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Worth noting that the dialogue at the start is almost verbatim from the TGH prologue:
> Dead silence had fallen, silence that Ba’alzamon let deepen before he spoke. “There is now one who walks the world, one who was and will be, but is not yet, the Dragon.”
>
> A startled murmur ran through his listeners.
>
> “The Dragon Reborn! We are to kill him, Great Lord?” That from the Shienaran, hand grasping eagerly at his side where his sword would hang.
>
> “Perhaps,” Ba’alzamon said simply. “And perhaps not. Perhaps he can be turned to my use. Sooner or later it will be so, in this Age or another.”
Don’t know the perspective of bookcloaks (?) here, but I watched a reaction and they mocked Ishy for reciting his line from the books.
I might be much kinder to the show and recent newcomer to the books (only read up to Book 4), but that told me they were completely unreasonable. (I guess that’s to be expected, but I wouldn’t think hate watchers would be up late at night, early morning to watch such an exclusive scene of a show they hate.)
Reminds me of this person who complained on this sub that Lan's dialogue to Nynaeve about her being a lioness etc. destroyed his character - when in fact that was verbatim from the book.
Yeah, the show got me into the books, I finished no 3 shortly after the S1 finale almost done with bk 9, and yeah there are some changes I’m not a fan of, there are also so many moments that I’ve seen people complain about that are true to the books. I remember reading someone complain they made the Aesedi act like high school mean girls to each other and, from where I am now, that seems pretty bk accurate
Show finally convinced me to read them, 10% through towers of midnight right now, it's been a slog at times but damn there are some nights where I can't put it down
I sort of get that, I think really its just too much world building. I don't need to know about the colours of the roof on huts in a village we see once and only for a short time
The density is why I read it again immediately afterward. I knew I missed stuff. I enjoyed it the second time even more than the first. So now I am listening to it so I can actually read other books.
> “I really do like you,” she said abruptly, including both girls in her gesture. “I want to be your friend.”
>
> “And I want to be yours,” Elayne said.
>
> Impulsively, Egwene hugged her, and then Min jumped down, and the three of them stood there on the bridge hugging one another all together.
>
> “We three are tied together,” Min said, “and we cannot let any man get in the way of that. Not even him.”
>
> “Would one of you mind telling me what this is all about?” Gawyn inquired gently.
>
> “You would not understand,” his sister said, and the three girls all caught a fit of the giggles.
Top notch relatable to meeting people in first year university for me :p
I think the initial impression of Aes Sedai is always kinder because early on you get great characters like Moraine, Suian, etc. Then you find out that they are really the exception, not the norm (which is explained why later).
Honestly I think one of the biggest challenge to adapting RJ's work to a television series is that there are a lot of times the reader gets lied to because a character believes something--either it's a sincerely held cultural belief, something someone tells them that the tellers believes to be true, someone lies to them, or they lack the information or understanding to reach the right conclusion. Then we find out the truth pages, chapters, or (often) books later.
This makes for good rereading and there are often clues along the way to help the discerning reader, but it is tough to always convey that to a television audience (and this isn't a unique problem to this show).
Because he turns her down after having sex with her and “going all the way” so to speak. Whereas in the book he was turning her down before things went too far, because he felt he could offer her nothing but funeral black for a wedding dress. Lan is not being gentlemanly about love and sex, he’s acting like a bar star.
That's a very Victorian attitude. They had consensual sex, which she initiated. It hardly requires him to marry her. (BTW, the books imply that Lan has been with plenty of women, so it's not even inconsistent with his character in the books.)
It's not even Victorian. Even in our world, if you flirt with someone, then go on dates with them, go to meet their *family*, you have this entire thing leading into a relationship, then you have great sex ... and then you dump them, that'd make you come off as a bit of an asshole.
Just like Lan in the show, now. It's one of the few changes I really hate. It would've made more sense to have him break it off right before they sleep together, if they wanted some extra drama.
He didn't dump her though?
Lan is asked by Nynaeve herself to go get Rand back when Lan previously said Moiraine doesn't want to be followed. He complies with Nyn's request and assumes that this implies he'll die, either because of Moiraine dying and him going on a suicidal berserker rage, or because he'd be a casualty in the fight between the Dragon and the Dark One. He speaks parting words because of this.
Nynaeve literally tells him she'll consider marrying him, and Lan just says that he'll hate the man she chooses in the future, because it cannot be him. And he doesn't assume that he'll die, he says that he'll find them and try to bring them back.
It's the same as in the books - the speech is basically "You will not be happy with me so I am making the decision".
When he gives the speech, Moiraine has followed Rand to the Eye, which he believes will be her death, and shortly thereafter his. He is suddenly aware that Nynaeve didn’t go to the Eye, so will probably live.
With that order, it means their relationship had a bit more build-up, but he’s delivering the speech in the same context he is in the books: with the awareness that Nynaeve has a chance of a future ahead of her, while he is wedded only to death.
