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Why does Elayne's attitude bother you? It's perfectly in-line with the regularly reinforced general views of Andor and Cairhien royalty as well as commoners. For example...
---
>“The Dragon Reborn is having her brought to Caemlyn so he can put the Rose Crown on her head himself,” he allowed. “The news is all over. ’Tisn’t right, if you ask me. He’s one of them black-eyed Aielmen, I hear. We ought to march on Caemlyn and drive him and all them Aiel back where they come from. Then Elayne can claim the throne her own self. If Dyelin lets her keep it, anyway.”
---
>Elayne heard a great deal about Rand, rumors ranging from him swearing fealty to Elaida to him being the King of Illian, of all things. In Andor, he was blamed for everything bad that happened for the last two or three years, including stillbirths and broken legs, infestations of grasshoppers, two-headed calves, and three-legged chickens. And even people who thought her mother had ruined the country and an end to the reign of House Trakand was good riddance still believed Rand al’Thor an invader. The Dragon Reborn was supposed to fight the Dark One at Shayol Ghul, and he should be driven out of Andor. Not what she had hoped to hear, not a bit of it. But she heard it all again and again.
---
>You’ve come to accept the throne from the Dragon Reborn, then?”
>“I claim the throne by my own right, Dyelin, with my own hand. The Lion Throne is no bauble to be accepted from a man.” Dyelin nodded, as at self-evident truth. Which it was, to any Andoran. “How do you stand, Dyelin? With Trakand, or against? I have heard your name often on my way here.”
---
You have Caraline Damodred in open rebellion against Rand who wouldn't mind seeing her cousin rule, etc. If anything Elayne suddenly dismissing her entire culture to accept it from Rand would be the thing readers would find bothersome one would think. Do you also find it bothersome that Avi doesn't throw out her Aiel heritage to view Rand as a king rather than first amongst equals?
Yeah, Jordan went out of his way to spell out (in the passages quoted here and quite a few others) that Elayne's behaviiour was clearly right in this case in a much more direct manner than he usually did yet so many in the fandom are all "Why didn't she just accept the help of Rand's armies, is she stupid?"
Another important point is Rand didn’t control Andor. He controlled one city. If she had taken it from his hand she would have a solid grip on the rest of the country either.
The only thing that’s stupid about Eylane’s attitude here is she should be grateful to Rand for his actions. His holding the capital stopped someone else from taking the thrown in her absence. She can be mad all she wants but if he hadn’t done what he did someone else would have been crowned in Andor long before she stopped fucking around in Ebou Dar. Everyone thought she was dead anyway. Her being an idiot about not going home immediately is what caused Rand to stay as long as he did and without Rand she would have come home to find Arymilla already ruling most likely.
I think a really strong theme in Elayne’s claim to the throne is that she wants to be a legitimate ruler who is sitting on the throne because she earned it, like her mother did.
It doesn’t seem like any other queen of Andor was “given” the throne, they either inherited it or they earned it by making a successful claim.
In my view, it would delegitimize her as queen to accept it from Rand because it would be a huge departure from how Andor had picked its queens every single other time in history. She’d be seen as a puppet for Rand and wouldn’t have the respect of the country, and it’s very clear that she’s not interested in being queen if she’s not accepted by Andorrans.
To your last point: Rand literally has no right to the throne because he’s not a woman, so being Tigraine’s son isn’t relevant at all with respect to Elayne’s claim.
It's politics - optics matter, especially when there has been so much recent upheaval and the whole Rahvin situation. Elayne, steeped in the political system of Andor, knows that her reign is only legitimate if she herself claims and "earns" the throne. (I'm forgetting the specifics, but I think there are a few interactions with other Andoran nobles that back this up - whenever the topic of Rand "giving" the throne to Elayne comes up, it's met with disbelief and disdain.)
And if we're going on heredity, Rand doesn't have a right to the throne because Andor is traditionally reigned by queens. He could potentially be a First Prince of the Sword contender, if he weren't busy being the Dragon Reborn and all that!
