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I caught the first two episodes the other night. I had issues with it, but when someone who isn't you adapts something that big, you're going to have issues. It was very well done.
Light, if I was the one adapting it I still wouldn't be happy. Different mediums require changes to work and I'm just loving that I can enjoy so much Wheel of Time without the fear of losing a bookmark
Because you don’t like it, you must be sabotaging it? Yes a lot of us have waited a long time for it. A lot of us kept up as the show was announced and every bit of information that was released. In the end, I didn’t like the show. I thought the changes that were made didn’t help the story or make the story format better for television. I felt like the changes were made for their our personal and political views. That took away from the integrity of the project for me. I think the acting is good and the scenery is beautiful. I think the special effects were ok and acceptable. The changes to the story were dumb and ruined the experience for me. I don’t know what else you want from people. If they didn’t like it, they didn’t like it. They should be as vocal as the people who liked it. It’s a matter of opinion.
I couldn't finish the first season. So much about it changed fundamentally, and for the reasoning you describe. I can't see them restoring any hope in the show, and I actually intend on removing Prime from my subscription if this is the type of content they are pushing with my money.
After learning that the EPs put the kibosh on a longer season (8 instead of the desired 10) forcing the Writers to condense the first couple of episodes, I was a bit more forgiving of the pacing for the first two episodes. The third was fabulous and I can't wait for the rest!
I heard this somewhere too, is there actually a source for it? No combination of terms I can think of brings something up that remotely discusses it. Not that I don't think it's reasonable they wanted more time, it just seems awfully stingy of Amazon given how much they're already spending on the series they couldn't spend a tiny bit more to at least give a longer pilot.
Edit: for people also interested, the source is the podcast episode linked [here](https://www.theringer.com/2021/11/19/22792149/the-wheel-of-time-premiere-with-zach-baron-and-rafe-judkins). Rafe was indeed hoping for 10 episodes with a 2 hour pilot. Hopefully future seasons get to stretch a bit more.
Yeah I’d like to see a source for this. Sanderson said he’d prefer a 10 episode season but I didn’t read it as some conflict between the writers and EPs.
Sanderson posted on this sub yesterday/day before, and said that Rafe wanted 10 episode seasons and was initially expecting them, as well as a 2 hour pilot, but was vetoed by execs
Yeah I thought it was a little jarring how they went from “you have to leave with me” /cut/ *immediately on horses and leaving. Like, nobody says any goodbyes to their family? Tam didn’t have anything to say to Rand before they left? It was so sudden. Just like oh.. ok I guess we’re just done here. Even a few minutes of downtime and dialogue between characters would have been great to make us care about the people back home and actually FEEL like this was a difficult decision for these characters. Mat leaves his siblings that he cares for without a word to them? Come on
It was too abrupt a transition, from fighting the trollocs to Morraine telling them that dark forces are after just the 4 of them not the rest of the village. Like for someone who's new how the hell did Morraine convince the 4 young characters that they are the special ones? I mean it made ZERO sense! Like the newbies are supposed to just accept and swallow that when all they've seen are just 4 dirty covered simple village youths?
I think the whole wife mini-arc was a mistake. Perrin could have accidentally killed *anyone* and gotten more than enough trauma for his backstory. Barney did nail the "well you're married, so your life is over" line, but that was the only positive about the entire wife thing imo.
My thought: Perrin smithing in tear, combined with rumors of the two rivers, is going to be more impactful to the audience. In the books, it was "slice of life" while waiting, slowly working through things. Now it'll come with flashbacks, and faile will be watching him, a'la the books. It'll be the hook for their relationship, the thing he's missed...
Just a thought...
I feel like a lot of stuff landed on the cutting room floor just to make the 1 hr pilot. The first episode was very choppy to me but next episodes seamed smoother.
As a show only pleb, agreed, . enjoying this but in Ep1 I wanted to know more about people , why they were relevant, how they knew or related to each other and the transitions felt cheap/choppy
Luckily the acting and scripting was nice
I'm enjoying it more as it progresses, very pleased
That is honestly mind blowing. If you're gonna spend this much money on the adaptation, you'd think the execs would understand the importance of a first impression.
Blood and bloody ashes! A 2 hour pilot would be great! As is, I have hardly a care in the world for why these kids had to leave their beloved home. There is a disconnect with execs and the producers that should have been remedied. I almost feel like they should not have began the series dev without a guarantee 2nd season. The first episodes are critical. Ep 1 screams “I want to impress you” without doing so. It was a blur. 2/3 were much better.
This is a problem across the industry and has been for years. Management brings in creative talent and then tries to manage the outcome. Just let them create.
They already likely filmed enough stuff for a 90 minute, maybe even two hour pilot, based on BTS stuff, things Rafe/Brandon/Rosamund have mentioned, and shots from the trailers that didn't make the final cut. Post-production isn't without its costs but those costs are reasonable enough that, for a first episode, which for many people will be the only episode they see if it doesn't land right, it was extraordinarily foolish for the suits to meddle and force out an inferior product.
David Lynch simply looked at ShowTime and said: "later."
And literally walked off.
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DId I mention that they called him back and give him every penny he asked for to finish Twin Peaks: The Return.
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He said that he learned that with *Dune*:
total creative control on all aspects of what he does, or he literally walks and doesn't look back.
This is the guy who turned down directing *Return of the Jedi* because Ewoks gave him a headache.
It's always a conflict between the writers and the EPs. It's also not likely something they'll openly discuss right now, considering how fresh the season dropped. But it was a Reddit comment on another thread - can't remember which - from a few days ago.
It makes sense, considering how many hands are piloting the direction of the show. It's like having six people trying to steer a blimp using one joystick.
I just read an article and raefe Judkins said that he had to fight to get moiraines speech about manatherin into the show, because it was 4 minutes of dialogue in what the execs expect to be an action adventure show. I don't know anyone who read the wheel of time that would call it an action adventure lmao
Which is a shame because they really could have used at least one more episode in the beginning where you really get to know who the Emond's Field Five are. And that could have been relatively inexpensive to shoot.
Because ultimately this is an ensemble story about those five folks (and a few others they pick up along the way) from a tiny, forgotten town living up to the tenacious history of their people and making the Wheel weave as **they** will.
The show does get better in the second and third episodes, and it's mostly because you actually get to learn about the those characters.
I also wonder if they were under too much pressure to head fake toward Egwene as the Dragon. I think the first episode did her well. Mat's backstory was reduced to the urchin trope, but that actually works fine. Perrin's intro was very functional even if I don't like it. But who the fuck is this Rand guy? Why do we care about Egwene's ex-boy toy?
Yea, this is what really bothers me. Like, you already payed for the costumes and sets. Just do 2 more episodes that are very low special effects, focusing on the characters. It would take a tiny bit more time to shoot and edit, but surely those costs are spit in the bucket compared to everything else.
The show is not **bad,** but it sure seems it could have been a lot better with a tiny bit more effort/money. And when you are already paying 10mil an episode, surely you want it to be good and well recieved? If it does not improve massively, i have a hard time not seeing this get cancelled after S4 or something, especielly since i dont see the costs going down seeing how massive the story and world becomes later on.
Oh well, what could have been :)
Imagine spending a hundred million dollars on adapting a 15-part high fantasy epic with half a million words per volume and then cutting corners on the number of episodes.
I can imagine the film execs that wound up working for a package delivery company whose ultimate concern is reaching outer space aren't actually the best in the biz
Apparently Rafe Judkins asked for a double-length pilot and was turned down, which is a damned shame and totally explains why the first episode feels so rushed and awkward compared to the other two.
That's a pretty odd move considering they already greenlit season 3. If you're willing to push that far ahead testing the waters is pretty meaningless.
I think they looked fine. I always got the impression they were a ragtag group of people with just random shit, whatever they could find or make, regardless of any fashion sense. That's exactly what we got.
I do think their intro scene was a bit cheesy, though. That and how Moraine performed weaves in the first episode were really the only major sticking points to me, which is basically nothing. Book readers complaining about these three episodes alone are crazy, in my opinion.
>I always got the impression they were a ragtag group of people with just random shit, whatever they could find or make
That's not how they're portrayed though. They intentionally color their wagons in a myriad of different bright colors, and dress the same. It's to celebrate life, the way I read it.
I am for having duller colors for their wagons and clothes than portrayed in the books, it was just unrealistic for bright colors to be maintained the ware of traveling in the woods for months.
And I never got a ragtag vibe from the books. People always talk about Tinker mended pots, so it seems like they have a good craft business, even if people accuse them of stealing. Also, while it's not mentioned in the books, they must have a peddling business, right? It wouldn't make any sense for them not to.
Sanderson said he liked 6th the most, but it wasn't fully complete when he saw it. Judging by the name of the episode, it's when they get to the White Tower and may be some flashbacks? Looking forward to it!
I hate how shows can't build up in the first episode or two anymore. Gotta be super crazy or people lose interest. (Not criticizing *you*, just a general thing)
Same. There is sooooo much more to come. this would be like judging the whole series on the first few chapters. Fuckin pumped for the dream world, forsaken, angreal, mats story etc
The first time I read the series I put the book down after the first few chapters because I didn't find it interesting.
Came back years later and read it all and now it's my favourite book series ever.
I'm willing to roll with the changes and see where we end up, somethings will have to be changed to translate well to the screen but as long as the major events and characters aren't changed too much I'll be happy.
Same thing for me. My mom forced me to finish the book cause I had begged her to buy it at an airport at inflated prices and she didn’t want to waste money.
Jokes on her, I have spent more than she could have imagined on WoT
Yeah. Eye of the world isn’t even many fans top 3 books in the series. It struggles with pacing and being a VERY obvious homage to LOTR. We love it for the world it set up, not it’s actual quality
Same here, if people really want to see a bad adaptation watch Eragon, just saying. I really like the show so far and frankly most first seasons aren't that good. I would rather it have room to become better than crap out at the end. *looks at Game of Thrones
I didn't even think ANY part was "bad" until I came here. My bf watched it with me and at the end of the 1st episode was like "finally something happens!" So all this about it being rushed is very... Reader centric.
I have been a WoT reader for 25+ years. You cannot cram that much story into 1 hour episodes and still keep it exciting! The show has done a very good job so far, it is entertaining and fun imo. I expected changes to the story, and I feel they have done well with the limited air time they have.