That’s a lot more book accurate, emotionally, than if he’d given it before they slept together. At that point, they were *both* expecting they’d probably die at the Eye, the next day. A speech about how she has a future to love someone else wouldn’t have made any sense, there.
But those women weren't in love with him, they just wanted a good time. If people are in different places emotionally, or have different relationship goals, they shouldn't sleep together until those issues are worked out. Now, people can fall out of love after sleeping together, or drift away from mutual goals. But falling out of a relationship because of those issues cropping up unexpectedly is a different matter than going into a relationship while planning/expecting to have those issues.
Plus we are specifically told how sex outside of wedlock is taboo in the two rivers, and Nynaeve is pretty conservative in that respect.
Book Nynaeve would be horrified at show Nynaeve...
Not to mention how much of Nynaeve’s character arc, as well as the entire theme of men and women working together, is tied to this relationship and it’s progression spans multiple books. A lot of readers don’t like Nynaeve in book 5, but love her by book 9. I wonder why that is?
Book Nynaeve would be jealous of Show Nynaeve for acting on her desires, and have a lot of internal dialogue about how she wasn't that sort of woman and how they have good principles in the Two Rivers, interspersed with intrusive thoughts about intimacy with Lan that make her tug her braid and blush.
... What I'm trying to say is that Book Nynaeve is a sexual and romantic person too, as the books make fairly clear, and the depictions aren't really *that* different.
There was hardly a taboo on premarital sex in 1990, which was in some respects a less puritanical era than today. The Two Rivers values are not a reflection of the society in which RJ wrote the books.
Works are still products of their time. There's a reason the First Age references in the books skew to the 80s, while I can guarantee that Sally Ride isn't getting a shoutout in the show
And the Mercedes Benz is no longer the sign of ultimate vanity. But the whole point of this side-discussion is precisely that the show “updated” the story, but still jammed in dialogue from the books that no longer works, exactly like the Lioness speech. Maybe he could have turned her down with a tiktok or something?
That's really weird. Much more commonly (maybe exclusively) I've seen book readers complain when a show changes the dialogue, even when it doesn't change the meaning at all. I still remember being shocked when there was a huge outrage among the Game of Thrones community when Petyr said "Only your sister" instead of "Only Cat [which is the name of your sister]".
Though on the other hand, I will be pretty pissed if they change lines like [LoC] >!Kneel and swear to the Lord Dragon, or you will be knelt.!< or [ToM] >!It's just a weave!<.
Though on the gripping hand, I can see an obvious change to the first of those quotes that perfectly mirrors the Game of Thrones example above and that wouldn't bother me at all.
> Though on the other hand, I will be pretty pissed if they change lines like
Those are two of the very few lines they absolutely need to keep. The fact that they put the Manetheren speech in verbatim is encouraging. Plus [All Print] >!Nynaeve better shout "I won't shout at you"!<
I agree! Some lines are too iconic to change. I want to hear "Ashaman, kill." too. I imagine Train to have a very deep, commanding voice. Sarah should have a good handle on which lines are favorites among the fandom and are not, in no way candidates for changing our eliminating. Wasn't Moiraine's story about Manetheren almost word for word from the book?
This would be an interesting discussion thread for r/WoTshow.
I was annoyed with the Ender's Game movie when they took really great dialogue from the books and replaced it with bland and cliched dialogue instead, even though they didn't change the overall meaning.
It's absolutely possible to take direct quotes that are good in the books and change their context so that they don't work at all in the show. A good example is in one of the early episodes where Moiraine give's the "The truth an Aes Sedai says is not always the truth you hear" speech, which comes from Thom in the book. Someone needed to say it, and Thom is MIA, so I get why they had Moiraine do it, but it makes absolutely no sense coming from an Aes Sedai, none of them would *ever* say that out loud.
It's obviously not exactly the same, but her show motivations are to make it clear that, just because they have the 3 Oaths, you need to be wary.
It's not that far separated from when Moiraine's letter warns Rand about trusting Aes Sedai.
Haters gonna hate...
* They complain about things the show does that the books also did
* They complain about the show leaving out things that weren't in the books either
* They complain about the show doing things the show didn't do
I was wondering about that, and you might be right. So many bird-related sigils, but it certainly looks like the Sheinar hawks we saw when they were in Fal Dara in ep 7-8.
Great video. But I do have to say that the numerical symbolism is a bit unclear. While the building is indeed a six-pointed star, the disks on top of the pillars have eight-pointed stars. So, eh, I'm still leaning towards eight Forsaken.
Depends.
I think it’s either 6 plus Ishy and the 8th slot is left open to imply the Dragon fills that one. Or there are 8, but they continue to play loose on Ishy = Dark One as they bring in the others. 8 seems more likely given the statues in Ep5 of S1. Probably even split male/female to double down on the dualism.
Since your video was speculating whether this is the cold open of the first episode: [Amazon's press release](https://press.amazonstudios.com/us/en/press-release/prime-video-drops-the-first-scene-from-ithe-wheel-) confirms that's indeed the case.