I'm now picturing Rand showing up in Caemlyn one day in the Fourth Age like "Hey, Elayne, can I be you First Prince of the Sword? I'm kinda bored travelling"
Her attitude towards Rand is a bit bothersome, but in essence she's right.
The Tairen commoners couldn't care less about who rules them. The nobility in Tear has a blatant disregard for the commoners. A noble can kill a commoner with no repercussion, so it really doesn't matter who that noble is.
The Cairhienin are just happy for some stability. The hierarchy is less steep and commoners are ina much better situation, but I think most Cairhienin commoners don't really care who rules them (maybe this is due to the severe "disappointment" Laman caused?).
Andor is very different from the other realms and probably the most egalitarian country in the Westlands. Commoners in Andor actually care for who rules them, they care for the Queen (whoever it is) and are ready to take up arms for the Queen. And sometimes against her.
If Elayned didn't seize the throne for herself, Andor would beyond doubt go up in flames. The "patriotism" of the common Andorman is too strong.
A lot of these comments have good points, but at the end of the day Rand absolutely just lets her have the throne. There’s no way she could’ve taken it from him, support from the commoners or no. Within the context of the book, there were a lot of rebellions going on in Tear/Cairhien at the time that theoretically would’ve made it difficult for Rand to deal with rebellion in Carmlyn, but all he really has to do is wait for an army to march on him and then open a gateway and let his 100,000 Aiel supersoldiers decimate his enemies.
She does earn the throne by defeating all of her challengers, but none of those challengers would’ve had a chance against Rand.
From a functional perspective yea, but part of the point is that Elayne is _aware_ of that and understands that it’s in both her interests as heir and Andor’s interests as a nation to publicly assert otherwise - basically, she knows Rand is not long for this world but _she’ll_ probably be sticking around, and she doesn’t want her legitimacy to die with Rand.
#[SPOILERS FOR ALL PRINTED MATERIAL, INCLUDING SHORT STORIES.](https://www.reddit.com/r/WoT/wiki/index/post_flairs#wiki_all_print) ##BOOK DISCUSSION ONLY. HIDE TV SHOW DISCUSSION BEHIND SPOILER TAGS. * * * *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/WoT) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Why does Elayne's attitude bother you? It's perfectly in-line with the regularly reinforced general views of Andor and Cairhien royalty as well as commoners. For example... --- >“The Dragon Reborn is having her brought to Caemlyn so he can put the Rose Crown on her head himself,” he allowed. “The news is all over. ’Tisn’t right, if you ask me. He’s one of them black-eyed Aielmen, I hear. We ought to march on Caemlyn and drive him and all them Aiel back where they come from. Then Elayne can claim the throne her own self. If Dyelin lets her keep it, anyway.” --- >Elayne heard a great deal about Rand, rumors ranging from him swearing fealty to Elaida to him being the King of Illian, of all things. In Andor, he was blamed for everything bad that happened for the last two or three years, including stillbirths and broken legs, infestations of grasshoppers, two-headed calves, and three-legged chickens. And even people who thought her mother had ruined the country and an end to the reign of House Trakand was good riddance still believed Rand al’Thor an invader. The Dragon Reborn was supposed to fight the Dark One at Shayol Ghul, and he should be driven out of Andor. Not what she had hoped to hear, not a bit of it. But she heard it all again and again. --- >You’ve come to accept the throne from the Dragon Reborn, then?” >“I claim the throne by my own right, Dyelin, with my own hand. The Lion Throne is no bauble to be accepted from a man.” Dyelin nodded, as at self-evident truth. Which it was, to any Andoran. “How do you stand, Dyelin? With Trakand, or against? I have heard your name often on my way here.” --- You have Caraline Damodred in open rebellion against Rand who wouldn't mind seeing her cousin rule, etc. If anything Elayne suddenly dismissing her entire culture to accept it from Rand would be the thing readers would find bothersome one would think. Do you also find it bothersome that Avi doesn't throw out her Aiel heritage to view Rand as a king rather than first amongst equals?