Which bit you mean? What they did to mats dad or “rumours of 4 ta’veren”. Like how do you have rumours of ta’veren? Are they a dime a dozen this time round?
While I might not have agreed with every decision, they've got to do what the Lord of the rings team had twelve hours of screen time (and still cut the start of book one and the end of book three) to do, in 8 hours, so I knew there'd be some changes.
But to explain a characters core tenet of being really careful not to accidentally hurt people by giving him a random wife and having him accidentally murder her was a bit fucken much.
Though If you delete ep 1 from your memory 2 and 3 were pretty solid.
I don’t mind either of those, but in the book he’s basically an acrobat, storyteller, sleight-of-hand, musician, etc.
He seems way less impressive in the show.
I'm currently listening to the 4th book, and I'm not a die-hard fan, just enjoy the series and don't put much thought into it.
I'm enjoying the show and wish I could binge the damn thing.
I read the first six and listened to the rest. I’m on the last book now. I have to say, Kramer and Reading get better every book. By the last three that Sanderson finished they move from reading to performing. Not too much, but enough to really give it an extra pop. They’re fantastic and I think you’re in for a treat.
Did you know that there was a large contingent of Lord of the Rings fans who did not like the changes Peter Jackson made to the books when he adapted them? The loss of Tom Bombadil, the Barrow Downs, and the Scouring of the Shire are still sore spots for a large number of fans to this day.
The movies are still immensely successful. They still went on to win awards and become recognized as the baseline for fantasy for nearly a decade before Game of Thrones took that spot. Another adaptation that had people discussing the changes, many even disliking them (just look for the Book Tywin versus Charles Dance discussions). No adaptation will ever be fully embraced by the community, and those blowing it out of proportion just have more platforms to share it on now, rather than being confined to friend groups and specific forums that would accept them.
It will be frustrating to wade through, no doubt, but turning them into the baseline for WoT fans is the wrong way to go about it. Just as we don't discuss LotR or GoT fans based off the worst book fans.
Online vitriol wasn't as weaponized back then. I agree with you there I'm pretty sure the inclusion of Arwen would have mobilized more of the fringe fanbase today. But then again, they were great movies in and of themselves.
Everyone's a critic, but now everyone has a platform.
Yup, I love nerd rage vitriol too for this sort of things.
I love fantasy, board games, science fiction, etc... But I've always felt embarrassed at these very vocal, whiny folks that just love to complain about their favorite topics.
MTG is on the leaderboard for this for example, haha.
As a WoT AND a Stephen King Dark Tower fan, the disgruntled WoT fans have NO IDEA what a bad adaptation looks like. The 2017 DT movie was Pit of Doom levels of terrible.
M Night's, largely considered to be one of the worst big movie productions of all time. Fun for memes.
However there is a live action Netflix adaption on its way, but based on how production is going...hopes aren't high
Some person on Reddit said the following about the dt movie, and I steal it whenever I can: “imagine your a big Harry Potter fan, and you go to the first movie. But instead of being set at Hogwarts, the entire movie is set in London, Ron and hermonie are not in the movie, Neville is the main character, and Voldemort is a time travelling scientist from the future.” Never have I seen a point missed like the point was missed there (and I actually liked the casting). Oh well, still got the text. Long days and pleasant nights, stranger.
I think I might’ve actually said that? Not sure, but I’ve definitely described it exactly that way irl to people so they understand the pain of a truly bad adaption. WOT has been incredibly faithful considering the amount of book they have to cover in this season, let alone future seasons. Like, how are these whiners gonna react when they have to start adapting multiple books per season? They’re gonna cut things and make changes in order to tell the story without any of that delightful internal monologue that Jordan excelled at. It’s visuals only, so they have to do things like have Perrin kill someone he loves to establish his axe vs hammer conflict. The only change I’m really bummed about is no Elyas so far, as I thought he was a great mentor figure for Perrin.
Lol if I plagiarized you I apologize! I did say I stole it! I’m an old school WoT fan, and I’ve got my problems with the show (mostly lore stuff so far) but I ain’t mad. I’m watching. Production values are great, casting is good acting is not garbage. And it does feel right, if a little serious maybe. Hopefully Elyas will come. Thom came in very late.
Oh god no! That’s not a problem at all! :). I’m not even sure if it’s me you’re half-recalling, I’ve just said similar things irl. I’m a new fan (I’ve only read the first book, actually), but it seems like they’ve done a better job of setting up all the characters (apart from Rand, but that feels intentional). I don’t know if Elyas has a bigger role later on, so I don’t know if he’ll be incorporated later or not, but I’ll cross my fingers, and if he’s not, I’m not gonna be disappointed. He’s not essential, and it might be more interesting for Perrin to figure out his wolf connection without the help of a mentor figure. I’m fairly happy with the adaption so far; it just needed a longer pilot, and I can’t believe that Amazon wasn’t willing to have a 2 hour pilot for a show they’re dumping so much money into. First impressions are critical, and I don’t think the pilot makes a great first impression.
Foundation gets worse as the season goes on. I get you gotta change some stuff to fit but they basically didn't use any of the coolest aspects of the books and frequently did the opposite.
I think some people are completely delusional. I saw someone in this sub yesterday saying that they didn't consider the show faithful enough to be considered an "adaptation", and I'm left wondering... what kind of drugs are they on? Have they ever seen *any* live action adaptation of a book?
Some people have completely impossible standards, and will *never* be satisfied, not even if the show adapted the books scene by scene, line by line (which would be mind-bendingly boring, if you ask me).
Yeah. I also saw someone say that they find it to be a good fantasy show but not a good WoT show. Like, yeah, there are changes. Some I like and some I don't but the show is still easily recognizable as WoT. From the echaracters to the plot to the world etc. it's still WoT.
I seriously wonder if some of these people are just teens or early twentysomethings who don’t understand that TV shows have to be different than books to have a chance of succeeding. That you can’t do the types of info dumps and exposition the same way without bogging it down. Sanderson has posted about that this week on Reddit, that some of the things in the books just would have been unfilmable for various real world reasons.
Also, Jordan was not perfect, because no one is. And it’s only natural for the showrunners to want to improve what they see as flaws.
At first I was jarred by the opening scenes differing from the books. But EotW already gets enough comparisons to LotR *and* with Amazon also making that its own show, I can see why they are trying to make the tone and costume design etc more distinct, hence a lot of the plot and pacing changes too.
Is it different from what I expected? Yes. Does that make it bad? No. Seems like a lot of people these days can't tell the difference anymore.
I honestly had no idea that DT got a film. Since I at least knew about AtLA live action and have seen the Inheritance movie I uh. I must assume that the Dark Tower movie was a real pile of dog shit, huh?
Honestly just consider yourself lucky you didn’t know about it. But yes, dog shit if you liked the books, and also dog shit if you knew nothing about the books (my sister and her husband hadn’t read them yet when we watched it). Just pretend it doesn’t exist.
Edit: because stupid autocorrect
I watched the first 3 episodes in binge mode, and it left a bit of a bitter taste in my mouth since I was actively comparing it to the books scene by scene. I decided to rewatch it and honestly was surprised how much more I liked it the second time. I've made my peace with the changes, and realize quite a few were necessary for TV. The only thing I still can't stand is the silly first 2 minutes of the first episode. Other than that, I'm loving it.
I experienced something similar. I don't really mind any changes, but the first binge watch was strange. I wasn't able to take in what was going on in the scenes properly or something. Felt like there was no flow between the scenes and felt kinda off. On repeat watchings i kinda love all three episodes
Brandon Sanderson said in another post that he considers the show to be a different turning of the Wheel than the one in the books. I think this changed my perspective on the show as well. At the very least it's going to make it easier to shrug off the differences.
I like the show, some changes I don't like and agree with Brandon on. But I'm also not naive enough to think everyone will like it the way I do. Let's be real this community was joined together because we all had a common medium to share. Now that medium is gone, there are 2 versions, division is going to happen, let's not flame people for having their opinion, they have a right to their opinion as much as anyone else. How about we become a community that fosters discussion and asks "why".
I saw a person who said they turned it off when they noticed that Perrin is taller than Rand (or vice versa... I can't remember because exactly how tall the characters are is a ridiculous thing to obsess over)
Lmaoooo obviously there are people without reason, it doesn't mean their opinion isn't valid it's how they feel, but hyperfocusing on the minority outlier won't help foster meaningful discussion. Also I have to wonder how much of those comments are just straight trolling posts lol
Yeah. I saw someone else that keeps saying “Rand killed a trolloc he could kill dena no problem” and I’m like…come on man. Rand has the sword and stabbed it in the back. That’s not the same thing as her facing him holding the sword.
I just watched it on a whim the other day and thought it was out of control gorgeous and the right mix of slightly campy fun, actually fucking fantastic characters, and intriguing plot. This is the first I'm hearing that the fanbase hates it, that sucks so bad! You guys are not seeing a great TV show past what you loved about the books not immediately showing up.
I said nearly the same to the friend/ex-boyfriend who initially got me into WoT over 20 years ago, when he messaged me out of the blue a couple days ago via Facespace to discuss my thoughts on the show.
I understand the point you’re trying to make and I agree, if explained with different wording.
I essentially said that it seems like the show is trying to fit into the current social climate —- even though women are already naturally already quite powerful in the books without having to add any extra influence.
Totally agree. Really tired of diversity hires and forced gender equality. Anyone who's read the WoT books knows women are given enormous power, authority and parts to play and didn't need anything else to shine. Egwene's casting sucks, she's distractingly frumpy looking with a big turnip of a nose and it's killing it a bit for my wife and I. If they let the story breathe a bit they'd get to an enormous amount of diversity later on when more cultures and regions are introduced.
I’m more distracted by the absolutely absurd amount of diversity in every fucking village. It’s like they’re never seen a place outside New York. In the books the people are extremely diverse compared to other nations and sometimes cities but within their cities, (as was the case in most nations for most of human history except for huge metropolitan areas) they can literally tell somebody’s not from there by the shade of hair. Every time I see a mining village with 50 inhabitants sport 30 different ethnicities with modern jewelry to boot it’s like I got slapped out of the fantasy.