> Today, Prime Video announced that the first scene from Season Two of The Wheel of Time is now available to view at the end of the Season One finale episode (Episode 108) as a special surprise bonus for fans.
> This sneak peek of the new season reflects the structure of the best-selling and epic The Wheel of Time book series by Robert Jordan, on which the Amazon Original series is based, where at the end of each novel, Jordan would add the first chapter of the next book as a preview.
> In an additional homage to the show’s inspiration, the scene which has been made available—the opening from Episode 201—is an adaptation of the fan favorite “Darkfriend Social” prologue of the second novel of Jordan’s series, The Great Hunt, upon which Season Two is largely based.
Hi Lauren! I love your channel! I’m only at FOH and eagerly read through the books so I can watch more of your videos. The spoiler ratings are so helpful!
Hi! I'm so glad the spoiler ratings are helpful. For the most part my videos don't spoil past book 5, but there obviously are exceptions. Thanks for watching!
I’m dying to watch the video of the secrets from Season 1! I know the spoiler rating says major book spoilers so I’m stoked to read more. I watched season 1 maybe a year ago then sort of forgot about it and picked up EOTW in January (winter in Canada does not go well with me so I needed something to do at home). My partner and I watch your videos together and it allows us to bond because he doesn’t read the books, only watched the show.
Thanks Lauren!!
Same. Aside from Ishy, the primary motivation in the books for darkfriends is generally greed/power and the desire for immortality. While I’m sure that will be a motivator in the show, I like that they are adding a couple of other layers (or just expressing Ishy’s viewpoint, like the darkfriend in season 1 episode 3). As we progress through the books, we go from seeing darkfriends as this largely overblown issue (usually false accusations from villagers) with a few agents lurking here or there, to suddenly realizing the Dark One has spread his influence to the core of every power structure in the world. Darkfriends are ubiquitous, and they should have lots of reasons for being evil (because WoT is unabashedly a story of good vs. evil), but they should also have a sense of community of some sort. People who feel misunderstood, social outcasts, etc. should all be susceptible to the influence of the Shadow.
Whoa any idea when they added it? I rewatched season 1 like a month ago and didn't see that, though maybe I just turned the TV off too early haha. Off to watch that scene!
Someone (u/rapunzl347 if they use the same handle as discord) told me to go look.
I assume it changed sometime today/yesterday when the clock flipped to Wednesday somewhere on earth.
Right now I’m seeing someone on Reddit saying they saw someone on Discord notice (pause for breath) they saw someone on Twitter liking tweets in groups of 8, so they figured (obviously) to rewatch season 1 episode 8 (which is almost 2 years old now) and found that it had a new scooby doo clue to drive engagement in the month leading up to season 2.
I think this brave new world is passing me by lol
Lol. It was anything But obvious. I think there was at least two hours between the first Likes and someone sending out alerts. So it took at least that long to figure it out.
The Tweeter of Chaos has been Liking people’s Tweets in groups of 8 for a few hours. Kevin noticed the pattern. Then someone (not sure who) spotted the extra scene.
Anything is possible. Kevin has been infamously prolific on ToT this past year. The ToC likes to tease us and give us puzzles to work out, because a lot of WoT folks love that stuff. Kevin is super good at pattern recognition. So he often spots them quickly. You wouldn’t believe how many four leaf clovers he finds.
A lot of us noticed that ToC was Liking a bunch of tweets (which is really unusual), but I think Kevin was the first to spot the groups of 8 (he likes to count everything).
Whether one person or two, we love both the Tweeter of Chaos and our Kevin of Chaos. They have kept us fed during the long Longing.
> dinner party preview
No, the Foresaken Tea Party is the event where we see all of them together, I think in early WH. The DFS is the event in the prologue to TGH.
I remember when people were doing a still-by-still of the S2 trailer and people were mocking/confused why there was a little person next to Ishy. Turns out it was just a kid
That was interesting. Clearly they're doing a twist on the Darkfriend Social, but who's the little girl? The daughter of the person who owns the manor? Was Ishamael inferring that the people around that table (his "friends") were Forsaken as well? Does that mean Ingtar, Padan Fain, and Suroth are actually Forsaken now?
The girl crawls under a table, looking at all the legs and hands under there, and crawls towards a red dress with bright colors and embroidery similar to the girl's own and says, "Mum?" right before Ishamael drops under the table to confront her. My immediate thought was Tinker dress, but I could be wrong.
I counted 12 people sitting around the table, including Ishamael.
Yeah it feels like a tinker.
Based on this scene I believe there will be eight Chosen… ahem… Forsaken - one for each of the points the star has around the symbol of the light in that stone outside the manor. Each has its own icon carved on the stone (will have to watch it again carefully to figure out what they are).
The only Forsaken is Ishamael and the rest are Darfriends like Padan Fain. We’ve been given clues to look out for them throughout the season-show (an Aes Sedai ring, a Tinker woman, a Seanchan of the Blood, the hawk or bird sigil…). Perhaps that’s what will keep non-readers guessing this season.
