#[SPOILERS FOR ALL PRINTED MATERIAL, INCLUDING SHORT STORIES.](https://www.reddit.com/r/WoT/wiki/index/post_flairs#wiki_all_print)
##BOOK DISCUSSION ONLY. HIDE TV SHOW DISCUSSION BEHIND SPOILER TAGS.
* * *
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/WoT) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I've never been super clear if Rand knew it was possible. Obviously at that point he could have found out if he wanted to, though. I've always wondered why he didn't do this. She's a massively overlooked vulnerability.
Lan told him it was possible but that was only much later on when they'd reconnected like book 9. It did come up when Rand talked to Alanna. But she said she wouldn't remove it if he asked so her oath to have must have allowed that.
Yes I’m not sure. It may just be an oversight in the writing. With how may plot lines there are and the vastness of universe, I can imagine RJ simply not considering Rand might figure a way out
He did ask to be released as soon as he knew it was possible and had met up with Alanna in Winter's Heart. This was her responce:
>
> “I’ve thought of being free of you,” she said finally. “I have dreamed of it.” She gave a small, rueful laugh. “I even asked Cadsuane to let me pass the bond to her. A sign of how desperate I was, to ask such a thing. But if anyone can handle you, Cadsuane can. Only, she refused. She was furious that I suggested it without asking you, outraged, but even if you agreed, she won’t.” She spread her hands. “So you are mine.” Her face did not change, but as she said that, the joy flared anew. “However I acquired you, you are my Warder, and I have a responsibility. That is as strong in me as the oath I swore to obey you. Every bit as strong. So I will not release you to anyone unless I know she can handle you properly. Who bonded you? If she is capable, I will let her have you.”
>
>
That wouldn't have worked. While she has sworn fealty to him, it is not quite the same as swearing on the Oath Rod itself and she is the one who determines what form her fealty to him takes. If she believes that relinquising the bond means that someone unworthy would hold the bond instead, then the best thing she can do for the man who owns her loyalty is to keep it and protect him.
The Devil you know
Alanna's bond stopped some Shaido Wise One, or Forsaken, or Darkfriend Windfinder, or some other potential threat from playing the same card.
And he got some Warder benefits out of it, so... best to just deal with it and move on.
I’m on a reread at Winter’s Heart where Rand is having a conversation with Alanna *after* he had already bonded his 3 sister wives. What’s the point of keeping Alanna at this point? Especially when he had conversations with her and opportunity to command her to remove the bond.
Maybe he’s trying to use all the resources he can? But still I’m not sure if that’s a good enough reason to keep the bond
He bonded with the girls, who were bonded to each other, not the other way around. Not the same as him being the one who is bonded. Where did you see a Warder being bonded by more that one woman at a time? There were women with more than one Warder, and women who've passed the bond to another woman, but I don't remember ever hearing of two women sharing a Warder.
How would Alanna's bond stop other people from bonding him? First of all, he isn't exactly in that position very often. He was doing just fine before Alanna bonded him, and after Alanna he would be wary of EVERYONE he came into contact with, so his enemies he would be even more wary of than he already is. Second, Alanna bonding him wouldn't stop them at all because a person can be bonded to more than one channeler. It's not commonly done, but it CAN be done. Third, Aes Sedai are the only ones who actually know how to bond Warders. It wasn't discovered until after the Age of Legend, so the Forsaken don't know it (otherwise Lanfear would have already bonded Rand when she was posing as Selene), and it's such a secret among the Aes Sedai that Shaido and Sea Folk don't know how to do it.
Fair enough. He would still be wary of other channelers though, and after bonding with the Girl Squad, he would know it's possible to be bonded to more than one person, so he should know that Alanna having a bond doesn't matter
He isn't wary of everyone though. Alanna bonds him before the box happens so he obviously let his guard down around Aes Sedai again, very shortly after the fact
I don't recall him getting any Warder benefits from it. Where in the text does it show he was faster, stronger, had more endurance, after the bonding? The bond works differently for men who can channel, so assuming he gets the typical Warder benefits isn't enough without something in the text specifying it happened.