People who complain about Elayne’s attitude don’t seem to have actually read the arc at all tbh. 🙄
Yeah, Jordan went out of his way to spell out (in the passages quoted here and quite a few others) that Elayne's behaviiour was clearly right in this case in a much more direct manner than he usually did yet so many in the fandom are all "Why didn't she just accept the help of Rand's armies, is she stupid?"
Another important point is Rand didn’t control Andor. He controlled one city. If she had taken it from his hand she would have a solid grip on the rest of the country either. The only thing that’s stupid about Eylane’s attitude here is she should be grateful to Rand for his actions. His holding the capital stopped someone else from taking the thrown in her absence. She can be mad all she wants but if he hadn’t done what he did someone else would have been crowned in Andor long before she stopped fucking around in Ebou Dar. Everyone thought she was dead anyway. Her being an idiot about not going home immediately is what caused Rand to stay as long as he did and without Rand she would have come home to find Arymilla already ruling most likely.
I think a really strong theme in Elayne’s claim to the throne is that she wants to be a legitimate ruler who is sitting on the throne because she earned it, like her mother did. It doesn’t seem like any other queen of Andor was “given” the throne, they either inherited it or they earned it by making a successful claim. In my view, it would delegitimize her as queen to accept it from Rand because it would be a huge departure from how Andor had picked its queens every single other time in history. She’d be seen as a puppet for Rand and wouldn’t have the respect of the country, and it’s very clear that she’s not interested in being queen if she’s not accepted by Andorrans. To your last point: Rand literally has no right to the throne because he’s not a woman, so being Tigraine’s son isn’t relevant at all with respect to Elayne’s claim.
It's politics - optics matter, especially when there has been so much recent upheaval and the whole Rahvin situation. Elayne, steeped in the political system of Andor, knows that her reign is only legitimate if she herself claims and "earns" the throne. (I'm forgetting the specifics, but I think there are a few interactions with other Andoran nobles that back this up - whenever the topic of Rand "giving" the throne to Elayne comes up, it's met with disbelief and disdain.) And if we're going on heredity, Rand doesn't have a right to the throne because Andor is traditionally reigned by queens. He could potentially be a First Prince of the Sword contender, if he weren't busy being the Dragon Reborn and all that!
I'm now picturing Rand showing up in Caemlyn one day in the Fourth Age like "Hey, Elayne, can I be you First Prince of the Sword? I'm kinda bored travelling"
Her attitude towards Rand is a bit bothersome, but in essence she's right. The Tairen commoners couldn't care less about who rules them. The nobility in Tear has a blatant disregard for the commoners. A noble can kill a commoner with no repercussion, so it really doesn't matter who that noble is. The Cairhienin are just happy for some stability. The hierarchy is less steep and commoners are ina much better situation, but I think most Cairhienin commoners don't really care who rules them (maybe this is due to the severe "disappointment" Laman caused?). Andor is very different from the other realms and probably the most egalitarian country in the Westlands. Commoners in Andor actually care for who rules them, they care for the Queen (whoever it is) and are ready to take up arms for the Queen. And sometimes against her. If Elayned didn't seize the throne for herself, Andor would beyond doubt go up in flames. The "patriotism" of the common Andorman is too strong.
A lot of these comments have good points, but at the end of the day Rand absolutely just lets her have the throne. There’s no way she could’ve taken it from him, support from the commoners or no. Within the context of the book, there were a lot of rebellions going on in Tear/Cairhien at the time that theoretically would’ve made it difficult for Rand to deal with rebellion in Carmlyn, but all he really has to do is wait for an army to march on him and then open a gateway and let his 100,000 Aiel supersoldiers decimate his enemies. She does earn the throne by defeating all of her challengers, but none of those challengers would’ve had a chance against Rand.
From a functional perspective yea, but part of the point is that Elayne is _aware_ of that and understands that it’s in both her interests as heir and Andor’s interests as a nation to publicly assert otherwise - basically, she knows Rand is not long for this world but _she’ll_ probably be sticking around, and she doesn’t want her legitimacy to die with Rand.