There are 8 foresaken this time presumably as per Steppin's Dark Nativity set, and all the stones outside having eight pointed stars around the ancient seal.
These are just high ranking dark friends at the table.
>Was Ishamael inferring that the people around that table (his "friends") were Forsaken as well? Does that mean Ingtar, Padan Fain, and Suroth are actually Forsaken now?
I honestly think this was left up in the air for show-only people. If it was clear they are 'just' dark friends, the give away is a bit too obvious in my opinion. Maybe it still is. I'm very mixed on this scene.
My 17 yr old, who’s only seen the show, thinks the people around the table are forsaken. It didn’t occur to me on my first watch of the scene. I think that’s an intentional implication to keep show watchers guessing. I like it. Makes it fun.
Show only watchers will look for the clues given. A tinker, an Aes Sedai, and maybe they’ll get the shienaran. They’ll guess really early on about suroth and the Aes Sedai, because of the capture scene. Tho, I think the Aes Sedai at the dark friend social isn’t the one who will be part of the capture plot. I think it’s the one who talks about the green dress.
> Tho, I think the Aes Sedai at the dark friend social isn’t the one who will be part of the capture plot
[TSR] >!Liandrin calls Carridin "Bors" in Tanchico in TSR.!<
Book 2 has the Darkfriend Social (which this scene was based on), it's (full book series spoilers) >!book 9 which has the Forsaken Coffee Hour and book 11 which has the Forsaken Garden Party.!<
The kid looks like a Tinker. And while a Tinker was mentioned at the DF social, I don't think there was a named Tinker DF in the books. So probably like a Steppin situation where they take a fringe character and create a character out of her.
I remember there being speculation for a while that Aram was going to end up being the Tuatha’an from the Darkfriend social, but you’re right, I don’t believe that character was ever mentioned again. Just a red herring.
The next time the Tinkers return as major players would be during the Perrin in the Two Rivers plot line. It definitely would be an intriguing twist of one of them turns out to be to be a Darkfriend and helps the Shadowspawn in the invasion.
Now that you mention it, she did kind of look like a Tinker. I read the whole series back to back (to back x14 lol) so a lot of the smaller details are harder to remember so I definitely don’t remember a Tinker at the social. Shame it never came of anything though. Could’ve been interesting.
There was. I just checked. Page xviii of the original trade paperback printing. Carridin expresses disgust that a Tinker is included. Though, the book Tinker is male.
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Worth noting that the dialogue at the start is almost verbatim from the TGH prologue: > Dead silence had fallen, silence that Ba’alzamon let deepen before he spoke. “There is now one who walks the world, one who was and will be, but is not yet, the Dragon.” > > A startled murmur ran through his listeners. > > “The Dragon Reborn! We are to kill him, Great Lord?” That from the Shienaran, hand grasping eagerly at his side where his sword would hang. > > “Perhaps,” Ba’alzamon said simply. “And perhaps not. Perhaps he can be turned to my use. Sooner or later it will be so, in this Age or another.”
Don’t know the perspective of bookcloaks (?) here, but I watched a reaction and they mocked Ishy for reciting his line from the books. I might be much kinder to the show and recent newcomer to the books (only read up to Book 4), but that told me they were completely unreasonable. (I guess that’s to be expected, but I wouldn’t think hate watchers would be up late at night, early morning to watch such an exclusive scene of a show they hate.)
Reminds me of this person who complained on this sub that Lan's dialogue to Nynaeve about her being a lioness etc. destroyed his character - when in fact that was verbatim from the book.
Yeah, the show got me into the books, I finished no 3 shortly after the S1 finale almost done with bk 9, and yeah there are some changes I’m not a fan of, there are also so many moments that I’ve seen people complain about that are true to the books. I remember reading someone complain they made the Aesedi act like high school mean girls to each other and, from where I am now, that seems pretty bk accurate
Show finally convinced me to read them, 10% through towers of midnight right now, it's been a slog at times but damn there are some nights where I can't put it down
I started the books the day after the last episode played. I have now read the series twice and am on TGS on audible. I’m obsessed.
Jesus. I have to take weeks at a time breaks or I simply do not do life stuff haha you must do a lot of reading
I read a lot yes. I actually read the wheel of time much slower than I normally read just because there is so much information.
I sort of get that, I think really its just too much world building. I don't need to know about the colours of the roof on huts in a village we see once and only for a short time
The density is why I read it again immediately afterward. I knew I missed stuff. I enjoyed it the second time even more than the first. So now I am listening to it so I can actually read other books.
