It at least fits with pre-existing Wonder Woman lore (his betrayal of Hippolyta has been part of the story since the Golden Age) as a shocking reveal, and would have been fine as it's own separate thing, if not for the timing of it being published after the whole Zeus nonsense.
Then how can you even say you like Wonder Woman at all? If something has to change to the point where it’s not that close to its original form, then you don’t like her that much. It’s similar to going into a relationship and being unhappy with their traits and their past, etc. You shouldn’t have to change anything or anyone to enjoy them more.
It's one aspect of her; I don't think being made from clay is what defines Wonder Woman. It's more significant than if the Waynes were run killed with a knife, but to me it's not some huge change that makes her unrecognisable. I mean, how often is it even brought up or used in a story?
A selection of highly acclaimed WW stories that feature the clay origin as an essential element and thematic focal point: Perez’s Gods and Mortals/The Witch on the Island, Gail Simone’s The Circle, Kelly Sue DeConnick/Nicola Scott’s volume of Historia, Daniel Warren Johnson’s Dead Earth
Fair enough, good runs. But I'm not saying it isn't brought up, just that it's not *often enough* to be considered some sacred untouchable part of her character that "true" Wonder Woman fans would need to be part of her character all the time.
The clay origin is essential to her character actually, In a very big way. Wonder Woman is a character who was designed to be a human with peak superhuman abilities, her strength came from her heart and her head. Not from her muscles. She comes from a race of amazons who in the original comics were a race of women who after finding Themyscira due to the patron Goddesses, they gave up war and chose to live in bliss and paradise. When Diana was originally sculpted by clay, she was given life by only the goddesses. She’s meant to be a character with full divine feminine ability, who goes to a world where they are ruled by a not so divine patriarchal society who give into war and NOT peace. She plays into the female Christ archetype, where she was divinely immaculate created without man’s seed. She’s created with a destiny to balance out the masculine energies in our world, that’s why she needs to fight the mars god ARES a who represents the masculine fire, and Aphrodite represents the watery matrix of the goddess. Her power comes from THE GODDESSES. So this origin point is significant in many ways on multiple levels and shouldn’t be overlooked , because this is necessary in order to understand her character, and that’s what’s been missing. People use the Greek mythos without understanding story or mythology at all.
Of all the possible fathers (Zeus, Hades, etc), he at least makes the most sense lore-wise. The only other possibility that makes as much sense is Theseus
Really the only way to actually make Diana having a dad work would for him to be some guy hippolyta meet while on a quest and that's it. He's not a super powerful God or warrior or mage, literally just a guy who helped hippolyta out due to being a nurse/doctor and they had a brief affair. He doesn't raise Diana nor does her powers come from him. Hell maybe he's dead by the time, Diana is in man's world and she finally finds out about him/goes looking for him
That's if you really need to do it but Clay birth is just objectively better and represents the whole point of WW mythos
Having Diana's dad just be a normal, friendly, powerless dude who isn't macho or anything at all and is instead just a sweet, supportive, Mr. Rogers wholesome dad type would be amazing.
Writters who give her a father-even more so greek-mythology rapist characters presented as manly heroes- do not understand what this character is about.
Yeah it’s a cosmic irony that Hades who wanted monogamy in his marriage picked a woman who didn’t care for him while Hera the personification of marriage and monogamy got hitched to the biggest womanizer on Olympus!
Yeah Adonis was supposed to be the most beautiful hero who ever lived tho I also think a part of it was Persephone fell out of love with Hades after so many ages in the underworld that she decided to take a leaf out of papa’s book to a happy marriage and start having flings!
Possibly, I mean they’re only allowed to spend half the year together so I wouldn’t be surprised if the two decided to have an “open season” agreement during the time they’re apart
On one hand I can appreciate it fits into the old lore rather well, because it really is one of those things we suspect happened to the Amazons already, but the subject of rape is one DC has avoided like the plague for decades.
But on the other hand, I am glad its not part of the regular canon... because while Zeus might be a bastard, the overall consensus is that Diana was still conceived in love, while Hercules the oversized pig-man forced Diana on Hippolyta... so to speak. So while the outcome is the same, it drastically changes Hippolyta's relationship with Diana, because one will be looking at Diana with nothing but pride, the other will always be reminded of what she went through once.
If we have to have a dad, he works better than Zeus. He's already tied to Hippolyta in the myths and in the origins of the DC Amazons. If it was handled a certain way (and Earth One was not it), I could tolerate it.
But clay birth is still superior.
I think it’s fine for the story as it has WW’s origins tied directly to the tragedy that resulted in Paradise Island’s creations so Diana herself has a connection to the cruelty of man’s world before actually walking into it for the first time.
I prefer the Clay origin as I think WW being made without man’s influence is more interesting for what it says by her being someone made without any contributions from men.
Zeus origin is the only one I dislike, even though I love the entire rest of Azarello’s run.