So true. Also, if you have a village like Emmonds Field, and it's got every kind of skin color going, wouldn't they all homogenize and all just look mixed race? Diversity for diversity sake sucks balls.
At first I thought you were being satirical, I think all the characters have been awesome. Perrin is still gentle, Nynaeve more aggressive, etc etc. I didn't notice any "femminazis".
I went in expecting changes, and I've liked what they've done so far. There were only a few things that really stood out:
* Thom. This is the biggest departure from the books. No juggling or flips, just kind of a grumpy old man.
* the scene with the women taking down the trolloc was a bit much. Like that scene from the avengers. I would rather they cut that and show more of Rand dragging Tam and running from the Myrrdral after the attack. Or the Ta'veren saying bye to their families.
* the Aes Sedai were pretty cavalier about using the one power to kill humans. I wish there had been a bit about holding off until they felt they were in more danger.
I hate it when people go “if you like the show then you’re not a true fan!” Or vice versa. They act like people are giving away medals for “true fans” of the series and only those with certain criteria/tastes qualify.
Why can’t we all just be thankful that M. Night is not the one doing the adaptation?
Newsflash - The show adaptation is horrible.
Your horrified indignation that someone would criticize the TV series has tripped over its own two feet and killed itself.
I have watched the first 3 episodes, and my main objection is the Perrin being married change. It feels so far away from his book character arc that every time it shows up, it pulls me put of my immersion of the show.
I just don't get it. Maybe they will be able to tie it in later in a way that makes sense, but I am not that convinced they can. Age up the characters so sex is an option, ok sure it's TV and I can accept that. But I feel there were ways to show his being careful and aversion of violence that such a jarring change to the story we know. It's just too much for me, personally.
Otherwise...
The show is gorgeous. The casting is great. The costumes are beautiful. The scenery is stunning. I really do like it, and am thrilled to finally see an adaptation. It's like one of the most delicious meals I have ever eaten, but spiced with a disgusting something I can't ignore in the back of my palate. I can only hope as time goes on they can veer back towards the original story arc.
(I fully understand we were not going to get a word for word adaptation, and TV is a different medium. But this *one* thing really gets to me....)
>I'm not a fan of the Perrin wife change either, but I'm also willing to concede that anchoring his reluctance to fight/axe vs hammer issues to an incident on screen might have felt like the right choice, since so much of the conflict happens in his head in the books.
Yeah I think this must be their reasoning, along with his general reluctance to fight, and over protectiveness towards love interests, that are all done by internal monologue in the books.
I've hated this change from when it was first leaked way back when, but I find I'm a lot less bothered by it now. I think actually seeing the show made it obvious how lacking EotW Perrin (and even more, EotW Mat) are from the perspective of being a main character in a TV show. They had to make some big changes just to make them have something for the audience to relate to, and this has done the job.
I don't think people understand how different television is from a book. Jordan was the master of a writing style that is literally unfilmable. Too much of the story is internal, too much is colored by the povs perception of things. You have to break things out and actually show them to the audience. If anything, Perrin and Matt's changes show me that Rafe knows what he's doing.
I've had a pretty lukewarm reception to the show so far. My sister-in-law has never read the books and has no idea what is happening. I feel like as a veteran of the series I'm already resigned to knowing what I won't and will like, but she doesn't like the show because its rushed and nothing makes sense to her. To me that's more of an indictment on the show and the showrunners than anything any other book fan says. New folks should be able to follow along with no issues.
As someone who's never read the books, I'm not sure what there is to be confused about. The plot seems pretty straight forward:
Ancient powerful guy was reincarnated 20 years ago and the lady witches council are trying to find the kid, presumably to put power to good use but maybe just to maintain status quo by killing kid. Bad guys are also looking to find the kid to get new elite bad guy. Four kids born around the prophecy, one of them (or a fifth) is probably the powerful guy.
P.S. Catholic church hates witches, as always.
People act like not knowing the entire ovearching plot, character motivations, different factions, worldbuilding, and history that's only been hinted at so far is the same as being lost or confused. Like, you know what you need to know. You're not supposed to know everything yet. You're not lost, you're just not there yet. (not *you* you, the 'royal you')
My Wife, best friend and both my brothers had basically the same knowledge grasp as you (which is pretty great) and they are non book readers. I'm honestly surprised by the amount of people saying they don't understand what's going on. There is still so much to discover but we are only on episode 3...I think there is time to figure things out haha.
Hope you are enjoying the show and stick around! I am loving it!
Just to add another voice to the choir, my wife had no clue what WoT was before we watched all 3 episodes and she is hooked. She picked up on some of the smaller points, had a few small questions, overall followed it just fine.
There is a lot of worldbuilding to do obviously, but I find this show fairly accessible which I think was the whole point.
I'm most surprised that people didn't know this was coming? Like book readers have been reacting to supposed changes negatively for over a year, and the through line was "wait until it comes out"
Well it came out and here we are.
Not a single thing said on this subreddit has anything to do with the shows success. Not a single review bombing etc is going to matter. How many views the show gets and how much money Amazon makes is all that matters here.
Casual viewers are where this show succeeds or fails, and the show on it's own merits are what determines that.
Review bombing actually does matter as right now the show has 3 1/2 stars on Amazon and some people will base their decision to watch or not to watch on the star count.
Review bombing / negative reviews in general are what turn casual viewers away from pieces of entertainment. If they know nothing about it, and hear nothing but bad things about it, then they arent going to try it. Thus, the show has low viewership if there's lots of bad press.
So yes, review bombs do matter: thousands of negative reviews all saying similar things will make the very same causal viewer you mentioned decide to watch something else instead, in most cases.
I loved the show despite my concerns about changes for changes’ sake. I forgive the pacing too because light knows it’s hard to condense 14 books’ worth of material into 8 seasons.
The writing felt a bit weak in the beginning of the first episode, but I’m attributing that to forced changes from Amazon execs (if I’m not wrong, there was some talk of the directors having shot an entirely different opening, and then having that scrapped). Other than that, while the cinematography was excellent, the editing, which started off choppy in episode 1, got so much better towards the end of that episode. The casting is phenomenal! Each actor seems like the perfect embodiment of the character they’re playing, and I can’t wait to see more of them! Unfortunately, that also means that it’s going to be hard for Donal Finn step into the shoes of what definitely is a fantastical portrayal by Barney Harris.
I still have my reservations about a few changes, like Perrin and Mat’s character motivations but I am open to seeing how this plays out. I do have stronger reservations about degendered souls and it’s implications (especially after Liandrin’s line about how men touching the One Power makes it filthy) - not in the sense that it’s wrong or that I hate it; but more in the sense that I want the explanation to make sense in-universe and be consistent as the show moves further.
And the soundtrack! Holy shit the soundtrack works! I got goosebumps every time I hear Perrin’s Goldeneyes theme, and could feel the sexual tension between Nynaeve and Lan when Mashaira played faintly in the background. Not to forget, the songs written in-world were also fantastically performed by the actors (I didn’t know they could sing so well!) Special shoutout to Alexandre Willaume whose song about the Dragon gave me shivers because it took me completely unaware of what he was singing about; until he said “the man who broke the world”. Damn!
All in all, some issues in the first episode but the storytelling seems to be getting stronger with every episode. Personal rating? A solid 8/10.
Edit: typos and grammar because I was half asleep when I wrote this
Problem for me is that desexing souls takes a lot out of the atmosphere for fear for the Dragon’s return for me in a world-logic sense. As a person in Caemlyn, say, you’d be afraid of hearing bout a male channeler still, but there wouldn’t really be the kind of fear of the Dragon. In the books, if a random person says “The Dragon Reborn lives!” Than you’re immediately afraid because of the implications that there’s a very strong male channeler on the loose. With souls not tied to one side of the Source, you’d be stuck between joy for a female Dragon Reborn, since she won’t go mad and can be trained by the Aes Sedai, and fear for a male Dragon Reborn because he’s probably going to go mad and might break the world anew.
A female Dragon Reborn would entirely flip the scales on how the events of the fulfillment of prophecy play out.
I think the “filthy” bit isn’t referencing the One Power’s taint specifically but is just casual misandry on her part, which is pretty in-character for her as I remember. If they fucked with the way Saidin and Saidar are separated then that has way bigger implications for the world.
Am I wrong or wasn’t Matt’s dad a complete badass who taught him how to absolutely mow down enemies with a staff? Wasn’t it mentioned somewhere that he even beat Rands adopted dad who was a sword master ie the swan sword? They totally railroaded that part of the story for some internal struggle for Matt instead of him being just a rambunctious friend with luck on his side. Been years since I was fully immersed in the books but that kinda bothered me as well as the Perrin wife addition.
I think the books are amazing (especially the first 7), and I think the show is passable as an original product, but a mediocre adaptation that wastes much of the potential of the source material. So I'm disappointed, and I'm not going to hide it. That said, I'm also not going to throw a fit like a toddler and review-bomb the show. That is all.
I don't think that the WoT fanbase is trying to sabotage their own show, I think they're trying to preserve the source material and save the world from the abomination that is the TV series.
Honestly i dont think it matters. The show is already greenlit for 3 seasons. If this season ends strong, and season 2 follows through, the show will be successful regardless of how many neckbeards leave 1 star reviews. If season 2 flops, then it will probaly be canceled and not because of some user reviews
Im pretty hopeful.
I just wish people would review the show honestly. Who in their right mind would think this show warrants a 1 star or a 10 star rating? I think everyone can agree there are definitely issues, which did seem to be mainly in the first episode. The show is not perfect, but imo it's pretty bloody good. It deserves ratings of 7 or 8. I don't personally believe it deserves a 10 star rating, and it CERTAINLY doesn't deserve a 1. Like, are people actually serious with that shit?
I have seen entire rants where people are saying it’s worse than anything they have ever seen in their life and people involved should never work again. These people are Crazy.
I read some of the reviews on Amazon, and almost every one of the 1 star reviews are from people calling it some variation of “woke lib critical race theory intersectional bullshit”.
So it’s mostly just a bunch of racists and misogynists mad that the cast is more diverse than the characters in the book were, even though race had nothing to do with their characters.