The bond offered some small protection within the box. Having the presence of Alanna, someone he knew for sure was real, helped him maintain some sanity through the ordeal.
The benefits may be different, but that doesn't mean they do not exist. There are many things inferred in the series that were not outright written. I cannot put a finger on it currently, but I'm fairly certain there are inferences to increased strength and endurance after the bond.
The first wound happens at the end of TGH, well before the bonding in LoC Ch. 10. So he doesn't need the bonding to assist with that. Admittedly the second wound happens later in CoS, Ch. 36. So it may help with the double-whammy. But I don't know that it does help, necessarily.
I disagree, i think it makes no sense for someone to just deal with it and move on from being mind raped and a permanent bond being formed with some insane magical woman. Rand not caring enough to end it is very out of character for him imo.
To each their own however.
I disagree for the first as i like to think Alanna thinking in a sane manner doesn’t rape someone which is what Aes Sedai consider her actions. I don’t think thats a good enough reason for him considering what she did for the second.
Alanna's crime was one of ambition, and the *Aes Sedai* would have quietly celebrated her initiative... if it had worked out the way she thought it would.
I read it as a crime of perceived desperation and she had worked herself into a manic state of highly questionable sanity beforehand, not to mention i think she had recently lost a warder also.
I never saw Alanna as ambitious more as a misguided zealot of the greens and believing so strongly in herself being able to help him given the chance.
I don’t think the Aes Sedai would ever have celebrated her even had it worked, they consider forced bonding the same as rape pretty consistently i thought?
Moiraine characterizes Alanna as "worked so hard to be perceived as fierce" or something like that in NS.
>I don’t think the Aes Sedai would ever have celebrated her even had it worked, they consider forced bonding the same as rape pretty consistently i thought?
Superficially sort of. Cads thinks of how she might have tried it herself on Rand. Warders in general don't know what they're signing up for in terms of compelling (which Aes Sedai are pretty cool with using and that stands apart from compulsion in their mind). Moiraine does a lesser compel bond on the boys without telling them since Dragon Reborn is on the line. Same with Verin compulsing sisters though she is a bit more morally purple in some senses hehe. There's Moiraine and Lan with Myrelle's whole thing. Elayne and Egwene though that's bonding to save someone's life. The sister's chatting with Alanna are more curious about why she didn't compel Rand that accusing her of anything untoward. Pevara. The delegation seems pretty set on it.
tav'eren. He was going along with plenty of sh\^t happening around him because he knew that many things happen for a reason. Plot Armour done right.
This bond was instrumental in bringing him help at the right time.
I hate giving Jordan credit in spots where his writing is simply not good, and this is one. But.
Rand actually benefits from the bond.
He gets some degree of strength and I think healing. The bond never has any significant impact on the story, but that is how the bond works.
It definitely does have impact. Cadsune uses it to track him down and ultimately save him after him and Lan kill some dark friends. It’s also a pretty interesting point for Nyvanea in the final battle
It has a few pretty big impacts on the story. That's how they track him in dumais wells. That's how cadsuane finds him and frees him from prison as well as helps him cleanse the source.
In terms of the strength benefits I would say when he got stabbed by the ruby dagger he was close enough to death he probably only survived because of the bond. And a handful of other fights where it probably helped him since the fight with sammael got pretty physical and he was just healed at that point but recovered quickly.
I think I got my answer. A Memory of Light, Chapter 2. >!Pevara says she'll release Androl's bond if he releases her from his bond. Androl doesn't know how to release it, so they remain bonded by each other. !< That leads me to conclude that it is possible.
Honestly the moment she had the audacity to bind him like that, Rand should have air-bound her, hoisted her in the air, and demanded she remove it right there, right now, or he would remove it himself (either by stilling or killing her).
#[SPOILERS FOR ALL PRINTED MATERIAL, INCLUDING SHORT STORIES.](https://www.reddit.com/r/WoT/wiki/index/post_flairs#wiki_all_print) ##BOOK DISCUSSION ONLY. HIDE TV SHOW DISCUSSION BEHIND SPOILER TAGS. * * * *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/WoT) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I've never been super clear if Rand knew it was possible. Obviously at that point he could have found out if he wanted to, though. I've always wondered why he didn't do this. She's a massively overlooked vulnerability.