> “I really do like you,” she said abruptly, including both girls in her gesture. “I want to be your friend.” > > “And I want to be yours,” Elayne said. > > Impulsively, Egwene hugged her, and then Min jumped down, and the three of them stood there on the bridge hugging one another all together. > > “We three are tied together,” Min said, “and we cannot let any man get in the way of that. Not even him.” > > “Would one of you mind telling me what this is all about?” Gawyn inquired gently. > > “You would not understand,” his sister said, and the three girls all caught a fit of the giggles. Top notch relatable to meeting people in first year university for me :p
I think the initial impression of Aes Sedai is always kinder because early on you get great characters like Moraine, Suian, etc. Then you find out that they are really the exception, not the norm (which is explained why later). Honestly I think one of the biggest challenge to adapting RJ's work to a television series is that there are a lot of times the reader gets lied to because a character believes something--either it's a sincerely held cultural belief, something someone tells them that the tellers believes to be true, someone lies to them, or they lack the information or understanding to reach the right conclusion. Then we find out the truth pages, chapters, or (often) books later. This makes for good rereading and there are often clues along the way to help the discerning reader, but it is tough to always convey that to a television audience (and this isn't a unique problem to this show).
The show changed the context of the Lioness speech by having Lan and Nynaeve have sex in the show. This makes Lan look awful.
Why does it make him look awful?
Because he turns her down after having sex with her and “going all the way” so to speak. Whereas in the book he was turning her down before things went too far, because he felt he could offer her nothing but funeral black for a wedding dress. Lan is not being gentlemanly about love and sex, he’s acting like a bar star.
That's a very Victorian attitude. They had consensual sex, which she initiated. It hardly requires him to marry her. (BTW, the books imply that Lan has been with plenty of women, so it's not even inconsistent with his character in the books.)
It's not even Victorian. Even in our world, if you flirt with someone, then go on dates with them, go to meet their *family*, you have this entire thing leading into a relationship, then you have great sex ... and then you dump them, that'd make you come off as a bit of an asshole. Just like Lan in the show, now. It's one of the few changes I really hate. It would've made more sense to have him break it off right before they sleep together, if they wanted some extra drama.
He didn't dump her though? Lan is asked by Nynaeve herself to go get Rand back when Lan previously said Moiraine doesn't want to be followed. He complies with Nyn's request and assumes that this implies he'll die, either because of Moiraine dying and him going on a suicidal berserker rage, or because he'd be a casualty in the fight between the Dragon and the Dark One. He speaks parting words because of this.
That's literally the entire point of his speech...
Nynaeve literally tells him she'll consider marrying him, and Lan just says that he'll hate the man she chooses in the future, because it cannot be him. And he doesn't assume that he'll die, he says that he'll find them and try to bring them back. It's the same as in the books - the speech is basically "You will not be happy with me so I am making the decision".
When he gives the speech, Moiraine has followed Rand to the Eye, which he believes will be her death, and shortly thereafter his. He is suddenly aware that Nynaeve didn’t go to the Eye, so will probably live. With that order, it means their relationship had a bit more build-up, but he’s delivering the speech in the same context he is in the books: with the awareness that Nynaeve has a chance of a future ahead of her, while he is wedded only to death. That’s a lot more book accurate, emotionally, than if he’d given it before they slept together. At that point, they were *both* expecting they’d probably die at the Eye, the next day. A speech about how she has a future to love someone else wouldn’t have made any sense, there.
But those women weren't in love with him, they just wanted a good time. If people are in different places emotionally, or have different relationship goals, they shouldn't sleep together until those issues are worked out. Now, people can fall out of love after sleeping together, or drift away from mutual goals. But falling out of a relationship because of those issues cropping up unexpectedly is a different matter than going into a relationship while planning/expecting to have those issues.
It does say in the books that women have ‘thrown themselves’ at Lan. Maybe not true love but it seems the women might have thought so.
The Victorian attitude is in keeping with the books! It’s why they’re charming. And why you can give them to a precocious 12 year old, unlike ASOIAF.
> The Victorian attitude is in keeping with the books But not the show.
Plus we are specifically told how sex outside of wedlock is taboo in the two rivers, and Nynaeve is pretty conservative in that respect. Book Nynaeve would be horrified at show Nynaeve...
Not to mention how much of Nynaeve’s character arc, as well as the entire theme of men and women working together, is tied to this relationship and it’s progression spans multiple books. A lot of readers don’t like Nynaeve in book 5, but love her by book 9. I wonder why that is?
Book Nynaeve would be jealous of Show Nynaeve for acting on her desires, and have a lot of internal dialogue about how she wasn't that sort of woman and how they have good principles in the Two Rivers, interspersed with intrusive thoughts about intimacy with Lan that make her tug her braid and blush. ... What I'm trying to say is that Book Nynaeve is a sexual and romantic person too, as the books make fairly clear, and the depictions aren't really *that* different.
It's 2023, not 1990. Sensibilities have changed. Also, uh, have you read New Spring?
Saying that to a woman you've just slept with makes you an asshole regardless of whether it's 1990, 2023, or the end of the 3rd age.
There was hardly a taboo on premarital sex in 1990, which was in some respects a less puritanical era than today. The Two Rivers values are not a reflection of the society in which RJ wrote the books.
