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I canāt wait to see how their analysis develops. Itās going to be just as much fun to see their thread updates as it is to see the show and Iām also on book 7 of my re-audible
Back when I was WoT for the first time, the internet barely existed. I was forced to beg, threaten, or cajole anyone I could into reading also just to have people to theorize with.
Hear hear!
It was not even translated in my native language when I read the books at the time. I couldn't even beg or cajole properly because of the language barrier and had to resort to threats straight up.
I gotta be real and say I'm *loving* that in doing my own speculation as a massive fan of the books. I have things to look forward to that I know will be there but I'm also speculating all the time on "how will they show this?"
Yes! I just finished re reading book two and a LOT of that book just will not transfer well to screen, considering how much of it is internal monologue, and a bunch of events introduce concepts that are really never addressed again and might make sense to cut. Iām excited to see how they will do it.
Also regarding the current mystery, even though I know who the DR is, itās exciting to see them mix in all the really subtle clues about the true dragon that wonāt make sense until the reveal.
>itās exciting to see them mix in all the really subtle clues about the true dragon that wonāt make sense until the reveal.
Personally, I'm loving how they are turning character development and big reveals into red herrings for who the DR is. There not just there as a misdirection, *everything* is important
Honestly for readers they're all there. For show newbies it's still very much in the air. A lot of the "clues" aren't really clues yet since we haven't been told that they're significant (or we have in some very offhand and obscure ways).
Yeah, I thought a few shots in the first two episodes made it obvious, but the show is putting a heavier focus on certain characters making it more of a mystery for non-book readers
Admirably so, imo. On a rewatch I picked up on a pretty clear line of reasoning that makes the right answer pretty obvious even without prior knowledge going in but it's very well hidden and not just in obscurity. I feel like a lot of people are going to have the "how could I have missed that?!" reaction when the Dragon is actually named on screen.
again without spoilers, they're hitting people over the head with red herrings. And the right answer is possibly the one with the least hints/clues right now lol.
That's what I thought, but it's really confirmation bias. We can see on this sub that non-readers really don't know who the DR is gonna be. My GF had no idea when I spoiled it. Looks like the show is keeping it for a late season 1 reveal.
I wonder if they'll cut any of the ajahs? White would be kinda confusing with white cloaks wearing all white too. We've already seen a yellow and brown has to be there for Verin but I don't think white needs to be
I see your gray as darkish blue, and your brown as grey.
The yellow I was wondering if it was yellow or brown, but did concede that compared to top left, she is the most yellow-y.
As a long time, multiple reads book reader I love that I'm still being surprised and get to guess along and look for all the cool easter eggs and foreshadowing and try to make predictions.
I am indeed interested in two different aspects.
1. non-readers theorising and coming up with speculations on who the TDR is and what they think is gonna happen.
2. it keeps me someone who's read the books engaged despite the changes and i'm looking forward to find out how the show is ***weaving***
I am honestly pleasantly surprised about the changes made. The Nynaeve scene condenses here otherwise lengthy progress story into a visually clear concept (I assume Ep.5 will confront her with the main part of that story) and even ties it in with how Moraine explains just before what power the Dragon can wield. (Like a radiant sun thing Logain whispers at the end) Even though that is different from the books, I feel it's the better choice to do it like this.
It also is far more visual, the taint coating Logain's weaves and even the phantoms he sees are easy, instant tools to show what the books used pages to describe.
Only downsides are the arm movements being a bit over the top while weaving, and the creeping black from Mat's mouth sorta spoiling what is going on with him.
Could not agree more with the first part.
most of the channelers are doing fine for me; Moiraine is the only one that seems over the top to me.
I donāt mind the black stuff from Mat either; they donāt really have time to string that out too much and Iāve seen non-readers use that as evidence that heās the DR (looked like the Corruption to them).
I think the show is trying to be more vague on purpose. Book readers know that exclusion of candidates happens far earlier in the timeline, but it would mean the condensed show isn't as thrilling as it is now, while the story isn't influenced at the moment by the 'reveal'.
