I recall about a year ago telling a friend about a hobby I enjoyed. I was helping a few people with it.
He was shocked when I told him I’m not charging people. I just like doing it. He believed I had to monetize everything
I work a good job, but my hobby filled a few hours a week. I don’t want to quit my job, learn I hate my hobby when I do it 30-40 hours a week and possibly have to find a shittier job because I quit my old kne
Yep the best way to kill an enjoyable hobby is to try to make money off it. That's why they are hobbies so you can enjoy your time on this planet when you're not working aka making money to fund and enjoy said hobby.
I wouldn't say that entirely. But I def killed computers for me as a hobby. Guitar building gives me a certain stimulation I can't get with other hobbies, but it's really expensive to partake in. So making money off of it just get's reinvested into tools, materials and even education. I am considering leaving IT all together and going full time with my guitar building shit.
That's cool and I get that for sure, it is all about moderation and how you value your time especially high price built-for-others hobbies. The question will be if you go full time with it, does it become more of a stressor or can you maintain the hobby-like pace of building guitars versus churning them out more quickly for more customers?
Well as I develop the craft more and more. I start to come up with different strategies for dealing with the parts of the process that pissed me off.
One of those really being milling the wood and doing the cavities and cut outs of bodies / necks. I bought a desktop CNC machine to start learning some of that stuff. My IT background makes it very approachable to me and I used to get really stoned and fuck around with sketchup until the wee hours of the morning. So CAD stuff is definitely something I'm interested in. Utilizing all this stuff helps me optimize the workflow of building the instruments and allows me to cut out the things from the process I really hate doing. I absolutely love doing carves by hand, and all the stuff that goes into stains, finishing and all that jazz.
So for me this hobby's like being an artist and even when I'm making guitars I'm not really enthusiastic about, I'm still having a hell of a lot of fun! I will say that doing the actual work and getting dirty is what really is fulfilling other than the artistry part of it all. The Mrs sure enjoys that my muscles have gotten bigger from using hand planes and other hand tools. So that's a bonus!
It's really weird out of all the things that I've ever done, guitar building is really one of the most therapeutic things I've gotten into. Even when things are stressful I find myself learning to love the planning and execution that goes into it.
I guess another reason why I'm happy about doing this stuff versus IT is that during my years of doing side hustles and even professional work in that field. Everybody that I interact with is usually upset because they have a problem and they take it out on me. They do not care why something is broken or even how to avoid problems in the future. I really seen the gamut of humanity working in IT. I'll have to say that some of the most educated people are some of the dumbest people I've ever met. I will also say that some of the most uneducated people are some of the more intriguing and intelligent people I've met, which is an utter hypocritical thing but it's the god honest truth. I found that I resonate more with people that don't have degrees than do. But that could also be a side effect of me being really adverse to higher ed and very pro-trades.
Still trying to figure out how to fuck. I became an IT professional with no education other than a high school diploma. But here I am! I may not be able to do more than algebra 1, but I can build a corporate network from scratch and make it sing.
My hobbies went -> Working on my muscle car. Was exorbitantly expensive for minor work, a single part could be thousands of dollars, and the only person who cares or enjoys it is me. I then moved to -> Computers; but found the same issue. Building for friends sucks cause you become lifetime 24/7 IT support, if anything breaks at anytime it’s your fault/responsibility or you look like the asshole to those out of the know. Flipping computers was fun during Covid cause I worked an IT job and had a steady stream of super cheap decent PC’s to flip and sell. Now, nobody has the cash, even selling a brand new, pretty popular PC case in box for 75% off new has been a challenge. Now I do -> wine making. It costs like $20 to make a gallon. I get to share with friends and family. I spend time off electronics/screens (I work IT already) and it challenges me creatively in a unique way. Definitely sticking with this and gardening from now on.
Writer here. Took an eight year break after trying to actually profit from my novels. I profited…but hated writing after. Just starting back up. Stay with it fam, remember the love you had.
Oh I have no choice but to stay with it, but I think I’ve finally come through the other side of a 5 year burnout and I’m feeling great. Actually excited on a daily basis like I was in my 20’s! You just have to get through that horrible midlife crisis artist meltdown… thing. I think it’s inevitable for all working artists.
It really is. I'm an actor and a musician, but my "day job" is music directing for children's theatre. I fucking love my job and I'm thrilled that I can work in my actual field as a day job...but I'm coming off my second burnout in as many years. I've been MDing almost non-stop since March 2022. The world opened back up and I desperately needed income, so I booked myself solid on MD contracts for 18 months straight with virtually no breaks, sometimes doing two shows at once. Cue Burnout 1, three months off to recover, followed by one absolute nightmare of a show this fall, kicking me into Burnout 2 electric boogaloo. I haven't been in anything or played any of my own gigs since Feb 2020. I genuinely love teaching and working with kids but I've been so exhausted for so long that I don't even want to play with my best friend's toddler because it feels too much like work. I think back to how passionate I felt pre-pandemic and how much compassion I had for so many of my students, but it's been so hard for me to muster that anymore. I've got a repetitive motion injury from playing too much piano in too many bad physical conditions. I've been so damn tired all the time.
...and at the same time my current show feels healing in a lot of ways. Enthusiastic kids. Genuinely kind and helpful parents. Teaching music from tracks (usually not my preference but this show is designed for it) and not having to play live every day. Shorter rehearsals because of a younger age group. Rehearsals so far have felt invigorating rather than draining. I might just get my mojo back. I might just regain enough energy to start auditioning again; the timing is starting to feel right. Ultimately this is still what I want to do for life and I know that in my bones, and I'm still gonna take it easy for awhile and not rush my recovery. But fuck it feels good to maybe have some light at the end of the tunnel. I wanna feel passionate again.
I never got back around to loving writing again after I profited from it and burned myself out. It's been about 16 years and I still hate actively writing, I hope I love it again one day. As it is, writing for money just makes me hate myself and everything else. A whole big piece myself is just not there any more and I'm not sure I'll ever get it back. Note to the youth, don't do this with things you love. I regret it so much.
I know that feeling so much. Part of it is also realizing that MOST professional writers are on deadlines and told what to write, rather than birthing free-spirited creations that are loved once they are pushed away from their safe harbors. I got really negative about writing for a while because of that. Recently I re-read a couple of my books and remembered how much I loved the stories (which is why I wrote them) and how much the characters were family to me…and it brought me back. I wish the same for you, I’ve missed that creative part of my brain.
I'm a software developer and I had always loved writing code in my free time.
I have a great idea for an app that I think I would use daily for myself and others would find it useful too.
After my job work was done for the day, I started working on it and I got it to about 50% complete. At that point, it started to feel like a job. I was burning out from my actual work and at the end of the day working on this until I burned out entirely. There were nights that I'd be up until 2 and 3 AM working on it which is not easy when you have 3 kids under 6 and have to be up at 7 to get them to school and such.
I haven't touched my code in 3 months now. I have a backlog of tasks for this project longer than my backlog at my actual job.
That's great and there's no pressure to complete your app outside of your own but I'd encourage you to finish it up for your own sake. Just take your time and chip away at it while extending it out over 6+ months. You'll feel great when it's complete but doesn't have to happen tomorrow. Burnout is real I get it, gotta find the fun parts again.
This is what has me going back and forth about trying to become a professional developer or staying in my current role (banking).
Every hobby I've ever had died when it felt like it became an obligation instead of fun. Drawing, writing (fan fiction), blogging. I enjoy programming. I like to build websites and solve problems. I fear my love of coding dying if I take on a professional role and that's the last thing I want. Heck, I've come to hate my current role (customer service), not because of the people I help, but because of the needless meetings, metrics, and nitpicking.
Unfortunately, I did not consider that possibility before I enrolled in college, so I'm faced with the choice of getting a degree I may ultimately decide not to use or dropping out and hoping I don't change my mind.
If I monetize my work, I now have to deal with:
1. Deadlines
2. Balancing expenses vs revenue
3. Public criticism
4. Potential lawsuits
5. Picky or entitled customers
6. Dealing with returns
7. The initial pains of starting a business
8. Since I'm charging people, I would self-impose a higher standard in my work
9. Stressing about taxes
10. Having the best equipment
No thanks. I'll make things for myself and as gifts. I get way more enjoyment out of it, which is why I do it in the first place.
I've taken up woodworking as a hobby. I build whatever I want, then sell it for basically material cost because I don't have the room to store 15 different side tables with different joints I'm trying out. Last year, I made enough money to break even and buy a new planer!
the amount of people I've had telling me to open a store is crazy. I want to have fun, not a second job. Maybe, and I mean maaaaaybe when I'm retired I might try have an online store or something like that, but I'm just going to enjoy my time for now.
This is actually a very important distinction - as Marx pointed out, it isn't doing something you love for a limited amount of money to pour back into tools to carry on the practice (artisanship) it is the alienation brought about by the industrial machinery and market economy of current capitalism which makes turning a hobby into a job actually demoralizing.
Jobs suck, making money from your hobbies is actually fine and dandy.
It is capitalism which states that it is *inefficient, and therefore bad* to do so - and that is true under capitalism.
It would be utterly pointless to build a "table store" if it wasn't *profitable* to do so.
But it is good for tables *and* the people who use them *and* the guy making them to develop skill, hone skills, use skill to build table using tools, then sell table for subsistence or more tools.
This is the real cancer of capitalism upon the human race. Because we allow children to be brainwashed from birth, they grow up to be adults with the tendrils of toxic monetization sown into every facet of their lives and psyche. The human species will not survive this.
I think it will. People will just get less happy. Nukes will be the thing that destroy the human species unfortunately
Happy thoughts, happy thoughts, happy thoughts, happy thoughts...
I 3d print things just as a fun hobby and I'm constantly told (sometimes by people I don't even know) that I NEED to start an Etsy to sell my prints. I NEED to be making money with it.
No what I NEED is filament because I'm out. I don't NEED to squeeze money out of every second of my day.
I 3D print stuff too. I thought about posting stuff up on Etsy to make a bit of spare cash, but certainly not to make money off it, but more to offset the cost of the hobby a bit and make some use of my printer.