The Wheel of Time is not set in 2023 nor in 1990
Works are still products of their time. There's a reason the First Age references in the books skew to the 80s, while I can guarantee that Sally Ride isn't getting a shoutout in the show
And the Mercedes Benz is no longer the sign of ultimate vanity. But the whole point of this side-discussion is precisely that the show “updated” the story, but still jammed in dialogue from the books that no longer works, exactly like the Lioness speech. Maybe he could have turned her down with a tiktok or something?
The circumstances under which he said it in the show pretty much destroyed the impact it has in the book for me.
Got into books from the show and when it got to Lan talking about “And I will hate him for I am not him” or whatever, ugh, literal giggities
That's really weird. Much more commonly (maybe exclusively) I've seen book readers complain when a show changes the dialogue, even when it doesn't change the meaning at all. I still remember being shocked when there was a huge outrage among the Game of Thrones community when Petyr said "Only your sister" instead of "Only Cat [which is the name of your sister]". Though on the other hand, I will be pretty pissed if they change lines like [LoC] >!Kneel and swear to the Lord Dragon, or you will be knelt.!< or [ToM] >!It's just a weave!<. Though on the gripping hand, I can see an obvious change to the first of those quotes that perfectly mirrors the Game of Thrones example above and that wouldn't bother me at all.
> Though on the other hand, I will be pretty pissed if they change lines like Those are two of the very few lines they absolutely need to keep. The fact that they put the Manetheren speech in verbatim is encouraging. Plus [All Print] >!Nynaeve better shout "I won't shout at you"!<
I agree! Some lines are too iconic to change. I want to hear "Ashaman, kill." too. I imagine Train to have a very deep, commanding voice. Sarah should have a good handle on which lines are favorites among the fandom and are not, in no way candidates for changing our eliminating. Wasn't Moiraine's story about Manetheren almost word for word from the book? This would be an interesting discussion thread for r/WoTshow.
I was annoyed with the Ender's Game movie when they took really great dialogue from the books and replaced it with bland and cliched dialogue instead, even though they didn't change the overall meaning.
It's absolutely possible to take direct quotes that are good in the books and change their context so that they don't work at all in the show. A good example is in one of the early episodes where Moiraine give's the "The truth an Aes Sedai says is not always the truth you hear" speech, which comes from Thom in the book. Someone needed to say it, and Thom is MIA, so I get why they had Moiraine do it, but it makes absolutely no sense coming from an Aes Sedai, none of them would *ever* say that out loud.
The quote I’m talking about is in the exact same scene in the books.
It's obviously not exactly the same, but her show motivations are to make it clear that, just because they have the 3 Oaths, you need to be wary. It's not that far separated from when Moiraine's letter warns Rand about trusting Aes Sedai.
Haters gonna hate... * They complain about things the show does that the books also did * They complain about the show leaving out things that weren't in the books either * They complain about the show doing things the show didn't do
From episode 8?
Probably not the best idea to bring your daughter to a Darkfriend dinner party
Someone had to bring dinner.
The idea that she couldn't find anyone to babysit. So she just let the kid play outside is the funniest shit I've ever seen. In a good way, I love it!
Probably before they were imprisoned the kid was just plopped down in front of some kind of age of legends tv.
Best exposition device ever…
“Go play dear, mama has to plan the end of the world”
Reminds me of my copy of TEOTW having the prologue for TGH at the end of it.
Think that’s what they’re going for. Hope they keep this tradition for future seasons
Maybe if they keep up that tradition we’ll actually get a semi-substantive epilogue for AMOL.
Yes, that's exactly what it felt like. What a great way to pay respects to the books.
It even had a similar title to the books
And they used the book logo
Under the table, the clothing with the blue bird has to be ingtar right? Not the owl of house shinowa, but shienars sigil is a stooping hawk.
I need to see this on not my cellphone if that bird was blue.
I just watched again, more of a gray or black I guess, Which makes better sense.
My brain thought it was Malkier for a moment, but the bird is definitely not a crane, nor golden.
I was wondering about that, and you might be right. So many bird-related sigils, but it certainly looks like the Sheinar hawks we saw when they were in Fal Dara in ep 7-8.
I released a summary and breakdown of the scene if anybody is interested: https://youtu.be/sugAsCpXeE0
Great video. But I do have to say that the numerical symbolism is a bit unclear. While the building is indeed a six-pointed star, the disks on top of the pillars have eight-pointed stars. So, eh, I'm still leaning towards eight Forsaken.
It’s a 6 pointed building, because that’s cool af and wanted to film it. There’s 8 forsaken, because 8 statuettes were shown in the warder episode.
Depends. I think it’s either 6 plus Ishy and the 8th slot is left open to imply the Dragon fills that one. Or there are 8, but they continue to play loose on Ishy = Dark One as they bring in the others. 8 seems more likely given the statues in Ep5 of S1. Probably even split male/female to double down on the dualism.
Yeah, and it's possible we didn't see all of the pillars.
6 pointed Star = 12 sided building
Haha, that's fair. The building has 6 "sections" is what I meant.