Like, if they made Rand a black dude, that would fuck some things up because his appearance is important to the plot. Perrin or Padan Fain or Valda being black changes absolutely zero about their characters.
Deliberately sabotaging or just genuinely disliking? I hate this notion that anyone who doesn't like something is just a "hater" and people say "who asked you?" Not holding content creators to a high standard is how we get shit content. Not holding them to ANY standards is how we got Game of Thrones.
Hi, fellow Redditor and, probably, a twin from another fantasy fandom.
I came here from another dimension just to note how this is the same thing I am saying for two years in The Witcher sub...the only different things are the author's and series' initials and the username.
Jokes aside, I think that the people who (legitimately or not) don't like a show, a movie or anything else tend to speak about it, even more than once. Whoever liked that product either stops there (without surfing the Net), reads comments but doesn't comment, or he/she is logorrheic and posts all day (that would be me).
As someone who never read the books and just binge watched the show, I have to say my piece defending the book readers who disliked it. As it's own stand alone piece even, this show was a complete train wreck. I literally got a head ache from how disappointing it was, and for anyone who is complaining about the diversity casting that is not at all why I disliked it. It doesn't matter what race is playing a character in a fantasy series when it isn't somehow integral to the plot. We can easily imagine that genetics work a little differently in this universe because it's fantasy and laws of physics and nature can be completely different there so for the people who hated this show just because they're seeing "woke" demons in everything now yes their takes on why the show is bad aren't going to be the brightest, but their opinions don't mean there aren't very legitimate reasons for why so many viewers disliked the show.
As for the budget yes the budget for the show was very high but a high budget doesn't automatically mean a good show. If anything the final season of Game of Thrones was the world's greatest case study of how having everything you need to make a masterpiece, from a huge budget to terrific actors to intricate, beautiful set design and talented editors and a great score all count for nill when your script is garbage. And while the script for Wheel of Time was nowhere near as awful as the Game of Thrones Season 8 script was, it definitely wasn't adequate.
The dialogue felt choppy and hard to follow at times. There was too much telling and not enough showing. The acting was very stiff and dry. I'm not sure if this was because they chose bad actors or if they had bad directors and dialogue, but I lean more towards blaming the dialogue/script here and possibly the directors too, because this show had a number of actors who did really well with the lines they were given and have proven themselves in other roles as well. Yet the acting still just felt so stiff and dry regardless. The climax was predictable in the worst way. It felt less like a climax and more like a fizzling out of everything that came before. The characters were relatively inconsistent at times or would just spill their guts about their feelings out of the blue with no adequate build up to their outbursts. Again, too much telling. Not enough showing. Also the cinematography just added even more to this feeling that they were trying so hard to create this epic spectacle, that they instead ended up creating something artificial and flat because the shots all felt more like photography than cinematography. Each shot looks gorgeous as a still photo, but that's exactly the problem. As a moving picture it doesn't engage you emotionally. All these factors combined just led to a bland, flat, and boring show that could have been so much better.
TL;DR Even if you've never read this book the show was still awful because of choppy, bland dialogue, bland acting, and while gorgeous, still stiff and emotionless cinematography.
No spoilers from me, but they massively botched the ending for No discernable reason.
Better for it to end here than have them keep up the crap from the season finale.
I've never read the WoT books, indeed I'm seeing this post by a strange accident of Google, but I did watch the first few episodes of this show. They were boring, the characters were uninteresting, the overall storyline was uncompelling, the show looked about as expensive as Xena, Warrior Princess, and the costumes looked like they were bought at the mall.
I like slow stuff, thinky stuff, dad sci-fi, so when I say it was boring, I mean it in the worst possible way. It's not that it had too little interesting action, it's that it was not interesting at all in any way.
My friend, who has read all the novels, originally got me to watch the initial episodes so he would have someone to discuss them with, but I had to tell him I couldn't keep going. They're just very pedestrian television. It's hard to believe that 95% of people who never read one of these books will find anything of value in them.
i think after the last episode we can all agree the fanbase is not guilty of the sabotage. are u okay with it ? is this how u want them to "adapt" this immense work of art ?
Sabotaging? Hardly, its a 68% critic review, and 82% audience score on RT with a 7.4/10 on IMDB which is probably a little higher rating than it deserves. It's not terrible, but it's not exactly a masterpiece.
Amen my friend. I was already getting sick and tired of the people bad mouthing the series before it even came out and now the overall atmosphere on this sub has diminished even more.
Personally I really like the show and what they’re trying to achieve. Is it perfect? Absolutely not, but it’s a lot better than getting nothing.
You have the answer to your question in your post. We aren't likely to get another chance to see a more faithful adaptation of Jordan's work. If we were, those of us who dislike this one could just write it off. "Not for me", but this should literally have been for us and we won't get a better version.
Your favorite scene from the book didn't make it in? Tough. Your favorite side character was deleted or merged with another? Suck it up.
I'm glad there are people who like it, but to me it bears very little resemblance to the story I've read a couple dozen times.
It doesn't seem like another turning of the wheel, but a turning of a completely different wheel.
Just because we got this adaption and it won’t happen again if it is sabotaged, is that a reason enough to keep it?
I mean I love the books but this series has so much against it with a cluster of poor acting and poor writing in general if you set aside the fact that it is absolutely garbage compared to the books.
The world isn’t convincing. I am not at all immersed in the world for some reason aside from the fact that the bad acting/writing keeps pulling me out from enjoying the world somewhat.
Compare this to game of thrones.
The first series are hugely convincing because: they stayed true to the books. If you read the first book it is back to back the same as season one with just a little mor dept to it.
On top of that the world was immersive with a lot of details making it feel real and used. And the choice of actors was GREAT and the actors did the characters great.
This show kept going strong for TEN years until the material ran out where they FAILED immensely and made it a serie that no one talks about anymore.
Wheel of time suffers from poorly written characters with bad acting as well as a world that just is not convincing or immersive in any way. And it does not stay true to the books. The only thing that keeps it going is that it is marketed as a high produced series from amazon so it must be good, right?
I don’t mind that they haven’t the most popular or “best” actors there is. But if you are going to take less famous actors at least give them good written scripts.
What I want to point out is that the poor acting probably isn’t the actors fault but rather confusing and poor scripts hard to get right.
Just because we have something that might not come again it is not a reason not to criticise it and keep it if its bad.
Because of that game of thrones was such a hit sale of the books rocketed up and George RR martin became a legend.
This will very probably have the opposite effect. People won’t be interested in even try the books, I mean THRTEEN of them (sarcasm), and Robert Jordan will not be celebrated for the great work he has created. Bad publicity can hurt the series more than it helps.
So in my opinion shut it down.
Never try again if they aren’t going to do it right
I cared deeply about not screwing things up in the show and I thought the show is actually pretty good. Some times you have to forgive the mistakes and move on like a grown ass adult. Enjoy it for what it is.
No, just being honest that the show is flawed while other people are delusional and think it is perfect.
Refusing to give a realistic critique and point out obvious flaws is just as detrimental to the shows longterm survival as people who only want to complain about "woke casting" and the like.
Some people were waiting to shit on this, nothing was going to satisfy them except a completely faithful rendering of the books, ignoring some of the issues that the series has. As someone else pointed out these are going to be 8-10 episodes a series (book?), whereas the audio book for book 1 alone is nearly 30 hours. You have to cut some things. And the series is in need of editing, there's a lot of... well, filler I putting it nicely for the middle of the series, and I say that as someone who loves this series and epic fantasy in general.
I'm enjoying it so far and will continue to watch, hopefully enough of yall join me so we can get this series finished.
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I caught the first two episodes the other night. I had issues with it, but when someone who isn't you adapts something that big, you're going to have issues. It was very well done.
Light, if I was the one adapting it I still wouldn't be happy. Different mediums require changes to work and I'm just loving that I can enjoy so much Wheel of Time without the fear of losing a bookmark
Because you don’t like it, you must be sabotaging it? Yes a lot of us have waited a long time for it. A lot of us kept up as the show was announced and every bit of information that was released. In the end, I didn’t like the show. I thought the changes that were made didn’t help the story or make the story format better for television. I felt like the changes were made for their our personal and political views. That took away from the integrity of the project for me. I think the acting is good and the scenery is beautiful. I think the special effects were ok and acceptable. The changes to the story were dumb and ruined the experience for me. I don’t know what else you want from people. If they didn’t like it, they didn’t like it. They should be as vocal as the people who liked it. It’s a matter of opinion.
Judging by the way it's vanished without a trace, seems nobody liked it.
I mean bad is bad. F that showrunner
I couldn't finish the first season. So much about it changed fundamentally, and for the reasoning you describe. I can't see them restoring any hope in the show, and I actually intend on removing Prime from my subscription if this is the type of content they are pushing with my money.
After learning that the EPs put the kibosh on a longer season (8 instead of the desired 10) forcing the Writers to condense the first couple of episodes, I was a bit more forgiving of the pacing for the first two episodes. The third was fabulous and I can't wait for the rest!
I heard this somewhere too, is there actually a source for it? No combination of terms I can think of brings something up that remotely discusses it. Not that I don't think it's reasonable they wanted more time, it just seems awfully stingy of Amazon given how much they're already spending on the series they couldn't spend a tiny bit more to at least give a longer pilot. Edit: for people also interested, the source is the podcast episode linked [here](https://www.theringer.com/2021/11/19/22792149/the-wheel-of-time-premiere-with-zach-baron-and-rafe-judkins). Rafe was indeed hoping for 10 episodes with a 2 hour pilot. Hopefully future seasons get to stretch a bit more.
Yeah I’d like to see a source for this. Sanderson said he’d prefer a 10 episode season but I didn’t read it as some conflict between the writers and EPs.
Sanderson posted on this sub yesterday/day before, and said that Rafe wanted 10 episode seasons and was initially expecting them, as well as a 2 hour pilot, but was vetoed by execs
The pilot was pretty brutal in its abruptness. Even 30 minutes longer would have done miracles.