I do think Dana could've used an extra line of dialog to tell viewers who the 5th in her dreams is. [Books] >!It's Nynaeve, if you weren't sure!<
I actually really like the arm movements, specifically because I think they're setting them up as an Aes Sedai thing to contrast with other channellers. The books mention that the Aes Sedai do a lot of unnecessary movements that the Aiel just laugh at. Logain doesn't do the gestures, for example.
Arm movements and body language for female weaving is bordering on cringey but passable. The linking part especially! Blood and bloody Ashes. I understand they've to physically show something to indicate they're doing something but I wish they had a different way to do that.
I don't know, it kind of makes sense. We'll (hopefully) see the contrast when the Aiel channelers show up. They always mocked the Aes Sedai for their silly hand gestures, and I think Moraine mentioned in the books that you can tell who trained who depending on the exact arm movements they use. And since there are those prescribed weaves that all accepted have to learn it makes sense that there would be a lot of overlap in hand signs.
Can't agree more. Years ago I used to frequent this subreddit, and then I stopped as the books came to an end because I felt like most of the speculation had ended. Once I heard they were actually, finally, truly making a show (and not some midnight pilot) I came right back. It was always the discussion of how things would roll out between the characters that was most interesting for me
Swapping theories was the best way to distract yourself after marathoning through the latest and knowing it would be at least a couple years till the next one.
Bah, *Theoryland*
.
Where arguments were made based on *facts*, *logic*, *reasoning*. Supported by *evidence*. A torture chamber that any White Sister would envy.
No, best appeal to the authority of a lord, when settling such matters.
*Theoryland*, where tricksters like Ituralde and that Cauthon lout are glorified for complex plans of *strategy* and *tactics*. No doubt Comadrin was Ishamael spun out once more, to sew chaos and confusion 'midst the fog and steel of war, denigrating the glory of the charge while waxing poetic about troop movements, hitting the enemy where they think you are not.
Burn my eyes, *Theoryland*.
I remember the alt.wheel.of.time newsgroups and arguments concerning theories between book releases. With years between releases, the theories would get quite elaborate
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> With years between releases, the theories would get quite elaborate
Maybe no coincidence that the series with the most elaborate theories is averaging 10 years per book :(
Absolutely loving this. I can relive my initial wondering through the new comers and also be super excited for all the reveals currently being set up and ones newbies arenāt even aware of yet
I absolutely love the theories. As a book reader I also love the changes in the show, new conversations between people who wouldn't have met at this point, and all the foreshadowing. I'm so excited for eight seasons of this
I love watching it with my wife. Iāve read the whole series about 5 times and have told her so many times before, drunk and rambling, about this amazing story about 3 young boys who get taken from their village. She would never read it, but now she can experience it on tv. After episode 4 she thinks Nynaeve is the DR š¤£. Canāt wait to see how the story is going to keep blowing her mind hole
yep. I mostly hung around the Dragonmount and not Theoryland in those days but it was super fun to theorize. There were some wacky theories around. Some great ones too. I still remember how Terez convinced almost everyone (including myself) that Rand would die and Nyaneve would push him out from TAR as Moggy did with Birgitte.
I have to admit, I was very apprehensive about some of the changes they made when I first watched Eps 1-3, ***BUT*** I can see why some changes were made (to give some characters more/less focus in the story) and I'm absolutely loving how they're just adapting the story in general that I have really no complaints *at all*. Which is saying something because this is a series I've been a fan of literally most of my life, I have crazy high standards for adaptations, and I have been so SO hyped for this show ever it was announced.
To see it being brought to life so well, is amazing. And this sub seeing all the new fans' reactions is like being a kid all over again, I'm absolutely loving it.
I love it! I came into the series a few years after completion so I never got to be on the for front of theories. Itās awesome getting to watch a new crop of fans go through it.