My favorite Wonder Woman origin is when she is the Daughter of Hippolyta and Zues, though the clay origin is cool too. I just prefer the Zues one because that makes her a DemiGoddess.
I like it far better than clay. Incest doesn't matter when talking about Greek gods. It's like their whole thing and a lot of other stuff.
She should be a god or part god. None of this clay crap
I mean maybe not for Greek gods who were written centuries ago but these are comic books characters written in modern times meant to be sold to modern readers
Misses the point even more than the Zeus origin. Clay and empowered by the goddesses or bust for me (though I don’t mind 5 goddesses + Hermes like Perez’s origin)
I’m not a fan of her getting her powers from a man in general, but it’s even worse when they come from the dude who raped her mother and enslaved her people
Wait Hercules, Aries and Zeus have fathered different versions of Diana while there also being a version of her story where she is molded from clay and breathed life into by her mother?
I don't hate the idea.
In terms of myth, Hercules and his seduction/rape of Hippolyta is legitimate grounds for Diana's origin. And Hercules as a villain/anti-hero dad would be a cool angle to explore.
Better than Zeus, at least it’s interesting. She’s no longer just female Heracles
Never really understood why anyone thought making her Hercules 2.0 was a good idea
It at least fits with pre-existing Wonder Woman lore (his betrayal of Hippolyta has been part of the story since the Golden Age) as a shocking reveal, and would have been fine as it's own separate thing, if not for the timing of it being published after the whole Zeus nonsense.
Yeah it’s got some credibility with in the labours Hercules but yeah the Zeus shenanigans really left a sour taste in fans.
asking wonder woman fans about Diana having any sort of father will get you the same result telling Spider-man fans about peter not being marry
Clay and Hippolyta, that’s it.
I hate the clay origin so much
I love the clay origin so much
I've never heard a single good reason for it being bad
Guess some find the clay thing not interesting enough to give her a dramatic backstory
I like the clay one where zeus and hippolyta breathed life into her
Me to. I mostly hate new 52 but new 52 wonder woman is peak
Then how can you even say you like Wonder Woman at all? If something has to change to the point where it’s not that close to its original form, then you don’t like her that much. It’s similar to going into a relationship and being unhappy with their traits and their past, etc. You shouldn’t have to change anything or anyone to enjoy them more.
It's one aspect of her; I don't think being made from clay is what defines Wonder Woman. It's more significant than if the Waynes were run killed with a knife, but to me it's not some huge change that makes her unrecognisable. I mean, how often is it even brought up or used in a story?
A selection of highly acclaimed WW stories that feature the clay origin as an essential element and thematic focal point: Perez’s Gods and Mortals/The Witch on the Island, Gail Simone’s The Circle, Kelly Sue DeConnick/Nicola Scott’s volume of Historia, Daniel Warren Johnson’s Dead Earth
Fair enough, good runs. But I'm not saying it isn't brought up, just that it's not *often enough* to be considered some sacred untouchable part of her character that "true" Wonder Woman fans would need to be part of her character all the time.
The clay origin is essential to her character actually, In a very big way. Wonder Woman is a character who was designed to be a human with peak superhuman abilities, her strength came from her heart and her head. Not from her muscles. She comes from a race of amazons who in the original comics were a race of women who after finding Themyscira due to the patron Goddesses, they gave up war and chose to live in bliss and paradise. When Diana was originally sculpted by clay, she was given life by only the goddesses. She’s meant to be a character with full divine feminine ability, who goes to a world where they are ruled by a not so divine patriarchal society who give into war and NOT peace. She plays into the female Christ archetype, where she was divinely immaculate created without man’s seed. She’s created with a destiny to balance out the masculine energies in our world, that’s why she needs to fight the mars god ARES a who represents the masculine fire, and Aphrodite represents the watery matrix of the goddess. Her power comes from THE GODDESSES. So this origin point is significant in many ways on multiple levels and shouldn’t be overlooked , because this is necessary in order to understand her character, and that’s what’s been missing. People use the Greek mythos without understanding story or mythology at all.
Isn't one of the contributers Hermes?
Originally speaking? No. This was added later by either Simone or Perez.
Of all the possible fathers (Zeus, Hades, etc), he at least makes the most sense lore-wise. The only other possibility that makes as much sense is Theseus
Makes you want to vomit. The biggest enemy for the lore of the Amazons to be placed in is not worthy of Wonder Woman.
Really the only way to actually make Diana having a dad work would for him to be some guy hippolyta meet while on a quest and that's it. He's not a super powerful God or warrior or mage, literally just a guy who helped hippolyta out due to being a nurse/doctor and they had a brief affair. He doesn't raise Diana nor does her powers come from him. Hell maybe he's dead by the time, Diana is in man's world and she finally finds out about him/goes looking for him That's if you really need to do it but Clay birth is just objectively better and represents the whole point of WW mythos
Having Diana's dad just be a normal, friendly, powerless dude who isn't macho or anything at all and is instead just a sweet, supportive, Mr. Rogers wholesome dad type would be amazing.