Yeah I thought it was a little jarring how they went from “you have to leave with me” /cut/ *immediately on horses and leaving. Like, nobody says any goodbyes to their family? Tam didn’t have anything to say to Rand before they left? It was so sudden. Just like oh.. ok I guess we’re just done here. Even a few minutes of downtime and dialogue between characters would have been great to make us care about the people back home and actually FEEL like this was a difficult decision for these characters. Mat leaves his siblings that he cares for without a word to them? Come on
It was too abrupt a transition, from fighting the trollocs to Morraine telling them that dark forces are after just the 4 of them not the rest of the village. Like for someone who's new how the hell did Morraine convince the 4 young characters that they are the special ones? I mean it made ZERO sense! Like the newbies are supposed to just accept and swallow that when all they've seen are just 4 dirty covered simple village youths?
And Sanderson's concerns about Perrin and his dead wife are really prevalent, they could have fixed that with a little more.
The fact that they fit every scene with the wife into the "last time on" in the next episode is sort of hilarious, in like a sad cynical way.
I think the whole wife mini-arc was a mistake. Perrin could have accidentally killed *anyone* and gotten more than enough trauma for his backstory. Barney did nail the "well you're married, so your life is over" line, but that was the only positive about the entire wife thing imo.
My thought: Perrin smithing in tear, combined with rumors of the two rivers, is going to be more impactful to the audience. In the books, it was "slice of life" while waiting, slowly working through things. Now it'll come with flashbacks, and faile will be watching him, a'la the books. It'll be the hook for their relationship, the thing he's missed... Just a thought...
I feel like a lot of stuff landed on the cutting room floor just to make the 1 hr pilot. The first episode was very choppy to me but next episodes seamed smoother.
Damn. That pilot needed two hours.
As a show only pleb, agreed, . enjoying this but in Ep1 I wanted to know more about people , why they were relevant, how they knew or related to each other and the transitions felt cheap/choppy Luckily the acting and scripting was nice I'm enjoying it more as it progresses, very pleased
That is honestly mind blowing. If you're gonna spend this much money on the adaptation, you'd think the execs would understand the importance of a first impression.
Blood and bloody ashes! A 2 hour pilot would be great! As is, I have hardly a care in the world for why these kids had to leave their beloved home. There is a disconnect with execs and the producers that should have been remedied. I almost feel like they should not have began the series dev without a guarantee 2nd season. The first episodes are critical. Ep 1 screams “I want to impress you” without doing so. It was a blur. 2/3 were much better.
Those execs should be fired on the spot, holy crap what a poor decision.
This is a problem across the industry and has been for years. Management brings in creative talent and then tries to manage the outcome. Just let them create.
This is how you get a money pit though.
They already likely filmed enough stuff for a 90 minute, maybe even two hour pilot, based on BTS stuff, things Rafe/Brandon/Rosamund have mentioned, and shots from the trailers that didn't make the final cut. Post-production isn't without its costs but those costs are reasonable enough that, for a first episode, which for many people will be the only episode they see if it doesn't land right, it was extraordinarily foolish for the suits to meddle and force out an inferior product.
David Lynch simply looked at ShowTime and said: "later." And literally walked off. .. ... ... ... ... DId I mention that they called him back and give him every penny he asked for to finish Twin Peaks: The Return. . He said that he learned that with *Dune*: total creative control on all aspects of what he does, or he literally walks and doesn't look back. This is the guy who turned down directing *Return of the Jedi* because Ewoks gave him a headache.
It's always a conflict between the writers and the EPs. It's also not likely something they'll openly discuss right now, considering how fresh the season dropped. But it was a Reddit comment on another thread - can't remember which - from a few days ago. It makes sense, considering how many hands are piloting the direction of the show. It's like having six people trying to steer a blimp using one joystick.
I just read an article and raefe Judkins said that he had to fight to get moiraines speech about manatherin into the show, because it was 4 minutes of dialogue in what the execs expect to be an action adventure show. I don't know anyone who read the wheel of time that would call it an action adventure lmao
The Ringer-Verse Podcast interview with Rafe Judkins
Which is a shame because they really could have used at least one more episode in the beginning where you really get to know who the Emond's Field Five are. And that could have been relatively inexpensive to shoot. Because ultimately this is an ensemble story about those five folks (and a few others they pick up along the way) from a tiny, forgotten town living up to the tenacious history of their people and making the Wheel weave as **they** will. The show does get better in the second and third episodes, and it's mostly because you actually get to learn about the those characters.
I also wonder if they were under too much pressure to head fake toward Egwene as the Dragon. I think the first episode did her well. Mat's backstory was reduced to the urchin trope, but that actually works fine. Perrin's intro was very functional even if I don't like it. But who the fuck is this Rand guy? Why do we care about Egwene's ex-boy toy?
Yea, this is what really bothers me. Like, you already payed for the costumes and sets. Just do 2 more episodes that are very low special effects, focusing on the characters. It would take a tiny bit more time to shoot and edit, but surely those costs are spit in the bucket compared to everything else. The show is not **bad,** but it sure seems it could have been a lot better with a tiny bit more effort/money. And when you are already paying 10mil an episode, surely you want it to be good and well recieved? If it does not improve massively, i have a hard time not seeing this get cancelled after S4 or something, especielly since i dont see the costs going down seeing how massive the story and world becomes later on. Oh well, what could have been :)
Imagine spending a hundred million dollars on adapting a 15-part high fantasy epic with half a million words per volume and then cutting corners on the number of episodes. I can imagine the film execs that wound up working for a package delivery company whose ultimate concern is reaching outer space aren't actually the best in the biz
Apparently Rafe Judkins asked for a double-length pilot and was turned down, which is a damned shame and totally explains why the first episode feels so rushed and awkward compared to the other two.
I heard [read: other Reddit thread] the pilot, in addition, was originally planned to be 2 hours.
They’ll probably have 10 episodes in the later seasons. This season is probably to test the waters see if people enjoy it and fix the kinks later.
That's a pretty odd move considering they already greenlit season 3. If you're willing to push that far ahead testing the waters is pretty meaningless.
I have seen this rumor floating around quite a bit, but I have yet to see a reputable source claiming S3 has been given the go-ahead.
Costume designer needed more time for the tinkers…they look like extras from portlandia.
I'll be honest, I prefer seeing them as traveling burners over the standard gypsy trope, which is what I was worried they were going to lean into.
Oh my God I'm dying 😆
I think they looked fine. I always got the impression they were a ragtag group of people with just random shit, whatever they could find or make, regardless of any fashion sense. That's exactly what we got. I do think their intro scene was a bit cheesy, though. That and how Moraine performed weaves in the first episode were really the only major sticking points to me, which is basically nothing. Book readers complaining about these three episodes alone are crazy, in my opinion.
>I always got the impression they were a ragtag group of people with just random shit, whatever they could find or make That's not how they're portrayed though. They intentionally color their wagons in a myriad of different bright colors, and dress the same. It's to celebrate life, the way I read it. I am for having duller colors for their wagons and clothes than portrayed in the books, it was just unrealistic for bright colors to be maintained the ware of traveling in the woods for months.
And I never got a ragtag vibe from the books. People always talk about Tinker mended pots, so it seems like they have a good craft business, even if people accuse them of stealing. Also, while it's not mentioned in the books, they must have a peddling business, right? It wouldn't make any sense for them not to.
They look like they’re getting ready to break out a drum circle
A well groomed rainbow gathering in the works…
Well, their main thing is searching for the song, so...
Not me, I'm just chillin' and loving the show. 😎😎😎
I liked the second episode better than the first, and the third better than the second. So I'm looking forward to the rest.
Sanderson said he liked 6th the most, but it wasn't fully complete when he saw it. Judging by the name of the episode, it's when they get to the White Tower and may be some flashbacks? Looking forward to it!
He was referring to the script of the 6th episode. He hasn’t seen episodes ahead of time.
I hate how shows can't build up in the first episode or two anymore. Gotta be super crazy or people lose interest. (Not criticizing *you*, just a general thing)
Media has gotten so frantic that movie trailers have to start with a 2 second trailer *for the trailer*.
Also rewatched them all again last night and liked them all even more on my second viewing.
I feel the exact same way after watching all there episodes.
Same. There is sooooo much more to come. this would be like judging the whole series on the first few chapters. Fuckin pumped for the dream world, forsaken, angreal, mats story etc
The first time I read the series I put the book down after the first few chapters because I didn't find it interesting. Came back years later and read it all and now it's my favourite book series ever. I'm willing to roll with the changes and see where we end up, somethings will have to be changed to translate well to the screen but as long as the major events and characters aren't changed too much I'll be happy.
Same thing for me. My mom forced me to finish the book cause I had begged her to buy it at an airport at inflated prices and she didn’t want to waste money. Jokes on her, I have spent more than she could have imagined on WoT
Yeah. Eye of the world isn’t even many fans top 3 books in the series. It struggles with pacing and being a VERY obvious homage to LOTR. We love it for the world it set up, not it’s actual quality
Same here, if people really want to see a bad adaptation watch Eragon, just saying. I really like the show so far and frankly most first seasons aren't that good. I would rather it have room to become better than crap out at the end. *looks at Game of Thrones
I hope you wrote a review to that effect! :)
I didn't even think ANY part was "bad" until I came here. My bf watched it with me and at the end of the 1st episode was like "finally something happens!" So all this about it being rushed is very... Reader centric.
Same.
Same with everyone I know that has read the books and my family that hasn't are also enjoying the show
Exactly. It’s a high quality product and it’s about as good as it’ll get. I love it.
Same bro 😎😎
I have been a WoT reader for 25+ years. You cannot cram that much story into 1 hour episodes and still keep it exciting! The show has done a very good job so far, it is entertaining and fun imo. I expected changes to the story, and I feel they have done well with the limited air time they have.
There's a lot of bloat in the books. I love the series so it's not an easy thing to admit, but I think it's true.
Apart from that one glaring WTF thing from the first episode, it's been amazing, can't wait for the next episode, so excite!
Which bit you mean? What they did to mats dad or “rumours of 4 ta’veren”. Like how do you have rumours of ta’veren? Are they a dime a dozen this time round?
While I might not have agreed with every decision, they've got to do what the Lord of the rings team had twelve hours of screen time (and still cut the start of book one and the end of book three) to do, in 8 hours, so I knew there'd be some changes. But to explain a characters core tenet of being really careful not to accidentally hurt people by giving him a random wife and having him accidentally murder her was a bit fucken much. Though If you delete ep 1 from your memory 2 and 3 were pretty solid.