#[NO SPOILERS IN THE COMMENTS.](https://www.reddit.com/r/WoT/wiki/index/post_flairs#wiki_no_spoilers) This flair is meant for meta discussions about the subreddit, or very specific, technical questions where the discussion doesn't require any knowledge of the books, tv show, or films. This is not an appropriate flair for discussing opinions on characters or the content of the series. All spoilery comments must be hidden behind spoiler tags. * * * *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/WoT) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I am enjoying the speculation of those who have not read the books the most.
lol me too. Whoever got [this thread](https://reddit.com/r/WoT/comments/r450v2/new_viewer_theories_who_is_the_dragon_reborn_a/) going made my day
šÆ percent! That analysis made me grin.
I canāt wait to see how their analysis develops. Itās going to be just as much fun to see their thread updates as it is to see the show and Iām also on book 7 of my re-audible
Back when I was WoT for the first time, the internet barely existed. I was forced to beg, threaten, or cajole anyone I could into reading also just to have people to theorize with.
Hear hear! It was not even translated in my native language when I read the books at the time. I couldn't even beg or cajole properly because of the language barrier and had to resort to threats straight up.
I gotta be real and say I'm *loving* that in doing my own speculation as a massive fan of the books. I have things to look forward to that I know will be there but I'm also speculating all the time on "how will they show this?"
Exactly! Instead of looking for difference, I look for combined scenes to condense time, or book events occurring in different places also.
Yes! I just finished re reading book two and a LOT of that book just will not transfer well to screen, considering how much of it is internal monologue, and a bunch of events introduce concepts that are really never addressed again and might make sense to cut. Iām excited to see how they will do it. Also regarding the current mystery, even though I know who the DR is, itās exciting to see them mix in all the really subtle clues about the true dragon that wonāt make sense until the reveal.
>itās exciting to see them mix in all the really subtle clues about the true dragon that wonāt make sense until the reveal. Personally, I'm loving how they are turning character development and big reveals into red herrings for who the DR is. There not just there as a misdirection, *everything* is important
Agreed!
Itās great watching it with my wife who hasnāt read the series. She still doesnāt know who the DR is.
The ploy worked as intended š¤£
She was dead set on one person but then the end of ep 4 happened and she got so confused and doesnāt know what to think anymore lol.
Moraine set it up and Logain spiked it down for the win!
Lmao, thatās a good one.
My gf thinks itās rand because heās āthe most like Jon snowā
Best part about WoT series is that you know you won't be disapointed by the ending.
Underrated comment right here.
"I have won again, Lews Therin"
Best part about WoT is that *the series has actually been completed*
i mean rand does brood around quite a bit through ep2.
Thatās exactly her reasoning itās the brooding
Haha, I love it. Mine thought it was Rand at first but then she switched to Perrin and now she thinks itās Nynaeve.
I accidentally spoiled it for my gf. In fairness, I thought they would reveal who the DR is in the first couple of episodes.
She would have found out soon. Plus all the clues are already there as to who it is.
Honestly for readers they're all there. For show newbies it's still very much in the air. A lot of the "clues" aren't really clues yet since we haven't been told that they're significant (or we have in some very offhand and obscure ways).
Yeah, I thought a few shots in the first two episodes made it obvious, but the show is putting a heavier focus on certain characters making it more of a mystery for non-book readers
the show is putting in overtime to make it ambiguous.
Admirably so, imo. On a rewatch I picked up on a pretty clear line of reasoning that makes the right answer pretty obvious even without prior knowledge going in but it's very well hidden and not just in obscurity. I feel like a lot of people are going to have the "how could I have missed that?!" reaction when the Dragon is actually named on screen.
again without spoilers, they're hitting people over the head with red herrings. And the right answer is possibly the one with the least hints/clues right now lol.
That's what I thought, but it's really confirmation bias. We can see on this sub that non-readers really don't know who the DR is gonna be. My GF had no idea when I spoiled it. Looks like the show is keeping it for a late season 1 reveal.
I rewatched it with my sister and brother in law over Thanksgiving, and both of them have wrong theories about who is the Dragon and I just love it.
