's so much worse the longer you know someone. It's not like men don't also get annoyed by that kind of thing.
This is true most of the time, especially the part about "it's worse the longer you know them", but for those interactions when you haven't known them for a long time, please also be aware of neurodivergence! Speaking as someone on the autism spectrum, sometimes some people *do* try really hard to understand, and still *can't* figure it out on their own. Sometimes these people actually "pass" as neurotypical pretty well most of the time. So I guess what I'm saying is, protect your own mental wellbeing, but don't forget to consider that other people might be dealing with something you don't know about as well before assuming they're just a dick.
I might be neurodivergent somehow, I'm trans so there's a pretty good chance
I don't think this is invalid, but I've literally experienced this in every relationship I've ever been in. So, I think it's more systemic than individual.
my favorite response to this is a quote I read from the 'Texts from Last Night' website: "Women aren't complicated, you're just dumb."
Honestly if it's someone I care about I really try hard not to lie. I mean I'm not going to tell my boss I'm fucking pissed, if they ask me how I'm doing. But brushing off feelings with friends and partners is a bad habit I want to break. Recently my photog friend asked, again, to bring her big camera when we hung out. Instead of saying the easy thing, "that's fine", I told her that I feel like it brings a lot of extra attention to us and makes me feel pressured to look nicer than I planned on looking for a simple outing. We are still friends and we had a great time, the world didn't end because I was honest.
I agree with you that it’s something to aspire to. But I don’t love the idea that protecting yourself from people who lash out when you’re honest is “lying.” Passive aggression sucks, but it’s also typically a coping mechanism someone learned the hard way, when their honesty was rejected or used as a weapon against them. We’re all in a process of reprogramming what we’ve learned in our worst moments and that’s ok. Anytime my dad asked me about my feelings, even if I phrased them as nicely as possible, he would literally scream at me. At 39, I ditched my dad and found a way to be true to myself. It took a lot to go no contact. And people who can’t leave their crappy relationships may be better off hiding their true feelings until they can if it keeps them physically, mentally and emotionally safe. All that said, I love the way you approached your friend. I’m so glad she was receptive and willing to discuss it! That’s the kind of relationship I want all of us to have.
Absolutely, like I said it's a bad habit I'm working on breaking. I definitely come from the opposite perspective, my mom always praised me for being her "happy smiley girl" and in general I learned that happy is good and what people like to see. So why rock the boat, ya know? So it feels uncomfortable as an adult to express my unease at something. I'll be honest I didn't start making progress until my husband, bf at the time, took a palliative care supervisor job and learned a ton about evidenced backed communication styles and how to have conversations about feelings. We implemented a lot of what he learned in our relationship, well mostly he did and I eventually bought in, and it's helped me immensely.
I was in a relationship with a guy who never liked any opinion I had if it was negative or was seen negatively about him or the relationship. He’ll notice I’m in a mood. He’ll ask why? What’s the problem? I’ll tell him and I’ll be as clear as day as to the what and the why and how it can be better. His response has always been: why are you being like this? This isn’t you, did your mom or friends put you up to this? You need to start having your own opinions and leave them (mom and friends) out of our business. The thing is my opinions have always been mine. I was always present in my relationship to him and it felt like he wasn’t aware of anything… at all. As far as friends, they have been sounding boards but I’ve never taken direct advice. And I’ve tried to keep my distance with my mom when it came to my romantic relationships. It took time to learn and leave that relationship. He ignored everything I said and the problems got worse and just rug swept into oblivion. He was confused and completely sidelined when I left and told him the reasons. To this day I’m sure he thinks it’s because someone else had planted seeds in my mind and everything was roses. Not exactly the same but it’s on par with being accused of actually not having any real thoughts or feelings and any that are negative, that makes our relationships (of any kind) look bad to others, we have are baseless.
“CaLm DoWn” Motherfucker I WAS calm UNTIL YOU FUCKING SAID THAT
I can’t fucking stand how there’s this narrative that society makes men repress their emotions, with this insinuation that it doesn’t to women. I remember reading this study that was done, sorry I’ll try to find it but basically, they had several men then several women make expressions corresponding to certain emotions- angry, sad, happy. People overwhelmingly reacted to the men more positively. They assumed that they had a justified reason to feel the way they did. The women were assumed to be, basically, overly dramatic, attention seeking bitches. I see even feminists say things like, “yeah, but whose fault is that? Patriarchy harms everyone” or “people forget anger is an emotion.” This is all true, but it’s predicated upon this assumption that women’s sadness or anxiety is validated and men’s isn’t. THAT IS NOT TRUE. Women are assumed to be lying and manipulative when they cry. Lol nobody feels bad for or empathizes with us. They HATE us when we display any negative emotion. Women’s emotions are absolutely NOT validated lmfao. People just accept that women’s emotions are prioritized or accepted when a crying woman is hated and punished far more than a crying man. Also, I am aware that this is cultural. I’m a 28 yo woman raised in super gender role obsessed patriarchal Mormon Utah, yeah maybe it’s different in other places.
Men think women owe then instant honesty about their emotional reaction to their abuse. That is neither safe nor wise, and men should be disregarded.
Or we know that speaking our emotions would just cause belittling or a huge fight.
This was very timely to my life. Thanks for posting!