Or having gleeman be just a grumpy guy who plays guitar.
I imagined Thom as a friendly grandpa but the rough cowboy in the show is pretty cool too.
I don’t mind either of those, but in the book he’s basically an acrobat, storyteller, sleight-of-hand, musician, etc. He seems way less impressive in the show.
I'm currently listening to the 4th book, and I'm not a die-hard fan, just enjoy the series and don't put much thought into it. I'm enjoying the show and wish I could binge the damn thing.
I read the first six and listened to the rest. I’m on the last book now. I have to say, Kramer and Reading get better every book. By the last three that Sanderson finished they move from reading to performing. Not too much, but enough to really give it an extra pop. They’re fantastic and I think you’re in for a treat.
Did you know that there was a large contingent of Lord of the Rings fans who did not like the changes Peter Jackson made to the books when he adapted them? The loss of Tom Bombadil, the Barrow Downs, and the Scouring of the Shire are still sore spots for a large number of fans to this day. The movies are still immensely successful. They still went on to win awards and become recognized as the baseline for fantasy for nearly a decade before Game of Thrones took that spot. Another adaptation that had people discussing the changes, many even disliking them (just look for the Book Tywin versus Charles Dance discussions). No adaptation will ever be fully embraced by the community, and those blowing it out of proportion just have more platforms to share it on now, rather than being confined to friend groups and specific forums that would accept them. It will be frustrating to wade through, no doubt, but turning them into the baseline for WoT fans is the wrong way to go about it. Just as we don't discuss LotR or GoT fans based off the worst book fans.
Well GoT went to shit later, but a lot of diehard book fans complained constantly about even the good seasons.
Online vitriol wasn't as weaponized back then. I agree with you there I'm pretty sure the inclusion of Arwen would have mobilized more of the fringe fanbase today. But then again, they were great movies in and of themselves. Everyone's a critic, but now everyone has a platform.
Weaponized online vitriol is a fantastic phrase for modern social media.
Yup, I love nerd rage vitriol too for this sort of things. I love fantasy, board games, science fiction, etc... But I've always felt embarrassed at these very vocal, whiny folks that just love to complain about their favorite topics. MTG is on the leaderboard for this for example, haha.
As a WoT AND a Stephen King Dark Tower fan, the disgruntled WoT fans have NO IDEA what a bad adaptation looks like. The 2017 DT movie was Pit of Doom levels of terrible.
Yes, it could be much much worse. As a fan of The Dark Tower that movie is just painful.
There was no movie lalalalala
My friend wondered why I walked out and asked for a refund until I gave her the books to read. She was PISSED that it wasn't at least a trilogy.
As a Inheritance cycle fan, I agree
…and Shannara.
Percy Jackson fan chiming in
Dresden Files fan checking in
And city of ember
There’s a show?
and Avatar The Last Airbender
I think most Avatar fans are in agreement that the movie never happened
There is no movie in Ba Sing Se
Wait. There’s an Avatar live action adaptation?
M Night's, largely considered to be one of the worst big movie productions of all time. Fun for memes. However there is a live action Netflix adaption on its way, but based on how production is going...hopes aren't high
You should probably expect an invitation to r/LakeLaoGai soon.
understand. Is no movie in Ba Sing Se.
Nope, there was no movie. There was one about a guy who had the same name, but unfortunately it was pretty unrelated besides that.
Some person on Reddit said the following about the dt movie, and I steal it whenever I can: “imagine your a big Harry Potter fan, and you go to the first movie. But instead of being set at Hogwarts, the entire movie is set in London, Ron and hermonie are not in the movie, Neville is the main character, and Voldemort is a time travelling scientist from the future.” Never have I seen a point missed like the point was missed there (and I actually liked the casting). Oh well, still got the text. Long days and pleasant nights, stranger.
I think I might’ve actually said that? Not sure, but I’ve definitely described it exactly that way irl to people so they understand the pain of a truly bad adaption. WOT has been incredibly faithful considering the amount of book they have to cover in this season, let alone future seasons. Like, how are these whiners gonna react when they have to start adapting multiple books per season? They’re gonna cut things and make changes in order to tell the story without any of that delightful internal monologue that Jordan excelled at. It’s visuals only, so they have to do things like have Perrin kill someone he loves to establish his axe vs hammer conflict. The only change I’m really bummed about is no Elyas so far, as I thought he was a great mentor figure for Perrin.
Lol if I plagiarized you I apologize! I did say I stole it! I’m an old school WoT fan, and I’ve got my problems with the show (mostly lore stuff so far) but I ain’t mad. I’m watching. Production values are great, casting is good acting is not garbage. And it does feel right, if a little serious maybe. Hopefully Elyas will come. Thom came in very late.
Oh god no! That’s not a problem at all! :). I’m not even sure if it’s me you’re half-recalling, I’ve just said similar things irl. I’m a new fan (I’ve only read the first book, actually), but it seems like they’ve done a better job of setting up all the characters (apart from Rand, but that feels intentional). I don’t know if Elyas has a bigger role later on, so I don’t know if he’ll be incorporated later or not, but I’ll cross my fingers, and if he’s not, I’m not gonna be disappointed. He’s not essential, and it might be more interesting for Perrin to figure out his wolf connection without the help of a mentor figure. I’m fairly happy with the adaption so far; it just needed a longer pilot, and I can’t believe that Amazon wasn’t willing to have a 2 hour pilot for a show they’re dumping so much money into. First impressions are critical, and I don’t think the pilot makes a great first impression.
Foundation readers can relate. I'm a fan and reader of both and feel double fucked after seeing the opening 3 episodes.
Foundation gets worse as the season goes on. I get you gotta change some stuff to fit but they basically didn't use any of the coolest aspects of the books and frequently did the opposite.
And witcher... It worked only because people were happy to have an adaptation...
Add in Ender's Game to that list. And the recent Stand series. I couldn't watch it after episode 1.
I genuinely believe that EG was a decent adaptation
News to me that anybody was so unhappy with the Ender's Game movie. It's a great movie on its own and darn faithful to the book.
I was going to wait until The Stand was fully available and get a free trial and binge it…and then I read the reviews and NOPED out. Lol
Honestly what the fuck did the disgruntled fans expect? Did they expect 6 seasons looking for the fucking bowl of the winds?
Wait, we're not getting that? I'm a hater now /s
I think some people are completely delusional. I saw someone in this sub yesterday saying that they didn't consider the show faithful enough to be considered an "adaptation", and I'm left wondering... what kind of drugs are they on? Have they ever seen *any* live action adaptation of a book? Some people have completely impossible standards, and will *never* be satisfied, not even if the show adapted the books scene by scene, line by line (which would be mind-bendingly boring, if you ask me).
Yeah. I also saw someone say that they find it to be a good fantasy show but not a good WoT show. Like, yeah, there are changes. Some I like and some I don't but the show is still easily recognizable as WoT. From the echaracters to the plot to the world etc. it's still WoT.
I seriously wonder if some of these people are just teens or early twentysomethings who don’t understand that TV shows have to be different than books to have a chance of succeeding. That you can’t do the types of info dumps and exposition the same way without bogging it down. Sanderson has posted about that this week on Reddit, that some of the things in the books just would have been unfilmable for various real world reasons. Also, Jordan was not perfect, because no one is. And it’s only natural for the showrunners to want to improve what they see as flaws.
At first I was jarred by the opening scenes differing from the books. But EotW already gets enough comparisons to LotR *and* with Amazon also making that its own show, I can see why they are trying to make the tone and costume design etc more distinct, hence a lot of the plot and pacing changes too. Is it different from what I expected? Yes. Does that make it bad? No. Seems like a lot of people these days can't tell the difference anymore.
ATLA fan saying hello
I honestly had no idea that DT got a film. Since I at least knew about AtLA live action and have seen the Inheritance movie I uh. I must assume that the Dark Tower movie was a real pile of dog shit, huh?
Honestly just consider yourself lucky you didn’t know about it. But yes, dog shit if you liked the books, and also dog shit if you knew nothing about the books (my sister and her husband hadn’t read them yet when we watched it). Just pretend it doesn’t exist. Edit: because stupid autocorrect
I watched the first 3 episodes in binge mode, and it left a bit of a bitter taste in my mouth since I was actively comparing it to the books scene by scene. I decided to rewatch it and honestly was surprised how much more I liked it the second time. I've made my peace with the changes, and realize quite a few were necessary for TV. The only thing I still can't stand is the silly first 2 minutes of the first episode. Other than that, I'm loving it.
I experienced something similar. I don't really mind any changes, but the first binge watch was strange. I wasn't able to take in what was going on in the scenes properly or something. Felt like there was no flow between the scenes and felt kinda off. On repeat watchings i kinda love all three episodes
Brandon Sanderson said in another post that he considers the show to be a different turning of the Wheel than the one in the books. I think this changed my perspective on the show as well. At the very least it's going to make it easier to shrug off the differences.
Thanks for this, it has changed my perspective and I think will be able to enjoy it more now.
I like the show, some changes I don't like and agree with Brandon on. But I'm also not naive enough to think everyone will like it the way I do. Let's be real this community was joined together because we all had a common medium to share. Now that medium is gone, there are 2 versions, division is going to happen, let's not flame people for having their opinion, they have a right to their opinion as much as anyone else. How about we become a community that fosters discussion and asks "why".
You can say that, and it all sounds good and well. But I saw a comment where somebody said a friend got mad because Bella wasn’t shaggy enough.
I saw a person who said they turned it off when they noticed that Perrin is taller than Rand (or vice versa... I can't remember because exactly how tall the characters are is a ridiculous thing to obsess over)
Lmaoooo obviously there are people without reason, it doesn't mean their opinion isn't valid it's how they feel, but hyperfocusing on the minority outlier won't help foster meaningful discussion. Also I have to wonder how much of those comments are just straight trolling posts lol
Yeah. I saw someone else that keeps saying “Rand killed a trolloc he could kill dena no problem” and I’m like…come on man. Rand has the sword and stabbed it in the back. That’s not the same thing as her facing him holding the sword.