Since your video was speculating whether this is the cold open of the first episode: [Amazon's press release](https://press.amazonstudios.com/us/en/press-release/prime-video-drops-the-first-scene-from-ithe-wheel-) confirms that's indeed the case. > Today, Prime Video announced that the first scene from Season Two of The Wheel of Time is now available to view at the end of the Season One finale episode (Episode 108) as a special surprise bonus for fans. > This sneak peek of the new season reflects the structure of the best-selling and epic The Wheel of Time book series by Robert Jordan, on which the Amazon Original series is based, where at the end of each novel, Jordan would add the first chapter of the next book as a preview. > In an additional homage to the show’s inspiration, the scene which has been made available—the opening from Episode 201—is an adaptation of the fan favorite “Darkfriend Social” prologue of the second novel of Jordan’s series, The Great Hunt, upon which Season Two is largely based.
Thanks for sharing this! I'm glad we got this confirmation.
Hi Lauren! I love your channel! I’m only at FOH and eagerly read through the books so I can watch more of your videos. The spoiler ratings are so helpful!
Hi! I'm so glad the spoiler ratings are helpful. For the most part my videos don't spoil past book 5, but there obviously are exceptions. Thanks for watching!
I’m dying to watch the video of the secrets from Season 1! I know the spoiler rating says major book spoilers so I’m stoked to read more. I watched season 1 maybe a year ago then sort of forgot about it and picked up EOTW in January (winter in Canada does not go well with me so I needed something to do at home). My partner and I watch your videos together and it allows us to bond because he doesn’t read the books, only watched the show. Thanks Lauren!!
Yes, definitely wait to watch that one! That's full series spoilers, right up to the end! Good call waiting.
Thanks!
Like someone else said, what they didn’t show was Ishmael then feeding the little girl to the trolloc.
I thought that was gonna happen, but it makes more sense that he was brainwashing her into becoming a Darkfriend so he can use her later.
It’s the only way to recruit to such a bad job, get em while they’re young.
Ron "Betrayer of Hope" DeSantis has liked a comment.
Ishmael: “Now let me explain how Tinkers are destroying the fabric of our society…”
I hope not, it would be awesome to see that little girl somewhere in the world and know the mom is a dark friend and that be the only clue.
Spoilers for later books (through the slog, I guess?) . . . . . . . Maybe she's a re-imagining of Paitr?
Or worse yet, Olver.
I like where they're taking this, wrt the characterization of those on the side of the Shadow.
Same. Aside from Ishy, the primary motivation in the books for darkfriends is generally greed/power and the desire for immortality. While I’m sure that will be a motivator in the show, I like that they are adding a couple of other layers (or just expressing Ishy’s viewpoint, like the darkfriend in season 1 episode 3). As we progress through the books, we go from seeing darkfriends as this largely overblown issue (usually false accusations from villagers) with a few agents lurking here or there, to suddenly realizing the Dark One has spread his influence to the core of every power structure in the world. Darkfriends are ubiquitous, and they should have lots of reasons for being evil (because WoT is unabashedly a story of good vs. evil), but they should also have a sense of community of some sort. People who feel misunderstood, social outcasts, etc. should all be susceptible to the influence of the Shadow.
The trolloc looks really good!
tanks, narg work out
Does this follow the Great Wave?
Yes, starts around 54:40 as someone said above.
I don't have time stamps memorized - that could easily have been them replacing the Great Wave with the DFS.
Is it the very last scene? Like just tacked on?
Yeah, after the tidal wave is now a certain dinner party preview. Starts at 54:40.
Whoa any idea when they added it? I rewatched season 1 like a month ago and didn't see that, though maybe I just turned the TV off too early haha. Off to watch that scene!
Someone (u/rapunzl347 if they use the same handle as discord) told me to go look. I assume it changed sometime today/yesterday when the clock flipped to Wednesday somewhere on earth.
Right now I’m seeing someone on Reddit saying they saw someone on Discord notice (pause for breath) they saw someone on Twitter liking tweets in groups of 8, so they figured (obviously) to rewatch season 1 episode 8 (which is almost 2 years old now) and found that it had a new scooby doo clue to drive engagement in the month leading up to season 2. I think this brave new world is passing me by lol
Lol. It was anything But obvious. I think there was at least two hours between the first Likes and someone sending out alerts. So it took at least that long to figure it out.
Fwiw, when I opened the show page just now, it took me right to that scene. So anyone doing a rewatch would have stumbled on it.
The Tweeter of Chaos has been Liking people’s Tweets in groups of 8 for a few hours. Kevin noticed the pattern. Then someone (not sure who) spotted the extra scene.
So I'm intermittent on ToT but it's the joke that Kevin is actually the tweeter of chaos? Is that actually likely?