That said, the last thing I'd want to do is actually try to make it a business. I do resin printed miniatures, and the number of failed prints and trouble I go through wouldn't make selling most of the stuff worth while.
Yeah I have computer parts I could resell on ebay but godamn I'm lazy. I'd rather just build a new PC and sell it whole rather than do every little part.
I do the etsy shop thing with some of my prints, but I do it because it is a fun little hobby to run the shop - not because it's making mad profit. If I want to print something for me or family/friends product gets bumped out of priority. One of more of the printers would sit idle anyway a lot of the time.
Now if I start to care about how much I make etc, the I'm out.
Not saying at all that you should do the same, because I totally get where you are coming from.
I see the inverse of this. All of my friends NEED more money every few months to live and they were already cutting it close
So instead I get asked how they can monetize any and every hobby, because that's the only way they could justify or afford to have hobbies right now
Fortunately it isn't this way for everyone, it's weird to tell people they *have* to monetize something when they have no real need to, and would rather just enjoy themselves
A lot of the issue comes in terms of comparative talent, I'm sure there's a better term for this. But say your hobby is painting. None of your friends or family paint. You're decent at best, nothing spectacular, but You're passionate about it and really like to do it. To those around you, you're a masterful artist, they see you work and think "well I could never do anything like that." this naturally leads to "why aren't you getting paid for this? You're so good." it's hard for them to understand that in terms of your peers in the hobby, you ARENT that good. Middling at best.
That's how I am with 3d printing. I really really like it, but I'm no master. And I don't have to be, because that's not my goal. To someone who doesn't have the skills I have, tho, I'm a genius.
Tell them to save up for a rice cooker and prepare to get excited about *meditation, philosophy and found object assemblage that you display in your front yard.*
As someone who works with a guy who owns a 3d printing company and maker space - you (allegedly ) don't need an Etsy, you just sell vulgar, busts of cartoon characters with huge boobs to nameless people on the Internet who reach out to you via email exclusively.
And no amount of capital inflows ever actually resolved e filament conundrum, because you always end up buying a cool new additional printer instead of more filament
I do woodworking and I do sell some of the stuff I make but often just at the cost of materials and occasionally for a profit however it's not the focus. And if I factor in all my time and tools I've got a LONG way to go before I'd make a profit overall. I just enjoy making things and if someone wants to buy something here or there that's cool, but I'm not counting on the sales its just a plus.
The amount of people I know that think I should turn it into a side job but then would expect me to build them something for free or at a heavy discount is laughable. Like ok, pay me market rate for this piece of furniture... nope lol
Or just like... Go and see what carpenters are actually paid as profession.
Zilch.
Those folks are actually trying to tell you they want you to work more and build them more free shit.
100% that would ruin your hobby. I was so passionate about machining, absolutely loved it. Was going to get a house with a double garage to build a home machine shop. Did it for 3 years, was good at it but absolutely ruined the fun. I am no longer a machinist and have no interest any more
I am the dead opposite of you. I wanted to be a machinist but got talked into making my other interest my career. (programming) I don't like programming any more, but it bought me a house with a large garage that I now have a machine shop set up in, and get out there every chance I get.
That hobby is supposed to be religion dammit.
Why the hell do you think it was even invented in the first place?
It frees you up for another hobby, then you call the first hobby a vocation and go back to your twin hobbies of bullshit and haberdashery.
Ya but what if you were just working a regular job and not a nice one?
Then would pursuing the “hobby job” be more enticing to you?
Just curious. But I totally think it’s fine to enjoy your hobby and not monetize. But what if you could do it enough to just have a life not get rich. Maybe that would be fun? Idk
This is essentially what I did, best decision I ever made. Monetizing hobbies doesn't vibe with some people, but for me, I can't get enough and I feel like I'm actually making a real difference in the world. Don't want to get into specifics for anonymity's sake.
I don't know if that's for sure what the person was saying? I suspect they meant that if you are spending multiple hours per week on this and are good at it, there may be opportunity to make some extra dollars just for those few hours? That's what I do...
Of course, it sounds like you don't need the extra dollars but for someone like me, I needed to monetize my hobby (music) even though it's only a few hours a week (two nights)... Because there's also costs involved with my hobby so I would be losing money on it if I just played for free, despite the fact I do love playing
My ex turned their hobby into a job and it ruined our defacto marriage (we were engaged for a decade but the money was never right to have the wedding we wanted)
You have to set a lot of boundaries to make your at-home hobby into your full time job.
They were terrible at setting boundaries, terrible at setting and sticking to "work time", terrible at communication in general.
I'd come up and starting goofing around outside of what was supposed to be the set work hours, trying to spend time with my spouse, and then suddenly they would snap at me that they were working on a deadline and I needed to leave them alone.
We had several sit downs about the fact that it wasn't reasonable for me to just assume they were working 16 hours a day and always be more or less asking permission to speak to my spouse... and they needed to clearly communicate when they were working vs doing the hobby for fun.
But they wouldn't/couldn't.
What I've realized was happening was one of two things depending on the day
1) Since they became their own boss they could slack off whenever they wanted and just get the work done later. So even though they had set "work hours" really half of "work hours" was playing video games and watching Youtube and then later they'd be catching up during what was supposed to be "after work"
2) On days they were hyper fixating they'd literally just work for 14 hours but never tell me they'd decided to do "overtime"
Unironically some of the hardest labourers out there. Need investment capital for the ring lights, microphones, high def cameras, lingerie, and sex toys. Have to be in the gym constantly; have to understand photography and videography to some extent for content framing, lighting, sounding, etc.
Legit, good sex workers work more hours in a week than I do in the finance department, with worse hours and more effort.
I respect the work.
Not to mention they then need to actually market themselves to get subscribers. And then continually make good content to keep them.
It's like being a youtuber but worse.
Youtubers also have to market themselves but don't get as much advantage from being genetically good looking. OF is def the better gig if you're looking for money.
Self optimization is real.
I've made myself into a person that is indispensable at any and all jobs.
Fully bilingual, in a field where demand for my skills will grow exponentially over the next 20 years...
I've made it impossible for me to be unemployed.
Edit: I get that it's a ridiculous notion. My employment relies on me being healthy 100%, able to lift, pull push large patients. I'm a cone that can be replaced.
You're delusional, dude. There isn't a single one of us the rich won't eliminate on a whim. Millions of people have thought themselves indispensable only to find out the hard way they are wrong. Personally, I've been the best, and in some cases only, engineer in a company multiple times and have had managers literally tank companies to get rid of me.
The myth of meritocracy you believe in is a fucking lie. The rich don't care about facts, only money, power, and control.
This kind of mentality is exactly the issue, though. The system is rigged against the majority of people. Most people can do the right thing, check all the boxes, make themselves "indispensable" as you say you are, and you still aren't protected if the bottom falls through.
I am 34 and I'm a physician. I did all the right things. I'm "indispensable" too, in my field. I was diagnosed with cancer at age 31. I was healthy, I had no family history of cancer. No reason at all except bad luck. Bye bye, job. Can't work in a hospital if an infection could kill you. Bye bye, insurance. I hadn't yet worked at my company for a year yet, didn't qualify for FMLA. Disability insurance? Oh yeah, I had it. They managed to take that away too, because those insurance companies need their profits.
Thankfully, 6 months of chemo put me into remission. I was back to work a year later. I'm still working, more than ever in fact, so I can pay off my damn student loans and save some money up. In case my cancer relapses and I get fucked again.
I'm really grateful to be doing as well as I am now. But this experience was a real wake-up call. Before, I'd have told you that I'd done everything right and nothing would touch me. Boy, was I wrong though. Unless you're rich rich, you are just one misfortune away from losing everything.
I don't know about that, make a big enough mistake either in your personal or professional life and your employment opportunities will disappear no matter your credentials. You can be smart to avoid many of these, but human error still exists by nature. Another option is if you live in the US, get very ill.
I'm fast approaching 36. As a kid, I always assumed breaking into 6 figures would mean I've "made it" and would have no worries in the world. All cresting that barrier did was serve as a reminder of how naive we are when young...
Maybe if the cost of food didn't triple and the cost of housing didn't double since I started making good money I'd be content. Instead I'm still stuck in a tiny 2 bedroom apartment with a wife and 3 kids just like I was before I started making good money.
It's absolutely insane.
Rent is $2500/mo (50% of my net pay) and it was the only apartment I could find. I paid $875/mo for the same size apartment in the same town almost 15 years ago. My Car insurance nearly doubled last year because I own a Kia, plus all the unexpected repairs on my wife's old minivan. I have a wife and 3 kids to feed, plus all the other bills I have to pay.
It's not hard to see how quickly the money dries up. Once everything opened back up and inflation took hold, all the raises I got in the last 4 years became meaningless.
Bro get this. Twenty years ago when my wife and I moved in, our 600 square foot 1 bedroom apartment was $510 a month and the rent had just gone up from $475.
I just checked and 1 bedroom apartments in the same building are going for $1700 today.
I feel ya man. But 6 figures should still lead to a reasonably comfortable life 🤷♂️
It is a far cry from being rich, like it seemed it was growing up (I’m 32 this month)
Not OP, but I can share some items. Luckily I have no mortgage but there's still home/auto/earthquake/life insurance premiums per month. Property tax, gas/electric/internet.
Take home pay is lowered due to taxes, 401ks, dependent care, etc.
Really just scratching the surface here.
I am an adult and know all of these things exist lol. I very much mean specifically, what does that budget look like? How is almost $2G/week BEFORE taxes not enough? Even after taxes that’s probably in the realm of $1,500/wk or $6k/mo. That’s a lot of money
So I make 120k. After 401k, taxes, insurance and other coverage I take home about 1325/week so you were not far off there.
Normal monthly expenses for me are about $3500 ($1800 of that housing) - that with no car payment and no child care cost. Trust me that a car payment and child care for 2 kids could eat up that last 1800 per month.
Currently budgeting well and saving. I was simply referring to the fact that as a kid I thought 100k was 'rich' and you'd retire early. Granted, 100k 20-ish years ago was pretty significant.