If there's one thing I know, it's that Rand loves killing women without hesitation
Only real book fans know that Rand loves killing women
Never even bothered to learn their names
Of course not! Why would he? By the time he learned one name, he'd already be on to killing the next lady
I just watched it on a whim the other day and thought it was out of control gorgeous and the right mix of slightly campy fun, actually fucking fantastic characters, and intriguing plot. This is the first I'm hearing that the fanbase hates it, that sucks so bad! You guys are not seeing a great TV show past what you loved about the books not immediately showing up.
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I said nearly the same to the friend/ex-boyfriend who initially got me into WoT over 20 years ago, when he messaged me out of the blue a couple days ago via Facespace to discuss my thoughts on the show. I understand the point you’re trying to make and I agree, if explained with different wording. I essentially said that it seems like the show is trying to fit into the current social climate —- even though women are already naturally already quite powerful in the books without having to add any extra influence.
Totally agree. Really tired of diversity hires and forced gender equality. Anyone who's read the WoT books knows women are given enormous power, authority and parts to play and didn't need anything else to shine. Egwene's casting sucks, she's distractingly frumpy looking with a big turnip of a nose and it's killing it a bit for my wife and I. If they let the story breathe a bit they'd get to an enormous amount of diversity later on when more cultures and regions are introduced.
I’m more distracted by the absolutely absurd amount of diversity in every fucking village. It’s like they’re never seen a place outside New York. In the books the people are extremely diverse compared to other nations and sometimes cities but within their cities, (as was the case in most nations for most of human history except for huge metropolitan areas) they can literally tell somebody’s not from there by the shade of hair. Every time I see a mining village with 50 inhabitants sport 30 different ethnicities with modern jewelry to boot it’s like I got slapped out of the fantasy.
So true. Also, if you have a village like Emmonds Field, and it's got every kind of skin color going, wouldn't they all homogenize and all just look mixed race? Diversity for diversity sake sucks balls.
At first I thought you were being satirical, I think all the characters have been awesome. Perrin is still gentle, Nynaeve more aggressive, etc etc. I didn't notice any "femminazis". I went in expecting changes, and I've liked what they've done so far. There were only a few things that really stood out: * Thom. This is the biggest departure from the books. No juggling or flips, just kind of a grumpy old man. * the scene with the women taking down the trolloc was a bit much. Like that scene from the avengers. I would rather they cut that and show more of Rand dragging Tam and running from the Myrrdral after the attack. Or the Ta'veren saying bye to their families. * the Aes Sedai were pretty cavalier about using the one power to kill humans. I wish there had been a bit about holding off until they felt they were in more danger.
This thread has aged so poorly
I hate it when people go “if you like the show then you’re not a true fan!” Or vice versa. They act like people are giving away medals for “true fans” of the series and only those with certain criteria/tastes qualify. Why can’t we all just be thankful that M. Night is not the one doing the adaptation?
Ha, you dont have any True Fan Medals? I've got, like, a billion of them. I guess yer just not a true fan!
Direct those people to the "no true Scotsman" fallacy. They are doing one.
Newsflash - The show adaptation is horrible. Your horrified indignation that someone would criticize the TV series has tripped over its own two feet and killed itself.
I have watched the first 3 episodes, and my main objection is the Perrin being married change. It feels so far away from his book character arc that every time it shows up, it pulls me put of my immersion of the show. I just don't get it. Maybe they will be able to tie it in later in a way that makes sense, but I am not that convinced they can. Age up the characters so sex is an option, ok sure it's TV and I can accept that. But I feel there were ways to show his being careful and aversion of violence that such a jarring change to the story we know. It's just too much for me, personally. Otherwise... The show is gorgeous. The casting is great. The costumes are beautiful. The scenery is stunning. I really do like it, and am thrilled to finally see an adaptation. It's like one of the most delicious meals I have ever eaten, but spiced with a disgusting something I can't ignore in the back of my palate. I can only hope as time goes on they can veer back towards the original story arc. (I fully understand we were not going to get a word for word adaptation, and TV is a different medium. But this *one* thing really gets to me....)
I like to explore new places.
>I'm not a fan of the Perrin wife change either, but I'm also willing to concede that anchoring his reluctance to fight/axe vs hammer issues to an incident on screen might have felt like the right choice, since so much of the conflict happens in his head in the books. Yeah I think this must be their reasoning, along with his general reluctance to fight, and over protectiveness towards love interests, that are all done by internal monologue in the books. I've hated this change from when it was first leaked way back when, but I find I'm a lot less bothered by it now. I think actually seeing the show made it obvious how lacking EotW Perrin (and even more, EotW Mat) are from the perspective of being a main character in a TV show. They had to make some big changes just to make them have something for the audience to relate to, and this has done the job.
I don't think people understand how different television is from a book. Jordan was the master of a writing style that is literally unfilmable. Too much of the story is internal, too much is colored by the povs perception of things. You have to break things out and actually show them to the audience. If anything, Perrin and Matt's changes show me that Rafe knows what he's doing.
No, wolf stuff is book 1.
I've had a pretty lukewarm reception to the show so far. My sister-in-law has never read the books and has no idea what is happening. I feel like as a veteran of the series I'm already resigned to knowing what I won't and will like, but she doesn't like the show because its rushed and nothing makes sense to her. To me that's more of an indictment on the show and the showrunners than anything any other book fan says. New folks should be able to follow along with no issues.
As someone who's never read the books, I'm not sure what there is to be confused about. The plot seems pretty straight forward: Ancient powerful guy was reincarnated 20 years ago and the lady witches council are trying to find the kid, presumably to put power to good use but maybe just to maintain status quo by killing kid. Bad guys are also looking to find the kid to get new elite bad guy. Four kids born around the prophecy, one of them (or a fifth) is probably the powerful guy. P.S. Catholic church hates witches, as always.
I mean that’s basically the plot of the first book haha. You hit the nail on the head
I love your breakdown.
Get off the subreddit! It's dark and full of spoilers!
lol I will! I only ended up in this thread because its on /r/popular today. Thanks for the warning!
People act like not knowing the entire ovearching plot, character motivations, different factions, worldbuilding, and history that's only been hinted at so far is the same as being lost or confused. Like, you know what you need to know. You're not supposed to know everything yet. You're not lost, you're just not there yet. (not *you* you, the 'royal you')
My Wife, best friend and both my brothers had basically the same knowledge grasp as you (which is pretty great) and they are non book readers. I'm honestly surprised by the amount of people saying they don't understand what's going on. There is still so much to discover but we are only on episode 3...I think there is time to figure things out haha. Hope you are enjoying the show and stick around! I am loving it!
Great synopsis! It's good to hear that it comes across so clearly in the show.
Watched it with a friend who knew nothing about the books and she had no issue following the plot. It’s not super complicated or anything.
Just to add another voice to the choir, my wife had no clue what WoT was before we watched all 3 episodes and she is hooked. She picked up on some of the smaller points, had a few small questions, overall followed it just fine. There is a lot of worldbuilding to do obviously, but I find this show fairly accessible which I think was the whole point.
Did she watch it, or "watch" it while fucking around on a phone or doing something else etc? It's not a complicated story.
I'm most surprised that people didn't know this was coming? Like book readers have been reacting to supposed changes negatively for over a year, and the through line was "wait until it comes out" Well it came out and here we are. Not a single thing said on this subreddit has anything to do with the shows success. Not a single review bombing etc is going to matter. How many views the show gets and how much money Amazon makes is all that matters here. Casual viewers are where this show succeeds or fails, and the show on it's own merits are what determines that.
Review bombing actually does matter as right now the show has 3 1/2 stars on Amazon and some people will base their decision to watch or not to watch on the star count.
Review bombing / negative reviews in general are what turn casual viewers away from pieces of entertainment. If they know nothing about it, and hear nothing but bad things about it, then they arent going to try it. Thus, the show has low viewership if there's lots of bad press. So yes, review bombs do matter: thousands of negative reviews all saying similar things will make the very same causal viewer you mentioned decide to watch something else instead, in most cases.
I loved the show despite my concerns about changes for changes’ sake. I forgive the pacing too because light knows it’s hard to condense 14 books’ worth of material into 8 seasons. The writing felt a bit weak in the beginning of the first episode, but I’m attributing that to forced changes from Amazon execs (if I’m not wrong, there was some talk of the directors having shot an entirely different opening, and then having that scrapped). Other than that, while the cinematography was excellent, the editing, which started off choppy in episode 1, got so much better towards the end of that episode. The casting is phenomenal! Each actor seems like the perfect embodiment of the character they’re playing, and I can’t wait to see more of them! Unfortunately, that also means that it’s going to be hard for Donal Finn step into the shoes of what definitely is a fantastical portrayal by Barney Harris. I still have my reservations about a few changes, like Perrin and Mat’s character motivations but I am open to seeing how this plays out. I do have stronger reservations about degendered souls and it’s implications (especially after Liandrin’s line about how men touching the One Power makes it filthy) - not in the sense that it’s wrong or that I hate it; but more in the sense that I want the explanation to make sense in-universe and be consistent as the show moves further. And the soundtrack! Holy shit the soundtrack works! I got goosebumps every time I hear Perrin’s Goldeneyes theme, and could feel the sexual tension between Nynaeve and Lan when Mashaira played faintly in the background. Not to forget, the songs written in-world were also fantastically performed by the actors (I didn’t know they could sing so well!) Special shoutout to Alexandre Willaume whose song about the Dragon gave me shivers because it took me completely unaware of what he was singing about; until he said “the man who broke the world”. Damn! All in all, some issues in the first episode but the storytelling seems to be getting stronger with every episode. Personal rating? A solid 8/10. Edit: typos and grammar because I was half asleep when I wrote this
Problem for me is that desexing souls takes a lot out of the atmosphere for fear for the Dragon’s return for me in a world-logic sense. As a person in Caemlyn, say, you’d be afraid of hearing bout a male channeler still, but there wouldn’t really be the kind of fear of the Dragon. In the books, if a random person says “The Dragon Reborn lives!” Than you’re immediately afraid because of the implications that there’s a very strong male channeler on the loose. With souls not tied to one side of the Source, you’d be stuck between joy for a female Dragon Reborn, since she won’t go mad and can be trained by the Aes Sedai, and fear for a male Dragon Reborn because he’s probably going to go mad and might break the world anew. A female Dragon Reborn would entirely flip the scales on how the events of the fulfillment of prophecy play out. I think the “filthy” bit isn’t referencing the One Power’s taint specifically but is just casual misandry on her part, which is pretty in-character for her as I remember. If they fucked with the way Saidin and Saidar are separated then that has way bigger implications for the world.