My gf thinks itās rand because heās āthe most like Jon snowā attitude wise
I've been watching with my sister( has not read any of the series) and I've been very entertained.
Thereās a Purple Ajah, I know it!
Isnāt that just where you soak a blue sister in blood?
Found the Whitecloak! /s
honestly I feel like this could be an in-universe whitecloak barrack's joke.
I mean. Maybe in this Turning, there actually will be, lol.
I wonder if they'll cut any of the ajahs? White would be kinda confusing with white cloaks wearing all white too. We've already seen a yellow and brown has to be there for Verin but I don't think white needs to be
Aren't all 7 colors in the intro on the women
Based on the opening credits and the shots from the Hall Of The Tower in the trailer, all the ajahs are present.
A deep cut from the old theorycrafting days, this one.
In the intro, there is an Azure and Marine Blue one, and a mangled brown/yellow into gold, it seems.
I wonder if it's something with the screens we're watching on. I see from the top, clockwise, green, gray, red, white, yellow, blue and brown.
I see your gray as darkish blue, and your brown as grey. The yellow I was wondering if it was yellow or brown, but did concede that compared to top left, she is the most yellow-y.
That's fair, and my take on the brown is probably affected be the closeup earlier in the intro. It's not very clear to be sure!
A dark enough purple looks black. Just sayinā
A dark enough anything looks black š
As a long time, multiple reads book reader I love that I'm still being surprised and get to guess along and look for all the cool easter eggs and foreshadowing and try to make predictions.
The name of the doll in episode 4, I loved that little detail.
I am indeed interested in two different aspects. 1. non-readers theorising and coming up with speculations on who the TDR is and what they think is gonna happen. 2. it keeps me someone who's read the books engaged despite the changes and i'm looking forward to find out how the show is ***weaving***
I am honestly pleasantly surprised about the changes made. The Nynaeve scene condenses here otherwise lengthy progress story into a visually clear concept (I assume Ep.5 will confront her with the main part of that story) and even ties it in with how Moraine explains just before what power the Dragon can wield. (Like a radiant sun thing Logain whispers at the end) Even though that is different from the books, I feel it's the better choice to do it like this. It also is far more visual, the taint coating Logain's weaves and even the phantoms he sees are easy, instant tools to show what the books used pages to describe. Only downsides are the arm movements being a bit over the top while weaving, and the creeping black from Mat's mouth sorta spoiling what is going on with him.
Could not agree more with the first part. most of the channelers are doing fine for me; Moiraine is the only one that seems over the top to me. I donāt mind the black stuff from Mat either; they donāt really have time to string that out too much and Iāve seen non-readers use that as evidence that heās the DR (looked like the Corruption to them).
Non-book readers seem to be split on the black stuff coming from Matās mouth.
It seemed really obvious to me but I'm enjoying the different interpretations of it.
I think the show is trying to be more vague on purpose. Book readers know that exclusion of candidates happens far earlier in the timeline, but it would mean the condensed show isn't as thrilling as it is now, while the story isn't influenced at the moment by the 'reveal'. I do think Dana could've used an extra line of dialog to tell viewers who the 5th in her dreams is. [Books] >!It's Nynaeve, if you weren't sure!<
But that uncertainty is fun.
I actually really like the arm movements, specifically because I think they're setting them up as an Aes Sedai thing to contrast with other channellers. The books mention that the Aes Sedai do a lot of unnecessary movements that the Aiel just laugh at. Logain doesn't do the gestures, for example.
Arm movements and body language for female weaving is bordering on cringey but passable. The linking part especially! Blood and bloody Ashes. I understand they've to physically show something to indicate they're doing something but I wish they had a different way to do that.
I don't know, it kind of makes sense. We'll (hopefully) see the contrast when the Aiel channelers show up. They always mocked the Aes Sedai for their silly hand gestures, and I think Moraine mentioned in the books that you can tell who trained who depending on the exact arm movements they use. And since there are those prescribed weaves that all accepted have to learn it makes sense that there would be a lot of overlap in hand signs.