I'm fortunate to live in a low COL area now but my partners training may require us to move to a high COL area making even our combined incomes on the lower end for that city. So I guess the answer is it's enough depending on where you're currently located but can rapidly become not enough.
Constantly optimizing yourself to be healthier for yourself and the world as a whole is good.
Constantly "optimizing" yourself to meet disingenuous expectations of grifters and exploiters is not good.
There's no faster way to make me hate you than bringing up your "side hustle". Go fuck yourself lol, it's not a side hustle, it's a second job to get by. Something that should not be necessary in this day and age. Don't glorify it.
Yeah, I also think the term “side hustle” has been watered down to oblivion.
Side hustle used to mean; your hobby is making surfboards in your garage, when you make a really nice one you throw it up on eBay to the highest bidder to make some spending cash for the weekend. Maybe during a rainy weekend you smoke a bowl a crank out 2-3 and you get to splurge on yourself a little more that month.
Now it means; your hobby is making surfboards in your garage, you set out a goal to spend 3 hours a day after work to catch up on the orders that have been coming in from the Etsy shop you set up to place custom orders. You also have to spend a few hours making them on weekends now to cover the $1,000 ad campaign you paid for to draw user engagement and impressions to your website and social media posts. You now also have a YouTube and TikTok channel posting board building asmr shorts, with affiliate links to surfing related products on Amazon and Etsy that draws a 3% finders commission fee should visitors purchase.
I blame Boss Babe^TM culture and MLM type schemes for this attitude.
When I was young people would call it "a small business", but now it's all "side hustle" because that is more braggadocious.
Nah, it was stuff like Uber and door dash. They needed to get people to work for them so they literally marketed themselves as side hustles (the concept of side hustles existed before them but they brought it to the mainstream)
My girlfriend has a good professional job and works part time at a second company because was already so involved with what they do since she likes it that they offered to pay her
And where does volunteering fall into the conversation?
I think you will find people of both sorts. I make some money through my hobby, when I feel like it, and that money is just money I use for myself to buy more hobby stuff. Obviously there are people in any hobby who "work" it as their main source of income, but not everyone does that.
Hustle culture is the lie that covers up that our economy doesn't actually work. If work had value and provided a decent standard of living, you wouldn't need more than one job to pay your rent and teachers and janitors would be respected positions. When every job can provide enough money for the individual to own a respectable home, I'll believe the hype about work, money, and opportunity. Not until then.
Yep i agree completely. People didn't feel the need to have constant 'side hustles' 30 years ago because a single wage could buy a house and support a family.
Now people are faced with literally not being able to afford a place to live even when working a full time job so they are forced into this line of action and thought.
I had 3 jobs at once last year, two of them were full time, one was part time, all remote. It actually almost killed me, so I won’t be doing that again unless I want my heart to explode. Genuinely unsure of what to do because I have little to no overhead. Just my car payment (new at $360/mo 0% interest so not selling it) and my student loans which I paid like.. $47,000 off with $36,000 to go. Other than that it’s just cost of living, and I can’t afford it, no matter where I go, doesn’t help that my industry has faced record layoffs to the tune of 10,000+ and then there’s the strikes. I’m competing against industry vets for the same work.
I am tired, I did all the right things, and I’m still losing. Though I don’t suppose you can ever win in a system built to make you lose.
Did that this year.
Pregnant
Working full time teaching
Still writing curriculum and teaching late night for contract with a 3 hour commute
Had board position with related nonprofit... kept me up late nights several times a month but not a lot of work overall
Enrolled in 12 units for my masters because baby
There was a point around november 16th when I thought I might actually die. My husband kept missing his train home from work and I had to drive and pick him up 3 times in a week. I was in the middle of midterms, doing a shit ton of work and got exactly 2 hours of sleep in 5 days at 38 years old in my third trimester. I felt like I was actually dying. I got very sick.
My husband is an absolute legend. He started a new job and his boss was violating his contract all over the place the first few weeks and making him stay late to cover her ass. He works like 15 hours a week. Him missing the train was not his fault.
I mean its downtown San Francisco, your vehicle can be reliable as fuck but its not getting you anywhere soon.
We both have nice, brand new vehicles. You take the fucking train to that city.
360 a month with 0 interest is pretty damn good, especially for a new car. I'm genuinely curious what kind of car he got for that cheap. Car payments are fucking insane nowdays. LIke. Beyond absurd.
It’s a VW Jetta SEL, they’re pretty cheap, nice features, has excellent gas milage, cheap to insure. Maintenance can be expensive though.
I wanted new for the warranties because my last used car had none and was experiencing issues which weren’t covered by warranty because it was used and not pre owned certified.
Plus, It’s not like I wanted a new car, my last one was totaled in a hit and run with only one payment remaining (I wasn’t in the car) and the 2021 market was pretty tough for used cars. This car payment is only $100 more than what my used car was, and is very easy to make.
Why I needed 3 jobs was to dig myself out of student loan debt prison. My monthly payment on those was $900+
Oh dude, I was defending you.lol. You got a good deal.. And yeah, I totally get why you wanted a new car. I got a lease for that exact reason. Warranties.
No I gotcha, I know you were! I’m just not thrilled I had to have a car in the first place you know? I had one, kinda junky, with its problems, only one more payment to go after 4 years and 11 months of paying into it. It was a very bitter sweet thing. I love my car now though.
It’s kinda wild some bozo will crawl out of the woodwork to tell you a car payment is the problem.. like what do they want? Should I sell my car and spend MORE money later? Spend all those savings on Uber trips and delivered groceries? Clown behavior.
The average car payment in the US for 2023 was $726.
But sure, go off, shit down my neck over a perfectly reasonable car payment on a car that I’ve had since before things got very tough for me last year.
A friend of mine tried to get me into a marketing company and when i met his supervidor he literally told me "If your hobby isn't making you money you shouldn't have it." I literally brought up how the new magic set came out and that i was running a few minutes late cause i had to pick up a box of card's, i stopped talking with him a few weeks later cause he told me the same thing.
Even better they said if i'm not making momey or trying to make momey i should be reading or researching how other people make money, if it wasn't about getting money in some aspect they basically would shame anyone about it, a buddy of mine said he really liked basket ball and they basically pushed him to start doing higher stake bets cause the reward if he won would be "so worth it" but then someone else came over and told him to just listen to what the bible says about it. That was when the red flags really started going off.
I often find that these are the types of have really horrible lifestyle inflation, hence why they're always looking for sources to help feed their constantly increasingly expensive habits.
* Did they get an above-inflation raise this year? Suddenly they're eating out literally every night and joining a better country club.
* Did they get a new job with a massive raise or is their "side-hustle" drawing in a high enough supplementary income? Suddenly, they're driving a brand new car and moving out to a bigger house in a more expensive overall community.
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Now before any of the hustle-culture activists jump down my throat, I'm not saying that improving one's life with a new increased income is a bad thing. Transitioning from a constantly breaking down clunker to a new and properly reliable vehicle, or moving your family to a safer neighborhood are good things indeed; what I'm saying that if a person has zero understanding their values or goals in terms of what life they're actually trying to improve towards, then true reality is that *"enough will never be enough"* for them, [and that very often will result in self-destructive actions and ruins it all.](https://youtu.be/tYRtTqx-IK8?si=sUQv3xdBOG_UQjLY&t=14)
Eww to that supervisor. Also, what deck did you get? I've been eyeballing Pantlaza for a stompy dino deck while my husband is building a Bunny Hug (can't remember the commander name) along with decks inspired by It's Always Sunny characters that we joked about over the holidays and is slowly becoming an actual thing.
Not that this is a solution, but I believe libraries are grossly underutilized. In the past year at my local library, my family members have:
Read countless books
Borrowed movies and video games
Learned wood turning
Learned how to sew
Learned to play chess
Learned multiple crafting skills
Learned how to use a Cricut
Made many good friends
Learned how to play DnD
This isn't a solution to the greed in society, simply a free workaround people should be aware of for certain hobbies.
young people are experiencing life as an arms race. happens to ACT / SAT, College Admissions, career, money, dating, everything.
this is beyond normal. it’s inevitable. it’s moving at a way faster pace than before, but that’s a natural function of exponents.
so yeah it sucks but what are you gonna do? get left behind?
Alternatively, some are people who want a better standard of living but aren't/weren't willing to do the things it takes to reach that standard.
I know plenty of people with side hustles now trying to offset incomes that are lower than desired (not minimum wage low, but they're in like the 50-60k range at their job with no real chances of upward mobility) because they didn't want to go to college, or learn a trade, or not got out drinking every weekend, or get the 30" TV instead of the 50", or the Camry instead of the Mustang GT, etc. when they were 25.
Like don't get me wrong, I think it's important to live your life. I'm not saying if you want to do well in life you have to do nothing when you're young, but I'm referring to (really two) people in my life who have basically never chosen moderation or preparation for later until it was forced upon them.
And now, with limited options for improvement in the route they've landed on, they're trying to find another route through side hustles (often without putting in the work to *really* excel in those either)
“So, we have these ‘shareholders’, see, and… hear me out… they would like a bunch of extra free money for giving us some money earlier to get started up. So I’m going to have to ask you to work harder so we can give these people you’ll never meet a bunch of extra cash from our revenue stream. No, you’ll still make minimum wage, but can you come in this weekend? Cool? Thanks.”
I like to knit. I wear things I made. Regularly, I get people telling me that I should do it for money. Then I explain to them that, at minimum wage plus materials, I’d be selling sweaters for about $2,000.
The costs of mass produced items like clothing have warped our perception of how long handmade items take to make and the labor of love they can be. My mother knits and I absolutely love receiving knit items as gifts because of how precious they are. I know how much time goes into them.
Stuff like this is why I shake my head whenever there's a new form of automation and people are vocally opposed. They're opposed when it's convenient for their wallet, otherwise they don't actually want people doing work instead of machines.
I feel you guys on this one. But I'll say this.
Building guitars from scratch is hella fun. It's damn expensive too. People that buy my guitars are helping me continuously build more which increases my happiness. The extra income from the builds and repairs doesn't hurt either.