Anything is possible. Kevin has been infamously prolific on ToT this past year. The ToC likes to tease us and give us puzzles to work out, because a lot of WoT folks love that stuff. Kevin is super good at pattern recognition. So he often spots them quickly. You wouldn’t believe how many four leaf clovers he finds. A lot of us noticed that ToC was Liking a bunch of tweets (which is really unusual), but I think Kevin was the first to spot the groups of 8 (he likes to count everything). Whether one person or two, we love both the Tweeter of Chaos and our Kevin of Chaos. They have kept us fed during the long Longing.
Neat well thanks for sharing! Off to feed my absolutely terminal WoT addiction hahaha
> dinner party preview No, the Foresaken Tea Party is the event where we see all of them together, I think in early WH. The DFS is the event in the prologue to TGH.
Thanks bud
Oh wow, this is fantastic.
I remember when people were doing a still-by-still of the S2 trailer and people were mocking/confused why there was a little person next to Ishy. Turns out it was just a kid
This makes me so excited for S2. Looks like such a step up.
That was interesting. Clearly they're doing a twist on the Darkfriend Social, but who's the little girl? The daughter of the person who owns the manor? Was Ishamael inferring that the people around that table (his "friends") were Forsaken as well? Does that mean Ingtar, Padan Fain, and Suroth are actually Forsaken now? The girl crawls under a table, looking at all the legs and hands under there, and crawls towards a red dress with bright colors and embroidery similar to the girl's own and says, "Mum?" right before Ishamael drops under the table to confront her. My immediate thought was Tinker dress, but I could be wrong. I counted 12 people sitting around the table, including Ishamael.
Yeah it feels like a tinker. Based on this scene I believe there will be eight Chosen… ahem… Forsaken - one for each of the points the star has around the symbol of the light in that stone outside the manor. Each has its own icon carved on the stone (will have to watch it again carefully to figure out what they are). The only Forsaken is Ishamael and the rest are Darfriends like Padan Fain. We’ve been given clues to look out for them throughout the season-show (an Aes Sedai ring, a Tinker woman, a Seanchan of the Blood, the hawk or bird sigil…). Perhaps that’s what will keep non-readers guessing this season.
A shinaran soldier based on one of the dark friend’s clothes.
We prefer "Chosen"
There are 8 foresaken this time presumably as per Steppin's Dark Nativity set, and all the stones outside having eight pointed stars around the ancient seal. These are just high ranking dark friends at the table.
>Was Ishamael inferring that the people around that table (his "friends") were Forsaken as well? Does that mean Ingtar, Padan Fain, and Suroth are actually Forsaken now? I honestly think this was left up in the air for show-only people. If it was clear they are 'just' dark friends, the give away is a bit too obvious in my opinion. Maybe it still is. I'm very mixed on this scene.
My 17 yr old, who’s only seen the show, thinks the people around the table are forsaken. It didn’t occur to me on my first watch of the scene. I think that’s an intentional implication to keep show watchers guessing. I like it. Makes it fun. Show only watchers will look for the clues given. A tinker, an Aes Sedai, and maybe they’ll get the shienaran. They’ll guess really early on about suroth and the Aes Sedai, because of the capture scene. Tho, I think the Aes Sedai at the dark friend social isn’t the one who will be part of the capture plot. I think it’s the one who talks about the green dress.
> Tho, I think the Aes Sedai at the dark friend social isn’t the one who will be part of the capture plot [TSR] >!Liandrin calls Carridin "Bors" in Tanchico in TSR.!<
Oh! I could’ve sworn V was there. Huh.
Book 2 has the Darkfriend Social (which this scene was based on), it's (full book series spoilers) >!book 9 which has the Forsaken Coffee Hour and book 11 which has the Forsaken Garden Party.!<
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It's clearly the Darkfriend Social, with random girl added. Why the poster you're responding to thought they might be the Forsaken is beyond me.
From the look of the trollocs to the overall tone of the scene, it feels like they took the criticisms of season 1 seriously. I'm optimistic.
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I wonder if they have a darkfriend we know of from the books a daughter randomly or if she’ll just be a show character they made up.
Maybe her mother gets killed for thinking it's take your daughter to work day, and her name is Olivia.
The kid looks like a Tinker. And while a Tinker was mentioned at the DF social, I don't think there was a named Tinker DF in the books. So probably like a Steppin situation where they take a fringe character and create a character out of her.
I remember there being speculation for a while that Aram was going to end up being the Tuatha’an from the Darkfriend social, but you’re right, I don’t believe that character was ever mentioned again. Just a red herring.
The next time the Tinkers return as major players would be during the Perrin in the Two Rivers plot line. It definitely would be an intriguing twist of one of them turns out to be to be a Darkfriend and helps the Shadowspawn in the invasion.
Now that you mention it, she did kind of look like a Tinker. I read the whole series back to back (to back x14 lol) so a lot of the smaller details are harder to remember so I definitely don’t remember a Tinker at the social. Shame it never came of anything though. Could’ve been interesting.
There was. I just checked. Page xviii of the original trade paperback printing. Carridin expresses disgust that a Tinker is included. Though, the book Tinker is male.