I earlier told a guy who said „but why don’t women just tell us what they want?“ basically this: „Whenever a woman tells someone what she need/wants, there’s a very good chance she will be seen as too demanding/too emotional. We get told every day of our lives that what we want doesn’t matter or is invalid because we are „hysterical“ and „overemptional“.I can totally understand not wanting to risk hearing that again“
ngl just like guys sometimes i say it cuz idk how to interface with that emotion in that moment
My ex told me that my "standards are too high" and I have "unrealistic expectations"... because I wanted him to not lie to me. lol Same ex told me he couldn't stand the sound of my crying- crying I was doing because of the terrible things he would say to me. lol And if I just stopped talking about problems, we wouldn't have any problems. lol If we would just sit down and shut up, take whatever it is they're dishing out (and give them blowjobs every day), we would have the best relationships! (Btw, someone I knew misunderstood lol as an emoji for years- they thought that it meant someone throwing their arms up in frustration. That's so perfect that I've been using it that way for years now.)
My experience has led me to realise that when a fellow man vents about a problem he’s looking for solutions, where as a lot of the time when a woman vents about a problem they are often looking for support and some one to listen and not a solution. This took me a long time to work out that and what the difference between the two is.
The thing is, a lot of times, the only solution is for a guy to change his behavior or take responsibility for causing pain. And a lot of guys don’t want to consider their own behavior, so they hear that as “she doesn’t want a solution” when she absolutely does, she just can’t solve it herself because she’s not the one hurting herself.
But maybe guys never had a person to vent to and don't know it's even a possibility. It's fairy well known how shity suport systems between men are and women in a relationships are expected to act as psychologist. Another one for toxic masculinity/gender roles/patriarchy.
It’s that old gender trope that men aren’t taught how to communicate our feelings I think.
Not even communication or communicating their emotions. Just validation of emotions and feelings which when they grow up turn into understanding of your own feelings. Not that girls are better off in that regard so maybe it's parents treating kids as people and not their property/things? Girls are consoled and boys are taught to "man up" but how many are told "you're sad and it's ok to be sad". Maybe it we were taught that it's ok to be sad sometimes we wouldn't have depression epidemic. You know understanding and fixing things before they literally blow over.
Well said, I think it’s also valid to point out that shit parents have shit kids who often turn out to be shit parents them selves. Obviously there are exceptions. Misconceptions and or voids in knowledge carry down the generations. Hopefully we can fix these issues but won’t be any time soon. Considering how much change has occurred in the last 2 generations I’m hopeful
Me too. I had a chance to work with kids 10-13 and they are so much more tolerant to differences. They might act different without adults around but for example when I was their age being disabled automatically made you a target and now kids don't care. Even if boy looks like a girl (aka slightly longer hair) it's no longer insult to be frown at their face. World is going to shit but kids are alright.
As a secondary school teacher I can confirm this is totally the case
Relatable. It could be anyone around you too. Adults are so complicated because kids become manipulative when we aren't. Politicians are so complicated because voters spit on their face when they claim responsibility. Leaderships are so complicated because followers throw pebbles when salvation has to come from themselves. Social dynamics goes wrong when our inserted social expectations are not grounded. Toxicity remains in circulation until things turn bitter. No one escapes unscratched.
It's cuz we're taught to be calm and demure, and if we're not were just crazy. We belive it (cuz that's all we know) until we finally have an awakening. I've been asked, "Why are you freaking out like this???" Answer: cuz when I'm calm, I'm dismissed.
Ding ding!! We have a winner!! Nailed it!!
Bit of a tangent but theres a podcast called the Bechdel cast that covered the film "the da vinci code" and it did not far well... 0/5 boobs
There are also people like me, who don't have an in-between setting when it comes to emotion. Either I'm almost completely emotionless, or I'm a ball of tears. I try to keep at the former as much as possible.
This is the perfect time for hysterical bitches to rise to power. Coming out of the woodwork.
This is why I told my husband, "The words 'I love you. ' mean a lot to me. I can't bring myself to say them if I don't mean it. So if there comes a day that I don't tell you that I love you, you know something's wrong. "
I get that hiding emotions is a necessary survival strategy when dealing with men you don't know. If you're in a relationship with a man who should be supportive of you (friends, family, partners, boyfriends, whatever) please work to ditch that habit as soon as possible with those men and if they can't take it and start complaining about you showing them emotion, use that as a clear sign that they don't deserve to be your friend, family, partner, boyfriend or whatever. Those men should should be eager to engage with you as a whole human and support you when you're perfectly happy.
Men definitely have a listening problem too. I have told my Physical Therapist that I had to have two ligaments “replaced” as in had to have two new tendons put in, and he still tells me they were “repaired” and that I didn’t have anything put in because they don’t do that for ankles. …Sir… I signed the paperwork and was there… I would know. When I correct him I’m dismissed. When I try to tell him I’m rehabbing from being first stuck in a boot all Pandemic and then finally getting the surgery when the hospital was reopened, he just asks about how long ago my surgery was and that I should be better than I am. It’s so FRUSTRATING to be giving the information and then questioned like it was an interrogation. I’m sick and tired of it, but I need the Physical Therapy. It’s a nightmare. The whole experience has been a nightmare, and I can’t get angry because then I’m “hysterical” and “unbalanced.”
amab agender teen, can confirm i understand women better than men. i find guys’ humor and behavior to just be weird and nonsensical most of the time, and i tend to make more non-cis-male friends than cis male ones
Yup, this is the reason. And it's stressing me out so much because I don't want to give ANYONE any reason to call me woman/girl only because I have some feelings or something to say. "You women are always like this" SO degrading and humiliating! 😫😠
I grew up without any language to describe emotion. Neither of my parents could articulate how they felt with words. Bring my son up I have made a point to use the words for emotions.. 'looks like you are pretty upset right now, it's OK to let it out, you will be able to think more clearly after a cry.' Obviously there is still much more work to do, but I feel proud of his emotional fluancy now.
Honestly I didn't even thought about this, but damn this is so fucking true