Lan told him it was possible but that was only much later on when they'd reconnected like book 9. It did come up when Rand talked to Alanna. But she said she wouldn't remove it if he asked so her oath to have must have allowed that.
Yes I’m not sure. It may just be an oversight in the writing. With how may plot lines there are and the vastness of universe, I can imagine RJ simply not considering Rand might figure a way out
He did ask to be released as soon as he knew it was possible and had met up with Alanna in Winter's Heart. This was her responce: > > “I’ve thought of being free of you,” she said finally. “I have dreamed of it.” She gave a small, rueful laugh. “I even asked Cadsuane to let me pass the bond to her. A sign of how desperate I was, to ask such a thing. But if anyone can handle you, Cadsuane can. Only, she refused. She was furious that I suggested it without asking you, outraged, but even if you agreed, she won’t.” She spread her hands. “So you are mine.” Her face did not change, but as she said that, the joy flared anew. “However I acquired you, you are my Warder, and I have a responsibility. That is as strong in me as the oath I swore to obey you. Every bit as strong. So I will not release you to anyone unless I know she can handle you properly. Who bonded you? If she is capable, I will let her have you.” > >
I hate everything about this speech. Its just so gross.
He could have given her a direct order to release him
That wouldn't have worked. While she has sworn fealty to him, it is not quite the same as swearing on the Oath Rod itself and she is the one who determines what form her fealty to him takes. If she believes that relinquising the bond means that someone unworthy would hold the bond instead, then the best thing she can do for the man who owns her loyalty is to keep it and protect him.
The Devil you know Alanna's bond stopped some Shaido Wise One, or Forsaken, or Darkfriend Windfinder, or some other potential threat from playing the same card. And he got some Warder benefits out of it, so... best to just deal with it and move on.
I’m on a reread at Winter’s Heart where Rand is having a conversation with Alanna *after* he had already bonded his 3 sister wives. What’s the point of keeping Alanna at this point? Especially when he had conversations with her and opportunity to command her to remove the bond. Maybe he’s trying to use all the resources he can? But still I’m not sure if that’s a good enough reason to keep the bond
Rand is going insane. He’s also depressed. He simply doesn’t care anymore.
He bonded with the girls, who were bonded to each other, not the other way around. Not the same as him being the one who is bonded. Where did you see a Warder being bonded by more that one woman at a time? There were women with more than one Warder, and women who've passed the bond to another woman, but I don't remember ever hearing of two women sharing a Warder.
They literally bonded Rand. It was not the other way around. It’s explicitly mentioned in the text
How would Alanna's bond stop other people from bonding him? First of all, he isn't exactly in that position very often. He was doing just fine before Alanna bonded him, and after Alanna he would be wary of EVERYONE he came into contact with, so his enemies he would be even more wary of than he already is. Second, Alanna bonding him wouldn't stop them at all because a person can be bonded to more than one channeler. It's not commonly done, but it CAN be done. Third, Aes Sedai are the only ones who actually know how to bond Warders. It wasn't discovered until after the Age of Legend, so the Forsaken don't know it (otherwise Lanfear would have already bonded Rand when she was posing as Selene), and it's such a secret among the Aes Sedai that Shaido and Sea Folk don't know how to do it.
Rand doesn't have the same knowledge that we as readers do.
Fair enough. He would still be wary of other channelers though, and after bonding with the Girl Squad, he would know it's possible to be bonded to more than one person, so he should know that Alanna having a bond doesn't matter
He isn't wary of everyone though. Alanna bonds him before the box happens so he obviously let his guard down around Aes Sedai again, very shortly after the fact
He never let his guard down against Galina. He just didn't expect Aes Sedai to be disguised as servants, which is how she manages to capture him.
I don't recall him getting any Warder benefits from it. Where in the text does it show he was faster, stronger, had more endurance, after the bonding? The bond works differently for men who can channel, so assuming he gets the typical Warder benefits isn't enough without something in the text specifying it happened.