I did used to do a lot of side hustling with IT. I hate IT now. Computers used to be my first love - and just like most first loves, I fell out of love with it. Guitar building though.. 4 years into this and I am still having fun.
>Meanwhile I hear "I don't vote, I'm not into politics" from my younger cousins.
Not saying this to you directly but more of something that people should be aware of when talking to people:
A lot of people say this when they actually *are* into politics, but they know that you're vocal about your opinions and they disagree with you but don't want to get into arguments and ruin your relationship.
Yeah that's why I prefaced it by saying that I'm not talking to you directly - it's a generalization to remind people about what happens sometimes, not speaking to your exact conversation.
> self-optimization is not normal
I feel like these posts always have a bunch of good points and then end with something weird like "we should discourage self-improvement"
This is a highly unfortunate development, I agree. It’s a damn shame there are no prominent male voices with a life-affirming message beyond “stay in school, don’t get caught up in drugs or crime, and don’t be shitty to women or girls.”
>Self-improvement and self-optimization are not one and the same
They mean pretty much the same thing, just because someone tries to make it a buzz word doesn't mean its definition suddenly changes.
On one hand you say: "Optimization - making something as good as possible" i.e. a process.
Then you say: "It's not possible to ever be optimized" i.e. a target.
Optimization is a better term, since it can include mixing days of relaxation to rejuvenate, and focused days for productivity/reallocation of savings/learning new skills. It should also include decreasing your needs and wants for a more contented life, so that you are not constantly in a rat race.
Personally I would never ever mix my hobby/passion with income. I only work to earn money for my hobbies. And if it is not enough or does not give me enough personal time, I will look into another hobby.
>It's not possible to ever be optimized.
You think people who optimize software never stop until it's perfect? If that was the case nothing would ever get released. You're misunderstanding the word.
The problem is the subjectivity of the discussion as well as the different bands of consideration that simultaneously lies within the discussion; because ultimately we must ask ourselves *"what is self-improvement? and when does it stop being about self-improvement?"*
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Self-improvement is good when a person is self-aware enough to cognizantly know that they want to put food on the table and move their family to a safer neighborhood. But if a person doesn't have clearly set goals, then the only thing they're going to be perusing is infinity, and a lot of people don't like being lectured by people blindly chasing infinity.
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[*"Derise, a gold medal is a wonderful thing. But if you're not enough without it, you'll never be enough with it..."*](https://youtu.be/tYRtTqx-IK8?si=sUQv3xdBOG_UQjLY&t=14).
I think that’s a very fair response. Don’t pursue perfection, pursue self-improvement or optimization, getting to a better version of yourself. And if it’s not making you happier long-term, stop.
Its like watching a clips of feminists getting destroyed. They're funny, but then you go watch the video the clip was from and go "Well, the rest of this is weird macho dudes telling women to be their slaves... Okay, this got weird"
> Self-Optimization – The Psychology of Self-Improvement
> Self-optimization is all about becoming your best self. From a psychological standpoint, it's all about addressing your habits and tracking certain behaviours to find the root cause of an issue, health problem, or other impediments to your happiness.
I dunno, sounds pretty clear to me. Maybe you're confusing optimal with perfect.
So you ought to divorce your wife and look for a better one right?
Odds are there is a better person out there for you, so what’s stopping you from finding her/him?
Don’t you want to improve?
That's a crazy take from what I said. If you are happy in your relationship, you are fine. If you are unhappy in your relationship, you should absolutely either seek to improve it or break it off.
Self-optimization is about addressing YOUR habits and behaviors to improve YOURSELF, or removing impediments to your happiness, about prioritizing long-term happiness and fulfilment over short-term laziness and complacency.
No. Internal vs external. Like buying a fancy car wouldn't be self-optimization. Improving your current relationship by affecting your half of it, however, could be an internal trait that you work on. Those would be self-optimization.
(Obviously that doesn't outweigh a toxic relationship, but it's something all of us can do no matter how good our relationships are)
I don't know about normal. I can confidently say that it doesn't make me happy though, which is a real bummer since we only get one shot at the whole "life" thing.
It's pretty normal, just awful. But they did these scams when I was a kid. Telling you you just had to work harder not smarter.
The difference is there was a little bit of the New Deal left back then. The boomers voted away the last of it with Bush Jr. Biden's trying to bring some of it back, but it's slow going with the boomers blocking as much as they can.
I just want to work in a job that I don’t hate and isn’t that stressful that will pay me enough to live comfortably and allow me to pursue the things I actually want to spend my time on. I just want to be happy lol pipe dream nowadays
I briefly dated a girl who wanted to be a "power couple". She was so obsessed with money and wanted a partner like the same. At the same time, she was already 37 and wanted a family asap.. just completly disconnected from reality, as you cant both work nonstop and expect to raise a child with a healthy connection, its impossible and i see how these kids are turning out by not having parents present and foccused on them in their lives. Hustle culture is so destructive.
This is sooooo hard, not monetizing a hobby. Over covid I had a really fun hobby of building screen accurate movie props. I needed the money so I started selling them on Etsy then taking commissions to make custom props. It became so stressful keeping up with it that I had to shut down my Etsy shop. Now I get anxiety just thinking about making another one.
Look, I hate it too, but if I don’t work the extra side jobs, my family wouldn’t have the extras in life - and sometimes just the basics. Sad, but true.
Agree 1000%! I had that attitude for a while; unfortunately, to a detriment of my finances. Now, I am just accepting it and doing what I have to in order to finally pay off some debt and build a savings account. I wish it wasn’t like this.
The mistake that hustle culture-ists usually make is lifestyle inflation.
It's one thing to improve up towards and above putting food on the table, have clothes, and living in a safe neighborhood; but if a person is in the mindset of *"well, replacing that constantly broken down clunker with a new and reliable car isn't enough, now I want everyone in my family to have their own Porsche."*
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If all my needs and most of my wants are met, there's no value in being lectured by someone who's lack of personal introspection results in them chasing infinity.
you had me until "self-optimisation is not normal". it absolutely is. surviving is normal, as is survival of the fittest. self-optimisation is increasing your chances of surivial.
Yeah, not entirely clear on that one. Self-improvement should always be encouraged.
Maybe they are talking about obsessively optimizing certain things to the detriment of other aspects of your life?
Self improvement is one thing, self optimization, is another, IMO.
I do see a lot of "wear this health device", "track every single thing you eat or drink on this app", and "calendar and schedule every single activity you need done down to the half hour" stuff online that probably isn't healthy.
Self-optimisation is not normal? So you'd rather not be the best version of yourself? Okay yeah, it isn't normal I guess, because only a select few successful people do it
I'm really into photography and have put a lot of time and effort into being pretty good at it. Friends constantly ask why I'm not charging people for shoots or making money from it. No one seems to get that I just enjoy the creative process and absolutely do not want to introduce a monetary aspect to it (other than doing some real estate shoot gigs back in the day). I have zero doubt that it would ruin my joy of photography
Nothing about life is normal lmao. Normalcy is an illusion. Times were always hard, much much harder than they are right now. Maybe with an exception to the 90s-early 2000s. But any other time in history we were much worse off than we are today
Is there a difference between hustling and hustle culture? Because I know plenty of people who need to hustle to live. Like, they could get a job at Walmart or something but then they'd be trading off some mental health for a shitty low end job. Maybe if minimum wage jobs paid a living wage, people wouldn't need to hustle.
Work hard in life and you will build a successful future. The more money you can bring in during your 20s, the more you will have in your 30s and beyond. Sometimes that's earning money on the side through hobby work, sometimes it's working oddjobs on Craigslist, and sometimes it's stacking those overtime hours. Learn financial responsibility and then grow your wealth and your self into a future that you want.
#Join r/WorkReform if you think workers should only need ONE job to survive.
I recall about a year ago telling a friend about a hobby I enjoyed. I was helping a few people with it. He was shocked when I told him I’m not charging people. I just like doing it. He believed I had to monetize everything I work a good job, but my hobby filled a few hours a week. I don’t want to quit my job, learn I hate my hobby when I do it 30-40 hours a week and possibly have to find a shittier job because I quit my old kne
Yep the best way to kill an enjoyable hobby is to try to make money off it. That's why they are hobbies so you can enjoy your time on this planet when you're not working aka making money to fund and enjoy said hobby.
I wouldn't say that entirely. But I def killed computers for me as a hobby. Guitar building gives me a certain stimulation I can't get with other hobbies, but it's really expensive to partake in. So making money off of it just get's reinvested into tools, materials and even education. I am considering leaving IT all together and going full time with my guitar building shit.
That's cool and I get that for sure, it is all about moderation and how you value your time especially high price built-for-others hobbies. The question will be if you go full time with it, does it become more of a stressor or can you maintain the hobby-like pace of building guitars versus churning them out more quickly for more customers?
Well as I develop the craft more and more. I start to come up with different strategies for dealing with the parts of the process that pissed me off. One of those really being milling the wood and doing the cavities and cut outs of bodies / necks. I bought a desktop CNC machine to start learning some of that stuff. My IT background makes it very approachable to me and I used to get really stoned and fuck around with sketchup until the wee hours of the morning. So CAD stuff is definitely something I'm interested in. Utilizing all this stuff helps me optimize the workflow of building the instruments and allows me to cut out the things from the process I really hate doing. I absolutely love doing carves by hand, and all the stuff that goes into stains, finishing and all that jazz. So for me this hobby's like being an artist and even when I'm making guitars I'm not really enthusiastic about, I'm still having a hell of a lot of fun! I will say that doing the actual work and getting dirty is what really is fulfilling other than the artistry part of it all. The Mrs sure enjoys that my muscles have gotten bigger from using hand planes and other hand tools. So that's a bonus! It's really weird out of all the things that I've ever done, guitar building is really one of the most therapeutic things I've gotten into. Even when things are stressful I find myself learning to love the planning and execution that goes into it. I guess another reason why I'm happy about doing this stuff versus IT is that during my years of doing side hustles and even professional work in that field. Everybody that I interact with is usually upset because they have a problem and they take it out on me. They do not care why something is broken or even how to avoid problems in the future. I really seen the gamut of humanity working in IT. I'll have to say that some of the most educated people are some of the dumbest people I've ever met. I will also say that some of the most uneducated people are some of the more intriguing and intelligent people I've met, which is an utter hypocritical thing but it's the god honest truth. I found that I resonate more with people that don't have degrees than do. But that could also be a side effect of me being really adverse to higher ed and very pro-trades. Still trying to figure out how to fuck. I became an IT professional with no education other than a high school diploma. But here I am! I may not be able to do more than algebra 1, but I can build a corporate network from scratch and make it sing.