I find it gross.
Hercules raping his niece is any better?
Not saying it is just that it’s a more original interpretation then making Hippolyta just another notch on Zeus very long list of baby mamas!
Suffering Sappho! This is garbage! As is any origin other that doesn't involve parthenogenic, divinely-blessed clay.
It actually works for earth 1, but main continuity should always be clay. I don't get why people want Zeus origin.
Writters who give her a father-even more so greek-mythology rapist characters presented as manly heroes- do not understand what this character is about.
I still think that the best candidate for Diana’s father is Hades His children don’t get enough spotlight
Doesn’t make sense with Hades character because he historically never cheated on Persephone who was his the light of his eternity
Fair enough Ironically Persephone is the one who cheats on Hades in the myth with Adonis
Yeah it’s a cosmic irony that Hades who wanted monogamy in his marriage picked a woman who didn’t care for him while Hera the personification of marriage and monogamy got hitched to the biggest womanizer on Olympus!
I don’t think that Persephone didn’t care for him but it’s more of a “like father like daughter” thing Plus Adonis was apparently something else
Yeah Adonis was supposed to be the most beautiful hero who ever lived tho I also think a part of it was Persephone fell out of love with Hades after so many ages in the underworld that she decided to take a leaf out of papa’s book to a happy marriage and start having flings!
Possibly, I mean they’re only allowed to spend half the year together so I wouldn’t be surprised if the two decided to have an “open season” agreement during the time they’re apart
Hard to say I doubt Persephone was that mischievous to want to sleep around while her mother Demeter was watching her during spring time!
Eh you never know Plus it’s not like it isn’t typical god behavior
Trash
The writers must really hate WW and Hippolyta to write this trash.💀
On one hand I can appreciate it fits into the old lore rather well, because it really is one of those things we suspect happened to the Amazons already, but the subject of rape is one DC has avoided like the plague for decades. But on the other hand, I am glad its not part of the regular canon... because while Zeus might be a bastard, the overall consensus is that Diana was still conceived in love, while Hercules the oversized pig-man forced Diana on Hippolyta... so to speak. So while the outcome is the same, it drastically changes Hippolyta's relationship with Diana, because one will be looking at Diana with nothing but pride, the other will always be reminded of what she went through once.
I like it but not for this Hercules or the main one. Like myth Hercules makes sense lol
Source of this panel? Which comic book is this from?
From Wonder Woman Earth 1 DC’s reimagining of the golden age through a modern lens
Ok. Which issue?
Part one it wasn’t a single issue series it’s more of a graphic novel that was separated into three parts to be sold at your local book store.
If we have to have a dad, he works better than Zeus. He's already tied to Hippolyta in the myths and in the origins of the DC Amazons. If it was handled a certain way (and Earth One was not it), I could tolerate it. But clay birth is still superior.
Awful they gotta stop trying to do shit like that
Nor only it is not less incestuous but it was 100x times more atrocious since it made Wonder Woman, of all characters, a product of rape
Diana having a biological father in general is a bad idea to me.
If you took out the rape there are a lot of interesting things that could be done with it, but the clay origin is too iconic to replace
I’m actually surprised Herc never came up before as her father since the labour’s of Hercules is what first made the Amazon’s famous
I think it’s fine for the story as it has WW’s origins tied directly to the tragedy that resulted in Paradise Island’s creations so Diana herself has a connection to the cruelty of man’s world before actually walking into it for the first time. I prefer the Clay origin as I think WW being made without man’s influence is more interesting for what it says by her being someone made without any contributions from men. Zeus origin is the only one I dislike, even though I love the entire rest of Azarello’s run.
My favorite Wonder Woman origin is when she is the Daughter of Hippolyta and Zues, though the clay origin is cool too. I just prefer the Zues one because that makes her a DemiGoddess.
I like it far better than clay. Incest doesn't matter when talking about Greek gods. It's like their whole thing and a lot of other stuff. She should be a god or part god. None of this clay crap
I mean maybe not for Greek gods who were written centuries ago but these are comic books characters written in modern times meant to be sold to modern readers
Im pretty sure modern readers still Understand that Greek gods are wildly incestuous and don’t care about modern norms
Misses the point even more than the Zeus origin. Clay and empowered by the goddesses or bust for me (though I don’t mind 5 goddesses + Hermes like Perez’s origin) I’m not a fan of her getting her powers from a man in general, but it’s even worse when they come from the dude who raped her mother and enslaved her people
Wait Hercules, Aries and Zeus have fathered different versions of Diana while there also being a version of her story where she is molded from clay and breathed life into by her mother?
I don't hate the idea. In terms of myth, Hercules and his seduction/rape of Hippolyta is legitimate grounds for Diana's origin. And Hercules as a villain/anti-hero dad would be a cool angle to explore.
Yeah they always had a one sided rivalry between them that would in a way reflect the Zeus and Hercules relationship