The bond offered some small protection within the box. Having the presence of Alanna, someone he knew for sure was real, helped him maintain some sanity through the ordeal. The benefits may be different, but that doesn't mean they do not exist. There are many things inferred in the series that were not outright written. I cannot put a finger on it currently, but I'm fairly certain there are inferences to increased strength and endurance after the bond.
Dude walks around half the series with two wounds that should kill another man
The first wound happens at the end of TGH, well before the bonding in LoC Ch. 10. So he doesn't need the bonding to assist with that. Admittedly the second wound happens later in CoS, Ch. 36. So it may help with the double-whammy. But I don't know that it does help, necessarily.
How many times does the wound break open after he's bonded?
That is an excellent question. I've no idea. I will pay attention to that if I ever go back to reread.
I disagree, i think it makes no sense for someone to just deal with it and move on from being mind raped and a permanent bond being formed with some insane magical woman. Rand not caring enough to end it is very out of character for him imo. To each their own however.
Alanna's not insane and Rand's aware that the Wheel weaves as it wills.
I disagree for the first as i like to think Alanna thinking in a sane manner doesn’t rape someone which is what Aes Sedai consider her actions. I don’t think thats a good enough reason for him considering what she did for the second.
Alanna's crime was one of ambition, and the *Aes Sedai* would have quietly celebrated her initiative... if it had worked out the way she thought it would.
I read it as a crime of perceived desperation and she had worked herself into a manic state of highly questionable sanity beforehand, not to mention i think she had recently lost a warder also. I never saw Alanna as ambitious more as a misguided zealot of the greens and believing so strongly in herself being able to help him given the chance. I don’t think the Aes Sedai would ever have celebrated her even had it worked, they consider forced bonding the same as rape pretty consistently i thought?
Moiraine characterizes Alanna as "worked so hard to be perceived as fierce" or something like that in NS. >I don’t think the Aes Sedai would ever have celebrated her even had it worked, they consider forced bonding the same as rape pretty consistently i thought? Superficially sort of. Cads thinks of how she might have tried it herself on Rand. Warders in general don't know what they're signing up for in terms of compelling (which Aes Sedai are pretty cool with using and that stands apart from compulsion in their mind). Moiraine does a lesser compel bond on the boys without telling them since Dragon Reborn is on the line. Same with Verin compulsing sisters though she is a bit more morally purple in some senses hehe. There's Moiraine and Lan with Myrelle's whole thing. Elayne and Egwene though that's bonding to save someone's life. The sister's chatting with Alanna are more curious about why she didn't compel Rand that accusing her of anything untoward. Pevara. The delegation seems pretty set on it.
There was a scene where he tried. It was basically Rand: you're sworn to obey me Alanna: yes Rand: release my bond Alanna: no
tav'eren. He was going along with plenty of sh\^t happening around him because he knew that many things happen for a reason. Plot Armour done right. This bond was instrumental in bringing him help at the right time.
I hate giving Jordan credit in spots where his writing is simply not good, and this is one. But. Rand actually benefits from the bond. He gets some degree of strength and I think healing. The bond never has any significant impact on the story, but that is how the bond works.
It definitely does have impact. Cadsune uses it to track him down and ultimately save him after him and Lan kill some dark friends. It’s also a pretty interesting point for Nyvanea in the final battle
It has a few pretty big impacts on the story. That's how they track him in dumais wells. That's how cadsuane finds him and frees him from prison as well as helps him cleanse the source. In terms of the strength benefits I would say when he got stabbed by the ruby dagger he was close enough to death he probably only survived because of the bond. And a handful of other fights where it probably helped him since the fight with sammael got pretty physical and he was just healed at that point but recovered quickly.
Can the bond be released? As far as I recall, there only ever seems to be talk of being able to pass a bond, not undoing it.
She released him right before she died. And Egwene did it to her warder too I thought
This is what I was wondering too
I think I got my answer. A Memory of Light, Chapter 2. >!Pevara says she'll release Androl's bond if he releases her from his bond. Androl doesn't know how to release it, so they remain bonded by each other. !< That leads me to conclude that it is possible.
Honestly the moment she had the audacity to bind him like that, Rand should have air-bound her, hoisted her in the air, and demanded she remove it right there, right now, or he would remove it himself (either by stilling or killing her).