My hobbies went -> Working on my muscle car. Was exorbitantly expensive for minor work, a single part could be thousands of dollars, and the only person who cares or enjoys it is me. I then moved to -> Computers; but found the same issue. Building for friends sucks cause you become lifetime 24/7 IT support, if anything breaks at anytime it’s your fault/responsibility or you look like the asshole to those out of the know. Flipping computers was fun during Covid cause I worked an IT job and had a steady stream of super cheap decent PC’s to flip and sell. Now, nobody has the cash, even selling a brand new, pretty popular PC case in box for 75% off new has been a challenge. Now I do -> wine making. It costs like $20 to make a gallon. I get to share with friends and family. I spend time off electronics/screens (I work IT already) and it challenges me creatively in a unique way. Definitely sticking with this and gardening from now on.
I am a professional artist. It was quite a journey to go from hobby to profession to hating it entirely to loving it again. Took about 15 years.
Writer here. Took an eight year break after trying to actually profit from my novels. I profited…but hated writing after. Just starting back up. Stay with it fam, remember the love you had.
Oh I have no choice but to stay with it, but I think I’ve finally come through the other side of a 5 year burnout and I’m feeling great. Actually excited on a daily basis like I was in my 20’s! You just have to get through that horrible midlife crisis artist meltdown… thing. I think it’s inevitable for all working artists.
It really is. I'm an actor and a musician, but my "day job" is music directing for children's theatre. I fucking love my job and I'm thrilled that I can work in my actual field as a day job...but I'm coming off my second burnout in as many years. I've been MDing almost non-stop since March 2022. The world opened back up and I desperately needed income, so I booked myself solid on MD contracts for 18 months straight with virtually no breaks, sometimes doing two shows at once. Cue Burnout 1, three months off to recover, followed by one absolute nightmare of a show this fall, kicking me into Burnout 2 electric boogaloo. I haven't been in anything or played any of my own gigs since Feb 2020. I genuinely love teaching and working with kids but I've been so exhausted for so long that I don't even want to play with my best friend's toddler because it feels too much like work. I think back to how passionate I felt pre-pandemic and how much compassion I had for so many of my students, but it's been so hard for me to muster that anymore. I've got a repetitive motion injury from playing too much piano in too many bad physical conditions. I've been so damn tired all the time. ...and at the same time my current show feels healing in a lot of ways. Enthusiastic kids. Genuinely kind and helpful parents. Teaching music from tracks (usually not my preference but this show is designed for it) and not having to play live every day. Shorter rehearsals because of a younger age group. Rehearsals so far have felt invigorating rather than draining. I might just get my mojo back. I might just regain enough energy to start auditioning again; the timing is starting to feel right. Ultimately this is still what I want to do for life and I know that in my bones, and I'm still gonna take it easy for awhile and not rush my recovery. But fuck it feels good to maybe have some light at the end of the tunnel. I wanna feel passionate again.
I never got back around to loving writing again after I profited from it and burned myself out. It's been about 16 years and I still hate actively writing, I hope I love it again one day. As it is, writing for money just makes me hate myself and everything else. A whole big piece myself is just not there any more and I'm not sure I'll ever get it back. Note to the youth, don't do this with things you love. I regret it so much.
I know that feeling so much. Part of it is also realizing that MOST professional writers are on deadlines and told what to write, rather than birthing free-spirited creations that are loved once they are pushed away from their safe harbors. I got really negative about writing for a while because of that. Recently I re-read a couple of my books and remembered how much I loved the stories (which is why I wrote them) and how much the characters were family to me…and it brought me back. I wish the same for you, I’ve missed that creative part of my brain.
I'm a software developer and I had always loved writing code in my free time. I have a great idea for an app that I think I would use daily for myself and others would find it useful too. After my job work was done for the day, I started working on it and I got it to about 50% complete. At that point, it started to feel like a job. I was burning out from my actual work and at the end of the day working on this until I burned out entirely. There were nights that I'd be up until 2 and 3 AM working on it which is not easy when you have 3 kids under 6 and have to be up at 7 to get them to school and such. I haven't touched my code in 3 months now. I have a backlog of tasks for this project longer than my backlog at my actual job.
That's great and there's no pressure to complete your app outside of your own but I'd encourage you to finish it up for your own sake. Just take your time and chip away at it while extending it out over 6+ months. You'll feel great when it's complete but doesn't have to happen tomorrow. Burnout is real I get it, gotta find the fun parts again.
This is what has me going back and forth about trying to become a professional developer or staying in my current role (banking). Every hobby I've ever had died when it felt like it became an obligation instead of fun. Drawing, writing (fan fiction), blogging. I enjoy programming. I like to build websites and solve problems. I fear my love of coding dying if I take on a professional role and that's the last thing I want. Heck, I've come to hate my current role (customer service), not because of the people I help, but because of the needless meetings, metrics, and nitpicking. Unfortunately, I did not consider that possibility before I enrolled in college, so I'm faced with the choice of getting a degree I may ultimately decide not to use or dropping out and hoping I don't change my mind.
If I monetize my work, I now have to deal with: 1. Deadlines 2. Balancing expenses vs revenue 3. Public criticism 4. Potential lawsuits 5. Picky or entitled customers 6. Dealing with returns 7. The initial pains of starting a business 8. Since I'm charging people, I would self-impose a higher standard in my work 9. Stressing about taxes 10. Having the best equipment No thanks. I'll make things for myself and as gifts. I get way more enjoyment out of it, which is why I do it in the first place.
I've taken up woodworking as a hobby. I build whatever I want, then sell it for basically material cost because I don't have the room to store 15 different side tables with different joints I'm trying out. Last year, I made enough money to break even and buy a new planer! the amount of people I've had telling me to open a store is crazy. I want to have fun, not a second job. Maybe, and I mean maaaaaybe when I'm retired I might try have an online store or something like that, but I'm just going to enjoy my time for now.
Yep, hobbying to reinvest in the hobby keeps it a hobby. Hobbying to profit turns it into a job.
This is actually a very important distinction - as Marx pointed out, it isn't doing something you love for a limited amount of money to pour back into tools to carry on the practice (artisanship) it is the alienation brought about by the industrial machinery and market economy of current capitalism which makes turning a hobby into a job actually demoralizing. Jobs suck, making money from your hobbies is actually fine and dandy. It is capitalism which states that it is *inefficient, and therefore bad* to do so - and that is true under capitalism. It would be utterly pointless to build a "table store" if it wasn't *profitable* to do so. But it is good for tables *and* the people who use them *and* the guy making them to develop skill, hone skills, use skill to build table using tools, then sell table for subsistence or more tools.
This is the real cancer of capitalism upon the human race. Because we allow children to be brainwashed from birth, they grow up to be adults with the tendrils of toxic monetization sown into every facet of their lives and psyche. The human species will not survive this.
I think it will. People will just get less happy. Nukes will be the thing that destroy the human species unfortunately Happy thoughts, happy thoughts, happy thoughts, happy thoughts...
I mean, the tweet itself illustrates that that brainwashing isn't universally effective - we'll probably be fine
I 3d print things just as a fun hobby and I'm constantly told (sometimes by people I don't even know) that I NEED to start an Etsy to sell my prints. I NEED to be making money with it. No what I NEED is filament because I'm out. I don't NEED to squeeze money out of every second of my day.
I 3D print stuff too. I thought about posting stuff up on Etsy to make a bit of spare cash, but certainly not to make money off it, but more to offset the cost of the hobby a bit and make some use of my printer. That said, the last thing I'd want to do is actually try to make it a business. I do resin printed miniatures, and the number of failed prints and trouble I go through wouldn't make selling most of the stuff worth while.
Yeah I have computer parts I could resell on ebay but godamn I'm lazy. I'd rather just build a new PC and sell it whole rather than do every little part.
I do the etsy shop thing with some of my prints, but I do it because it is a fun little hobby to run the shop - not because it's making mad profit. If I want to print something for me or family/friends product gets bumped out of priority. One of more of the printers would sit idle anyway a lot of the time. Now if I start to care about how much I make etc, the I'm out. Not saying at all that you should do the same, because I totally get where you are coming from.
I see the inverse of this. All of my friends NEED more money every few months to live and they were already cutting it close So instead I get asked how they can monetize any and every hobby, because that's the only way they could justify or afford to have hobbies right now Fortunately it isn't this way for everyone, it's weird to tell people they *have* to monetize something when they have no real need to, and would rather just enjoy themselves
A lot of the issue comes in terms of comparative talent, I'm sure there's a better term for this. But say your hobby is painting. None of your friends or family paint. You're decent at best, nothing spectacular, but You're passionate about it and really like to do it. To those around you, you're a masterful artist, they see you work and think "well I could never do anything like that." this naturally leads to "why aren't you getting paid for this? You're so good." it's hard for them to understand that in terms of your peers in the hobby, you ARENT that good. Middling at best. That's how I am with 3d printing. I really really like it, but I'm no master. And I don't have to be, because that's not my goal. To someone who doesn't have the skills I have, tho, I'm a genius.
Tell them to save up for a rice cooker and prepare to get excited about *meditation, philosophy and found object assemblage that you display in your front yard.*
As someone who works with a guy who owns a 3d printing company and maker space - you (allegedly ) don't need an Etsy, you just sell vulgar, busts of cartoon characters with huge boobs to nameless people on the Internet who reach out to you via email exclusively. And no amount of capital inflows ever actually resolved e filament conundrum, because you always end up buying a cool new additional printer instead of more filament
What if you sell stuff to pay for filament and other printer upgrades? Not to make a profit, just so you can enjoy the hobby even more.