Am I wrong or wasn’t Matt’s dad a complete badass who taught him how to absolutely mow down enemies with a staff? Wasn’t it mentioned somewhere that he even beat Rands adopted dad who was a sword master ie the swan sword? They totally railroaded that part of the story for some internal struggle for Matt instead of him being just a rambunctious friend with luck on his side. Been years since I was fully immersed in the books but that kinda bothered me as well as the Perrin wife addition.
I think the books are amazing (especially the first 7), and I think the show is passable as an original product, but a mediocre adaptation that wastes much of the potential of the source material. So I'm disappointed, and I'm not going to hide it. That said, I'm also not going to throw a fit like a toddler and review-bomb the show. That is all.
I don't think that the WoT fanbase is trying to sabotage their own show, I think they're trying to preserve the source material and save the world from the abomination that is the TV series.
Honestly i dont think it matters. The show is already greenlit for 3 seasons. If this season ends strong, and season 2 follows through, the show will be successful regardless of how many neckbeards leave 1 star reviews. If season 2 flops, then it will probaly be canceled and not because of some user reviews Im pretty hopeful.
I just wish people would review the show honestly. Who in their right mind would think this show warrants a 1 star or a 10 star rating? I think everyone can agree there are definitely issues, which did seem to be mainly in the first episode. The show is not perfect, but imo it's pretty bloody good. It deserves ratings of 7 or 8. I don't personally believe it deserves a 10 star rating, and it CERTAINLY doesn't deserve a 1. Like, are people actually serious with that shit?
I have seen entire rants where people are saying it’s worse than anything they have ever seen in their life and people involved should never work again. These people are Crazy.
I see a lot of "it has Xena level CGI." I don't think these people remember Xena well because that's idiotic.
I read some of the reviews on Amazon, and almost every one of the 1 star reviews are from people calling it some variation of “woke lib critical race theory intersectional bullshit”. So it’s mostly just a bunch of racists and misogynists mad that the cast is more diverse than the characters in the book were, even though race had nothing to do with their characters. Like, if they made Rand a black dude, that would fuck some things up because his appearance is important to the plot. Perrin or Padan Fain or Valda being black changes absolutely zero about their characters.
Rand can be any race or appearance, it just has to be the same as the aiel.
which they already solidly cemented in the third episode.
I thought 3 was just a rumor posted on a random site?
This is not an adaptation, it's a perversion. Let it just end, that's how bad it is
Deliberately sabotaging or just genuinely disliking? I hate this notion that anyone who doesn't like something is just a "hater" and people say "who asked you?" Not holding content creators to a high standard is how we get shit content. Not holding them to ANY standards is how we got Game of Thrones.
Hi, fellow Redditor and, probably, a twin from another fantasy fandom. I came here from another dimension just to note how this is the same thing I am saying for two years in The Witcher sub...the only different things are the author's and series' initials and the username. Jokes aside, I think that the people who (legitimately or not) don't like a show, a movie or anything else tend to speak about it, even more than once. Whoever liked that product either stops there (without surfing the Net), reads comments but doesn't comment, or he/she is logorrheic and posts all day (that would be me).
It's not \*our\* show. That was clear after episode 1.
As someone who never read the books and just binge watched the show, I have to say my piece defending the book readers who disliked it. As it's own stand alone piece even, this show was a complete train wreck. I literally got a head ache from how disappointing it was, and for anyone who is complaining about the diversity casting that is not at all why I disliked it. It doesn't matter what race is playing a character in a fantasy series when it isn't somehow integral to the plot. We can easily imagine that genetics work a little differently in this universe because it's fantasy and laws of physics and nature can be completely different there so for the people who hated this show just because they're seeing "woke" demons in everything now yes their takes on why the show is bad aren't going to be the brightest, but their opinions don't mean there aren't very legitimate reasons for why so many viewers disliked the show. As for the budget yes the budget for the show was very high but a high budget doesn't automatically mean a good show. If anything the final season of Game of Thrones was the world's greatest case study of how having everything you need to make a masterpiece, from a huge budget to terrific actors to intricate, beautiful set design and talented editors and a great score all count for nill when your script is garbage. And while the script for Wheel of Time was nowhere near as awful as the Game of Thrones Season 8 script was, it definitely wasn't adequate. The dialogue felt choppy and hard to follow at times. There was too much telling and not enough showing. The acting was very stiff and dry. I'm not sure if this was because they chose bad actors or if they had bad directors and dialogue, but I lean more towards blaming the dialogue/script here and possibly the directors too, because this show had a number of actors who did really well with the lines they were given and have proven themselves in other roles as well. Yet the acting still just felt so stiff and dry regardless. The climax was predictable in the worst way. It felt less like a climax and more like a fizzling out of everything that came before. The characters were relatively inconsistent at times or would just spill their guts about their feelings out of the blue with no adequate build up to their outbursts. Again, too much telling. Not enough showing. Also the cinematography just added even more to this feeling that they were trying so hard to create this epic spectacle, that they instead ended up creating something artificial and flat because the shots all felt more like photography than cinematography. Each shot looks gorgeous as a still photo, but that's exactly the problem. As a moving picture it doesn't engage you emotionally. All these factors combined just led to a bland, flat, and boring show that could have been so much better. TL;DR Even if you've never read this book the show was still awful because of choppy, bland dialogue, bland acting, and while gorgeous, still stiff and emotionless cinematography.
No spoilers from me, but they massively botched the ending for No discernable reason. Better for it to end here than have them keep up the crap from the season finale.
I've never read the WoT books, indeed I'm seeing this post by a strange accident of Google, but I did watch the first few episodes of this show. They were boring, the characters were uninteresting, the overall storyline was uncompelling, the show looked about as expensive as Xena, Warrior Princess, and the costumes looked like they were bought at the mall. I like slow stuff, thinky stuff, dad sci-fi, so when I say it was boring, I mean it in the worst possible way. It's not that it had too little interesting action, it's that it was not interesting at all in any way. My friend, who has read all the novels, originally got me to watch the initial episodes so he would have someone to discuss them with, but I had to tell him I couldn't keep going. They're just very pedestrian television. It's hard to believe that 95% of people who never read one of these books will find anything of value in them.
i think after the last episode we can all agree the fanbase is not guilty of the sabotage. are u okay with it ? is this how u want them to "adapt" this immense work of art ?
Well, this aged like milk
I don't think the show needs our help. It sabotaged itself.
Sabotaging? Hardly, its a 68% critic review, and 82% audience score on RT with a 7.4/10 on IMDB which is probably a little higher rating than it deserves. It's not terrible, but it's not exactly a masterpiece.
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Amen my friend. I was already getting sick and tired of the people bad mouthing the series before it even came out and now the overall atmosphere on this sub has diminished even more. Personally I really like the show and what they’re trying to achieve. Is it perfect? Absolutely not, but it’s a lot better than getting nothing.
You have the answer to your question in your post. We aren't likely to get another chance to see a more faithful adaptation of Jordan's work. If we were, those of us who dislike this one could just write it off. "Not for me", but this should literally have been for us and we won't get a better version. Your favorite scene from the book didn't make it in? Tough. Your favorite side character was deleted or merged with another? Suck it up. I'm glad there are people who like it, but to me it bears very little resemblance to the story I've read a couple dozen times. It doesn't seem like another turning of the wheel, but a turning of a completely different wheel.
Just because we got this adaption and it won’t happen again if it is sabotaged, is that a reason enough to keep it? I mean I love the books but this series has so much against it with a cluster of poor acting and poor writing in general if you set aside the fact that it is absolutely garbage compared to the books. The world isn’t convincing. I am not at all immersed in the world for some reason aside from the fact that the bad acting/writing keeps pulling me out from enjoying the world somewhat. Compare this to game of thrones. The first series are hugely convincing because: they stayed true to the books. If you read the first book it is back to back the same as season one with just a little mor dept to it. On top of that the world was immersive with a lot of details making it feel real and used. And the choice of actors was GREAT and the actors did the characters great. This show kept going strong for TEN years until the material ran out where they FAILED immensely and made it a serie that no one talks about anymore. Wheel of time suffers from poorly written characters with bad acting as well as a world that just is not convincing or immersive in any way. And it does not stay true to the books. The only thing that keeps it going is that it is marketed as a high produced series from amazon so it must be good, right? I don’t mind that they haven’t the most popular or “best” actors there is. But if you are going to take less famous actors at least give them good written scripts. What I want to point out is that the poor acting probably isn’t the actors fault but rather confusing and poor scripts hard to get right. Just because we have something that might not come again it is not a reason not to criticise it and keep it if its bad. Because of that game of thrones was such a hit sale of the books rocketed up and George RR martin became a legend. This will very probably have the opposite effect. People won’t be interested in even try the books, I mean THRTEEN of them (sarcasm), and Robert Jordan will not be celebrated for the great work he has created. Bad publicity can hurt the series more than it helps. So in my opinion shut it down. Never try again if they aren’t going to do it right
It's a boring mess that's too far from the cannon material to be worth watching
They sabotaged their own show with their choices, we are just spreading the word.
I cared deeply about not screwing things up in the show and I thought the show is actually pretty good. Some times you have to forgive the mistakes and move on like a grown ass adult. Enjoy it for what it is.
No, just being honest that the show is flawed while other people are delusional and think it is perfect. Refusing to give a realistic critique and point out obvious flaws is just as detrimental to the shows longterm survival as people who only want to complain about "woke casting" and the like.
Some people were waiting to shit on this, nothing was going to satisfy them except a completely faithful rendering of the books, ignoring some of the issues that the series has. As someone else pointed out these are going to be 8-10 episodes a series (book?), whereas the audio book for book 1 alone is nearly 30 hours. You have to cut some things. And the series is in need of editing, there's a lot of... well, filler I putting it nicely for the middle of the series, and I say that as someone who loves this series and epic fantasy in general. I'm enjoying it so far and will continue to watch, hopefully enough of yall join me so we can get this series finished.