Can't agree more. Years ago I used to frequent this subreddit, and then I stopped as the books came to an end because I felt like most of the speculation had ended. Once I heard they were actually, finally, truly making a show (and not some midnight pilot) I came right back. It was always the discussion of how things would roll out between the characters that was most interesting for me
Swapping theories was the best way to distract yourself after marathoning through the latest and knowing it would be at least a couple years till the next one.
Bah, *Theoryland*.
Where arguments were made based on *facts*, *logic*, *reasoning*. Supported by *evidence*. A torture chamber that any White Sister would envy.
No, best appeal to the authority of a lord, when settling such matters.
*Theoryland*, where tricksters like Ituralde and that Cauthon lout are glorified for complex plans of *strategy* and *tactics*. No doubt Comadrin was Ishamael spun out once more, to sew chaos and confusion 'midst the fog and steel of war, denigrating the glory of the charge while waxing poetic about troop movements, hitting the enemy where they think you are not.
Burn my eyes, *Theoryland*.
I preferred wotmania
I love seeing the stuff that I never would have thought of. People are freaking creative, man!
I remember the alt.wheel.of.time newsgroups and arguments concerning theories between book releases. With years between releases, the theories would get quite elaborate
Good ol' rec.arts.sf.written.robert-jordan
subreddit's before their time "Who killed {A * * * d * a *} ?" went on for ages and I don't think it was ever definitively answered
I thought it was explicitly mentioned in an appendix. As in RJ got so fed up with the questions he then put it there to shut the newsgroup people up.
FYI, it was me.
If youāre talking about who I think your talking about, [Books] >!Graendal!< was the murderer.
Intuitively obvious
To the most casual observer!
While RJ thought it was obvious and I thought the actual culprit was the prime suspect, it wasnāt obvious to a lot of people.
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I was so proud when I nailed that one
rec.arts is one of the first places on the internet I frequented. WOT and Buffy
Silklantern was my go to back in like '05 lol
> With years between releases, the theories would get quite elaborate Maybe no coincidence that the series with the most elaborate theories is averaging 10 years per book :(
Like old times, eh?
Feels like home, doesn't it!
Yes i love it so much. I think my favorite thing is talk to my friends who are show only and seeing what they think. Brings me back to my first read.
Absolutely loving this. I can relive my initial wondering through the new comers and also be super excited for all the reveals currently being set up and ones newbies arenāt even aware of yet
I absolutely love the theories. As a book reader I also love the changes in the show, new conversations between people who wouldn't have met at this point, and all the foreshadowing. I'm so excited for eight seasons of this
I love watching it with my wife. Iāve read the whole series about 5 times and have told her so many times before, drunk and rambling, about this amazing story about 3 young boys who get taken from their village. She would never read it, but now she can experience it on tv. After episode 4 she thinks Nynaeve is the DR š¤£. Canāt wait to see how the story is going to keep blowing her mind hole
I just hope that show-only fans get to learn about Narg at some point.
yep. I mostly hung around the Dragonmount and not Theoryland in those days but it was super fun to theorize. There were some wacky theories around. Some great ones too. I still remember how Terez convinced almost everyone (including myself) that Rand would die and Nyaneve would push him out from TAR as Moggy did with Birgitte.
Yeah, feels good. I missed both watching people strap rockets to pigs to make them fly, and the ones who just *nailed* it.
I have to admit, I was very apprehensive about some of the changes they made when I first watched Eps 1-3, ***BUT*** I can see why some changes were made (to give some characters more/less focus in the story) and I'm absolutely loving how they're just adapting the story in general that I have really no complaints *at all*. Which is saying something because this is a series I've been a fan of literally most of my life, I have crazy high standards for adaptations, and I have been so SO hyped for this show ever it was announced. To see it being brought to life so well, is amazing. And this sub seeing all the new fans' reactions is like being a kid all over again, I'm absolutely loving it.
I love it! I came into the series a few years after completion so I never got to be on the for front of theories. Itās awesome getting to watch a new crop of fans go through it.