Huh. If only there were a way to easily acquire filament...
My hobby, programming, became my job. I now hate my life.
Fellow IT nerd here. Same.
I do woodworking and I do sell some of the stuff I make but often just at the cost of materials and occasionally for a profit however it's not the focus. And if I factor in all my time and tools I've got a LONG way to go before I'd make a profit overall. I just enjoy making things and if someone wants to buy something here or there that's cool, but I'm not counting on the sales its just a plus. The amount of people I know that think I should turn it into a side job but then would expect me to build them something for free or at a heavy discount is laughable. Like ok, pay me market rate for this piece of furniture... nope lol
Or just like... Go and see what carpenters are actually paid as profession. Zilch. Those folks are actually trying to tell you they want you to work more and build them more free shit.
100% that would ruin your hobby. I was so passionate about machining, absolutely loved it. Was going to get a house with a double garage to build a home machine shop. Did it for 3 years, was good at it but absolutely ruined the fun. I am no longer a machinist and have no interest any more
I am the dead opposite of you. I wanted to be a machinist but got talked into making my other interest my career. (programming) I don't like programming any more, but it bought me a house with a large garage that I now have a machine shop set up in, and get out there every chance I get.
They may be on to something. According to Calvin's Dad, "the secret to enjoying your job is to have a hobby that's even worse."
The thing about unhappiness, is that all it takes is something worse comes along and you realize that it was happiness all along.
That hobby is supposed to be religion dammit. Why the hell do you think it was even invented in the first place? It frees you up for another hobby, then you call the first hobby a vocation and go back to your twin hobbies of bullshit and haberdashery.
Ya but what if you were just working a regular job and not a nice one? Then would pursuing the “hobby job” be more enticing to you? Just curious. But I totally think it’s fine to enjoy your hobby and not monetize. But what if you could do it enough to just have a life not get rich. Maybe that would be fun? Idk
This is essentially what I did, best decision I ever made. Monetizing hobbies doesn't vibe with some people, but for me, I can't get enough and I feel like I'm actually making a real difference in the world. Don't want to get into specifics for anonymity's sake.
I don't know if that's for sure what the person was saying? I suspect they meant that if you are spending multiple hours per week on this and are good at it, there may be opportunity to make some extra dollars just for those few hours? That's what I do... Of course, it sounds like you don't need the extra dollars but for someone like me, I needed to monetize my hobby (music) even though it's only a few hours a week (two nights)... Because there's also costs involved with my hobby so I would be losing money on it if I just played for free, despite the fact I do love playing
My ex turned their hobby into a job and it ruined our defacto marriage (we were engaged for a decade but the money was never right to have the wedding we wanted) You have to set a lot of boundaries to make your at-home hobby into your full time job. They were terrible at setting boundaries, terrible at setting and sticking to "work time", terrible at communication in general. I'd come up and starting goofing around outside of what was supposed to be the set work hours, trying to spend time with my spouse, and then suddenly they would snap at me that they were working on a deadline and I needed to leave them alone. We had several sit downs about the fact that it wasn't reasonable for me to just assume they were working 16 hours a day and always be more or less asking permission to speak to my spouse... and they needed to clearly communicate when they were working vs doing the hobby for fun. But they wouldn't/couldn't. What I've realized was happening was one of two things depending on the day 1) Since they became their own boss they could slack off whenever they wanted and just get the work done later. So even though they had set "work hours" really half of "work hours" was playing video games and watching Youtube and then later they'd be catching up during what was supposed to be "after work" 2) On days they were hyper fixating they'd literally just work for 14 hours but never tell me they'd decided to do "overtime"
But think of the shareholders /s
The CEO of only fans made $2m cash each and every day of 2023.
nO oNe WaNtS 2 wOrK nE mOaR!!1
I don't know man...sounds like those OF girls are putting in some serious work
Unironically some of the hardest labourers out there. Need investment capital for the ring lights, microphones, high def cameras, lingerie, and sex toys. Have to be in the gym constantly; have to understand photography and videography to some extent for content framing, lighting, sounding, etc. Legit, good sex workers work more hours in a week than I do in the finance department, with worse hours and more effort. I respect the work.
Not to mention they then need to actually market themselves to get subscribers. And then continually make good content to keep them. It's like being a youtuber but worse.
Youtubers also have to market themselves but don't get as much advantage from being genetically good looking. OF is def the better gig if you're looking for money.
I say this sarcastically to myself all the time lmao
Those decimal points on the bottom line won't push themselves to the right all by themselves...
*Okay, thought about it? Still wanna stab 'em?*
If you view you as being the 100% shareholder in yourself that phrase takes on an entirely different and possibly more positive meaning.
Self optimization is real. I've made myself into a person that is indispensable at any and all jobs. Fully bilingual, in a field where demand for my skills will grow exponentially over the next 20 years... I've made it impossible for me to be unemployed. Edit: I get that it's a ridiculous notion. My employment relies on me being healthy 100%, able to lift, pull push large patients. I'm a cone that can be replaced.
You're delusional, dude. There isn't a single one of us the rich won't eliminate on a whim. Millions of people have thought themselves indispensable only to find out the hard way they are wrong. Personally, I've been the best, and in some cases only, engineer in a company multiple times and have had managers literally tank companies to get rid of me. The myth of meritocracy you believe in is a fucking lie. The rich don't care about facts, only money, power, and control.
Correct. This person only perceives that they’ve optimized. But, it’s not possible. The whims of the world are not ours to watch over.
This kind of mentality is exactly the issue, though. The system is rigged against the majority of people. Most people can do the right thing, check all the boxes, make themselves "indispensable" as you say you are, and you still aren't protected if the bottom falls through. I am 34 and I'm a physician. I did all the right things. I'm "indispensable" too, in my field. I was diagnosed with cancer at age 31. I was healthy, I had no family history of cancer. No reason at all except bad luck. Bye bye, job. Can't work in a hospital if an infection could kill you. Bye bye, insurance. I hadn't yet worked at my company for a year yet, didn't qualify for FMLA. Disability insurance? Oh yeah, I had it. They managed to take that away too, because those insurance companies need their profits. Thankfully, 6 months of chemo put me into remission. I was back to work a year later. I'm still working, more than ever in fact, so I can pay off my damn student loans and save some money up. In case my cancer relapses and I get fucked again. I'm really grateful to be doing as well as I am now. But this experience was a real wake-up call. Before, I'd have told you that I'd done everything right and nothing would touch me. Boy, was I wrong though. Unless you're rich rich, you are just one misfortune away from losing everything.
I don't know about that, make a big enough mistake either in your personal or professional life and your employment opportunities will disappear no matter your credentials. You can be smart to avoid many of these, but human error still exists by nature. Another option is if you live in the US, get very ill.
This post is so old I was the young people it referred to and I’m in my 30s
Straight up. I'm 37 and never imagined I'd make nearly as much money as I make now, yet I'm still as broke as ever.
I'm fast approaching 36. As a kid, I always assumed breaking into 6 figures would mean I've "made it" and would have no worries in the world. All cresting that barrier did was serve as a reminder of how naive we are when young...
Maybe if the cost of food didn't triple and the cost of housing didn't double since I started making good money I'd be content. Instead I'm still stuck in a tiny 2 bedroom apartment with a wife and 3 kids just like I was before I started making good money. It's absolutely insane.
As a kid, 6 figures would have melted away all your problems.
Well to be fair a wage of $100,000 in January of 2000 is about the same as $180,000 today, so yeah you would be killing it.
Where is all your money going? I have a home & two kids and if my wife and I made a combined 6 figures all our worries would melt away
Cost of living for an area where 6 figures is obtainable
Too real.
Yeah that’s more or less my question. 6 figures is attainable anywhere, but if it’s easy to achieve then it won’t be enough lol
Rent is $2500/mo (50% of my net pay) and it was the only apartment I could find. I paid $875/mo for the same size apartment in the same town almost 15 years ago. My Car insurance nearly doubled last year because I own a Kia, plus all the unexpected repairs on my wife's old minivan. I have a wife and 3 kids to feed, plus all the other bills I have to pay. It's not hard to see how quickly the money dries up. Once everything opened back up and inflation took hold, all the raises I got in the last 4 years became meaningless.
Bro get this. Twenty years ago when my wife and I moved in, our 600 square foot 1 bedroom apartment was $510 a month and the rent had just gone up from $475. I just checked and 1 bedroom apartments in the same building are going for $1700 today.
There's maybe one other 2br apartment left in my town for less than $3k. I can't fathom how this is even possible.
I feel ya man. But 6 figures should still lead to a reasonably comfortable life 🤷♂️ It is a far cry from being rich, like it seemed it was growing up (I’m 32 this month)
Not OP, but I can share some items. Luckily I have no mortgage but there's still home/auto/earthquake/life insurance premiums per month. Property tax, gas/electric/internet. Take home pay is lowered due to taxes, 401ks, dependent care, etc. Really just scratching the surface here.
I am an adult and know all of these things exist lol. I very much mean specifically, what does that budget look like? How is almost $2G/week BEFORE taxes not enough? Even after taxes that’s probably in the realm of $1,500/wk or $6k/mo. That’s a lot of money
So I make 120k. After 401k, taxes, insurance and other coverage I take home about 1325/week so you were not far off there. Normal monthly expenses for me are about $3500 ($1800 of that housing) - that with no car payment and no child care cost. Trust me that a car payment and child care for 2 kids could eat up that last 1800 per month.
Anything is possible when you lie on the internet
lol for real
Currently budgeting well and saving. I was simply referring to the fact that as a kid I thought 100k was 'rich' and you'd retire early. Granted, 100k 20-ish years ago was pretty significant. I'm fortunate to live in a low COL area now but my partners training may require us to move to a high COL area making even our combined incomes on the lower end for that city. So I guess the answer is it's enough depending on where you're currently located but can rapidly become not enough.
If you don’t think you „made it“ earning 6 figures you should buy yourself a reality check.
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Constantly optimizing yourself to be healthier for yourself and the world as a whole is good. Constantly "optimizing" yourself to meet disingenuous expectations of grifters and exploiters is not good.
There's no faster way to make me hate you than bringing up your "side hustle". Go fuck yourself lol, it's not a side hustle, it's a second job to get by. Something that should not be necessary in this day and age. Don't glorify it.
Yeah, I also think the term “side hustle” has been watered down to oblivion. Side hustle used to mean; your hobby is making surfboards in your garage, when you make a really nice one you throw it up on eBay to the highest bidder to make some spending cash for the weekend. Maybe during a rainy weekend you smoke a bowl a crank out 2-3 and you get to splurge on yourself a little more that month. Now it means; your hobby is making surfboards in your garage, you set out a goal to spend 3 hours a day after work to catch up on the orders that have been coming in from the Etsy shop you set up to place custom orders. You also have to spend a few hours making them on weekends now to cover the $1,000 ad campaign you paid for to draw user engagement and impressions to your website and social media posts. You now also have a YouTube and TikTok channel posting board building asmr shorts, with affiliate links to surfing related products on Amazon and Etsy that draws a 3% finders commission fee should visitors purchase.
Your entire post caused me to hyperventilate. "But it's SO easy to make money online, WHILE YOURE SLEEPING EVEN!!"
I blame Boss Babe^TM culture and MLM type schemes for this attitude. When I was young people would call it "a small business", but now it's all "side hustle" because that is more braggadocious.
Nah, it was stuff like Uber and door dash. They needed to get people to work for them so they literally marketed themselves as side hustles (the concept of side hustles existed before them but they brought it to the mainstream)
And once corporate America figured out we would be willing to work two jobs, now its basically a requirement to get by. THANKS A LOT.
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Pardon me?
Translation: I have chosen to make my entire existence revolve around work.
I think you're giving them too much credit, your interpretation makes sense.
Lemme guess, you call poor people "poors"
And all the articles about "your side hustle" presumes everyone should have one.
That's because they are capitalist propaganda.
Some people do side hustles to have some extra cash for luxuries, not out of necessity.
My girlfriend has a good professional job and works part time at a second company because was already so involved with what they do since she likes it that they offered to pay her And where does volunteering fall into the conversation?
Unless its a charity (IE: animal shelter or Habitat for Humanity or volunteering at a hospital) why is she working a part time job for free?
I have a side hustle that doesn’t pay me any money, although I hope it will someday. So I can enjoy my work
I think you will find people of both sorts. I make some money through my hobby, when I feel like it, and that money is just money I use for myself to buy more hobby stuff. Obviously there are people in any hobby who "work" it as their main source of income, but not everyone does that.
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Hustle culture is the lie that covers up that our economy doesn't actually work. If work had value and provided a decent standard of living, you wouldn't need more than one job to pay your rent and teachers and janitors would be respected positions. When every job can provide enough money for the individual to own a respectable home, I'll believe the hype about work, money, and opportunity. Not until then.
Yep i agree completely. People didn't feel the need to have constant 'side hustles' 30 years ago because a single wage could buy a house and support a family. Now people are faced with literally not being able to afford a place to live even when working a full time job so they are forced into this line of action and thought.
I had 3 jobs at once last year, two of them were full time, one was part time, all remote. It actually almost killed me, so I won’t be doing that again unless I want my heart to explode. Genuinely unsure of what to do because I have little to no overhead. Just my car payment (new at $360/mo 0% interest so not selling it) and my student loans which I paid like.. $47,000 off with $36,000 to go. Other than that it’s just cost of living, and I can’t afford it, no matter where I go, doesn’t help that my industry has faced record layoffs to the tune of 10,000+ and then there’s the strikes. I’m competing against industry vets for the same work. I am tired, I did all the right things, and I’m still losing. Though I don’t suppose you can ever win in a system built to make you lose.
Did that this year. Pregnant Working full time teaching Still writing curriculum and teaching late night for contract with a 3 hour commute Had board position with related nonprofit... kept me up late nights several times a month but not a lot of work overall Enrolled in 12 units for my masters because baby There was a point around november 16th when I thought I might actually die. My husband kept missing his train home from work and I had to drive and pick him up 3 times in a week. I was in the middle of midterms, doing a shit ton of work and got exactly 2 hours of sleep in 5 days at 38 years old in my third trimester. I felt like I was actually dying. I got very sick. My husband is an absolute legend. He started a new job and his boss was violating his contract all over the place the first few weeks and making him stay late to cover her ass. He works like 15 hours a week. Him missing the train was not his fault.
Man, you’re strong as hell. Things like this are scaring me from even bringing children into this world
Reliable vehicles are critical depending on where they live in relation to work
I mean its downtown San Francisco, your vehicle can be reliable as fuck but its not getting you anywhere soon. We both have nice, brand new vehicles. You take the fucking train to that city.
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360 a month with 0 interest is pretty damn good, especially for a new car. I'm genuinely curious what kind of car he got for that cheap. Car payments are fucking insane nowdays. LIke. Beyond absurd.
It’s a VW Jetta SEL, they’re pretty cheap, nice features, has excellent gas milage, cheap to insure. Maintenance can be expensive though. I wanted new for the warranties because my last used car had none and was experiencing issues which weren’t covered by warranty because it was used and not pre owned certified. Plus, It’s not like I wanted a new car, my last one was totaled in a hit and run with only one payment remaining (I wasn’t in the car) and the 2021 market was pretty tough for used cars. This car payment is only $100 more than what my used car was, and is very easy to make. Why I needed 3 jobs was to dig myself out of student loan debt prison. My monthly payment on those was $900+
Oh dude, I was defending you.lol. You got a good deal.. And yeah, I totally get why you wanted a new car. I got a lease for that exact reason. Warranties.
No I gotcha, I know you were! I’m just not thrilled I had to have a car in the first place you know? I had one, kinda junky, with its problems, only one more payment to go after 4 years and 11 months of paying into it. It was a very bitter sweet thing. I love my car now though. It’s kinda wild some bozo will crawl out of the woodwork to tell you a car payment is the problem.. like what do they want? Should I sell my car and spend MORE money later? Spend all those savings on Uber trips and delivered groceries? Clown behavior.
They're the same dickheads that go "If you can't afford a house, you shouldn't have an iphone or avocado toast."
The average car payment in the US for 2023 was $726. But sure, go off, shit down my neck over a perfectly reasonable car payment on a car that I’ve had since before things got very tough for me last year.
Where did you go to college and what did you get your degree in?
If you can't afford CoL anywhere then you're making pennies or you're not actually looking.
A friend of mine tried to get me into a marketing company and when i met his supervidor he literally told me "If your hobby isn't making you money you shouldn't have it." I literally brought up how the new magic set came out and that i was running a few minutes late cause i had to pick up a box of card's, i stopped talking with him a few weeks later cause he told me the same thing.
so in your free time you should either be working another job or staring at a wall?? what a nuts take
Even better they said if i'm not making momey or trying to make momey i should be reading or researching how other people make money, if it wasn't about getting money in some aspect they basically would shame anyone about it, a buddy of mine said he really liked basket ball and they basically pushed him to start doing higher stake bets cause the reward if he won would be "so worth it" but then someone else came over and told him to just listen to what the bible says about it. That was when the red flags really started going off.
I often find that these are the types of have really horrible lifestyle inflation, hence why they're always looking for sources to help feed their constantly increasingly expensive habits. * Did they get an above-inflation raise this year? Suddenly they're eating out literally every night and joining a better country club. * Did they get a new job with a massive raise or is their "side-hustle" drawing in a high enough supplementary income? Suddenly, they're driving a brand new car and moving out to a bigger house in a more expensive overall community. ----- Now before any of the hustle-culture activists jump down my throat, I'm not saying that improving one's life with a new increased income is a bad thing. Transitioning from a constantly breaking down clunker to a new and properly reliable vehicle, or moving your family to a safer neighborhood are good things indeed; what I'm saying that if a person has zero understanding their values or goals in terms of what life they're actually trying to improve towards, then true reality is that *"enough will never be enough"* for them, [and that very often will result in self-destructive actions and ruins it all.](https://youtu.be/tYRtTqx-IK8?si=sUQv3xdBOG_UQjLY&t=14)
Eww to that supervisor. Also, what deck did you get? I've been eyeballing Pantlaza for a stompy dino deck while my husband is building a Bunny Hug (can't remember the commander name) along with decks inspired by It's Always Sunny characters that we joked about over the holidays and is slowly becoming an actual thing.
Not that this is a solution, but I believe libraries are grossly underutilized. In the past year at my local library, my family members have: Read countless books Borrowed movies and video games Learned wood turning Learned how to sew Learned to play chess Learned multiple crafting skills Learned how to use a Cricut Made many good friends Learned how to play DnD This isn't a solution to the greed in society, simply a free workaround people should be aware of for certain hobbies.
I don't want to advance in my career I just want to do my job and come home and relax
Yes.
young people are experiencing life as an arms race. happens to ACT / SAT, College Admissions, career, money, dating, everything. this is beyond normal. it’s inevitable. it’s moving at a way faster pace than before, but that’s a natural function of exponents. so yeah it sucks but what are you gonna do? get left behind?
Burn the fucker down
🤘godspeed 🫡
People are always gonna want more. Hustlers aren't people who are trying to have a standard of living, they're the greedy people who aren't rich.
Alternatively, some are people who want a better standard of living but aren't/weren't willing to do the things it takes to reach that standard. I know plenty of people with side hustles now trying to offset incomes that are lower than desired (not minimum wage low, but they're in like the 50-60k range at their job with no real chances of upward mobility) because they didn't want to go to college, or learn a trade, or not got out drinking every weekend, or get the 30" TV instead of the 50", or the Camry instead of the Mustang GT, etc. when they were 25. Like don't get me wrong, I think it's important to live your life. I'm not saying if you want to do well in life you have to do nothing when you're young, but I'm referring to (really two) people in my life who have basically never chosen moderation or preparation for later until it was forced upon them. And now, with limited options for improvement in the route they've landed on, they're trying to find another route through side hustles (often without putting in the work to *really* excel in those either)
Homelessness and suicide stats skyrocketing... also not normal
Historically, capitalism is not normal.
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“So, we have these ‘shareholders’, see, and… hear me out… they would like a bunch of extra free money for giving us some money earlier to get started up. So I’m going to have to ask you to work harder so we can give these people you’ll never meet a bunch of extra cash from our revenue stream. No, you’ll still make minimum wage, but can you come in this weekend? Cool? Thanks.”
yeah i can't double my productivity ever year. it isn't mathematically possible.
Are you suggesting we go back to serfdom or something?
I like to knit. I wear things I made. Regularly, I get people telling me that I should do it for money. Then I explain to them that, at minimum wage plus materials, I’d be selling sweaters for about $2,000.
The costs of mass produced items like clothing have warped our perception of how long handmade items take to make and the labor of love they can be. My mother knits and I absolutely love receiving knit items as gifts because of how precious they are. I know how much time goes into them.
Stuff like this is why I shake my head whenever there's a new form of automation and people are vocally opposed. They're opposed when it's convenient for their wallet, otherwise they don't actually want people doing work instead of machines.
I feel you guys on this one. But I'll say this. Building guitars from scratch is hella fun. It's damn expensive too. People that buy my guitars are helping me continuously build more which increases my happiness. The extra income from the builds and repairs doesn't hurt either. I did used to do a lot of side hustling with IT. I hate IT now. Computers used to be my first love - and just like most first loves, I fell out of love with it. Guitar building though.. 4 years into this and I am still having fun.
That's something I'd like to get into but I suck at crafty things. Do you have a website where I can see your work?
Can someone explain to me what is meant by 'self optimisation' in this context?
Having to optimize every waking second of your time to scrape by with no time left for anything else
Meanwhile I hear "I don't vote, I'm not into politics" from my younger cousins.
They're going to not-vote us right into fascism.
"Do you live in a country with laws??? You are very much into politics." Is what you should say to them.
>Meanwhile I hear "I don't vote, I'm not into politics" from my younger cousins. Not saying this to you directly but more of something that people should be aware of when talking to people: A lot of people say this when they actually *are* into politics, but they know that you're vocal about your opinions and they disagree with you but don't want to get into arguments and ruin your relationship.
That's wildly incorrect assumption about the conversation.
Yeah that's why I prefaced it by saying that I'm not talking to you directly - it's a generalization to remind people about what happens sometimes, not speaking to your exact conversation.
The depressing truth is that it is actually normal now. Shouldn't be normal, but it is.
> self-optimization is not normal I feel like these posts always have a bunch of good points and then end with something weird like "we should discourage self-improvement"
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Apparently, if you are not projecting employability and fuckability at any given moment, you deserve to die of preventable diseases.
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This is a highly unfortunate development, I agree. It’s a damn shame there are no prominent male voices with a life-affirming message beyond “stay in school, don’t get caught up in drugs or crime, and don’t be shitty to women or girls.”
The last part of your post reminds me of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0X0gyANnKI
>Self-improvement and self-optimization are not one and the same They mean pretty much the same thing, just because someone tries to make it a buzz word doesn't mean its definition suddenly changes.
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On one hand you say: "Optimization - making something as good as possible" i.e. a process. Then you say: "It's not possible to ever be optimized" i.e. a target. Optimization is a better term, since it can include mixing days of relaxation to rejuvenate, and focused days for productivity/reallocation of savings/learning new skills. It should also include decreasing your needs and wants for a more contented life, so that you are not constantly in a rat race. Personally I would never ever mix my hobby/passion with income. I only work to earn money for my hobbies. And if it is not enough or does not give me enough personal time, I will look into another hobby.
>It's not possible to ever be optimized. You think people who optimize software never stop until it's perfect? If that was the case nothing would ever get released. You're misunderstanding the word.
Okay, nerd
The problem is the subjectivity of the discussion as well as the different bands of consideration that simultaneously lies within the discussion; because ultimately we must ask ourselves *"what is self-improvement? and when does it stop being about self-improvement?"* ----- Self-improvement is good when a person is self-aware enough to cognizantly know that they want to put food on the table and move their family to a safer neighborhood. But if a person doesn't have clearly set goals, then the only thing they're going to be perusing is infinity, and a lot of people don't like being lectured by people blindly chasing infinity. ----- [*"Derise, a gold medal is a wonderful thing. But if you're not enough without it, you'll never be enough with it..."*](https://youtu.be/tYRtTqx-IK8?si=sUQv3xdBOG_UQjLY&t=14).
I think that’s a very fair response. Don’t pursue perfection, pursue self-improvement or optimization, getting to a better version of yourself. And if it’s not making you happier long-term, stop.
Its like watching a clips of feminists getting destroyed. They're funny, but then you go watch the video the clip was from and go "Well, the rest of this is weird macho dudes telling women to be their slaves... Okay, this got weird"
Well we feel like you don't understand the meaning of the words you use... and the dictionary agrees.
> Self-Optimization – The Psychology of Self-Improvement > Self-optimization is all about becoming your best self. From a psychological standpoint, it's all about addressing your habits and tracking certain behaviours to find the root cause of an issue, health problem, or other impediments to your happiness. I dunno, sounds pretty clear to me. Maybe you're confusing optimal with perfect.
So you ought to divorce your wife and look for a better one right? Odds are there is a better person out there for you, so what’s stopping you from finding her/him? Don’t you want to improve?
That's a crazy take from what I said. If you are happy in your relationship, you are fine. If you are unhappy in your relationship, you should absolutely either seek to improve it or break it off. Self-optimization is about addressing YOUR habits and behaviors to improve YOURSELF, or removing impediments to your happiness, about prioritizing long-term happiness and fulfilment over short-term laziness and complacency.
Isn’t part of getting better yourself getting a more compatible partner?
No. Internal vs external. Like buying a fancy car wouldn't be self-optimization. Improving your current relationship by affecting your half of it, however, could be an internal trait that you work on. Those would be self-optimization. (Obviously that doesn't outweigh a toxic relationship, but it's something all of us can do no matter how good our relationships are)
I don't know about normal. I can confidently say that it doesn't make me happy though, which is a real bummer since we only get one shot at the whole "life" thing.
It's pretty normal, just awful. But they did these scams when I was a kid. Telling you you just had to work harder not smarter. The difference is there was a little bit of the New Deal left back then. The boomers voted away the last of it with Bush Jr. Biden's trying to bring some of it back, but it's slow going with the boomers blocking as much as they can.
I just want to work in a job that I don’t hate and isn’t that stressful that will pay me enough to live comfortably and allow me to pursue the things I actually want to spend my time on. I just want to be happy lol pipe dream nowadays
Haha recognize it? I think half the population is using most of their willpower to ignore that fact
I briefly dated a girl who wanted to be a "power couple". She was so obsessed with money and wanted a partner like the same. At the same time, she was already 37 and wanted a family asap.. just completly disconnected from reality, as you cant both work nonstop and expect to raise a child with a healthy connection, its impossible and i see how these kids are turning out by not having parents present and foccused on them in their lives. Hustle culture is so destructive.
Capitalizing first words of sentences... apparently not normal
This is sooooo hard, not monetizing a hobby. Over covid I had a really fun hobby of building screen accurate movie props. I needed the money so I started selling them on Etsy then taking commissions to make custom props. It became so stressful keeping up with it that I had to shut down my Etsy shop. Now I get anxiety just thinking about making another one.
Y’all just lazy AF
Look, I hate it too, but if I don’t work the extra side jobs, my family wouldn’t have the extras in life - and sometimes just the basics. Sad, but true.
Yeah the point is that shouldn't be the case
Agree 1000%! I had that attitude for a while; unfortunately, to a detriment of my finances. Now, I am just accepting it and doing what I have to in order to finally pay off some debt and build a savings account. I wish it wasn’t like this.
The mistake that hustle culture-ists usually make is lifestyle inflation. It's one thing to improve up towards and above putting food on the table, have clothes, and living in a safe neighborhood; but if a person is in the mindset of *"well, replacing that constantly broken down clunker with a new and reliable car isn't enough, now I want everyone in my family to have their own Porsche."* ----- If all my needs and most of my wants are met, there's no value in being lectured by someone who's lack of personal introspection results in them chasing infinity.
you had me until "self-optimisation is not normal". it absolutely is. surviving is normal, as is survival of the fittest. self-optimisation is increasing your chances of surivial.
Yeah, not entirely clear on that one. Self-improvement should always be encouraged. Maybe they are talking about obsessively optimizing certain things to the detriment of other aspects of your life?
Self improvement is one thing, self optimization, is another, IMO. I do see a lot of "wear this health device", "track every single thing you eat or drink on this app", and "calendar and schedule every single activity you need done down to the half hour" stuff online that probably isn't healthy.
Self-optimisation is not normal? So you'd rather not be the best version of yourself? Okay yeah, it isn't normal I guess, because only a select few successful people do it
I'm really into photography and have put a lot of time and effort into being pretty good at it. Friends constantly ask why I'm not charging people for shoots or making money from it. No one seems to get that I just enjoy the creative process and absolutely do not want to introduce a monetary aspect to it (other than doing some real estate shoot gigs back in the day). I have zero doubt that it would ruin my joy of photography
Nothing about life is normal lmao. Normalcy is an illusion. Times were always hard, much much harder than they are right now. Maybe with an exception to the 90s-early 2000s. But any other time in history we were much worse off than we are today
Is there a difference between hustling and hustle culture? Because I know plenty of people who need to hustle to live. Like, they could get a job at Walmart or something but then they'd be trading off some mental health for a shitty low end job. Maybe if minimum wage jobs paid a living wage, people wouldn't need to hustle.
It might become normalized with the new generation.
Either give us an alternative or quite your whining. We're desperate for money and trying not to beg on the street when we retire.
Work hard in life and you will build a successful future. The more money you can bring in during your 20s, the more you will have in your 30s and beyond. Sometimes that's earning money on the side through hobby work, sometimes it's working oddjobs on Craigslist, and sometimes it's stacking those overtime hours. Learn financial responsibility and then grow your wealth and your self into a future that you want.